This time in the Magick Kitchen, we're talking about womb witchery with Angelica Merritt. I'm Leandra Witchwood, and I'm Elyse Welles. And welcome to the Magick Kitchen Podcast, where we talk about magick, kitchen witchcraft, herbs, and everything in between.

The Magick Kitchen Podcast is funded and supported by WitchwoodTeahouse.com, offering a variety of hand-blended loose leaf teas as well as loose herbs for all of your ritual spellwork, wellness, and everyday enjoyment needs. If you would like to support this podcast while sipping a cup of tea, head over to WitchwoodTeahouse.com and find the magick that's in store for you.

Elyse Welles:
Angelica Merritt is a clinical herbalist, full-spectrum pregnancy loss doula, postpartum caretaker, and author of the book Womb Witch: Herbal Magic for Reproductive Health. Her work aims to assist others in awakening the wild within through herbalism, storytelling, nature immersion, and practices that invoke intuitive guidance.

Elyse Welles:
Thank you for being here, Angelica. So much of your work, so much of your path is so resonant with what we speak on all the time in the Magick Kitchen.

And one thing I wanted to get out here right away is what you did in your book that’s very unique—completely unique to anything I’ve found in resources about understanding the cycles of having a uterus and a womb—is that you don’t gender the language. You leave it open. People who are non-binary, agender, transgender—people with wombs—can learn from this book and not be triggered in any way. And I think that’s really important in the times we live in, to make sure people feel included. And I just—I just love that about your book.

Angelica Merritt:
Oh great. I’m so glad to hear that! Yeah, it was really, really important for me to be inclusive when I wrote this book. I went in with a lot of intentionality that any person who picked up this book that had a uterus—or used to have a uterus—would be able to tap into the spiritual and scientific insights that I share, to implement them not only in their own lives, but in the lives of people in their communities as well.

It’s a book that is also for people who don’t have wombs. You know, I really wanted this information to be used by any person, because every single person in the world that we’ve ever known has started their human journey in the womb space. And so I really think it’s our responsibility to be aware of this space, and to know what’s happening there—in both a scientific and spiritual way.

Because, you know, as we’re aware, they are making laws and changing laws when it comes to our reproductive health. There’s a lot of misinformation out there. And I think that we are going to do better as a society if we are informed and educated in this way.

Elyse Welles:
Yeah, I agree. Actually, my husband was asking me about this book. He’s like, “I think I’m going to read it too.” He’s like, “I don’t really understand your cycle.” And I was like, “I don’t either! I’ll be honest!”

Anybody who’s listening who’s like, “What would I glean from reading a whole book about my cycle?” Dude. So much. Like, I have to read it again because—well, I’ll also say this: I didn’t have sex ed.

I was in high school in the Middle East. I lived in the Middle East where it’s totally illegal to even—well, we had to actually—we got new textbooks in, I went to a British high school, and we had to glue the pages...

Elyse Welles:
...we had to glue the pages together in a biology textbook. We had to glue the pages together that had reproductive organs. Even the page that was about—it had two giraffes, not even human! Just two giraffes. And it talked about how their reproductive systems are different than ours. We had to glue those together.

I remember that one so vividly.

And then I met my husband when I was 19. And truthfully, I just hadn’t had a deep enough relationship before that where I had a partner I could talk about my cycle with.

Right? And he told me a lot of stuff I didn’t even know because he had the normal American sex ed program. He lived in Maryland, so it’s a pretty blue state. And anyway—I still don’t know things! Literally like six months ago, I learned that a cervix is in there all the time. I thought a cervix grew in when you gave birth! I thought it was like a womb space that expands.

I literally just didn’t know. So anyone who’s like, “Oh, I know everything”—you don’t. And even if you think you need to know too much and it feels scary—this book is very, very approachable and helpful. It’s a resource I’ll continuously go back to.

Angelica Merritt:
Oh, I love to hear that. That’s so great. And you’re right.

Like, I myself practiced the fertility awareness method, which is a natural birth control method where you track the position of your cervix, your cervical fluid, and your basal body temperature—which is your waking temperature.

You use all of those to know where you’re at in your cycle. And I thought I knew my body. I knew when I was ovulating, when I could get pregnant, when I couldn’t.

And then I found myself in a situation where I realized I didn’t know everything about my body. I was diagnosed with endometriosis, and I experienced an ectopic pregnancy. I didn’t even know what that was. I was dumbfounded.

I had studied the body as an herbalist, I had a good grasp on fertility awareness. But I realized quickly—I didn’t know it all. And a lot of people around me didn’t know it at all, in any sense.

I went to public school in a very small town in Ohio. They essentially threw some tampons and pads at us and said, “You’re going to start bleeding one day.” That was it.

I didn’t know there were phases of the menstrual cycle. I didn’t know cervical fluid was natural. I’ve talked to people who are post-menopausal—way past their reproductive years—and they didn’t know cervical fluid was an indicator of vaginal health.

Which is mind-boggling. How many people never know? They go their entire lives without understanding the magick within our womb space—and what it’s trying to communicate to us, cyclically.

Leandra Witchwood:
Right. And I think the system has worked very cleverly and diligently to disconnect us from that.

I was reading an account from the 1700s—really far back—and they talked about a young girl getting her menses. And it was called a curse. Like, they literally convinced young girls that it was a curse. That you did something wrong. So now you bleed, and you’ll bleed for the rest...

Leandra Witchwood:
...of your life type thing. And I was like, wow, that is such an astonishing take on how we got here — with our mindset around reproductive rights and even, you know, perimenopause and menopausal symptoms and what that actually means.

Like, I just learned that you’re not actually considered menopausal until you stop bleeding for 6 to 12 months — or sometimes 17! Like, there’s a range.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah.

Leandra Witchwood:
And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t even know that!” Nobody teaches you that. Nobody talks about it. Even perimenopause.

For some reason — I think it’s because I don’t really use social media that much — when I do, it’s just to check on friends. And a lot of those people are older than me. So my Instagram and Facebook ads are usually for perimenopausal women.

That’s how I learned about it! Through stupid Meta ads. I’m like, “Excuse me... we go through what?” And then there’s menopause after?

People don’t realize. My friend just told me this on the retreat I was on in Costa Rica:
She said perimenopause can start at age 40.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. Or earlier — in your 30s.

Leandra Witchwood:
In your 30s?

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. It can start earlier, just depending on what’s going on hormonally in your body. But on average it starts around 40 — like 40 to 42.

Leandra Witchwood:
So there's nothing really—yeah. Nobody talks about it.

And it goes back to the suffering of the marginalized, right? Women are marginalized. People who are raised with uteruses have to figure out how to navigate the world with them, and we’re told, “Just take a pill and get on with it.”
“Oh, she’s on her period — she’s not trustworthy.”
They tie everything to our cycle.

Either we’re too incompetent because we’re bleeding, or we’re supposed to be more competent and just ignore the bleeding.

Angelica Merritt:
Right.

Leandra Witchwood:
You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Angelica Merritt:
Exactly.

Leandra Witchwood:
And I just think there’s so much more power in the bleed.

Like, something that maybe triggers people — I’ve learned to enjoy menstrual cramps.

Angelica Merritt:
Ooh, I was just writing about this! I can’t wait to hear what you’re thinking.

Leandra Witchwood:
Okay. Because I enjoy... I enjoy feeling what’s going on in there. I enjoy feeling the physical connection to what has to happen.

When I was in high school in the British system, we were doing our GCSE practice exams. They were timed. We weren’t allowed to go to the bathroom. They were 120 minutes, and I would get these cramps so bad that I needed to stand up to deal with them.

And we weren’t allowed to stand up. So I had to sit. I had no choice in that instance but to talk to my uterus.

I remember literally standing in the hall waiting to go into the exam and being like:

“Uterus — this is so important for us. We need these grades to be good. We need to get the practice exams right to get the real exams right. We need to get into the college we want.”

I just brought her into the conversation. I was 14. I didn’t know who else to talk to — the humans around me weren’t helping.

So we started there. And I remember one time getting such a bad cramp in class and I w—

Leandra Witchwood:
...was like, “Please don’t betray me.” And she stopped.

Angelica Merritt:
Wow.

Leandra Witchwood:
She stopped. And we’re still like that. To the point where, when I get cramps, I can just be like, “All right. We’re going to sit down. We’re going to let this happen.” And then when I need to get back up again — we need to keep moving — she’ll do it.

She’ll get it all out of her system and help me forward. And I think we forget that the body is ready to communicate with the mind and spirit. It is that bridge to do it.

Angelica Merritt:
Absolutely. Yeah. There’s so much power in the mind-body connection.

I recently had an endometriosis episode where I was in the thick of this insane pain — like what you’re speaking about. And I was speaking with my uterus, my womb space. I was just like, “Why is this happening? What is this communicating to me?”

And it really was one of the most spiritual, profound moments I’ve had in the past — maybe two years of my life. It was the most pain I’ve been in in a long time. And it was telling me that I needed to be here now.

It wasn’t going away until I fully settled into the moment that I needed to.

I was in the car, driving down the highway, and I was just looking out at the night sky. And I realized — I hadn’t looked at the night sky in months. And I love the sky. I think it’s so important to go outside and look up. Just stare at the ethers and all that surrounds us. It’s such a potent, divine thing to witness.

And I realized I hadn’t done that in such a long time. It wasn’t something I was doing. And I really felt like my body was communicating to me: Be here.
Look. Look at what is surrounding you. Look at the magick that is all around and is always here at your disposal. You can always access this. It gets dark every night. You have this magick to tap into.

Leandra Witchwood:
So yeah, I love that. And I hope that people really hear us sharing these things and take a moment to consider what their body is communicating to them.

Because like you’re saying — these are signals. They’re messages. And there might be a lot of things within the message, like “Why is this inflammation happening?” But there are other things to be found within those layers as well.

And in connection with cramping and the idea that the body is shedding — I like to use that as a magickal time to shed what I don’t need. Energetically, physically. Like, send it out with all the things that need to be shed. So every time I would feel a cramp, I just sit there and lean into it — Let it go now.

Now, sometimes it becomes too much. But I think that’s part of the programming, too. We’re like, “Oh, I just have to get through this. I just have to get through this,” instead of just leaning into it like:
Okay, what can I get rid of in this moment? My body is actively removing stuff — so what do I need to get rid of? And how do I do that?

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. It’s such an opportunity for us.

Elyse Welles:
So I have a personal conundrum that I hope listeners will see themselves in. I’ve been on birth control since I was a child — you know, since I was 16. I was anemic, so they were like, “Your periods are too heavy. Go on birth control.”

And I’m now 29. If I only have ten more years left to bleed, I really, really want to feel it fully. And I haven’t — for 16 years, if I really think about it.

So I would like to go off birth control, but I also am not interested in getting pregnant. So what are the resources for somebody who wants to use FAM — and maybe other things — that could help us have ownership over our cycle in deep ways, but also hopefully keep us from getting pregnant if we don’t want to?

Angelica Merritt:
Right, right. Yeah. Um, and I want to note that what I'm about to share is important for people that are also not engaging in sex that could result in a pregnancy — because the signs that our body shows us whenever we’re tracking the menstrual cycle are a vital sign of our health.

It’s something that people of all walks of life can use for the betterment of their health and to get a deeper view into what’s possibly going on in the body.

I also want to say that I am not a formally trained fertility awareness method (FAM) professional. I'm someone who has practiced it. I’ve done pregnancy loss doula trainings, I’ve done other birth-related trainings, but this is not something I have formal certification in.

That said, I do have a lot of knowledge in this space. So I touched on it earlier — and what I personally use, and what I've said a couple times now, is the fertility awareness method.

That’s what I’m most familiar with. I use my cervical fluid to tell when I am fertile or not fertile in my cycle.

So through each phase of the menstrual cycle, you're going to have different kinds of cervical fluid come out of your cervix.

During the menstrual phase, you're not going to have any fluid — you’re just shedding the uterine lining like Leandra was talking about earlier. The blood is just going to be flowing through.

Then it starts to change as estrogen increases toward ovulation. It’ll change again after ovulation, during the luteal phase, and then back to the menstrual phase.

The fertile mucus that you're going to experience happens during ovulation. You can experience it for up to five days — it just depends on where you're at.

Usually, if you're in your 20s, you're going to be more fertile — those are some of your most fertile years. So that's when you're going to be experiencing this fluid.

And it is this clear, egg-white, stretchy fluid. It literally looks and acts like raw egg white.

That’s what keeps sperm safe. Sperm can live in the vagina — and in that area — for up to five days. That fluid keeps it safe and essentially acts like an elevator through the cervix, the uterus, the fallopian tubes, and up toward the egg that’s waiting for potential fertilization.

Angelica Merritt:
...window where you can get pregnant in any given cycle. And it's important that you're aware of what your cycle is doing from cycle to cycle.

For example, a person who experiences a 21-day cycle is going to have a different ovulation day than someone who experiences a 35-day cycle. That’s a two-week difference in cycle timing!

So I don’t want to get too lost in the sauce — but mostly, I want people to note that the “Day 14 Myth” — the idea that you’re going to ovulate on day 14 and that’s the only day you can get pregnant — is not true.

Let that myth die here. Now. Tell everyone you know!

You might ovulate on day 14, but you’re not necessarily going to ovulate on day 14 every single cycle. And just because you ovulate on day 14 doesn’t mean the person next to you will, even if you both have the same cycle length.

What I mean by that is: maybe you both have a 21-day cycle, but your hormones and your body are going to be doing different things.

So it’s really important to get information from a solid resource.

And I’m happy to provide you with some books and resources from people I really trust for the listeners to check out when it comes to the fertility awareness method — whether you're coming off birth control or looking for a natural way to understand your cycle, whether to conceive or not to conceive.

It’s a really important thing to know — not just for yourself, but to teach others.

Before my partner and I got serious, I literally handed him a zine I had. It was a fertility awareness zine — and it had a beautiful breakdown of the different phases of the menstrual cycle and all the different kinds of cervical fluid.

I told him, “You're not touching me until you've read this — and you can tell me how to identify fertile fluid.”

Elyse Welles:
Nice! I think that’s such a great way to take the power back. Like, “Yeah, this is my cycle, this is my body — if you want to partner with me, you’re going to recognize it and respect it.”

Angelica Merritt:
Exactly. I love that.

Elyse Welles:
So, one of the things I’ve been doing for the past year or so is cycle eating. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with cycle syncing?

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah, yeah!

Elyse Welles:
So like, during my cycle, I eat more spicy foods, for example. And I feel like it really supports me during the luteal phase — or the follicular phase. It helps me track what’s happening.

Now, I’ve kind of fallen off the wagon the past few weeks because things have been nuts — but I notice that when I do track and change what I eat according to my phase, I’m way more in tune with what’s shifting.

Angelica Merritt:
Yep!

Elyse Welles:
Do you have any recommendations for our listeners on that? Or any ideas on how to get started? Because I know there aren’t too many resources out there.

Angelica Merritt:
Yes! So in my book, I actually break down each menstrual phase — and I go through the nutrients that our bodies really need during each one. I also cover supportive movement and herbs during those times, and why they’re so effective.

There’s like 30 pages of information...

Angelica Merritt:
...that I could break down, but it really varies from phase to phase.

First and foremost, if people want to start on the journey of eating foods that support the different phases of the menstrual cycle, start by eating whole foods. And really tap into your body — like we were talking about earlier. There’s so much power in simply becoming hyper-aware of your body.

When you're eating certain things, notice what reactions are happening throughout your body. Take note of that. And then, if you want to dive deeper into what nutrients are specifically geared toward supporting you during each phase — that awareness is going to help you realize things like,
“Oh, I really crave steak and dark leafy greens when I’m bleeding — why is that?”

And it’s like — oh right, because those foods contain the nutrients you need to nourish your body and prepare for the next cycle. Prepare for ovulation. Prepare for the thickening of the uterine lining that happens right after menstruation ends.

Elyse Welles:
It helps me meal plan and grocery shop. Honestly, I cook according to my cycle. And if anyone else in my house doesn’t want to eat it — they can order out. You know, there’s Uber, there’s whatever they want to use. There’s a restaurant at the corner.

But I’ve found that I feel more supported. It’s my way of supporting myself and making sure I have the nutrients I need.

Like, I’ve definitely noticed — after doing this for about a year — that during my cycle, I crave spicy foods. I want soups. I want stews. I want things that are warm and get the blood moving.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Elyse Welles:
This is weird, but I also crave seafood when I’m on my cycle.

Angelica Merritt:
That makes sense! Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense. I mean, it’s omega-3s — omega-3s are very supportive for inflammation.

It would also make sense just with your ancestry. That’s probably something your ancestors ate a lot of. And in tandem with being supportive to the menstrual phase — it’s protein-packed. It’s a hunk of pure, beautiful protein that’s nourishing and helps the body decrease inflammation and have an easier time with the release.

We also have to remember that our bodies are hydrated by oils — not just water. We always think “water, water, water,” but oils are incredibly essential to hydrating our skin, our organs, and keeping our cell linings intact.

Elyse Welles:
Very interesting.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. Our bodies know what they need.

Elyse Welles:
Yeah. They do. They really do. It’s beautiful.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. Yeah.

Elyse Welles:
I began an embodiment journey in March of 2024, and I actually created a new journal and really revamped my spiritual practice to bring my body into it a lot more.

And since that journey began, I’ve been able to lose 60 pounds. It’s wild. By literally just releasing. I released fears of being seen. I was like, “Okay, I’m going to listen to my body.”

I found out I’m allergic to dairy. I’m pretty highly intolerant to soy. I can eat things that have 20% or less soy in them — like a sauce or something — but that’s about the max.

Elyse Welles:
...Also, in listening to my body — and I'm on birth control, I've been on the pill for like a billion years — I can start to feel the shifts in things. I've even noticed, like I do a live every Wednesday morning, and I was scrolling through them, and it must be when I'm ovulating.

Which I think the pill keeps you from ovulating — but it’s like there's something being released at that time. I look different. My skin is clearer. And dude — I have the same exact skincare routine every day. It's like a good control variable, because it's always at 9 a.m. on Wednesdays. Seekers of the Sacred Wild join me for free lives. But it's like, you know — every single Wednesday.

And I was like, “Whoa. Why do I look so different?” You know? And it's so interesting — the way just saying, “Okay, I’m going to start listening to my body.” It’s been about exactly a year now that I decided that, and I’ve incorporated embodiment practices into my spiritual practice. And it has completely changed my life in ways I never expected.

So if anybody's listening and they're like, “Ah, it's too late. I’m in menopause. This episode isn’t even for me...” — No. Listening to the body is for everyone.

And I think people with wombs — we just have a little more to listen to sometimes.

Angelica Merritt:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we're in shorter cycles than people who don't have wombs. Especially cyclically, if you're looking at the microcosm of the menstrual cycle.

But then, in the macrocosm of puberty to menopause — the mother, maiden, crone... or maiden, mother, crone (it’s funny, I always flip those too! I don’t know why — like did someone say that once upon a time and now it’s just stuck in my brain forever?)...

But yeah, throughout those archetypal years, there are so many different cycles that our bodies are going through, because there are so many hormonal changes. And then also, those hormonal changes enact spiritual changes that we're going through as well.

Elyse Welles:
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Elyse Welles:
Angelica, as a clinical herbalist, are there herbs that we can take? I know there’s a lot of warnings around this — like, I know there are abortifacients and they’re not safe to necessarily administer yourself. But are there herbs you recommend that are supportive of our cycle — that maybe don’t encourage fertility, or do the opposite?

And maybe for the other way around too — if someone is trying to get pregnant, what’s a tea they could drink?

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah! So one herb that is just generally supportive to the menstrual cycle as a whole — not in regards to anything fertility-specific, like preventing or encouraging pregnancy — is nettle leaf.

And that’s like, you know, a go-to. It’s one of the herbs that herbalists just love...

Angelica Merritt:
…it’s because it’s so nutrient dense. It’s so supportive to the body and to the menstrual cycle, because it just helps replenish so many different nutrients and vitamins that are lost through menstrual blood whenever we’re bleeding.

So that’s something that I always recommend to people on repeat. It’s also an antihistamine. And specifically when it comes to endometriosis — which I have a lot of experience with — they think endometriosis has a deep intrinsic tie to histamine release.

And so nettle leaf is something that I’ve personally used, and I’ve realized that I experience a lot better conditions when I’m bleeding if I’m using that herb frequently.

In regards to using herbs to hinder implantation — I guess that’s essentially what we’d be looking for if trying to avoid pregnancy — there’s Queen Anne’s lace seeds that have historically been used.

And I want to just put out a safety note: Queen Anne’s lace has a very poisonous, lethal lookalike. It’s called hemlock. Do not go out and harvest Queen Anne’s lace seeds after listening to this, please. Please, please. If you do not know what you’re doing — don’t attempt it.

There’s a lot to say when it comes to Queen Anne’s lace seeds. There are both spiritual and scientific ways to approach this plant.

Robin Rose Bennett did a study — I think it was in either the early 2000s or late 1990s — with a group of people (mostly women, I believe) who were using Queen Anne’s lace seeds to see whether they inhibited implantation. That’s a really fascinating one. I’ll send you the link to that so people can check it out.

That’s one plant that may help in that way.

Also, papaya seeds are another that have historically been used to inhibit implantation.

Elyse Welles:
I had a friend who said men can take it as well?

Angelica Merritt:
Yes! There’s actually a really interesting scientific study that was done — I can’t recall it perfectly, but I just read it like two months ago. But yes, men can also use it.

The study said it helped decrease motility of sperm. I don’t know if it decreases the actual count of sperm, but I’m pretty sure it decreases the motility — like it slows them down.

So potentially, it would be helpful for both parties to take it. But again, it doesn’t come without warnings — and awareness around how to take it.

I don’t want people to think they can just start taking papaya seeds, like eating a few every morning, and that’s going to help prevent implantation.

There’s a lot of knowledge that needs to be had — like being aware of your cycle, knowing when you’re ovulating and when you’re not, and having a protocol as to when and why you’d take these seeds.

In some cases, for example, Queen Anne’s lace has even been shown to help encourage implantation in some people. Some folks reported that it did the opposite of what they hoped.

So there’s a spiritual aspect to this plant that I think may influence its effect. And I'm happy to provide more links for people who want to read up further.

But I do want to say clearly — don’t self-administer without guidance.

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah. And people — I don't think people understand where they come from, like that allopathic idealism — that “Oh, I just take this and everything will be fine” mindset. The magic pill syndrome that modern medicine really has given us. You know, that unwanted gift. That unuseful gift.

Because herbalism doesn't work the same for every single body.

Angelica Merritt:
Exactly.

Leandra Witchwood:
You could take 100mg of something and have it work great for you. But if I take 100mg of that same thing, it might not do anything. So there's this real caveat.

And I'm a big advocate for blends — like, blending herbs so the body can pick and choose what it needs. The body is smart. The herbs are smart. They know what they need. But that also gives room for the body to use it in the way it wants to be used.

Just like you said with Queen Anne’s lace not always working for everyone.

You mentioned nettle — and in my head, I was like, “She’s going to say nettle. I know she’s going to say nettle,” because that would be one of the ones that I recommend. I have a tea that’s nettle and rosehip — both of those together to nourish the body. That’s what I use after my bleed to replenish everything.

I also use it after I get out of the garden and I’m sweaty and dirty and dehydrated. So we can use these herbs in many different ways, and they work differently for everybody.

So keep that in mind. If you're going to start researching this and start taking an herbal remedy, I recommend everyone find a qualified, licensed, or certified herbalist to work with. Somebody who's been doing it for a while, who knows their stuff — who didn’t just go on the internet and do a Google search type thing.

Angelica Merritt:
Exactly — or use AI to do their formulas. That’s a new one!

Leandra Witchwood:
I was just about to say that — and it’s been making me sick to my stomach. I saw some people posting about others using AI for herbal formulations and I was completely horrified.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah. This is worse than Google. You’d think it couldn’t get worse, but it did.

Leandra Witchwood:
Yes. And there are so many books now being written by AI.

Angelica Merritt:
Written by AI.

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah. And decks — I saw a post recently about a deck that someone was talking about and enjoying, and then someone commented like, “This was made by AI.”

So she went back to the publisher, and the publisher kind of reluctantly admitted… there’s no author.

Angelica Merritt:
What?!

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah. That is haunting.

Leandra Witchwood:
…experience something that is, quote, perfect. You know, you can't help but stare at it or listen to it, and you're like—this doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right biologically. Something goes off in us, like “Yeah, this feels off.” It puts you into that fight or flight state—or at least it does for me.

Elyse Welles:
Danger! Danger! Yeah. Run!

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah! Even—like, I remember a long time ago, I saw a post about conventionally attractive people—how if you actually look at them symmetrically, they wouldn't really be symmetrical. Their smiles are crooked or something's slightly off. And I do think the human desire is not perfection, but wholeness.

It's funny because the word “perfect”—regular listeners are going to roll their eyes—but “perfect love and perfect trust” is the foundation of modern witchcraft. It’s a big phrase. We use it a lot.

And people get really hung up on “perfect.” They're like, “Oh, that means I need to be done. I need to know all the things. I need to be all the things. I need to do all the things.”

And it’s like—no. You are whole unto yourself.

So when I use the word “perfect,” I always mean “whole unto itself,” whatever that’s referring to.

Angelica Merritt:
I love that.

Leandra Witchwood (ad):
Hey, it's Leandra, and I'm here to invite you to join me in the Rebel Mystic Coven.

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So I hope you’ll join me. Check the link in the show notes for more information. Blessed be!

Leandra Witchwood:
Okay, so before we wrap up, I was hoping you could give us some ideas, advice, or indications for our listeners who are reaching perimenopause—or maybe they’re already in menopause and just aren’t sure.

Because like we said before, we’re kind of disconnected from our bodies. We’ve been taught not to trust what we feel. So help us out.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah, yeah. So as we said earlier, perimenopause can actually start to occur for some people in their late 30s—but you’re more likely to experience it between the ages of 40 and 45.

Essentially, the body is starting to release less estrogen, and your egg reserves are going down. During this time, you’re likely to experience different symptoms that are more aligned with what people identify as menopause.

Now, there’s no one-size-fits-all experience. No two people go through perimenopause or menopause in the exact same way. But there are some general symptoms and energetic shifts that can come up.

You might experience hot flashes. Vaginal dryness. You might notice your energy levels going up and down in ways you’re not used to. You might feel more fatigue or have trouble sleeping. Night sweats can become common.

Your body is sending different hormonal signals, and those signals can confuse other parts of your body—especially the parts that regulate internal temperature. That’s where the heat is coming from.

You might also notice that your period becomes irregular—stopping and starting unpredictably. You’re not considered postmenopausal until you’ve had 12 full months without a menstrual bleed.

Angelica Merritt:
...you’ve experienced no bleeding at all — so no menstrual cycle.

During perimenopause, and even during your menopausal years, you might experience times where you don’t bleed for nine months — and then all of a sudden, you have a cycle again. And then it might repeat in some variation of that.

That’s your body telling you that your reproductive years are coming to completion — and you're moving into the menopausal years, the postmenopausal years — your crone years.

There’s really a huge variety of herbs that can be applied during this time. But I really like to focus on herbs that are supportive to the whole body system.

And honestly, even before herbs, I like to look at a person’s lifestyle — to make sure it’s supportive to this transition. Because this is one of the biggest transitions we experience as people with wombs.

Making sure we have our lifestyle set up will promote better experiences with symptoms — which can be really stark, or they can be subtle. But either way, it’s the closing of a chapter. And that’s an exciting thing, especially when we feel supported.

So I recommend focusing on foods that are super nourishing.

I really believe that if we focus on building a nourishing lifestyle before our perimenopausal years, it will carry us more gracefully into them.

But even if you haven’t been doing that — it’s not too late. You can shift and create a nourishing lifestyle during menopause or perimenopause.

And by that, I mean:

Creating a diet that’s nourishing and exciting

Not restricting yourself completely — allow yourself the piece of pie

Let food bring joy and nutrients

Make the intention that the food you’re eating is both nutrient-dense and something you genuinely enjoy.

Also, making sure that you’re supporting your body through movement.

It’s important to note: for every year after age 30, we lose muscle mass.

So during this time, really focus on lifting weights. That’s something I tell everyone in my life who’s perimenopausal or menopausal.

Now, not everyone is going to want to go to the gym and lift iron — and that’s okay. But if you can start somewhere — for example, carrying laundry from one floor to another — that’s better than doing nothing.

Because as we go postmenopausal, our bones become more brittle. So we want to focus on keeping strength in the body.

Angelica Merritt:
...keeping them strong and healthy.

And with that being said, we also need to make sure that we are having good practices around our stress.

Stress is something we feel really affected by during perimenopause and menopause. And some herbs that could be supportive in helping us integrate some of the stresses — physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually — include:

Skullcap

Passionflower — especially for relaxing and supporting sleep

Tulsi (Holy Basil)

Ashwagandha — a hot-ticket herb these days, but still so supportive

Leandra Witchwood:
I love the thing you said about support. So while we need to feel supported in our diet and exercise, we also need to feel support from our community.

And when you mentioned lifting weights, it triggered something I was reading about perimenopausal and menopausal stages — that our exercise has to change.

High-intensity training (HIIT) and heavy cardio can actually trigger negative effects in the body during this time. It’s counterproductive and counterintuitive.

So moderate cardio is important — but weights are essential.

A friend of mine was going through menopause, and she realized she felt so weak. Like, she couldn’t even lift a bag of cat food. It was that realization:
Yeah, we change drastically.

It’s such a transition for the body to go through this. So we have to shift everything. And yeah, it kind of sucks. But at the same time — it’s a stage. It’s a rite of passage.

Angelica Merritt:
Absolutely. Look how far we’ve come, right?

Leandra Witchwood:
Right. And it can be really empowering, too.

Angelica Merritt:
Right. Because you're like — oh, like… you do have the ability. Even if you’ve never strength trained in your entire life, you can still do it. You’ve grown this body for so many decades. You’ve gone through your reproductive years. You’re such a strong human being — to have made it to this time and space.

So you can slowly start with those kinds of tools. And it’s going to be a source of empowerment — doing strength training and figuring out what that means for you and your body. Your body will thank you for it.

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah. And I think celebrating these rites of passage as rites of passage — making time to get together with your friends.

Like, when you hit that 12 months of no bleed, celebrate your crone energy.

In the coven I trained with in the eclectic Feri tradition — they have a nature sanctuary. The coven closed a few years ago, but the sanctuary is still in York, Pennsylvania.

Every year, my high priestess hosts a Crones’ Tea on Hekate’s feast day, on or around November 16th.

So if you’re coming up to crone age — message me. I can get you in touch with her sanctuary. They’re a little old school, the way they run things, but...

Truly stepping into your crone energy is really important.

We celebrate motherhood only when it’s about children. And that really, really, really irks me.

I remember a friend of mine started a new business, and then a year later—

Leandra Witchwood:
...had a baby. And I just remember the contrast of celebration, you know? I’m like, What? She birthed a business — that doesn’t count?

Or like for my books — I’ve birthed books, but people still — not all people, but some — are like, “Oh, when are you having a child?”

I’m like, “Oh, I’m having two this year! What are you talking about?”

So absolutely — these rites of passage: get together, celebrate them, do ritual.

You know, not everybody has the beauty and luxury of a local coven to join, but that is the value of this kind of community — having a space to celebrate your rites of passage. It helps us actually settle into them.

Because it’s hard to actually say — like, even turning 30 next month. I’m like, Whoa. That’s scary. So planning my birthday party has been kind of a way of saying, “Okay, this is happening. And it’s going to be fine. It’s actually going to be fun.”

That’s what rites of passage are supposed to be. They’re supposed to be celebrations.

Angelica Merritt:
Absolutely. And they’re so important. Right? Like, I think that holding on to joy right now is one of the most potent medicines that we can all partake in.

I keep hearing this from others, and I really am steeping this into my own life — and I hope it echoes out — that joy is so important. We have to celebrate our human experiences.

And yeah, like you’re saying — celebrate these rites and acknowledge them as sources of power and joy and connection with all that is and all that ever has been.

There’s nothing that has ever been created by humans that isn’t in thanks to the womb space.

And not only from the people who birthed those babies — like you and I — but the people who nurtured them and tended to them. The people who have chosen not to have children and teach or tend to these people or be in relationship with these people.

Those people are so important, too. And they’re the reason why we have anything we have — and the reason why we can be talking to each other right now.

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah. That makes me think of Starhawk — she chose not to have children, but she birthed the Reclaiming movement.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah — modern witchcraft, essentially!

Leandra Witchwood:
She was actually in an interview on DruidCast in 2016 talking about that. I just caught up with it. And I was like — Huh. Yeah.

Angelica Merritt:
There are lots of ways to step into our mother energy. Our nurturer energy.

In the container I offer to my students, we teach that the womb space is something we can create energetically — not just physically.

You don’t have to be female or a woman to have this womb space. You create that womb space — for creation, for manifestation, for nurturing yourself.

So it’s spiritual. It’s ethereal. It’s physical. It’s everything.

Leandra Witchwood:
Beautiful. All right, Angelica — tell our listeners where they can get your book, Womb Witch, where they can keep up with you and all the things you're up to.

Angelica Merritt:
Yeah! So Womb Witch: Herbal Magic for Reproductive Health can be purchased online at Microcosm Publishing.

I’m also personally selling signed copies — if that’s your type of thing, you can message me directly at @dandeliondazed — that’s D-A-E-Z-E-D — on Instagram.

I’m on Substack and YouTube at Angelica Merritt — actually, wait, I take that back! On Substack, I’m also @dandeliondazed.

And my website is AngelicaMerritt.com.

I do herbal consultations and will be doing workshops in Cleveland...

Angelica Merritt:
...on April 5th, and then in Brooklyn at the Anima Mundi Apothecary on April 15th.

I'm not sure when this is going to air.

Leandra Witchwood:
Yeah, I think this month.

Angelica Merritt:
Okay, um, and then also I will be doing virtual workshops as well in the coming future. So if you are interested in that, go ahead and follow me online. Sign up for my Substack — that’s what I use as my newsletter.

Leandra Witchwood:
Thank you both so much for having me. This was wonderful.

Angelica Merritt:
Thank you for coming on and talking to us about this. This is a good, good topic. I love it. I think we need to talk more about this stuff.

Elyse Welles:
Absolutely.

All:
Merry meet, merry part, and merry meet again.

Closing Narration:
Thank you for joining us on the Magick Kitchen Podcast.

Please visit LeandraWitchwood.com for news, information, and more episodes.

I’m Elyse Welles, and I can be found at Seeking Numina on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and at SeekingNumina.com — that’s Seeking Numina.