.0000000001 They're still doing it.

3 00:00:09,440.0000000001 --> 00:00:09,500 Yeah.

We must provide them with a way to do it safely or we're never going to serve our families properly.

Exactly.

So I'm gonna get off my soapbox on that.

I'm not trying to like hammer a go.

No, I wanna add one more thing too.

Yeah, please.

There's research behind it too.

Like, you know, in, in studies that have been done, 60 to 70%, depending on like between US and Canada, it was like, I think 60 or 70 in both in either country are bringing a baby under six months into their bed.

.633 So the vast majority are, Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Birth Lounge podcast.

13 00:01:24,661.633 --> 00:01:25,411.633 All right, you guys.

14 00:01:25,591.633 --> 00:01:30,241.633 I'm literally walking on my treadmill the other day, as I'm trying to.

15 00:01:30,661.633 --> 00:01:43,921.633 Prepare for this baby trying to get my body right and I've been prioritizing walking every single day, particularly after lunch and dinner, in hopes to help avoid preeclampsia.

16 00:01:43,921.633 --> 00:01:49,351.633 'cause we know that walking after eating can help balance your blood sugar.

17 00:01:49,356.633 --> 00:01:53,911.633 So that also decreases your risk of things like gestational diabetes and preeclampsia.

18 00:01:53,911.633 --> 00:01:54,661.633 But nevertheless.

19 00:01:54,716.633 --> 00:01:57,926.633 I looked down at my phone and I get a text and it read.

20 00:01:57,996.633 --> 00:01:59,766.633 He, you have no idea.

21 00:01:59,766.633 --> 00:02:01,56.633 You saved my life.

22 00:02:01,56.633 --> 00:02:12,396.633 I didn't know how bad it was until I finally slept and I thought, what in the world?

And I texted back and said, I'm so glad that you finally slept.

23 00:02:12,426.633 --> 00:02:24,61.633 What do you think was the key?

Factor, and this mama wrote back and said, your newborn Sleep solutions guide has changed our life.

24 00:02:24,61.633 --> 00:02:27,31.633 I finally feel like myself again.

25 00:02:27,211.633 --> 00:02:34,651.633 Of course, at this point I'm crying because that is what I do when I feel so grateful that you guys allow me to.

26 00:02:34,926.633 --> 00:02:39,66.633 Space in your life and in your home to help support you during this time.

27 00:02:39,66.633 --> 00:02:54,246.633 Now, her baby is just five weeks old and he was still waking almost every 90 minutes overnight to nurse and you guys, it can be normal, but that doesn't have to be your normal.

28 00:02:54,246.633 --> 00:03:03,216.633 She was literally running on fumes, doubting herself, snapping at her partner, crying all the time, and really wondering.

29 00:03:03,491.633 --> 00:03:20,411.633 What the heck have I done?

When she reached out to me, I was sure to gently but firmly let her know that yeah, at five weeks your baby really should be doing four to five hour, maybe even six hour stretches at night.

30 00:03:20,621.633 --> 00:03:22,481.633 And she was completely flabbergasted.

31 00:03:22,481.633 --> 00:03:24,671.633 And all she asked was how.

32 00:03:25,16.633 --> 00:03:30,96.633 How do I make that happen?

Here's a couple of things.

33 00:03:30,216.633 --> 00:03:34,986.633 First of all, daytime sleep really does dictate nighttime sleep.

34 00:03:34,986.633 --> 00:03:38,826.633 So if your baby's not sleeping enough during the day, they're not gonna sleep at night.

35 00:03:38,856.633 --> 00:03:46,206.633 And I know that seems counterintuitive, but newborns need around 18 hours of sleep every single day.

36 00:03:46,206.633 --> 00:03:52,691.633 Plus, if the sleep environment isn't set up right, then well, they're not gonna sleep very well during the day.

37 00:03:52,691.633 --> 00:03:52,851.633 That's.

38 00:03:53,186.633 --> 00:03:56,936.633 Sleep is gonna happen in these short, exhausting bursts.

39 00:03:56,936.633 --> 00:04:09,326.633 And then one other thing you need to know is that research shows that consistent sleep patterns both support the newborn brain development and mom and dad's mental health.

40 00:04:09,386.633 --> 00:04:17,361.633 So I'll pass along my newborn sleep solution guides, and I was sure to remind her that good sleep is not a luxury.

41 00:04:17,361.633 --> 00:04:22,911.633 You don't have to pay expensive money or hire these gurus.

42 00:04:22,911.633 --> 00:04:28,911.633 You can literally just lay a healthy sleep foundation for your baby because well, they're human.

43 00:04:28,911.633 --> 00:04:29,721.633 They need sleep.

44 00:04:29,721.633 --> 00:04:35,31.633 Sleep is literally one of the primal things that we need to stay alive.

45 00:04:35,61.633 --> 00:04:38,271.633 And I explain all of this in the Newborn Sleep Solutions Guide.

46 00:04:38,271.633 --> 00:04:47,201.633 I lay out exactly what your daytime routine should look like in order to enable you to have a good solid nighttime of rest.

47 00:04:47,441.633 --> 00:04:48,851.633 I talked to you about wake windows.

48 00:04:49,581.633 --> 00:04:57,81.633 How much you should be feeding your baby different sleep environment factors and how to tweak those to best support your child's development.

49 00:04:57,291.633 --> 00:05:02,181.633 Plus, I'm talking to you about all the places that are safe for your baby to sleep.

50 00:05:02,331.633 --> 00:05:16,491.633 And yes, I do step you through safe co-sleeping because here's the thing, I know so many of you are doing it, and what I don't want you to do is do it dangerously without understanding how to safely do it.

51 00:05:17,26.633 --> 00:05:17,356.633 Yeah.

52 00:05:17,356.633 --> 00:05:23,106.633 I'm not one of those staunchly, put your baby on their back in their crib in a different room.

53 00:05:23,226.633 --> 00:05:24,126.633 No way.

54 00:05:24,126.633 --> 00:05:27,66.633 I'm going to talk to you about all of your options.

55 00:05:27,246.633 --> 00:05:37,221.633 What does it look like to put your baby in their own room, in their crib, on their back?

What does it look like to have their crib in your room, or maybe they're in a bassinet, and then what does it look like to save.

56 00:05:38,111.633 --> 00:05:48,821.633 Co-sleep because here's the thing, I don't care how you sleep with your baby, I just want you to do it safely and more so I want you and your baby to be getting good, hearty sleep at night.

57 00:05:48,821.633 --> 00:05:51,341.633 It is going to make you a better mother.

58 00:05:51,461.633 --> 00:05:53,891.633 You're gonna love life even more.

59 00:05:54,11.633 --> 00:06:00,851.633 You're gonna be able to bond with your baby even deeper, and your baby will actually be more enjoyable during the day.

60 00:06:00,911.633 --> 00:06:02,976.633 So say goodbye to the short 20 minute nap.

61 00:06:03,311.633 --> 00:06:05,21.633 Say goodbye to the witching hour.

62 00:06:05,21.633 --> 00:06:14,351.633 Say goodbye to the inconsolable crying and say hello to 4, 5, 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep at night.

63 00:06:14,351.633 --> 00:06:17,81.633 Where when you wake up, you go OMG.

64 00:06:17,81.633 --> 00:06:19,151.633 I am a new lady.

65 00:06:19,541.633 --> 00:06:26,321.633 Head to the show notes right now and you will find our Newborn Sleep Solutions guide linked right there for you.

66 00:06:26,321.633 --> 00:06:29,561.633 Click on the link and you'll be able to download it and get started today.

67 00:06:29,561.633 --> 00:06:34,61.633 And the best part is it doesn't have a long implementation period.

68 00:06:34,271.633 --> 00:06:37,421.633 You can literally download it now and implement it.

69 00:06:37,661.633 --> 00:06:39,341.633 Soon as you get through the guide.

70 00:06:39,371.633 --> 00:06:41,501.633 Yeah, like literally in an hour or two.

71 00:06:41,711.633 --> 00:06:47,21.633 It doesn't take long, and you'll see instant results, I promise.

72 00:06:47,21.633 --> 00:06:57,191.633 If you're still a little skeptical, you can head to my Instagram and you can look at all of the hundreds of parents that have come before you that have literally changed their life, sleepless.

73 00:06:57,651.633 --> 00:07:03,711.633 And afternoons filled with your baby crying and you crying does not have to be your norm.

74 00:07:04,11.633 --> 00:07:15,51.633 You can get back to solid sleep, but there are some simple tweaks that need to happen in your life and in your home and in your routines, and I'm gonna teach you exactly how to do that.

75 00:07:15,201.633 --> 00:07:20,301.633 Head to the Lincoln, the show notes and download our newborn Sleep solution guide right now.

76 00:07:20,421.633 --> 00:07:21,831.633 Happy snoozing.

77 00:07:22,421.633 --> 00:07:22,871.633 Alright.

78 00:07:22,931.633 --> 00:07:34,301.633 Have you ever wondered why babies sleep better when they are near adults?

Or if you've ever been nap trapped, you realize very quickly, holy cow.

79 00:07:34,331.633 --> 00:07:36,701.633 Contact naps are kind of magical.

80 00:07:36,701.633 --> 00:07:44,771.633 My baby will stay asleep for hours and it's deep, restful, restorative sleep.

81 00:07:45,116.633 --> 00:07:59,541.633 But that lends the question of how close is close, what does that proximity actually look like?

Does your baby really need to be on your body?

Is co-sleeping truly an option?

Is it safe?

Is it.

82 00:07:59,896.633 --> 00:08:04,846.633 Better is being in a bassinet in your room just as well.

83 00:08:04,846.633 --> 00:08:12,136.633 And then of course, the question on everyone's mind, especially if you're online and you have had the algorithm feed you.

84 00:08:12,136.633 --> 00:08:23,596.633 These fear-based posts by these pediatricians who are so unwilling to have a conversation about co-sleeping is SIDS, which is super scary and also super real.

85 00:08:23,716.633 --> 00:08:27,556.633 I don't want to, in any way dismiss the reality of.

86 00:08:27,651.633 --> 00:09:09,641.633 Sids, but what if there were things, there were protective factors that you could put in place to reduce your risk of SIDS and maybe even prevent it all together?

Have you ever thought about where co-sleeping and bed sharing comes from?

The cultural practices of having your children in the same room or bed as you long term and deeper than that?

Have you ever thought about what actually happens when we sleep, how restorative sleep actually plays into our emotional regulation and our overall development and health and wellbeing?

Today, I'm so excited to have on someone that I have.

87 00:09:09,661.633 --> 00:09:15,31.633 Followed for many years and I have learned so much from, and that is Dr.

88 00:09:15,31.633 --> 00:09:16,581.633 Greer Kirshenbaum.

89 00:09:16,771.633 --> 00:09:22,861.633 She is a neuroscientist, an author, a doula, an infinite family, sleep specialist, and a mom.

90 00:09:23,401.633 --> 00:09:29,41.633 She trained at the University of Toronto and Columbia University with additional training at New York University.

91 00:09:29,221.633 --> 00:09:46,171.633 And Yale Greer has combined her academic training with her experience as a doula and a mom to lead the Nurture Revolution, which coincidentally is also the name of her book, and I'm reading it right now as I prepare for my own baby.

92 00:09:46,201.633 --> 00:09:46,501.633 Dr.

93 00:09:46,501.633 --> 00:09:57,421.633 Kirshenbaum started a movement to nurture our baby's brain so that we can revolutionize mental health and impact larger systems in our world, starting with newborn sleep.

94 00:09:57,461.633 --> 00:10:13,721.633 She also hypothesizes that through a boost in mental wellness, we can diminish depression, anxiety, and addiction in adulthood by shaping babies' brains through simple, intuitive, enriching experiences in pregnancy, birth, and infancy.

95 00:10:13,811.633 --> 00:10:23,531.633 In today's episode, I'm gonna ask her all about good sleep quality and this myth about babies needing to learn to self.

96 00:10:23,651.633 --> 00:10:36,521.633 Soothe and the idea behind putting your baby down drowsy but awake, which of course leads us into the conversation of quote unquote, creating bad habits.

97 00:10:36,671.633 --> 00:10:40,901.633 I'm particularly interested in what the neuroscience says about that concern.

98 00:10:42,151.633 --> 00:10:58,81.633 I'm also interested in how close sleep proximity impacts things like long-term breastfeeding milk supply, and the hormonal and emotional regulation, particularly cortisol levels in our babies.

99 00:10:58,261.633 --> 00:11:07,411.633 This is a conversation that I get to completely nerd out, and it is so cool to be able to bring you along with this conversation.

100 00:11:07,801.633 --> 00:11:10,621.633 So buckle up and maybe even grab a.

101 00:11:10,681.633 --> 00:11:15,331.633 Pen and paper, 'cause there's probably some things you're gonna wanna jot down throughout this episode.

102 00:11:15,751.633 --> 00:11:17,941.633 Without further ado, Dr.

103 00:11:17,941.633 --> 00:11:19,531.633 Greer, welcome to the show.

104 00:11:19,531.633 --> 00:11:20,161.633 Thank you.

105 00:11:20,161.633 --> 00:11:21,361.633 It's a pleasure to be here.

106 00:11:21,661.633 --> 00:11:25,381.633 It is an honor for me to have you on the show.

107 00:11:25,621.633 --> 00:11:48,901.633 This is a topic that I'm so passionate about and it blends beautifully with my background of human development and being able to help parents understand that, things like attachment and bonding and sleep, these are biological needs we are wired to have and do these things.

108 00:11:48,901.633 --> 00:12:01,891.633 Even though the internet has this really nasty way of making us believe that babies don't sleep, they will never sleep, just get used to running on two hours of sleep.

109 00:12:01,891.633 --> 00:12:04,891.633 And that is just simply not the truth.

110 00:12:04,891.633 --> 00:12:07,951.633 And so I'm so excited to, hopefully.

111 00:12:08,491.633 --> 00:12:16,921.633 Rewire people's brains and rewrite that narrative for parents so that they can walk away understanding like, Hey, I can actually get my baby to sleep.

112 00:12:16,921.633 --> 00:12:20,101.633 They're biologically wired to sleep.

113 00:12:20,161.633 --> 00:12:27,601.633 If I can understand and kind of set up our environment and our home and our schedules and our routines to facilitate that.

114 00:12:27,631.633 --> 00:12:43,751.633 So a good jumping off place for us to start would be on a base line, what does neuroscience tell us about newborn sleep or infant sleep?

I love everything you said because that's the goal.

115 00:12:43,781.633 --> 00:13:07,891.633 My, my life goal is to, remove all of the, the fear and the myths and this, this whole world, this billion dollar industry of infant sleep for parents and so they can understand how to live in synchrony with their baby sleep, actually enjoy it.

116 00:13:07,921.633 --> 00:13:25,81.633 Actually find some of the mean, most of the moments supporting a baby's sleep are actually some of the most magnified, beautiful moments of all of infancy can create so much love and oxytocin and awe and joy.

117 00:13:25,531.633 --> 00:13:54,1.633 And it is not, you know, what it's painted as, right?

Is this like terrible problem that like you must follow these very strict rules and control and dominate, right?

Because as you said, it's biological process, you can't control or dominate that you actually can't force any human to either, to eat or sleep, right?

And that really, really is obvious with a baby, right?

So love it.

118 00:13:54,51.633 --> 00:14:00,21.633 That is one of the biggest missions of my life, is to get parents to a place of peace and.

119 00:14:00,651.633 --> 00:14:07,811.633 It sounds wild, but some of that real juicy joy with their baby's sleep.

120 00:14:07,841.633 --> 00:14:15,381.633 And I've worked with thousands of parents at this point and they all get there and it is really just learning the science.

121 00:14:15,501.633 --> 00:14:15,771.633 Right.

122 00:14:15,771.633 --> 00:14:21,411.633 So I think the biggest thing is neuroscience tells us that babies know how to sleep.

123 00:14:22,491.633 --> 00:14:26,241.633 They've been doing it all along the whole time.

124 00:14:26,241.633 --> 00:14:27,291.633 You've been growing them.

125 00:14:27,381.633 --> 00:14:32,61.633 They know how to sleep in the womb and they also know how to sleep when they're born.

126 00:14:32,361.633 --> 00:14:39,901.633 But we just have to be curious about it and learn about it and change, probably change a lot about ourselves in the process.

127 00:14:40,141.633 --> 00:14:40,351.633 Yeah.

128 00:14:40,741.633 --> 00:15:00,406.633 And what does that curiosity look like?

So what kind of questions should we be asking as new parents once our baby is born?

Yeah, so I think one of the big messages that come from baby brain development and this early, the early days with a baby is to be really present.

129 00:15:00,826.633 --> 00:15:04,516.633 And that's a big switch for people, a very big switch.

130 00:15:04,516.633 --> 00:15:13,156.633 We're mostly humans doing, we're mostly doing our to-do list, doing our work, doing our fun.

131 00:15:13,576.633 --> 00:15:21,346.633 Some of us do have beautiful practices of being as well, but maybe not everyone, like most people don't actually, in my experience.

132 00:15:21,376.633 --> 00:15:27,466.633 And babies really ask us to be there and be present and be with them.

133 00:15:28,336.633 --> 00:15:45,736.633 And so that would be the first step is to say, how does my baby need me to be with them right now?

And for the newborn days?

A lot of that, the answer there is keeping that baby very close.

134 00:15:46,996.633 --> 00:15:53,26.633 They get so much safety from your presence.

135 00:15:53,726.633 --> 00:15:58,196.633 The second your baby's born, they are looking for your smell.

136 00:15:58,556.633 --> 00:16:04,316.633 They're looking for your touch, they're looking for your tastes, they're looking for your eyes.

137 00:16:04,536.633 --> 00:16:12,906.633 They're living in this total sensory world where mostly mom 'cause you, they know you the best right now.

138 00:16:12,906.633 --> 00:16:16,376.633 And then dad or other parents can join, will join in.

139 00:16:16,846.633 --> 00:16:28,396.633 But immediately they're looking for mom and are instantly calmed and soothed and feel totally safe and at home, on you and with you.

140 00:16:28,816.633 --> 00:16:31,816.633 And that is something to notice.

141 00:16:31,816.633 --> 00:16:34,696.633 That is where they will sleep and rest the best.

142 00:16:35,296.633 --> 00:16:40,756.633 But parents are because of the outside influences, sometimes even from birth.

143 00:16:41,836.633 --> 00:16:47,446.633 Begin a struggle for separation with their baby, where they're like, no, this baby should be in the bassinet.

144 00:16:47,446.633 --> 00:16:53,536.633 They should be wrapped in a swaddle with a hat and gloves and a pacifier in a bassinet away from me.

145 00:16:53,776.633 --> 00:16:56,536.633 And it's, and the baby's I don't feel safe here.

146 00:16:56,926.633 --> 00:16:58,216.633 I need my home.

147 00:16:59,656.633 --> 00:17:04,756.633 So we ha we have to notice that and just be there with it.

148 00:17:04,936.633 --> 00:17:05,206.633 Right.

149 00:17:05,206.633 --> 00:17:05,896.633 That's number one.

150 00:17:06,556.633 --> 00:17:06,886.633 Big one.

151 00:17:07,756.633 --> 00:17:21,766.633 So are you suggesting that maybe bed sharing or co-sleeping is one of the best ways that we can help our baby sleep and dare I say, co-regulate?

Yes, absolutely.

152 00:17:21,766.633 --> 00:17:39,871.633 I, say, through in, through a neuroscience lens, infancy babyhood is three years and and other lenses, psychological lenses and other cultural lenses that early part of life is five years and even up to seven years.

153 00:17:41,161.633 --> 00:17:48,901.633 And if we are curious in listening to our children, they do wanna sleep quite close to us throughout those first years of life.

154 00:17:48,981.633 --> 00:17:56,46.633 I have to tell you, when I started this work, telling people that they need to, at least have their baby in the same room as them for the first few months was hard.

155 00:17:56,46.633 --> 00:17:58,856.633 And now I'm like, up to seven years, I'm like whoa, calm down.

156 00:17:58,856.633 --> 00:18:03,606.633 But, some, there's, it's very different for all different people.

157 00:18:03,756.633 --> 00:18:09,906.633 Some little ones are comfortable going to their own space for at least part of the night after a couple years.

158 00:18:10,6.633 --> 00:18:11,626.633 And sometimes, sooner.

159 00:18:11,996.633 --> 00:18:17,246.633 But it is also normal if your child is wanting that closeness, right?

For the whole night or part of a part of the night.

160 00:18:17,246.633 --> 00:18:27,266.633 But certainly for the baby years, highly recommend sleeping close, whether that's right next to you or bed sharing, if that's safe for your family.

161 00:18:27,606.633 --> 00:18:33,856.633 Certainly for the newborn period, but absolutely consider it for that, those whole first three years of life.

162 00:18:34,516.633 --> 00:18:43,96.633 And what's the difference between room sharing versus bed sharing versus co-sleeping?

Yeah, good distinction.

163 00:18:43,146.633 --> 00:18:45,936.633 Co-sleeping is sort of the umbrella term.

164 00:18:47,76.633 --> 00:18:53,436.633 And so co-sleeping can mean depending on where you're reading it, it can mean either bed sharing or same room sleep.

165 00:18:53,436.633 --> 00:18:59,76.633 So I usually will say bed sharing means sharing the same surface as your baby.

166 00:18:59,886.633 --> 00:19:03,426.633 And there are very strict guidelines to do that.

167 00:19:03,786.633 --> 00:19:05,76.633 And so it's not about just.

168 00:19:05,571.633 --> 00:19:07,981.633 Throw the baby in the bed and it's all good.

169 00:19:08,231.633 --> 00:19:18,411.633 We have to be very knowledgeable about how to set that space up and also how to maintain that sa that space to be safe every single sleep.

170 00:19:18,741.633 --> 00:19:20,271.633 Right?

It's a very serious thing.

171 00:19:20,911.633 --> 00:19:26,491.633 And some people will meet all the guidelines for it and it will be safe.

172 00:19:26,551.633 --> 00:19:30,121.633 Others, it won't be, there might be some risk factors there.

173 00:19:30,121.633 --> 00:19:35,846.633 And so then same room sleep or room sharing could be an option for them too.

174 00:19:35,906.633 --> 00:19:41,366.633 And so that would mean babies in the same room, but on a different sleep surface.

175 00:19:41,906.633 --> 00:19:46,496.633 That can look like a bassinet beside the parent's bed or sometimes a crib.

176 00:19:46,766.633 --> 00:19:48,56.633 That's right next to the parent's bed.

177 00:19:48,626.633 --> 00:20:02,876.633 And what would some of those risk factors be that a family might wanna consider?

Not bed sharing for something that comes to my mind is smoking, or if you have been drinking earlier that night, a hundred percent.

178 00:20:02,876.633 --> 00:20:05,546.633 So yeah, those are very big ones.

179 00:20:05,546.633 --> 00:20:14,516.633 So if there was any smoke exposure during pregnancy or if someone in the home is smoking postpartum cigarettes or throughout cigarettes.

180 00:20:14,596.633 --> 00:20:14,926.633 Yeah.

181 00:20:15,336.633 --> 00:20:19,206.633 Then baby should be on their own surface in the room.

182 00:20:19,546.633 --> 00:20:30,36.633 And any, anything intoxicating like the, usually mom's in charge of baby overnight in a bed sharing setup and that's a whole other part we'll talk about.

183 00:20:30,36.633 --> 00:20:33,306.633 But she could have no, nothing intoxicating.

184 00:20:33,306.633 --> 00:20:38,586.633 So no alcohol, no cannabis, no prescription drug.

185 00:20:38,616.633 --> 00:20:44,896.633 Any prescription drugs that have a sedative effects mom needs to be completely aware of baby.

186 00:20:45,256.633 --> 00:20:51,346.633 So the first four months mom will be in, will be sort of the primary for baby.

187 00:20:51,736.633 --> 00:21:06,626.633 And after four months if dad or the other parent is there if there is another parent, then they develop awareness of the baby over that initial period and then they can start to be part of it as well.

188 00:21:07,16.633 --> 00:21:07,676.633 Over time.

189 00:21:07,976.633 --> 00:21:15,896.633 Yeah, no, what's that four months got to do with it?

Just a biological change that happens after four months in a male partner.

190 00:21:16,286.633 --> 00:21:26,136.633 Yeah, so for dad, it takes about 12 to 14 weeks for his parental brain circuits to mature.

191 00:21:28,116.633 --> 00:21:33,876.633 And so then after that time, he'll develop that sort of awareness of the baby.

192 00:21:33,876.633 --> 00:21:44,486.633 But, the really strict guidelines that I do recommend following for the first year are are really mom cu doing a cuddle curl around baby.

193 00:21:44,826.633 --> 00:21:45,606.633 And that sort of thing.

194 00:21:46,6.633 --> 00:21:50,236.633 Other ones risk factors are if baby's premature.

195 00:21:50,746.633 --> 00:21:53,506.633 And yeah, that's a big one.

196 00:21:53,506.633 --> 00:21:56,506.633 Or if there are any other health concerns for baby.

197 00:21:56,816.633 --> 00:22:05,186.633 Having said all of it some babies will not accept anything but being close.

198 00:22:06,596.633 --> 00:22:23,376.633 And so while some families are fully able to choose bed sharing or the sidecar room sharing set up, there are many babies who just will absolutely not sleep without contact or closeness.

199 00:22:23,586.633 --> 00:22:23,976.633 Right.

200 00:22:23,976.633 --> 00:22:31,216.633 And so there we're then following everything we possibly can, safety wise in order for everyone to sleep.

201 00:22:31,726.633 --> 00:22:32,176.633 Yeah.

202 00:22:32,596.633 --> 00:22:32,686.633 Yeah.

203 00:22:32,716.633 --> 00:22:32,926.633 Okay.

204 00:22:32,926.633 --> 00:22:36,726.633 I have a controversial question, but it super relevant here.

205 00:22:36,731.633 --> 00:22:39,471.633 And I feel like we would be remiss if we did not discuss this.

206 00:22:39,471.633 --> 00:22:50,61.633 I feel like people would walk away from this episode and say, but Greer HeHe, you guys didn't talk about this one thing that's on everyone's minds and it's obviously sids, right?

So if.

207 00:22:51,186.633 --> 00:22:56,166.633 It's biological and it's based in neuroscience to keep your babies close.

208 00:22:56,166.633 --> 00:23:01,416.633 And when we look at other mammals, they are co-sleeping with their babies.

209 00:23:01,776.633 --> 00:23:01,986.633 Yeah.

210 00:23:02,976.633 --> 00:23:05,676.633 The risk of SIDS is very real.

211 00:23:06,126.633 --> 00:23:10,716.633 We have lost babies to suffocation.

212 00:23:10,716.633 --> 00:23:10,806.633 Mm-hmm.

213 00:23:11,346.633 --> 00:23:14,826.633 Because co-sleeping was not done in a safe way.

214 00:23:15,246.633 --> 00:23:16,686.633 Yeah, absolutely.

215 00:23:16,896.633 --> 00:23:35,886.633 Where is the balance?

How do we honor that neuroscience based, biological, biologically driven?

You know, Idea of sleeping with our babies close while also reducing that risk of sids.

216 00:23:35,916.633 --> 00:23:47,736.633 Especially when our big organizations like the AAP and you have all these pediatricians coming online saying really scary things like if you co-sleep, your baby will die.

217 00:23:47,736.633 --> 00:24:05,886.633 And there's no nuance, there's no room for conversation, there's no room to ask questions and to gather more information and to explore if a family is actually appropriate to make a different decision than what's considered a norm in the US.

218 00:24:05,886.633 --> 00:24:05,976.633 Yes.

219 00:24:06,816.633 --> 00:24:14,616.633 How do we strike that balance of honoring what biology pushes us to do versus safety?

Yeah.

220 00:24:14,856.633 --> 00:24:16,86.633 Such a good question.

221 00:24:16,86.633 --> 00:24:19,56.633 So it's really hard for.

222 00:24:19,926.633 --> 00:24:32,136.633 For any of us to go against the AAP or our pediatrician, and most likely both of those will be telling you never to do this.

223 00:24:32,166.633 --> 00:24:32,286.633 Mm-hmm.

224 00:24:32,526.633 --> 00:24:32,646.633 Right.

225 00:24:32,646.633 --> 00:24:33,906.633 Never, Never to bed, share.

226 00:24:34,806.633 --> 00:24:44,916.633 And it's a big wide world where a lot of the other rest of the world has moved on and do not take an abstinence only stance.

227 00:24:45,456.633 --> 00:24:53,496.633 So the research, there are a few really good places where parents can read independent reviews of the research of sids.

228 00:24:54,306.633 --> 00:24:56,946.633 So James McKenna has two books.

229 00:24:58,41.633 --> 00:25:02,366.633 That review the research on SIDS and infant death.

230 00:25:02,856.633 --> 00:25:06,66.633 Helen Ball's book has information on it.

231 00:25:06,66.633 --> 00:25:10,386.633 And La Leche League's sweet Sleep book have a review.

232 00:25:10,386.633 --> 00:25:14,376.633 I believe Sarah Awell Smith also has a review of the research.

233 00:25:14,376.633 --> 00:25:25,756.633 And so these are at least four independent reviews that look at, very closely look at all of the cases of sids, like all of the studies on them.

234 00:25:26,26.633 --> 00:25:33,506.633 And then they go in case by case and see what happened to the baby who sadly was lost in sleep.

235 00:25:34,106.633 --> 00:25:40,976.633 And so when they do this, there is a risk factor present for.

236 00:25:41,621.633 --> 00:25:43,271.633 All, almost all of those babies.

237 00:25:43,661.633 --> 00:25:47,711.633 And so they would be, there was an intoxicated parent.

238 00:25:47,921.633 --> 00:25:52,211.633 The mattress was too soft, there was a blanket, there was a pillow.

239 00:25:52,601.633 --> 00:25:56,351.633 The baby got wedged between a headboard and a mattress.

240 00:25:56,651.633 --> 00:26:05,441.633 So the safe sleep guidelines we follow, which you can also find in all four of those books, and also other places will mitigate all of those.

241 00:26:05,441.633 --> 00:26:18,41.633 That's why I said very early on, we have to be very protective and serious about setting up a safe location and maintaining it constantly and making sure nothing ever dangerous comes into it.

242 00:26:18,41.633 --> 00:26:18,521.633 Right.

243 00:26:19,391.633 --> 00:26:31,931.633 So there is a different, these books will also do a very nice overview of, there's a difference between ASSB, which is accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed and sids.

244 00:26:32,861.633 --> 00:26:39,341.633 So most of the deaths reported in some of these studies are accidental strangulation and suffocation.

245 00:26:39,341.633 --> 00:26:43,661.633 So we can actually do a lot to make the sleep environment safe.

246 00:26:43,661.633 --> 00:26:45,701.633 So those are not a possibility.

247 00:26:46,31.633 --> 00:27:04,571.633 And then there are cases of SIDS, which when separated, it is very, very rare, but it is still there is hypothesized now to be based on a, you know, a genetic mutation that, we don't quite know exactly what it is yet.

248 00:27:04,571.633 --> 00:27:10,61.633 I hope that we can find out very soon and then can have really strong preventative care for babies who have it.

249 00:27:10,751.633 --> 00:27:18,971.633 But those babies will unfortunately be high at high risk of sids either in a crib or in a bed sharing setup.

250 00:27:19,991.633 --> 00:27:21,641.633 And so in Dr.

251 00:27:21,641.633 --> 00:27:24,881.633 McKenna's books, he talks about actually.

252 00:27:25,226.633 --> 00:27:35,216.633 A bunch of cases of bed sharing that actually saved babies' lives from sids because their mothers were so attuned to their breathing.

253 00:27:35,216.633 --> 00:27:36,506.633 They were right beside them.

254 00:27:36,686.633 --> 00:27:41,56.633 They woke up the second, their baby stopped breathing and woke them up and saved their life.

255 00:27:41,86.633 --> 00:27:42,766.633 Oh my gosh.

256 00:27:42,861.633 --> 00:27:43,881.633 That's incredible.

257 00:27:44,1.633 --> 00:27:44,691.633 Incredible.

258 00:27:45,21.633 --> 00:27:49,491.633 So there's that, and then there's also SIDS happens in cribs as well.

259 00:27:49,491.633 --> 00:27:49,551.633 Yeah.

260 00:27:50,151.633 --> 00:27:50,421.633 Okay.

261 00:27:50,421.633 --> 00:27:53,266.633 So it's not there isn't and Dr.

262 00:27:53,266.633 --> 00:27:55,876.633 McKenna talks about the too, there isn't overwhelming evidence.

263 00:27:55,876.633 --> 00:28:01,926.633 We can't go out and say bed sharing prevents SIDS, it prevent, we're still working on, on, on that research.

264 00:28:02,236.633 --> 00:28:10,646.633 But we do have all these case studies where it did, and he does say it's within his, scope to say he, he has that hunch.

265 00:28:10,646.633 --> 00:28:12,836.633 He has a hypothesis that it actually prevents.

266 00:28:13,256.633 --> 00:28:13,796.633 SIDS.

267 00:28:13,796.633 --> 00:28:14,186.633 Right.

268 00:28:14,246.633 --> 00:28:23,336.633 And he does also talk about too, like when you bring your baby in your bed, knowing if unfortunately there, there is a lot that they are lost in sleep.

269 00:28:23,786.633 --> 00:28:31,166.633 If you know that research, if you know what SIDS is and you know your sleep environment is safe, you'll have to be at peace with it.

270 00:28:31,166.633 --> 00:28:31,176.633 Right.

271 00:28:32,666.633 --> 00:28:32,906.633 Yeah.

272 00:28:32,936.633 --> 00:28:35,186.633 Did I cover everything?

Yeah.

273 00:28:35,361.633 --> 00:28:35,651.633 Yeah.

274 00:28:35,656.633 --> 00:28:35,906.633 Yeah.

275 00:28:36,26.633 --> 00:28:36,476.633 Absolutely.

276 00:28:36,476.633 --> 00:28:39,146.633 I think that was a beautiful breakdown of kind of that debate.

277 00:28:39,146.633 --> 00:28:55,816.633 Now, again, controversial, but do you think the argument that vaccines lead to SIDS or any sort of infant death holds any sort of water?

I haven't done a deep dive enough in to really comment.

278 00:28:56,166.633 --> 00:28:57,876.633 Yeah, I, it's not my area.

279 00:28:57,961.633 --> 00:28:58,441.633 I don't, yeah.

280 00:28:58,441.633 --> 00:29:00,636.633 I don't have enough expertise there to say.

281 00:29:00,636.633 --> 00:29:03,156.633 So yeah, it often just gets thrown in with this.

282 00:29:03,216.633 --> 00:29:10,426.633 And I do think that the timing of things is peculiar, right?

And that there's validity in people asking these questions.

283 00:29:10,456.633 --> 00:29:18,96.633 And it's still just a big question on everyone's mind of how possible is this?

And I think it's something we're gonna have to continue.

284 00:29:18,96.633 --> 00:29:22,76.633 There's argument, there's, yeah there's research for and against and totally.

285 00:29:22,436.633 --> 00:29:23,636.633 It's not clear.

286 00:29:23,636.633 --> 00:29:41,161.633 I think it's, you know, among many things with babies and mothers under researched and a huge injustice that we have not had enough of our research dollars put into giving us peace of mind for these questions.

287 00:29:41,161.633 --> 00:29:43,566.633 Like we, we need it and we should demand it.

288 00:29:44,21.633 --> 00:29:45,11.633 Yeah, absolutely.

289 00:29:45,11.633 --> 00:29:45,971.633 Oh my gosh, I agree.

290 00:29:45,971.633 --> 00:30:19,61.633 And you know, just recognizing that like everything in motherhood, parenthood, pregnancy, birth, it's so individualized, right?

So for these big organizations to make blanket statements without any sort of nuance or any sort of guidance for pediatricians to have deeper conversations and be able to deliver individualized care to individual families, in my opinion, is an incredible disservice and injustice.

291 00:30:19,211.633 --> 00:30:29,171.633 And I do recognize for anyone at the AAP that's listening, being like, come on HeHe we're making recommendations for billions of people.

292 00:30:29,171.633 --> 00:30:30,251.633 I do understand that.

293 00:30:30,251.633 --> 00:30:30,881.633 I get it.

294 00:30:31,126.633 --> 00:30:32,386.633 I really do get that.

295 00:30:32,656.633 --> 00:30:40,96.633 But with that, and with our country being such a melting pot and having such vast.

296 00:30:40,651.633 --> 00:30:47,581.633 You know, Differences in education level and parenting skills and access to care.

297 00:30:47,941.633 --> 00:30:49,561.633 All of it plays into it.

298 00:30:49,561.633 --> 00:31:02,971.633 And I do believe that the AAP has a responsibility to support pediatricians in giving better individualized advice to individual families so that those families can be better supported in the decisions that they're making.

299 00:31:03,361.633 --> 00:31:03,721.633 Yes.

300 00:31:03,721.633 --> 00:31:06,151.633 It's very important and it will save lives.

301 00:31:06,301.633 --> 00:31:06,361.633 Yeah.

302 00:31:06,421.633 --> 00:31:15,121.633 So the United Kingdom has safe sleep guidance available in their public health policies.

303 00:31:15,401.633 --> 00:31:19,1.633 I know at least the province of British Columbia does in Canada.

304 00:31:19,301.633 --> 00:31:31,251.633 Where else UNICEF and Lullaby Trust do as well?

I think those are mostly UK based and a large part, and thanks to Helen Ball's Research and Helen Ball's guidance because.

305 00:31:32,1.633 --> 00:31:35,361.633 Safe bed sharing guidance, save lives.

306 00:31:35,391.633 --> 00:31:43,611.633 Because when your pediatrician and the AAP say, never put your baby in your bed, parents go to the couch.

307 00:31:44,91.633 --> 00:31:44,931.633 That's not a bed.

308 00:31:45,531.633 --> 00:31:47,901.633 They go to a recliner, also not a bed.

309 00:31:48,231.633 --> 00:31:54,471.633 And those two places are the most dangerous places to go with a baby for sleep.

310 00:31:55,761.633 --> 00:31:56,661.633 Absolute.

311 00:31:56,781.633 --> 00:31:58,41.633 You know, Terrify.

312 00:31:58,41.633 --> 00:32:00,171.633 It terrifies me that people do this.

313 00:32:00,411.633 --> 00:32:02,241.633 People in my own family have done it.

314 00:32:02,541.633 --> 00:32:14,211.633 It's just a very natural response to oh, I've been scared about the bed, so the only way and my baby's sleeping is on my chest or right beside me, so I guess we'll do it on the couch.

315 00:32:14,241.633 --> 00:32:16,791.633 They didn't say the couch, they didn't say a recliner.

316 00:32:17,421.633 --> 00:32:19,611.633 And that is where we lose babies.

317 00:32:20,241.633 --> 00:32:20,361.633 Yeah.

318 00:32:20,361.633 --> 00:32:21,351.633 That is where we lose babies.

319 00:32:21,351.633 --> 00:32:25,731.633 So you're right, we have to give people all of the information.

320 00:32:26,866.633 --> 00:32:35,386.633 And also just give people some credit that they can handle nuance and they can handle the safe sleep guidelines.

321 00:32:35,386.633 --> 00:32:45,16.633 I think that AAP used to have if for cultural or whatever, something else reasons you do bed share, use these guidelines.

322 00:32:45,16.633 --> 00:32:48,916.633 They used to have that, their previous version had that and they took it out in the newest one.

323 00:32:50,426.633 --> 00:32:55,286.633 So the hope is they go back just like, you know, the UK and parts of Canada have.

324 00:32:55,706.633 --> 00:33:00,366.633 Because again, we have to give this information to families.

325 00:33:00,636.633 --> 00:33:03,466.633 We have to, The bottom line is that people are doing it right.

326 00:33:03,466.633 --> 00:33:05,806.633 It's kind of like abstinence only education.

327 00:33:05,806.633 --> 00:33:06,46.633 Exactly.

328 00:33:06,46.633 --> 00:33:07,576.633 Like we know that doesn't work.

329 00:33:07,576.633 --> 00:33:08,686.633 We know that.

330 00:33:09,226.633 --> 00:33:10,876.633 Teenagers are having sex.

331 00:33:10,876.633 --> 00:33:16,906.633 So instead of teaching them abstinence only, we should teach them about safe sex practices.

332 00:33:16,906.633 --> 00:33:27,676.633 We should teach young females about menstruation and ovulation, and when they are at most risk of becoming pregnant, we should teach young males about ejaculation.

333 00:33:27,676.633 --> 00:33:29,656.633 And how that also plays into it.

334 00:33:29,656.633 --> 00:33:42,76.633 Like we, we have not only the money, the resources, the data, the science we have the outreach to actually disseminate this education to people.

335 00:33:42,76.633 --> 00:33:45,466.633 And our government act actively chooses not to.

336 00:33:45,466.633 --> 00:33:54,406.633 And I view safe sleep in the same way is that we actually do have the resources, we have the infrastructure, we have the money, we have the data, and the science.

337 00:33:55,246.633 --> 00:34:03,196.633 Why are we withholding this information from parents knowing that no matter how much we say, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

338 00:34:03,196.633 --> 00:34:04,636.633 They're still doing it.

339 00:34:04,636.633 --> 00:34:04,696.633 Yeah.

340 00:34:04,726.633 --> 00:34:11,476.633 We must provide them with a way to do it safely or we're never going to serve our families properly.

341 00:34:11,896.633 --> 00:34:12,136.633 Exactly.

342 00:34:12,136.633 --> 00:34:14,176.633 So I'm gonna get off my soapbox on that.

343 00:34:14,176.633 --> 00:34:15,376.633 I'm not trying to hammer a go.

344 00:34:15,376.633 --> 00:34:16,876.633 No, I wanna add one more thing too.

345 00:34:16,876.633 --> 00:34:17,116.633 Yeah, please.

346 00:34:17,116.633 --> 00:34:18,796.633 There's research behind it too.

347 00:34:18,796.633 --> 00:34:31,966.633 In, in studies that have been done, 60 to 70%, depending on like between US and Canada, it was like, I think 60 or 70 in both in either country are bringing a baby under six months into their bed.

348 00:34:31,996.633 --> 00:34:43,186.633 So the vast majority are, and the reason kind of ties into our opening of this interview, which is because we are mammals who have evolved to sleep close.

349 00:34:43,186.633 --> 00:34:43,246.633 Yeah.

350 00:34:44,236.633 --> 00:34:48,556.633 And so that biological drive is there and Right.

351 00:34:48,556.633 --> 00:34:51,316.633 Some babies with very easygoing temperaments.

352 00:34:51,631.633 --> 00:34:52,771.633 They'll sleep in the bassinet.

353 00:34:53,41.633 --> 00:34:53,401.633 Sure.

354 00:34:53,731.633 --> 00:34:58,531.633 That's probably that 30% who aren't bringing that baby in the bed in the first six months.

355 00:34:58,531.633 --> 00:34:58,831.633 Right.

356 00:34:59,71.633 --> 00:35:06,961.633 But all the babies I work with, and that's a specific population and you know that 60 to 70% they are needing it.

357 00:35:07,51.633 --> 00:35:10,771.633 Like they're needing it or their parents are up all night.

358 00:35:11,491.633 --> 00:35:15,331.633 You know, very, very, Very difficult for families.

359 00:35:15,331.633 --> 00:35:15,601.633 Yeah.

360 00:35:22,36.259 --> 00:35:24,106.259 Wanna know something absolutely disgusting.

361 00:35:24,136.259 --> 00:35:39,496.259 Did you know that most coffee on the market is filled with mold and toxins that can drain your energy and stress out your adrenals?

No wonder so many of us feel jittery, anxious, exhausted, and tearful after we have that little pick me up Coffee.

362 00:35:39,706.259 --> 00:35:59,956.259 Honestly, this is one of the biggest reasons that about six to eight months before I got pregnant, I switched to Purity Coffee, and I did a lot and I mean a lot of research on coffee brands to find the best one I landed on purity Coffee.

363 00:36:00,446.259 --> 00:36:04,916.259 Very confidently because it's third party tested and certified mold free.

364 00:36:05,6.259 --> 00:36:07,316.259 It's also regeneratively farmed.

365 00:36:07,376.259 --> 00:36:17,456.259 It's also pesticide free USDA certified organic and sustainably sourced, which means the people who are growing and picking your coffee are actually paid an actual.

366 00:36:17,531.259 --> 00:36:23,591.259 Living wage and they provide full traceability, which means you can check them on this.

367 00:36:23,771.259 --> 00:36:32,111.259 The other thing that I love is that when purity coffee is roasted, it's not burnt to a freaking crisp where you lose all the health benefits.

368 00:36:32,111.259 --> 00:36:39,821.259 And if you're like, well, what health benefits?

They're actually chlorogenic acids that are actually healthy for us.

369 00:36:39,821.259 --> 00:36:45,296.259 You know how you kind of find this?

Studies every now and then that are like, oh, a cup of coffee a day keeps the doctor away.

370 00:36:45,476.259 --> 00:36:48,536.259 Well, it's true, but it's not true for all coffees.

371 00:36:48,536.259 --> 00:36:54,506.259 It actually matters what kind of coffee you drink, and that's why I love Purity Coffee.

372 00:36:54,746.259 --> 00:37:06,506.259 I can tell you that within one week of switching from, let's call it Smar Mugs Coffee to Purity Coffee, I felt less anxious.

373 00:37:06,801.259 --> 00:37:08,841.259 I was more productive during the day.

374 00:37:08,961.259 --> 00:37:10,461.259 The brain fog went away.

375 00:37:10,521.259 --> 00:37:18,801.259 I slept better at night, and all those jitters that used to come in the early morning after I had my coffee were completely non-existent.

376 00:37:18,831.259 --> 00:37:22,671.259 Not to mention it genuinely tastes delicious.

377 00:37:22,761.259 --> 00:37:23,571.259 You guys know that.

378 00:37:23,571.259 --> 00:37:28,881.259 I would never, ever, ever share a product that I didn't really love and really use.

379 00:37:28,911.259 --> 00:37:33,531.259 Also, if you follow me on Instagram, you know that I tag them all the time because it is.

380 00:37:33,671.259 --> 00:37:37,511.259 Such great high quality coffee and it is delicious.

381 00:37:37,571.259 --> 00:37:39,941.259 Head to purity coffee.com 382 00:37:39,941.259 --> 00:37:47,681.259 and get your health focused coffee without compromise and you can use code hee he HEHE to save some money.

383 00:37:47,681.259 --> 00:37:52,451.259 And right now, between now and October 3rd, you can actually save.

384 00:37:52,696.259 --> 00:37:54,436.259 30% off.

385 00:37:54,526.259 --> 00:37:56,956.259 So head to purity coffee.com 386 00:37:57,46.259 --> 00:38:00,76.259 and use code hehe at checkout to save some money.

387 00:38:00,256.259 --> 00:38:03,496.259 Oh, and if you're looking for what I drink, I love the ease.

388 00:38:03,526.259 --> 00:38:04,366.259 It's my favorite.

389 00:38:04,366.259 --> 00:38:06,16.259 I drink it every single day.

390 00:38:06,46.259 --> 00:38:10,426.259 And I also have flow for the days that I feel like I might not necessarily need a.

391 00:38:10,476.259 --> 00:38:11,766.259 Whole dark roast.

392 00:38:11,856.259 --> 00:38:24,6.259 Oh, and one other thing, not only do they have whole bean coffee that you can grind up and use in a regular coffee pot, but they also have pods too, which is what I use in my cure egg every single morning.

393 00:38:24,126.259 --> 00:38:24,876.259 One more time.

394 00:38:24,876.259 --> 00:38:26,856.259 Head to purity coffee.com.

395 00:38:26,976.259 --> 00:38:30,1.259 Use co he he at checkout, that's he e.

396 00:38:30,306.259 --> 00:38:36,996.259 And get your best coffee now that's completely mold free and actually gonna help you have health benefits.

397 00:38:37,86.259 --> 00:38:37,806.259 Cheers.

398 00:38:43,660.4768367 --> 00:38:48,610.4768367 Okay, so let's dive into those babies that are up all night and they just literally will not sleep.

399 00:38:48,610.4768367 --> 00:38:50,170.4768367 I'm talking like naps.

400 00:38:50,170.4768367 --> 00:38:52,660.4768367 They won't take longer than 20 or 30 minute naps.

401 00:38:52,660.4768367 --> 00:38:55,810.4768367 They are up multiple times a night.

402 00:38:55,850.4768367 --> 00:39:02,600.4768367 My instincts and my background lends me to thinking that this is an overtired baby.

403 00:39:02,600.4768367 --> 00:39:10,505.4768367 That we haven't really set up this baby to be able to regulate themselves to get long stretches at night.

404 00:39:10,505.4768367 --> 00:39:16,985.4768367 And I'm not talking about a six week old baby that's sleeping 12 hours at night, that's unrealistic.

405 00:39:17,35.4768367 --> 00:39:35,815.4768367 But when we look at appropriate age based sleep and these babies still are not doing it, what advice do you have for those parents and what are some of the possible things that are maybe going on?

Yeah, these are the babies I see in my consulting practice all the time.

406 00:39:35,815.4768367 --> 00:39:37,285.4768367 Parents who are really struggling.

407 00:39:38,155.4768367 --> 00:39:55,585.4768367 A lot of what's going on is a battle between, so the parent does wanna take a nurturing path with their baby, but they're still living in this world that has all of this sleep training dogma, kind of just like infiltrating everything.

408 00:39:55,885.4768367 --> 00:40:01,405.4768367 So a lot of times they are following some of the sleep training stuff, but they're not leaving the babies to cry.

409 00:40:01,885.4768367 --> 00:40:06,175.4768367 And when you put that together there's a lot of problems.

410 00:40:07,905.4768367 --> 00:40:08,235.4768367 Yeah.

411 00:40:08,385.4768367 --> 00:40:08,655.4768367 Yeah.

412 00:40:08,655.4768367 --> 00:40:09,195.4768367 A lot of problems.

413 00:40:09,195.4768367 --> 00:40:15,915.4768367 The biggest one is there's all these sleep routines and sleep schedules out there.

414 00:40:16,875.4768367 --> 00:40:23,295.4768367 And so some babies, like you said, prob could be very much overtired and they also might be under tired.

415 00:40:23,445.4768367 --> 00:40:32,915.4768367 So a parent's okay, this chart, my baby's three months, this chart says they should be sleeping at 9:00 AM 11:00 AM 1:00 PM, 2:00 PM whatever it is.

416 00:40:33,125.4768367 --> 00:40:34,595.4768367 And so they try that.

417 00:40:34,865.4768367 --> 00:40:40,985.4768367 It doesn't work 'cause baby's either under tired, overtired, or just it's not their natural rhythm.

418 00:40:41,435.4768367 --> 00:41:02,265.4768367 And that can snowball into issues at night, right?

Because babies do need, in order for their nighttime sleep to be optimal, they do need to have these regular naps throughout the day that are rejuvenating them and breaking their sleep pressure and cleaning out their brain of waste product and building their memories and sleep's so important.

419 00:41:02,455.4768367 --> 00:41:03,115.4768367 So important.

420 00:41:04,15.4768367 --> 00:41:07,135.4768367 So the schedules, the full schedules are a huge one.

421 00:41:07,675.4768367 --> 00:41:11,765.4768367 And so my recommendation is to be following your baby.

422 00:41:12,65.4768367 --> 00:41:14,855.4768367 Do not follow someone else's schedule.

423 00:41:15,185.4768367 --> 00:41:24,145.4768367 And you might not even follow your baby's schedule from the day before, because especially in the early months and weeks they're a different baby every day.

424 00:41:24,355.4768367 --> 00:41:34,115.4768367 And there's a huge range of temperament too, where some are very regular and will nap exactly at the same time, and others are not at all regular.

425 00:41:34,115.4768367 --> 00:41:41,145.4768367 And you just need to be in tune with them and see when they're starting to get a little sleepy and offer them that sleep they need.

426 00:41:41,655.4768367 --> 00:41:41,775.4768367 Yeah.

427 00:41:41,775.4768367 --> 00:41:52,935.4768367 And that's really hard for adults who thrive on consistency and routine and, they're sitting here thinking, oh, Dr.

428 00:41:52,935.4768367 --> 00:41:55,215.4768367 Greer, that ain't never gonna work for me.

429 00:41:55,305.4768367 --> 00:41:55,695.4768367 Yeah.

430 00:41:55,725.4768367 --> 00:42:03,130.4768367 What do you have to say to those parents?

Yeah, so the first is welcome to having a baby.

431 00:42:05,980.4768367 --> 00:42:10,750.4768367 Babies, I work with a lot of moms who are perfectionists type A.

432 00:42:10,750.4768367 --> 00:42:12,370.4768367 They do want everything planned.

433 00:42:12,370.4768367 --> 00:42:13,660.4768367 They wanna know what to expect.

434 00:42:13,660.4768367 --> 00:42:16,190.4768367 They want, everything scheduled and detailed.

435 00:42:16,640.4768367 --> 00:42:20,240.4768367 And a baby will take that plan and shred it.

436 00:42:20,360.4768367 --> 00:42:25,520.4768367 A lot of times, unless you do, like I said, there are some babies who are just super easygoing.

437 00:42:25,520.4768367 --> 00:42:27,230.4768367 They'll go with the flow and just go with it.

438 00:42:27,600.4768367 --> 00:42:28,710.4768367 But the many won't.

439 00:42:28,800.4768367 --> 00:42:37,680.4768367 And so you do is a huge challenge for you to actually really grow as a person, really grow your presence, really grow your flexibility.

440 00:42:38,130.4768367 --> 00:42:46,160.4768367 And just because you're not gonna have, a schedule down to the minute, you can still have routines in your day.

441 00:42:46,160.4768367 --> 00:42:48,380.4768367 And babies actually do very well with routines.

442 00:42:49,550.4768367 --> 00:42:54,150.4768367 So you can say, my baby not, might not wake up at exactly 7:00 AM every morning.

443 00:42:54,150.4768367 --> 00:42:55,870.4768367 Maybe some days it's 6:30.

444 00:42:55,890.4768367 --> 00:42:57,120.4768367 Some days it's eight.

445 00:42:57,640.4768367 --> 00:43:00,670.4768367 And, but when they do wake up, we have a routine.

446 00:43:01,270.4768367 --> 00:43:07,690.4768367 We go outside, we have some breakfast, we go for a walk, we go do this, we go do that.

447 00:43:07,990.4768367 --> 00:43:11,380.4768367 And then when I see my baby's ready for a nap, we have another routine.

448 00:43:11,380.4768367 --> 00:43:13,900.4768367 We have our nap routine, and we have our lunch routine.

449 00:43:13,900.4768367 --> 00:43:15,10.4768367 Right?

And things like that.

450 00:43:15,10.4768367 --> 00:43:21,360.4768367 So I try to help people, learn to let go of needing that predictability.

451 00:43:21,730.4768367 --> 00:43:26,530.4768367 You've got a long life with that baby and there's a lot of things that are not gonna be predictable.

452 00:43:26,740.4768367 --> 00:43:31,130.4768367 And while we might have gotten away with that as kind of a controlling perfectionist.

453 00:43:32,225.4768367 --> 00:43:34,415.4768367 Coping mechanism, pre-child.

454 00:43:34,845.4768367 --> 00:43:41,925.4768367 We will see that once you have your baby, none of those, any coping mechanism that you have for life is, it's gone.

455 00:43:41,985.4768367 --> 00:43:49,995.4768367 You actually have to really come back to humanity, really come back to the core of who you are and what you need and what you feel.

456 00:43:50,325.4768367 --> 00:44:01,865.4768367 And have real ways to handle your emotions and your feelings and not be using, some of these kinds of things that you could use before.

457 00:44:02,795.4768367 --> 00:44:03,125.4768367 Right.

458 00:44:03,725.4768367 --> 00:44:03,875.4768367 It.

459 00:44:04,730.4768367 --> 00:44:44,310.4768367 You dipped your toes into kind of nervous system regulation and emotional regulation, and I'd love for you to just kind of like brain dump on the association between nervous system and emotional regulation and newborn sleep, not only ours as adults and how it impacts baby's sleep, but how is our nervous res regulation or lack thereof impacting our child's nervous system and their emotional regulation?

Yeah, it's a heavy topic.

460 00:44:45,210.4768367 --> 00:44:54,690.4768367 And to be taken as like a seed of learning, right?

It's it's something that you just, I'm still learning this, right?

My, I have a 7-year-old little boy.

461 00:44:55,50.4768367 --> 00:44:59,850.4768367 So your nervous system is one and the same with your babies.

462 00:45:01,980.4768367 --> 00:45:08,470.4768367 You, it's, you essentially are one unit, one biological unit that goes for pregnancy.

463 00:45:09,10.4768367 --> 00:45:19,110.4768367 And when you're pregnant you wanna be, doing what you can to regulate not avoiding stress in any place, 'cause life stress and that's okay.

464 00:45:19,540.4768367 --> 00:45:21,730.4768367 Really taking care of it when it comes up.

465 00:45:22,120.4768367 --> 00:45:28,770.4768367 And, seeking out practices that are going to be good for your nervous system at all times.

466 00:45:28,770.4768367 --> 00:45:29,40.4768367 Right.

467 00:45:29,40.4768367 --> 00:45:35,455.4768367 As a mom through pregnancy and beyond, because then yeah, also when your baby's born, you are separate.

468 00:45:35,455.4768367 --> 00:45:40,255.4768367 The cord is cut, but you still are one nervous system.

469 00:45:40,255.4768367 --> 00:45:48,505.4768367 Your baby is always attuning to you, they are referencing you.

470 00:45:48,865.4768367 --> 00:45:59,295.4768367 And so when you are in a heightened nervous system state, when you're stressed when you're happy, when you're sad your baby experiences that as well.

471 00:45:59,955.4768367 --> 00:46:01,35.4768367 They're very much connected.

472 00:46:02,445.4768367 --> 00:46:11,225.4768367 And so yeah, if we're feeling a lot of uncontrolled unmanaged stress, anxiety our babies will feel it too.

473 00:46:11,855.4768367 --> 00:46:20,825.4768367 But there's al there's so many things we can do when that comes up, because I'll also say all moms feel stress, anxiety, and like it's unmanageable.

474 00:46:21,715.4768367 --> 00:46:28,555.4768367 We used to have a much bigger circle of care around us when we were pregnant.

475 00:46:28,555.4768367 --> 00:46:29,725.4768367 We used to be mothered.

476 00:46:29,755.4768367 --> 00:46:30,895.4768367 The mother was mothered.

477 00:46:31,945.4768367 --> 00:46:35,695.4768367 And sadly, it's missing for a lot of people now.

478 00:46:36,325.4768367 --> 00:46:39,105.4768367 And the modern mom does have a lot.

479 00:46:39,165.4768367 --> 00:46:50,360.4768367 And so I will say we do have to build that for her as much as possible because her nervous system care, her wellness is directly related to baby's.

480 00:46:51,250.4768367 --> 00:47:01,840.4768367 And what kind of things can moms do in pregnancy and maybe in those first six months postpartum to regulate their nervous system.

481 00:47:01,840.4768367 --> 00:47:05,320.4768367 And you're gonna have more time in pregnancy, especially if it's your first Yeah.

482 00:47:05,320.4768367 --> 00:47:10,930.4768367 And you don't have a toddler that you're chasing around and you don't have other children that you're trying to care for.

483 00:47:11,230.4768367 --> 00:47:15,460.4768367 Whereas immediately postpartum your time is gonna be limited.

484 00:47:15,460.4768367 --> 00:47:19,960.4768367 You will have very little time without your baby present.

485 00:47:19,960.4768367 --> 00:47:22,450.4768367 You will have other demands.

486 00:47:22,450.4768367 --> 00:47:30,790.4768367 Mental health comes into play, not that it doesn't in pregnancy, but oftentimes it's much more at play in postpartum.

487 00:47:31,255.4768367 --> 00:47:32,485.4768367 Yeah, completely.

488 00:47:32,935.4768367 --> 00:47:39,155.4768367 So there's so many little things that we can do in pregnancy, like you said.

489 00:47:39,155.4768367 --> 00:47:39,335.4768367 Yeah.

490 00:47:39,335.4768367 --> 00:47:45,260.4768367 We do have that luxury that we still have freedom, which goes away quite a bit when the baby comes.

491 00:47:46,210.4768367 --> 00:47:46,700.4768367 Warning.

492 00:47:48,265.4768367 --> 00:47:58,565.4768367 There's a long time where you are, like I said, you are one with your baby, and we do wanna support you to have the moments to yourself, but they will be small, shorter, and fewer.

493 00:47:58,965.4768367 --> 00:48:01,695.4768367 So yeah, in pregnancy you can do I always will start with someone.

494 00:48:01,695.4768367 --> 00:48:02,865.4768367 It's very individual.

495 00:48:02,865.4768367 --> 00:48:14,285.4768367 Start with what do you already do?

What do you already do?

Or what are you already interested in?

That could be relaxing because, mindfulness is of course a huge thing that really helps.

496 00:48:14,285.4768367 --> 00:48:18,365.4768367 But there's so many ways you can sit and, sit and breathe.

497 00:48:18,395.4768367 --> 00:48:32,945.4768367 You can do body scans, you can do a walking meditation, you can do an eating meditation, you can look at a plant and practice mindfulness, you can do yoga, all kinds of things, right?

Those are kind of like the practices people have.

498 00:48:32,945.4768367 --> 00:48:37,115.4768367 And then there's like the micro, I say like micro moments of regulation.

499 00:48:37,835.4768367 --> 00:48:47,645.4768367 And those can look like just noticing when you're tense, noticing when the stress is there and maybe, and again, choose your own adventure.

500 00:48:47,645.4768367 --> 00:48:51,725.4768367 There's so many ways you can turn on a song and do a little dance.

501 00:48:51,725.4768367 --> 00:48:54,815.4768367 You can like hug yourself and close your eyes.

502 00:48:54,815.4768367 --> 00:49:00,245.4768367 You can just flip your attention inward and breathe and notice your body.

503 00:49:00,635.4768367 --> 00:49:01,985.4768367 You can.

504 00:49:03,125.4768367 --> 00:49:06,575.4768367 Call your best friend and be like, this is how I'm feeling right now.

505 00:49:07,55.4768367 --> 00:49:09,935.4768367 And have your friend just say, oh I'm I'm so here for you.

506 00:49:10,205.4768367 --> 00:49:10,955.4768367 I'm here for this.

507 00:49:10,955.4768367 --> 00:49:13,205.4768367 Right?

Have that social support.

508 00:49:13,565.4768367 --> 00:49:18,785.4768367 So important for moms and I call them, I like to call them for an individual mom.

509 00:49:18,785.4768367 --> 00:49:34,55.4768367 Whatever is gonna help her take it, right?

So it's take your little brain breaks through the day, take your stress, breaks through the day, make sure you're just for 30 seconds, maybe just closing your eyes and breathing, and when baby's there, maybe they're feeding while you do that.

510 00:49:34,175.4768367 --> 00:49:36,275.4768367 Maybe they're falling asleep beside you.

511 00:49:36,455.4768367 --> 00:49:38,225.4768367 Maybe you have them in a carrier.

512 00:49:38,285.4768367 --> 00:49:39,925.4768367 And you do it that way.

513 00:49:40,525.4768367 --> 00:49:42,55.4768367 It is a mindset thing.

514 00:49:42,85.4768367 --> 00:49:49,735.4768367 'cause you do get, those moments are there, you just have to clue in, intentionally carve them out.

515 00:49:49,735.4768367 --> 00:49:54,775.4768367 And you guys, I'm always telling you what, what works for me?

Which doesn't mean it'll work for you, but I just wanna.

516 00:49:55,540.4768367 --> 00:50:05,610.4768367 I always wanna level set with you that I am on this side of the microphone and I understand that you're on that side of the earbuds, but I'm just a regular girl like you.

517 00:50:05,610.4768367 --> 00:50:12,210.4768367 So a couple of things that have worked for me in pregnancy is every morning and every night I take just a few minutes.

518 00:50:12,210.4768367 --> 00:50:13,920.4768367 Sometimes it's 90 seconds.

519 00:50:13,925.4768367 --> 00:50:21,490.4768367 If I'm trying to, I've got a busy morning, I woke up late or I hit snooze one too many times 'cause I do that a lot.

520 00:50:21,740.4768367 --> 00:50:27,230.4768367 And then sometimes it's 10 or 15 minutes where I just have the time to relax.

521 00:50:27,230.4768367 --> 00:50:37,10.4768367 But I connect with this baby and I talk to them and I put my hands on my belly and I'm taking deep breaths and I'm visualizing throughout the day for me.

522 00:50:37,10.4768367 --> 00:50:41,300.4768367 I really notice when my jaw is clenching and I will unc unclench my jaw.

523 00:50:41,300.4768367 --> 00:50:42,920.4768367 I will unc unclench my pelvic floor.

524 00:50:43,190.4768367 --> 00:50:45,80.4768367 I'll take a deep breath and.

525 00:50:46,85.4768367 --> 00:50:50,525.4768367 I usually let out some sort of audible sound, so mine would sound like this.

526 00:50:50,575.4768367 --> 00:50:56,145.4768367 And my husband has had to be conditioned to not say what's wrong?

And I'm like, nothing.

527 00:50:56,145.4768367 --> 00:50:57,375.4768367 I'm just resetting.

528 00:50:57,375.4768367 --> 00:51:01,365.4768367 This is just me like resetting my nervous system.

529 00:51:01,365.4768367 --> 00:51:03,765.4768367 Nothing is wrong per se.

530 00:51:04,65.4768367 --> 00:51:15,645.4768367 I just needed a little bit of a release and so I wanna encourage you that sometimes when we talk about self-care and we talk about regulating our nervous systems, it can feel so daunting.

531 00:51:15,675.4768367 --> 00:51:21,525.4768367 'cause you're like, I literally don't have 30 minutes to sit down and do a meditation.

532 00:51:21,525.4768367 --> 00:51:27,945.4768367 I do not have 30 minutes that I can grab a journal and write out my thoughts.

533 00:51:27,945.4768367 --> 00:51:29,715.4768367 I am a busy mom of four.

534 00:51:29,715.4768367 --> 00:51:33,645.4768367 I barely have 90 seconds to pee by myself.

535 00:51:33,645.4768367 --> 00:51:36,340.4768367 And a lot of times there are fingers reaching under the doors.

536 00:51:36,585.4768367 --> 00:51:37,605.4768367 I see you.

537 00:51:37,935.4768367 --> 00:51:38,355.4768367 Okay.

538 00:51:38,355.4768367 --> 00:51:39,190.4768367 You totally.

539 00:51:39,820.4768367 --> 00:51:44,680.4768367 I see you, you are here and you are seen for sure.

540 00:51:44,680.4768367 --> 00:51:56,560.4768367 So it can be something that is easily incorporated while you are showering or you are driving, or you are cooking, or you're folding laundry, or you are bouncing that baby to sleep at night.

541 00:51:56,560.4768367 --> 00:52:08,620.4768367 So I don't want you to be turned off to the idea of your own self-care and emotional regulation because it feels like too much to fit into your schedule.

542 00:52:08,920.4768367 --> 00:52:16,270.4768367 Find things that naturally fit into your schedule and are not gonna take away extra time during the day.

543 00:52:16,300.4768367 --> 00:52:19,875.4768367 'cause I do understand wholeheartedly how mm-hmm.

544 00:52:20,495.4768367 --> 00:52:21,670.4768367 how much that feels.

545 00:52:21,670.4768367 --> 00:52:24,490.4768367 Just like extra burden and extra mental load.

546 00:52:24,490.4768367 --> 00:52:27,850.4768367 And I certainly, I wanna do the opposite for you for sure.

547 00:52:28,270.4768367 --> 00:52:28,450.4768367 Okay.

548 00:52:28,870.4768367 --> 00:52:29,215.4768367 Dr.

549 00:52:29,215.4768367 --> 00:52:38,350.4768367 Greer, what about parents who have been sold this lie?

And I say it very specifically and intentionally that way because.

550 00:52:39,520.4768367 --> 00:52:44,350.4768367 This is a made up lie that is told to parents.

551 00:52:44,350.4768367 --> 00:53:03,755.4768367 I do not ever believe that parents just naturally instinctually believe this, but the idea that we can create bad habits in tiny babies now is the idea of repetitive behavior a thing For sure.

552 00:53:03,815.4768367 --> 00:53:04,475.4768367 Absolutely.

553 00:53:04,475.4768367 --> 00:53:13,775.4768367 I'm not saying that we can't do something so long that our children then begin to have these behaviors be, you know, kind of there.

554 00:53:14,15.4768367 --> 00:53:25,565.4768367 But in tiny, tiny babies, the idea of creating bad habits or your newborn is manipulating you, just like really vicious and harmful lies that parents are sold.

555 00:53:25,865.4768367 --> 00:53:27,335.4768367 Help us understand that.

556 00:53:27,335.4768367 --> 00:53:30,215.4768367 What comes to mind when I say those things?

Mm-hmm.

557 00:53:30,545.4768367 --> 00:53:32,135.4768367 Well, It breaks my heart, first of all.

558 00:53:32,135.4768367 --> 00:53:32,405.4768367 Yeah.

559 00:53:32,405.4768367 --> 00:53:34,565.4768367 It's makes me so, so deeply sad.

560 00:53:35,105.4768367 --> 00:53:40,415.4768367 Because it is an attack on a baby's primary needs.

561 00:53:40,475.4768367 --> 00:53:40,655.4768367 Mm-hmm.

562 00:53:40,955.4768367 --> 00:53:53,885.4768367 To, you know, so it's really, it makes me very sad to know there are so many babies who aren't being nurtured in the way that they need it because of these lies.

563 00:53:54,905.4768367 --> 00:54:00,125.4768367 Um, And it's important for parents to know that yes, they are.

564 00:54:00,995.4768367 --> 00:54:08,415.4768367 It's I imagine it them as like this, the baby is like reaching out for what it needs, and the parent, you know, kind of wants it.

565 00:54:08,415.4768367 --> 00:54:12,825.4768367 And then this like barrier gets slammed between them, right.

566 00:54:12,825.4768367 --> 00:54:15,855.4768367 And it's, it's, they're so harmful, these things.

567 00:54:15,855.4768367 --> 00:54:20,625.4768367 So no, you cannot, feeding your baby to sleep is nature's design.

568 00:54:21,595.4768367 --> 00:54:26,790.4768367 Do a little bit of reading again, Sarah Awell Smith's book is really good on this.

569 00:54:26,790.4768367 --> 00:54:34,320.4768367 Talks about a lot of the contents of breast milk that are sleep inducing for babies and moms.

570 00:54:34,320.4768367 --> 00:54:40,490.4768367 And that's why bed sharing and, is also gets moms the most sleep, way more sleep.

571 00:54:41,60.4768367 --> 00:54:56,315.4768367 And so why, why are there sleepy components in milk if it's not made to help babies fall asleep?

Why the sucking, the sucking behavior of babies is also deeply regulating and deeply, res, lulling them to sleep in so many ways.

572 00:54:56,315.4768367 --> 00:55:02,945.4768367 Some people describe it as when they're nursing, it's like an internal massage and their entire body is like being massaged and soothe.

573 00:55:03,905.4768367 --> 00:55:07,175.4768367 So that's a normal human behavior.

574 00:55:07,550.4768367 --> 00:55:12,380.4768367 That is there to make your parenting journey easy.

575 00:55:13,460.4768367 --> 00:55:16,640.4768367 And I dare I say, very enjoyable.

576 00:55:16,640.4768367 --> 00:55:28,610.4768367 Like also all the moms I work with will say that's one of, that was my superpower and that was, that I will treasure those memories for my entire life of feeding my baby to sleep and helping my baby to sleep.

577 00:55:28,610.4768367 --> 00:55:32,510.4768367 So feeding them to sleep, rocking them to sleep.

578 00:55:32,880.4768367 --> 00:55:35,460.4768367 These are some of the things that are like supposed to be bad habits.

579 00:55:35,610.4768367 --> 00:55:39,0.4768367 Laying with them while they fall asleep is supposed to be a bad habit.

580 00:55:39,270.4768367 --> 00:55:54,30.4768367 I will tell you as a mom and also someone who's worked with so many people, n they all go away when they're supposed to go away, when they, when the baby is finished, this period, this specific period of development, everything is a season.

581 00:55:54,420.4768367 --> 00:55:56,670.4768367 So they will not be feeding to sleep forever.

582 00:55:56,670.4768367 --> 00:55:58,980.4768367 They will not be needing to rock your sleep forever, sometimes.

583 00:55:59,680.4768367 --> 00:56:07,360.4768367 That's one way I work with people is helping them move away from rocking to sleep, for example, because baby's gotten so heavy and it's no problem.

584 00:56:07,780.4768367 --> 00:56:19,20.4768367 You just, there's a, there's another way that we'll try and it's all good, right?

There's no bad habit or bad decision or one I say there's also, there's no one way street in parenting for anything.

585 00:56:19,320.4768367 --> 00:56:20,820.4768367 You can always change.

586 00:56:20,820.4768367 --> 00:56:23,510.4768367 We're talking about people here, right?

Yeah.

587 00:56:23,570.4768367 --> 00:56:26,630.4768367 Are those the big one?

Are those the big, bad habits?

I don't know.

588 00:56:26,750.4768367 --> 00:56:27,620.4768367 There's other ones too.

589 00:56:27,620.4768367 --> 00:56:39,700.4768367 Probably helping them every time they cry, right?

Helping a baby, every time they cry, helping them when they're dysregulated is building their nervous system to be strong and able to handle things later.

590 00:56:40,100.4768367 --> 00:56:41,330.4768367 So it's actually the opposite.

591 00:56:42,210.4768367 --> 00:56:45,570.4768367 If you ignore them, they're gonna have a lot of trouble later.

592 00:56:45,910.4768367 --> 00:56:47,410.4768367 So against people.

593 00:56:47,785.4768367 --> 00:56:57,235.4768367 Are you suggesting that maybe the cry it out method is in fact harmful because we're not responding to our babies?

Yeah.

594 00:56:57,235.4768367 --> 00:56:58,765.4768367 I'm deeply concerned about that.

595 00:56:58,765.4768367 --> 00:57:08,895.4768367 It's like the, I think if we weren't leaving babies to cry it out, we would have a very different mental health mm-hmm.

596 00:57:09,375.4768367 --> 00:57:10,935.4768367 Situation on our hands right now.

597 00:57:10,965.4768367 --> 00:57:15,865.4768367 I think it's, I can't prove it that, I don't have that knockout study.

598 00:57:15,895.4768367 --> 00:57:22,175.4768367 We have, hundreds and maybe thousands of studies that suggest it because of how stressed shapes the developing brain.

599 00:57:22,685.4768367 --> 00:57:30,465.4768367 But that is what I believe, but cannot prove that sleep training is a source of a huge amount of mental health issues.

600 00:57:30,675.4768367 --> 00:57:32,235.4768367 I deeply believe that too.

601 00:57:32,265.4768367 --> 00:57:32,565.4768367 Okay.

602 00:57:32,565.4768367 --> 00:57:34,365.4768367 Tell us about what those studies show.

603 00:57:34,365.4768367 --> 00:57:37,935.4768367 So we, when we look at babies who are left to cry it out.

604 00:57:38,640.4768367 --> 00:57:45,450.4768367 We see that their brains literally physically change in not a good way.

605 00:57:45,780.4768367 --> 00:57:45,790.4768367 Yeah.

606 00:57:46,80.4768367 --> 00:57:46,380.4768367 Yeah.

607 00:57:46,380.4768367 --> 00:58:13,10.4768367 So the emotional systems in the baby's brain are all rapidly developing in this first three years of life and are about 50% genetics and 50% experience guided by 50%, 50% in terms of all levels of neuroscience, right?

Molecular, cellular circuits, circuitry and sort of macro anatomy as well.

608 00:58:13,60.4768367 --> 00:58:28,60.4768367 We really want to give babies very specific experiences from zero to three, very responsive and nurturing experiences, because when we do all of those emotional systems, so all those systems, I call them emotional systems, they're the ones that.

609 00:58:28,735.4768367 --> 00:58:32,95.4768367 Are the parts of our brain that make up our mental health.

610 00:58:32,665.4768367 --> 00:58:38,995.4768367 So the amygdala, hippocampus, hypothalamus, prefrontal cortex are the big ones.

611 00:58:39,395.4768367 --> 00:58:40,505.4768367 There's many others as well.

612 00:58:40,505.4768367 --> 00:58:45,395.4768367 There's all the neurotransmitter systems, our serotonin, our norepinephrine, our dopamine.

613 00:58:45,575.4768367 --> 00:58:48,125.4768367 These are also all developing and these early years.

614 00:58:48,695.4768367 --> 00:59:11,385.4768367 And so what studies showed is when there's animal studies and there's human studies in both realms of study when developing brains experience high levels of stress, we're actually shaping those brain areas I listed towards high reactivity and towards vulnerability to mental health issues.

615 00:59:11,385.4768367 --> 00:59:15,675.4768367 And we haven't, we do not have any study of safety for sleep training.

616 00:59:15,675.4768367 --> 00:59:17,445.4768367 Again, all humans are different.

617 00:59:17,445.4768367 --> 00:59:21,885.4768367 They're all gonna have different experiences under the same condition or similar conditions.

618 00:59:22,455.4768367 --> 00:59:28,245.4768367 And we don't have the study that actually looks at what a baby is experiencing during sleep training.

619 00:59:28,395.4768367 --> 00:59:30,735.4768367 We don't know what their stress levels look like.

620 00:59:31,275.4768367 --> 00:59:42,975.4768367 We do know that they cry, vomit, have diarrhea, bang their heads, pull out their hair, chew their cribs, all signs of extremely high distress.

621 00:59:43,755.4768367 --> 00:59:52,205.4768367 So we can guess that they're experiencing intolerable stress during those things, during that time.

622 00:59:52,205.4768367 --> 00:59:55,945.4768367 And putting all that together makes me very concerned about it.

623 00:59:57,340.4768367 --> 01:00:03,710.4768367 It pains me to even think about any child experiencing that much less my own child.

624 01:00:03,740.4768367 --> 01:00:15,50.4768367 I just could not imagine standing outside of my child's room, watching them on a monitor, experience that stuff and not immediately going in.

625 01:00:15,50.4768367 --> 01:00:20,330.4768367 I would just, that would never work for my personality, for my own nervous system.

626 01:00:20,330.4768367 --> 01:00:21,230.4768367 I would be like, forget it.

627 01:00:21,280.4768367 --> 01:00:25,510.4768367 I, as a person, as a human, as a mom, cannot take this.

628 01:00:25,510.4768367 --> 01:00:35,590.4768367 So regardless of whether this is the quote unquote right choice or what the professionals told me, or somebody told me it was my only way, I would never be able to do it.

629 01:00:35,590.4768367 --> 01:00:38,920.4768367 I would just say that's, it's just not an option for me.

630 01:00:39,370.4768367 --> 01:00:47,620.4768367 Yeah, and luckily now there is a whole world of support for parents who are not sleep training, but that's pretty new.

631 01:00:48,130.4768367 --> 01:00:49,30.4768367 Yeah, it's pretty new.

632 01:00:49,30.4768367 --> 01:00:51,400.4768367 People had to hide it or.

633 01:00:52,15.4768367 --> 01:00:57,775.4768367 And not get support because we can also optimize baby sleep without sleep training.

634 01:00:58,115.4768367 --> 01:00:58,265.4768367 Yeah.

635 01:00:58,265.4768367 --> 01:00:58,385.4768367 Right.

636 01:00:58,385.4768367 --> 01:01:15,605.4768367 So that's important that there's support and to also say to parents who have sleep trained who may be listening or know people who have as well, it's for most parents, like you said it's outlined to them as the only way they're told massive lies.

637 01:01:15,605.4768367 --> 01:01:18,425.4768367 That if you don't do this, you're harming your baby.

638 01:01:18,875.4768367 --> 01:01:22,445.4768367 You'll, your baby will never sleep, ever if you don't do this.

639 01:01:22,755.4768367 --> 01:01:27,365.4768367 So this is a good thing you're doing for your baby, right?

So people are sold all of this.

640 01:01:27,815.4768367 --> 01:01:33,975.4768367 A lot of times moms have to go to a hotel, leave, hire someone else to do it.

641 01:01:34,85.4768367 --> 01:01:39,975.4768367 Sometimes dads do it because they're not as connected especially in the early months.

642 01:01:40,55.4768367 --> 01:01:42,215.4768367 It's really hard and I, you know.

643 01:01:42,950.4768367 --> 01:01:54,170.4768367 Saying out there, my concerns about the baby's mental health in it, I'm also really concerned about mom, dad, siblings, mental health to see another human being treated like this in their home.

644 01:01:55,130.4768367 --> 01:01:55,460.4768367 Right.

645 01:01:55,460.4768367 --> 01:02:00,800.4768367 And so moms are told a lot, some moms, even with postpartum depression, are told, oh, your answer's sleep training.

646 01:02:02,60.4768367 --> 01:02:09,650.4768367 And so you imagine, what are we doing to the baby and are we helping her there?

Right.

647 01:02:09,650.4768367 --> 01:02:15,20.4768367 Like it's moms and babies need to be close, and that's where health comes from.

648 01:02:15,410.4768367 --> 01:02:15,920.4768367 Yeah.

649 01:02:16,280.4768367 --> 01:02:16,910.4768367 Oh my gosh.

650 01:02:17,280.4768367 --> 01:02:30,600.4768367 Such an interesting study would be to look at, I guess I'm thinking school shooters just because it's so prevalent in our country right now, but anyone who carries out like public violence like that.

651 01:02:31,485.4768367 --> 01:02:59,570.4768367 What type of bond and attachment do they have to their parents and were they subject to sleep training?

Were they subject to cry it out?

Were they subject to out of home daycare?

Were they subject to these things that we know, dissect that, or sever that bond between a mother and a child?

And I say that without any judgment.

652 01:02:59,570.4768367 --> 01:03:02,480.4768367 So anyone who's listening that's thinking okay, I didn't have any, I have a choice.

653 01:03:02,480.4768367 --> 01:03:03,290.4768367 I hear you.

654 01:03:03,345.4768367 --> 01:03:04,95.4768367 I totally hear you.

655 01:03:04,95.4768367 --> 01:03:11,565.4768367 This country is not set up to support mothers and babies, and it certainly doesn't pay any attention to bonding or attachment or any of that.

656 01:03:11,565.4768367 --> 01:03:15,735.4768367 We could not care less that you have to go back after two weeks of having a baby.

657 01:03:15,735.4768367 --> 01:03:25,245.4768367 That is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard in my life, that we just do not value the mother baby dyad in the least of this country.

658 01:03:25,245.4768367 --> 01:03:27,555.4768367 So I do recognize it is not your fault.

659 01:03:28,620.4768367 --> 01:04:16,920.4768367 But if we looked back in a retrospective study, would we find that our culture and the way in which we don't support parents Is actually perpetuating the really dire mental health situation that we have in our country?

Would anxiety and depression and suicide go down?

Would our divorce rates go down?

Would the financial strain that families are feeling because they don't have this education go down?

What type of prominent problems that are facing our country today are actually being caused by the way our children are being treated in those first 3, 5, 7, 12 years of life?

Yeah.

660 01:04:17,220.4768367 --> 01:04:18,870.4768367 I would guess all of them.

661 01:04:19,110.4768367 --> 01:04:19,530.4768367 Yeah.

662 01:04:19,810.4768367 --> 01:04:20,770.4768367 Influence in some way.

663 01:04:20,820.4768367 --> 01:04:21,750.4768367 I think with.

664 01:04:22,885.4768367 --> 01:04:31,795.4768367 With school shooting and with some, really extreme, aggressive, aggression and thing and things like that, there's probably multiple factors.

665 01:04:31,915.4768367 --> 01:04:32,125.4768367 Yeah.

666 01:04:32,215.4768367 --> 01:04:37,375.4768367 Video games, things they're seeing at home, online influence.

667 01:04:37,555.4768367 --> 01:04:37,795.4768367 Yep.

668 01:04:37,885.4768367 --> 01:04:41,485.4768367 And even like other brain connectivity things.

669 01:04:42,475.4768367 --> 01:04:42,925.4768367 Okay.

670 01:04:42,925.4768367 --> 01:04:43,195.4768367 Right.

671 01:04:43,435.4768367 --> 01:04:53,865.4768367 So this isn't, I'm not saying like all school shooters are psychopaths, but in psychopathy they will always usually find there's been a serious head injury.

672 01:04:54,345.4768367 --> 01:04:54,885.4768367 Wow.

673 01:04:54,915.4768367 --> 01:05:01,975.4768367 And very often a severed or not connected prefrontal cortex to emotional center.

674 01:05:03,745.4768367 --> 01:05:11,725.4768367 So that in combination with really low care during the baby years, we'd have to see.

675 01:05:12,205.4768367 --> 01:05:12,775.4768367 You'd have to see.

676 01:05:12,775.4768367 --> 01:05:21,750.4768367 But for the milder cases of lack of empathy, aggression yeah.

677 01:05:21,800.4768367 --> 01:05:22,490.4768367 All of that.

678 01:05:22,520.4768367 --> 01:05:26,270.4768367 I always think about what, how is that person treated as a baby?

Yeah.

679 01:05:26,510.4768367 --> 01:05:27,320.4768367 Oh my gosh.

680 01:05:27,320.4768367 --> 01:05:28,340.4768367 So heartbreaking.

681 01:05:28,610.4768367 --> 01:05:33,230.4768367 But then on the flip side of that, obviously in true HeHe fashion, I'm like always trying to find the silver lining.

682 01:05:33,230.4768367 --> 01:05:42,130.4768367 It's if we could get a study like that, if we could start to look retrospectively at those things, it gives us hope that we could fix them in the future.

683 01:05:42,160.4768367 --> 01:05:42,460.4768367 Right.

684 01:05:42,460.4768367 --> 01:05:45,460.4768367 We could actually completely redo this narrative and.

685 01:05:46,270.4768367 --> 01:05:49,870.4768367 Maybe stop this really terrible runaway train in its tracks.

686 01:05:49,870.4768367 --> 01:05:50,200.4768367 Hundred percent.

687 01:05:50,320.4768367 --> 01:05:50,380.4768367 Yeah.

688 01:05:50,380.4768367 --> 01:05:50,770.4768367 That's it.

689 01:05:51,10.4768367 --> 01:06:03,460.4768367 That's why any, every time I get like an email from someone like, oh, I read your book, or, your work's, I, I was parenting this other way and now it's, I'm totally changed and everything's great now.

690 01:06:03,770.4768367 --> 01:06:10,580.4768367 I just imagine that baby growing up and what that baby's gonna do when they grow up and the ripple effects of that.

691 01:06:11,0.4768367 --> 01:06:12,170.4768367 And that's it.

692 01:06:12,170.4768367 --> 01:06:20,30.4768367 If we, can we get a million babies nurtured?

Can we get like 300 million babies nurtured?

I don't know.

693 01:06:20,60.4768367 --> 01:06:36,550.4768367 What would the world look like?

That's, that is the hope, right?

That we can with our mothering superpowers and, nothing has become more evident to me over the past few years in my career doing this, is that mothers can fix everything.

694 01:06:36,670.4768367 --> 01:06:39,530.4768367 Yeah, we can absolutely change, yeah.

695 01:06:39,740.4768367 --> 01:06:40,670.4768367 The direction that we're in.

696 01:06:41,180.4768367 --> 01:06:42,800.4768367 I believe that deep in my soul.

697 01:06:43,70.4768367 --> 01:06:52,550.4768367 Okay, so for moms that are looking for a quick guide you had just mentioned a few minutes ago there are things that we can do to influence our babies for optimal sleep.

698 01:06:52,550.4768367 --> 01:06:56,150.4768367 If you've got a mom with a pen and paper and she's like, all right Dr.

699 01:06:56,150.4768367 --> 01:06:59,300.4768367 Ger, gimme your top like Couple tips.

700 01:06:59,360.4768367 --> 01:07:07,520.4768367 What are the things that we're looking to do or we are looking at in order to influence our babies for optimal sleep?

Mm-hmm.

701 01:07:07,760.4768367 --> 01:07:11,300.4768367 Number one, obviously keep them in proximity so we got that.

702 01:07:11,300.4768367 --> 01:07:11,870.4768367 Yeah.

703 01:07:12,110.4768367 --> 01:07:15,800.4768367 Make sure they're sleep, like they're sleeping in, in an environment where they feel safe.

704 01:07:15,860.4768367 --> 01:07:21,100.4768367 And if your baby's not comfortable sleeping alone, they need to be close, keep your baby close for sleep.

705 01:07:21,470.4768367 --> 01:07:26,120.4768367 They will by the way, develop that ability to sleep, to feel safe enough to sleep alone.

706 01:07:26,120.4768367 --> 01:07:28,520.4768367 You're not, it's not a bad habit to hold them.

707 01:07:29,30.4768367 --> 01:07:32,600.4768367 It's actually really beneficial and wonderful for their brain.

708 01:07:32,760.4768367 --> 01:07:39,0.4768367 To be held a lot during newborns, during the newborn phase, at least like on your chest for naps, all this kind of stuff.

709 01:07:39,0.4768367 --> 01:07:39,810.4768367 It's good.

710 01:07:39,810.4768367 --> 01:07:42,930.4768367 It will keep you rested, it'll keep you in your oxytocin bubble.

711 01:07:43,330.4768367 --> 01:08:02,330.4768367 So I said also, yeah, no, understanding your baby's sleep cues, knowing when they're tired and having that, like working with the intention of that flexible mind for, my baby's sleep might not look the same, their naps might not all be the same length, they might not be the exact same time.

712 01:08:02,330.4768367 --> 01:08:05,150.4768367 Their bedtime might not be the exact same time every day.

713 01:08:05,300.4768367 --> 01:08:10,400.4768367 Their wake up time might not be, but let's trust their brain to take the sleep it needs.

714 01:08:10,550.4768367 --> 01:08:15,230.4768367 If we set everything up for them, their brain will take the sleep it needs.

715 01:08:15,290.4768367 --> 01:08:16,370.4768367 Same with us.

716 01:08:16,430.4768367 --> 01:08:18,560.4768367 Right?

So that's important.

717 01:08:18,860.4768367 --> 01:08:20,330.4768367 Light is very important.

718 01:08:20,330.4768367 --> 01:08:25,580.4768367 If Andrew Huberman has not gotten his message to you yet.

719 01:08:27,605.4768367 --> 01:08:29,825.4768367 I will say it here.

720 01:08:29,915.4768367 --> 01:08:31,205.4768367 Morning light.

721 01:08:31,775.4768367 --> 01:08:35,645.4768367 Get sunlight onto your eyeballs and your baby's eyeballs.

722 01:08:36,125.4768367 --> 01:08:38,75.4768367 Within 15 minutes of waking up.

723 01:08:39,95.4768367 --> 01:08:40,415.4768367 Keep those days bright.

724 01:08:40,415.4768367 --> 01:08:44,945.4768367 Spend you know, as much time as you can outside, regardless of the climate.

725 01:08:44,945.4768367 --> 01:08:50,45.4768367 Like I live in Canada, we get our kids in Snowsuits and we go outside.

726 01:08:50,195.4768367 --> 01:08:54,45.4768367 No, no matter what there's no bad weather, just bad clothing.

727 01:08:54,255.4768367 --> 01:09:03,415.4768367 So suit up, get outside, lots of active time, right?

People spend, people have their babies in container after container.

728 01:09:04,340.4768367 --> 01:09:06,50.4768367 Sometimes they don't even get outta the car seat.

729 01:09:06,50.4768367 --> 01:09:13,690.4768367 It's just unlatch 'em from the car seat and latch them into the wheels and then wheel them around and then put them in the swing and then put them in the highchair.

730 01:09:13,690.4768367 --> 01:09:19,960.4768367 It's like babies need a lot of time to move like right away, right?

Like right from the beginning.

731 01:09:20,260.4768367 --> 01:09:23,560.4768367 Lots of floor time, lots of exploration time.

732 01:09:24,10.4768367 --> 01:09:25,60.4768367 Super important.

733 01:09:25,60.4768367 --> 01:09:28,550.4768367 Some parents will see drastic results, just with that.

734 01:09:29,180.4768367 --> 01:09:35,955.4768367 We want the nights dark, like also going back to some Huberman tips.

735 01:09:36,15.4768367 --> 01:09:37,695.4768367 Like super dark.

736 01:09:37,755.4768367 --> 01:09:39,465.4768367 Like you want your bedroom to be a cave.

737 01:09:39,575.4768367 --> 01:09:41,165.4768367 You want the air quality great.

738 01:09:41,195.4768367 --> 01:09:45,935.4768367 You want it dark, you want it clutter free.

739 01:09:45,935.4768367 --> 01:09:47,15.4768367 All these kinds of things.

740 01:09:47,15.4768367 --> 01:09:49,265.4768367 So for babies, sometimes you need a little nightlight.

741 01:09:49,265.4768367 --> 01:09:57,135.4768367 Especially in the early days of learning how to breastfeed and or a diaper change, right?

Like nights get less active as they get older.

742 01:09:57,475.4768367 --> 01:09:59,305.4768367 Use a red light just as needed.

743 01:09:59,695.4768367 --> 01:10:05,265.4768367 Don't, a lot of the families that work with will just have a red light on all night or a night light on all night.

744 01:10:05,475.4768367 --> 01:10:07,95.4768367 Terrible for everybody's sleep.

745 01:10:07,765.4768367 --> 01:10:08,905.4768367 Really important.

746 01:10:09,265.4768367 --> 01:10:10,585.4768367 Yeah, those are the big ones.

747 01:10:10,585.4768367 --> 01:10:17,395.4768367 And then also the junk sleep thing is like another myth that parents need to your baby can sleep in a carrier.

748 01:10:17,545.4768367 --> 01:10:20,695.4768367 Your baby can sleep in a stroller, your baby can sleep in the car.

749 01:10:20,745.4768367 --> 01:10:26,415.4768367 It actually will keep you saner 'cause you can actually get out of your house and go for walks and do things.

750 01:10:26,835.4768367 --> 01:10:30,105.4768367 And your baby is going to get restorative sleep wherever they're sleeping.

751 01:10:30,255.4768367 --> 01:10:32,185.4768367 So those are like big ones.

752 01:10:32,185.4768367 --> 01:10:33,505.4768367 That's a good foundation.

753 01:10:33,865.4768367 --> 01:10:35,545.4768367 I love that so much.

754 01:10:35,645.4768367 --> 01:10:40,295.4768367 Two things that you didn't talk about that I always educate about is temperature.

755 01:10:40,295.4768367 --> 01:10:43,595.4768367 So 68 to 72 is what I typically tell parents.

756 01:10:43,705.4768367 --> 01:10:48,325.4768367 Depending on your home life and the climate that you live in and how you dress your baby for sleep.

757 01:10:48,325.4768367 --> 01:10:50,845.4768367 Would you agree with that?

A hundred percent, yeah.

758 01:10:51,145.4768367 --> 01:10:57,595.4768367 And then one, it actually being cold, lowering your core body temperature is a prerequisite to fall asleep.

759 01:10:58,645.4768367 --> 01:10:59,245.4768367 Wow.

760 01:10:59,335.4768367 --> 01:10:59,665.4768367 Okay.

761 01:10:59,665.4768367 --> 01:11:00,925.4768367 It has to go down.

762 01:11:00,925.4768367 --> 01:11:04,255.4768367 So a bath one hour before bed is also good.

763 01:11:04,255.4768367 --> 01:11:06,475.4768367 'cause that will also help lower core body temperature.

764 01:11:06,655.4768367 --> 01:11:07,225.4768367 Okay.

765 01:11:07,535.4768367 --> 01:11:14,105.4768367 And what about white noise?

Do you suggest white noise for sleep to protect their sleep?

No.

766 01:11:14,225.4768367 --> 01:11:16,205.4768367 Oh no, I don't.

767 01:11:16,315.4768367 --> 01:11:20,635.4768367 White noise I recommend as needed.

768 01:11:20,875.4768367 --> 01:11:21,205.4768367 Okay.

769 01:11:21,235.4768367 --> 01:11:26,635.4768367 It is not a blanket tool for everybody What it is.

770 01:11:26,635.4768367 --> 01:11:26,935.4768367 Good.

771 01:11:26,935.4768367 --> 01:11:29,575.4768367 It does not keep your baby asleep or anything like that.

772 01:11:29,935.4768367 --> 01:11:33,415.4768367 What it, and it actually, you also wanna be very careful about the volume.

773 01:11:33,805.4768367 --> 01:11:40,495.4768367 You don't want it higher than 50 or so decibels like, so you can measure your, by your baby's ear to see the volume.

774 01:11:40,865.4768367 --> 01:11:44,620.4768367 What it is good at is buffering sudden noises in the environment.

775 01:11:44,640.4768367 --> 01:11:45,505.4768367 That might wake up your baby.

776 01:11:45,505.4768367 --> 01:11:52,895.4768367 So if your dog barks a lot, if there's a truck outside at a certain time every night that's when you might wanna bring that tool into your life.

777 01:11:53,345.4768367 --> 01:11:55,625.4768367 But otherwise not needed.

778 01:11:55,925.4768367 --> 01:12:01,625.4768367 Or if you're like me and you order Amazon every day and they're constantly ringing your doorbell, get that white noise in there.

779 01:12:01,625.4768367 --> 01:12:01,805.4768367 Yes.

780 01:12:01,810.4768367 --> 01:12:01,840.4768367 Yes.

781 01:12:01,985.4768367 --> 01:12:02,225.4768367 Okay.

782 01:12:02,225.4768367 --> 01:12:05,975.4768367 But also don't for don't you, your baby does not need silence to sleep.

783 01:12:05,975.4768367 --> 01:12:08,525.4768367 And actually we do not want to give them silence to sleep.

784 01:12:08,575.4768367 --> 01:12:12,965.4768367 Starting from when they're young, move about the house, do the things you need to do.

785 01:12:13,305.4768367 --> 01:12:17,205.4768367 You don't really need to lower your voice that much if they're napping on you or in a carrier.

786 01:12:17,545.4768367 --> 01:12:18,175.4768367 That's all.

787 01:12:18,235.4768367 --> 01:12:20,725.4768367 It's actually a safety signal to them that they're not alone.

788 01:12:20,730.4768367 --> 01:12:20,740.4768367 Yeah.

789 01:12:21,40.4768367 --> 01:12:22,375.4768367 Ah, yeah.

790 01:12:22,375.4768367 --> 01:12:30,55.4768367 So go to the brewery, get out and vacuum, have the TV on, run that washer and that dryer and that dishwasher.

791 01:12:30,55.4768367 --> 01:12:30,805.4768367 I love it so much.

792 01:12:31,105.4768367 --> 01:12:31,345.4768367 Okay.

793 01:12:31,345.4768367 --> 01:12:43,255.4768367 My last question is your opinion around the philosophy of don't put your baby down completely asleep, however, put them down drowsy but awake.

794 01:12:43,290.4768367 --> 01:12:47,375.4768367 What do we think about that?

It does not work for most people.

795 01:12:47,465.4768367 --> 01:12:48,755.4768367 That's my opinion as well.

796 01:12:48,760.4768367 --> 01:12:52,725.4768367 There, there are some there are some, I have met one once.

797 01:12:53,85.4768367 --> 01:12:57,855.4768367 Again, that is gonna be a baby super high end on the easygoing temperament.

798 01:12:58,395.4768367 --> 01:12:59,895.4768367 That's very happy to do that.

799 01:13:00,255.4768367 --> 01:13:01,725.4768367 So there's nothing wrong with your baby.

800 01:13:01,845.4768367 --> 01:13:03,525.4768367 If that's okay, if that's cool with them.

801 01:13:03,525.4768367 --> 01:13:13,515.4768367 But it's actually, more nurturing to hold them until they fall asleep, until they're in a deep sleep, and then to transfer them or cuddle them to sleep.

802 01:13:13,665.4768367 --> 01:13:14,445.4768367 Something like that.

803 01:13:14,745.4768367 --> 01:13:15,75.4768367 Yeah.

804 01:13:15,225.4768367 --> 01:13:15,405.4768367 Yeah.

805 01:13:15,405.4768367 --> 01:13:16,275.4768367 It's not needed.

806 01:13:17,625.4768367 --> 01:13:18,15.4768367 Dr.

807 01:13:18,15.4768367 --> 01:13:22,815.4768367 Kirshenbaum, this has been such a good conversation.

808 01:13:22,815.4768367 --> 01:13:41,505.4768367 I really appreciate you being so transparent and being willing to talk about the conversations that I think a lot of people find taboo, or they might be embarrassed to ask these questions, or maybe they've brought these questions to people and professionals in their lives and they have been shamed.

809 01:13:41,505.4768367 --> 01:13:52,635.4768367 Or if they've been shut down or they've been told that because they're exploring these things, then it is a reflection on them as a parent or their ability or their decision making skills.

810 01:13:52,635.4768367 --> 01:13:55,725.4768367 And so I just wanted to say thank you for joining me.

811 01:13:55,725.4768367 --> 01:14:26,205.4768367 Thank you for being willing to walk this with us because I really do think a lot of parents are yearning for this conversation, and there are not many places on the internet that are willing to have these conversations in a nonjudgmental way and in a transparent way that says, you're allowed to ask these questions and it makes you a good parent to be curious, and it makes you an informed parent that you're looking at your options and that you are actually allowed to make the decision that feels best for your baby.

812 01:14:26,205.4768367 --> 01:14:29,775.4768367 And there's data that supports all of these options.

813 01:14:29,775.4768367 --> 01:14:31,365.4768367 So do what's best for your family.

814 01:14:31,365.4768367 --> 01:14:32,145.4768367 I love that so much.

815 01:14:32,175.4768367 --> 01:14:32,415.4768367 Okay.

816 01:14:32,775.4768367 --> 01:14:33,915.4768367 You mentioned a book.

817 01:14:34,5.4768367 --> 01:14:36,675.4768367 I know you work with Dr.

818 01:14:36,675.4768367 --> 01:14:38,665.4768367 Rocio, who is also on an episode.

819 01:14:38,665.4768367 --> 01:14:39,935.4768367 Mm-hmm.

820 01:14:39,935.4768367 --> 01:14:48,495.4768367 If people wanted to learn from you, connect with you, hear more about the research that you're doing, and learn more about the sleep support that you provide.

821 01:14:48,705.4768367 --> 01:14:50,985.4768367 How can people do that?

Yeah.

822 01:14:50,985.4768367 --> 01:14:51,735.4768367 Thank you.

823 01:14:51,825.4768367 --> 01:14:53,385.4768367 This was such a good conversation.

824 01:14:53,385.4768367 --> 01:14:54,555.4768367 So refreshing.

825 01:14:54,895.4768367 --> 01:14:56,245.4768367 So happy to be here today.

826 01:14:56,575.4768367 --> 01:14:57,505.4768367 I, yeah.

827 01:14:57,505.4768367 --> 01:15:01,45.4768367 So people can read my book called The Nurture Revolution.

828 01:15:01,385.4768367 --> 01:15:02,975.4768367 A lot of people are like, I want references.

829 01:15:02,975.4768367 --> 01:15:03,665.4768367 I want references.

830 01:15:03,665.4768367 --> 01:15:13,285.4768367 There's I think there's over 700 references in my book and I wrote it on purpose because I'm like, there are your references, go find them and enjoy them and use them.

831 01:15:13,385.4768367 --> 01:15:14,495.4768367 So that's a great place.

832 01:15:14,495.4768367 --> 01:15:19,840.4768367 It's a great place to get a whole overview on why mental health is so important to build in those first three years.

833 01:15:20,150.4768367 --> 01:15:24,80.4768367 My website is nurture-neuroscience.com 834 01:15:24,110.4768367 --> 01:15:27,80.4768367 and I've got like you said, sleep consultations.

835 01:15:27,390.4768367 --> 01:15:33,900.4768367 I have a professional training for people who want to work with babies at their sleep and work with pregnant moms and postpartum moms.

836 01:15:34,340.4768367 --> 01:15:35,900.4768367 And I have a moms program as well.

837 01:15:35,900.4768367 --> 01:15:39,320.4768367 So lots of great things growing and evolving.

838 01:15:39,485.4768367 --> 01:15:40,430.4768367 I love it so much.

839 01:15:40,430.4768367 --> 01:15:44,375.4768367 Are you on social media at all?

Yes mostly on Instagram.

840 01:15:44,435.4768367 --> 01:15:45,560.4768367 And it's my name, Dr.

841 01:15:45,560.4768367 --> 01:15:46,545.4768367 Greer Kirshenbaum.

842 01:15:46,910.4768367 --> 01:15:48,110.4768367 All right, you guys.

843 01:15:48,140.4768367 --> 01:15:49,970.4768367 Thanks for showing up for us today.

844 01:15:49,970.4768367 --> 01:15:54,890.4768367 I know that this was a highly requested topic, and I hope that Dr.

845 01:15:54,890.4768367 --> 01:15:58,490.4768367 Greer and I gave you everything that you wanted to hear.

846 01:15:58,490.4768367 --> 01:16:02,60.4768367 I hope that we really went there on the taboo topics.

847 01:16:02,60.4768367 --> 01:16:09,860.4768367 I hope that you got the information that you came eager to learn today and deeper than that.

848 01:16:10,455.4768367 --> 01:16:18,255.4768367 We kind of restored some of your confidence in yourself to be able to make those decisions for your family.

849 01:16:18,255.4768367 --> 01:16:26,505.4768367 So I'm just gonna say it one more time 'cause I think maybe we can never hear this enough, but you're allowed to make whatever decision feels best to you.

850 01:16:26,505.4768367 --> 01:16:32,685.4768367 If you are not feeling supported by the healthcare professionals in your life, consider changing healthcare professionals.

851 01:16:32,685.4768367 --> 01:16:40,395.4768367 I really encourage you to have an open conversation with them, a collaborative, communicative style with your healthcare professionals.

852 01:16:40,395.4768367 --> 01:16:49,225.4768367 If you find that you're having to hide things or lie to your child's pediatrician about the decisions that you're making at home, I'm really implore you too.

853 01:16:49,615.4768367 --> 01:16:59,275.4768367 Consider if that's the right fit for you, and hopefully you'll be able to find a pediatrician that can better serve your family and will meet you where you are in the decisions that you are making.

854 01:16:59,545.4768367 --> 01:17:00,265.4768367 All right, you guys.

855 01:17:00,415.4768367 --> 01:17:01,825.4768367 I'll see you in the next episode.

856 01:17:02,35.4768367 --> 01:17:03,745.4768367 Be sure to follow Dr.

857 01:17:03,745.4768367 --> 01:17:09,565.4768367 Kirshenbaum on social media and you can find me at Tranquility by HeHe and at the Birth lounge.

858 01:17:09,685.4768367 --> 01:17:19,135.4768367 Until next time, head to your app store and download the Birth lounge app for evidence-based childbirth education and data-driven postpartum support delivered straight to your phone.

859 01:17:19,525.4768367 --> 01:17:20,485.4768367 Bye.

860 01:17:21,274.8101701 --> 01:17:22,894.8101701 Thank you so much for tuning in today.

861 01:17:22,894.8101701 --> 01:17:28,174.8101701 I love hanging out with you, and it is an honor to be your go-to gal when it comes to preparing for your baby.

862 01:17:28,384.8101701 --> 01:17:34,984.8101701 If you've enjoyed today's episode, please leave a five star review and tell others why they should be listening to the Birth Lounge podcast too.

863 01:17:35,344.8101701 --> 01:17:45,34.8101701 You deserve to have a birth that you love with a provider that values your autonomy and respects form consent without all the trauma that you so commonly hear about on social media.

864 01:17:45,274.8101701 --> 01:17:47,854.8101701 New episodes, air every Wednesday and Friday.

865 01:17:47,929.8101701 --> 01:17:50,449.8101701 Hit that follow button so you never miss an episode.

866 01:17:50,539.8101701 --> 01:17:53,359.8101701 I'm HeHe and this is the Birth Lounge podcast.