Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte.

So we're back to the beginning of the show.

We're on for Women at a funeral, which is wonderful, and we go to the funeral.

There's so many funny jokes.

I mean, I've forgotten that this guy, Javier died of a heroin overdose, but Carrie knew him when he was what's the non Javier Harry or whatever.

Like, it's all very funny, and she were at the I had also totally forgotten about this entire Samantha storyline, and I do not remember any other time where Samantha has women, other women like wives of guys that she's messed around with, giving her a hard time like this.

I hadn't remembered any of that, and it was super fascinating.

Do you remember these women sort of?

Yeah, they're like society women.

She has to go see like the Grandam to try to get at her because she makes out with some dude in his office and her his wife walks in.

Well, she gets caught on the on the sofa, yeah, the guy and the wife walks in.

Yeah, she has to go and get on her knees virtually and plead her case with this.

Woman, right, and it doesn't work.

Doesn't work, and she shames her, and Samantha says, do you want me to say I'm a whore?

I was like, what, I don't remember this at all, and a part of me, I do feel like some of this and I need to ask Jaron and Michael.

I feel like some of this.

We got so much mixed commentary after the first season of like who are these women?

No one wants to date these women?

You know, from male critics, right, And I feel like some of that was incorporated into storylines to say like, yeah, we know what you're all saying, you know, and by the way, we don't care.

We're going to write it in, you know.

And I felt like that was the scene.

And it's interesting because she says like, do you want me to say this?

And the woman's just sitting there, and then she says it, and then it doesn't work, and then she's like, well fine, you know, and then she goes and has to do like manual labor at the building of this this charity thing that she was trying to make.

I don't remember any of it, and it was so adorable, and she's wearing like regular clothes and she's dirty.

But then as Leonardo DiCaprio, who we filmed without showing because it's obviously not him, do you remember this, You led him from behind and he reaches down to her.

It's so good, that little kind of silly moment of kind of an homage to the leon or Dvinui, you know, the fingers.

Yes, it was beautiful.

It was so good.

I didn't remember any of this.

This is what I love so much about rewatching is like the details and the interesting things that there was so much of it.

It was packed in to this, you know, twenty five minutes, twenty two minutes, and you look back and it's amazing.

I know, it feels like an hour show.

It really was because it's slow, but because so much happens.

Yeah, so much happens, and every little thing is really interesting, especially when you're looking at it and then you think, like I can watch it again.

Like now I understand when people come up and say I've watched the show so many times and it's always so flattering.

Now I really get like you can see something different every time you look at it.

Absolutely, it's amazing it's amazing.

Anyway, I diverted from the in order rewatching, but that Samantha storyline really caught me off guard.

I didn't remember it at all, and I think it's just so great and fascinating.

So I'm there, We're there.

I also think it's really funny that Carrie and I rarely dressed the same.

We dressed in the black dresses and we're like, you know, critical, I'm like, is that an appropriate outfit?

I say to Samantha, And then we're the ones who are inappropriate because we didn't wear the designer Javier, which is all kind of funny.

And then we get there.

I borrow Samantha's hat because I feel like I'm boringly dressed, and then it blows off, which I vaguely remember, Oh my god, and there's another thing coming.

But I'm going to try to be an order, I mean.

And then we talk about this woman getting her the sister of the designer, getting all the plastic surgery done, which I mean, and then we make a Dona Tella Versachi joke.

I mean, we're we're very like, kind of ahead of our time.

I think in some ways, right, it's crazy.

And then and then Samantha decides to help them so that she can get their mailing list, which is interesting.

This is when like she's in like publicist mode and then we're gonna get Oh my god, I don't even want to tell my story yet, because Miranda's story of buying the apartment is so fantastic and literally hasn't changed.

Like when you go as myself, I have bought a house by myself.

Thank God I have the money.

They literally are like, and where's the money coming from?

And like when workmen come over, they're like, and who should I talk to about the villain?

I'm like, uh me, Like it is so insane, the sexist element.

Well, I mean, in fact, I know that I really know the guy that plays making her fill out the form.

So that's you know, he keeps saying and that's and finally he's just so and that's you or something like that.

Right, He's like he's like and oh he literally it says is your father paying the down payment?

Seth Barrish is an actually friend of mine and he's just wonderful on that.

He's kind of very just he doesn't even see her.

He's just like guy, like lawyer like that who's just you know, this is just an object across the table from him, and right, he's dehumanized her completely the way he treats her.

Right, And I mean, I think we've all had those moments when you're dealing with money and stuff where people you're not a person.

But I loved how you shot that too, because you don't do coverage.

You just did the angle of them at the table looking at each other, and the profile.

It's so powerful and she is just sitting there going like, yes, it's just me, Yes, it's just me.

I don't remember if I did close ups, but if I did, I did them in profile.

Got it.

I mean, yet they are close ups there.

What I mean is you didn't come around.

Yeah they are.

You're right.

I didn't want to connect them.

I wanted to say there is no wow.

I didn't put the camera over them and connect them.

I always kept him a separate scene so that you're saying there is no connection here.

It's just too right.

And also it's just such a powerful shot because you kind of there's a bit of backlighting, there might be another window there, and there is just very strong silhouettes.

Yet you totally understand what's happening in the scene like it works, It works so beautifully, and I just love her entire stare at storyline because poor Miranda, Oh my god, she goes through it.

She buys herself to this apartment, which really should be just purely a celebration of your success in life.

Yet she is made to feel bad by her neighbor, who tells her that the woman before her died in the apartment and no one found her and her cat ate her face, which you know hopefully is not true, right, But her neighbor tells her this, and Miranda then has a panic attack in her apartment.

It almost chokes and has to call Carrie.

And I only vaguely remembered all this, but it's like so powerful and good and amazing to think about how in many ways it's still so true for single women.

Oh yeah, no, it's yeah, I know, it's very and I actually it's just a footnote, has nothing to do anything except that I Barbara.

I think Barbara Spiegel or Barbara Siegel, I believe, played the real estate agent who brings her in.

Oh yeah, yeah yeah, And I knew her because I had directed her in an off off Broadway play before I was even making a living as a director.

I remember that.

That's amazing.

Yeah, it was just a funny small world.

You know, it's fun to I mean, we have the most amazing actors in literally every part in our show.

Oh yeah, yeah, I was just thinking I just had to get her name because I couldn't remember Molly Price.

Yes, I had her on last week.

She has a moment with you in another episode when the dog, your dog barks, Yes that only a dog will be and you're on the bed.

You remember this.

Yes, it's so good that moment.

Her reactions that is, I had to watch it like three times.

It's so good.

And I had her on the podcast.

She also came into the first episode of And just like that as Susan Sharon and I went to college with Molly.

Like talk about multiple connections.

Yes, we went to Rutgers with Bill Esper at the you know, the conservatory within Rutgers.

Well, it's funny.

I know Bill Espert, not I know who he is because I had a girlfriend at that time who had studied with him, and her good friend was Esper's assistant.

Wow, but it's funny, but I had all these inn yes, interconnect at least other kind of connections to Esper, so I'm very aware of him, and.

Yeah, yes, and also weirdly, at Rutgers in New Brunswick, Gandal Feini was a bartender at this restaurant, The Frog and the Toad, I believe it was called something like that that I used to go to before I quit drinking, which now I have quit drinking.

And I think he was a BA student.

We were in the bf FA program, but he was there in a way, not in a way where I saw him performed, but when I remembered that he had been the bartender because he was really interesting obviously, but I mean insane connections, right, insane connections.

And just a little side note because your sopranos and us, and you're you're the first person that I've talked to who has been both.

But we obviously had just so many memories and so many like to come up together was incredible.

Obviously we could never have even understood how incredible, right, But do you remember Silver Cup when we would both be there and they would have they were on Stage X, which we went back and shot, not this past season of and just like that the one before we were back on Silver Cup, which is literally like falling down around us.

But we were there, and we my set got to be on Stage X, which had been the Sopranos.

You had to go outside to get into it.

Yeah, I got to be there.

I got to be there.

I felt very I felt very privileged.

But back in the day, remember there's like that middle area of Silver Cup because it had been the bread factory, so it wasn't really like a proper studio, and the different stages would kind of have like a common area of hallways, and the Sopranos would have their craft services, which was like going to the best Italian restaurant that you could possibly imagine, and our craft services was really really not that no offense to anyone who made it.

But we would just be like, how can we get over there?

And they would guard that food, do you know what I mean?

Like they'd be like, no, you can't come over here, and we'd be like, please, can we have some meatballs?

Like on like hour fifteen, right, you're like really wanting the Sopranos meatball, but she can't have them.

Do you remember all this?

Like it's such a crazy time.

I didn't realize that the mob was keeping you away from the food from our foot.

They were they were prising that food because it was good.

It was really good.

It's just crazy to think about.

I mean, there's something so adorably kind of humble and New york Ish about the fact that we filmed those two shows.

We started in ninety seven or whatever year.

I think that was the year of our pilots.

We filmed in an old breadon factory that was not supposed to be a studio by HBO, who was not supposed to be a player, you know what I mean.

Obviously turned into one, thank god, But just the humbleness of it all in the beginning.

Well, I have really I mean, I agree with you.

That was really I mean, that's well put.

There was something about that, particularly my first season before the Sopranos was Hit and the Sex and the City, which was you know, I guess it was the second season.

There was something about that that I sometimes referred to it as, you know, the best summer job I ever had.

Well, what I did last summer write those little things when you're a kid.

That was it was really like I remember walking out and the teamsters would be, uh, kind of leaning back in their folding chairs with a TV they'd set up because there was the Yankees were on, were playing, and it was just like this is I remember thinking, this is the best job you can have, you know, or you're doing the Sopranos and then you're doing Sex and the City.

I just felt so privileged to be, you know, basically shuttling between those two shows the World Cup, you know, with the greatest view of the city.

You could have possibly looked like a backdrop for a play about New York, you know, except and I just and so I agree with you.

There was something about aside from the fact that you got blocked from partaking of.

The food, it's okay.

Do you know what everybody on the Sopranos after the first season game weight?

I mean, if you look at the how could you not it was incredible?

It was incredible.

Yeah, I mean it was just you know, and then I still remember enough to talk about the Sopranos.

You remember, it's fun.

I mean, it's it's the cousin, uh of your ship.

It is that.

I remember we would shoot we were shooting a scene at about a ban and you know it's called the back room of about a Being where they're all having uh lunch and imposta and stuff.

And so when you do shoot an eating scene, and this would be true of Sex and the City, you always have a spit bucket so that people don't have to eat all this food and they just you know, pretend to eat and then they just spit it out and at the end of the table.

So I mean, we're shooting that, and I go over and and I was looking at the guys and and the guys had the spit bucket up on the table there, but it's completely clean.

I said, what's what's the deal there?

He said, they just eat everything, they said every so we just have four takes and they would eat four meals.

You know, wow, wow, you know what that.

I think that's a theme because people have asked me about the spit bucket thing.

We never ever used a spit bucket, but I think it was because Michael and I feel like also Darren really wanted us to eat and keep talking, right, so like we didn't really have the opportunity to be like okay, but you know, and we would we would order something that wasn't going to be insane, right for eight million hundred takes or whatever.

But like you remember, how they love to have Cynthia with her mouth open like literally like alaha, you know which she was game to do.

You know, you guys did that very well because it's it is hard for actors to eat and talk and it's always a challenge and you guys, all four of you really make you never question it.

It just it's just because these women are just eating and talking and you never think about it.

Then somebody wisely decided not to serve Marte like spinach or something, so.

You didn't get it right.

But I mean, one time they have that in storyline for Cynthia, like you know, they were just like, let's let's Cynthia do all that stuff.

And she does.

She does.

You know, she has no like self consciousness about these things.

You know, God, God bless her.

All.

Right back to the show because that was really fun.

Okay, so oh wait, there's.

See.

One of the things I love about your episodes is that when I'm watching my own developments as Charlotte and kind of easing into my body, like being really present and letting go of some of the anxiety that I have.

In the first season, we're in the car after the funeral, it's Sarah Jessica, Kim and I and we're just chatting.

We all fit in the backseat.

We must have been some big old car and you're somehow lit us beautifully in the back of this car.

I don't know how.

I don't really remember filming this, which sometimes I do remember, like in the older cars you could get in the front seat with the camera and is that what you did?

Do you remember?

Yeah?

Remember, I mean, I think Michael Spiller, I'm sure.

We should ask Michael Speller.

Yes, he gets credit for the lighting.

I mean, yeah, and yeah, we probably are in the front of a I can't remember if it's the Limo.

In which case I think it is.

I think it is, I think.

But again, you would have had to make sure that there was not a partition so you could get the camera there, right right.

I think at that point we were not allowed to shoot kind of the wider format that we eventually did on that eight or whatever it was, right right.

Originally it was, you know, a narrower format, so it's always hard to get three.

People, really hard.

I know, that's what I was saying.

I was like, I can't believe we're all here and we all look great.

That's amazing, and it's very It's like the beginning of Charlotte.

Like also at the dinner scene when they talk about Miranda saying, you know that she's buying her apartment, and I say, oh, no, you know, it messes up the power structure between men and women.

You have to rent.

That's why I rent.

Like it's a crazy, crazy conversation.

But the good news is they just giggle at me so lovingly.

They don't roll their eyes, you know what I mean, They're just oh, that's Charlotte, you know.

But it's interesting because as much as I don't agree with my own character's point of view at those moments, it is actually kind of makes some sense, you know, from that perspective, right, because like Miranda is thinking, like, I'm bang apartment.

It's amazing.

Yet everyone's just doubting her and doubting her and doubting her and sent her down a road of like self doubt where she has panic attacks and she's going to die alone, you know, which is what society will do to you, you know what I mean.

Yeah, So Charlotte's kind of the voice of that in some ways, which is not unimportant, you know, but at the time I remember being like, oh, no, I don't want to say this, you know, because I'm not really like that, right, But it's important, I think, to have the different point of views.

And I think that's part of what was great about the show.

Well, I think, I mean your character.

I mean, really she Charlotte's she really stands apart from the other three because they tend to be all pretty much in agreement.

I mean if they actually disagree, of course, but she really is always just tagging along.

I mean just you know, they're either they're somehow either corrected you or sort of gently teasing you on.

I can't believe that, you know.

I mean even when you decide you've had it with and you're just going to get a dog.

You know, they're pretty gentle about all those things.

I think that I love the way it's handled because Charlotte is never treated poorly by many of the women's remember, but she is clearly following her own drummer.

I mean, that's for.

Sure, right, which is actually really strong in so many, so many ways, you know, when I look back on it, I mean I did know, like, I don't think you had to direct any of the ones where I really give like a long, long speech, like a didactic like I have one where I have the book.

I haven't gotten it to it yet in the rewatch, but I have a book about how to get a husband or something kind of like horrific, and I'm like for like a page and a half, you know, and they have to just sit there and you know that they don't agree with it, right, But I just keep going because that's how Charlotte believes, you know, like she believes one hundred percent, which I love that, but it's also hard.

Yeah, but it's a good quality.

I never thought of that.

It's a nice quality about her is that she's very committed to whatever her latest thing is, whether it's a dog or you know, she just she just goes.

Full ahead for definately most definitely, and like with that.

That's what I also like about the widow storyline in this episode.

It makes such good emotional sense that this is interesting to her.

Like when we're walking down the street, which I do remember shooting with Kurt Deutsch plays the guy, and I remember him struggling a little bit.

I hope this is okay that I'm saying this with the he's supposed to be crying and this turned Charlotte on, and I remember I feel like you guys had a conversation about the fact that he might be putting it on.

Yeah, I wondered about that when I was watching it.

Then I thought, I'm not sure.

I don't remember what I had said to him, but I had the feeling when I was watching, and it's like, yeah, I'm not convinced that this guy is really feeling this, you know, and he's a good factor that if he needed to, he could.

But right, it may be some one of those things.

Again, I just don't remember quite what the conversation was, but it could be one of those things where it's like there's some reality to it, but he just milks it right.

Well, because in the end, when all the other women get out of the car to come to this ceremony at the wife's grave, and they all have the lilies, and that's when I beat him with the lilies.

And sorry, I gave you a terrible allergy, but that's I'm glad.

I'm glad.

But that's it all makes sense when you think it through, right, because he very well was milking it.

But I do remember I remember him being stressed and somehow you saying something to him that freed him to do the scene.

You know, like their layers, you know, like there's different ways to come at it.

Yeah, I think that, but he yeah, no.

But it's a sweet scene in a way, you know.

I mean Charlotte is so taken with his you know, vulnerability.

Right, which makes perfect sense for her.

Like, it's good.

I liked it.

I hadn't remembered this as one of my The main thing I remembered about this episode was the rain and the hill and running my shoes and being cold.

And then when I look back on it, I'm like, no, no, this is like real.

It's a big step forward in characters, Charlotte's character development, because every element of that makes sense, right.

She goes to the girls.

First of all, she says, you know you got to rent because the power dynamic.

Then she says, no, no, he's full of feeling.

You know, he's been through this thing.

It shows he can commit, but yet he's vulnerable.

And then you know, he cries on the street and she's like, oh, you know, she wants to mother so badly, you know, which I don't think she realizes in an intellectual way, but you see it, like it's a great episode for her, and I'm so happy that you were there so that it could be good.

Well, I will say that what you just made me think is that Charlotte really is an interesting character in that she's always she's willing for a person who's essentially cautious and conservative, she's always trying new things.

She's willing to try something.

She's very game about the next thing that she's going to do, so admitting fully commits to that new adventure in the search for Charlotte.

It's so true.

It's so true, especially in the early days, you know, and it's interesting as she's you know, developed, and as we go and obviously many many things happen, and I'm still playing her, and sometimes when I look back, I'm like, I need to remember this stuff, like, you know, because I'm still playing her, right, I mean, it's in me, but like sometimes there's little details that I forget, and it's to professcinating.

Oh my god.

There's another time when Miranda thinks she's going to die by herself and she talks to she calls Carrie, and Carrie's screening her calls because Big has been calling her.

After she called Big I'm out of order now, but this is how I however, Roll and Carrie, sorry, sorry, Miranda says to Carrie, is such a very rare moment.

She says, you know, on my emergency list, I have my parents, but I don't even like them, and they live in Pennsylvania.

And Carrie says, why don't you have me?

And Miranda says, I can't put you because you screen your calls.

This is when she's had to go to the hospital with the panic attack.

It's such a great scene and it's so powerful, and I don't remember her ever previously saying my parents are from Pennsylvania and I don't like them, Like it's so fascinating.

Well, that's funny, but I had forgotten that, and now that you're saying it, i'd forgotten that.

But also to the technologically, it must be interesting for people to watch it now because there's scenes and payphone booths.

I mean, there's one thing in fact where Carrie calls from a phone booth.

And I had decided to have it raining yes, because I wanted to.

Again, this is you know, inside of baseball here, But but I like the suggestion of tears on the yes, and I think she's pretty emotional in that.

It's when she we think she's calling Big.

She runs off from maybe Roley Cooper, she runs off from somebody, and she runs to the phone booth and you think she's she's like, I had to call, and you think she's calling Big, but she's calling Miranda.

It's so good.

I know, it's great.

And then it's raining there too, you know, Yeah, it's on the windows, and it just I always like to include and I did it a good deal, like whenever I could on Sex and the City of including weather because it's it's it's got a sensual quality.

And when you watch movies when there's rain or log or there's you know, uh, it really you feel it, and it makes the events feel more relatable becaueah, you know.

And and it's visually really interesting too.

And it was just better to see her through the refracted light of the rain drops on the glass.

And you know, definitely.

But see, you just gave yourself away because you said we had to give credit to Spiller for the lighting.

No, oh, you are the mastermind.

I knew it.

I knew it because there's such a difference, like because obviously everyone's working together it's a true collaboration, right, but you up everybody's game when you have a vision.

Well, that's I'd like to think that I was true.

I did a when I was just getting started.

I did this show called New York Undercover.

Oh no, there was a DP on that, and he later became an executive producer and a criminal minds I think.

And I went by for another reason that I was trying to help a woman who I was trying to sort of help her get and started as a director, and so I went over there to say you should have this person's shadow or whatever, and we ended up in a conversation and he said something to me that at the time I wasn't sure how to take it, but I think it was a good thing.

He meant it well, and that was he said, every time you would come to do an episode, I would get nervous, aha, because I was never sure I could do what you wanted.

Oh that's sweet.

Though it was really in retrospect, it was like, oh, okay, good.

So I was challenging him and you know, under limited circumstances.

And that's not a show that was noted for its looks.

But.

You know, but he was he but anyway, he said that, and I thought, well, good.

It's a great thing.

It's a great thing.

I mean, I think with actors.

I've known different actors, some of whom want to feel that way from a director and some of whom it might make us shut down.

Right, So it's like, I personally, I feel like with you, the thing that you did that I loved, especially at the timing that you came right when we were we were like all possibility, you know what I mean.

I felt like we were excited and ready to play and ready to do all this stuff, but we needed guidance, you know, we needed like to get like coal East into what we became.

And you were a big part of that.

And for me, I thought, like, technically, like that scene you said where we had to find the lens and kind of find the reason that we would walk to that person, Like stuff like that is really like ooh oh, we get to we have to think and we have to do this and we have to remember and you know, there's like an extra added technical challenge which is really fun.

But then from an emotional standpoint, you're very safe feeling like like we can ask you anything, we can talk to you.

We can.

We don't have to feel like, oh, we've got to keep our personal stuff in check and just perform, which you do feel with some directors, you know, which I don't.

I don't love that feeling.

I'm glad that that comes across I.

I really do, truly, with almost no exceptions I can think of too.

But other than that, of all the things I've done, I just love working with actors.

I just I really like to be around actors.

I like to I like the I like to feel that it's fun and game and that that uh and I do think, maybe not quite consciously, I'm not going to let anything bad happen, you know.

Right, but we can feel that.

You know.

That's great because I just want I want everybody to have fun and to feel relaxed.

I mean, because I don't think people.

I mean, I'm sure there are directors will get great results by creating massive tension on the set, but I'm not one of them.

I mean, I know you're not.

Thank God.

We didn't need that.

We didn't need that.

We had to walk in those shoes, we had to do all kind of craziness.

We didn't need any extra added element from a director.

Do you know what I mean?

Sometimes I am my guest is more interesting to me than my paper, and you are one of that that times.

So my listeners, please bear with me.

I'm going to try to hit the main parts.

I mean, I feel there's so many important things that happened in this episode, but I feel one of them is the Miranda, which we have kind of hit on, and I feel like it's so great because it really sets up so much of her future development.

Right that she's afraid she's going to die alone and that her cat's going to eat her face is like so but she's so good at it and also funny at the same time, like when she's almost choky, she's really funny.

She is I mean you yeah, she does.

She finds a way to do that that's amusing and it's not alarming but.

Right because it could be very scary because I knew what was coming.

I was like, oh my god, this one she al must jokes.

But she's really really funny.

And then the other thing that is so good.

I mean, so many things are so good, but I love because I have previously been struggling with the big relationship in first season and a lot of This has to do with the fact that, you know, we filmed the pilot nineteen ninety seven, and back then you didn't really talk about withholding men so much.

It was just like kind of how it was, you know what I'm saying, Like we didn't have the social media vocabulary of like blah blah blah, you're better than that girl whatever.

I don't know, you know what I'm saying.

It's different times, and my own perspective is different being older, right, and back then, I just I think I also feel that, you know, Charlotte was very pro big, and so I don't think that I questioned it because I play Charlotte and I just was like, yes, of course I'm pro big.

Why wouldn't I be.

You know what I'm saying, Like, you got to play the character, you got to commit, so I think I did.

And now I'm looking back on it going like Carrie deserves better.

That's how I felt the whole first season.

But this episode what I see when I look at them and I think this is because of this this vibe that you're able to create, he is a completely different, much more likable, relatable, charming character.

Like when they go bowling, it is like an epiphany.

Yeah, it is an incredible scene.

I love that scene.

I just watched it last night, and I mean they're both so cute.

Oh my god, which after she both I mean.

It's real, it's real.

You can tell that, Sir Jessica.

Oh yeah, that's I mean.

And she's just adorable.

I mean she really is.

She really is.

And it's like I've forgotten how adorable she is on and off screen.

Of course, yes, my relationship with the primarily was on screen.

And and just watching that is like, she's so cute and so frigging funny, and and then and and so is Chris.

I mean he yes, you go, oh, that's why she likes it.

Yes, exactly why she likes it because yes, thank god, he's.

Funny, he's sexy, he's good looking.

I mean, he's he's all those things.

And she is too, and so I mean, and the chemistry between the two of them is so palpable, you know.

And of course there's the scene it's not that episode, but when they fall in the lake.

You know, yes, you know, it's very nineteen thirty's movie moment, so great.

It's like something Kaptaine Heppwerin would do and yes, and they're charming in that.

I mean, they're just yes, speak to human beings, adore each other and have fun.

And that's why I like that scene I mentioned on the bed when they just just think, you know, they can't as she says, it's like that red wall.

It's a good idea, but it just doesn't work, and that's the nature of that relationship.

But you're right.

I mean, I think that scene is that bowling scene is really charming.

I mean it's incredible, and it's the first time that I finally felt like because also it's so hard to really separate the people from the characters, right because obviously we were all together and I know them and whatnot.

But when I'm watching it, because there's been kind of this fan you know, upset about Carrie and Carrie Big together whatever, and I've always been like, what are they talking about?

But when I watch it back, I can kind of see from the lens of twenty twenty five why they're like why is she with him?

Or why does she want them?

Or why does she put up with that?

But then by the time we get to this bowling scene, because of the ease, there's like an ease that I don't think.

I mean, I think the chemistry was there since the pilot, obviously right, and she's her incredibly sparkly, charming self when you're on her, and he's his incredibly charismatic, slightly covered self when you're on him, and you can feel that there's something between them.

But in this scene, the bowling scene, and the sequeens leading up to the bowling scene, like they have dinner and it's super sexy and all that.

But the bowling scene, just if you just take that out and look at it, it's like Gangbusters.

I mean, I could put it against any film scene of anyone in a romantic comedy or not.

It's amazing.

Oh that's yeah.

Yeah.

I adored the scene when I saw it last night, and you know, I mean I'd sort of looking at it like I had nothing to do with it.

You know.

It's like, objectively, they're charming, and they're they're swell together, and you know, and there is some there's some moments I understand.

I mean, we live in a different world now, and the you know, world in which it's very easy to judge the past from the superior position of the present.

Something I find frankly annoying at the time.

I get it just because it's like, you know, people feel like they know so much more than the ignorant amuses who lived twenty years ago, who lived through it twenty thirty years ago.

No, you're We're all a part of the perer we live in.

I mean, people will look back at those people who are standing in judgment earlier, you know, generations, and go what's wrong with them?

You know?

I mean it's every generation looks back on the previous generations and judges them.

Unfortunately, I think that judgment is not to hold pontificate here, but go for it.

Well, it's just people tend to judge matter.

I mean, everybody's a critic, everybody's everybody's got knows more, everybody's smarter, everybody's you know, it would never make those mistakes, which is just absurd.

You live in the time you live in, and just like we're living in one now, right, and those who stand in judgment in the past will look as absurd frankly in the future as to another generation as they find that, you know, people like the character a big looks to them.

You know, it's different, absolutely, absolutely, and I mean That's another reason I wanted to do the podcast is because I think it's super interesting, you know, to look at what's different was the same, but I don't want to judge.

And someone went on my on my podcast Instagram and said, you know, what's your problem with Big and Carrie.

You're you.

You keep talking about it, and I'm just trying to understand it.

I don't.

I'm not.

I don't.

I mean, we made the show we made.

I love the show we made, like obviously, I would never do a podcast about it if I didn't love it.

I'm still doing the show, you know what I'm saying, Like, I love it obviously.

But this person said, you're being disrespectful.

I'm like, no, I don't actually think I'm being disrespectful.

I'm just trying to look at it right, and I see positives and negatives, like there is a complex picture, you know what I mean, other.

Things that you would do different.

Look, you know everybody in the in our game would do something different, would not be satisfied with their own work, would do something different.

But we don't, you know in hindsight.

But you're not allowed to shoot something and see it from the perspective of someone twenty years later and judge it.

You just have to do it and do the best you.

Can and right, and the thing is, it's amazing, Like that's what I love, Like, you know, thank god.

Right, since I hadn't really seen it since way back, I'm like, well, thank god.

Even the first season that I in my mind had thought was like a hot mess, right, I look back, and there's so much good in it.

And yes, we're not.

It hasn't jelled, I would say, but the pieces are there, right, and you're looking at it and you're like, where are they?

Where's the light?

What?

You know?

But there's something so charming about that, and charming about the fact that we were allowed to find ourselves, you know, we were allowed to develop and keep going and everyone involved wanted to be better, right, so we're all in it together.

And then we're adding elements like you like, thank god for Michael Hill going, yeah, let's get Alan Cultra over here, you know, oh, thank god.

Yeah, And thank god.

I had a great relationship with Michael too.

I mean yeah, because he held the purse strings.

He did, but he was great, I mean he was really and and the other Michael Michael Patrick, you know, with him was great, and so I felt, you know, free to be free to be me, I mean.

Free to yeah, And you made us feel free.

And that's really like such a powerful, powerful thing as an actor in any circumstance, but especially in the circumstance where we were really at that point building something.

We were in like a growth phase, like a building phase, you know, where I think we knew it on some level that we had so much great stuff available to us, but it hadn't really you know, found like uh, you know, like gelled in like one hundred percent.

But we're right on the edge of it.

And then you come and I see it all bump up like so much, you know, visually, emotionally, like our bodies are more calm, you know, just because of what you've created on the set, which is the power of a director.

You know, you can create tension, you can create fear, you know, some people do that, that's their way.

This is what I love so much about you, so many things, but number one, your vision was you know, so elevated for us, Like you took our show to the next level visually and in terms of the storytelling and the way that you included these elements and just talking to you, You're telling me so many other details that I hadn't even realized that now I have to go back and look again, which is that's what you want, right?

But then also just what for as an actor?

I can say you created a confidence in me, like a trust that I could do it, you know, so like I was challenged, but at the same time I felt like, oh, yes, I can, I can do this.

I can play Charlotte.

And when I look at myself on screen, like my shoulders are down, like I'm my voice is calmer.

I mean, I'm still her, right, but I'm there's a level of ease that I didn't have till you came.

So thank you.

I'm thrilled to hear that.

Really, it was really it was such a pleasure to work with you and and and the other women.

I mean, it was just I was so happy to be there and it was just a pleasure.

I mean, I was coming from a very dark world, you know, next door, you know, where the food was protected and the old was and it was a dark vision, and you know, it was it was like a big I mean I loved everybody, and of course it was a big dysfunctional Italian family with all the things that came with that, and then I would come over to Sexton City and it was like, oh, this is such a relief, and.

That's so nice to hear.

That's so nice to hear.

I just remember also just like the funny, like like you brought so much charm just in your person do I mean?

It was good.

It was good, and I remember.

I mean, I just forgot and then I just saw it.

In one of the early maybe the first episode I directed, I can't remember.

There was something I was trying to get the background to a guy to do something and I couldn't get in to do it.

I just explained it to him a bunch of times, and I was just kind of losing my patience, and Sarah Disker said, oh, you just do it.

So there is You're standing on the street and she bumps into you.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was so good.

I remember that too, and I remember thinking, how did that happen?

Because I don't think of you as being a director who's like trying trying to be in the show.

You know what I'm saying, not at all believe me.

I was right, But it's so good.

It's so perfect and there's one time too, and I don't think this was one you directed, but Spiller one time is a guy on the street talking to the camera like it's so funny.

And then one time Camille, who was in casting, is one of the people.

Like there's so many people that I think back then we were just like rolland as quick as we could right, so if like something happened with the night, we were like, just get in there.

But it is really fun.

Alan, You're a joy.

I'm not even going to try to rewatch anymore because we covered our bases.

We covered all the important things.

That's great.

I'm so glad.

Thank you.

I'm very honored that you asked me to do this.

Thank you.

You're my first director.

That's not Michael Patrick King who's been on.

So thank you very much.

I'm honored.

I'm honored and I flattered that you asked me.

And it was fun to do and you look fantastic by the way.

I don't think so much.

Whatever you're doing and keep doing it.

I have some big lights on me, as you can see in my glasses when I move around.

But thank you so much.

I also would like to love live in your house.

It's very beautiful and you look great and I'm so happy that you're living up there, and I hope you're happy.

I am.

Thank you so much.

Good.

Well, just know that we love you and we think about you, and sometimes we quote you on the set of Ben just like that.

I'm so happy to hear that.

And please give my love to the whole game.

I will, I will.

You should come back and be with us.

I'm so glad.

I'm so glad we endow you back.

Okay, nice to see you, Thank you for coming.

Okay, see it