Being a USA athlete was just a huge privilege for me and one of the great gifts of my career was for my running to mean something more than just me trying to bring out the best in me, but representing our country.

Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton.

I'm your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road Runners, and with me my co- host, Peloton instructor, Becs Gentry.

Becs, it's great to see you.

How you doing?

I am great, but we're not here to talk about me.

We are here to first and foremost, congratulations on completing the Bank of America Chicago Marathon a mere couple of days ago.

Rob, you handled that day so well.

You are looking great.

I've seen you walk and you're walking very well.

So talk us through it.

How are you feeling?

How was the 26.2?

You haven't seen me walk much or down any stairs.

Yeah, you haven't seen me go down any stairs.

It's the Tuesday after the marathon that you and I are speaking and I'm feeling pretty good actually.

I feel the typical quad soreness a couple of days after a marathon.

So I've got so much to say about Chicago.

Yes, fill us in.

I want to start by just congratulating Carey Pinkowski, Mike Nishi, the race director and technical director of the Chicago Marathon.

Everybody at CEM, the Chicago Events Management, that team, they do an incredible job with that event.

It is such a runner- friendly event.

They make it so easy and so fun for you as a runner from everything, the expo, the start, the course, the finish, the beer at the finish line, the whole nine yards.

I mean, it is so much fun to run the Bank of America Chicago Marathon and the crowds, Becs, just blew me away.

I mean, I really can say that nothing has come closer to reminding me of the New York City Marathon than this marathon, and that is no offense at all to my friends in Berlin or Tokyo where I ran marathons in the last year.

Those were great and special in their own ways, but Becs, the crowds that came out in Chicago in the most incredible way, the music, the performance, just the sheer volume of them was so incredible.

I hadn't experienced anything like that since the last time I ran New York in 2013, and I have to say I was just blown away, I really was, at the energy and the way that the city of Chicago comes out and shows up for that event.

And Chicago has been in the news a little bit lately and not always for reasons that it wants to be.

And I have a feeling that there was even a little extra kind of like, " Hey, folks.

Let's get out and show up and show everybody what Chicago's all about today of the day of this marathon." I could feel it.

It was incredible.

So I just want to say to everybody out in Chicago, phenomenal, phenomenal day.

It was so awesome.

Now, in regards to my race.

Well, they always say you should have an A goal, a B goal and a C goal.

I know you talk about that, and I always insist on the C goal being finish the damn race because there is always a chance...

As we'll hear later from Jenny Simpson when we talked to her about the first marathon she ran, the Olympic trials in Orlando.

There's always a chance when you show up at the starting line of a marathon that you will not finish that marathon because it is really hard to run 26.2.

And that isn't always based off of your training.

You can be perfectly, if there ever was perfect, training, but the day just doesn't go the way you want it to.

That's exactly right.

And it sometimes can be even hard to really entirely understand why.

So Becs, I had a perfect 13 miles.

You did.

I was tracking you.

I was like, " He's doing it."

A perfect half.

It was to the second exactly where I wanted to be at 13.1.

I looked at my watch and everything they tell you about Chicago, how your GPS will go crazy and you won't know where you are, mine actually hung in there okay, my Garmin watch, got to give a credit.

I did a good job, but I did a little manual time- checking and I was exactly where I wanted to be at the half and I felt good, my heart rate had stayed low, everything felt good and then something happened.

I remember turning and coming back down south I think, or maybe going out west.

It was a turn that I remember and it was a nice day in Chicago.

The one thing I remember looking at throughout the week was the weather forecast and the highs were looking like upper 60s.

Can't complain about that.

That's pretty good.

But there was never a single cloud in any of those forecasts.

It was always this big yellow sun.

And once I got into some of the areas of the race where you were really just exposed to the sun and it wasn't super hot, but you are in the sun full- on, I just started to feel differently.

I could see my heart rate starting to edge up, the effort level that I felt I needed to keep that pace, it just started to feel harder and harder and I had never run...

Well, I had run Berlin, but that was the only other race I'd ever run which was so flat that there was nothing to kind of cause you moderate anything in terms of your effort level.

There was no up and down and none of the things that I'm so used to in New York.

So I can't entirely put my finger on what happened.

I'm sure you can relate to this, Becs, but I could just feel literally it's slipping away.

I could feel my pace slipping away.

I could feel the effort level just getting higher and higher.

I didn't feel like I could get enough fluid.

But then when I took a lot of fluid, I started to feel heavy and weighed down by the fluid and everything just felt like it was starting to grind into slow motion.

And it reminded me of something I talked about in the episode with Meb in Chicago, a day I had training in Central Park during the block where it was really hot and I just felt like, " Oh my gosh, I just feel really bad.

I just can't keep going." And so you can see if you tracked me, my splits start to go down and down and down, and there's just that moment in a race if you've got a goal where you can feel it slipping and then the pace groups start to pass you, Becs.

And that is where the mental side really starts to get...

And there's kind of a point there where you're like, " Okay, do I have it in me now to dig in and here's the pace group passing me that I know is the number I need and do I have it or do I not have it?

Can I respond to this or not?" And it was just a day where for whatever it was, the weather, I saw the yellow flags went up at one point as well, I noticed that and I was like, " Oh, man.

This thing's now a yellow flag, so this is warmer than maybe I thought it was going to be," and I just knew that I did not have the ability to dig in and find that gear to keep up with that pace group.

And I said, " You know what?

We're going seagull today," and I started giving out the high- fives and really enjoying the crowd a bit more, running with my great friend and colleague, Alex Egan from New York Road Runners, along with Tina Muir by the way, who ran with us for the first half.

So we had a great time running together and it turned into a day where we're like, you know what?

We're going to have some fun and we're going to enjoy this and get ourselves to the finish line because finishing is always the thing that we've got to do.

And also staying out of the medical tent.

That's the other thing we always want to do, finish and not go to the medical tent.

And so those were accomplished and I got a beautiful medal and had an amazing experience, Becs.

There we go.

There we go.

And this is ringing lots of bells of similar to what Austin did in Berlin where hotter than expected and pulled it back in order to have a joyful day.

You runners are in control of how you're going to feel, so why not take the decision to shine bright and enjoy it rather than be on the struggle bus for another half?

And I mean, training gives you that ability though, Rob.

The fact that you'd done weeks and weeks of training of getting your long runs in.

You were so in tune with how your body felt that you could acknowledge, " Huh, this doesn't feel right.

This just doesn't feel good today.

So here's my options." And if you don't train, you don't know that, you don't have that internal conversation, and I think that's very scary to me and it's wonderful when I hear people say, " No, I just listened to my body and I understood." I'm like, " Oh, you trained.

You're so good.

You're such a good runner."

And I think having played a few other sports as well, Becs, there are days when you just don't have it, right?

I mean, anybody who's been at maybe a pitcher or playing tennis, as I played a lot, there are days when you come out and you're just like, " Something is off today.

It is not my day," and those days just exist and there are days you can turn it around, but it's hard at mile 15, 16 of a marathon.

And you know what?

I think the biggest lesson I took and maybe folks out there who don't have the day they're hoping to have, whether it's in New York or some other race coming up, here's maybe what I learned, is the best thing that you can do on a day when you're not hitting the goals that you had for yourself is to make it all about celebrating people who did have a great day.

And that really turned out to be the best part about my day because I was able to celebrate so many people on the course at the finish line at the hotel throughout the night that had amazing days.

Really, people who are really close to me who set PRs, broke four hours for the first time, got their six- star medal, their Abbott World Marathon Major six- star medal, finished their first marathon ever.

There were so many people that I was able to celebrate and it felt so great to do that.

I had a chance that night to see Susannah Scaroni, who talked about how hard this race is for her because she likes hills and she managed to come out and get a win and perhaps she did the best story of Chicago.

I had a chance that night to see the great Conner Mantz, who did an incredible thing and not just set, shattered the American record in the marathon.

I saw-

I mean, that was a 23- year record, so I'm glad he did absolutely shatter it.

He really did.

And slowed down a bit at the end, by the way.

Said he slowed down a bit because he was feeling a little off at the end.

Was on pace to break it by almost a minute.

He had an incredible day and I got a chance to see him and his family afterwards.

I'm so-

Did you see Clayton on the moto watching his very good friend, training partner, come past him with 300 meters to go of claiming that record?

And those two are thick as thieves.

I mean, you just have to watch the Olympic trials last year to just see how much love and respect they have for each other's skill and passion for running.

And Clayton's face.

Just he just pans the camera and you can see how elated he is for his buddy and that was beautiful to see when...

People say running is a solo endeavor, uh- uh.

No way.

Look at that.

Watch that.

Absolutely.

Congratulations to Connor, to his coach of course, Ed Eyestone, who I saw out there.

Incredible accomplishment.

And then perhaps my favorite celebration and one of the maybe under the radar accomplishments was Joan Benoit Samuelson, who I saw out there a bunch.

She on the 40th anniversary of her win in Chicago, went out there, ran with her daughter, who can run a sub- three marathon.

The two of them ran together and Joni finished in 3: 30 something I think, or low-

3: 38 I think it was.

Unbelievable with a big smile on her face.

And did I ever tell you when I ran Chicago, I ran...

You know the bridge from the start, you go under a bridge and you turn right?

And I ran with her for that on the first, I don't know, few minutes of my Chicago marathon in 2018.

She's again, she's showing the power of longevity.

She's showing the power of passion and badass women just keeping going.

40 years later there she is.

It was truly a great day in Chicago.

So congrats to everybody out there who finished.

We should point out some of the winners.

Of course, Jacob Kiplimo won.

We know him well from New York.

He's run the NYC Half.

He won it in 2:02: 23.

I think on a cooler day, he's under 2: 02 or even under 2: 01, but he had a great day.

Congrats to him.

On the female side, it was Hawi Feysa Gejia from Ethiopia 2: 14: 56.

On the men's wheelchair side, Marcel Hug, another win for him, 1:23:20 there.

And we talked about Susannah Scaroni from the USA, winning on the women's wheelchair side, 1: 38: 14.

So a great day in Chicago.

Congrats to everybody out there.

It was so great seeing so many people from New York Road Runners there.

We had an amazing New York contingent.

So congrats to everybody who ran Chicago.

Absolutely.

Well, with Chicago, done, Rob, we are in the teens.

Oh my gosh, we're in the teens.

It's 19 days today.

So when this comes out, it will be 17 days.

That's right.

We'll be just over two- plus weeks to the TCS New York City Marathon.

Oh my gosh.

I cannot believe it.

I swear last time I looked it was 100 days and it was 60 days and now we're in the teens.

Ready to roll.

And I'm going to do a shameless plug for this because at Peloton we have a fantastic partnership with New York Road Runners and part of that is some special classes that we are releasing in the lead up to the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon.

And Rob, I don't know whether you saw this because you may have been recovering yesterday and not on social for anything other than medals, but we teased it yesterday, and that's Monday, and then when this comes out on Thursday, it will be out, so everyone go and do it.

It is a scenic run talking about the TCS New York City Marathon with the iconic Des Linden and me.

Taking you through the beautiful course, we're talking all things TCS, New York City Marathon.

Des has so much professional and personal insight in that class.

So shameless plug, because it was probably one of my most fun classes that I have recorded and I fangirled the whole time.

If you see any of the video clips, you can just see my smile is ear to ear, getting to chat to Des.

So if you're getting excited about the marathon this year here in New York, head over to OnePeloton and check it out on our app or on your hardware.

Amazing.

Can't wait to check that out.

I'm sure it's phenomenal.

Heard a lot of great buzz about that.

Yeah.

We know there was a lot of disappointment this past Sunday when unfortunately we had to cancel the Staten Island Half, one of the five races in our Five Boroughs series, and that was a really tough call for us to make.

We hate canceling races at New York Road Runners.

We made that decision on Friday when our meteorologists were telling us that we were going to be looking at a pretty severe weather event in the New York City area as we ultimately did get, a nor'easter that came up the coast and caused a lot of wind and flooding, especially coastal flooding, and we know that the Staten Island Half runs along a coastal area.

For part of the route you're running right along the ocean beach area there in Staten Island and an area that's very prone to flooding, saltwater flooding.

So everything we knew on Friday was that that was looking like we were going to be not facing safe running conditions on Sunday.

And part of what factored into it for us was that we know how many people are depending on that race as a long run for their marathon training, and we wanted to make sure people knew far enough in advance if we weren't going to have the race because they could move their long run to Saturday in case Sunday was a day that just wasn't going to be runnable.

So we as always had to spend a lot of time talking to our city partners and agencies, NYPD and Department of Transportation and Parks, and the decision was made collectively Friday that it was not going to be a good idea to try to run a half- marathon with tens of thousands of people on Staten Island that day in terms of the transportation and the staffing of it as well.

So we made the decision, it was at the time a pretty clear decision.

Now, weather being weather, of course the storm took its time getting to us, didn't quite blow in, in its full gusto until probably later in the day Sunday into Monday, and they ended up canceling the Columbus Day Parade on Fifth Avenue on Monday because of the conditions.

So it was a slow developing storm but was as bad a storm as they said it was going to be, especially on the coastline.

So always can look at that and say, " Hey, maybe we could have gotten away with it," but the way we look at these decisions, we're never thinking about, " Hey, could we possibly get away with it?" We're always thinking about making sure that we put people's safety first and also put the runner's experience first so that people know far enough in advance to be able to plan for whatever it is that they're trying to accomplish that weekend.

So we're just as bummed as you are that we weren't able to run Staten Island this year.

We hope to be back next year, but hey, good news for everybody who's running on November 2nd, you'll get your chance to go to Staten Island for the start of the TCS New York City Marathon.

Well, as the excitement starts to build for the TCS New York City Marathon, we know that there was a lot of excitement out there around the medal that we revealed on social media last week, and I just want to say how happy we are at Road Runners that everybody felt so good about the medal.

It was obviously a lot of work that was put into creating something unique and different and our marketing team did a phenomenal job, Toma and Kezia, who were featured in one of our social media posts, congrats to them.

Congrats to everybody on our team to come up with such an iconic and unique medal.

If you haven't heard already, the back of the medal is an elevation profile of the course of the marathon.

You can run your fingers along and you'll be able to relive all the hills and the bridges that you took throughout that run.

So glad everybody loves it.

It's actually one of the most positive things I think I've seen here for us at New York Road Runners and so we're thrilled that everybody's excited about the medal.

Another exciting announcement that we've got as we head up to the marathon week is an incredible grand marshal who will be joining us for this year's TCS New York City Marathon.

New York sports legend CC Sabathia, a former New York Yankees pitcher who was inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame this past summer will serve as the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon grand marshal.

CC is an absolute sports legend in New York.

He was a world champion with the Yankees.

Of course, he's so well- known in New York as a great pitcher and a great guy, was really a leader on the Yankees teams that he pitched for.

But since retiring in 2019, CC has stayed active here in New York through his PitCCh In Foundation, spelled with a CC in the middle of it, a non- profit with programs that equip inner city youth with tools for success in school and on the field.

Sabathia's wife, Amber, also serves on our board of directors at New York Road Runners as the vice chair of our community impact committee.

And so we're so thrilled to have CC Sabathia as our grand marshal.

He will really make it special.

And so thank you to CC, thank you to Amber for agreeing to be our grand marshal this year.

It's going to make it a lot of fun on November 2nd.

As we get closer and closer to the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon, our press release schedule is in overdrive.

Not only did we announce CC Sabathia, but we've got a lot of other exciting announcements, including today's announcement of our 2025 New York Road Runners Hall of Fame class.

With us on the show today, one of the inductees into that class, Olympian and national champion, Jenny Simpson, will join us to talk about her incredible running career, what she's doing now, and what it means to her to be inducted into the New York Road Runners Hall of Fame.

And in the spirit of this year's inductees, today's Member Moment celebrates the NYRR Youth Ambassador Program with one of our stellar alumna of that program, Shivaii Nikam.

Meb will be here later today with his interview with Shivaii.

Then a special pre- marathon Meb Minute with HSS today.

HSS's Mohammed Saad is back on the show with advice on how to finish strong as you head into Central Park on November 2nd.

This episode of Set the Pace is brought to you by Volvo Cars, including the fully electric Volvo EX90 SUV, the official vehicle of the TCS New York City Marathon.

The Volvo EX90 SUV is designed to be the safest Volvo ever made with safe space technology, cutting- edge radars and cameras that help you detect potential risks inside and outside the car, even in the dark, helping to protect you and those around you, because sometimes the moments that never happen matter the most.

Visit volvocars.com/us to learn more about the fully electric EX90 proudly assembled in South Carolina.

New York Road Runners is so proud today to announce our 2025 inductees into the New York Road Runners Hall of Fame.

First, we're proud to bestow this award to Barry Geisler, who was a pioneering force in American youth running and a foundational figure in the early years of New York Road Runners.

Barry was a proud Bronx native and a Korean War veteran who began coaching his own children in the 1960s and loved it so much, he went on to create the first national age group cross- country championships at Van Cortlandt Park in 1966, a landmark event that opened competitive running to girls and boys alike.

As New York Road Runners' president from 1971 to '72 and founder of its age group program, Barry helped build the community- based model of youth running that still thrives today.

He later coached the Milrose Athletic Associations age group team to national prominence mentoring young athletes including future All- American and currently New York Road Runners board chair, Nnenna Lynch.

Barry will always be remembered as the founding father of age group running and the New York Road Runners community honors Barry's legacy every time a child toes a starting line here in New York City.

Our second 2025 inductee to the New York Road Runners Hall of Fame has, like Barry, played a pivotal role in our youth offerings, not only as an ambassador, but as a world- class athlete.

We are so honored to welcome back to Set the Pace 2025 New York Road Runners Hall of Fame inductee Jenny Simpson.

Jenny is a true running legend whose career has spanned the track and the road.

She was the first US woman ever to win a 1500- meter world title and also earn an Olympic bronze medal in that event, amassing four global medals over a 20- year career.

A three- time Olympian and an 11 time US dominated the iconic Fifth Avenue mile in New York with a record eight victories, making her a New York City legend.

In addition to a world champion, Jenny was previously an ambassador and special advisor to Rising New York Road Runners as well.

Of course, that's our free youth running program.

She helped lead Rising New York Road Runners' Active at Home program during the pandemic to provide free and fun fitness activities to kids of all ages and abilities.

And she recently retired from professional racing after finishing the 2024 TCS New York City Marathon.

What better place to wrap up an iconic career?

And we are so thrilled to have Jenny Simpson back on the show.

Jenny, welcome back and congratulations on your induction into the New York Road Runners Hall of Fame.

It could not be more well deserved.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you for having me and thank you for the nostalgic tour through all of how New York has been a through line in my career.

That was really fun.

It really has been.

And I had a chance to call you, I think you'd already heard from an email, but had a chance to call you and congratulate you on being inducted.

I can't think of someone more deserving of this honor.

How did you feel when you first got the news that you were going to be inducted into the Road Runners Hall of Fame?

Well, first of all, it was kind of unexpected, I think because you guys...

I mean, the marathon is kind of like the tent pole for everything you do, and I just wanted to get up to the ability to run the marathon after so many years of Fifth Avenue.

So I was a little bit surprised.

I thought, " Oh, I don't know that I deserve this because I didn't win the marathon.

I didn't send any records at the marathon," but such an incredible honor to bring my work with the youth program, which we can talk about, and also the Fifth Avenue Mile into the Hall of Fame.

So that was really thrilling.

And then I have to say, of all the different honors I've been so lucky to have in my career, the fact that I'm going to have a banner on the finish area of the New York City Marathon is absolute peak for me.

I'm really, really excited about that.

That is incredibly cool, and I will attest to in our great world race chat, that was what Jenny led with in the chat telling everybody.

Not the accolade, the achievement, it was just like, " Hey, guys.

How cool is this?

Look out for it when you're finishing the race," which was the sweetest thing ever to read and really does sum up Jenny as a human, not just an athlete.

But Jenny, the athlete.

Oh my gosh, for one, and two, you are the only athlete, male or female, gender regardless, to win the Fifth Avenue Mile eight times.

So while we're on New York Road Runners' turf here, let's talk about that race.

What was it about that race, or is it about that race that you think gave you this incredible power and tenacity to win it eight times?

Yeah, I am proud of so many of those races, because first of all, we came in and for a long time that race was kind of pitched as it's the end of the year, it's just a lot of fun, just kind of come and have a good time, and I came and I thought, " I mean, New York City is the center of the universe.

If I'm coming to New York, I want to win this thing." And so I just really started taking it very seriously.

And there are so many things that I can think about over the years.

The beginning of the shoe technology really happened with me running down Fifth Avenue Mile with the 5280 that New Balance was creating just for me running the mile on the roads and what kind of foam can we put in here to make this faster." And so bringing road and speed together was really fun.

So taking Fifth Avenue Mile kind of more seriously than ever, I feel like I put an infusion of intensity into it that then started attracting the best milers from all over the world, not just the United States.

But by those two roles I played in that race, it made it harder and harder to win it every year, and so it just leveled up every year.

And I remember really having to combine all of the skills that I had, both speed and endurance and longevity and all of those things, and more than anything, just like race savvy, I had to combine all of those things in order to keep that streak going as long as possible.

But I think one of my favorite things is that I got faster over 30.

I don't know why.

For me, that just felt really important.

My last few races at Fifth Avenue Mile were some of my fastest, and that just felt really great.

It felt like I was continuing to sharpen the spear and get better and better.

And yeah, it added up to eight wins out of nine runs.

I was second to Brenda Martinez once, and Brenda is a type of woman...

I mean, a world medalist in the 800 meters, an amazing teammate and competitor.

But yeah, it just was a long string of me having to be at my very, very best to keep it alive.

Jenny, I'm on the committee to select our hall of fame inductees, and we had a talk, it was actually last year about what it means to be in the New York Road Runners Hall of Fame, and I remember having a conversation and pointing out to the group that it's not the New York City Marathon Hall of Fame, it is the New York Road Runners Hall of Fame, and we put on 40 races a year from distances from a mile to 26.2 miles, and the Fifth Avenue Mile, of course, is one of our iconic events, and if you're going to have a New York Road Runners Hall of Fame and you're going to have the most dominant miler in New York Road Runners' history out there, having just retired from professional running, she's got to be in this hall of fame.

That was clear, and I tell you what, there wasn't much debate about it, Jenny.

I think everybody on that committee knows what you have meant to the organization, what you've meant not just to that event, but to New York Road Runners overall.

And the fact that you've retired running the marathon was just kind of a nice little icing on the cake there, that you did that too.

So we're just thrilled to have a miler up there.

What's it mean to you to be up there in that hall of fame representing the milers and the shorter distance runners who sometimes don't maybe get the recognition they deserve in this day and age where everybody wants to run a marathon?

Yeah.

Well, first of all, thank you.

Thank you for seeing...

What I think is really important is that what New York Road Runners do is so broad, and I think that's what you're speaking to, is that while the marathon is absolutely kind of the center of gravity, and it should be...

I mean, bringing 50,000- plus people from all over the world to do one huge event in maybe logistically the toughest city in the world to pull it off, I mean, it is just really incredible what you guys do every single year.

But what the Road Runners do, and I hope I've been one of the biggest champions in the United States for you guys because I tell people all the time, you put on over 50 races a year, you have all kinds of youth races.

The youth programs literally have reached hundreds of thousands of public school kids.

And so really the broad reach from the city and then beyond, I don't know how you could possibly exist in the city for any period of time and not have at least bumped into something that the Road Runners are doing.

What you guys are doing is just so broad, and so to be part of kind of expanding that idea and that awareness that what you guys do is so much variety.

And so that means that anyone can really find a place where they belong inside the New York Road Runners.

You don't have to be a marathoner.

You can be a miler, you can be a kid, you can be an adult.

There's all kinds of different pockets and places where you can fit in as a New York Road Runner.

Absolutely.

You touched on it very briefly there, the public schools.

And you've said in the past that public school teachers are key to a life change for you.

And what message do you want to pass on to teachers and youth coaches who make those first and very, very important introductions in to running because you're in this great position to shower them with information.

Yeah.

No, thanks for asking that question.

I'm actually going to go back in time a little bit and give everyone a peek behind the curtain because this is a huge testament to the Road Runners.

The kind of executive team at the time, a couple people had approached me, you guys were rebranding and relaunching the kids' youth program and looking for and asking me to come on as an ambassador.

And so we had a couple of conversations and I really appreciated it, the idea of me being involved, but my career was so important to me and I couldn't get to yes for it.

And so finally one of the team at New York Road Runners sat me down and said, " Why is there hesitation?

Why is this not an easy yes for you?" And I said, " Well, I don't really want to just slap my face on something and say I believe in it without really being involved internally and having at least one little voice of say over the vision of what we're doing, and I was a public school kid that that's how I found running.

I would've never found running through my parents or the other social circles that our family was in.

I really found it because of a public school teacher, and so I just have really strong ideas about how we can and should be messaging and servicing people inside the public school system." And they said, " You want to do more?

That's great." So I came on not just as an ambassador, but also as an advisor to the program.

And that made the whole experience just so much more meaningful to me to be able to come in and have internal meetings and have a better understanding, and like I said, my own little vote and voice in what the program was doing and how it was going to be guided into the lives of these young kids.

And so along the way, that was one of the really...

Becs, you got exactly to one of the big things that I really wanted to champion is it's an easy sell to get people excited around helping kids.

The photos are good, the message is good, all of that, but really the heroes are these public school teachers.

They already are doing so much, and when they implement an activity program, an exercise program, oftentimes it's us asking them to do more.

If you reach one coach and you support one coach or educator or teacher, what you're doing is you're supporting hundreds of kids at one time and maybe thousands of kids over the career time of that educator.

And so it just was really important to me that we recognize that and that we did as best job possible, not only supporting them, but also championing who they are and their heart to really speak into the lives of these young kids.

Jenny, thank you for all of that.

And for everybody out there listening to this, maybe you're running your races, doing your thing at Road Runners events, maybe you'll see a kid's race happening on the side.

When you see those kids out there running those races, most of those kids at our events are public school kids, and most of them are there because some teacher decided they care enough about the welfare of these kids to take extra time to go out there and train these kids, coach them up, get them on a bus, go out there on a Saturday or a Sunday, and essentially do that for little or no additional compensation.

They are doing this because they care about these kids.

And so Jenny, I am so glad that you said that, and it really is at the heart of what we do at Road Runners and what happens in communities all over this country.

Every day, every week is teachers going above and beyond the call of duty for the benefit of their kids.

Yeah, and can I add one more thing to that too?

If somebody is listening to this and they're involved in public school, you don't have to know anything about running to be able to implement the curriculum that the New York Road Runners have for Rising New York Road Runners.

The Road Runners have done an incredible job of putting together a curriculum that really can be kind of plug and chug, and so you do not have to have run the New York City Marathon.

You don't ever have to even run around the block.

You don't have to have a track.

I mean, there's programs for 20 kids in a cafeteria and you have 30 minutes.

The thoughtfulness that's put into accommodating all of the different situations that kids and educators are facing...

I just want to encourage, if anyone is working with public school kids and you might be interested in introducing physical activity into the school day or after the school day, check out all free programming and you really, really do not have to have a PE awareness or running education in order to meet the needs of these kids with this curriculum.

And you don't actually have to be in New York either, by the way.

We've got about a hundred thousand kids outside of New York that are part of the Rising program.

And so anybody out there can get their school involved, go to nyrr.

org, find out how to get involved, but it's available for teachers out there all around the country.

So there is no better spokesperson for this than Jenny Simpson.

There really isn't.

I mean, Jenny did it and the pandemic that was how remote it can be, but yet still highly motivating and imperative.

I personally, as a parent...

Imperative for kids' growth and future success-

And confidence, right?

Kids get so much confidence when they get out, they move around, they cheer for each other.

I mean, it is beautiful.

It was so fun to be in the schools and do that for the years that I was working with all of you.

The joy of my career was some of my years with the Road Runners.

I'm going to try to get you to talk about yourself a little bit.

Not always an easy thing to do, but I want to ask you about your marathon career and how now that you've gone through that, right?

You went, you did the trials, you finished your career in New York.

How now do you look back on that?

You did something that's a really hard thing to do, go from being a track athlete and a miler to stretching yourself all the way out to the 26.

2 mile distance, and she sure did.

Yeah, there was no 5k, 10k period, it was a mile to 26.

She took the express lane to 26 miles.

Are you glad you did it?

How do you look back on that kind of effort that you made to be a marathoner for a bit there?

Yeah.

I remember thinking in one of the races, after two hours, I'll be at the part that I'm good at, which is two or three miles to go.

Yeah, it was an enormous jump to go from the mile and doing the track.

I mean, the longest I'd ever raced on the track was a 5k, and to go from that...

I mean, the longest I think I'd ever raced ever was an 8k in cross- country, and to go from that to the marathon was an enormous jump.

I don't think I appreciated at the time, it was more like going from basketball to baseball than from running to running.

It really was taking on a whole new sport.

But there were a lot of things that went into it.

I wanted a new challenge.

I mean, challenge.

I took on a challenge.

I wanted something kind of new and different, but I'm not immune to the things that draw all people to the marathon.

There's this sense of can I really run this at a high level?

Because it's just such a huge undertaking.

You see tens of thousands of people gather in one place to do this huge kind of communal experience together.

And then the training, right?

The training has its own journey, and going on that journey with kind of a smaller meaningful cohort of people.

I live in Boulder, Colorado where I watch people train for the marathon all the time, and it just gets in you.

You just wonder, " What would I be like out there?" And there's a camaraderie and kind of mutual appreciation and respect across marathoners because you know what each other have been through.

And I just wanted a taste of that.

I wanted to be a part of it.

So the truth is, so I ran the trials.

I ran Boston and then I retired at New York.

I really wanted or really expected, honestly, to be better at the marathon than I turned out to be.

I thought the transition would go a little bit easier and smoother, but I'm so, so glad.

There's a couple of things I'm glad that I did it.

I have an experience now that relates so broadly across so many other runners' experiences.

A lot of how I related to people before is they had run a mile in high school or presidential fitness or something.

It really takes somebody with either a lot of intention or they're in the military that they've ever done a mile time trial as an adult or they're running Fifth Avenue Mile.

And so most people have run a mile, but not everyone has timed and tried a hard mile as an adult, but most runners as adults have done a marathon.

So there was just this broadening of the community and relatability and just being able to share those stories.

And then also, I ran all three of those races in the United States, and really it was just the greatest privilege of my career to run for this country.

But when you represent the United States, so much of my track and field career was overseas, and so to be able to close out the last year of my career and have three iconic American races, Olympic trials, Boston Marathon in New York, it just felt for me...

I don't think personally for what fulfills me as a human I'm going to top finishing a marathon in Central Park.

So it just felt like the perfect place kind of personally and metaphorically to kind of close that chapter of my life.

Absolutely.

Let's talk about those three races, because as you say, the gigantic shift from the shorter distances to those longer distances started for you...

Or not started.

The stage opened, let's say, the curtain went up so everyone could see you publicly in Orlando.

And I was there, I was working that event for NBC, and I just remember being so thrilled to see you running and amongst a field that was overwhelmingly awesome for the women.

It was hot.

And it was so freaking hot.

I went for a run at 5: 00 AM that morning and I was sweating my off.

And you guys had to tow the line later that day with the blazing sun.

There was hardly any shade because Orlando was a low- lying town.

There's not much, what was it called, building shadow as well.

Yeah, yeah.

It was really sun.

It was very exposed.

Right.

Very exposed.

And you got to mile 18 was where you said, " Enough's enough on my body." Cramp got the better of you and most of the field, let's be honest that day, and you very honestly withdrew along with huge names.

So for you, what was the human level reaction that day on something that was so big for you on multiple levels?

Yeah, it was big for me and a really important level is that I grew up and found the love of running in Central Florida.

So I went to high school just literally down the way from where we were running, and so in my mind, if you're writing a storybook, it couldn't have come more full circle than me running in Olympic trials.

You're like, " I know this weather.

I'm fine."

Exactly.

And I really do run well in hot weather.

(inaudible) usually for four minutes.

But I did think if anyone can do this, I can do it.

And you have to have that mentality going into any difficult effort no matter what the weather or whatever the challenge.

If you're going to be world- class, it's something you have to believe, " I'm going to be really great at this." You have to have that kind of confidence.

But I think part of the technical side, I do think I made a mistake that other people made as well, that in going down to Orlando for several weeks beforehand, I think a lot of that heat and fatigue from the heat accumulated before the race.

So I think a lot of the damage done was also kind of before the race.

And managing hydration, either over or under hydrating, I think my body was still kind of managing, moving from an arid cold desert in Colorado down to the heat in Orlando, and then getting into the race, I just was already kind of behind the eight- ball.

So I think that was part of the technical side.

But I remember coming up, really my race was over closer to 15 miles, but I got up to where the start finish was.

And I remember having this very lucid thought.

I have two hard choices.

It's going to be hard either way.

Either I step off and I am done here, or I run one more lap of eight miles and it's going to be miserable, and both are going to be miserable.

So in a way, I get to kind of choose my hard.

You're not making the team, you're not going to run some amazing debut time, which by the way, I was really okay and went in thinking, " This is not make the team or bust." I still wanted to have a great debut and I was really hoping to be top 10.

If I was top 10, I was going to be really thrilled because this is my first marathon ever, ever, ever.

So I think I had realistic expectations, but managed all the conditions wrong, which happens.

But I remember thinking, " I can choose my heart here," but as I came up to the start finish area, John and Betsy Hughes, who were race directors for the event, and literally...

So this is what I mean.

They sold me my first pair of running shoes when I was in middle school.

That's how far back I go with the people that were there.

And the streets lined with people that watched me running as a kid.

And so I saw them there and I thought, " No, I need to just have a moment with them, step aside, and then be here and celebrate the three Olympians, the three people that come in and get those spots on the team." And it was such an incredible moment for me personally because all along, everybody in Central Florida and Orlando and Track Shack and John and Betsy Hughes and my parents and everyone, they always tell you, " Oh, we'll love you no matter what.

We're proud of you no matter what," but that's really easy to believe and absorb when no matter what is always that I'm on the podium and I'm doing really well and I'm confident and I feel good and I'm winning Fifth Avenue eight times.

That's easy to believe that everyone will love you no matter what.

But I came and I stepped off the marathon course.

John and Betsy come right out, they give me a hug.

It's probably, I don't know, about 40 minutes or so until the finishers come in.

So we had a few minutes.

And the whole sideline and the announcers, they all cheered for me and were so kind and generous in that moment.

And it was the first time in my life as an adult that I thought, " This is what they mean when it's like we love you no matter what." And I got that really special moment of totally being wrapped up in love and celebration at absolutely my lowest moment.

I'd never dropped out of a race in my life.

And so at my lowest, to be really surrounded by just that kind of unconditional pride and love.

I wrote in my journal about it that night because I just thought, " Oh, hopefully I never have a moment like this again.

Hopefully I get back on the podium and do super well," but man, what an important moment for me as a human.

Yeah.

No, that's beautifully told, that story, and it all makes perfect sense.

And I'm sure sometimes we learn a lot more from those moments where we don't quite hit the mark that we're shooting for.

So it's a beautiful thing.

And then I want to talk about what you're doing these days, which is really...

It's not like you're going to just stop running.

She's just kept going.

No, we will add in the fact that she retired from New York and then, what was it, two or three days later, agreed to do the Great World Race and run seven more marathons.

Yeah, I'd run two plus 18 miles of a marathon in my life and two weeks after the New York City Marathon I had run nine.

So yeah, the Great World Race was a huge bite, a huge endeavor to take on afterwards.

But Becs, that's where you and I met and really became friends.

We were aware of each other, but-

Yeah, we'd never actually spent time together.

Yes.

And Becs got to see me at my absolute, absolute worst and absolute best, as the Great World Race will bring out in people, sleeping on airport floors and just things I would never ever do, but you get reduced to your constituent parts and have to build yourself back up for every successive marathon.

And it was quite a journey, and it was really fun to be on that with you.

Yeah, it really was really fun to be on it with you.

But I feel like it set you up and I mean, Jason, your poor husband got dragged through the last race with you as well.

I felt like I was cheering for him too.

You both were unwell and here you are feeling amazing, going around 50 states running in every single...

I mean, it makes the Great World Race seem kind of easy to me.

Big difference to half- marathons, right, Jenny?

Big difference.

Yeah, exactly.

But still, it's funny-

But relentless.

Yeah, I think that...

Well, I know.

I mean, I look back and I think the Great World Race was like a boot camp for me getting ready for the next thing we were going to do.

So I'd mentioned already earlier in our conversation that being a USA athlete was just a huge privilege for me, and one of the great gifts of my career was for my running to mean something more than just me trying to bring out the best in me, but representing our country.

And so after I finished in New York, I had this kind of wild idea, Jason and I had tossed it around a little bit throughout the year, but I thought, " What if we just take an entire year off from my intense running career, from his work, and 50 states, 50 weeks, let's just go run with as many Americans as possible." So in January we kicked off, we call it affectionately our Run USA Tour, but it's just a personal project.

We're not building anything, we're not selling anything.

We just are hopping around.

We have a schedule.

Every week we go to a new state, we meet up with run clubs and races, and it's run specialty stores, and our whole vision is just to dive into running communities as they exist in every state today, and just spend time with those people on their trails and their runs and the places that they go all the time.

And man, it has been a wild adventure.

It's been a wild year.

It looks it.

I mean, you guys are documenting this on social media, so everybody can follow you @ trackjenny, and see this awesome, awesome journey.

But we are so interested to know if you have come across a race or event or even area that you would tell our listeners that they must put on their bucket list to go and do.

Okay, we're on state number 40, and so I have 40 recommendations of places that you should go, but one of the major ones...

I'll give two answers.

One of the major ones is I think in running so often I am oriented towards racing, training and racing, and to kind of break out of that regimen of training and racing and do some kind of adventure runs, there's a whole other world of people that are doing running that has nothing to do with a clock or a start and finish line, and a lot of that happens in our national parks.

And so Jason and I have really enjoyed...

We ran Rim to Rim at the Grand Canyon, we ran part of Zion National Park, we did Half Dome at Yosemite.

We've done so many runs in national parks.

And to me, I'm like, " Oh, now that..." I have friends that have done incredible things on the track and incredible things on the marathon, and they're kind of looking for what's the next thing.

Ultra is out there, but if you want something kind of in the middle and not necessarily to go for 30- plus miles, some of these courses in our national parks are just really special and not exclusively national parks, like there's a C& O Canal and there's the Appalachian Trail.

There's all kinds of amazing places in this country.

So that's number one answer is just kind of adventure running.

And then the second thing that I would advise everyone and recommend is that we have literally been...

And we're living full- time in a small RV kind of the size of a van.

I don't care where you are in this country, you are less than an hour from somewhere beautiful and somewhere with amazing running.

We've been all over to places I've even been before, and one hour away or 40 minutes away, there's some gorgeous mountains or a gorge or a prairie or some sort of landscape that is just awe- inspiring and we need awe in our life.

And I just want to encourage everyone, it's not far from you.

You don't have to be kind of crazy like us and go get some van and be transient for a year.

You can take a weekend, you can drive 40 or 60 minutes away from where you live and find something that'll just transform your idea of the space that you live.

It's so amazing what you're doing.

My last question before we run out of time here is what were you hoping to get from this experience of running in 50 states and how's that working out?

First of all, the main objective for me spending a year on the road doing 50 states was to avoid answering the question of what I'm doing next.

I was mostly like, " I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm just going to pack up my two dogs, my husband and drive away from my problems." So that was the majority of what I was doing.

Run away.

And run away, exactly.

So all these questions I don't know how to answer, I'm on the road, I'm out.

So that was mission accomplished for sure.

We are now 27, 000 miles away from whatever I was wrestling with in Colorado in December of last year.

But man, we have experienced so much in a year where I feel like there has been a lot of heaviness and darkness in our country.

Jason and I hop place to place and we see the light.

I mean, one- on- one, our human interactions with people, one- on- one person to person.

We are not enemies in this country.

There's so much love, there's so much generosity, and Jason and I feel privileged that we're in a position today when so much is heavy and difficult to really remind people that genuinely we have had an incredible experience with Americans all across this country.

And again, I'll repeat it, there's so much love, there's so much generosity.

Strangers have been good to us, people we've known forever have taken us back in.

It's just been a really uplifting experience, which is contrasted with a lot of what we're seeing on the news and dealing with family and friends and stuff like that.

So that's been a really interesting thing.

And then the second thing, and I could go on and on but I'll try to be brief, but our luxury this year has been our availability.

I don't think I realized how unavailable I was as a professional athlete.

I can't just pick up and go, I can't spend an hour on the phone.

I have such a regimented and disciplined schedule and I think most of us do, and I'll return to that.

This is not a luxury I will have forever, but to have a stretch of time where something comes up with a friend or we're in a new place and we meet someone new and they just have a lot of baggage to let out.

We're here, we're present, we have nowhere to be, we don't have an agenda and being available has just really been an unexpected gift for us to have for other people.

Beautifully said, amazingly said.

Yeah, and something I think a lot of us probably especially this time of year crave because as we're releasing this, it's coming up to the New York City Marathon.

It is after Chicago, it's after Berlin.

People have had a regiment that maybe they've never had before after training for their first marathon and they're like, " I get it.

I get wanting to be available," and my goodness, I hear you.

I feel it.

I sat next to Jenny and her husband at the Pro Athletes dinner for the marathon that she ran and I looked at her and I said, " I've been around politics a little in my life and I know a great political candidate when I see one, and you, Jenny Simpson would be a great political candidate." So I have no idea if that is something you are thinking about in your life, but if you are and...

Taking running to the next level, she is.

That's right.

That's right.

I don't even know what party Jenny Simpson is and I don't care, because if Jenny Simpson ever runs for anything, let me know, I'll be among the first to donate because you get it.

You get it.

That's the bottom line.

That means a lot.

I appreciate it.

And she's going to a high probability of winning because she's so badass.

Jenny, we are out of time, but we're going to get a lot more time with you in the weeks to come as you come to New York to accept the honor of being inducted into our New York Road Runners Hall of Fame.

Cannot wait to see you.

Enjoy your last few runs here.

I know you're in Maine as we speak today, so enjoy that and congratulations.

Thank you for everything you've done for this organization and we can't wait to honor you in New York.

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Peloton, an official partner of the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon.

This week's member moment features someone who represents the next generation of New York Road Runners.

Shivaii Nikam joined the NYRR Youth Ambassador program back in 2019 and today she's a junior at Brooklyn Tech and a proud member of her school's cross country and track teams.

She sat down with them to talk about how running and leadership have shaped her life journey.

Thanks, Rob.

Shivaii, welcome to Set the Pace Podcast.

How's it going today?

It's good.

How are you doing?

I'm doing well.

Thanks for asking.

You joined the Youth Ambassador program in 2019 and have been an alumni ever since.

Looking back, how do you think that experience shaped you as a runner and as a student?

As a kid, I was always pretty extroverted, but one thing that scared me was all eyes being on me.

So I think being a youth ambassador, it definitely helped me with my public speaking skills, but I definitely can recognize where the skills I learned from that kind of affected other parts of my life.

So with running, I became more involved with the community, and before I had just been running races when I was a kid, but then I got the opportunity to speak at Team for Kids and then the TCS Marathon, I even got to go to NASDAQ for the New Year's Eve closing bell one year.

And then during the pandemic I created videos with NYRR on social issues and then also addressing ways to stay active and Title IX.

And I think those opportunities opened my eyes and allowed me to realize that there's so many reasons to run and that just encouraged me even more because I wanted to be involved even if it was just on an individual level.

And I realized that it was just a bigger community that...

I don't know.

Even today it makes me want to get out and run because it connects so many people.

And then when it comes to school and everything, I realized that being a youth ambassador didn't just affect the running world for me, but it had a big impact on my academic life and I stopped getting nervous about presentations and I started to actually look forward to speaking out more and I realized that my voice had power and I wasn't really holding back from that anymore, and I built a lot more confidence in myself from that.

And I think finally, it was just I got to speak to a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds and not only did I grow more on my own voice, but I got to become a better listener, which I think helps a lot with leadership and group activities in school.

So that's that.

Well, you're a great youth ambassador and a well- spoken and very powerful person, but let's go look.

I know you had said a few things there, but let's get to the nitty- gritty of it.

How have your skills shown up on your cross- country and track team at Brooklyn Tech?

I think the main thing is that I started to look at running as more than just a sport.

I saw it as a community, I saw it as a way to connect to people.

On track, it was the first few people that I had met, I was spending every day after school with, I was spending my weekends with.

So it just really built and fostered this close- knit type community for me.

And I think that being a youth ambassador, it showed me, again, all the opportunities that I listed before, it showed me that it was just something bigger and that the public speaking, it shaped my attitude towards the sport overall, so wanting to be there and cheering for my teammates and everything.

Absolutely.

And you said earlier you were part of the NASDAQ and going there and you helped create a video for the 50th anniversary of Title IX.

What did the project teach you about the role of sports creating opportunities for girls and for women?

I think it showed me just how powerful of a role sports play in social conversations and then going back to...

I keep going onto it about how sports help create a strong community, but I really think it does.

You share common interests with these people in a group and you create so much change just being united as one.

And I think that just a few girls and women coming together and being like, " We need sports to be this inclusive space," it opens the door for so many other young girls and women around the world, especially in our country, and running does that and I can see it with running.

Just my own personal experience, being on a team, being able to be with 50 other girls running every weekend and stuff, I can see the effects of stuff like Title IX.

Shivaii, I tell people sports is a great way to icebreaker and as Nelson Mandela, former president of the South Africa, says, sports unites us more than anything else.

But you have run on your school's cross- country and track teams for the past two years.

What's your favorite distance or event and why?

My favorite event is probably the 800 meters during outdoor track.

I love all seasons and I think my favorite season is indoor season, but for some reason the 800 meter during outdoors is my favorite.

I think it's the perfect balance between sprinting and distance and even for cross- country races or road running for that matter, the last half a mile I get so excited.

So this is just the highlight of my entire run.

And yeah, even for workouts, I think 800- meter reps were my favorite for the past few years.

Pretty awesome.

I'm a cross- country coach here at Plant High School.

How's your cross- country season going so far?

This season I actually have to take a break for school and stuff, but hopefully next season I do indoor.

Just a lot of stuff, college prep and everything, so that's conflicting it.

But I mean, I've been running on my own recently and keeping up with my coaches' workouts as much as I can and then just cross- training and everything.

Your love for the run is still there.

Yeah.

For young kids who might want to follow your footsteps, what would you say is the biggest lesson you took away from being a youth ambassador?

I think the biggest thing is just saying yes, and I think that that ends up being the scariest part of any process to starting any opportunity.

It's really easy to doubt yourself and to be nervous about trying something new, but with saying yes, you've just opened the doors for so many different things and anything becomes possible after then.

So anytime I said yes to speaking, I listed all those opportunities, TCS and NASDAQ.

I was able to go to those things just because I faced my fear of talking in front of a group of people and stuff, and I walked away with more confidence and more experiences that I was genuinely so happy to be a part of and so happy I didn't shy away from.

So even if you're a little nervous, just go for something.

You're going to be happy you did it and you're going to be really happy you said yes.

So I think that's the biggest thing.

Well, Shivaii, great to have you on the podcast.

You've done so much as young as you are and wish you all the best in the future.

Thank you.

Keep up the great work.

Thank you.

We're so glad to welcome back Mohammed Saad to Set the Pace for today's Med Minute with HSS.

Mohammed is a physical therapist with the hospital for special surgery who specializes in treating both surgical and non- surgical orthopedic cases.

At HSS, he's part of the performance team conducting running mechanics assessments to help athletes prevent injuries.

Mohammed is also an avid runner and triathlete himself with a special interest in endurance and ultra- distance training with the TCS New York City Marathon and Abbott Dash just a couple of weeks away, he'll share what marathoners can learn from the world of ultra- running and how to finish strong on race day.

Great to have you as always.

You have done work on running mechanics, a distance that get longer.

What are the small form of breakdowns you see most often and how can runners protect themselves in the final miles of the marathon?

Yeah, for sure.

Definitely as the miles increase and kind of later into those long runs, we see a couple of common breakdowns in form.

The three most common ones that I see, especially when doing running mechanics assessments, is a significant increase in the forward trunk lean.

So runners starting to lean a little bit more forward as their core fatigues.

You see a pretty significant drop in cadence, so runners kind of accidentally start overstriding and then you see a reduction in the arm drive, which a lot of people kind of neglect.

You forget that arm drive actually helps propel you forward and can ultimately throw off kind of your whole kinetic chain.

And then sometimes with maybe some beginner runners, you see a loss of hip extension and people kind of start shuffling a little bit, so their stride isn't quite as long.

A couple of things that I like to encourage people to do to kind of protect against this or prevent this from happening at the end of a run is not only just training your aerobic engine that every runner does as they increase mileage, but also strengthening your core, increasing your hip range of motion and just incorporating general strength work, especially core and glutes, so that you kind of withstand a little bit more of that failure of form and you can hold your form under fatigue.

Excellent, excellent insight, Mohammed.

I tell my runners similar.

It's not about just running the miles but doing the small things that make a big impact, and especially with a form as long as a marathon or ultra marathon, but let's get to the...

A marathon is already an endurance test, but when you work with ultra runners, you are looking at even bigger scale.

What lessons from the ultra world can marathoners apply in this last few weeks before a race day?

Yeah, absolutely.

One thing you can tell a runner regardless of distance is listen to your body, obviously.

In the ultra world, you kind of learn to respect your effort over your ego.

It's a long distance, so you have to really be in tune with your body and go by how you feel.

Don't worry about chasing numbers, just run within your comfort zone and push that pace a little bit, but within reason.

The other thing that you'll hear, whether it's running a half- marathon all the way up to an ultra marathon that we talk about a lot is fueling.

Very, very important.

A lot of times it's kind of like the second discipline of endurance running, being able to fuel well.

In an ultra, you learn pretty quickly that if you fall behind on nutrition, your race is pretty much over and almost the same thing can be said for a marathon.

Once you hit that wall, it's really, really hard to come back.

You can't just tough it out when you're dehydrated or running low on glycogen stores.

It's really important to practice that fueling throughout your training process, especially during the last few long runs.

I know people who were training for the New York City marathons are kind of finishing up some of their long runs, whether it's last weekend or this coming weekend.

So you want to practice fueling during those.

And then ultimately, ultra running and marathon running, it really teaches patience, right?

You have to keep in mind that a marathon is not a sprint.

You have to pace yourself and really be patient in those beginning miles.

When your legs feel really good and you don't feel winded at all, really practice patience and hang on so you can have some energy for the end.

Great point.

Mohammed, patience is a virtue, but when you are lined up in Staten Island and you got to go up that hill and adrenaline is kicking in, caffeine is kicking in, what would you tell somebody?

Because I know from ultra I tell people marathons are a long way.

It's not a sprint, but it becomes an ultra marathon when you hit the wall.

So patience, what is one or two lessons I can say what makes them to be patient at the start of the line?

Yeah, absolutely.

I like to remind, whether it's my friends or people who are just getting into running, I remind them that you've been training for the past 3, 4, 5 months, for some people 18 weeks at times.

The work's already done.

You've already done the hard part.

Now it's your job to just show up fresh and ready and fit, not overly fatigued.

So those last few weeks, it's really about absorbing your training, not trying to get more and more fit.

It's really about letting that training settle in and not necessarily adding to it.

Sometimes with the nervous energy and people are so used to running long miles the week before the race, they really want to get out there and kind of loosen up and get rid of some of that impatience or that extra energy, and I tell them the work is already done, you kind of have to sit with this maybe a little bit of exciting nervousness because you don't want to do too much too close to the race.

So patience is a virtue.

Temptation is hard, especially when you've been doing a lot of miles routine and things like that.

When would be the last day that you said, "You know what, you can run 70 minute or 75 minute."?

When would be the last day before close to the race in your opinion?

I usually would say depending on your taper, if some people like to taper for about two weeks, you want to do that last a little over an hour, longer run, probably maybe a week and a half out.

The week of, I try not to go anywhere over an hour just so that you can show up to the race day feeling fresh.

Being patient packs a big dividend, but getting to that finish line is important.

So for ultra runners or marathoners getting ready for November, what advice do you have for the last few hours or the last few days after the race in terms of recovery?

Yeah.

First and foremost, most important thing, celebrate.

Be very proud of your accomplishment.

You've been working for this for months, so take a minute.

Regardless of whether you hit your ultimate goal or not, be proud of yourself and celebrate.

One of the things that's kind of funny, I ran the New York City Marathon last year and one thing a lot of people complain about but is actually really good for you is that long walk through Central Park before you can exit on the west side.

A lot of people say, " Man, I really just want to get out of the park," but in reality, it's really good for you to continue to take a short walk.

You don't want to have been running for who knows how long, whether you're a two- hour marathon or a six- hour marathon, you don't want to finish that race and immediately stop and sit down.

A short walk after the finish usually helps start that recovery clock.

Once you have walked a little bit, then that's when the shift really transitions to focusing on hydration, making sure your electrolytes are balanced.

You've been running for however many hours, you've obviously lost a lot of electrolytes through that.

So making sure you get your electrolyte balance back in.

And then refueling with some protein and carbs because ultimately that's how your body's going to refuel and replenish itself and start to rebuild those muscles that you just put through a pounding.

And then in the days after, it's important to soak in that excitement and you want to start planning your next race, but don't rush into it.

Let your body relax a little bit so that you don't prepare yourself for potential injury.

So a few days off, some active recovery, some movement right after the race and focusing on refueling,

You answered it already, but as someone who lives endurance in your own training, what do you think marathoners sometimes overlook when they are focused so much on time goals?

Yeah, I'm guilty of this myself in that we're so focused on time goals that we kind of overlook the excitement and the joy that's in the process itself.

The race itself is the goal, but you really have to enjoy the process in getting towards that goal.

So definitely enjoy the training process itself, but also focusing a little bit too hard on time goals.

Whatever your time goal is for the race can sometimes cause you to ignore how your body is feeling and your body might be giving you signals that like, " Hey, we can maybe even go faster," or, " We need to kind of take it a little bit easier so that we can make it to the finish line." So one kind of mantra that I like to think about when I'm running and maybe my race isn't going as well as I'd hoped, is adjusting is not failing.

Adjusting is your body's way of being resilient and accommodating to conditions and ultimately that's what racing smart is all about, adjusting to the conditions.

You've trained your entire maybe 16 to 18 weeks in 60 degree weather and you show up on race day and it's 80 degrees, you're going to have to adjust to that.

You can still chase your goals, but kind of stay flexible.

I completely agree.

You have to adjust, you have to be flexible and you have to have goals, A, B and C.

Just because goal A is not going well doesn't mean throw the towel, finish as strong as you can, as I say.

Sometimes run to win, it doesn't mean get in first place, but getting the best out of yourself.

So much great things, Mohammed.

Appreciate you've been on the show.

Absolutely.

Thanks for having me and best of luck to everyone running.

All right, that does it for another episode of Set the Pace and what an episode it was.

We want to thank our guest today, Jenny Simpson, Shivaii Nikam and HSS's Mohammed Saad.

If you like this episode, please go ahead, rate the episode, subscribe, leave a comment, that'll help others find the show as well, and we'll also respond to your questions if you have a question in those notes as well.

Good luck to everybody who's starting to taper for New York City on November 2nd.

Hope to see you out there.

Enjoy the miles.

We'll see you next week.