You're really in this huge pack of women and there's this camaraderie and this spirit of we're in it together and we're all working towards the same goal.

It's such a good vibe and I think, if you approach it with the right mindset, it really takes a lot of the hard effort out of running really hard for 26 miles.

Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton.

I'm your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road Runners, and Becs Gentry from Peloton fame joins me this week as she does just about every week.

Hey, Becs, what's up?

Hi.

Hi, good.

Freezing like Frosty the Snowman right now, but you know what?

The sky is blue, so I can't help but just feel that it's perfect timing for the festive holiday period to kick off.

It's definitely a good way to get into the holiday spirit if you want that feeling of cold and that biting nip in the air.

Boom chilling.

We've got that.

We don't have the snow yet.

No white Christmas on tap here yet, but-

It was white for me this whole weekend up at the lake house.

Oh, snow up there, beautiful.

It's been white since last Wednesday.

Wow.

And it's not thawed out and it keeps sprinkling every night, so it's just more and more.

The ski mountain is open, so-

Wow, that's very New York, right?

...

it felt very festive this weekend.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Those places where it snows and it just stays white all winter up in the northern climbs, but here in New York, it's just cold and it's been cold and it can be challenging for folks to run in some of this.

We've talked about-

Sure, it can.

...

it before, but some people love it.

You've got that dichotomy of folks who love going out in the cold weather and there's a lot to be said for it obviously.

It's certainly refreshing.

Right.

It is.

But you want to cover up when it's this morning, we're talking Tuesday, it was 15 degrees in Central Park this morning.

So when it's that cold-

Yeah, that wind chill.

...

you got to cover up, you got to deal with the extremities that are going to freeze.

The lotion on the face, the thick Vaseline, Aquaphor, whatever you want to use, has to be on your nose and your face.

Ooh, yeah.

It definitely gives you the glow though.

I did a little run on Thanksgiving Day actually and it was freezing, but I had rosy cheeks and the glow on the skin for the rest of the day, which looked good.

So we'll take it.

Yeah, it feels good.

I want to talk about your running actually, Becs, a little bit.

We talked a lot about me and my running in the fall.

I'm not running much now because I'm really recovering from-

You had a good year.

I had a good year, but I'm taking a break now.

My body has told me in no uncertain terms that it's ready for a break.

So we're taking some downtime from much running, a lot of cross- training now, but I want to talk about you and your running.

Obviously, a year ago this time, you were still in the afterglow, if you will, of that incredible Great World Race, which is such an undertaking.

I can only imagine the " hangover" from that could easily last you a year plus.

You're obviously still running for Peloton on the treadmill with your instructing, but where are you with your running right now and what are you thinking about for the year ahead?

Good question.

The running hangover from The Great World Race was long.

It was like one of those delayed hangovers.

If you've had one too many drinks, you wake up and you're like, " I feel fine," and then mid afternoon hits, you're like, " Oh God."

Not so fine.

Not so fine anymore.

That was me midway through the year of like, " I'm not good.

I'm not good.

I need to slow down here." So I'd say the last six months have been about regenerating my body.

And as I'm approaching 40, just lucky enough to have access to some great healthcare providers here in New York and through my job and my role, just get those biomarkers back to where my body's happy.

So I say I'm lucky enough because I know not everyone has access to that, but I personally have always been very interested.

I like that Frankenstein side of things of like, " Okay, if I need to manipulate certain things to be healthier, I will do my best." And it's been eye- opening and refreshing to not be running all the time, running when I want to, when I feel like it.

And some days where I don't even know (inaudible) , it's nice to do that, but I do like goals.

I do like to challenge myself and I am ruminating on whether after this past weekend, watching the incredible California International Marathon, which we're going to talk about more with our guests, but watching that finish line celebration of so many women of similar age to myself, full- time jobs, quite a lot of moms in there who qualified for the Olympic trials, just in my mind, I'm like, " Can I do it again?

Can I try again?" or my flipside is I started out racing the trails and I'm also very, very compelled to go back to adventure racing.

So I'm in two minds.

I'm going to start training in the new year and see where my body guides me to go because I think, for me, it will all depend on how I feel training at those speeds again.

And I have to give myself the time and the grace to adapt to that because it's been a minute and I know it's going to take a good couple of months of like, " Ooh, I hate this.

It's horrible and it's painful," because it is, but then if my body doesn't react well to it, then maybe it will be trails.

So we'll see.

I think-

All right.

...

by the time I turn 40, I'll have an answer for you.

Okay.

When's that again?

I forget.

When's your birthday?

March.

March, okay, so-

End of March.

...

putting that on my calendar (inaudible) birthday anyway, but we'll come back to this in March and see where 40- year- old Becs is thinking, what she's thinking about her next adventure.

But yes, the Olympic trials are out there and they're certainly there for you.

And we are speaking of Olympic trials talking to an American who qualified for the 2028 Olympic trials run-

Yes, she did.

...

a little bit later on in the show and it's a great story.

Caitlin Phillips, she's a New Yorker.

She's qualified now for the fourth time for the Olympic trials, but this was the first time she's done it since having a child.

So 43- year- old mother running this kind of a time to qualify for the Olympic trials, it always amazes me and I can't wait to talk to Caitlin about her experience and how she does it.

I know that there's so many women who listen to this podcast who find those conversations inspiring, not because they're going for the Olympics maybe, but because they're going for their PR or whatever it is that they're trying to achieve post- 40, maybe post- motherhood, whatever it might be.

So Caitlin's conversation will definitely get you fired up, no doubt about it.

Speaking of fired up, we had over 4, 000 fired- up runners out at the Ted Corbitt 15K this past Saturday.

They needed to be fired up because it was cold as the theme of our conversation has been this morning and we had ...

That's a race that we expect to have in the neighborhood of 5, 000.

So we had a lot of folks not make it to the starting line on Saturday, which was not surprising, because when I walked out of my apartment on Saturday morning to walk up to that race, it was snowing.

It was actively snowing in the city.

There was a little glaze of snow on the ground and it actually-

It was.

...

worked out fairly well with the timing of that.

The roads were in pretty good shape by the time we started, but it was definitely a chilly run to run in honor of Ted Corbitt, of course, one of our real heroes at New York Road Runners, the Father of Long- Distance Running, the founding president of New York Road Runners, the first African American to compete in the Olympic Marathon and an incredible legend and one of the real founding fathers of New York Road Runners.

So always a great event and it was great to have that crowd out there.

And I think people at the finish line felt good, Becs.

They felt happy to have gotten-

I'm sure.

....

themselves out there and covered that 15K-

Hot chocolate in hand, warming up, putting those layers back on.

I saw some fantastic pictures, Rob, I will say.

There was, whether it was from our Ted, our current Ted.

Ted Metellus.

Ted Metellus, whether it was from his Instagram when he arrived in the wee hours of the morning for the setup in the snow to the runners.

And the smiles on everyone's faces in their little bobble hats and their gloves, just getting it done, it truly looked like a wonderful morning.

And if you listened to the podcast last week, everyone, you know how envious I am of everybody running this race regardless of the weather.

So it made me very happy to see the smiles and the joy and the medals and the hot chocolates.

Yeah, absolutely.

And the results on the women's side, Felicia Pasadyn won the race.

49:49 was her time and I was holding the-

Wow.

...

tape for all the winners on Saturday, Becs.

Felicia was like running her own race.

She was so far ahead-

With that time, no surprise.

...

of the other women.

There was no one close.

I think she won by a minute.

At least it felt like that.

Wow.

She was way, way out in front.

Good for her.

We'd have to confirm that if we look at the results, but she had a big win.

The Nonbinary winner was Charlie Hoskins, 56: 14.

And on the men's side, it was Issame El jazouli, 47:02 for United Mexican Runners of New York.

Brilliant.

So congratulations to all of them.

You mentioned CIM, Becs, and that was this past Sunday, the California International Marathon.

And it was a record number of men and women qualifying for the Olympic trials.

55 women ran under the Olympic qualifying standard of two hours and 37 minutes.

52 men ran under that Olympic qualifying standard of two hours, 16 minutes flat.

These times.

The times just keep getting faster.

They did.

And last year, there were 173 women qualified for the trials, 227 men overall.

Total.

Overall, from all races.

That's at how many races?

That's at a handful of races.

Yeah, not more than a handful.

A lot of races over multiple years.

So to have that many qualify only one race.

Yeah, we're already-

I know CIM is a popular race for qualifying, but pretty impressive.

And it just shows, Becs, how people are just getting faster and faster.

Truly, it's inspirational, when you watch people around you doing certain things, you are compelled to try.

And I think that is it.

I think it is a huge testament to representation.

There are more people who see people who look like them doing these things.

So there's more people being drawn to the sport because they feel like they can succeed.

So to every single person who is lacing up to run whatever your race, whatever your distance, whatever your time, you're not just doing it for you.

You're doing it for so many other people.

And this is what is so wonderful about this sport is, it is bringing strengths out and we love to see it shine.

And I can't wait for you all to hear Caitlin's story, our guest today, on her experience of this weekend as well.

But those winner times, I was on the floor seeing some of these winning times and it doubled down as the 2025 USATF Marathon Championships and you've got a debut on the women's side from Molly Born and she came in with a 2: 24:09, her first marathon and she just cracks out this time.

I think I looked on her Instagram.

I swear she had like 1, 134 followers and I think she's a Puma Elite athlete and I was like, " Oh my goodness, this girl's life has just changed exponentially in this effort and power that she put in." And-

You got to get her on Set the Pace by the way.

(inaudible) our notes to Matt Singer, Kathryn Jones, our team to

100%.

Molly, if you're listening, please come on.

get Molly Born on Set the Pace because I can't wait to hear her story of having-

Absolutely.

...

that success in her marathon debut.

Yeah, 100%.

And men's winner, Futsum Zienasellassie with a 2:09: 29, which is just jaw- on- the- floor inspiring.

You have to look at the UK time as well.

Alexi, the triathlete guy (inaudible) ...

He broke the marathon record for ...

No, sorry.

He's the second fastest now.

He's second fastest of all time over the marathon, but he is a triathlete.

So it's just to see-

Wow.

...

all of these changes and these people just trying these different things and excelling.

It was such a great weekend for it.

We know the shoes are fast and we know that's part of the story, but I don't think it's the whole story, because as we talk about actually with Caitlin, there's so much more knowledge out there about how to attack the marathon distance and we're seeing people really start to excel because of that knowledge.

And yes, a little bit because of the shoes as well, but it's certainly inspiring to see what people are capable of.

All right, so Caitlin Phillips, coming up in just a minute.

And then today's member moment is with Dr.

Melissa Melkonian, the founder of the American Dream School in the Bronx, who not only uses marathon running as a tool to foster her own personal empowerment, but also has been the impetus for many of her school's staff and parents to run their first marathons as well.

So she's coming up with Meb.

And then are you having a hard time hitting your speed goals in this cold December weather?

That might be a good thing, because on today's Meb Minute, Meb's going to talk about how to benefit from going slow.

That's coming up in just a little while.

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Today's guest is another one of these super marathon moms that we've been meeting a lot of on Set the Pace over the last couple of years.

Caitlin Phillips is 43 years old and this past Sunday she ran a 2: 36:07 at the California International Marathon, fast enough to qualify for the 2028 US Olympic Trials Marathon.

Sunday's run marks her fourth time hitting the Olympic trial standard and achievement she's reached while holding down a full- time job in the beauty industry and returning to competition after giving birth.

And these are accomplishments that I will never be able to understand.

I will certainly never obviously achieve them and let alone even fathom them, but, Caitlin Phillips, welcome to Set the Pace and congratulations-

Woo.

...

on a spectacular time at CIM.

Thank you so much and thanks for having me.

Very flattered by the intro.

So super happy to be here.

We are so happy to have you here.

We've known each other nearly nine years.

I was just trying to remember ...

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

On and off through the running world, New York City, I always say that New York City brought out the runner in me because of being around women like you who were just so fierce, still are and just had this drive to achieve in everything that you do.

And as Rob has pointed out, your resume both personally and professionally is incredible, but it's astounding to look at Sunday's starting line and finishing line and see so many women with personal and professional resumes just like you, moms, full- time jobs and kickass runners.

What was it like showing up on Sunday and feeling that energy?

I think CIM is an incredible race.

There's not really another race like it.

And I think I have to shout out Danielle Domenichelli, who runs the elite field at CIM for just setting athletes up to have the best possible race experience.

And she's just really great.

And I think, yeah, there's no other races where you have this focus around the sub- elites as much as CIM does.

So yeah, I'm really grateful for her and for the opportunity to have been a part of the field.

It's just such a different type of race where you're really in this huge pack of women and there's like this camaraderie and this spirit of we're in it together and we're all working towards the same goal.

So yeah, it's such a good vibe.

And I think, if you approach it with the right mindset, it really takes a lot of the hard effort out of running really hard for 26 miles.

Yeah.

55 women, Caitlin, ran under the Olympic standards, so it speaks to what you're saying.

Can you talk about the experience?

You're saying CIM's different and it sounds like it ...

What makes it special and what was it like to run with that kind of crowd and that kind of pack of sub- elite, as you call them, it's pretty elite to me if you're qualifying for the Olympic trials, but what's it like running with a field like that?

It's pretty wild.

So there were two pacers for the OTQ standard at this race, and essentially, I was just like, " I'm going to throw myself in the back of this pack and just see how long I can hang on." But the pack is just endless.

You're just surrounded.

And again, it's pretty incredible energy just being in a race like that versus, let's say, if you're in an elite field in New York or Boston, chances are if you're in the 2: 30s, you're going to spend a lot of the race solo, which can be a really hard way to run.

So again, I think, if you can really use this pack energy, it really takes a lot of the mental effort that you're using up during the race and you're able to just go with the flow, and then eventually, it's going to get hard.

You know it's going to get hard, but I think sticking with that pack mentality for the first 20, 21 was incredibly helpful and took a lot of the stress out of, " Am I where I need to be?" But yeah, and I think Danielle and the whole team at CIM does such a good job of making sure that sub- elites want to run their race and they have a pretty good setup in terms of athlete fluids and hotel support.

And aside from all those things, there's usually really optimal weather at CIM.

It's a net downhill course.

It's a hard course or I wouldn't say it's a hard course, but it's a lot hillier than I think a lot of people anticipate too.

It's undulating, isn't it?

Exactly.

And then you get to the later stage of the race where it's like down and flat, but yeah, the beginning I would say is quite rolling.

Oh my gosh.

Okay, so let's roll it back.

This is the fourth time you've qualified, which is unreal.

This will be, if all goes well, your third time running in the Olympic trials.

First of all, it was back in 2016 and you ran the trials in LA, right?

Yeah, mm-hmm.

Let's think about mentality, 2016 versus two days ago, what was going through your mind?

Did you pull from all of that experience on Sunday or are you in a completely different mindset?

A little bit of both, I guess.

This was ...

Well, to preface, I ran Chicago or I started Chicago in October of this year, but prior to that, I hadn't raced since 2022 before I had a baby.

And CIM 2022 was my last marathon.

So I feel like I was a little bit out of racing shape, if that makes sense, but I think all of these key things with having a pack, having pacers, having bottles, that was a little bit of a, " Okay, I'm back in a groove here and I know how to do this." But yeah, 2016 trials, I guess I was 33- ish at the time.

And I felt like a baby in terms of my marathoning experience.

So it was very much a like, " Oh, wow, I'm here and so is Kara Goucher and Shalane Flan ..." And at that time, I was just very much in shock and awe of the whole thing and going into a race on Sunday, it's great, because honestly, so many people from so many eras of my running life were there and it's just really nice to be like, " I had my friends from Boston.

I have my friends from New York," and it was just a really nice community- type experience where ...

And a lot of us were going for the trial standard, so it was nice to just be ...

We're all in this together, trying to work together during the race to make it happen.

It's pretty incredible.

So you ran in college as well, right, Caitlin?

Was that the beginning?

I did.

Yeah.

I'm sure you ran before that, but what distance did you run in college?

I ran the 5K.

I ran cross country.

I would run the mile leg of our DMR, so a little bit of everything.

I never tried the 10K in college.

My team was primarily a lot of 800 milers on my team.

So I was the long- distance person.

Yeah.

Going beyond 5K was not your thing and then you took a break from running, I'm told after college, which is normal.

A lot of people are ready for a break.

And then I heard a story that, in 2009, you went out to a track in Brooklyn and you ran a couple of miles and you ran barefoot.

This is the Caitlin Phillips lore.

You ran barefoot because you didn't have any running shoes.

And what was that about?

And I guess what moved you to start running on that track without shoes in 2009?

Very dramatic of me.

Look, I think ...

I can't remember.

I had had a long break.

I had moved to New York I think a couple years before that.

I was primarily focused on work and going to grad school and I wasn't in the best place mentally speaking.

And I think running throughout my life has always been something that grounded me.

And at that point, I really needed some grounding.

So yeah, I went to the track and I started running again.

What better way to get grounding than to run barefoot where you're actually touching the ground with your bare feet?

Exactly.

That seems like a good way to do it.

Scares the living day that's out of me though that it was McCarren Park of all the places that you could be barefoot.

I'm like, " Oh my gosh, wow."

Very, very traumatic.

It's a great park.

It's a great track, but you're right.

There are things over-

It's a great track now.

Right.

Seriously in 2009, there are things you could have stepped on.

It's good that didn't happen to you.

And then your first attempt at the marathon distance was about a year later in New York in 2010 and that didn't go so well, we're told.

No, no.

Tell us about that a little bit.

Well, I think I had no idea what I was doing.

I had signed up as a marathon originally like, " Oh, I just want to run and finish," and running is something that I used to do," and then as I started getting back into it and training a bit, I must have been running maybe, I don't know, 50, 60 miles a week, nothing crazy.

I started getting that mental like, " Oh, I want to see what I can do.

I want to see if I can break three hours," kind of thing.

But yeah, I had no clue what I was doing.

I didn't consume a single calorie during the race.

Oh my gosh.

And I know I will sound like a thousand years old when I say this, but in 2010, there wasn't the access to coaching and just marathon knowledge in general was like, yeah, you could pick up a book of course and I was probably too lazy and busy at the time to do that, but yeah, I just didn't really know what I was doing.

Yeah.

And running wasn't as in vogue as it is now where everyone and their mother is talking about how to fuel and there's not 500 brands that you can try.

Yeah, so tell us-

No super shoes, no coaches, no nothing.

I barely had a garment at the time.

I think I got a garment for the race.

So what happened in the race?

I know, but tell the listeners what happened in that 2010 marathon.

So yeah, I think I went through halfway, probably, I want to say it was around 125 ...

I mean, I made a lot of stupid first- timer mistakes.

I went out too hard.

I didn't fuel.

I didn't have any fluid.

At 18, I was like ...

Maybe at 16, I started getting a little woozy, blackout, and then by 18, I was done.

Yeah, the old DNF-

So I (inaudible) for a while.

...

which is not unheard of to not finish one's first marathon, especially when you weren't just out there for a stroll.

You were out there trying to run a time and a fast time because that's what you had done in your career as a runner before.

That's what I knew.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So how did you go from there, those first- timer mistakes, which are fantastic learnings, to with six years, less than six years, qualifying for the Olympic trials?

Well, I think, at the time, I was part of a team, New York Athletic Club and there were a lot of post- collegiate athletes running for NYAC at the time and I was inspired by the ...

I didn't necessarily ever think that I would qualify for trials, but I thought it was cool and I got reengaged in running again and it was really nice to be around people that had goals around running amongst all the other life things that people were doing.

So yeah, I think that was kind of a big motivator.

And then eventually, I met my coach, Terry Shea, through one of my NYAC teammates, Sarah Cummings.

And not to say that coaching is everything, but I think Terry was a big piece of the puzzle for me because I didn't really understand a lot about the distance and how to do it.

I was ready to execute, but I didn't really have a framework for how to make it happen.

So Terry was really, really crucial for me there.

That's awesome, giving you the guidance and how to get through, the fueling.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

That is awesome.

So that led you on to this climb in your personal running.

And even though this sub- elite is the way, as Rob said, it's still pretty darn elite these times that technically named sub- elite.

And then in 2022, you ran Boston Marathon, right?

And that was a big time for you.

That was 2:37:01, which that was my New York City Marathon time as well.

Oh, yes.

So I feel your pain-

I would say New York City is a bit of a harder course than Boston.

Yeah.

But I didn't have the anger around that one second, I think.

Well, okay.

So that 2:37: 01 is actually from the October 21 Boston Marathon.

I don't know if you all remember, but the (inaudible) -

Oh, yeah, because of COVID, yeah.

Because of COVID, they ran it in October.

That's right.

And they ran it in October.

And I was relieved that the trials window wasn't open at that time because I had taken some time away from running in 2020 and 2021.

And I felt like I was rebuilding from scratch for that race.

And yeah, I was just so stoked to be back on a starting line.

I love Boston.

They offered me a spot in the elite field.

It was just the perfect race in that, like I said earlier, where Boston, a lot of times if you're in the elite field, you're running by yourself, but I happened to have this crazy little pack of women that I ended up running the whole race with and ran just over 2: 37.

And I did go back to Boston in the spring of 2022 shortly thereafter and I really didn't have a great race.

I think I ran around 2: 40 flat, but yeah, much tougher race, very much on the opposite end of the spectrum of the race from the previous fall.

Right.

And then fall of 2022-

Exactly, then she got-

...

I went to Berlin.

Well, I went to Berlin, I got sick.

Oh, yeah, you got sick.

I dropped out and then I had this other little mini build for CIM and then did it at CIM.

2:35:07, so CIM?

Something around there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I vividly remember those races because I think we were running in the same groups around that time.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

You, funnily enough, are the last person I remember seeing on the 20 ...

When did I run New York, Rob, 2019, something like that?

Yes, 2019.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

The 2019 TCS New York City Marathon.

You were the last person, I think I completely blacked out after I saw you.

I remember seeing you.

Yeah, I've been there.

I was seeing you on 5th Ave.

and you literally were like, "You're going to do it.

You're first." You were like, "Just go for it." And I just always find it so funny that we had the same times in there and we had that, but for you ...

And then I remember the group of you going to Berlin for that year and there was so many of the New York girls that we were just like, " Everyone's going out to qualify," and everyone had such different races.

But then CIM, that was the flyer three years ago, so you got it again.

But for you, knowing that in 2022 for CIM, you qualified and you would be 40 for 2024.

And I was 40 at the time actually.

You were 40 at the time?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So how did that feel as a woman?

Because over the past few years, it's become so much more common for women over 35- 40 to be throwing down these insane times.

But even three years ago, I feel like it wasn't that much of a commonality.

So how did it feel for you to just be like, " Yeah, I'm 40 and I did this.

Thank you"?

Yeah, yeah, I was definitely super stoked.

In some ways, I don't know, I probably wasn't thinking that much about it, but I think, after the fact, after the race, I was reflecting on, " Oh, it's crazy.

I'm 40." I had run 2: 40 or what's my time?

2: 34: 40 something in 2019, but to come back in 2022 and do it as a 40- year- old on a slightly harder course maybe, that felt nice.

And maybe there's more to come.

Yeah, absolutely.

And when did you have your child?

When was Tava born?

So essentially right after that race, I got pregnant, so December of 2022 and then had a baby in September, end of September 2023.

And then I had a long rebuild back from that.

I can only imagine.

And that's what I want to focus on a little bit, is that process, and, Becs, you can speak to it too, of course, of having a child and coming back to run at that level, it's incredible.

What is the biggest challenge, Caitlin, there and what are the potential benefits maybe that you might have from being a mother and trying to achieve a success at a distance that is painful no matter who you are or how fast you run or how well you're trained.

And when you've given birth, you know a little bit more about pain perhaps than you did before, but talk a bit about that process and how a human can do that.

Well, I think I had ...

Oh, geez.

Yeah, it's a lot.

So I had a long recovery.

I eventually just for lack of an official, official diagnosis, started referring to whatever I was going through as a birth injury and I visited a handful of physical therapists, couldn't really figure out what was going on exactly.

Eventually, I went to a physical therapist, an orthopedic doctor who gave me a sense of what was going on, but I had a sulcus internal tear in my pelvic floor.

And then I think some of ...

Because I had a lot of interior stitches and scar tissue that was sitting probably too close to a nerve, it was just kind of making me feel inflamed and running and walking exacerbated that exponentially.

So I really had quite a long break.

I wasn't able to run at all from September 2023 until July 2024 and then I was inching back very slowly.

And then after running for a month and a half, I got a stress fracture.

So 2024 was a bit of a bust for me, but yeah, I think part of ...

It's in a way, when you become a parent, I can say all of the ...

Everything I'm going to say is going to sound like a cliche, but I think it's such an immense shift in your perspective and your life that you have to recalibrate a little bit and figure out, " Oh, am I going to still ...

For a long time, like I said, to me, I didn't know if running was even going to be a possibility, running at all, much less running at a high level, running more than 50 miles away.

So I think I spent a lot of that first year being like, " Well, I don't know.

We'll see," and just staying hopeful that I could get back to some level of running.

And then I think just recalibrating and figuring out, " Oh, if I can do this, do I still care about this in the same way that I did before?" because I think I was always a person that was like, " Oh, I don't feel like I'm making sacrifices to train or do running at this level." And I think as a parent, you're like, " I'm making sacrifices.

I'm putting strain on my relationship at times." Luckily, I have a very supportive partner, but it's like, yeah, you just have to think about a lot.

There's just a lot more to think about.

And yeah, ultimately, I've had ...

I don't know, part of this whole process for me has been the excitement of figuring out if I can do it again, especially at the level that I've been able to for the last five or six ...

Just the level of training I've been able to do in the last five or six months, everything has been like, " Oh, that's exciting.

Oh, I'm kind of getting back to somewhere, I think," and especially at my age too.

So are there other moms who are doing what you're doing, running these races, qualifying with these times that you talk to about all this and the challenges that I'm sure you all have?

Talk about that.

Who are some of the other moms that you talk to about this incredible journey?

Well, I think, yeah, it is really cool and it's not just moms.

I have dad friends too that are dealing with some of the same issues like juggling, but yeah, I think fresh in my mind, Rachel Hyland and Veronica Jackson are two people that I've known for a long time.

We all share same coach, Terry Shea.

So in the lead up to CIM, which we were all running together, we were texting just being like, " Oh my God, my kid's sick." Just all of the things that you're stressing about as a parent on top of, " Oh, and by the way, we have this race coming up that we've all worked really hard for." So yeah.

And then on my friend Jeanne Mack had a baby around the same time, so we've really been in the thick of it together, just texting away and running together and just being like ...

It's really fun to see your friends and not just friends that have kids, but just all of my friends in running that are doing really exciting life stuff or having kids and are still doing the running thing and committed to doing it at a high level.

So yeah, yeah, really grateful to have such a good community present in New York and then also my friends that are spread out and still doing it.

Yeah.

There's so many and it is such-

Yeah, so many.

...

a beautiful community.

Just even seeing Sara Hall crushing it as well-

Incredible.

...

out there.

But on top of that for you, you're not a full- time athlete.

You're not somebody who is paid full- time by a brand to train all day, eat well, nap on top of being a mom of a toddler in New York.

You are the executive art director at MAC Cosmetics, so not a small brand, rather large, rather well known.

So what did the past four to five months of life look like for you to get this level in?

So ultimately, I think there are some positive to the post- COVID work life in that I work from home a couple of days a week and I go to the office three days a week.

But yeah, days that I'm going to the office, I'm getting up at 5: 00 and going to run and then coming back and then starting my next race of making sure my kid is fed and dressed and ready to go to daycare and I'm dressed and ready to go to the office.

And then weekends too, a lot of this build my long runs, I would just start at 5: 30, just so I could get back and be like, " Okay, and now we're doing weekend stuff."

Yes, mom time.

Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, it's a little bit of a shift.

It's like getting up a little bit earlier, but it's not ...

Yeah, it's just holding a lot of things at once.

And also giving myself a little bit more grace in terms of ...

I'm very much a creature of habit and I love my little routines, but being a little bit more like, " Okay, that week wasn't perfect, but it was good enough.

It was good enough." And there are a lot of things that I just have to be like, " Well, didn't do much strength training this build, but there was no time." I don't want to discourage anyone from doing training because it's really important, but I was like, "Well."

Yes, that's it.

You've got to take the wins.

No, but it's focusing on the priority.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

One random question for you though, for me personally, I find that that kind of training now as a mom with a job easier to do in summer because I feel safer because it's light going out at 5: 00 in the morning.

I feel now for the past three years since I've had Tallulah that the though of doing a spring race, I'm like, " No, I can't because I'm not going to go and do my long run on a treadmill every week." And I'm scared to go out and run at 5:00 in the morning in winter.

And I don't always want to rely on a group of other people because that's just-

Totally.

Sometimes you can't-

You can't.

Yeah.

You're like, "I have this window and it has to happen now." Yeah, I totally get that.

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

It's such a strange one-

It's-

...

where I'm like, "All right, so from here on in, am I just running fall races?"

Yup, it's sad to hear, first of all, that calculus, that you have to go through that thinking.

I get it.

It makes perfect sense, right?

But it's unfortunate that that has to be part of the calculus of women training to run marathons.

Yeah.

The world, the world, but it won't put us off.

We find always around it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I do feel like I've found that my other parent ...

I'm very, very fortunate to have other parent friends that are always like, " Okay, should we set our alarms for 4: 50 today?" and I'm like, " Okay, yeah, sure."

Brilliant.

I need to crack into your speeds and then I'll be coming to run with you guys.

I need some time though.

Girl-

I need some time.

...

please.

I see those runs on Strava.

They're short.

They're short, Caitlin.

Yeah, but you're running a lot faster than we are.

Let me tell you.

So, Caitlin, I'm just curious, when you qualify in the fall of 2025 for a race in 2028, great, you did it, check, what do you do?

How do you plan those two years?

What are you going to do for '26 and '27?

I have not thought past this week.

Great.

That's how it should be.

Reveling in it.

It's really, really hard to think about a race that's figures away.

I think, I don't know, my mentality for this build was very much like get to the race and see what happens and who knows?

I feel like I'm at an era in my career where it's like you don't know.

This could be the last one.

So yeah, I think I'm just really excited that this went well.

And I definitely think that there's something now that's like, " Oh, okay, maybe there's still a lot more left." I don't necessarily think I had a perfect build and I didn't go into it thinking that I was definitely going to qualify, I wanted to try, but yeah, I don't think I had a build that overwhelmingly illustrated that like, " Oh, you're in sub- 2: 37 shape." And then I was shocked as hell when I turned to the corner and saw the ...

I was like, " Wait, what is that?

No."

What did you see?

You mean the finish line or your time?

The finish line and the clock and I was like, " Does that say 2:30-"

If I stop further back, then I saw.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So yeah.

The truth is that-

Do you think you'll run a marathon between now and then or do you think you'll just maintain?

I'm sure.

I'd love to.

I think having the experience of last weekend where it's such a fun weekend where it's like you're seeing friends, you're doing a shakeout with people that you don't get to see that often, but you know really well just even just through their training log or their Strava.

So it's just marathoning is still really fun, I think.

And then sharing that experience, especially with somebody like Leanne who qualified, had a huge breakthrough.

We've trained together.

We've known each other for, again, more than 10 years now.

It's so fun and exciting to be a part of that energy.

So I'm definitely hopeful that there'll be another one.

A spring one, probably not (inaudible) for me.

I'm going to give my husband a break for a minute, and yeah, we'll see.

Well, Caitlin, congratulations, an-

Yeah, huge congrats.

...

incredible accomplishment.

Thank you for joining us and sharing a bit of your journey and we look forward to seeing what you do between now and 2028 and can't wait to see-

Thank you so much.

...

what you do then.

New York Road Runners is a nonprofit organization with a vision to build healthier lives and stronger communities through the transformative power of running.

The support of members and donors like you helps us achieve our mission to transform the health and wellbeing of our communities through inclusive and accessible running experiences, empowering all to achieve their potential.

Learn more and contribute at nyrr.

org/ donate.

Our member moment guest today, Dr.

Melissa Melkonian, is the founder and head of the American Dream School in the Bronx, a dual language charter school she created to help students and families achieve their own version of the American dream.

A dedicated runner and New York Road Runners member, she's inspired dozens of teachers, parents and staff to take on their first marathons using running as a tool for empowerment and community building.

Today, she joins Meb Keflezighi to share how her passion for running has shaped both her life and her school's culture.

Thanks, Rob.

Dr.

Melkonian, welcome to Set the Pace Podcast.

How are you doing today?

Hi, Meb.

I'm doing great.

Thank you for having me.

Great to have you.

You have inspired many school staff and parents to run their first marathon.

What made you want to start that movement?

Running is empowering.

I think, for us here at our school, it's the American Dream School, a school that was founded on the principle of honoring yourself, your culture, your language, your identity, I personally have found a lot of who I was through my runs as short runs, long runs.

And having completed a couple of marathons and half marathons, I think, for me, running is an ability to be able to look within yourself and be able to just empower yourself.

And I wanted to share that gift with other people and there's no other way for me to do that than through running.

When did you start running personally for you?

I started after college.

So about 25 years ago, I started running.

When I moved to New York City, I'm not from New York City, I joined the New York Road Runners very early on as a recent college grad and I fell in love with it.

I didn't know what running would do to me.

And when I started running and participating in races, the Central Park Races, the half marathons, it was very transformative.

I think the community that the Road Runners build helps us push through all of the runs that I've ever ran here.

Absolutely, running is definitely very empowering.

You grew up in Mexican- American family near US, Mexico border.

How has your heritage and upbringing shaped the way you approached both teaching and running?

So I grew up in El Paso, Texas, which borders Ciudad Juarez, Mexico and my parents are both immigrants.

And part of running, while it was not something that I engaged in growing up, I was very athletic and engaged in a lot of sports, but running itself was not something that we would do as a family.

But again, going back to what running is, for me personally, it's this ability to challenge yourself, to own your pace, to own who you are, be comfortable with it.

Every mile run is a mile run and it's something that nobody can take away from you.

And it's also being able to be okay when our runs don't feel our best because they're just part of who we are and it's part of the journey.

And so our culture, it's just never give up.

You work hard for what you want.

And for me, what I wanted was to run a marathon.

I wanted to run a marathon and finish it and I've done that.

And I did it over and over and over because it became this like, " I want to do it again and I'm getting older and my body's changing and I've had children.

Can I still do it?" and the answer's always yes.

Just work hard for what you want.

It's cultural.

It's (foreign language) and we can get whatever we want.

Nicely said, hard work does pay off.

As an immigrant, my parents were for sports, but there's other immigrants who are not into sports because they want you to focus on academics.

They didn't think running can be a profession.

So I have to make phone calls to Ethiopian families to say, " Let your son or your daughter run," because they see some ...

Of course, you see the talents, but as an immigrant, they don't see that as leading to being a doctor, lawyer or teacher or other venue of a career.

But how does running connect to the mission and spirit of the American Dream School?

So it connects in the sense that you don't want to give up, right?

Because running is challenging.

It doesn't matter, again like I said, you are a professional runner, I take it by hobby and I absolutely love it, but it forces your body, it forces your mind to be challenged.

And there are times in life where you feel like you just can't.

You can't take another step, " I can't put my shoes on today.

I can't go out for a run." There may be some things that I don't find challenging, but other people might think like, " Oh my God, it's raining.

Maybe I won't run today," or, " It's a little bit too cold.

I don't know if it's a good day to go running," or, " I think I'm sore from yesterday's run." All of these challenges are real because people experience them, but it connects back to the American Dream School where you're going to be presented with challenges each and every day.

Students come in here and the students that go to my school in particular are some of the students whose families are also immigrants, who have experienced hardships and traumas.

And so they are faced with daily challenges.

And very much like running, you have to push through them and there's always a finish line, but for us, it keeps going, it restarts.

Once we cross that finish line, it starts over because we're going to go on to that next race and we can't give up.

There is a way.

There is a way to reach that finish line and there is a way to finish high school and go on to college.

And a lot of our kids that go to my school in particular, their parents never finished.

Some never finished high school, some never even went to college and that's okay.

It doesn't have to be your reality, but it will be challenging as students and so we need to help everybody push through to their finish line.

And then once they cross it, set new goals and start over.

Absolutely.

As a Spanish go, (foreign language) , you can't do it and I'm pretty sure you are implementing that the American Dream School.

But again, when you line up in the race, what's usually going through your mind?

Are you thinking about your students, your own goals or something else?

I am.

The New York City Marathon, the first Sunday of November is my favorite day of the year.

You can ask anybody who's ever met me, they know what my favorite day of the year and it's always marathon Sunday.

Whether I'm running it or not, I think the way that New York City gets behind every runner is so empowering.

And for me, I've had the pleasure and the honor of being able to complete five marathons here in New York City and Mile 20 is my favorite mile to cross because that is where I run into the community that I've built here at our school, at the American Dream School.

They wait for the runners at Mile 20, crossover into the Bronx.

You go through the Willis Avenue Bridge and then you wrap around Alexander Avenue and you have an entire community waiting there, cheering, chanting, " (foreign language) ," with signs where you have the students, you have the parents who are emotional because they've never seen anybody that they know run marathons.

And then you hear students say, " I want to do that too.

When can I do that?

How do I do this?" And so it creates this desire to want to learn more and be inquisitive about, " Is it actually hard?

How hard is it, Dr.

Melkonian?" and I'm like, " It's very hard and it's a commitment.

You have to train for it.

You have to mentally train for it," but as long as you go through with your commitment, the world is yours."

The world's yours and the finish line is there waiting for you to (inaudible) -

That medal feels so good.

Inspiration.

That medal feels so good to wrap around our neck.

At the very next day, it's wonderful.

The finish line and the medal we know all about, but what lessons from marathon trainings has helped you as a school leader?

That everybody has their own pace, right?

So my pace is not your pace and that's okay, right?

So everybody's goal is different.

Everybody's purpose in life and in education and in running, their why may look a little bit differently and that's okay.

And I think part of being able to complete half marathons and I not run as much as you have, but I think I've had about 20 New York City half marathons that I've completed that it has been ...

Everyone was different.

Everyone was different.

I had children in between.

I ran one immediately after I had my last child.

And so every everything we do is different.

And so some of the lessons is just accept where you are in this particular process of life.

Don't compare yourself to others because you see people run past you all the time and that's okay.

Just remember why you started and be determined to finish even if it means with support, even if it means it takes a little bit longer or you have to walk a couple of steps here and there.

Everybody's training is different and that's okay.

Absolutely.

And being different and that's okay, like you said.

And there's different genders, different age groupers, different ...

Just amazing how running unites us all, an ability and to have a different ability, get to the finish line from point A to point B or from Staten Island to Central Park.

Everybody have different stories by getting to that finish line and your own pace is just as equally important.

Yeah, I agree.

Well, thank you for being on the show and great to have you and best wishes as you go for the future.

Thank you so much, Meb.

Thank you so much for joining us, Dr.

Melkonian, and for being a member of New York Road Runners.

Now, it's time for today's Meb Minute.

Long run is all about building aerobic engine, building stamina and don't rush it.

It easy runs that ...

Sometimes long run, when you start off, it might be 5 miles.

It might be 6 miles and it becomes 7, 8 miles.

And then it becomes 10 miles.

Or if you get in for a marathon, then it becomes 14, 16, 18 to 20 and so on.

So don't be in a rush to just say, " Hey, I got to get my long run in," and get it in 12 miles when you haven't run yet because that would lead to not a good situation, injuries.

It might even feel okay covering that day, but eventually a week later or two weeks later or three weeks later, you're going to be having issues.

So patience is important.

Don't rush it and hold back when you can because you don't want to say, " What can I do today?" You got to think about tomorrow.

You got to think about next week.

You got to think about next month." Ultimately, you want to be ready on marathon day.

Don't get too excited and get burned out because every day that happens.

When you go hard, the easy days are supposed to be easy.

Recovery, they're supposed to be a recovery.

If you can make the progress to be able to just build up each week, each month and consistency and be able to make the progress, you know what?

You're going to be healthier, which it means consistent.

Once consistent, becomes a great results in the long run, literally and figuratively, and get you to that finish line as strong as you can.

And it will make a lot more easier also when you have run compete at the races.

The recovery will be easier when you have done your long run properly and manageably.

All right, Becs, that does it for another episode of Set the Pace.

We want to thank our guest today, Caitlin Phillips and Dr.

Melissa Melkonian.

Absolutely incredible stories, knowledge that we've learned in today's episodes.

I hope that Meb has given you all inspiration to get out there, even if it is chilly, but you can just get out there, take that pace down because that means you can keep the layers on for a bit longer.

So true.

So true.

You go fast, you got to start peeling them off and the way you're going to put them.

(inaudible) .

I hate carrying gear while I run, absolutely.

I know.

I just have them from my hips up around my waist, so I come home looking like a weird version of The Michelin Woman.

But maybe that was some good tips for people for this weekend's New York Road Runners Frosty 5K.

I think you're going to be there, Rob, right?

I will not.

I'm traveling this weekend.

I will miss the Frosty 5K, which I'm sad to miss.

It's always a great event.

So much fun.

A lot of costumes out there.

I was going to say, I can't wait to see the costumes.

A lot of Santa, there's a lot of elves for the Frosty 5K.

So I'll be following on social.

I can't wait to see it.

A race that always lives up to its name, by the way, because there's always frosty out there at Prospect Park.

So hope everybody has a great time with our second to last race of the year.

I will be at the Midnight Run on New Year's Eve this year.

So I'll be ringing in the New Year with our members and runners out there on New Year's Eve in Central Park.

So that's, I guess, technically our last race of the year, even though-

It is.

...

it starts at midnight next year.

But have a great weekend, everybody.

Enjoy those chilly miles.

Make sure you subscribe to the show.

Leave us a review.

We want to hear from folks out there.

Send us a question as well.

Thanks for listening.

We'll see you next week.

Enjoy the miles.