I want to feel normal, but I don't want to be described as normal.

That is true.

That would be damning.

What's the worst thing that you could overhear someone describing you as that That plot.

Like realistically, that they think is a compliment.

Not like she's a loose whore.

Welcome back y'all.

This is not for everyone.

We're a podcast hosted by a hater and a lover.

And this is a place where you're we hope you agree with some things we say and we hope you disagree with some things.

I think that's important for.

Yeah.

This world.

Have you been watching Pluribus?

Not to get right into media like hot TV talk, but I.

Haven't even heard of it.

OK, what you just said really reminded me of it.

It's an Apple TV show that is all the rage right now and I think the first few episodes got 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, which is pretty unheard of for like a season 1 episode 1 like pilot of a new show.

And the concept is about like hive mind and AI and like the idea that we all are just living on the Internet, living with chat bots, like asking them for all of our answers.

And it's almost like we're all just forming one mind.

It's it's playing off of that concept, but in a very like sci-fi, unrealistic, like extreme way.

But that's that's at the root of it is this concept of like maintaining our individuality and not all thinking the same and how AI and technology is driving us to all think the same.

Oh, I'm, yeah, I think the AI part of it is interesting to me.

I could definitely see that being a thing because it's trying to like, I haven't really thought of it that way before, but it's like, is it how like AI is always trying to serve up like the most reasonable human?

Yeah.

Answer to things and then it's just like a sum, like an average kind of thing.

Yeah, it's.

Basically, like there's a virus in the show, there's a virus that infects the majority of the population of the.

Entire.

World and and it makes it so that everybody shares one mind and like all of the expertise that existed in different people and all of the talent that existed in different people it's all now shared and every single person on the earth can access it.

So in some ways it can be helpful because like if I'm having a medical emergency, the UPS guy knows how to do open heart surgery.

But on the flip side, nobody has an original thought anymore.

No one has their own opinion anymore.

You try to engage in like, you know, thoughtful dialogue and there's none of it because it's all just like this one melded.

Like they, they're not allowed to have an opinion.

They're just allowed to base things off of like facts that they have collected from all of these people that have now formed into one.

And I've only seen there's only 5 episodes out.

So I don't know what the larger thing is that it's leading towards.

But you can presume that there may be some sort of like evil entity behind all of this that has some ulterior motive.

But right now it's just like hive mind.

And it, it, it wasn't obviously about AI in the first couple episodes, but it started to become clear that that's what they're commenting on because the characters will talk and it's very like, it's very how ChatGPT is like great point, Caroline.

Here's some things that the like it always validates you and but it can only give you facts and guidance and it can't actually tell you what to do next, which is fine.

AI shouldn't tell you what to do next.

But if it, if all people are AI, then like you're not able to get thoughtful guidance from a human.

Do you know what I mean?

So yeah, it's a really, really interesting show.

I would definitely recommend it.

It's scratching my like sci-fi itch that I have lost because Severance isn't coming back until 2027.

But this is different.

It's similar, but different.

Yeah.

That's.

Cool.

Yeah, that sounds really interesting and very unique.

Yeah.

So I do hope that everybody has a healthy amount of disagreement with what we say.

I think that's where I'm coming from.

It's like watching this show and thinking about a world in which everybody's just like aligned to a fault and there's no healthy debate.

There's no like unique point of view.

It just it removes the color from it.

You know we need that so.

On the on the macro level and on the micro level, I think it took me a while to realize that anytime there was someone like it was often a girlfriend who I had on a pedestal and like really look up, looked up to and just was like, I want to hear their opinion about anything and almost anything they say.

I will like not change my opinion to meet it.

But like they have that much influence on me that if they believe this, it's like I just believe anything they believe because I trust them so much.

I respect them so much.

I think they're so great group blah, blah, blah, which doesn't feel like a bad thing.

Like that's a great kind of dynamic to have is like people to look up to.

But even with those people, I've realized it actually is, I'm, I'm wary of that when I sense myself feeling that way about someone now putting someone on a pedestal because I know what it actually means is that I'm not seeing them fully.

Because there should not be any person on earth that you just think everything the same thing as that either means you're lying to yourself or you're not thinking critically, or you're not seeing them fully or whatever.

Like even with your best best friend or your best, best partner, you should be able to disagree on things and see things differently because you're two different people.

And so when I feel that in myself like a new friend and I'm like, I don't know, they're just fucking awesome.

And this is perfect.

And that is perfect.

And I want to do this thing the way they do it.

And I want to do that thing the way they do it.

And I think everything they I'm like, OK, so you don't actually, you're not actually seeing all of them yet because there should be space for disagreement.

And I'm, and then on the macro level for sure, but it also feels like I, I do feel this thing, of course, especially on the Internet and think about our conversation last week where it's like people often there's a lot of discomfort with like I agree with a lot of things they say, but I don't, I don't agree with this.

What do I do with that?

You don't do anything with that.

That's a normal human relationship.

You should be able to hear some things and agree and hear other things and disagree and I'm and also not have to sever the relationship unless you weigh the pros and cons and it's note the relationship is no longer nourishing, but I, I, I love having a lot of that in my life.

And and it's something you have to like intentionally value, I think.

And it also makes your life a lot richer.

And yeah.

And it's like, exactly, we said about that show, if you're just siphoning down to people who say they agree with everything that you say, a someone's not being honest or someone's not thinking, and then also you just have limited exposure.

Yeah.

It's scary.

It's very scary.

And I actually wonder what you think about this because you were talking about friendships and like valuing diverse perspective, which same here.

And I feel like everybody should like, I feel like that's a no brainer.

But then again, you see how some people operate and you're like, oh, I guess that's not a no brainer.

I would say a lot of default is the opposite these days.

Yeah, it's becoming more that way.

Yeah, I totally agree.

That being said, slight pivot but related.

I have a lot of friends who are lawyers and I have found that my friends who are who happen to be lawyers love to debate.

Like so annoying.

Casually in social settings, right and I'm.

I don't like debating.

I'm not.

Trying to.

I don't like debating either.

I'm, I'm encouraging.

I'm encouraging disagreement.

Yeah, just disagree.

I don't need to debate you.

I feel like that's the fine line where like, I want to know your opinion, including if it's different than mine.

Like I want to know if you have information that I don't have.

If you have exposure to something that I don't know about.

I want, I want the information and I want to discuss that, but I don't want it to feel like you're trying to convince me to change what I think.

And a lot of times my friends have their lawyer hat on because they're, that's what they do everyday at work.

Yeah.

'Cause they're jerking on and.

I'm like, yeah, a little.

And they're all, and also like a lot of them, they're friends with each other, so they love to do it together.

But then I'm sitting there being like, oh really?

Did we have to do it this way?

Like and then and then I worry that I'm coming across as not wanting the disagreement and the diverse perspectives, but it's like, no, I just don't want to argue at brunch.

Like I just want to have a nice brunch.

There's also.

The lawyer thing, I feel like a lot of dudes like to do this recreationally where it's like the intellectual jousting of the debate and then often like they don't even hold the opinion.

They're just like practicing debate.

They're just hosting debate team.

And I'm like, why did it?

Like when did a debate team become so hot and horny?

Like I was annoyed by it in school and I'm still annoyed by it.

I'm not impressed by it now.

It was annoying and then it's annoying now and also like you don't even believe this thing.

Why would I take the time to debate you on something I care about if you're just doing it as a mental exercise?

And I also like don't need you to agree with me.

Yeah, there are certain people, this is just outside of the lawyer thing now, who love to play devil's advocate, love to be the contrarian for the sake of debate.

And I'm like, I don't, I don't value having this conversation with you if it's not something that you are genuinely authentically showing up and representing what you believe and what you know and being curious about what I believe and what I know.

Like if you're just playing the role of oh, like for the sake of discussion, like get out of here.

I I'm tired.

I don't need a sake of discussion.

I know don't ever need a discussion that is for the sake of it.

I have plenty of discussions that I love and plenty of discussions that.

For the sake of.

Calls that should be emails like.

I don't need another one of those.

Thank you.

Very much e-mail.

I'm so interested to read that in an e-mail direct to spam.

Send me the bullets.

Yeah.

OK, good.

I just needed to.

I just needed to get that off my chest.

I'm sure some of my lawyer friends are listening and I love you, but they know they'd see me clam up When this happens at the brunch, they're like, oh, we're doing it again.

We're having fun.

And Jess is out.

And it's true.

I am.

That's fine, that's fine if that's their hobby, but just let that be your hobby.

Like go to your debate club, meet up group.

Don't don't pretend it's the same as conversing with me or relating to me.

Yeah, I don't like debate at all.

It's like either it's a topic that I, I'm like, this is boring and I don't care about it, or I care a lot about it and I'm like, I'm for things I care a lot about and really believe in.

I'm almost the least interested in convincing someone else.

It's like it feels like I'm prostituting out, like pimping out something like a value.

Like the value is for me.

I don't need you to share this value and I'm not going to slut myself off for you to have some of it.

Like I don't care if you agree with my value.

Like I believe in it.

I'm still going to have this value, yeah.

There's like, there's literally certain things.

I feel like a lot of the things I care about most, I don't like to talk about like topics I don't like to talk about on the Internet because it is so core to like my values and what I care about that it will it will actually upset me to like have to to get.

The comment.

Prove it or convince someone of it or like, I don't need it.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's my own fragility for sure.

But.

For sure.

We all have the fragility, though, in some place in some little corner of our brain where it's like, yeah, I'm just not going to go there.

Just let me have that thing or just let me.

This is so core to me that like, you don't want to put it out there for discussion or debate.

Yeah, it's like I already know this.

Affirm Yeah, yeah, I don't need you to like like a validate this.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm trying to think what any of those topics would be for me, but I also to your point, you're like, let's not talk about those, but it's interesting to think.

About Let's have a healthy debate.

Let's have a healthy debate.

What should we debate?

No, I don't want to.

OK, I was going to think of something silly like.

OK, let's have.

Christmas candies.

Like do you have a fave?

Like, I'll have that debate.

What are the Christmas you know?

You know, like candy.

Canes or like OK chocolate Santa Clauses or something.

OK, I feel like I'm going to get hated even about this.

Are you?

I didn't expect that I should.

Have.

I mean, are you going to make an argument for a candy cane?

I love candy canes.

I love.

Them I fuck I knew you would that's.

Do you have a problem with mint and peppermint?

Because Ryan?

No, you like the mint Yasso bars, Ryan doesn't.

Like a post to it it just.

Doesn't participate in my can in my Christmas candies.

OK.

I'll suck on a candy cane, but I would like a little more texture variety, like something soft or chewy or like a cracker mixed in or a coating of chocolate.

Like it's just fucking straight pain.

It's just hard cane.

It's hard gain girl, but I love sucking it down to the little pointy weenus.

I love.

I love getting it there.

I love getting it there.

I like the weenus.

I know you like it because we used to all like compete in school of like who could get that candy cane down to the point pointiest.

It was like a thing to the weenus.

To the to the weenus, to the wall.

To the wall.

OK, you won that debate.

I'm well, look at that.

See, sometimes that's the other thing.

Sometimes not caring that much about the debate actually helps you win the debate.

That's something I'm pretty good at with my family, which is a group of very opinionated people, some contrarians in the mix.

And I think I'm pretty good at showing up and being like, and then kind of making a good point by the end.

Like if you just show up and you're like, not as heated as everyone else not.

I'd say I'm not capable.

It really depends on the topic.

I have no.

Problem withholding disagreement.

But I don't want to, I don't want to be forced, forced to defend it.

OK, I I do think that you're kind of a queen of petty debate topics like this or that, but they have to be like menial things.

I wow, thank you, I would have never thought that about myself.

No, I think that about you.

I do like a this or that like.

I mean, that's give me a spice of life.

You just, like you just said, chocolate, Santa Claus or candy canes, which is ludicrous and you won and.

I won this is the best.

I was having a really bad couple of days, which we'll get to and this just like I can't believe how much my myself worth is back.

It's it's actually higher than it's ever been.

I'm here to fly.

What's another this or that?

What's another this or that?

Oh, OK, This is talk about not being important at all.

I was shopping for Christmas goodies yesterday.

I was at home goods, I was at world market.

I was just doing my rounds spending unnecessary money on Christmas things cuz I needed to feel joy.

Yes, and I really don't need more Christmas things so I was trying to be streamlined about.

It it's not a necessity, fine.

Exactly.

So I was choosing between getting another Christmas mug, of which I have plenty, or getting a a Christmas glass like glassware like a wine glass or a whiskey glass, or like a cute glassware that had something Christmassy on it.

And I ended up leaving the store with neither because I really overthought the situation.

God, I'll come back later.

I had a panic.

So I don't know mug or glassware.

Mug.

That's what I thought mug.

I'm still thinking about the mugs they have really cute stuff at.

Work, you just get more mileage out of them.

Because you can put anything in it.

Hot, cold.

You can use a mug for cold stuff.

That's not what I meant.

Oh my, I just meant.

Like you use them more often?

Like it is nice to have like a soiree, but how many soiree's am I having?

On the other hand, I'm having coffee 12 times a day.

You're right.

You're right.

I mean, I'm always having a lot of best trees.

You can't put anything in any cup.

You can put anything.

Well, I don't know.

I think a mug is safer because you can put hot and cold in it.

It also has the handle, which makes it safer to hold.

Hold on.

As somebody who spills things, yeah.

Hold on, I would never put cold to anything in a mug.

Oh, I put wine in mugs sometimes, just when I want the extra security of the handle rather than the stem, which is so fickle for my little hands.

I would never.

You would never.

I mean, I have as a last resort.

And This is why, because I already have Christmas mugs, but I don't have any Christmas glassware.

And that's why I thought.

That changed, maybe, Yeah.

I thought you were just asking objectively.

You weren't.

OK.

Was the debate what are you supposed to buy?

Or was the debate which is better?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I guess an argument can be made for either, so OK, you think it's objectively mug.

If you have neither and you need to get one mug.

But if you have.

A lot of mug.

Yeah.

Then you should have got glasses, yeah.

OK, so I'm going to go back for the glasses.

Next, give me the next one.

Another this or that, oh, gold or silver is that can't bring anything up.

Can't.

Be said can't be said can't be done in the context of what?

Christmas.

I don't know.

I was just trying to keep it broad.

Apply that to what you want.

Too broad?

OK decor in your home like.

At the moment I might say silver, but like in another 10 years I could change my mind.

Yeah, I agree it switches.

I'm also in I'm.

Actually going to hit you with a brushed nickel.

Yeah.

Oh, I think you said that on a on a YouTube video at some point.

And I was like, I'm in on the brushed nickel.

Yeah, I feel really seen by that.

OK.

But then for jewelry, I'm a gold.

I wear silver sometimes, but I'm a gold.

We both have olive skin.

It works better.

But I actually feel like, is that what I should be wearing or should I be wearing silver stuff?

I mean.

OK.

It depends.

It depends on the outfit.

I still have silver things, but I have a lot more gold things.

And is it your engagement ring?

The metal is gold, yellow gold.

So yeah.

That's.

Right.

OK.

Do you want me to give you more or is this enough?

One more last one.

One more one.

More make this one hard.

OK, something a little more meaty, a little more substantial.

Well, my brain is blank ever since you told me that I was a queen of this Really put a lot of pressure on me.

What's something?

That you let's narrow it down.

What's something that you hold a strong opinion about?

Because I feel like that's usually how you bring it up.

You're like, OK, pajama.

Shilling thing, yeah.

You're usually like pajama shorts or pajama like pants pants and it's something I'm like, who cares?

And then you have.

The then I like.

Most fully formed argument up for one or the other and it completely convinces me, but I've never thought about it.

OK, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's something that I have a really strong opinion about, like like that?

Like lipstick or lip gloss, you know?

Yeah, I guess there's no like or a glossy ideal.

I just know that lipstick doesn't look very good on me so.

That's how I feel.

Well, there's a couple, there's a couple factors with that one OK Lipstick, I feel like clings to any dry spot on your lip.

And if you don't apply it really well and like prep your lips for it and probably use a lip liner and like make sure they're exfoliated.

It takes a lot of steps to make sure that it like lays nicely and looks clean and doesn't feather.

And so for that reason, I think gloss wins.

But then also I think gloss wins because I think it's really I have never broken this since I was in middle school feeling so cute and hot and tea.

Should I say?

When I bring out the lip gloss wand and apply it, you just feel like a Bratz doll and that is how I want to feel.

So I feel strongly about lip gloss over lipstick.

Did I convince you?

You didn't need convincing?

Maybe I convinced someone.

OK, I already.

Agreed.

So no points to you.

OK, well, can I tell you about something else?

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

I'm about to unveil my hack for buying great gifts for your in laws.

Your partner's parents, your parents, your aunt and uncle.

Anyone in that bracket is usually someone that it's really hard to get gifts for around the holidays.

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No, this actually this conversation like really lit up my life briefly because my life has been really bad.

Yeah, tell us get.

Let's get it.

Let's bring it back down.

Tell us about what's been bad.

Let's bring it back down.

I've been really, really, really, really stressed and overwhelmed recently.

I think that it is rooted in work and feeling very spread thin at work, but it just like spills out into all the other parts of life where it's like podcasts, second podcast.

I'm doing this like performance in Chicago in a couple weeks.

I want to go to the gym and I want to like eat healthy.

And it's like as soon as you start feeling like you're dropping the ball in one area, it makes you think about all the other areas of your life that maybe you're not even usually thinking about.

Very much like I'm not actively conscious of, I don't know whether I put away my laundry all the time.

Like sometimes I put it away right away and sometimes I don't.

And it's like not something that I'm all that worried about.

But as soon as I feel like I'm crumbling at work, then I look at the laundry basket and I'm like, I'm not even able to put away my laundry.

Like you just like make it a problem when it's never been a problem before.

And so I feel like that's been happening to me.

And so I did something.

So basically like yesterday and the day before, I was like crying on and off for a really long time.

Like I was inconsolable, really stressed, just like breakdown, burnt out.

I'm on the other side of it now.

But I really needed to do all that crying and all that moaning.

And so I woke up this morning and I was like, OK, how are we going to make things better?

And I decided to put on my calendar for every day this coming week, Monday to Friday at the top of my day.

So at like 8 AMI put a little 30 minute block and it basically has a list in it for me.

It's not actually an event.

It's just like at the top of my day.

I go off of my calendar for everything like my To Do List is my calendar basically.

So it's the first thing I'm going to see every day is this little event and I click into it and it's a list.

And the list is the minimum viable product of today.

Minimum viable product is like a tech industry term that's just

like, what are the 5:00-ish things that have to get done today?

And if at the end of the day those things are done, then that's enough and you don't have to do more 'cause I feel all the time, like even at the end of the day when I've done a lot, there's still so much more to do.

The To Do List is never ending and it's been making it really hard for me to like sign off of work at the end of the night and move on and unwind because I'm like, well, there's more.

Like if I really want to get ahead and do this and that, then I should also do this.

And it's destroying me.

And so now I'm just looking at my day, looking at the meetings I have and looking at like what is due tomorrow and saying, OK, there's like 3 focus.

There's three empty blocks that don't have meetings today.

That's not a lot of time to get work done.

What are the things that have to happen by the end of the day?

That's so stupid to three blocks without meetings.

Dude, when are you going to get your?

Work.

Done.

It's horrible.

It's horrible.

And and I know that so many people relate to that.

Like I know all last week I was mostly in meetings.

I had like 30 minute blocks in between here and there.

30 minutes is not enough time to do anything.

Plus I have to eat and like go to the bathroom and shit.

By the time you.

For that long.

You know, by the time you get your farts out, I.

Would just I would just be getting my momentum.

Comes so far, there's no time.

It's like 20 minutes are spent and now I have another call in 10 minutes.

Now I have to.

Wind down the toots.

What are what are I'm going to get my moans in.

I'm telling you, I'm telling you that was my whole week last week.

And that's why I stayed online late and worked late and because the only focus time I could get

was like 6:00 to 8:00 PM when I no longer have calls.

And so this is what I'm doing.

I'm making my list for the beginning of each day.

And I'm saying you're doing this thing.

You're doing this thing.

I'm also including personal stuff like you're making it to the gym and you're, you know, or you're going for a walk or whatever it is.

You're going to use your walking pad at your desk during that one call.

Like I'm making it, whatever the things are to make me survive the day and be set up OK for the next day.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Love.

Thank you.

Love you.

That's a great, great solution.

You said that in a way.

You said that in a heartfelt way, in a moment when I didn't expect you to say it back.

I've been really struggling.

OK.

No, you're doing great.

You're doing great.

A You're doing great.

Thank you.

BI love it.

See, I thought you were going to say that you put you just talked about moaning and then I thought you were going to say that you

put a like an 8:00 AM event everyday to moan.

DI need to hear more about how your To Do List goes up there on your calendar because my problem is I just lived off.

I just live off my To Do List and I forget to look at my calendar, which is how I miss a lot of life events.

But but there's so many things on my To Do List that it's like this could be carried over for months or like it's not just today.

It's like aspirate, but like I need to do it or like I like, I don't really understand.

So I want to hear more about that.

EE is that the moan?

EE sorry.

We're having a time.

I love it.

I did hear you talking about like prioritizing your workout.

I heard really great workout advice that I do think is so correct, but I like cannot follow it to save my life, which is I can't remember who it was some fucking someone on a podcast.

Obviously some bitch hoe.

It was a man talking about men can be hoes.

Anyway, he was talking about how he like he values working out everyday or getting some kind of exercise, you know, walking, whatever it is, whatever your exercises for the day, physical movement.

And he's like, I all I know I have to make it first thing in the morning because if I because like work will expand this what he said he was like work will expand to fit the time you have.

So like if you just start with work, you'll just keep doing work until it's like 6:00 PM and then, oh, we have to go pick up kids or oh, we go, do I have to go do dinner?

Oh, I have to do these chores now or I have another work thing, blah, blah.

Then it's 8:00 PM and it's like, am I going to go work out?

Less likely.

But like if you start with the thing that you actually want to get in that day, not even that thing you have to, but thing you want to, then you will get your and you are at your desk at 9 or whatever.

You will fit your work into what's left in that day.

Like you will make it work.

You know what I mean?

Like when you give us student, like if you give a student like a month to complete a paper or six months, most students aren't finishing it in month one.

Most students are going to use the full six months.

Like you'll use the time allotted kind of thing.

And I did think that was really good advice.

And I've had so many days where the whole day goes by and I haven't prioritized working out first thing in the morning because no, I'm not a morning person.

And la, la, la, I don't give a shit.

I need to get over it.

And I've been, I've been fitting in a few more, but I, I know that it is true.

And it doesn't matter if I'm a morning person.

I just need to do it because it's my value and it makes me feel good and I will fill the rest of the day up with work.

And it's something else to say.

I forgot you had AFI had an F.

We'll come to, we'll come back to that.

I agree.

I work out.

I used to be an evening workout person, but I think that that was really when that started was when I took my year off and so.

Were you single to?

Base anything, I was single and I was not working.

I had all the time in the world, I could do everything on my schedule and like I am a later in the day type of lady and so a

5:00 PM workout, 4:00 PM workout was great.

But I totally agree with that man that work will expand and if I if I tell myself I'm going to go to the gym at 5 or 6 after work, like it very rarely happens, especially now that it's dark outside so early and I'm in a period of work where I'm so so busy and stressed and there's always more to do.

I think it's the most important when it's a busy time.

Yeah, yeah, it's like I do.

Have to do it in the morning.

You'll let all the busy things and obligations and stuff you literally have to do.

I'm not twiddling my thumbs.

I'm working all day.

Yeah, you won't make time for the workout.

Duh.

Yep, yeah.

So that's, that's definitely how I take care of my workouts and in general, I think I mentioned this, I've mentioned this a few times.

Like it does just feel like my mornings because of that same premise.

Yeah, my mornings are the only time that I really have that are mine.

It feels like once I sit down at my desk, which?

Which is what time usually.

Usually it's a little later,

it's like 10:00 AM because a lot of my coworkers are based on the West Coast and my calls don't really start until 10 or 11.

OK, OK.

So I usually have the luxury of like not having to wake up too, too early 'cause I can.

First of all, I work from home.

And second of all, I don't sit down at my desk usually until 10.

So I can wake up around like 8.

I can go to the gym and do my workout.

I can come back, refresh and like be be at my desk around 10.

But then from 5:50 or later I'm like locked there.

And yeah, so I do try to make the most of my morning time of like getting the right amount of sleep, waking up, having a coffee, going to the gym, like showering and making myself look presentable.

I mean, last week I was not able to do all that because it truly was like a hell week for me.

But on an average week, I'm able to kind of like take the morning, let it be mine.

And then once I'm at work, it the hardest thing is signing off at the end of the day.

I do wonder, like I was talking to my therapist about this and kind of wondering if there might be something to trying to go to a workout in the evening because it'll force me to sign off.

Or just booking something then you know, booking.

Something or like, but whenever I try to do that, I don't like it fails like part, you know, some of it is that I know myself and that just doesn't really work for me.

But some of it is like, do I need to force myself to stick to the thing no matter what because I need to get away from the computer even if I go back to the computer like I did that last week.

One night I had a yoga class that I had booked at 5:00 PM, and I really could have kept working, but I also felt crazed and felt like yoga would help me.

And so I made myself go.

Even though everybody at work was still working, the Slack messages were still firing, and I was like, I'm gonna go to yoga.

This is what time?

At 5:00 PM.

OK, OK.

But like in your.

People are in California.

Are you expected to still be around after, or is it like internal compulsion to be around?

It's this is the, this is the problem with remote work and everybody living in different time zones because I'm just expected to work 40 hours a week.

Like that is what my paycheck is for full time employment, 40 hours a week.

I generally they expect you to do that in the like working hours of your time zone 9 to 510 to 6-8 to what you know, whatever it is for you.

And like you can shift it an hour depending on your preference or if you have other stuff you need to do.

So it's fairly flexible and really the only expectation is like to be on calls obviously and to do to get your work done.

But what ends up happening is because people are based all over and a lot of my team is on in California where like my 5 is their three.

They all just got off of all their calls with East Coast and central time people.

Like we all had our calls.

And then the time when my California-based Co workers are actually doing their work is like my 5 to 7, they're three to five.

And so they'll end up Slack messaging me and saying like, hey, I'm finally getting to this slide, can you look at it?

Or hey, did you have that thing?

I'm finally getting to the focus work, but it's already the end of my day.

But can that be what you do in the morning then?

And they will just eventually get used to know?

I know sometimes there's more time.

Sensitive stuff like Usually I would just leave that to the morning, but and I can't figure out how much of what's happening right now is like because I'm on a really important project that is just like the expectation is a little crazier and more urgent and like to be more available.

I can't tell how much of it is that and how much of it is also me.

Maybe like loosening up those boundaries that I've set for myself, in which case I want to catch myself and be like, hey, dude, reminder.

Like you don't have to do this until tomorrow.

Like I can't tell how much of it is the expectation and how much of it is me thinking that that's the expectation or like falling for the trap.

It's also like, I feel like when it's murky and sometimes you're available then and sometimes you're not, then people are going to be sending you the slacks and you're like, well, slacks are still coming in like they're expecting.

People are expecting.

Oh, and then there's more opportunities that you're going to cave as opposed to like if people are like, she's never around at that time and and that's acceptable in this company.

If it is, then it's like they might send less slacks too.

I don't know.

It's, like always, so much more complicated than just that.

But it also, again, I already kind of said this, but it, it has a lot to do with the calls because, yeah, if we're all if the time when everybody, no matter where they're based overlaps is like my 10 AM or 11:00 AM to 3:00 PM or 2:00 PM

or 3:00 PM.

Like that's, that's the middle of the day and the majority of the day.

And it's when all the calls happen because somebody on the East Coast, somebody in Central time, somebody in Pacific Time all needs to meet and talk about all these things.

So then the only windows of time for actual focus work are like.

Early morning, which I'm just not a morning work person.

I'm more my brain is more active and productive in the like 4 to 6, four to seven time frame.

Would you ever just shift your schedule to be a West Coast schedule and take the mornings for yourself to do whatever the fuck you want?

But the problem is that there's still some East Coast people, like my manager is on the East Coast.

I hate my.

I hate that.

My team that I'm working on this urgent project with is on the West Coast.

So now I have to be available for my manager and available for this project team.

It's just like, it's just a shit, shit, shit setup and time.

And like, yeah, I can't figure out how much of it is changeable and how much of it is is passing like it's just right now and it won't be forever.

And how much of it is like me letting up my boundaries versus how much of it is, I don't know.

It's like very muddy for me.

But all I know is that for the next two weeks until I'm off for the holidays, I will be making my list every morning of the minimum viable product of what I need to get done that day.

And I will not be doing an ounce more than that every day.

And if it takes me till 7 one night, fine.

But it if it takes me till 4 a different day, cool.

Like however long it takes me.

Worship.

And then I'm done and then things can wait until the next day.

I'm I'm bad at that.

I'm like a.

Oh, it's your own boundaries.

I do think I'm bad at that part.

Like the never ending To Do List and knowing when is enough on a given day.

Yeah, OK.

I like that.

Do you struggle with that?

How?

And also it's different because you and 'cause you ask the question about like using your calendar as your To Do List.

And I think the reason it makes sense for me is because I have so many calls with Co workers all the time that like I have to be looking at my calendar all day every day.

And then it just makes it very obvious where the chunks are where I don't have calls where I can actually get work done.

But your your life isn't set up in the same way like your work life.

Yeah, when I think about it, I'm like my To Do List is my minimum minimum viable product and I never get an like any of it done.

It's like I feel like every day I'm working, every single hour is like just to barely keep up.

And yeah, I don't feel like I'm doing anything extra.

I feel like I'm always just barely keeping up with like what the work needs to be.

Do you feel like?

You're underestimating how long things will take you.

I'm certain.

I'm certain.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm certain.

And do you think some of that is because you have really high standards for those things?

Probably it's because I'm an idiot.

I think it's because I don't learn from things I've done a million times.

I don't know.

I've poorer, poorer time estimation skills.

Maybe.

I don't know.

I will say one thing.

First of all, there's like nothing that infuriates me more than having several days in a row where you're like, all I did all day was work.

Yeah, it it makes me want to end this life.

Like, that is not why I'm here.

And it happens plenty.

And it's like all I did all day was work.

At least for me.

It's like I'm working for my own business.

Fine.

But like when that would happen with like a company or some shit, all I did all day was work.

I didn't get to like see a friend.

I didn't get to go for a walk.

I didn't get to go work out.

I didn't get to like have downtime.

I didn't get to watch a show.

I didn't get to like hang out with your boyfriend or what?

Like all you did was work that it I want to murder.

And also every once in a while, at least for me, it happens.

And the one thing my maybe my version of that minimum viable product is when I'm having like these shitty work days is to think like, what is one thing I can inject that's just for just cuz it will make me feel like this isn't a wasted day that I sold to the devil like.

And that might literally be like, I'm going on a walk, or it might be I'm going to leave the house in pants and walk two blocks to the coffee shop and get a coffee there.

I'll be there for 20 minutes and then I come back.

And that's going to make me feel like a human.

That's going to make me feel like I was not a slave chained to the desk or like, you know, I'm going to.

I don't even know.

I don't even know whatever the fuck I'm going to repaper this picture frame.

I wanted to repaper and that's just for me and it's going to take 20 minutes.

But like, that is I got like, finding one thing that's like this makes me feel that's the difference to me between like a wasted day of just like I was a slave to this day, or I got to live a little bit in it.

And I hate that that's, I hate that that's the breakdown.

But those days happen for me.

And that makes a big difference.

Yeah, But I still have to force myself to go do that thing.

Oh, totally.

That was essentially the reason that I was like crying for the last.

You put into.

You were just.

Every day was just.

Every day was that.

Yeah, every day was that for like the second-half of last week and even the first half.

But at least the first half I like one day I went to Orangetheory and one day I went to a coffee shop.

And you wouldn't believe I came back from the coffee shop.

I went to a coffee shop first thing in the morning because I knew I was gonna have a crazy work day.

And I was like, I need to go outside, get a coffee, just like be out in the world before I am chained to this desk.

And so I did exactly that.

And I had a like nice conversation with the barista.

And I came home and talked to Ryan about my conversation with the barista for like a really long time.

Like that barista conversation was actually my lifeline that day.

And I was like, and then you wouldn't believe what he said.

And Ryan was like, like, you need to get out more, sweetie.

Like it was, it was bad.

It was bad, but that was the kind of week that I was having.

And it's true that those are the moments that like, make it marginally OK is just going to the coffee shop for 20 minutes or get going to the workout class.

Just having someone small thing in there that's like this was not owed to anyone.

I did this because I can frolic for 10 minutes.

Yeah.

Makes me feel like I it is some version of like, for me not wanting to live, I I really struggle to find the words because it's obviously not suicidal, but it is very much this feeling of I don't know what the point of life is.

And I I don't know, maybe we need like more words for that or maybe there's a word I don't know.

But it truly feels like this is not worth living.

Like what the.

I know this is not the point of life.

What the fuck is this?

And I get so mad.

Yeah.

I don't know if this is the word, but it was a word that was going around for a while.

I was gonna say I'm sure the children have a word for it.

Yeah.

Well, this wasn't this wasn't the children, but there was this article that Adam Grant wrote during COVID about languishing.

And it was, let's see, a sense of stagnation, emptiness and a lack of purpose.

That's the definition of languishing.

He wrote this whole article about it when everybody went to work from home and we were all just inside and our social lives were taken away from us and all of that.

And he described it as like kind of a version of burnout, but more of this like, purposeless depressive.

Yeah, purposeless feeling of like, what's the point of life?

What's the point of waking up and just doing this everyday?

I think it's that from that we had, we had that in like COVID shut down a lot of us, but there was, I think a lot of people still had a lot of free time around it because there just wasn't other things to fill it with.

You couldn't go places, you couldn't see people la, la, la.

What's the point?

So there's still a lack of purpose.

But then I get when it's like the lack of purpose, listen, I can fabricate a purpose.

That's actually literally I think the line that I, that I say in my first YouTube video to go and quote myself, Yes, my first YouTube video was made during COVID and there I had no fucking purpose on earth.

And I was like, it was something about like life is completely void of meaning.

So I decided to fabricate some meaning and did this like video.

But like, if there's a void, I'll figure out some way to understand myself or something to do.

But to me, it's like when you're purposeless and there's no point and you're sprinting and I'm sprinting all day.

I'm running around all day and there's no point.

What, so the devil can get rich that.

And then makes when the running around.

You have to do it tomorrow, you said.

No, it's like, and then I have to get up and do it tomorrow.

Like, oh, I have to get up at 6:00 AM to start an extra early day.

Starting it again tomorrow and I'll work till 12 and then I'll do it again like.

Oh yeah.

And then when the running around, and I think this is what you, some of what you're saying, the running around isn't even running around.

And I we're like a broken record about the remote work thing.

I know it's like come up every single week, but like I sit in this very room that I'm in right now at that desk right over there so bad, so many hours a day and I feel crazy like I've been running around.

I literally feel the exhaustion at the end of it, as though I like physically ran around all day and ran a bunch of errands except for devoid of the social parts and the fun part of talking to the barista and all of that.

Just the part where you're like running.

And I feel that way every single day except I'm just sitting in that chair like what?

What is that fucker and I?

Haven't gotten any cardio or any aerobic exercise at all or I'm actually getting like a what's called bed sores.

Yeah, this is the thing I feel with remote work, which like, sorry, I'm sure some people are gonna unsubscribe because we can't stop talking about it, which I totally get.

I'm not saying that there aren't.

Benefits.

There's some.

Remote work.

In fact, if someone came to me and was like you, your wish is granted.

Everyone's going back to work tomorrow and you also have to go film and film your YouTube videos in person in some building.

I would be like, I will be like, I won't cut you, you stupid bitch.

I'm not going to do that.

Get away.

But I feel, but there are so many things that are good for us that we don't feel like doing.

It is also like, I would also prefer to lay on the couch than to go for a run, That it is easier, it is more convenient, it does mean I have more free time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But the getting up and going to do this other thing, there's a payoff to doing things specifically that are a little inconvenient and take a little bit more effort than you totally feel like.

And then of course, the social and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And of course there's all the benefits and all the perks and people were commenting them in our last episode, very like perks to remote work, of course, that I agree with and that I think are amazing.

Having more time with your kids, having that space to do some activities, having this, having that.

But when it comes to like connection to anything outside the room you're sitting in?

Yeah.

I mean.

We're losing it.

I yeah, I think being at home is a really great way to connect with the people who are in the home.

Maybe we've also talked about ways that it's not sometimes to connect with yourself or your hobby or your whatever.

But, and I'm not saying an office cubicle, there's always great connection with other people, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying that it's like the fact that it's convenient in a lot of ways.

Convenience does not equal better for you.

And I think here's the.

Problem.

Yes, tell us.

I know him.

I know the problem because the problem is that the world has moved in this direction.

So right now there are a lot of companies that are returning to office that are asking their employees to come back to the office, whether it's a hybrid situation where they come in Monday.

Or Tuesday.

Thursday got to be the ideal.

I agree.

Like I think that I I can speak for myself and say that the type of person that I am, I would be doing better if I had a hybrid workplace situation.

I think I would for myself.

It is like period.

That is the fact I'm probably gonna try to find a Co working space, which I used to do and I stopped and I'm going to try again, I think because I do think I need to like fucking get out of this room.

And I think there's probably a lot of people like you and me who would do really well with a hybrid situation.

But I think part of the issue is that, OK, we started in a society pre COVID where for the most part work was in office and there was a certain expectation around the amount of work that you would output and the hours that you would work everyday.

And it's kind of like, OK, we're going to this company is going to generate like this much output, this much revenue, whatever based on this many employees coming into the office working their 40 hour weeks and going home.

What then happened is that COVID put us all at home and made us work from home where there's no longer time.

Boundaries on the top of your day or the bottom of.

Day.

Don't you feel like people were working more when we went home?

100% which is so.

Annoying when?

Yeah, when managers are like, we don't think people are as efficient.

We got so much more efficient.

So much more done.

And so now the standards for the output that you're generating for the revenue that the companies are wanting and expecting is more because we were all working non-stop because there's not the opportunity to get up and go to the water cooler to go get lunch at Sweet Green with your Co worker.

There's also not even something to go do at the end of the day because bars aren't open and people can't be together.

And like you're not even going to happy hour and meeting up with your friends at the end of the day.

So everybody was working a lot more.

And our economy, like our corporate, corporate world got used to this higher output.

So now as we try to say, go back to office, don't go back to office, whatever.

That's the tension, because actually I don't think that going back to the office, I actually think going back to the office will be better for humans, but not better for companies.

Great, fuck them.

Which I love, and maybe that'll convince.

Them.

Oh yeah.

But they don't know.

Idea, but they don't but the the.

Yeah.

Those two things aren't like lined up.

So companies are still going to want the same amount of output that has been generated from a work from home culture, but now they also want you to come into the office.

So people are like, how am I going to deliver on these higher, this higher expectation of output if I have to commute in the morning and if I have to leave early to go get my kids rather than just walking down the street because their preschool is a couple blocks away and so on and so forth.

And so it it's like there's an imbalance, there's a discrepancy between the output that's expected now that they're used to a remote first world and the need to be an office that like does not support that level of output.

That's a great point.

I can absolutely see.

And I was thinking about this during COVID when I was working in tech, like still working, you know, 9 to 5, whatever.

And I remember being like, did I work this hard in the office?

Like what did we do?

How often did we walk around and make jokes and like have a conversation and go take a break And like I could go for like a 25 minute break if I wanted, but I like wouldn't do that at home.

I remember seeing that and you know, obviously I don't work for a company right now, but if I went into an office, I would be yes, I can completely see working at this manic work from home speed.

But now you're in an office cell.

That's not good.

I'm not saying.

That's a big part, like people.

But we adapted if.

We adapted once, can't we unadapt?

Well, humans are so adaptable.

Humans can adapt, but can companies adapt backwards.

They don't want to do that.

You know, people people can are adaptable, but like the expectations of the output and revenue of corporate America that only wants to be on an upward trajectory.

So that is that is truly what's broken about it.

I would love to be in a hybrid situation.

I would love to get out of this room a couple of times a week.

And also, yeah, I would still be expected to generate the same amount that I'm generating now, which.

Is yeah, don't do that.

10 to 610 to 710 to 8.

Locked at the desk, not even getting up.

Locked to make myself lunch you.

Wouldn't even do it to a dog.

You wouldn't do it to a dog.

That should be the the test for everything the well people do.

I know it's gets me to think about.

People who lose their dogs at home.

All day, but people do all.

Kinds of.

Oh yeah.

But I remember, yeah, when I was like, my last tech office building was a windowless room and I was like, you wouldn't put any animal in a windowless room for 8 hours and think that was OK Why are we here?

Right.

Yeah, OK, so what's something silly?

OK, I.

Can't.

I can't.

I can't.

OK, so I did this isn't silly.

I did go maybe I did tell you this.

You mentioned Co working spaces and I'm like, I haven't seen one that does the things that it needs to do.

I went like the things like to actually have like hugs.

Community holds me.

Like holds me like.

I think there's this like idea that it's like it's going to be more like an office where it's a community in this.

No, it's just people working from home but in the same building.

Yeah, the.

Thing that it helps for me.

I agree.

At least you're in a different At least you're in a different environment.

You're in a different environment, so it's separation from your home 'cause it's hard, it can be hard to like be living in your workplace.

But then the other thing, which yeah, you talk about with the design elements of it too.

And then the other thing is like I do really well.

What's it called with?

I love body doubling.

Like somebody sitting next to me and doing work makes me feel more focused to be able to do work.

So just being in a coffee shop or being in a Co working space or even like going and sitting in your living room and us working at the same time like that helps me feel focused and feel less alone even if we're both working.

Like even if there's not a conversation that even happens, it's just another person is there and I feel.

OK, it helps.

More normal.

I feel more normal, yeah.

I just feel a little more grounded than when it's just me in this room being like talking to people through a screen and I'm.

Sick of the screen?

Sharing all of them.

Yeah.

Anyway, I love you.

So say something silly.

I was talking to my friend today your your comment of feeling normal.

I was talking to my friend about this, like, consignment antique store I went to, and she was like, oh, yeah, I know the same one.

And there's that woman who runs it.

I was like, yeah, yeah, I know her.

And she was like, she is so normal.

And she said it.

It was like a high compliment.

And it was such a hilarious comment to me.

But I also, it won't make sense because no one knows this woman, but this woman is so normal.

Like what's?

That mean I.

Think it means that like, most owners of an antique shop are like kooky characters and you're like, how did someone give you this shop?

And this woman is just like the mom of someone.

She could just be like a soccer mom or something.

And it just made me laugh so hard.

To be normal.

Doesn't make it.

She was like, oh, she is so normal.

And it was just like, that's.

Just like a regular lady.

Yeah, just really this lady.

Great lady.

I want to feel normal, but I don't want to be described as normal.

That is true.

That would be damning.

What's the worst thing that you could overhear someone describing you as that that plot, like realistically, that they think is a compliment.

Not like she's a loose a whore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I've always, I've always not appreciated nice.

Like if nice is the only word you can say, then I'm like.

Just makes me think you're probably.

Interesting than nice.

Yeah, I just assume you didn't really listen to me, but.

Yeah, so that's not my fave.

I wouldn't be offended to me because I know what people mean.

Sometimes I'm complimented when people say I'm nice because I think I am really nice and some people can't see back past the screaming.

But I'm really nice to people.

Like the way I treat people is really nice.

And so when people see that, it actually makes me feel really seen because I think it's.

Much nice.

Easier.

It's nice.

It's nice.

OK, what's what?

What would someone have to say about you to be like?

Wait, is that your worst?

I have to think about it.

That's my immediate.

Normal.

She's so normal.

Normal or normal would be fucking.

Weird.

A hilarious way to describe something.

That's why.

That's pretty weird.

She's that Lady is so normal.

That's the thing about nice is like, nice is a normal way to describe a person and compliment them.

So even though I have a little bit of a thing in my head where I'm like, really, that's all you got.

I know that that's a very, that's a perfectly nice normal thing to say about somebody.

So I'm not offended, but I am just kind of like.

It's a missed opportunity.

I'm dynamic.

My dynamic attribute.

I acknowledge my dynamism for once.

Acknowledge these dynamites.

Yeah, maybe we should bring normal back.

Everyone's trying to be too interesting.

It should be normal.

I would like to see one Gen.

Z child taking pride in being normal.

Oh no, that won't happen.

It won't.

They don't want that.

No.

I would be more happy if someone says like, literally, if I overheard someone be like, yeah, she was kind of weird, like.

I think I would like that.

I would be.

Like, I feel seen by that I agree.

I mean, it's all about.

Time.

And I would be like why?

And I wouldn't know why, but I would know they were right.

Right, and I'd want to.

I think I like the word more than nice.

Like if somebody called me friendly, I think I would appreciate that.

OK, I don't I.

Personally like that because I am friendly.

Yeah, I guess to me, friendly is more like a gesture.

It's like a rapping like true bitch.

Couldn't be.

Friendly.

I don't know, I.

Think a bitch can be nice?

Because being nice is like pleasantries.

OK, yeah, true, true.

Touché.

But I think we're saying the same.

I think we.

I think we just just.

Whatever we're applying to those words, yeah.

Words are made-up words.

Words are just sounds.

You know what I mean?

Words are just sounds.

That's what this whole episode is just.

Sounds, I think I would, I don't know.

It was a great question, Caroline, that they would think as a compliment.

Yeah, that's what makes it hard 'cause I could see someone being like, oh, if they said she tired.

I think it's.

Yeah, you know, if they like she broke.

She's so quirky.

I would.

It wouldn't be horrible, but I'd be like, I don't feel like you got it.

Yeah.

It's like this went awry somewhere.

Yeah, I think quirky is a word that people that became overused in like the Zooey Deschanel New Girl era where they were like, she's so quirky, she has bangs.

Yeah, it's just the bangs.

It's just the bangs.

It's like, so nobody wants to be called quirky anymore after that, I think.

And I agree.

That's a good one.

OK, I wanted to think of more I guess.

I don't know why though.

I have a complaint.

OK, I care about that.

And I already know that there's a solution for it, but my coffee.

Speaking of mugs from the beginning of the episode, my coffee and my tea don't stay warm for long enough because it's so cold here now.

Like if you go outside.

No, no, like in my home and I mean we have a heater, it's working fine, but like the coffee is getting so I'm not a fast.

It's that cold.

It's that cold in your apartment that your coffee is cooling at a faster temperature.

Than in the summer I think.

I think it is cooling at a faster temperature than in the summer.

Now I should time it because Ryan always tells me like, no, you're just taking a sip and then leaving it for 20 minutes and then taking another sip.

I believe, Ryan, that I feel like that would have to be like such a significant difference to make it cooled notably faster.

It feels faster to me, and I'm Maybe I'll do a science experiment and report back on how long it's been out.

Yeah, I'll set a timer tomorrow when I drink my coffee and I have.

A feeling it's gonna be faster.

Really.

I faster than what?

You don't have anything to compare it to yet.

All you're well, you know what?

Data.

We don't know anything.

I also just realized something else, which is that I never drink hot coffee in the summer, so I don't have so you're.

Just discovering you're just discovering that water doesn't stay hot all day.

You don't have any benchmark.

Oh, you're just you just have a complaint against.

Just a baby.

I'm just feeling like everything has been really stressful and I just want my coffee to be hot and I just want it to be in a new Christmas mug.

Right.

So a lot of a lot of available solutions.

And what's the one that you said you already have in mind?

There's like a lot of solutions.

Well I do have a one of those Yeti like thermos like a thermos.

You know, the problem is they don't feel that cute about they.

They aren't cute.

Like they don't make me feel cute about myself.

That's correct.

So I don't love that solution, but it is.

A drink out of this piece of metal might as well be drinking out of a tin cup, no?

Yeah, there's also these like tin coffee mugs that have a little platform on them that you plug in and it keeps your coffee warm, but those aren't cute either.

Why do I want I don't want a hot.

Plate.

It's like a little mini hot plate.

Exactly.

Why am I bringing the hot plate to different rooms with me like I am moving?

You would not believe the mileage this cup of coffee gets when.

I'm That's so true.

I don't even know where.

Such a good point.

Like I'm unplugging now I have to unplug it from my bedside and bring it over to my desk.

Are you fucking kidding me?

You fucking kidding me?

So none of the solutions really do the trick.

Is this a?

Is this a business idea?

How do we keep this coffee hot?

Cute Christmas mugs.

Do you have a microwave?

Yeah, but I feel like I need to clean it.

Oh, okay, well, don't you know, keep the coffee in the mug when you put it in there.

No, sure.

It just, I feel like it kind of smells like meat.

Broccoli smoke a lot of meat and then like he heats it and then I'm like, I can't put my coffee in this microwave.

So that's a me problem.

That's an US problem.

Here's a question.

Yeah, microwave related.

If you have a pie like round, OK.

If you've had a pie round and you eat part of the pie, it's in a pie dish, Sure.

It doesn't have to be refrigerated.

It's just a pie that can be lukewarm during the day for several days and you just have it sitting around a dish.

Half it's been eating out of the dish.

Where are you putting that in between eating it?

Like when you cover it with Saran or whatever, Where you storing it?

I guess it depends on the type of pie, but you're saying this is a type of pie that doesn't have to be in the fridge?

So it's not to be in the fridge, yeah.

Probably.

It's probably just out on the counter.

It's.

Just out on the counter, right?

Yeah.

Well, someone around here keeps putting that thing in the microwave and then what?

For a week when I every time I go and open the microwave, I'm like, it's a surprise pie.

And I'm like, why is this pie in here?

And it just feels.

Weird.

I, I, Yeah, I I'm shocked.

I don't know what to do with that.

I haven't even confronted Justin about this yet, but.

I did grow up in a household and I actually wonder if your family did this because I have been told there are people who theorize that this is an immigrant thing.

Right.

Definitely.

I'm not.

I'm not an immigrant house.

I don't know if you know that.

Right.

So that's why I'm wondering, OK, OK, in my immigrant household growing up, my mom kept our pans, like oven sheet pans and stuff like that in the oven.

I do that as a storage.

Place you do that.

Maybe you have a little more in you.

Yeah, Yeah.

OK.

It just makes sense to me.

If you don't have enough storage, why wouldn't you?

I agree there.

You heat them up every once in a while by accident.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

You do.

You start the oven and then you're like, you open it.

Oh, shit.

Yeah, that's what the pie in the microwave reminds me of.

Except for the fact that pie is easy that I want to access and I would just forget that.

I would go to the kitchen looking for pie and be like where's my pie?

And then it's like I'm in the mood to like have some reheated like chicken Curry and now I'm looking at a pie that I didn't expect.

Right.

I'm sorry if you're not getting the apology you need at home, I'm sorry.

Yeah, it was like one time it was weird, but it's it hasn't less lost.

It's like weird shine.

No matter What did he have to say about it?

Open that.

Up.

Have you talked?

Have you like asked him what this is?

No, I haven't worked up the courage or the language yet.

OK.

And that's OK.

I think we're done here.

It's a minimum viable product.

Thank you minimum.

Viable of this podcast episode.

Check it out, Jay.

Thanks for being here.

We'll see you next week.

Kisses.

Your hair looks cute.

Thanks, I got a cut.

It's a little shorter.

It looks good.

Thanks.