Welcome to the Play-Based Learning podcast.

I'm your host, Kristin Arby Peterson, and maybe your new teacher bestie that is here to hype you up, maybe give you a motivating kick in the pants and teach you all I know about play and childhood.

I am here to help you challenge old and outdated practices and inspire you to create a truly developmentally appropriate early childhood environment that fosters creativity.

Curiosity and joy in the children that you care for.

Let's set the stage for a lifelong love of learning.

Let's get going.

Good morning, Christie.

Green War from Dirt Learning in Utah is with me today on the Play-Based Learning podcast, and Christine and I go way back, like how long have we known each other?

When did you do your retreat in Washington, Oregon.

Oh, the, oh my gosh.

The Play and Nature Conference.

We need to revive that.

Oh, sure.

Do.

That had to be 2021 because we had it scheduled during COVID and then we had to move it a year out, and so it must have been 2021.

Mm-hmm.

Oh my goodness.

A minute.

Wild.

Okay.

So we jumped on this zoom this morning.

So we record on Zoom.

Um, and I just asked Christie, okay, tell me what's on your heart.

Like, what are you really, what are you thinking a lot about right now?

And she said, well, basically she's gonna be, um, telling us about.

Why she hid her play-based learning practice and like what it's like now.

And maybe a lot of you can relate because I, I do feel like a lot of people who are play-based hide it.

Like, we don't want people to know because we don't know how to advocate for it.

We don't know.

I mean, like, I feel like everybody's on a play-based learning journey and it's, you never get to the end of that journey.

And so you almost feel like you don't know enough to share with the world because you feel like you need to know it all before you share it with the world, your knowledge with the world, but.

I always teach people, you only need to be two steps ahead of somebody with knowledge in order to teach them.

So, okay.

So here we go.

Welcome, Christie.

I just totally commandeered that whole opening and you haven't even had a chance to say anything.

So we're gonna, we're we're diving in.

Okay.

So tell me, what made you feel like you had to hide it?

Why did you have to hide play?

Well, because we live in a world where academics had priority or that's.

What the school system was.

And so when I got my degree, that's kind of where they, they pushed things.

Even though my degree was early childhood, everybody I graduated with had a teaching certificate, so I felt they were more qualified than I was.

Hmm.

But what I knew deep down was each kid was an individual and then if I watched them, I could learn how to help them learn the best.

Absolutely.

But everybody's like, no, they need to do worksheets.

They need to sit at circle, they need to have structured games.

And I was like, no, they need opportunities.

Yeah.

And so I hid.

They need lot.

They do need love.

Like that's the most important thing.

I mean, once all their basic needs are met, right?

Maslow Love is like one of the hugest puzzle pieces.

And when we are pushing, pushing, pushing for the next thing and the next stage, and the next circle time and the next sit down teacher directed activity, we're not loving on them.

We don't have the time and like.

How, but there's like a statistic out there.

There's 90% of your subconscious is built before the age of eight.

And so if you are lacking love from like the important people in your life, like that's gonna have detrimental effects to them as they age.

So.

And we know that 90% of the brain is built like the actual brain, not just subconscious is built before the age of eight as well.

Like it's so, it's such important work and when we're thinking that the academic piece is so much more important than the actual person, that's not cool.

At all?

No.

Okay.

Um, did, was there anybody out there who ever made you feel like that you can pinpoint that play isn't enough?

There was a lot because all the other programs were their, um, enrollment was full.

Yeah.

They were very confident in their academic skills where, like you said, I loved each kid for an individual and I saw them for their neurodiverse abilities.

I saw the kid for who they were.

And so the pressure of, there was four programs that started at the same time as I did, and they all were academic based.

And so I was like, well, I'm different, so I should hide or I should keep the door closed, which was really frustrating and I let it happen for far too long.

16 years I hid my program.

And when you say hid it, what do you mean by that?

I didn't share with people.

I didn't tell people about it.

People just slowly found me.

I had small classes, six to maybe eight kids for a handful of years.

Um, I focused more on teaching for a federal program where I do my program in the morning and then I would go teach somewhere else because I was guaranteed kids, I was guaranteed an income or I was doing it in my home.

I didn't trust myself.

To put it out there to get the income I needed.

Yeah.

Ugh.

It's so hard because like, I mean, if you think back on it and you know, we can't change the past and we, there's all the what ifs, but you, you think about like, what if you had the courage 16 years ago just to go all in, how many more kiddos could have.

Ben benefited from that.

However, looking forward, and now I wanna kind of like talk about what you're doing now that you're not hiding anymore.

Um, like how many more kids, because you hid for so long, how many more kids you're, you're benefiting now and reaching now because of the work you're doing.

So what does not hiding look for like for you now?

So, like I said, my program started with six to eight kids.

I am full with a wait list of 95 spots this year.

No.

So in the last five years, once I finally let my passion come out and go, no, there's a community, there's research for this.

I have watched these kids change and I start sharing those stories of allowing that kid to be an individual to process their emotions in a safe way.

I had a huge experience for my summer camp, so I have about 20 kids during the summer, so it's smaller.

But during the school year, I have 95 almost a hundred opportunities for children to be in my influence where I'm now passionate about what I do and I see each kid for their individual needs.

Um, I have kids that range from autistic, nonverbal, to kids that.

I don't know what typical or normal is because every kid's an individual.

Yeah.

But kids that have more skills and have mastered some things.

So I'm starting to tell people that the kid is what is important.

Yeah.

I love that.

That I don't even know what typical is because everybody, yeah.

Is their own person.

I love that.

Mm.

That's a good one.

That's gold.

You need to like post that somewhere.

Yes.

I don't even know what typical is.

Yeah.

Okay.

Tell, tell me what the like f this moment was like, what's the moment where you were like, I'm done hiding?

I'll tell you what the moment was is I have some children that could be classified neurodiverse.

Mm-hmm.

And I fought them through the public school system and because I was hiding and I was like, oh, a teaching certificate will make me more qualified.

My degree in early childhood, birth to eight, I didn't feel like qualified me, but if I go back to get a teaching certificate in special ed, so I re went back, got a second degree, and I got to the end point and I needed to take a test to prove that I could read and write well.

That is something I personally struggle with.

My grammar, my understanding and regurgitating is really hard.

So I took this test seven times.

Paid a hundred dollars your time, took the test seven times, missed it by two points, and I finally had the aha that a test doesn't tell me how qualified I am.

A test doesn't tell me that what I do doesn't matter.

That I can't nurture these kids, that I can't support these kids because maybe my grammar's a little crazy and maybe my words don't come across right.

And I finally said, that's not gonna define me.

Because my last 16 years experiences my 22 years in working in the early childhood field.

I am a qualified teacher and I found a community that was supportive that you, you were showing the world that things can be different.

And I said, I'm gonna do that.

And it was a little bit chaos and messy as I shifted and as I tried to put myself out there.

But I was like.

I will not let a child be told how they should be.

I will not force kids to act a certain way or to hold their bodies still when they need to move.

Mm.

Yes.

And so, oh my gosh, I, I am embrace the dirt learning.

I was following a lot of forest schools and I was like, I can't be a forest school.

I'm a flatlander.

No.

We live and learn in the dirt and we move our bodies.

We problem solve all day long, and that was important.

Amazing.

Oh my goodness.

Okay.

So do you, here's another question for you.

When you went back and you did all of that work for that degree, the teaching certificate, special education, is there, I mean, did you take forward a lot of the things that you learned or was it just like.

I don't know.

I think back to my college, everything I know now about teaching and learning was not taught to me when I was going to school for my teaching degree.

And I have a bachelor's degree in education, so I don't, everything I've learned about play and about how young children actually learn, I learned after college.

So I wanna know, did you actually learn things that you can carry forward, or was it just like, what was the, what was it like?

I learned how to learn.

Okay.

I learned that everybody learns differently.

Yeah.

Yes, I was gaining more information, but I had already had a basis of what kids need.

Yeah.

You know, that, you know, can I put into words exactly each theorist and how it goes.

But I had been in the field long enough that I naturally knew things, and I was blessed enough to have those skills, but I learned that not everybody learns the same way and that it can't look a certain way.

Absolutely.

And so as I was struggling and the first time I did in the first degree, I did in person at a brick and mortar.

The second one I did online, which I found was actually kind of supportive 'cause then if I got distracted I could pause and rewind.

And so I learned how to learn.

It wasn't that I learned more information, I learned that, um, unfortunately the system of special education is all about paperwork.

And not about loving and understanding that kid and flowing as that kid needs.

Yeah.

They want everything structured, which I understand there's a balance of structure and there's a balance of free flow, but I learned that it doesn't all fit in a straight line in a box.

Mm.

And that because I was embracing play and in including that kid's individual needs things flow better.

Yeah.

The learning happens better.

So I learned a lot of information, but mostly I learned everybody learns differently.

They do, don't they?

So now how has that changed how you show up with children?

It's just embraced each kid.

I like to say a, I created this word because everybody says neuro um, diversity.

I like to call it diversability.

Okay.

Because everybody is different and has different abilities.

Yeah.

And that's what I focus on.

What.

First, the trusting relationship with a kid and then understanding what is his abilities and how can I support how he's different.

Yeah.

And so instead of individualizing and diff different, let's say that word, differentiating that word D, each.

If I look at, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I look at their abilities, I look at the positive side.

What do they bring to our school community?

Like how can I support this kid?

And I, and I like to focus on the kid, their family, and then the community because each one of us is individual and needs that individual attention support.

Yeah.

How they need.

Hmm.

So Diversability, I love that.

Um, okay, so tell me.

You yourself.

So community is important.

We know, right?

We create those communities within our programs.

You create that community within dirt learning.

How have you created that for yourself in the play-based learning world?

So once I decided that this works and I need to share it.

I started to share and let people know, and it has been so fun because people have come to me and be like, Hey, can you collaborate with me?

Can you mentor with me?

I like what you do.

How can I put it in my program?

So I love that I've been able to teach other early childhood professionals through conferences and through one-on-one things, because we all want that support.

And so they can come to my space.

We have conversations and just letting them know, yeah, I hid for way too long.

Please don't hide and please do the same thing I'm doing because you are gonna hit needs differently.

I am really passionate about individual kids, very passionate about kids that I sometimes call myself a second chance school.

Mm-hmm.

Kids that get kicked outta daycares and other programs.

Mostly, unfortunately, for developmental needs, but I have a space where that kid walks in and is loved for who they're, and they're allowed to move and express emotions, whatever that looks like.

And so I share that with other people.

You know, you've got to let this kid be a kid.

Yeah.

And so it's fun to collaborate with other programs, and I've been able to work with four or five different programs too.

Step into more outside play, creating this true play base, not just, I printed some things off and the kids are playing.

'cause it's a game is Yeah.

The kids are allowed to create their own game.

Mm-hmm.

And not, um, what do you say to people now that you've found your voice when they question play?

When they question play, I, I had this situation come up the other day and I said, I don't force kids.

I allow kids.

So they're learning constantly.

And so I try to let 'em know they're learning this, this, and this.

These are the opportunities and the invitations, these are how they learn, and I just follow 'em.

I, I'm a facilitator, not a teacher.

That was another mic drop moment.

That was another like, I don't force kids.

I allow kids like, amazing.

You need to take that and run with that too.

These are good.

So good.

How do you help other teachers who are stuck in that like teacher directed pressure cooker that we've created in this society?

So I'm their cheerleader.

Yeah.

Like I, I let them know through my experiences, granted my experiences different than them, but you can't see in the video, but it says, be kind and be brave.

I have taken that in the last couple years as my rules for our classroom because I wasn't brave for so long.

Hmm.

And so I finally was like, take that courage and be brave.

Reach out to me.

Have a conversation.

When you're struggling, let's talk.

Yeah.

Have that community and support because I didn't feel like I had it for so long.

Mm-hmm.

And finally, just to be brave.

Try things that challenge you just a little bit.

Have that courage to use your voice.

Maybe you don't write well like me, maybe you can't articulate things, but my passion and my fire is there.

And I'll cheer you on all the way through because I know it's what's best for those kids.

Ah, so good.

Um, what gives you hope about the future of early childhood education?

What gives me hope?

Yeah.

Hope that these kids will embrace their individuality.

For whatever it looks like that they will have the confidence to stand up and say, stop.

I don't like that.

Or I feel different about something.

And be willing to voice their opinions where it be different or similar to, to be brave, to stand up for themselves and to change the world.

Mm-hmm.

To be those ones that are going out and supporting other people that are going out there and, and finding.

Creative ways to do things that are not so traditional.

Yeah.

That don't have to follow a straight line, that they can flow and move through it.

Yeah.

What, what's one play-based hill soapbox that you are 100% willing to die on?

Oh my gosh.

Let that kid be themselves and their individual, like, I will fight for each kid and their needs.

To stay away from labels to, to give them the support they need that each kid gets to be, and it may look different than everybody else.

I wanna know.

Okay.

So like, kind of going back, let's, let's go through the, um, what this looks like in action, in your spaces, in your classrooms, in your school.

What does that look like?

Letting each child be 100% themselves?

So you've said that you, you kind of get the second chance.

The kids who need a second chance.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and we all know that those, there's a lot of kiddos out there who have very high needs, emotionally, socially, and many times we are not set up.

In classrooms to be able to support those children, because we don't have the support staff for it.

We don't have the extra teachers, we don't have the space.

So how, what does that look like in practice, in your program?

So first and for foremost, is that trusting relationship.

When that kid comes to the classroom, they're greeted, they're said hi.

They're allowed, you know.

We, we create a specific routine for whatever they need.

And then I am fortunate enough to have a lot of space where they can take safe risks, where they're, I can say yes to so many things, and then I that behavior is a message.

So why was he fighting?

Why was he hitting, why was he struggling?

And it's a conversation with the child, with the kid.

Excuse me.

As with observing them and then letting them, giving those opportunities for them to have big emotions, giving them a safe space, you know, to move, to grow, to challenge traditional things.

So yeah, the biggest part is I'm able to have enough space to say yes.

Hmm.

I love that.

And I love the term safe risks.

Mm-hmm.

It's another good thing, a term you should coin.

I don't know if somebody else coined that, but that's good too.

Are you writing all this down?

I'm writing this down.

This is so good.

Oh my goodness.

Um, okay.

If, here's a final question.

If play-based, if your play-based journey was a reality show, what would you call it?

Well, I would call it Christie's Chaos.

Because it was a journey and, and you have to overcome so many personal boundaries with order and structure and routine and unlearn things.

I've been taught my whole life.

I had to, I had to go through my own journey emotionally to go, you have to be quiet, you have to sit still, all those things.

So it was a lot of unlearning.

So I think.

Christie's chaos journey is basically it, because you have to get through that chaos to get the order again and to see how it works.

Yeah.

And there were days that as I was stepping into this, I had to find the balance for me, for my space, for each kid.

And so there was a lot of learning and adjusting and test, measure, adjust, test out a new way.

Did it work?

Let's readjust it.

So, yeah.

Okay.

If you could only take, so let, let's say you had to move buildings and you could only take five things from your current school with you, not people.

What things would you take with you?

I would take my space, I would take dirt.

Can't take your space with, you're going to a different space.

Like, like openness.

I need, I need room.

Oh, that, that, that.

Okay, got it.

So it has to have area.

Do you know what I mean?

That's what be like, I can't take my whole space.

Okay, got it.

Yes, I got it now.

And then I would take dirt, dirt.

Yes, because, okay, because you're dirt learning.

Because I'm dirt learning, but there's so much grounding and microbes and all the, the stuff of the dirt.

So it needs to be big.

Yeah, it needs to have dirt.

It needs to have, what else do I love?

Because I just want 'em to move their bodies so things they can go up and down and around and I would always have swings.

Um, yeah.

Like inside my program, I have like a fireman's pole and a climbing rope because I love those.

'cause that's all the movement they need.

Space for move.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then I would take the love that I have for each kid.

Aw.

So it's not a physical thing, it's just would have to be part of another program is just to seeing and understanding that kid and that nurturing and love.

I love that.

Amazing.

Okay.

I have to tell you that.

So way back, I don't know.

I think, did you take the play-based learning masterclass?

I don't remember.

There was one time where we had a conversation and I remember you being like, I just, I'm scared to write anything and put it out there.

Like, I don't like writing.

I, and you said grammar's hard for you and I can't take tests, but I do wanna tell you that you have a voice mm-hmm.

And everything like.

All of the things that you've said are like mic drop moments here on this podcast, and you, you need to share it in a way, and you are sharing it in a way that works for you and you are individualizing your own journey here in this play-based learning world.

And like, keep going, keep sharing because.

You just inter, you just motivated me like I have goosebumps because I just love the, you're just, the way that you say things just hits and it's succinct and it's not long.

To a point, like you've got your points and you just go for it.

And like, I'm jealous of that because that's huge.

I can't think like that.

Like if somebody asked me these questions, I would be like, Ugh.

I don't know that.

My play-based learning reality show, I'd be called, like, it takes me a long time to think up things, to respond to things, but like, you've got it girl.

Thank you.

Keep going.

Okay.

So if people wanna connect with you, because I know community's important and you're willing to share this play-based learning love with the world, where do they find you?

How can they connect with you and do you have anything that they can take advantage of?

Um, I'm in the process of doing a parent support class, so that will Okay.

Come out this fall because parents need, um.

A side note that, that I do is body mapping.

And so kids didn't come with a manual, but their body tells a story and is a map.

And so I do some body mapping things, um, on the side.

And so everything is through dirt learning.

My social media, both Facebook and Instagram, and then my website.

And then there's a site on the website that says connections with Christie.

And so that's where I do my parent support classes, where you can have a, a body mapping session to see.

What your body is telling you, and it is part of your traits and characteristics and things like that.

So, and then I do some breath work on the side.

So I do a lot of things that come together, but everything currently is connected through my Dirt Learning website.

Amazing Dirt learning.com, dirt learning.com.

Amazing.

Okay.

Thank you, Christie, for being here on the podcast.

I appreciate you and the work you're doing.

Keep showing up, keep advocating for those kiddos and keep being kind and being brave because we need more people like you in the world.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

Mm-hmm.

If you liked what you heard today, share this podcast with your coworkers, admin, or maybe even your partner.

And I love getting five star reviews so more people can embrace play, hit follow, or subscribe so you never miss an episode, or connect with me on Instagram or my website, piston rb peterson.com.

Until next time.