Hey Shannon, Hey, pretty girl, how are you doing.

I'm doing really good.

How are you?

I did not mean that in any kind of way by referring to you as girl.

It's okay.

That's on a spiritual level that transcends time and space.

I read you call me a girl, then call me ma'am.

So I just saw this real where so they're like, what's just happened.

I was leaving and the guy left the door open, and I said thank you, and he was like, you're welcome, you fan ugly bitch, and I was and then she pauses and he's like, no, he said thank you, ma'am.

But might as well.

I was somewhere on the baby before yesterday and I bought something and I was getting ready to leave and I turned around.

I grabbed my stuff and I heard excuse me, ma'am, and I thought, oh, she's not talking to me.

But that was because I forgot to sign the slip because I'd used my debit card.

It has bothered me.

Ever, in the past two days, I've been thinking, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.

It's just bouncing around in my head and I'm just like, really, I look like a ma'am.

Oh, we should be embracing ma'am like we finally made it to ma'am.

You have made lots of us.

Lots of people don't make it to ma'am or what is the thing for sir people?

But sir is yeah, so it's just generic.

But I wouldn't call like a twenty year old sir.

You remember an absolutely fabulous when somebody would call Patsy and they'd be like madame and she's like, Mozelle, madame felle, Oh, I love pat They went to France, so funny.

Damn, Maemoiselle.

That's hilarious.

Yes, tell us girl, you have a good story for us.

Yeah, it's a pretty gruesome one.

So before we get into it, I just want to ask everyone to hit subscriber follow on whatever app you're listening to.

You'll get notifications when we have new episodes out.

So this one, I think is kind of well known.

I've heard of it before, but I'm thinking maybe I've only heard of it because I'm a sick fuck.

I don't know, So I'm going to get into it.

On May seventh, two thousand and seven, a man from the town of Kurum in the Czech Republic called the police.

He had set up a video baby monitor an attempt to have it prepared for when his partner got home from the hospital with their newborn daughter.

So he's busy setting this up.

However, when he turned it on, the video that was going wasn't coming from his house.

The video he was seeing was of a small boy naked and hogtied in a tiny empty room, laying face down on a concrete floor.

So, of course he calls the police, and when the police arrived, they quickly discovered that the video feed was coming from the flat next door from where the man was living.

So police go over there.

They knock, and the women occupying the flat were really less than cooperative, but the police did manage to make their way in and they eventually found the small cellar where they discovered a seven year old boy named Andre.

After untying him and bringing him to the ambulance, he began answering questions for the police.

During his first interview, he told the officers that it all started when they met their adopted sister Anishka, So I'm gonna call her Anna, okay.

Klara Maova had been described as a good mother by her younger sister, Gabriella, her parents, and her professors at university, who met the boys often when she would bring them on school trips.

Yakub was older than Andre by two years, so Clara has these two sons, Cub and Andre.

Clara would play with their children, take them on vacation, and she was an affectionate parent.

No one was concerned about her ability or desire to care for her children.

Over time, though, her behavior became more erratic and unstable, leading to her separation and eventual divorce from her husband.

She was described as being gullible, naive, and easily manipulated.

Clara was thirty one years old when she moved in with her older sister Katerina after her divorce and as a young mother.

Clara was working toward her degree in teaching, and she had a job working with Katerina at the youth center that she ran.

In the summer of two thousand and five, Katerina approached Clara about a young girl, a Norwegian orphan named Anna.

Katerina was wondering if Clara could look after her since she was doing so well raising her boys.

Katerina described anna situation to her sister, telling her that the girl was ill and traumatized.

Over time, Anna opened up to Clara, telling her about her life after her parent's death.

She had been in an orphanage where she had been sold to a pedophile ring in doorway.

She was traumatized after being raised in a violent environment consisting of physical and sexual abuse.

Clara looked over her file and learned she was suffering from a variety of illnesses, including leukemia, epilepsy, and kidney failure, which required regular hospitalizations for the administration of different medications and treatments.

The doctor stated she would be lucky to live to the age of sixteen.

Clara decided to welcome her into the house around September two thousand and five, and this is when life changed for Andre and Yaka.

Clara cared for Anna at the instructions of her doctor, who would use text and email to communicate.

When they met in person, it would be late at night in his car, so she never really got to see his face.

The doctor told Clara that in order for Anna to heal from her past trauma, she was going to have to feel completely at home.

Clara needed to lavish Anna with praise and attention, and reassurance.

He had also diagnosed her with a condition that caused spinal fluid to build up, but he said it could be treated with massage therapy.

One of the treatments prescribed for Clara to perform on Anna to assist this condition was to rub all over her body, especially the intimate areas, in order to desensitize and reprogram her past sexual trauma.

As Anna began to improve, the care of Clara's sons began to fall away, taking care of Anna became an obsession.

Clara would often send her boys to stay with their grandparents while she was busy caring for this girl, who she was beginning to consider her daughter.

Katerina had been taking Anna to her chemotherapy, and her doctor would continue to treat her remotely, sending care instructions by text and email.

Clara would authorize or perform whatever he suggested.

It didn't take long before Clara said she wanted to adopt the girl.

By the summer of two thousand and six, Clara had been working to adopt Anna without success for almost nine months.

Anna's doctors began expressing concern about the family situation.

Anna had told him that Andrea and Yakub were mean to her.

He felt she would not ever be part of the family if they didn't accept her.

The doctor suggested using corporal punishment on her son's to make them behave They had quote evil spirits end quote, and their mother needed to cure them with strong discipline, tough love, and physical punishment.

Beginning in July two thousand and six, Clara started looking for any excuse to beat her boys with her bare hands, wooden spoons, and belt buckles.

She would have them kneel for hours at a time, or threaten to lock them in small rooms or cupboards, where they would be left with no food, water, or access to a toilet.

At night, they would sleep on a mat on the floor.

They were isolated from other members of their family and friends, and this continued for about five weeks.

By August two thousand and six, An his doctors ordered Clara to take her sons to a small cottage in Versa Betiska and I probably said that.

Wrong sounded like a song to my ears.

Oh my dear great, I know, thank you You're in the secluded cabin there they would re educate the boys.

In late August, Andre and Yakub arrived at the property, surrounded by trees which worked to block the view from all sides.

Their aunt, Katerina was already there.

Katerina had two dog cages with her, one for each brother.

They would be locked in the dog kennels during their time there.

The cajas were too small for the boys to stand up in or move around, fed scraps of food, and were not released to use the bathroom, forcing them to lay in their own urine and excrement, and they were forbidden from making any noise without having the threat of violence held over them.

The first night when the re education quote unquote began, the boys were blindfolded, they were restrained, and they were beaten by their mother and their aunt.

Andrea and Yakub were held under water until they believed they would drown.

Their mother scratched and stabbed the boys with a fork.

The children were made to memorize offensive and adult sayings, and they would be punished if they didn't get the words correct when asked to repeat the phrases.

Anna was kept separate from Yakub and Andrea.

She was being appropriately doted on for the doctor's orders.

When she asked if Yakub and Andrea were mean to her, did she feel at home?

Anna accused Andrea of hurting her, causing him to be particularly targeted by the abusers, who were regularly receiving orders from the doctor over text an email.

Clara reported to him that Andre wasn't responding to the re education plan, so he told her exactly what to do next.

The next time Yakub asked for a glass of water, Clara handed it to Andre to give to his brother.

He did as he was told, and Yakub drake from the glass.

Then Clara and Katerina took Yakub away, leaving Andre scared, confused and alone.

When Clara returned, she told Andre that the water he gave to his brother was poisoned.

At this point, she took Andre out into the backyard and showed him his brother's lifeless body in a freshly dug grave.

But she said if Andre behaved himself and followed all the instructions, Yakub could be brought back to life.

Andre promised to be good, and Yakob stood up after he drank the water.

Yakub had been brought upstairs and told to pretend to be dead until Andre promised to be good.

This is so fucked.

This is fucking horrible.

Now, and this is two thousand and six, two thousand and seven.

Yeah, this is like twenty years ago.

Right.

It sounds like some medievals.

Dumb shit, dumb right, people can't think critically.

I know, it's just horrific.

The next instructions the doctors gave to Clara were straight out of a horror movie.

He told Clara she was going to have to burn Andre's buttocks, cut off a piece of his flesh, and feed it to the boy.

Ah.

Yeah.

At this requirement, Clara began to resist.

The doctor assured her that the re education procedures he was asking her to perform were scientifically prove it.

This is going to work.

They were almost through the whole program.

Clara refused.

The doctor expressed his disappointment, but said there was another way, and she was asked to leave the cottage.

Clara and Anna left to return home, but before they left, Clara authorized the doctor's backup abuse cal to do whatever was ordered.

Katerina would wait for them to arrive.

The backup team consisted of Yans Turik and I'm gonna call him Turik, Khans Skurla and I will call him Yans and Hannah Basova, who Andrea and Jakub knew as Anti Nisi.

So we have Turik, Yans and Anti Nissi.

Okay, they're the what did you call them?

The cavalry, the abuse cavalry.

Okay.

Each of them was closely connected to Katerina's youth center.

Hans and Anti Nissi were scout leaders.

Turik was a friend of Jan's who occasionally worked at the youth center as an assistant.

Upon their arrival, Katerina greeted them, thank them from the work they were about to do, and Sheila.

When the front door shot, the children were quickly gagged, stripped, restained, mutilated, and tortured.

Per the duct orders.

The re education would take eight days.

So note after that one instance of suggested cannibalism, it isn't discussed again.

I don't believe that cannibalism took place in this case.

Okay.

When Clara was told by the doctor that it was time to return to get Yakub and Andre, she entered the cottage, knelt next to her young children and told them that if they ever told anyone what happened at the cottage, she would bring them back there.

When they left, Clara took Anna back to their home and continued attempting to get her adopted through the courts.

The boys were sent with Katerina Anti Nissi and Yans.

They took the boys to an after school clubhouse where Katerina, Anti Nissi and Jans sometimes worked as group leaders.

They kept Yakub and Andre separated and continued abusing them.

Clara never visited and the boys were never allowed to see or speak to other family members.

The adoption was very much Clara's focus, and Katerina was very involved in that process.

One of the issues Anna was having in the adoption process was a lack of identification.

Katerina and Clara went in front of the courts to explain the need for Anna to be adopted, telling them having identification would make it easier for her to obtain her medical treatments.

The courts agreed.

They required Anna to go through the age ratification process in order to have a birthday to put on the documents, and this process would take months.

On September tenth, two thousand and six, Andre turned seven.

Just a month later, on October sixth Yakub turned nine.

Around this time, Anna's age ratification was completed.

She was found to be thirteen or fourteen years old.

The paperwork needed for Clara to obtain an adoption hearing was complete.

Four months into the boy's imprisonment in the clubhouse.

Something changed.

In January two thousand and seven, Clara moved her family into a home arranged and paid for by Anna's doctors.

Around the same time, Andrea was moved out of the clubhouse and into this home with his mother and Anna and Kiram the Czech Republic.

Yakub would stay with Katerina Yan's and Anti Nissi.

Occasionally, Yakub would be allowed to go to school, but he was constantly threatened against saying anything about the abuse.

Fifteen kilometers away, Andrea was being kept in a small, windowless cupboard in Clara's home.

Anna's adoption hearing took place on March twenty six, two thousand and seven, and the adoption was approved that day.

She was now Anna Moriova.

On Monday May seventh, two thousand and seven, that's when that neighbor called to file the police report.

He'd been, like I said, attempted to connect a baby monitor and intercepted the feed from Clara's house.

The recording distance of the monitor was about thirty to fifteen meters, so when the police arrived, they knew the feed had to be coming from a neighboring house.

An officer in the room recognized the song being played in the background of the video.

Turning down the noise of the video, the officers pressed cups to the walls, amplifying the sound to hear what was being played in the neighboring apartments, And so they heard the song in the video, you know, And that's how they discovered that it was the apartment.

Knocking on the front door of the home, like I said, the two sisters answered, they refused police entry, and even though they didn't have a search warrant, the police considered this situation to be exceptional, so they decided to just go in, and that's when they saw the storage cabinet with padlock on it.

The police asked Clara and Katerina to produce the key, which they refused to do, so the police began trying to remove the lock themselves.

The women pushed into the way.

A scuffle ensued between the two parties and a young girl in her pajamas came in the room yelling Mama, mama.

She began holding onto the officer's leg to hinder their effort to unlock the door.

But you know, the police ended up.

Yes, we're talking about the Czech Republic police.

Yeah, so that's sugar.

They're going to get what they need.

Yeah.

The spell that emanated from the small cellar was horrendous.

The order of urine, feces and vomit was overwhelming.

Next door, Edward was watching the scene unfold from his baby monitor.

Right when the police started knocking on the front door, the video went dark, as if someone had turned off the light in the room.

When the door was opened to search downstairs, that's when the video came back on and he could see the naked, restrained boy being lifted up by the police and having his restraints removed.

And Andrey was then taken to that waiting ambulance.

The seven year old told officers that he was kept in the cupboard under the stairs while his mother and sister lived freely throughout the house.

The other women in the home was his aunt, who visited often, Aunt Katerina.

Neither Clara nor Katerina inquired about Andrey's well being after he was rescued, Clara was arrested for child abuse of Andre and nine year old Yakub, who was located.

Later that evening, all three of her children were taken into custody at a children's home.

Initially it appeared as if the boys were adjusting, but Andre was taken to the hospital that first night after exhibiting signs of PTSD and an anxiety disorder.

Later, when bedchecks were done, Yakub was spotted sleeping in his bed, but Anna had vanished.

She had been withdrawn upon being removed from her mother's care, and she seemed to be unsettled at the shelter.

Officers searched for Anna, utilizing their resources.

People took to the news to hear suspensions from an employee at the children's shelter that she had been kidnapped.

They vocalized concerns about how fragile her health was and how was she going to handle the cold spring weather of the Czech Republic.

The room had been searched for clues, and it appeared she had left out the window.

The staff explained the window would not have been able to be opened by a child.

Anna would have needed an adult to assist her.

Yakab remained at the children's shelter alone and was mostly left to his own devices.

One day, while watching TV, he saw pictures of his brother in captivity flash across the screen with the statement Andre gave police detailing his ordeal.

Yakab watched as his brother's statement played and listened to him when Andre said that he had been abused for a long time and by more people than just his mother.

It took Yakub a little longer to be as open, but as time passed he felt comfortable telling the staff at the children's home that the same had been for him.

The marks all over their bodies found when the boys were rescued told the story.

Both had burns, scratches, and scars all over them.

It was obvious the boys had been through significant trauma that would require long term psychological care.

Evaluations would make it clear they struggled with feelings of loneliness, isolation, guilt, and abandonment.

That they had difficulty concentrating, and exhibited signs of PTSD, anxiety, and other developmental mood and sleep disorders.

Within days of their rescue, Yakub started school, attending class in person.

Andre would begin school through a homeschool program at the children's home.

Nine days after Anna disappeared, three identical envelopes arrived at the Bernau Ombudsman, the local newspaper, and the office of the Czech Republic's president.

She had put a photocopy of the same nine page handwritten letter in each envelope, dated six days earlier, signed Anna Moriova.

In the letter, she requested people and not to come looking for her, but she did have things to say about life with her family.

She said that Andre would torment and threaten her, mostly at night when no one would be around to witness his behavior.

The five year old yes.

Tea yeah, well geared yes.

When she first arrived, I was tormented by in you're eight years fucking apart.

Time go ahead, right.

She said he would lash out, targeting her and threatening her to stay quiet when he told her that she'd be taken away if she spoke up.

I can't even keep a straight face.

Threatening the older sibling.

She'll be th Yeah, a tantrum.

You mean he had a tantrum.

I know he lashed out, lashed out.

Anna defended Clara, saying she was a good mother.

According to Anna, even though he exhibited such poor behavior.

Andre was not at all abused.

He was never locked away for extended periods of time.

I guess that's why the police found him in the cellar.

Yeah hog tied?

Yeah kid and does that right?

Oh, that he's been there a while, Anna said.

Clara pleaded with the boys to treat Anna nicely.

Both Clara and Anna were fearful that Andre's behavior would compromise the ability of Clara to adopt the girl.

In the letter, Anna said that she fled the shelter only when she learned her mother could be imprisoned for nine years.

It didn't indicate where she had gone, and the only clue from the postage showed the letter was sent from a town just north of Burnout.

The President of the Czech Republic announced his disbelief that the letter was written by a teenager.

The collegists agreed it was more likely that Anna had received help from an adult to write the letter and to deliver it to the post office.

Forensic investigator searched Anna's room at the shelter, looking for clues on who helped her with her escape.

When the surfaces were swabbed, a sample of unknown DNA was found When it was tested, it was found to be a familial match to Yahn's the man who had joined in the abuse at the cottage and continued the abuse at the clubhouse.

The DNA in Anna's room belonged to his older sister, Barbara Suerlova.

Like your brother, Barboa worked at Katerina's youth center.

The amount of DNA in the room at the children's home indicated that Barboa had to have lived there for a number of days.

Though Barboa's whereabouts were unknown, authorities were certain she was with Anna.

This is so fucking weird it is.

This case is fascinating just because how weird it is.

It's just crazy anyway.

The teen's disappearance was pushed extensively throughout Czech Republic on all types of media, showing pictures of Clara with Anna on her left.

Anna is wearing glasses, her eyes downcast, and her hair in pigtail French braids.

Days passed before a staff member from Katerina's youth center phoned the police.

She reported she had seen the pictures of Anna that were being circulated.

The person next to Clara and the picture was not a thirteen year old girl named Anna it was a woman who had worked at Katerina's youth center for the last seven years.

It was Barboa Sharlova.

This is bizarre, right this yeah, this is.

An onion man.

This is now low thin skin.

Yes.

Barboa was the oldest of three children, Barboa.

We'll just call her Barbara, okay, I'm sure and massacring it.

She was the oldest of three children, being raised by an alcoholic mother and a father who chose his work as a boy's youth group leader over his family.

Barb began spending a lot of time out nature.

She preferred the solace it provided over the complications of dealing with people I kind of relate totally.

Throughout her childhood, she was treated for various neurological and cardiac conditions, including epilepsy, as well as having been diagnosed with a slow pituitary gland which inhibited her ability to age.

When Barbara was in her early twenties, she met Katerina Mariova.

The two became friends and eventually moved in together, leading Barb and her youngest brother, John's, working at Katerina's youth center in two thousand and five, with the assistance of Katerina Barbi began creating a new identity for herself as a thirteen year old girl named Anna.

The identity included a traumatic backstory for their teenage identity in the hopes of garnering compassion from people.

It could also make it more difficult to disprove.

Barb starved herself for months to be able to portray the appearance of a sickly teen, ultimately losing half her weight.

She wore children's clothes, hats, and glasses, you know, to make herself look like a teenager.

Yeah, and then in the summer of two thousand and five, Katerina introduced her to her sister Clara.

Barr played the character of Anna perfectly every day for the next two years, sharing heartbreaking stories about the deaths of her parents, how she was sold to a pedophile, ring about all of her health struggles.

Everything was made up, down to her louki me a diagnosis.

The medical documentation provided to Clara by her sister upon introducing Anna into the family were all fake.

Katerina would regularly collect Barb from Clara's house for her quote unquote, chemotherapy.

When she returned Anna, Anna would be weak with a blanket on and tubes sticking out of her.

It was all an act.

Anna's doctors never even existed.

While it was never conclusively established, it was believed that Barb's brother Yans played that role, possibly having disguised himself and produced fake credentials when he met Clara.

Medical file he had been given to Clara to read was also fake.

So all those instructions about abusing her sons, and all of that from the doctor, that was all possibly Yan's.

All the legal assistants over the course of the adoption provided by the Deputy ambudsman, the medicalists since provided by doctors who examined Anna and submitted reports to the court.

The judge who approved the adoption and gave Anna her legal identity, had all been deceived, and the judge had made her decision on the adoption based on false medical records.

The doctors who had examined Anna during the age of raification process had taken X rays and samples of her DNA.

The doctor concluding the exam had correctly determined that the individual present was between thirteen and fourteen years old.

However, their patient had not been barbed.

Katerina had duped a friend and used their teenage daughter to impersonate Anna during the assessment.

Clara was aware of this con and went along with it based on the doctor's advice.

She was told at the time that if they didn't do this, the courts would discover Anna's leukemia and the adoption would be denied right away.

Over the course of the investigation, it was discovered that all the Texan emails from Anna's doctors were found to have originated from accounts belonging to Katerina.

Every single instruction on how to abuse Yakab and Andre had come from their own aunt.

While Barb egged it on, claiming the boys were harming her, Clara insisted she was oblivious to the deceit perpetrated by her sister.

She had no idea her cancer stricken teenage daughter was a woman in her thirties.

Oh my gosh.

Her parents and her younger sister, Gabriella, condemned Katerina and came to Clara's defense.

Katerina had kept Clara in a constant state of fear when she was led to believe that if she didn't follow those orders, Anna would die.

Clara and Katerina faced abuse and torture charges as did the children's shelter employees, Turik Jan's and Anti Nissi.

Barb was still missing.

On Friday June fifteenth, about five weeks after the shelter home discovered Anna gone, Barb appeared at the Chuck Embassy in Copenhagen, having been hiding in the city for about a month.

She was with her father and two journalists upound request yes she provided id hair and saliva samples to prove her identity.

After Barbara her entourage left, the embassy contacted the authorities at the Czech Republic, after which Barbara ranged an interview with the newspaper.

During the interview, the woman admitted to enjoying her life as Anna.

She liked how people treated her after she took on the identity, and she was happier and more comfortable being Anna.

Barb preferred the way people treated her when they thought she was young.

As the interview continued, Barb disclosed the original purpose behind the ruse created by her in Katerina.

It was to supervise the children at the youth center while blending in with them.

Eventually, the women made the choice to insert the character into Clara's life and family.

Barba denied that Clara abused her sons.

She claimed that Andre had only been locked up for a short time before he was discovered, a claim which would be contradicted by Clara on the stand in court.

She said outside of when he had been found locked in that cupboard, Andre had only and disciplined one other occasion, and she had little sympathy for the seven year old, implying his treatment was deserved.

She said Andrea had beaten both her and Jakub, the seven year old, the youngest, beat his older brother and Anna.

She couldn't explain what prompted the attack, and went on to claim Andrea had enormous power.

After that interview, Barb would go on to disappear again.

In December two thousand and seven, a thirteen year old boy named Adam in Oslo, Norway approached his teacher saying he had been abused.

Believing the perpetrator was Adam's father, the teacher sent him to a children's shelter.

On December sixteenth, two thousand and seven, Adam vanished from the shelter.

Police were contacted and a nationwide search began.

Shortly after, the disappearance was splashed across the news Adam was located in the Czech Republic, safe and well with his mother.

Both Adam and his mother were shocked.

He had never attended school in Norway.

Teachers in Oslo had no idea that the thirteen year old boy they knew as Adam was actually thirty three year old barb Plova.

Yeah, oh my gosh.

Right, she just sounds like fiction, well written fiction.

This is a fucking movie.

This, Oh my god.

She had stolen his identity and had been masquerading as him for several months.

She put on weight, shaved her head, bound her breasts, and dressed in loose fitting, oversized clothing.

Some teachers thought Adam looked like a girl, but no one knows what turning thirteen will bring, so they thought it was best not to judge.

After the Adam revelation, Barber's tracked down in a town north of Oslo, where she was arrested and transported back to the Czech Republic on January fifth, two thousand and eight.

The woman was let into the police station clutching a children's book and a Teddy Bear.

Upon being booked into jail, she was charged with the abuse of Area Yakub.

The prosecution and defense each had her examined by their own experts.

The prosecution's expert claimed she was not suffering from any psychological conditions.

Instead, she was an expert at manipulating the people around her.

The defense expert disagreed.

In their eyes, Barbara's mentally ill and in need of treatment.

Due to the vast disagreement, the court ordered an independent evaluation.

The panel of eight independent psychologists and psychiatrists concluded that she was not suffering from any mental illness.

She was declared competent to stand trial alongside her brother Jan's Anti Nisi, Katerina, Clara, and Turik, who had all been accused of the abuse of children.

Clara was the only adult to have admitted to the conditions her children lived in.

She said she had been horribly manipulated and deceived into allowing her children to be mistreated.

She knew what was happening, but she kept waiting for the doctor to tell her to stop, to explain, and to be done so they could live their lives.

She always thought there would be an end.

Barb was found to have historonic personality disorder, which is accompanied by theatricality, dramatization, exaggerated expression of emotions and manipulative behavior to achieve the individual's own needs.

According to the panel of psychologists, her history of seizures had also likely been part of a disassociative state as part of her personality disorder.

She likely had never suffered from apilepsy.

For her part, Katerina said she could not sit quietly while accusations were made against Barb.

Katerina said that she had made mistakes when she introduced Clara and Barb in two thousand and five.

She had accidentally called her Anna and referred to her being younger in her explanation.

This is how Anna's identity had been developed.

Yes, Katerina had encouraged Clara to bond with Anna, but Clara allowed herself to be convinced about the character's story.

Katerina denied that Barba had participated in the abuse of the children, telling the court that someone they trusted without limit had given instruction to Clara and Katerina.

The women came up with the punishments given to the children themselves based on those instructions.

Katerina said during her time in court she never admitted to writing the emails or text messages sent by the quote unquote doctor.

She said the goal was to simply educate the boys and it got out of hand.

At this point in court, Clara stood up, shouting, accusing her sister of lying, and asked why did she do this?

She collapsed and was removed from the court.

Katerina refused to answer questions of the prosecution or the judge.

In October two thousand and eight, all defendants were found guilty.

Clara received nine years and Katerina received ten after she was found to be the initiator of the abuse.

Barbara was sentenced to fi five years, Yan Barb's brother and Antiinssi received seven years, and Jan's Turrek was sentenced to a five year suspended sentence for providing the dogcages the boys were forced to sleep in.

All defendants except Clara appealed and all were rejected.

There is speculation that Joseph Skurla was involved, who is barba Jan's father.

Joseph was very active in the boys scout group.

One of the boys involved claimed he turned it into an extremist sect, utilizing violent methods to break the boys in his group, like break them down, claiming it was in order to build them back up.

Pretending that all of it was done for spiritual purposes.

Yep, that's a cult, yeah, exactly.

Despite the similarities, he was not found to have been involved in the Kurrum case.

Andrea and Yagub continued to be cared for at the children's home.

As soon as the ban on visiting family members was lifted, the boys began spending more time with their father and grandparents.

In twenty ten, the boys were living with their grandparents full time and attending school.

All the defendants have served their terms and completed their parole.

Barb continues to be under the care of psychologists free on disability.

Katerina was released in July twenty fourteen.

Clara left prison in October twenty thirteen.

According to authority, she made significant psychological progress while incarcerated and was not considered a danger to her children or the community when she was released.

She had put a lot of effort into rebuilding her relationship with her children, and they began exchanging letters while she was still behind bars.

By the time she was released, her children, fifteen year old Yakub and thirteen year old Andre, were open to having her back in their lives, and that is.

The end that is insane.

Oh my gosh, those sentences.

What do you think of how I don't even think that they.

It was nothing nothing.

I guess you mentally fuck up a young child, like yeah, I don't know how to say it.

Medically, yeah, you know what I mean.

Mentally mentally yeah, mentally adbotage them.

You have a short window zero to five and then there's another one.

Yeah, you know, zero to twelve.

After twelve, now that's so intense under five with both Andre and Yakov.

It's just for nine years.

They should have got the whole twenty five.

I know how long it's gonna take Yakov and Andre.

To get to a baseline.

And I thought it was interesting how you had said like, oh, yeah, they looked at Clara and they were like, oh, she's not going to be a threat to her sons anymore or society.

I ain't worried about her sons.

I would be worried about how Andrea and Yakov you're gonna that's I don't know, but one day at a time, I guess with them.

I don't know how people can that abuse so young.

It's it's heartbreaking, it's sickening, and what is up with the fucking gas light in Katerina, you you that board met a friend like your sister and her nephews and then blame them for believing her.

You lie to me, lie to me, lie to me.

And then it's like, well, you kind of participated.

There is a part of me that does believe that.

At some point, Clara had a fucking epiphany that was like because you know, spirits speak softly, and she heard the voice and she was like yeah, but Katerina said, right, you know, so now we can blame Katerina or I'm gonna blame.

I'm gonna blame the fact that a doctor told me this, Like I'm thinking, like, wull I never metan.

Oh, I met one time in the car, in the car, I've never met at a professional building, went to an appointment because I let Katerina take care of all that.

It's why you got to take care of your own shit people, And you don't look up the doctor.

You don't.

That's learned helplessness.

Maybe that's her sounded like Clara was the middle child and just to be so led astray by your older sister.

What a betrayal on so deep, so many levels, so many levels, girl, so many bar how who knew your life could be completely isn't it exciting?

With a slow pituitary?

I know, I had no idea.

She faked being a little girl and a little boy and a little boy.

That's commitment, that's that's thinking and planning that she needs to be psychologic.

She is not safe for society.

She's a master manipulatory.

Thank you, Tanya.

I do not know about this story.

Yeah, it amazes me.

It was two thousand and seven.

Like you said with Clara, it's like you didn't run this on the Google.

Did we have Google in two thousand and seven?

Yes?

Google?

So thing in two thousand and seven.

Yes, I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure we had Google.

We had some form of the Internet because that's when I started law school.

Okay, see yes, yeah, so this could have been looked up and verified if you had any doubt.

So exactly.

No, I didn't start law school.

I graduated law school in two thousand and seven.

So yeah, yeah, we had it.

We had it.

So anyway, all right, my friend, Well that was a wild, crazy story.

Was you everyone for listening?

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Friend, Until next time, my dear, I love you, love you, I'll see.

You sued bye bye

M