[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back everyone to the gentleman's wrestling podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am rehearsed as always Jesse Collins.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am here alone today.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm recording this at around seven p.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: on Monday evening before Monday night raw.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if something happens on raw, I don't hear me talk about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's because I'm recording this before it happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here to talk about Brock Lesnar returning to WWE and kind of the conclusion as someone's slam last night.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what that really means for wrestling and wrestling fandom and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I spent pretty much all day today in a portion of late last night thinking about how am I going to, what do I have to say about?

[SPEAKER_00]: What this means?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do I want to write something?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do I want to record a podcast?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I honestly struggled with it for a large portion of the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've read and listened to several different people who's opinions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I value it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought Trevor Dame wrote a nice write up on it on his sub stack, which you can find on Trevor's social media platforms.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I figured I would just kind of recap.

[SPEAKER_00]: have a few kind of basic thoughts written down about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how long this episode will be, but hopefully people find this interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, Broad comes back, comes out of the end of SummerSlam.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as music heads in and everyone goes crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not surprised that WWE brought him back for a number of reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first of which is, I believe, last year, someone in a post shell press conference asked Paula Beck, you know, what was going on with Brock Lesnar and Paul basically said, oh, you know, he's off doing Brock stuff, which I don't know what that means is Brock stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that he's, you know, engaging in sex trafficking, as he's showing his dick to women on announced, those could be Brock things.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess Triple H was implying that he was, I don't know, chopping trees in Saskatchewan or wherever he lives.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, when he said that, I figured, okay, they're gonna bring Westerner back.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's obviously been put on ice because he's named in this human trafficking suit as a witness.

[SPEAKER_00]: And really, David Bixapan has pointed this out many times.

[SPEAKER_00]: Brock Lesnar is the star witness of whether or not Vidsick Man was trafficking general grants because if you read the lawsuit, the allegation is that [SPEAKER_00]: Vince was in negotiations for contract renewal with Brock Lesnar and Brock was weighing as his other career options outside of WWE and kind of as a as a play in Vince's mind to to he was offering oh you could have sex with this woman that I also have sex with which of course is human trafficking and also suggests and we'll get to these people later but people keep saying oh [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what did Brock Lesnar do wrong?

[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't commit a crime.

[SPEAKER_00]: What did he do?

[SPEAKER_00]: You can't name it anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the answer is, if you vote, if the allegations in the lawsuit are true, and there's a lot of duct text messages that have come attached to the lawsuit that show if it's just text and text involving Brock Lesnar, would seem to suggest that it is true.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Brock Lesnar was involved in soliciting sex from somebody that was being sex-traffect, which is a crime.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if Brock Lesnar were to be charged with it, I'm sure the argument would be, I didn't know this person was being sex-traffect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was just Vince McMahon's girlfriend and she was down to play.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that the matter is, there is a real serious allegation aimed at Brock Lesnar here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this idea that Brock Lesnar is just someone who Vince texted, you know, a nude photo of or something and Brock replied like normally, that's not true.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what the evidence that we have available to us seems to suggest.

[SPEAKER_00]: So on people are like, oh, I'm not sure this guy is is on the up and up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this guy should be back in WWE right now, especially as that lawsuit is ongoing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the main reason why.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I figured Brock would come back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not surprised that he's back before the lawsuit was settled.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, it seemed like they were waiting for something to happen with the lawsuit being settled.

[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, that's not the case.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Brock comes back and he gets a big reaction.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason Brock, I figure Brock was going to come back eventually was because Brock Lesnar has a lot of value to WWE as a proven money drawing star that WWE fans see as a big deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was evidence by the fact that when he came out, he got a gigantic pop from the fifty thousand or so people that were in attendance and [SPEAKER_00]: the big takeaway from Summerslam two nights of two after two nights of Summerslam and John Cena turning face again and CM Punk winning in the world title and Seth Rollins caching in on him all of that what's the takeaway Brock Lesnar's back now some of that is because the controversy that surrounds Brock Lesnar's return to WWE but it goes to sure I think of how big of a star people see at Brock Lesnar as that his return to WWE after a long way off [SPEAKER_00]: is seen as the paramount event that's going on in the company right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, John Cena turning baby face or Seth Rollins captioning on and seeing fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: That stuff pales in comparison to just Brock Lesnar coming back and presumably going to Russell.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Cody Rhodes and then probably John Cena seems to be the direction that they're suggesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Brock Lesnar is a big star when you're a big star.

[SPEAKER_00]: the company is going to make concessions to you, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen this with UFC, you know, TKO, the other company, major company that TKO operates is to have like, UFC is happy to look the other way when people like Connor McGregor and John Jones get wrapped up in legal issues, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're having accused of frankly pretty similar stuff to some of the stuff for Aquas.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there has been accused of participating in, certainly the stuff that Vince McMahon has been [SPEAKER_00]: uh, accused of participating in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, UFC has had no problem promoting those guys, putting those guys in the main events because those guys drew money for UFC and Brock Lesnar is in the same boat.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I figured, you know, I, you can go back and I don't know if I wrote this or said it, but I feel like I've been pretty consistent with thought, where I think I said this are muscle nomics.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to come a time where certainly when the lawsuit first comes out in all this, all this kind of wild stuff happening, WWE was in a really good spot from a business perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were in a boom period.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is kind of continued for the most part since the lawsuit first started.

[SPEAKER_00]: The lawsuit hasn't really had a big effect on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I figured when business starts to cool off, [SPEAKER_00]: When they need it, it feels like an extra jolt.

[SPEAKER_00]: They will look and say, what can we do to give us a little bit more juice and one of the obvious options is let's bring Brock Lesnar back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so over the last few months, we've seen disappointing ratings on both raw and SmackDown based on what we the data we get from Netflix.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, some slight cooling in terms of attendance, still doing really strong.

[SPEAKER_00]: Company still in great is doing very, is still very popular and doing very well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we saw some signs that maybe, uh, you know, they're cooling off.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously this John Cena retirement tour is going to last forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to end at the end of the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what is something they can do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's bring Brock Lesnar back in low and behold.

[SPEAKER_00]: He comes down with a ring at the end of summer slam.

[SPEAKER_00]: and shoots a major angle.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, I'm not surprised they brought him back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not surprised that the WWE audience at least life was overjoyed that he was back and was super excited to see him back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now in the moment, [SPEAKER_00]: No, because I do I believe that there were people in the audience that are like, oh my god, I can't believe this guy's back.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is so wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you also have to understand what the WWE fan is now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when a WWE fan goes to a major show like a summer slam, what do they expect to see?

[SPEAKER_00]: They expect to see a big moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's all they care about.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really care about the matches.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really care about the storylines.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just care about seeing what they would designate as a moment, like a title change.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or as we saw in the previous night, Seth wrongs caching in and stealing the title from standpoint, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They were there to witness a, what the, [SPEAKER_00]: who generally just call a moment and Brock Lesnar showing up was indeed a moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really fascinating to see the company kind of and not the company as much as the fanbase just switch into this mode where like historically wrestling was really all about [SPEAKER_00]: like match results and even during periods like the whole commandia era or the attitude era or these these kind of periods of wrestling were the creative kind of transcended what was the accepted norm.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was still largely about seeing like a big match playoff and whoever wins that match going out on on top like a champion or something like that right at Steve Austin beating Shawn Michaels and Mike Tyson getting in the ring.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, Russellmania, Fourteen, and Steve Austin wins the world title, and he walks away with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of the big moment, or you know, Hulk Hogan beat Andre the giant, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: He gave him a slam, he dropped the leg, and he beat him, and he retained his title at Russellmania, three.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like these are their moments, of course, but they're also tied directly to a match.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just not the case anymore with WWE, in terms of what their big show is built around.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're just kind of built around.

[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of thing can we do like post match that will get people excited or maybe someone runs in during a match, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I people remember last year the main event of SummerSlam was solo Sokova versus Cody Rhodes and it was a really flat [SPEAKER_00]: storyline.

[SPEAKER_00]: People didn't really care at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a total flop as that role.

[SPEAKER_00]: The match was bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the entire show, literally building up to the show was just about Roman Reigns is probably going to make a surprise appearance in a surprise and name only, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because he wasn't announced, but everyone kind of knew, oh, Roman Reigns is going to come back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's going to presumably confront solace of Koa.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was what summer sling was built around last year, and that's what happened, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Rolling Rains came out and it made its return, and people, that's what people were a member from summer sling.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't remember the boring solo solo co-coated Rhodes match.

[SPEAKER_00]: They remember Roland's music hits, and everyone going crazy, and that was the moment that was summer sling was built around.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we saw both with night one and night two.

[SPEAKER_00]: Summer Slay was built around creating this moment that kind of has nothing to do with the match.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, CM Punk wins this title against Walter and this match that I know some people really liked it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really care for it, but the crowd was not invested at all in the match really.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, you know, they popped for the title change because again, that's to them a moment, but the match itself was not that exciting to the live audience.

[SPEAKER_00]: What they were excited about was Seth Rollins has burned it down, music to hit, and he comes down and he throws his crushes aside and does the whole worked injury gimmick and [SPEAKER_00]: He comes out cash is in and with the title, and that's what those fans live for, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't give a shit about seeing Pelican falter in the kind of match that they had, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They are here for the cash in in the moment of seeing Seth Rollins screw over [SPEAKER_00]: See, I'm punkin' when the title.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're there for the moment of seeing Brock Lesnar come out and give an F-five to Cody Rhodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they're really there for.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was the per...

If you're a WWE, if you're Paul Ivego, however, came up with this creative idea, that's the perfect utilization for Brock Lesnar because [SPEAKER_00]: It was a moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was something that those fans will remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was unexpected.

[SPEAKER_00]: They did a very good job keeping that under wraps.

[SPEAKER_00]: No one really expected that Brock Lesnar was going to come out.

[SPEAKER_00]: People maybe thought the rock was going to be involved because of his prior involvement.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, people thought the rock was going to be there, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't really hints that the rock was going to be at summer slam, but WWE fans have been conditioned to believe, well, they can't just have a normal wrestling match.

[SPEAKER_00]: Someone's going to have to run out in shooting angle or come out afterwards, and the rock is like the big stars obvious person you kind of write into that spot given his history with both Cody Rhodes and John Cena.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alas, that being proper, but people expected to see something because that's what the WWE system has created and that expected, there's created that expectation.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Brock is the perfect person to slide into that and Brock comes out and then we kind of get, so the WWE fan base reaction, at least live and in the building was, it wasn't people going, oh my God, Brock was nervous here and like, you know, fifty thousand people collectively tugging their collar and wondering what was going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, they lost their shit, they went crazy, they were excited to see Brock, they were probably chanting his name, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was give all about proxism, in fact, and we're excited and shocked and amazed in all these things in a good way for proxism.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was no kind of obvious, oh man, this person's problematic.

[SPEAKER_00]: Outside of the live event, outside of the people that were actually in the building that night, there's been a little bit more, I think discussion amongst [SPEAKER_00]: The regular WWE fans, obviously not the people like me and the people that are kind of in my circle.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're obviously like, oh my god, this is horrible and other terrible thing that WWE has done.

[SPEAKER_00]: But even amongst the people that viewed WWE in a much more favorable light, there I have seen personally some pushback about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, now I think those people, a lot of those people will get over it.

[SPEAKER_00]: They'll see, they'll see an angle on raw and they'll be like, all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I can overlook this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love WWE.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what WWE is certainly counting on, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They might say, oh, there's going to be some noise on social media.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the end of the day, all those fans that say they're going to stop watching aren't going to start watching.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're still going to be into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll be excited for Brock Lesnar because we have them.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have we control, um, [SPEAKER_00]: control how they feel and they are never going to, you know, leave us because we're family, we're their childhood, we're nostalgia, we're what they, you know, engage in on social media.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are WWE is to a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is just huge cultural aspect of their entire personalities and those people are not going to stop watching, even if they you give them ample reason to stop watching, whether the product is bad or whether you're featuring sexual predators.

[SPEAKER_00]: that they will watch forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what WWE is counting on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been a sound business strategy pretty much for the last forty years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of based around like what?

[SPEAKER_00]: that the audience reaction is to Brock.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's going to get booed at buildings.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's going to get, you know, rude chance, you know, levyed at him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think any of that's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does the company think?

[SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting that obviously that Paul Ivec didn't hold any press conferences after SummerSlam over night one or night two.

[SPEAKER_00]: The general takeaway from that was because of his involvement with Donald Trump, which is a video package they aired, not once, but twice over the weekend, once on SmackDown, I believe, and once during SummerSlam.

[SPEAKER_00]: that Vivek didn't want to hit on any political questions, which if I was WWE's PR team, I would obviously want to cancel this process, because Paul Lebeck, despite the fact that he's rarely has difficult questions on the, you know, few occurrences where he's actually had difficult questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: He usually vomits all over himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Earlier that week, he had been asked about music man and he summarized Vince McMahon and the sex trafficking lawsuit as, hey, everyone makes mistakes and people have complicated relationships, which [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it's one way to describe it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was isn't how I would describe it, but he's not the most media savvy guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen that time and time again.

[SPEAKER_00]: So of course, he wasn't going to have a press conference.

[SPEAKER_00]: I assumed that that was the reason the press conferences for canceled, but obviously, I think on top of that, seeing breakfast and I come out and I recently [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they have a pretty controlled atmosphere in those press conferences, but even under a controlled atmosphere and even even if you have the most the slowest of belt mutants.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, asking questions, if you do an angle like Brock does not are coming out, the end of summer slam is a huge surprise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those people are probably going to ask about Brock Lesnar.

[SPEAKER_00]: They might ask, oh, how come Brock Lesnar came back?

[SPEAKER_00]: Was he, when he's named in that sexual sex trafficking lawsuit, and your company is currently being sued for sex trafficking?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they would ask that question, but they would ask something about Brock Lesnar, and that's just something you don't want to have, Paul LaVec answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, pressures are gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of people are calling Paula back a coward, you know for doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when is Paul Rebecca not been a coward with this kind of stuff?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, like I said, a few times he's been asked about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been confronted.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been confrontational.

[SPEAKER_00]: He buried all the dirt sheets when in France, when Lucas Shopio asked one question about the lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: He pretended he didn't had bread the lawsuit when he was asked about the lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: back at the Royal Rumble two years ago, right after the lawsuit came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's obviously not very good at this answering these kind of questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, everyone's saying, oh, he's really soft.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he can't handle any of these questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I mean, that's kind of how he is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what people expect these days.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is kind of funny that [SPEAKER_00]: He's so afraid, they're so afraid of that, that even in these very controlled environments where no credible people are left really, they're asking any questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's basically all just fans and people with maybe people with like, blogs or YouTube videos are, and some of the times it's just like outright WWE employees or people associated to closely with WWE, like, aerial home on your Sam Roberts.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they're like these people that are, you know, pseudo WWE employees that are back there, and that's basically [SPEAKER_00]: But even that is a little too much for Paul that one of those people that you brought us already might not say the right thing so.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was that's more funny to me that anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it one of the things that I was thinking about and people have said this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, in regards to what is this being for the lawsuit, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because clearly Brock was not being kept on television because he's just named as a witness in the lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does that say?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it from a legal perspective?

[SPEAKER_00]: Did something change that makes TKO lawyers feel like, oh, it's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now for Profiles and Ruby on our show because I'm sure they were, you know, pitches over the last year and a half or whatever and hell are belong.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been, um, [SPEAKER_00]: There have been those pitches for Brock's return.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are we going to do with Brock?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a storyline?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is something you might want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's been ideas, but clearly there's been something standing in the way of him returning to television and that thing has probably been the lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So did something change.

[SPEAKER_00]: In general grants, spokespeople put out a statement earlier today, basically saying, you know, this just, you know, we're upset that their WWE is once again trying to sweep these allegations under the rug and we look forward to, you know, uncovering more and more evidence that supports, you know, general grants allegations.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're, I don't know anything really about the legal system.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been playing a court runs and covered court cases before, but I'm obviously not a lawyer or an urban law school or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: One thought I just had was that, like, if your general grants lawyers, you would say, [SPEAKER_00]: Look, this company doesn't protect women.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't take women's allegations seriously.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look, Brock Lesnar is a witness to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Brock Lesnar has allegations against him in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what do they do?

[SPEAKER_00]: They brought him back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now he's working in his backstage in the locker room with all of the men and women in WWE.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that just shows that this company is not serious about these allegations.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not serious about protecting women.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a credible argument from a very credible argument, from General Grants.

[SPEAKER_00]: teams perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, this is a move that shows that they don't care about the safety of women, and they certainly don't care about general grants, allegations, and what they might mean because they brought back, brought pleasant air.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then so from legal perspective, it just makes me show that I think like TKO strategy is going to be like, [SPEAKER_00]: you know, complete denial about everything to say that, you know, everything between genel grand, it's a famous consensual, just like Vince McMahon has said, or Vince McMahon.

[SPEAKER_00]: So attorneys have said, in that broadcast there was just involved in a consensual sex arrangement, and there's nothing more to that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there obviously no longer afraid of putting Brock Lesnar on TV for legal purposes, or how it will make their legal case look.

[SPEAKER_00]: If this [SPEAKER_00]: loss of continues to go down towards a path of where we're actually in the courtroom arguing things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it shows that WWE is committed to defense during the Losers committed to totally downplaying any type of negative [SPEAKER_00]: relationship that General Grant had with Vince McMahon in by its nature, WWE or other WWE employees.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, that probably sounds like a strategy they would have had the entire time, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But for whatever reason it wasn't or at least for whatever reason [SPEAKER_00]: There is enough fear about Brock Lesnar's role in the lawsuit to keep him off of television.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now there isn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's something worth monitoring and such.

[SPEAKER_00]: I offer people say that this is, so they brought Brock back and they're just, they're paving the way for Vince McMahon to come back into the company.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a hard time [SPEAKER_00]: connecting those dots.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cause obviously, right, if we brought back Brock Lesnar who's involved in the lawsuit, he's like, you know, a minor player on the lawsuit and the grand scheme of things, we can bring friends with McMahon who's the key player in the lawsuit eventually.

[SPEAKER_00]: If the fans accept Brock Lesnar well, they'll accept to Vince McMahon.

[SPEAKER_00]: If Brock Lesnar doesn't hurt us, then certainly Vince McMahon won't hurt us, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's a real key difference between Brock Lesnar and its McMahon beyond just their rules in the lawsuit, which are obviously very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the allegations against against McMahon are far more severe than the allegations against Brock Lesnar.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what provides value to WWE as a drawing that the company can present and make money off of?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just like I said, at the start of this episode, he's, and still view him as a big star.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to draw money.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is a very useful person to have on the WWE roster.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even if he has some problems that make him less desirable, that's going to be pretty easily overlooked because the value that he brings in a business that's about star power and drawing fans and drawing attention to your product.

[SPEAKER_00]: Brock Lesnar is a huge asset.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he is someone that has, I think, a very easy path to returning to WWE as we have seen this past weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: The difference with Vince is that I don't think Vince McMahon really has any value to WWE.

[SPEAKER_00]: The WWE product and the popularity of the product is significantly up since it and McMahon was gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine that the atmosphere backstage is better without Vince McMahon.

[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine that the people that are the key decision makers in WWE like Nikon can in our Emmanuel can identify, look, [SPEAKER_00]: Vince is an important figure in the history of WWE, but at the end of the day, he was an eight year old man that was making everyone's job a lot more complicated and rosy radical.

[SPEAKER_00]: And once we got rhythm, we have a much more stable, concise, controlled system of creative and key decision making.

[SPEAKER_00]: So bring back Vince, even if it's in a subdued ambassador like role, it just doesn't hold that much value to WWE.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could if you wanted to like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, just there's this idea that like they all want to bring it back just because they can, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just because they can show that we're on touchable and that we can bring back anybody and there's nothing you guys can do about it and it doesn't matter what people allegations people have against them will bring it back just because we can.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe, but just seems so unnecessary because not only do disturbance have all these negative allegations of serious crimes that has been accused of committing and who knows how the lawsuit will eventually shake out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But fans outside of the personal, you know, Vince again's personal life have a complicated relationship with seeing Vince McMahon.

[SPEAKER_00]: The fans are, we're excited that Vince McMahon is out of power and they love Paul of ex-creative.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the general consensus amongst WWE fans.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they, I confess was Vince McMahon had lost his basketball, that he didn't make good creative decisions, that he didn't listen to the fans, that he had to stain her fans opinions, all things that have kind of been rebuilt in this Paul of Echera.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why bring this guy back?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why bring him into the mix?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why associate him with your current, two thousand and twenty five product?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why do that?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot of value there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you can, you know, you don't have to wait washer from history anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you can, you know, mention him on air and things like that again, but you don't have to bring him back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly not bring him back in any type of [SPEAKER_00]: you know, official capacity or consistent capacity.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't surprise me if it's a man came back because nothing would surprise me with this company.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't, I think the difference, the circumstances between Brock Lesnar coming back, if it's a man coming back are very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, the reaction from media members and pendits regarding [SPEAKER_00]: Brock Lesnar's return.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the media's job?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the promote transparency.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's to inform the public and there's the hold entities accountable.

[SPEAKER_00]: WWE has a lot of questions to be held accountable for bringing Brock Lesnar when the lawsuit is still ongoing.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are you keeping women safe backstage?

[SPEAKER_00]: If Brock Lesnar was the allegations in the lawsuit are that [SPEAKER_00]: Genel Grant was used as a contract negotiation employee.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was offered up as this human sex, basically prostituted out to Brock Lesnar and hopes that Brock Lesnar would resign with the company.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, like a question I would have would be like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they obviously wouldn't respond kindly to this, but if I wasn't, if Triple H did have a pressur, and I was there, which is now a total fantasy, I would ask, did Braflesner, did Braflesner offered any woman that worked for WWE to have sex with in order to get him to return, because the evidence from the lawsuit would suggest that that's something the company does.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, [SPEAKER_00]: Paul Levitt's head would explode if that question was asked to him in a press conference.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the reasons he probably didn't have the presser.

[SPEAKER_00]: And certainly one of the reasons they we did out any one that would ask a real question out of those pressers over time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's an honest question that deserves to be asked.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that Brock Lesnar was offered a woman to have sex with in order for him to come back for some time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do not believe that is the case.

[SPEAKER_00]: But based on the evidence from the lawsuit, [SPEAKER_00]: that would be a credible question to ask at a presser.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is the media's job to ask these questions and to try to get answers to these questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, most people that work in wrestling media don't understand that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a shame.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a real issue that needs professionalism [SPEAKER_00]: to be addressed, and that's just not gonna happen with the wrestling media the way it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the most I think we can ask of people, the most I've seen from people is, is key media members just being like, yeah, it's really bad that Brock Lesnar is back, which is true, that it's bad that, you know, and it's a bad look for WWE, even though, like I said, the agree, that's not really gonna matter.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I would challenge people to go a little bit further than that and say Ask these questions like how are you going to keep with it?

[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of commitment is there to make sure when you're having somebody like Profiles in your backstage that everyone feels comfortable?

[SPEAKER_00]: because if I was a woman in the locker of hell, if I was a man in the locker room, but I saw Brock Lesnar, but that person makes me uncomfortable based on what allegations have been out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not just with the general grant lawsuit, but other things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look up the Terry Ronald's story from two thousand four, where she says that Brock Lesnar exposed himself to her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And kind of they're just like a typical WWE boys will be boys kind of fashion, but it's something that I think is certainly worth revisiting in light of the lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But those are questions that the media should be asked me of WWE.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they're not, they're not doing their job.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's easy to just be like, oh, yeah, it's really controversial that they brought them back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, onto the next thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about this, this John Cena's Cody Rhodes match.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot of teeth anymore in WWE.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my issues.

[SPEAKER_00]: with Dave is that Dave, you go back and read the old observers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Dave is really, really on top of things in terms of pointing out stuff that's wrong, pointing out stuff that's incorrect and taking these companies to task for those mistakes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And doing a really good job, I think of asking questions and holding companies accountable, go back and read, you know, his coverage of the Monday night wars and WW and WWF and all these companies that have done scumbly things over time and there's no short list of [SPEAKER_00]: There's no shortage of wrestling companies, if tense coming things over over the years.

[SPEAKER_00]: and Dave really takes them to task and I just don't think he does that anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he has his teeth the way he used to.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has teeth on Twitter when he's arguing with eggs who are yelling at him about, you know, God knows what, no star ratings and maybe being the third man or whatever, but he doesn't have that same kind of analysis anymore in the Observer, which is a shame because he's one of the few people that has [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the credibility and obviously the background of the memory and historical knowledge to really take them to task.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't think he does that in nearly the same ways he used to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, Brandon, there's been a Pollock are really good at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's pretty much it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think today a lot of the arguments have been defined by [SPEAKER_00]: certain people like my former boss, Raj Giri, or Jimmy Dan, that fightful.

[SPEAKER_00]: But these other people who have jumped on and said, you know, what, oh, Brockton, do anything wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's just the fact he hasn't been charged with a crime, so we didn't do anything wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that's that checkmate losers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's been interesting to me, seeing that kind of type of the media react.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone that serious that we would take seriously, the handful of real newspapers in WWE and wrestling media haven't really taken that tact.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's been a tact that a lot of personalities and pundits and the rest looks fear have taken, which is that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Brock Lesnar, he's a witness, but he's not, you know, being charged with anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's no reason why he can't be on the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's kind of telling because it speaks to I think the really deep personal relationship that a lot of people have with WWE as lifelong fans.

[SPEAKER_00]: where they will pretty much defend anything that the company does, especially if they feel like it is being attacked by people who they view as their enemies, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So if somebody is they see somebody who they think is a big AW fan or known WWE hater, that's pointing out, well, you know, it's pretty controversial.

[SPEAKER_00]: I bring Brock Lesnar back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's his name to that sex trafficking lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's pretty bad that they bring them back.

[SPEAKER_00]: those people that have WWE fandom so deeply woven into their personalities.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they see someone who they view as their enemy, taking a shot at WWE, they are going to come out and be extremely defensive and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, well, you know, Brock Lesnar was never charged with a crime.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you've got to problem with that, you're just a pussy, which is what Raj Gary basically said.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's because these people have a really unhealthy personal relationship with WWE and it manifests itself during times like this when there's real controversy and there's real accountability and ask and there's real questions needing to be asked and real accountability need to be aimed at towards WWE and these people show you who say are which is people that have dangerous [SPEAKER_00]: I'm comfortable personal relationships with WWE and will defend the company.

[SPEAKER_00]: and pretty much all occasions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I would have, you know, my personal opinions on this are right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I would, like Brock knows there should not be back in the company.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very, very serious what he's been accused of and putting it back out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not only is a potential danger to people within the company, but almost, you know, more importantly than that, more significant than that is a message that shows, we don't care what women say.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't care what our men are accused of.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to keep doing whatever we want to do and whatever, you know, whatever happens backstage, we don't really care.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a really negative message to be sending to all of your fans, especially your female fans.

[SPEAKER_00]: But all of your fans in general, like, I can't imagine, you know, I don't have any kids, but like being a father and having daughters in, like, standing hard for, oh, Brock Lesard, and do anything wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are just pussies.

[SPEAKER_00]: That would, that would, I just, I couldn't imagine being that kind of person.

[SPEAKER_00]: But your mileage may vary on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you see these people kind of lash out and react in.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, you know, so, so my opinion on, on, on, on Brock Lesnar's return is that it's bad ideas about the company says says all the wrong things you want about WWE and it's, it's gross.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's gross, gross thing happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if someone was just, you know what I said, like what I feel like is the much more honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: support that this return would have, which is that, look, I know Brock's a controversial figure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that some people are going to be uncomfortable, but, you know, as a wrestling fan, I really enjoy his work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to see him toss Cody Rhodes around, and I think this is going to be interesting from a storyline perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't agree with that take necessarily, but I would at least respect that person, at least being open about why they are okay with Brock was not coming back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's because they enjoy seeing Brock Lesnar on a TV screen and they find him a compelling wrestler.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's at least honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's at least the ability to separate the person from the artist, the art from the artist and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But these people that instead of coming out and say that, and this show is how deep that pathological issue is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of coming out and just saying something like that, like, oh, Brock Lesnar, you know, I really like seeing Brock, it was a cool moment seeing him come out on summer slam and I'm excited to see him continue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of that, there were so many people that were just ultra defensive about [SPEAKER_00]: that Brock Lesnar didn't do anything wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: WWE didn't do anything wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the perfect company and anyone that doesn't agree with that doesn't know what they're talking about or they're just the bias A, W fan or they're just a pussy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's way too much of that going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's really telling because it shows where the loyalty lies.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not in simple, oh I'm a fan and I want to see cool stuff happen, which is a very understandable position.

[SPEAKER_00]: If not one that leads to some more deeper questions about how how how morality plays into what you consume and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Instead, it's must defend the Fed at all costs, must defend Brog, must defend whatever WWE does because I can't tolerate people attacking this thing that I view basically as an extension of myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the really alarming part.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the really shocking part.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's not shocking because right this is all predictable.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could have said these people were going to defend this move no matter what and those are the people that did it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think [SPEAKER_00]: What we're seeing is more and more time goes on, especially since the creation of AEW, which is fried up on your brains.

[SPEAKER_00]: What we're seeing is we're seeing people have such a strong allegiance to this thing that they associate so closely with themselves that they will defend it at all costs.

[SPEAKER_00]: So those are my thoughts on Brock should have a new intro or not intro, but I do like bumper for this kind of the show that will appear on some of the other voices and wrestling podcast feeds and working on on getting a new one up.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we'll be back soon with another guest.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is just something kind of open.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thinking about all day, so I wanted to get it out there and hopefully people are interested in what I had to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to thank all the support, I want to thank all the people who have continued to listen and I'll talk to you again after a while.