Well, hello, how you doing this?

Is Cliff your host of Earth Ancients, and welcome to another program.

If you're like me, I've gotten to the point where either I'm too old or I have no patience.

But I can't shop anymore, especially during Christmas time.

I used to love going to Macy's and Emporium.

And the other thing is a lot of these stores are going out of business.

So I have to say this that online gift purchasing is a wonderful invention.

Not only do I love Amazon, and a lot of people say, hey, you're hurting you the news stores and the mom and pop shops.

I don't know about that.

There's something about the convenience of ordering online, having it arrive at home, you know, wrapping it and putting it in your bag and bringing it to a party, or you know, having it under your own tree.

I love it.

I love it, and I remember when I was young you could do that with Emporium or Sears, Robock Pennies.

We even had a Mervyn's out there out here, and those stores were pretty much over now.

But I don't enjoy crowds.

I just don't enjoy crowds.

I was in San Francisco the other day at I think it was Macy's and it was the line to check out.

It's like it was like half a block.

I mean it was like thirty people.

It was insane.

They were doing a good job, though, and I want to support them.

I love Macy's.

I don't want to see him going a business, but boy, I could take one of those a day, not two or three, you know.

So anyhow, thank God for the Internet.

Who knows the way things are going, technology is growing.

You might be able to put a banner on your head, think about what you want to send someone for Christmas in and it arrives through thought process and the automatically deductive from your checking account.

So who knows something's something's going to happen.

So there you go.

Christmas time is here, and uh, we're thinking about who's coming or where you're going.

And it's a festive time of year, as it should be.

So I hope you're you know, you're moving along gracefully.

Today we're talking with Robert and Katie Shock, his wife, and this is an interesting topic because he, I should say Katie, uh has made a I should say Catherine is her name, has made what appears to be a substantial discovery in Egypt.

And you know, for months, if not years, I've been speaking about the reuse of of statuary of temples.

We know that the pyramids were not made for tombs.

They were made for energy production and other uses.

But what Katie discovered is that it looks like these temples, most notably Karnak and Bendera which is Hathor, and a number of others, were protected.

They were protected with mud bricks.

And what triggered this entire discussion, and we're going to get into it with great detail today, was that Katie discovered a series of very old photographs, turn of the century photographs that showed what the early explorers found when they found when they found and discovered Karnak.

The bottom line about this is that our history is quite askewed, and these buildings were not constructed by the pharaohs.

Very likely they were discovered by the various pharaohs and then repurposed.

Now we know this has been the theme from Doctor Karacuni when it comes to burial goods.

It was shocking for me to discover that the King Tut, the most famous gold death mask in the world, was actually made for his uncle, and Tut died at such a young age that they repurposed it all and all that beautiful gold decorations and furniture and everything that they found in that crypt was actually his uncles and that was turned over to him because he died young.

And this is the theme we're seeing with these buildings and with these temples is that they were discovered, you know, in a certain state of disrepair, somewhat damage, I would think, after thousands of years, and they likely survived the Great Holocaust, the great catastrophe that we've been talking about here on the program.

This is the very important program today because it gives us a new sense of just how old Egypt is, and this is actually getting into pre Egypt and how we should be thinking of the Pharonic period not as the high high level of evolution, but as survivors.

These people were survivors of a great catastrophe.

So today's program is the Ancient Burial of Egypt.

And my guests are doctor Robert and Katie Shock.

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Earth Ancients was a sponsor of the Cosmic Summit this past June, and there were a number of excellent presentations there, but one was a shocker to me.

And this is a talk called the Ancient and Intentional Burial of Egypt.

The guest speaker was Catherine Ulysses.

She is the wife of Robert Shock.

We call her Katie.

And I was not only amazed at this discovery, this hypothesis that was formed from this discovery, but I felt it was a significant enough presentation to feature it here on Earth Ancients.

And we have today with us, Katie and Roberts.

Roberts both with us today, and we're gonna learn a little bit about this, and I think after you hear a little bit about the details, I believe you will be as shocked and surprised as I am.

So d Robert, welcome to Earth Ancient's great to see you.

It's great to see you.

Thank you for having us.

We appreciate it.

I'm going to take you back to the very first moment you discovered these photographs.

Now you were at Karnak and you were at the museum.

Go ahead and tell us a little bit about what you were doing and what you perceived in these photographs.

Okay, So we were.

Robert is often asked to lead tours by poor organizers.

People want to travel to the ancient site.

So Robert was leading a tour and we've been.

I've been a few times.

I've had the good fortune to be to Egypt with Robert, and while he was speaking with the guests in the welcome center, just introducing the site to everyone.

There's a big diorama for those who have been to the Karnak Welcome center, and so everybody was sort of looking at this big table that shows sort of this enormous ground plan, if you would.

And but at the welcome center along the back wall, they have many archival images.

Many of those images feature the site when an enormous clearing, as they call it, an enormous clearing went on at Karnak in the late eighteen hundreds to the very early nineteen hundreds.

And I was.

Looking at some of these photos, and one of them in particular, but then all of them struck me like thunder.

One of them showed some of the pylons, those giant entryway, the rock, the megalithic entryways, and there's a few at Karnak.

But next to that image, and I'm happy to share any images with you if you'd like for inserts.

Notes to this image were enormous boulders of rock piled high up to the top and of course Robert and up to the top of the pylons almost, and I thought to myself, something to this.

We've seen a lot of ruins.

It did not look like something in ruins.

It looked like the actual pylons were the ruins and something.

These boulders, these pieces of rock had been piled up against them.

Now we had just come back from go Beckley Tepe, and we know Robert has spoke on site with doctor Schmidt examined the site and it no longer stands alone, but for a while it did as being intentionally buried.

And so here I am in Karnak looking at this image there, archival image, and I said, this reminds me.

This looks to me like somebody tried to bury and protect.

So then I went on to the next one, the next image there, which showed the ram headed you know, the gate with a ram in front of the pie.

A few of the entrances, not the long one that extends all the way to Luxor, but there's just some short ones with the ram headed sphinxes, and above it was piled enormous amounts of something dirt.

Now I grew up in Arabia, I've seen a lot of sand dunes.

Sand dunes move with time, and I got in close and I just with my camera did a close up blew out the images.

They are old, they are archival, but you can see that above the rams are a wall of mud bricks blanketing the entire site.

Are mud bricks.

Everywhere you go in Karnak are mud bricks.

And so a little seed on hypothesis.

As Robert, my good scientist's husband, I said, I made a discovery.

I think I have an idea.

I think it just it was scary at first because I, you know, it kind of made my heart flutter because I thought, oh my goodness, those perimeter walls are not walls around that's another archival image.

And again I'm happy to share the images.

They were all in my talk.

But around the edges are just thick walls of mud brick.

If the ancients wanted to build a perimeter around the site, as that wall is sometimes described as a perimeter to keep out certain population and to protect the site for maybe a religious or whatever, so I thought, but that's not a wall, it's sort of a wall by default.

So I began to hypothesize that through time the mud bricks which blanket still to this day the site, if little by little they were cleared, leaving by default a perimeter that could be the beginning of a hypothesis.

Did someone did this site go back further in time suffer a catastrophe?

Ancient people wanting to we believe solar that's my husband's research of the last fifteen years, and he has found enormous empirical data too to demonstrate that it was the sun.

But so you know, if they knew their civilization was collapsing, did they try to protect the remnants of Do these sites go back to an earlier time?

Did they try to pack it using what stone they had?

And then when you have nothing else but stone and sand, what do you do?

You make mud bricks?

And Egypt is known for its uncountable numbers of mud bricks at almost every single site.

So that I'm so sorry forgive me, I am so so sorry.

Oh dear, I am so so sorry.

Excuse me, I just unplugged the phone.

Oh okay, did you have some photographs you wanted to share or do you want me to insert them in.

The top I think, well, I wasn't prepared to do screen share, So.

I have your photos.

We'll add them to the UH to the top.

Because I have everything that you you present in your I.

Can even sense higher resolution if you would like, be happy to go through and send.

Some I want to talk about this one.

So that's how the hypothesis began, and then we plugged it in at every site.

I'm curious though, because when I see the second photo of Karnak, No, it's it's yeah with a sheep sphinx heads.

Yeah, it doesn't look like so much blocks of mud.

It looks like sand dunes.

No, when you actually go in and I did one insert where I grabbed it, but I think between PowerPoint being projected on a big screen and then photographed and uploaded to you, I think it lost its resolution.

But I can send you an image that will show that in the blow up their mud bricks and also also sand blows away with time.

Those were large blocks and mountains of mud bricks, and again they've been cleared.

But you can see in fact one image I didn't use I came upon later, right behind the rams, you can still see massive mountain of mud bricks.

Okay, so is it your hypothesis that the mud bricks were put over these temples following the catastrophe at Robert.

Okay, so this would be over nine thousand, five hundred BC.

Nine.

I think he dates according to ice core data, the end of the ice age ninety seven hundred BCE.

Yes, well, let me address that, because, yes, the end of the last I say there is a huge catastrophe ninety seven hundred BCE.

We have good dating with Beccley tep beyond it that that was when it was covered over, when it was intentionally buried, et cetera.

Here we do not have that type of dating.

We don't have radio isotope dating, feastings on the mud, bricks, et cetera.

So could there be other catastrophes since then where some of this could be involved.

I mean, right now this is a working hypothesis.

It's I don't I personally would not want to go putting precise dates on it.

It's very tantalizing.

But we don't know exactly the chronology.

We do have a situation where you have, and we have good data for this isotope data, where you have a major solar outburst at the end of the last ice age, but you also have other solar outbursts.

We'll call it smalloclastrophees.

Subsequently, so when this was done, when things were intentionally buried, when they might have been pulled out and refer furbish then buried again, et cetera.

It gets very complex, and this is part of what has to be sorted out.

But we're at the beginning of stages of this making hypothesis.

It's exciting, actually, it's very exciting, exciting.

At the end of the talk, I showed an isotope graph which measures the activity of the Sun from the end of the Ice Age to present, so like twelve thousand years of icy ice core data, and it showed massive explosions high highs lo lows at the end of the ice Age, but it showed them for a couple thousand years subsequent to the end of the ice age, So the sun remained unstable, erratic high highs lo los, high highs lo lows for like two to three thousand years before it sort of calmed down and became more quiescent.

And then of course you have the early early beginnings of the re emergence, as Robert calls it in his books, the re emergence some civilization where we now some people think is the beginning of our civilization, but it is the re emergence, of course, because gobec ley Tepe demonstrates too there was someone here at a very early period.

So I want to ask you, Robert, your hypothesis is similar.

I guess you're together, so it's the same hypothesis.

But if they were placing these protective walls of mud brick over the temples, you're assuming it's nine thousand, seven hundred BC.

What are you assuming the time period at all?

That's why I was just, yeah, I know.

But I'm just trying to think because we want to get a sense of when the Pharonic period starts.

The Old, the Middle and the Late Kingdom.

We had the rough days.

Two thousand and five hundred.

The Dynastic period, the Faronic period begins actually about middle fourth century to late fourth I'm sorry, not century millennium, middle to late millennium BCE.

So let's just think in terms of classic date, would be about thirty one hundred BC, thirty one hundred BC about thirty one hundred PCE, so just over five thousand years ago.

And that's when you have Upper Kingdom, Upper Egypt, Lower Egypt united into a dynastic structure, et cetera.

I mean, the history of dynastic Egypt is very complex unto itself, and now when we're pushing back before dynastic Egypt, before the Classic Baronic period, it gets very complex, in large part because we don't have a lot of data.

So that gets back to what Katie was just talking about, and I was mentioning that we don't at this point have a good chronological timeframe of exactly when these catastrophes and covering over might have been, when there might have been rebuilding, reapprob creation.

But the evidence is very tantalizing, and I think we're developing it better more and more with this hypothesis and then looking for evidence to either refute it or to corroborate it.

That these structures, at least some of them go back to an earlier period, before dynastic times we're being reutilized refurbished.

Could some of them go back to the end of the last Ice Age?

I think that is quite conceivable.

Why because my early work over thirty years ago, thirty five years ago now began with the Great Sphinx, and I am very confident that the core body of the Great Sphinx and structures associated with it, like the Sphinx Temple, the Valley Temple, certain structures on the causeway going up to the Coffer Pyramid go back to that early period pre and the Last Ice Age pre ninety seven hundred PCE.

So this is expanding on that Reais search.

Right, Katie, where do we see these mud bricks?

You have karnak As one place.

I have seen them at Dindera at the Hathort Temple, and I'm curious give us I mean, why would they put a wall of mud bricks around the Hathor temple and not did they clear them away?

And we're looking at that that is what we think that they were covered at one time, but through time.

The difference between Gobeckley Tepe, of course, which is our precedent, and Egypt is that that the go Beckley Tepe lay pristine, but Egypt's been lived in since the re emergence of civilization, so through time and these are megaturist sites for all of history, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly they've been cleared away.

But actually every single site we've been to shows evidence that this hypothesis can be plugged into it.

For example, the Hawara Pyramid, again just a mountain of mud bricks over megaliths, in essence protecting something older megalithic, because the one thing the sun can destroy is giant stone.

It can melt it, turn it to natural glass vitriflied glass is not stable, it's more delicate, and with time it will blow away like dust.

So we plugged it first within the context of the talk into Hawara.

Then we went to the low lying Esna and literally, and I didn't even emphasize it in the talk, but I'll emphasize it here.

When you go to Esna, it sits well below ground, as if the city has grown up around it.

And every book or mention of this issue of it being low lying comes from the statement that through time the nile flooded and brought in silt and mud and everything.

And the problem with that is the wall where you descend the staircase down.

That staircase is affixed to a mountain of mud bricks.

And I found archival images that show mud bricks up to the top of the pillars around back.

When you go it's not mud, it's mud bricks.

Somebody shaped those mud bricks and buried that temple.

Then we go to so we did Karnak Hawara Esna Dendera Elephantine Island I didn't even touch upon.

But Elephantine Island is to this day blanketed, blanketed with mud bricks.

It's as though they haven't really even started the clearing of Elephantine Island, you know, you just go there and on top of everything everywhere, and then the few areas that have been I showed one picture of Elephantine Island at the end where Robert is standing on a massive megalithic ground block.

But under that block are the broken circular pieces of pillars, as if to kind of make a foundation, lay something on top of it, and then come the mud bricks on top.

So everywhere we go we see this repeating story of what appeared to be catastrophe.

We'll say, like broken broken pieces being repositioned hastily or just repositioned even if it's not perfect, repositioning get it into positions, just like go Beckley Tepe where there's some broken pillars and the top stuck on and then the secondary walls and then overcomes the fill.

It seemed to be a recurring story such that not only did I have heart palpitations, but our Regent died, had heart palpitations.

Even I showed one picture that Robert just happened to capture.

He were just running with a tour, you know, you don't have a lot of time.

And I shared the story with him, and he too sort of thought, oh my goodness, what if we need to look with new eyes and a different perspective.

Yeah, Robert, is that photograph that you viewed at the Karnak Museum.

It looks like there was a horrific event that tumble the walls and there's piles of stones.

And that's not a simple, you know, erosion, that's an actual force of nature of some kind.

Talk about that feature.

And what you get with solar outburst and solar activity, extreme solar activity, and this has been demonstrated now or correlations that have been made with this in modern times.

Solar activity correlates with earthquake acts activity even modern day very minor.

When I say minor, major solo activity for modern times, but minor relative to what has happened through history and prehistory more or less.

The solo activity, for instance at the end of the last Ice Age.

This is correlated with earthquake activity.

This is something that is really very very new in the sciences.

People never wanted to think about this.

In fact, it was dismissed for a long time.

How could the sun cause earthquake activity.

It's not so much it's causing it, but it's triggering it.

So if you have stress is built up in the rocks, I'm a geologist, it can take a very small change in the geomagnetic parameters the essentially to trigger earthquake, just like a landslide can be triggered by a very small energy input, but it's ready to take place.

So I think we had major earthquake activity among other things at these during these catastrophes, and your observation stands well, and that's what we observe too.

We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guests today, Katie and Robert Schock, discussing their research called the Ancient Burial of Egypt, will be right back.

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My guests today are doctor Robert Schock and his wife Catherine Shock, who have made a significant discovery in Egypt.

It looks like there are pre temple burials and other sites that have been purposely protected from a catastrophe.

The theme is the ancient burial of Egypt.

Katie, do you think that these pharaohs who lived during these periods where these mud bricks are being used to cover, did they perhaps live in among these ruins as they were or did they build other ruins?

How do we place the pharaohs that we understand now during these these the buildings being covered in supportive with these mud bricks.

I mean, the mud bricks would be earlier than the Froonic period, right, that's so it's confusing.

Well, my feeling is that the greatness of these monuments to me suggests a high civilization, and when we think of the early early emergence of our civilization, I don't think that we had the capacity for this incredible, these incredible creations.

So my personal feeling is that, and I understand it's heretical, but I feel like they go back the actual buildings.

You know, Denderra and Esna and Karnak go back to a civilization before hours and it suffered a mighty catastrophe induced by the sun, which can cause calamity.

And you know, the solar explains the die off of large mammals, the rise, ocean level rise, the global plasma, petroglyphs, the vitrification on the plateau.

You know, so the sun explains so much.

But I think that the broken pieces happened at the end of the Ice Age, and who knows how long after that.

Somebody said the sun is going to remain active for a long time.

We need to protect as a testament to themselves and possibly also for posterity.

To protect what was a testament to them am to zep Tepe, a testament to the high civilization.

So that's what I think, And so placing Feronic Egypt, I'm not saying there were not great rulers who maybe sought to refurbish or The thing is, we haven't been we don't yet have the data.

We haven't gone in we would like to.

We're going to apply for it to test some of the mud bricks and find out when they were made.

Yeah, I mean there is a little bit of There are some dates that go back to the earliest Dynastic times on some of the mud brick mastabas, for example at Sakara.

I didn't include Sakara because it's a more complex, but there's evidence that the hypothesis fits Sakara as well.

I mentioned it a little bit with the Pyramid of Unas, which looks like just a rubble pile it.

You know, it's literally looks like somebody piled rubble over it to protect the oldest inscriptions.

When you go down and you see the walls, those are some of the the oldest inscriptions that Egypt has.

I mean, I really think that Egypt has the mother load of a forgotten civilization, and if they would recognize it, or if they would like to investigate that with deepest respect for what they have.

It's a continuation of something that existed there thousands of years before.

I think.

I mean, that's what we're beginning, and that's what many people have suspected.

But to prove that has been hard, because you know, incineration.

The sun can incinerate literally, so I think a lot went poof.

I think something else to keep in mind is that these structures and answer to your question, are addressing this issue.

There is evidence that they were being used, at least some of them in dynastic times.

That they were.

They have inscriptions on them from the dynastic pharaohs, and we don't deny that, we don't ignore that same some of them were reused and refurbished in Greco Roman times.

That's quite well known.

Just as analogy today twenty first century, what do we have in a place like Rome.

We have the coliseum which is almost two thousand years old, yet that's being refurbished, reused, if you would, it's been taken care of twelve thousand years from now.

Are they going to say that the Colosseum is twenty first century of our error.

Are they going to put back to the first century where it actually originates?

Yea, These things get very I think complicated trying to sort it out afterwards.

How far back do things go, especially when they've been used and reused, reappropriated.

You can literally see in many temple walls.

I'm sure you know this from going to Egypt, where pharaohs would scratch things out, if you would, our carlings out and there put their cartoons their name on things which did not originate films.

But that every time you see an example of that, it looks like pitiful little graffiti almost I mean, I'm I don't mean, I don't I only mean it like to to say what I observed.

It doesn't look like grand carvings of a new pharaoh.

Sometimes it literally looks like just the scratching, and so they'll say, here this is evidence of this pharaoh.

But it looks like a small piece of graffiti in one little area of the enormous complex and attribute a tribute that you know.

And I would agree though that the Egyptologists and others are correct.

You see the name of Rameses, who the person we call Rameses the second for instance.

Uh, yeah, it's evidence of Rameses.

Absolutely.

Yes.

That doesn't mean he necessarily.

Built the original columns our position them.

It doesn't mean here originated everything that he put his name on.

Yeah, but these guys, Ramsey is the greatest usurper, as everyone knows.

He's putting his car cartouche on everything.

Uh but you know, Robert, doesn't it make you think now that these pharaohs were survivors, they had the survivor mentality.

I just interviewed a well last year, I interviewed doctor Karakuni at UCLA.

She has written a book called Reuse of Death, and this is their I mean, the Egyptology community has known about this forever but not really talked about it, that they were massively reusing not only burial goods and trinkets, but buildings.

And obviously we know about the pyramids.

The pyramids were not tombs, they were machines of some kind.

So we really haven't kind of asked backwards, don't we?

Well, not us.

But the.

One little attribution of Kufu from graffiti and one of the relief the quote relieving chambers, right, who knows those if they're even relieving anything.

But one of the chambers above has a little you know, okra painting of Kufu, and so we attribute that monumental structure to it.

Doesn't It doesn't.

I don't think it's fair.

I don't think it makes sense.

Yes he was there, yes, or how many people have had that name through time?

I don't know fair names.

We name a son after ourselves, we name a child, so so you know it's really it's there.

I think we have to relook.

So, Robert, if we look at one of my favorite temples, which is the Hathor Temple and Dindera, we see this wall.

Is it you're thinking that they dug it out?

If the mud bricks were surrounding the temple, they dug it out, And what we see is the remains, which is this.

Wall of that wall, and that wall at that point, as Katie was explaining, it's basically a perimeter wall that was left after you remove other bricks.

And they may have actually at that point meant it to be a wall, but it was really the remains a perimeter which then you could turn into a wall if you would, especially during times of high chaos.

If I could put it that way, just like we have in the Dark Ages.

I want to use analogy.

People are familiar with the Western Dark Ages, where it was a time of people building walled castles, et cetera, just because of the turmoil that was going on at that time.

That doesn't mean that in the case of the Dender Temple the Hathur Temple, that it was necessarily walled initially.

In fact, ed Foo shows the same thing.

Yeah, cliff ed Fu has a perimeter of mud bricks, Karnak has a perimeter of mud bricks.

Comombo has a perimeter of mud bricks.

Hawara is a mountain over megaliths.

Everywhere you look, you have Esna in essence is a perimeter.

It's just the city now rests on top of that perimeter, and so around it they've just cleared around it in a smaller area.

So it's literally like like the sphinx in its own enclosure, but that enclosure is a mud brick enclosure up to the top of the staircase.

It's a staggering thought.

Literally, that staircase is a fixed to amount.

You can see it quickly in my talk because even I didn't like I went back and looked at it, I thought I should have emphasized that more.

That staircase is bolted into mud bricks.

But remember two as they were clearing the mud bricks, what did they do with the mud bricks?

In some cases they could be clearing, they end up and we're using that what is effectively a perimeter wall and then use other mud bricks to reimforce whatever.

Yeah, so some of these mud bricks themselves.

I suspect we're being used and reused and reused, just as we reuse construction materials today.

And what elt might be under Esna.

That's interesting.

Well you actually that's a good point, Katie.

You actually mentioned and you show a photo.

I think it's that Hathor temple of that temple being built on top of a very early perhaps a temple or a structure of some kinds.

So who knows how old Hathor is.

Hathor has the broken pillars underneath it.

Elephantine Island showed that similar thing where they took bases of pillars, like right behind you in your image in your background image you can see pillars and then there's a big cy cylindrical base.

I mean, was that all that's left?

And they use that and laid something on top of it, and then came all the mud bricks.

It seems to be a story that echoes and has now precedent well confirmed by archaeologist go Beckley Tepe intentional Burial Katahan Tepe intentional burial.

These are in Turkey, and I think Egypt demonstrates that as well.

We just didn't see it, the difference being we've lived in it.

Sometimes something that you've lived in you just don't see.

And I think maybe it's fair, and we would love to go in and start doing some real testing of this hypothesis.

I think it's fair and I would love to.

I mean, we apply with the deepest respect.

That's a challenge to deal with the Antiquities Department of Egypt because they have their own motivations.

Yeah I do, Yeah, Yeah, I think I'm curious.

I think Egyptology wants to shed the best light on the Pharaohs, but it's beginning to look like they were just repurposing buildings and perhaps cleaning them up for the general population.

And I have found that Abu Sabil is such an engineering feat that I'm beginning to think that it wasn't built by Ramsey's the second that he just got in there and repurposed it and put his cartoonshe on the wall, because I've been looking at it closer.

It was completely buried at one time with sand.

But it's hard to know, Robert, what do we think about that?

Oh, I don't know.

I mean I've been there a number of times.

Of course it's no longer and its original place to move and move back in the seven days.

But it's a magnificent structure.

And yes, this may tie in in part what do you have at Abu symbol?

You basically have artificial caves And that ties in with my work on the end of the last Ice Age that how do you survive a major solar outburst?

You go underground, you go into natural caves as possible, you go into artificial caves that have been created for that purpose.

And something I wanted to mention, just to put things in perspective for people, is that some of the structures may have been buried after a major catastrophe right after it.

Some of them may have been buried much later with the assumption that more catastrophes could occur.

The same with underground structures, because if you have cultural recollections and traditions, that these things can occur, you prepare in case they might occur again.

A crude analogy I often use for people and they understand it is that back in the during the days of the Cold War, how many people were preparing for a nuclear fallout.

They had literally sometimes shelters in their backyards, et cetera, et cetera.

Well, if you know that there have been major solar outbursts in the past that were absolutely catastrophic, you may well you may well want to be ready in case that occurs again.

So that but again, when we're trying to reconstruct the past, that makes it even more complicated to sort of everything out.

Can I add to his comment, because of course we see after his work with a solar event ending the Ice Age and decimating this high civilization that did exist and going underground.

You see that in You see that all the huge cities, the underground cities in the Kappadocia region of Turkey.

But you see it in Egypt as well.

You have the Valley of the Kings, the Valley of the Queens, the Valley of the nobles, the Valley I mean, there's like you know, so now do those go back and did they literally carve their existence on those walls?

I don't know.

I know it's attributed to our civilization, but was you know, you guys solve that and we can't, or does it go back for the listeners, so that we clarify because Katie just said our civilization, what she's referring to is the last five.

Thousand years versus earlier cycle of civilization that goes back to ten.

Thousand CAPE and what we are referring to as Zeptepe the first time.

So something that we've seriously been considering and we are exploring this of course along with the other work and the other hypotheses.

Are that places like the Value of the Kings where you have these huge underground networks.

Yes, there is evidence of feronic utilization dynastic utilization, but did these underground networks originate at earlier period?

Maybe there were they appropriated, used in whatever.

Yeah, maybe they were expanded during dynastic times and used during dynastic times, but that doesn't mean they necessarily originated at that time.

The same with the underground cities of Kappadocia in Turkey.

Yes they were reused and reused.

We have lots of evidence of them being reused in the last two thousand and three thousand years.

That doesn't mean that's when they originated.

Yeah, we have a Do we have an example of like say, Darren Kuru in Egypt where you go down a couple hundred feet Turkey?

Excuse me?

Yeah?

Do we have examples like that in Egypt?

Yeah?

The best examples are what we were just talking about, the Valley of the Kings, the Valley of the Queens, the Valley of the Nobles.

But they've all been reused, if we could use that term re appropriated, reappropriated, repurposed.

As you know, the classic view is tombs.

I don't see those because I've been to the value of the Kings and I don't see this.

See the same sophistication where you have air vents and water shafts and things like that, where a lot of people could survive over a good period of time.

The value of the kings is more, you know, underground burials with no real habitation, you know what I mean?

Okay, Well, one thing you have to realize, are have to remember and this is speculative, but there's a lot of suggestions that we have not fully explored the value of the kings.

And in fact, even in modern times they find new quote tombs behind walls, they find new like I forget what's called now which they've numbered all the quote tombs, but one where it was supposed to be this suns and they had all these rooms that they discovered in it that it's all the Sun's burial, et cetera.

But I don't think that we actually know the full extent because they are filled with dynastic material, They're filled with wonderful reliefs and whatnot, And archaeology is inherently destructive, So if you want to find extensions to them further, you're going to have to destroy cut through walls of Oh.

And then another place that I think of we should mention this kadi is at Sakara, the Serupium, the underground so called for the bulls, the bull tombs.

Yeah, but what was that originally?

That would make a perfect storage place, et cetera, during a major cataclysm, during a major solar outburst.

So did that originate at a much earlier period?

Was it a again reused, reappropriated And I don't think we've mentioned zeptepi yet in this discussion.

And that is what we are suggesting.

A lot goes back to.

And I mentioned zeb Tech the creators.

Yeah, ancient Egyptians themselves talked about a much earlier period, what I would call earlier cycle of civilization, which they called Septepe, which means essentially time first, and we would say the first time.

Yeah, We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guests today, doctor Robert Schock and his wife Katie, discussing the ancient burial of Egypt, will be right back with you.

I'm medding Christmas postcards about the fool.

It's even did it be in the same and the breeze is cool?

Yeah, even though we don't ben.

I guess today are doctor Robert Shock and his wife Katie.

They have made a substantial discovery in Egypt.

It looks like the temples that we consider Pharonic are much much older than we've been led to believe.

I mean, that's funny because you mentioned zep Teppe.

I'm always thinking of the King's List before zep Teppe.

That goes back.

I think I can't I remember who it was, but apparently it goes back thirty or forty thousand years.

Well, this also gets to the question, and this is very very speculative.

Now, I think we have very good evidence for what I call an earlier cycle of civilization that ends at the end of the last Ice Age.

We then go into a dark age, which Katie and I call SIDDA were solar induced dark age that lasts for about six thousand years, about six thousand years from ninety seven hundred BCE to the middle of the fourth millennium BCE, so that's about six thousand years.

Is this the survival period, Robert, what you'll call over surviving the aftermath of a destruction?

Correct, correct, correct, And the Earth itself had to recover from maybe a stripped magnetosphere maybe I means intense.

Zone destroyed which had to come back.

And the displacement of water like glaciers melting instantly, the weight of that lifting off of one tectonic plate and be redistributed as ocean level rise.

You know, I mean the Earth was in chaos.

Geologically.

We've known this for a long time that this was a very catastrophic I'm talking now geology.

Earth science, lots of volcanic activity, lots of earthquake activity, lots of flash flooding, et cetera, et cetera, high radiation levels.

Ozone layer basically destroyed.

So it was a very catastrophic time.

And so another analogy I use, and just to help the listeners think about this, you have a major solo outburst and as we mentioned, you have smaller outbursts after that, before the sun essentially comes back to a relative equilibrium.

Very analogous, and I think as a geologist, to a major earthquake and after shocks, which can continue for quite a lot.

YEA, yeah, interesting.

Fowler after shocks if you will.

Katie, you mentioned the osiren, which is the most strange.

It's very strange building.

I don't remember seeing mud bricks are is that what originally covered the asiren?

Well, the terrain there is a little bit different, but if you look above it you still see small rubble.

Now this sort of looks like go Beckley Tepe because there's a lot of rock on top of it.

But when you go around to the back to enter down the way they take you now at least you have to sort of walk around to the far side and when you go down and there is one image from the top, but I'll be happy to send the highest resolution to you.

Cliff, you see rock rubble and then you see a mountain of mud bricks on top of that entrance.

Now what has been cleared.

I couldn't find a lot of archival in images of any clearing of it.

But you can still see strata of rubble, little rock rubble all over, and when you go around to the back you can see the mud bricks next to that.

They were using what they had available, and so what they had in the Habitos area, which is what we're talking about, they did have a certain amount of and that type of thing to use.

Yeah, but I mean this really changes our perception of the Pharaohs because it shows, I keep saying this, there are survivors of this cataclysm and they don't have the same technological prowess of the earlier people.

And so the Egyptologists are confusing this I think with these earlier people.

They're saying because I just had Chris Dunne on the show and we were talking about this amazing statuary that now shows they were cut with some form of machinery, cut by hand.

I think you can see that in the museum.

You can see the gargantuan sarcopha guy, or the box or the stone box, the razor cuts, I mean literally you can.

They put them on the back wall, but you can see them.

They're there.

I think a analogy might be if we twelve thousand years from now, archaeologists of the future, we're excavating something in Western Europe and they were confusing the Greco Roman statuary of the first century BCE to the third century AD, as we would call it our common aircee, which is in beutiful.

I mean, the Romans really could carve nicely, and they were confusing that and conflating that with statuary and other technologies from say the eighth or ninth centuries more or less the Dark Ages.

Yeah, and you know, we know that in Western Europe it really went downhill technologically, very very quickly.

And that not even from anything close to the natural catastrophes we saw at the end of the Last Ice Age.

That was really more political catastrophes and famine.

And you know there's a certain Justinian plague or disease, et cetera.

Yeah, so we have a good analogies I think in Western history modern.

When I say modern, I'm thinking as a geologist the last two thousand to three thousand years for what happened twelve thousand, almost twelve thousand years.

I like his coin analogy.

He often uses the colisseum and he says, tourists today they leave their pennies and their cups and their you know, their coins, and twelve thousand years from now, somebody's going to come excavate and find, you know, a coin from our time and just that or you know, it really is, it's like hard to figure things out when twelve thousand years have.

Passed, or are to reverse it.

And I've been working, as you know, on the Sphinx for a very long time.

That's where I really started lot of last no work, Yeah, on ancient Egypt and ancient civilizations.

Yes, we have the water weathering on the Sphinx that goes back to the end of the last Ice Age, but may Egyptologists have criticized me saying, well, righted these fixing right in the Sphinx enclosure, all you find is basically dynastic objects.

Well, anyone who has been in this Sphinx enclosure knows how small it is.

It's been used and reused and reused.

It's been cleaned out numerous times, including the nineteenth, twentieth, and twentie first centuries.

How would I ever expect for something twelve thousand years old to have been left there and no one ever picked it up nowhere, never cleaned it out a small area, it's a it's a.

It sounds good if you don't know know the actual site to say, oh, but nothing's been found going back that far.

But if you actually know the site in its history, it makes no sense.

I fear someone is using a leaf blower.

You know, it's the end of October here.

And they're not picking it up.

So we're good.

Are you picking it up?

And I would see I have outside our window.

As we conclude, Robert, I want you to talk a little bit about Hawara.

It's been in the news lately.

Uh, it was scanned.

We know that Herodotus was out there, he walked in the labyrinth.

But before we talk about the labyrinth, and I'm not sure you know anything about that, but I'm curious, do you think they built a pyramid with the mud bricks?

Because what it looks like is that there's an infrastructure below it, that's megalithic stone.

Yeah, so there's definitely megalithic stone below it.

Uh, you know, did they build a pyramid?

That define that depends on how you define a pyramid.

If you want to call a pile of mud bricks a pyramid, I guess that's the pyramid.

But if you want to think in terms of the finesse and the beauty of the classic pyramids, for instance that we have on the Giza Plateau, no that's not a pyramid in the same sense.

One of the classic views is that this was a mud brick pyramid that was cased with limestone or cased with doesn't make some kind of other stone, and that since then, and we know that many of the ancient sites were pillaged in Roman times and later times in Arab times when the Arabs first came to Egypt in the seventh century.

But I have had the opportunity, with permission with Egyptolgians Egyptian Egyptologists, to climb up to the top of the Hwar Pyramid, look at it very closely, look at the entire perimeter.

If it was once case with limestone, I don't think was the case.

I would expect at least a few fragments of that limestone.

That was my next question, if you found some casing stones or some kind nothing.

Nothing.

I'm talking fragments, even if we just saw this size fragments, because they have been very thorough and worrying it.

I mean, uh, when people quarry.

Stone, stone's over over mud bricks.

This is always mud bricks over stone.

And when when you quarry stone most most I mean, you know, they don't pick up all every single little chip.

I would expect to find something if it had originally been cased.

Fine, you know, looking pyramid.

So we can call it what we want.

That's a matter of how you define a peierce.

There's definitely megalists under.

It's a mountain of mud brick that I think.

I think that's fair artificial mountain of mud mud brick.

Okay, So the other thing is a few years a thing now is like ten years ago Carmen Bolter and Klaus Danna used a scanning system to actually detect this underground labyrinth.

They called it that Herodotus has talked about that a number of other historians down to the Ages had actually been into It's very odd that Zahie Owas says, there's no such thing.

It doesn't exist, and we have this new evidence that's being now circulated around different communities.

What do you say regarding that structure?

Is it there or is it a fallacy?

No?

No, I think there's something there, and I don't think you need any really sophisticated I'm a geophysicist among things.

I have a degree in geology and geophysics, so I'm aware of the scanning and how that works.

And you can use seismic, you can use electro resistivity, you can use ground penetrain radar eyes.

But just see all the stuff down there.

There's big holes where where the sand is falling in.

I see those pictures.

Yes, you don't need anything other than just to walk the site and know what you're looking at to see, Yes, there is something under there.

It looks like a sort of like a huge egg cartoon if you will, Yes to structures underneath where you can see the crew are probably crude outlines of walls underneath, et cetera.

So Yes, the modern geophysics and analysis is wonderful, uh, and I call for more of it and hopefully excavations in the future.

This is actually something I'm trying to get permission involved with with some other colleagues as we speak.

But to come to the conclusion there's something under there, you don't need much more than to walk the site to know what you're looking at to make good observations, and sticking out of the ground in many places are huge pieces of mega carved blocks, as we see under the Hawara Pyramid.

Now there is a complication to Hawara that you, Chris, might be aware of.

I'm sorry, Cliff, Cliff, Chris, I apologize that you may be aware of.

I know so many chrises.

That's the problem that you may be aware of.

There's a canal cut through the area of the we'll call it the area of the Hawara Labyrinth.

That's a canal that's been there a couple of hundred years.

They use it to irrigate.

You know.

The canals are very common in Egypt, and that has raised the water table locally flatt For instance, I've tried to go into the entrance of the so called pyramid at Hawara.

That mud brick plan a little entryway, and there's an entry way that has megal lists on it.

You don't go very far before you hit water.

I've seen that.

Yeah, yeah, so there's a big issue to remove water or to control the water for any kind of excavations.

Ultimately, so there there are some yeah, complex practical issues with it.

But you could approach it from the other side.

They're not they're not insurmountable.

Yeah, As we conclude, do you guys, have you been in contact with any uh open minded Egyptologists on your mud brick theories hypothesis and if so, what is their reaction?

Actually, aside from that reaction that we happen to catch with our Egyptian guide, we have not heard really, we have not received any feedback from the egypt To logical community at all.

So, and actually there's one hundred and twenty five thousand views over and it's only been posted for a couple of weeks.

Of the article that you wrote, Katie or the presentation.

Cosmic Summit posted the presentation about I think maybe like seven six seven weeks ago or maybe two months ago.

So it has gotten a fair amount of attention over well over one hundred thousand, one hundred and twenty five thousand, but we have not received a lot of comments underneath it.

Almost all of them favorable, like seven hundred comments.

Almost everyone's saying, oh my goodness, yes, and but no, we've not received any academic feedback or any any comments like that.

To put this instive could put this in perspective depending And I don't know what I want to read into it or not read into it, But I have some experience in the sense of reactions from Egyptologists, and when I first present my work on the sphinx and suggesting the body of the sphinx goes back to a much earlier period, they were very very quick to react negatively and to really come after be st screening.

I mean when I say really quick, I mean within hours of my initial presentation at the Geological Society of America back in the early nineteen nineties.

The reaction has not been that.

We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and will return shortly with my guests today, doctor Robert Schock and his wife Katie discussing the ancient burial of Egypt.

Will be right back.

I think lighting the fire, fixing the tree with the star around time in the presence, and it's kind of a bit in sweet I love Humming Daggs making papers so cute, but I wish you could.

At stand.

It's not.

I guess today are doctor Robert Shock and his wife Katie.

They have made a significant discovery in Egypt of what looks to be prediluvian ruins.

You, I mean the one with you and Mark Lerner, I'm sorry you.

And Mark John Anthony West.

Yeah, Mark Laner, Mark Lanner, well, yeah, he he called me all kinds of names.

Yeah.

I thought you were referring to that debate that you had to be an academic debate.

But my point is, and that was not the initial that that quote debate at American Association for the Advastment of Science that followed the Geological Society of America presentation, which was myself and John Anthony West.

And as soon as the geological community, they loved it.

They thought it was great, loved it.

But it makes sense the Egyptologists.

My point right now is that Egyptologists were very quick to react negatively.

So I take as a very positive zione very that they're not reacting like this at the moment that.

They haven't learned of it, or you know, they've been very quiet on go Beckley Teppe.

Well, that's because they're being forced to to look back in ancient history and see a sophisticated culture.

But Robert, you're an academic, you're you have a PhD next to yourself.

Isn't it just the fact that you're learning in your you're studying, and you're you're reading from books that say this is the way it is, and you can't change that.

You find resistance to having to basically rewrite history.

You have to rewrite our history.

And if if the orthodoxy says you are not allowed to go beyond this time period, then what do you do.

You need your grant money, you need your endowments, you need your national geographic money.

You can't push against the grain.

No, no, because all the funding is customs the brain.

Now I say all the funding, all the academic institutions, et cetera, et cetera, And we're trying to change that slowly, to at least be open minded about these things, to questions of what has been dogma for so many decades or even centuries, to at least question it.

That's why we pose this as a hypothesis.

We're not saying we're absolutely right about this, but we are suggesting that the classic dogma is just that dogma, which is not what you should have in science.

Everything should be open to questioning, everything should be open to learning.

I esctually two.

When the standard story doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't think mud brick ramps makes a lot of sense when you can build with that kind of stone.

So to call it mud brick ramps, or to call it housing, or to call it perimeter walls.

If they want to build a wall, they can put a wall up.

I mean, it's doesn't And those are the classic stories, you know, like the obelisk, you know, Bery protected.

But you know, anyway, I don't mean to get off.

One of the things that I learned.

And I don't know if this will make sense to listeners to this podcast, But when I was a graduate student at Yale, I remember this so distinctly, that we would talk about, you know, the fundamentals of science, the fundamentals of knowledge, and something that what impressed me was the concept that there really are no facts.

Ultimately, everything is a hypothesis at some level, and those hypotheses can always be questioned.

So to take a very simple example, in late nineteenth early twentieth century, the concept of atoms and what an atom was composed of, you know, proton and electron, and they were little hard balls if you would, if one was spinning around the other.

We now know that's an oversimplification.

That was simply a hypothesis.

Yes, it's a very good hypothesis.

It led to a lot of discoveries and a lot of practical technology, but was still a hypothesis.

So play tectonic about I mean, everything is a hypothesis at some level.

Some are better cooperate than others, but they all should be, in the terms of science, allowed to be scrutinized and questioned if there's evidence that might suggest that we need to rethink.

I wish it was that easy, Robert, but it's not.

It's like I will I this is my belief and I'm sticking to it.

And I run the Department of Archaeology at Harvard University.

Yeah.

You can't be beginning to change are a little bit, you know.

Now he's been invited to teach the Mysteries of Archaeology, inspired by his resoarch.

At Boston at Boston College.

No No, No, US University.

Yeah, you're breaking out a geology Robert you're going to be teaching a course in archaeology.

I taught.

I taught a course.

Yeah, I taught a course called the Mysteries of Archaeology.

Wow.

But yes, they loved it, the students.

That was one of those huge b within the BU community.

The problem I was going to say, I think another way to put it is that science, ideally ideal science is one thing.

Practitioners of science are humans, and they have personalities, and they have reputation reputations to uphold.

They Uh, you know how many people want to look back and they spent their career studying something only to find that they were not correct.

How terrible.

I know that's a that's a right there.

And it's hard to present something like that, especially when you mean no disrespect to anyone.

You just go and you look and you see, and will you question.

You know, we're curious.

And when coming back from Gobecley Tepe and looking at that, it seemed, well, they seemed reasonable thoughts, and then they became a lot of reasonable thoughts, and so we tried to present them as that a whole bunch of echoes of the same message.

So, yeah, and I've always viewed my work in Katie's work.

Now that works where we are opening up the boundaries we're making Essentially there's more to study, there's more to learn, not less.

I mean my original work with the Sphinx back I can remember this to this day.

Back in the early nineteen nineties, I was thinking in terms of oh, that Egyptologists should love this because I'm not denying the old Kingdom and they were using the sphinx, they were refurbishing it, but it extends their history so much further back in time, not even more to study.

Now, everybody would go, I mean they want to boost in tourism.

If you're lucky, my god, yeah, you're looking at the motherload of a forgotten civilization.

You're gonna have every tourist in the world looking at Egypt.

I don't understand why there is so much resistance to early prehistory and possible advanced civilizations, not only in Egypt, but in Central America and Mexico.

It's just it's just it's just like they can't break their teachings or something.

It's weird.

I've been accused.

This might tie in with that.

I've been accused more than once by Egyptologists, and I don't want to name a bunch of names.

But I'm somehow with my work on the Sphinx in particular and then my extended work, that I'm stealing Egypt from the Egyptians.

He's stealing No, cue what they say, You're stealing Egypt from the Egyptian.

Because the Sphinx, it is carved out solid rock on the Giza Plateau.

Whoever was carving it, we can call them Egyptians.

They may have been an Egyptian from twelve thousand years ago, but they were still in Egypt.

They were doing their thing in Egypt.

I'm not doeing anything from these That has.

To do with the fact that they have a low self esteem, and they don't They want to have to be claiming all the discoveries and the new data, and they want to be the ones who are the head of the pack.

Basically, and again that gets into sociology and psychology the modern practitioners.

If to apply and you're doing something that fits the standard narrative, you might get an acceptance of your application.

But if if you present a high apothesis that challenges that, the odds of receiving a permission lower are much lower, and that.

Well I mean, Robert's been there before, digging around, drilling holes and stuff.

So I would think that if you guys go over there to do some research on this work, he's going to have a foot in.

Perhaps yeah, better than some, but still it's tough.

I mean, the politics of Egypt are difficult.

I do think that I'm hopeful that it's changing, yes, with like from younger Egyptologists coming into the fold and being more open minded, because I think it'll also serve as psychological truism that what you grow up with and when I say grow up, I'm talking now what you are maybe exposed to as a graduate student, et cetera, sticks with you.

So and I do think that there's more openness now to extended I'll call this extended time frame for civilization now, and I think this is very positive sort of we're seeing sort of competition or rivalry between Turkey and Egypt, apparently competition of who has the older evidence of civisations.

So you know, maybe this will start gaining Egyptians and Egyptology the politicians to recognize that it's not just Turkey where you have things from twelve thousand or so years ago.

You have in Egypt.

Egypt might have quite sophisticated things in Egypt.

I am so glad that the Egyptians finally opened this billion dollar museum.

November one apparently is going to be the full Are you going to be there next year to see it?

We actually got a sneak preview because they opened parts of it the last time.

Yeah.

Yeah, so you could go in and see it, and it is just spectacularundred.

Thousand feet of space for over a million artifacts.

I'd love to see some anomalies come out of that.

Hey, listen, we're coming to the conclusion here.

Do you think the title is going to be the Ancient and Intentional Burial of Egypt by Inner Traditions?

We can see it in a year or so.

What's going on?

Thank you for that great support.

I know a few people, but of course, publishing the books that's a whole different animal.

Yeah, we know.

We have received offers to publish this.

We are putting it out as fast as we can.

So thank you.

We are very We appreciate, we appreciate.

Before I let you go, I want you to talk about this wonderful children's book that you produced and tell our audience a little bit about.

It well, we realized or recognized that, and it actually came from somebody traveling with us.

He said, there's just nothing from my young son, and he's more into it than they are.

And so Robert had to go away on a trip and he said, write a children's book.

And I thought, of course, inspired, you know, he's the one who started this, this incredible alternative view of history, if you will.

And so I we together Robert's health and a friend of ours, Lisa Perkins, who did beautiful illustrations, we wrote a children's book and it's intend it is what we believe, the first in a series.

So it's called Adriana and the Ancient Mysteries, and the first book is The Great Sphinx.

And it what it does is it presents all we tried to weave into a story, all the mysteries that are not discussed in the general education of the monument, the old repair blocks, the water weathering.

It presents the story of Atlantis, and and there's just so much and so little.

Adriana, she, you know, she finally goes in, she sees it, and along the way she learns all of these mysteries that don't make sense according to the standard story we wrote that's been out and it actually was first published in German and Italian before English.

It is now in English.

Yes, Book two was written, but we're working on the art because it's really unconventional.

It's a higher vocabulary count, it's a higher word count, it's a higher page count, it's a higher art illustration count.

So you know, we're working on the art.

But book two is about go Beckley Tepe.

Book will be about Easter Island.

Book is written, it's just we're trying to get the art finished.

Fantastic.

They can find that book on Amazon, right.

No, we couldn't, but you can find it through our website.

There's a link there.

It is available for online sales through and independent books store.

Okay, so you're not going to Amazon route.

Okay, yeah, we just you know, Emmas, we couldn't do it.

It was your website again, where it's located.

The website is, I don't know if you need the www anymore.

Robert dot com, Robert Shock, R O B E R T S C H O C H all run together dot com.

Okay, so Roberts dot com.

And if people are interested in that.

That first book, there is a direct link on his publications page.

Go to the publications page and scroll down and you'll find it, and you also find my other yeah.

Adult, the new edition, the revised and updated, sorry, second edition of his book.

Forgott and Civization, I highly recommend, and we're interested in the Sphinx specifically.

I wrote a book with Robert Boovall called Origins of the Sphinx, but really the.

Two they're all there on that page, the two books.

To get the children's book, I want to say, we've got to tell a lot of feedback of people who love it, and including adults who I think love it.

Yeah, the illustrations actually.

For the views, not just for the children in their lives, and adults who have read it with the children in their lives, which may be nieces or nephews or grandchildren, not just their own children.

The child within.

Yeah.

Yeah, So it's a really a wonderful book.

The Adriana and the ancient mysteries, the Great Sphinx and if you want lots of detail, and my adult book for Cotten Civilization, all.

The solar outbursts, all the data surrounding his conclusion that it was the sun.

The sun is the keystone that's on that page as well, and that's.

Amazing, pretty amazing.

When you see the photographs, and they'll be posted on Facebook, go to Earth Ancients, either the international or the private page, you'll see that these mud bricks are everywhere and they're still there today.

And I don't remember if Roberts said they had carbon dated the mud bricks.

If you can even do that, you should be able to, I think, because it's organic material.

But they're, you know, obviously extremely old, as old as the perhaps the Old Kingdom of Egypt, you would think.

And there's a whole bunch of other photographs that Katie has sent me that I'm going to create used to create a gallery, so this is important.

The other thing is that the data is so compelling that they're writing a book, and that's going to be important as well, because you know, it's really becoming evident that there are survivor cultures.

I'm finding this in Maya Land, in Mexico and in Central America that the people who we consider the Maya of today are not the builders of the great cities.

Those people were killed in a horrific worldwide cataclysm.

And it's even more fascinating when you consider that many of these ruins, especially and I've spent a great deal of time in Yucatan, Mexico, those Maya ruins.

When they first discovered them in the turn of the century nineteen ten, nineteen twenty and began excavating and what they call consolidating the sites, they were devastated by water.

You don't even recognize the observatory of Chichinisa, the great El Castillo is wiped out.

It's just barely standing, as are a number of sites.

Majority of the big cities were destroyed.

So this is really it's critically important to begin understanding this, and it begins to shape our understanding of prehistory, of the world's prehistory.

Yeah, I want to mention that Earth Ancients is doing it.

Simmoth Annual Grand Egyptian Tour April twenty eighth through May tenth.

It is not to be missed.

It's a five star tour twelve days for a very very reasonable price.

Our tours are half the typical price of most Egyptian tours.

We have a cruise.

We have two and a half day cruise on the Nile.

On these five star boats, we travel in comfort air conditioning bus the food, the travel, the private visits are just fabulous.

For all the information and the itinerary, go to earth Ancients dot Com Forward slash tours get all the information and you check it out.

We're only gonna take about twenty twenty five the most, and it is fabulous.

Earth Ancients dot Com Forward slash Tours a ORR.

If that's it for this program, I want to think my guest today, Katie and Roberts, coming to us from the East coast of the United States.

As always the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster, and Faya Bravore.

You guys rock al right, take care of you well, and we'll talk to you next time.