Report to Transporter Room three.

Oh, Brian, here, I need you in Transporter Room three.

This is the Captain.

Meet me in Transporter Room three.

Join us in Transporter Room three, Captain.

We're heading for Transporter room three.

This is your favorite transport room, isn't it.

You're listening to Transporter Room three with your hosts Phil Pirello and Stak Laura Energize.

Welcome back to another installment, Transporter Room three.

Mister Scott, how are you.

I'm excited.

Phil.

It's our two hundred and seventy fifth episode.

That's a big deal.

We got to set a steak knives.

It's better than third.

Their prizes.

You'll fight it.

I just realized what my replomat is after that joke.

Oh yeah, we gotta.

We have another special guest joining us to talk about the second two parter or the second two episodes in the Dominu art from d Space nine.

Our buddy Justin Boulder.

It is I.

I have returned.

Thank you for having me back, Thank you for beaman back.

Baby.

Yeah, it just seemed like the smart play to bring Justin back to do this this whole six episode run.

But we had to go such a good chat last episode when we've talked about the first two, so might as well do the whole thing with him.

We tried to get mar talk, but he was too busy looking for his one good eye.

Wow yea.

He has a has a line in this about I would give my one good eye for some living uh go or something like that.

Yeah, so we're gonna so episode.

So this is the sixth, sixth episode arc of the beginning of season six.

We're on the third and fourth episodes Sons and Daughters and Behind the Lines, which are pretty different episodes, I guess, And yet Kira is almost like the main thematic sort of through line between these two would I would say her story continues on a certain trajectory.

We take a little side journey with with the Son of mag the Family of Wharf, and Sons and Daughters, and.

I like, well starting with Sons of Daughters before we get into what we liked and what we loved.

I'm curious, what was your first time see it?

Guys, I'm gonna have to keep up with what I started last time and talk about Fox twenty four in Charleston, South Carolina, ten thirty on a set night.

Because I'm a cool kid, continuing to watch the episodes and not having any idea when you would hear and now the conclusion, and just being in there all both weeks that this was something that was continuing, and indeed that it almost seemed like we were settling into this just being the show now you don't need to hear to be continued or anything else like that.

It's yeah.

To have that kind of arc storytelling at a time when I was getting into it was just really cool.

Yeah, yeah, same for me.

I think I was probably back home in New York at this point and just watching them every week and really digging it, Like it was like, Wow, this is this is like what Star Trek can really do.

But what about you, Phil, because you kind of missed.

Yeah.

I have no recollection of seeing this when it originally aired, but I remember vividly watching it during my rewatch in twenty thirteen, twenty twelve, twenty thirteen and just being like completely gobsmacked by how awesome this episode.

It was like, Oh, this is Star Trek cleanon, like this is what it should be like.

And I was telling you guys later on our text chain earlier, excuse me, this is basically Rio Bravo in Space right where Steven Barre confirmed that in the Star Trek d S nine companion.

But it's so it's so well done, and it brings a as honest as you can get resolution to wharfs less than outstanding parenting, Yes, strange relationship with his son, and they address it in a way that feels earned without going too over the top with it or undercutting either character.

Like it's a very honest, as honest as they can get between the two, and it's a fun, riveting episode like this ragtag group of cleanons.

Yeah, yeah, it's funny you mentioned Star Trek Klingon because that was one of the potential spin offs that they used to talk about back in the day, right.

Yeah, I believe that's what Dorn wanted to do.

Yeah, and I think maybe Ron Moore was behind something as well.

I can't remember, but like, like it could have been cool to do that, but I guess you can see why they wouldn't.

But you've got a whole cast doing.

The makeup, right, you know, every day, and you know you probably you throw one or two aliens non Klingons in there, maybe a human just to offset things a bit.

But like that would be a that would be a lot would be.

So the episode basically is is Wharf is on Martok's chip, uh and they they've It kind of picks up where the last episode brock and left off, where we see that they they've they've gone in and rescued Cisco in the gang.

Dax is like she's totally fine now, right, Like she was laying in that cave all injured and stuff, and now she and Wolf were like ready to like get down.

But uh, she recovers seemingly well.

Yeah, she seems fine.

Yeah, sometimes you got to break a few bones, sou But it kind of and I was thinking that because the opening scene is with Wharf and Dax there are reunited, and I was thinking about what you were saying last week, Phil about how originally Rocks and Shoals ended.

There was a deleted scene I guess, or yes, did they actually shoot it?

I can't write.

Yeah, okay, but Wharf picking them up on the planet, right, yeah?

So but yeah, so basically some they are dropped off at Regular one or whatever the space station is called, and and then it becomes a just a Wharf Mark Talk episode.

From that point on, we do go we do go back to Kira on on Deep Sea Line as well for the BT story, but uh Wharf is reunited with his son, Alexander Richenko, who we haven't seen, I guess since I don't remember know where his last episode would have been in in Next Gen?

Was it the one where he came from the future to kill him to keep It might have been that one, right, so and we so we kind of and justin as you pointed out before we were recording, we have seen his photo uh Woarlf took it out in way of the Warrior, I guess, And so we know he has his photo with Alexander, so he at least remembers he has a son.

But it sounds like that's about as much parenting as he's done since we since we left our Alexander, which is so messed up.

Right, Yeah, I was.

I was paying I guess, closer attention to the dialogue between them than I did the last time I was watching this, But it almost seemed like Worf didn't know that he was no longer living under with his grandparents.

Yeah, when did you leave them?

It's like, dude, you don't know where you're saying?

Come on, Yeah, right, like I know there's a war on, but still come on like well, I mean like like you know, Grandpa Grandpa Cisco like comes to and hangs out of deep space night and stuff at times, right like like you can't you can't do send a subspace communication to Russia.

I mean con uh did he I think he says it's been five years since he last sore Alexander.

Is that did he say that?

Or am I misremembering?

I think he said we last spoke some time ago.

Okay, it's how he says it.

Okay, all right, so bad parenting.

He basically sent him back I miss Well, I guess we don't really know the timing of it.

But he sent him back to a little with his parents on Earth and and he kind of dropped out.

And it's whereas our next generation Wharf was trying to do the right thing to be a dad.

It's interesting that Deep says nine is like, you know what, that's not Wharf?

Like what they don't They kind of like they just accept that that's the character in a way, and like they try to he does try the men men fences uh with his son in this episode, and they kind of do by the end.

But it's like there's no getting back like what they missed or and there's no there's no saying Wharf didn't fuck up, because he did.

He's been he's been an irresponsible asshole.

Really well, how do you guys feel about the aging up of Alexander?

Yeah, I was just reading about that and they, as one of the writers says in the Companion book, we never really said canonically how fast clean on children age?

Yeah, and it doesn't bother me.

It's a bit of a but it's either you have a very young kid who can only shoot X amount of hours on the show that needs more time, or you have an adult actor who can go toe to toe and deliver on the drama that needs to be done here, Like, it didn't bother me.

Yeah, I mean Brian Bonsell played him before, and I don't know if anyone else remembers Stanley Ties, but Brian Bonsel was the aged a recipient of like the youngest Keaton character.

So yes, he had it coming.

That's the biggest kid.

It's just the way it goes, right, But it's a it's a it's funny the way they they they're like, okay, so he's WARF's kid, but he's everything war isn't also, right, like he's got more k lar and than Wharf, although I.

Don't know, I'm not sure klar, I'm not sure sense of humor.

But he's not good at doing klingon stuff, right, he was never into it, and uh, and I was getting.

Right, yes, yes, exactly right.

You know, so.

Like, oh, you wanted me to be a klingon him to go get myself killed in battle just so you you notice me, right, But when right, Yeah, So that's kind of what's going on, right he uh, when he's training, he's trying to train with the batlet or whatever WARF's Wharf's getting like pissed off at him because he's not good at it, like as if you should just be able to like instantaneously know how to use a batlith And it was giving me like real bad flashbacks to my grandfather trying to teach me how to play baseball, like where it was like, you know, he lasted about ten minutes.

My grandfather just threw through his baseball, went down and went back in the house.

He was like done.

I was like, you know, I was like six years old.

What you expect me to suddenly be throwing fastballs, like I felt bad for Alexander though it's like.

What I also like that it was like Wharfe was doing using the gem Hdar weapon us, yes, weapon, like yeah, and you do feel bad for him like the kids, like as my dad would say, God gave him, God gave him hands, but not the instructions, you know, And that's just it sucks that the kid cannot find his literal physical station in life.

But what he does have, he does have more than a shred of honor, and he's got that sense of self sacrifice.

And it's not at the in the end of the episode to be like, see, Dad, I'm willing to risk my life to have you actually pay attention to me and see my value.

It's more I gotta save my people.

But then I get locked in this room right in the process.

Oh Alexander, Yeah.

Right, exactly.

He's still the ship.

I was gonna say, I think there's still a good bit of character development left from what you see of him in this episode, and then you were cordially invited later.

He feels like a character that's not fully baked yet.

But then that's exactly what he would be at this stage, you know, right, that kind of adolescence and you're like, I'm gonna figure myself out.

Maybe I'll be a Klingon.

It's it's almost a reverse of Wharf in some ways, you know, raised by humans and then joins their service.

Alexander a little bit more raised by humans in one ultra klingon father, and then he wants to find out a little bit more about the other side of his heritage.

So play for laughs a lot of the time, but there's there's some poignancy in that.

I think, agree.

Absolutely, No, yeah, that's a good point.

He uh yeah he he So, justin you pointed out before we're according they at one point, Wharf says that he's the ships they've accepted him, but as the ship's clown is is that what it is is the ship's clown, right?

Yeah?

And but the thing that the thing that I liked about that, like Mark Talk is okay with Mark.

He's talking to Mark Talk when they say that, and Mark Talk sees it as a step forward.

Wharf Wharf was has always been so rigid that he can't like he can't get past that kind of I mean, I guess he accepts it by the end sort of, but like he Warf is in some ways like the worst Klingon because he's so he's so attached the like the textbook idea of a Klingon, right, yes, and like this episode does such a great job of showing us like the diversity of types of Klingons, right, Like the one guy who's giving Alexander at a hard time in the mess hall, like he's not like Marktuck even says, I would have probably broken a few bones.

You know, he wasn't gonna kill him.

It's like almost like he's just kind of yeah, like he's just it's like it's a little bit of an initiation ritual to to kind of ras him and give him a hard time, but they're all kind of having fun.

It's like it's reminds me of like when Riker what did the exchange program?

And he wind up on the Klingon ship, right, and it's like you realize, like, oh, the Klingons are laughing, and like the Klingon women are like checking Rik around, and it's like it's like you know and so and then when you when you're with Warf, he's always so serious, you know, and you know and the obviously they sanded some of those edges off over time with him, but he that that is warp He's and the way I've always viewed it is like he's he grew up always wanting to be a Klingon and he bought into this idea of a Klingon and it kind of helped form what he is, which is like the you know, the the Apex clingon in some ways, you.

Know, which alienates him from a lot of the others.

And that to your point, this is a great shades of the scene and redemption that they pick up work after leaving Starfleet and all these clingons from two different sides are just enjoying being cling on together.

And He's like, why are we eating and fighting and laughing and drinking with these people?

Yeah, there are enemies and the Duras sisters are all work tries to be like his brother, i e.

Klingon, but he's not.

And then I think your points really well taken.

Yes, in trying so hard to be cling On, he achieves like the the idea, but is not down with the reality of these people really are.

Yeah, I think he's like wanted he wants to go run like a level six diagnostic or something while they're all in the.

Bar, right, like he's worried.

He's worried about stuff like that.

You know, it's like go hang out with Jordy, who by the way, LaVar Burton directed the second episode that we're talking.

A great episode too.

Yeah.

So uh, then over on Deep says time we've got oh.

I also wanted to say there was one line that kind of broke my heart in this, which was just it was just when Alexander said, are you just going to send me away again?

Uh?

To his dad.

I was just like, ah, man, you know, because it's true.

Right, but he even you know, like his initial like he he could never even stick stick with Klar either, right, like before Kylar died, like he could, Warf couldn't.

Like correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't didn't.

Wasn't there the possibility that they could have been a couple, but like Warf wasn't up for it.

Or my misremembering Wharf they actually Warf is a one and done because they're in the holiday for some fun times and then he wants to to get married and she's like, we're not doing that.

And then in between since the father happens, and now that he's discommendated.

When she comes back, he's like, you don't understand the situation changed, we can't get married, and she's like, it doesn't matter to me, but you know that's why they're not.

Right right right, right right, Okay, yes that's right, So I take that back.

But then, whether you guys think about the cure stuff in this episode.

Kira is cold blooded and amazing in both of these You don't we're talking about shaving off some of the edges, but Kiras are sharpened, I think during this arc, and I think it's the first time that you really get to see who she was back in the day, Like it's coming up in the next episode, but just when she finds herself and she finds her purpose again, Like what a fantastic character as start as being single minded and trying to achieve her goal and really determined in a deep Base nine rewatch, Kira to me has become one of my more favorite characters.

Actually, I'm glad to get to watch these again.

Yeah, she's she's awesome, right and you see, go ahead.

I was just gonna say with you know, because Zel comes back to the station, right to Kott's daughter, and so you see sort of the different sides of her, of Kira as well, right, But she's so compassionate and she loves Ziel is sort of almost like a little sister in a way, and then at the same time hates Zeale's father with such a passion that you it's it would be easy for Kia to just always be that sharp edge, right, and that would be a trap, I think for the writers to fall into that, and for Nana visitor to fall into that.

But but she's.

Not, you know, she's there's a lot more going on.

Uh And Zil serves a function I guess in that capacity, which is that we're able to see that also, like they, I lost track of how many times speaking of recasting and aging characters up, I lost track of how many times l was recast.

But this is her final incarnation, I believe in more in.

More ways than one.

Yes, yes, how about that scene where she uh cut he is so slimy.

He sends her that he sends her address for the part of the party that they it's supposed to go to, and she's almost she's into it for a second.

What am yes, you know, like and then I love that the hammer comes down, like I cannot like with this guy, and she like from here on out, Kira is go after yourself to kut you know.

And speaking of zi'all, I I really like how much the show has us investing in this what lesser people call a side character.

No, but she becomes.

Such a tragic figure in this whole plot line.

And I just wanted to share a quote from iras Stephen Barr about how they chose to depict her in this episode.

Quote, we set out in this arc to make her the pure innocent, to make the audience invest emotion in that innocence.

And then David Weddle says we had to get her to the point where her death would matter, and that's I mean, it's in and not only her death, but the effect it has on Kira that later calcifies her hatred for the Kardashians, especially Ducat, Like this is some tragic Shakespearean shit that goes down with the character.

And to get this level of drama six seasons.

In, yeah, come on, Like yeah, maybe all because of everything that has come before, it actually carries that weight.

So when you're ready for the character to be activated, for lack of a better term.

You can just go with it, right, I will say, you know, the all rest in peace future.

But thinking about the title is something I try to do with every Star Trek episode.

It's more recent occurrence, right, but like all right, sons and Daughters is the title?

How does that play into the episode?

And in this one I was really struck by if Martalk is a surrogate father for Wharf, right, and me stick with me for just a second.

We all know that direct son of Martalk is an household, so mart Talk has failings as a father, right, right, So of course he would have the wisdom to give to Wharf because of his failings and kind of trying to make it right.

Then Wharf tries to do the same with Alexander.

And the reason this actually popped into my head is because thinking of the daughter portion of sons and Daughters.

Zey all struck me in this episode is being very manipulative in a Ducot kind of way, like I wrote down, when she is talking to Kira, I just really wanted just to spend some time together, and then she says, but I guess that's impossible, and just kind of lets the dot hang in the air, I'm like, damn, that's some Ducot shit, Like, I guess we can't be peaceful together because I really wanted you to like my dad, and and then also saying things like I really want to make it on my own.

But then you later find out that she by herself reached out to the art director of the Kardassian Institute.

I'm not saying zi All is villainous, but when it comes to traits that kids have based off of their parents, you know, And then thinking about the title, and I'm like, oh, damn, zi All is very ducat and how she manipulates things, which you know everybody does it, but for quote unquote good reasons.

I think that he's doing it for the right reasons.

But it comes off as like, yeah, that's something I can see your father doing too interesting.

Yeah, that's like that's great real me neither.

Yeah, Yeah, for sucuse, even her coming back to the station, even that that very act, there's sort of you know, she has to know what that's going to mean for Kira, right in the position that it puts Cura between her and her dad.

And yeah, so you know, one thing I was thinking about too with in terms of Kurra and Ducatt was they Kura Ducott have had so many great episodes to the episode with ziel Is introduced, right, they have to they have to go on a mission to free these but Bajoran prisoners or whatever, right, and they they had so many great stories and interactions.

But Dacott had was set up really to be Cisco's chief adversary if you go back to emissary, right, and it ends with that with them facing off in the in the final episode of the of the show.

But it always felt to me like maybe they should have let that be more of a just a Kura Ducat thing in the end, Like it just that I'm not sure that uh, I'm not sure Cisco Ducott ever took off in the way Kira Dukatt took off.

And I don't know why that is, but just the.

I'd say, in my opinion, at least, it's more of an intimate relationship with Kira, which is weird to say, but you know, retconning whatever.

You know, the Ducat has had an interest in that family for a while for different reasons, but also you know, he's literally the Nazi who exterminated your people and you were one of the people who fought against him, So it's already personal where I've always thought that Cisco is more of an idea and their their journeys mirror each other.

Even now, is Ducot's like the supreme whatever of Cardassia and Cisco's getting promoted.

You see Ducott still reaching for all of that power and not quite having a reason to do so, even in this episode when he's like schmoozing with or I'm sorry.

The next one we're he's schmoozing with the Bajorans and giving a replicator gift, but Cisco's fighting against the more power he's given because he'd rather be effective, changed something.

Yeah, I'm getting a lot from watching these again.

It's been a minute since I've watched this.

This is pretty awesome.

J I, you should just take over, man.

Did you guys that would make me like to cut?

Did you guys know this?

The so Kira and and do Cood have a scene where they're arguing and she says something.

Like oh yeah.

He's like, I might be late for the party or I might be late for dinner, and she's like, oh yeah.

The busy life of an interstellar deskpot And then it just it's a weird cut, right, And I guess there was more to that scene that got that got asked, but it was like it stood out to me as a It stood out to me as an uncharacteristically odd cut for an episode of nineteen ninety Star Trek.

They usually did the better job of hiding when something right.

And I don't know, like I read it last night on Memory Off.

I think it was there's some damar stuff after that, like he comes in the room or something, and and they cut all that stuff.

But it was a little jumpy at that point.

But uh, okay, so should we move to the next one?

Then good?

Any final thoughts on on where I was sorry Phil.

How did two of you feel about wharf in Alexander's final scene?

I would have liked, I liked.

I like it a lot.

I would say I loved it.

I think what is working against me is knowing that I'm going to see him one more time before we're never going.

To see him again, and so it feels like a false start.

I'm like, Okay, there's a lot of TV guys, yeah, like where's where's the relationship with Drex and you know, Alexander joining versus Drex being an actual member of the family.

How does Currilla feel about it?

Like, you know, there's a there's a lot there to mine.

So yeah, about this scene was moving and it was a badass ceremony, but I just wish we'd have gotten more.

I was gonna was gonna I agree.

I was going to ask you guys how many times we saw him again?

Because I knew he comes back for the wedding, but I wasn't sure if maybe he popped up again.

But I guess, I guess not.

Yeah, they were in that episode.

They refer to him as being transferred to another ship.

Okay, I'm gonna say it out loud just in case I'm right that you tang because it always is a weird I'll play around with that and song sometimes.

But yeah, he never comes back.

Okay.

I wonder what happened to him in the expanded thick world of the books.

He's probably probably probably had a few adventures in there at least.

Okay, so, uh, what do you think of the final scene, philt.

I really admired the writing, I really admired the actor.

I think it's one of Michael Dorn's best scenes and it does.

It sucks that we have limited screen time with him coming up in the future episodes, and it extra sucks when what happens happens at the same time.

Like there's just I could have watched a mini arc about them fighting this word.

I'm glad they revisited with once again into the Breach, which is a very, very great episode of d S nine.

Like there's almost like, yeah, I would have watched an entire show and entire mini arc just devoted to Wharf and Alexander getting their shit together.

Right, I'm glad they brought him back for the wedding at least that, yeah.

Which is also another great episode.

I love that episode.

Oh my god, is that the same one where they have the bachelor party?

Yeah?

Yeah, the two bachelorette party as well, right, yeah, corecked.

Is that also the Sorilla episode that all is they packed that all into one episode.

Wow, that's a great episode.

God, yeah so that.

I mean that's like the kind of cohesive universe building stuff too.

The fact that like, yeah, well of course Alexander is going to come back for the wedding, Like that makes sense.

You know, the Enterprise crew, why weren't they at WARF's wedding.

Well, they're fighting in a war.

They're in a different sector.

You know, it wasn't it wasn't sweeps, right exactly.

Okay, So now the next one, next episode is the Wharf Light.

I think we see Warf on the view screen at one point, but it's more about, Yeah, what you alluded to justin, which is Cisco gets a promotion.

Basically, can you guys explain to me what the promotion was.

I was a little vague on it was he taking the job of the other person who.

Was described I believe, so.

Yes, okay, So what was that they're promoted to.

They were promoted to to head up an actual task force.

And then Cisco it's not a rank, but it's a it's a position, so veteran, So I understand it's not so much that he was promoted to like flee captain, commodore, admiral.

It's more like this is the higher up as a stepping stone into an admiral sea or like the fleet cap and kind of got it.

Okay, all right, so and they kind.

Of oh, that's a great explanation.

That was better than the episode did.

Yes, they kind of alluded to it pre and I think the first episode of the season where the Cisco got an office.

Also right like they were kind of setting it up.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's Cisco's thing, that is that he there's this cool mission, whether is it the r I'm going to miss cluster?

Yeah, the our goals, the dominion.

They have so many cool things that need to be blown up.

Right.

They have this crazy sensor array and they're hidden in the Argolis cluster that's been giving them the upper hand.

And we don't even get to see the mission because that's not really what the episode's about.

But I have to admit I was a little bummed out that we didn't get to see that mission, especially because dax is Dax is the you know, acting captain I guess of the Defiant for the mission because Cisco has to stay back.

She comes back there successful and it's like the book.

With the phaser power cell.

Yeah great, well that's so that's how the episode starts, right, the power the phaser power cell.

They have this they've developed this little ceremony where they after a big battle, they bring the emptied bat I guess it was a battery into the.

Ward room or whatever it is.

And they or the mess and they then the captain makes a little speech and that's that felt like a very real because we know the deep State.

Nine guys are all the writers are all into military history and stuff, right, certainly Ron Moore and Weddell and Thompson and those guys are.

I think it felt to me like the kind of thing that must come from I don't know, but I'm assuming it comes from real military history, like that's something that's gone on on naval vessels or something too.

But you rightly felt it's like a nice book end as well.

But we get at the kind of the beginning and they sort of near the end as well, and he gets to go looking on forlornly because he's not he's not the center of the action anymore.

Right, And it's it's such a great to give a guy a desk job in the middle of a war, right that he put the front he's the reason why there's a front line for it, you know, like he's a big reason why as a brilliant chuch.

I just love that great callback to In the first episode of season three, which the Search Part one, Cisco's coming back from Earth and he talks about walking around starkly headquarters and seeing the admirals and be like, that's gonna be me one day, And DApp says Rizon never thought that was you.

You were somebody who has to be in the dick of things.

And now I like that.

One of my favorite quotes is when the gods want to punish us the worst, they give us what we want the most.

Cisco is now on his way to becoming that kind of person and he's like, nah, this isn't me right.

I completely forgot about that line, and I shouldn't have, because I repurposed it in a script I wrote once that's a great episode, by the way, the search it is, Yeah, and I mentioned Admiral Ross really quickly and won the last episode.

Yeah, Like, I mean for my money, and I'm a big Machea fan, Come at me, I don't care, like one of the best ones, right, but like Ross is the one admiral that she can't beat for me.

One, what a great character and then the complexity they're gonna saddle him with later on, and then two.

I love when a good character actor gets a different turn to be more versatile.

And the first time I saw Ross, I'm like that's dude from Family Matters who was dating on Rachel?

So like the same the same actor who has like a sing along with Steve rkle to feelings and an accordion is giving Captain Cisco orders and like the most serious Deep Space nine episodes you've ever said.

It's great.

Who was he?

Who was he dating on Family Matters?

Right?

So Talma Hopkins Carol character Rachel?

Yeah, wow, Okay, I never really watched Family Matters.

So Carl Winslow's boss that, Yeah, that was Admiral Ross.

Yeah, I'm a little.

Older than you guys.

I think I was probably like trying to have a social life or something that.

He chose wisely.

I'm not saying I wasn't successful, but wow, that's crazy.

Also, So we did we recently, I don't know, last month or a couple months ago, we did a section thirty one rewatch for the podcast, and I think Ross shows up in one of those episodes.

I think he still had the red admiral's uniform at that point, even though everyone else was wearing the movie style uniform.

But they didn't have the budget yet, I guess, right, And I was so glad to see that he's got now in season six, he's got the proper movie style admiral's uniform.

You know.

So that would always bug me when it's like, what, you're the admiral, you should get the new uniform before.

Anyone, you know.

So I actually wrote that down because I'm like, Okay, he's almost there, but his belt is not quite right yet.

He had like a regular like square.

Belt buckle, and it's not that that big federation that they were around their waist going right.

Right, Yeah, so what you know when they mentioned that Dax would would be the acting captain for a second, I was like, oh, is that the chain of command?

And I was like it should be Wharf.

But then I was like, well, oh actually, but of course WARF's off with Martok.

Then I guess it is Dax, right, but.

You're not gonna it's not gonna be all Brian right, he's got stuff he needs to be dealing with the subspace couplers or something right when everything's blowing up around him.

I also know this, like Nog I'd kind of forgotten, like nagging the chief kind of have a little friendship, right, the apprentice mentor type thing that goes on which is cute because it's the you know, the chief, petty officer or whatever the chief is, uh, kind of like giving the kid the ins and outs of what goes on with the officers too, you know, it's not just him teaching him how to fix stuff.

But it's also like, yeah, you know, she he's the captain, you know you call a captain, even though she's not captain.

And I also like that Nog has that engineering ability because he takes after his dad.

Right back that off later, and I'm sorry, Treachery Faith in the Great River is like a reverse of that relationship, where Nog's like, you may be, you know, knowledgeable about star fleeting rules and regulations, but let me show you how to get things done behind the scenes.

If you need to like another episode so much set, I.

Guess I have to do a complete rewatch because I'm I'm hazy.

I remember that title.

I don't remember which episode it is, just so, what's the.

Name of it again, Treachery Faith in the Great River.

So it's the b story where Cisco's off the station but needs something done and Nog gets authority from O'Brien to just do a series of trades and it gets increasingly ridiculous, but it all.

Right, yeah, getting back the baseball, Yes, in the desk, in the desk.

Ah, right, I remember that, that's right?

Okay, Well even in this one, he's he somehow came by some some some sorry and brandy right like you know, he's like, well, you forget, I'm a I'm in I'm in Starfleet, but I'm also a Ferrangi still, you know, so uh And also credit to Next Generation Future Imperfect, where there was a Frangi sitting at I think the con Yeah, right, and that seems so out there at the time, Frangi and Starfleet, but here we are, you know, So what do you guys think about what was going on on the station?

Some some troubling developments going on involving Odo.

I hate this subplot so much because I despise the female change line.

I love her.

That's the point though, right.

I know that's the point.

And because it's a very effective villain, and it's played with that all.

Oh, don't you see she's manipulating you?

Right, she is, and she isn't because they don't think they're beast yep right, and obviously that's a great villain.

Oh, man gets under my skin, like not like kai Win under my skin, because that like like neck veins bulging like Ford, I'd get so angry at her bullshit.

I didn't have to fast forward the show, but before we unpack the stuff at Damar and the plot with his pad, which is a great plot by the way, I just want to get into some behind the scenes of this episode.

It's it was the most difficult of the six episode run to put together.

As Ron Moore says, by the time they got around to shooting Rocks and Shawls, Renee at Cheveria was working on this episode and that's where we all got really confused and I received and Bear points out poor Renee.

He was really behind the eight ball on that one, going around to each of us asking what are you guys doing?

What are you doing?

What are you doing?

He was suffering and it was a very painful experience, but ultimately the show worked.

It's amazing that it turned out as good as it did, because usually when shows have that painful of a birth, they usually show it on screen.

Yeah, and also, wasn't one of them shot out of sequence with sons and daughters shot before Rocks.

And Shoals yes, because of the location demands of Rocks and Shoals.

Okay, so that also I think cast some headaches, right, and maybe that's the real reason though they put Dax in the rock bed.

In Rocks and Shoals, they were just like, that's one character we don't have to keep track of for an episode.

You know, she's just sick over here, you know.

So but yeah, the Damar, so we're Damar is drunk right, Like the more we will get to know tomorrow he is well because eventually, when it's Damar kind of running things on the Cardassian side, he's always drinking, right, So we start to see it here and he he loses his pad.

I mean, it's it has this plan on it.

Apparently the pads easily accessible.

They didn't even have a pin pin number on it or anything, you know.

Very at war time, they're getting worried because the the wormhole wormhole is mined and they're running out of Ketracel white.

So we saw hints of this already in Rocks and Shoals, where just because the ship had crashed on the planet that they were running out of Ketraseel.

But it sounds like it's starting to become a concern in the in the Alpha quadrant because they can't they can't get their supply.

So Damar has this plan which is brilliant but horrific, which is to poison the last dose of ketrasell so that the the gem Headar don't go without the ketra sool.

They presumably will go insane and kill everyone.

Uh, you know, Founder or Warta, it doesn't matter.

But the thing I was thinking, and it's, you know, obviously it's it's horrific, but like what does that mean for the war effort?

Though?

Also, like you don't have your foot soldiers anymore.

Right, how are you gonna hold the lines at all?

Yeah, you give a call to the Sona and they'll take care of it for you.

Yeah, the Sona.

I don't think your name dropped in this episode.

I don't think so.

I was.

I was referring more to insurrection, don't they never nobody say that?

Yeah, they get referenced at some point in the show.

Right, Yeah they do, I think so.

Yeah, Yeah that'd be smart.

Yeah, those idiots would partner.

With Yeah, but of course they would be the people who figure out how to produce it.

You know.

The fight is the fight it's awesome.

It takes up all the space of the screen, but I found myself really drawn to all of the background acting that happens in the fight.

So when you're watching Kira give the commentary, it's great, but everything from Damar approaches Quark gives them a drink.

Damar turns around three jim Hitar, the two Kardassians with him flank him, and then they get into a fight that in the midst of all that, you see Quark run from the bar, but then you see that he's come around the front.

And when they come back from the opening, morn is in the background of Quark's like, uh, he's he's comforting Impella, the Daubo girl, who's like crying because of all the ship that she just saw.

It was I love this show so much, the attention to detail in the background.

But it's all it's all sort of shot from Rom and Kira's point of view up on the second level, right, so it's kind of a wide shot and you can't hear what they're talking about, right, And so it must have been a fun, fun day for the cat for all those all those background players who probably spend so much time on that set, right, I never knew that Dabbo girl had a name.

What's her name?

Impella So?

And the reason I know that is because if there is an episode of Strike that I've watched more than any other, it is definitely in the Pale moon Light and Odo name drops her because rith On Tolar wants to dance with her.

Also, the best behind the scenes of any Star Trek, in my opinion, is so the actress Kathy Dubono ends up helping the police solve, like I think, a murder mystery.

There's a great article about it that came out last year.

But she is like in the mall in Burbank and this killer approaches her and tries to lure her into a trap essentially, and rather than be dumb and get in his car and go with him, he drives to his place with one of the stunt coordinators from DS nine and the dude gets terrified that she's there with a man, and then everything is okay.

But he later helps the police crack the case and get this guy arrested, and it's like an episode of Date Lot.

Wow does that happen?

I think this had to happen.

I think in the late nineties, like when the show is actually being filmed.

This guy's going around and like, hey, I'm a Capsting agent, and so it sets off her red flags.

But the dateline episode, I think is maybe three or four years old.

I'll try and find it and send it to you guys.

It's good, Scott, Yeah, it's definitely yeah.

So but yeah, so there's a big fight between the Kardassians and the gem Hidar because of the because Ram left the pad with the gem Hdar purposely so they would see it.

So there's tensions between those factions.

Also, Rom is now part of the Resistance, which I didn't realize and I could and of course you know, of course the Resistance is basically Odo, Kira, Rom, and Jake and I guess sort of Quark by the end of this episode.

But I was thinking, like you would think that Kira would have some like Bajoran lieutenants who she's worked with over the years, Like you would think the would be a little bit more to the resistance that that Jake's not like one of the main guys.

Like that's true, Kira does have a lot of friends.

Yes, that's.

You guys, want some more behind the scenes trivia.

Yep, always I thrive on this ship.

So the original little B story this episode was going to take a beat from a nineteen thirty Howard Hawks film called The Dawn Patrol.

Uh.

It was that of the themes they were to explore that the movie did was that of a relected commander being forced to send untrained troops into the field and the moral turmoil it causes him.

However, when Bear read Echeveria's script with that storyline, he felt that it didn't work because the B story had become too important and felt like it should be the A story.

So they dropped it and they replaced it with a B story involving Decks where she's given the command of the Defiant and discovers that she loves combat more than she loves doing what she does, and she gets into it way too far, according to Echeveria, and becomes patent.

Okay, wow, that's the B story, that's the BA story and there and were like they were unhappy with that, and I think maybe because it's more dominating than.

Yeah, it feels like a six episode arc right there, actually.

Right right, and Bear said, we reinvented it yet again, making it a much smaller, quieter, little story where you're just asked to put yourself into Cisco's shoes and see how hard it must be for him to have to sit and send his friends to war.

Which is great, But what's terrible is what the original version of Odo's storyline was going to be.

Well, wait, before you get to that, can I just say real quick, yeah, what I said earlier about we don't get to see the space battle in this one, which you know was awesome and kick ass, but like it's like it all it's like you, it's Cisco's story, it's not Dax's story, right, So, like, so we're experiencing the same thing Cisco is, which is like he wishes he was there in the middle of the battle, and we do as well, right, you know, so you.

Want to see that, but as Justin was saying, you really do, like yeah, yeah, it would have been a really cool yeah.

So anyway, so Odo, the original version of the Odo story.

Yeah, I think if this story happened, I think we would have turned our backs on Odo forever.

I mean I feel close to doing that right now.

We have.

In the first draft, Odo becomes so involved with the female change Lane that he allows his need for order to consume and blind him.

Ultimately, he tries to end the resistance movement and he arrests ram Oh.

And the reason why this was cut is because neither Bear nor Acta Varria were happy with this turn for Odo's character, so they decided to alter the scripts that Odo commits a sin of omission, not a sin of commission.

Out of Odo's carelessness and his obsession with the shape Shifter, he doesn't deliver on what he's supposed to do, and when confronted with it, he realizes that he doesn't really care that much.

It doesn't yeah, which is rough, which is really like.

I'm not too sure I like that either.

That Odo got too wrapped literally too wrapped up in you know, the bucket.

But uh right, I don't.

I don't.

I did not one hundred percent buy that.

So right, so the the I'm sorry, Phil, did I cut you off?

The So the female shape Shifter, who my wife always used to call Odo's mother when we when we watched Steep, says nine, like back when it.

First that's a white lotus.

Yeah right, because it gains it gets to a place right like yeah, uh she shows up on the station.

She's been trapped in the Alpha quadrant and because of the you can't get through the wormhole.

But it's it's mind and so she's kind of working her whiles on Odo a bit and and so a little bit just to just to illustrate what you're reading about their phil there's too busy linking.

And meanwhile they Morom and Kira have this plan to disable the deflector array because there's a because of there's a big plan to destroy the minds, and Odo just doesn't do his part of the plan, but he's too busy with the with the Founder, and so Rom does get arrested, which is like the episode ends with, like you said, it's almost like Odo kind of doesn't care like it and I don't remember where things go from here too clearly, like is he being mind controlled or affected by the Founder in some way?

I think he's just thinking with his little Odo No, no, I see, I was gonna.

I was like, I'm not going to defend the female shape shifter on the podcast, but I'm about to now I don't.

I don't feel like it's like that, and so.

Ah, this is hard.

Yes, the villain right the antagonist of the story, like she has a place in this math equation, but like think about her as a as an entity.

She's very honest.

She says at one point, I don't know what the episode, but like that Odo means more to them than the entire alpha quadrant.

And I you know, I'm not a changeling.

I don't know, but there are things that happen in the episode that I'm like, Okay, there's no way she doesn't know what's going on.

And then there is even a scene where she is shown to be there.

I think it's coming up, and Odo's like, nah, that doesn't really bother me.

So at some point she does understand that there is an active resistance movement against everything that's happening.

There's a hint that she drops in this episode where she says, I'm content to leave the running of the war to the Vorda, and while you then later see her taking more of an active role, like so many times about the course of the show, it really is shown that if Odo came back, they don't really care about anything else.

And then with the backstory of how they were persecuted, and then what you control can't hurt you.

Yes, the antagonist.

But I do think that they are proceeding from a place of truth for her, for people and Odo and how they do things, And just because it's not our way, does it necessarily make it villainous.

That sounds really horrible to say.

I can hear everything coming out of my mouth right now, but like, but what I'm I think, what I'm trying to say is there is such a purity of we are all that matters, and we really do truly care about each other.

No changeling is ever harmed another, Like we made you a solid, we didn't kill you, because being as solid is worse.

Like that's how much we believe in ourselves and how we don't want to lose one of our own.

So I don't think I don't think it's a sexual thing.

I think it's more they exist in ways that we can't possibly understand, and the allure of being able to exist outside of being trapped into who you aren't or following norms that aren't your inherent norms.

I can't imagine, even as a solid, the freedom and the allure of that kind of freedom for somebody who's been told up until the point that they meet their people that you know, do the Cardassian net tric.

We're gonna we're gonna teest you a little bit.

More, say you are, and like, looking at it that way, I've always been like, oh do I wish you were a little bit more on our side right now?

And I have some problems with you, but like, damn if I can tell you that you're quote unquote wrong right And now I'm going to back up before I start, you know, defending the dominion at a time I really don't need to.

Be doing that.

But I will say that their ships are really cool.

Let's talk.

Let's talk about what happens to the planet Cardassia thanks to the dominion.

No, but you're I mean you're yeah, those are your points are well taken.

And I would say, and then if you want to take it back in a step in a way that that philosophy of the Founders, whatever you want to call it, it's almost like the ultimate Federation philosophy, right, which is that you should be able to live your truth, you know, like you should be like your true self or whatever.

So it's almost like, well, if the if the Starfleet can preach that, then why can't the Founders preach their own version of that.

So but but there is the there is something about the way Rene Barjona plays the final scenes, which does I mean, I felt, gave me the feeling like, Oh, it's it's open ended as to what as to whether or not he's really just like having an epiphany or if he is under some kind of control, you know, if the founder.

Is controlling him or not.

Do they wind up forgive the terminology, but do they wind up boning like like they do like in solid form they do?

Right?

Yeah, Okay, because because that scenms awkward af but there's going to be a scene I think coming up in one of the next two.

Okay, it's the aftermath, and there's like a tiny bit of pillow talk.

Is education, and that's a scene that we'll get through it.

And then after that I won.

And bearing in mind that up until this point my wife was always calling calling her Odo's mother.

So, uh but and Phil, you mentioned the White Lotus before.

Uh, I'm assuming that was in regards to the Uh.

Well, I won't say actually because I don't in case people haven't watched White Lotus yet, I don't want to spoil it.

But uh, but there was another White Lotus aspect to this, which is when the founder was talking about, uh, well, Odo is trying to figure out, well, what are your individual being?

Or you are you one entity?

And she's like, it's you know, when you're I'm gonna when I'm a drop in the ocean, when we're a drop in the ocean where the ocean and then when the drop comes out of the ocean.

How she puts it more eloquently than I can.

But that's like that.

I think that's Buddhist philosophy a little bit.

And I and I only know that because they talk about it on the White Lotus when they're getting into Buddhism and stuff, and it's the same terminology that's used, which is really interesting.

But it gets back to what you're saying to justin about just like the perception and the bigger the bigger universe out there, what what things can be or not be?

You know.

So one of my favorite moments in this episode was when Kira is marching to Odo's quarters to confront him because he because he got ram arrested, and she the way she pounds the control panel that opens his door, she like smashes it twice surprised that the prop so as that prop didn't break, like you know, it's just some buttons glued to the wall, right, She's something else, no visitor that she's got a lot to chew on in these episodes.

She does an amazing job this season.

She has a lot of meaty stuff for him.

How about also there was.

Wyoon doesn't have too much to do in these, but there's a moment where when the founder kind of shows up, everyone's a little bit surprised.

Oh, the founder's on the station and she walks into the meeting, the Council of l Ron meeting whatever, and it's wyouon and Damar and oda, and she's like tomorrow not to Mark Ducott.

And Ducott is trying, like trying to treat the Founder as an equal in some ways, like oh, we're both the rulers of our respective races and and she's like she just cuts him off.

And he's you know, he's trying to do political trying to do like diplomatic stuff with her too, like you know, we know we will work together, blah blah blah.

And she just cuts them off and she's like, why the fuck have you not defused the bombs in the wormhole.

Yet like and Wyoun, who is so such a kiss ass, right, He's like, I agree, this is intolerable, and like, I just it's such a great Jeffrey comes moment, Like he's like the way he can just turn on the dime, you know, He's like, like, you know what, what is up with those minds?

Ducott as if Wyoon's not part of this the plan to try to diffuse them as well, you know, so.

Really good stuff.

To back up a bit to the female change.

Line, Odo's mother lover.

Yeah, I hope your wife has this clarified future reference.

The writers did not intend for Odo and her to have the relationship come off sexual in nature, but I'm just gonna read these quotes.

And yet Bear later conceded in the Deep Space nine companion, it makes a certain amount of sense that they had a sexual tension, But LaVar Burden in the same companion is very blunt.

Those are love scenes.

She was seducing him, straight up, plain and simple.

Well, that's it's funny, right, And that's it's a little bit instructive about the process, right, Because LeVar shows up and is doing prep with the actors or whatever, and they have a script.

I don't think Ira was on IRA's not on the on the set every day watching them ship.

He's he's busy writing upstairs.

You know, so right.

I blieme Reneo Bergeonoa you know Respecto too.

Favorite character he and Garrick, But it's his reaction that makes it seem sexual.

Every time she's like, I'll just touch your hands and maintain a neutral expression, and he's.

Like, oh, is I know your favorite character?

He and Garrick are yeah, okay, yeah, nice, Yeah, I love him.

But you could have you could have undersold it just a little bit more.

And he does that kind of like hands together in jazz hands.

When he does it two weeks like a wax on, he's like a oh, it's not a video podcast.

Also, what is the.

Like all the stuff he has in his quarters to assume the shape of It's like it's like, all right, well you have the tree.

That's cool, but then like what there's like a jungle.

Gym and there's that hare.

Yeah, it's like I know, like you know, the pops guys and the set direct decorators they had to like go out and just find some stuff the room.

It's like maybe Odin he doesn't need.

He does need the female changeling just to help him progress past the jungle gym stage of being a shape shifter.

I think you know so all right, I.

Want an episode about his downtime jungle gym before we go real quick.

Uh and Sons and Daughters.

There was a deleted scene the about Uh Damars when Ducat and Cure they clock Damar's contempt for the word for jorance years when he talks.

There was supposed to be a scene where they're kind of like commenting on his behavior and he kind of giggle and they kind of giggle when he does this thing.

There's supposed to be a more to that thing with with the with his sneer and uh, what's the actor's name?

He plays Smart Biggs Biggs, I call him.

I call him mister Roxane Biggs Dawson.

Them they were married, they.

Weren't married, that's right.

He comments at a con that was a sourced on Memory Alpha about how he was so excited about doing that scene and he tried to do like a Jack Nicholson, tried to channel Jack Nicholson with a sneer and have it work in the makeup and he was bummed that it was cut because it was such an interesting.

That's the stuff that was cut in that moment we mentioned earlier, I think, right, yeah, yeah, And if you.

Could read the full scene on Memory Alpha they have they have a link to the original script.

He is he is good at sneering, that's for sure.

Yeah, yeah, all right, any final thoughts before you go to the Replemat I think.

The episodes are kick ass.

I can't wait for the final two.

Yeah.

Yeah, I except to say, from like a business perspective, I can't help but think because of Scott the line about to cut, like, I agree with one, I feel like there are like Bay or Snyder cut esque versions of this entire arc that I would pay good money to go see any theater.

I'm just saying i'd buy it an HD in a second, Yeah, I.

Paid real money.

As McCoy says exactly.

It's funny that he would use that expression considering that he doesn't need or use money for the moment.

All right, On that note, let's head let's head to the Replemat.

Let's do it.

I'm going to the replmant to get something to eat.

So who wants to go first, well, just for us for those unfamiliar, the replemat is we pick something non Star Trek related that we are watching, reading, listening to and recommend it to folks.

Yeah, I'll go first.

Can we share?

Can we share a replemant?

Phil, since we we did something together recently?

Yeah, of course, Scott, it's it's our podcast.

We can do it.

Ever, But I don't know you had you had a certain thing you wanted to talk about.

I'm not going to share my because I figured that would be yours.

I'm not going to share that, Okay.

I recently acquired the four K of Long Kiss good Night.

Oh yeah from a Yeah.

Yes, the movie's transfer has been crap like it was just like an up The Blu ray is just an upscan of the DVD, which was not a very good transfer.

Because Long at good Night Shane Black's four million dollars selling spec screenplay with Gina Davis as an anesiac assassin and part time mom.

Uh we can Brianna play her kid in that?

No?

No?

Yeah?

Well, one of the IGN's former models of Babology now defunct Babology was her former kid in that, Yvonnzi.

Oh really Okay?

Who was best known as Rachel on e Er, Doctor Green's daughter.

Oh okay, right, arguably.

Best now Anyway, I was so so excited.

Lancascad Night is one of my favorite movies.

I watch it almost every Christmas, and I even watch it outside of Christmas, but it's become a Christmas movie these last four years, and I laugh every time at Samuel L.

Jackson's performance.

It's my favorite SAMUELA.

Jackson performance.

Finally, on four K, the picture looks amazing.

It looks like it's being projected on the screener I saw on in October of ninety six.

The special features are a little soft.

They have some retrospective interviews with the original makeup artist, who has a fascinating tale about how the silicon mold he made for the stunt performance to wear, especially Geena Davis's character Charlie Baltimore, how that somehow led to being actually implemented in medicine.

Oh interesting, very very cool special feature and adult yvon Zema is also interviewed about her time on the movie and what the auditioned with and it's it's pretty cool stories.

But yeah, I would recommend.

I'd recommend that four K if.

You can swain it so so cool.

My copy is literally four days away.

I was like, oh wow, the fact that you just gave that review I personalized.

Okay, fire it up, baby, it's you know, I don't I don't really collect physical media anymore, which I know is probably stupid of me.

But how are the extra features in general these days?

Because obviously like that used to be such an industry, but now when there's like lower sell through rate.

On these things, usually like it's kind of it depends on the title mostly and the third part of this distribute it arrow arrow and are the ones I use a lot.

They rarely disappoint.

Okay, they have some great special features.

Sometimes they do like really deep dives, like like the Cell four K has you know, new interviews.

It has a different cut of the movie and a different in a different aspect ratio.

It's some do more deep dives than others.

I've told you about this before, Scott.

You got to check out Keno Larber.

Yes, yes, they have this great special edition of the Invasion of the Body Snatches remake.

Right, that's right, Yeah, I think you liked it to me.

Yeah, it is the thirteen bucks I've ever spent.

Why do the studios outsource the stuff.

Like this just because they deeper for them to just get a licensing fee and have someone else to do.

All the work, right, Yeah, Okay, it's weird.

How they've broken their own.

That's another podcast.

That's a whole other.

Yeah, yeah, justin you want to go next?

You know, I'm just going to go back to Keno Laarber because Phil said that.

Originally I was going to talk about I did a for all Man Kind rewatch that I'm wrapping up now.

But chat the Nightstalker, you're talking about a deal that you can get from a physical media provider.

Keno Larber has an amazing Cold Check set where almost episode has two separate commentaries.

Wow, and commentaries are like my jam because you can watch, you can watch again, then you can watch again again.

But such a great series.

The remaster has done really well.

But just like Phil was saying, where it looks the way it was projected, I'm a big fan of the film grain that you can see.

And there's there's something too like the sound when you watch a really good transfer remaster whatever of an old show where they bring it into modern day, but they don't overdo it, which is.

A big pet peeve of mine.

Yeah, there are times in the Colchak transfers that you can still hear the tape almost in the soundtrack, where you're like, all right, the tape must have been stretched out a little bit because you can hear it like go high pitch, low pitch for a second and then backup to high pitch.

It's those imperfect perfections that I think really make a exactly like it's It's great, So i'd recommend cold Shack.

I'm done with the series proper, and I had to look around for it, but they also have the original tune in series, The night Stalker and the other one, so I've got those two to wrap up and then i'll be done.

But Colchak has been going on sale left and right.

They've had a lot of sales recently, So if you see it, pick it up.

It's a good show if you haven't seen it, and I'm assuming if you've seen it you you like it enough to watch it again.

Is it just the one season?

Yeah, it was the two movies and then one season.

Did they have any archival interviews with What's his Butt Darren McGavin, Yeah, Well, McGavin.

But who was what's the guy's name, Dan, the creator of the show.

Oh gosh, I'm.

Blanking on it.

But the person who shows up the most indie sets that I've been watching is David Chase from Sopranos, because he worked on the show too, and so hearing him as David Chase talk about how you know, David Chase did things back on Colchak, but then analyzing it from the perspective of a much more accomplished version of himself now it's been really really interesting.

Yeah, So I'm like, just in education perspective coupled with that kind of entertainment has been fantastic to deep dive back into.

Yeah, I'd like to check that out.

I've never I've seen Chak Culchak here or there.

I've never seen the all all of them.

It was a big influence on the on the X Files, right, like yeah, yeah, so.

Even it's it's just a good TV Yeah, and then they did a remake of it.

Whenever that was about that it was not.

Frank spot it was it.

It was was it Spotan It's.

Really yeah, it didn't.

Vince Gilligan wrote on it too.

It didn't turn out.

Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, uh mine real quick.

Was just Phil and I went to see Glengarry Glenn Ross on Broadway a few weeks ago.

Yeah.

Phil had an extra ticket he was kind enough to share with me, and so we saw it when it was still in previews.

Very cool.

Yeah, but it was great.

It was Uh it's uh Karen Coulkin playing Roma.

Right for the al Pacino role.

The al pacina role.

Yeah, Odin Kirk is the shell Shelley, the machine, the Levine, the Jack Lemon roll uh uh.

Michael McKeon is also in it.

And Bill Burr isn't it.

So it was it was really good.

Yeah, it was great, like yeah, like it does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We were like, oh wow, we're at intermission already, you know.

Uh.

But it was you know, as someone who's seen the movie a bunch of times, I've never seen a stage production of it, it was it was interesting to see.

I'm so used to certain actors interpretations of the characters, and.

It was it was great.

Uh.

And Kulkin is like, I know he's he's gotten dissed on a little bit in recent months, like during his Oscar campaign and stuff, But I don't know I think he's the real giving the performance.

That's just a version of his personality.

No, this is a this is the guy's a legit active shut up.

Yeah, it was good.

So, like tickets apparently were selling kind of going for a lot.

But if you're if you're in New York, you want to check stub Hub or something.

Uh, it's it's well worth it.

And they're going for a couple of more months, I think.

And then and then there was a rumor that they were gonna they're going to recast it with an all female version.

Yeah, which I mean, I'll go see that too.

Yeah.

I got in on the tickets like the day after they went on sale, so I got them for a decent rate.

Now they're going for five, six, seven, eight hundred bucks.

Yeah, because I checked the day after we went.

I checked to see how much the tickets were in like basically the section we sat in, and I think they were it was like seven hundred bucks for one ticket.

So I don't know.

Maybe I shouldn't be recommending this on the podcast, but who the hell can afford that?

I thought?

Wise man can hear profit in the wind?

I'm glad I got in when we did if they were that expensive when I first saw it, I just pop in the movie again and imagine other people in the.

Roles real quick.

Also, justin for all mankind, you mentioned how did hold up on Rewatch?

Because my impression is I feel like I've watched every season only once, but I feel like I like the earlier seasons more.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, I think that's the trick.

You know, it happens with almost every show.

But it's still one of my, if honestly not my favorite show on television right now.

Doesn't mean that I can't see the faults.

You know, Critics are our friends.

The first two seasons for me are absolute gold, except for in season two, And that's all I need to say for anyone who's ever watched that show, and you know what I'm talking about.

But like, getting into season three and four was still good.

It's just I have a philosophy about TV.

When you're watching it or any story, if you stop looking at it as a story and you really just imagine yourself as like an anthropologist peaking in on life, I feel like you get more enjoyment out of it.

And seasons one and two, like, Wow, that's amazing TV.

Seasons three and four, like, oh, it's interesting watching these people go about their lives.

Right, It's still a great show, well made.

But I mean, you know, because you said the early.

Season it still holds up.

It's just you know, a little bit more of a TV show than Inexperience after season two in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree, and it the very nature of the show is it basically jumps ahead a decade every season, right, so so some characters kind of get left behind and then you introduce to new characters.

So then that's always you know, that's an adjustment as well, and some don't maybe don't hit as well as some of the earlier ones, or he missed certain characters.

So yeah, okay, should we move on to our poor red shirts?

Let's do it.

Red Shirt.

Attention, all crew, please don your dress uniforms and prepare the photon torpedo coffins.

It's time for the Red Shirt of the week.

Do you want to introduce this one?

Yeah?

Just you flagged this one.

This is a good one.

Yeah, thank you.

So let's go back to the bar fight that we talked about in Sons and Daughters.

Basically the bar fight that happens in a brief millisecond of a shot you see a gem Hidar as Baine in the Dark Knight Rises, or if your old school comics and the Nightfall arc in DC just lifts this Kardassian up over his head and like brings him down one in a near perfect replica of Bain breaking Batman's back.

And while my original choice was any Jim Hidar who dies in a bar fight with an ally can't go to whatever, their version of Founder of Heaven is like, my god, that Kardassian.

Really, I can't think of a worse death in Star Trek Beau.

That is that just viscerally physical and like, holy shit, he was not holding back, Like I feel like they got in a fight at some point before the bar fight and had been circling each other and the gym Hitdar is like fuck it and now's my chance, and then that's it, like.

I'm gonna mess you up crazy.

So the question is that's not a meme.

I don't know, right, The question is did the Kardassian then have to go live in like a pit somewhere with a bunch of outcasts and like, oh, I don't think he's such.

I think to heal his back, he just did a bunch of pushups.

Well no, I was gonna say, but year, but he's not on the station now.

He had to have liked, had to hit him in his back really hard, and then everything's all right.

Yeah.

Yeah, he climbed out of the fire caves and goes on to save Lacarian City.

Right, And I hope his his cave had the same cable connection, and that I watched only local news pertinent to the one place the occupant of that cave is is import into.

Well, Phil, you obviously remember Dark Knight Rises better than I do, because I I wonder how.

Much I love that movie.

But yes, all right, well I guess that'll do it.

So as always, everyone please write in let us know what you thought of these episodes.

Obviously, we will be back soon to finish out the sixth episode arc.

We'll do the last two next time around.

You can hit us on Facebook.

You can talk to us on a Blue Sky.

Email us at Transporter Room three at gmail dot com, justin you want to throw your Blue Sky handle out there.

Yeah, I'm justin Boulder, g U S T I M B O L G E R and I'm on Blue Scott.

Nice thank you again for joining us.

It's I love your insight on these things.

Thank you for asking me.

I'll talk about it all day long.

Justin's way smarter than we are.

Phil.

Yeah, very I do feel slightly less intelligent.

No, it's it's you know, you watch something a lot of times and you're like, oh, what's a different way I can watch it this time.

This has been like my background stuff since high school.

If I'm writing a paper or doing work.

Right, that's cool.

It's a lot of fun.

It does.

Yeah, and everyone, thank you for listening.

Listen to what you think about the episodes, and get ready for the last two installments.

They're coming up.

Until next time, we'll see you on yourvet Island.