Ikigai is something you cannot measure, whether it is contributing to your longevity or even health or not.

It's something so personal, so subjective, but in some ways maybe it is the driving force of everything.

Actually, you do, that's possible, but it may not be doing anything to the health of us, so it's something that you cannot measure.

So it's very difficult to say that Ikigai is the factor of longevity.

My good friend, sachiaki Takamiya returns to the Ikigai podcast.

Sachi has been a big part of the Ikigai tribe journey.

He was on episode three what Ikigai Means to the Japanese with Sachiaki Takamiya, and then on a double episode, episode 57 and 58, the Benefits of Ikigai Biohacking.

Sachi, you were a guest speaker on my online Ikigai Summit in 2023, and you were a guest facilitator and speaker on my Ikigai retreat last year.

You describe yourself as a 63-year-old biohacker and you are an expert on Ikigai diet longevity and you have a big update for us, so it's great to have you back on the podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you for inviting me to your podcast again.

My pleasure, good to see you.

So in June of this year, which is 2025, the first World Longevity Summit was held in Kyotango, japan, kyotango, yeah.

So where is Kyotango and why was it held there?

So Kyo-Tango is an area in Kyoto Prefecture, japan.

It is about one and a half hour away from Kyoto City.

But Kyo-Tango is a very special place because now it is known as a longevity hotspot because there are three times as many centenarians at the national average.

So there has been kind of longevity cohort research going on.

It's called the Kyoto Tango Longevity Cohort Study.

It is mostly done by Kyoto Prefectural University of Medicine.

Some of the doctors there conduct this research with the corporation of the Kyotango city and they have discovered they've done like so many surveys and different kind of things to check the health span and lifespan of the residents in Kyotango and then they have a lot of data now.

So they decided to hold this World Longevity Summit using that data.

I understand Maybe some of our listeners would be thinking oh isn't Okinawa the island of longevity?

But, as we discussed, even in your prefecture of Shiga there are many centenarians.

But actually Okinawa is no longer, actually, according to Dan Buettner.

A few years ago he was on the Rich Roll podcast saying Okinawa is now the least healthy prefecture in Japan, with high diabetes, obesity.

Obesity right, yeah, well, as far as as prefecture is concerned, okinawa is kind of low now and we have a kind of national average life expectancy ranking and then Shiga comes to the top and then Nagano comes to the second and Okinawa is very low.

But the region like the northern part of Okinawa where Danbutana visited and that's where the main model of the blue zone is still I mean the lifestyle there is still traditional lifestyle and many people are healthy and they probably live long.

But Okinawa as a prefecture doesn't rank high in the Japanese longevity rankings and so Kyoto prefecture is also high.

Kyoto is third or fourth now, I see, and so within Kyoto, kyoto Tango has this high density of centenarians, and so I guess that was why the summit was held there, and the summit issued a world longevity declaration.

What was the core message?

a World Longevity Declaration.

What was the core message?

So, based on this data they have of this KyoTango Longevity Cohort Study and also there are different presenters from different countries and different organizations like healthcare companies and so on so just collected all those data too, they came up with this longevity declaration and then they came up with the four secrets.

Four secrets.

Yeah, should I just review those four secrets or just we'll go one by one?

Yeah, we'll go one by one, but I think it's you mentioned.

To me it's not a singular factor, but a holistic outcome of combining specific lifestyle choices.

That's right.

There's no single factor.

Like I said, many factors are important.

And they're obviously interconnected and mutually reinforcing.

All right, so let's go through these four factors then.

What was the first one?

The first one is, as most people expect, it is diet, but especially kind of a plant-based or plant and fish-based protein and fiber.

So one thing unique about the diet of the Kyo-Tango people is that they mostly have a plant and fish-based protein and fiber in their diet, not much meat, especially red meat.

Okay, and so does that mean they're eating seafood and I think, also beans.

Yeah, they do eat a lot of beans and seafood and seaweeds too, because Kyo-Tango is the peninsula located by the sea, so fishing is very big in the region, so they have a lot of seafood, including seaweeds and beans too.

They do mostly soybeans, though they have tofu, natto and miso soup using miso, which is made from soybeans too.

And so they do talk about red meat moderation.

Why?

I mean?

I know there'll be all this debate on some people who eat a carnivore diet and a vegan diet, but from what they were saying, why are they recommending red meat moderation?

So, according to Dr Yuji Naito, who is one of the researchers of this Kyoto Tango Longevity Cohort study and he is a researcher at Kyoto Prefectural University of Medicine too so he says that animal-based protein and fat, especially that comes from red meat, feed harmful gut bacteria.

So we have a kind of beneficial bacteria and of bacteria in the gut, and usually we need to keep the ratio of good bacteria to bad bacteria one, and then the rest is called opportunistic bacteria and they are seven, and then opportunistic bacteria go either way.

If the good bacteria become dominant, then the opportunistic ones follow the good ones, but if the bad bacteria become dominant, the optimist bacteria follow the bad ones.

So you want to have the good bacteria slightly higher than the bad ones.

But bad ones are not completely bad.

They do have certain roles.

So you don't want to eliminate all of the bat bacteria, but just keep that ratio.

And then there are certain foods that can increase bat bacteria, such as sugar, alcohol, and then red meat is one of the foods that are considered to increase bat bacteria in the gut.

So they recommend that you can still eat them.

It's not like you shouldn't eat red meat at all, but you need to reduce the amount.

Okay, and do you have a personal guideline on how much meat one could eat based on your diet?

I mean, you've written a book.

Yeah, so yeah, this is based kind of general recommendation or this is actually by the World Cancer Organization.

They say between 350 grams to 500 grams of cooked red meat per week.

So cooked meat is slightly lower than raw meat.

So, like, 500 grams of cooked meat means somewhere around 700 grams of raw meat, depending on how you cook the meat.

So if you love steak, you can have it three times a week, probably.

Yeah, depending on the amount of steak too.

But yeah, probably something like that.

So I usually limit red meat to only the weekend.

I mean, I actually limit the meat to only the weekend and then half of the meat I consume is the chicken and then the rest is pork or beef.

So probably, yeah, I am safe if I'm consuming that amount.

But if you consume red meat on a daily basis, then you need to be very careful with the amount.

And is there an optimal protein ratio in Japan?

A protein ratio of plant-based and animal-based, and so on.

Yeah.

So many doctors.

When I say doctors'm talking about kind of a popular doctors who appear on youtube like recently there are many medical youtubers too.

They all seem to say that half of the protein sources should come from plant sources and half should come from animal sources, so that you can balance, because there are benefits from plant-based protein sources and there are obviously benefits from animal-based plant sources too.

So by combining the two you can have a good balance of the two.

That seems to be the common opinion of many Japanese doctors.

I do remember when my son was born in Japan, so this is now 21 years ago.

Before the birth, my wife and I went to the local education classes on diet and everything for us as parents but also for having a baby, and they mentioned basically the 1970s diet of Japan, which had a lot of vegetables, a lot of standard kind of miso soup, beans, pickles, fish and then a little bit of red meat.

They said that was like the ideal diet.

Yeah, 1970s diet is considered to be kind of a standard Japanese diet.

I mean, it's kind of a standard of the healthy Japanese diet.

So what else did they say was important for diet?

So the balance is very important.

And for the fiber, because most of us are short of fiber, we're not getting enough fiber.

So now do you know how much fiber we need per day, or what are the sort of recommended amount of fiber that we should have a day?

Well, I could lie and say I do and look at my notes, but I'm not going to do that, so I actually don't.

According to WHO, they recommend about 25 grams of fiber per day, and then in Japan the recommendation differs depending on your age and sex.

But for most adults let's say, you know, people who are over 40 to maybe 60, 70, they recommend 22 grams of fiber per day.

But most of us are not getting that amount.

So to get that amount of fiber, you need to deliberately try to include fiber-rich ingredients in your diet, which means lots of vegetables and beans, vegetables, beans, nuts and seeds, whole grains, mushrooms, potatoes such as sweet potatoes and taros, and then seaweeds too.

So those include a lot of fiber.

But all animal-based food don't include fiber, such as meat, fish, eggs or dairy.

So if you want to increase the fiber intake, that means you need to source your food from those categories.

Almost every day now, I have a oven-baked Japanese sweet potato.

Oh yeah, oh good, really easy.

I just get it.

I turn on the oven fairly low heat, put it in wait for about an hour an hour and I don't know, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, and then, yeah, it shrinks slightly.

So then the skin is really easy to pull off and I just mash that up and I might have some sauerkraut or kimchi oh, yeah, oh great.

yeah, so it's, and it's really nice.

It's sort of obviously it's not as starchy as white potatoes, kind of easier to eat.

It's got a softer consistency.

So you are the author of several books, one being the Big Eye Diet.

Would you add any recommendations?

So we've got, protein is critical, so we want this balance of plant and fish based protein according to this longevity declaration, reduce our meat intake and then have an ideal protein ratio between plants and fish and then obviously have enough fiber in our diet.

So 20 to 25 grams, so that would obviously include a high vegetable intake.

Yeah, high vegetable intake is important too.

So what I recommend is using this guideline called ma go wa yasashii koku, which basically means ma means beans, all kinds of beans, and go means basically means sesame seed, but basically nuts and seeds, yeah, and then wa seaweed, and then ma go wa yeah, it's vegetables, and then sa it's fish, and si it's mushrooms, and I it's potatoes or tubers, and then core grains and fruit.

So beans, nuts and seeds, vegetables, seaweed, fish, whole grains, potatoes, fruit.

If you focus on ingredients, then you get plenty of fiber.

And then for the fish, it doesn't have a fiber but it has omega-3 fatty acids and they are very good for your gut health as well.

Plus, fish has a lot of protein.

It is animal-based protein source.

But when I say fish, I'm talking about kind of a smaller fish and possibly wild caught.

Wild caught fish and small fish such as sardines or mackerel and those I think you call them fatty fish.

They contain a lot of omega-3 fatty acid, but not big fish like a tuna.

And then for the ratio of, I said half from plant and half from animal and my recommendation would be so among the animal side.

So half come from animal but half from fish and half from chicken and egg and a little bit of red meat.

But if you try to source your protein from fish, eggs and chicken, then you'll be safe from this kind of a gut bacteria issue.

I remember you delivered a webinar on Magoya Sushi, magoya Sashi Koku, so Koku is obviously a new.

Yes, the Japanese original is called Mago wa Yasashi, up to the tubers.

But I added Koku, which are whole grains and fruit.

Oh, you added it.

Yes.

And so that's a common mnemonic device, a memory device in Japan that people pass on so people remember to eat this.

Yeah, Among the health-conscious people.

In Japan now, mago wa yasashii is very popular.

It is used a lot.

And so each syllable ma represents mame, which would be beans.

So we'll put an explanation on that on the website, because it's quite complicated and we'll probably be talking another hour.

Okay, okay, yeah, good, Okay.

So what was the next factor for longevity?

they identified the next factor is also easily guessed, a very common factor that many people usually talk about.

So exercise.

Exercise was another key to longevity.

And did they have any particular recommendations?

Yes.

So one thing they said was, as you get old, certain functions deteriorate.

But how do you measure that you are getting older or how do you measure that your function is getting weaker?

So they said, by two things.

So one is your walking speed, especially when you are crossing the traffic light, and if you cannot cross the street before the light changes, then it is a sign that you have a problem in conducting regular routines.

So walking speed is one.

And this is really true because I remember my mother I think she was.

You know she loved walking very much.

She was always walking to get to places, but when she was maybe 82 or 83, suddenly her walking speed decreased and also her walking distance decreased too.

Like she used to be able to walk one or two kilometers without any problem, but then she was able to walk only 500 meters.

Then it became 300 meters.

So the walking speed is one.

The second thing is your grip strength.

So if you have one of those, a PET bottle, and if you have a problem opening it, then it is a sign that your grip strength is getting weaker.

So because of that they try to recommend kind of exercise to train those two factors and for the walking part is obviously walking.

Walking, especially Nordic walking, is something recommended in the Kiotango city.

I think the Kiotango city promotes Nordic walking, so now many people engage in Nordic walking.

I know you do that as well.

Well, I don't do it these days anymore, but I used to do it.

And then this is the one that I started doing, when I started doing exercises, which was in my late 50s.

I mean, when I was young I did some sports, but I didn't exercise for a long time.

And then I started doing it in my late 50s.

And then the first thing was Nordic walking.

And it is very good because it's not just regular walking.

When you walk with your pole, you have your back straight.

Therefore you can have a good posture while walking.

So it's really beneficial in that way too, and I find walking very relaxing mentally, compared to joking, which I do now, but when I jog it's not.

It's still hard, so it's not as relaxing as walking, so it's not so fun, but walking is always fun.

The time you walk you kind of relax and you enjoy the view and you kind of think of something exciting, and so it has a mental benefit, I feel.

Yeah, I agree, maybe not always thinking of something exciting, but so enjoying the view.

I mean, I take a walk in between Zoom calls and sometimes I listen to music, but sometimes I think, oh, it's such a nice day, I'll fully disconnect from technology.

Oh, that's good yeah it feels good and it's easy.

Any other activities?

Did they recommend any other?

activities.

Also, they recommend Gu Pa Tai so, which in Japanese this is Gu and this is Pa.

That's when we do the you know, rock, scissors, paper, like when you decide something we do like a janken pon, and then so this is gu, this is choki and this is pa.

So gu and pa.

You just open your palms and close, open, close, and this can train your grip strength.

So they recommended gupa Taiso.

And the last one is Radio Taiso, which is a popular kind of dynamic stretching exercise in Japan.

It's broadcasted on NHK radio at 6.30 in the morning, so some people gather in the school ground at 6.30, and then they practice this.

We call it radio tai.

So Radio means radio, so radio tai so.

Yeah, I remember reading some years ago and this is an irony, I guess that after World War II this was actually introduced to the Japanese by Americans.

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

I think originally there was some dynamic stretching exercise popular in America and that was introduced to Japan and it became more popular in Japan.

I wake up in the morning and I'll see the workman basically doing some form of radio tiesaw, or at least some form of warm-up in a circle, and they're sort of talking to each other.

So tiesaw means exercise.

So we've got gupa, which is clenching your fists and then opening up your hand, maybe the way you would sort of surprise a child or a baby, and you might go like that, right, yeah.

Yeah sort of surprise a child or a baby, and you might go like that, right, yeah, yeah.

And then radio tai.

So is basically listening to the radio and being guided through dynamic stretches and walking, so it doesn't take a lot, and I think also gardening is something yes, so gardening is something people naturally do in kyotango.

Actually, this is everywhere throughout Japanese countryside, because most residents have rice fields or vegetable fields.

They used to be farmers, I mean, some of them are still farmers now, but Japanese farms are much smaller than you know European or Australian farms, so when you say farms, it's a very small sort of scale.

But they still keep some rice fields and vegetable fields, and so a lot of older people still work in their garden.

So that's how they keep moving, so they have lots of natural movement in their daily life.

Yeah, it's like a garden patch.

Right yeah, where my wife's from one of her neighbors would have a garden patch, and she remembered from high school even to fairly recently, thinking, oh there's this old lady always working on her garden patch.

She must have tended to the garden for 50 years.

It obviously kept her going and obviously the benefits of the garden itself, the vegetables growing and cooking your own vegetables.

So now we get into the third factor for longevity.

So what's that one?

The third is basically communication and the kind of a sense of community there, because people in Kyo-Tango this is also the same throughout Japanese countryside Usually, you know, neighbours know each other and they have a lot of common activities, like, for example, in my neighborhood too, we have a neighborhood association group and we do the theoretical cleanup of the neighborhood, including the shrine, and we have lots of events such as sports festival in autumn and summer festival, spring festival and so on.

So there's a strong community tie and in Kyochango area they had a lot of a kind of battering system in the past, so they did communicate a lot with their neighbours.

So that communication is one of those four factors of longevity.

Yeah, you noted in the notes notes.

You called it.

Community cohesion, yes, and then there's also that added benefit of intergenerational connection.

Yeah, so many of the centenarians have, you know, grandchildren and sometimes grand-grandchildren, and then they still seem to have a good bond with their family members.

So not many of them live alone.

So, in other words, many of them live with their family, so they still have that communication in their everyday life.

Yeah, which is a wonderful thing I remember.

Before we left Japan to return to Australia, we spent one year living with my father-in-law.

So you know Luke would have this connection with his grandfather and he probably didn't remember it much, but there were certainly benefits and obviously my father-in-law enjoyed having his grandson around and we don't really do that in the West.

We don't have intergenerational families living in the one house like three generations.

And it is getting rare in the urban side of Japan too.

It is still common in the countryside, but not so much in big cities.

They have nuclear families and usually grandparents don't live with their children, but in the countryside it's still pretty common to have three generations living in the same house.

Yeah, so it seems in Japan, and I guess in any country, the closer people live to a city center, the more unhealthy they become, perhaps because of diet.

They have these more convenient diets, fast food diets, that they're busy with their city-related jobs, I guess we could call them.

Maybe they don't exercise.

If they do exercise, they do it at a gym, maybe not outside in nature, not walking.

And then there's a lot of isolation and loneliness, which is a big problem, you know, in japan with hikikomori and kodokoshi, like lonely deaths and social isolation.

And then, even though we're, we're connected through the internet and through our phones, it's it's obviously not the same as in-person connection.

So yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I think the best one is face-to-face communication.

Obviously, yeah, but with online communication I think there are differences between like what we're doing now, like one-on-one communication.

This is probably closer to the face-to-face communication.

While you are texting messages to maybe I don't know, not to a specific person, but to just no one you write a message and someone comments to you, and then you don't even know the commentator.

So that kind of communication probably doesn't help with this thing.

But if you know the person and if you spend some time doing a session like that with that person, I think that can be counted as sort of a new face-to-face communication, I suppose.

Yeah, so there is this broader social aspect I think you've mentioned too having friends and socializing with others.

It's obviously important.

It increases, I guess, longevity when we have others to connect with and perhaps a role or a reason to connect with others.

And so I think that leads us to this fourth factor that the KyoTango Longevity Summit summit announced.

So what's the fourth one?

yeah, the fourth one is something that most people don't guess.

I mean, it's been around and some people guess it, but not many people think of it as one of the four factors for longevity.

But this is actually your specialty, nick, it's ikigai.

Well, actually, before you continue, Sachi, there is this very romantic notion that ikigai is the secret to longevity because of a best-selling book.

But with this factor, I think we have more context and clarity, obviously on what the people in Kiotango worked out.

So, yeah, I'm always cautious hearing this sort of romantic idea that, oh you know, ikigai is the secret to longevity because it's very subjective.

Your ikigai could be beer or, you know, eating comfort food which would not be healthy for you.

Um, so what?

What are they saying ikigai is in this context?

yeah, so they usually ikigai means so, like daily joys or daily pleasure that motivates you to keep going, such as, you know, drinking coffee or even walks and so on, and also more kind of life purposes type of Ikigai too.

But the one they defined at this summit are the first one is a feeling of wanting to contribute to others and feeling of being needed by others.

So basically, first one is the feeling of wanting to contribute to others and the second one is the feeling of being needed by others.

So this kind of a social aspect seems to be important in the Ikigai Something you exist and mean to other people and you feel you belong to the community yeah, I've had other guests convey this, this idea of a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose in a role context.

You have a role, I think in kami's book, in the first few pages she talks about, is it muinkan?

Like you have no significance and that's why people are unhappy, suicidal, they have no significance.

But you feel significance when you can contribute and you feel needed by others.

Even in some surveys, when they interviewed japanese university students like let's say what is ikigai for you?

And some would reply saying, oh, just being needed by my friends or you know my friends wanting me to help them makes me feel ikigai.

So it is this social aspect and it goes.

Yeah, as you mentioned, it goes beyond joys, but it seems to connect back to community.

Right, yeah, it is in a way part of the community communication aspect.

So in the summit there's one presentation where they have some single old people, I mean like an old man or woman living alone.

They, for some reason, they don't live with their children, and then they are the ones who become a little problem if they live alone.

But then what the people encourage them to do is to go to school to teach the children about something that they know, their skill, and then in this way they get to communicate with children but also they get to contribute to the community so they can have this Ikigai through like a volunteering teaching in the local schools or schools or community centres.

So I think that the example of having this kind of Ikigai is to serve the community.

If you're old, maybe you know giving some of your wisdom or experience to younger generation.

Yeah, I guess it's this feeling that in some way you matter and so motivates you to keep living, to keep contributing, give you a role.

Yeah, the opposite of that seems to be loneliness and this feeling I don't matter.

And then what do you have to live for?

Right, and we naturally had this role in the I mean not all, but like back in 1950s, 60s and so on, still still now.

But more and more this neighborhood association is kind of shrinking.

But in the past old people had a role within the community.

So they all had a responsibility, so that they had something to contribute to the community.

So they felt they were needed, and that was also the secret in Okinawa too.

Okinawa has what they called Moai, this neighborhood group.

And then the old people had a role to pass down their wisdom and knowledge to younger generations or something.

Down their wisdom and knowledge to younger generations or something.

Yeah, I remember watching a documentary on Moai and how it was.

I'm not sure if they still practice it, but I remember basically it was when children first went to school or their form of school back, I guess, even pre-war or sort of post-war Japan and then they'd say, right, you six people, you six friends, will be friends for life, obviously making the assumption that they would all live in that village in Okinawa for the rest of their life.

Obviously, the miracle of travel, of getting in a plane and getting off a plane in a different country, it has all these amazing benefits.

But, yeah, it's given us this ability to leave our home, to leave our village, to leave our suburb, our community, and hopefully we end up joining another one.

But, yeah, all the benefits of technology have also maybe come at a price.

Did they mention anything about Life Mission?

They didn't particularly mention about life mission.

It's more like this, contributing to the community.

But in my video, my YouTube video, because I did pick up this topic to present in my YouTube channel and then I added this mission thing.

You usually for people in the countryside, you know you cannot expect them to have a specific mission in their life and so on, but for someone like me or many, many other people in the world, probably have a certain mission or certain kind of vision in their life that maybe they feel they want to do something to the world.

That's why they were born, that's why they came here for.

And then that kind of mission could be artistic mission, like if you're a musician or writer, maybe writing some specific piece of work or creating certain music or even performing or, you know, drawing some picture or some mission could be more political or environmental, or even health.

Health promoting health can be your mission too, and in your case, maybe spreading the concept of ikigai to the western world would be your mission.

So something slightly bigger than just serving your local community, which is fine too.

I mean, it's very precious things to serve the community.

But those of us who live in an urban area or don't have a specific community, then this kind of life mission can be your ikigai and in fact, this can become the very motivation to keep going.

I mean, for me this is the case.

I mean the ikigai biohacking or the ikigai diet spreading.

This is my ikigai and therefore that's why I exercise every day, or that's why I am careful with my diet, because I need to be healthy to continue doing this work.

So this is the goal.

The diet or exercise is the mean to achieve this goal, but this is the core motivation.

Well, as you know, I support your mission, satyaki, and that's yeah, you're right, that is.

My mission is to spread Ikigai, but obviously that involves learning, researching, talking to people like you and getting it.

I guess, getting it right and accurate and being respectful.

So I also think it has this role dynamic.

It's not just a mission, it's a role of service, contribution and maybe it's just now, as you mentioned, we can reach more people by location or by technology, and the role still exists in a small community.

Maybe it doesn't have as widespread impact, but still has meaningful impact within that community.

But there's also this idea of you believing what you do is unique to you to some degree, maybe to you know an incredible degree where you're a unique artist or you know a unique sports person or an entrepreneur.

But it can also be a job, a common job you do uniquely.

Or, as we're doing, we've kind of carved out our own niche and role with me specifically with, I guess, ikigai in general, but you're kind of more niche with health and diet and longevity related to ikigai.

Yeah, we get this incredible sense of uh, I'm sure both of us have this incredible sense of satisfaction.

You know, we're using our creativity to communicate, to teach others, to market, to get our message across.

So we'll we'll embed that video if you want your YouTube video on your summary of the summit and where you mention personal mission.

So, as I mentioned before, I've always been hesitant about relating Ikigai to longevity because it can romanticize the concept.

I see many posts on LinkedIn describing ikigai as the secret to longevity and happiness.

Ikigai can definitely encourage self-care behaviors what we've talked about today exercise, eating well and it definitely includes social connection.

But because ikigai is subjective and it's totally personal, I have this hesitation of saying I have this hesitation of saying, oh yes, it guarantees longevity, or something like that.

You and I don't mind having a beer every now and then, which is a source of ikigai for us.

We shared a beer, I think, in Inuyama, and some people enjoy being alone.

My wife really enjoys being alone and doing her crafts and just relaxing.

So what are your thoughts on this?

How strong do you think the ikigai longevity connection is?

well, um, so ikigai is not only for the longevity.

So yeah, I see what you mean.

I mean because it was introduced in dan buter's talk, that because Okinawans have ikigai and then therefore it became part of the longevity thing In Japan.

Ikigai was never thought to be the factor of longevity up until Dan Buettner's discovery.

So now they are talking about ikigai, but I think this is partly influenced by Dan Buettner's discovery.

So now they are talking about ikigai, but I think this is partly influenced by Dan Buettner's Blue Zone presentation.

So I think even this KyoTango summit too, they included ikigai because in the last 10 years or so, many people are researching about ikigai as a factor of longevity.

But ikigai in general is not only for longevity, it's just something we we have in japan that.

So there's so many dimensions, so many meanings to it, so just like a daily joy, and I think daily joy and pleasure are probably most common part of ikigai.

When you ask what is your ikigai, many people say oh, you know, drinking beer is my ikigai, or morning coffee is my ikigai, or spending some time with my grandchildren is ikigai, and so on, and so it's more like a sort of everyday, kind of small thing.

It's not a big thing.

So often in the West ikigai is presented to be like sort of significant kind of thing, but it's nothing special for Japanese people, it's just a regular word that we use, and also for longevity it is difficult to relate to.

I mean, diet is very clear Like you need to have this diet.

Exercise is clear too.

You can kind of scientifically measure you are doing good for your body and so on.

But ikigai is something you cannot measure whether it is contributing to your longevity or even health or not.

It's something so personal, so subjective, but in some ways maybe it is the driving force of everything.

Actually you do.

That's possible, but it may not be doing anything to the health of us.

So it's something that you cannot measure.

So it's very difficult to say that Ikigai is the factor of longevity, other than kind of making this kind of definition that Samit did like, wanting to contribute to others or feeling of being needed by others.

Yeah, that's all interesting.

So I mean, I think ultimately it's been a good thing that dan butner related ikigai to longevity, because it's it's made more people aware of probably eating a better diet, exercising and having social connections, and it's also maybe made japanese realize, oh, what was normal for us is not normal for the rest of the world.

And so, yeah, maybe we need to make sure we maintain this type of lifestyle and not end up eating like a Western diet, which unfortunately Japanese are.

You know, they're eating more fast food, junk food.

I remember that, like the super breakfast of Japanese, it'd be like brown rice, pickles, miso soup, maybe izakana, like grilled fish, and when I stay with friends in Japan they don't eat that anymore.

They're eating fried egg, a bit of salad, thick white toast.

I'm like, oh, you know, what are you guys doing?

And then I think there are many scales that try to measure ikigai, but they measure it in a certain context.

So even like the ikigai 9, which has become quite common, it's really measuring ikigai 9.

Yeah, the ikigai 9 scale.

I'll, I'll send you a link to it.

Oh yeah, okay, it was developed by Japanese researchers, but basically it has nine items and three of them relate to contribution.

So you know, am I contributing to others?

Am I needed, basically?

And then another three items relate to, basically, personal growth.

So I want to learn new things, I want to have a mentally rich life.

And then the other three items relate to inner states.

So how often am I happy?

And yeah, they actually mentioned, say, shinteki yutori say shinteki yutori yeah, how much mental space do I have?

So there are scales.

There's quite a few scales.

There's something also called the Ikigai Kan scale.

There's the Ikigai four-factor scale, but they're using the scale to try and define Ikigai.

So even the scales, they're all different.

Some are similar and some are quite different, but it would be trying to measure health, wellness, well-being and positive psychology all at once, which is just, you know, pretty be a lot of questions and some of the scales are quite long.

There's 16, and some of the scales are quite long.

They're 16 measures, 16 statements.

But anyway, going back to today's theme about longevity, so in short, the Kiotanga Summit's Declaration on Longevity underscores a holistic approach combining a primarily plant and fish-based fiber-rich diet, practical and community focused physical activity, robust social connections and, most importantly, a profound sense of purpose and contribution to one's community.

So it's almost promoting that we go back to living in communities yeah, like, uh, this is what we call the satoyama lifestyle in the japanese countryside.

So going back to the old style Japanese country life is very much this.

So, yeah, going back to the community and then you naturally end up having a good diet and then you move naturally, so you end up exercising.

And then one thing I noticed about the exercise is so now, in today's biohacking world, when people think of exercise, most people think of going to the gym.

I mean, strength training is recommended so much these days.

Many people do some kind of resistance training and also zone two, aerobic exercise, which is like jogging or walking can be, but it's more structured and there are lots and lots of methods to improve your health.

But while the one they practice in kyo tango and nothing so special, very basic activity.

But one thing I noticed was many of them do it together.

So they have a different sports facilities in Chiotango area, but I don't know, but lots and lots of like a ground and gymnasiums are open to public, so and then probably there they offer, like a table tennis classes or, you know, swimming classes and so on.

So they get together and do the sport with others.

So there are kind of interactions involved, and that is becoming their ikigai too, to do their sports with their friends their ikigai.

So that's a unique thing about Japanese approach compared to the Western this going to the gym and doing a specific exercise regimen.

Yeah, yeah, significant and important point.

It almost sounds like the exercise is also an e-bash or like a community, a place to belong.

And you're right.

Most people go to the gym and you know if they're young guys they might go with a friend and spot each other and they're always on the bench press seeing how much they can lift or see much how they I mean probably that's the ikigai too.

I mean I can see that like showing their muscle.

Is the ikigai that used to?

be my ikigai when I was a teenager.

So hopefully as we get older we get a little bit wiser.

But yeah, I mean, exercise in any form is great, but this added element of community and keeping it not so strict and not so, you know, there's a thing when you go to the gym there's this element of stress like, oh, I have to improve and I have to lift more and I have to record everything and get out my app and track this and track that and it probably does.

I don't know more mental harm than good when it becomes stressful.

But this idea of communities I mean even for me.

I know I lack community, community.

And here I am trying to preach Ikigai and I spend a lot of time in this room.

So even recently I'd spent four days learning about coaching in person and it was great and I, you know, I sort of made some new friends and there was fun and playfulness to the group work and had these meaningful connections.

And now that's all gone and I'm sort of back in my room focused on work and of course, you know I get to interview people like you and have a good time.

But I do think community is really important and I think it's also the future of my business and so, as you know, I'm thinking about returning to Japan to do more in-person retreats, and so you were part of my first Ikigai retreat last year.

So this is one of my sources of Ikigai, which is obviously sharing Ikigai with others through connection in Japan with my Japanese network and friends, which includes you.

So you were a special guest presenter on my Ikigai retreat and you facilitated an Ikigai diet cooking class and you gave this incredible insightful speech on diet, health and Ikigai.

You did it off the cuff, you had no notes, you just sort of gathered.

We all sat down and you just started talking.

It blew us away and then, yeah, it was really captivating and everyone really enjoyed that and the cooking class was great.

You made miso soup using your homemade cultivated miso and we had natto salad, so that was interesting.

So, yeah, such that was fantastic.

So thank you for being a part of that no, thank you.

I mean I enjoyed myself too.

I mean you know it was really great.

Uh, to you know, meet um, your participant there, and then, to you know, get to share my cooking method of you know, making natto salad and miso soup and so on.

And also they were so eager to learn.

They asked me so many questions.

So I was very happy to you know answer those questions, because I get to know what kind of thing they were interested in or what kind of thing comes into their mind when they try to practice those health measures at home, like what are the sort of things they get confused and things.

So it was a very great learning to understand what people wanted, what people are interested in, and especially because they came from different countries too, so how different regions have different environment and different limitations too.

I mean, especially when you talk about Japanese ingredients, some regions they're not accessible, so you need to think of alternative ingredients in each region and so on.

So it was great learning for me and I really enjoyed interacting with them too.

So, yeah, thank you for giving me the opportunity to do that presentation, not at all and, as you know, I'm inviting you back for the retreat again this November.

Yeah, this autumn.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

So, if anyone's listening and you want to meet Sachi in person and I mean, I call Sachi Sachi because he's a friend, so but yeah, and learn about healthy eating and diet in this holistic context, because you talk about many things, you're very knowledgeable and, yeah, I wish you had more exposure because I think you're introducing a unique angle on health and it's not, it's not a fad and you, you have no ego and you're not self.

You know you're not trying to self promote yourself.

You're, you're always serving the listener, but I'd like to promote you, sachi.

So you've written several books.

Oh, thank you.

You've written Ikigai Died.

I think you've written a book called Ihi Gai and Biohacking, and what was your written book on Nato?

Live Wiser, Not Smarter.

Nato Unleashed is a book about Nato and also the Live Wiser, Not Smarter.

This is the newest book, the Live Wiser, Not Smarter.

And that's the one you gave my participants at the retreat.

Yes, that's right.

That's right, yes.

Actually, it's a really good book because it's an easy read, it's concise and kind of gets to the most important points quickly.

So another aspect is having something to look forward to of Ikigai.

Yeah, so we have the retreat to look forward to, Right?

So where can people find you?

What's the best website?

The website is the Ikigai Diet.

It's called theikigaidietcom.

So theikigaidietcom has basic information about the ikigai diet, but I haven't uploaded the blog there recently, but I upload YouTube twice a week.

So if you have a YouTube platform, then you go to the ikigai diet channel.

The ikigai diet channel is my channel.

Then you can find lots of videos relating to health and longevity.

It's called the Ikigai Diet Channel.

We'll link to that.

So we'll link to your website, We'll link to the channel.

We'll include the notes on that.

Mnemonic device Mamoga.

Right Mago wa yasashii koku.

Mago wa yasashii koku.

Mago wa yasashii koku.

And yeah, we'll keep everyone updated on the retreat.

So if people want to join, visit ikigai-tribecom for more details.

And thank you so much, yeah.

Inuyama is a great place too.

It has a famous castle.

It's beautiful.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, you're right, the retreat's hosted away from all the tourist spots.

We have it at a lovely location in Inuyama and we get special access to temples to people such as Sachi and it's more like a it's not really a retreat.

You know, we're not doing yoga and doing day spas, we're learning.

We're learning and living and experiencing ikigai through Japanese culture and through meeting Japanese.

So it's going to be great.

So I'm going to do my best, sachi, and hopefully I'll see you in November for the second ikigai retreat.

Yes, I'm looking forward to it.

Okay, thanks, my friend.

Good to chat with you.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you too.