Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done Yay, that's messed up.

An SVU podcast.

I'm Liza Traeger and I'm Kara Klink And every week on this pod we talk SVU true crimes, interview people, and chit chat about whatever.

The so many elements our podcast is so much when people just go, so how often do you record?

I go, don't get me started.

I can't, I can't blame few times, explain what we're doing.

So many pieces.

We get it done, We get it done.

Oh also up.

I mean, the whole community came out for Paul Dano, which is great, my god, and but no one really coming out for Owen Wilson.

I'll say that much.

No one's coming out for Owen Wilson.

But I did see Lillard respond and he was like, yeah, it hurts my feelings.

And Jared was supposed to work with him on Sunday and he ended up not being able to make it, and I was like, I hope he didn't pull out because of the Tarantino.

His daughter posted something like I think but he was sens Remember when we interviewed, Matthew was a little sensitive.

But I do want to say I sent I DMed this to Casey, so then resurfaced.

I didn't.

I've never heard this.

It's Quentin Tarantino interviews where he is defending Roman Polanski, saying the thirteen year old consented that she wanted it, that it's bullshit, that statutory rape'es not rape, that it's not a like fully like eight minutes, and it's Howard Stern going yeah, I don't what what And people are like if Howard's e thinks you're fucked in, then rise like, yeah, what the thought to openness?

Paul Dano can of worms Tarantino because now everybody's finding out what he like.

I don't know, I don't.

I'm you know, I knew he was a freak and like the feet, like I knew, you know, Uma Thurman got injured on set, Like I'm not, I knew, you know.

I think he's just a success.

I think he thinks he's like the like the the bees fucking knees and like.

But he has hot movies.

But like you can't just like it's a tough clip to listen to.

I'm like, what the fuck, yeah, I can never like, I don't know.

I just don't know why the thirties like I it's strange.

It's strange for that to be the thing.

She was okay like because then, remember there was a trend where people were putting up photos on social media of them at thirteen, and it's like, no, you're a kid, You're truly a kid.

This is psycho, this is psycho.

I hate that pedophiles are so confident right now.

I know while I having the moment, I did a secret Sana last night and I got a really gray bottle of wine and a little soft leather wine satchel that I'm obsessed with.

You posted in the satchel.

No, I saw the satchel.

You posted you tag you were really into the satchel.

I wanted to it's a it's a woman that makes handmade she's like a local LA woman.

And I was like, here's my tag, you know, take it.

I was excited.

We had a nice little we had like I had like a little it was like a private room situation with like thirteen women having a secret Sanna.

But here's here's my question.

So my version of Secret Sanna is that whoever goes into the Secret Sanna, we all pull a name, we buy a present for that person, and then we like present him to each other at the party.

My friends, a couple of my friends at the party were like, no, there aren't.

People just supposed to pick their gift that's labeled and try to guess who gave it to them.

Which I've never played it that way.

What do you think I've I've done it the first way and I like that, but I'm into the second way because gay.

Is fun as well.

So my friend like gave her gift but then gave like a little second gift that kind of hinted at who she was, but like we all knew because we played it the other way, and she was like, this is not how I play, and so it's kind of fun to add the little layer of mystery.

I think we just didn't know.

So none of us, most of us didn't really come with labeled gifts and so we had to hand them to each other.

But it was just it was a lot of skincare.

What did you bring?

A lot of skincare?

The woman I got is really into like Korean skincare, So I got her some skincare stuff.

A mask, some under eye patches.

You know.

No, but if your friends, things are going to be similar.

Because like last year, me and my group of friends here in New York that we do Christmas together, it was a big heavy ceramics here.

Everyone ended up getting a ceramic and the year before was pouches, like we all got each other little pouches.

Little pouches.

Yeah, it's like when you see it all happened this year.

I'm curious to see if there's a trend this.

Yeah, there's.

Oh and tinned fish, like we each get tin fish, I remember.

I mean I just like being on the bottom floor of anything to see fish wife now in true like giant grocery stores.

I was getting their their pr when they were a tiny little company before.

Yeah, the founder's gone to a fight and split.

So oh they did.

Yeah you heard it here first Jesus or not?

I mean it's been years, but yeah, the tin fish girls.

Do we know somebody who did that?

Yes?

Yes, yes, yes, because then only one of them was on Shark Tank.

So that was like a huge kind of indicator to a separation.

They went on Shark Tank, well, one of them went on Shark Tank.

Well, yes, the product.

The product.

I didn't know that the fish went on on on Shark Tank.

Wow.

Interesting Okay.

But also with trends of like gifts of stuff, it's kind of how I feel with the people that we meet that listen to our stuff.

It's like, we're gonna have a lot in comment.

Yeah, we just star of the age.

We're into the same thing.

It's just it is what it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I meet the girls and we're all like in the same stuff.

They'll always bring a gift and be like, I don't know if you'll like this, and I'm like, yeah, of course I do.

You know everything about me, you know everything.

Oh but I will do.

Okay, if a ton of your kids, if your advice, if your kids have lots of stuffed animals.

I just got this, like plastic.

It's the shape of a not even a beanbackshirt, like those blow up chairs that we had from Claire's, Like those like inflatable chairs.

It's like that, but it's not inflatable.

You fill it with stuffed animals.

It's revolutionized my life.

So a bunch of it's like, you know, I have my Leet Cyberset shirts.

They don't really wear them, they're old, but I don't want to throw them away.

So it's like the bottom of it's like my Luigi Mangione shirt, like just fun shirts stuffed with stuffed animal.

It's revolutionized.

My Oh it's clear so you can see through.

Yeah, you look at all the animals.

You look at all of them.

Okay, So I was thinking you were talking about, like just there's just like these bean bag chairs we just shove.

I'm picking it up.

You're looking at it all and then you sit and then you sit on it, which I'm considering getting because my fucking children are overrun with stuffies and if you think that they're Christmas liss.

Wow.

Yeah, it's like a little chair and you can see all the stuffies.

Yeah, have the plastic clear plastics.

I just like because that's the thing.

It's like, I love my I love them, but I like looking at my stuff.

And that's what's hard.

When you're like a messy person, you don't know what everything is.

And then here it's like I get to look at all their cute faces.

I know, and these bean bag chairs that I was referring to you don't get to see them.

They're just kind of like shoved inside like a chair that looks like a soccer ball or like has unicorns.

On it or whatever the fuck fuck that.

Yeah, this is like you get the full full thing.

It's so interesting.

The I feel like I live an active life and now we're here and I'm like, did I where was I?

I know, I'm literally thinking about you know what I've been going to like a lot of Christmas stuff, Like I went to a couple of Christmas parties over the weekend and I'm like, who did I see?

What did I?

Who did I?

It's a rid Safie my friend Brian Saffie, who I love, saw him, got to see him.

That was great.

I don't even know if I've seen a movie, Like did I watch a show?

Like I know, I I don't.

Oh Beverly Hills Premier that was like huge, I watched it.

You're right, it's so boring.

Someone was like, I love how Salt Lake City could be one dinner, one location, full of drama, and then we have Beverly Hills where it's like six locations, five conglomerate of people like like not conglomerate, like groups of people, solo shots, eight dinners, an event, and none of it salt like just needs one dinner.

I just don't know if they have anything, honestly, O, I have Rachel Zoe spilling and I like that.

Yeah, she chelo.

I was a Rachel Zoe person back when she was on.

I watched her show on Bravo, Like you may know me, I've lived here before, like about Bravo, like I like, I send.

And then apparently the new girl on Beverly Hills has some shit going on, like as the show premieres, I think she's getting divorced from her husband who and it's like a whole thing, like it's scandaloso Anyway, I think that woman is having some kind of big divorce.

Maybe that'll be something, But I really just don't care about the Dereet and Kyle friendship.

The you're not a good friend to me, you haven't been a good friend to me nonsense over and over again, Like talk to me about somebody making out with someone else's husband while he's farting, Like I need more Salt Lake City style action in Beverly Hills or I'm.

No, they take themselves too.

Seriously, they're too image, They're too It's it's inside.

Yeah, it's too inside.

Like we need people a little unhinged, a little detached from reality, but not just in a financial way.

Yeah, and I'll be honest, it's like my new cable cutting ways of now that I'm a full streamer, now that I've joined the generation of now, and I don't have my episodes just sitting for me on my DVR.

It's like I'm actively looking up Salt Lake because I'm like, oh, I got to see what happens or whatever.

I'm like six episodes behind on Potomac, which I love.

I usually love Potomac.

But if some if it's not like it's like you really do lose yourself to the streamers, if people are not like just going into to go find it.

Yeah, I mean, Southern Charm has been fine.

Good.

I'm excited for summer.

You know, I'm in.

I am in.

Okay, I've I've remembered something that happened in my life.

Okay, and I actually need your expertise, so this is perfect.

Oh okay, So I'm at a party, no big deal, but they but I went outside to smoke weed.

But the coat check took forever, and they like lost one of my friends, like it just the coat check.

I didn't it was I wasn't trusting anymore.

So I'm like, I'm keeping my coat for the rest of the party.

I don't want to give it back to them.

Then I go back to the party.

Happy meals have arrived.

Of course I grab a happy meal.

I'm stoned.

There's a fortune teller.

I'm in a line for the fortune teller.

Okay, So I'm eating a nugget.

I'm dipping it in sweet and sour.

Someone distracts me, starts talking to me.

I spill all the sweet and sour down my coat, just all of it.

And I don't realize that for a while, like I think I'm pouring and I go, oh no, And of course I blame this man fully, why did you distract me?

Like why are do you?

Why are you talking to me?

I'm clearly eating nuggets in a coat, like I can't imagine a more like get away from me kind of vibe and a coat eating nuggets alone like I okay, yeah, I guess you would leave me alone.

So I'm sticky.

It's everywhere.

It's the worst sauce to spill.

It's the worst.

I'm wetting it.

It's twenty degrees in New York.

I only have this one winter coat.

You know, I'm decluttering.

I'm in my I'm in my new era.

Yeah, and so I only have this one coat, so I can't dryly.

I can't like get rid of it because it's twenty degrees.

I need the coat.

So do I just buy another coat in the interim?

Do I wet it right now?

It's been days now, Like should I sweat something with soap?

Or is it all colors?

The coat?

It's black.

It's like a blackack puffer.

It's a black normal puffer.

No fashion, no must.

I don't think you need to bring that anywhere.

I think you can clean that yourself.

I think I could just wet it, keep wetting it with like soap, Wet it a little bit of soap.

Let it dry near your heater that I'm sure is like expelling extreme heat at all times, you know, so it'll dry it like really fast.

Like yeah, I really think, just yeah, you want to scrape up all the actual like sauce or whatever, and then yeah, just like I'll just been wearing it honestly dish soap.

You could use.

That's what I'm dawn because it's stained as fuck and I've and no one can really see it.

But it's sticky.

Yeah, you just got to get the stick out of there.

Water stick.

Yeah.

Like, and this coat's not even a few weeks old.

Like I bought the coat for this winter season to be war immediate, sweet and sour immediate in the.

Event that something really drastic was to happen to one of your coats.

I mean, you know, you can get like a unicchlowpuffer for like nothing.

I still have a uniclowpuffer that I think I grabbed on the go one time.

Okay, you know I also went to a Shabbat dinner.

Crazy oh, I got invited to a Shabbat dinner with a bunch of like sexy Jews.

Everyone was wearing their necklaces.

I go, okay, I didn't get that memo.

The micro trend of the party, like everyone had a little mazoza around their neck or a high uh huh.

But it was weed theme.

So it was like, it's this Jeweye brand, so it was like Jewish token jew So it's like the honey is infused with weed, and then they use that honey to bake the halla.

Oh okay, and the.

The chef, the holl Of guy, I guess follow he has a million followers.

So it's a famous Jewish gay baker chef using Jewish infused.

Honey and making weed.

Yeah, it was great.

And then one of the packages is like, it's like this lemon gummy, but the shape is a Jewish star, and unfortunately lemon is yellow, so the packaging for the gummies is a yellow Jewish star.

Oh they didn't they didn't think it through.

They didn't think it through.

You just need one person and outside eye to go.

That's actually not gonna work.

So they presented it.

But the boys who do the weed, the token ju, they're all gay boys too.

It's like a gay Jewish boy enterprise.

It's like a fucking dream.

Yeah, yeah, it was cool.

It was cool for sure.

I sat next to some chef, Yeah, it was.

It was that's so fun.

You know, I don't go to events like this.

You know, some people are built for network.

This is what they do.

I feel in our business network is really frowned down to pound and it's like a lame thing to do.

And so I have that frame of mind, but then other businesses just do it.

I guess if you're in real estate, you gotta yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah.

I think it's like, uh, people bought tickets to this event.

I was brought thing, you know, thank you to my friend R.

I think people think that if in our business, it's like if you have talent, you have talent and you don't really need to like be glad handing and like talking to people and being like.

Call me, let's meet, let's do that or whatever.

But I would say like in like the TikTok world and like other you know, like extrapolations of entertainment, people are networking and collabing and doing shit to help each other.

Babe up.

You know, it's probably just not in stand up and like our specific Yeah, I think that's like you know guys like that, Like you know, I know one guy specifically who just like is always like coming around to shows being like, what's up?

How are you you?

Guys like, and it's like, Okay, I'm gonna say the name bleep it case.

You know, I want to guess, well, he.

Fucking sucks, But that's not that's not who I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a guy who's not that I mean, not that that guy's good, but that guy has a reputation for being good.

This guy is not even good.

Is like this fucking guy.

And I said, not that good.

I thought him, but I forgot his name.

No, I'm not talking about somebody who's actually good at it.

I mean he's a like sickophan, you know, he just kisses ass.

But you're right, you're right, Like if everyone's doing business and you will want to grow business and collab, that makes sense.

There's just something like an avert I I am.

You know.

It was a cool experience for me.

Did I show a few people my Simpsons art project?

Yeah?

Yeah, that's still not died down.

Yeah.

Oh, Matt Groening might be in the Epstein Files.

I saw that, So what, no big deal.

Just dedicated my life to the show.

But oh my god, did we ask people in the last episode to say Epstein Files if they listened to the end and that's why they're all right Epstein Files.

I saw your comment and I was like, ah, got it, got it, got it.

Go.

I forget last night, at this last night, at this secret standa somebody goes, oh, I listened to I was listening to Last Cultriestas or something, and I go, I don't really listen to that many podcasts and they go, she goes, you don't, and I go, no, I listened to like two and she goes your own, and I go, I don't listen to my own, Like what?

No, when people tell you things, Okay, So someone I performed in Connecticut woo.

At the Funny Babe.

Yeah, it was a nice drive.

It's cute.

It's cute.

But so I was talking to a guy after my show and he's like, you know, when I found you was your Degenerate Special.

And then he's like, and this joke and then he said a joke that I don't remember these words ever coming out of my mouth like and he was.

He goes, you don't remember that, and I go, I think I was twenty eighteen, Like no.

But when he told me, I go, oh, yeah, I guess that was pretty funny.

But like, yeah, it's it's I don't remember anything.

Once it's out of my mouth, it's gone.

It's like I don't remember anything I say ever.

Yeah, that's except the things I repented over and over and over again.

Though, yeah, if you if you send us a dumbie, people will dm us just like responding to something we say.

And I'm like, I don't even know what this is about, Like, so you we need a little bit of context, because I, yeah, I don't.

But this guy, this was crazy.

So I'm meeting people after the show, you know, selling my magnets, selling my wares.

So I'm standing it's the end of the line.

So it's these two girls that I've met before, they came to my show and Rhode Island, so they seems familiar.

And then a group of seven straight white men and they were the only the only straight men at my show without like a partner.

And then behind them was a couple of people from my Rhode Island show as well, and I know them through a mutual friend.

So but it's the end of the line.

These are the last three parties.

The group of white men can't wait anymore, budge the two girls and just fully take over and won't leave.

And I I I didn't kick him away because he knew all these jokes of mine and stuff, and seems like he's been following me for a while, and he did give me extra money for the magnets.

But it was so crazy to watch, like, you're almost there.

There's two women and they just couldn't.

They all bulldozed the two women that were next, and I was like, it was almost your turn, got like, yeah, you've waited this long and it wasn't quick.

It wasn't like listen our sitter, Oh, we gotta get out of here.

But it was truly it's just wild when you see stereotypes come to life, and it was.

It was crazy.

It was really like a wild thing to watch.

And I hope I'm describing it well enough for you guys to see how kind of nutty it was.

Yeah, yeah, it's almost your turn.

You just had to wait for two more and it wasn't quit.

Yeah, fully.

And then when I started talking to that other group that then became friends after because they were bonding, he did it again.

He interrupted again.

It was crazy.

Maybe he thought at that point that you guys were friends and he had some kind of status.

I don't know.

And then he goes, and my name's Joshua, like that one joke you did, and I go.

What what?

I'm like, I remember a lot of your bits I don't remember a Joshua bit, but it could be older, could go back.

Well, and if you're listening, I hope your holidays are good.

I hope tonight, tonight I'll be at a wedding.

If you're watching this, the moment it comes out on Tuesday, I'll be at a wedding.

I'll be at a Tuesday wedding.

You're going to a pre New Year's Eve wedding?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, I'll be at a wedding.

And you know that.

I like, I actually like a sort of like I went to a New Year's Eve wedding once and it was awesome, Like it was fung It's just like you don't even have to worry about the food or the drinks or anything.

The dancing's already happening, the big countdown happens.

It's like someone's taking care of everything for you on New Year's even though yours is the day before.

But I think it'll still be like really fun.

Yeah, and it'll be holiday season.

But also, if you guys are listening to this.

January third, I'm in Seattle.

January fourth, I'm in Vancouver, and then I just added Pittsburgh.

I'll be in Kansas City, grammar Sya Theater in February, New York, like I'm hitting the road next year.

Yeah, go to that spassed up live dot com.

You can get to Lisa's link, you can get to our merch and I have a resolution.

What's your resolution?

I want to go to Six Flags.

Oh wow, that seems like very attainable.

It's been years since I've gotten on a roller coaster and I want to.

I want to plan the event.

I feel sometimes I wait for people to invite me to things or plan or pick a spot, and I'm gonna plan it.

I'm gonna plan, I'm gonna rent the thing and we're gonna go.

And I want to ride roller coasters sick.

I love six Flags.

I mean that like I actually maybe I'll go in January because the best part time to go in LA is like is January, like everyone's back at school, no school trips and it's cold.

Maybe I thought about my brother in January.

Once we got off the roller coaster got right back on, we were like able to go like multiple times on uh Superman and stuff.

That just hit me.

Yeah, the one because I would go probably in New Jersey and that's closed in the winter.

Yeah, so unless you're gonna go to another state.

Yeah, they open back up.

They probably open back up in like May.

Yeah, I don't know, but that is definitely.

I think you can make this happen.

And I guess I'll say, drink water and drink water.

Drink water, drink water.

I actually downloaded I've been flossing.

Whoa brag.

I redownloaded a water tracking app on my phone, but I want like a better one.

This one has so many ads.

If you have like just a simple app that just I can just track how much water I'm drinking, please send it to me.

I don't like area person to your website.

Why are there other things pop I'm already on the site.

I'm already here.

Honestly, the pop ups are making me.

I don't need ten percent off.

I don't need ten percent off.

Get away from me.

It's so crazy.

But Happy New Year, last show of twenty twenty five, Happy New Year.

You're gonna love this.

So I have a theory right now where young people don't have never knocked on a door.

I think that's the generational divide.

Like you know, how you would go to someone's house knock on a door, maybe they're home, maybe they're not.

I don't think people.

I don't think young people have ever done that.

People go, I'm here, are you home?

They tell like there's no surprise, And so I think culture.

I'm like trying to think of it, like what that means about humanity and us because I just read something about how like video games, Nintendo's like once you fail, you have to start over and there was no cheat sheets, you had to learn the things on your own, and how that helped us develop brain stuff, and how this generation it's it's never ending games.

There's no failure, there's lives there.

You say your progress, you move forward.

Yeah.

So I'm trying to figure out what knocking has to do with who we are as people.

And I ask a crowd this past weekend anyone born after two thousands?

Some people clapped and I go, how many have you ever knocked on a door?

And this girl like offend?

Yeah, like yeah, And I go, okay, great, who's door?

Because I don't believe it?

Right, So I go, who sort did you knock on?

And she goes trick or treating?

I go, you prove my point?

I mean to me, like as a sociological experimenter.

I couldn't believe it.

I'm like, so once a year as a holiday where people are waiting, I'm not expecting their door to get knocked on.

Yeah, but to me, I was like, the gifts you just gave me in terms of my data is huge.

But the kids want to deny it.

They want to deny it like other ones like no, when I go to neighborhood for kids, I go, you're lying, You're lying.

I think they're lying.

I mean, I bet you random kidnappings are down because we were going door to door selling wrapping paper, selling popcorn.

I mean we were knocking on whoever freaks door at any hour of the day, knock, knock.

Come on.

Yeah, so I bet that's probably a good thing.

Don't go knocking on random fucking door.

Also, now everybody has a ring cam and there's all this ringcam footage goes around that would deter me from knocking on doors.

More of like yeah, you know, so I'm gonna post the clips.

So sorry if you already saw it, but yeah, I'm work.

I'm working on the clip at this point.

Hopefully it's out, but it's this episode's coming out.

Twelve Hourty we're interesting.

I feel kind of boring, but I hope you listen.

It's the end of the year, it's the last episode of the year.

We're burnt out.

We've been going to too many I'm I've been like drunk for four days.

I've been going to all these parties and dinners.

And it's the holidays, so give us a break.

But happy New Year.

Hope everybody has a good twenty twenty six, and we'll have news, we'll have updates.

Yeah, we're well.

Yeah, twenty twenty six will be big.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Our first episode of the year is going to be a banger in twenty twenty six.

Don't sleep on the pod.

Don't make this the last episode you listen to.

Please.

All right, let's get started.

We have a good one today.

We're doing Wrath Baby Steve It season three, episode two.

And if you're having deja vu, if you live in the area of Columbus, Ohio, and you're having deja vu, it's because we did do this episode at a live show there a couple of years ago.

Or was it Cleveland or Columbus.

I feel like, oh wait, maybe it was it was Cleveland, because it was because it was a big room, not a lot of people and a bat not a dead child.

Up front.

It was like, oh, my brother in law's family all came.

All my brother in law, like my brother Colin's husband, his husband, Joe is from Ohio.

His mom came, Joe's uh, two brothers and their wives came.

Like all these people came and I was like, we open on you know.

Dead child.

Yeah, we we messed it up.

We just thought it was funny because like because this this episode does stick into my head.

Also a seven Deadly Sin fun rath.

Yeah.

Also October fifth, two thousand and one, Fresh from nine to eleven?

Oh maybe are yeah fresh right?

I don't know, a post nine to eleven fresheet.

You know, we love that, but I think we could have given it another go at another live show.

We probably could have fine tuned it, but we just were both like this episode so dark.

Like normally the ones we do on the road are like funny.

It's brothers and sisters fucking each other, you know, like little funny, like people that are porn stars trying to that are like killing their porn boss.

You know, this one was just too.

Dark, and we apologize Cleveland, but we're gonna make it fun today, but just not with no, you're not.

You don't have a drink in front of you.

Maybe you do.

Yeah, and guess what, we're in the woods.

So that's we start out in the woods, always good.

And there's a dead body in the trunk of a like a car, and there's two nerds taking notes and matching blue jumpsuits.

And then there's another body.

There's little tags we see there's games or training, scavenge, something's going on.

They're talking about scavin not eating enough.

And once there's a clipboard, you know, it's an official dead body kind of chain of we'll find out.

One of them trips though, and it's three bodies that are on the trail of the path.

But they shouldn't be on this path and these nerds know that and so and these bodies are zip tipe, so they got to call the cops.

And then one runs back and he's wearing little booties to keep and I don't know, like a jeep to me, like from my childhood, to me, it's like the hottest, coolest car.

It really just was a car that the cool kids got to drive.

Yeah, yeah, and so but these are dorks go good for them, and then but they don't like that the real cops are getting in the way of their experiments and contaminating them.

One of the cops is actually a FED so he's from the FBI, and he's being nice to the science guy.

He's like, come on, guys, you know, like don't don't fuck with their experiments.

So this character's name is Rod Franklin, played by John Doman, and he's in five SVU episodes, so that's pretty exciting.

So he's in the five episode club.

He's in a season one, two, three, eight, and thirteen and a different character each time.

So Muggsy Kane has this in Michael O'Keeffe, so he joins this.

I think he's the guy that's drinking milk.

Yeah, he's the guy that's drinking milk that time.

Yeah, that's a yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

And he's and he's working.

He's working, okay, So he's and he's probably most well known from the Wire, so he was in all the seasons of the Wire.

He's been working for decades.

He clearly looks like a cop.

He's been in Mothership, oh see the affair, like damages.

He's working.

He's working.

Yeah, Stabler meets them and starts chatting with the science guy and is being really complimentary, very kind of you know, not what you'd expect from Stablor, but he loves this place.

He goes, hell of a place.

You got here.

They do DK research, They study death to help law enforcement.

They look at decomposition insect things.

And then another cop walks over and Stable goes, honestly, will the this will all happen faster if you go back to your office and then you guys can go back to work, and the guy runs off.

So the boys are here.

We're working the case.

Three bodies, one Hispanic female and she was a rape victim at SVU.

Then there's a minor they don't know, but he is a young black boy.

And then there's a white male father of a rape murder victim.

And two of the adults were both Benson cases.

So dramatic music starts to play and Stabler takes in the crime scene and now the credits.

So we're back at work and Benson is like, why wasn't I called to the scene?

Those are my cases?

And staybugers, there's not enough time, Like we were working fast.

There's the in between guy, the Feds, YadA, YadA, and it's Pixie cut Benson by the way, you know the cut that almost got her fired.

Yeah, with the little bleach highlights like just at the at the ends, a little bit in there.

Oh my god.

Wait, someone gave me an idea for merch for us for the next drop.

If you guys, you know, get the Lewis Lewis Lewis Lewis Luis shirt.

But what if we do ay a jersey?

This was someone and I got her information.

I was drunk, but I got her information.

If we ever make it.

But what if we do a jersey and on the back it says you know, Tommy and then it's like TMU, Like we're the TMU team and Tommy is our name.

You don't like this, okay, you don't seem too like a baseball tea.

You know.

I've been dying to do a baseball tea forever.

A baseball tea is one thing.

Yeah, like actual like mess jersey.

I wouldn't wear that.

We were not making mesh.

We were not making mesh.

This is for the power Puff game, you know, or the power.

Yes, No, I like that.

I like a baseball tea.

I think that's cute.

But the Tommy okay, you hate it, you hate it, sorry to our listener, Kara hates okay.

Okay.

So the body of this haircut is very distinct Season three situation.

But once you pull off a cut like that, you can like, you know, you know, you're hot in every angle, so it works.

You have the facial structure she has.

Truly any haircut will do.

Yeah.

So but since the bodies are dumped at the federal facility, Huang is like they were killed in the city, so it's you know, it will be our case.

And then she goes, no, that's my case.

I'm the lead on this, and Stamler's like okay, And so Benson lead is the full squad meeting.

So the white guy is Peter Cordell and he's the dad of Tina Cordell.

And in nineteen eighty three, during the trial, Benson was with the dad while the perp was acquitted.

Belzer asks what went wrong in the case, and she said a series of lab mix ups.

So then the Hispanic female Carmela barantes she was raped and beaten three years ago by a gang banger who is serving eight to twelve and sing sing, so it could be some sort of gang revenge, but the other victims have no gang affiliation, so probably not.

And then the young boy is Clayton Derrecks, who was abused by his father, was placed in a group home and then raped in the group home, and then finally placed in foster care.

Can you believe people weren't dying in the aisles in Cleveland?

Yeah, it's like the darkest fucking first minute of the show.

Pressed ahead, apologies to hilarities.

So foster mother did file a missing person's report yesterday on the boy, so hopefully she's like not a bad person.

Also, the three victims were pumped with sedatives, so potassium chloride, which makes the death painless, and Finn goes, does that make a difference?

Yeah, it does, Like, I know death is death, but like you, I'd rather go painless than you'd.

Rather fall asleep and never wake up then be stabbed.

Ortured by some of these people in finnis seen some of the things that these victims go through, Like what the fuck?

So whatever, So Craigan sends everyone off to work to see if there are any other connections besides Benson to the case.

So we go to the home of Adam Cordell, and his son does not know the there are two people.

He's also so fucking pissed, like this motherfck, so he assumes it's the killer of his sister.

So he's like, this dude kills my sister.

Now he kills my dad, Like what the fuck?

And they're like, well, have you ever have you seen Victor Clawson in the area, And he goes, no, that motherfucker is a carpet layer in Queens.

His brother in law got him the job.

He's married, his wife's pregnant, he gets to live a whole life.

And Benson goes, wait, wait, wait, are you stalking him?

And he goes, no, no, no, but my dad did so not me.

So yeah, the dad was following him to make sure that everyone knew who, like who he really was, and you know that might have gotten his father killed.

So they go to visit Victor and Victor has gelled hair.

He looks like, honestly, he should be in a musical, like he is laying carpet, but it seems like he can break out into song at any moment, and he's like, listen, a jury found me not guilty.

Leave me the fuck alone.

I'm putting up and down carpet.

That's all I'm doing.

And he won't stop.

He won't stop the carpet, the carpet.

He's a classic s You character.

He keeps on move and Saylor's like, okay, well, how about we asked your wife your whereabouts?

How about you do that?

And he's like, leave me alone, and Benson goes, how you left Tina alone?

You raped and strangled her.

And he says, you can't harass me or that old man and they're like, well the old man's dead.

He goes, good, now I can get back to my life and they go, okay, sure, but you are the number one suspect and he's he keeps carrying carpet and he calls the old man unhinged and he's like, I had a restraining order, but the cops never enforced it.

And Benson goes, yeah, we just thought I'm murdering rapists like you could handle it by yourself, and he's like, listen, Tina had a smart mouth too, and it got her in a lot of trouble, so that sounds like a threat.

We're going to push him against the van and start arresting him.

And then they threaten him more and go, we're going to tell everyone you're a pedophile, and so he's like, okay, okay, I was home.

I was home, and then the next night I was at Lama's class and his wife has the number to the Lama's place.

Obviously he wouldn't the invisible labor women do.

Okay, my wife has the numba.

But he goes, we're done, but Stabler grabs him again and pushes him and says, nope, now we're done, and he smiles like he fucking loved that, and they go to So now they're gonna go to the little boy's foster mother.

Her name is missus Harding.

She usually has up to six kids at a time.

It's always temporary until they find permanent placement.

But Clayton never warmed up to her.

And Clayton was stable, she said, though, and like younger kids looked up to him and he was just a nice boy.

But she doesn't know where he would go.

But there's no dad in the picture, really, like even visits with the dad were supervised.

Who were they supervised by Benson connector So then she says, well, the group home he came from was in the Bronx and he does have a good friend there, so maybe you can like chat with the boy.

So they go down to the group home.

They're talking to an adult that's that works there, who says that Michael tried to attack the person who attacked Clayton and got his arm broken.

So they're at the really good friends So munchin Finn are like, okay, so you had a friend here, this other guy that attacked him got the guy who attacked him got attacked, Like why didn't he stay?

But his counselor thought a foster home would be much better?

So who the fuck is this counselor.

He also said that Michael did not but I guess the whole point is to then have a home.

I don't know, I don't know what's better.

I guess he was raped in this home.

He should leave.

Yeah, it's like it's so fucked, really fucked.

That's it's really This episode's so dark.

Once again, cannot believe we tried to entertain people with this live well.

He also keep thinking about how I talked about in the pod.

But remember like the actor I worked with who was like, well everyone gets help, and I go no, no, no, like some people are in the foster care system and he goes, no, you need invest and it's like, you know, his dad owns lions Gate, and so it's like there are people that just like don't even get that this exists, where it's like, yeah, my dad is abusive, so I have to go to this home and then I could also get raped here, and then I'm at this foster home before my permanent home and now I'm dead.

Yeah, like what the fuck?

And then there's people in this world that go, everyone gets help, you need investors.

No one does it on their own.

And it's like, how do we get even people to understand that this is happening and that this is people's true reality and that there's no solutions and that they have all this money and they just think everyone's like that, Like I don't get it.

I don't care how to penetrate these people's brain.

I don't know that you can like teach self awareness or like, you know, I just don't think they just be like I can't see outside themselves.

It should be mandatory Jenny Jones style boot camp for any teen whose family makes more than one hundred thousand dollars, like for one week you have to go Jones, you have to go to boot camp like I don't know, or everyone gets to do a sim like I don't because it's also the separation, like because all these rich and there's someone that I do like following, but I do an'noy me.

They're like any volunteer opportunities Christmas Eve, we'd love to feed people, and it's like, well that's more about you, and why Christmas Eve they have enough volunteers.

I don't know.

It just like right, it bothered me where it's like the rich do this thing during the hall or like we're there, but they separate themselves from these people.

They don't see it at like the we're the semon performative.

Just put your money out, put you throw a check, throw a check at a food bank.

What are you talking about?

And that's also great to volunteer even on the anytime.

I don't want to knock on that, but it just seems strange to only want to do it the most popular day of the year.

To do it like that's confusing.

If you're ultra wealthy too, like to be like does anyone know where I can be photographed serving up bowl?

Of soup to somebody who's hungry.

That's what it is.

It's just like, no, the sign ups are fulled.

For that day.

Yeah, yeah, they got it.

I don't know.

I hope she finds a place and I hope she does it.

But it's like, because even when the I want these people to be aware these people exist, but I feel like they feel.

Separate from these people.

Yeah, how do you make these people feel one with these people that it's like you could have been the you know, like on a fair Baby and then been on the like one small change.

I don't know why I mentioned a fair Baby.

I don't know.

I just don't get it.

Well, there's a hyper individualism that is growing more real by the day in our culture, where people just only care about themselves and and it's like, yeah, that's why they can't put themselves in the shoes of somebody who immigrated here from a worse place and it's just trying to make a better life.

They're like, get out of here, criminal, you know.

It's like all these people they can't put themselves in the shoes of people that don't get help.

They you know, they can't say outside themselves, no, yeah, I don't know how wet it.

Well, no, and I think it's from the Puritans.

Our culture kind of like helped this forever money is virtue or something, and so these people are unvirtuous.

So this young boy like no, and it hurts my I mean he had a friend, Yeah, he did have a friend, but just yeah, all right, I'm sorry.

I just don't get why this guy couldn't have gone after just like a couple adults that Olivia's worked with, we had to throw a kid in there.

It's like so bad, you're right, kill the adults, kill some adults.

Munchin Finn are like, why didn't?

Okay, So the counselor wanted him in the foster home.

This is that's where the spiral came from.

Where It's like there is no good answer because now he's fucking dead.

So it's like, do you want to go to this foster room and be dead or do you want to stay at the place where they raped you?

Okay, So he says that Michael denied seeing Clayton.

Michael Clayton is also kind of tough that you keep kind of saying that by accident.

You're not saying it, but I do keep hearing Michael Clayton.

Which is a movie I still have not seen.

I have to see it.

Maybe i'll watch it a long time.

I should rewatch it.

I don't remember it very well.

People love it.

So finally the adult walks into the room where the boy is and he's sitting on the top bunk, and you know, he's happy to talk and he but he wants to see the badges first, so he knows what's up, and he's on guard.

And he does say that he saw him yesterday and that Clayton was super excited because he got a letter that he won a free computer.

Oh no, and he knew it.

Was a scam, but Clayton was pumped and he brought the letter with him and basically he like didn't want to get jumped on the train.

So we asked if he had any money to lend him, and so he gave him money sweet to be able to take a car and he called the car service from a McDonald's parking lot.

So like, what a cute kid, helpful and has all this information and I hope he finds so good permanent home.

So now we cut to the Barantis residence and this is the victim.

The last victim, the woman, and she never went out alone after the rape that happened to her.

She lost touch with friends.

Her last boyfriend ended up being abusive and then finally she got rid of him after going to a counselor.

And she was doing good.

She was going back to school, and she even won a computer ding ding ding, And she saw the letter and it looked like a sales deal, like a promo, and she took it with her and the mother thanks Benson for helping her daughter.

And you know, it's like sad that Benson did so much to help this family and tried to but yeah, it is the reason why this woman is dead, probably one hundred percent for sure.

So back at the precinct, it's a group meeting.

So Finn and Benson, like mentioned the computer thing, they both connect on that.

Immediately, Belzer gets off the phone with a car service and they have the address he was dropped off at.

So then Craigan is going to go get a warrant and the four of them all go together and they're met with the building manager and he explains he's never met the guy that rents this place.

It all happened over the phone.

He paid six months in advance and it's Avelia Sonobin is like, on the that's the name on the lease and it was a local bank account.

So they go into the office desk boxes and there are designs from promotional materials and brochures you get in the mail, so it looked like the free computer thing.

Then they find the computer papers in the desk, so they're like, oh, so they probably like the victim comes in here, it looks legit, it's an office, and then offers him a drink and then that drink is laced and that's what knocks out the victims.

So they're like, okay, so we do have a crime scene here.

There's glasses, there's the pamphlets, there's everything, and the guy and we know the boy had this address that he gave to the car service.

And the building manager, of course, is like, I'm not responsible.

I'm not responsible.

It's like no one said you were, bro get the fuck out of here.

But then Benson closes the office door and it's one of those like private eye style doors where it's clear and on it there's it says the thing.

It says the letters of the where you're going basically she closes the door and Avilia is Olivia backwards.

So that's exciting.

So she closes the door.

It says Olivia.

Wow.

So now we get a beady Wong moment and George Wang let's go.

So it's three victims, different races, different gender, different age.

This is revenge.

The real target is Benson and he wanted to make it personal.

And you know this person wants her twisting stressed, and George Wang says also, like this person wanted the bodies found, he wanted national attention, he wanted them to be studied.

It's at this federal like you know, crime lab, forest thing, and but I wonder if those are real.

They want to talk about it.

Oh cool, wait, I'm excited, and Benson's like okay, but how does he know so much about the cases?

Did he get into my files?

And Craigan's like, well, the Tina Cordell case said a lot of attention, but like what about the other two.

And then they start being like, well, you did go to like parental visitation meetings, and you did keep helping Carmela, and she's getting defensive, like our job just doesn't just end.

After the court date like, I'm helpful, and Kwang's like, nobody is blaming you, and she screams, you think I led him to these people, so you think I have a stalker.

Okay, It's like, it's not your fault, babe.

Let's go to the files and see who has a grudge.

So George Kwang has one more bit.

So potassium chloride, which was used on the victims is an ingredient in a death row cocktail.

And they were using police restraints, so they had the zip ties, and you know, it's an ex con probably, you know, and so we need to find people that really fucking hate her and our vocal about it.

And then they say, well, let's follow the money.

So we're at the bank of the business account.

Benson and Stabler are on the scene, and the count was opened four months ago.

There's been no activity for thirty days.

The balance is thirteen hundred dollars.

So they basically asked the bank woman like, if there's any activity on this account, please hold a check and call the FBI, and the bank woman agrees to it, but when they walk outside, Benson seems pissed because she's like, what the fuck, why are the FEDS involved?

And Stabler goes, well, they're faster and they're better and if they have issues, then it's on them and not on us.

And she's like, no, fuck that your name wasn't on the door, So who's ass are you covering?

Like what are you doing?

Why are you so buddy buddy with the FBI?

He goes, we're on the same team.

Come on, and then Benson gets a call mid fight and found they found Clayton's dad.

He's in lock up for a drunken disorderly and he's like not believing that his child is dad.

He's blaming them for everything and the rape at the group home and you know that he wasn't with his dad, and they're like, but you were beating your kid, like what do you want us to do?

And that he didn't have enough to eat.

You weren't doing a good job, and the dad asks for a guard.

He goes, I'm done with this.

I don't give a fuck, and then the duo have to just like walk out.

The dad does not want to help, obviously, he's like beating his kid and starving him, so he's not gonna and fuck the police.

I'm sure in his mind because his son did get raped in this group home, not that he.

I don't want to get into it.

Any thoughts on the dad.

No, I just yeah, he's blaming, he's lashing out.

But it is just like Clayton had a really hard life.

Yeah, that feels sad for him.

That's the bottom line.

So now it's like a walk and talk in the streets.

So Benson keeps, of course being the hero.

I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay, and Stablor goes, no, it's not okay, like a low life is out to get you.

Staylor gets a phone call.

We hear him ask how many and then he goes, okay, fine, we'll split up, and he's taking notes.

And so now we have three X cons that we're very vocal about getting revenge on Benson.

So we're gonna go visit them.

So first we start at West one twenty fifth Street.

It's a man in a wheelchair and it's actor Hassan Johnson from the Wire and he's the famous meme.

Do you know the meme that I'm talking about this one?

Yeah, yeah, he's that one.

Okay describes to the people what I did.

Yeah, it's like you you kind of like a.

Stroke, like a beard that doesn't exist, and like kind of look really pensive.

Yeah, so it's so funny what makes moments And that's probably one of the most famous gifts of our generation.

So he so basically, this guy's like, listen, I was high on crack and I don't blame Benson.

You know, I don't blame you Benson for anything anymore.

Ah, my friends are dead or in jail, So like, I'm not even sure what you guys want right now.

And Saylor was like, well, someone's after Benson, and he responds, well, they're not that good since she's still breathing.

And he's over that whole lifestyle.

And he spends time helping the kids to not follow in his footsteps.

They want names, and he does give the details on the cops and the reverend and everyone who helped him, and he's pleasant as fuck, and he wheels off and wishes them luck.

Finn is in the face of a man selling books on the street and when Benson is mentioned, he goes, fuck that bitch.

Is she dead?

And Finn hits him.

I love it, he says.

So he's like, listen, I let them take my manhood away from me.

So I can get the fuck out of prison.

And she shows up and throws a monkey wrench at my parole hearing it wasn't right.

Munch goes, you raped your kniece, that wasn't right, and letting you out wasn't right.

But he goes, I take shots.

I'm fat as fuck, I'm sick, I have giant tits, like I'm not fucking and so Finn says, but do ponytails and Bretts still get you hot?

Fat boy?

That should be on I would buy that s what shirt?

That's the classic?

Like's not in Dramalaney saying, you're telling me this guy gets picked, like gets turned on my little girls in pigtails or something like that.

Yes, classic, that's like a just a classic.

Finn.

Also, I like the idea of you doing a brand deal for chemical castration, you being like the spokesperson of chemical Grustration, Like I love when they bring it up and you're like, that's what I'm talking about.

I mean I want for worse.

I mean that the person that I've become, I can't imagine.

I would like to see an alternate universe without this podcast.

I'm just like a calm, nice girl.

JK but I mean chemical castration.

That's that's my like least controversial take.

I would say, you know what I mean, I'm like, yeah, yeah, executing billionaires, I would say, is at the one end of the spectrum chemical castration somewhere other side, left of center.

So but this guy reminds me very much of meat Loaf and Fight Club physically.

If you're wondering, like what's happening to his body with this mastration.

His name is Robert Paulson.

Yes, okay, okay, but he says, no, sir, he does ponytails and brets do not get him hot.

He's clean, he has no sex drive, and like what you know, when will they leave him?

And Munch says a special kind of surgery.

So you know.

He wants the traditional castration.

He wants the UNIQ model.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so now we have to Now we go to another person.

It's a woman at a flower shop and she's like, I divorced him.

I don't give a fuck, leave me alone.

She's fuming at Benson and Stabler, and she has such skinny eyebrows too, very of the you know, the years of the two thousand and one, like a very f an eyebrows.

She angrily puts together a bouquet, and it's kind of like funny, like watching someone pissed off but putting together flowers.

But she goes, you put an innocent man in prison for seven years.

He didn't commit those crimes.

Leave Eric alone and Saybil goes, listen, we didn't have DNA evidence when we did.

It cleared him.

And she's like, oh, so that makes everything right.

And they just need to know where he is and she says, I don't know, and if I did, I still wouldn't tell you.

So they go okay, and then they're like, well, dumb her phone, we'll see if she reaches out to him and to give him a heads up.

Benson says she's tired and wants to pack it in and I feel like she's lying.

But then she we do just see her resting, but like you for me.

When she says this, I go, oh, she's doing like a side operation.

She's mad at him for like the FEDS or something like, I don't know.

I didn't believe that she was actually tired, But then it cuts to her resting to her in bed yeaheah.

Normally, when she says that she's like, I'm gonna go take some personal time, and she's just fully launching a side investigation.

Yeah, but no, she.

Does go sleep here, but also stablers like, well, no, don't rest, don't rest, Let's go to dinner, and Benson has to go you haven't seen her kids in a while, maybe you should go home, Like she has to push him to go home, but I.

Think he knows she's struggling, Like I.

Get all of this, but even Benson's like, go home with your kids, and she is really sleeping.

No lies here, no secret investigations.

She's like fully just pissed at him this whole episode because she feels like he doesn't have her back with the FBI, and then he's buddying up to the FBI because I don't know.

We're always saying on this podcast, like why don't they just hold can work together and get the job done.

And Benson seems to be really uncharacteristically.

Oh.

I think also, her mom's died recently, so she's in a mood.

It's a mom died mood, Okay, I think so.

I think it's like her mom's died pretty recently, and she's like in a mood season two.

Okay, yeah, this is the top of season three kind of right, like pretty close to the top.

Yeah, yeah, because it's fueah yeah damn.

But Benson's sleeping perfect moonlight on her, and then we hear buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz, continuous door buzzing at four thirty nine am.

It will not stop, keeps buzzing.

Benson asks who it is.

No one answers the intercom.

She's annoyed and says, you have the wrong apartment.

I would be a little more suspicious, but the buzzing does start again.

Girl, you're a detective.

She finally gets it.

She grabs her gun, goes downstairs, and I love her in like pajama pants, tank top gun.

But okay, so she is downstairs and nobody is there.

A toothpick is stuck in the button and it keeps buzzing.

She looks around.

There's a box on the curb with the trash.

It's from a Violi productions or promotions or whatever, and there's an arm sticking out of it.

Fuck.

So then she starts buzzing.

Who is she buzzing?

Did she not bring her key?

I think she's buzzing anybody in the building to like wake them up to call the cops because she didn't bring a phone or something.

No, fine, but go way back in and call the cop.

I don't understand waking up all of your neighbors to look at the dead body.

I question her decision making in this moment.

She could have stress.

She's scared.

Maybe she's right around the corner he's gonna kill her.

She's like, let me back in.

I don't know right or right or right.

So it's an active crime scene.

Now Benson's disassociating.

She's in a cream sweater.

And then Clayton, Derek's father, that's the body, that's the So this guy had a drunken disorderly and now he's in the box dead.

So again it's someone she was talking to that ends up dead.

And then the old the FBI guy from up top is trying to get Scoop and Benson's and Stabler they're being you know, difficult.

She's like, you think if I had something, I wouldn't tell you And he's like, yeah, Like usually we're not that careful when it comes to our own safety, you know how all of us are.

Like, it's weird to see the FBI being nice.

It's usually the other way around, Like I am team FBI, and Sabler goes, my partner knows how to do her job.

And he's like, yeah, I never said she did it.

And he goes, okay, I get it, but she needs to stand down, okay, and she says no, wait, he didn't say it like that.

He goes listen, like, she just needs to stand down.

I get everything you're saying.

It is what it is.

And she says no, and he's like, well, this man was alive until you went to the tombs to question him.

So and Stabler goes, it's too early to point fingers.

But I again, I don't think it is.

And this dude, wait, is this our next march?

I don't need protective custody.

What do you do?

I said no to the protective detail?

Is that is that too weird a shirt?

Let's talk about it's let's brainstorm that.

What's a smoother way to say it?

There must be like a quicker way to be like I don't want that.

Wait, it has protective detail a circle and then an X through it.

I mean I would say I would love a protective detail.

Give me a protector.

Yeah, I would love a protect I would love it all the time.

A productive detail, yeah, start taking detail out of bed, Come on.

I would I would start more fights.

Honestly.

The only time I really don't get engaged is when I know I would lose in a physical fight.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, but not with a productive detail.

If I had protective detail, oh, I'd be starting fights left and right, everywhere shoving.

That's the reality show.

It's Liza, but with a protective detail.

Okay, so okay, this guy's being normally goes I listen, I'm not blaming you, but you can't work like you can't work the case.

She goes off, I don't work for you.

These victims are my cases.

So he goes, all right, you're being stalked.

You need a detail.

She again, No, forget about it.

I'm not a victim.

Like I don't get I don't get it.

I don't get it.

I will never get this mentality.

I don't.

There's macho shit that she They all do this.

Yeah, they all do it, all the lawyers, the judges, everyone, and they always get injured.

Yeah, so she just is basically like someone left a dead body of a man.

I just talked to in a box outside my apartment, and Benson goes, and you are wasting our time.

Okay, let's let's get to work.

Does anyone know who bailed this dude out of the tombs?

And the release form says it was you Benson.

She goes, damn.

So they go to Lonnie bail bonds and this dude flips through some papers and a man named Oliver Benson laid down a g So Benson and Saibler go, well, they make guys and go where's the ID?

He goes, guy paid cash.

He says he doesn't need idea unless property being used for collateral.

You know, they're always on the defensive because they know they're shady motherfuckers.

They ask for a de prescription of the guy, and the guy starts yelling, oh I see so many people I don't blah blah blah, and so Benson goes, okay, well that guy was on federal charges and with capital crime, so yeah, I'll call the fence.

How about that?

And he goes.

He calls her sweetheart, big mistakes.

Shouldn't have done that.

So as soon as Sweetheart runs out of his mouth, they cause a commotion.

Badges up kicking everyone out, and since he didn't get the ID, they start asking for full records on everything and everybody or you're gonna be fuck So he goes, okay, okay, well no, he goes, it's not drug money.

It was one thousand dollars.

He goes, anyone can raise one thousand dollars, So I didn't think it.

Was a big deal.

But he he.

Goes, listen, wait guy average late twenties, early thirties, like there's nothing to him.

Benson's fuming.

So now we're at Craigan's office.

FBI guy knock, knock, knock, and Craigan asks official or off the record.

He says both, So he's like, put Benson on a desk.

Craigan goes, no, she's my best.

She's the best the sective I have.

He says, I don't doubt it, but the bodies were found on federal property, and I can take this case from all of you in any second.

I want to, so fucking buck.

Up, and he goes, and I'll fuck up your file and Craigan says, you can fuck me up with all Like whatever you do, I make choices in life, and I've already made mine.

That's hot, Craigan, that's like standing on business for miss Olivia.

Ben'son.

Yeah.

So he leaves and you know, respect on both ends.

These men are working very well together.

So then Benson and FBI guy make eye contact as he walks out, and Craigan just says, you know, back to work, everyone, no worries.

So he asks any evidence that Eric Plummer called his ex wife.

Munch talks shit about Flowers being a waste of money.

Finn of course has to remind him that is why you are divorced, sir.

And then Finn goes, well, I get everyone flowers, and Munch goes, that's because you have to.

So I don't know.

So Stabler found a forty five minute call to a Baseline labs.

Finn goes, wait, if Plumber works at the lab, that means he also has access to potassium chloride, and Munch jumps in that like one of the victims, though unfortunately had a different drug.

This one the newest one, the dad Bruce, he had pavelin.

I don't know, but the dad's the dad suffered, so the other three did not suffer.

It was just like sleep to death.

And then this guy choked and struggled for two minutes to die.

So Benson says, well, because he's a bad guy and those were innocent people.

Oh the dad, Clayton's dad, not the dad, not the third dad.

Yeah, yeah, the ladies.

Yes, this guy is like this, this purp is handing down a lot of moral judgments through his crimes.

Yeah.

So Benson says, oh, he saw him like a purp and executed him like one.

Craigan says, to check the employees with plumber at this place.

So Creagan goes, Okay, go to the go to the lab, you know, talk to people.

So Craigan reminds Benson to take it easy because she, you know, she's wound a little tight and oh, you worried about something?

She says, pissed and he's like, yeah, your safety, Like we all love you, Olivia, we just don't want you murdered.

And she again says, no protective detail.

I'm not trying to be a hero, but that's what the guy wants.

And Craigan goes, but what if you're next, and she goes, no, he wants me twisting and thinking, not dead.

So Stabler goes, how can you be sure of that?

And she says, because it's working.

So they go to Baseline Labs and he knows nobody under that name.

But when they show the plumber's photo, the guy says, oh, that looks like Norman Weber.

So he does insurance services.

He gets blood you're in samples for physicals, and he goes to you know, Patience Homes.

He says, they have a strict, rigorous screening process with lots of background checks, and Norman passed it.

He's at the Upper West.

Side right now, at an apartment and the suspense the suspender guy looks nervous.

He's like, wait, you know, like one freak could lose us a lot of contracts.

And Sailor goes, oh, no, he's not a suspect or anything like.

We just want to talk to him.

So they haven't call us.

So Huang is back at work and he has like some ideas and wants to like bounce with Benson, and Benson goes, no, he just fucking hates me and he's killing people that I try to help.

And he goes, and how does that make you feel?

She goes, hey, doc, how about you not therapy me?

Thank you very much.

So they bond and they giggle and chat and Benson's like, fuck, he's been planning this for a while.

And Huang's like, well, look, he gave these people a painless death and had them all comforting each other.

They're you know, this is psychological warfare.

And he thinks, like, maybe this dude believes he's freeing them.

You know, they have this miserable existence that you left them in.

And he identifies with them, and he says he sees them all like him, a victim of Benson because you know, he went to Jones and was innocent.

So they're in the balcony loft area and they hear, you know, Eric Plumber on the ground floor, so they go downstairs.

Kragan is greeting him.

Benson looks over the banister and he has a great attorney.

Ned Eisenberg rests in peace and so gets to work right away.

Is he under duress, suspect all that?

Cabot says that it's all that's premature.

It's an ongoing investigation.

And now we can fully see Plumber and it's the brother from Weeds.

His name is Justin Kirk and he loves days working.

I love him too, and I wonder if it's just on that show.

He wasn't that Animal Practice show?

Yes, whatever, And he's always working, and I think he's attractive, and he kind of looks like Harry Connick Junior, who I don't think is he.

Kind of does.

He's like I had such a crush on him from Weeds.

Yeah, I think he was on I think he was on Blackish as like a sneakerhead guy, like yeah, Modern Family.

He works, he works, Yeah, he's working.

I love when I see him pop up because I think he's so hot.

And then I always think about him in this episode and go, you're also freaky, freaky, And so he's stoneface.

It's really funny.

He should be a meme.

So funny the stoneface he gives counsel requests.

Benson leaves and Munchinfin are like, oh yeah, let's go down to the bar.

So they take her to the bar.

Stabler leaves and it's meeting time.

The lawyers like, he went through hell in prison.

He would never want to go back, and the last time he worked with you guys, he ended up in jail for a crime he did not commit.

You have to leave him alone.

Cabot's like he had a fair trial.

And he was convicted by a jury of his peers.

He wasn't singled out by Benson, and Plumber goes, have you ever been to prison, arrested, cuffed, printed, photographed?

I was beaten, raped, and tortured.

I finally learned to stop screaming.

Do not minimize what I went through by telling me I got a fair trial.

Good point, and Cabot is silenced.

Stabler asks why he changed his name, and he's like, I wanted a fresh start and he finally felt safe.

And then the cops show up to his job, like how long does he have to pay for a crime he did not commit.

Sabler is not deterred and keeps asking questions, what drugs do you have access to?

None?

I'm at a lab.

I'm not at a hospital, Like what the fuck?

And Stabler keeps pushing about the potassium chloride and Plumber says, I don't know what that is.

He directs his lawyer to show his work records for the last two weeks, but lives alone, so you know, nighttime, no alibi.

They leave Craigan, Cabot and Stabler chat.

Cabot's like, listen, we need to prove the syringe was in his hand.

If we want to send him up again, like we fucked up.

We sent him an innocent man to prison.

We have to be one hundred percent this time.

Sailor likes him for the crime, and so does Craigan.

So Craigan sends him to talk to people that sing, sing and see if we can get more scoop.

Now we're at the bar and.

The the detectives are splitting a picture and you know, they're trying to cheer Benson up, and Munch is like, it was a good bus.

You did everything right.

They have a little discussion.

How most people are home alone at night in the last few weeks, you know, like if someone asks you Thursday this time.

Where were you?

You might know because you have a Google calendar.

I had to look at my calendar, though I don't know off the top of my head.

Yeah, I guess you can just have a fake calendar and lie, but at least you'd have alibi.

Yeah, but like most people, if you do live alone, you're usually home alone.

Like what do you do if you're a single person where people think you did a crime and you were home, Like, how do you prove it?

I wondered, Like Roku.

I know, did you order a pay per view?

Like that used to be the big thing was like did you order pay per view in your hotel if you're by yourself?

Because now but that doesn't even matter.

It's like I can order Uber Eats and leave, Like, I guess there's a sure there's a camera in my lobby.

There's a security camera.

I guess I could prove that I came in, But then I would have been able to leave off my fire escape if I really wanted to commit the crime.

Yeah, yeah, what do you?

So that's Benson's point in this discussion, like, you know, months you're probably home alone with no underoing what you did.

And so you know, she put she helped put it in a sent man away and that and and she's a good person, so it weighs on her.

And the evidence was weak, it was circumstantial.

She's spiraling, and Finn goes, fuck you sound like a legal aid lawyer that's embarrassed.

And she goes, he's a victim, Like what do you guys want from me?

And Munch says, but if he's your guy, he's a predator, not a victim.

And Benson says, we blame all kinds of people for creating monsters.

Why not ourselves?

Good point.

So she downs her beer and goes outside.

She's in a red scarf.

She's walking, there's footsteps behind her.

A man is following her.

She spirals around and pulls a gun on a man who tells her to stay calm and that he's FBI.

So they're tailing her.

Some more guys run out.

It's a protective detail, and she's like, I told the FBI no, and he goes, this was an FBI, this was stabler.

She's stunned, so she goes and wakes his ass up.

Ding dong, bitch, wake up.

So he starts defending his actions before she even says a word.

She says, only the rat squad puts cops on other cops.

And she says that she deserves better than that.

He says, and he goes, I did what I had to do.

This man is murdered four people.

She says, when you can't trust your partner, it's time to get a new partner, and goes right to Cabot to scream at her.

So she's like, why aren't you getting Warrens, you dumb bitch, And she's like I don't know, if you remember, we did put an innocent man in prison, so it's going to be harder to just get a warrant.

And she's like, I swear I saw him.

I swear he is stalking me.

And she says, well, I don't know he was in our interview room, so I don't know if he could have been there, and then uh, and Cabbot goes, it's also still circumstantially, he could just be.

In the neighborhood.

And then Cabot's like, how many drinks did you have?

And I mean, Benson does not like that.

Obviously her mom died of alcoholism.

Yeah, she's pissed, like she looks shocked for like like seconds, and then looks pissed and then she slowly spins to release the anger, like she's so angry, she just to spin around, and then it's wet eyes and anger, and then it takes her a few moments and then she goes, I wasn't drunk, and she walks out.

Craigan has Olivia in his office and he doesn't out she saw him, but she is not acting right, and she goes, you know you know what, you know what I have vacation time and I want distance and I want time off and Crane goes, if you need it, take it as of now you're out.

She says, thank you, she leaves, and so now only the men are left in the center precinct to get to work.

So what's the sing sing of it all is he started a lot of fights and that's to get in the hole, and Finn says that's a good idea because then nobody can get you.

And the only visitor he had the whole time was his ex wife.

They wrote to each other daily even after the divorce, and he had a cell mate named Russell Williams who's actually at Rikers right now awaiting another murder trial, so kind of exciting.

And he I don't know why I said that he wants a deal, but maybe we can chat and see what's up.

But he is like a repeat murderer offender.

But the DA in charge is like, not letting Cabot do this, and she goes, whatever, he killed a drug dealer who gives a fuck like instead of life, give him twelve to fifteen.

And the DA is like, what you don't get to put a value on whose life has?

More?

Like what are we talking about?

And Cabot's just like, we need to catch this guy who'd like dumped a ten year old dead boy on rotting corpses like, come on, let's so this guy will get twenty five.

Let's go, and so we go.

The guy gives in, so we're gonna go talk to him.

So this this killer goes, so, what did Eric do to make you guys so willing to grab your ankles?

I like that?

Whoa?

And so the old guy goes, we're wasting our time.

Fuck you, I'm out of here.

He starts to leave, but Williams stands up and says that Eric had a thing for a female cop, that he talked about it NonStop, and Cabot asks for proof, and he goes, what you think I had a recorder?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Kabot goes, yeah, but your word means nothing, and he says, how about this?

How about hand delivered letters?

So basically this is the old prison express.

But I don't know how that.

Okay, so explain this to me.

So he says, so Williams, this guy would hand these letters to his old lady, and that the old lady would hand it to his wife, and it would avoid the warden.

Is it because you snuck it into her?

Like do they not search you when you do visitation?

Or you're allowed to give your wife a letter?

Like why would the warden not see that letter?

Like I wonder what that vibe is.

I don't know, I didn't I don't get that.

I don't know the normal mail way the worden is reading.

So then he says, if you're thinking like that, he spilled all this and I'm just some guy.

Can you imagine what he told his old lady.

So finally they got the warrant for the letters, so they're at Eric's house and that means they got their warrant because they found two dozen letters at the ex wife's house and that could so much evidence that it can actually get her to be an accessory to a crime.

And there's pictures of Olivia, newspaper clippings, and then under the floor tile in the kitchen they find the chemicals that were used, so they can finally arrest him.

So the boss is pissed and it's like, leave us alone.

Norman told me what happened, get out of here.

He would exonerated.

And then while he's like screaming, fighting the detectives about like not wanting to help them find Norman.

Because he is an innocent man that was put in prison, it's easy to take his side.

He spills that the girl cop was already there, so Olivia aka this is when she lies about her time off, she already got this information and was given the address to the patient that's whose house there in So now Stable has to run.

Benson goes and buzzes and gets led up to an apartment and she hears a gun shot fuck, and then the door opens.

It's a curly haired woman with a gun to her head, and he's like, come in, come in, and she says I can't, and he's like, so basically, the curly haired woman goes, he knew that you were coming, So he says to tell you that all the other people didn't suffer, but that she won't be so lucky, and then he pulls her inside, so she's like, out of you, and Benson then has to run inside to help this woman.

So she goes, it's between us, let her go, it's just us, and he says, how does it feel to have your credibility shattered and life in ruins?

And She says it sucks, and he says I was innocent.

She says, you were, but now you've killed four innocent people.

He goes, no, three innocent people and one child abuse her and she says why did you choose them?

And he goes they were suffering and they needed their suffering to end, and who was going to help them?

You?

And Benson says, sorry, what happened to you?

I really am.

I can't turn back the clock, but I can testify for you on your behalf and I can admit an open court.

I am responsible for all of this.

He laughs in her face there's not going to be a trial.

And the woman's crying.

There's still a gun to her head, and Benson asks again, like, please let her go.

Let's talk about it.

He goes, there's nothing to discuss.

She says, please let's talk, because don't think I won't fucking kill you, and he says, no, I'm counting on it, Detective Benson, and he pushes the woman down, gun to her head and she screams, drop your weapon, Drop your weapon.

He says there are no bullets in this gun, but he acts like he's going to shoot her, and Benson does murder him.

Bang bang, he's dead.

Stabler Munch walk in right behind her right after the shooting.

Finn is there as well.

Stabler tells her it's okay.

He had no bullets in the gun though, so her eyes wet up.

She's so mad, and Stabler says let's go, and she says, I've got to give my statement.

He says i'll take you.

Benson says, you leave me alone and walks off.

So now she's home, She's in a sweatsuit, it's raining outside.

She's looking out at the rain.

Knock knock, knock, knock, knock, knock.

She won't answer the door.

Then the phone ring, she's not answering that either.

There's a tear down her face.

And then so we watched Stabler leave like her apartment and shuts his little flip phone.

And that's Dick Wolf.

Baby.

It's a fucking wild one.

It's a wild one because there's another one, you know, the biker one with the fake DNA where they set Olivia Olivia, but he shows up to fight her and kill her.

So I always get confused between the two.

But yeah, it sucks that she had to shoot him and he had the plan.

I mean, it was a sue it was.

It was a suicide mission.

It was.

Honestly, it's a surprising that there's not more episodes about men like blaming Olivia for their own crimes and trying to get her because we see how short the sentences are for some of these rapists.

So they're gonna get out and they're looking for someone to blame him.

Why not Olivia Benson who got in their face and sent them to jail.

But it's fucking crazy.

You know what the saddest part about this, these fucking crimes is that all of these people were like having such a fucking hard time in their lives, and then they thought they were getting a new computer, and they just went to this place to pick up a new fucking computer, like that little kid who's probably so psyched his new computer and then lights out.

I just fucking can't with this guy.

And he thinks he's like the guard.

He thinks he's like the angel of death, and he's helping people die because they're miserable.

Don't offer them a fucking free computer.

Let them figure it out.

Well, I think it's also because he wanted to die, so you like assumed they all did.

Yeah, yeah, probably that's true.

Okay, so let's get into the crime.

Originally we did not think that this episode had a crime attached.

But but the way is no barrier to entry, so anyone can there's one.

Yeah, Wikipedia is like could write that is it?

Yeah, but it could write that every single one is based on like Ted Bundy, and it has.

I mean there's one that it said it was based on, which is the crime of Eddie Mattos, The case of Eddie Mattos, who I did research and found out he was this guy who in a chase after an arm robbery at McDonald's in New York City, he pushed a police officer into an air shaft, killing him and went to jail.

I don't really know what any of that has to do with what we just watched, so I'm not going to be reporting on that case.

But if somebody could go in and take that out of the wiki, that'd be very helpful.

I don't have a log in, but let's start out with body farms, okay, because I did google body farms so that you don't have to because the pictures are unforced.

The first body farm was also known as the Forensic Anthropology Center at the Anthropology Research Facility in Knoxville, Tennessee, at the University of Tennessee Knoxville, where my brother in law lives.

And this was founded in I guess the facility was established in nineteen eighty one when the first body was donated, but the body farm working with the FBI started in the late nineties because as of like twenty nineteen or so, they were celebrating twenty years of this project.

And they basically have a course there for agents in the FBI called Recovery of Human Remains.

It's one of the most popular courses.

And this is basically just an outdoor site two and a half acres where human remains are buried with they're donated bodies.

That's why it's so wild that they found these like three bodies in the episode that are not one of theirs.

They're left out theried, they're partially covered, they're subjected to these different elements.

And where they get these bodies, they're donated to science.

It's a science.

It's science, or it's like I want there is it?

Is it?

Because if I.

Want to be in a museum, I want to be in the body's exhibit.

I don't want to be at a body farm, Like, can you pick what science it's for, Like, I don't want to be at a loser medical No.

I know, you're like, I'm going to just let cops like brush my body off, Like I don't know.

Yeah, you're right, I don't know how the process.

Because remember the woman that was like shot off into space.

We covered that, Yeah, we did.

People are really stretching the boundaries of the definition of science, it feels, but some of them are going to this rec and you know, it does help law enforcement study how bodies break down and decompose under different conditions.

I mean, like I don't think Melinda Warner would have been able to figure out the whole speeding up of the deal.

I mean she finds people indoors most of the time, but this is for specific like finding bodies outside, like in nature and how nature interacts with these different because sometimes we've seen where they've made a mistake and they're like, well, they thought the time of death was this time, but they didn't account for the fact that it was uncharacteristically freezing that time of year.

Uh, and the body had been actually killed earlier and had been preserved by the cold.

So, I mean, I guess it is good for working with law enforcement.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Well, because this reminds me of the forensic files that I really love, where it's like they are able to solve the crime because of the maggots.

Yes, you know, what was in a stomach or like whatever, like, yeahs are really.

I like that.

I like it.

I just don't want my body to be included.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't.

I don't know.

I mean, I'm happy to go to medical students or whatever, but that would be like a really funny yeah, if the body is in the body's exhibital, Like that's a funny cartoon to me.

Yeah, one being like, oh I look gross.

I don't know.

Okay.

So the FBI Laboratory began sending their guys to the body Farm, which is what they're calling this place in the late nineties to train them in investigating outdro crime scenes.

Heather True, who was.

A special agent for the FBI's Evidence Response Team who helped organize the course, said quote, one of the things that students learn here is the forensic anthropology method.

It's based on years of archaeological science concepts and methods to recover not only the evidence and the remains, but also the information and context of what is in those burials.

So it's interesting there are.

Now seven of them besides the one in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Listen up, is there one near you?

Western Carolina University in Kiloe.

Sorry, you're you're going to message me that I'm saying that wrong.

Kialawi Kloe, North Carolina, Texas State University in San Marcos, Texas, sam Houston State University in Huntsville, Texas.

Southern Illinois And University in Carbondale, Illinois, Colorado, Masa University and Grand Junction, Colorado.

And the University of South Florida in Tampa, Florida.

That's obviously where like Dexter type people would go because you know, it's it's hotter there.

You got to investigate what the heat does to these bodies, you know.

Yeah, So that's that's the body farm.

That's just a little bit of extra info on the body farm.

I have a couple I have a couple of articles in my sources in the show notes.

Should we guys' work on If you're interested, where we go?

Well, when you go home, we meet in Carbondale.

Where's that tour the body farm in Illinois?

Though?

Where?

How far is Carbondale from where you?

Oh, Southern Illinois University.

I don't really fine, yeah, like five hours or two hours?

You know, I got family near Tampa.

I'm always ready to go back to Sarasota.

I mean I want to go to a body farm.

I wonder what it will be like.

I don't know if I want to see that.

And now I'm looking at the bones.

I don't know if I need to go.

When I first googled it, I remember when I put in our live show in Cleveland, I said, don't google body farms, like it's really not good.

But okay, this is another case that the as we said, boundaryless.

Wikipedia said that this is based on I don't think it is, but why not hear about kind of an interesting crime.

I don't think another episode of SPU is really based on this either.

And I had not heard of this guy?

Uh the who is Graham Young aka the Saint Albans Poisoner and Graham Frederick.

I'm on redit, I'm on redit?

Uh uh?

Well, Also, if you're just an unclaimed body, they'll they'll throw you in there, Yeah, like a John Doe, which is so crazy because don't they go back to John Doe's years later when they try to like break cold case.

Maybe they don't.

But if no one claims a body, right, and if you die your natural causes, like it's not a case.

It's not like a you know, ef, no one claims your body.

You just died of a heart attack or something.

And they need all race, gender and body types to know what everything affects.

Yeah, yep' the Yeah, it's the most diverse place when the body out here, we're all equal except in decomp rates, which I'm sure are varying.

Okay.

So, Graham Frederick Young is.

Also known as the Tea Cup Poisoner, which sounds like sort of like adorable, like there's a I tried to do watch something called Murder in a Tea Cup, which sounds so cute and like a little Angela Landsberry style murder.

But it's on some BBC service that I didn't want to pay for, like a streaming service for the BBC.

But this Graham Frederick Young was an English serial killer who murdered his victims by poisoning.

Yeah, and he was, and so I guess what they're comparing it to is that this guy poisoned these people to die.

But that's the only connection, is the poison, Like it's not really I don't think this guy, you know, there was no other connections in terms of wrongful imprisonment or wrongful conviction.

Or anything like that.

Getting back at a cop.

I think the rest of that all came out of Neil Baar and Co's head.

So and actually this episode was written by I think Judith McCreery, and she is one of the has some of the most the darkest SVU episodes under her belt, and I feel like we tried to get her for this podcast and she said no, thank you, but I would, you know, love to know what's going on in that little brain.

Young loved poison.

This guy was just into poison.

Like even as a kid, he would poison his friends and schoolmates and relatives and eventually a teacher got suspicious and did call the police.

He played it guilty.

He was just like yep, and these were three non fatal poisonings.

At the age of fourteen.

He gets sent to Broadmoor Hospital, which I know you have researched because I think Jimmy Saville.

There was something in the Jimmy Savile case I had to do with broad More.

It's like this infamous high security psychiatric hospital in Crowthorne, Berkshire, England, and we've talked about it before.

It's had very high profile killers in the UK I think have gone there.

Young was among the youngest inmates ever sent to broad More at age fourteen, and he had very strict parameters on his release, like it had to be petitioned through like a government official that he'd be released.

And he apparently.

Also at some point confessed to killing his stepmother through poison, but that was never like outright proven, but it was never linked, but he confessed to it.

Doctors at the facility.

Determined that he was psychopathic, you know, he had no developed sense of right or wrong or any morals, and he liked to use two poisons called thallium and antimony, and doctors recall him saying stuff like I am missing my antimony, I miss the power it gives me.

And not shocking that a fourteen year old psychopath also loved Nazis.

He was reading up on Hitler.

He even grew a little Hitler's stash at one point, this guy was a big fan.

Okay, he probably would have loved modern day America.

He left Broadmore in nineteen seventy one at the age of twenty one.

So yeah, I don't know if I said when this all went down initially, but so yeah, he went to broad Moore in the in the mid sixties and he's out at nineteen seventy one at age twenty one.

So he's been in there now for seven years.

I think he had tried to get out at five years and the doctors were like no, he like, doesn't have any remorse.

But then somehow at seven years he convinced some doctor that he was completely changed.

We've seen it before that he was changed and he didn't covet poisoning people anymore, and he wasn't obsessed with poison.

But supposedly he did tell a nurse quote, when I get out, I'm going to kill one person for every year I've spent in this place.

So somehow that's not going to help you get out.

Yeah, but they got him out because nobody listens to nurses, as we've also discovered on our podcast, And he got a factory job where he promptly started poisoning his coworkers.

He ended up immediately immediately he killed them, he would yeah, yeah, he killed two of them.

He caused several serious illnesses in other ones, and even at his job, people were like starting to get suspicious because they were like, oh, we're all getting like sick, and you're not, like so if this is a virus, you're maybe a carrier of it or whatever.

But I don't think any of them knew that he was this fourteen year old psychopath at the time in his past, in his you know, a grown up fourteen year old psychopath.

There's now twenty one.

So he gets convicted of two counts of murder and two counts of attempted murder.

In nineteen seventy two, they get him for these factory poisonings and he is sentenced to life, and most of his sentence he starts out at Parkhurst Prison, where he died in nineteen ninety at the age of forty two.

So he was in prison for eighteen years.

But that's pretty young.

And he died of a heart attack, and he had no history of heart disease, so some people think he either took his own life or he was possibly murdered by fellow inmates or staff at the prison who didn't feel safe around him because he was this fucking psychopath with like no you know.

But interestingly his case became very well.

Known and they should actually do an SVU based on the s crime.

Yes, they should.

Definitely not this episode putting in my idea for my specscript.

Yeah, like this guy was fully rightfully convicted, but it it sparked a lot of debate in the UK over releasing offenders who are suffering from mental illness, like they were just letting people out, you know.

And then so very soon after his initial conviction in seventy two hours after they said, the British government announced two inquiries into the issues surrounding this guy's case and the general treatment of inmates with mental health issues and their releases and stuff like that.

So the Butler.

Committee ended up being formed and that led to widespread reforms and mental health services, and then the Poisons Act of nineteen seventy two put harsher restrictions on the purchase of deadly poisons.

And uh, because it was I guess pretty easy for this guy to just jump on in someplace and get poisons and his life inspired a nineteen ninety five movie called The Young Poisoner's Handbook, which I've never.

Heard of and I don't recognize anyone that's in it, but it's on there on IMDb.

Then wildly in two thousand and five, a sixteen year old Japanese high school student was inspired by Young.

She had read a lot about him and was like very taken by him.

Poisoned her mother slowly over time, giving her increasing doses of thallium, which is one of the poisons that Young used to use, and recorded her mother's suffering on an internet blog like diary entries of like today mom, mother's legs are not working, and this and that, and something I read about it briefly was that she used a Japanese word in her blogs that is, like it's the word I, but it's like for male, for only a man would say it.

So they said that that could have been further proof of her trying to kind of like impersonate Graham Young a little bit, like she's writing from the point of view of like a male poisoner, because she obviously something.

And what did she pretend like Munchausen vibes that it was like either her mom was just ill or she straight up was like blogging how she was poisoning her.

She was just blogging how she was poisoning her.

And there are you can like read in my show notes I put oh, I'm yes, uh for sure.

It was really hard to find anything about this after her initial like discovery, like I'm sure because it was covered in Japan, and like I don't think the US and the UK really like I found it in the Times online and then it was there was also a Guardian, So I think UK publications were covering it, but I don't think they covered like her trial.

I couldn't even find if the mom died or not.

Like what I found was the mom went into a coma in two thousand and five, and what I found was that as of two thousand and six, she had not regained consciousness.

But I couldn't find anything because their names are not in this, either the mom or the daughter.

Their names are not in the it's just the area of the girls from is Shizuoka.

So there's like just an area that she was in in ural Japan.

I guess.

Yeah.

So in her one of her first entries, she talks.

About Graham Young and says, this is the autobiography of a man I respect he murdered someone at the age of fourteen.

And then like another entry is like, my mother will go to hospital tomorrow and nobody has yet found out what the cause is.

To my regret, she is not covered by good insurance, so life will be a little difficult.

And yeah, she's not saying that she did in the entry.

She doesn't seem to be saying that she did anything.

But one of her entries says, to kill a living creature, the moment of sticking a knife into something, the warmth of the blood, the little sigh, it is all a comfort to me.

So she's going through some kind of like she's having some kind of like murderous impulses or whatever.

And she's you know, infatuated with this guy, at least his work, Graham Young, And she started doing this and this was like in five This was like twenty years ago svus on TV when this is going on, And yeah, her brother turned her in.

Her brother turned her in, and I just don't know what happened to her.

I'm sure she either went to mental institution or but I could not find any more recent stuff on her and yeah, Like I was like trying to type in all these keywords being like mother survive, and it's like there's no indication that she died.

But also it's like I can't read Japanese and I don't have access to these outlets over there, so and there's no names.

You know, they keep everybody private, so there's no name for her.

But very dark and that's that's that.

That's what I found on Graham Young the Saint Albans poisoner aka the teacup poisoner.

And if you have this BBC streaming service, you can watch Murder in a tea cup if you'd like.

But that's yeah, the slow poisoning and watching huh yeah, like and these poisoning seemed like they made people sick for a really long time.

They're like they made a point to say it's potassium chloride in the episode where it kills them quickly and like rather painlessly.

I think, yeah, and so obviously very different.

But the poisoning seems to be the only connection here, and I we had I don't think this is connected to another SVU, so I just thought I.

Would talk about it here anyway, of course.

Yeah, but let's get into our post mortem.

I mean.

This episode poisoning fucked me though, this poisoning of it all.

Yeah, poisoning and watching it, like.

That's really psychotic, right, that's not just like I want, I have the blood lust of like taking someone's life quickly and like, you know whatever, that's really like you want to watch somebody sick and get like to be suffer and be sick.

And then help them.

It might be like a much risen by proxy.

But she didn't even want attention.

Well she did shut a blog, of course.

That girl.

Yes, But Graham Young, I mean there was no there was no indication that he then wanted to then use that for help.

Like he just liked the power.

He liked the idea that he could just slip it to anyone.

You can get so close to someone, you know, like there's a physical force with weapons and attacking someone physically with a weapon to kill them that a fourteen year old.

Boy might not have.

But with poison you could take down anybody, anybody of any size, of any level of power.

Like he just probably felt like he's really pro poisoning Cam.

I'm really fucking into poisoning now.

No, it's like terrifying.

Also, I'm sure the kid had like no idea when he was fourteen what the right doses were.

Luckily he didn't kill anybody, but then when he was twenty one he did.

Well.

Yeah, it's I saw something online where a neighbor was annoyed with the noise of another neighbor or the smell or something, and they caught him on camera like going in and under the door, like what is.

It called the door jam?

Yeah, door, that's weird.

Yeah, so doing what like chemicals like lad like h like putting in poisoned air in the thing, or there was one forensic file the neighbor with the diet like poison the diet coat.

Like the poisoning is crazy' right.

You don't know where it's gonna come from.

Anyone could do it.

You're living your life and these people are sick os.

Yeah, Like anti freeze poisoning used to be a big thing, but then they change the way it tastes, so now it's not sweet like gatorade anymore, or whatever.

It looks good.

Can they stop making things look good.

It's a gorgeous color, of course, I want to drink it.

When I see that color, I want to chug it.

Yeah, like fuck lemon lime right into my veins.

I love that shit.

But this do you feeling he's a hero because he poisoned these people.

And it's like, I don't know, Clayton could have had like a good life.

I mean it's hard.

I guess the woman never left it went out again, you know, alone after her assaults and going back to what we say all the time, like.

But she could have, like I don't know, she could have like recovered and healed and had a good like life.

He didn't need to snuff her out because she had gone through a tragedy.

Yes, And it also just lends to like we care so much about rapists in their future and not what rape does to people long term.

And you know this woman just her whole life was changed.

Yeah, and that was that.

I don't know.

But I love this actor.

I like the episode.

I like Benson pissed.

I feel, yeah, we need a little turmoil, we need the we need the kids fighting once in a while.

Yeah.

But I like Craig and stepping up.

I like Craig and being like a hottie.

Yeah, it's funny.

It's like they had no idea how long this show was going to last, or that Benson and Stabler would be together for twelve seasons, and at the beginning of three, it's like, yeah, they still are like not trusting each other, right, Like there's still it's been two seasons, but they're still not I give you my kidney first level.

Noo.

But season two already happened with the with U Blue Diamond Phillips.

No, that's the season seven.

That's not season seven.

Really yeah, because that's when she's pregnant, remember, No, Yeah, season seven fault.

I Am Dead, the one of WHOA So they built their love Why did I think that was season two?

I don't know, but I mean, shit does happen in season two?

It's like Diane Neal like what was Yeah?

Of course, yeah too.

I mean season seven, damn.

Season two has like you know, countdown man Hunt, like there's some peak oh my god, peak scourge.

Like they have just watched a Chadlough interview this morning in bed someone asked him about the hilaryous swink oscar thing, and he goes, no, I felt bad for her.

They like rushed them.

I didn't think about it.

You know, she thinks she would think me all the time, you know, like it was a different I don't know, I mean guests of the pod.

I mean we're like the most star studded podcast I know about.

Yeah, Oh my god, I watched Blake DeLong and Elsbeth.

Oh you I've been seeing his posts about it.

Yeah, I commented he liked my post.

I did.

I used emoji's.

It was a thrill.

But you know, him saying that we talked to character actors and people made me proud and happy.

But he was it was a great episode.

There was Lana Condor was in it.

He was talking about her.

Yes, yes, yes, it was a good episode.

It was all It was based on Bill Belichick.

I don't know if he mentioned that time.

Oh no, it is a ripped from the headlines like Bill Bella check episode.

No fucking way, yeah, because I have not noticed that in any of the other elsbeths that they're ripped from the headlines.

Does she does the young girlfriend like kill the older guy?

Do you want me to say?

No, don't tell me, don't spoiler.

No, it's a half, it's twenty two minutes.

Just fucking watch it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, watch that's or not?

Do you want gonna say it whatever you want.

No, no, no, don't don't spoil it for the Elsbeth heads that listen.

Okay, but this episode, I don't know what our takeaways are, like we I mean, I think what our takeaways are is that.

We do need to get like and god, DNA evidence came to play yea.

But also they said they prisoned him in nineteen ninety three, and I thought DNA was around in the eighties.

Or ladies was not as employed until the nineties.

I feel like it was like a round, but it was like harder do you kind of like they didn't have the tech I get.

I don't know well because I'm always annoyed about circumstantial evidence, and it's like he did it, and it's like, no, you can't go off that.

You can't.

You have to fucking prove it in a court of law that someone did it.

You're sending them to prison to be fucking raped and be in Yeah, you know, like well, the first USA DNA exoneration was in eighty nine, so you could imagine that that also in eighty nine, there was like like a line you know, of people to prove like they all were like, yeah, check mine, check, like, you know whatever, I'm gon to become so into body farms, like just Reddit is robust is their merch.

When I died, donate me to a body farm.

Whould you guys wear that on a shirt?

See you on the body farm?

Rip me?

I mean, I think, honestly, we need to be offering more.

My takeaway is that, like, yes, this guy like went completely nuts after he got out of prison, but it's a bit of a It is like a representation of how like the world is very harsh to people that get out of prison, like once you're exonerated, like the trauma that you've had in jail for also being wrongfully imprisoned is like real and that's not dealt with.

And then he goes out and tries to like ruin the life of the cop that put him in jail.

Ya, killing all these people you.

Know, rented a whole office space.

Yeah, he really went to a lot of trouble this time.

And the empty the no bullet and the gun.

That's yeah, that's the final fun.

These guys like to do a final fuck you.

Yeah.

Yeah, because he knew what she was gonna do, she'd have to like she's not wrong, but yeah, he did have a gun to this woman's head.

And the door.

The door scene is iconic, like this is this That's why we picked it for the live show because that door scene is so iconic and fun and like, oooh, you forget that.

It's like the craziest episode the Olivia the Alien.

Yeah, like it's I think that's why we're like, oh, fun, the door, let's do it.

And then it was like, oh my god, these kids are zip tied.

What's happening?

A rape at the foster room?

You know, like it's too much av Low.

Oh my gosh.

Yes, I completely mix this one up with with the I mix this one up with the guy who what's the.

Thing about the snow?

The snow shoveling in the heart?

My dad's out here shoveling snow non stop.

I told them to heart attacks.

That's why why people have heart attacks.

Be careful, all right, let me talk snow.

Be careful, don't be a hero.

But he's so cute.

Yeah, I get this episode mixed up with Scavenger.

He got the snow, get it?

Okay, they're sending me more photo.

I just want them to be cares.

But I don't know if the look your.

Dad lives to just show how physically strong he is.

I know.

Now they're showing me the icicles.

Oh wow, that's the thing.

It's also icy their eighty seven.

He can't see out of one eye, Like, you can't have him be out there shoveling.

Get out.

My nephew should do it because he's had heart problem.

And I keep thinking, but I don't want to scare that.

I don't know what to do.

Yeah, oh, it's not like you'll listen to me.

He keeps working at the pool.

He has respect for none of us, That's.

What I mean.

It's like, yeah, he's like, I can still lifeguard, I can still shovel.

Did you see the Instagram video?

It's like a dad welcoming a new boyfriend, like meeting a new boyfriend and him going, my daughter, they she does not respect men.

Now I'm telling you what you're getting into, and like it's a really it's a funny, and keep that is funny.

Listen.

But also, but then I was wondering if like Benson stays mad at him at Stabler and the next episode is like the cocaine baby formula, and I don't know if they were fighting then like, I don't remember that.

Baby thing, and that one always seemed to just get over shit real quick.

Yeah, like the next one is that one, and then Rooftop and like, yeah, they are working, but I did like in this one, she's like, go fucking see your family, you dead beat dad.

Uh.

But yeah, I always get this episode mixed up with Scavenger, which is the one with the guy who's leaving them all the little the little clues, you know.

I think that a violi or whatever is part of that, but it's not.

It's just the door.

It's the one clue.

And then the box with the.

Body, Like that guy in the Scavenger does leave like deliveries and stuff, but it's not the same.

So freaky, but I kind of like those they remind me of, Like these episodes remind me.

Of what Erica Christian, Oh, that's oh Scavenger.

Yes, okay, wait, am I did I say the wrong one?

No?

You said the right one, but maybe not No the box with the.

Yeah, the Stavenger is that one the one I'm thinking of snature signature.

It's an honest mistake.

Honestly, those words are basically the same.

But I do get really like I get how like really smart people feel and do end up kind of being snobby or like annoying.

Because anytime I can like name an episode or something SVU off the top of my head in an insane way and impress people makes me feel good.

Yeah.

When people give you that look like wow, that's crazy that you knew that, You're like, well, I feel so proud I do.

It means I'm finally retaining information.

You know.

It's like after years, it's like so hard to retain facts.

Yeah.

But yeah, good ap, good fun, Happy New Year.

Yeah, guys, Happy New Year.

Everybody have a great I hope you guys all have a great night tomorrow night.

Or you stay home and do fucking nothing and you're having a nice little time off.

That's the new thing.

I mean, we're all obsessed with phones, but it is like people stay and or maybe I was just young, so I could never have imagined and lots of people were staying in on New Year's and enjoying each other.

Yeah.

I think sometimes you want to do a big do it up New Year's with the sequins, and other times you just want to like not even watch the ball drop and just go to sleep.

I don't know.

We all contain multitudes.

Do whatever your heart tells you to do.

And if any of you before we get into sister peg Kiara, sorry, I'll try not to interrupt you.

I am seeing the Backstreet Boys in Las Vegas at the Sphere on.

Oh my god, knock on wood, you know.

But yeah, that's what's happening.

That's really fun because I said something at the Sphere, but nothing's really called out to me, I know, And then everyone was like, oh, go to the Wizard of Oz and I was like, yeah, maybe, but I'm waiting for somebody.

I really love to do the Sphere, but not everyone's.

You know, white has been the thing, but it's New Year's so I'm like, I kind of want to silver and I have silver sneakers, but I don't want to look different.

So yeah, I'm trying to figure out what millennium.

Oh, I actually reached out to my stylist, so that's humiliating, but I say, I have a Backstrip Boys concert to attend in Vegas and I need.

Some help because I want amazing cool.

I want to look cool if I'm going to be running around that's so fun.

Wait, so you're going from wedding to Vegas, and then the next day we'll lounge and then the next day I'm seeing Jlo in Vegas.

Correct, So I need a j Loo outfit and it's free tickets.

I'm not supporting Jlo just saying that she doesn't tip.

I would never support but I guess you know, Brian's and qNaN whatever.

But yeah, and then tour dates.

But to see, I don't know, it's over, but get off the year with a bang.

With j Lo And yeah, at the end of the day, she is going to put on a good show.

Yeah, she's a fucking fly girl.

At the end of the day.

What are you gonna do?

Do you know?

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

You know.

Sometimes I get invited to this party that I've gone to the last year at a rich person's house that I go to.

Uh, but I don't know if.

I don't know if it's happening this year because usually the invite comes around now.

So we'll see, wow, okay, yeah.

I I also because you know, I'm a delta psychopath taking a layover from San Francisco to Vegas.

What it is?

What it is?

How is there no direct None of those tech bros are going on a fucking weekend in Vegas.

No, And maybe I could do Southwest, but it's like, where's the layover, LA?

You're crazy.

I'll wave to you from the airport.

Waved me from the airport.

All right, let's get into our what would Sister Peg do?

Your final what would Sister Peg do?

Of the year?

Please, if you're in the mood to donate in the for the holiday spirit, you can go back to all of our old what was sister Poph?

My god, you're gonna love this.

I was on stage a man an eternal next sweater and would not like I kept looking at him, would not laugh at one single thing I said.

And at the end and I was just like, you know, it's December, so I go and you guys, you know, why don't you help someone in need?

Like I'm like, you should just help a poor person in the next few weeks, like do something nice, make someone's day better.

The first time he laughed, I go, that's when you laugh, you fucking grembleing of a man.

And then he got serious again, but truly did not laugh once until I said, and do something nice for someone to end it kind of corny, but he started laughing.

I go, sir, that's the first laugh, and then everyone laughed at him.

But it was crazy.

Nothing I said made him get a gold except to help.

That kind of man should be on a watch list.

I don't know how you do that, but we have to get a watch list.

I'm glad you reacted like that because I didn't know if I was.

That's creepy.

You don't laugh at a whole comedy show, that's fine, but the one thing that makes you laugh is go help someone this holiday.

That makes you laugh.

That's crazy.

That is thank you.

I'm glad I felt that way too, But I just I never know when I'm flying off.

I never know if I'm in line with like how humans are or not.

And you know, sometimes yes, sometimes no, Right, I like having All right, let's get back into our web with Sister peg Do.

This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an article, an organization, a doc, something to give you more information about what we talked about.

And as we were just discussing, I think that you know obviously, even though this episode goes wildly in a TV sort of plot, towards TV plot points.

There is something to be said for what happens to people who are wrongfully imprisoned, and I wanted to point you guys today to a Psychology Today article titled the Psychological Impact of Wrongful Imprisonment by doctor Jeff Kokuka.

To quote the article, the exoneration of an innocent person is surely a positive outcome, but in the end, it is not the end of the story, as the impact of wrongful conviction persists well beyond the prison gates, and justice is not truly served until we have made every effort to write this unthinkable wrong.

There are high rates of trauma, exposure and mental illness among exonnaies regardless of time served or time since release, and eggneries often struggle to find gainful employment.

They don't all get a job in a lab where they can.

Get poisoned chemicals that they need to carry out their insane plots.

So, to quote this article again, our findings add to growing evidence that wrongly convicted individuals need and deserve holistic and long term support.

So for more information about this, you can head over to Psychology today dot com.

The article will be linked in our show notes and linked in a story that comes out the day that this episode is released and saved forever in our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram page, which.

Is that's messed up pod.

Thank you so much for that.

I already have the article waiting for me in my tabs so amazing.

Cannot wait to read that because I would fucking want to do revenge too.

Yeah, hopefully in terms of getting suing, I think I would try to.

Ye you, Hontary, revenge is the best.

Yeah for us.

I would try to bankrupt the police department.

But anyways, next week, Big One, Big One guys, Chicago Crossover Season sixteen, episode seven, and Carol, what's the episode?

If they want to watch the Chicago p D version.

This is part of a This is actually part of a three episode arc, although you don't really need to watch it, but if you're a super completist, Chicago Fire is where it starts.

Season three, episode seven of Chicago Fire.

The episode's called Nobody Touches Anything.

Then we've got Chicago Crossover SVU.

Then after that, the Chicago p episode is called They'll have to go through Me.

It's season two, episode seven.

That's where the SVU episode concludes.

If you want holistic full coverage of this story.

Obviously, we'll tell you everything that happens either way, and happy New Year.

We'll see you guys in twenty twenty six.

Have a good New year.

That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

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At Glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.

To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.

Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Dun, Dun,