Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories done.

Done, Yay, that's messed up.

An SVU podcast.

I'm Liza Traeger and I'm Kara Klank And every week on this show, we recap a classic episode of Law and Order SVU as well as the crime that it was based on, and then we talk usually to somebody amazing from the episode.

And today is no exception.

We have been.

We were holding out, we were holding out.

We did it, and it's cool.

We're on the same time zone.

That never happens.

How do you feel recording later in the after verse earlier in the morning.

I mean, I kind of like it.

I can see why you loved when you moved like it, Like the time is better.

It's just better.

But I am going to be recording today.

My kids will come home and my parents will be attempting to keep them quiet, so we'll see what happens with that, you know, so I will say the morning records for me when they're fully in school.

I mean, I've been on the West East Coast for like a month, and I have just got my kids into camp this week and it's changed my life.

I mean, I cannot No one is meant to be with their kids every single day for a month.

It's just not it's not a natural it's not Our summer has seemed so great, Yes, and you want kids to be obsessed with New York and they're just little like they just are kind of like, yeah, what it's whatever.

I'm like, isn't this the most amazing city in the world.

And they're like, are we going to the eminem store?

You know, like they just don't like it's I think I was expecting a little bit too much from them.

But they have been having a great time.

I took them tol Luwie's house.

I took them to Staten Island Ferry, like they've got they've We did the Natural History Museum and like the butterfly exhibit, which they both love butterflies.

So we've been we've been having a blast.

And I'll tell a little anecdote from my summer vacation because this is relevant to the listeners.

So I go to a wedding, I go back to La for a wedding, the one wedding I have all year, and it's on the West Coast while I'm in in New York.

So I go out to LA for this wedding, and I forgot that it's the wedding of my friend who helped us get Marcia gay Harden as a guest on our podcast.

And I didn't even I didn't even remember that she would be at the wedding.

So I'm sitting in a row with her, like three people away from her.

And so when we all get up to like leave after the wedding, which was amazing, it was such a great wedding.

As we're leaving to like go up to our you know, the cocktail hour, Marcia comes out of her seat and I go, Hi, Marsha, it's so nice to meet you in person, Like I interviewed you with my co host Lisa on That's Messed Up.

It's our podcast about loner Respuu.

And she goes like she squinted and was searching the recesses of her mind, and it's like, I get it.

You're a busy woman.

I'm sure you've done a bunch of podcasts.

But it's like we specific we are a very specific podcast, Like I didn't think she would completely forget about it, but she goes, will you forgive me?

My brain is mush?

And I go, you know what's same?

And then we proceeded to just hang out NonStop for a full hour, like she just stayed with me, Like I was alone at the wedding.

I didn't have cock friends.

You guys have cocktails.

We had cocktails.

She gave me.

Okay, So there were three little signature drinks and I think first she started with the margarita and I was drinking this other one that was like delicious, like a rose spritzer, and I think she had that second because the first one she said was too sweet.

But she got a little mini cup of mac and cheese and I go, oh.

That looks good.

She goes, you want to buite?

She gimme?

She goes, if you don't mind my fork, I'm sharing apps with MGH.

We're sharing apps.

Have you ever shared a fork with an oscar winner before?

It was my first time.

I can't.

It was my first time, and like it was just like really natural conversation.

We were talking about her kids.

We were talking about like my kids.

I was telling her all like we were just talking about random stuff.

Like we didn't even get back.

I mean, I wasn't like, oh, I have some follow up questions about as for you, Like we were just chatting.

So then this is so funny.

Like so then we're outside the cocktail hours outside, I'm hot, I'm sweating, okay, and I'm wearing my Honey Love shapewear.

Thank you, Honey Love for sponsoring the podcast.

This is an unpaid mention.

But We're outside in La and it is hot, right and I'm like sweating, and she goes, we how old are you?

And I tell her how old I am.

She goes, maybe it's perimenopause.

I go, yeah, but I don't have any other symptoms.

And she goes, Honey, you're melting right now.

I go, Marcia, I'm outside in July in La, and I'm wearing shapewear.

And we were just like laughing.

And then we took a picture together at my request, of course, and she goes, send me those pictures, gets my We get, we exchange phone numbers.

She faces dropped my jaws on the floor.

She texts me and goes, thanks Kara or whatever, and then the next morning texts me a salad recipe.

We had not been talking about salad.

She just texts me and I love Halluomi.

It's like a Halloomi salad.

I'm like, I love this, sends me a Hallumi salad recipe and goes, this is one of my favorites.

And she says, it was so great hanging out with you last night.

And I said, I had such a good time with you, and I'm totally gonna make this salad.

But now I've got her in my phone, and if we do another Dana Lewis episode and I have any questions, I'll just text her up.

I mean, it's one of those things I'll probably never see her again in my life.

But we had a glorious she texted you means that there was like, you know, she wasn't scared.

You weren't giving an energy of fear, Like she wasn't scared to reveal her number to you.

Yeah.

Yeah, we we We had had a nice time.

I mean I was there alone.

I had friends there obviously, but I didn't have my like husband, and she wasn't there with her husband.

So I think we were just kind of like at the cocktail and we were like, yeah, it's just a couple of single gals going to get a cocktail, you know.

But I was just expecting after she said she didn remember the podcast, for her to be like but nice meeting you and like, but she just started engaging me in conversation.

We just like walked and then after that we were like where should we go?

Now?

Should we go outside?

And we just like what outside?

And like people were going up to her and asking for photos and stuff, and she was being so generous and sweet.

But then she was coming.

Back to talk to me and I was like, you're my new best friend.

I don't know what's saying.

Wow, this is huge.

I also remember that she was a big Katya fan.

When we talked to her, yes, and we talked about came we didn't talk about.

We talked about like lgbt.

Q issues and stuff like that, and like how you know it's like affecting her family and the current administration and shit like that.

We talked about that a little bit, but like we I forgot about how much she loves Katya.

We didn't get into that the drag of it all.

But I'm embarrassed to say I have not watched a second of All Stars and now I know who wins that.

I'm like, I, well, you know the whole time watching it, well you don't know until you meet the third crew or whatever.

But it's like you see what they're doing.

You see the order of challenge, like the lip they cut lip syncs, they re edited stuff to like it's I don't understand why they were so gung ho with the s winner.

And if you are, that's okay, but then don't end on lip sync Lala perusa, you know what I mean.

Like, so it was just watching someone lose.

Three lip syncs in a row to people better than them, but like win them anyway when they win.

Yeah, And it's not like Ginger is not an amazing performer.

It's not like she didn't.

She nailed every single challenge that was there wasn't a design challenge, you know, they did snatch game with her and an improv challenge, Like it just was a little too much and I miss so I put on All Stars too actually to get the energy.

And energy of it.

And Naomi Smalls and Bob, I mean, Naomi was reading to Phil she called Ginger pathetic, like because of the lip sync, because she does this thing where she can't lip sync.

So she looks at the other girl doing something and makes the face of like, well I can't do that, and it's like and Naomi called it pathetic on sibling Revelry.

Rivalry Rivalry Revelry's the Kate Hudson one.

Well, that's what I was gonna say, that's the new Kate Hudson one.

How many people do you think go to Apple Podcasts and put in sibling Rivalry thinking it's Kate Hudson and then they're like, who are these two queens just screaming at each other, like, you know, like just tearing each other apart.

But anyway, that's my little story from not a little story, the biggest little story from the Christmas, from the Christmas, from the summer break.

So what's what's been going on with you?

Well, if you follow me on Instagram, you would know my labubu got stolen.

I saw, I can't, I can't how off of what?

So this is the thing.

So you know Jared Goldstein a friend and a colleague of ours.

He a friend and coworker.

He loves purses.

He's his brain is broken and he's gotten into purses, refurbishing purses, high end purses, fake purses.

No.

He was at my show like a month ago, right before I left LA, and was like showing me a person was like, isn't this amazing?

I was like you, this is your passion.

It's all yeah.

So we decided to do.

A purse's themed show at Sunday at five am.

So you know.

Ever, so there's a lot of purse themes stuff.

So I bring out my turtle backpack and I clip a laboo boo on each end of the backpack to go on stage.

He has a bag, he puts his his labubo, has a Gucci outfit o fake, but puts it on his belt loop.

Like I had my clear tail far filled with tote backs thanks for everyone who came to and it was like, guess how many tote bags are in here?

And we had her eyes as.

A bad purses and like I got gifted a purse and we were like, is this ugly or not?

Does anyone want it?

It's ugly?

No one wanted it, but whatever.

So I had lots of bags and I was drinking.

It's still early, it's hot in the summer city.

I'm walking with some friends to go to get dinner.

In the Lower East Side, So like, I don't know when it happened, Like it could have been sitting at the venue bar.

It could have been on my walk waiting across the street.

It could have been unclipped it.

Yeah, because we had to wait for a table at this restaurant for like a half hour, so we were just outside.

I think my friend I waited in line at a bathroom, like I don't know, and we didn't notice till the end of dinner when I took my turtle backpack up to pay and the key rate.

It's like I CHERYLA.

Boomers when Rosie got hers, I said, I wouldn't bring this to school if I were you.

I don't know.

I don't know that she really like comprehends like theft really yet, like she's never had anything stolen from her, but like you know, I was like, people really want these, Rosie, and they're her to find and I'm worried that someone could take it.

She's like, no, I'll be really careful with it, and she hasn't had it stolen yet.

But I also bought it for her, like on the second to last day of school, so there hasn't been the many opportunities.

I would hope no one would steal it from a child.

Oh no, other children I think would steal it.

Yeah yeah in school.

But out and about I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

I am looking at the box that it came in, and then it was a give.

But oh yeah, I have a retraction to make.

I was thinking about I was being really a negative and nancy about the New York Times movie list, and I liked the movie Gravity.

I don't know why I was so shocked.

It was on the list.

Wow, I was, And you had an apology retraction to make, and this is not where.

I didn't know where this was going at all, But I didn't know it was going to space.

I just felt like I was being like such a hater on fine.

Movies, like put them in the list, like I don't care, I don't know.

I was so gung ho and angry about it.

I did watch Myrary Report, though i'd never seen it.

It's Spielberg, Tom Cruise, pre Crime.

I don't know, and I don't.

It doesn't hold up for me, so I guess I'm still a hater.

But I did give one of the movies I hadn't seen a shot and that's great, Well, I love it.

Well.

Also, so I'm shooting a short, No big deal.

But I thought I was the completely different character.

And I've been learning lines for another character.

Oh no, and it's more and reading the script being like, Wow, this other character's so funny.

Wow, I can't wait to meet this other character.

God, these lines are so fun.

Oh she gets to do that, and then, thank god, this week I realized that I'm that character, not.

The emotion that.

You could tell the serious reserved girl actress, be like, if you need any help with your lines, I also memorize your part.

But I couldn't believe I was studying for the wrong one.

But you know, well, my manager gave me a little talking to and she said, maybe this is a sign to read your emails.

Oh okay, she goes, because it's clearly stated in the emails what character it is, and I go for sure it was a misunderstanding.

Okay.

Also, I'm sorry to go to Australia obviously visa issues.

If you listened to this podcast, you heard before the cancelation happened.

But basically, yeah, I mean, I hope the FBI doesn't support me.

I am a naturalized citizen.

I'm on the edge of my seat, but oh, I'm working on getting back, so stay tuned to this any announcements.

If you had tickets, we'll probably reach out to you.

But and just to reiterate, you've been to Australia multiple times before.

My husband went to Australia with barely a piece of paper that said let him into Australia and it was no problem.

Oh, I have to write an apology letter for the other times I went in and why like this time, like they're like, you shady bitch, we want an apology.

So I had to write like a full declaration.

Up about everything and how I've become a better person since my former brushes with the law.

What in the fucking world?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I've had to be like, I'm a dedicated sister and aunt, I have a podcast about the law.

Let's get some AI images of you at a soup kitchen we can use for them.

I've been volunteering.

Oh you have.

Yeah, I've gone back and I'm signed up for next week.

So I really that's awesome.

I really like it.

Well, and I have to be more front facing.

I let the guys serve and I was scooping the food, and I'm like, sir, if you don't smile at these people, you can't be in the front, Like, yeah, you gotta, but they're.

Gonna be like they're gonna be like Lisa, you can't chat to everybody.

You gotta move the line along.

It's not even about chatting to me.

It's just going my pleasure.

Thank you.

Are you guys ready for some food?

It's like, give these people in experience a little bit of like a hospitality.

Yeah, thank you for the word hospitality.

You know, scooping is good too, But I'm really scared of the like you know, it's hot water and then the trays on top of the hot water.

I'm really scared of that hot water.

And I don't like that.

It's scary.

Yeah, I got youa that makes sense.

And the place when they're fresh from the dishwasher are really hot too.

I'm just not meant for behind the scenes.

Like, I'm just not.

It's just too hot and scary for me.

I'm not meant from behind the scenes.

It's so funny.

Wait really quick before I forget though.

This episode's coming out on August fifth, which means you still have like a week or so it will sell out, So like it don't be like, don't wait till the last day.

It will sell out.

It is what it is.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a great venue.

It's not like a two drink minimum situation.

So it's like less expensive than some of the shows you've done in the past.

If that's anybody, I know that's everybody's worry right now.

Is like money's tight all around.

But come see us.

It's a new episode.

It's uh that you haven't seen in New York and uh games and fun.

It's like fun stuff, so we're gonna have a great time.

It's at the Bell House on August fourteenth.

Go to That's messed Up live dot com.

There's a ticket link there.

Tell them if you're broke, d m us.

Maybe maybe if your story is good enough, we'll give you a comp I mean, Karen Kara has friends.

I'm not letting anyone come in.

I'm making my friends pay.

Come on, I'm making my friends pay.

Enough.

Enough is enough?

Am I seeing Colin?

Maybe?

Oh?

Yeah, I think he.

I think they're coming.

I think Colin and Joe are coming.

Yeah I need some Yeah, you guys, brother, come on.

I'm offering a lot here.

Get into the city, come see this.

Some people have said, we're considering I'm considering flying in.

I think worth it.

Make it, do a little trip to New York.

It'll be fun.

Yeah, it's not like you'll go into the middle of nowhere like you can make a round.

We're not making them right.

The Dakota's no offense.

We love the Dakotas.

We here on this podcast.

We love the Dakotas, always have.

Oh.

I and so, because I wasn't in Australia, I do want to say hi to everyone that came to Chicago.

Cara.

A lot of people said hello, they want more of us.

But I loved seeing everyone and Chicago.

One of the greatest things happened to me.

I saw geese crossing the street and like traffic waiting, and I just I liked it.

I could.

I have never seen that before.

So I was really, Hey, that's like I have a picture of you sitting on a goose.

Oh it's a duck.

I have a picture of you in Boston on like a duck with its little ducklings behind it, and it's very very like in the same vein and I have a silly goose tattoo.

So I did, like, well, it's so funny.

So I did some WG.

I did the Morning News.

They're so nice to me at WGN.

But one of the other people that were going on the news was the vice president of like the Botanic Gardens and my the Chicago Botanic Gardens because of my childhood and being dragged there.

No child wants to be dragged there.

And I'm looking at this woman and I go, well, you know, the geese, and she goes, We've actually dealt with the geese problem.

And when I started in nineteen ninety four, I know exactly what you're talking about, and so I'm not making it up.

There was a geese problem.

So they're not there, but they did.

They did move to the city like the Chicago like around Zanies, like the geese star everywhere, and we have addressed your concerns visa via the geese.

I love that.

Yeah, it's just nice to be like not solidified, but like you know, like validating, validated.

Yeah that it's not like some like weird thing I made up, like the geese were.

Violent, have like a one bad Geese day, and you were attracting the geese in a weird way.

Yeah, this is everybody I got it speaking of, and I know we have to start.

I also am like, we haven't talked in a month, and I feel like we barely even scraped of, like all this stuff that's been going on.

But I before we start, I'll do an either or an either or casey, I'd like you to play as well.

Okay, you walk into your home, would you rather see one thousand roaches or one person?

One person?

Okay, one person.

I don't think you could ever kill the roaches, and I don't think you could.

I don't think you could kill all of them.

They would scatter and they would start re populating.

It would be forever and you would never forget it.

The person this is like bear, This is like bear man.

But you just said person.

So it could be a woman or a child.

So I'm like, but you don't know them, but I don't know them, and I don't know why they're in my house, But I would rather see them.

I would definitely say roaches, because God, that is horrifying and would disturb me to no end.

But the idea, the true terror of seeing someone that you don't recognize inside of your home.

That just that seems so horrible and I would never I would choose the roaches.

I know, but my mind is going to like a million places of like oops, I walked into the wrong house, or like I don't know, like does the person have malevolent intentions or that's not part.

Of the game.

No, it doesn't even matter.

I basically this is from the internet.

Everything is from the internet.

I have no original ideas anymore.

But there is a video and it's not even new, but it was resurfacing again in my feed of like a guy's food kept disappearing, and so he put a hidden camera and then above his fridge was a little drawer crawl space thing and he caught a woman coming out of it and eating his food and going back in and and him being like, get out of here.

So it's like, yeah, I guess it's not but she's not violent.

But the thought of someone in your home coming into your.

Pockets, yeah, well, I do feel like I would prefer to have like a parasite situation where someone lives in like a crawl space in my basement, eat and eating my food.

Versus a thousand cockroaches that you'll never get back you'll never get the sound of them skittering.

Because Matt Bronger has a story like this where him and his friend he used to do this bit.

Truly, this joke I heard thirteen years ago and it still haunts me because he like grabbed this giant frying pan he was gonna hit and he saw a woman sitting on like the stairs of his friend's house or something, and she walked out, and he's just glad he didn't murder her with a skillet.

Is like the point of the story where it's like it was scary, but he's glad, like he didn't bang her head.

I don't know.

Wow, you guys have separate answers, So that's like why this game is so fun.

Wow.

Uh okay, let's get started.

This episode is good.

I hope we gave you the juice because we you know, we were in the time machine for so long, so I'm sure we're like missing out on so many events.

Like if there's stuff we didn't cover that you were like, wait, bitches, we want to hear about.

Yeah, please let us know, because my bad.

Oh, I know what the fucking Idaho murder that the sister of the victim that impact statement was incredible, So kudos, stuff.

I want to talk about it.

Do you want to talk about it next week?

We can talk about it next week.

Yeah, it's going to be like it's a tease.

It's a tease.

It's a tease.

We're starting the app.

The day has come, Ah, done on them.

We're doing the episode wet.

And if you've seen some of our live shows in some cities, we have done wet.

We have done it live many times, just hoping for the moment.

And today is a real Barton Burner Season twelve, episode five.

Yes, we love wet.

We have done it, actually not that many times.

It seems we've done it only like four at four live shows.

We've done it in Seattle, Tampa, Denver, and Atlanta.

So if you were at one of those shows, you saw us do this.

But you know, it's different every time we talk about it, So it's going to be different.

And yeah, this is a hot one.

This is a classic episode, like this is maybe in my top ten for sure.

Yeah, a lot of amazing moments.

It aired October thirteenth, twenty ten.

Spooky Season Spooky.

I guess I'll start.

It's like it's like it feels weird to just start it.

There's so much anticipation in my heart and spirit for everyone enjoy it.

And it was also like so much easier recapping because I have written it and talked about it at length, and we would watch it before every live show at least once or twice, so I was really like running smoothing.

What's the word?

Yeah, all show.

We also did do a video scene from this episode together you and I and a little acting, a little acting sketch tweeted for our TikTok and Instagram that a lot of you guys really enjoyed.

So all right, enough enough.

You know, getting new, getting new, pump.

I don't know what's the word.

I'm teasing you too much.

I'll start so, drugged up couple is running through the arches, and I wrote through, not the arches, just some arches.

What do you think of when you think of arches?

Your go to arch?

I go to arch because I'm sorry, but McDonald's was my second.

Yeah, when you say arches, I think McDonald's first.

Thing.

Wow, when you're talking about like actual I mean the Saint Louis the Arch, I guess this is called Bethesda Terraces it's in Central park Way.

To look that where they are?

I have it in my old notes from when we did it live.

Wow, because I was like, where are they I've seen this area of New York of the city.

It's like it's part of Central Park Wow.

So the girl, she's quirky, she wants to dance.

They're dancing, but then she starts laughing at his dance, which is a man's number one fear.

So he gets mad immediately and but yeah, we're like, he's about to murder her, but it's too it's too early.

So she does baby talk at him and he's like, you little bitch, like I wild.

Yeah, men just want a girl with a sense of humor JK, or they'll fucking hit you.

So and the baby talk sounds like the Sex and the City guy that talks to Samantha and baby talk.

It's like disgusting.

I don't know why anyone would do it as a grownup.

It really sickens me.

Yeah, this girl, the girl in this scene is the girl who plays Supergirl.

Like she's also in Glee.

I know her from Glee, but she was Supergirl in like this CW Supergirl show forever.

So some people might know her from that.

I don't know the guy at all.

He's not worth me looking up because he's being an asshole.

So whatever.

So he's like, stop it, stop it, but she takes off her dress and starts running in her bra and panties, so he's not really mad an ymy, he's pumped.

The mood is not ruined, but then it is ruined because there's a dead woman in the fountain.

It's dirty, this is sad.

Her eyes are fully open and then she's out of the water, like cuts to her at like with everyone on the scene, and it is the most close up close up I've ever seen of red eyes.

It's just scary.

It's scary.

It's her zoom in her like full on face blue late text.

Glove is pointing to the red eyes and it's petikia, which means she drowned and it's not our usual emmy, and this bitch is like victim blaming.

She goes, how is she even dead?

Seems too shallow and it's like aren't you a science cop?

Like how do you know?

How do you not know the answer?

Yeah, And then Benson is in her like blonde like honey Highlight era starts asking questions, and this woman goes, yeah, I got some blood and semen in her Hucci who okay, forensics guy from Dexter, Like they need to be set up on a date.

I swear they could like disrespect victims from coast to.

Coast ak like we also just didn't we just get rid of fucking stucky, Like yeah, yeah, we just covered of Sucky two seasons ago.

And now you're like, I don't know, we need another like CSU Tech who kind of disrespects it like the entire like practice in the entire industry.

Can we get somebody in there like that Hoochi who It's like not what we like.

We love Warner.

And and Judas Ciper like you know what I mean, Like yeah, the smart intelligence.

I don't even take a Rednick.

I didn't even take a rednick JK.

But Benson doesn't say a word, but her face says everything, and the woman says, oh sorry, and then goes, sometimes I forget that they're people.

I mean, it's good for the dead, but maybe like full more it is the more like maybe funeral, Like.

I don't know, Oh, I we gotta have respect, Okay.

So she turns to Maloney who just walked on over, and she's like, hey, you get anything from Skinny or dipper?

An stable responds, well, he's obsessed with her and she never wants to see him again.

So then the science woman is still like joking around and I'm like, are you not like a little bit haunted by this wet, dead woman with red eyes that are fully peering at you?

But okay, So then she says, guys, this is not a fashion statement.

And it's in a very intense zoom with loud music.

Seems like a parody drag race, sketch, noise and effect like it is not.

Sview at all.

It's like do like so zoomed in and it's just like a little bit of this woman's hair is cut from underneath long hair, so just like a honk of hair is gone.

I guess it could be someone'smo everyone's upset.

We're in the credits.

So now we're at the precinct and uh, you know it's a new precinct, it's a new office they've moved to there.

It's Chelsea Piers, it's no longer Jersey Z And they blame a flood or something.

I'm like, what kind of flood, aren't you guys on the fourth floor?

But it was like elevators.

But but Finn comes in.

There's a matching m Central Park barber.

This creep loves snipping a chunk out of a woman's hair, and they call him Sassoon for Vidal Sassoon, and then Benson this seems like something that I would be like, Sassoon, whatever that means, and then Benson would be like, oh, he revolutionized.

Them soon yeah, and then let's not forget Eden Sassoon, who did not revolutionize the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

No, and so, and Ben's so.

Then Benson goes, you know, I can I can use a trim an insane.

This is an insane part of this episode, which is a lot saying how where this goes?

But they Okay, So they're gonna bait this man in the biggest park that I've ever been man for maybe the possibility he's out that day and is gonna be on the bench and spot her to cut her hair.

It's insane.

In Central Park, which is massive.

If you've never been to New York, it's humongous.

It's tens, tens and tens of blocks, so she's on a bench and she's hoaring out her hair.

She's flipping it around.

It's shimming commercial shit.

Yeah's shaking it all out.

Yeah.

And then there you know, she's on a fake phone call.

She goes, my hair is so good.

My hair feels shiny.

I feel like a million bucks.

And then a man is close to her and too close, like if a stranger sat even that close to me on a bench without trying to cut my hair and be like, what the fuck are you doing.

He has a white guy afro, like a Bob Ross situation, but not as robust, and then he takes out his scissors and right as he's about to chop Benson's gorgeous hair, Stabler grabs him right before the cut, and then they go what are you up to, sassoon, And they find blonde hair in his pocket, so they take him in.

He's dragged into the office and he goes, she was already dead before I cut her hair, and they're like, yeah, but you raped her.

He goes, no, I have a lullaby.

So he's stupid and they all laugh at him and he goes, I was at Banana Trama all night, and then they throw him in the cage that's in the middle of the room.

So Banana Raama is a transvestite club, and he was getting a miss a lap dance from Miss Terry.

And so there's also like those whole precincts like during this investigation, there's boxes and ladders and paint.

And then Munch of course like drove to the wrong precincts that morning.

And to me, Munch seems like a train guy, Like I feel like he would be a believer of public transportation.

I'm really shocked that he would drive to the precincts.

Where do you think Munch lives?

I don't know.

I could kind of see him leaving living like deep in a story are or something.

I don't know.

I don't know.

In my head, it's like Chelsea, like from I don't know.

Yeah, So, not only did he drive to the wrong precinct he walks into a ladder this detect maybe the transition glasses should lighten up, and so paint spills all over his outfit.

He screams, he goes all hell breaks loose when Kragan's not here, and we don't know why Craigan's not here.

None of the former episodes would inform this information.

It's also not in near any of the times he did get in trouble or stand up for someone and had to be like, I don't know what's going on.

Maybe he just took a trip.

We do know Dan Florek was commuting from California to New York, so maybe he just had something to Yeah, like he got fucked.

And like or needed to do something with his wife and he couldn't be at that episode.

Yeah, because he does show up later in this episode, so I don't know.

So then Stabler goes this guy's lullaby, you know it checks that he was all nights and the haircutter guy's not it because he was kicked out at four point thirty in the morning and that wouldn't like work with the time of death.

So this is a jam packed episode.

We get Mika Vaughn your New Ada for one episode, and if you want to play a drinking game or you're smoking some weed, I guess you can eat a mushroom every time we say something wink wink.

But every time she mentioned mentions her son drenched loft, you will get fucked up.

This bitch does not, and it's Paula Patten famously got cheeted on by Robin Thick.

Not that that defines her, but that's mostly what I know about her.

And she's not very good.

We don't really care.

And I guess she booked James Bond or Mission Impossible, and so Neil Bhaer told us he was like, listen, girl, I'm not gonna hold you back, like we'll write you out.

So she was gonna be regular, and I wonder how that would have panned out, but she could have still been at the show.

He also told us that Meka Vaughn is an anagram of Kim Novak, these old actresses that you know, Neil Bear was obsessed with.

So that's an interesting little tidbit too.

But yeah, the problem is is, like you can get somebody gorgeous, We've done it before with Gray Lick, they have to also be good.

They have to be a Stephanie March.

They have to be uh dian Neal, you know, like they have to be good looking and good at acting.

And unfortunately, at least in this role, I'm not feeling it from Paula.

But no, she's in a different show, like she's in a rom com.

She's in like she's she's totally in a different show.

She's like, hey, cuties, anybody want my loft?

Okay, let's go.

Like it's just so weird, like the Tonally, it's like she's never seen us view and she's like, I got it and just marched onto set and started doing this fucking twenty seven dresses bullshit.

Yeah, and so then you know, our detectives go, I'm you know, Sabler Benson.

She goes, wow, no first names, shut up?

Who cares?

How do you like?

Who cares?

She whatever?

So she's like, okay, so the DNA from the semen inside your victim, Like, what's up?

You know, I looked it up and we did a familial match and we've got Monica Worley.

So her brother is the person who's semen is inside your victim and she was arrested for assaulting a cop at a Republican convention in two thousand and four.

Props to Monica.

That's with this episode.

So and then she goes, lucky, we can do this here because in Illinois I can't do these little matches.

But she goes, you know, I'm here from Chicago.

I'm ready to ditch the Bears.

For the giants, and Sailor goes jets and it's like, of course, you loser, you Catholic loser, just on a path to suffer.

So she says, if you know anybody that wants my son drench loft on Lake Michigan.

The seller is motivated and she also wants a jingle once they talk to the rapist's sister, and so then Benson and Staylor go find the sister and she's mime.

She's a mime.

She has a caution tape headband.

She has white face paint clip on big giant earring.

She's wearing a white jumpsuit and holding a fake rope but has a real hammer hanging off her jumpsuit and she's holding this fake rope so tight, and she will not acknowledge the authorities.

So Stabler mime sawing.

The rope.

So good, and she's so good.

She goes, ugh, you suck at mime, and he says, you suck at cooperating with the police, and she says what did I do?

And they say your brother, and she says, oh, what did you do this time?

And she's like, he, I always knew you'd go too far.

He felt like the trust fund entitled him to pot any woman he wanted, and he owns a brownstone on seventy fifth and fifth and she just sold him out.

No loyalty here, and she has black outlined lips with like orange lipstick.

This woman is deranged, Like I can't describe her.

She's like the person.

It's like these two come money and the brother has turned into like a tool and she has like been like I'm going to go against my family wealth.

And even though she probably has a nice apartment, she spends her time like doing performance art to try to like be important with her money, like say something with her life instead of being you know, she's the classic that I think you would say, why are you working?

Just be rich, and she's like not working, She's she's yeah, bono mining on the sidewalk.

I wonder if the actress that got this part was like, Wow, I did not think my college min was ever gonna come into be helpful.

And there it is a part on SVU where you're playing an unhinged min with a trust fund.

Yeah I'm obsessed, but okay.

So we go to the douche Lord and he's walking in with Stabler and it's yeah, he has a slutty douche vibe and they're in cement room bars and they throw the photo of the body more vibe like morg style.

I will stop saying vibes.

I have to get a grip.

I have to get a grip, get a grip.

I was doing an audition with Ted and there was oh my god, okay, so you know, I try.

I go out for funky stuff.

I would say, I'm always pushing myself.

The one role that broke me, we couldn't even send in the tape.

I was supposed to just be like a loving, supporting wife and.

I could not do it.

I could not do it.

I kept failing.

I kept and then I kept add libbing, Oh my gosh, where I had to cut it early.

He goes, I've been counting.

You said it six times like I was not.

I could not stop saying, oh my gosh, I got a sweater.

I'm like, I'm just a wife at a barbecue.

I'm just having a good time.

And I couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it, couldn't do it.

He's like, I don't think.

He's like, let's just do the other character.

I go, Okay, my god, I have all the takes.

I have like seventeen takes of me.

Just try it's the one sheet of lines.

It was.

There was no depth to it in any capacity I was.

It was just like two scenes of doting like suburban woman, and it broke me.

I'm like sending in tapes for Wayne Gacy's sister.

Got it.

That I can handle?

I couldn't.

I can't do it.

Well, they've been fun.

I did not get something I really wanted recently.

But that's not an intro, so I'll get back to the episode.

Yeah, because the product, the production called and they go, are you okay with full nudity and stimulated sex?

And I went for sure, but someone else, Yeah, I didn't get it.

Oh that makes you feel like it's gonna happen right, Well, I knew I was at least in the mix.

But the people they gave it to are well, they just it's perfect.

It's gonna be perfect.

Yeah, the people who got it, I'm very happy for them.

Oh gotcha?

Okay?

Yeah, that's what I mean.

Like they because when someone told me, I smiled and they go, why do you hate her?

I go, no, it's kind of perfect casting and that makes sense.

Oh, got it.

At the end of the day, I'm a lover of the craft.

If I'm not the right person, I'm not the right person.

But whatever, So murder face and the guy goes, listen, sex was consensual, and he also was like, blonde curls, and so like, sex is consensual, but no Raper murder.

And then he uh, called well, I also would like to say that I did have to do this sex scene with Ted on zoom.

That was the audition, really, I sent it in, yeah, but I couldn't but I handled it.

And then just being like a woman at a barbecue spiraled me where I'm just like, oh my gosh, the vibes, the vibes, I'm not a real person anymore.

Oh my son, I saw a video.

The vibes are immaculate.

Like anyways, So this dude, she's a classic.

It's consensual sex.

It's consensual.

No Raper murder.

He calls her blondie, which Stabler does not like, and so and then he goes, well, I don't even know her name.

She came over to me and she said she was hot and wet.

So Stabler clears his throat and goes, why would anyone throw themselves at you, and he's like, I don't know, but she did and I and then he goes and she even took out a tampon before we did it.

And then Stabler goes, Okay, where's the tampon and he goes, killer ate it and it's his wienie dog, and yeah, one tampon will ruin a weenie dog, Like.

You do have to take them to the vet.

It's like they are looking for a killer and you're just going killerate it.

Like it is like it's a full Laurel and Hardy episode.

They're like, oh the tampon, who ate it?

Killer ated a killer?

Who's the killer?

Oh?

My dog?

Like it's so wild.

I didn't even catch that because I was still so crazy about this tampon, Like.

Like, how is that?

I guess I know that speriod now.

But if you rape someone, you could also take out the tampon.

Yeah, I don't think taking out a tampon equals consent, right nothing, what does that even mean?

So?

But whatever, But also if he kept the tampon, like then Stabler brings like where's the tam You want him to keep the tampon?

You want him to be like Oh, I have a jar at my house with all these tampons, I'd rip out of women like I don't that would be better for you, Stabler.

Anyways, this guy, he has it all on tape, and Stabler's like, why wouldn't you say that in the beginning, but he has it on tape, but also why would you have it on tape?

And basically he does videos for a website called sex Prowl.

It's the YouTube of sex and he taped the encounter from last night.

So it's a tall woman, she's in a business suit and she is saying I'm hot, I'm wet, while slowly peeling off her clothing.

But she also does look like an alien, like fully deranged, out of this world.

Her eyes are staring off like something is often its freaky, very barbarian, and she's saying, I want it now, and she's just like desperate to fuck, I want it now, taking off her bra.

So everyone's watching the tape and the dude goes, tell ja, but we might still have him for murder, and Finn goes, nope, not anymore.

He was at the vet till.

Six a m.

So he goes, can I get out of here?

Stabler says, not fast enough.

So now Mikavon introduces herself to Finn, and I mean he's smitten like a cartoon guy like jaw on the floor and he goes, hey, I'm Odafin and she goes, wow, a first name.

Love that.

It's like, you fucking freak your fetish.

This is not this is not normal.

I've also never seen Fin work harder.

Like she asks him to do something, he goes right on it, boss, no problem, Like he runs off.

So then Stabler goes to the screen to get you know, like the sex site off the big screen, and Munch is in a full copy uniform.

So Stabler stops his task and then makes fun of his friend and he goes, whatever, I had a paint attack, Like no clean clothes, so this bitch isn't doing his laundry and but he's so but he had his cop uniform laying around, but to not have one bit of laundry and also are you dry cleaning the suits anyways?

No, I think it was like it happened at the office if we just changed into his suit, right, yeah, but he could be like I didn't have any other clothes here, but to be like there's no clean laundry.

I bet he stops home.

I bet he lives in Chelsea, But why is he driving you to Chelsea?

Doesn't make sense.

He you know what, Belser lived on the Upper West Side because he lived near me, because I would see him.

So maybe he's an Upper West Side guy.

I could see that too, you know.

So that's still a wild drive.

It's it's still crazy.

So then a man, crazed man walks in, pointing to the screen and he goes, is this your case?

And when Stabler says yes, this man goes you son of a bitch, swings that Stabler misses.

Stabler is like, oh, take it easy, you know, like he's a horse and someone sent him this viral email.

He's wheezing, and he goes, my name is Greg Elding and that's my wife.

And so that's sad.

So now I just don't get what you thought was gonna happen from punching the cop that's leading your wife's case.

I don't.

I mean, I know, we're all mad, we're we're sad, we're mad we've lost your wife, But you're punching the lead cop in the case.

I don't know.

What he is his thought process was there?

All right?

So Greg's in it's his wife.

Of course, this is sad.

And they send a full uniform Munch into the like a third space office third and we need info.

Lindsay was at the office yesterday.

She is head of PR for Cola Now, and Munch goes, wow, high pressure job.

Does she love drugs?

And he goes, actually, yeah, but up until a year ago, she's a recovering addict and she would never go back.

He plays a video of her on his phone to prove the real Lindsay is not some hopped up pore but a family woman at the park and Colon Now donate.

So Colon Now donates jungle gyms.

That's not what I called it as a youth, I said playground.

I never used the term jungle gym.

My kids call it the apparatus.

Oh my god, they they go, they go.

And I was on the apparatus and he was trying to get in front of me, because that's what I think.

That's probably what the teachers it like, the playground apparatus.

She'll always be like the apparatus.

Oh my god, she'll be like at my after school program.

We don't even have the apparatus.

Like then, we don't even have access to the apparatus.

Oh my god, that's so fucking cute.

So whatever, So Colon now donates a lot of these apparatus.

I I don't know apparatiparadi.

So Colon how is.

Donating apparadi to charities?

And she loves helping kids and doing pr for Cola and Stabler confirms his alibi.

Her passion is doing pr for Cola.

I don't know what to tell you.

Oh my god.

Yeah, I met a girl who's like young, and she wants to be a contract lawyer.

And I'm like, what's what was her childhood?

That this is young, you're committing to a life of contracts.

So confusing to me.

But however, so Stabler confirms that the husband didn't do it, but I never thought it was him, and he apologizes for being right.

He just lost his mind after he saw the video.

But you know, he goes working for Cola made her a lot of enemies.

So they go talk to a guy in a suit and Munch is back in a suit as well, and the world feels more okay, and they're gonna go find these Cola enemies, and people are mad at sugar and fat children, and you know tobacco, is it cola?

What's going on?

The man goes, who cares, We're not in court because it's Lindsay elling.

She's smart and sexy, and if the tobacco people had someone as sexy and smart as Lindsay, they'd also be able to continue a hawking their wares to the.

Children, to kids.

So they go talk to now a wild haired, messy office mad hatter type of man, and there's a lot of pushpins on the board and he of course hates cola and he refused one hundred thousand dollars she tried to give his organizations.

Because he goes, fuck that bribe and fuck that bitch, and he goes, soda is bad for kids.

So he goes go talk to Davy Gamm's mother and see what soda did for him.

And then so we I know, sadly this boy took his own life at twelve.

He wouldn't put the soda down.

He was addicted to the cola.

And Benson goes, wait, so soda made him take his own life.

And the mom it was also a nurser medical professional.

I guess I shouldn't be sexist.

She could be the highest doctor in town, but her scrubs aren't giving that, you know what I mean.

The scrubs are a shooting star Pastel most yeh yeah yeah yeah, maybe a pediatrician, but oh whatever.

So she goes, obesity can make you depressed.

He's depressed.

Benson doesn't think you can blame soda, and she goes, yeah, yeah, that's what the jury said too.

She goes, I would have won my case if that woman didn't build the Cola Now Athletics Center for the community.

So we go to the center.

I mean, this is the funniest episode this is.

I also love this isn't The athletics center is like so wild, Like Coca Cola could buy an athletic center, but it wouldn't be allowed to be called.

The Coca Cola Athletics Center.

I don't think there's a dary episode about this.

Like soda company takes all over over the school, and then the principal wants more funding, so she starts telling the students like, the more soda you drink, the more extra credit you're gonna get.

So then all these kids just like can't stop drinking.

The soda whatever.

So this place is nice gymnastics gym, it's probably Chelsea Pierce.

The probably like let's go next door Cola now posters everywhere, but kids are doing varying levels of gymnastics.

Stabler presses him about the pr stuns, and the dude goes, who gives a shit?

Look at these kids s aving the time of their life.

The woman's a hero.

So Stabler confidently goes into the office and he goes, wow, hero to some hated by others.

Benson says, that's called doing your job, good one.

So Finn says, yeah, but I hate her because she made the soda tax fail.

And of course Stable, I mean, this is okay.

So we're gonna get a social issue.

And they're all arguing.

So Stabler goes, well, who wants taxes?

I bet he voted for Cuomo and or would he not because of the sex pest stuff and he is an SVU detective.

I mean honest, Yeah, I think Stabler's voting for Adams, to be honest.

Like, oh yeah, what about Finn?

Who are they all?

But Munch is definitely mom Donnie.

I don't know about Finn because Finn Adams loves cops.

He's also another black man.

I feel like Finn might be going for Adams.

I don't know.

Yeah, but then they hate they hate corruption, so I don't know, Oh.

God, so or whatever.

I can't believe.

I have to summarize this tax conversation.

Okay, so Stabler doesn't like taxes.

Munch says, well, taxes already go to soda for there's a four billion dollars subsidy on corn syrup and that's why it's so cheap.

I'm like, bad for you.

And then the tax on the soda fin ads would help pay for the cost of diabetes and heart disease.

Benson goes, but it's not just soda, Like, come on, you know, Lindsay was also helping the little guy, and Munch goes, yeah, the little guy brought to you by Cola.

Now the soda argument keeps going, so then Stabler goes money going good is good, and Finn says, well, if she really cared about poor kids, they wouldn't go plastering their logo everywhere.

Finally, George Huang comes out of nowhere, poof like a genie, and he just goes, Lindsey was poisoned and it's like, what's your take on soda?

You just stood there in silence as they talked.

I just like, okay, but whatever.

So Lindsay's poisoned.

And by four the mushrooms were found in her gut.

Four species from South America with a high dose of mascarine and toxic.

And it's which is a toxin that makes you hot, sweaty and sexually aroused.

And then Stabler really slowly says, I'm hot, I'm wet, and then explain and then he goes explains what she threw herself with this jerk looser and took off her clothes and wanted to go in the fountain.

So this answers everything.

Somebody slipped this woman a deadly cocktail of shrooms, so Huang says they were in her so that means it happened around dinner time.

So then we find out in her calendar.

Sorry, it was so funny the ways they were in her ju juna dinner time.

Just stay in Testine, what are you doing?

What are you doing?

Saw on where we found the mushrooms.

It was dinner time.

Felt like a misfrizzult, but it also felt like they cut my voice out like someone that could say juno.

But I watched a few times to make sure.

So fundraiser.

She's at a fundraiser at wishing time.

So we go to wishing time.

We heard a rich old voice, classic image of a rich old, mean woman.

And this this is hers, this wishing time.

Her grandfather donated the first Teeter Totter to Central Park in nineteen oh seven.

See that's not I never said Teeter Totter.

I say seesaw.

Seesaw, I say seesaw Teeter Totter's a really old way of saying it.

Okay, not to shade this actress, but that's old.

And she loves continuing his work, and they fulfill kids wishes.

They built an anti gang clubhouse, and she loves Lindsay and this is such a tragedy and she was an amazing woman and then one of the best top ten quotes of all time.

She had a genius for corporate giving.

So that's like.

It is a scalet is a skill.

People can all be good at different things.

So anyways, Benson notices something behind the woman's head and it's blown up photos from the dinner and there are mushrooms on her salad.

So but there's no mushrooms on the menu.

So according to this old woman, and she is a legend.

She's one Drama Desk Awards and Tony's and like a legend of screen and stage.

So I am sorry, I just keep referring to her as that old woman.

And she Mary Harris, right, yeah, and she was born in nineteen twenty seven.

Yeah, so pretty incredible.

Yeah, I was just yeah, oh my god.

She was in Spider Man.

Holy shit, she's like the grandma and Spider Man.

And her birthday is the day before mine.

She's gonna be ninety eight this fall.

She was in Search Party.

I mean she said something come out in twenty twenty four.

That's what it means to really love what you do.

And Lindsey, yeah, you do a really good Yeah.

Can you talk with her a little bit so people know why we're like having the times of our lives.

Do the corporate giving line?

She had a genius for corporate giving.

Like she just has this wild, like like vaguely British voice, but just kind of like.

Say, there were no mushrooms on the menu.

There were no mushrooms on the menu.

Like she's just really but the best is when she like talks to her granddaughter, Oh a little bit with a little bit of stink on her voice.

Yeah, So she calls out for this granddaughter.

Perfect timing for Emma, the granddaughter and Lindsay, and she goes, Lindsay's death was a terrible blow to her.

So she asked Emma to pull all the photos for the cops.

And we're on the desktop, we're looking through pictures and she explains that they met in rehab and the old ladies like, don't air out our dirty laundry.

But then she goes, Emma's parents died when she was ten, and it's like okay.

So then they see that, like, none of the other plates had mushrooms on them, so who put these mushrooms there?

But there were over three hundred guests at the Swishing Time gala, so they have to take all the picks and the photographers and photos and we have to like see who did it, because at the end of the day, it's someone there put mushrooms on the plate.

But then in one of these blown up photos there's a man being held by multiple security screaming, and Stabler goes, well, who's that?

Why would you not bring it up, like this woman is dead.

A man was screaming out it, like when you'd be like there was a guy there screaming that had to be dragged out, Like it just seems so funny.

And it's photos of Dave Crumbhole, who we love, I mean ten things they hate about you, oh like Cannon Canon, he's been working for decades dream career.

Also, by the way, like you can look at the scene cards of this, like the woman was found on October fifth, I think or fourth, and like they're talking at wishing time on October sixth, like how quickly are they blowing up photos from this event?

Like the event was yesterday and they're like, get a bunch of photos of the salads and blow them up as big as possible, and we need to display them quickly, like it's so crazy.

Yeah, when they've been like, oh our friend died.

Uh oh yeah, chill out on the blowing up of the picks.

Do so so some Okay, so some guy is yelling and I just find it shocking that they wouldn't tell the authorities immediately.

But Emma goes, oh, it's a homeless guy looking for food, and the old lady goes, no, no, no.

He accosted Lindsey and yelled at her about Bolivia.

He kept screaming, you can't own the rain.

Wait, you have to say in the.

Old Lady Boys.

Hit anythwhere you can't.

He he kept screaming, you can't own the rain.

You know, like that's sort of what she's going.

It's so crazy.

Wait, but also, you know what, I just discovered the woman that plays Emma.

Her name is Amanda Fuller, and I just was like, oh, how con We've like never I've like never looked her up, even though we've done this at like a bunch of live shows.

She plays Badison in Orange is the New Black.

Yes, oh that part.

Auditioned for that part, but I.

Didn't even like put that together.

She plays Britney Murphy and the Britney Murphy story.

I mean, she's done a lot of stuff.

But anyway, so yeah, that's wild.

I'm glad she's still out there.

Yeah, she's working, working up a storm.

So then Benson goes, it didn't make any sense, like they're back in the office, and then it cuts to the office and Munch goes, oh, it makes a lot of sense.

Bolivia's ground zero for the water wars of course, So now we have another political debate about owning the rain and water.

And basically Munch pulls up a blog and it's about Colon now and how it's trying to own all the water.

And guess who the blog writer is.

It's the guy who was held back and yelled at Lindsay.

He's a professor.

His name is Vincent ProCheck and he's a professor of mycology at the Natural History Museum, uh oh, and he specializes in toxic South American mushrooms.

So then, and it's like, why would you use the mushrooms of your region to poisons?

Like get another mushroom.

Yeah, if you're a mushroom guy and you want to kill somebody, you can't do it with mushrooms.

Like that's you just can't do that, you know.

It's like you got to figure out a different weapon of choice.

They go to his lab.

It's dark, it's spooky.

There's a lot of tanks purple lights.

And by tanks, I mean not military or tank tops, like tanks that are like aquariums that are holding ushrooms and so whatever.

He's working so deep into these mushrooms with his at like telescope, microscope, glass, metal things are on his eyes and he's like looking in he doesn't even hear them.

They yell for him multiple times, and then finally he's like ah.

Benson takes a pot off a lid and goes, well, what's this and it's a bunch of steam goes in there and it hits her a little, and so it's just to clear her throat.

And he goes, it's just mushrooms.

Is that illegal?

She responds, it is if you use it to poison someone.

He's immediately in cement room bars and he has the energy of I would say the Father and Beauty and the Beast, a lot of inventions, spastic energy, trying to get stuff done, you know, ahead of his time.

And so he's not by looks, not by looks.

It's the ever Crumholtz.

We've told you, Okay.

So he's in cement room bars.

He's railing about Lindsay yelling and privatizing water and he and I'm like, you should be saying I want a lawyer.

But he agrees that murder is bad, but he says I'm glad she's dead, yay, And then Benson goes, are you happy.

Now this girl is gonna grow up without a father, and ProCheck goes, do you mean mother, and Sablor goes, yay, mother, and then Sailor takes out pictures and says, we have you at the scene, and Benson goes yeah and gets right in his face and goes at Niagara falls.

And so now the string instruments start to play, and she says, ring a bell.

We saw you on the roof with your gunman, and so Stablor stands up.

He's like, what's up, girl, and then she says a famous line.

She goes, well, I'm not the one who stabbed the captain with a pickle, and then the professor goes uh oh, and then stands up to help.

Stallor turns around and puts his hands up on him and shoves him, and he goes, well, let me see her eyes, and Staylor goes, you're not gonna fucking look at her eyes, and he goes, well, she's about to fall, and she does fall right into Stabler's arms, and Stablor has to call for a bus.

Girl down.

She inhaled too many mushrooms, so now she's tripping.

We're in the hospital.

She's like on a pillow, the most beautiful little snow white we've ever seen.

Eyes open, and there's Hwang and there's no better way to wake up from.

Uh.

I would be happy if I woke up in the hospital from a drug trip and bed Wong was right there.

Yeah, that'd be nice.

But she's confused.

She goes, who put rocks in my head?

And basically he's boiling mushrooms and they arrested him, but she breathed them way too deep and the vapors are temporarily neurotoxic.

The one thing on her mind, though, is work.

You know, she's a workhorse, And so she goes, did he confess to murder?

And Bedwong says no, he's actually refusing to speak until he knows that you're okay.

So he's a softie.

And then she gets up and asks for a ride.

And so now they get like, I wonder if they stop to get coffees and now and why is everyone driving?

Where?

But everyone's driving?

But I bet everyone?

Yeah, So like bed Wong like is coming in from the FBI and then renting a vehicle.

I think they're giving him one.

I don't I don't know.

Listen, this mushroom guy, though he does believe in right and wrong.

He's got a good sense of right and wrong.

Oh yeah, gotta give him that.

Yeah.

And then so anyway, so now we're here where the ride has been given.

We're back in cement room bars.

He's preaching, he won't stop.

He's talking about wombats, hippos, the importance of water.

He also says, so sorry that the fun guy hurt, Like, that's not that's not his heart.

He would never want to, like use fung guy to hurt people.

Stabler and Benson just hear him, Babbel and Babel, and Stabler's like he's been going in circles for a while.

Benson wants to bring it back to Lindsay and he talks about water.

But he says he didn't kill her.

And now Mika and George are what are hanging out there watching?

And she asks, well, why didn't he get fucked up?

And and it's obvious you're an idiot.

He's built up a tolerance, you know, years of exposure.

And she's like, but he sounds like a psychopath, and he goes sure, But he works at this fancy museum.

He has published articles.

He leads foraging trips.

He's odd but sane.

Dave Seaver one of our favorite guests.

Michael Boatman, I'm obsessed with him.

If you haven't listened to that episode.

His sister called him after the museum called her so and then Meeka Vaughn tries to sell her sun drenched loft to him.

But he's flirty, I mean, he wants to fuck, and she's sassy because he's like, when can we chat?

And she goes arraignment.

So they're arguing, like always classic, we want remand we want freedom, back and forth.

Boatman goes from flirty to feisty and calls her new and Proache keeps shouting about the water what else is new?

But Boatman's like, listen, this dude needs to tend to his mushrooms.

Meeka Vaughn, amateur mistakes, says mushrooms aren't children.

The judge goes, oh that's a misstep, girl.

I love my roses.

They've won prizes and I'd rather ditch my wife than my flowers.

So he just has to surrender his passport and the bales set for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Who's paying that?

Or do you think he's saved all his money or he's also a rich No, yeah, he's a professor.

I don't know, not a lot of money, Like what is that's a lot?

But he smiles, he's happy with this.

Yeah, so I guess it's a doable amount for him.

So then Stabler comes sick.

What does he have to actually pay?

Pays twenty five thousand that's what the bond would be.

Yeah, I guess he could have that savings.

Stabler comes to help her do the NYC press run because you know, this isn't Chicago, It's New York.

And it's like you're acting like Chicago's like a fucking hicckville.

It's the busiest airport in our country.

What are you talking about?

And meanwhile, a full Chicago PD, Chicago Fire, Chicago MED, they're all on the horizon, they're about they're like all coming out this year.

Yeah, you might not know how the news runs.

Yeah, but so anyways, she goes, I don't how to handle myself, so and she does.

She basically is like, Hey, I'm not really gonna chat you guys, like we're outside in the court steps.

She goes, but why don't you go talk to that guy mention water and so he's popping off and now the office is watching him talk about water on the TV screen and you know, good news though, the DNA of the mushrooms are a genetic match to his mushrooms, so they're picked from the same patch.

So the weapons is his, everything's his.

The lawyer, you know, the time whatever.

But the lawyer says, we want to make a deal, so we got to start chatting.

Emma and Rosemary, Granny they come on down with boxes and boxes of photos.

Emma's miserable.

The old lady is chipper.

Emma looks into the glass or the professor's on the other side, and Granny says, don't stare.

Okay, you gotta do it.

Don't stare.

It's rude.

And then Emma goes, okay, and what killing my best friend?

Was that a faux paw?

And she grabs her and says, I know, it's all the rage to mote in public.

See it's not as fun, but I can't just keep forcing you to do it, you know.

So she's like, it's all the rage toimote in public, but in my day it wasn't done.

And it's like, Grammy, your day is done.

She says, well, I'm still alive and I never did drugs like you.

It's like, yeah, you've said it a million times, like good for you probably owned slaves, how about that?

So then she goes, as long as you wear my intaglia necklace, And then I.

Thought you were going to explain what that is.

Yeah, I am, I am an intaglia.

I've looked it up before.

It's like a carving technique where like the design is inside, so a lot of times it's like a side portrait silhouette of somebody or whatever, and.

It's it's carved in and it creates a recessed.

Image, is what I've looked up.

Thank you.

Yeah, but she goes, you know you will mind your manners as long as you wear my necklace.

You're minding your manners.

It's an heirloom.

So then Benson goes, hey, lady, have you ever been to like an attics support group or anything?

Maybe at Emma's rehab And she goes, ew not with those junkies.

Gross, And then we so we hear Dave Crumholtz just screaming up a storm, and Grammy and Emma runoff, and Benson goes jeez, if I grew up with that, I would do drugs too.

Then we hear a scream I want a livy out, don't we all?

So Mika opens the door and lets her in.

Boatman wants an insanity defense based on the mushroom fumes, but he says I'm not crazy, and he wants Benson to confirm that, and he wants to fire him.

He screams, go away.

Boatman walks off, spins around and has a pretty woman moment and Legit goes big mistake and leaves.

So then he says, I'm gonna plead guilty.

That's what he says, but he can't do that without a lawyer, and me goes like it's a police building.

I'm sure we could find some lawyer.

But he sucks.

So we're in court.

This guy's stuttering, he doesn't know what's going on, he doesn't know the charges, but it doesn't matter.

Dave crumbolds he wants to plead guilty.

He goes, I did it I wanted or dead, But the judge needs specifics, like you have to do a true allocution, like what types?

What's going on?

How'd you do it?

And he says three types of mushrooms.

Stabler gets his thinking face on.

He has a little notebook.

It's actually four mushrooms.

It's actually four, not three.

A man like this was such a professional and a professor at mushrooms would not fuck this up.

A fool could suck.

It up, not this guy.

So then he tries to get Von to stop the judge, just stop the judge.

He has it's court side seats.

It's a Nicks home opener.

This guy has a lot of hobbies court side basketball roses like he just does not want to see his wife after work, and he's about to speed up you know, the rules of Justice.

Because oh my god, I was out with friends and obviously talking about crime and Jeriada YadA, and and I said something and they thought it was a catchphrase.

They're like, oh, is that part of the podcast.

I go, no, truly, I just said it, but maybe it should be.

But I said, journey to Justice.

I thought it was like a catchphrase.

I had I go, nope, here for my sl justice.

So talking about always sounds like a Lifetime movie about like somebody who like has to keep going getting the system to work for them.

Well, because I knew about this one crime that like, and I was talking about it and then I said the sentence of the guy, and they go, how long?

And I said, I don't know how long the journey to justice was.

So but I've been trying to sneak it into conversations, but they thought I was like doing bits on them and I was like, no, so whatever, so da da da da the musher so he okay.

So basically, fucking Stabler's like, listen, this isn't justice, Like who cares about basketball?

Like we need to figure this out, but no one's listening to him.

So now he pretends to have a mushroom attack and acts crazy, makes the fool of himself.

He's like, we gotta, we gotta order the pizza.

He starts stripping in the galley.

We're like, take it off, maloney.

And then the ambulance gets called for him and he's signing himself out and Mika's a bit.

She's like, what's going on here?

And he's like, I know the truth.

You know the truth.

This motherfucker's lying.

She goes, who cares?

And he goes, he's innocent.

Well, you don't care about any of this, but she doesn't want to look like a flake.

This is her first you know, go in in New York and he's like, well, I need more time to figure this out, and so she goes, well, you have till tomorrow morning to find the evidence to back up whatever you're saying.

So it's an all night or time.

Everyone's at the precinct looking at pics and evidence to figure this out.

At seven fifty one, no mushrooms.

At eight oh two, mushrooms.

But the thing is pro check according to all the photos, is nowhere near the plate, nowhere near lindsay like, he could not have done this.

So Mika makes a call and we don't know what it is.

But she leaves and she's like, I need sleep, and she gives them all attitude.

This is actually psychotic.

She turns around and she goes, hey, I don't think you understand how this works.

You guys are the pots and pans.

I'm the chef.

Okay, bitch, No, no, none of our past like Das would have ever said anything like that.

I don't think so.

A little woman named Sonia Paxton, well, Sonya was a rude bitch, but she knew she needed these fucking detectives.

You know you're crazy.

She knew she needed them.

I don't think she would have said, I'm the sh chef, you're the pots and fans.

It's so rude, speaking of beauty and the beast.

I mean it's written, it's like you're missus Potts.

I'm bell like it's wild yeah yeah, and to them, I mean the ninety seven percent right, it's connection, right, come on.

So Stabler can't even believe she said it.

But we're back at court.

Nobody's seen the defense attorney.

Uh oh, he went on vacation, so the judge is gonna put him in contempt.

And then Stabler goes, you bitch, you gave him a bad lawyer on purpose.

And she goes, or is he the best lawyer?

She goes, is it no lawyer here?

The best lawyer?

It gives us days, not hours.

So she actually does like those statement from the night before makes no sense.

She's playing dirty and Staylor really likes it.

But she sent him to the loft, and Stabler this time says, sun drenched.

I can't so Kragan's on the steps and not a lot of craigan this up.

But I think you're right.

He had a delayed flight and he says, hi, to Mika.

So that's where she gets to meet him, and Craigan goes, oh, yeah, babe, nice knowing you.

Your boss called pack your bags.

You're going back to Chicago.

Apparently you sent a defense attorney on vacation.

And yeah, so she did some dirty tricks.

Oh so she's out and she's fired, and now she has to take the loft off the market.

They have a floir.

I just it's so embarrassing.

Okay, they have a flirty goodbye.

She skips off.

It doesn't seem like I think she comes from money.

So then Benson and Sadlor goes straight to Crumholtz and say why did you agree to crime you didn't commit?

And he smiles and goes for the cause, I got to be on TV.

So they show all these photos of people at the party to be like, well, who who here had access to your mushrooms?

And then when it's a photo of Emma, he starts stuttering and they all notice, so they leave.

But then they see him rush off, and so they follow him and they follow him right to Emma's house where she goes a vinny get out of here, and they see them and they're they're like, oh, my god, both of you lied.

And then Granny comes down and goes, you know this man, and so then they arrest both of them, of course accomplices, and Grammy's like, you murdered her, and they take them away and he screams, no, it was all me.

I did it.

So now we're in cement room bars, we're back.

Baby Benson's in the room with him.

They talk mushroom science and he's messing up and they know he didn't do it, so it's they just have to figure something out to get, you know, to justice.

So then Emma stole them from the lab and she's with Stabler saying she never went to his lab, but they already searched her room and found a bag of mushrooms that were like the same ones that killed Lindsay, like to not get rid of the evidence from your room.

I just the Hubris.

He's not gonna yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, No it's hers, Yeah, I know it's hers.

She's stupid.

Yeah, I was gonna say, he's not going to get rid of his little precious children.

But she's dumb.

Yeah, she's dumb.

So how who're on the Grammy side?

Okay, so then how did they meet, and it's a back and forth, like you know when they go back and forth between the rooms.

So so basically, Emma started going to water rights meetings and we know Professor was there and he just felt such a fire in her eyes for the environment.

Emma spilled the beans to the professor about how her grandma and Lindsay were making deals in the Catskills, that the woman was buying up all this upstate land and then selling the water rights to Lindsay and Cola now, and she begged her grandmother not to sell this to Lindsay.

But you know, she's just an amazing woman and Emma's just a screw up.

And it's like, well they both went to rehab.

Yeah, like why is one amazing and one not?

They both went to rehab, Well, only one has a gift for corporate giving, you know that's the problem.

And it cuts to him telling Benson she's not a screw up.

She's a subtle person in a loud world.

I like beautiful, it's beautiful.

He really likes her.

Benson realizes he's in love with her and that's why he pled guilty.

And he says, like, no, the soapbox, I care but yeah, we're in love.

And then it hops over to Emma and she's like love and my family loves about being at the right event and a right dress and gossiping.

But she never got that, but Lindsay did, and you know that it was Grandma's dream girl, and so you killed her and she denies killing her, and then he really twists the knife and goes, I bet if Lindsay was here, Grandma would have shown up and seen if she was okay, huh, And Emma knows it's true, so she tears up and he goes, let's see.

So he opens the door, all theatrical walks around the priestinct comes back and goes, yeah, no Grandma here.

She really doesn't care about you, does she?

And Emma goes she loves me, and Sabah goes, like you love Vinnie and Stabler calls him odd and she says he's not odd, he's just his own person.

I think that's the definition of odd.

So then Stabler replies, like, you just used him for mushrooms, you didn't actually like him.

And then we realized that Vinnie is behind the spyglass.

Vinnie and Benson are watching all of this and she walks up to the mirror and goes, Vinnie, I'm sorry, and Stabler's like, bitch, you're sorry.

You saw him get arrested and you said nothing.

And she says, Vinnie, I love you, and Saba goes, yeah, you mean it so much you were gonna let him do your prison time for you.

She starts getting short of breath.

She's stressed out, and she keeps repeating I can't, I can't.

And he goes, what confessed to murdering the mother of a nine year old?

And you know he wants to get in there, and Benson goes, not a chance, but also have some self respect, and so they take the spy feature off the glass and they make them look at each other through the window.

Very all stars too.

Fifi O'Hara, Alyssa, I.

Bought a comea and she apologizes for not saying anything, and he goes, no, I know, I know, and he's crying too, and finally she snaps and goes, I killed that two faced bitch.

She's like, you think that bitch cared about me.

She used me to get to my grandma, and as soon as that bitch died, I'm garbage.

Granny never cared about me.

She never cared about me.

My grandma's never said one fucking nice word to me, no ounce of love.

And she's like, there never was any love.

And then she walks back and he and he's like, oh, it wasn't about water, it was about revenge.

So like he thought she was just passionate about water too, and she says, the only water you're going to see is tears.

That's the stupidest thing Benson's ever said.

And then he runs off and tries to get in and opens the door, tries to push back Stabler, and while Stabler and Benson are holding him back, Busy, she grabs the bag of mushrooms and starts eating them.

And she's being dipped by Stabler now, and he's trying to get them out of her mouth like she's a golden retriever and like ripping these mushrooms out of her mouth and screaming at her, and she's like, tell Grammy, her problem child is dead.

And then you know, she's gasping, holding onto Stabler.

Crumb holds is watching an agony.

He's like, Oh, I hope this bitch lives, you know, And then Benson and Stabler are now standing over her.

She is alive.

She wakes up in the hospital and they go, well, look who's here.

And Grammy walks into the doorway and she goes, oh my god, you came.

And Emma's like so happy even though she was in a prison.

The grandma stands over and goes, of course I came.

And then Emma puts her hand on the grandma and to try to explain herself, and the grandma.

Says, you will take your hands off of me.

And Emma's like taken aback by that, and she said and then she goes, you are not my grandchild.

I came only for my necklace, and then takes it off her neck.

Benson goes, you're taking that.

She could sell that to pay for a defense attorney, and Emma goes, I would never do that, and then Grammy is like sure, like how you would never steal my Mercedes or lose your virginity at fifteen or stuff that garbage up your nose?

Do you want me to do this whole one because I kind of love it, hey, okay, And then the grandma goes like, you would never steal my Mercedes or lose your virginity at fifteen or stuff that garbage up your nose, Like I.

Loved doing this lipstick so much because she's so wild.

She's so evil, she's so mean.

I wish Emma had some Ah, poor Emma, but she's crying.

She says I'm sorry, and Granny doesn't even look at her and turns around, and the detectives are like like they are confused by the cruelty.

And then she goes, I'm giving this necklace to Lindsay's daughter.

You will inherit nothing And Emma's like, you think I care about money, Like I just wanted a mom.

And then she says, yes, well she died.

It's like my favorite line of the entire series.

I just wanted a mom.

Yes well she died.

And it's like, isn't that your daughter?

Like yeah, she's so heartless.

It's fucking you know.

I love this entire genre of old rich ladies in SVU with Angela Lansberry.

This woman, you know, we've got so many Michael, the woman that we interviewed from Dahmer, like all these people and this woman really smashes it.

Well, yeah she does.

You know.

She wants off, and Vinnie is there with flowers and the detectives are shocked to see him, but he's there for Emma and they're like, she was gonna go to jail for you, and then he goes Nobody's perfect, which has to be a sun like at hot reference, Like it has to because there was that pretty woman reference from up top, Like this is just so up to the top, this is the best.

Well, yeah, with Neil Bear too, it feels like it would be a it's not like it hot too.

And then the detectives are dumbfounded again.

They're like okay, like they've seen everything twisted, everything dark, and they're like eyes bugged out, like okay, I guess her work here is done, and they're you know, they're left flirting.

I'm sure he'll visit her in prison, and that's dick Wolf baby, and.

Then Emma becomes Badison in prison and she fucking beats the shit out of people.

Well, because because this was so Neil Bear and so theatric I was like who wrote it?

And the writers it says dick Wolf and Speedweed.

Ah, they let Speedweed do an episode.

Yes, those are the two that are credited, which is crazy to me.

Wow, it makes sense to me that someone named Speedweed wrote this episode because it's so fucking why it's so much more unhinged than like other episodes.

You know.

Yeah, so whereas other writers might have been like, this goes kind of against the tone of the show, this gets a little bit crazy, Speedweed's like, let's try this, you know, like they were letting Speedweed.

Dick Wolf was taking Speedweed.

Under his wing there, I think a little bit.

I didn't know if this episode was based on anything real, and I'm still not convinced, but I've got a couple of stories that I know it definitely borrowed from.

Here's what's crazy.

Okay, So Sassoon is based on a couple of things.

The guy that was, you know, the red herring, that was the guy snipping the hair in the park.

Okay.

So the nineteen eighty six case of Jack the Snipper was in Los Angeles in nineteen eighty six.

Starting in February, a perpetrator that the LAPD called Jack the Snipper would ambush women in Southeast LA and snip off locks of their hair.

As of July of nineteen eighty six, there had been eight attacks.

The attacker struck in the neighborhoods of Norwalk, Downy, Bellflower, Commerce and Maywood.

All of the victims were female.

The majority were Latina or Asian with long, dark hair like long, long long.

Three of the victims were miners, including a nine year old girl, which is super terrifying and creepy.

Many were waiting for the bus or walking to work, and most of them say they remember seeing the guy a few days before being attacked.

One victim told the La Times, I walked by and then he passed by very close.

He turned around right away.

I saw the blade and scissors.

I began to scream.

He told me to shut up and said, if you call the police, I'm going to follow you.

End quote Detective Steve Davis, who was with the Norwalk Sheriff's Department.

Walk is like a neighborhood over by lax Like.

I didn't know they had like their own sheriff's department, but whatever the eighties, he told La Times.

It's hard to say what his motivation is.

The consensus is he has a hair fetish.

He was probably getting a sexual thrill from doing this.

This is a sicko.

He's like a time bomb waiting to go off.

End of quote.

They also said they thought he might be selling the hair, but then, of course hair experts are like, you know, people are not buying random swatches of hair from people off the street, like you're buying professional You're.

Buying real human hair.

You're buying it from usually from overseas, and you're buying enough to like make full wigs, not just like one snip that some guy grabbed in like a park.

So they were looking for a guy, white male, about thirty years old, between one hundred and seventeen hundred and eighty pounds, light brown, wavy hair, dresses in blue shirts, pants, work boots, and they described his vehicle as a black mini truck with orange and yellow pinstripes.

But as far as I could tell, they never found this sky.

I don't think something was in the air in nineteen eighties, because I found another article about a guy doing this same thing in Charlottesville, Virginia in November of that same year.

So this is like, you know, they're still looking for this guy as of June and July.

In November, some guy starts doing this Jack the snippershit at UVA and he's described as a well dressed young man who might have even been a student at UVA who cut the hair of six women who were studying at the UVA Library.

They increased security, but I couldn't find if they ever found this guy.

Then what's wild is there's another guy doing it in LA in two thousand and one, and this guy is called the hair Bandit.

But is this a fetish?

Is this?

Like?

What is it?

Yeah?

But what's wild is this guy I'm gonna talk about gets arrested in Norwalk, which is the same area of LA.

So I'm like, is this the guy from nineteen eighty six?

Like they don't.

They call this guy the hair Bandit, different name, and they get him for nine attacks that he does between December fourth and December thirty first, two thousand and one.

He was forty eight when they got him, so he could have easily been in his late twenties doing this.

They were looking for a guy around thirty, so it really could be the same fucking guy from eighty six.

They say that in any of the stuff that I found, and they're calling him a different name.

They're not like, Wow, we found the old Jack the Snipper.

They're calling this guy the hair bandon and he's done these attacks are much closer together.

This is like nine attacks in less than four weeks, just in the month of December two thousand and one.

And he would cut women's hairs with with hair with scissors or knives while they stood or walked in public.

Some of the victims actually got neck injuries from how hard he like snatched their hair back during the attacks.

And they found the guy.

His name is Michael Howard, a forty eight year old bike shop owner, and he was arrested on January first, two thousand and two, Happy New Year, after the day after his last attack.

And I don't know if they the police didn't actually find him.

His brother, a probation officer, heard about this the hair bandit and immediately called the police and was like, I think this is my brother who had been plagued with drug problems.

And the brother just was like I knew it was him.

It was hard, but I like turned him in.

So Howard was arrested in Norwalk, which I think is wild because it's same place as the eighty six guy.

He was charged with ten felony counts, nine robberies which is the hair and one lude act against a minor because one of his victims was a twelve year old girl, so it's like he's also going for kind of like you know, nine, ten, eleven, twelve year old girls, he's also taking from women.

I feel like it's the same dude.

This guy tried to make a deal, Like they went back and forth.

He finally took a deal for eight years in prison.

So yeah, the hair bandit got eight years, and he's gonna get more of the time than did he Yeah, exactly.

And I can't imagine prison was kind to a guy who's like in there for like hair cutting.

I'm sure that people were like, oh, you're you're like, we're gonna hurt you.

Now, like a violent crime.

You know, like it is fucked.

You can't just be cutting people's hair.

But then what do you run off?

Like yeah, but like it doesn't I mean it's the jerking, Like it doesn't cause like physical pain, I mean mentally, like obviously that's traumatic to have to have your haircut, but it's wild, Like, but you're right, he's probably getting more time than like several rapists we've covered on this show, like full on like predators.

But the next case that we saw that I saw was You're smiling.

She's smiling based on it's an old timey one.

Okay, we don't know old timey very much, but and it's not even that old timey.

It's it's like the eighteen nineties, okay.

So, and I think it's loose.

I think this is loose.

It's kind of got a poisoning element, but it's not similar in any other way.

But it's fun.

I want to cover it.

Okay.

So, in eighteen ninety five, Cordelia Botkin was living in California and she was married to a guy named Welcome Botkin.

His name is Welcome, like welcome back.

And they've got a son, but he's grown.

She married this guy when she was like seventeen or eighteen, and at this point she's like forty, she's a forty one.

Okay, she's kind of bored.

Her son has grown, her husband doesn't pay much attention to her, like they're still married.

She does whatever the fuck she wants.

She drinks, she carouses, she like lives her life.

They live in I believe they live in Stockton, but she spends a lot of time in San Francisco kind of doing her own thing.

And so one time in San Francisco.

She meets John Preston Dunning and he is a fetorig war real name John Preston.

Yeah wow, so mister her own mister big.

Okay, she meets her own mister big.

John Preston Dunning is a foreign war correspondent for the Associated Press who had returned to San Francisco to run their West Coast bureau.

So this is not like a extra extra read all about it like journalists.

This is like a he's a legit, like running a bureau.

Of the AP.

Okay.

And he is not only a respected reporter, but a gambler, a drunk, and a notorious cheater and womanizer.

Okay he is.

He is mister big.

Yeah, he's mister Big.

So Cordelia, it's everything but the cigars we've got here.

So Cordelia is forty one, Dunning is thirty two.

They're both married, but he meets her and he's immediately obsessed.

Okay.

By eighteen ninety six they're having a full fledged affair.

Dunning's wife is over it.

She goes back to Delaware with her kid to live with her father, who's a former congressman.

Okay, these are high level people.

Cordelia and her husband.

There's not like Cordelia is there.

I don't know.

I actually I know some I know a Cordelia.

But Cordelia and her husband they're like a strange but like not really like he's supporting her financially.

I don't think he gives a fuck what she's doing.

Really Like, I think he realizes he's older, she's younger.

He's in his late fifties by this point, I think, and he's like, she give me my son whatever.

We had good times and she can just go do her thing.

So he's supporting her financially.

Dunning is, like I said, a drunk and a gambler.

So he gets fired from his job at the AP for stealing four thousand dollars to pay off gambling debts, which you have to imagine in the eighteen nineties is like a lot of fucking money, right, four grand Other newspapers fire him for being a drunk, so he just keeps.

So he ends up moving into Cordelia's hotel with her.

By March of eighteen ninety eight, they've now been in this affair for two or three years now.

Dunning gets re hired by the AP to report on the Spanish American War, and Cordelia takes him to the train station in Oakland to like bid him farewell, like they're in love.

And it's there that he drops the bomb and he goes, oh, by the way, babe, I'm not coming back after the war.

I'm getting back together with my wife and I'm going to live in Delaware.

Bye, and like he wants to go back to his wife and daughter, and he just like that's the rams, that's the risk of Yes, yeah, you leave him how you found him, or you found him you you lose them how you found them, As they say in a lot of the Housewives, you lose them how you found them.

Like if you started in an affair with someone and then they ended up getting with you, you know, chances are they're going to have an affair at some point again.

So bye.

H.

Cordelia is of course distraught.

She's upset that her lover has left her, and she goes full woman scorned.

Okay.

She starts sending letters to Dunning's wife, Mary Elizabeth Dunning, trolling her about these affairs that he's having, like making up women.

Like in one of the letters, she wrote, your husband is quote constantly with this interesting and pretty woman, who, by the way, is an English woman.

She is now divorcing from her husband, all owing to the market intimacy with mister Dunning end quote.

So like she's like, you know, trolling writing these letters.

Then on August ninth, eighteen ninety eight, Mary Elizabeth receives a package with a note.

Inside is an elegant white box wrapped in pink satin ribbon, and the word Bombbonds is written in gold script on the box, and the note says, with love to yourself and baby missus C.

Nobody talks about who missus C is.

But this is what I'm reading everywhere is the is the inscription and apparently Elizabeth Mary Elizabeth is a big candy fan.

Okay, So she eats three pieces of the candy.

Her forty four year old sister Ida eats two pieces of the candy.

They put the rest away to save for later.

She immediately gets sick, so does her sister, and after two days of agonizing torture, they both die of arsenic poisoning.

Okay, yeah, Mary Elizabeth's father, a former US congressman I mentioned he recognizes the handwriting on the note from the candy box.

Looks familiar.

They match it to these anonymous letters that she's been receiving, So whoever sent these letters has sent the candy.

The news of the wife's death gets to Dunning, John Preston Dunning in Puerto Rico.

He promptly catches a ship home.

Reporters are waiting for him there and if anyone knows about getting a story, it's this guy.

He admitted to having three affairs in San Francisco, but he felt like, deep down, Cordelia is the one that could have done this.

Police found that the candy came from a shop in San Francisco, and that led them to Cordelia Bodkin at her home in San Francisco.

She was living at this hotel.

She had an apartment at the Hotel Victoria.

They found paper string and a seal from the candy box that showed that she had basically, you know, cut off the string to open the box, put the arsenic in the chocolates, and then sealed it back up.

And they found her at her husband's house in Stockton and the police asked her.

She asked the police if she could please pack a trunk of clothes before going off to jail.

And it was so heavy that two deputies had to carry it out.

So this woman is wild.

Okay, she got to prison, yeah, I guess so, yeah, she got to bring some clothes to jail.

And this was the second murder by mail ever in American history, and it's the first American prosecution of a crime across jurisdictions like this because the poison was purchased and sent from California but ingested in Delaware.

Wow.

So she went to trial in eighteen ninety eight, she was convicted.

She, of course, like any person with money, appealed, was retried, was convicted again in nineteen oh four, entrance to life, and she was sent to prison in San Francisco, But after the earthquake in nineteen oh six, she was moved to San Quentin and she died there in nineteen ten.

Her lover, John Dunning, John Preston Dunning, his career was in ruins after all the details of the affair were revealed during the trial, and he died.

In nineteen oh eight in Philadelphia.

Dude, the thought of this.

Like upper class rich woman in San Quentin is like wild, yeah, yeah, and like so.

It's kind of like it's got rich people, it's got poison and that's kind of the only and candy.

Oh well, well well mushroom, yeah, yeah, those are the toys.

The ties to the mushroom A wet episode.

But I don't know, something about like the old timiness of it does make it seem less real, where I'm like ooh, what I.

Know, And also just like the trustingness of like getting random package of candy in the mail and going okay, yum yum and like eating it, you know, like yeah, like that's not a modern story.

Like no, or it's like was she even like that?

How was missus c.

Yeah?

Was it even a holiday?

No?

It was August, I mean a little pre labor day chocolate.

I don't know, damn.

But this is like, you know, there's old pictures of Cordelia, like bugshots of her, and like she's is she a hottie?

She?

Well, I wouldn't.

I don't know.

I wouldn't really say that, not the way that she is illustrated and also photographed.

No, she doesn't come across as that.

But I think that she was probably kind of like body and like and had like a sort of independence and like sexual freedom to her.

That probably a lot of other women didn't have because their husbands were like weighing on them, and her husband was kind of like, do your thing, girl, I'll be in Stockton, like by you think he was gay?

I don't know.

They have the one son.

He grew up.

She was done being like a mom, and she was kind of like, all right, time for some affairs and some party in San Francisco.

Wow, But like all the lawyers are like, you know, mustaches.

Boy isn't the guy.

I know?

But it's like she probably thought, if she got rid of the wife somehow, what if my dads ate it, What if a bunch of what if they were being a dinner party?

She could have murdered twelve people.

I know.

I think she probably wasn't thinking, and she was doing it through full jealousy, and she thought, if I can get rid of this woman, he'll come back to me.

I don't know.

Oh my god, I just read this thing that she died in prison in nineteen ten, and the official cause of death is the most fucking old timey thing I've ever heard, softening of the brain due to melancholia.

So her brain got soft because she was so sad about getting dumped becoming a murderer and then getting got and imprisoned, so that Melancholia just softened her little brain.

Right up, damn nuts, and stay tuned, guys, because we have a jam packed guest.

Than you ever take candy from a stranger.

We have a jam pack guest.

Don't go anywhere.

We have a great guest.

Our guest today.

Oh my god, I'm so excited we got him.

He is a beloved actor who's been part of our lives for over thirty years.

You may know him from his early roles in iconic films like Adam's Family Values, The Ice Storm, The Santa Claus and Ten Things I Hate About You, Delta's most played movie.

He also recently has been in movies like Oppenheimer and the series The Studio.

But you know him best as our little mushroom man, doctor Vincent pro Chick.

Please enjoy our chat with the hilarious David Crumholtz.

This seems like a long time coming because we do this episode at our live shows.

It's one of our mainstays.

So we've talked about you a lot.

I'm in a lot of different city just waiting for this moment.

How do people react in different cities.

Well, when you bring me up, well.

This episode, will you specifically everybody?

Yeah, everybody loves this episode.

It's iconic, it's campy, it's glass.

So I would saying I hate about you.

Oh that's that's kind of that's our audience.

So that gets people really riled up.

Where did this?

Like, I mean, your your career.

Goes back so long, and like this feels like it kind of falls in between.

Like you're doing the show Numbers and you're like a regular on Numbers and then you're but like you're popping into doing SVU, Like how did this come to you?

This was after Numbers had ended?

Okay, uh and not too soon after, but not you know, a good couple of years, I would guess.

And uh, yeah I did not audition.

Hell yeah, I'm a New York, New York, New York.

So they came and got me, which is very nice of them.

I had done an episode of the original Law in Order when I was fifteen years old.

I don't remember were that young, dah yea.

I was in nineteen eighty three.

I look eight years old in it, but I'm fifteen cool and so then yeah, they came and got me and I said, without a doubt I would do it fun part, and you know, being part of that whole universe for a second time was really thrilling.

The idea of that was really thrilling to me.

Getting to work with marishka iced Tea, who's amazing, Chris uh just you know, you know, you just know that it's going to be a lot of fun.

And that episode was really quirky and weird and kind of loved that it wasn't too dramatic or serious.

You know, Yeah, just one dead woman, so that's good.

Just one dead old woman, one dead woman.

And yeah, she's at the beginning and it's yeah, she's.

Evil and she's trying to take water away from people.

Yeah.

And by the way, I did another episode fairly recently.

Yeah, us for you, so they seem to like me.

Yeah, did you note, like, did you notice any big differences from when you did it in like twenty ten versus doing it again in like twenty thirteen.

I mean, now, obviously Christopher Maloney's gone, mart is kind of like the big.

Well the law in order set.

Their crew, that's the most well oiled crew ever.

You know, they've been doing the show for what is it twenty seven, twenty eight years now?

Almost?

I mean six right now?

Yeah, okay, but they're renewed for two more years or three years.

It's just they they blink and make television, you know what I mean.

Like it's so the days are lovely, the freedom.

You just don't get that on any other crime procedural, any other broadcast network show.

It's just show up and let's have fun with it.

Because at this point they're well past the point, let's say, of jumping the shark or gilding the lily as a show.

So they're very interested in finding like the juicy new They're always looking for, like, what's the new thing we can do to keep ourselves fascinated.

You know, they really do make law and order for not only their adoring audience, but themselves.

I think they think that, you know, and they have that's the right attitude, which is, if we're entertained, if we keep this interesting for ourselves, then our audience will will love it.

And it seems to be working to the tune of two more seasons at least what I said, and.

The longest running live action show on television.

I think, yeah, yes, so I think ever right, yeah, live action.

I think, who are they against Bonanza or something like back in the I don't think at times like yeah, olden times Bonanza.

So wait, what happened?

Like, so the second episode you did was in was it like it was last year?

So did you like, at this point you're doing Oppenheimer, You're in all these like movies, but they come back to you for law and orders for you and you're like.

I'm there for this second episode.

Well, no doubt about it, regardless of what the situation was.

But the situation was that I hadn't worked for nine straight months because of the sag actors.

Right, Okay, I.

Have two children, I have a dog and two cats.

Now it's a no brainer.

You don't say no to law.

No, you just don't say no.

Yeah, and if you do, you know who my precious.

I mean, you know, I'm not like that.

It's a New York staple.

I get to work in New York, I get to play in New Yorker.

It's you know, we shot in Queens.

I'm from Queens.

I mean it's a no brainer.

Yeah, every time, it's a no brainer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The people, the showrunners, the directors in that case was Norbit or Barbara just wonderful people.

You know.

Did you ever live in LA or did you always New York?

Yeah?

I lived in LA for fifteen years.

What made you go back?

I wanted to establish some trace of humanity in myself, not find it.

It had been stamped out.

I needed to re establish.

It was a rebirth when I moved back LA.

Just and I we had our romantic period and it was very nice, it was, and then it got dark quick for me there and I yeah, yeah, I got the heck out of Dodge Plus in the nineties.

When I moved out to LA in the late nineties early two thousands, the only thing shooting in New York on a regular basis were the Lower Norman.

Everything else had left town, you know, there was nothing, and so it made no sense to stay in New York.

I needed to go pay my dues and get work in LA.

But when I you know, fifteen years later, you know, with the tax credit, the work had returned in abundance to New York, and I thought, well, I need to go home, you know, be with my family, go home and raise my children here and yees.

So I want to ask you, since you live in New Jersey.

Do you have run ins with the Real Housewives of New Jersey ever?

Yeah?

Have you seen them out and about fighting at restaurants, flipping tables, throwing wine at each other's faces.

They are one of the most out of pocket franchises.

Yeah.

I've only seen one of them out in the wild, and she's the normal one.

Jakile.

Oh, Kathy, I don't know.

Kathya, whose husband is riotously funny.

She owns she owns a pizza place, and I saw her there the other day.

I once ran into Caroline Manzo now there now we're talking in the city at an industry party, and she was clear.

She she had a look on her face of deep misery.

Her life had been ruined by the show.

It was clear.

So I didn't approach her.

But then she on her sister's husband.

I don't know about that.

And then I and then we met, uh who's the Gorgas Joe, And I was amazed by how tiny they are.

Oh yeah, Joe's like five five two.

Yeah, and she's like five feet yeah.

Tiny, little you know, hobbit hobbiton hobbit type, you know, little Italian American hobbit.

Wow, Oh my god, now did you know who they were?

It's someone have to tell you.

No.

I watched that show.

I watched the first three seasons, like religiously.

It's the best Real Housewives of all of them.

And I I love the New York one.

I loved the Beverly Hills one.

This is the other one life, but Real Housewives of New Jersey, come on, that's the best one.

Well, I would say the Steaks are the highest because of them, the familial aspect, the darkness.

But I would say in terms of comedy, New York just they get so drunk.

I like New York, right, I.

Like New York too.

But the thing is, here's why I like New Jersey.

And this is true of New Jersey.

Very little irony.

Oh you can't do it, Metapore they take it for.

Which is weird because New York is like Irony Central and just you know, ten miles away, you're you know, there's no And so that show works on a sort of meta level of understanding that woll these people are shockingly real people.

You know.

Yeah, well this last season, I know you've been out of the game for a while.

But the biggest controversy was someone called someone else's slob.

And it costs chaos, and we're like, that doesn't even seem like that bad.

Oh I'm a slot.

Let me tell you about your slob husband.

And my family.

Oh well, where I grew up.

Slob didn't mean anything like that.

Like it's oh then too, because I don't mean to be insulting them in any way, but they're not aspirational to me.

Like the Beverly Hills, New York.

They've got some gorgeous houses, apartments, cars.

The people in New Jersey, I'm like, I don't want to live in one of these architectural nightmares where there's too many pointed columns.

But you know, and the pools are not.

But like, you know, I'm not so I'm able since I'm not like really jealous of the marble columns or the you know, granted, like the marble countertops.

I'm like, I can just folk on the behavior.

And the interactions, you know, I can really focus.

In on them and who they are.

No, the truth is they've they've made it in their opinions to the highest level they can, and so they're then they have it's a pain in the ass for them to have to deal with the rest of their lives, specifically their family members, including each other.

Right, they're not dealing with Oh I didn't get that business deal or I wish i'd you know, met that you know important person.

No, they're really mired in.

Don't you dare come near me?

You've disrespected me.

Everything is like you disrespected palace.

Right, you walk into this palace, You've better be on your best behavior.

Bitch.

You know it's that.

Have you not been on Watch What Happens Live?

No?

I just googled it.

No, No, I've not been on anything.

That's great.

It's amazing that you.

I think if they knew that you liked if they knew that you liked Bravo, they'd have you.

I think they like to have straight men on who like the shows.

I'm not making a I'm trying.

Not trying to make a qualification about your sexual mind.

Carot My uh following if I have a following event is such a deep sub subculture.

I am truly iconic, if anything, for being invisible.

No one gives a shit what I have to say.

And when I'm on talk shows, people are like, why am I being subjected to a complete nobody?

Like when I you know what I inspire when people have I inspire total non talents to be like, oh, this guy can be on a talk.

That's so insane because you're in like though Oscar winning movie.

Yeah, you're just in the Oscar winning movie.

You're in this new Jeremy Allen White Springsteen biopic that everyone's freaking wet in their pants over like you're you.

Your IMDb is extensive, which I want to get into first of all.

I'm also but the thing is that everybody has to understand is this uh and you'll find this this will be your lowest rated as no doubt about the name.

Now here's what I've come to learn.

The name crumb holds.

The name crumb Holds is so jarring to people because they read it and they go, how could any celebrity or any one of any notoriety keep the name crumb holds.

This can't be a famous person.

This is some random PA that worked on the show for two episodes.

You know, Like the name crumb Holds schisms people's brain.

I know it does with mine.

Actually, a few weeks ago, I'm not kidding.

I had a very serious conversation this late into my career, and I mean dead serious with my representation about changing my name to David Crumb because I was like, I think it'll be like cuter and it has more succinct, and it has a ring, it has a thing to it.

David Crumb.

Dave Crumb and my agents were like, do.

Not do that.

Don't do that.

You have one hundred and thirty two IMDb credits with six you wanted like the Parenthesy Crumb holds.

You know, well maybe, But I thought to myself, you know they're wrong.

I'm going rogue.

And I went so far as to reach out to SAG and ask them if I can do it, and they said yes, and that scared me.

Oh god, I'm not doing it, but you'll see my Instagram.

So that day it was I'm very compulsive, impulsive, compulsive, And that day I changed my Instagram name to David Crumb and I've been trying to change it back and it won't.

I'm still at Oh, if this is recently, I'll tell you what it's.

It's a thirty day thing if you're verified.

So I started because I know who just changed it as a fluke his name to Cia and now he can't change it back to thirty for thirty.

That's terrible.

I'm going to try to do it right now because I've been trying.

Yeah, you're David Crumb on there.

Yeah, I'm David.

Yeah, I'm suching my connect at Watch What Happens Live?

Thanks?

Can we ask you though?

Like, so, your career, according to Wikipedia, was and I know that's not always correct, was kicked off when you just went to like an open audition when you were thirteen, and that's how you just jumped into this long career of child acting and into adult acting.

Yeah, it's super weird that such a it's very I see, it is very sort of uh divine in a way.

Not I'm not joking, like somebody saved my life, you know, some spirit.

It was meant to be because I.

Would have been a trash heap of a human being had I not become an actor.

So so, yes, that happened.

I got crazy, which is hard only when people ask me like how do you get into the business?

How'd you get in?

And I'm always like, my story literally apply, you know.

Yeah, and then you're after you did this play on Broadway.

You the first movie you made, I think is called Life with Mikey which my uncle is in.

So I've seen it a thousand times that I love.

And you were like a little child star in the movie.

But it's like your first movie you ever made, right, are you like a little child star?

Yes?

I play an obnoxious Yeah.

So what typical came to set with you.

On that one?

And how did they behave throughout your childhood on sets?

Oh?

Okay, my my my mother.

It was mostly my mother.

Once in a while my dad would come.

My mother.

Uh what a questions?

Oh, we love child actor stuff.

I gotta be careful.

My mother liked being the center of attention herself.

Aw, and my mother has is one of these.

She's a New Yorker but born and hungry, and she has a very She doesn't mince her words, and so she likes to sort of be the you know, cursing mom, the nasty cursing mom.

She was lovely and she's a lot of fun, but she tells it like it is, and so she would come to the set and embarrass me to no end daily, but in the most loving, funny way.

But it was the kind of thing like one time she was talking, I remember I did a TV show, my first TV show, I did, and Henry Winkler played my father, and we were sitting at lunch one day and she said something in Henry Winkler that deeply embarrassed me, and I kicked her under the table, not hard, but I gave her like a kick in the leg under the table, and she went, what are you kicking me for?

He's kicking me under the table.

You know, she's that kind of mom.

And I'm like, I don't tell people I'm kicking.

But she had a lot of fun.

She was fun, and she had a lot of fun, and we travel together, and you know, she was she was great.

And my dad would come and you know, being on a set when you really just visiting is crazy boring.

And my dad was kind of on a lot of high blood pressure medication and so which rendered him somewhat narcoleptic, and he would fall asleep a lot and snore.

And so there were times I remember where I'd be on set filming in the middle of a take and the set sound guy would be like, we have to hold because someone is snoring on set, and it would.

Always be yeah, oh my god, But like your IMDb is so wild.

It's like this life with Mikey movie, which important to me and maybe no one else.

Law and Order immediately, Adam's family values iconic.

Then the Santa Claus you looks like your fourth professional credit is like this character that sort of established you.

Then I got to ask you later, you do the Ice Storm filmed in my town?

Filmed in my hometown.

It completely shook our whole town.

We all went to go watch scenes be shot.

It was like, were you in New Canaan, Connecticut shooting any of that?

Or were you in the scenes that.

Were all in Manhattan.

Yeah, it was in the scenes.

All this, all the repressed suburban shit was in my hometown.

Oh my god, I saw Christina Ricci.

I almost died.

It was like we were we were having heart attacks.

But that was like your thing, out of the kid, out of the kid world you were moving into more adults.

Were incredible, Like as a kid.

Or are you like, oh my god, truthfully, you want to know the truth.

That's a good question.

So first off, I thought, oh, this is what it's what it is to be an actor.

You just worked constant Yeah, right, I had been discovered off the street, so I didn't know anything, but you know, consistent success for the first four years, and I thought, oh, that's what it's going to be.

And then you know, I remember when I was seventeen, I had like a good nine months of unemployment and it really was the moment where I decided to become an actor.

I'd never really decided.

I just got lucky, so suddenly I had to be like, is this what I want to do?

Where it's where this huge rollercoaster that has its ups and downs, And so that was a tough moment.

Did I think I was awesome too much?

So?

Yes, And I remember, yes, I had a massive ego about my acting when I was young, because I went from being literally not even wanting to be an actor to suddenly being a consistently working actor in movies.

And you know, I grew up worshiping movies, so suddenly I was in them and it was just mind blowing.

At the same time, I understood how lucky I was, so that, thank God tempered my ego a bit.

And my mom, to her great credit, would always say, this is a fluke, this is a fluke, this is a fluke.

You're you don't understand how lucky you were.

And thank God, because she was worried I would get a massive ego, And yeah, I would say until I was about this is just true.

Until I was about twenty three, I thought, not only am I the greatest actor that ever lived, but I'm the greatest that will ever live.

I mean, you know, I was twenty three.

Do you remember the shift?

Yeah, I think I did a couple of failed multiicam sitcoms.

Yeah, and those will really bring it down earth, because you know, you're you're you're slinging not so great jokes that you didn't write to a live audience that isn't laughing.

I mean that's kind of like that's when you realize, oh, to some extent, I'm a puppet and you know, like you know, I'm just a jobbing actor, feather in the wind.

And for a while I didn't like that very much, but now I love it now.

Now it's and I do it with great humility and gratitude now because because you know, I have to deal with myself at the end of the day, right, and I have to come home and keep myself to a certain standard, both as an actor and as a dad and as a human being.

Right.

So yeah, I mean, yeah, do you have one before I bring up ten things I hate about you.

No, go ahead, Well, I mean that's like I watch that on most of my Delta flights.

I would say I watched that a few times a year.

I'm like, I love that movie.

It's stood the test of time, and it's a classic that like people just love it.

Never never went away, such iconic scenes.

It was so good.

Do you have memories that were positive?

I'd imagine that it's the most watched Delta flight movie ever.

It's the first one if there were Delta flight ratings.

Yeah, it's the.

First thing that pops up.

Yeah, yeah, right, because it's a number.

Well eight mile, but.

No, I'm not watching eight mile in the skies.

But no, it would be the first thing because it's one zero.

I don't know how that works.

But can numbers go in number order?

I don't know how it works.

But anyway, I have so many positive stories.

That was just the blast of all time.

You know, the the movie surpassed every one of our expectation expectations.

The fact that it became as popular as it is now, you know, to this day, is really wild.

I think for all of us, we didn't know we were making something that would stand the test time and really mean a lot to people.

And it's a reflection, I believe, a reflection of how much we all truly loved making the movie with one another.

We all loved each other very much, and I think you can see that we're having fun with each other on screen.

You can see it.

And I think that's what people love most about it is, you know, because I know when I watch a movie, I imagine what it's like on that set, what it might have been like.

And I think people do that when they watch movies.

Is they're able to separate the fantasy from the reality and go, what do these actors talk about in between takes?

And you can just tell we all loved each other, And it was very true just that set was all smiles all the way through.

We just as people through and through that entire cast had amazing chemistry as people.

We just loved each other from moment one.

We spoke the same language, all of us.

So that's awesome.

No, someone recently, you know, one of my dreams is to go to the Vanity Fair Oscar party mine too.

By the way, they don't I don't get in last.

Year when you won.

That was two years ago, but two years, two years, no, I did not and they don't listen.

They don't like me, okay, nobody, the industry, the industry, you know what it is.

And I've come to realize I'm poor form.

I am poor form.

I make other actors look bad because I'm so unbelievably amazing and uh and so I'm an embarrassment.

Uh I am, I'm just an embarrassing.

I should not have been let in, you know, I am, I am?

I am the the the the what what what?

What?

What would I compare myself to?

You know, I must, I must.

I bet you're a type though.

I bet when you get auditions it's like Dave Cumholt.

Oh yeah right, oh yeah, no, they want to be me.

I mean, you're you wouldn't keep working if they if they really hated you and wanted you gone, you wouldn't be working so much.

You work, of course, I'm kidding.

Yeah, No, I don't embarrass other actors.

I'm embarrassed of myself most of the time.

But no, uh yeah, yeah, I don't get invited to I haven't been invited to ship.

They don't want I'm like bummy.

They see me and they go you know who let the Dog Out?

But well, the reason I brought it up is because someone was like, and I brought up a Lissa Oax prom outfit from that movie, Like, that's still my one of my dream outfits.

Yeah, and I would wear the Shakespeare outfit I wore in that movie, but no, you know what it is.

Also, then you'd.

Really never get invited again.

I've given up on that dream.

Oh yeah, I mean, but don't you feel it's like, but you're you know, you're in I.

Would love to be invited.

Yeah, but I also am credibly awkward at those kinds of things, and you know, but but you know, it's also absurd and it's really not why I do what I do.

And but that said, is there a sting to not being invited when you're in the movie that won the Academy for Best Yeah, there's a real sting to that, you know.

But as you can imagine, because I'm still talking about it.

You asked me the question twenty five minutes ago, and I'm still I'm trying to say something.

And what I'm trying to say is I come off, here's the problem.

You want to know the truth.

I don't only look like an agent's assistant.

But I have an agent's assistants personality.

And so.

What they don't need is yet another agent's assistant at the Vanity Fair Oscars part.

If an agent assistant got invited and not you, that makes all of it worse.

Oh, I'm sure you think there's assistance in there.

One.

There's definitely some riff raft padding out those parties for sure.

Not that I thought the Vanity Fair was more tight on that.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And here's the problem.

Whenever I am invited, this is dead true, by the way, whenever I am invited to these kinds of big parties, and you know, every once in a while, you know, uh, you know, they give it the they give the dog a bone.

I uh, I do feel like many of the people that are there who aren't familiar with my work readily assume that I am an agent's assistant.

No, they definitely think age.

I've aged.

I've aged, but not a good one.

There have been moments I was just saying, where I've had to tell actors that I'm an actor.

Yeah, yeah, I would read.

A lot of moment.

Yeah, I just can't believe nobody that's like remotely around our age doesn't know you from something that you've been in because you're just in all these seminal movies from our like anyone that's like from mid thirties to mid forties.

I feel, you know, I don't get it either, but I think it's more of they do know, but they choose to forget.

They've blocked it out.

That's right.

Do you have any like other memories of like being on set at SVU like that our listeners would appreciate, like little tidbits, something funny that happened with Iced Tea, a little a little LOL moment with Marishka or Chris Maloney.

I mean, you know something that our.

Well, Ice, I'll just say, Ice Teas are riot.

Yeah, he's brilliant.

And he told me the funniest Hollywood joke, or one of the funnier, more brilliant Hollywood jokes I've ever heard.

Do you want to hear it?

Okay, I'm paying it forward, Ice Tee uh he Okay.

So a world famous legendary film director suddenly dies, goes to heaven, meets Saint Peter at the Pearly Gates, and Saint Peter says, we are so happy to see you, and the director says, well, I'm not I'm not happy to be here.

I don't I didn't want to die, you know, I died suddenly, and Saint Peter goes, we know, we know.

But here's the deal.

God has chosen you to direct the first movie made in Heaven.

And the director is like, what, no, I don't know what.

I don't want to know.

I don't want to do that, and Saint Peter goes, well, hear me out, hear me out.

It's written by William Shakespeare, Production design Michaelangelo.

Okay, okay, it is.

You have your choice of male lead Sydney Poidier, Marlon Brando or you know, Laurence Oliviy and the guy you know.

The director thinks about it.

He goes, holy, wow, William Shakespeare my Clangeloin, yeah, randol Wow.

He goes, well, who's playing the female league?

And Saint Peter says, well, God has a girlfriend.

That's the joke.

It's a great joke.

Told me that joke, just not a joke you'd expect from from iced Tea.

You know, a a rapper or a gangster.

Is a girlfriend.

He's trying to get her in.

You get it.

It's a misogynt.

It's a joke about misogyny.

I shouldn't make jokes.

Yeah, this is this is the interview that ruins mind.

No, this is great.

We love this.

I love that Icy gave you that.

He We've heard so many great Ice cold facts that he's given different actors over the over the years, and he sees it and I just.

Want to say, going back, I would have been an amazing agent.

And my agents also agree, Yeah, they I would have been in a I should have been an age.

Are you playing an agent in?

Are you playing an agent in the studio?

The Studio?

Which is so good and funny.

It was the role I was born.

Yeah, because it's what I should be doing with my life.

Well, I'm certainly happy that you were in all of these movies that I've watched my entire life.

And like, I mean, so many more coming up.

You have so many like people about upcoming projects.

But you've got this Springsteen thing that's like, you know, everyone's talking about, and then there's any other anything else upcoming.

Oh wait, you were in Miracle on seventy fourth Street.

My friend Carol and Sean wrote that and I think you know produced it.

Carol Hartzell.

Right, yeah, they're wonderful.

I know that's from stand up in New York and stuff and that I've been well, I don't know when that's coming out, but maybe this Christmas.

Oh cool, that'd be amazing, right because it's holiday.

I know nothing.

Yeah, I don't know.

It is a holiday.

Yeah, yes, I don't know.

But that's funny.

I just saw that in your upcoming anything else you want to plug, Well, you got.

The super Girl and you got this one and that one.

But yeah, I I I don't.

I don't know because you know, I don't.

Yeah, yeah, no, I'm yeah, okay, great, great on Insta.

This will not be aired anywhere, correct, this is this is.

Only an No one's going to see your face.

See.

This is where I'm in trouble.

This is bad for me, and I'll tell you why because the voice and what I say will come off as real in terms of the ego stuff.

But no one will see how ashamed.

No one will see the shame in my eyes that you are witnessed to at this moment.

No, but listen, this has been wonderful.

It's like, thank you so much for talking to us.

Thank you for the Real Housewives of New Jersey tea and this so exciting and we were so happy.

It was the journey that I didn't expect.

I didn't have a journey, a career, reference everything, everything.

Y'all are awesome, y'all are wonderful.

I would say this is one of our best episodes ever.

I'm gonna say it.

I feel you got to do your incredible voice work.

And we had to talk.

He was so funny.

He was like so kind of self deprecating but self away, like I don't know.

It was just really like such a silly good time.

And his stories.

I mean, the way he talked about ten things I hate about you just makes my heart like her, like I don't know, just of course thinking about Heath Ledger, you know, but yeah, then they're all like pals.

But I was telling people because I was so excited, and I was like, David Cromwolds was on today, Oh my god, we talked to today.

It was so amazing.

I know a lot of people don't know him by name, and then as soon as you show the face, everyone said, Santa Claus, this is a I haven't seen.

I mean, everyone remembers him from Santa Claus, it was I didn't really yeah, huh.

I mean for me, it's like I can't even pick a thing.

I'm like, he's in so many things, you know, like yeah, in this weird show about the old woman.

I mean yeah, he's like a part of yeah, my life for sure.

But you know, not everyone's as psycho as us.

Like some people are just more known by a face than a name.

Yeah, but I don't think you'd mind.

Yeah, And I don't think he should change his name.

I think he should keep it.

It looks good.

I think it's good.

Yeah, No, do not become crumb.

I mean I just really enjoyed it and it made a I'm always happy to do the pod, but sometimes you just we wanted to do this episode and talk to him for so.

Long that it was it just felt really good.

Yeah, And he's like just like a funny It's it's nice to meet somebody who's been acting since they were like fourteen, but is like still very down to earth and like self deprecating and like funny.

He's like not like on some shit like he's more important than other people and like not that we talk to a lot of people like that, but he's just like, uh no, I don't.

Think they would do the podcast.

Yeah, I just feel like we can hang out with him at a party and he would be fun, you know, like I could have talked to him for like truly another hour.

I know we say that all the time, but I really mean it with him.

But this episode, we I mean, it's so great.

We start out with a CSU tech who cannot fucking who has who has no kouth, and we end up with a grandmother callously taking back her ententaglia necklace.

I mean this episode, and in the middle we just have Benson Benson having a mushroom attack and Stabler feigning a mushroom attack.

I don't know what our post mortem takeaways are, keep your don't breathe in deeply when you're around a pot in some mushroom man's thing.

Well, and that men are rapist even if it's consensual, because at the end of the day, that dude up top was like she wanted it, and it's like she looks like an alien and you could tell she's under the influence, Like, yeah, you fucked her in a fountain and you still left her to drown and die in there, Like right, the fact that that's not criminal at all and it's totally fine and he gets to leave, but truly disgusting, Like the bar for legality is so hot, like you could, Yeah, she clearly is under the influence.

And then it took us down like a road of that intelligence he left, ye, this pond while negligence.

Then we go to a road of sugary sodas.

We go down that road, the road of sugary of like two sugary sodas, and then we're back.

So now we're talking about corporate greed and then it's like but really, in the end, it's just like a poor girl who lost her mom and is looking for family in a mean old lady.

And I guess takeaway should be quit looking for find your family outside of your family sometimes, because that woman was a mean old bitch and she was never gonna You were never gonna be what she like.

You know, you're never gonna be Lindsay.

Lindsay was a.

Ex speedhead too, Yeah yeah, so yeah, I don't know.

She just seemed like she was never willing to give Emma a chance on that was flirting.

I like that, iced t Na Michael, both as their characters wanted a fuck Paula Patten so bad.

And there was full flirting like there was.

Yeah, it was.

It was a good one.

It's a good episode and I know we've done it on the road, so hopefully if you've seen us do it on the road, you enjoyed our recap with the David Crumholtz chaser.

Well, I'm on the IMDb for we and the main photo from it is the Kouchi Ku medical examiner.

Yeah, that woman hits her face kind of like they never have her back.

I think they're like, this is too stucky adjacent, like we can't.

Oh yeah it was, but also obviously reminds me of the New Dexter is like so good.

I'm like, I don't know if I'm i don't know if I'm just such a big fan that I'm like delusional.

Maybe it's not good, but I love it.

I'm LoVa, Wait, what do you mean what do you mean by the New Dexter?

Is this the the Is this a new season of the prequel show?

Where the prequel?

So that's what's crazy.

So Dexter original eight seasons, then it came back with New Blood.

It was, which I liked, Yeah, which I really liked then.

It was this prequel that I didn't want.

I've tried watching, I'll watch it on you, but I didn't like it.

This is a continuation of New Blood and it's called Resurrection.

Oh.

No, one told me that was happening.

Oh, Kara, it's in New York City.

Oh, I'm excited.

And can I tell you the cast?

Yes, Uma Thurman's in it, cam from Modern Family is in it, Kristin Ritters in it, Neil Patrick Harris is in it, and Tyrian Lanister, what the fun?

Peter Dinklic is in it?

Oh yeah, and Derek for Musa Guests of Our Pot and Dominic.

Yeah, oh Dominic.

I knew it was wrong.

I kept telling people.

I'm like Derek from I knew something was up.

Yeah, Dominic for Musa.

But it's Dexter, It's Harrison Bautista's in it, and it's York City.

Is Dexter the ghost?

Now?

No, it's it was in a coma.

They just kept the coma.

It's fine.

I don't care, Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

No, I'm fine with it.

He woke up from a coma.

He's not really dead.

It's whatever.

It's far fetched.

I don't get so I don't care.

It's fine if Michael C.

Hall was down to do it again, like, that's fine.

And who's our former guests that I met on a flight?

Who's married to Game of Thrown, Mark Machaka, he's also in it?

Okay, our buddy Mark, friend of the pod, two friends of the Pod.

Yeah, it's really awesome.

I think they're on only four episodes so far, four or five episodes?

Wait?

Shit, did you have to get the showtime add on to Waking.

Well, it's not showtim anymore.

It's Paramount plus.

But I have the Paramount Plus.

I'm sorry.

I know we haven't even talked about Colbert south Park.

Thank god.

Well if people are like my friends be like, how do you watch the South Park?

I go, well, I have Paramount plus so unfortunately, well I do want to cancel it.

Fuck yeah, Colbert whatever, but like I'm watching Dexter in south Park.

Sorry, guys, I had already canceled mine because I was done with Yellow Jackets, which we have to review another time.

I mean, I don't know if we've talked about it, right, but I thought it was better than this, you know what.

I was reading.

What Vulture said is like they had to make like they had everything planned and then Juliet Lewis wanted to leave, So it's like we really, like I want they had to re purpose everything.

They get it back on track, and I do feel like they got it back on track.

I do, Am I wrong?

You don't feel that way?

I don't know, I.

I am.

I like where things were going in the wilderness, but I still think what's happening in real life is fucking off the like wild and like not justified all the time.

But we we should talk about this.

Maybe this is a tease.

Maybe this is another tease for the next intro.

Listen.

We can't.

We just can't.

This can't be a six hour episode.

But uh, I'm going to totally I don't know what I'm gonna do about getting Paramount plus back now so that I can watch this dexter.

I'll figure it out.

I'll figure it out.

Well, you don't have to do fully, you could just add an extension on Amazon for the month, like wait till that's.

What I did.

Yeah, that's what I did with my Paramount Because South Park's only going to be I think ten episodes too.

So it's like, that's ten and then Dexter will probably be ten.

Yeah, Uma, Thurman, that's that's a list that's pretty killer.

Yeah yeah, not to be make a pun.

Yeah, I didn't even mean to do that, but okay, let's move on to our what would Sister Peg Do?

And you guys know that What would Mister Peg Do is our weekly segment where we direct you towards like usually a resource like a book or an article or or an organization that will give you more information about what we talked about in today's episode.

But I think you're all doing pretty okay with staying away from Mushroom Labs.

So we are going to use this opportunity to direct you towards blah blah blah blah teacher wish lists.

Every year we at that's messed up.

We will share the wish lists of the listeners of our show who are teachers, of which there are many.

There is a highlight on our Instagram page called teachers that shows you exactly what you have to do in order to make the post and share it and so that I am able to share it to our listeners.

But I am also this year going to keep track of all of them in a Google sheet, which is will be linked to in our show notes, and so you can if you're not an Instagram user or it's easier for you to just go to this Google sheet that'll be linked in our show notes and I'll make a story linking to that Google sheet as well.

So if you have the means and you want to, just like maybe every week from now until school starts, you just throw a pack of post its at one of the teachers.

You know what I mean, Like, if everybody just gives like one little thing, it fucking sucks that we live in a country where our governments is trying to end the Department of Education rying but teacher, you can get money for your concentration camps, but these teachers need money for their school classrooms.

So we always love to support teachers.

So that is this week's WWSPD.

So that will be in our show notes and posted, and you can feel free to tag us in your wishless and we will share them and hopefully the That's Messed Up Hive will rise up and support some of the teachers in our midst Thank you.

I think this is the first time I've ever interrupted you during what would sister peg.

But always new times.

We can always find new times to interrupt.

I saw a post online that was like, oh, how are you funny?

Have you seen these?

Like oh, how are you so funny?

And yeah, and it was like, well, my desk was put outside the classroom when I was young, and that did happen to me in fifth grade.

I had to post it on my desk and every time I interrupted the teacher, I had to do a tally mark, and when I got to ten, I was kicked out and I'd.

Have to spend the rest of the day in the hall.

Oh my god.

That a true problem.

It truly is a problem.

I don't think they do that kind of shaming anymore.

I hope not.

I hope not.

Teachers let us know.

Well, now i'd be medicated.

I think.

If it was today, I think I'd be medicated.

I really because I didn't I didn't even have the patience too scantron tests.

I would I would just I would just fill out the answers and be like I want to go outside, like I didn't care.

I didn't have I didn't have the focus or anything like.

I think I'd be medicated if it was now or I didn't have immigrant parents.

I had been medicated.

But anyways, next week we will be doing shock Collar.

Sounds like a fun hip hop song.

Not, it's not.

It's a disase from season twenty six, episode twenty.

It's current, so you can only watch it on peacock or like your DVR, so do not go to even the peacock I have.

It was making me upgrade to another another tier to watch it.

So what I did did?

I watch it at NBC dot com with commercials.

So if you want to watch it for free, it's at NBC dot com with commercials.

Oh wow, that's yeah, cool to hear.

All right, So yeah, that's next week.

We thank you all for listening.

We're so happy to be out of the time machine a while journey for sure.

Yeah, and we'll see you at our live show.

Yep, see you guys in Brooklyn and next week, Bye bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Listen to That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork.

Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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