Of the law and Order franchises.

SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on These are our stories, done done.

Yay, that's messed up.

An SVU podcast coming to you at a normal pace.

My name is Lisa Traeger.

And I'm Kara Klank And on this podcast we talk SVU true crime and talk to guests.

And I'm hot off of a trip to New York where I saw Lisa and she did my show.

And thank you to everybody that listens to the pod that came out.

It was a great turnout.

Lisa and all the comics were amazing.

I was very wild.

Was that morning.

Some was that soul cycle and they're like, I'm coming to the show tonight.

I'm like, and I'll see you there.

We're really living I don't know, pet lives and in a word in front of it, I don't know what to say.

Parallel, parallel, But yeah, it was a fun.

It was a whirlwind.

It was.

It was a whirlwind.

I was in New York and then in Indiana and then back in New York and then gone and uh, but the entire time I was there, all anyone was talking about was the Riod Comedy Festival.

It was on the tip of everyone's time, the tip of everyone's tongue.

In my feeds all over the place, the.

New Roxy Heart, the Riod Comedy Festival.

It was giving me like parody artwork of it, like in my feed of accounts I don't follow.

I was like, Okay, we get it.

You know that I'm interested in this topic.

But if anybody doesn't know what we're talking about.

There's a comedy festival in Saudi Arabia, a famously, famously oppressive regime that is sponsored by the government, that all these comics are doing, and honestly barely any of them surprise me except for a couple, and I'm sad about that.

Thing is if you're a foolier, like whatever, but the people that do try to say things like you have no leg to stand on.

You've lost all credibility, all integrity, Like the end of the day, you can't like you can't really speak about anything anymore.

Like this is something that's gonna I think follow them in whole.

You know, it's like they can't say anything anymore.

Yeah, I mean there's queer people going, I'm like, it's illegal there, you know, to talk.

To talk shit about billionaires going fuck you wealth and then going to like an active country where there's I mean, I don't know, Yeah, it's yeah.

This comedian Alex Falcone like does these videos.

He's big on social and he's like he did some video that was like if they're gonna pay you for someone's gonna pay you for a job that you normally do, like twenty times what you normally get paid, that's weird.

Like that's that's dangerous.

Like if you found twenty bucks, He's like, if you found twenty bucks on the ground, that's cool.

If you found twenty thousand dollars in a bag run away, you didn't see shit, like you know, that's so you know, like it's just kind of like do you I don't know the fact.

I guess all these people really think their talent is worth that much money.

But well, I also I did convince someone not to go.

But I know, and that's did I already talk about it on here or no, you told me.

You told me, and I'm very proud of you for doing that.

Yeah, but they're they're annoyed with it right, So I don't know, it's my thing.

That's funny is the implication when I was went with people, it's like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, and it's like no, I wouldn't, like and a bunch of people did say no, So it's not even hypothetical about me.

It's like a no, people did say no.

So stop saying everyone would do it.

You would do it, and that's fine, but it does inform and people are allowed to inform opinions about you.

And if you are doing it.

For the money, or you're broke, or you know, you don't give a fuck, that's fine too, But if you're trying to give a fuck, it's kind of you know, it looks's no one punk.

Rock anymore, Like why do I sound like the elderly?

But I know it's really like I mean, I was talking to my husband about today and he was just like, everybody's whole thing today is just get that money, get the bag, like and no one cares.

And I was like, yeah, it's just like disappointing for like two or three of the people.

Most of people, I'm like, I don't do care.

A lot of people said no and were offered.

Yeah, I knew about this festival before it was announce at all, because I had a friend reach out to me, going, can you fucking believe this?

And they were pissed and they said no, and they these people were doubling their offer for.

Him and had one thing to be like, well, the people of Saudi Arabia need comedy.

It's like, no, this is put on by the government, like this is well, that's and there's a list of shit you can't say because if you performed for our government, I don't want to talk to you, you know what I mean.

So yeah, because that's what people are saying, like, oh, it's so good in America, and it's like it's kind of different performing for people and the government, and no one's going to perform at a JD vance like event is home, you know what I mean?

Then what a Glorious Bastards is about?

Like a show for Hitler, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, we could all do it, but you either fight or not.

And it's fine to bet, it's fine to survive whatever you have to do to survive, but fuck you and we get to judge you for it, and it's a stain on your legacy.

And it's not saying that I'm more or less ethical or immoral.

And I do immral things all the time, and I've I've compromised my shit for stuff.

So it's like, I don't think I'm better than anybody that's doing it, but this is a stain on them.

Yeah, yeah, it is what it is.

Well, I did a double feature.

I don't know why, but I guess I watched seven in Silence of the Lambs while I was, Oh, I was cleaning, That's what I was doing, so I had it on in the background.

I can't believe you watched like a double feature of like two of my favorite most terrifying movies.

They are there was.

Points where like in seven, the patchy fucked up skin and they're like flaking the skin.

I was like, I've really why didn't I put on Housewives?

But you had seen had you seen both of these movies or this was the first time.

No, I've seen each one.

I've probably seen Seven a few more than Silence Lambs, but yeah, I've seen them both.

Actually, and then because I was avoiding cleaning, I did make a list of my top one hundred movies.

Okay, Yeah, is it going to be available for viewing anywhere.

Do you think anyone would care?

I mean I would, but I already I think it on your gram.

I did think of one yesterday, so I have to take one off.

I've already had to do that twice.

But that's tough.

Yeah, that's well because I just kind of did it in a in a haze, like i'd i'd want to do a re.

I think both of those would probably be on my list.

I mean Silence of the Lambs for sure.

Yeah, I don't know about Well, that's what inspired me to write the list.

I was watching Silence of the Lambs well first, I was watching both both.

I was watching both being like, damn, these are good.

I'm like, this is good.

This is so fucking good, and I was like, I should make a list because it would definitely be on it.

Yeah, dude, that's like, sorry, it's reminding me.

I know, we keep talking about AI and getting mad, but it's reminding me of this like meme that's been going around that I'm almost like, I'm ninety nine percent sure is AI.

Where it's the box spoiler alert for seven everybody, if you haven't seen seven that came out when I was fourteen years old.

Uh, Like, you know, they open the box and you don't ever see what's in the box.

But in this meme, Gwyneth Paltrow is like in the box and she's smiling and she's alive, like she's part of the picture and like and Morgan Freeman's standing there and Kevin Spacey and Brad Pitt and it's been going around everywhere and everyone's like, well, I hate AI, but I love that this exists.

So I don't know, maybe that's one of our pluses.

I don't know, we've been being fed.

I'm sure in your algorithm it's like the AI actress.

You know, the agencies are fo oh.

My god, the AI actress like the champ thing, like we have to fight, we have to fight it.

Why are we being casual?

Someone was like, well, I have to make a list of ten under the water see animal facts.

I go, and you need a AI?

I go, Are you fucking kidding me?

So?

I wouldn't waste time.

I go, that would take ten seconds.

I go.

You would just type in an animal go to fun facts and make I'm like, that's what's like, that's what.

Life is about.

And I go I can give you fucking facts right now.

And she was like what, I'm like, how many hearts does an octopus have?

You know what I mean?

Like, you know nothing?

Is the answer?

Three?

Yes, it is.

Okay because we're adults and we should know stuff and know how to look for stuff.

I've been drunk a lot this week, so I have been rampaging.

It is coming out right now.

I have been going off.

I've been going off.

Oh my god, I've been like, I'm on the version of almost slapping people upside the head.

You are a creative, you make money on your brain, thoughts and speech, and you're gonna let this take.

What the fuck are you even thinking it's psychotic?

It's truly psychotic?

Oh my god, yeah I can't.

I mean we we you guys all know how we feel.

And then some of you keep writing us being like and then there's an AI ad on your podcast.

I'm like, we're trying to stop those.

We don't know how those get there.

I don't even know what the ads are for.

We have made our point clear.

Yeah, we're against that.

I think gambling, maybe some vitamins.

We're against some stuff we do.

We are our friend Bridger host of I said no gifts right here on the exactly right network.

He I just did his Patreon the other day and he was telling me.

He's like, I think that AI is like a scam.

I think it's gonna burst.

It's gonna be like the dot com.

It's gonna be like I mean chatch Epet's obviously, but just the amount of money and surrounded like feels like it's bringing the like the richest man in the world right now is like someone you've never heard of, who like is I think the CEO of like nvideo like that makes AI some sort of AI.

I don't know what they make, but like some chip to make AI.

I have no fucking idea, but it's bringing a ton of money in and I feel like that's all gonna pop and then we'll still have chatchypt like we'll still have that stuff.

But but that's just what life was about.

The full automation of all of the jobs and AI actresses, I'm hoping is like a bubble that's gonna burst.

If we were doing bet like better things with all this gained time we have with this convenience, then it could be fine.

But we're only on our phones.

Yeah, we're scrolling, so just go go research, go buy a stamp.

I don't know.

Yeah, go buy gloves at the store, Like live a life.

You are doing nothing.

We are doing nothing.

I am laying in my bed and I'm scrolling like we're not doing anything, and that I don't have toilet paper right now.

But I have to go to the store.

I have to go to the store, but I have wet wipes.

I don't want anyone to think I'm like a dirty bitch.

No, no, I also do I have to I have to hire someone.

Someone wants to put in.

I have a fucking I have a bid day.

I think we did an ad for a be day.

Someone sent me a day.

Oh yeah, to shit, we did, so she sent and I have it and I want it.

I have it and I had it installed by a person that I hired.

Like so it's I'm not selling you to do it yourself.

And I really like it.

But I don't think we ever did an ad for them.

They sent you to us.

I don't think we ever did an ad like yeah, I mean the persons.

But here's the ad right now.

It's talking about it in our opening.

Can we also really quickly say thank you to So someone sent something to Lisa and I brought it to her in New York and she just got it this past Sunday.

I know you sent it a couple of weeks ago and it was meant to be a birthday gift, but she just got it at the end of September, about a month after her birthday.

Yeah, it was amazing.

The luck.

The luck la boo boo.

And I mean, when my you know, Jared Goldstein found out, he goes, you got luck, I go, I got luck and it she's gorgeous.

It's like cotton, candy colors, purple toenails, like I love her.

Yeah, and that's from a listener named Kevin.

That was very sweet of you to send that.

To I've actually been a lot of our girls, you know what, And guys, listen, the fact that we don't have like a name for our listeners yet after years, I know the fact that we're like, wait, we want new merch what do we say?

I'm like, how do we not have more taglines and nicknames?

Because I go, are not franchised and are not gender heteronormative.

Well, also we say funny, weird shit all the time, But like in one episode, we just don't repeat over and over again the same.

Stuff I think we do.

They must they're gonna start, they'll tell us right now.

But like, yeah, if you have an idea, we're really trying to drum up new name.

We're trying to drum up new ideas for like a T shirt or merch or something for the for the holidays and beyond.

So if you have an idea, and I don't wear shirts, so if you want something else, tell us.

Have we ever made scrunchies?

Like what do people actually use?

And we may these doves tell us to make We should make a knife.

We should make a knife, a knife.

We should do something for fighting back.

Oh those things that you carry in your key, in your in your wrist when you're when you're walking.

Okay, what do you guys want the weapon?

To say?

We're gonna create a weapon.

We're gonna make a weapon.

But don't say Dick Wolf baby, because we are not allowed to do that.

We've talked about it before, but people still suggest it every other day.

We cannot do anything with Dick Wolf's things.

I saw a.

Line that like all these got like all these like weapons are legal, but anything that women can use to protect themselves is illegal.

Oh yeah, but like mace is not.

Yeah, I got you.

That might be my new thing.

I'm gonna fucking put a bill out JK.

Our country is burning.

But oh and also I want to really quickly shout out the couple that invited us to their wedding.

I believe it's in Phoenix.

I'm so sorry I left the invitation in my house.

I believe the wedding is this weekend coming up.

So we're wishing you and your husband, who I believe you set your future husband.

You said that you got him turned onto the podcast, and we appreciate you guys so much, and we're wishing you a amazing wedding.

Congratulations.

Hell yeah, that's beautiful.

Okay.

So I'm watching Silence of the Lambs and there's a cop.

So the scene is they're like at the elevator, you know, like he's eaten these guys.

We don't know where he is, and so there they are, all these cops are there looking at the elevator and there's a woman that has two lines.

Her name is Officer Jacobs, and I go, I know that bitch, and she she's in Shaken, she shook the baby and Shaken, and she's the wife of Bosh in the Chopped Head one Resilience.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly the actress you're talking about.

Yeah.

So her name is Cynthia Eninger.

And it's these moments where I go, damn, maybe I don't know two lot, but I was like, I know her, I fucking know her.

And it's everywhere.

It's literally that meme of Miranda Cosgrove.

I curly like looking at the computer and everybody's like me telling you which characters are from King of Queens are on whatever, Like you.

Know, it says she was in Seinfeld the parking garage, but it's not popping out to me.

It says Michelle.

So I'll definitely like have to rewatch.

That's to rewatch.

Yeah, I asked because I don't so that's pretty humiliating, but you know, I want to be transparent here.

Oh my god, I watched the premiere episode.

Oh my god, I can't believe we didn't say spoiler.

If like you are, if you did not watch the first episode of season twenty seven, fast forward to a while, because we're about this for a minute.

Some minutes.

Don't care.

Some of you don't even still watch the show.

But the show's still on and they have a female show run on it.

I'm excited for this season.

There was no need.

I'm fucking pissed.

So the episode starts and Carrot told me when I saw her, like, did you not watch it?

I'm not gonna say aything, she goes, but you're not gonna like it, and she was right.

It opens up We're at Cragan's funeral.

We're at Capita bar funeral.

We're at a cop bar and there's a sign of Kragan.

Dan Florick is not dead, like we could have We did not need to do this, like the I mean famously one of our first big gets on the podcast, obsessed with him.

He was so sweet.

He could have come back for like little cameos like I don't understand why kill him?

And then you think that's bad enough, but you know there's a little reunion, you see people whatever.

Then Finn gets fully beaten.

The shit out of his gut, like he gets got Like there's a couple and they're pretending to fight, but he thinks it's a real fight.

And then the girl like knocks him out, They beat the shit out of him.

He's busted, he's in the hospital.

Yeah.

So, like if you've ever come to some of our earlier live shows, I used to do a super cut of all the time Stabler got his ass absolutely kicked.

Like Stabler has been beaten up, he's had he's been like thrown through windows.

To live a more relaxing lifestyle, we have seen this kind We've never seen that with Finn, Like we've never been like, oh fuck, no, Finn, Like he was on the ground just getting the shit kicked out of him.

And I didn't like that sandwiched right after Craigan dying for no goddamn reason.

It was Yeah, but then the episode I thought was good.

Yeah, that's my problem is that I liked where the tone went after it.

To me, it felt like an older episode, Like, of course the show is like more high def and like shinier than it used to be back in like the early seasons.

But I liked that it was just like a random person reporting their crime against them and then we've got to go out there and do police work and ask around and see who saw what.

And then of course it did involve like a current issue like it involves ice and stuff like that.

But it didn't like, it wasn't like the way that the last few seasons have been where it's like cartels and gangs and the most powerful lifeguard in New York and the most powerful soccer player in New York and like all these people.

You're like, this isn't like real.

This was like a real person that and like Olivia has like her old school connection with the victim.

It's like the old showrunner was like, oh, people like succession, Let's get rich people into SVU like that.

Yeah, like total cash.

And this was like a girl that was like the victim in this episode, like is in town for a job interview, and like Live's talking to her all about like how she can get through this and like her job and stuff.

It was cool.

I liked the vibe of it, and so I hope that's like a hallmark of this new director.

I just feel like, I guess it's like I understand they need to make us splash in these episodes.

But let me also say something that happened was after the beginning scene where they all see each other at the funeral.

I mean, it's it's the cop like Irish wake or whatever.

After the funeral and Liv walks out to her car, Stablers leaning up against her car.

They have a little exchange.

There's a million other ways you can get those two together.

Okay, they're both working in here.

We don't have to kill a beloved character to get those two together.

But then when she gets in her car, he says to her, love you, and the Internet is going like I happened to be on Reddit honestly checking out comments about Theovonne bombing and the Riod Comedy Festival.

But I I'm on the I have a.

Theo story too, Okay, I mean not with me, but people were not nice to him, and I was like, fuck, yeah, New York has a fuck.

With you, get the fuck out of here.

I was just I was just happy for my people because I usually have to be like confrontational, but people didn't.

Yeah, I'm proud of everyone.

It's like, you're at the fucking Beacon, what a dream and you're not memorizing your jokes Like I'm sorry whatever.

So anyway, so I go on Reddit because I'm reading all this other stuff, and the first it knows I like su So I'm getting this thread about the love you and people are like, they don't say that to each other.

That means something, and other people were like being normal, and we're.

Like, well, did you see the Maloney interview.

He goes he improvised that, yes, I saw that, You're welcome.

Yeah, fuck off.

But they kept it in because it's like two old friends going love you.

He wasn't going I'm in love with you, and people are saying that on the OC he admits that he's in love with her, I have not seen that.

If you have an episode where Christopher Maloney on the OC admits to being in love with Olivia Benson, please to being deeply in love with her, not loving her.

There's other ways of being in love with the romantic love is different than all love, and and everybody was just acting like this was But I think you could have teased the episode so much instead of because I saw articles that were like a beloved character dies on SVU and I was like, Okay, you could have teased it with like you finally hear the two words the words you want to hear between Benson and Stable or I mean, like, there's other ways you could tease the first episode that's not killing off the character.

Of an actor who's still living and has appeared on the show recently in cameos.

I don't, I don't.

I don't know why we did that to Dan Florak.

No, And maybe maybe someone will will get someone on the line.

Yeah, someone on the line.

Hopefully someone will pick this up.

Now.

Wait, I'm going to try to go to the Dune Dun Diner experience this weekend.

It's it looks cute.

It's the Law and Order pop up.

It's at Rockefeller one Rockefeller Plaza.

But it's also Taylor's Swift Weekend.

The album is coming out, so I am pretty swamped.

So I'm thinking I'm gonna go Sunday, DM me let me know what you guys are thinking when you're going.

But it's Friday, Saturday, Sunday one pm to seven pm Friday and then nine am to seven pm Saturday and Sunday.

So maybe I'll go to Taylor Swift Spin and then go But I feel like the lines it's gonna be pandemonium.

I feel like I have to go Sunday and go an hour before.

Well, this is this weekend, right and this episode's not coming out in to so maybe all of this is moot.

But yeah, I mean, never mind, I will tell you about it.

I will be there.

Maybe I'll see you guys and lol forever.

But I'm gonna go.

I'm gonna go.

I hope I see you guys there.

Yeah, I hope you're to go.

No, I'm definitely going.

It's just if I'm gonna make Saturday.

It's just you can listen to the album while you wait in line, right or something?

Or no.

Well, I'm going to Taylor Swift Soul cycles like they're making things around it.

Yeah, there's bead making.

Yeah, there's rituals.

I forgot.

I forgot I forgot about the religious aspect of it.

But oh but this is too this.

I want to go to the SVU Diner.

But my one friend that I feel would come with me, she's going to be in London.

I don't know who who.

I don't know, but people like I gotta I gotta figure it out.

Whoever to go, No, someone will, I'll figure it out.

But I'd rather go with someone that is going to be as excited as into it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think because I doubt it'll be good.

What's the experience do you actually get to eat there or do you just go in partnership with Milk Bar that's disgusting and dinner service in New York Multi day Eve indulgent diner favorite dishes, get their hands on limited editions, squad merchandise, and surround themselves with interactive moments and imagery that call back to Law and Order heroes, guest stars, and decades worth of cases, leads and clues.

Oh my god, I can't fucking wait.

Damn, I can't believe this is the weekend after I'm in New York.

That's the annoying I know, but.

I can't go FORRID.

So yeah, Saturday, Saturday is an I can't fucking wait.

I have other stuff, but we will talk about it and the post mortem.

But it is crime related and I have things.

Oh okay, all right, let's start started.

Let's get started on today's episode.

But before we start, that's messed up Live dot com.

You can find all Lisa's tour d eights.

She's gonna be on the road, She's in Europe, she's in the US, She's all over the goddamn place.

Scroll down to Lisa's website and that will take you to all the legit links.

And yeah, also, while you're there, check out our merch shop and buy the dregs of what's left because we're gonna get new merch.

And then send us a merch idea if you have one.

We are stumped.

Tell your friends in other countries Amsterdam, Zebbelin, Lunds, in Paris.

I'm sure you have a friend.

You have to have a friend in Paris.

If you don't have a friend in Paris, come on, tell your friend in Paris.

All right, I don't know.

I don't have a friend in Paris.

All right, let's get started.

Hey, guys, we're doing the episode Rotten.

Season four, episode teen came out in January, so a winter Wonderland kind of episode, and it starts off with an anxious man asking Finn like, what's up?

What's raiment?

How do I postpond?

What if I can't do that?

And basically Finn kind of tells him what's what life's going to be like He's going to go to the tombs for one night, but if he cannot afford bail, he will go to Rikers until trial really fucked up?

Mm hmm, but I don't ever mind.

Some people shouldn't leave jail life is so nuanced.

But anyways, so Finn cuts him from It just fucked up that people are sitting in jail for a long time because they can't afford bail, but like awful people can leave because they can afford it.

It's like that shouldn't really be that way.

Yeah, Finn cuts Finn grabs him from like the precinct cell, cuffs him and starts walking him out.

And the guy's like, listen, if I talk to missus Parks, she's gonna get it, and he goes, no, she's actually a pissed But he love Sarah and she is pregnant.

He wants to marry her.

But it's like, hey, babe, she was fifteen and you're twenty one.

So you're going to jail.

Well you got you got to serve your time and hopefully he'll be out in eighteen months.

But you're a creep.

And so now we have kind a warden, a jail time warden, and his name is Chad L.

Coleman, and he was a friend of the pod.

He was on the episode's Spousal Privilege, one of my favorite interviews because there was a woman in the background who didn't know she was on camera hof and around and he had to be like bitch put on pants.

So that's like a fun memory for all of us.

But you know, I remember that he was in this episode two thrilled to see him again.

And he's explaining to a bunch of men, don't make trouble.

Don't talk to me about how you're not guilty.

I don't care about police brutality or any of your rights.

Talk to legal aid.

You're gonna get fingerprinted, photographed.

Cavity searched and assigned a cell.

Chow is seven Nude and six Lights out, nine thirty.

Have a nice day.

This man's rattled, rattled as fuck, but he's cooperating, you know.

Being quiet.

He's put in a cell and it's very orange is the new black.

You know, we're meeting everyone in the cell.

We have a long haired man and a silk top.

I didn't know you could kind of mix and match in their outfit ways, but you know he's there and he's serving cunt.

And then there's a gray like gray hoodie guy laying on the bottom bunk, and then a bald, angry man walks in with our kind of like shaky man, and you know, shaky man's trying to interact with bald man like it's the real world, and the bald man flicks his head and tells him to shut the fuck up, and he wants the gray sweatshirt to get off his fucking blood, but there's like other available bunks, so you know, it's jail stuff.

And so then we actually so so bald guy throws off gray sweatshirt.

There's blood all over the bed, and the new guy starts screaming, guard help, and everyone's laughing at him.

So he's crying and scrunches down to the floor.

It's quite sad and truly you hear just people making fun of him throughout the cells.

But yeah, maybe there should be a statutory rape jail, Yeah, just for I didn't know.

So now Benson's on the scene.

Obviously we're in block H, so you know, she gets filled in that the Emmy is with the body and one of her coworkers is talking to the cellmates, so she gets she gets buzzed in and obviously as she's walking everyone's watching her, hooting hollering, rattling their cages.

You know, Hot Mama coming.

Through very silence of the layup.

Melinda is there on the scene.

She's in a low pony.

Stabler isn't there.

He's at a ViCAP seminar.

He's making nice with the Feds.

So basically we find out this bloody guy he was sodomized with a foreign object.

He bled out internally and it probably busts his bust his colon, so not good.

He's been dead about four to five hours tops.

And now we cut to Finn.

He's talking to long hair sell mate and he's sassy and he hates Dominicans, but he did try to talk to this guy, but you know, he's like, they won't say hi, they're Dominican and silky top.

He's there for knifing his lever, but he claims that he got hit first, and then he winks and kisses the sky to Finn.

Now it's a cell walk and talk with Benson and Finn, and he's saying the long hair guy did not interact with the dead guy because he also hated gay people.

But also not many people have access, so we're like, is it a Mexican versus Dominican thing?

So they go to chat with our warden friend to get more information, and they're like, you know, where any did any Mexicans have access to this dead Dominican man?

And he goes, yes, Actually, Hector Ramirez went to the infirmary and was there while Torres was there and their visits overlapped, so Hector is there for murder.

So you know, it could be a nice first suspect.

To me, he's confident.

I would say, maybe cocky, and he sees the cops walk toward him and say, you know what, he is funny.

He goes, what's up, Bacon?

So that joke really never gets old, and they're always really creative with it.

I think.

He's not helping them.

He just wants to play games, you know.

Deny, deny, deny.

They taught him by being like, we heard you love to bend your enemies over.

What did you use a mop or a broom?

He goes, no, I went there to get close to a nurse, so that's why I was there.

I was there for a while and I wanted some action.

And Benson goes, the nurse wouldn't even fucking look at you, and he goes, well, if she was by herself, I would have raped her, so she wouldn't have a choice, and then he bites his lip.

We go to the nurse.

She's in pink scrubs and I like that she's keeping her jail job fun, you know.

And she says I knew he was lying and his tooth was fine, and he kept harassing me.

But okay, but how's this guy dead?

And she's like, listen, he was vomiting.

He had a fever, so maybe a flu.

I gave him meds and I told him he would feel better.

But Nathan Duarte and intake guard.

That's who took him back.

And then Torres called Nathan mean homophobic names, so maybe Nathan is the one who did it.

He'd recently been outed, so now everyone's taunting him for being gay.

So we find out that Torres was taken to the shower and there were screams coming from down the hallway and he didn't want Nathan to touch him.

So we have to go talk to Nathan and he's like, listen, everyone hates gay people.

I work with really dumb people, like prison's not nurturing.

I'm chill.

I don't really take any of this personal.

I've heard worse, but you know, Torres is rude and I don't give a shit.

And they questioned the shower situation, and he goes, yeah, he was covered in puke, he had to shower.

But he doesn't like what they're implying.

He goes, because I'm gay, I raped him, and Bensa goes, no, you were just like the last person with him.

But he's pissed.

He gets stern and says, I didn't touch him, and I took him to his cell after he showered.

I left work at midnight and I went home.

Benson wants someone to vouch for him, and he does give a name.

It's Chris Hartford, a legal aid attorney.

Cool.

Wonder how they met.

Knock knock, it's a woman.

There's a baby crying.

You know, this guy's cheating on his wife with this man.

So they do the classic like, oh, we got to talk to you out here, you know, client privilege, client privilege.

So he hands the baby to his wife and goes, get the fuck out of here.

I got to talk to these guys.

So he's guilty.

He knows it.

He's like, listen, I was with my guy from one am to six am.

I meet up with him when my wife's out of town.

Who is with the baby.

Who's with the baby from one to six in the morning.

Maybe she was.

Out of town with the baby.

No month, No, oh, she took the baby on her trip.

That's fucked up.

So she's trying to get a little vaca and has to take the baby.

Visit mom.

I don't know people, I mean, I guess it's Alisa her problems.

Like husband's cheating on her.

Yeah, they could have fucked in the house, honestly while the baby slipped there.

Like okay, So now we're at Melinda's house aka the Morgue.

Cause of death, wooden splinters in the rectum they were in.

There was such force that there was a hole in the colon.

He bled out for hours.

It did not happen in the tombs.

He was sick at intake, so it happened before he came in, So, you know, basically came in at midnight, dead by four.

So what's going on?

Benson goes, I mean a cop at the precinct must have done it.

So now we're at the Center precinct.

We're brainstorming.

Craigan's like, fuck, you think it's a cop, and it's like, well, he was arrested at eight pm and he was sick when he got there, so it has to be their resting officers, so we go meet them.

We got a Les Cooper, Randall Grant, and John Royce is the commanding officer, and Craigan's like, let me give him a heads up first, so they go to the twenty ninth precinct.

The bald head guy is the guy in charge, John Royce, and he's like, yeah, all good, all good.

You know, arrested eight transpot at eleven thirty, but that's three and a half hours.

Is that normal?

And he goes listen, sometimes it gets crazy here.

Maybe he resisted arrest.

I think he assaulted one of my guys.

So they're like, who did he assault?

So we get a name.

It's Luke Edmonds.

He's out the rest of the week for the injuries that this man caused him.

Oh my god.

So now we are like, okay, so we have Edmunds injured by this dude and he's off work.

So now let's talk to the arresting officers.

The two guys.

So there's straight up cops.

He says, Grant is a rookie and Cooper gets the job done, which in cop talk means a little rough around the edges.

So Cooper and Grant are on the streets working and they it's drizzling, and it's pretty boy.

I mean, McGrath looks fucking hot.

I mean, and I get that he's like a good looking man at his own right and everything like that, but fuck, does he look good in this season an episode?

Yeah, McGrath is Cooper.

Yeah, So Terry Serpico is McGrath.

Also in a ton of other episodes.

He's like in A season six, a season fifteen, he's really done it all but I and A season one, but I was like, I was hot for teacher, for beat up, I was hot for homicide.

But yeah, so and then the other guy no one cares about him.

So but also Terry Sipercos starts like truly going down on this coffee lid.

He is licking this coffee cup like you can't imagine.

And the rookie is like, they've arrested this dead guy like four times this month alone, like you know, he keeps getting off and Benson goes, well, that's frustrating, So did you take him out or what?

Like, are you mad enough for that?

He goes, we did everything up by the book.

They showed up at a street brawl and he was a part of it, and so they said that he swung at Edmunds, so they had to arrest him.

The call came in at seven, the booking at eight.

Everything quick, there's no hitting.

They go, we went to the club and there was a street barrel happening outside.

What do you want us to do?

So we gotta, you know, check the story.

So they go chat to the bartender and this is actually a really cool, beautiful bar where he says that, like, it doesn't matter if the Mexicans and Dominicans all hate each other.

Even gangsters need a safe place to take a date.

So this is like a date spot that they put down their knives and swords and focus on romance.

And I love that.

So Carlos Torres, he knows him.

He was here with his girl and he remembers because they were celebrating his girl was pregnant, and he says that Carlos did not go outside until the uniforms came inside and got him.

So that's a conflicting story.

And they said that it was before the street fight.

So now we're back at the office chatting with Cooper and Grant and they're like listen, you obviously had reason to hurt him, like the stories don't match.

You went and got him, like why like, why not just rough him up?

Like let's say you hate him?

Why full ratee murder?

And Benson is like, it's you know, maybe it just went too far and you know it took it went on a nasty turn.

How do you say, what's that saying took a nasty turn?

Yeah, that makes sense.

And now they have to cover for each other.

Oh my god.

I was called in for jury duty but.

In Chicago, but I'm on the road, so they're switching it and it'll be within another three months.

And I do wonder if if I'm going to be able to do it.

I really want to.

You're going to go to Chicago and new jury duty?

What if you get picked?

I mean, I have a home to stay and I'd like to be a part of the criminal justice system, but it would have.

To definitely work with my road schedule.

But there's no fucking way anyone would keep me on a jury Yeah, there's no way.

I believe in justice too much.

They don't like that.

I think even having this podcast, they'd say no, oh for sure, Yeah, yeah, they don't.

They don't want me.

I have opinions like, okay, but we're back.

Nasty turn.

Took a nasty turn, and now they have to cover for each other.

So Benson's like, listen, they didn't have time before the arrest or even during, but I think they called Edmunds in to like help out.

So it happened at the precinct, and the duty log does say that Edmunds was at the hospital at eight pm for a busted head.

So did he go back to teach him a lesson or did he go home?

So like, let's figure out what the vibe is at the two nine and like, let's get CSU in there.

The sector car.

I think it's their car, so you.

Know, they're like, let's get CSU down there, we'll search the car, we'll do interrogation room, the bathroom's like, let's get shit going.

And then Benson now is with a bruised face Edmunds and he goes, I need my rep here if you're trying to put this on me, and she goes, no, I just need your account and he's like, he goes, it's in the six to one detective and she's like really, and he goes, don't fucking play games with me.

I do this for a living, and she goes, exactly, that's why I don't understand why you're giving me a hard time, and he goes, my bad, I'm sorry.

I'm still in pain and I did not mean to snap.

We love an apologetic guy.

And so she asks what he thinks happened, and he answers that he got corn holes in the tombs.

I don't like that.

What is that?

I think it's rape in the butt.

Yeah, but I don't know why the game is called cornhole.

Honestly, I don't think corn holes should be talked about.

I think it should be banned.

We should legalize.

Yeah, you can't say we hate it.

Okay.

I love playing cornhole, though, I mean I'd be fine for the game to be a different name.

Yeah, why can't it be called bags, bags and boards?

I want to play bags and boards.

Yeah, wooden hole.

That sound like that better?

Oh my god.

Okay, so we're in the two Benson.

It's like, oh, well, we didn't release the info about the cornholing, so how did you know that's how he died?

And he's like, come on, cops, gossip, you know that and she's like, well, they didn't tell you the whole story, so it happened here, not at the tombs.

And he goes, well, I can't explain that to you because I was hurt and I went to the hospital.

But he was released at eight forty five, and it says that he went home, but Benson goes, no, the desk sergeant said you came back here, and he goes, yeah, so I stopped at my locker, Like what the fuck I went home.

Finn opens the door and Benson walks out with him, but tells Edmunds to call his PBA rep because he needs them because it's a black light party, all right.

Trail of blood all over the stalls on the mop broom.

It's messy, it's glowing.

The murder weapons found is blood everywhere.

So and it's like, you guys are cops and you don't know how to clean off the blood, Like it's so fucking crazy.

Yeah, wait till you hear the real story.

Oh no, So the guy from the two nine comes in.

You know, he's bald, and I don't know why I keep saying that.

Okay, So he's talking to Creagan and he says that Edmunds gave a confession and he wants to deal.

Finn goes, well, what if the people want more aka you know, the das and stuff, and he goes, listen, the brass wants it quick and quiet, so let's get it happening.

And Benson's mad because it's like, no, there was a Complienxes, we know there was a Complienxes, like we have to figure that out.

He goes, it doesn't matter.

Edmunds is confessing.

He says he didn't have any help.

He just wants leniency and he's gonna confess.

But Finn and Benson are riled up and they want truth and justice.

They don't want these little deals.

So Craigan says, we make deals with purps all the fucking time.

Benson makes a good point cops should be held to a higher standard, and this guy had no what a what a what a way?

What is it?

What an idea?

Yeah, a novel, idea, an idea?

This guy has no time and goes, it's done already and the DA has been notified, so shut the fuck up.

So Benson walks out of the room and we're in cement room bars.

Edmunds is looking down and he's pretty sad.

We hear Cabot's voice while the camera stays on this sad man, and she wants murder too, and twenty five to life.

The lawyer's like, okay, that's not like a and also a dead gang banger who gives a fuck.

And the lawyer's like, you know, a jury will be on my client's side.

He wants man to eight to twelve.

She goes murder two, twelve to twenty five.

He does not think this is reasonable.

Cabot says, he sodomized someone so hard they died.

I want double digits.

So they agreed a man to ten to twenty.

I think his lawyers should have asked for ten to fifteen because she just said double digits.

I don't know, I think whatever.

I don't know what the spread has to be.

I don't know how they even figure this out.

Eight to twelve is so different than twelve to twenty five, which is different than ten to twenty.

I don't know how they even figure these spreads out.

But and I'm here, I think it should be ten to fifteen.

No, he should serve.

So he did murder a man, he's a cop.

Well, you know, I get it.

Yeah, okay, so it's just not that good of a deal.

So she agrees.

Craigan and Benson are waiting for her in the spy window area and Craigan doesn't like it.

She goes, yeah, no, one fucking likes it, but our bosses wanted to go this way.

It is what it is.

Benson just knows Edmunds didn't do it alone, but there is no evidence, and she's like, Torres was a homophobic gang banger, he would have been kicking and fighting for this, okay, Like if you weren't a homo, I think I'd be fighting off getting raped even if I wasn't a homophobic gang banger.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

He really didn't want it, like gay people want to get raped.

Like psychotic Benson.

I get what she's trying to say, though, So she is convinced that people had to hold him down and whoever held him down is gonna walk and Kevic goes, well, let me know it when you figure it out, and I'll take the deal away and she walks off.

Craigan tells Benson that officially the case is closed.

She asks unofficially he goes work fast and stay under the radar, So we got a boy band.

Swoop short Benson hairdoo off to the races.

She goes straight to Melinda and she confirms Benson's hypothesis.

He's got bruising on both his hands and knees and the tile mosaic prints are from the precincts bathroom on his body.

There's a bruise across his shoulder as well, holding him.

So let's start dumping the phones.

What do we get?

Fifty five calls between Edmunds and Cooper in three days.

That's a lot.

Yeah, uh, fifty that's crazy.

Actually, yeah, it's a lot of fucking calls.

So Craigan is worried if one PP finds out about any of this, they'll shut it down, and Benson Infant are worried because Benson and Finn are like, no, we know, we still need more evidence anyways, Like we can't even use the DNA that we find because it could be chalked up to like normal arrest contact.

So they have to keep digging into Edmund's life.

So Finn mentions Stephanie Grayson there is a lot of calls in the log to her as well, so they go visit steph it's Amy Landecker, our friend rind of the.

Pot, what our close friend, Amy Landerger.

I love her, we loved her, we loved talking to her, an inspiration and she knows he's been arrested, but does don't really know for what.

And they ask how long she's known each other, and she explained, since his brother odd, is that a foreshadow?

Okay, so whatever, never mind?

Since his brother odied, she's a nurse and she was there on the case.

He took the death really hard, you know, his parents were dead and he basically raised his brother.

And then they pivot and they ask if like he could be taking the heat for somebody and maybe he didn't do something, and she looks guilty as hell and just SIPs her coffee and walks away.

Knowingly, Benson threatens to take her downtown.

So Amy sits down Amy Landecker, and she goes, what's it about this drug dealer?

Like, why do you guys even care?

And Benson goes, what drug dealer?

You're gonna have to be more specific, you know, So she says Vasquez.

And we didn't really hear about Vasquez.

So basically Edmunds wanted to catch Vesquez because he was like this piece of shit criminal drug dealer who kept slipping through the system.

And one day, you know, he was tailing him.

They busted him with a gram.

But then he pulled out a knife, so Luke had to shoot him and it really messed him up.

But then she goes but then I gave him a different perspective.

He's a bad guy, a drug dealer.

For God's sake, Luke was saving someone else's kid brother.

And there's tears in her eyes.

She is so like convicted in this.

So now Finn and Benson are outside the apartment, the leaves are off the trees.

It's layfall, Finn or is it January?

I said no, it aired in January.

It aired in January.

Yeah, so they did film in the fall.

Finn closes his flip phone, so satisfying, so cool, and he says, she wasn't lying about the story.

And to me, it's like why would she.

She gave you a lot of information and like told you that he killed somebody, Like why would she make that up?

It's not like it's making him look better.

But I think she had the story wrong.

So she was telling her truth and what she knew.

But this motherfucker wasn't shot, so his throat was slashed.

So Vasquez's throat was slashed, but he's telling people he shot him.

So that doesn't really help Edmunds or connect him to more dealers.

It doesn't really prove a pattern, Like what the fuck are we going to do with this case?

So Finn goes to Warner to pull matching files and see if there's any other cases with the same bruising or m O in any and anyway.

Benson says, you know, I'll meet you.

I'll meet you over there.

She didn't.

She defies everybody and she goes to the two nine and we have svu icon playing a white shirt desktop.

His name is Bruce Kirkpatrick.

He's in three episodes.

He's the bad guy in season one Stalked and in season six Conscience, he's you know, I have a trouble with that word.

He's a vigilancy.

He's a vigilante and she wants to look at the duty roster and he gives her a hard time, but she schools his ass.

He's gritting his teeth, but he complies.

He's licking his finger as he's going through the pages.

So we figure out that when Vasquez was here or brought it whatever.

Edmunds and Cooper were partnered that day.

So now we head over to Cooper's place and he has a Mercedes, so Benson goes, wow, nice ride, had you afford that?

And then he also has a Corvette in the garage.

He says he has nothing to say about Edmunds.

You know, Edwind said he's guilty's he pled out, like, what do you want?

And Benson goes, I don't know, like a twenty year sentence might make someone change their mind.

Maybe they'll say something different, you know, maybe you can tell me something about Vasquez's throping slit and not just shot.

He goes, I don't know street revenge, Like I don't fucking know.

And so they go, oh, so this girl just like lied about this hero story and he goes, no, that woman is a badge bunny.

I'm sure she played it all up in her mind, building him up so she could fuck a hero cop.

And I love.

I mean, I've never heard badge bunny before.

That's gonna this episode I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna be a badge bunny for Halloween next year.

In New York City.

You're like, I'm a girl that likes to fuck cops.

Well, i'll wear I'll dress up.

I'll just dress as a bunny and with a badge.

Okay, yeah, yeah that's it.

Those will get it, get it that.

It was fun.

Yeah, I like dress.

Yeah, I'm gonna be a badge bunny.

Maybe maybe I'll find one more Halloween opportunity.

I bought too many costumes this year, so whatever.

So he's like that she's a whore.

She played it up in her mind.

I don't know what she's talking about, like, leave me alone, and he goes, you know what I'm saying, and she leans and closed to him and says, if I find out that you're a murdering bastard, I'm gonna nail your ass.

You know what I'm saying.

Finn is waiting for Benson to return, and he is like, dude, you went over to the two nine.

And he's mad that.

You know, she wasn't honest with him, but she was like, I was just trying to protect you because I'm going to get in trouble.

And then he lets her know that a detective from fraud is waiting for her, so she goes, yeah, you know he's living above his means.

We got to figure it out, and let's see if Edmunds did too.

But Edmund's no bank role.

He lives super frugal, little savings, no assets.

He's poor.

Cooper's wild, but all his assets are under his wife's name.

But he has a property in Boca, He's got cars, he has other real estate holdings.

But you know, he's honest quote unquote on his tax returns because he says, you know, they write it off his gambling and so he pays his taxes on these like gambling wins.

So now they're going to try to call all the casinos and see if it's even possible to win all that money in Atlantic City and how they were able to do that.

But they are on a time crunch.

Edmunds is supposed to allocute in two days, so Cooper is free.

Edmunds is taking the fall.

Why Why so Benson thinks Edmunds didn't know what Cooper maybe was up to, like he was doing it because his brother was an addict and maybe didn't realize that Cooper was getting paid.

Or do we mean that no or yeah?

Or that Cooper was doing this for money and that's how he was able to like afford all these things.

So the finance fraud guy, I asked Benson, like, what do you think is up?

And she says, well, I think he's getting paid for dead bodies.

And Cabot comes in, She's pissed.

What couldn't wait till tomorrow morning?

And she says, I need a wire tap on Cooper And you know, we think he's getting paid money to killed drug dealers.

And Edmund's brother was killed by drugs, so it's personal, but Cooper all about the cash.

And they repeat this over and over and over again.

So Cabot's like, bitch, if I'm waking up a judge, I need solid evidence.

You know, you're like you're in a crusade.

And he and she goes, he's a murderer, fuck him, And you know, her passion does convince Cabot.

So we're gonna so we're gonna get some more.

We're gonna put We're gonna put more into this case.

Werner found five victims that correspond with the bruising signatures.

One was a knife thing, one was beaten to death, one was kicked to death, and three gunshots.

But the common denominator is this deep bruising at the throat and they were all drug dealers and they were all from the two nine precincts.

So now we're in Cabot's nice ass office.

Oh my god, car I didn't tell you.

I was at a bar or a restaurant.

I was at a chop house.

But the each booth you sat at had your own green library lamp Ooh the Tiffany style one.

Well Tiffany is crystally thought.

Oh that's different.

Oh the green library one.

Yes, I know it turned out, Yes, it was different.

Yeah, you dumb bitch.

My dad had one of those green library lands when I was growing up on his desk.

That's cool.

Yeah.

So we're at the office.

Oh god, we need more.

We need more, we need more evidence.

We need Cooper.

There's no evidence, we need Edmunds.

Is he going to renegotiate.

Let's go to the prison.

So we go to the prison.

He's in an orange jumpsuit.

They show him photos of other crime scenes and what's going on, and he's like, I just wanted to get my brother's dealer.

And they're like, well, why didn't you stop?

He goes cuz fuck these guys, they get great lawyers.

They get off.

There's no justice.

Finn goes, if you're doing it for profit, that's not justice, and he's confused what profit, And they reveal that Cooper's making money.

He's shocked.

He doesn't believe it.

Cabot's like, bro, you're down for six counts murder for higher like, no parole there.

He says, I didn't do it.

I made no money.

I was just cleaning up the streets.

And he was like, you know, it wasn't just murder for me, it was a reckoning.

I wanted them off the streets.

Benson goes, okay, well tell us exactly what went down.

He says he can't.

Benson's like, your partner, your ex partner's a dirty cop.

You're not, so like, get the If you want the needle off the table, you need to help us.

The way they wheeled the needle, they really threatened the needle.

So what Cabot need is She goes, you know, if we have like a live victim, that would be great to corroborate.

So there is one Willy Angels, he's twenty if he's serving twenty five in sting sing, Cooper shot him.

He didn't die, but he is in a wheelchair now and in prison, and but like, so basically he shot him.

They planted a drop gun on him to like, you know, explain why that they shot him, and they testified that Willy shot at them, and the jury didn't even blink and that was that.

So now Benson and Finn kind of don't agree with what needs to happen, because Benson's like, we need to get Willy out of there, like he's serving more time than he's supposed to, and Finn goes, leave him there.

We don't need these fuck boys getting out of jail like this.

This is annoying.

But like Cabot and Benson are like, yeah, but he admitted, admitted, admitted to making things up, and he goes, ah, your heart is bleeding all over my shoe, and I like that.

We have to remember that that Finn comes from narcotics, so he's seen like all the shit that drug dealers you know, do, and how they what like they're like he has a personal I think side to this, I know, but he also grew up in the neighborhoods where he knows some people don't have that choice or like the future, so like they're not just to be like, these are scum of the earth, let's clean up the streets.

Is kind of crazy too.

Yeah, it's with season four Finn.

He has not had his evolution yet.

Yeah, but they go to sing Sing, They go to sing Sing Will.

He talks.

He is lifting weights in the wheelchair.

He's keeping busy.

He says, the cops fucked him up and they want to know details, and he goes, fuck you, I hate you.

I hate all of you.

And Finn goes, well, whatever, you're nothing but a drug dealer.

I don't give a shit.

He goes, well, I'm not anymore.

I'm in jail and I'm in a wheelchair, so okay, But they show him the photos of all the cops and he points to the right cops, you know.

He points to Vincent Cooper.

So he's like, am I going to get out of here?

And they go yeah.

He goes, well, I'm going to sue the fucking city and he wheels off and Finn is grossed out, and then we cut to Edmonds in the dark and he's pissed.

He's like, you're gonna let that low life back on the street.

Benson goes yeah, and he calls him scum and Benson goes, he still doesn't deserve what you did to him, Like, why don't you understand that?

And so now we find out why he owes Cooper so much.

A couple of years ago, they were answering a domestic and he walked in.

He never saw the gun, and Cooper jumped in and took the like the bullet.

Oh no, he took the thirty eight out of his hands.

So now he's paying him back by killing people.

So Cooper saved his life, so now he's indebted to him for forever.

But it's like, yeah, but he's doing this for cars and condos and he's using you, like get it together.

Dramatic music's in the background, and she's finally convinced him to testify against Cooper.

He doesn't want to.

She's like, fuck the blue wall, and you know, he does not have the same loyalty to you as you do to him.

He used you, he used your dead brother.

He doesn't give a damn about you.

When are you gonna have the balls to face that.

He's looking down, he's saying nothing.

And now we cut to Benson getting chewed out by Kragan because she defied a direct order and she's gonna get ten days of doced pay.

But it's not like these people, Like what does Benson even spend money on?

Like her savings must be huge.

The bitch's not going out to dinner.

She's not going out.

She's not having it like I don't I don't think she's had haircut, haircuts and colors, bolliage.

You know, she's paying for some but and she randomly knows every Prada Laparola, like every designer thing.

So she's reading Vogue, I guess, but she's not actually buying any of that stuff.

No, you're so right.

I forgot about the hair.

You know she's spent she's dropping hundreds on her hair.

But also Craigan is mad because now all these drug dealers are trying to get out of prison, like so anyone that's been busted by these two cops are now like trying to reverse the charges and so guilty or not, all these people are gonna led the streets.

And Benson goes, sure, but these are dirty cops, and he goes, but you should have kept me in the loop.

We've been blindsided by press scrutiny.

Like fuck the press.

I love how on the show the cops care about press so much, like so fucking much.

I want to know what real life cops, if they care.

Or not in New York, I don't know.

I don't think anybody wants to end up like on the front page of the post.

You know, yeah, Benson says, you know, I did the right thing.

Craigan says, pick up Cooper.

Let's get the bastard off the streets.

So Benson and Fino get him.

They rest him first degree murder.

His partner tries to run up, and Finn goes, relax, rookie, and get a lawyer while you're at it.

So Cooper gets Trevor Langham as his lawyer, Mister mushco Hargate, the personal.

Laundry person, laundry spokesman.

Thank you, but the deal's tough life sentence in exchange for the man you were working for.

He goes, I can't do that.

I'd be dead.

She says, your cooperation is the only thing that stands between you and the needle, and he wants to take his chance with the jury.

Benson goes, that's so stupid.

But Trevor's like, well, you know, ex partner and a drug dealer, cool witnesses, Cool witnesses, You got there, capit goes, Edmunds gets life, You get life with no parole.

He goes, Edmunds, that gullible fool, but whatever, he agrees to the deal.

He gets a yellow note pad and writes down a name and who is it?

At Hector as Hector, the cocky guy we met up top, who is biting his lip.

Smart move, Benson says to him, get rid of the competition, avoid a war by getting a cop to do your dirty work.

He says, this business is cutthroat.

You gotta know what you're getting into.

She says, well, this is one execution I'm going to attend.

He's like, stop acting like a hero.

Death Row is just geography.

And for me, mommy, she says, you're going to be crying like a baby when you take that last walk.

He says, what in ten to fifteen years, A lot can happen between now and then.

Witnesses get amnesia, people up and die.

You never know.

Benson's phone rings.

Damn it.

She leaves.

He scoffs, We're in another jail.

At the end of the walk is Edmunds hanging in his cell sheets suicide, no note.

He just couldn't take it facing what he did and leaves, you know, walking after a good work done.

I hope she gets some wine and you know, dick down for the night and that's dick old baby.

Yeah.

I mean she leaves, but like I would still have sex with Cooper in the Corvette so hot, what a stud.

Yeah.

I just like I feel like she's bummed at the end though, because it's like you can still do all this work and like that guy's right, Like if you if you're on death row for a long time and you have a lot of power, like a lot can happen, Like this guy could get away with everything.

But at least she got some dirty cops off the street.

That's the thing.

It's like these cops, if they have any sense of justice, it's like if you get busted doing even one bad thing, all your cases come into question.

This is what happened in the staircase case, like you know everything, I actually don't know that one very well.

The prosecutor was disbarred.

The blood spatter analysis guy was uh, like you know, lost his license, like ever so many people in that case.

It turned out like we're doing shitty work and then it calls all their other cases into question.

You know.

So I don't know.

I don't know if like in that case a bunch of other cases ended up getting dismissed or whatever.

But that does, especially with cops.

That's bad news, man.

Yeah.

But anyway, let's get into the real story.

Oh, I'm scared.

There's two cases.

There's two cases, okay.

So the first case is Abner Louima who August ninth, nineteen ninety seven, officers from NYPD's seventieth Precinct, or the seven zero, responded to reports of a fight at Club Rendezvous in East Flatbush, which is a neighborhood in Brooklyn.

Uh Abner Louima, a Haitian American man, and others were outside of the club.

Louima said he was just there with his brother and his cousin and he was like stand, he was not part of the fight.

He had a completely clean record.

He had never been in trouble with the police.

Before.

Four officers show up justin Voltpi, Charles Schwartz, Thomas Bruder, and Thomas Weiss.

They arrive at the scene.

They start saying stuff like why do you people come to this country?

If you can't speak English.

They're calling them racial slurs, like these are like not good guys, these cops.

Louima just heard the cops tell someone to shut up.

He had no idea that anyone was talking to him, and then suddenly he was pushed down on the ground and cuffed, and Volpi said like, oh no, Louima attacked me, and the cops arrested Louima for disorderly conduct, obstructing government administration, and resist cigarest.

As they brought him in, they beat the shit out of him like in the car, like using fists, night sticks, police radios.

At the station house, he was strip searched and put in a holding cell until they continued the beating later on.

The assault ended with Luima being sexually assaulted in the bathroom by the officers, exactly like what happened in the episode.

Volpi kicked a handcuffed Louima in the testicles, and then sodomized him with a plunger from the bathroom.

Then he jammed it into his mouth afterwards and broke a bunch of his teeth.

This is like really graphic.

And then after that it's like you were saying, like, what are these idiots like not know, like to wipe stuff off.

This guy paraded through the precinct holding the stick up with blood and shit on it, going and telling people I took a man down tonight.

So he just like was walking around showing like I saw other reports where he was like smell this, smell this, like there was no hiding it.

He was like walking around parading to the weaponry.

Crazy.

So there was another officer in the bathroom helping with the attack, but Luima could not identify which one, and this is like a point of contention later in the trial.

But when they called the ambulance, the cop told Louima, if you ever tell anyone, I will kill you and your entire family.

So he threatens him.

So they take him to the emergency room department at Coney Island Hospital, and the officers brought him in said that his injuries were from quote abnormal homosexual activities end quote.

This is a man who is married with two children.

By the way, not that he couldn't be having homosexual sex, but we know that that's not what this came from.

And so thank god, a nurse named Maggalie Laurent could tell that his injuries were not consistent with consensual sex, and she contacted Louisa's family and iab to tell them that she suspected he was raped and assaulted while in police custody.

Louisa spent two months in the hospital.

He had serious damage to his colon, but he did not die like in the episode.

He survived.

He had serious damage to his colon and a punctured bladder and intestinal tears.

He underwent three surgeries for his injuries.

And when this hit the news, it went national.

People were outraged and like on August twenty ninth, which is, you know, about three weeks after this event happened, seven thousand, more than seven thousand people marched to City Hall and to the seventieth precinct where the assault happened, and the precinct was quickly named the Plunger Precinct.

And this protest was called Day of Outrage against Police brutality and harassment.

So Brian Figuerot, a former ADA and one of Louima's lawyers, said, quote, this is not a corruption case, this is a torture case.

Cops are going to jail end quote.

So Volpi was charged with several counts in Federal Court of violating Willima's civil rights, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to police.

Initially, he pled not guilty, but he changed his plea to guilty halfway through the trial.

Smart move.

When you're parading around the fucking murder like hoopsick tack weapons, it's the arrogance.

It's knowing, you know, the blue gang, the biggest gang is gonna back.

But it's like to parade the shit stick, like to not be a little more care.

Yeah, and he had told people, remember that.

That he had told people that he had been attacked, like he had been hit at the fight when they first got there.

And he's like, I think I got the guy who did it.

He didn't.

It was he admitted finally that Luima was like, never the guy who attacked him.

This is like a guy who was not involved in the fight at all.

He also confessed to the sodomy, but he said he had nothing to do with the damage to his mouth.

He said he held the stick up to his face, but he never put it in his mouth.

But it's like he had smashed teeth, like he had teeth, like his teeth were fucked.

So it's like it got in his mouth.

Somehow, and he also admitted to threatening his life and you know if he ever if he talked so on December thirteenth of nineteen ninety nine, a couple of years later, Volpi is sentenced to thirty years in prison without the possibility of parole, as well as a five hundred and twenty five dollars fine and restitution in the amount of two hundred and seventy seven four hundred and ninety five dollars, so such a specific amount.

On in twenty seventh, two thousand, Charles Schwartz was convicted of helping Volpe assault Louima in the bathroom, and he was sentenced to fifteen years.

And at the time of Schwartz's conviction, a lot of questions were raised about whether he could receive a fair trial in the highly charged atmosphere, and Volpi identified that it was Weiss, not Schwartz, as the second man in the bathroom in a recorded interview on sixty minutes, which was never brought up in at trial.

So Schwartz's conviction was overturned by the US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, saying that he did not get a fair trial due to conflict of interest by his attorney, and in two thousand and two, Schwartz pleaded guilty to a perjury charge for testifying that he did not lead Louima to the bathroom, and he was sentenced to five years in prison, and he was released to a halfway house in February of two thousand and seven, and as of twenty nineteen, he works in New York City as a carpenter, so he's out there.

The other three that were brought to trial, which is brewder Weiss and Sergeant Michael Blomo, were indicted for trying to cover up the assault.

On March ninth, two thousand, Weis and Bruder were convicted on the charge of conspiracy to obstructive federal investigation, but these were reversed on federal appeal in two thousand and two for insufficient evidence.

BelOMO was found not guilty of trying to cover up the beating and that of another Haitian immigrant by Vultpi earlier that evening, so and Volpi was released from prison.

I'm like, what happened to?

No possibility of parole Like he was sentenced in ninety nine, he did twenty four years.

He was released in April of twenty twenty three, so he got out like two years ago, and I don't understand why he got like parole so inconsistent.

I mean, I don't know he served how many twenty years.

Twenty three, twenty four, twenty three years.

Yeah, but you know what was crazy too, is that Vulpi was like everybody was like, he's so racist, Like he did all this stuff out of racism.

He had a black girlfriend at the time who he was engaged to, and she was interviewed.

Actually this guy who's wrote some articles that are in my research named Mike mcali, I mean.

Racist trumper that's married to a black woman.

Yeah, it happens.

I guess it's not it's not impossible.

It's just like this guy Mike mclary, who he actually passed away, but he wrote these pieces for The Daily News and New York Daily News that won a Pulitzer based on this case.

So I've included some of those in my research.

But one of them was an interview with the girlfriend where she was like, he couldn't have done this, Like he's not racist, Like he wouldn't have said those things, he wouldn't have done these things.

Like if he does, then our whole life together is a lie, like I think obviously I don't think they end up together because he goes to jail for twenty four years.

But it was really sad because this woman was like, oh my god, who have I been like having this life with like So anyway, in a tiny touch of silver lining, Abner Louima did settle with the city eight point seven five million dollars on July thirtieth of two thousand and one, which was the which is the largest police brutality settlement in New York City history.

I don't know if that's still true, but that was true at the time.

So after his legal fees, he walked with about five point eight million.

And he's participated in a lot of anti police brutality protests with Al Sharpton, notably after Sean Bell was killed in November of two thousand and six, which was a big one because that was like the night of his wedding or the night before his wedding, I think.

And he also did was at a protest that celebrated ten years not celebrated, but you know, highlighted ten years anniversary of his attack.

So he's I hope he's spent the money smart.

He lives down in Florida now and he's I think he's got some real estate and he's you know, living his life.

But the next case is wild as well.

This is the case of Manuel Pardo.

So this is very interesting.

It's based on a case of Manuel Pardo and then in small part Rolando Garcia as well.

But I'm going to talk about Manuel first.

Manuel Manny Pardo Junior was a cop who worked for the Florida Highway Patrol in the eighties and then he was fired for faking parking tickets.

Then he was hired by the Sweetwater Police Department, which is in Miami Dade County, and he was eventually fired from that job as well in nineteen eighty five for lying under oath during a drug smuggling trial involving a fellow officer.

So I feel like the eighties were like the golden age of like dirty cops and drugs and all this shit.

So after he gets fired from you know, his second law enforcement job, he gets involved in the drug trade and then in nineteen eighty six, he goes on a ninety two day robbery and killing spree, killing six men and three women.

In January of eighty six, he kills Mario Amador and Roberto Alonzo, shooting them dead during a robbery.

Later that month, he kills Michael Millot or Millo.

I don't know how you say this name, who he believes to be a police informant.

And Millo was a gunsmith and he had actually given Pardo silencers for his guns, and uh no, like he bought them from him.

I don't think there were pals.

And then Pardo's partos old partner from when he was at Sweetwater.

His old cop partner was Rolando Garcia, and in this case of Michael Millot's murder, Garcia lures him out to the car where Parto's hiding in the back seat.

When miller gets in the passenger seat, Parto shoots him in the head and then gets the car reupholstered.

Very crime show.

So the next month, February of nineteen eighty six, Pardo kills Luis Robledo and Upiano Laedo during a robbery of their home, and in April.

In April of the same year, Pardo kills four more people and two separate killings.

In one it's two women, Ferrick Quintero and Sarah Musa, who were killed over an argument about a pond ring it was only worth fifty dollars, and allegedly for them refusing to buy Parto a VCR was stolen credit cards.

So this guy is just popping off killing people.

Parto later claimed that he believed Quintero had marked him for death by dialing him number eights on a pager, which is a numerical sign for death in Santa Ria, which is a religion from Cuba.

Sure, but so he's made that at like what I know?

Like, so you're not positive that he's all there if he's killing people based on beeper signals, right, Like, I don't know.

But then the last two murders were Ramon Alvaro and his girlfriend Daisy Ricard, who were shot to death because Alvaro had failed to show up to several drug deals.

So one horrible detail is that after he shot Daisy once, his gun jammed and then he ended up bludgeoning her to death.

And in doing the bludgeoning with the gun, the jammed round went off and it went into Pardo's foot.

So that's how they finally got him, is he was caught in New York City at a hospital where he'd gone to seek treatment for his foot wound.

I was, I thought all of these murders were happening in Florida, where he worked originally, but then they found him at a hospital in New York.

I don't know, but I was like, is this literally where the two term shooting yourself in the foot comes from?

Like what are you doing?

Sir?

Like what an idiot?

Like you're murdering someone and you shoot yourself in the foot.

But I also like, if you're gonna could be playing this life of crime, you better have an underground doctor to do your surgeries.

Yeah, you can't be going to the hospital.

Yeah, you got to have a doctor you've got under your thumb, because you're going to kill his family or.

Something if if he doesn't do the work together.

Yeah, yeah, I bet we could teach a class at the Learning NX how to get away with crimes, how to get.

Away with murder?

Anyway, most of his victims were drug dealers or witnesses in drug cases or like of illegal drug deals going down, So people that were on the fringes of drug Like I don't know if the two women were drug dealers, but they were like involved in drug you know, activity not that anyone deserves to be murdered, but this guy Parto, like he took photos of his victims.

He wrote about his crimes in his diary, which was found eventually along with newspaper clippings.

And I just like love when these serial killers are like teen girls and they have like journals and they're scrap booking, and they're like, this is like gotta gotta keep a memory.

And Parto was linked to the final killings because the bullet in his foot gunshot matched the bodies, and then they linked to other killings using credit cards he had stolen from his victims.

So also very stupid to use credit cards that you've stolen from your victims.

That happens more often than you can imagine.

It really happens all the time.

Yeah, they're always using people's credit cards, like thinking they're gonna get I really, it doesn't make sense to me.

It's so nuts, Like take the cash and get out of there.

But when police searched part of home, they discovered his collection of Nazi memorabilia, which was a little shocking to me because I was under the impression, this is his name is Manuel Pardo, that he was of some Latino dissent, but also like that he practices centaiha and there's a mention of Cuban.

Coffee later that I'll talk about.

Like I was just like and when you look at him, when you look at pictures of him, you're not like, oh, this is like a white Aryan man that like loves Nazis, you know what I mean.

But there's plenty of self hating people that are part of white supremacist groups and stuff like that all the time.

So anyway, he went to trial in nineteen eighty eight, and prosecutors presented evidence that Pardo was a Nazi sympathizer who loved Hitler, loved his work, and despite being portrayed as a racist and anti Semite by the prosecution, Pardo steadily claimed that his mission was just to rid Florida of its drug culture by killing active sellers and buyers of drugs.

He admitted to his crimes, and he said that all nine victims were drug dealers who had no right to live and that he was doing society at faith at his trial.

At his trial, he testified in his own defense, which his lawyers advised against, saying to jurors, quote I am a soldier.

I accomplished my mission, and I humbly ask you to give me the glory of ending my life and and not send me to spend the rest of my days in a state prison.

End quote.

So, prosecuting attorney David Waxman said, no, Parter was a Parto, was a cold blooded killer, and that in his case that he was trying to make was that Parto and Garcia were just drug dealers and they were trying to get rid of their competitors, which is like a little bit of what's happening in the episode too.

It's like one guy like, I don't know, it seems like maybe this was like an after the fact thing.

He's like, no, I was just trying to clean up the streets.

But it was like, stop with your crusades, no one wants them.

Yeah, Like I to think you're the one who it's you know, I was about to say it's Joan of Arc stuff, but I am team Joan of Arc.

Yeah.

So, Pardo was convicted on all nine a first degree murder and sentenced to death.

Because we are in Florida, Garcia was convicted of four counts of first degree murder and sent into death as well.

But he got a new trial in two thousand and two and he pled guilty to four counts of second degree murder, got twenty five years, got out after twenty in September of two thousand and two, and he's probably back on the police force in Florida, to be honest, Like it's Florida.

He's probably a cop right now.

Pardo was eventually executed on December eleventh, twenty twelve, by.

Legal they'll let him do it if someone's asked.

They gave him what he wanted, you give him the opposite.

Yeah, they gave him what he wanted.

But he was he was on death row for twenty four years.

During this time, he was nicknamed the death row Romeo because he would correspond.

He would penpal with all these women, and he got a lot of them to send him money.

So his lawyers did try to block the lethal injection by arguing that he had mental illness, but nobody intervened.

It ended up happening, and reporters that came to his execution could actually not hear his final statement because of a malfunction in the death chamber sound system.

So yeah, there's some you know that they had tech.

They had tech difficulties during his execution.

I know you like to hear about last meals sometimes, so.

His last well, I so now I want to hear about the technical difficulties of penalty community.

I don't know, my god.

So his last meal was rice, red beans, roasted pork, plantains, avocado, tomatoes, and olive oil.

For dessert, pumpkin pie, eggnog and Cuban coffee.

The eggnog is a little unhappy.

I don't want anything that he picked.

Yeah, yeah, that's not for me.

But up under Department of Corrections rules, I read, the meal's ingredients, at least in Florida have to cost forty dollars or less, be available locally and made in the prison kitchen.

So you're not allowed to like order a steak from Morton's or whatever.

You know, it's not like an unlimited thing, and they have to just make it in the prison kitchen.

So I don't know how great it's going to be, even if it's your favorite meal.

Oh they put in a little more effort for someone's last meal.

Yeah, I would hope.

But and then it turns out I read one thing that said that my Manuel Pardo has been referred to as the real life Dexter.

And when I say has been referred to, I mean I found two articles about it, and one one is from AskMen dot com.

So lol.

But first of all, I just wanted to go over it.

It's not going to take too much time, and it's funny.

First of all, they said, there's a resemblance.

I don't know.

If you're in the doc and you can see where I hyperlinked the word picture if you can click on that and please tell me if you think there's a resemblance between Dexter Morgan and this man.

Oh, I mean like physically.

Okay.

Yeah, they're like, well, there's a resemblance physically.

I'm like no, but okay, check this picture.

Wow, look at you hyperlinking there.

He looks more like Pugsley from Adam's Family.

Yeah.

They point out that Jeff Lindsay, who is the guy who wrote Darkly Dreaming Dexter and all the following Dexter books, that that the show is based on, that he lived in Miami his whole life, including the late eighties when this Parto case was like huge in the news, especially in Miami.

Wow.

So also, this guy's name is Jeff Lindsay and Dexter's name is Jim Lindsay when he goes back to Iron Lake.

So interesting.

But also one of the other coincidences they think is a big coincidence is that Manuel Pardo kind of sounds like Miguel Prado, which is Jimmy Smith's character in season three.

All Right, it's a bit of a stretch.

It's a bit it's a bit of a stretch.

He started the rumor.

Well, askman dot com brought in a French serial killer expert.

Okay, a French named stefan Bourg.

So we let people murder.

Yeah, what is life about without murder?

Stefan Burg or whatever, how you say this guy's name said quote, Dexter Morgan has this ritual where he lays out the photos of bad guys he wants to kill, like on his computer, Manny Pardo, he would put the pictures up of people he wanted to kill in his apartment.

That's like not a similarity.

That's like a lot of different serial killers do that.

But really, but and it said, I think a lot of serial killers they find like photos of people that they were targeting.

Oh no, Dexter like made them look at them before he killed them, so they saw what their crimes were, so he knew what they were being murdered for.

I think this is different.

This is like they're just talking about how Dexter, like, you know, find gets a profile of people that he wants to kill, like and then this guy hangs up pictures so it's not that like and then to continue the quote, he goes and like Dexter, he would retain these keepsakes.

While Dexter had his blood slides, Parto would keep the ashes of the cartridges used to kill his victims in an urn which represented the souls of his victims rotting in hell.

I did not That's the end of the quote.

I did not find that information anywhere.

But I don't know if maybe this French expert has this information about the urn and like bullet casings or ashes of bullet casings.

I don't even know what he's talking about.

But basically they're comparing them because they're like they both have a code, even though I think Pardo's code is like not real and was an afterthought.

They both have one young child and then they take mementos and allegedly they're twins, but I don't think it's I don't think it's a real theory.

I just thought it was like fun to mention because we're in the we're in the throes of a Dexter time right now.

But when I was reading about this, it was like the last thing I read, and I was like, what, Liz is gonna love this, But.

I am no.

The Miami of it all is interesting and maybe hearing about it, but this guy seems very religion like I am the hero, I am being told to do this.

I'm reading like Dexter didn't have that holier than that.

Yeah, you know Dex's he's plagued by this.

I think it's so crazy too that he was just like out there killing people for like three months and they didn't find him until he shot himself in his own foot, Like how long would it have kept going?

Like pretty wild anyway.

But that's I mean, I it sucks people were murdered, but you know, no rape, that's like, that's positive.

That's positive.

Although in Abner Louima's case there was yeah, bad, yeah case, but you know, we got.

Where we can.

I hope that getting the biggest civil suit ever hurt the NYPD and made his life a little bit tolerable after what happened to him.

But let's uh, we've got a great guest, so let's get to the guests.

Our guest today, if you haven't figured it out yet, we're so excited is an actor who has had leading roles on shows like Army Wives and The Inspectors.

But you also know him as five different characters on laudern SVU, including the ever agitated Chief Tom McGrath, the aggressive Boss.

But you know today is a different character, the coffee lid licking officer Les Cooper.

Please enjoy our conversation with the iconic Terry Serpico.

It's such a pleasure to have you.

But also, I'm like scared I'm about to get yelled at.

I know, I'm afraid I'm gonna yell at myself.

You know, it must be fun to play McGrath.

I mean, or are people mad at you in the streets?

Do people?

Yeah?

Yeah, people that were a little pissed off at me sometimes for being so mean to Olivia, you know, But I've had that throughout my career where people would come up to me and give me a shit for being mean to characters that that were beloved and that that meant something to them, and I just I meant nothing other than I was the antagonist in their world.

Well, first of all, you're like one of the most recurring people on this You you do four episodes as different characters before you come back.

As a raph.

Yeah, and so like we've already covered on our podcast, like at least one other episode that you've been in.

Well, I wanted to ask, first of all, because you said people come up to you on the streets and are mad at you.

Do you mostly play kind of like jerks or would you say it's like fifty to fifty?

What would you say the percentages of you?

Because on SVU you've played a couple jerks and then a victim and then a big jerk.

So what like career wise?

What's people just?

People just don't like me.

They just come up and yell at me.

But like I just had that kind of face.

I guess I know.

No, when I played Colonel Shertwood on Army Wives, Yeah, I had people come up to me off and give me, give me shit for being mean to Denise or putting her on a sex schedule or demanding you know that she behave like an officer's wife.

Wait, I got to watch army wives.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had people come and shake their fingers in my face.

But don't you don't you talk to me that way?

Don't you have put on a sex schedule?

You know?

And then and uh, and with McGrath, yeah, it was it.

Was often somebody like, you know, you're you're you're such a great character, but you're so mean.

You're so mean to Olivia?

Why are you so mean to Olivia?

Every episode?

It's like, I'm just pissed off?

And so would you say?

That's like more though, what you usually get cast for, like meaner guys or have you played I haven't everything you've ever done, but I feel like most of what I've seen you've done, you are like a stern and sort of yelly kind of guy, which is not how you appear to be in real life.

Thanks.

Yeah, I I I have most definitely played that type of character throughout my career.

I have that kind of I guess, command presence.

Yeah, you know, so, I've played a lot of soldiers, a lot of cops, a lot of.

Authoritarian type figures and and uh, I do have a tendency to be that guy that comes in yells at the young bucks to go do their jobs, and then gets back in the big black car.

And drives away.

A crime will just have happened.

And he's like, the presses outside figure this out.

I'm like, just happened.

I want to rest.

Yeah, I don't care.

It's I ran rough shot over so much procedure and and the NYPD protocols and just correct law enforcement.

I'm like, I don't care, I just want Yeah.

So fun, it's so fun.

But this did you any chance you rewatched this episode?

Rotten?

No, you do you remember anything about it?

Rotten?

Yeah, you did it about twenty two years ago.

I'm sure you remember.

Oh god, was that was that?

What did I?

I didn't raper, but I said, no, no, no.

You're murdering drug dealer.

Now that was the first episode you did.

You're thinking of season one when you did an episode you did this one.

Yes, this episode is obviously want to talk all about your McGrath stuff, but we like talking to people about the early stuff as well.

And Rotten, you're playing this dirty cop which named Les Cooper, and I remember that.

Yeah, And I I was thinking, it's very interesting that you're playing a dirty cop.

And your last name is Cerproco, which is sort of like synonymous with calling out.

And did you know that the Internet gets confused and things that your Cerproco's son.

Yes, so when you Google you, it's like says that you're his child.

And I'm like, I think so my dad is Frank Serpico.

Was Frank the same name, different Frank my brother as well, So there were there were Frank Serpicos all over the place.

In fact, I'm we've got to be related to the more famous Frank Serpico, although not when you asked my dad, he was no means more famous than my dad in his mind.

My dad was a career soldier, Okay, I retired to full colonel in the regular Army, and he was a hard ass army officer pretty much, and you know, he softened quite a bit after he retired.

But so the command presence that I get cast a playoff and comes naturally.

I grew up with it.

And you ended up playing a military guy on SVU as well, and that in the episode Military Justice.

Oh yeah, I was.

I was a Coastguard.

Yeah, coast Guard, which is the Armed Forces.

Yeah, yeah, God, I did a I auditioned like twelve times before I got my first booking on any of the Law and Order franchise at the time.

I think my first one was Criminal Intent and it was this the non speaking part where I'm playing a hitman who's gonna who's collecting his bag of tricks and leaving the room.

But I auditioned like twelve so it was like my sacrificial lamb.

I figured, you know, I'm not going to book this, So that's the one I'm not going to book.

Let's just go do it.

Move on to the others.

And then finally I started booking, and then yeah, I did.

I did a lot of episodes.

Yeah, and then they never stopped booking.

You really the episode we're talking about, though, what rotten?

There's this there's this scene in there, one of my first scenes with Marishka, where my partner hands me a cup of coffee.

We're standing on the street.

The only question I wanted to really ask you about this episode?

Thank god you remember it?

You licking the coffee lid.

I don't know, I mean, don't, don't.

Doesn't everybody do that.

It's like, you know, you've lift it up and it's like there's like coffee there there's like and I did that, and Mariska like after the tape, she's like, oh my god, did you just lick your coffee cup lid?

And I was like, yeah, I've probably seen this episode ten times.

I've never clocked that that's something that Lisa would notice.

And she noticed it and was like, I'm gonna ask about this.

I never thought you would remember.

And I had like this was that direction?

Was that written?

It looks very natural?

Yeah?

So natural.

But I've never been as spontaneous since.

And I'm still chasing that dragon like.

Such a good character choice.

I don't know, but okay, natural.

I'm so glad you remember that.

That's like, that's why I asked if you watched this episode, because I was like.

You might not remember this coffee moment, but you did well.

Like the McGrath episodes are like so like the McGrath episodes are like, you know, you're not always the main focus, and like this one you're sort of a focus.

And then the one episode where your daughter is victimized when you're McGrath, Unfortunately it's not based on a true crime, and that's kind of how we do our podcast.

So we didn't focus on that episode, but like, you know, we're going to talk about your whole tenure.

Did you like what you So you finally got cast, but you got cast on SVU in season one, you're in the episode You're in an episode called Closure.

Then you do US season four, season six, season fifteen, and then you come back for twenty two through twenty five.

What have you noticed any like changes on the show since like you started, when you really have like a vantage point of seeing the show grow over like a quarter of a century.

No, I've been pretty much unconscious my entire Yeah, pretty much.

When I first started doing this, I was like I was in high school and I was doing the plays in school.

And then high school roles.

I hadn't done anything.

I was just I was just a jock, you know.

I mean, if I had a ball, I was out there and playing with it.

Uh.

And I went to see the musical in my freshman year of high school, and I thought it was how to Succeed in Business without really trying.

And I thought, wow, that looks great.

They're having a great time and there's cute girls and the leotards and great parties and you know, so I'm gonna do that.

So next the next year, I auditioned and I got the roll of Snoopy and You're a good man, Charlie.

But yeah, so I was kind of up to my neck.

And then in the subsequent years, uh, you know, organized sports kind of went by the wayside as I devoted more of my time to acting and dancing.

I danced ballet for a couple of years, and I was doing choreography and doing said building, doing you know everything.

I got sucked in.

I'd found my tribe.

And then I was just I just started looking for theater training programs.

I didn't conscientiously say, oh geez, I want to be an actor.

I was just like, oh, I guess I'm doing this.

And then I got out of Sunny Purchase and I was like, well, I guess I'm going to New York.

Yeah.

I you know, I was lucky enough to have an agent pretty early on for at least a little while.

So I was like, Okay, I guess I'm doing this.

And I went and I got a survival job ten and Barr and I attended bar at the Rodeo Bar for twenty two years.

That's so crazy.

I first I went.

Looking I got the job, and I didn't give up the job until I was a series regular on Army Wise.

I grew up like right outside of New York City, and I one of my first like trips into the city that I can remember as like a more sentient person was like when I was in sixth grade, my parents took me to see Secret Garden with my best friend on Broadway and we went to Rodeo Bar and got food and well, I kept the little plastic monkeys and like there were these little plastic like charms that they put on like the glasses that I kept forever.

I was like, these are from a bar in New York City.

Like I thought they were so cool.

And then I saw in your Wikipedia that you used to bartend at Rodeo, and I was like, I wonder if this man like served my parents or drink when I was like sixth grader.

Probably did.

Your dad was rushing to the bar while nobody was looking at.

But yeah, Rodeo was like forever, that was like an institution.

It's gone now though, right, uh it is.

Yeah, it's now.

It's called the Gem Saloon and it's They've done a beautiful job renovating it, but yeah, we were there.

I was there for twenty two years.

And you have such a long career.

You've been working for so long and so many credits, and that's while that you were attending bar the whole time too.

If you want to call it a career, you go right in.

Yeah, I've been fortunate enough to uh book a lot of roofing jobs.

Basically, I'm like an acting roofer.

I don't know.

I just I come here, I do the job, and then I kind of But you.

Have like eighty four credits.

I mean you've been You've been regular on many shows.

This is not like a hobby.

I've been recurring on many shows.

Yeah, a series regular once on Army Wives.

I was heavy recurring.

Really because this other show you did like one hundred episodes of some show called The inc.

The Inspectors.

Yeah, The Inspectors.

Yeah I was.

I was a series regular.

I'm like, I got your IMDb right in front of me, Terry, I'm going to call you out if you're going to be.

And I directed several episodes of that as well.

Oh yeah, I was nominated for a Daytime Emmy for that show.

Can I ask you about you?

And like Marishka like you are in your three seasons as McGrath, you have you are just constantly screaming at her.

And you know, like and she keeps proving you wrong.

She is correct every single time.

I don't her stand this guy got a word?

Yeah, yeah, yes, you know, but like when you guys when they like one pp is breathing down my neck when they cut, are.

You guys like joking with each other and stuff?

And like absolutely, I mean Mariska most definitely, uh sets the tone.

It's her show that it's it's we're all we're all living in her world there, and she's she sets a beautiful tone there because she works really hard.

She cares very deeply about the material.

She's very professional and loves to play, loves to to find other ways and that all the various ways that this material is going to make sense, and is adamant that it tracks obviously as a producer and you know, doing the show for as long as she has, you know, it's it's it's got to make sense.

And she loves to keep it light on set.

Yeah, it's when it's time to work, it's time to work, but there's always time to laugh.

Yeah, Chris McGrath is such a dick, and he's he's in a long line of other dicks, like I mean, Peter Gallagher's character came before you, who was like always before him.

Yeah, online of men who don't trust Benson, who.

Don't trust Benson even though she's been leading this squad for twenty something years.

They have the same objectives, they just have different ways of going about yea, I have.

You know, McGrath has an awful lot of political hoops he has to jump through.

And yeah, I mean there were there were times I certainly compromised her investigation, but that's uh, that's that's TV.

Yeah.

But then you know, he starts therapy.

He listens to his daughters a little right at the very growth growth.

As soon as these men grow, they leave the show as soon as they have the growth.

I should I should have seen her.

I said, no, I'm not going to do that.

Yeah, David David Garziano, who is running the show at the time, you know, calls me.

He says, look, I'm not writing you off, and it's like, oh, here it comes.

But you know you're gonna pull a gun on your neighbor and lose your job.

And then you're gonna end up being like the happiest, like just regular old homicide detective on the NYPD.

And well that never panned down.

So hey, they could always bring you back.

They could for an old Yeah you don't, you didn't die, I.

Didn't go to jail.

You're also pretty shitty to Garland.

To the guy who plays Garland, I wrote down him, I see failure written all over you.

Pretty well.

They they he seemed like a nice guy.

I don't know why you were so mad at him.

I wasn't.

I wasn't, but they, yeah, there was.

There was a decision had way up the flagpole, and it came to me just to be the one that that said things like that to him.

I felt bad, though, because you know, it was like I ended up basically replacing that actor.

And you know, in fact, I ended up replacing another actor because he got COVID just before he was due to shoot as McGrath.

Oh really, it to me?

Yeah?

Chance?

What is Chance's last name?

Chance?

Wow?

You even he's been on the show for for many many times?

To Chance, Gosh, Chance, Kelly Chance Slaughter.

I'm sorry, Chance, Kelly Chance, I'm sorry.

Oh yeah, wait, this guy was gonna be McGrath.

Was going to be a graph and it's it's my understanding that I don't see it.

He was slated to do McGraph.

Yeah, he got COVID and couldn't do it all that, and uh, my agent, my agent calls me and I'm like, standing there in my garden up and beacon.

That's what I did during COVID was I doing the brand new garden in the backyard.

So it's no, I don't have a garden, but I'm standing in my garden.

My agents like, where are you?

Because I was going back and forth to Charleston at that point, so I'm in my garden.

He says, no, what's state?

I said, I'm here in New York.

So well, can you can you be down in the peer sixty two to COVID test today or like in an hour?

And I was like no, but I can be down there in like three hours.

Okay, well do that and then I started the next day.

Wow, yeah, he's well, he's in the same as view where you're wearing the aviators the boxing Tommy Baker's artist fight play.

Oh so you guys actually cross paths.

That was like the ball and they thrown because they you know, they felt bad.

I guess that he had to give up the Migrat.

And it was only supposed to have been a few episodes, and it just turned into.

Yeah, more and more reasons.

Yeah, just great.

I'm happy to have been a part of this juggernaut in order to be a part of this this really wonderful show that does great things in terms of giving voice to people that have been victimized that may not otherwise have that voice or.

Feel as though they've achieved justice for themselves.

At least they can vicariously through SVU.

I think that's wicked important.

Beautifully said we feel that about this show.

Yeah, I think it's great.

Absolutely.

This is a insane question and you're probably not going to know the answer, but I'm going to ask you.

Your character's name is Tommy McGrath.

There are on this show throughout the twenty six seasons, there are dozens of characters named Tom or Tommy.

One of our listeners went through and there is literally one to two in every season.

There are dozens wow of characters named Tom or Tommy.

And I was just wondering if you add any intel, like, is that the name of Dick Wolf's dog, Like are there's so many Tommy's and Tom's on the show.

It was his.

It was his slid when he was a child.

It was just a little snow slid.

Said said Tommy, I have no idea.

And then so one of your first another show Lisa Loves is OZ and you did to that was like one of your first jobs.

I did watch that in my childhood.

It's pretty fucked up.

But that is that.

That probably explains a lot.

I mean, I don't know you, but I'm pretty fucked up.

I'm really fucking I really wanted to for the Killers.

And so when we got HBO, I mean that was that was it?

Because then you kept it was Maloney's I'd ever seen in television.

Oh yeah, well it's the craziest thing that most people had seen on Tovison.

Yeah, it was.

It was astoundingly cutting edge for for television.

Was a genius.

Yeah, Maloney was on.

In fact, Chris Maloney managed the Rodeo Bar when I was there.

No, he was a manager for for like a hot minute and just fucking hated it because he wanted to be an actor.

Three he is now, you know, he wanted to.

Be there and he was really close and it was just like that frustrating kind of harm.

But yeah, we were.

We worked together for a little bit at the Rodeo bar and then to be able to regal one another with stories once we saw each other on set.

Oh, Sabler and McGrath playing cocktail in real life.

Right.

I love this, Yeah, shooting doing some bottle tricks.

I love this to my giving me a Shirley Temple as a sixth grader.

There we go.

I I am obsessed with that.

Yeah, because he's not really in this episode, Rotten.

It's like an all Marisha episode.

I don't know if he had like something else to do that day, but it's like all but you'd been in other episodes with him.

I never, I know, on all the episodes I did of of SVU, I never worked with him.

It wasn't until I crossed over his McGrath and did see that.

And did he remember you from the rodeo days?

He remembered what I told him?

Yeah, that's crazy.

What do you have next?

What do you?

What?

Should where should find you?

I was hoping they would find me on the water front for season two, but that guy canceled.

Yeah, That was a bummer because I was I was positioned to be the bad guy in season two.

Oh damn, that's like a sort of a thrillery Netflix show, right, Yes it is.

It's like kind of like Ozark, but at the at the beach instead of on the lake.

Got it?

You know, I would have I would been playing like a cartel family leader.

And we love Hult mccallamie.

He's a sv guy.

Holpe mccownie's great.

He's he's a good dude.

He's also with the same agency for a while.

We were auditioning for the same things.

I think we both auditioned for man Hunter.

Yeah, mind Hunter for Bill Tench and I saw him in.

The elevator one day at Buckwell and I was like, I'm so glad you got it because you're just so fucking perfect.

Good.

Yeah, he does, he does.

He does a good hold.

Yeah.

No, So I wish I was doing something right now, but I'm not.

No.

What I am doing, though, is I'm writing.

I just finished.

I just wrote typed in the end on a screenplay that I've been working on for some time.

Great, which is great.

So now so now the grunt.

Work really starts, because now I go back into rewrite and reno, visions and revisions and stuff.

But it's it's it's in good shape.

I've got another one that i'm finished, that it was finished a couple of years ago, that I'm kind of reworking.

I'm really enjoying.

I've always I've always been a capable and I've been a good writer, but I've never been a writer.

Never had a writer's discipline, you know.

I always maintained it.

It's like, Okay, I can write because I can put words together, and you know, I'll get a goodyear for dialogue and decent ability to structure something.

But I'm not a writer.

I don't have the discipline as well.

I've been writing, like, you know, hours a day now, wow, because it's great.

It's especially in my end of the industry.

As an actor, you have so little control.

Over anything anything.

I mean, decisions are being made about your life by people you have never met, don't know, we'll we'll never meet, you know, And when writing, at least you have I have control over well everything, I have control over something.

And you know, we'll see.

Uh.

You know, my manager's pretty excited about it.

I need to talk to my agent, and when I'm ready to have the Literary Department of Book qualityke a look at it and we'll see it.

It'd be really nice.

It's it's well, thank you, thank you.

I really appreciate your script.

Is very difficult.

It's very difficult, and I have I've been working really hard at it and I've put some some real heart into it, and I've really enjoyed the process.

It's given It's given me a lot.

It's really it's given me a lot.

Well, this was amazing.

Thank you so much for talking to us.

Even if your wife bullied you into it, we hope you had a good time.

She did not.

I was so happy to do this.

That was and we did it.

We got it.

We got him, We got him, We finally got We had him on our list and he had said like that, he had said yes forever ago, and then we finally nailed him down.

It's really a testament to this show because sometimes we'll do episodes and I'm like, I've been dying to do this.

I've wanted to do this episode.

I've wanted to talk to this person, and yet it still took years because there's so many others we wanted to like.

It is crazy that it keeps being exciting.

Yeah, but I also love when you pick up on some minute thing and you're gonna ask the guest about it, and in my mind, I'm always like, I wonder if they're even gonna know what she's talking about.

And he totally was like, wasn't I like going to town on that coffee lid?

Like he was totally remembered how much he licked a coffee lid twenty years ago.

Like that's kind of what I think is like the fun little magic moments in our interviews.

So I what a blast.

He's so kind of nice.

Of course, I know he's not going to come on here and be like, what's what this podcast?

Get it done?

You know, Like, well, I'm really open honest.

I felt like he went deep and also remembers stuff.

And I'm such a follower.

Like two days ago, I was on the phone with my friend and she ordered a chop cheese on the phone, and then yesterday I got a chop cheese.

Have I ordered a chop cheese one time in my life?

Never?

Just inspiration?

I would say influence following If you're influenced, yeah, but you're also open to trying new things, like I would hear chop cheese.

Wouldn't get that.

I don't even know what that means.

What does that mean?

What's the meat in it?

It's it's like a burger, but it's chopped up with the cheese in a bread like roller hero.

But I lettuce and onions and mayo.

Sorry, okay, okay, okay, I wonder if you could do that with impossible meat anyway, He asked if I wanted ketchup too, But I don't like ketchup in my sandwich, in my stuff or even my burger.

I like it on the side for dip to ding.

I wouldn't even dip the burger.

I'd rather have mayo.

I'd rather have like a fun little sauce, the Shakeshack sauce.

Like I don't want ket Yeah, I mustard.

On my burger.

Really, that's my preference, is a mayo or a or a sauce.

But if I don't have that, I need ketchup, like I need something to like lubricate the sandwich.

Sorry to that word, but like I grease is lubricant enough for me.

I just can't too dry.

But that'd be the merch grease is lubricant enough for me?

Please let us know if you would like like a dishrag that says please let us know, please, handkerchief?

Should we make bandanas?

What do you guys use?

Like, I don't get it.

I don't know what to do.

The environment's fucked, like I don't know.

Yeah, this weekend, but from throwing things away giving things away, I got and I got rid of maybe six or seven bags.

Oh, everything is still full to the brim.

Like I don't know how I'm I don't know that.

I don't know how it Like it's so hard to actually declutter.

I mean, I don't know.

Maybe a professional I don't know.

But also like Terry, Okay, Terry's hot now too, but like I just think like he's one of the great faces underrated of our time.

Young Terry is throughout.

Oh my god, yesterday I had the gayest night of my life.

Actually, so my friend we my friend hosted a Sex and the City trivia board game night.

I love it, and so me and the other girl that came.

I came in a beret holding a McDonald's like I have a McDonald's backpack.

And then she came in a top hat with a WHI so like we you know, I brought an entimens for like you know that the I'm Keeping the Baby episode like we were in and yeah, we like watched Sex and the City on you played the board game.

Then we started watching Titanic screen tests on YouTube and it was Kate with Jeremy Sisto did a full screen test with Kate Winslet.

And then we just started looking at old Leonard DiCaprio.

Then we watched Britney Spears making of a video crazy and I was like and then I went I didn't go home.

I went out to the bars.

But what a what a gay night?

Such a gay night?

Wait?

Wait man, there were two gay men there.

That that makes it gay as well?

Was the board game?

Like you had to no trivia?

Like oh yeah, And like so Drew's boyfriend ned like he's watched it once.

Maybe he's also ten year like younger than us, but and he but he's really smart.

He went to Stanford, so he fucking he was kind of a genius.

Because it was like, what is the car that chip the stockbroker that dated Samantha drove and the three of us knew immediately.

We all looked at each other like media, melissa'scous and Melissa Rich she did the Sex and the City bus tour.

So like we just and he goes, well, the timing is before g Wagon, it wouldn't be a land Rover.

What is the g Wagon douche car of that time?

And then he was able to guess Hummer, and I'm like, that's that's an Ivy League education.

Yeah, that's the.

Process of elimination.

Like you don't know the answer, but you can.

Yeah.

It was like incredible to wash but we knew every Yeah.

It's it's you roll a dice, you get trivia.

You want the there's like the big deal car at a friend of me car.

There's cars.

It's convoluted for some reason.

Yeah, and then sometimes you have to ask stuff out.

But it's trivia.

It's like most it's hardcore trivia.

But one of the cards is that you don't want is Walk of Shame and it says you're moving to Brooklyn.

It's like an old game.

It's an old game.

We are moving to Brooklyn.

It was really really fun.

But I don't know why I starting about Leo Oh, one of the greatest faces of our time.

I don't think like Leo and Titanic.

It's kind of like Brittany and Baby one more time, Like I don't know if we have had such an earth shattering face moment act ever again like him on the doc, Like I don't know, I don't know if there's a better face than Leo and Titanic.

Interesting, Okay, I mean, do you have even a suggestion?

Because I think Brad Pitt is very hot?

But then yeah, think then because in seven, like he is hot, but then you're like next to Leo, I said, Icanic Leo.

No, I don't know, I think because I'm just gonna say, I don't know if this is real.

I don't know.

I because I watched Leonardo DiCaprio on Growing Pains Cprio di Cprio, But because I watched him on Growing Pains when he was like thirteen.

For some reason, in my mind, he's like never aged more than thirteen.

Like to me, he's a boy still.

And I've always been hot for Brad Pitt, so like I would say, a Brad Pitt would always win for me over But even though I think even I'm not Brad Pitt's personality and like whatever he's done recently.

No, Okay, the iconic I guess Hot Brad would be fight Club, but it was not as pivotal, earth shaking of a look and a heart throbbingness as Leo and Titanic.

So we're not even just talking hot, We're talking a generational changing face moment move.

That's why no one's recreated Brittany.

No one has had a Britney moment where it's like she went down that hallway, she clicked her little pencil and the world changed.

Pop music changed, aesthetics changed, everything changed.

And that's how I feel with Leo and Titanic, Like I can't think of a and I'm sure our listeners will let me know, but like I can't think of.

I think a lot of people kind of say that, like he's pretty iconic in like Legends of the Fall.

I think a lot of people that did not change the culture.

You're out of your mind.

You're out of your mind.

Here you are reaching, you are reaching.

I'm literally just you'r honor, she's reaching sustained.

Okay, I'll stop.

Legends of the Fall.

I don't even think that even gross one hundred million dollars, you are out of your mind.

Ah, that no, I'm looking up Legends of the Fall gross right now, My god, one hundred and sixty worldwide, one hundred and sixty million worldwide.

I take it back, and I apologize, but no, I hear what you're saying.

Him on the door, that's what you mean, him on the door, him on the dock, just the face.

Yeah, yeah, the nervous this like sweet Bowl.

Titanic was a Titanic was a cultural like Touchtows because then you watched Jeremy Cisto's screen test and you're like, walk the plank, get out the go, find the heart of the ocean, get.

Out of here.

Yuh bitch, I'm sorry, I got so passionate.

I just and I would like to know of another one the thing at the end of the day.

I would like to know what rivals that moment, and maybe there's something before my time.

I just, of course there's something before my time, like Robert Redford, like I know there's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's other, There's yeah, there's other Like.

Yeah, I.

Understand in my time of consciousness from like mid nineties to today, I don't think that level of like beauty acting cultural impact has been replicated.

Okay, I hope.

I hope people write in and tell us to go to our Instagram and tell us what you guys think.

Brad is the closest because that movie was huge, Yes, and those muscles he was, you know, but it was dirty and he fucked a lot in that movie.

It was like, you know, yeah, I mean, oh god, it's like I think about his Thelma and Louise.

But again, he was a very small part in that movie.

Yeah, he's a very small part in that.

He's just so hot and that I think was like what broke him.

But okay, let's do our quick post mortem on this.

I did have a crime thing.

Let me just say a crime thing, okay, okay, okay.

So I saw this obviously video.

On the internet.

Where'd you think I saw it?

Okay?

So it's about the Idaho murders.

And what I really liked about this woman she was speaking about the killer and she used his prison numbers.

She referred to him as his prison numbers.

She did not say his name, and I liked that, and I think that a big fuck you to like, you know, people like that.

But she said, you know, there's a theory conspiracy.

I don't know.

I'm actually I wish I was more familiar with the case.

So there was a dog and the dog didn't react or get hurt, Like, the dog was fine, and so there's a theory that she, one of the victims did.

Like the survivor said that one of the victims felt like she was being watched and stuff.

And at one point the dog ran into the woods behind the house and didn't come back for a while, and they noticed that he was doing that often, and they think that because she felt watched and that the dog might have knew him, that he was in the woods kind of feeding treats to the dog and like getting the dogs used to him.

Yeah, so by the time he came back, it was like, oh, that's my you know friend in the woods that gave me food.

Oh shit, yeah yeah, that's chilling.

Yeah, like that the dog didn't bark or like no one heard barking or anything you know that would that would be that is interesting.

Fuck, that's a crazy theory.

Yeah yeah, I mean also sentence Lands the Coveting.

Yeah, I thought I thought about you watching that movie.

I mean I thought about you guys watching it as a family, and I think that's like, you know something that's fun, but yeah, pretty fucked.

I mean think about us sitting around the table, like we watched it as kids alone, like without our parents, and then at the table we would be like, uh, I'm looking for a Frederica Bimmel.

Like we would literally just do accents.

We would be like, we would just do all the voices and be like, uh, you know, like would you fuck me?

I'd fuck me.

We would like do that at the dinner table, and our parents would be like, what are you doing?

You know, so.

Like, yeah, I woke up the morning after the Oscars.

And was like did it win?

Like we were so obsessed with that movie, even though it terrified me so deeply, I don't think.

I think I also probably didn't understand when I watched it, like exactly what was happening.

Like I don't think I realized he was making suits out of women's skin.

The first time I watched it.

I was like twelve, you know, Like I think I was like, oh, he's killing women and putting them down the well and whatever, Like I didn't understand the whole like they're down the well so he can starve them so their skin can be bigger, like any of that like so it's really such a terrifying movie, but I love it so much.

Is so cute, and also like the scene where like she does she shoots him and then you know she like the terror on her face that one hurt the oscar.

Right like it was like I mean, yeah, yeah, Anthony Hopkins like so scary forever, like even when he plays normal, Like well, then I went.

To sleep too.

Hannibal.

Oh my god, I put on Hannibal on my laptop and went to bed.

The movie of that and the show I watched the show Hannibal that was crazy with Matts Michaelson.

I remember read Dragon because I was obsessed with Edward Norton.

But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.

The switch.

Like I don't know, I don't like Julian Moore as the character have a different character, different detective.

Yeah, I don't get it.

It's weird.

Okay, let's wrap up.

Let's get to our what would Sister Peg do this week?

Obviously, I mean we barely did a post mortem, but the post mortem is the fucking cops are a lot of the times making money and corrupt.

So that's the that's the takeaway.

So this week for our what would Sister peg do, which is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization or a book or an article or something to give you more information about what we talked about.

We wanted to point you to the National Police Accountability Project.

This organization is quote one of the few national organizations that focus is solely on ending law enforcement overreach and abuse of power.

They provide support to their network of over five hundred civil rights attorneys that file thousands of lawsuits against police departments, jails, and prisons, holding officers account accountable for its conduct.

Beyond the courtroom, they help shape laws and work with communities to drive real change.

So to find out more about this organization or donate, you can go over to NLG dash NPAP dot org.

And I don't know what the NLG is for, but the NPAP is National Police Accountability Projects, So NLGH NPAP dot org.

We put that in our show notes as a link.

We put that in our stories as a link the day this episode comes out and then it gets saved forever in our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram page which is thats Messed Up pod go follow tell us what you tell us your thoughts.

We asked a lot of questions today that we need your feedback on, including more iconic than Leo on the doc and merch ideas and everything else.

Go and tell us for a lot, for sure, but also thank you for all the laser hair stuff.

I'm not gonna buy it.

Yeah, you know what I want to know now?

Can somebody tell me this?

If you listen to the end of this podcast, I'll be so happy and I'll know who you are.

I want to know if that nory iron where you don't have to use an ironing board, you just flatten iron your clothes.

Does that work?

Is that good?

Because that's they're hitting me up NonStop and I would love to not iron with an ironing board, but I don't know if that works.

So to me, it looks like I'm using my hair straightener to iron my clothes.

And I didn't know if that was like a thing I could actually do.

So let me know if you have that and you use it.

Okay, Also done someone with a mini iron recently, like a tiny little mini iron, oh for the hair.

No, like it looks like an iron, like an iron that your mom would use.

But ah, but okay, I love it.

Next week we'll be doing Closure Part one and two, so season one episode ten and season two episode three, So get at it.

We appreciate you, Thanks so much, forever, bye bye.

We love you guys.

That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Listen to That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.

And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.

Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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