0:00: Special edition episode of the Brisbane Property Podcast. 0:03: We are replaying an interview that I had on the REB podcast with Liam Garin. 0:08: We're going to be covering everything in relation to ethics, online courses, and loopholes that exist in the buyer's agent industry that put buyers at risk. 0:18: This is not an episode to be missed. 0:20: We hope you see value. 0:21: Welcome to the Brisbane Property Podcast with your hosts, Melinda and Scott Jennison. 0:26: Well, good day everyone. 0:26: Liam Garman here, managing editor of Real Estate here at Momentum Media, the team that brings you real estate business and the Smart Property Investment show. 0:34: And I am joined by a fan favorite of, of both the REB and the SBI podcasts. 0:39: , someone that needs absolutely no introduction. 0:42: But I'll introduce her anyway, Melinda Jennison, founder of Streamline Property Buyers and president of the Real Estate Buyers Agent Association of Australia. 0:50: Melinda, welcome back to the podcast. 0:53: Thank you very much, Liam. 0:54: What an introduction. 0:55: I didn't know there was a fan base out there, but, yeah, that's pleasing to hear. 0:59: Oh, well, there is a fan base, just before, just before we hit record on the, on the podcast. 1:05: We're having a bit of a chat, obviously, obviously it's very favorable buying conditions with off the back of two rate cuts at the moment. 1:12: Are you seeing a bit of an uptick? 1:14: Are you getting a lot of inquiries from potential people looking to engage, engaging streamline at the moment? 1:20: Yes, so we operate predominantly in the Brisbane property market, and inquiry for Brisbane properties is sky high. 1:28: There's been some recent research that has indicated that investors are really focusing on Southeast Queensland off the back of the Olympic infrastructure announcements, and obviously we've got political certainty now with the federal election now behind us and as you've rightly pointed out two rate cuts. 1:46: Already this year, and because of that, it's driving demand into the Southeast Queensland market as a whole, but our inquiry as, as a buyer's agency service within the Brisbane market is extremely high at the moment, and that's because there's a lot of buyers that are either struggling to get into the market or have interest in getting into the market in Brisbane, and they need some professional assistance to do so. 2:10: Are they typically investors or PPORs? 2:12: Both, I would say that through our inquiry we typically attract about 60% of inquiry from property investors and they can be nationwide but also from overseas markets. 2:24: A lot of buyers that are expats monitoring the Australian market wanting to get into the market, but we also have owner occupier buyers that we service and a lot of those are locals that. 2:35: Missing out or people that are relocating and wanting to get professional assistance buying their home. 2:41: OK, that's quite a, quite an interesting point that you, you have an uptick from people looking for owner occupiers that, and maybe I might be putting words in your mouth, do correct me if I'm wrong. 2:50: They, they might in other, in other market conditions, not have engaged a buyer's agent, but because the market is so hot at the moment, they're, they're looking at these other avenues. 3:00: , looking at those people looking for owner occupiers, what are they, what are they looking for? 3:06: Are they looking for anything unique? 3:08: What's the, the Brisbane, owner-occupier market looking like at the moment? 3:11: It's fairly widespread. 3:12: I think that affordability constraints are definitely evident across the market, in that there's fewer buyers above that $2 to $2.5 million price point across our city. 3:25: The buyers are still there, but there's just fewer of them. 3:28: So I would say the most competitive segment of the market is anything up to about $1.5 million especially for home buyers and for first home buyers, we have stamp duty concessions that that cut off at $700,000. 3:43: So anything priced at $700,000 or under right now in Brisbane, not only is there a lot of interest and inquiry on those sorts of properties, but we've got a very high volume of first home buyers competing for those properties as well. 3:57: And in fact, when we look at price segmentation, we know for a fact that in Brisbane in the last quarter it's the most affordable segment of the market, so the bottom 25% of property values that have grown at a faster rate than the middle 50% of property values or Top 25% of property values ranked by price. 4:17: So there's definitely more demand in that lower price point across Brisbane. 4:21: And I don't have anywhere near the depth of knowledge of the market as you do, but I can very visually see that even when I do my own desktop research of the Brisbane market, just how much that that bottom quartile is growing relative to the top quartile. 4:34: when, when you are engaging that, that owner occupier market, What exactly are they looking for? 4:40: What are their non-negotiables when they're, when they're looking for a home? 4:43: I, I want to get a little bit, maybe have a profile of the buyer. 4:46: Look, it depends on the buyer, to be honest. 4:49: we've got downsizers that, want to actually get into a home that's low maintenance, that has high levels of security, but they're in lifestyle locations. 4:59: We've also got families that, would be looking for. 5:02: Quality school catchments, accessibility to parkland, depending on the age of the children. 5:08: These are the sorts of motivations that drive that market segment. 5:11: And then as I've mentioned, we've also got first home buyers, and they're typically, more willing to compromise on the property type. 5:18: They're looking at units and or townhouses in inner city locations. 5:22: It appears to, to me that that younger generation really want to focus more. 5:26: Lifestyle, so they want to be in the areas where they can walk to the cafes, they can get their Sunday breakfast, they can get good coffee, and these are the things that matter more to them. 5:36: So they're looking at, compromising on the property type by looking at townhouses and units, which is quite an interesting insight, but I, I definitely, I definitely see that, that, that lifestyle, that lifestyle creeping in as a priority for a lot of buyers now. 5:50: , Melinda, one thing I would love to chat about today, it was a fantastic market oversight, but Brisbane. 5:56: One thing I would love to chat about today is, is, so you wanna be a BA. 5:59: And it seems, Melinda, that every time that I go on Instagram nowadays, I've got ads for courses, I've got people saying that, you know, you can, you can become a buyer's agent overnight, you can treat it as a side hustle, you can, make a bunch of money from it. 6:16: And, and Melinda, if I can be very frank with you, You know, I, I, I don't want to go to a part-time surgeon. 6:22: You know, that's, that's the way that I look at it. 6:23: And, you know, I, I engage BAs, and, and one thing that I like from my BAs is that it is their full-time job that they do have a lot of care, they have a lot of, they take a lot of minute detail in, in servicing their clients and looking after their clients, So I'd love to get a little bit of insight from your role as president of ReA about the journey to becoming a buyer's agent. 6:47: So I, I, I think to start us off, What are the certifications that people need to become buyer's agents? 6:54: Surely it's not just as simple as a, as a, as a, as a course that you buy online? 7:00: Absolutely not. 7:01: And this is one of the biggest challenges that we have as an industry right now. 7:06: And a big part of the challenge is educating the consumer who otherwise may not even realize that they're working with someone who may lack the expertise or the experience to be able to guide them appropriately. 7:18: Through the purchase process. 7:20: So if I can just explain what is required to become a buyer's agent, unfortunately, one of the biggest issues, with the licensing regime is that you must, complete modules, operated by registered training organizations that teach you how to become a sales agent or a property manager. 7:41: However, very few of the modules that you must complete to obtain a license teach you how to become a buyer. 7:47: agent. 7:48: So the first issue that we have is that our current licensing regime does not actually teach buyer's agents the requisite skills and the required levels of due diligence that are necessary to protect buyers and mitigate risk throughout that purchase process. 8:07: What I'll also say is that the licensing regime is state-based, and we are seeing many operators actually take shortcuts. 8:17: In some states you must work under a principal licensee for a minimum of 2 years before you can hold an independent license or a class 1 license. 8:27: What that means is that, you cannot actually operate your own buyer's agent business without that experience. 8:33: However, people are actually, getting around this requirement by being, or becoming licensed in other states, taking shortcuts, and then using the license from another state to obtain. 8:46: mutual recognition back in the state that they're purchasing property and representing buyers in. 8:51: Now, is that legal? 8:52: Yes, it's legal. 8:54: The biggest issue is that if you're obtaining a license in a state that you're not actually purchasing in, you are not learning the legislation that you must operate within for the state that you're operating in. 9:07: So you can see that there's a lot of concerns that we have for the industry, and it's a reason why Reba, the real estate. 9:15: Buyers Agents Association of Australia are really working with each of the real estate institutes to develop training materials to educate buyer's agents on what is required, and we've also recently endorsed a professional training program that is commercially available so that consumers have a way to actually cut through the noise and choose a provider that's going to provide the requisite skills that they actually need to generate. 9:44: , the required skill levels to represent buyers on their journey, and that's the buyer's, agent mentoring program, as the endorsed program that we have, yeah, gone through the process of vetting for consumers. 9:59: And, you know, you touched on, you know, a very age-old consideration, which is what is legal doesn't equal what is ethical. 10:07: So, sure, you can take those, you can take those shortcuts and, and you're, you're able to do it, but ethically, you, you shouldn't. 10:13: And, it's fantastic that you've, that you've developed these training materials, and, and, and come up with an endorsed training manual. 10:21: For people that are listening to this that want to learn more about that, where can they find it? 10:26: Who are the RTOs, or how can they find out more information about that? 10:29: So, on the website, you can obtain further information about becoming a buyer's agent and the pathways, required to, become licensed. 10:39: And there we've got links to the program that we've endorsed. 10:42: being the buyer's agent mentoring program and also current training modules that are offered by some of the real estate institutes across some states in Australia. 10:53: It's something that Riva's working very hard to roll out across all states, but at the moment, it's only being provided in select locations. 11:02: , surely, off the back of this, you know, you would have heard some absolute horror stories from people that might have been serviced from From, from buyers agents who, who didn't do the correct training or or or their heart might not be in it, or they're not treating it as as the, as the profession should be treated, they are treating it as as a bit of a side hustle. 11:23: You know, as an aside, you know, I've I've heard some absolute horror stories from from. 11:26: My role here at REB and SPI, which is, you know, people saying, BAs will kind of just take videos from the agent and pass it on and not do any due diligence. 11:36: And also the lack of understanding that as a BA you're there to represent the buyer, but they just kind of wanna move people along, get the sale, close the sale, move on, and not really appreciating, even from a business perspective, right? 11:49: That, Actually, you know, the better you treat your clients, the more you service them, the better outcomes you get for them, it's actually better for your business, but not necessarily having that as a mantra and and not treating their clients with the due respect that they deserve. 12:01: I'm going to guess you would have heard some absolute horror stories, Millinda. 12:04: Look, unfortunately, Liam, we have, I think a lot of consumers mistake our association as being the governing body for the buyer's agent industry. 12:13: Unfortunately we're not the governing body. 12:15: We're an association that exists to ensure consumers have a way to select a buyer's agent who we know abides by a professional code of conduct, operates in an ethical way, and meets a minimum service standard. 12:29: So because consumers have a misconception thinking we're the governing body, we do receive complaints, not about our members but about other buyers' agents operating within the industry. 12:40: Now we have heard all sorts of complaints. 12:43: If I can give you an example of one client that's reached out to our association to report a buyer's agent who they'd had a horrific experience with. 12:52: They'd put their trust in this particular buyer's agent to purchase them an investment property that was in a regional location. 12:59: They went through and purchased that investment property, and it was only upon settlement that their problems started to unravel. 13:07: What happened is that the property manager that they had engaged confirmed with them that the property was not habitable. 13:14: It was unable to be rented in its current condition. 13:18: Because of that fact, they went back to their buyer's agent and started to ask questions. 13:23: When did you inspect the property? 13:25: Why has this been recommended to us if it's not able to be rented, and they were provided with a quote of in excess of $14,000 to rectify the issues on that property before it became habitable. 13:37: Now of course that is a significant issue for those particular buyers because not only have they paid for the services of a buyer's agent, but they now realize that that buyer's agent had never been to the property. 13:50: had only made a recommendation of the photos that they'd seen online and or the agent's advice. 13:56: So, this, this is happening every single day. 13:59: This is not a one-off scenario, but unfortunately, what we see happening is that a lot of these buyers are then silenced through, legal deeds of settlement. 14:10: They're unable to talk about their experience because the buyer's agents that are involved actually shut it down through. 14:16: Legal settlements they pay for the silence effectively, which is just horrific to know that this is happening within our industry and so it's our job as representatives that are doing the right thing and my job as the president of the Real Estate Buyers Agents Association of Australia to warn consumers that this is happening and one way that they can prevent this from happening is to align with people that we know. 14:41: are ethical that are doing the role of a buyer's agent at the highest possible level and and then therefore there's going to be less risk to the consumer, and this is all about protecting the consumers. 14:53: So, my knowledge of the of the legal side isn't isn't very strong. 14:57: So a deed of settlement would be literally a settlement that the BA would then give them some, some money back, but you'd get like a non-disclosure out out of it. 15:07: I believe that the, yeah, they're paid, so the buyer's agent would pay the client or refund the fee that they otherwise paid in exchange for, yeah, them not talking, they're not talking about their experience from them not going to the media about their experience. 15:23: So they're unable to Share that experience with others to warn others that this does happen in the industry. 15:28: Well, I'll do a shout out if anyone, if anyone needs a, a journalist or if anyone needs the hand of, of real estate business, I'll look into it, you know, we're, we're just an email awayliam.gov and at momentummedia.com.au. 15:40: But Melinda, this, it raises a few questions because, we, we don't know the extent of it, to your point, which is, if, if you do have a non-disclosure as a result of a deed of settlement, you don't really know how far and how wide this goes. 15:54: Putting yourself into the client's shoes, if you're someone who's interested in, in engaging a buyer's agent, it could be for any of the reasons that we stated before, it could be, you're looking for a, you're looking for a good investment in, in a city that you might not know, or even, even on the, on the PPOR front. 16:11: Hey, the stock is just going in a matter of hours. 16:13: I can't even get there on time. 16:15: I work such a demanding job, I wouldn't even have the time of day to inspect. 16:19: , for either of them, if you're looking to engage a BA, what, what should you look for? 16:24: What, what are, what are some ticks of approval that you could say as a client, I hand on heart trust this BA to work in my best interest? 16:32: I think it's important that you, not only look at their online presence, but actively engage with them and ask them some questions to understand the extent of their knowledge about the local area. 16:45: I'm a huge advocate for local area specialists. 16:48: not only are you going to get the knowledge and intel that, data can provide you, but you can overlay that with local area knowledge, and I feel that that gives you a much higher Level of expertise outside of anything that fly in, fly out, or borderless buyer's agents can provide. 17:06: I think it's important that consumers ask their buyer's agent, whether they're adequately licensed in the locations that they're buying, and you have a right to actually ask your buyer's agent to provide evidence of their license class. 17:19: if you're actually working with a buyer's agent in one state, you have a right to ask them, has the license that you're operating. 17:27: been obtained in this state or have you obtained it elsewhere and obtained mutual recognition that's going to give you a depth of knowledge in terms of how experienced they are and have they followed the procedure that is best practice or cut some corners if you like. 17:41: Again, I've mentioned previously, it is legal, however, it does break down that that ability to learn the correct legislation for the state that you're purchasing within. 17:54: And I'd also ask, are they members of, the Real Estate Buyers Agents Association of Australia. 17:58: We provide a level of due diligence for consumers so that they don't have to do the groundwork. 18:04: Every one of our members meets minimum standards, has adequate, professional indemnity insurance in place, which is ultimately a protection for the consumer. 18:15: Every one of our members is adequately licensed in the states that they're purchasing in because this is part of our membership application process, and we know. 18:22: Our members are very thorough in the due diligence process that they take a client through to mitigate risk on behalf of the buyer, and the reason we know that is because it is part of our membership application process. 18:36: And we do have some objection from some buyer's agents in the industry that want to join our association and they say, well, look, the application process is quite cumbersome. 18:46: There is a reason that that is the case because we do have a minimum. 18:52: Standard that we will accept and every single month we do have buyer's agents applying to our association whose membership applications are declined because for whatever reason they don't meet the standards that we require for membership. 19:06: And that is a big concern in itself because the volume of members that we accept versus the volume of members that we, that don't actually meet our membership requirements is quite often quite alarming. 19:19: But it is good that we we want. 19:20: Or standards and for people to complain about the standards is is quite ironic because what you're actually doing is you're, you're improving the industry. 19:28: Yeah, you're raising the standards. 19:31: and I I think if I, if I can just say, Liam, one extra thing about that is I think that there's been a lot of buyer's agents that have received, information that's misrepresented about our association, again, and they have been told potentially, by others who may have a commercial interest. 19:49: In providing training within the industry, that being a member of RIBA adds no value, however, I think that there's many buyer's agents that within ReBA understand the value that we do add, obviously credibility in the market, we provide the, one of the, well, I believe it's the only buyer's agent specific conference, annual conference for members. 20:14: real estate agents get some amazing opportunities to upskill at that. 20:18: Conferences like AI, buyer's agents go to conferences like that, and there's, there's no speakers that talk to the buyer's agent profession, whereas we have a two-day conference specifically aimed at buyer's agents for members, and this is a huge value add, as well as member webinars and other opportunities for members to engage and learn from each other through our members' forums. 20:39: So I think there's some misleading information in the industry as a whole and people potentially have been brainwashed to believe that. 20:47: That Reba adds no value, but in actual fact, once people are members, they really understand what value we do add. 20:53: And it's good to say hand on heart that with all those checks and with all the balances, the indemnity insurance, for example, that you actually are putting your clients first, and I'm actually, as we're, as we're on this podcast now, I'm scrolling through your website and, and, and reading about that. 21:06: It's, it is fantastic to see all the work that goes into that. 21:10: and now I, I know this might be a bit of a, a bit of a off the cuff question, but,, one thing that just popped into my head looking at this was, you know, buyer's agents are there to represent the best interests of the buyer. 21:25: How, how does ReBA work with say buyer agents that that also work with, say, off the plan land packages where you might be getting a commission from both ends? 21:38: Such a good question. 21:39: Unfortunately, buyers agents that do take secret commissions from developers and builders in the way that you've described won't qualify for membership with River because that's actually against our code seems quite reasonable, right? 21:52: It's like whose team are you on our members are exclusive buyer agents, they're not involved in any form of direct selling and they're not receiving. 22:02: Any hidden commissions from developers or builders to recommend brand new properties, and I think that's another point of difference again that consumers may not be aware of. 22:13: We are there purely to advocate for the buyer and represent the buyer's interests as our primary priority with with some of those those training training associations that you said with before. 22:26: There surely there is to be licensed, some ethical code of conduct which says that buyer's agents have to put the best interests of the buyer first. 22:36: and, and, and forgive me because I'm not, I've not done buyer's agent training, but would that not be against some licensing code of conduct if you're kind of, if you're, if you're receiving commission from both the seller end and the buyer end? 22:48: Technically, it is illegal to receive a commission. 22:51: From both buyer and seller, that's certainly the case under the Property Occupations Act here in Queensland, and I believe it is the legislation in most other states around Australia. 23:02: The problem is that some people are very happy to operate outside of the law, and you know, I say that with a word of caution. 23:12: Some people may not know that they're actually operating outside of the law. 23:16: , by doing this either. 23:18: So it comes down to understanding legislation, and when people are getting licensed in states, that are not the states they're operating in, they may not even be aware of the legislation that actually applies because they haven't learned it. 23:30: And this is one of the big problems with our industry. 23:33: it's definitely, there's some people that will call themselves buyer's agents and not charge a buyer, but they'll be taking those hidden commissions from A developer or a builder, I think that's a different proposition. 23:46: Again, those people are not ReBA members. 23:48: Riba members are engaged buyer buyer to represent the buyer, but don't take any additional hidden commissions from developers to recommend brand new products. 23:57: Yeah, and like I I I appreciate, I appreciate everything you said. 24:01: I, I think I maybe, maybe because of your position you have to be a little bit more diplomatic, you know, I, I. 24:07: I won't be diplomatic because I, I don't buy it that you can't be aware of the legislation. 24:10: It's, it's purely logical that, you know, you, you would have done a course or two, you would understand that someone is paying you their hard earned to buy a property and represent them. 24:21: , I, I don't buy it that you're just unaware of, of the legislation because it actually is, it's just so illogical that you could potentially take, take money from, from both sides and, and potentially think it's OK. 24:33: But anyway, I'll leave it there because I can feel my heart rate going up out of annoyance. 24:38: I think also, you know, there's there's definitely people in business that are prepared to operate knowingly outside of the law. 24:46: We see that in the buyer's agent industry all the time, as a local buyer's agent here in Brisbane, we receive phone calls from other buyers' agents who are calling, an off the plan list and what I mean by that is that we've been through a property along with a number of other buyers and that selling agent. 25:04: Sells that list to a buyer's agent. 25:07: The buyer's agent then calls off that list to generate business. 25:11: Now, there's potentially, financial reward or incentive for the selling agent to pass on that list, but, both selling agent and buyer's agent in that situation, are in breach of the Privacy Act. 25:24: when you are handing over your information when you're checking into a property, that is your private information, so I'm going to put a call out to any listeners. 25:34: If you're getting a call from a buyer's agent after being through a selling agent's property, ask the question, how did you get my, private details because I've not given you consent to contact me because this is again happening within our industry. 25:49: And unfortunately, those that are prepared to engage in this, unscrupulous act. 25:56: are impacting or diluting the impact that the rest of us that operate in an ethical way with high standards, they dilute the impact that we're able to have within the industry, and it's a real concern that we have. 26:07: Yeah, and I feel far safer, Melinda, knowing that, knowing that you're calling this out and that you're being such a, such a massive advocate for, for ethics in the industry because there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there, so thank you for all the work that you're doing. 26:21: Now, we can't just be negative, but that's my fault cos I've been asking all the questions. 26:24: I can't just ask the, the hard challenging questions. 26:27: you know, for, for people that do want to become BA's and, and they, they might have, seen the Instagram ads or, or looked online and thought, hey, this is a career that I really want, and, and credit to them, they're listening to podcasts like this and they're trying to upskill themselves and, and learn from people, Melinda, like yourself in the know. 26:46: What are some of your top tips and tricks for people that are serious about this journey and want to become industry leading buyers agents? 26:54: It's such a great question because it's something that we quite often get asked. 26:58: And I would say, when you are learning, don't assume you know everything because there's so much that you don't even know that you don't know. 27:06: And therefore, seeking out the assistance of a mentor and or, participating in programs that are going. 27:16: To provide you with the real skills that you need. 27:18: And as I've pointed out a couple of times, there's not a lot of credible programs out there that are going to give you the skills to, become skilled very quickly, but the buyer's agent mentoring program is one. 27:32: Details of that are available on the RBA website. 27:35: It is the only program that is RIBA endorsed that's available on the commercial market right now. 27:41: It consists of 12 modules helping people understand what they need to cover. 27:45: To protect themselves as a buyer's agent from risk, but also to protect the client that they're representing. 27:52: There's also the buyer's agent Essential program, which is actually a two day event that I run in conjunction with a fellow colleague of mine here in Queensland, and this is delivered through the Real Estate Institute of Queensland. 28:06: Again, it's teaching people the skills that are required to operate within the legislative framework that exists within our state. 28:15: and this Is critical. 28:16: So seek out credible, courses that are going to teach you the skills you need to know, not just the skills to create, a lead pipeline, because once you actually have clients, you must understand how to service them in a way that mitigates risk for them, but also prevents future liability for yourself. 28:36: And at this stage, there's very limited options available. 28:39: Once you've been operating for at least 12 months, we would encourage all buyers agents to reach out, Join Rebar, not only will you have access to some of the, more experienced buyers agents that have been operating within the industry for 15+ years that you can learn on and leverage your skill set from, but you'll also get access to member webinars, our annual conference, and the credibility that being aEBA member provides. 29:06: When you're talking to buyers potential clients that you're on boarding, oh for sure, and doing things like, you know, meeting those those stringent checks and balances that you have in place at Reba, the indemnity insurance, all of that is is for the benefit of your clients and in the long-term, look, I'm not a BA, but in the long term if you have Melinda, if you have more happy clients, more clients that are looked after, in the long run, it's probably good for business as well. 29:32: Absolutely. 29:33: I mean, every single client that you work with becomes your brand ambassador. 29:37: So if you have given a client a poor experience, I can guarantee you they're going to tell more people about that poor experience. 29:45: if you've given them a good experience, they're going to become your advocates and they're going to refer business to you. 29:50: And I certainly would want to be a buyer's agent that has, a large cohort of. 29:56: Fans that are referring business into me for future years to come, as opposed to the former, where my name within the industry is being impacted because of the experience that I'm providing. 30:08: So it's one client at a time, one transaction at a time, really advocating for what's best for the buyer, and that's how to build a brand and to build a business that's reputable in the current market. 30:19: Absolutely. 30:20: Now, Melinda, I know when we were talking via email before this podcast that your phone has been Ringing off the hook, and there's a lot of, a lot of demand for, for Streamline at the moment. 30:31: So I'd better let you go. 30:32: Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. 30:34: Thank you so much for having me once again, Liam. 30:36: It's been a pleasure. 30:37: No, thank you. 30:38: And that was Melinda Jennison, founder of Streamline Property Buyers and president of the Real Estate Buyers Agents Association of Australia, and these all we have time for today, and we'll be back at the same time next week with another episode. 30:50: But until then, bye bye.