He is drinks Chants, motherfucking podcast man.

He's a legends every queens rapper.

He ain't say greed as your boy in O r E.

He's a Miami hip hop pioneer put up as d J e f N.

Together they drink it up with some of the biggest players, you know.

What I mean.

And the most professional unprofessional podcast and your number one source for drunk drin chans days New Year c that's it's time for drink Champs.

Drink up mother?

Would it good?

Be hoping?

Held?

It should be this your.

Boy n A O N A A what ups d J e f N And it's crazy Ward Yeah, drink Champs mother.

Now, when we started this podcast, we said that we wanted to give flowers to the legends who wanted to give people that that that paved the way for us, people who have cemented their name in concrete.

This brother right here has had a hit after hit he has he has when you see leading the culture and people changing the culture and.

People shifting the culture, this is the person.

He's a fashion icon, a hit maker, a producer from the best burrow in the world that's right in the world.

In the.

He's he's a legend, beyond a legend.

We're gonna give him his flowers.

We're gonna let him know that the music business is a better place when he's involved.

In case you don't know what we're talking about, we talking about the one to know.

So you said the best Burrow, the best.

That's not you know what I'm saying.

I'm watching you, right, and.

Uh I'm hearing you speak speak about your youth, right yeah, and the people that you grew around with, right because.

You from ninety six street, what street in ninety seventh, ninety seventh between twenty third, twenty fourth and twenty fifth Avenue Anders Queens, you.

Know where street are from?

With ninety seventh Street, get out here, I'm from let's right.

Yeah, So listen this is I know you hate when we talked, Queen, but listen listen.

Technically, if I woke up and he woke up from ninety seven Street and we kind of yeah, straight, we would meet because when I was, I was I'm looking up like that, this guy's from ninety seventh Street.

But so let's describe that, right, and.

I would literally walk from my house till that frack walk to Queen SENTAMOI.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

So let's describe that, right because I'm I'm and this is for people that's not privileged, who didn't get the catt to do the research and everything and and know.

So who was the people that you grew up with in Queen So if you if you take my block ninety seventh Street, right, So this is I'm just gonna be on some hip hop stuff for now.

I go a little bit of history in a minute.

But on ninety seventh Street, if you go further up my block, right, you have no you got one block over, you have Eric b two blocks over, three blocks over.

You have kids from Kid in Play on my block, one block up, the producer the hit maker Ron Amen, Rob Lawrence who did like hit Matta.

Yeah yeah, hit Man Ron is on my block.

You go about four blocks down, you have Herbie love Bug.

You have a couple of blocks over, you have play from Kid in Play.

You go a little bit across Northern Boulevard.

You got cool g rap you got less from the beat Nuts is over there.

Yeah, go further you you know what I'm saying.

So that neighborhood, if you want to take the neighborhoods is East Elmhurst Corona DJ Polo Kuji apping Polo.

You take East Emmer's Corona.

You have your area left fact, you have flushing and flush, you got large pro, you got dress you know, royal flush, Mike Geronimo.

So all of us are within a if you're driving, all of us are within a five minute Yeah, that's crazy.

Five minute radios.

Fifteen the most fifteen the most yeah, yeah, most, and that's because you're driving slow or something.

Like let me no, no, no, now, I'm sorry.

But this is how I break down queens.

Right.

I used to always say the buses and the trains, Yes, right.

The buses is like the south side, right, yep, yep, that's that's that's lost boys, that's fifty SID, that's JAU run DMC.

That's how you get there, you l that's how you get there.

You have to get there do.

Buses or you have to take a train from yeah, from Parsons Boulevard right.

Then that's that's where it starts, right, And then it's the trains.

The trains is even though Parsons Boulevard is technically Jamaica, but that's where it starts.

Where the dollar vans and the buses come.

But then you have us.

I believe we are called the West side of Queens, right, Yeah, Melhurst, Astoria, ravers Wood, queens Bridge and then so that's that's the way.

Queens and Queens is fucking a big ass borough.

Bro Like Queen.

I think Queens the south of Miami, bro.

Know how about this?

I was arguing with my friend from Philly and I was like, you know, if Queens is bigger than all of Philadelphia, like a right where that were going on Google?

I'm like, I'm telling you Brooklyn.

You put Brooklyn and Queens, which is pretty much together, it's on Long Island.

You put them two together.

That's bigger than most major cities the whole country.

Wow, it's bigger than most major cities.

So it's like it's like six million people in Brooklyn and Queens alone.

Wow, come on, I love my borough.

So one of the craziest things that you know, me doing your research is with Malcolm X house burnt Down, which is on my block, which is on your block?

Your family came to his A.

Yeah, my grandfather.

My grandfather was a publisher.

He had a black owned newspaper called the published and he helped Malcolm publishes things.

So when the firebomb happened, my grandfather's on ninety fourth, he's on ninety seven, So you think about it, this bomb happens and you as you, your wife and your little kids.

So it was like the only person he knew that was in the immediate vicinity is my grandparents, Malcolm, only person you.

So you just go around the corner and you know, just give the kids somewhere to sit and until they figure.

It all out.

And it's funny.

It's like I didn't really know that story till my mom told me, and it I said it recently, and I'm like, yo, I didn't even I never even knew that.

And that's is depicted in the movie.

Yes, and in the book too, and in the book because you know, prior to the movie, I read the book, and I believe in the book there was a picture and it said East Elmhurst yep, And I knew this.

I knew that story has something to do with me, but I didn't know it was coming.

Yeah, No, it was only his house is ninety seventh between.

Twenty third and twenty fourth Avenue, and I'm in between twenty fourth and twenty fifth.

So yeah, it's it's right.

And damn man, that's a beautiful story.

Man, that's crazy up your family.

Yeah, so so bouncing around like we're gonna move around.

Right, Okay, I'm very curious to know, because you're a producer too.

But one thing about you, you are very You're a real lyricists, right, you're.

Real trying to be sometimes, So let me ask.

You without without critiquing these these these these new this new generation of MC's a lot of these new generational mcs are not lyrical, right, it's.

All about us somewhat the melody and being catchy.

Yeah right, Yeah.

Has it ever been a time where you winning and as a producer?

Who these kids don't know?

They just they just they're thinking kay k w one millions King Williams like they thinking that and they are not knowing that you made hit records for yourself, Oh yeah, and produce hit records.

Has it?

Has it?

Have you ever been like geration?

Yeah?

Like say for example, it not even it could have been like a new generation rapper.

It could be a new generation singer or even just like a generation like say before this one, Like for example, I'm working on a Christina Aguilero record and it's just like some pop you know, strings and all this other stuff.

And she was like, I heard your rap.

I was like, yeah, you know, I did a little something.

Did you ever make a song?

You know, you know the things.

But like even with a younger generation, it'll be like the session of start out cool and we're working and they'll come in like the next day you my mom said, or the show up and the kid is looking like, I don't know nothing about this, but so it's it's cool.

That's what I love about producing because it gives me.

It takes away that age barrier between somebody new and somebody season, and it's always been a respecting Once they find out, it's like what could you tell me that I don't know already?

And it could be somebody you know that's doing it.

It doesn't matter.

It's just like, what have you seen that I haven't seen yet?

And then I'd be able to impart some knowledge on them and and you know, it's cool, or they'll be like, you know, like you said, how people are more into the lyrics and more into the stuff from back in the days, and they you know, they'll they'll have that thought of, well, we don't need to do all that no more.

You know what I'm saying.

This is about swag.

It's about us just being swaggy and about to be No, no, it's not about the beat.

It's like it was like more like y'all have to work harder than we do.

We don't have to work as hard as y'all.

It's true.

Yeah, yeah, it's true to a certain just like you have to see it.

It's like the old people that be like I used to walk ten miles.

He's like, you know, just fuck up to yet to do that.

We don't got to do that anymore, you know.

So it's just just a give and take, you know what I'm saying.

So let me ask you, right, you know, you know my partner right here, it comes from the era of vinyl, right, and we.

Come from the era of vinyl.

I'm sorry, I was trying to make I was trying to make a point like what I mean, like with you particular like DJ, I'm sorry, so so, and then obviously you know, going to a party of the rock right now, vinue is probably not the thing you unless you.

Go to those sexy parties with forty five's only and.

Yeah know what I'm saying, Yeah, so how have you been able to adjust from you know, the equipment from back then and now like this program is like.

Forty loops you don't even need a equipment.

You can just do it on your computer.

Well, well that's a that's a two part answer.

Okay.

So like, for example, my DJ Big shouts to DJ tap Money from Philly.

He is strictly technique twelve hundred's vinyl only.

And what we've been finding as time is going on and we've been doing shows and you rent these equipment.

The promoters like, we're not ranting, oh shit, we not you know what I'm saying.

They into like if it ain't like the rain, you know, or the surround you know, anything anything kind of controller, And my DJ is just not with it.

He's just not with it.

And so sometimes it's a battle with that.

And for me, I'm always forward thinking.

I'm like, yo, dude, why you want to carry them big ass hard ten pound turntables because he'll bring his own if they don't have it.

He's carrying on the flight cases and he's going on his own, and I'm like, yo, you just keep the old but learned.

A new at least so you could be adaptable, don't.

I feel like every DJ should know how to adapt.

Like, if you're in a situation and you got your shit, somebody put something in front of you, you're either gonna sink or sweat.

What are you gonna do?

You're just gonna stand there.

But I don't know how to control this, or you're gonna know how to adapt and work.

So I think there's a thin line you gotta stick.

I think you should stick to the things you know, and you should always know.

Like the equipment.

I use a bunch of new stuff, but my drums always come from a co SP two thousand XLP, NPC two thousand XL.

I'm saying SP.

I'm thinking of SP twelve, but the NPC two thousand, it's that smoke.

He got that smoke.

I'm not even thinking diamonds both.

Okay, yeah, yeah, we're talking about that.

So so you got I still use my my MPC and that that machine is like twenty five years old.

But I know I'm a master at that, and I know how to make stuff that don't sound like twenty five years ago.

It can sound like now, it can sound like damn whatever, And I know how to use that equipment, but I also know how to incorporate all the other things.

And you gotta be open minded to incorporate because the time is gonna keep moving, man, y'all can't.

You can't just be stuck in when you was popping and keep it at that.

You got to be able to at least adjust in some way shape.

Or for me, let me let me remind you though, unlike your DJ, when we did the tour in Canada and we did the show in uh in Russia, I did have a controller.

I didn't take turntables.

Oh, I had a tractor controller.

I don't know, how do you feel about it?

I didn't like it?

What is that?

I like the convenience of taking it around, but I wasn't like I wasn't really I'm just too analog with it.

Yeah, no, no, I understand.

But what is that?

It's just a controller.

You don't need to take the two turntables, the mixer.

It's that one vinyl I'm not using, you know, the controlling vinyl.

So it's just the one thing.

But what do you normally use on your rider?

What would you want not be a mixer in two techniques, okay, see, and it's note saying.

I think especially when you scratch it.

I wouldn't want to scratch on anything else but techniques of course.

But for me, I think, like I've seen, I've seen so much in so long I've seen I've went from when I first started doing shows, we would have instrumentals, we would have our SETU would be two techniques, a tape deck, you know, say it and if we did, because if we have the instrumental, I have it on tape.

You wasn't able to get vinyl.

So you're pushing a tape deck, you're doing an instrumental.

And then that went to the to the D like anybody remember, Yeah, you're playing your DAT tapes.

And then and then from the DAD tapes that went to the and this is when your records was coming out.

That what's that control thing that instantly you started using Instagram.

I thought that was the best thing in the world.

I did.

Yeah, I was like, yeah, but you still had your turntables and and and now I'm I've literally seen cats get on stage with an iPhone what the thing?

And it just yes, yeah, pressing play.

I've seen major artists get on stage and have a stand with their computer.

Right, this is my next song?

Ye, all right, this is what you're doing.

I hate it.

So it's like, you know, you gotta.

I believe, especially whatever the kind of music that you're doing, whether it's hip hop or anything, the elements that you made the records in should be on stage with you.

So if it's turntables, if it's a sample, or if it's whatever, I think you should have those elements on stage and just mix it up past, present, future and keep it keep your rocket.

Right now, you said that you believe that artists should never have a publishing them.

No, can you explain that to people who explain that to a kid?

There is right now and Basle projects, Yeah you know, yeah, he's on section eight.

He has he has an opportunity.

He has let's just say for seven n lucky numbers.

So he has seven hundred grand looking at him in his face.

Get seven hundred grand, can change his family, give him out the projects.

But then he hears somebody like Quame said who's well experienced, and says, I don't believe sir, you should you should take that deal.

Let me ask you a question, how long as he's been in the project with his family, his whole life, his whole life.

Right, So check this out.

You get a publishing, they're gonna give you seven hundred thousand.

They're giving you seven hundred thousand because they think they know you probably can make one point four million, so they give you seven hundred thousand.

You hype for the seven hundred thousand.

You take it, but the records that they know you got coming is going to make that one point four million within nine months.

You've been in that situation for your whole life.

You can't wait nine months, now?

Can you wait?

Nine months?

If you can, if you really think about it, right, unless somebody on you on the A floor and somebody on the seventh floor Center missiles down to you and try to But guess what, you can still move your people out temporarily.

You could get an apartment.

You could do whatever you want to do, because you're getting you're getting your commission for being a producer, or you're getting your album advanced, or you're getting whatever you're getting, so you still have some kind of bread.

The problem is an artist.

Sometimes new artists think that whatever bread that they're getting up front, they're going to always get I have a bread that they're being offered.

They're always going to be offering.

It's going to be more.

And that's great thinking.

It's very positive thinking issue.

You should think that way, but you should also feel and understanding.

There's a reality that there's a one percent of artists.

We know who the one percent are.

Those people continue to thrive the other ninety nine percent of all artists.

Maybe good for one album.

Maybe nowadays it's a single and ain't even an album.

And I'm sorry to cut you over.

You remember your thought.

I heard camera on say on his show, He's like, yo, at least we used to have two months.

Yeah, he said, y, you got a week and a half.

Yeah, I have a hot album now.

Yeah, And that was like sometimes it was like maybe two weeks, maybe two weeks, but it's really a week.

And I'm starting to look and I'm like, I think he's bugging, and I'm looking at it.

I'm like, this is he's actually telling the true.

It's actually rare.

So so you take this seven hundred grand right now.

You can take the money and you can run.

You can take the seven hundred grand, you can invest it, you can you're seven hundred gud.

You could take that seven hundred You can invest it.

You should invest it.

Do not buy the bends, don't get the chain, don't get invested in something something that will turn your seven hundred grand over.

And it's very hard because you're sitting up in basley.

Nobody's there to teach you who to invest it.

And that's the problem with this industry.

No og ever comes back and shows the young kid, yo, don't do that, no matter what, because money is real shiny, man, It's real shiny when it's up front.

So my suggestion is, fine, if you get a publishing deal, get something called an admin deal, administration deal, take ten percent of your money, they find it, they collect it.

That's seven hundred grand.

You're gonna make it anyway.

In nine months or one point two or two point five or seven point eight, whatever it is, you're gonna make it if you have that hit.

Now here goes the crazy gamble.

And this is all a gamble.

Good.

What if you didn't take the seven.

Hundred grand and you flopped, You're gonna stay in basey.

You know, you're still in Wow, You're still in bathes.

The gamble, that's the super gamble.

What is the loss again, because I don't think we explained what are they losing when they do?

So when you when you take the seven hundred grand, the publishing company now owns whatever the percentage.

You agreed with.

Let's say it's fifty percent.

They don't go lower than fifty.

So now they own you fifty percent, almost for life.

Yeah, because from there apartment, because you're from there.

When the movie companies call for that record, it's up to the publishing company, and they negotiate whatever they want.

Yeah, you're not involved.

They give you perfect example.

Usually I get to negotiate my thing, but just this year alone, and I'm not nothing against the artists.

She probably don't even know, but Kilanie sampled my record only you.

I had no idea.

Somebody called me and was like, yo, you heard that new Kilanie album?

Like what do you mean?

Track number five?

Like what the hell?

And I listened to it.

It's I hear my voice, I hear my record.

I'm like, and she's singing the record is dope.

It's called eight, and I'm like, yo, all right, it's about eating ass or whatever, but it's still.

Side right.

Yeah, I'm like, all right, just what we doing.

So I don't know if I would have approved a record like that on top of my beat, but hey, it is what it is, and yeah, man, it is what it is.

Yeah, so the record is the record is what it is.

But I'm like, I didn't know about it.

I didn't approve it, but not realizing that my publishing deal from two thousand and three or whatever, okay, as opposed to another thing where there was a there was a chance I don't remember the name of the production, but there was a production where because I score films, so I'm scoring.

This score Fantastic four too, Yeah, yeah, I was.

I worked on Fantastic I didn't score the whole thing, but I worked on it.

But just say, let's use Fantastic four.

That's a good thing, is making motion.

Sorry, man, I'm great.

I want to And this is the actual record.

I wanted to use the.

Record I did for Lloyd Banks on Fire, the record in the in the film, and it almost didn't.

Happen because, you know, because I was like, yeah, let's put this here, human TARGI gets on fire, Boom on fire, opinion.

So that's how it went in the movie.

But what people don't know when when they submitted it, the universal was like, we want X amount of dollars or it can't happen, even though I already said yes, but the publishing company.

Was like, nah, you know, await from Lloyd Banks publishing company.

No from Because I had publishing in the song, my publishing company had to agree, you know, and they didn't.

I said yeah, but the publishing company I was assigned to did not say, and that almost blocked a bag because they had this publishing fee.

And so it's like, at what point do you want to be free to roam with your music?

At what point do you want to be you want to be able to make the decisions that you feel are right for your music, you know.

And there's times that I had to make a decision and make you know.

They always say sometimes act and then apologize later.

Don't ask for permission first, you know.

So it's like sometimes you got to make those weird moves like that just to be able to keep your ship going right.

You know.

Well, listen, new artists, it's up to you.

Like you said, it's a gamble.

It's a gamble.

Do you how much do you want to gamble on yourself?

How much do you believe in yourself?

How much do you believe in your future?

Do you think seven hundred if you think somebody's offering you seven hundred grand off the rip, That's the thing I'm trying to tetbody.

You're never going to give them the best price.

You're never doing it.

And even if you keep negotiating whatever price they land that they still you're never gonna out.

Everybody thinks they outsmarted some evil conglomerate out there that's been slinging records since nineteen fifty eight.

They may change the name of the company, but it's the same thing.

Because you know why I.

Know, is most of us right, all of our first deals have always been the horriblest Dealah, And a lot of us, like I believe, from even ours to Jay to everyone did they would always say that their first deal was bad, right, so but a lot of them made it afterwards.

So a lot of people think like that.

They say, you know what you think, Yeah, for seven hundred grand, I'll be seven hundred grand, Richard, and did I'll make it better.

Some people make it better, and then some people stay trapped in that rabbit hole.

See, there's never stories about the people that's trapped in the rabbit.

Hole stories about the people who actually made it, the ones that everybody sees.

Yeah, you know, luckily for me, like I was saying, luckily for me, the money that I took was a good amount of money, right.

And then I did a Will Smith record Switch, Yeah, Switch.

I did the record Switch And at that time Will was doing great in films.

He was his films were rocket but he had no records out at that point.

And so when I did the record, first of all, the deal structure he had, they didn't even give me my whole fee for the record.

I did a deal like I'll do it for half.

The publisher company didn't want you to do it, right, They.

Were like, I just did my publishing deal and they were like, yo, do you think you want to reconsider the Will Smith record.

I'm like, well would I want to do that?

Like this is an international superstar.

Why would I want to reconsider this record?

Like, well, you know, we don't think the record could do well.

We don't know if he's good in the market.

You know, this is all you know, everything is about like fifty cent at the time, Jay at the time.

So they're like, I don't know about it a Will Smith record.

I'm like, well, that's scene.

I said, well, we want to renegotiate your deal, right, which means either you're gonna owe us more money or give us some money back.

I'm like, yo, I want to give y'all money back.

You already got me.

For money, and now I'm giving your money back.

I said, let's see what happens.

So when the record came out, the record was number one in like twenty countries and are super recoop And then I'm like, yo, was that the real play was real play?

To get me to not take it so that I didn't have to recoup or you know what I'm saying, So say that slower for the people that shot the play.

What if the play was describe it?

So he gets a publishing deal.

Yeah, I get a publishing dea.

I get X amount of dollars I do.

The first record I do under the publishing deal is the Will Smith record.

I am told that maybe I should reconsider.

Doing this record because it might not do well and it may look bad on your and your pucer.

And Will is not really hot.

He's just Willi's hot is a filmmaker.

But he's not.

He has no records in the marketplace at the time.

So so.

So you try to get me to reconsider it or renegotiate.

My deal that I just did a month ago for less money and give back the balance or have to owe a lot more.

You understand what I'm saying, and I'm like, no, chill.

So by the time the record comes out, I make all the money they gave me.

What does not your mean exactly what you say.

I'm just on ice and say, yeah, I'm not going to negotiate at all.

Yeah, I'm not going to negotiate it all.

Let's the record come out, because the record is on its way out.

Let the record come out.

The record does what it is doing what it does.

So now they're happy because like they.

Got fifty percent of my pocket so the record is popping.

They're getting fifty percent, but I also recoup.

Now.

The thing is for people that on the door understand what you're being given.

They're not giving you money, no record label, no publishing company that gives you money.

They owe.

They lend you money.

Yeah it's a long They lend you your own money interest with interest.

So this guy so, so then I paid back my loan and now they have to pay me, and they don't.

They expect to give you a high, high yield on it, and they expect you to oh oh and never have to pay out.

They don't expect by the next payout.

They got to give you a couple of hundred first record, Yeah, on the first record, And you know.

And I think as a producer, I'm not going to say I've produced on a lot a lot of stuff, but I've produced on a lot of quality stuff.

So, like my resume is over forty forty five million records sold based on the artists that I chose to work with and be on it.

Every album was multiple two, three, four, five times platinum, So that that gives that that pushes that money back.

So now it's like my situation now is just more of an admin deal.

They just collecting and I don't have to owe them anything.

But that took years to understanding, years to realize.

And so back to your man in Baisley, he don't have that time to understand that possible future for him.

You know, Like we can name way too many artists that got the super popping record.

The record is popping, then the publishing company kicks in and they now they want to scrape up the rewards.

He would have got those rewards anyway, you know, that's the point.

He would have gotten those things anyway.

So, like I said, it's it's crazy man.

It's a crazy game.

I know we spoke about Switch, but I want to.

Know how the record came about, Like like who was the people making the phone calls?

I believe everkan Next had something to do with that.

Every didn't have anything to do with Switch.

So Switch, I guess because of you know, just my time in the game.

I know Will, so you know what I'm saying.

It's not like I didn't know him.

But parents understand Will.

Yeah, just don't understand Hell yes.

And and I want to give a shout to Will real quick because throughout my career it's weird because it's not by design, but Will is always done some sort of a lookout without me knowing.

That has helped me.

So for example, when I first came out, Will had this he got his Grammy was eighty nine, he got his Bammy.

He had this big old crib in this area called Gladwin, Pennsylvania, And I went and there was a Grammy party everybody was there, and.

Will was like, yo, man, you know, I'm just coming out.

He was like, I really like what you're doing, like your vibe blah blah blah, some dope stuff, he said, but you got to understand what's ahead of you.

And nobody knows, nobody before me ever had this conversation any other artists.

I knew we was out just getting girls.

That's what we were doing.

He was like, you got to understand what was ahead of you, and he said, I'm not bragging, but I just need to show you.

So we go out into the garage.

He shows me all these cars.

He was like, each one of these cars come with a car note.

You know it about just because I got money, you got to maintain that.

And then looking at the crib and it's like, Yo, this crib comes with a mortgage.

You know, you got to figure out how are you going to maintain something like this because you can get this too.

Then then he has his Gram's like yo, you know it's like, you know, check it out.

And so it's my first time I'm holding a Grammy.

I'm like, yo, this shit is heavy, and I'm like he was like, you know, things come with that so just always be mindful about your business and about your spending because you're able to achieve that.

You know by the records I see you making.

I think you can achieve this, but just be smart.

So that was jewel number one.

Then flash forward, now I'm fucked up in the game.

I'm like, I don't have my deal.

Records ain't really popping just before you started producing?

Yeah, well I've always been producing.

I got produced all my stuff, so like before I started, I really really outside of you.

Yeah.

So I'm sitting at home, I'm I'm in Corona and looking at the Fresh Prince of bed and incomes my song only You, and they have a whole episode he's to it.

I'm like, oh shit, they use my joint.

So like that, I'm getting these ask caap checks that I would yo.

And that was rent, like straight rent being paid and a couple of Air Force ones and Mac ninety seven, and so I'm like, all right, good looking out because I didn't, you know, I never asked, but he wanted that record in the episode, and then that episode turned into another episode where that record was used.

So now I got two episodes of Fresh Prince of bel Air in syndication, handing me checks.

Literally helping me out from that.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm saying, but I was I was not happening at this point when these episodes was out, so I was like, Oh, this is good.

And then you fast forward to two thousand and I don't know four.

I think it was where Switched.

One of the people that work works with my man Omar, who used to be Will's dancer, actually reached out to me.

He was like, Yo, do you have any beats?

Will's working on a new album and he hadn't had anything out at the time, so I just sent him beats.

So Switch was already tailor made.

It was the beat, the hook.

I always handing beats, hooks, and sometimes song ideas like verses or whatever, but this one was just the beat and the hook fully done.

And then it was a couple of other joints and then Will and Omar called me and was like, Yo, we really want to Switch record and so it was just started working on it.

My man Kel Spencer from Brooklyn, he came in and helped out with the lyrics me.

Will Kel wrote the lyrics on it, and Will was filming the movie Hitch at the time.

So he would film hitch in the morning, come to the studio work on the album at night.

So this like this this dude was working hard and that's how the work the record came out.

Was that the album that he had on the track masters, on the Columbia track masters was the one before the Yeah, yeah, so this one.

I can't remember the name of the album anymore, but yeah, it was the one.

I it was after the.

I think it was like to get Jiggy Witted album and I think Big Willie Style was that album or I can't remember.

But then it was like a few years later he did this one.

You getting checks from my I company that switched thee.

So so that's the thing, and that's the thing that helped me, helped me recoup Bosh and Lahm had these removable what do you call them things to contact Switch and Yeah, so in all these countries in Europe it would be the commercial of like switch and Yo, they like when I tell you, I don't even want to disclose the amount of money, but just that commercial was the first advance I got from the publishing company, just that commercial alone.

So that's how I ended up super recooping correct sixty eight percent of so I don't even I don't remember that number, but it's that smoke.

So yeah, so when those when that check came in.

You know, even though the first the first check of it, I didn't necessarily see because it went back.

To recooping, recouped it.

Okay, you know between that and yeah, I was even Stephen at that point, I was like, fine, dude, I don't you know, I'm not even want to see the commercial.

I live in America.

I'm not this damn commercial whatever.

But then other things started coming along with it, and that showed me the power of trying to broaden your base.

Perfect example, with you and Theaton, it was a FIFA, there was an NBA, and there was some other things, and that was just for that particular record, you know what I'm saying.

So it taught me a lesson as a producer and as a writer, Like you know, right for the hood for sure, but is hoods everywhere, and you got to figure out that frequency that people can tap into.

Like I was saying with you in the Reggaeton, like I thought that was a monster move to do that.

I was like, you know, it's a whole world out here and people got to understand it's not just the block you want, and you got to understand that world.

Right.

Although, let me ask you, though, although you were producing for yourself, when you were you know, an mc ye putting out records, how did you how did you make that transition though to just being a producer and shopping these yourself as a producer.

So I'm going to give that that's a great question.

I was always produced, Like the first record, the first thing I ever did as an professional was I was.

I produced this record for Antoinette, Wrapper out of the Bronx and Answerinette.

I was maybe fourteen when I did this record, and oh the record is terrible.

I hated that record.

Man, I'm singing on it.

They spelled my name wrong, my name, they spelled the q U I M I.

My mother had to come to the studio and blackout on her manager because they're trying to pay me.

It was the wildest experience.

But watching Herbie Lovebug and watching him produce Salt and Pepper and Kid playing Dana Dane, That's what I learned.

What was peper first name?

SuperNature?

SuperNature?

And I didn't really understand what producer was so like it would be like Herbie would be in there with salt and pepper.

He was driving an orange nineteen seventy eight Dotson that was being helped together by duct tape like no lock.

Their first album dropped and Herbie disappeared, like he disappeared for the whole summer.

And when he came back, math Fat Rope Grilly pulled up in a Cherry red one ninety.

E with Gucci seats.

I was like, you, what the hell and he was like, i'm a, i'm a, I'm I'm going to do that.

So so after producing my own stuff, I'm always like trying to produce other people.

And I think two things that happen.

One, I want to give a shout to my man Rick Rick and Philly.

My man Rick Young Rick had a tap in at one point.

Every well, I think it's still like this.

Every person who has who sells Hood pharmaceuticals has a crew that can rap and they're able to, yes, they're able to fund projects, fund independent projects and help get their crew out of the situation they're in.

So we had tapped into a bunch of cruise in Philly that was doing that, and so that's how I started really starting to make the rent and starting to be able to get on that peter Pan beat after beat after beat, crew after crew, then you know, rocking with some cruise in hallm same thing, beat after be have to beat and then.

But at the same time I was still trying to get back on.

So my man Ron Lawrence, I played him some stuff and he was like, yo, man, that biggie, that biggie line.

Man, it kind of killed your name.

Yeah.

He was like kind of like, sawte your name out here.

Man, I don't know if you can come back out right now, but these beats are nuts.

Between Ron Lawrence and I got to give a shout out to the track masters because I come up there they were working on Mary's Out.

I'll be playing beats, but I'd be rhyming on them, and they were like, you want to sell the beat?

Like no, no, no, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta come back out and everybody, all the major people that I was playing these records for, Yeah, but they asking me to sell the beat, and I'm like, I don't even know how to take.

It because YO want my way.

But then on the other end, I'm like, but the beats is dope, and I'm I'm the kid in basically at this point.

So I'm like, I remember like track Masters, I remember like no, no, it was Ron Launch, Like, you know you can get twenty five grand for this beat right now?

I said, putting all of these rhymes is don't And he's looking at me like dog, you gotta understand where he's at right now in this world.

And I was like, all right, let's try it right And I didn't you know, He's telling me he can get beats.

So I'm laying up, I'm in the crib and he gives me a calling.

He's like, we got we got four Like what fuck you talk about?

We got four?

Four placements?

Yeah?

I'm like, what do you mean for?

He said, ll just bought three and Mary J.

Blige just bought one.

Wow.

And I'm sitting now, I'm in Harlem.

I'm in a one bedroom apartment in Halem, six floor walker.

I don't know where he buying from, married, I don't know who he's your story.

He's like, he said, so who do I make the check to?

I said, what you mean?

He said, Yo, we just sold four beats.

I'm like work And so the first thing because back then, you know, back then, the producer had to bring all their equipment to the student.

And so so I'm like, my first night, I've got to go to Sony Studios.

I gotta work on this.

The greatest studio on the planet beside a circle house.

Out here you run into anybody, and so you get I get that, and I'm nervous as ship because it's like, yo, am my.

Back and I don't even know it, you know what I'm saying.

So I'm like, this is your first placement as a producer, period, and do you know you meet me and now I'm not meeting him for the first time.

I'm saying, you know, you know you're going to lay it down for the tracks down.

For yeah, And I'm like, so, I'm like, I'm starting to get straight nervous, like I ain't never did this before.

And I'm like I had to snap out of it.

I go, I'm on the train.

I take the a train.

I got my MPC and a bag.

You know what I'm saying.

They rented the rest of my stuff and and I walk into the studio and I walk in and as you mentioned, Eric Nixon, shout out to Eric L's and the time, and L's there and I'm sitting and I'm setting my shit up and L walks in the room.

He's like, yo, Kual, what you're doing?

That's crazy?

He said, are we in the wrong session.

I was like, no, no, it's the right section.

She's like, what you're doing?

And I'm finishing your beat?

He was like wait what he said?

Ron didn't make that beat?

And it was nothing against Ron.

Ron never said he made the beat, but he was like, Ron didn't make that beat.

I was like, no, I made that.

He was like yo.

He was like, so you want to just get on the hook.

I was like sure, you know what I'm saying.

So the first record we did was a record on his album called ten called throw your L's Up.

So it doesn't say feature in kuwame, but I'm like, yo, shit, I got an ll cool J do it right.

So that's the first being.

Then you know, we worked on the.

Other We worked on another record called ten Million Stars, which is probably one of my favorite records I ever produced.

And then we did this children's.

Record call and the Winner Is and it like he did like a scholastic children's book, and it was like a rap record.

To go with that.

So we did those three records in the first week.

And then.

And then there was the other surreal moment where I was doing a show as Kwameta rapper on one side of the city and I had to finish the show early because I had to be in the studio with Mary to do her record.

And the whole time I'm on stage, you know, doing nineteen eighty nine records, I'm.

Just like, can this shit get over with so I can get into the studio and.

Be the new me, you know what I'm saying.

So it's like I throw the damn pok, I go into the studio looking fresh, and I'm like, Yo, this is I'm in the new lane now.

And I never looked back from that point.

Goddamn, because because I heard you speak about three different positions, right, you said artists obviously, then DJing, right and producing?

Is when did you become all three?

Or has that always been you?

That was always well, see, I'm from the area, We're all from the era.

When you say you do hip hop, you try to do every damn thing.

You try to write, you try to you gotta b box, you try to DJ, you try to break down, do whatever you gotta.

So I still believe that I cannot say that I'm hip hop without entering one of those chambers at any given time.

So if I got DJ, I'm a DJ.

If I got to write something on the wall, I'm gonna write something on the wall.

If I gotta do a beat on a BT box or whatever, or rhyme or whatever, it's whatever.

I don't know if I'm a head spin now, but you know what I'm saying.

It's like so I've been djaying as early as I can remember, like stealing my parents' equipment and going because I used to go.

My school was up the block from my house.

Shouts to Saint Gabes.

I would go up to school and do parties and.

Stuff like that.

You know what, I don't know, I must because it wasn't Kenny from around Kenny Smith from remember.

I think both of them went to the same games.

I believe.

Yeah, yeah, I know Kenny Smith might have because I think he told me that he did.

Okay, yeah, Eddie, I wanted to say, I wanted to say that for any coo, but he's not here yet.

But our boy Eddie, he was.

Brother.

Yeah yeah, yeah, my brother was five years behind me.

So yeah, so so.

Djaying has always been the first music money I ever made.

Was my fifteen dollars for Djay and Marianne Shilling For's twelve birthday party.

You know, I don't know what the hell I'm doing just putting records on.

But for me, I think you should try to embody all things if you can, you know what I'm saying.

So I don't get mad at and I know, let me say this to DJ now, even though I have a DJ right in front of me.

I think each thing that you claim to be, if you're a DJ, I think that's a sacred thing.

I don't think I will never call myself DJ Kwame.

I'll do a party, but I'm not gonna call myself DJ Kuame because that's not what I am.

You know what I'm saying.

I call myself an artist and a producer way before I select.

I'll select records, but I'm not gonna call myself a DJ because I think.

That's on him.

That's on him, you know what I'm saying.

Like I see it both sides.

I knew for me, it's a sacred title.

That's for me.

That's how I look at it when I.

See DJs and I see real DJs, not Serrado selectors.

I'm talking about real DJ cates crates at home.

Like I was talking to Red Alert the other day and I was like, I asked him because I was I thought it was a rumor.

I said, is it a rumor that you have an apartment in Harlem with so many records that the.

Years are buckling?

He said, that ship is true.

Wow, he said it's one hundred percent.

Yeah.

He said the floors are caving in, so he had to like strategically put the records around the floors because it's too much weight.

That's a DJ.

You know what I'm saying.

Where where I know DJ's that the records.

I'm pretty sure you've been in a DJ's crib where the records is the whole crib.

It just fakes everyone.

My record's all over my crab.

I got a separate office.

I got my records at the crib.

Yeah, And it's like like he told me when I got He's like, I wanted to bring one of your old rock records.

I couldn't find it.

That's some DJ ship.

And I can't be mad at that because I know what that is where it's like, oh, I got everything on my hard drive.

All right, cool, that's fine, you know, but do you have do you have this vinyl at home?

You know, I'm a Soado selector.

I select well, but I'm a Soado selector and and and i don't even choose a lot of times that to DJ.

I'd rather produce and perform than now.

Now, there was a rumor that at your hottest I'm talking about the hottest, but you were still riding the train.

Is that true?

Pro ride the train?

I mean all the time, all the time, like because like you know, that was the thing, like you know, yo, I will take the train.

Well, well, at my hottest hottest, yeah, because at my hottest, I'm in high school, so I had to get on the train that time.

You started at sixteen.

I heard fourteen earlier, well fourteen, the fourteen.

By the time that record came out, I'm sixteen, only seventeen.

Yeah, And at some point, let's be clear, at some point at my hottest, I did have to have like security, which was whack to me.

I thought it was like super whack because I went to this high school.

The main high school I went to was in Manhattan called high school art and design artist.

I wanted to do it and having project product, you went there, Sticky Fingers went there, parro Manch went there.

Who else?

When I heard you all went to school together, I didn't think it was our design.

Yeah, it was our design.

So Prince Paul Tree from you know that that group, that group organized confusion, So we all went to the school.

Cool him from umc's.

We're all at one point in time in the same school.

But my parents were getting divorced.

My pops moved to New Jersey.

I had it all predominantly Queen's artists though, right, Yeah, So how was how the all Queens artists end up?

I don't know.

We always you know how to draw and so so.

But long story short, I ended up in the high school Forest Hills High School in Queens for my for my eleventh grade, and that's when the album kicked in.

So the album kicks in, My advance kicks in, the album don't come out yet.

He comes, He comes, Stupid Kwalm, Stupid Kom pulls up Mega truck Jewelry.

I'm looking like Slick Rick versus Eric b versus Big Daddy King.

Then I borrowed from Herbie Lovebug.

He had this bracelet, but the bracelet came from here to here.

I'm coming to school with this monster bracelet, cube and links like Gucci.

I'm looking like a madman, all leatherland, French coats.

Wilding out.

I didn't know nobody the schemes were happening.

Trust me, the schemes are.

I'm looking.

I'm sitting in the lux roover on.

My scam scamsh so I'm walking through and I got cool with the security guard and he was like, yo, man, I just need to tell you they watching you.

I'm like, well, I know, I know the kids in the school is watching me.

He said, no, day watching you.

There's a there's a detective undercover in the school watching you.

Who thinks you move and weight in the school.

I said, Now, I'm a rapper.

He said, nobody gonna believe that ship wow.

And I'm like, for real, he said, yeah, so you know you gotta chill out with this.

You acting wow right now.

And I'm like, and I'm on the train with this.

Mind you, I'm looking crazy.

I'm crazy the eighties.

Yeah, I'm bugget So when you first back in the days when you get an album cover, it comes in like this sheet, this long sheet.

It's like a pressing, test pressing of an album covers.

And I had some cassettes, some pressing, some test cassettes, the test album cover.

And then the vinyl.

And I went to the principal's office and I was like, yo, I hear it, y'all watching me.

And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about, mister Holland I'm like, yeah, you know, that's fine, it's cool.

I know I need to turn tone it down, and I will because I don't know what I was thinking.

And I apologize for that, but this is a young age.

You used that and tell us that because I knew, you know, I was always taught.

You know, you you attract the heat that you get at all times.

You attracted real So I'm like, you know, and then you know, and I'm attracting another element because I know I'm being schemed oning.

So what happens now?

I got to bring my foot to school, you know what I'm saying.

And I got deal with these south Side kids and this that and the third it's like I'm a try I'm putting pressure on the school I'm putting pressure on myself and I'm putting pressure on the kids in school.

So it's like, all right, I understand what I'm doing.

His Wow, but this is what I do.

I'm a rapper.

I'm coming out.

The album comes out January thirty first.

This is like pre Christmas break.

So the principal goes, Yo, why don't you just don't come back?

Like the fuck?

He's like, you're about to be a rich rapper, hip hop man, right, why don't you just say?

I was like, wait, what this is the principal?

Yeah, that the principal don't look like me.

You know what I'm saying.

He's about the shade of his candle.

So he's telling me to drop out.

Bar sales height, Yeah, I don't even remember this guy's name.

Now, if I would have told my parents, especially my mom, and mom would have fast and I would have been Now, I got kids scheming on me.

I got the principal one to be the dropout, I got the DT and I here come my mom.

That's worse than all of them put together.

So I'm like, are you sure you want me to do that?

He's like, yeah, I think you should drop out.

Wow.

I said, I'll get back to you, so as Christmas break goes.

So what we decided to do.

Anybody in New York and will notice.

In the New York City school system we got a thing called six hundred School.

That's right, oh boys, yep, six hundred school.

I went there twice.

Which one you go to?

I went to one in Bridgewood and I went to one in Bushwick.

I was at Bushwick.

They were like, we're on the same block, six hundred school.

So my management should have known better because they were professional children's schools that I could have went to.

There was a school in Manhattan called PPAs and it was strictly for kids that were usually on Broadway or in TV shows or movies.

But they would have taken me, and I knew some kids my little brother.

My little brother was heavy into dance and he had a lot of friends like Dion Bud from The Cosby Show.

He used to go there.

Mcaulay Caulking used to go there, and they were friends of my little brother.

So I knew about I knew about the school, and I tried to suggest it, but they didn't know how to go to the route there, so they put me in a six hundred school.

Wow, And it made it seem like, you know, with six hundred schools, you either messing around in school and you bad and they tell you to go to the six hundred school, or you have an extenuating circumstance.

You got to take care of a parent, you have to work during the day, you're pregnant, teen, you're whatever.

So now I got to go to the six hundred school in Bushwick.

You know how it is in Bushwick in nineteen eighty nine, I didn't even know.

Yeah, I only knew Queens of the Yeah man tact.

You go get that there.

It's like, yo, where am I at?

So now I got to pull up And this time I'm not on the train.

I'm pulling up in a convertible, all white convertible.

No, no, no, I got this this folks wacken, folks waging cabriolet.

I'm pulling up, top down in January.

And still school.

And I'm not the tallest dude in the room.

I'm like five six, and I got this eight foot tall security dude next to me, and we walking through the school and everybody's looking at me like the fuck you have security in the school?

I had school security.

No, I had to have security in the school.

So I'm walking through the school.

I'm trying to be everybody hey, you know, and he's looking at me like, yeah, you got a big security.

Go.

So I get into the school and they make me sit in a closet for the whole school day.

I'm in a meat big man a desk and I'm in the closet.

You in school, I can't they separate, like like I'm in PC, but in school.

In school, I'm like, six hundred is kind of like jail.

Yes.

So I'm like in this clause, I say, why can't I be around the other kids?

And the teacher's like, you cannot be around the other kids.

I'm like, they could be my friends, you know, they cannot, like, just do your work.

So I'm doing my.

School work and the music's out already.

The music is out popping, so everybody knows I'm popping.

And the lucky thing, the thing that took me out of the six hundred school was I did a deal with them where I can go on tour.

Wow.

And when I go on tour, they send me the work like homeschool.

Yeah, And I do the work and then when I come off a to it, I just hand it in.

It's like hey, coming in the morning, handing it and get the hell out out of here, you know.

But they had to mail you, not email you.

No either, somebody from my management company were going to pick up a pocket or say if I'm there week one, they'll give me a packet for week two, three, and four.

I'm going.

And so that's privilege.

You call it privilege.

Everybody getting chicks.

And I was sitting there doing math.

I'm like, this is not you know what I'm saying.

I was disciplined, but like my godfather was one of my role managers, like, yeah, my moms, wasn't my mind's possible, wasn't playing it.

And the first tour that I was on, I'm actually getting a contact high.

It's pretty cool.

Yeah, I'm like floating it.

But I never experienced after before.

But so.

So so, and that's one of the.

Things with contact high, you don't remember ship.

So the first tour I was on was that n w A to Ever see the n w A movie one tour.

That was my first tour.

You on that tour?

Yeah, so it was me who ship me and w A?

Yeah, he was the host.

So this had the toy this is what how don't hip hop?

I was back in the day.

This is some real ship?

So T.

K.

Kirkland was the host, opening host of he would host throughout the whole thing.

Then the opening act was the d O C.

And after the d O C was J J Fad you know, Dre had to put his axe on.

Then we had just like random acts.

There was an act.

There was a group seven eight three was one of the groups from down here, Poison Clan that maybe this leg when we came here, the certain Poison Clan because we used to clown the fun out and I'm pretty sure it was on that tour.

But then it was kidd and play on the get this it's too short.

It's myself, It's easy.

And then n w A.

So they have the police.

So every city, mind you, this is arenas.

We're not doing clubs.

We're doing thirty thousand arenas.

Every every night.

You're eighteen nineteen, I'm seventeen seventeen.

Jesus, I'm sixteen going on seventeen.

This is wild.

So every night we're doing these arenas.

But because of fuck the police, all law enforcement countrywide boycotted the shows, so there was no security in thirty thousand.

You talk about this here before, but there was no violence.

Right.

We had to talk to the people like, yo, y'all want this show to go on, y'all got to chill.

Whatever happens after the show, y'all take that shit outside.

It's the only way this show is going to happen.

And then the police chief will show up and they'll come in.

They'll have a list.

Now if you'll say fuck shit, damn it, if you do any kind.

Of gyrating with your penis or anything like that, immediately arrested.

So they would tell us this as we right before we get on stage.

So the mandate was we would all have a meeting, everybody sit there and easy.

It would be like, yo, it ain't about who goes on last or first.

This was gonna happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he was like, yo, calm, you get on, you do your thing.

As soon as you get on, get off because you're the clean guy.

Get off.

I'm running on.

I'm gonna do my thing.

Yes, I'm gonna run on, and then I'm bringing w a out and we're.

Gonna spas the fuck out at the last song is fuck the Police, as fuck the Police is going on, We're gonna jump in the crowd, run out the front.

Can you play?

You get right on stage, so fuck the police gets on.

They all boom, shut down the middle.

And then following then is come on man, it comes on, cleaning up or we would switch out quime you're gonna last.

You gotta do it tonight.

You know, it would be that switch up.

And that's some hip hop ship.

It wasn't.

It was three.

It wasn't had nothing to do with East Coast, West coast anything.

That was just.

And everybody because hip hop wasn't mainstream, and because hip hop wasn't, I feel like it's almost like I want to I want to liken it to like Latin concerts.

You know how Latin concerts.

Can do a whole stadiums and arenas and like, but some of those artists aren't on mainstream radio.

This is not on mainstream like American radio.

Yeah, but two hundred thousand people will be up in them.

Was arena because they know it and it's a part of the culture, and it was That's how hip hop was.

It was a part of our culture, and everybody wanted to see it.

So how youre going to not pack thirty thousand, thirty thousand kids, all colors, all races.

It wasn't had nothing to do with nothing.

It was just people who love hip hop.

And then you know that tour morphed into like then it was like a Public Enemy n w A I mean Easy E tour because that n w A Toys that was the only tour.

It was a rap after that.

So then you know I would be on tours.

I would be on tours with people from Public Enemy to Teddy Valley and guy it what doesn't matter.

It was if it was of the time, you on that kind of tour.

And that was luckily for me and the type of records I made, I was able to get on all those different types of tours.

Damn that was amazing.

So I read somewhere that you say that your mom's watches everything you do.

You do, so they're gonna tell moms to tool out for this part, yo, head phone me go don't understand man, Let's not.

Watch this part.

Because I got to ask you.

You've been on all of these tours, you have the oh and this is this is the definition of groupies.

How many groupies.

You think you smashed?

I said, homework, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, homework got finished.

Like I'm not well Chamberlain, because my my, you know, like you could see some rappers they got eight, nine, ten, twelve kids.

That's from groupie loving.

Now I ain't got that, but yo, I'm telling you, it'd be like the wildest.

Like we would have the wildest situations, like we pull up to the it'd be stuff like the tour bus will pull up and it'll be a girl.

I said, I want Carmel, Like what's carmel?

Car Mail?

I want Carmel, you know, deal with the dots in the street, Calmel.

And I'd be like, all right, Caramel.

She couldn't say, she just called me calml.

So so so groupy love would happen sometimes before we're even checking the hotels, Like the bus pull up and they got on, and it'll be these girls and you gotta watch it because you don't know, you don't know what it really is.

So for example, one time I was I don't remember what state I was in.

These girls came in and they had on his short They all will.

Poke it out.

That's what I know.

Which ones was mine?

Everyone they Yeah, the n w A girls.

Girls will always have a Raiders hat on.

They would have body suits with holes in it.

So you see like half they ask everything, half they everything.

You know, that's easy ease girls man like, you don't mess with them.

But then the calm girls, they look like, you know, they were the high school chicks with the you know, the short pleated skirts to poke it out biker shorts.

Yeah, you know, like the fifty four eleven.

You know what I'm saying.

It was like, you know, some teenagers.

So we pull up into one city and these girls are like poke it out it down in these little tight skirts.

The limousine pulls up, she takes off a shirt, puts them on a glass.

I'm like, yo, I'm see.

I'm like, yeah, they writing their name and number and lipstick on the thing.

And and our term, I'm not gonna give you the term because we still use the term, so just say, for lack of a better term, like, oh, we smash it.

So the show comes in and always is always the after party, and you always announce.

People would announce what hotels we were at on stage.

Holiday party, so the girls would nowhere to go.

So now, mind you these girls.

I got to rewind that because one of the girls looked like she was all of twelve years old.

She was wilent.

The other girls around the look of age with this one looks like a little sister that got out okay, and she was wild.

And so we get to the hotel and it's a knock on my door and I'm like, who knows my room?

I opened the doors and this girl checked out.

She had the doobie weed bob or whatever you call it, all made up, super tight skirt on and she came in.

She's like, I'm ready for you.

I'm like, you ready for me?

And I'm seventeen and I'm like, I'm ready for you.

And right before it happened, she's like, you don't remember me, do you.

I was like, nah, who are you?

I was the one with the blah blah blah.

I'm like the twelve years yeah, bounce, you gotta bounce.

And now you gotta understand.

That's how ill it was.

It was so ill that I've witnessed mothers bring their daughters to the hotel like I've seen it.

The mother bring my he's my she she's seventeen.

She just wanted to meet you, y'all have fun like what yo?

What?

Or while shit like girlfriends or wives coming into the to the lobby and I'm pretty sure you're seeing your shit too.

But what I'm saying girlfriends or wives and it'll be like whoever gets down with the girl and they get You're walking them, trying to be a gentleman.

You're walking them into the lobby, and they don't tell you they married, They don't tell you they got a girlfriend.

And then here comes the man out of nor.

And swings up, knocks the girl out wild stuff.

You're like, yo, it's like this ain't none of your business.

I'm playing.

It ain't my business at all, you know what I'm saying.

So at an early age, I learned to really watch what that is.

I've been in malls, Like I've been in malls and.

Random girls come up to me with like kids and they be like, Yo, you know MC such and such.

Yeah, that's my man.

Tell him this his kid, kid.

You need to tell him.

I don't know how you take my number and you're telling him he's in Phoenix, Arizona.

He got a six year old son.

Look at it looks just like him doing it And I'm like, yeah, kind of dude, So you gotta really watch that.

That groopy, that groopy situation.

Luckily, you know, I was able to dodge and and I ended up having a real good girlfriend.

That would be on the road with me.

So I was just like, you know, check it.

And if my mom was around, you know, was before that.

He was knocking a lot of things down.

Man.

I'm just I'm I'm I'm doing what I gotta do, you know, because I always wondered.

I was always like, do you think Kwame might have sucked one of Biggie's bitches.

That's the reason why Biggie said that, you think I think so?

You think so?

I don't know, man, I think I'm jo but no, but something like that has happened.

I'm working on these ja.

Yeah, waiting on these records, and I'm in the elevators just me and Dame.

Dame looks at me.

He's like, you're a cool dude, man with you and everything, But at one point in time, I just wanted to fuck you up.

I was like, what Shi man, This girl named Keisha man I used to love for me.

He was fucking to me.

He was messing with my girl.

And he kept coming around the block knocking this down.

I wanted her so bad.

I was like, but I ain't out of my fault.

Don't be mad at me, you know what I'm saying, charging to the game, but I'm saying, you know, that was like a light, light hearted thing that was That was cool.

But I don't know.

I think I think with the big situation, I don't think it was personal at all.

I don't think personally.

I never looked at it as personal.

Matter of fact, we knew way too many of the same people, So I know if there was a personal thing, I would have known about it, you know, from puff on down, Like we knew too many same people.

I think it was a line.

If you listen to that first album, he got lines on damn everybody will is to escape to me, you know some dreams where he's talking about yeah, like you know, and.

I know some R and B artists at that point took offense to that.

They was like, so, I don't think it was personal.

But as I look during the time, it wasn't funny to me.

But now it's the funniest thing in the world because other people outside of me took it personal and I didn't have a record out, and I'm a slick talker man, Like you know you're gonna get at me.

I'm a fine every way shape or form to get back.

So if I do an interview and everybody else kick around, and I would say something and get on like I'm going, I was saying delicious stuff.

So wow, I didn't catch that.

It was it was just like random things like you know, dow here because I didn't have a thing to come back.

So you know why you always come across from me as a person that's not bothering.

I'm not.

I'm not.

What you just said comes shocking.

Yeah, yeah, And what I was saying was not not in petty things.

I'm always like tongue in cheek.

I'm always going to crack a joke about it.

I'm never gonna come at you from a point of anger at all.

But at the same time as hip hop, so you know, you gotta like you gotta still stand up for yourself in some way shape or for him somebody's asking.

But like I said, I never took it personal.

It was always like I give you a perfect example.

It was a club in New York called Bentley's Bentley's.

Remember okay, now it turned in the club Shadow because the whole school yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yea.

So we would go to Bentley's every Thursday night.

We'd be pulling up in Bentley's.

So Biggie King the album comes out, and I'm sitting and I'm talking to this girl this.

After Biggie said the line, yeah, okay, well this is like right at the time, like just and I'm talking to this girl.

This girl is bad.

I'm trying to bag us.

And then they throwing unbelievable and everybody's like and it's like people kind of hearing it for the first time.

And then then the line comes on, played out like Quame and the Poconons, and then the DJ drop the music shouts to quamet.

I'm like, she gets up and I'm like worm running back.

So it was always that, it wasn't and then and then there was a point where like I never ran into big until this one night.

We we did Mad Wednesdays.

Okay, Maria Davis.

Davis was that in Mahas.

So it was on seventy second Street in Amsterdam.

The whole building ain't even there no more.

Okay, So we do Mad Wednesdays, and I have a I have a record out at the time, I had an album that came out maybe.

A few months after Ready to Die.

It's called Incognito.

And that album, by the way, the album went triple styrofoam on the wall.

So so I was doing like a performance that mad Wednesday sort of.

When we walk in, the first person I see at the ball was Big.

I was like, oh, here we go with this ship.

So I don't say nothing.

You don't say nothing.

We go into the day and I do my performance.

We rock, you know, we did.

We did well.

And so Maria's like, well, you know, we got a little controversy in the building.

You know that Biggie Small said something about you on the record.

He's here, you here, y'all need to settle this beef.

WHI ch'all want to do?

So I had to dudes with me, this is the funniest shit ever.

So she means, I don't know what she meant.

Yeah, it was a whatever situation.

So Big had his guys with him.

I had like four guys with me.

Now, y'all know my style.

I'm not gonna be in the tyms and whatever.

I'm in a hard bottoms in a tamn suit and a tie, looking like the insurance man.

I was just on my my caple shit, looking like I don't know, Eddie Murphy and Boomerang or something.

So I get off stage and like I said, I'm I'm.

Five six, five six and a half at most, and I just remember Big walking up and him looking like he was nine hundred feet tall and he was rolling a blunt like this stick.

He was just I saw.

All I remember is the blunt and his mask coming at me, and he was like, Yo, what the fuck you want to do?

And I'm like, what the fuck you want to do?

So he just we're talking.

It was actual smoke, like he was walking up.

I was, and I was.

I wasn't back down, But all I heard in the back of my mind was Michael Jackson Billy Jean, because every dude with me did the moon walk.

Out the fucking I turned around.

I'm like, I'm like, are you crazy?

Now?

I want to say I got to ask Sees when the next time I speak to him, But.

I want to ask him if he was the one who stepped in between us, because I don't remember he stepped in between us, Like the fuck are y'all doing y'all bugging brother?

And Biggie was like, yeah, you know, you're right, You're right, and I was like hey, but I was like, I'm not even mad at y'all, mad at them niggas, and I can't wait for skating out and so and then and then it turned into like, y'all not gonna be fighting up in the club.

You're it's like nobody fighting that.

No, no, no, big you leave out the front, come, you leave out the bat, you know.

And so we had to leave the club and then that was it from there, And I think that was the most it ever anything.

But I just felt like that night was so funny because I just didn't know my boys knew how to do the moon walk, and I never let them down for that.

I'm like, yeo, which I couldn't.

I couldn't fight in your hard bottoms?

Then what's going on here?

Do you feel that that line, that Bige line kind of like really put a stop to your.

Career.

It wasn't happening.

This is nineteen ninety four.

My last big record was maybe not.

You felt like it was already whining down.

Yeah, Like so it was like a nail in a coffin for that for that era.

And that's that's what I was actually telling that to people.

I was like, I feel like that line was a nailing.

The cuff into the whole era.

Ye it was like the silky suit.

That whole era was now something new.

I called it the grimy nineties, grimy nineties already we're in here now and that smove early nineties eighty stuff.

It's a different it's a different time.

So that's why I said, I don't take it personal.

I never took it personal, Like unbelievable.

It was one of my favorite records, to be honest with you know what I'm saying, And I've told Premierre many things.

I love that record.

I hate that line, but but this but also what shows the respect that a lot of DJs had for me, because everywhere I went in the country, if that record will play, a.

Lot of DJs would mute it.

If I was there, they would at least be that respectful to do that.

No, that was just that was just spin it back or just just mute it, or just whatever they would do.

And you know, I respected that and after a while be like, looky, y'all not bothering me play the damn record.

It's not like you put like you're going at me.

So I understood that, and I understood what it really was.

So I never really like, I never really took it any kind of way, you know, And I felt bad, you know, at his passing.

I felt bad for his mom and his you know, his family and everything like that.

So I was like, nah, man, I don't.

I don't hold no kind of maliciousness to anybody.

I definitely don't think he I don't.

I mean from my I don't think he did it person.

To be talk about this.

I could have been anybody.

I think it was a good verse on his part, like he just like this is funny.

Nobody knew who I was, that line would have been trash right.

If nobody brought into what I was doing and understood my impact at the time, that line would have made no sense to nobody.

So I always think of things that flipping into the positive first, you know, before you know, you don't go off the rails first, you know, first one of the forty eight laws of power, like you don't somebody say something negative, whatever, you don't fly off, you know.

So you know that's how I always look at it.

It's like it is what us, but you know, as an outside of looking at it, as the inside of looking out.

The two things about the Polka gass one, do you actually understand the pack of the pokons?

Because it's a two part question, right one, At one point one everyone wore a pok do.

Pokon is for everybody, but everybody's not for poka dots exactly.

Everybody did not know how to pull off the right so but the thing was, it was it was a fat like no other.

Like I'm telling my my son today, like we're watching your interviews and I'm like, yo, you have no idea like like like like like, and then I can't even use example.

I'm like, yo, I'm trying to say to him the throwbacks with jay Z And then I'm looking at my son and I'm like, that's not even a good example for him.

I'm just so confused.

But I should give him, like the Pousche heisty man, the.

Person who lived in that era, did you understand how it influential you was with your attire that because that's the first time that me for me, that's the first time I see people wanting to dress like a rapper.

You know what I'm saying.

So yeah, So for me, it was everything was by circumstance.

So for example, with the polka dots.

You take my first album cover, you flip flipped the album cover over, Boys Genans, You flip the album cover over.

I have on this white shirt with black dots, of black tie with white dots, and if you could see my feet, I had on black socks with white dots, right, same outfit.

When my first single was a record called The Man We All Know in Love, that same outfit is on the single cover because I shot it at the same time.

My first video, that same outfit I used to look like.

I had on some pajamas and a scene.

So you take those, and that's because that was my favorite outfit.

I didn't have.

I ain't really had on money, Like my advance were small, like I spent money on them stupid chains, so that I never ended up wearing as an artist, and so people thought that's his thing, but it wasn't.

You know, I like to dress up.

I used to like the certain ties and you know that GQ look, but it wasn't a polka dot thing.

The streak and the hair.

I just had a regular flat top, And six hours before my first video, I was like, look, what if my record flops, what if my record don't play?

What if nobody knows who I am?

I want people to recognize me.

Yo, let's throw a streak in the middle of the so you know, and cats.

You know, I knew cats that were had blonde streaks and all this, like village cats and all that kind of stuff.

They was doing that stuff.

So I was like, yo, let's let me throw a streak up in my heir because at least they'll recognize me.

If anything, you know, I don't know if I got no saying if the records are hit, So I show up to the video with that on, with the poko i thing on.

And then when it was time to start doing shows, every city we would hit, it'd be a pocket of kids or the whole audience looking just like that.

So the first show I did, I was like, Okay, somebody fucking with me.

Somebody played a big plank because all these kids got on dots, got streaks up in their heads looking crazy.

I'm like, there is no way.

But then as we started hitting and it wasn't just a New York thing, it was a Pennsylvania thing, it was.

A Virginia thing.

Yeah.

Man.

Then I was getting pictures and letters from Africa and US, like polka dot shirts, France and.

Exactly.

I'm like, what Japanese kids like doing b boy posters with the polka dots and sending me letters in Japanese.

I can't even read it, and I'm like word.

And then another Will Smith moment, Will shout out to Charlie Mack, Who's who's Charlie called me from Morocco, Africa.

He was like, yo, man, we up in this party and banging your records and all the kids got on polka dots.

I was like, and I'm sitting here in Queens Like calling me from Africa telling me this.

I was like, how much is this cool?

This is nineteen eighty nine, Like this is not not an expended this is an expensive call.

So that's when I started to understand that that impact.

So I think by the time I put out my second album, A Day in the Life, we incorporated a lot of Polka dot stuff.

And then it was so funny because there was a record on A Day in a Life call It's Okay and on, it's okay.

I literally say that's it.

I'm not doing this no more, no more pokadon stuff.

So back to let's take it back to the biggie thing.

So when he was like it's played out, I'm like, yeah, it's been playing I've been told you this like three years ago.

So that's why I'm saying it's not it ain't.

It ain't what it is, just just so you know, to tell you an impact.

But we finally locked you in to say that we finally finally got you right.

And I appreciate y'all.

Let me come on, thank you for doing that.

I set up with a group chat and we all have a group chat and I'll say, yo, listen, everybody go try to get poka dot.

So this is how ill your impact is.

And I didn't realize that everywhere we went it was sold out.

Wow.

We couldn't buy it had to take two days.

Wow.

Wow Wow.

I just thought about that.

It was like it was a message from God, because it's like it's like almost now we know you didn't of course in our community, right, like I ain't even don't, but I brung it to America, right, so they got to give me that boy in our community.

Of course there's pokon dots that exists in other genres, but you and it just made me.

It made me turn it all into business because I was just doing that.

You wanted to be funny you walk here.

Yeah, yeah, it killed me, kill me.

And I was like, but it was literally like.

I kid you not like like but everything was sold out and it was a two day order, so we were ordered.

It when it came on Thursday.

You know, it's a two levels to it.

I wish that I had somebody in my corner when I was sixteen seventeen that told me, like, take your money.

The one good thing I did with my money was buy equipment.

You know what I'm saying, because that turned me into what I ended up being later.

Right, but take your money, find a way to make your own Polgoda.

Shirts would have lasted oh your own version of my own line, and I would have been would have been yours.

Yeah, I would have sold it.

That shows I would have went up to Strawberries or Merry Go Round or whatever was selling whatever gap Yo girt like look going to going to coliseum and had my own center, or had I had a stand I know it's I know it's not open no more.

But that's that's my era.

You know, the Colosseum, that whole block is good.

Oh yes, some face tim me from now, Like I mean, I wasn't physically didn't physically fail her, like like just seeing that.

Yeah, man, you know what's surviving, the beef, the the jerk chicken spot still standing strong.

So good about that.

Ahead continued, But I'm saying I could have had that if I would have had that business acumen back then, and they could have ended up getting played out, I could have I could have turned that into something else.

I could have been, you know, I could be I don't know, yeah, whatever I could have.

I could have been a major brand right now if I would have just started with that, you know, like how food Boo started with hats and then they turned into a major brand, and I could have sold it for seven hundred seven hundred million dollars or whatever.

So I wish I would have That's my only industry regret.

I have no other regrets but that.

I wish I would have been able to figure that part out.

So let me ask you again.

So you talked about that one time you met bigs.

Did you ever see Big again after that?

Or that was yeah?

Yeah, like like just in like parties.

Yeah, And there was no smoke after that.

We just did yeah, like I was you know, I could be there and talking to puffing and just me saying, they're giving me to look like.

Right now, this is something I don't I'm not I'm not positively sure I'm correct with this information.

But one I feel like only You was the start of hip hop, R and B collapsed, right, I feel like that was one of the originals of hip hop or R and B at least from from from from from my point of view.

But I also remember me hearing only You what a version without you on it?

No, it's never it wasn't.

So so one day ever played like in.

The daytime and like trying to cut rap out because I remember there was a rap like yeah, show said no rap, But I remember hearing that in the daytime with just a hook.

If you heard that, I don't know anything about that, okay, So so for people that don't know, a lot of radio stations across this country have what they call a no wrap work day six A.

You know, they called it rap rap crap, Yeah.

Don't we not playing that rap crap rap crack if you don't want to hear that rap trap?

Yeah during work, so terrible, terrible, Yeah, we are not playing rap.

So from six crap Yeah, that rap crap.

Don't forget the crap.

Somebody Grandpap's made that one up.

So from six am.

To six pm in some places, seven thirty in some places, and nine pm in a place, you're not hearing no rap.

So two things happen with only you.

One.

I wanted the bag Vanessa Williams.

You want how to be your sugar mom.

I want her to be my mama, Mama, mama she was.

I didn't know how, I didn't know how I was gonna do it, but I was gonna try to back.

And so I wanted to make a record where she sang it and I featured.

So I figured that the record It's Hot, and I featured.

I meet her at the video and she would say, you don't got to go back to Queens, you can just come back with me.

I'd be like, I bet.

So that's the mind of a seventeen year old, So I'm making on you for that.

I didn't make the album, so I was like all right, let me just I'm gonna make it for myself and maybe, just maybe I can get a six o'clock in the morning play.

I can get that daytime play.

Wait, hold on talking about six o'clock in the morning.

Was the ship, yeah, because you wake up and people were driving to work that drive time.

The morning shows at this time not really, not really, no, I think about it now.

It was just somebody playing, you know whatever, whoever the DJ was.

The only people that have morning shows are like the white station's like don Imus and yeah, I like Donad's and Stern.

I was staying on things like that.

It was never a black He's the racist dude, right, yeah, yeah, I didn't.

Think he's a man.

So he called the girl.

We remember.

We walk around these tight cowboy pants and looking crazy.

So I wanted to hear my record at six o'clock in the morning, like you know, any other artists would.

And I think at the time, I'm not gonna call myself I invented it, but I helped push it because you had some heavy D records, probably playing some like Salt Pepper, Express Yourself, like those type of records they might have been playing.

But I wanted a record that was equal R and B, equal hip hop.

It could play in the club, it could play in the radio, and people it's not soft like if you listen to the owner, you beat, that's not a soft beat, you know what I'm saying.

Like, I always try to go hard, like no matter what I'm you know what the beat is, I'm trying to give you know, give you some grit to it.

So so I was able to achieve all of that.

And but the wild thing is.

I started to learn that the record labels was in cahoops with the records the radio stations on some no wrap stuff.

Because I slid through the cracks with that one.

But then my label, Atlantic Records started to now separate the rappers.

We wasn't just on.

Atlantic Records no more.

They had to put a label on all rap records and they called it Atlantic Street.

No, No, the title of the label was they they took all the rap.

Records off of Atlantic and put them on a label called Atlantic Street.

This is what they were saying.

Yeah, so they were stickers.

Yeah, So they was put these stickers on the record that said Street on it, and it had like some corny dude doing like some weird, great dance move and so when the program directors will get these records, it was the signal, all right, this is what we don't play during the day.

We'll just give it to the mix shows.

But I'm like, yo, why are the labels even down with something like that?

Y'all supposed to be trying to push this thing forward.

So you know that was just my contribution to try to crack open that door, and which you did, so you know, you know I'll give I'll give credit to that.

Right, So let me ask you a question right right now, they just announced that you know, Bad Bunny is hosting or the Super Bowl commercial Bad Bunny.

Uh, this genre of music that comes from reggae, reggae for that part or that portion of it comes from that part of hip hop.

Even know reggae it's probably even lasts as long as hip hop or just as long.

So I want to ask you a biggie line.

Did you ever think that hip hop would make it this far?

Yeah, you had this vision When I was a kid.

I used to tell my friends, we're gonna get hip hop from other countries.

We're gonna get hip hop from and so if it hasn't happened yet, because I'm still waiting for the hip hop record that super blows Up.

That's just that everybody knows that isn't in English.

Oh well that's bad Bunny.

Yeah, but he means like more.

You mean like more main like hip hop, like hip hop hip hop, because Bad Bunny, you different genre.

Adopted hip hop baby Yeah yeah yeah, so so that might come from Asia.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, because you're doing with K pop now, Yeah, you do.

You go to a K pop show?

See dude, I said k pop?

You don't remember you said it?

Did it on a show?

My daughter?

Right now?

Is all all about the K pop demon Hunters.

Yeah yeah yeah man, it's like and they can a new ads, a cartoon.

It's like a big kid cartoon.

It was crazy going on.

Yeah no, no, you K pop like where I live in where I live in California.

It sounds weird, but it's predominantly Korean and Chinese in my area.

So every mall I go to, and it doesn't have to be my area.

Every moll I go to every is what they call it's a store called K pop station, and every mall has like three of them joints in there and they packed like that that culture on our culture is real, Like it's some real stuff.

I just feel like they may switch their groups out every of a week.

It's like a whole new versus bt S and then it's like I don't know X y Z and I'm like.

What he's got?

But I influenced heavily.

Yeah yeah, no, no, no.

If you listen to like A or like the boy band stuff, like, it's very yeah, it's very very.

Thousands vibe and they keep they know that aesthetic, they know that similarity, and they know what that vibe.

There's like this girl k K pop rap group.

I'm trying to remember the name, but like I see it on TikTok all the time of your girls spitting like straight spitting in English.

But I don't think they know English.

That's the weird thing.

And they got they got it down.

I'm like, yo, this, I gotta find I gotta find the name of that group.

But but I think that.

It definitely the hip hop vibe has definitely gone further than what I what I imagine.

And I love the fact that Bad Bunny is doing the super Bowl because you think about it any kind of Latin representation in the Super Bowl has either been j low right, Glorious, Stefan, who else?

Would you count Shakira for sure?

So you that's it.

That's all I can remember.

Probably you know, Manula was in the eighties.

I don't know they they never did that Super Bowl.

But but.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't watch football.

I call it foosball.

I don't watch football like that.

But correct me if I'm wrong.

Every time, every time they've gone on the Super Bowl, maybe minus Glorious stuff, it's always been like a double up, like you got to bring them out or like one comes out and then like j Lo comes out, but she got to bring out Hero.

You know.

It's like it's never like somebody on there like doing doing the only one that I can even remember by himself like that.

But could you bring out Drake?

No, no, Kause you did it?

Yeah, I don't remember d Yeah, Dre brought out kenderd But.

Okay, but they had the record together, so she just did the hook on the right.

But I mean yeah, but as his totality, it was like basically just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Samuel Jackson and Serena Williams.

But but what I'm saying is for bad Bunny to be able to have it for him.

Now, if he decides to bring people out, that's on him.

But it's not.

It's not an advertised adveratis.

This is just him.

Yeah, And.

People, I'm going to just be a little bit knowledge dropping real quick.

People's got to people have to understand something.

Let's take it back to slavery.

Let's take it just back to what's supposed to be black and not black, and this, that and the third.

When the enslaved Africans came over here about astually, how much percent do you think came to the United States area this part of America?

If you could guess the percentage of total enslaved people that came to the United States, thirty say thirty take your guess.

Five.

Wow, look at up, five percent of us came here.

So the other ninety five percent Latin America, Latin America, Caribbean and.

The Caribbean Brazil holds their highest amount of numbers of enslaved Africans that come here.

So everywhere down.

The African DNA is within all of us, you know, and then the colonizers DNA and and and and the native DNA.

So I'm never gonna look at anybody from this side of the world funny style for doing their version of hip hop and taking their version of hip hop to another level, because we're all doing what we're So that's are that's our generational music.

We may not know what, we may not understand it.

We may think we're pulling from this, that and the third, but we're pulling from a DNA strand that's that's longer than any of.

Us can think of.

And we're all putting our own stamp on it and changing it and adding to it, and whatever else you get from around the world is based on our influence that we have on around the world, you know.

And so, like I said back to bad Bunny, you're like, yo, let's rock.

Okay, you from this side of the world, and you're doing your thing, and and it's based in what we all do in love rock.

Get on that stage and kill it.

And I love the fact that all of his songs has very little English as possible exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Apple is introducing their new I like their translation translation.

I'm saying genius that they're the sponsor, and then they're introduced.

He'll still be singing and Spanish.

Wait wait, wait, how's this gonna work.

He's gonna be on stage.

They got Google goggles right now, they got a person could speak to you Google goggles.

I mean, you know, they got the translations.

What was his name?

Show Speed.

I see him in China and as the lady was talking to him, he puts on the glasses.

Yeah, and it translates.

You know.

Let me tell yourself, the ladies, I'm gonna speak to all the ladies.

Y'all get your nails done at the at the Korean nail spots.

And you hear them talking.

You want to know what's going on.

Just get the glasses, get the translators, and just sit sit back.

Oh listen, bro, it's crazy.

We're talking about this today.

Homie and Mike.

He called me accidentally on his phone.

Yeah.

I never even knew that there was an app for this or whatever the fuck he has on his phone.

He's mumbling, he's talking, but he's he called me by accident.

Yeah, so he's not talking to me.

He's talking somewhere and I hear come with look and I'm like, the fuck.

I hear him talking in English?

Yeah, in the background and there's a translator talking to me.

Oh but okay, see, okay go and some cans, yeah forget, what the fuck I go?

I was like, yo, what you gotta.

Trans He said, yoh yeah, I have the translator app.

When I called Puerto Rico, I don't speak Spanish, so I called and I use the translator.

Yeah.

I do it all the time.

I know that shit existed.

I do it all the time.

That my guy that fixes my computers and stuff, he's from China, he don't know no English.

I walk in with Google Translate.

I say I need this hard drip blah blah blah, and I just show him, show him the words or sometimes they'll say it.

But before I did that, I didn't know.

And you know, like I think, especially black people, we think that somebody's always talking about us when he hears something in another language.

Are they talking about us sometimes?

But they might not be.

So I just wanted to test that out.

I'm getting my hard drive fixed and the guys from China and they't chopping it up, and I'm like, oh, I know they talking about me.

I put that Google Translate on and he was like, yeah, my sister's a whore.

Shit.

I was like, you don't under sound.

I gotta talk some personal my sister.

Man she came yo, man, I was, he was.

He was going in on the system.

The sister came in in the middle of the night.

He knows she was smashing the dude next door.

I was like, yeah, so you know it's I think if you don't get.

The Google Glasses of the Apple thing, at least get Google Translate on your phone, go into a space that you're not familiar with and just turn it on.

You'll be surprised that what you you might hear somebody going in on you.

You might not, but we need that formis to lead.

When he announced this thing, hold on Flowers.

Well, you know our show was about giving people they flowers while they could smell them.

Yes, they thought what they could tell them, They thought what they can think of them.

And he drinks while they.

Can drink them, and this smoke while you can yes, and the smoke while you can't help that Snoop.

Snoop said, it's better than the Grammy because it comes for your people.

You see your watch, that's a beautiful watch me, Oh my god.

The piano watch.

Piano watch that's fine.

I don't know what time it is.

No, y'all people, y'all gonna be substitute drinkers, drinkers.

Yes, what's happening.

We're gonna play the drinking game.

Yeah, but there no first they're going I'm not want to I want one hundred percent.

Thank you for that.

I never I never received the grammy, so I'm not even changing, but I appreciate you.

How this is going one hundred percent on the wall so close to him like that, man, come on, he's gonna be a drinker.

Okay, okay, So we're gonna play that game.

Yeah, yes, yes, god, guy, let's go.

Let's go, my man.

Oh yeah, sat game.

So that's that's my boy.

That that he said he went to gold up.

Man it up with your brother.

Yeah yeah, the government.

Well that's good, it's good.

You know, I don't know, I don't know if you know.

Names no longer with us, but you know, man, that my brother.

Yeah yeah, did you know that?

Yeah, I'm almost of the roofs.

Well, I mean, he's not gonna have to drink, so yeah, but you have to just need a drink.

This is this is our drinking game.

We're gonna give you two choices.

Yeah, if you pick one, nobody drinks.

If you can't pick like you you say both, you say neither of them.

We all drink.

Well, you don't drink your this is you right there?

Nor is good?

Doesn't drink over?

Can you hold it?

Man?

I don't, but hold on?

What are you drinking?

And can you drinking all the wrong ship?

Alright?

Cool?

Cool, You explained a lot better than that.

But the main thing about this game is whatever we're bringing up things that we just want you to bring up, any story, anything that you know encourages you to bring up a story or.

Or mention something about something you know.

So you ready, yep, NAS or l L.

Nothing nothing against NADS.

But I gotta go with l L for for.

A lot of reasons because NAS NAS took the queen ship, yes into orbit or out of orbit.

For l L put that queen ship into orbit.

Starts between L and so I got I always got it.

Like my first the first time I ever saw l LL, I was in high school.

I was cutting class and my schools around the corner from Fifth Avenue and that diamond shop Van Cleef and Arpels.

Like anybody go to Van cleefand all pells you spending money.

It ain't it ain't nothing.

It ain't Canal Street Diamonds.

That's some other ship.

So I'm stilling.

Yep, I'm standing in front of Van Cleef and ll pels me and my boys, and this red audi pulls up like it was in slow motion like in a movie.

Then the doors open up like in a movie, and then all the sweed smoke comes out.

And then first it was E Love, el El's boy that he came out one side was like shit, e Love, and then slowly came out the driver.

See it comes l big chains and everything, and we're standing there like kids, like oh shit, and you know he gives up.

They're like what up, little dudes, And it just goes into the vanklet and I was like, yo, that ship is a rap star.

That is a star.

This is this is I need love LLL.

I'm bad L.

You know you see that pull up.

You're not gonna you know, na, this is another level.

But LL is that first?

Like superstarted from Queens.

Yeah yeah, wait, you're not supposed to drink.

No drink anyways, he volunteered for the job or lost Boys.

Oh man, Queens Queens Queens Queens Queens.

So Frederie used to be my barber.

I heard that and he had dreads back then.

Yep, your barber when you had the Heights of Faide FREDROI was my barber.

Sticky was in school with me, freaky tief.

I'm not mistaken piece live right because I used to live in the South Side too.

Oh wow.

I moved around a lot, so I think ty.

I used to live right behind Baisley, so I think Holly close to me.

I would see him all the time.

Me and mister Cheeks have the same day, wow, on the same year.

So y'all gonna have to drink Okay.

Yeah, yeah, that's cheers.

Knew I knew that.

I knew that was going get me describing both of you.

I can't, I can't do it, okay, beating nuts so kidn't play?

How are you gonna put them to again?

These guys?

That makes the questions the Colombian and Dominican.

It's the cocaine section over there.

Well, first of all, I gotta I have to put it to kids and play.

They're they're like my my o gs, you know, like I meet betnuts after the fact, and I love all the beat nuts suff shouts the least juju.

I love that stuff.

But if it weren't for Kidd and play A, I wouldn't have been on that n w A tour because they were on the tour first.

And it's like, well, you gotta bring kwalm.

Uh.

The first film I was in, well, the only film I was in was this movie called Class Act.

Yeah, and I had a.

I was supposed to be one of the lead parts in the in the film, but then I got beat out by this guy, by the comedian.

Dougie d Dougie Dougie Dog Dougie doug But I still.

They still, you know, they insisted that I at least have a part in the movie, so I got given to the Kid and play Man.

Those are my Those are like my big brothers.

Speak to them almost every day.

So it's like, yeah, shout out to them, shout out to both, but shout outs.

To be nuts for sure, for sure, Eric B or Coogie or Garry being rock Kim DJs for Oho, oh man, we'll.

Give you a story.

Yes please, that's why we do this.

DJ Polo knocks on my door, open the door, said, I got my friend with me.

We're gonna hang out.

So incomes and let's see if you know who this guy is.

So in comes through my door.

Ron Jeremy, the porn guy.

I just saw something about he's an extraded So Jeremy Jeremy walks into my house with DJ Polo.

I did not put this together.

This is the weird sh and he was like, yo, you want to hang out?

And I was like, hang out?

Where ware y'are two going?

He said, you already knew who Ron Jeremy was.

Yeah, who didn't know Ron from the nineties.

I mean, Sonny definitely knew who he was.

I would have pulled up and didn't even saying like this is you said, I would have pulled out.

I would have pulled up wherever where we're run going, you're pulling out.

So he was, and he was like, Paulo was like recipes in my bro Polo.

Paulo was like, here's my boy, Ronnie.

We're about to go out, and I'm like, all right, Ronnie.

So we get in the car are and we started going to party after party, and every party we went to it.

Was like the porno Hall of Fame.

Man, and I'm just sitting there like, oh, that's homegirl, that's homegirl, and like we were just going to like the wildest one stars I personally, but you yourself.

We didn't say.

And if y'all knowing Jeremy was, you don't know what he did?

Yes, I need to look that party and y'all still know who he was at Yeah, hey lady soe, So then you know we it was just a wild night.

But Polo was that type of guy that he was just he was just a funny guy.

Man.

It was just a cool guy to hang out.

He on the other and he's just like mass serious man likes you don't if you don't know Eric, you don't know what you're about to get.

And the crew around Eric, you know, if you don't know these guys, it's like, you know, it might be snakes on a plane.

You don't know what's gonna happen.

So y'all gonna have to take a drink because Okay, now rock him or Coolgie Rap?

Couldie Rapp?

Okay said that fast?

Okay, Well I bet you rob him?

Even say Coolie Rap?

Pretty sure?

Okay, pretty sure?

Because g Rap.

I think g Rapp is probably, if not the greatest rapper I've ever heard, one of the top three ever ever, like ever, ever, ever, ever, Like I remember you probably remember the United States of America.

We'll say this roller Rink and queens, and I remember going to.

I remember because he's from around my wife, so you know, we all know the same people and all this stuff.

And I remember she was performing.

He had a record out, I'm Fly and it's a demo.

It's a demo.

Changed my life, those two records.

So if anybody doesn't know about USA roller Rink, that's where I got my start.

Me master A's father mc s we got our start there, like on rap battles and contests and all those kinds of queens.

Yeah, now from.

Just so, but every Sunday night, anybody would perform there, like anybody one DMC madonna New Edition.

Could you wrap DJ Polo, every brack can Every Sunday night, you catching somebody if you're able to survive that Sunday night, because it was all survival in there, you you might not make it out.

A lot of cocaine, a lot of bullets, a lot of a lot of knives.

Don't let don't let like that, crew ball Busters, Crew come through with the zoo will be there like there's some other other ship.

So ball it was a crew called the ball Bus.

I was just playing it was the name of the crew.

So back then they wasn't thinking it wasn't on our wave plane.

Yeah, there was no pauses.

They were they're coming with the ball buses.

Pause, boy, change the name.

So so you have she gets on stage.

Before she gets on safe, all these girls are around, and I remember hearing these girls from around the way.

He was like, I don't know who he think he is.

Used to call him Abdual Back then, I don't know abdu think he is.

He ain't.

He ain't even that fly.

I would never don't.

I don't know.

I don't I ain't even working with him.

So he gets on stage and had on his leather leather suit and he starts doing I'm Fly and he's rhyming, and the girls is just like sitting there like.

And he's handing the girl's roses while he's rapping.

And then he goes into giving it's a demo, and he pulls out nots of money.

He starts throwing it in the cloud, and all I remember is the girls going, oh, I'm going to fuck him.

I'm going to fuck him.

I'm like, yo, I'm like, gee, Rapp, you know what I'm saying.

So that was one of my first interests of seeing how people act to somebody who who who's a superstar or who's becoming a rap star.

And I think ge style.

Between Rock, Kim, Kane, and Giva I called him the Three Horsemen their styles into wolf and they created what we considered modern lyricist raps.

But I know for a fact talking about him talking to Kane, I know for a fact that everybody watched Grapp.

G rap spit a rhyme.

Somebody's gonna be like, oh, I gotta get a better rhyme than that, because g Baptists came through, you know so, and one of the greatest records to me pull it up is over the Big Daddy came Robby's Kane and g rapped back to back, going back to back.

Probably g raps rhyme is probably one of the best rhymes ever.

You know, he goes in, so I'm gonna have to I'm just gonna I'm automatically and he's from Queens, He's from around my way, So I'm.

Gone with no disrespect to Rob Kim.

I wrote, I love rock him right there next to the grapp but I gotta go with you at first, but.

JA can ring too.

Run DMC or APM D oh see EPM D I love because how Eric.

Was making those I love Eric Sermon as a producer like I love him as a producer, and I love that vibe that they would bring him.

But I'm always going to give it to run DMC over everybody.

You could say, run DMC and running m C and running It's always going to be run DMC because without run DMC, wouldn't We would have never had no MTV play.

We would have never been outside of New York.

We would have never had clothing endorsements.

We would have never spent all our moneys at Benny's.

And Coliseum on fat rope chains anti Yeah, exactlyt Yeah, we would have the bubble Gooses with the V's, the the Cagos, the Gazelles.

They they took hip hop out of looking like earth winding fire.

Think about it, and there's no dis to Yeah, they had to dress like what they saw.

Yeah.

Other artists at the time, like disco artists, funk artists, they figured if we dress like that, we will be accepted.

We're running them.

See what the first people belay.

We don't need to be Yeah, we don't need to be accepted, We just need to be respected.

You understand what I'm saying.

So they came through and they said, you don't gotta like us, forgive us respect, you know what I'm saying.

So always running them, seat always and I And I'm gonna look at any rapper, anybody who knows hip hop is about a hip hop that won't say run DMC first.

I'm like, I'm looking at y'all go crazy.

Somebody else could be your favorite group personally, but you but you gotta yeah, you gotta give it.

I'm talking about to this day.

To this day, I wish I wish you could be on a stage because it's a rare thing now and watch Run and d come out and perform.

Like right now.

The looks on people's faces from the artists, like every artist on the show will pile up on the side of the stage.

Like shit, you know what I'm saying.

Grown up kids, they'd be in an audience like they're like mega rock stars when they decide to get together and do like once every five years or whatever, they'll do it, and I respect the fact that there's no more run DMC without a jam master Jay.

Yeah, like they don't kind of do shows.

At first, I used to hurt me, but you know I got to see them somewhat on the rock stadium.

Yeah yeah, yeah, they went together.

But I do kind of like fail them both where you know, there's kind.

Of a lot of DJ that can replace jam messages.

Yeah, man, I failed them, but I do want to see them together on more hours.

The next one, large pro q ten.

Damn man, y'all gonna have to drink, man, But let me break that down.

Then Large Pro, especially being from from pretty much the neighborhood, I think Large Pro helped the usher in an era where the beats were like there was no more water down beats, you know what I'm saying.

It was like main source, main sauce was ship, you know what I'm saying.

And then you had, you know, from from the NAS album to just different things that he was doing, Like you had to respect like he was he was mastering a SB twelve hundred man.

And but then I look at Tip.

What I what I admired the most about Tip is Tip was is a master producer.

But when he was doing the Tribe album, he never made it about him producing the stuff.

It always said produced by Tribe called Quest.

So you didn't think Tip was that master producer until he started doing like you know, we thought yeah right, yeah, yeah, so yeah, and Ali was doing this thing too, but but I'm saying, and Ali snow doesn't Yeah.

Yeah, definitely, we thought he was just an MC.

Yeah.

And so so when Tip started doing like cookling Dodgers and nas and and all the other stuff, You're like, yeao, hold up here, and and it's just like, I just think both both have a framework that's just amazing.

And I could I can't put one over the over.

Drink drink drink salut Pete Rock or per Man.

Oh I won't drink to that one too was out the way because Pete.

What I love about Pete Rock.

First of all, me and him love comic book So when we talk, we only talk about the whole.

Yeah, we boths and toys.

Yeah, so we collect comic books.

So so we have that in common.

But Pete's a master at the soul and the jazz, the obscure soul and jazz sample, I don't think nobody can do okay, and I can get technical right now, the what they call filter rank where you filter out the temple and you just hit a baseline.

And that was some real like like you listen to Troy or or like King King of Rock up down with the King Remix or just certain certain records his When you listen to his production, it's like you're looking into the ocean.

Man, It's like some deep shit.

It's like it's layers to it.

And I love Pete for that.

Primo is the chop king, the king, like you will never be able to chop like Primo, and yeah that and like he finds these chops and and I love Primo for it because that's how when I was producing my first album, that's what I was doing, Like nobody was really chopping like that.

So like records like the Rhythm and other records, I was doing the chops, but Primo was taking it, took it to a whole other level and just took one sound and tuned it and chopped it and made it a thing like.

What's the kicking the door?

For example, pump that joint.

Is I put a spell on you and you listen to the record, it's like a nice bounce to it.

But the way he took those different stabs, and then it's all about the beasts that he programmed under it.

And what I loved about Primo is he never let up.

He never conformed to new equipment.

He stayed on his MP, stayed on it, but his nine fifty.

And that's what gave it the grit.

As other like new machines started coming out, prem always stuck to that, so preame and.

Pete apples and oranges.

Pream got that grit.

He got that depth.

So I can never put anything up against each other.

Okay, here we did analog or digital.

Analog, then you switch it to digital because you think about this, you know, for those that don't understand the analog or digital, A lot of people from this Jenner for the last two generations only no digital.

You know, a CD if that's the oldest thing you may know as a CD.

Now you know what you hear on your phone and now you got things like looseless and atmost and all this other stuff that's supposed to make your stuff sound crispy and nice.

But from my era and back then, we had to we were recording the tape.

The tape makes, for lack of a better term, the tape makes the sound thicker.

That eighto weight is going to punch you in your whole chest and crack you in half.

Because that analog sound, there's a beef to it, and like analog equalizers and different controllers, there's like a knock that you cannot replace with digital.

Also, there's and I'm getting kind of technical, if you play a record and you play a CD playing back to back, the record sounds stronger, The record sounds thicker, there's a depth to.

It, and.

Yeah, it's like it's Christmas nice.

It's like, yeah, think about what the CD is.

The CD was created for classical music.

The very first CD record it was either it was definitely a classical record.

And then the very first pop CD record was like an Elton a Billie Joel record and the only soul in Japan because they wanted it was that was their technology.

It was never intended for hip hop at all at first.

So you have that.

But the analog there's an there's a hiss in the analog.

There's a noise that most ears will never hear, but it makes it.

It gives it a different thing.

So I'm always gonna go with animal log and I know I'm getting super technical on everybody.

No, He's like, just got hurry up.

What I like to do is I try to do as much analog as I can, or as much low level digital as I can, and then transfer it to digital, so at least I have some of that wear and what I what I'm producing.

That We had Quick on the show and he and well, I don't think he said it on the show, but I've heard him say before that analog absorbs the energy in the room.

Yes, and that cannot be replaced with digital.

Quickest, hands down one of the greatest producers ever.

Like I remember being in the studio back working on something for jay Z and Quick was in there.

He was doing I don't know if this record ever came out, but he redid a Madonna record Justify My Love, and he did a jay Z record called Justify My Thug.

I think it's called I don't know if if it ever came out.

It is on the back elbm Okay.

So Quick was working on the record at the time and I was watching him how he was laying down his stuff and he was like laying like three snaires at a time, four kicks at a time.

I was like, Yo, what the hell you doing?

He's like, Yo, I gotta I gotta make it feel like analog, So I gotta like double and triple it up so it could just punch people in the face.

And I never could.

I know that.

I mastered a lot of things, but I'm always a student, So I'll sit back in any producer session and just pete.

I'm not gonna jack them for this stuff, but I'm a peep how they get down.

And I really admired how quick was on his game like that, like he's always on his game.

So did we have to drink to that or did we not?

No?

I said, Okay, Mike Geronimo or World Flush and you, oh, you killing me.

They're gonna drink because I think they both represent between they both present.

They represent Flushing queens and Flushing.

When I was growing up, Flushing was half.

Black.

No, no, no, no.

When I was like when I was a little kid, Flushing was half black, half Italian.

Okay, they call it white flight.

Italians moved out the you know, blacks moved in a little bit more, but then out of.

Definitely Haitian, Jamaicans, we were all in it together.

And then.

Started you started seeing it in spurts, Chinese, Korean.

But that wave got bigger and bigger and bigger.

So by the time the nineties came, what you thought was a black neighborhood or predominantly black neighborhood.

I'm talking about perfect example, Bland Projects.

You go up in the Bland Projects in the eighties, it's black.

You go there right now, all Chinese, all like you never.

Think of Main Street period.

Yeah, Main Street going in from Roosevelt going into to Main Street.

Chinese food in the world, Main Street, and and that Roger Yeah, y yeah, it's kind of like they got places.

That's nice out there.

Yeah, they got places.

So you have you have the Bland, you have Pomanac, you have what's the co Street from the name of the three projects forgot.

Yeah.

But but when I was a kid, it was predominantly black, and now it's predominantly Asian and and and the community is so different.

Once that busy Bee Mall Cane, you know, busy Bee Mares on.

Main Once that came, you started to see you it was like a gentrification of a neighborhood.

And now you go into that.

If I knocked every one of y'all out and I drop y'all in the middle of Flushing Queens, you would think you were in Hong Kong somewhere like no lot, because every sign is in Chinese, the signs, all the signs of every sign, all the stores, no way, the police, yeah, the police officers everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they were neighborhood.

Yeah.

I don't I don't know if it's racist.

I'm not going to say call it racist at all.

It's just a culture.

It's a different culture.

And when they moved to like you know what I mean, and then they so if it's like you always use Haitians, so it's like just supposed a bunch of Haitians move there, then they take.

Over originally yeah, supermarkets.

Yeah yeah.

Is it a race like me, you can't go into that part of town?

No, no, no, no.

I don't think it's that.

But I believe that the Asian culture is very close knit.

I think every ethnic culture at its core is very cold, close knit.

So when you're not from that culture, they just gonna be like, all right, see what he's doing, and that's it.

Yeah exactly.

And then you know, but but anybody from Queens and from that neighborhood, we're in and out of that neighborhood at all times.

So it's like, you know, it's just it's a mixture of cultures.

And I think a lot of people got to understand that that, especially food, food brings every culture together.

Music, food and music.

But there's no Black neighborhood without Asian food.

You know what I'm saying.

Don't work?

Yeah, you get me to ask ole smoke weed.

Yeah, you can get kicked out of some yeah, but yeah, it was universe, so it's not Yeah, we I mean food and food and music brings everybody together.

Man, it's it's amazing.

Okay, NPC two thousand XL or n PC two thousand XL mp.

MPC.

I don't even know what you said are I'm like, yeah, you're talking about money.

Nah, And I know people like Alchemists and and who else does a SR Tim Timbo does SR I believe he does SR Rizza that's as R.

No.

Sorry, you're never getting me to go past the MPC two thousand excel.

Okay, Big Daddy Kane on jay Z.

Come on, stop man, I'm picking one.

I'm picking Kane because I believe without Caine that might not.

Be a Jay jaz was.

I agree, Yeah, I agree, saying.

So even though Jay and Jazzo were running around but at the same time as a Caine.

But Cain.

Correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe Kine gave Jay platforms put him on singles.

You know when when when the nineties era is rushing ushering in and we're getting away from from the style that he was using with with Jazzo.

It was putting him in a platform.

And and I think I heard Kane say this recently.

Kine was trying to get him a deal and couldn't get him a deal.

But I think.

Cain allowed people to know and respect Jay at another level and then Jay took it from there.

So I got it.

I got Yeah, Kine in general, just on what do you different in hip hop?

Yeah, you have to give him that like Jay might not take it there like a lot of people might.

If not, Kane takes it there.

You could understand the impact of Kin.

To this day, rappers mentioned Kane, Jay's mentioned King, people mentioned Kane to this day.

Two rappers that always get mentioned the most to me is like a Caine and a slick Rick Kane, slick Rick ll rock Camp.

Yeah, those four get mentioned by anybody and you can say their name and nobody's going to be like, what are you talking about?

You know?

So, so I gotta give it to Kane at all times.

The big shouts to Jay Malcolm xel Marcus Garvey.

So you're not supposed to put them too against each other because what they're supposed to do is be together on and so y'all got drink on that, right, that's right?

Yeah, Illmatic on thirty six Chambers.

That's kind of a drink too.

That's going to be a drink.

But no, thirty six Chambers came up with the same pretty much like a year before.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's the same era.

That's why they went on tour together.

I mean, because yeah, so do you gotta drink to that?

But I'm gonna say this, Illmatic showed because kind of like before Illmatic.

Artists like myself, we were told that we had to make these radio or waded down records in order to go anywhere.

You were actually told that, yeah, one hundred percent label management or who both seventeen eighteen.

Yeah.

Like for example, like say I used my record the rhythm.

Okay, all right, but we were told to chill it, chill it out, So you got Illmatic comes out and it blows and it's like, yo, we could just be us.

It's not a radio driven sounded out but still you want to play this on a radio.

Yes, it's a groundbreaking and he's just being he's just being in them c just being here.

Yes, so.

That's groundbreaking into itself and he's from Queens.

Then you got thirty six Chambers to me, thirty six Chambers told me that hip hop is at a certain place because anything goes now.

Thirty six Chambers, you just got records.

You got a dudes rhyming on a record.

You know, there's no real main hook that you just repeating everything.

It's no poppy hook or nothing like that.

It's just dude going in bar, foot ball, football and it's working.

Let me ask you, how does it go backwards in that way?

How does hip hop go back to its essence?

Because I think I think two things happen.

It's gonna sound weird.

But when white kids got into rap, they got into rap at the age of your m t V raps anything.

Before that, then they may know what they may not know.

It's it's a toss up.

But the white audience really got into it because they watched MTV all day long.

Rap hip hop was rebel music and culture yeah and every yeah, exactly.

A whole.

So they wanted to rebel against it.

Parents.

So the harder the rap record was, that's the record that they were playing.

So they started with NWA.

Fuck the Police, Mom, you know, and like, you.

Know, there's like what are you listening to?

You know, and that's where you know, I'm pretty sure al Gore's wife's tip of Gore her kids was playing in n WA or Public Enemy or something, and she didn't like it, and so she ushered in that parental advisory there.

You know, there was a time that you had to You couldn't buy a rap record.

You couldn't even pull it off the shelf anymore.

You had to ask for it behind the counter after one part.

So flash forward to we got We Have Wu Tang and acts like that.

That's just rebel music.

You know, you playing Protect your Neck and you're in some suburban household and your mom is listening to Elton John and you start throwing that protecting neck, going real out or met h d.

Man and then the mobs like you don't listen to things like this, and it's like that's and now you flash forward, go to a Woo Tang show.

Tell me what you see in that audiences forty forty five year old white guys.

That was like that was that was kids?

Yeah, yeah, with the kids like we whole bitches.

Ye yeah, It's like I was like, oh, ship and you need to pal with girl.

No, no, it's it's real and it's worldwide.

And and that's when I understood.

I think up to this point, hip hop was trying to find its voice.

You know.

Hip hop's when it started.

We were rapping over disco beats.

You know, we we we were doing our break beats in the park or whatever.

But our records had to reflect the popular disco record.

And then it was the you know, electoral records.

And then you know the house record.

Yeah, but then but run back to one m C.

They told us now we can be we could be us.

But then they did ero Smith the rock record.

Well, because I think that hip hop and like punk rock were in the same yeah, yeah, you know, but I'm saying we were.

Also, we also thought that we had to make a record that, for lack of a better term, that white.

People would like.

So for example, crossover.

Yeah, like we thought we had to make that.

Some artists went all the way with it, like for example, let's take salt pepper, push it, push it real good.

That was a joke.

They wasn't serious about making records.

They're in the studios bugging out.

They're bugging out one because of Miami Base.

Yo, yo yo, that's fucked those No no, no, it's not.

It's not a clown to no, no, no, but listen, listen, this is what it was.

New Yorkers had.

New Yorkers had a chip on their shoulder.

We didn't expect anything that wasn't Liverpool.

Yeah, if it wasn't Liver Cool, it wasn't Kim or anything.

Were not with it.

And you gotta understand, like even from when I first started the lyrical content of Miami Bass, there was no like for us.

It wasn't like we're not trying to rhyme like that, you know, And I'm gonna take it all the way back to early Miami Like I would come down here and I.

Would perform at Strawberries.

I would perform at pack Jam.

Yeah.

So so like Uncle Luke brought me to the pack Jam and I would get on stage and I'd be rocking it and they would rock with me.

But after my show they would be like bring on.

And I'm thinking, and I'm pappen you think you know?

And they poka and they thought that was cool.

But I would always I come to Miami, I'm the opening that.

It ain't no, it's whoever is shaddy, whoever is going, whoever is killing?

Yeah, like whoever was rocking that base, that's that was that ship and you had to respect it.

And I think when it came to Salt and Pepper and Push It, they didn't get it.

And they did a show and I think I think it was shoddy actually was on the show and Shoty wipe the floor with them, like there he came out and they was like.

Yo, and so as a shoe.

They were like, we can make a record like that and watch us blow up too, because it ain't not and they ain't saying nothing.

We're gonna make a record like that.

So they made Push It.

Look Yeah, and it super blew up and then they so it wasn't necessarily clowning.

It was a.

It wasn't clown It almost was a parody, but it wasn't.

But it was also saying, can can we do this too?

Because we got to understand that there's a whole other wave out here.

It's not just about the five boroughs.

We go down south.

We gotta respect this base, we gotta respect that shot in that time frame, they were respecting the South at the time, they weren't.

They weren't.

I think it took time to do that, you know, Like for me, I can say the same thing, like when we were on that nw A tour and one thing about me, like I said, I'm always going to be a student.

So we're like, who's on the tour and it was like somebody named too Short?

The fuck is too Short and it was like poison plan.

I'm like, who the hell is that?

So in order so I don't I didn't know poisoning was on that to that's crazy.

So for me, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna shit on them and any anyway.

So when I did this, I called the store and I bought Poison Clan records.

I bought Too Short records, and I remember that before the tour bus came, we sat up all night and listened to every one of they records, like I get it, I don't get it.

I get it, I don't get it, but we respect it.

They putting records, even cats, even from like Detroit area.

There's a rapper named e Sean from Detroit and that he's like the was the king of Detroit.

So we pulled out, We're going to Detroit.

We need to know what is booming is.

We need to know what it is on the West coast.

We need to know what these things are.

And I think by my generation we started to understand that.

I think the generation before me it was just like what these dudes doing down here, They ain't really they're not really doing it.

So I think it was a learning curve.

You know, now you know, we know what it is.

Now.

It's like.

Can't pull up, you can't pull up down here without without playing at this.

Especially what they were doing with like those triplets on the eight aw eights and those triplets you know they were that was like a.

Revolutionary thing that.

That's incorporated in music now, Like you can't have half of the stuff you can't You couldn't have trapped with out?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah for the strip club.

I mean, I don't doubt it was in the strip level.

But yeah from Tampa, like his his ship was crazy man.

Yep, sure you got it?

Producing or rapping?

Is this a drink?

Still a drinking?

Take a drink?

Okay, okay, yeah, remember producing for me, it's gonna sound weird, might sound corny.

I dream about producer aout.

I dream about producing, like I have dreams that I produce so and so.

Today I produce such and such.

And when I when I have those dreams, when I think about it, I think about it at all times.

I love speaking to other artists.

I love being and I think the most.

Vulnerable like personal type settings when you're with an artist is when they're creating.

You know, you get to know people, and you know you might you know, become friends with people.

Are just know more about them and the type of producer I am.

I'm not the kind of guy that's like, send me some beats.

I'm kind of I'm not good at that.

But if I hung out with you for a day and I listened to what you listen to, and I listened to your conversation and blah blah blah.

I'm coming to the studio the next day with a beat.

I'm like, yo, remember when you were talking about X y Z, I made a beat.

That's there's the difference between a producer and a person who makes me.

Yeah, but that's the you know, that's the kind of producer I am.

And I know that's a rare thing now now and and but that's how I choose to produce.

So when everybody, anybody says, send me some beats, I'm like, let me sit with the person if I can't.

Right, That's that's a real productive producer.

But as an MC, as a writer, as as as an MC, A lot of times people try to put an age on that and they try to say you can't rap past this point, or you shouldn't be rapping past this point.

But I always thought and MC is somebody who expressed was what they were going through, their experiences, their feelings, their thoughts, and they have the talent to write it out freestyle or whatever it is.

They had that talent to spit that out.

Those thoughts and those feelings, those expressions never stop, you know, at any age.

So for me, like you know whether I put a record out or whether or not.

I'm I'm in my studio writing a rhyme, I'm saying around, I'm doing something, saying.

Something in my mind.

Whatever.

So and when I produce a record, ten times out of ten, I made my own song to that beat.

That I produced.

I may be giving you the beat right right, right right, but in my mind it was this was a quame record.

I heard you say earlier that you give the hooks.

So those books, I can't make a beat without making a song, or at least making a hook.

Now give you a hook that I probably would say, because we're two different types of artist.

So I try to tap into your wavelane.

But at the same time, it's still from that same approach, like if I was writing my own record.

You gotta drink, Okay, yeah, I think they drink.

Are you you to drink three times dope or Red Had king Finn?

Oh shit, that's a good one man shit shit ship.

What are you wonting for.

You're gonna have to take a drink.

But I'm gonna tell y'all some stories about Red Had Kingpin and three times dope, So three times dope, I'll go to redhad king Pin.

First, well, my parents got divorced, my father remarried, and we moved out of East Elmhurst to Inglewood, New Jersey, Jersey.

Shout out to Inglewood, New Jersey and Dwight Marrow High School.

I'll telling you I went to a million high schools.

So I'm at the whitemorrow and all my friends is like, you gotta meet all boy Dave.

You're gonna love Dave like Dave.

Like, yeah, you're gonna love Dave.

So we go to Dave's house and Dave got kicked out of school.

He was a bad kid.

Dave's Redhead.

So you know, he's the first dude that I hung out with in Jersey when I moved, you know, and I was kind of pissed, like, yo, I took me out of my element.

I'm trying to make an album.

You know, all my people in Queens and here I am in Inglewood, New Jersey.

I don't know nobody, but I mean Redhead and me and Red Click Red.

And when I tell you, man, like we were the crew man, like we.

Would just we.

Would be doing wolh like we were really wilding out in Jersey making music and the even funnier thing is my boy heard my demo demo to the song.

Well this might be part of your next question, but so stop me if I if I'm going on and he and he was like, yo, you gotta let my mom hear your record, okay.

And I was like, why I'm gonna let your mom here my record?

He said, I let my mom here Dave's record too.

I'm like, all right, whatever.

So I go to his house.

I pull up at his house.

It's a straight up mansion.

I didn't even notice.

I see the magnum p I Ferrari in the front on on bricks, no tie, no, no.

I see a Rose Royce.

This is in the neighbor in another pocket of the neighborhood.

I'm like, yo, what is this?

So I open the door.

I go to the door, and the butler come out.

Butler come on in, see exactly.

And then there was winding stairs and the mom comes down downstairs in her.

Like robe and ship, and I'm like, yo, body time.

Now like some of you know, extravagant shit is nobody.

I'm like, that's Sylvia Robinson from sugar Hill Records.

I'm like, yo, if it wasn't for this lady, we wouldn't have no rap records out her and her brother.

Wow.

So she was like, yeah, I remember with your friend Dave red Head, and you know he got a good record and I heard heard your record the Rhythm and I love that.

And I'm starting a new label and I want you all to be on the label.

So I was like, oh, where I get to be on the label with my best friend.

He said, yeah, I got this other group, New Tribe.

I was like, word, new Tribe, y'all look it up.

Kid named Trench, Vinnie and KG.

Of course that was original.

Yeah, so it's gonna be.

I forgot Naughty Me and Redhead on this new label called Bone of Me Records.

And I'm like, wait, that don't even sound hip hop exactly exactly Bone on Me.

That's well the contract.

So at that same time, I know I'm going off on a tangent.

But you told me to tell the story, telling me story.

And he got to smoke at me.

So I'm telling a whole lot of stuff.

Let's go.

So at that same time, I.

Handed my demo to Herbie love Bug, and I my father was like, you should let one of his friends hear the demo.

His wife work at Sony, So literally, Miss Robinson gives me a contract.

It is literally two pages long.

It's like some words in the front and in the back is the signing page.

Then a couple of weeks later, Herbie says, Jo Atlantic wants to sign you up, sending you the contract that's three hundred and fifty pages long.

Then my pop's friend calls me.

Directors like interested in your album.

We want to send you a contract.

I didn't tell my pops.

I didn't tell my pops about none of this.

So I'm walking home from school every day with three contracts in my book back and I'm sitting baking on it.

I don't even know what to do.

But I knew what not to do was the Sylvia Robinson contract, because I was like, two pages, anything could be changing.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm like, this don't even look right.

I mean, you know it might be though it wasn't the only company that was really think about it.

Yeah, but I didn't like the name Bone of Me.

I didn't think it was going to take off.

I wanted ye, but had no tires.

It was.

So so I didn't I didn't know what to think.

I didn't know if that was going to go overwhelm.

So then I looked at the legacy of Atlantic Records.

You know, some of my favorite artists were on Atlantic, So I was like, yo, I think I want to go there, and I know MC light was there, but I would have been the first rapper signed directly to Atlantic Records.

So I was like, yeah, let's do it.

And so so you saying this for yourself.

Your parents are not involved in this.

My parents who did they end up?

But they have no they don't know.

Divorce lawyer looked at my record contract, so that's what shows you what was going on.

It was like it was still the divorce was you know, it was like my parents had gotten divorced.

My pops just got remarried.

But he was like, I know, a loyalist.

She was just a divorce lawyer.

Yeah, he just did the divorce and you know, and the divorce wasn't no ugly thing.

So it was like, let's do that.

And my moms was with it.

So they technically had to sign the contract because I was young.

I was, you know, sixteen, so so they had to sign the contract.

But my choice was to go with Atlantic a because it was through Herbie.

Herbie was you know, that was back in Queens.

That was my home crew.

Then I didn't know what was gonna go happened with the Boname stuff.

Dave ended up read it ended up with Teddy Riley, so that he wasn't even gonna be I wasn't even gonna be on the label with my boy, and so it was just it is what it is.

And I don't know if I don't know if Bonamy ever put out New Tribe.

I know New Trip had an album, but I don't know if it was on that label.

I gotta ask KG if that was on that label.

But you know what they ended up turning into, so clearly Bonam didn't turn it into anything.

Also bone me, Yeah, so but then you got three Times Done.

Yeah, you know they could have put TI just I don't know what they was doing.

They probably was in the middle of changing because they you know, they would think about sugar Hill Records sold a lot of records, so they had they their paper was right, and they had everybody's publishing.

So but with three Times Dope, so three Times Dope, I'm already out, I'm already established, and they're like the first artists that I get real cool with that's not from my area area.

If not, they're from Philly.

So I would stay at the rapper Est.

I would stay with him and his mom.

Yeah, man I would stay at Yes, his house.

Yes, would stay at my house.

His mom would call me son.

My mom would call him son.

You know what I'm saying.

So it's a different thing between me and them because Red is a part of my foundation and and and me my trying to make it where yes, Woodie and and and Chuck they are a part of like just artists with deals, just having fun together.

So y'all gotta drink.

You gotta know.

So Lloyd Banks March.

Pharaoh Munch because he's as a rapper or what were we talking about?

So I give it to Pharaoh Manch because Para Manch is probably one of the illest rappers ever.

And I think Banks is one of the illest rappers ever.

But because me and Manch went to school together, Me and Mancha.

Was Alba Boxer.

Oh yeah, he was dope.

He's He's also into the same things I'm into, like collecting noise and all that stuff.

So we go to comic Con together, we're always on panels together, so it's always that that that connection.

Yeah, I have never to this day, though we've sold over a million records, I've never met Banks.

Really, I've never been in the rule with him.

I've never seen him.

I've never had any conversations with him, So I don't know if he picked the beat.

I believe shot Money, Excel and Fifth pick the beat.

I could see that.

And when they recorded the record, they were on the tour, so I had to turn everything in.

I had to go to a studio, lay the beat down, put it, you know, in tracks, and then send it to London Wow, where Banks did his vocals.

So I was never I wasn't able to get I had something I wasn't able to get to London.

It was like a session that was going on.

They told me go to the studio on Tuesday, and we're recording on a Wednesday.

I was like, there's no way I was able to get.

So I couldn't really be the producer that I'm normally that I normally am.

And it's got to be how long ago.

This is two thousand and four, so twenty one years ago.

The classic record I've never met.

I've never met Banks.

I would love to, you know, love to meet him.

You got twenty one questions why you ain't meet Lloyd Banks?

Yeah, the drum line or coach Carter?

He worked on both, right, I never saw coach Carter drum line.

I know you'd be a foulon.

I tell you that.

What is Coach Carter about Samuel being about Coach Carter?

Is he like is he in the city coming into Colds with a young minority group of kids, losing season, losing team, and he overcomes them as young grown.

Men and educated in students and athletes.

There you go watch, I gotta watch that.

I've never I felt like it's like lean on me.

But with sports, that's exactly what it is.

That's agreed anology.

Colombo, colosseum all day.

I get you get ballets, you go there for a hundred dollars ballots you're talking about to t twenty eighty dollars.

You get shirtcash shirtcanes, you can get your chain, You get a picture.

You take a girl, you and your girlfriend dressed the same.

Y'all go to college and take the picture together looking crazy.

New Jack City or juice juice, aren't you the soundtrack of one of these.

No, no, I could have swore you on New Jack City soundtrack if I am.

I don't know it, but Juice, because Juice reminded me of people.

I actually knew an area in Harlem that I would actually hang out in.

So I feel like it was a connection where Nino Brown.

We all knew who our neighborhood Nino Browns were, but they weren't like Nino Brown.

You know what I'm saying.

It wasn't it was.

It was like a fantasize.

Yeah, it wasn't like but it wasn't too far off.

Yeah yeah, but right up, No, it was.

I'm sure it was a little bit.

Yeah, but it was very It was very like you ever used to watch the eighties or nineties movie about rapping but didn't have no real rappers, Like you.

Know what I'm saying.

It was.

We could understand it, but it wasn't exactly you know, I'm from everywhere.

You got cast like Preame and Fat Cat and you know Paul, all these cats is you know in Harlem.

Like we're seeing this in real life.

We're seeing that crack era ain't nothing to play with.

And when we're kids we're seeing it in real time, and we're seeing something like you come up to Harlem, you go to South Side, you going to basically you go different spots.

You see some things and you hear about some things that no movie has ever depicted.

So you watched you know Brown, It's like, all right, this is watered down.

This is water down life that we singing for real?

For real?

Where's something about juice?

It's like you always everybody got that crew.

They got that one kid and the crew.

That's like Bishop Tupac.

You know, there's that one you know, the one kid and the crew.

Like, oh, I wanted to try to try to get out of it.

It was a DJ trying to do his thing.

And they reminded me of my friends.

They reminded my Brooklyn friends, reminded me of my Queen's friends.

They reminded me of my Harlem friends.

And it was like I can relate to this where just like I couldn't.

I don't know, like, for example, I can ask a Cali dude was Minister Society, real was boys in the hood.

Real, I can't relate to me.

It's all a Hollywood thing, but for somebody that was really in that game.

I always wondered, like, look at this about American me and blood, like we didn't know which is what.

So yeah, diferent reasons though why we still didn't know which is what?

Track Masters or hit Man, my mom.

I want to say, I wanted to y to take a drink, but I think I drink anyway.

Y'all can take a drink.

But this is why, guys, let us go track masters for the most part.

First, let's go with my man Red Hot Love.

Of Tone Tone track Master Tone for those who.

Are Yeah, he was a blueprint for what I was trying to do at the time.

Him and Prince Marqui d from the Fat Boys were artists that became major producers.

Wow.

So when I'm in my between period trying to figure it out, Yeah, and he wasn't he was down here was.

Miami.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know super that that's my guy.

Man.

Man, So.

Looking at Mark, looking at Tone gave me the battery to say I can do that as well as well.

Yes, you know, if I just got to break through the barrier and I can get these records soul and I can do that too.

And Tom tried to sit me down, like yo, man, get off.

Stop rhyming on those beasts.

Take it from me.

Sell that ship the second time.

Somebody else tell you that.

No, no, no, Ron Anton, they both tell me at the same time, sell that.

So here you got Tone telling me that's track masters, Pope, Me and Pok' I'm loving how Pop makes his beat.

Poker is a focused dude.

He's all about his beat, super focused.

Then you got the hit man.

Ron is one of the hit men.

He's telling me the same.

Yeah, he's from my block and I'm listening to him.

I know D Dot, but at the same time, they both were rappers.

Two Kings in the Cipher, Yeah they were.

Yeah, he's the mad rapper.

But D Dot and Ron were in a group called Two Kings in the Cipher and it didn't work out the way they wanted it to work out, so they switched gears.

And I remember I would go up to Howard University.

I would see d I would see Ron, and they would have the MPs in the NPCs, in the in the.

In the dorm room.

They were getting there.

They were they were so so you know, that's how far back I go with them guys, all of them so so.

They Ron especially and Tone especially heavily influenced and Ron being a part of my resurgence into the music industry, and Tone willing to be a part of my resurgence.

I can't put one over the other.

I gotta, you know, I gotta give it to them.

And I love I just loved all their records.

There's no records that they made that I didn't know.

I didn't wrong.

I respect that.

So we're going to do one last multal Greig time slime.

Do you jump back back into that?

Okay?

Okay, all right, I was about to.

Give you a warning, but I'm not gonna give you a warning because he says, I lead the witness.

Loyalty or respect.

Respect, Okay, because with respect brings loyalty, and the people that are loyalty you will always be disloyal.

To you at some point when they don't get the same respect that you get.

Understand that, say that the people that are loyal to you don't get the same respect that you get, or feel that you're getting more respect to them than them, their loyalty will leave you.

So you always got to have respect because with respect, people understand.

And it's not wrong with this because There's another part to it.

People understand when you have respect that they should deal with you.

They don't have to like you, they.

Don't have to love you, they don't have to be loyal to you, but they know it means something to them and they'll do something for them if they deal with you because they respect you.

You understand when they just loyal to you, anything will happen.

I didn't want to tell you your girls cheating on you because I'm loyal to you and I like you.

I don't want you to kick me out.

You know something like that.

You know what I'm saying.

You wouldn't get all that kind of awareness.

But the respect thing is something different.

Now, what I do believe is.

With your respect, I'm about to sound like little Kim, what respect comes power.

With your respect, you bring about a certain level of power, and you can bring a long the people who are loyal to you and give them ways to come up right status.

Yeah, but you can't do that unless you have the respect.

A bunch of loyal people can be a bunch of loyal people in an aparkment in seven A and Baisley wishing the day came out because they all loyal to each other and they're just sitting around.

So so.

You got to have respect first, like you can't you can't buy furniture and you don't how the house.

So now let's talk the rhythm because we were in I've been wanting to know how you put this record together for Abosore Okay, okay.

So.

How does this come about?

So the rhythm shouts to my boy Tommel.

So, so we were living in this building complex.

Anybody in Corona, Queens knows this building called Dory Miller and we lived in Dory Miller fun Factor.

Across the street was a building called Metal Manor and most of most of main source lived in Metal man So, so.

Uh, tom El's father.

And if I want to figure out what Tom ELL's father looks like, does anybody know that show Family Guy?

Yeah?

Okay, the cartoon, Yeah, ok Who's the black guy on the Family Guy?

Cleveland Brown.

Tom El's father looked exactly like Cleveland Brown.

He looks like him, and he sounds, you know, exactly.

Think somebody took Tom Hill's father and made Cleveland Brown.

So when I tell the story, y'all can put Cleveland Brown in your head.

So, so, his dad used to have all these records, all these jazz records, all these different kind of records, and we'd be in there and and I'm looking at his records, and he would come and he every time I would go there, he would be going to work.

Okay, Tom, okay, crime, don't be touching my records.

Held leave and so soon as he close the door, like, don't see that record.

And I played so one record I played.

I put it on.

I was like, Yo, what is this.

I said, hold up, my dad just bought.

I said, I need that record.

He's like, yo, my dad is gonna kill I said, I need that record.

Man.

He said, well, I said, yo, Papa just went to work.

He don't he don't know what's going to be going.

He said, just wait, just wait.

So flash forward.

I knew how I wanted to use that record, and I did the whole beat in my head.

I use a piece of James Brown funky drummer, I use a piece of the staple singers, no, no, no, no no.

I knew I wanted to use that sample.

I didn't remember the name of the record.

I knew it was a Bob James record with a ladybug on the cover.

That's all I said, the Ladybug record.

That's what I called it.

So I'm gonna get that record.

So and I didn't remember an artist name either.

I just knew the Lady Bug.

So I thought about the best of the beat.

I wrote the rhymes, and then I called to him.

I was like, Yo, when's your dad going to work?

Because I had studio time.

So but you do didn't have the record?

No, I said, what time your dad going to work?

He's like six, I'm gonna be there six fifteen.

I went to his house, I said, give me my record.

I jacked the record, went to the studio because he worked over nights.

I went to the studio, sampled it and gave it, gave him back the record before before the record before his pops came home, before his pops even knew it.

That's how I got That's how I sampled that record and made the rhythm.

Jius.

I think I gave the record back.

I think I gave the record.

I can't so if I didn't give a record record, mister Waynam, I'm sorry.

I was hearing you or I was hearing you on a show right, and I believe it.

It was something like Uh, I wish I would have said things that I wish I would have said, or something like that, right, all things that like, Right, is there something that is there something that you wish you would have did?

Is this something that you regret?

Perhaps, well, back to back to what we were saying earlier, I wish I had a line of pokono.

You know what I'm saying, merch merch, And I wish I would have see.

I can't say I wish because I think I can say I wish I had somebody to teach me what I know now.

But at the same time, I don't have any any regrets because everything that happened to me, good and bad, allowed me to be at this podcast today.

Everything led up to this.

And I'm not I'm not glazing or nothing.

I'm telling y'all the truth.

Everything led up to this because this was a podcast that I've always wanted to be on.

This is your show.

Continue, I'm sorry, And and.

I had a list of goals, and this podcast was on the list of goals.

It wasn't and it wasn't like and it's on my studio wall.

I'll DM you a picture.

And and I know that we connected on the toy toy level.

Thing and everything.

We gotta speak about the toys.

But it wasn't no thing where it was like to be on your show.

Can I be able to show anything like that?

I wanted?

I wanted to earn a slot.

No, we requested you.

You didn't have to earn a slight already long ter.

Organically, Yeah, we're gonna make it, you know, like when we book guests, right this, this, this has been my most funnest time.

Right, Like, sometimes I go to the airport, right and a person will come up to me.

One person will know who I am, and another person won't, right, and they'll be like, well, the other person will be like, well who is you?

And I'd be like, I can't describe who exactly, Like if you don't know who I am, then your friend should tell you.

So when I was doing that, and when I was saying like, you know, up to the weeks of having you booked, and when I kept saying that whenever a person didn't know, I felt so enjoyed.

Weighed it down, like I was like, yo, this is you had the whole eraror like, and I was sitting there and I was like, I felt so good yea explaining to a person who didn't know I'm trying to tell you.

But yeah, yeah, so uh so you said you had no regrets.

Yeah, so this is no regrets man, because it's like I believe in I believe in that universal law, like everything happens all at once.

So it's like you gotta every mistake, every mistake you make leads to a future success, right, period, period.

You can go outside tomorrow, break your leg right.

I'm not wishing this on you.

You're trying to run a marathon.

Now, you can't run the manthon you do it, but you found out something crazy happened after Marilon marathon that.

Helped you and you couldn't make it in so but you was able to do something bigger.

Yeah, but you're.

Gonna run the marathon and you're gonna do all the way.

So so that's what I believe.

I just believe that everything leads to a point, you know, and and so I can never I don't look backwards.

The only thing, the only thing I look back on.

I will say this.

I say this regret.

I allowed management and record labels to tell me what hip hop was supposed to do and where hip hop was going, and I didn't pay attention to it.

So for example, yourself, Yeah, I'm not I'm not.

Listening to myself.

So I'll give you a perfect example.

Low end theory comes out question and fellow queens, We're in the studio making an album and it's you know, happy dancing type of hip hop, and then somebody brings the low end theory and they play it.

I'm like, this shit is the truth.

And then listening to somebody for management, that shit is never gonna work.

Oh, they're never gonna get on the radio with that.

Wow, they're never gonna go on tour with that.

They're never gonna get a Grammy with that.

And in my mind, I'm like, I am going in the wrong direction.

I saw it, you know what I'm saying.

So I'm literally cutting my own career short for not paying attention to where hip hop is going.

I know where it's going.

I'm only nineteen at the time, Like, I'm not in the clouds.

I don't see nothing, you know, I'm still on the train.

I'm in it.

I see that people are stopping to wear suits, stopping the suits and putting on the jabos and the brief and Broccolis and the Snowbeach or whatever I see it.

I know what's happening.

I know low heads, and I know what's going on.

And it could have been an easy transition for me because I could have implemented my thing in with it, because I'm of the age.

I'm not an older guy trying to look young.

But I'm not paying attention.

I'm not listening to myself, and I'm listening to people like you gotta put this singing hook, and you gotta people dance, and the an R and all this kind of stuff.

You gotta make it happy.

And then the same an R and this, which is funny when that that album, I'm not gonna say it didn't do well.

It's my third album called Nasty.

They did all right for the time, but it wasn't no low end Theory, you know what I'm saying.

It was yeah, yeah, exactly.

And then on top of that, so low in Theory comes out, then Nordy comes out, then Ill Manic comes out.

And then the an R sit me down and they're like, hey, we're just I think you should toughen it up a little bit, like you he said, you know what, you know, put some braids in that flat type people, you know, like they was literally they literally was telling me this, You're like, you know it was the tough of music.

Yeah, like start you know, maybe like there's some Tims in a baseball batch, ain't your cousin?

Yeah, yes, exactly.

And and at that time he was trying to rap.

So we was working, we was working on some stuff.

But but it was weird how the flip flop of these record labels was and you know, very interesting.

So that was probably my regret not listening to myself and not going with my gut.

Even though I'm never going to regret a record that I made, I'm going to regret that I didn't pivot when I had a clear lane.

To pivot, you know.

So, so like I heard ghost Face say recently, I don't know if it's recently, but.

He said that, you know, rapture half categories.

It should it should just be just hip hop, like it should be contemporary hip hop maybe maybe all you know, classic hip hop, maybe you know what I mean, new school hip hop.

Do you feel like you.

Created a genre of hip hop?

Because like when you look at look at your music and you look at of your career like it was non threatening.

Right now, you got people like par Real who made a whole career off.

Of like kind of like being non threatening.

And then there's others other people like you know, I would like to say Lupe Fiasco kind of like made his career like being non threatn and so on and so forth.

There's like a whole new version of Native Tongue.

But I feel like it started with you.

I think I think between me and Native Tongue.

So say, for example, my album came out two months before Three Feet High and Rise, so eighty nine.

You have these two two groups, Three Higher Wise and that's yes, and that really kind of like you know, the Jungle Brothers really ushered it in first, but day really yeah, beld it yeah, And you know.

This is a platinum album, this album that's killing it.

And I think with Dayli, they spoke to a certain audience, you know, like the afro centric you know, just like the audience, the rap audience that wasn't trying to be status quo.

But they weren't trying to be gangsters.

They were on their intellectual stuff.

They were on their straight hip hop stuff at the same time, no gimmicks it was just raw, like just them being them.

And I think I what I represented is more like the nerds and the geeks and all the dudes that were overdressed in school and you know, like.

Like I was the younger generation because you always had your cane and like an l like the jocks, and so you know, I represented that.

I represented, you know, the kids that may have of love hip hop but didn't fit in with that whole gangster say at all.

And I think that DNA spilled into a Kanye for sure, Like you'll see footage of twelve year old Kanye dressed like me, you know what I'm saying, and or Pharrell or you know, Pharrell will credit tried.

But I just think that still there's a lot of things that I've done.

I see.

There's a lot of even I know this for a fact, a lot of of ways that puff with maneuver, like as far as clothing and and and showman ship and stuff like that.

I know for a fact he got from what I was doing.

And then those those artists, that's another generation.

They begat another generation under.

So you have rappers out here now they don't understand that they still carry my DNA they may take its from something else.

But you know that was so I think.

Somebody, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like you like, motherfucker.

Yeah, no, no, trust me.

There's been a time there was these kids in New York called the Retro Kids.

This is like mid two thousands, and they were dressed like old school and they would have on pokad ice.

They were the flat tops, the whole nine.

This is like two thousand and five, two thousand six, Yeah, but that era.

Yeah, And I would walk down the street and I would see him.

Like, Yo, that's some dope stuff.

It's like, yeah, man, we got this at the business.

So it's like where y'all what y'all got it from.

It's like, yeah, that's ninety that's the ninety style.

I'm like where that's dope.

And I was just walking by him.

It was like these fools don't not you know, nothing nothing against it.

But then some of them did know.

You know, there was times that one of them like wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, you know, so shouts out to those those cats.

But there was a subculture in New York, not necessarily like the Retro Kids that was the name of the crew, but there was a subculture of retro kids that just didn't know and they would dress like that and have no idea where they got it from or anything.

So I think it's dope.

All right.

Well ship man, Uh, well, the toys we gotta talk about, you know, we gotta talk about the toys and the album.

So let's go.

I want to you know, I'm a heavy toy collector and everything, yes, and so I wanted to give y'all with who's the only black guy and toys?

David David give a shout out to David Varner because the toy industry is you autographed mons to you're talking about together, So so you got you got.

Those are both for the audition, but so big shots to Dave.

Dave.

Dave is a pioneer in the toy industry.

He's a good friend of mine in my age range, and he's a pioneer.

He started out at Marvel Comics when we went to this toy company called Toy Business.

He's the reason why we have the toy collection called Marvel Legends, and so this is some toy nerd stuff going on.

And he moved through ranks and he moved to different toy companies and now he has his own toy factory.

He has his own toy company as well.

So he's a real pioneer and it's something that I always wanted to get into.

So so I co founded a company called LBO.

Let's be honest, and you know, our mission is to create toys, some of them which are very hip hop based.

Like we have this toy line about to come out, and it's very hip hop based, but it puts people that look like us, all of us on shelves just as much as we see Captain America and Batman and Superman.

So you know, that's really our mission and and and so like I'm real heavy into that space and it helps me get up, get away from the stress of music.

Oh yeah, because once you know, when you're doing music, you know, everything is a political game.

You gotta start maneuvering in ways.

It's not as pure as it used to be.

But you go to a comic con or another kind of toy convention or whatever, ain't nobody thinking about none but buying the exclusive stuff and seeing what's coming out, And it takes me back to that that pure period of time.

So yeah, Okay, so now you said the new album.

Yeah, it's your first album in twenty six years.

Please.

So this is the album I got like a bag of tricks over the Holy Morning.

So this is the album called The Different Kids.

Oh, the album is amazing man, now, thank you.

And this album, like if you zoom in on it, it represents a lot of different things.

You got nineteen eighty nine to me right there.

I won't say different bases of you.

Yeah, yeah, you got.

I don't know me just trying to be fly online or whatever right then, you know me shilling up, but the producer me and then the current artist version of me.

But the whip that I'm sitting on is the Star Wars Landsfeeder.

People don't understand, like I got to bring that geek culture in here too.

So shout out to amazing artists and DC named me a Duval.

Yeah it is so Mia Duval did this artwork for the Different Kids.

It's out now.

It just came out in August, so you know, and I think I love this album.

I think a lot of people tell me it's my best work.

And I don't think that it's not a glazy either.

I think for the first time since I was sixteen, I made an album without any expectation.

Yeah, I made it in a small room in my house.

It wasn't like a.

Glorious studio or anything, just a small room in my crib.

And I put the album together and it's on my own label, distributed through Virgin Records and label called SRG.

And you know.

I have You know, I had no expectations about it, you know what I'm saying.

Put out some records and see what happens.

Because I like producing, I like producing myself, I like rapping.

Let's see what happens.

And I put out two singles at the same time, one called Miss Mary Mack and another single called Hello Anybody.

And you know, like I'm getting all TV.

Shows, I'm getting all you know, the news, I'm doing podcast I'm doing stuff that.

I would have never been doing normally.

I'm on a promo run, you know what I'm saying.

And at the same time, I'm coming from a perspective of where I am now as a person, as as a man in his fifties with a family.

You know, I'm rhyming from that perspective.

I'm giving stories about Yeah, like I'm growing.

I'm not trying to be sixteen year old me.

Yea, yeah, like I'm putting my And that was the thing about the beats.

It was like, nobody has to tell me I need to be on the radio.

Nobody needs to nobody's telling me I got to be in the club.

I gotta make this trap beat to fit in.

I'm just making beats and as raw as the beats are, that and if you know how it is you here, don't bet you wanted to start rhyming.

If I'm making a beat and make me want to start rhyming, that's going to be on the album.

And I'm gonna and I'm gonna rhyme about something.

Every record is about something, and I'm not just gonna just be talking about you know, like I'm back.

You know, I'm not doing none of that or you know I used to do this.

I was down back in the day.

Like it's none of that kind of stuff.

So you know, I really love this album, you know, And I'm gonna I'm gonna promote and push the hell out of the.

Album, you know, like keep going the different kids out.

Now.

It's a two part question.

You got an American Music Award and you was adducted to the hip Hop Hall of Fame.

But I didn't get an American Music Award.

You didn't get my record is switch Switch Switch got an American Music Award, so I guess I get one by default like that.

But it was, you know, and if I'm not mistaken.

Lloyd Banks on Fire, either Lloyd Banks or Christina Aguiler, one of them or both of them got Grammy nominations, so I could I could claim that if I wanted to.

But then the Hip Hop Hall of Fame, as a hip hop museum in Washington, DC, did an induction ceremony, and I thought it was dope for me because one, you know, I didn't think I was gonna be put up in a museum, Like I'm like, can you tell somebody, But the people that were inducted at the same time, it was myself, it was getting played, It was her beloved bug, it was Dana Dane, and everybody who had something to do with who I am was all there at the same time.

I'm talking about down to Ron Lawrence was there and like you know, and I had to thank him.

I was able to personally thank him for helping me get into position that I'm in.

This guy, my boy named Dana.

We call him Dana Dumb.

The guy who taught me how to use an NPC was in the audience, and I got to I haven't seen him since the day he taught me to call him Dana dumb And yeah, no, Dana's super.

Nasty with the beast, but he taught me how to use it, and I was like, I was able to personally thank him.

You know, I have family that I was able to acknowledge.

I haven't seen Herbie Lovebug in I haven't seen Herbie love Bug since the nineties, No, two thousand and one, I haven't seen him.

So I was able to see Herbie.

You know his younger brother, Steve, who put me with Herbie.

You know, we all went to school together.

You know, I'm seeing I'm literally seeing my neighborhood and being inducted into a Hall of Fame at the same time.

So it was bigger.

It was for me.

It was way bigger than what I was getting.

I'm like, yo, we'll all hear at once.

Only people that ain't here with us, and they couldn't make it with salt and pepper.

And I'm like, dag if that would have been the sweet tea was there answering that was this?

So the first person I ever even produced was there?

Yeah, So I'm like, yo, this is like the mega full circle moment for me.

So it was dope.

Are you a super legend?

Man?

We appreciate you, Thank you, Thank you having men appreciate you, Thank you, thank you.

Drink Champs is a drink Champs LLC production hosts and executive producers n O r E and dj e FN.

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