Alright y'all, before we dive in, a quick heads up.

This show is raw, real, and definitely not rated pg.

We're talking about adult themes, sexual content, and the kind of stuff you probably don't want blasting through your speakers at work or around your kits.

So grab some headphones, pour your drink of choice and get comfy.

Oh, and just so we're clear, we are not licensed therapists, counselors, or sex.

Couches.

Sex coaches.

Sex coaches, not sex couches or just a couple of people sharing our lives, experiences and sexy adventures.

An ethical non-monogamy.

So with that, pull up a chair and enjoy the show.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Beyond Monogamy.

I'm Adam, and I'm Press.

And tonight we've got somebody joining us who doesn't just talk about love and communication.

She actually teaches people how to master it.

We're talking about the one and only Ms.

Nookie, creator of the Love Mastery Institute and the brilliant Mind behind Nookie Notes.

Now, if you haven't heard of them, the Love Mastery Institute is all about giving people the tools to better connections.

Practice real con consent and communicate in ways that make your relationships and your sex life feel more fulfilling and not more complicated.

And Nookie notes, well, think of them like flirty little conversation cards for grownups designed to help couples and relationship constellations talk about sex boundaries, aftercare, and everything in between without that awkward pressure and therapist vibe.

Absolutely.

So if you've ever wanted to know how to make consent sound sexy, how to reconnect after conflict without the weird tension or how to build emotional safety, even when your relationships get complex, grab your coffee, your cocktail, or your partner and settle in because this one's going to be full of those light bulb moments that'll change how you talk.

Yeah.

We are so excited for this one.

Ms.

Nookie has this incredible way of mixing knowledge, humor, and straight up practical tools that you can use the same night.

So let's welcome Ms.

Nookie to the show.

Welcome to Welcome.

I'm so excited to be here.

Thank you Adam.

And thank you Pris.

I'm so excited.

Beyond Monogamy, you guys are simply amazing.

Oh we are very happy to have you.

It's going to be fun.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's so, so to, to all of our listeners out there, you know, obviously if you didn't catch it in the long-winded intro she teaches dating and consent and all that good stuff that I don't know how many of us need to really know about.

Yes, yes, yes.

Uh, and so we're gonna, we're gonna really get into this because I'm just curious all about you now.

I'm I, I'd like to start out, how did you get here, Ms.

Nookie?

How did Ms.

Nookie become Ms.

Nookie?.

I became Ms.

Nookie because my, my parents, um, my mom, she's no longer with us, but my parents were married for 47 years.

Oh, wow.

My parents were married for 47 years and my mom's side, huge family.

So I've had like, I have a aunt that was married within six months.

I have a aunt that was married after 10 years of being with her, husband.

I have a uncle that, married, then divorced, and then found like his first love again, like his first love.

They found each other again like 20 years later.

So I've seen all aspect, all different types of ways that people have gotten into relationships, but no one ever told me how they did it, what their mind, what their thought process was, you know, and just in, in general, many of us, we just aren't taught how to date.

So that's why I was like, okay, I need to take this dive.

'cause you know, I, I'm, I'm divorced and, you know, especially, and now I'm, I'm, I'm in the dating world looking for my, my true love, my true husband.

And especially after being divorced, I was like, you know what?

I know how to be married.

I can be married again.

Got divorced in 2014, so yeah, still needed a lot of work that I needed to do because I was like, you know, it shouldn't be hard.

I, I've been a wife, I know.

And, but then when you get out there in the dating apps and it was just like, okay, nobody's real.

Nobody's real about what they want.

And you know, and just being in.

It's like a sea of sharks when you first come out and you join the dating act.

If you don't know what to do, if you don't have your boundaries, if you don't have your negotiables and non-negotiables, if you don't know all of that, it's, it's like a, it's like a feeding frenzy.

And that's why so many people are like, oh, dating is a shit show.

And you know, it sucks and dah, dah, dah, dah, because they're just not approaching it.

They're doing the same thing over and over again.

The definition of insanity.

So I'm here to make us less sane.

That sounds like fun.

Yeah.

You know, I, I remember when we opened up our relationship to, to dating and it was miserable.

It was not fun.

And it was because we were older, obviously, we didn't grow up during the app generation, and all of a sudden this was the way to do it, and you had to swipe left or right, and everything is all gunned up to their profile picture.

Whatever witticisms that they wrote in their profile and it all came down to that.

You know, and whatever kind of conversation you can have.

Low key on a, on a, an app messenger.

He's Exactly, I was married, this is my third marriage girl.

Third marriage right here.

That's right.

She found Mr.

Third time's a charm.

That's right.

You hit the jackpot with this one.

I did.

You know, I don't, and, and I never dated.

I was 13 when I got with my first husband.

Got married at 18, got divorced at like 24.

Went into another relationship within like weeks, stayed with that one rebound, had kids and stayed with him for seven years and then divorced and went straight to Adam.

So like, I don't even know that dating ritual.

And when we became poll and we were starting to date, I was like, this is crazy.

No.

Is this how you meet people on an app?

Yeah.

You're right.

People were very fake and they weren't being honest with what they wanted.

And you know, to get that out of them was a very hard thing.

Yeah.

I'm glad you, I'm glad you're here to teach us.

Yeah.

Like for, for dating apps what I, what I tip, what I typically say is you really have to look at the profiles.

Look at the pictures.

Are there, are the pictures varying?

Do you see casual?

Do you see business?

You know, if it's all casual, I'm not gonna swipe.

You know, if, if all you have are, are five pictures and you got on a t-shirt, no, I need, I need versatility.

That's the first thing, and then even just the, the simple questions, when, when a guy says, ask me anything you wanna know, that's a, that's an automatic swipe left because you don't even have time to invest in your profile.

So, you know, these, these little simple things kind of, it, it helps you to, to weed out.

A lot just by those simple things.

Because I tell people, if you are doing your profile, you need to have pictures of, you know, the different aspects of you.

Fill out the profile, answer those questions, truly give a little bit of yourself so that when you do your profile, you know a little bit more of what to look for.

Now, you know, this isn't foolproof 'cause things will slip through, but at least you get rid of that, that first layer of scum, for lack of a better word, you, you filter out the first layer of scum and then you can, you know, dive a little deeper.

And also like when dating, it's, you have to change your mindset.

On average.

Sometimes it could take people 80 dates before they find their person.

So it sounds like a big number, but if you think of it that way, you're not in a mindset of, is this the one, is this the one, is this the one?

Because I'm a hopeless romantic?

And I was like that everyone is the one.

Everyone is my husband until he proves that he's not you.

I'm a hopeless romantic.

Yeah.

I believe in love all the time.

I see you, you like me, okay.

I'm planning the wedding in my head, but you know, you gotta slow down.

I'm total opposite.

I you gotta slow down and, and just, and take some time.

Yeah.

No, that is so funny.

That's how it was with with Adam when he was, when we were poly.

You know, I, I, so I am, I am big.

I, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm very big on, with, when we were poly, that's when I realized that new relationship energy is a thing.

And I would get all excited to be with this one person.

And, and, you know, before you know it, all of your, and that was the difficulty too, was all of your time and energy goes into this new relationship.

And when it comes to non-monogamy.

You have other relationships that you have, there's other plants that you gotta work, you gotta split, you gotta split your time.

Yeah.

And so that time management, that was a tough part for me because I'm also a dad and I was raising kids Yeah.

As well as I'm, I married my best friend, and so with all of that, it was just difficult to give myself whatever I had left to somebody else.

It was just difficult, know?

Yeah.

For, for the way that you normally give.

Yes.

You kind of had to say, okay, well I, it's like you kind of felt self defeated because you didn't feel like you were being your truest self in giving your all Yes.

That you would normally do.

I give everything that I, yeah.

That I wanted to give.

Now Pris, it was a different story because Pris was not a fan of polyamory.

Yeah.

She was not a fan of, of dating others so much.

She is bisexual and so she wanted to experience other women in a relationship setting and that sort of thing.

And.

She was not as successful.

Her experiences were not as successful as, as mine were.

Just for the sheer fact that women connecting with other women, I guess I'm very transparent and I'm very, I stand by my beliefs and a lot of people just don't get that.

Like it's, you know, I was very, they were very standoffish and, and so I was like, okay, well if this is not gonna work, if you're not gonna be compatible to me, then it's, it's fine.

There are, we did date a woman together recently, and it was really cool because she was pretty similar to me in Attitude and feistiness and stuff like that, but it was a little different because she wasn't really, I don't know, uh, understanding of like, not understanding, but he's very sensitive and stuff like that.

So it was a weird balance.

I don't know if I'll do it again.

Can't say no, but I don't know.

It was, it was really hard.

It was hard.

One thing I can say, like, like when you're, because I'm, I'm straightforward and I'm assertive, and sometimes people can find that intimidating.

Yes, I get that.

She gets called.

So what I try to do, I try to just tap more into my feminine energy.

And just kind of slow down and just be softer.

Yeah, I do.

You know, and yeah, like, just slow down when you think slow, you know, like when you're walking, think slow when you're talking to someone, slow down your pace and that, that'll make you a little more in inviting.

And, I mean, you can still say what you wanna say and if you say it slower, trust me, the delivery is that's the key.

It's the delivery.

There you go.

So just try slowing down a little bit and just talking like, yeah, you know, this is what I like and this is what I don't like.

And tell me what you like and talk like that.

Just try and talk a little bit slower and I bet you people will be a lot more receptive.

Oh, she's a fast talker.

You called that one.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

And I mean, it makes sense because, you know, it's, it's.

With oomph, you know, it's with emotion, it's with Yeah.

You know, that you're slowing everything down and going, look, this is me.

And it's intentional.

It, it's like really intentional, you know?

It's, it's a little more intentional and people list, when you talk slower, people listen to every word that you say.

Yeah.

The slower you talk, it becomes a little entrancing, you know, like, you know, here I am and this is what I want.

And people will give you what you want.

The slower you talk, especially as a woman, Ms.

Nookie, you're putting it like that.

I'm hanging on every word over here.

No.

Now I, I'd like to delve into consent and things that, that, uh, you talked about, uh, a lot of people in the lifestyle kind of struggle with how to say things in the moment especially when multiple people are involved.

And I'm curious as far as what you think how can we make consent sound sexy and natural without like killing the vibe?

Because I've been afraid of that myself.

You know, it's, it's one of those things where you know for our specific lifestyle, consent is everything, and consent is very sexy.

But if everything's in the moment, things are happening, how can you ask for consent without turning everybody off?

Off.

Without turning it off?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's one of those, it's one of those things where, okay, so if you're at a swinger's party, everybody kind of knows what it's about.

Yeah.

You know, and everybody knows what it's about, but you still need consent to still swing when you're at the party.

Right.

So, you know, you have that initial contact and you know, you have a vibe and you know, so are you feeling what I'm feeling?

You know, just, just easing it into the conversation, here's what I like.

What do you like?

You know, when you start talking about likes and dislikes, and you can kind of get a feel for whether or not someone will consent with you.

So it, it's all in how you propose the conversation and the type of, and, and where the conversation goes, that you'll feel like a little nudge in your belly when you're like, okay, I think, you know, I think this one is good to go.

So let's, you know, up, up the ante and have the, have the consent talk.

Because it, to me, it's just all about the way a conversation.

'cause you know when someone isn't feeling you when you're talking to them.

Yeah.

And you know, to just pull back and be like, oh, you know, nice meeting you.

You know, oh, someone's calling me.

Let me go real quick.

You know how to exit fast.

But when you're, you know, you're enjoying a conversation with someone and you know, you give the looks and you know, the, you know, the slight touch.

I'm, I'm a very touchy-feely person, so if, if I'm talking to you, I may touch your elbow or touch your shoulder, you know, see how receptive they are to that and just kind of go with the flow and be like, so, you know, are, are you okay with us doing X, Y, Z?

And you know, it's easing it into the conversation once the conversation feels comfortable.

Yeah, sure, sure.

If that makes sense.

There's two questions that swingers are most uncomfortable asking.

One of them is consent.

The other one is the condom question.

And for some reason those, those two questions, people get very nervous.

It's so, it's so odd to me that those are two of the hardest questions because you know what you're doing.

You are an adult consenting.

Yes.

You know, you're going in this knowing, knowing what you, what you wanna do, and it's like, okay, so yeah I'm a condom person, so if you're not, then this isn't gonna work.

It's, it's standing by what your negotiables and non-negotiables are.

Yeah.

And saying it very introducing it and standing by it.

Yeah.

And saying it in a very natural way where it's like, yeah, you're not judging and you're not being rude about it.

So I'm very up upfront, like I said, I'm like, okay, so we wear condoms and are y'all good with that?

Yeah.

It's like, you know, you know, me, me and my partner, we agreed that this is how we do this.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and just standing in that, you know, this is how we do this.

And then, oh, well, we don't wear condoms.

Oh, well you know what?

It was so nice talking to you, you know, and, you know, and oh, we gotta go do something.

You just get the hell outta dodge because it, it's not worth entertaining something that you know, you're not going to do, because you know, no one's gonna be able to coax you into doing something that you're not going to do either.

So it, it's, it's one of those type of things.

That's right.

I mean, so essentially, in so many words, we just gotta act like.

Period.

Yeah, like we're doing adult things, very adult things.

So you just gotta be adults about it.

You gotta own it.

Yeah.

If you own it, embrace it, live it, breathe it, embody who you are and be unapologetic.

I think that's part of the problem.

We don't live unapologetically enough.

Agree.

Yeah, agree.

You know, like I don't apologize a lot 'cause whatever I did, I did it and I meant it and I'll be accountable for it.

And it, it is what it is, you know?

So it's just be who you are.

You I'm, I'm about to, you know, I'm about to be 50 sexy next year, so I have no more F's to give.

So I'm just me.

You are going to get me 100%.

And either if you like it, I love it.

If you don't.

I wish you the best.

Namaste, you know, perfect person.

Oh, I'm telling you, man.

Oh my goodness, yes.

I, I totally 1000% agree with you.

And I wish that more women, I'm gonna say women had that much confidence and had the ability to speak up and say things like that because I am with you.

I do not apologize very often.

I am not I'm, the gives a fucks are gone.

So you have to be, you know what my mind is going, going right now, and like I am, like, my mind is screaming masterclass for people who are interested in life, in lifestyle, you know, a couple's masterclass, you know, one, one for females, one for males to address these issues.

If you guys were to coordinate something like that, I'm here with you.

Yes, I will.

I will.

That's something that we've talked about.

Yeah.

You know, I, I would say that, that the dating world is difficult for anybody, whether you're non-monogamous or monogamous, but I feel like the dating world is a bit tougher as non monogamous, obviously, because you're, you're holding onto more than one relationship.

Yeah.

And so I, I'm curious, in your experiences have you worked with people in non-monogamous relationships the same or.

I have and it is a push pull and it's, it's not meant for everybody.

Yeah.

And people need to understand that, it's okay if it's for you, and it's okay if you try it and you don't like it, it's okay.

You know, like people are like, well, it seems like that's the end thing now, and I just don't want it.

Okay.

Peer, we don't do peer pressure.

We're adults.

Yeah.

Peer pressure doesn't exist for us.

Let, let's get rid of that stigma.

And it's, it's just, understand making sure that the communication is there with all parties and all parties are in agreement to, I tell people the para, the, the number one thing about relationships is how, if you can effectively communicate, effectively communicate.

And if you feel like you know, you're in this.

ENM and you know, your person isn't giving you enough time, be able to communicate that with them.

And if they say, well, that's all the time that I can give you, be willing to walk away.

You know, I think too many times people are afraid for fear of being alone to walk away from situations, and then they'll, they'll sit there unhappy.

Well, I tried it and, you know, he just didn't pay me any attention.

He paid the, oh, then why did you stay?

You know, it's, it's, it's one of those type of things where be in your power because I, what I do at Love Mastery Institute, I teach you how to prepare yourself for love, prepare yourself for any dynamic.

Because once you have that self-love, you're not gonna do all of the push and pull.

You're not gonna sit and beg.

You're gonna, like I said, you're gonna lay out your boundaries.

You're gonna lay out your negotiables and non-negotiables, and it is what it is.

And when you are powerful enough to know that you can walk away from anything.

To me, that makes you sexier than ever.

And that makes people chase you even more when they know that they can't play in your face.

In essence, well put that's, that was everything right there, actually.

Because, 'cause I mean, that is sexy to me.

You know, if, if there's a level of desperation that I'm seeing in somebody and they don't love themselves enough to, to mm-hmm.

Which you boundaries.

Yeah.

Which you mean.

Yeah.

I've seen it several times before.

I lose interest immediately.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, I am a big fan of strong women.

Yes.

Strong minded women, very opinionated women.

I love my strong women 100%.

And, uh, when I come in contact with somebody who is not on that level, they don't love themselves that much, they don't, you know, treat themselves better I lose interest because if you don't love yourself, why would I?

Yeah.

Exactly.

I, I tell people, no one can love you more than you love yourself.

Yeah.

Period.

You know, you have to be happy with yourself.

I go on solo dates all the time, you know, I'll take myself to the movies, you know, out to eat all the time, and I just, I don't know.

I enjoy me.

Yeah, I enjoy me.

And I mean, it, it also gives me more time to flirt, you know, if there's a cute bartender or someone cute beside, it, it, it does lend to being an opportunity to flirt when someone sees you out and about by yourself.

So I just look at every opportunity I can to, you know, meet people.

I have no problem saying hi to people.

I have no problem complimenting people.

Oh, that's a nice shirt.

Oh, that shirt looks good with your eyes.

You know, just talk to people.

And if you just if you practice that in your daily life, just in general, you, you, you'll, you'll start to just build up a certain confidence where you're like, Hey, I can talk to anybody.

It's just little steps.

I believe big life changes come from small mindset changes.

Ooh, that's, we're gonna put that on a shirt, so that's a good one.

Yeah.

That, that's all it takes.

Small mindset changes.

I and what I love about complimenting, strangers, you never know if you've made their day.

Yes.

Because some people, they'll, they'll be like you, you know, they'll, they'll just have a, a straight face and say, Hey, that's a really nice color.

Thank you.

You know, like, you can make someone's day just by doing that.

Think about when someone compliments you.

So even just start with that, complimenting people.

If you see something nice compliment and just keep it moving.

You don't have to sit and conversate, compliment everybody.

Yeah, exactly.

Because you just never know.

Like, somebody could be having a really bad day.

Yes.

And you just changed their, the whole trajectory of their day with a simple thing.

And it took nothing.

It was free.

And, and you can see, it's almost like you see the click in their face when you give them the compliment.

So that just makes you feel good and you know, that can work on your self-esteem.

'cause hey, I had the power to say something simple and make someone happy.

So I should have the power to look myself in the mirror and do my affirmations and say, you know, I am beautiful.

I am enough, I am worthy.

And know that that's gonna give me the same effect that I give random strangers by complimenting something they're wearing.

It's just simple mindset.

Easy.

Yeah.

It comes back to you.

Yep.

Back to you now Ms.

Definitely does.

I was, one of the things that I was looking forward to talking to you about is Nookie notes.

Yes.

Okay.

Now I, I kind of briefly went into it in the intro, but could you break it down for us?

What is Nookie notes?

So I have two versions of Nookie Notes.

I have a version for people who are dating and a version for couples.

So in, in my sessions with couples, we all know people who have been together forever and they say, oh, we fell out of touch.

You know, life took over.

So the whole whole idea behind the couple's deck is just to have activities, whether it's a talking activity or an actual activity that will increase intimacy.

You know, especially if you've been married for 10 years or more, you kind of run out of ideas and that's really all you need.

Some something to, something to just provoke a new idea, a newness, a new way to look at each other, a new way to talk to each other, a new way to reconnect with each other.

So that's why, you know, it's a simple, you don't have to go to counseling.

You can just take some nookie notes and, say, okay, once a month we're going to pull a card, randomly pull a card, or you know, pull three cards and say, okay, we're gonna do one of these three activities.

And there you go.

You start bonding right there.

'cause you're sitting down, you're looking at the three activities and you're deciding together what to do when you may not have spoken for weeks or, or, or something.

But if you put it on your calendar, this is gonna be a date night.

We're gonna draw some no notes and do whatever it says or, or make a plan.

You are already starting to bond.

'cause bonding.

Bonding comes by doing activities together, creating memories.

That's what bonds people, especially men, men get bonded to women by the memories.

It's that vasopressin is a, is is expressed when you do actual activities with someone.

So that's what that's about.

Just reconnecting.

And my date cards are just to help people have fruitful conversations on dates so that you're not asking how many siblings do you have, what's your favorite color?

No, that's not gonna help you know whether or not you and that person are in alignment in terms of what you're looking for the future.

So that, you know, the, the dating side that's just questions.

A small card deck that you can pop out on a date and be like, Hey, you wanna ask some questions?

You pick a card, I pick a card and we have something to talk about.

So that that's, that's what's behind it.

Just something to make dating a little bit easier.

Yeah, because it's so hard and so difficult and so many people don't know what to do.

Especially, like I said, me after being divorced, I had no clue what I was doing.

Like I would've loved to have had nookie notes because that would've, you know, that would've helped me to, you know, you know, navigate things a little bit better and vet better.

We don't vet properly, that's the key.

We don't vet properly and we become physical too soon.

Most of the times, I, I know there are people who, who, you know, fall in love at first sight, first, first date they get physical and they're in love.

The problem is that's maybe only 5% of the population that that works for, and everybody thinks that they're part of that 5% when they're not.

Not everyone can handle that.

We have a lot of friends who will go through divorces.

They start dating again, and every per they'll date one person and they're like, um, this is the person that I'm seeing.

I'm seeing this person, I'm seeing this person.

It's like, why aren't you dating multiple people?

You need to date, you need to date multiple people because you don't wanna put all your eggs in one basket.

I'm all about time management and conserving energy.

When you have all your eggs in one basket and you, you spent six months, drawing, diving deep with this person just to realize that they're not, that's six months wasted.

Where if you're dating, and when I say dating, multi, it's talking, you're dating, collecting data, collecting information, not being physical because physical I say will turn you into a fool because they'll knock something out your head and you're like, you know, your sense, your true senses go away because it's so good and so sweet.

If you can't, you know, you're like, this is it.

No.

Their character sucks.

They just got good private parts.

You know, I I never heard about Multid dating or dating a lot of people at one time until I got older.

And I'm gonna say, even recently, I had a coworker who was in her thirties, early thirties, and she moved from California and she was like I'm dating, but I'm dating, I forgot what she called it, but she was just dating multiple people.

And for me that was really cool.

For my other coworker who's older, was like, Ooh, no that's really weird.

And I'm, and I remember thinking, that's really freaking smart of her.

And she was looking for something specific.

She was dating all these multiple men and she wasn't sleeping with them, but she was dating them on, she was going out on dates and she was like nope, not that one.

Nope, not that one.

She finally found one.

And she's like, I, exactly.

It's like the law.

It's like the law of averages.

When, when, when you're doing that, and then even if you let everyone know that you're dating multiple people, for women, you know, the men who don't wanna put in the work, they're gonna leave immediately, right?

Because they're gonna be like, oh, well, if you're dating multiple people, you have to be sleeping with one.

Listen, if you don't wanna believe me now while we're dating and I'm trying to tell you how I date, then we're not meant to be.

And you can just move on your way, right?

Because a man that's really into you, he is going to fight for you and show you that he's the one for you.

That's, to me, that's the purpose of dating multiple people, is letting them know, okay, which one of you are really gonna step up to the plate?

Rather than dating one man who's like, I, I got that.

That's mine already.

Who didn't really have to work for it?

So that's why it's, it's on both sides.

You gotta come as your truest self and know that hey, they got someone else and you know, you gotta feel 'em out.

Are they really feeling me?

Are they not?

You know, and, and that's the give or take.

And that's why dating can become exhausting.

'cause right now I'm on pause, I'm on, I, I've deleted all the apps.

I'm waiting until January to restart.

You know, I'm pouring back into me taking a refresher because I was ready to start cursing everybody out.

'cause they were just coming at me left and right.

And, and I try not to try to be good and kind 'cause I don't wanna tear nobody down.

So when I feel that bubbling inside of me, I take breaks.

So I tell people, hate dating breaks.

You need time to breathe because it can become overwhelming and you get frustrated because of all of the BS that's going on.

And the BS that you're hearing.

You're just like, oh, I can't stand this.

And then.

If you don't take a break, you may meet someone who could be the one, but you're not in that head space because you automatically think that they're gonna be like the rest.

So it is always good to, take a break, take a month or two off.

And honestly it resets the algorithm of the dating apps.

There you go.

Oh, that makes sense because the dating apps, it's like the same thing over and over again.

Yeah, exactly.

But if you take a month off and go back, it's like, who did new people move into the area all of a sudden?

You know?

So it it, it's good even just to fool the algorithm so that you can get more choices rather than just the same lame choices over and over again.

And use multiple dating apps.

Use multiple dating apps.

'cause you never know which ones people are on.

And then of course our situation is slightly different because we're talking about dating, but we're talking about dating in a non-monogamous way.

And so, you know, there's a lot of people out of our experiences.

A lot of people need your advice.

Yes.

Well, yeah, because it's a thing now on, on dating apps where you can put that you're ethic ethically, non-monogamous.

Yeah.

You know, so it, it is something that's growing that people are more aware of.

And I just feel like a lot of people the stigma that's attached to it causes them fear of trying that and just, you know, because they're like, oh, I just want one person.

I am a proponent of saying monogamy is not natural to begin with.

Mm-hmm.

Because if we were a mono, we would be like the platypus, one and done and that's it.

We wouldn't be just.

Attracted to anybody else if monogamy was a natural thing.

And to me, anything you have to work at is not natural and you have to work at monogamy.

So it's like just trying to have people understand that, you know, life flows.

It, it ebbs and flows and you have to look at life kind of like an amoeba.

It's gonna be ever changing, ever evolving.

Even your story, you know, you started off as swingers, then you were polyamorous, and then you decided to be ethically non-monogamous.

You know, you kind of just went with the flow of how you felt in the moment.

And I feel if more people lived like that, they would just, they would be happy and stop worrying about society and what everybody else says.

I know Ms.

Nookie, you are the voice inside my head.

Lemme tell you.

And just, understand like for me the process is if you meet someone and you're in the same area within an hour of each other.

If a man does not ask me out on a date within a week to two weeks tops, I'm done.

'cause I need you to be proactive.

I'm here to be proactive.

You need to be proactive too.

Like people need to have that mindset, that whole thing of I'm not afraid to walk away.

Yeah.

You have to not be afraid to walk away or people will st they, they will love bomb you and they will just string you along.

They will breadcrumb you.

I remember one guy, one guy like we had initially matched in March and it was like July and he was like, Hey, thank you for the compliment.

I was like, dude, March to July.

I wish you the best in your search for love.

Thank you.

Now, if I was dating from a space of desperation, I would've been like, oh, hey, how are you?

No.

You gotta know, know your worth.

Don't let, because that means he done played with a whole bunch of females.

Yep.

And now he wants to try and see your worth and your value.

He needs to try and see that upfront.

Yes.

We're not, we're not.

Mm-hmm.

You're not coming, you're not leaving us.

What if he just hit pause for a little while, then say that?

No, I mean, you can say that.

You know, like, like, I, like, I have no prob like be honest, you know, some, you know, hey, I was frustrated, so I had to hit pause and I, I came back and, you know, I, I went back to, you know, our discussions that we had and, you know, I would like to, you know, reconvene.

There's a way, there's a way to do that.

Just like there's a way to spin the block.

It's all in your approach.

You can't just, Hey, what's up?

How you doing?

Let's start this again.

No.

Let me know what caused the break, and if your story is good enough, I may say, okay, but your story has to be good enough.

It has to be, if you're gonna lie, you have to believe you are lie.

Agreed.

Your story has to be, your story has to make sense.

Your story cannot make me have 10 quest.

At least if I have like five questions about your story, then no.

Something about it is, is, is suspicious to me.

Exactly.

Because like I said, we're adults, we're mature, we know life happens.

Yeah.

So I'm willing to listen.

I, I, I tell every guy I will say yes to everything that you say.

Everything that you promise.

I will say yes, because I'm a woman.

I wait for action.

I talk.

They say, talk is cheap.

I will let you talk.

You can promise me the moon, and until I see you bring me the moon, you are not saying anything.

Yeah.

Now do you, and that's what people need to understand actions.

Have you always been like that or is it in your older ages that you've finally realized?

In my older age, yes.

You know, like I say, I wasn't taught how to date, so I was believing everything.

Yeah.

You know, boyfriends that cheated on me and, and stuff and you know, I was like, oh, was it me?

What did I do wrong?

And you know, all of this self-loathing thinking that I'm the problem and I'm like, you know what I was doing everything that I was exactly.

I was doing everything that I was supposed to do.

And when I came to the realization that at the end of the day everyone chooses themself.

Oh yeah.

If you really think about it, at the end of the day, every, so I'm like, so I need to be selfish and choose me.

Yes.

More than not.

Yeah.

And when I started choosing me, it's, it, it's that confidence.

It's, it's that confidence.

'cause I've, you know, I've, I've done things that you're not supposed to do.

You know, I've dealt with, I've dealt with married men, I don't do that anymore.

But I've, I've done that.

And I was like, well, I was cheating on without cheating on nobody.

'cause we were like, karma is karma, really.

Like no one cared about the karma when they were doing it to me.

And I mean, it's not good to be like, okay, well I'm just gonna do it back.

But I was living, for me, I was being my selfish self.

Now I don't do that anymore 'cause I'm trying to be a better person, but it's like we all go through stages and no one is gonna be perfect.

And yes, you're gonna have missteps, but be able to forgive yourself of those missteps and know that you can become a better person no matter what your past is.

That's all of the self-love part.

To get that confidence to be like, okay, I hear you.

No, that doesn't, something about that doesn't sound right.

Yeah.

You know, or to say, I hear you.

And you know, sometimes when you talk to people, you can feel their emotion.

Mm-hmm.

So you know, when they're being genuine.

And that comes with being in tune with yourself as well.

When you can trust your gut, truly trust your gut to listen.

And I like to say, hear what they don't say, because that's a, that's a big one too.

You know, like you can meet someone and they'll be like, yeah, I'm divorced and, and you know, it was a good divorce.

But then they constantly talk about their ex-wife.

And they're like, I'm over her though.

No, you're not.

You're not.

You know it, listen to what they're not saying.

If you, if you're truly tapped in, you can hear what people are not saying, and that's where the truth lies.

Do you find it hard for, because you deal with couples and I'm assuming singles and you know, yes.

Okay.

So do you find it hard for men to be self-loving or, or understand?

I know us for women, right.

We can talk for ourselves.

And we're both, I'm 47, so we're both kind of in the same age era, you know?

Yeah.

And we, we've already learned, we've already been there, done that.

Do you find it harder for men because I know that they mature a little later and do you find it harder for them?

It's harder because of toxic masculinity.

That's what it is.

The whole raising, raising your sons to don't cry and, or, you know, you are the man of the house and you know all of that and you know, you know, you don't hug them.

You're not supposed to hug your, as a father, you're not supposed to hug your son or kiss them on the cheek and all of that.

No.

You know, like, we need to stop that.

And many moons ago I did a show about that.

And the reason why I did a show about that, there was a bar that I used to hang out at when, when I lived in Baltimore and there was a bartender.

He was homosexual and we were, you know, I told him, you know, I have a podcast about sex and relationships.

And he was like, you need to talk about toxic masculinity.

He said, because I like to be hugged by my daddy.

He was like, I like to hug my daddy and I'll kiss my daddy on the cheek.

And people need to understand that.

And that's when I first.

Learned about that.

And you know, that's me hearing it from a man.

So now when you have men who their whole entire childhood have told to be tough and who may not have gotten a lot of hugs and love, it's hard for them to see a woman and be vulnerable.

And then for me, as a love, like I, I tell men all the time, like, I am so in your corner.

'cause a lot of women sometimes are just on some bs, you know what I'm saying?

And they, and they like to use men.

I'm like, because there are so many good men out there that women just don't appreciate.

And they just, and a lot of men just don't have, have outlets.

Like there are men that I've met while dating and maybe it may not work out with me and them.

And, and I'll say, can you please do a masterclass for men?

Can you start like having a discussion and they're like, oh, I can do a podcast.

No.

Do something small and intimate where, you know, men and young men and men can come and just talk about issues.

You know, talk about the way they're feeling, talk about the way their woman made them feel.

You know what I'm saying?

Because sometimes women, our tongues are like, cutlasses.

Yes.

I'm raising three boys, girl.

I'm raising three boys.

I have a son.

They're very, um, they're, they know their mama's very strong.

And I don't undermine my husband.

We're very even, you know, I mean, he's the man of the house.

Mm-hmm.

I'm the woman of the house.

But yeah, that is very, that's a, that really hits Well, toxic masculinity is a big topic in and of itself.

It is.

Especially in this, in this realm that we're in.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, I've, I've had, my sexuality question just because I am the way I am, you know, I, I run vulnerable.

I, I have no problems opening up and being.

I'm very honest.

Yeah.

And so if there's something I need to say to somebody, I'm gonna say it.

And if I think somebody's, you know, doing an awesome job, I'm gonna tell 'em, Hey, you're doing an amazing job.

You know?

Yeah.

I'm gonna come out and I'm gonna say things that most people have forgotten.

It's okay to say other.

And that's, and that's the, and, and, and, and that's the problem.

Like, like if someone is, is questioning your sexuality because of what you're doing more than likely they're afraid to be as open and free as, as you.

And, and, and that's what it is.

And, and it could take just a simple conversation to be like, Hey, do you wanna talk about this?

But it's just getting men to feel safe.

It's creating a safe space for a man to be open about his feelings.

And there's not enough of that in society right now.

Safe spaces for men to be vulnerable because you guys have emotions just like us.

And like, like I said, women, our tongues are cuts.

I know I can tear a man down, but I never will because I don't want to add to what society is already doing to you.

'Cause you need, you deserve a safe space.

And it's just, I just think there need to be more men's groups and especially start these groups.

You know, you have your boys, like my son, he is going to be an amazing husband someday.

I mean, he'll, he'll come and check on me, mom, are you okay?

If he's out and about like when he was in school, if he stayed after school and got like candies or something, he was like, mom, I know you like m and m, so I brought you m and ms.

Like simple stuff like that.

He'll hold the door, if he's, if, if he's not feeling good, I'll ask him what's wrong, talk to me.

And he knows how to stand up for himself.

You know, and he knows how to be soft with women and he knows how to be soft with children, you know, and it's just creating that to let him know he knows that he's strong and he knows when to puff up his chest, and he knows when to be soft.

And I don't think it's, it's something that's hard to teach.

It's just not being taught.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not.

I raised my kids to be, uh, affectionate because I wasn't affectionate with my father.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

We, he didn't tell me I, that he loved me and stuff like that.

And I wanted to make sure it raised my kids to know it's okay.

See, and so it's a different household for us.

It is.

But I will say that, that toxic masculinity plays a, a large part in, uh, the lifestyle.

In the lifestyle.

Goodness.

We see it often.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

We see it a lot.

It's it is a really, especially if there's a bisexual man he feels like he can't be himself.

He can't come out, he can't talk about it.

Yeah.

And, and then also on another.

Torrent of it.

We have single males who refer to themselves as bulls who will come in and they'll, their whole, I guess their whole job is to have sex with a hot wife in front of the husband, that sort of thing.

And this is, this is what they do.

And a lot of these cats are very disrespectful at times to husbands.

I've seen them a lot of times walk in like their cock of the walk, you know, and they puff in their chest and ego, they're ego driven.

Yeah.

And I don't know how many times she's been said, Hey, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take care of you so good.

You're not gonna want to go back to your husband.

And just like, all sorts of stuff.

And, and then that's where I can cut the man very quickly.

So that's where I bring that out.

I'm like, no, no, no, no.

So there are times when I have to do that, but it's very, it is, um, that machismo, especially with Latinos, they, those men, they're like, we're real machismo.

We're, we're the men.

And.

It's like they feel as if they have something to prove.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and, and, and that's the problem.

Like, like these spaces, the, the lifestyle spaces they're not, they're not structured, you know, like, like, like I used to have, um, a BDSM family that I used to, you know, have fun with and stuff like that.

It, it, it's not structured, you know, it's not that it's not normal society.

It's different.

It, you're, you're the hold machismo in there.

That's it's, it's all ego.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's all ego.

And you've probably, you know, broken down so many egos, by being, no, because sometimes you gotta check a man's ego, especially in, in, in that environment.

They need to be checked, like, Hey, we don't do that BS over here.

And, and, and let them know that, you know, it's okay to be soft, but it just makes me wonder what is going on.

On other aspects of their life that they feel the need to, you know, be that big dog in such a, a, a curated space that's, you know, for a different type of mentality.

Because, you know, it's the, like I said, the lifestyle, any form of lifestyle, it's not for everybody.

Right.

And like, I, I feel some people just use it for ego, like in BDSM when you have like the sadist, are you a true sadist that's going to give the aftercare and make sure that, that they're good?

Are you the sadist that just wants to, beat on someone?

Yeah.

Why?

You know, talk about that.

Yeah.

It's a it's, it's, it's a, it's a big thing and you know, it, it's a true, it's a true dynamic.

Why are you doing this?

Do you want them to feel that, that sweet pain?

Or do you just want to inflict pain?

There's a difference.

Yeah.

That I see.

Especially in that connection between, you know, like a, a sub and a dom.

I, I, I say it's, it like watching a sub and a dom truly play.

It's, it's, it's a, there's a dark beauty to it, you know, there, it, it, there's a dark beauty in, in watching a true dynamic like that.

And not every sadist has the capacity for that dark beauty.

They only have the capacity for the darkness.

Yes.

Now, you know, I'm, I'm curious about something, uh, going to Ms.

Nookie and dating.

Would you say that chivalry is still alive?

Yes.

And, and with Yes.

Yes, yes.

It's kind of a two-parter actually, because you know, obviously you're, you're a very strong and independent woman, and I've, I've run into.

Strong, independent women who don't care for chivalrous actions like opening the door.

I was raised to do all that stuff, but I've been told not to.

They're too much in their masculine energy.

Okay?

Okay.

That's why I said you have to like, because I'm, you know, being a single mom, I've, I've been that person where like guys have been like, don't you touch that door?

And I'm like, I'm sorry, you know, but it's like in the way that I vet, I can say like, I have been meeting amazing men who won't let me touch a door.

I can't touch a car door.

I can't touch a, a, a a, a regular door.

And they just make me feel so soft.

And it's once I slowed down and just said, okay.

Just let him, let him do what he wants.

Let him do what he needs to do.

I'm just gonna sit here and feminine energy.

It's the energy of receiving.

And that's what more women need to realize.

You know?

Yes, you can have your own business, and in that world, be that boss.

You need that structure.

You need that masculine energy.

But at home and in a relationship, slow it down.

Be soft.

Let him treat you.

Let him, you know, let him pamper you.

Let him love on you.

Accept what he's trying to give you.

I, I'm very, I've been trying to give to you for a while.

I've never been a single parent, but I am a very, in, my dad raised a tomboy.

I'm a very independent woman.

Yeah.

I am the woman that says, you are, you're with me and you're beside me.

Or.

I could do this by myself.

And I, sometimes you'll do it by yourself.

I don't need anybody.

And so I, I have to remember that, that it's a very rare, yeah.

I'm hard.

I'm hard, hard.

I, listen, I started getting my nails done just so I could be more feminine.

Yeah.

Because I don't open, I don't open cans anymore.

Something that simple.

Yeah.

I do not open cans anymore.

If it's a can of something, either my son or whatever man is, can you open this for me please?

That made it, it made me more feminine rather than just, you know, so I had to do things to, to put me in that feminine energy.

And it doesn't So that, and it, it's, it doesn't take away, I'm sorry.

It doesn't take away from your independence.

It doesn't take away from your, it doesn't, it doesn't.

And also, men have a hero complex.

They want to know that they're needed.

Yeah, totally.

Like.

Next time you're out ask a stranger to open a can and see how excited he gets that you ask him to open a can of soda.

It's amazing.

I do it on purpose all the time.

Just to see.

Let me tell you what you just said.

And I, and my little brain said I don't care.

You said to have a, that's the mindset change.

You said men have to be heroes.

And I'm like, I don't, I don't need them to be a hero for me.

And, but no, you are.

Right.

Because, and that's what it is.

But you, you start by giving them little things to do.

Yes.

' cause yeah, I mean, I will YouTube anything.

I had a old car.

I YouTubed how to change the brake lights.

I YouTubed everything rather than, rather than ask somebody, I remember one time I was at a gas station putting air in my tire and a man came over and said, can I help you?

I said, nah, I'm good.

I don't need your help.

And when I got in the car, I was like.

Why didn't you just let him help you?

I know, he, it was a nice, and I mean, I literally, nah, I'm good, just mean enough for no reason.

And I was like, you can't keep doing this, you know, except help.

Feminine energy.

It's the energy of receiving.

So I, it's just being more mindful about, mindful asking for the little things, and then eventually you'll be able to ask for help with the big, remember, small mindset changes.

Fine, fine, fine.

I believe in you, Pris.

You can do it.

I believe in you.

Baby steps.

Little baby steps.

You know, I always say we started this podcast and as we've taken on guests, she's like, that was a really good guest.

I learned a lot from them.

And I'm like, oh, you know, this is our own form of therapy sometimes, you know, well, you know, because I'm such a I stay in my own head.

I am, I, I make my own little ground.

Like this is me and this is how you're gonna take me.

I have to remember that it's not that way.

Like we all, and it's two people.

You have to accept someone else into your life.

No, we've had this conversation before.

Oh God, don't break a nail putting gas in my car.

This conversation before your cans, baby don't.

Hey, you know I made rice for dinner tonight.

Yes, he did.

He cooked.

I cooked part of the dinner.

Dinner.

I cooked half the dinner.

I did some stuff.

See, there you go.

Helping each other now Ms.

Nookie, I've got one, one last question before we wrap up here.

Something I'm kind, kind of curious about as far as the lifestyle is concerned, if someone in the lifestyle says, we are great at the fun part, but not great at talking about the hard stuff, what's the first baby step you'd recommend that they take?

The first thing I would say, well write down what you can't say and give it to your partner.

Write it down.

Both of you write down the things that you can't say and exchange those papers and sit with those papers for let's say a day or two.

And then see what you see.

See what you want to talk about together and know that what you're writing is how you're feeling.

And both of you are going to listen.

You're gonna hold space for when that person is talking.

You are gonna listen to understand and not listen to respond.

'cause that's the way to effectively communicate.

Listen to understand.

You cannot, like, don't, you cannot invalidate what your partner feels.

'cause that's that, that's the key.

Well, I feel like you're not doing this.

You can't feel that way.

I did da, da, da da.

That's the worst thing to say.

You have to hold space for them.

Let them know that you hear them and you want to work through it.

If you truly love each other, you will hold that space.

Now, if, if I tell you to do this and you can't do it, then maybe you guys aren't suited to be together because you don't care enough about each other to actually listen.

'cause that's what that is.

It's being brave enough to know that you're being heard and everyone wants to be heard.

You're being heard and you're being understood.

And, you know, that's the vulnerability part of relationships that's very scary for both people.

Very scary.

You know, I'm, I'm a super strong person, so it takes a lot for me to ask for help even, and like, 'cause you know, if I ask you for help and you tell me no, I'm like, well, shit, I could've done it my damn self, you know what I'm saying?

Like, what's the, you know, so I gotta get out of my head.

But when I, when you get me to a space where I feel like I can depend on you.

And I can ask for help or I can say, you know, I really didn't like when you did this and know that it's not gonna cause an argument.

And then I'm the same way.

I can't invalidate your truth.

That's what it is.

We gotta stop trying to invalidate someone else's truth, someone else's feelings.

We need to understand them and say, okay, I hear that you feel this way.

What can I do to make you feel better?

What can I do?

I, I will try my best to not do this again.

'cause we're not perfect.

We may mess up, we may forget and, and, you know, do that thing again.

But if I do it again, tell me in the moment that I, that I did it, and I will apologize and I will try not to.

Now that story shouldn't have worked forever.

You can't keep messing up 10, 10 times, you know, maybe once or twice.

After the third time, that's a pattern.

And that person could be taken advantage of you thinking that, oh, all I gotta do is say sorry, and they're just gonna forgive me.

I'm gonna come back.

We're not doing that.

You know what I'm saying?

But it's, it's just, it's knowing, being genuine with people and just being open to hearing, hearing things that you don't wanna hear about yourself, when you, I really don't like when you do this.

And that may be something that you love to do and understand, okay, I know that I love to do it, but you don't like to do it so I won't do it.

Or, you know, can I do it maybe once in a while?

'cause you know, I really like it.

You know, it's really those type it's a negotiation.

It's a negotiation.

Be really to any relationship requires negotiation, reciprocity, negotiation.

And I think that's part of the problem with dating people.

They, because I, I tell people about a list I say.

Your list should be in three forms.

I tell, I tell people to get a notebook.

The first one, the characteristics of the person that you want, the type of relationship that you want with this person, and the most important one, how are you gonna show up for the relationship?

Because a lot of people I want, want, want, want, want, want, want.

Well, what are you gonna do?

And then it's crickets.

They don't know just what they're gonna do because they only think about what they want.

So it's, it's knowing that it's a whole other person and you're both different.

You have to be willing to give up some things and you have to be willing to give some things.

And that's the key to a successful anything is knowing that it's a negotiation and it's not all one way.

And that things we change what you agreed to two years ago, you may talk about it and it's gonna change in five years because we grow, our weight fluctuates.

So why do we think that our relationship didn't fluctuate?

Why wouldn't we think that things would change?

It's impossible to think that person or you are going to be the same for.

It's just impossible.

Just be real.

I love that.

His nookie dropping bombs on us over here.

That's right.

Bombs over here.

I love it, man.

Ms.

nookie.

Okay, before, before I get into this outro, I'm just gonna say nookie notes for non-monogamous people.

You have to do that.

You gotta do that.

You gotta do that.

And if you need any help, let me know.

I I can, and for sure we need to get together because we can have this conversation all night long and, you know, if, you know, we can always talk about a masterclass that's Yes.

Yeah.

And if you ever want me to come back and so I'm, I'm here for you guys.

'cause I love what you guys are doing.

I love what you guys are doing.

I think what you guys are doing is truly, is truly a service that's needed.

Because, you know, to you're breaking away the stigma of the lifestyle.

Especially when, when, when people are married.

You know, I like to tell my couples, you know, you craft your relationship.

It doesn't matter what society says.

It's whatever you two agree upon whatever that is.

Because your happiness is what's ma is what matters.

Everyone from the outside, ignore them.

It's whatever makes you two happy.

And as long as you're always in agreement on, as long as the lines of communication are constantly open that's, that's the key.

Yeah.

That's the key.

That's the key.

So you guys are definitely something that is needed in society to say, Hey, we've done this, our whole entire relationship and we are happy as hell.

Yeah.

So, you know, there is happiness in a lifestyle relationship.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So whatever you need me for, just shoot me an email.

I'm here.

Yes.

I'm definitely here for it.

You are becoming fast.

One of my favorite people.

Yes.

So, Ms.

Nookie, this has been an incredible conversation.

This is the kind of conversation that reminds us why we started Beyond Monogamy in the first place.

Because this lifestyle isn't just about play, it's about connection.

It's about safety.

It's about learning to communicate like grown ass adults who still know how to flirt.

Yep.

Exactly.

I love that Ms.

Nookie brings both the science and the sass.

She makes communication sexy.

Again, if you wanna learn more about her work or grab your own set of Nookie notes, go check her out at Love Mastery Institute and follow her socials.

You'll find everything you need to link up with her in our show notes and our show website.

Under the guest bio, trust us, you'll thank us later.

Yes.

And as always, you can find us at www.beyond-monogamy.com.

Leave us a voicemail on our confessional page.

Drop a review wherever you listen and catch us on Full Swap Radio every Thursday

at 2:00 PM and 7:00 PM Central time.

Big thanks to Ms.

Nookie for joining us.

Wonderful lady.

Thank you guys so much for having me.

This was amazing.

We loved it so much.

We can't wait to see you again 'cause we're definitely gonna have you back on.

Yes.

And to all of you listening, we appreciate you listening and we will see you guys next week.

Bye