Well, I want to welcome everyone to the Celebrate Kids podcast.

This is our daily segment, Facing the Dark.

And this is a different segment, Dr.

Kathy.

We're doing this at night here on Wednesday, September 10th.

And earlier this afternoon, a person that we've followed, that we've spoken at an event of his, Turning Point Educators, Charlie Kirk, was assassinated.

It was a, it's a somber day.

I mean, I've been watching the news, Dr.

Kathy, and kind of processing all of the things because this, Charlie Kirk ended up being really a hero to, I would say my kids, a hero in the, I think the best sense of the word, right?

Like a hero, meaning that he was somebody that caused them to dive deeper into life.

I would say a hundred percent to know what they think and why they think it.

But even more, Charlie Kirk loved Jesus, and it came through in his Instagram posts and his Twitter posts.

He loved Jesus, and I think he actually really loved kids.

He really wanted to celebrate kids.

We saw that at the Turning Point Educator Summit that you spoke at this last year, a couple months ago, actually, with Charlie there.

He really wanted us to be a nation that cared about kids and taught them well.

And you were asked to come to the Turning Point Educator Summit to do that, to teach teachers how to love kids and how to love them well through the 8th grade smarts.

I think it's kind of incredible.

But we're in a place right now where we're mourning a believer, a fellow brother in Christ.

And I think it could be really disheartening, especially for kids.

I know that my two kids came home from school today.

and said, did you hear about Charlie Kirk?

And they said it with really sadness in their eyes.

I mean, they literally were encouraged by him.

I would say inspired.

They had a similar spirit, if I could break that word down, to what Charlie was talking about, what he cared about.

And it gave them encouragement.

Dr.

Kathy, I want to ask you, as we kind of start off this podcast, For some of us, we've got kids who really followed Charlie or knew of Charlie or were kind of impacted in some different ways.

How do you think we can give our kids courage to believe that they can have beliefs and have them kind of held with convictions, knowing that there is, you know, others that would be out there that would be angry at Yeah, I'm glad we're doing this tonight really hard.

I wasn't sure I could do it tonight that I would have thoughts put together, but I think we are reminded that there are not a lot of promises in the holy, accurate, relevant, transforming word of God.

There is no promise that if you represent Christ well and save many people from hell because they meet Jesus through your ministry or your family love that you're gonna be guaranteed a long life on earth.

I think part of what happens here is a very real somber perspective on our goals and our preferences and our purposes based on our loves, in our lives with no guarantee for tomorrow.

As many people have posted on Facebook, Charlie lived, Charlie Kirk lived a bold and brave existence.

I want young people to do that.

I want to echo what you were saying.

I've heard from many people actually on Facebook, the primary social media tool that I use.

that their teenagers and young adults are devastated, that it is the first time in their lives that they have lost someone just like your oldest boys, who they felt that they knew, who was representing the Jesus that they loved to a culture that's gone dark.

And I want us to pay attention to young people.

So if you're listening today and you have teenage, young adult, grandchildren and children and coworkers, please recognize that They are most likely affected by this, and we would be wise to be open to conversations, and we would be unwise to be flippant, and I pray none of us are that way.

And yet, you know, back to your question, we talk to our kids about courage.

We talk to our kids about truth.

We talk to our kids about, you know, what Charlie Kirk did was answer people's questions and always point them to Jesus.

You know, right?

You and I have both heard him say things like, that's a great question.

What you really need is the answer to the more important question is, you know, where does salvation come from?

So I would want young people to know that Charlie had lived a life that was purposeful and he was called, he was a warrior, he was brave.

And can they carry that into their tomorrows?

No guarantee.

And I think weighing for parents and grandparents and educators, we're careful how we advise our kids, right?

You know, do we want our kids to do that?

No guarantee.

You know, what if you're raising a bold warrior?

What if you're raising a kid who knows biblical worldview and is becoming articulate and is sad and discouraged about friends who don't know Jesus or angry at a culture in a school that, you know, says that anything goes?

You know, what are you gonna, is it okay with you if that kid, develops even more boldness because of the passing of Charlie Kirk.

What, what did you, can I ask you, like, what did you say to your boys when they said you heard about Charlie Kirk, right?

Like you and Nancy are raising your boys to have biblical worldview and an understanding of living on purpose and stepping in your, your son.

One of your sons is the, uh, one of the co-chaplains at the school.

Like you're training him to be bold with his faith.

Did Yeah, Dr.

Kathy, I mean, the reality for us is our kids listen to a lot of different people and I like that.

I like to guide them into different conversations and different people that they follow and then talk to them about it.

Charlie's one of those people that I really appreciate in my son's life.

I appreciate his message because of the dynamic of what he talks about.

It's this, the beauty of this, Caring for the politic the body politic the polis the the city He has this vision for community that is actually redemptive and restorative.

That's beautiful And so when my kids came home, it was one of those times where we just sat quiet Yeah, you know I heard I heard that you know, and we gave space for there to be silence and sadness, mourning.

Um, I think the natural thing a lot of times is that we want to, you know, kind of jump into conversation.

How do you feel about that?

What are these other things?

And I do really think that there is, it's okay to have, and we experienced, I don't know, practice this at our house tonight where it was just a time of quiet.

And I heard that and, Now let's just kind of sit down and let some things be heavy.

It's okay to let things be heavy, and it's okay to have a time of quiet wandering.

And I call it wandering and wandering because my mind likes to go places, Dr.

Kathy, and that's okay.

Why am I sad about this guy that I, you know, I saw him on stage at this event in Florida, right?

That's the extent of my personal engagement or interaction with him.

But the dynamic of a brother in Christ who I watched, you know, really raises kids to get married four years ago.

He was married in 2021.

He has a incredibly loving wife.

She's got a great podcast.

He's got a great podcast.

They've been on each other's podcasts.

There's some sweetness in them.

And anytime that a life is lost, no matter what, like they're, Anytime that somebody dies by anything, it should be a time where we let the heaviness of the loss of life be there.

And I think that's okay.

So that's I like that.

I like quiet.

You know, I teach the summit students that in quiet wisdom rises.

When we're quiet, the soul is restored.

And the spirit can, doesn't have to break through as much clutter.

And I think the, the presence, the present of presence is beautiful.

And we need to say to the people listening to us, and thank you so much for trusting us with your time that you don't have to have answers.

You don't even have to have the right scripture for the right moment.

You're you're there and you feel feelings.

Children are.

known and feel very valued and secure and safe when their feelings are acknowledged.

And so to feel their feelings and to share yours, if you're able to be vulnerable, I would say, especially in this first 24, 48 hours of processing this tragedy that was shocking, I think that's more important than having something to say.

So I love that the Lord led you there, because you're a man of many words.

You have great wisdom.

You could have quoted any number of you know, important people's thoughts and scripture, and you simply were there in case they wanted to keep talking, and that was more important to you than your need to talk.

I think that was brilliantly You know, Dr.

Cathy, that also makes me wonder a little bit, because as I sat there with my sons, you know, like you said, we are raising them to be people that engage the culture.

We love Summit because I really believe that what Summit Ministries does, the work with Dr.

Jeff and his entire team at Summit, they're giving kids a solid foundation, ideas, thoughts, reasons behind what they understand to be true in the world.

And they're actually giving them logic for why it is true in the world.

That's something that Charlie Kirk did very well.

And I think in these times, sometimes our kids can maybe even like hear these things that happen.

and get to this place where they're wondering, um, you know, is this, is this worth it?

You know, is this worth it when, and, and I think in the grand scheme of things, when you follow the life of Charlie Kirk and yeah, I would say even like the life of any convicted, convinced believer.

I'd say that about you, I'd say it about Dr.

Jeff.

There is this heart that comes through that says, I know this to be true and I can't keep it inside, right?

It's a little bit of, the bones are gonna cry out and sometimes our bones get really tired because we're on the road a lot and we're doing these things, but you still speak, Dr.

Jeff still speaks.

Charlie Kirk is one also that traveled around and spoke just because he had to share the good news of Christ and what he knew to be true in the world.

We want to raise that in our kids.

What would you say when we're looking at this dynamic, are there characteristics or are there attitudes, are there things that we can step into, not to raise up, I don't want to like, I don't know if I, I don't want to get to that place where we're like deifying you know, Charlie Kirk or Jeff Myers or John Stone Street or these other people to say, I want my kids to be like that.

But I want my kids to have a conviction that they have.

And really those men, all the men that I listed, will point to Jesus.

How do we get our kids to have that conviction in their beliefs and their confidence in their identity that they can stand up and be confident no matter what the world throws at them or Wayne, I love that question.

They do need to be confident in themselves, not arrogant and not a pushy, like, have you met me?

I'm amazing, which is my line as a joke line when I'm with young people, but to have a confidence that God did a good work when he made them them and certainly an ability to be articulate and to, to think and to teach and to reason, to discern so that they have an inner awareness and a confidence that this is the truth.

And so I think, are we teaching them that?

Are we teaching them to think and to reason?

And are we introducing them to voices?

Do we take them to guest lectures in a town nearby so that they can experience different voices?

And then do we talk with them afterwards about what was your favorite idea?

What are you curious about?

And is he somebody that you'd wanna follow?

Why or why not?

Are we teaching them those kinds of things?

And then how do we talk about Jesus, Wayne?

Is he a Sunday morning?

inconvenience that we get together and talk about and worship?

Is he the beginning and the end of all that we are and all that we think and feel?

Do we point out to our children, oh, like one of my favorite things to say to people is to say, you know, oh, you made Jesus look so good.

Like that decision you made, the way that you worshiped, um, the way that you, um, confronted in love and stood up for your faith.

Oh, Jesus looks so good in you.

And they'll look at me.

It's just, it's just fun to say, no, I saw the Jesus in you just now, you know, Jesus in your heart.

And do we let our kids know that, you know, that Jesus did that for you?

You know, I wonder how many times we take credit for things that we had nothing to do with, you know, but it was Jesus who was operating, and we were maybe a vessel that was privileged to be present in the room, if you will, but do we say to our kids, You know, Jesus has equipped you.

Jesus is empowering you.

Jesus has motivated you.

Jesus has made you a curious learner.

Jesus has created you to be compassionate with those who don't learn quite as well as you.

And I love watching you interact with them.

And you, I think one of the favorite things I've noticed about you is giving hope to people.

Is that right?

Do you enjoy giving hope to people as much as I think you do?

Like, are we looking for Jesus in our young people?

so that they know that he's already active and already doing something.

You don't have to grow up.

Like Charlie Kirk was young when he started.

He's still young, 31 years old.

You know, Dr.

Cathy, within that, one of the things that I've loved about Charlie Kirk is that he rarely talks about things he's against, right?

So he will answer a question.

He'll talk about being for life.

When he's asked about even like immigration, he'll talk about the dynamics of the things that he's for inside of the country and the way that, you know, God instituted you know, different things inside of people to respect and cherish other, you know, humanity, but also how we have to be a place that, you know, respects laws.

And so he says he's a person for laws.

He's not against immigrants, right?

There's kind of a dynamic inside of all of the things when he would answer a question that he would talk about what he's for.

And in that, though, at the same time, he really did, in my opinion, really confront evil in a really unique and powerful way.

And when we hear this news about Charlie Kirk's passing, it is evil.

It's evil because of the loss of life.

It's evil because the loss of life separates those of us that are living from a relationship.

with each other.

So it's evil because it's devoid of what God would be, because God is a God that gives life.

But I want to know a little bit, too, from your perspective, when we talk to our kids about evil, how should we do that?

Is there a need to have our kids understand evil and, you know, feel kind of the weight and the gravity of that?

And how do we talk to them about, especially like this kind of evil that's happening in the world where there is really such hatred that it would I think age appropriately, we must talk about evil and the root of evil is sin.

Let's talk about sin.

I don't think we talk about sin enough.

I was talking to a good friend last night who made a really cool comment about Cain from the scripture, and she said, don't underestimate the power of sin.

And this was last night before any of this happened.

I said, wait, say that again?

We were talking about life, and she's like, we can't underestimate the power of sin.

Sin, unfortunately, is real.

You know, I don't, God didn't intend for it to ever happen.

It did.

And it's his way.

What would you say, Wayne?

It's, I mean, it causes us to need a savior.

So, I mean, part of me wants to say that the beauty of what God allowed to have happen with sin is that we are decrepit and we are sinful people in need of a savior.

We can't save ourselves.

We'll never be good enough, clean enough, wise enough, whatever.

And we need Jesus to rescue us from the depravity of our mind and our heart.

One of the things I sometimes say, Wayne, and you might remember this when we've had other podcast episodes after tragic things that happened, are we living like life matters?

Like we're grieving the loss of an amazing man who lived on purpose, with purpose, for purpose, and changed culture and individuals and was embraced in heaven.

We know that.

Good heavens, are we living like the life that Jesus died that we would have matters?

Because otherwise You know, Dr.

Cathy, the dynamic of Charlie's life is that he did live on purpose.

And I believe really with that statement that you have, on purpose, with a purpose, for a purpose, it was very clear to everybody that he was doing that.

I would say even in his family, with his wife, he lived with his wife on purpose, with a purpose, for a purpose.

He loved being a dad.

He would talk about it.

A lot, you know, he just had this love for kids.

And one of the unique privileges that we've had here at Celebrate Kids is to be recognized by Charlie's group, Turning Point Educators, now Turning Point Academy, that they saw the work that we're doing, celebrating kids.

And that's something that Charlie loved to do.

He wanted to celebrate kids.

and he did it in a really powerful and unique way.

He celebrated kids by giving courage to other people in the world to go out and start schools and launch church-based schools that communicate the gospel on purpose and that have a Christian bend with, he really liked the classical model, right?

So that they read good books and they understand character formation, because that's in the good books.

That's why you read good books.

And it drove everything that he was about, really, inside of the educator arm, which was a primary part of his ministry.

I would say, I would really call it a ministry.

You know, when we were doing Turning Point Academy, when you spoke there, across the street from us, there was like, what, 6,000 kids that were at this huge convention hall.

And we were teachers, knowing that across the street, there's 6,000 young people that are being encouraged, that are hearing the gospel from the stage, from Charlie Kirk and others that were speaking there.

And he really wanted to celebrate kids.

You know, when we think about this, Dr.

Kathy, we celebrate kids not because we're inspired by Charlie Kirk to go and celebrate kids, but we celebrate kids because of what Jesus did.

and how Jesus celebrated kids.

And I really believe that Charlie celebrated kids because Jesus celebrated kids.

He noticed that, right?

And so I would say even when we look at the legacy of Charlie Kirk, that's gonna be the legacy.

It's not that he wanted to establish some kind of political rule or political movement.

He really wanted to establish a movement of young people who know Jesus.

And so when we look at this, Dr.

Cathy, can you walk through a little bit of even like, that inspiration for you from Jesus to celebrate kids and how you really saw Charlie Kirk as a co-laborer with that maybe Yeah, thank you so much for those words, Wayne.

You know, one of my favorite scriptural examples is when the learned men were kind of whispering and they said to Jesus, who among us is the greatest?

You know, a very typical question for today even, right?

Like, who's the most popular and how many people come to your church and who among us is the greatest?

And Jesus saw a child and called up a child to stand with him.

And I've always pictured the learned men whispering among themselves, did he hear the question right?

because the children were ignored back when Jesus was on earth.

They were hidden, they weren't spoken to, they weren't relevant really in the culture in any way until they aged up, but they were valued by Jesus because if you don't value them now, their tomorrows will be very different.

He received their praise in the temple.

There's no verse that says, be quiet, be quiet.

And the disciples were like, they're very loud.

And he's like, have you not heard, you know, children can praise me.

I, that's a bad paraphrase, but you know, that's, that's part of what's going on there.

You know, it says in the scripture that if anyone causes a child who believes harm, then a large millstone should be hung across our neck and we should be tossed into the depths of the sea.

So Wayne, if we cause a little one who believes in Jesus to sin, a large millstone is hung around our neck and we're tossed into the sea.

We would die in the sea if it was a small millstone hung around our neck.

But it's a large millstone because we caused a little one who believes in Jesus to sin.

Like he takes children seriously.

In fact, could I remind all of our listeners that Mary, our Lord and Savior's mother, was a kid, 13 or 14 years old when the angel knocked on the door and said, you've been chosen.

Now, we all know from Scripture, because prophecy, that the mother of Jesus needed to be a virgin, but he could have found a 35-year-old experienced woman who was a virgin, who had lived life longer and had more maturity, but he chooses a kid.

And this is what I see in Charlie Kirk.

He valued young people enough to lose his life for them versus people who think that young people, you know, can't learn or, um, they're not, they're not worth investing in yet.

But Charlie Kirk, um, was passionately concerned about their confusion, angry about it, wanted them to know the truth, wanted our country changed.

because young people would know the truth and wouldn't get sucked into the mess.

And I always pointed them to the most important answer, which would be Jesus Christ for their salvation.

So it's very humbling, very privileged to have been a part of an event for them and to see their work up close.

It will continue.

It'll be different.

It'll be interesting to see what the Lord does.

But for us to value young people, for us to not want our young people to be confused, for us to know the truth and to proclaim it in such a convincing manner, because we do talk about what we know to be true more than what