Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we have Lisa Concepcion, better known as The Love Coach with us.

Welcome Lisa.

Thank you for having me.

So fun.

have you here.

Our first question is always, what year were you born?

1971.

so were we.

All right.

I love it.

Good year.

That's right.

So you're Gen X.

yeah, legit Gen X.

Bronx, New York.

Nice.

Nice.

OK, so do you have siblings?

I do not, only child.

And were your parents from the Bronx?

And how did they meet?

Do you know?

wow.

So parents were children of old family friends that they lived in the same building.

Yeah.

And so that's how they met.

Like I have pictures somewhere in my family of my mom and dad, little kids at their birthday parties.

Yeah.

And then what happened was, well, kind of until my mom was about, I'd say 11 or 12, they moved.

to Long Island.

Okay, so there was friendship there with the adults.

But then my dad at like 16 decides to take a ride to Long Island to go see that family, the family that my mom was from.

And it's one of these moments, you know, like my mom comes down the stairs, my dad is there, they see each other and it's like, Well, and that was probably the first time they went seeing each other in four or five years.

yeah, since they were kids.

I mean, there was like family functions and things, but they were children.

And then time goes by and people don't look the same as they did when they were 12.

Well, that's beauty of that time, though.

There was no social media.

There was no technology.

you have a romance and that the nuances that go along with all of it could exist.

100%.

And I mean, this is what I talk about all the time now with clients that they are, how do you date now?

There's nothing there anymore.

There's no sense of surprise.

Everything is out in the open.

Everybody can just go and stalk each other on social media.

You don't really know.

Oh, she has a dog just by looking at her social media.

yeah.

Yeah.

No.

And back then, I mean, so when your parents, was that it for them?

Did they start dating and that was it?

So they start to date and my dad was still living in the Bronx.

My mom was living on Long Island and yeah, they started to date.

They dated from when they were like 16.

They got engaged, I guess by 1920, got married, had me like two years later.

My parents are young.

Like my mom is only 22 years older than I, my dad's 23 years older than Oh wow.

Wow.

Well back then, because what are we talking about?

Let's see, were, that was what?

was born, so they were married I believe in 69.

Okay, yeah.

I mean, my parents got married young like that too, and they got married, I think, in 68.

I think my mom was 20 or 21.

didn't it seem like back then if you weren't married by the time you were 25 it was like, spinster.

Right.

100%.

Well, because that's what women were supposed to that was your meaning of life, right?

my mom got married, I believe, before her older sister.

And I think my aunt married like two years later.

Like I wasn't alive yet when my aunt got married, but I know that my mom married first.

And it was like a thing.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I think that pressure.

mean, honestly, I feel like that pressure has been on women really up until the Gen Z women and the Gen Z women are the first women to be like, no, I'm going to live my 20s, 30s, do what I want.

And a guy is going to be in addition to my life, but I don't need him.

I feel like they're the first ones claiming that space.

I don't know.

I kind of feel it started a little with me.

Like I was in my 20s getting that programming.

You know, the go to college, have a career, you know, you don't have to get married.

Just yeah, it was very conflicting because part of the messaging in the 90s was like, if you don't get married by the time you're 30, like what good are you?

But at the same time, like, hey, what kind of idiot are you?

Any?

you know, anyone with a college degree and a brain should be able to make six figures by the time they're 30.

And you're like, well, wait, which one is it?

I'm confused.

It was a lot of confusion.

I think we were kind of served up this like sex in the city lifestyle, but at the same time we were like, but we want to have kids.

Like how does this happen?

So there was a lot of confusion for that gen X in the thirties when we were in our thirties, I think.

I think and when we were young in the 80s, we were sold that bring home the bacon concept of you can go to work, you can get married, you can have children, you can hold down a great, clean, perfect house.

You can, you know, have sex with your husband regularly.

You can do it all.

You can be all the things.

And we were told that.

And so we we grinded and grinded trying to be all the things and we were and that's you know some of us are we're in constant fight or flight from that hyper vigilant all of that stuff and i feel like now that we're getting into mid-lifes it's like now we're kind of stopping and looking around saying wait a minute we were sold a lie and we sold ourselves for that in a way Yeah, we were for sure into the program and they served it up.

And luckily for us though, to be very fair to the younger ladies out there, we didn't graduate college with this ridiculous debt.

Like I paid off my college, half of it while I was in college.

Right?

Well school is a uh lot more affordable too I think.

It's so expensive now compared I went to Rutgers University, class of 93.

It was $48,000 for all of it.

Now that's like a, that's a year.

That's, you know, now it's like 30 grand a year or something like that.

no, it's true.

Everything that they're encountering now, like even rent.

You know, our daughter graduated from college two years ago, lived at home, saved money and is this weekend moving into her own apartment.

But she needed to do that in order to even be able to live on her own to not have it.

She didn't want a roommate.

So to be at 24 and living on her own, she had to set herself up just to do something that we would have just done automatically without even thinking about it.

It's crazy.

hard for them.

And I feel like the big thing that we have such an opportunity to focus on, and I feel like they're deliberately dividing the sexes, it is the economic issue.

So if women and men, instead of fighting each other and we see them all over online, said, hey, wait a minute, they're making us fight each other, but really the big problem is the economy.

Like we can't afford anything.

We can't afford to leave our parents.

ever.

And this isn't right.

And if they unified and kind of went at it from that angle, then we win, all of us collectively.

Because now the Gen X people are like, hey, we're trying to take care of our parents while simultaneously taking care of kids.

We're smack in the middle of all of it.

Yep, we're sandwich.

call it the sandwich?

We're sandwich, we're the sandwich generation.

Okay, so your parents, they got married and they settled in the Bronx, not Long Island.

They settle in the Bronx, but my mother did not like that.

And it was a point of contention in the marriage early on because you know, back in that day, they don't talk about the important things like, where do you want to live?

How do you want to raise your kids?

So they were kids themselves.

So here's my dad, a city boy thinking, no, at least I'll, you know, go to school, public school, just like I did.

And my mother was like, no way she's going to Catholic school if we live in the Bronx.

And my father was like, well, that's very expensive and I'm not about religion thing so we have you know that'll fight so they divorced by the time I was three wow.

they were young and you're right no one discuss roles or how are going to raise children or anything at all.

Nothing of anything of meat, of importance, the key things.

do you?

motions.

You get married, you have children and everything's just supposed to work out.

But meanwhile, behind the scenes.

And the prompt can be very whole different life and they never communicated on it.

My mother had a vision of, I want to have three kids.

I want to live in a house in Long Island.

I want them to have the grass and the fields and the bike riding in the street and the whole thing.

And my dad was a Bronx guy, city guy, still is in Brooklyn.

I'm trying to get him to move finally.

I mean, the Bronx is tough, especially compared to Long Island, right?

Long Island has neighborhoods, the Bronx, not so much.

Yeah, I mean, so I had the benefit of being a city kid on the weekends and a suburban kid on the weekdays.

So I had that luxury of knowing what it was to eat at a high end restaurant, knowing museums and theater.

And my dad was very into that.

He wanted to expose me to stuff as a kid.

And he said, you're not going to be like those Long Island people who never go into the city.

What's funny?

I was like, yeah, like I'll ride the six train.

I'm good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice.

Nice.

So that when they divorced, you went with your mom.

Yeah, so I went with my mom, but like I said, I was, you know, very with my dad and my grandparents.

They lived in the Bronx too.

So every weekend it was my dad, then my stepmother, then my grandparents.

So it was very family.

Like I always had aunts, uncles, cousins, people.

When I came home from school, was, somebody was always there.

So it was latch key-ish, meaning my mother was working, but I would come home and like my godmother was there.

My other cousins were there.

So there was always some sort of supervision going on You were growing up amongst the village, literally.

Yes.

And I'm Latina.

So it was, you know, Hispanic family, Puerto Rican, Chilean, that whole thing.

And you know, you didn't, you looked at your aunt as another mother.

There was always somebody.

I mean, it's cool.

I mean, everybody's all up in your business, but at the same time as a kid growing up, you never really feel alone, but yet you're fending for yourself in that environment.

If that makes any sense.

Yeah, it does.

the 70s and it's like who's smoking weed in what room and who's listening to like music with their friends.

And I'm kind of there alone in that environment, which my mom didn't really.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So you're in Long Island and that's where you had your uh elementary school years, junior high.

Do call it junior high or middle school?

was junior high and then high school, all of it, Long Island.

Levittown, Long Island.

And then during elementary school and middle school, did you play any sports or were you involved in any arts or clubs or anything theater?

I played softball.

I started when I was nine years old and I stopped when I was 39.

I always played ball.

Yeah.

And I also cheerleaded.

I did that a little bit of soccer thrown in there, but it didn't take.

was like it's that's a little much.

But yeah, I was always a very athletic kid, even playing in the street.

You know, I used to joke around.

I play softball in the burbs and stick ball in the Bronx.

gonna ask you if you did stickball.

Yeah.

that squishy Spalding ball.

oh that's so great, though, because you really did have the best of both worlds.

You know, you.

eighties, it was amazing.

Like kids break dancing in the street.

Like that was a thing.

It was cool.

remember when all of that started, but you were like right there.

That's so cool.

So was it ever a culture shock?

Did you ever spend time like the weekend in the Bronx as things were hitting the city and you'd go back to Long Island and these other kids have no clue yet what's going on?

Like you were kind of ahead a little bit.

So I have a story about exactly that.

Because I was very much in the city, I was always up on fashion and up on what was the hottest things, what the kids were doing.

So I was always the first to bring the trends to school.

And I remember Jordache jeans hit hard.

It was like going from second grade into third grade for me.

and the stepmom, she was all in, I'm buying this kid Jordache, Lisa, you're going back to school with Jordache jeans and style.

And then the other parents, like, you my mom's like, I'm gonna get her sassoon.

I mean, then Sergio Valente, I mean, I went back to school with this wardrobe and all the kids were just, I mean, imagine it.

I come walking into school and all the kids, they'll go home.

that day.

Mommy, I want Sergio Valente jeans.

Mommy, want Jordy S jeans.

Mommy, this is what's cool at school.

I want this.

I want that.

So the parents complain to the teacher about me.

And let me tell you what, it was the worst thing that can happen because my father comes rolling up to the school in a suit because he was in banking at the time.

my gosh, he comes rolling up.

He's got the Mont Blanc pen in his pocket, the whole thing.

And he rolls up and the teacher's like, we have a problem.

know, these kids, their parents are calling and complaining that the standard for dressing is being ridiculous and it's disturbing kids and taking their focus off of education.

We're not running a fashion show.

This is school.

And my father said flat out, you're not telling me what I put on my kid.

If I'm going to buy her whatever, that's what I could afford.

And that's what she's wearing.

As long as she's polite, respectful, she's not disturbing other kids.

She's not bullying anybody.

She's just rolling up looking good.

That's a you problem, not my daughter's problem.

And I have no problem saying that to any other parent that might have a problem with me or my daughter.

So my dad, he was, you know, my dad's a Marine.

So he's like a very, you know, FAFO guy.

And he wasn't having it, not having it.

Yeah.

I love it.

And so you were able to just wear what you wanted going forward.

There you go.

No, that's no way.

me and this dude and we're all dressed cute and our ass is washed.

Now, did you have an interest in fashion or was it just that you were so on top of what was trending?

So I always had an interest in fashion.

Since a little kid, my grandmother would subscribe to Vogue and Glamour and all the magazines and I would be there on a weekend and I'd read them.

I'd look through and look at the pictures and I was like obsessed with Brooke Shields.

I was like not a lot of girls look like me with dark hair.

Everything was 80s blonde and here comes Brooke Shields with these bushy eyebrows and I'm like, I love her and Gina Carrot.

What's her name?

I forget her name.

ruffle?

No, no, no, but, but yeah.

Yeah, and she was before Cindy Crawford, but she looked like Cindy Crawford first.

Janice Dickinson was there too.

Like all these brunette models back in the time.

It was like the first time I really got into that world.

And I thought that I would go into advertising, because I would always look at the makeup ads, and I was always fascinated with that.

I'd make my own little collages and things.

But yeah, I always was into looking the way I wanted to look.

That's awesome.

And it sounds like your stepmom, you had a good relationship with her.

She was supportive.

How soon did your dad marry her after your parents divorced?

So I met my stepmom when I was three, which was shortly right when parents were divorcing.

And they married when I was nine.

So now I'm 54.

my stepmom, basically I've had like four parents my whole life I have had.

And it's only me.

So could you imagine like four different personalities and you have to, and plus the grandparents and you have to acquiesce and be hyper sensitive to what everybody's moods are.

Like it made me massively.

codependent in a way because it was very hyper vigilant about everyone else's mood and needs and often at the expense of my own.

Mm-hmm.

Were you people pleaser?

Yeah.

I think a lot of Gen Xers are.

Yes.

A lot of us come from divorce and remarriages and something in there, whatever it is, even from the best situation, because your situation sounds incredibly healthy and um you had good relationships with your step parents, it sounds like.

Yeah, I mean I would say no different than any other Okay relationship in that it wasn't Like it was conflict.

Of course.

I was a kid growing up There were things that I wanted to do that my parents were like no way in hell the basic stuff You know that would have happened whether it was step parents or parents, right?

But there's something about what for a lot of us, we ended up with that people pleasing that paying more attention to the adults moods and not and well, then of course, I don't think that we were raised to acknowledge our emotions.

No one talked to us about our emotions, what we're feeling, what we're going through didn't help us establish a sense of ourself in that way.

for sure.

And I think a lot of the external appearance, the, could be good at looking good, right?

That was a way of that, getting that attention, positive attention and kind of latching onto your thing that you were good at.

So as a coach, a lot of, can relate to this in my clients who are Gen X in that they say, yeah, like for me to get love from my parents, it was connected to achievement.

So I was valedictorian.

I did great in school.

did.

But what did you need?

What was missing?

Well, I really wanted more time with my dad.

I always said that.

I always was like, you know, I learned football for my dad because little kids connect dots very easily.

And the dot is, uh my dad likes the New York Jets.

He's getting season tickets to the New York Jets.

If I want alone time with my dad.

and my stepmom gets cold by October, I get to go to all the games November and I have one-on-one time with my dad.

So there's a lot of bargaining and maneuvering and that sort of thing because my father was always with stepmom and my grandparents.

And while I adore everybody, you want that one-on-one time with your dad, you need that.

Yeah, especially girls.

It's so important.

happening, some weird stuff starts to go down in puberty where you realize boys are looking at you and it's almost this psychological mind thing game in a way with your dad that you kind of say, I'm going to let that boy look at me and maybe my dad will get jealous or my dad will have like issues with it and let, Oh yeah.

Very weird, but No, I get it though.

I think because I also just all I wanted was attention with one on one time with my dad.

It was like that was the prize because he lived in a different state and then he remarried and there were stepchildren, half to all that.

All of the things and my mom too.

So it was everywhere.

felt like kind of casted aside, I would imagine, just because of distance.

uh got that, was like, and it was anything like even a dinner was like winning some award.

And so it skewed also then I had that void was because I I didn't I had a father issue probably much deeper than anything you're talking about because it does still sound like you had a very healthy relationship with your dad and probably saw him much more regularly than what I'm talking about.

But I know the way that I acted out was I tried to fill the void with boyfriends.

So I always had a boyfriend.

Yeah.

Yeah.

wasn't the boozy, drink in the woods kid.

I did it, but it wasn't really like, the thing.

I wasn't the drugs.

wasn't any of that.

I was attention.

Boys always hopping from like, like, what'd they call it?

Like the airplane, air traffic control.

One's landing.

The other one's taken off.

That was me.

I was like, yeah, it's like I joked around about it.

would be like, guys are like jobs.

Like you don't dump one until you have the other one.

And Lily Panty.

But I did have a serious, you know, high school boyfriend.

But I noticed that I would settle for a lot of BS back then.

And there was a lot of proving my worth and energy in relationships.

guys that were like, eh, and me thinking like, my God.

Yeah.

Meanwhile, I could do way better, but I didn't think I could.

But do you think that that's also our generation?

Because I feel like now the younger, like Gen Z women and younger millennial women, they have such higher standards than we did.

But then I'm wondering, is that just because those of us who didn't have a father involved with us in the right way, would we have had better standards for ourselves if we had a better relationship with our dad?

Or is that a generational thing?

Because I feel like we were kind of raised to get the attention and validation from boys and men in general.

But I don't know if we all were like that, like chasing, chasing, I'm gonna do all the things, I'm gonna be skinny and I'm gonna be pretty and I'm gonna be like whatever you like, I like.

I'm gonna transform into whatever you need.

Was that just those of us who had quote unquote daddy issues or was that all of us Gen X women in a way?

I think it's you know from what I see there are people in their 30s that have this same thing So, you know the daddy issue or the you know, the father wound It transcends generations if you're yearning for your dad It doesn't matter if you're Gen Z or Gen millennial or whatever or us or that it's a wound is a wound Granted it might express itself differently, right?

So now Instead of me going to the roller rink in my cool, joyed-ass jeans, Stephanie is taking selfies of herself and putting her in a bikini on Instagram.

And now it's not in person that boys are, Lisa, wanna skate?

Hey, I'll line up to skate with you.

Now it's DM, DM, DM, DM, come to Dubai, you know, that kind of thing.

which is almost so much more detrimental to the girl.

Well, because it's so much at once.

It's like they're drinking from a fire hose of attention.

And it's right.

And then it starts to bleed into more of a narcissistic, vapid, not really connection.

like in Gen X, when little boy came to me at 12 years old at the roller rink, Hi Lisa, do want to skate with me?

He had to cross the room, make that interaction.

You know, there had to be some kind of looking at each other, something, some cues, courage, possibility of being rejected, right?

ah That doesn't exist now.

And men are not crossing rooms for women and women are ick.

They got the ick.

You know, unless you're looking like a celebrity six, two.

210 jacked up beautiful.

I don't want to know you You're right.

You're right.

But for those boys to do that is a rite of passage, I think, to becoming a man.

And the phones have taken that.

They made it too easy.

And they don't have to really do anything to get that access to the girls or young women.

They don't have to do anything.

before that.

So do you remember when we were kids and your mom was like, it's Saturday, go and play, go out, see what your friends are doing.

And what did you do?

You went on your bike, you went to the house down the street, you knocked on the door and the mom came to the door and you said, hey, Mrs.

Jones, is Mike around?

We're playing stick ball on the street or whatever, playing tag.

You have to interact with parents.

had to ask, like, we're going to go play here.

Mike is he mowing the lawn?

Like when he's done, tell him to come up the street.

We're all outside.

You had to engage in social interaction with adults other than your parents.

That does not happen now.

There has been a massive stunting of social interaction in like the last 20 years.

And I think it magnified after COVID.

I think that really messed people up.

Absolutely.

Well remember with our landlines you'd have to call your friends and usually their parents answer and you'd have to say just what you're saying Hi, Mrs.

Jones is so and so home or if you were calling a girlfriend You'd have to ask for your girlfriend, you know talk to her parents for there's all these steps That needed these rituals whatever that needed to be taken to get to that endgame And now they can just go straight to the end.

I remember that's why it's so messed up.

I remember going to the door knocking on the door to pick your girlfriend up and then having to stand in the entryway talking to the mom or the dad.

Yeah.

Right?

I don't know if that happens as much.

telling them, you have to come to the door.

If you beep for me, I'm not coming out.

Yeah.

And now they text.

I'm here.

They write they drive up.

Or they Yes.

Or they send an Uber or they send an Uber.

Okay, so you went through high school, you were best dressed.

Were you a cheerleader in high school?

Okay.

another scandal.

oh I was a cheerleader, ninth grade, second, sport, which was basketball.

So I missed football.

I didn't try out.

I thought I was going to play soccer.

was like, not really feeling it.

And then I said, you know what?

I caught on real quick.

Like the social life, you got to be a cheerleader.

So I was like, all right, basketball season.

I'm to try out.

get on JV basketball cheerleading.

I only cheered one season.

JV.

Following year, I cheer, I try out, I get on varsity.

By like 11th grade, I was varsity.

my God, there were only three spots and I only cheered a certain amount of time and it's like, my God, she came on, she was only three seasons.

It was a big drama, know, high school drama, ridiculous.

But people were like, her tryout was solid, she was varsity, she got picked, that's it.

And it didn't really matter because then, you know, by the end of junior year, everybody else came on the team anyway because the seniors left.

So we were all together anyway.

But, you know, girls could be so catty, it's ridiculous.

about to ask you, did you deal with a lot of mean girl crap?

of that.

I kind of rolled with different people.

Although I was cheerleader, I also did very well in school.

So I would befriend the person who would be my chem chemistry partner.

Like if you sat next to me, we were going to be friends.

And there were instances where, you know, there would be parties and things.

And I would tell people like, just come, you know, and I'd use the clout.

I'd be like, just When you get to the door, bring a case of beer and say that Lisa told it's okay to come.

That's a jock party.

It's like, it's not a jock party.

It's an everybody party.

Come.

I was that girl.

I was all about everybody should get along.

Everybody should hang out and have fun.

You were inclusive.

Yeah, that's awesome.

That's awesome.

So when you graduated, did you go straight into Rutgers?

Did you know was Rutgers where you wanted to go from the start?

So I had a cousin who is nine months older than I, and she was a freshman at Rutgers while I was a senior at high school.

So I was a little confused.

I knew I wanted to go somewhere.

I didn't know where I was kind of looking at certain colleges, but nothing was really hitting me.

I wanted to go away, but be home close enough that I could like be where my family for holidays and stuff.

And I didn't have to incur any crazy expenses for.

flights and things.

And so she was there.

So she said, Lisa, why don't you come stay with me at Rutgers and just, could go up to classes.

You can see if you like it.

And if you do, we'll go to the registrar, we'll get you the packet and you can enroll and try to get in.

And so that's what ended up happening.

I went and what?

Wow.

Best weekend.

I mean, my God.

I, here I am, you know, a high school senior and I'm, you know, a school of 700 kids in Long Island not a big school right and now I go to Rutgers University and it's like 35,000 kids five campuses and I'm with my cousin she takes me into this audit this auditorium 250 kids and I'm listening to the lecture.

It's about you know mass media She was a communication major.

I was too and I'm just like my god.

I have to come here This is incredible, and I just knew that was it.

yeah, I right then like this is this is where I'm But don't you think that getting into like the whole process of getting into college is was so different for us like now in the last like 15, 20 years, it's become so crazy.

All the hoops you have to jump through, all the things you have to do so competitive.

feel like it was kind of like what you said.

Well, we'll just go and apply and see if you get in.

It was just, you know.

I, when I applied, um, they were looking for, know, first kid going to college in a family first girl going to a college in a family first Hispanic Latina girl going in.

mean, they were like strength through diversity was their slogan.

I went right, bring her in and I had the GPA from high school.

They were like, how did she test on her SATs?

I filled out everything, did my essay, done.

And I found out pretty late.

So I didn't find out I was accepted until March, April of my senior year of high school.

And by then, people were already getting their letters of acceptance and I was feeling left out.

I'm like, I didn't apply to anywhere else.

What am going to do?

I'm like, well, hey, it's either I go to Rutgers or cosmetology school.

I'll cut hair.

I'll figure it out.

you put it all in Rutgers.

all in all in scarlet night.

Let's go.

did your did your family.

Well you were the first to go to college so they like had they raised you you're going to college you're going to college.

OK so it wasn't really a thing.

No, I just knew because I would pay attention to money and I was kind of just connecting dots.

I was always that way.

I was always looking at what is happening in the world and Reagan and all of these things.

And then my dad got laid off from his job.

Like certain things started to happen.

And I said, you know what?

I need a college degree.

If I want to dress this way and live well my best of my life, I feel like I need a college degree.

But they were from an era of, my dad's like, I'm a vice president of a bank.

Like you don't need a college degree.

And then he got laid off.

And I was like, you see, cause why did they let you go to hire younger with degrees?

See where we're heading to disaster.

So, you know, he was like, you're right.

And this and that.

So by then I had already gone, but you know, the education wasn't expensive as it is now.

If it was now, I wouldn't have gone.

I would have learned to trade a million percent.

And now with the internet, there's no need for college.

If I had a kid now being like, should I go to college?

No.

If you're a guy or a girl, learn a skill that is AI proof.

Figure out something that is interactive with people in person that nothing, no machine can replicate.

And I'm actually going through that now in my own business.

So I'm looking for ways to take my business to another level, a whole other different thing, still coaching people who want it, but creating something that can inspire people to have face-to-face interactions.

That's smart.

Away from AI.

away from AI, away from even, I mean, it's gonna be an event where if you wanna take pictures and things, fine, right, cool, but it's not gonna be a thing where you're gonna be this the whole time.

Yay.

Yeah.

to be, you're going to feel, it's going to very much appeal to Gen X.

It's a, it's, it's the idea is something to bring to Gen X that's going to remind them of when they were in the nineties again.

That's brilliant.

It's so needed.

And I think it's not just going to attract Gen X.

I think Gen X is going to jump on that.

think the Gen X moms will bring their daughters, think millennials will go in there too.

I think it's gonna just be this environment of, my gosh, I could actually have fun and face to face with other people, make friends, not social media friends, actual friends.

It's old school.

It's old school.

And I think the younger generations are also craving that.

I think that things have gone so far.

Tech technology.

How would you call it?

So far towards technology, technologically, things have gone so far off the grid with technology, with phones, with social media, with dating apps.

It's become sterilized almost the whole experience, the whole human experience has become sterilized.

So I think It needs to go back the other way almost completely for us to find balance.

And I think people are craving that, even the younger generations.

I think they want to know what it's like to organically meet people, organically make friends, organically meet a boyfriend or a girlfriend.

Yes.

That's why there's a bit of backlash now with the apps, the dating apps.

I did a video, a long form video on my YouTube channel about the dating apps and how they're actually created to keep you alone, depressed, anxious and scrolling so they could upcharge you.

Oh, you're in this zip code.

You can get this customized Taylor G, you know, geo targeting thing.

for five dollars a month and they keep selling you these things and you're just like FOMO I don't want to miss out what if my guy is in this radius and I'm only paying for this radius my god So it's constantly just holding the carrot of your person could be there.

You just need to do this one more thing.

And yeah, cause is there ever really any success?

So I have had clients meet people on hinge and have great relationship, married now, I see them on Instagram, they're having their babies, like it's great.

But it's very rare.

It's really rare.

again, this is 2020, 2021.

It's changed tremendously since then.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, and I want to get more into that once we get a little bit further along here, but I want to get to college.

when you went to Rutgers, did you know who you were going to room with in the dorms?

So did you communicate with the person beforehand, like on the phone or write a letter or anything?

So you showed up.

up and I learned who my roommate was like that day.

Yeah.

I was in the dorms and for the first two years I had roommate, the same roommate.

wow, so you guys must have hit it off.

Yeah, and we couldn't be any more different.

She was a pastor's daughter.

She was just super, you know, reading Bible like the whole thing and, you know, in bed at a certain time calling her mother every day like that.

And so I wasn't around a lot.

So she had a single, it was as if she had a single room to herself because I was like, you know, I'd blow in and boyfriend was upstairs in the dorm because our dorms were co-ed.

Mm-hmm.

So it took me 14 seconds to of course have a boyfriend.

Heaven forbid I go to college.

Heaven forbid.

Because, you know, codependency, you gotta always have someone.

So, you know, as much as I was like, well, I'm kind of over the high school boyfriend, so it would be nice to just be single for a bit.

No.

Did you break up with him?

So we broke up with, I broke up with him, but he didn't think we were broken up.

It was that.

So I come back for Thanksgiving and everybody to hang out with your friends from high school, whatever.

And he shows up and it's like a thing.

And now I'm like, Oh, maybe did I make a mistake?

And then, and so I did like the kind of with them kind of not Rutgers life secret life.

And then him when I came home, you know, being 18, being 19, I did.

It's at a one landing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The drone.

Yeah.

That's funny.

That's a little it's relatable.

My high school boyfriend, um he went to our club.

We met at college.

He's not my high school boyfriend, obviously.

But we were friends in college.

But he went to our college a year before me, my high school boyfriend.

And then I went to school.

the next year.

But within the first week, I was I had an I was still dating him.

And I had a new guy that I had met and I was I had two airplanes going for a while.

It was secret.

I look down and like mean one of the campus was a all-women's campus so we'll put that over there but the other yeah Douglas College was all women but every other campus it was hot air balloon kite drone plane helicopter had on every campus I knew who do I know on this campus oh I know and then the whole fraternity thing that's a whole other level Were you like in Piscataway?

That campus?

Okay.

So did you rush a sorority?

Okay, so you just were out there having fun, but you didn't do the whole Greek life thing.

Yeah.

I was like, why am going to join the Russia sorority and being a sorority?

Why would I do that?

I can, I know every one of the brothers at all the good frats.

get in everywhere.

So I'm not paying for friends.

This is ridiculous.

And I didn't like authority at all.

Never did.

So telling me to clean your room and all this wasn't going to fly with me.

Yeah.

So you got all your all your um guys in the air, I guess we'll call it at Rutgers.

You're having a great time.

uh Did you major in anything?

Did you know what you were going to do going in or just kind of float around until you figured out what you want to major in?

So I knew I wanted to go into advertising, marketing, something of that.

And I hated calculus.

So I couldn't do the business school.

So I went to my guidance counselor and I said, how do I become an advertising executive without going to the business school?

Because I can't do calculus.

I can't do it.

I'm not doing it.

I cannot.

Here's me at A, I want to get to B.

What's the shortest way?

He said, become a communications major.

So that's what I did.

So I said, okay, communications.

then the communications discipline at Rutgers was more about journalism and I wanted more of the marketing.

So in the summertime I was staying at Rutgers and I was able to take business courses in the summer.

So they let you do that in the summer.

So I worked at Waitress, they did my thing and then I was able to take classes extra in the summer.

And did you minor then like was one of your minors?

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Brian's major was psychology.

Yeah, I always say it was so he could be married to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he could yeah, he could handle me.

I can psychoanalyzer.

Yeah, that's gone well.

So did you graduate in four years?

Okay.

And what happened after that?

Where'd you go?

I went back to Long Island to live with my mom and stepdad and the plan was start working, get yourself sorted out, save money, get married, leave home a bride.

It was very traditional.

I wanted that.

And I had a college boyfriend who did end up becoming my first husband.

So he was the one that grounded all of the air traffic.

So here's the one.

and aerial things landed hard when that guy came on the scene.

What do you think it was about him where you were like, okay, I'll just, you're the one.

will say when I saw him he was the most beautiful person physically that I have like ever seen in my life.

It was pure physical attraction.

Aura.

Jersey.

Bergen County, New Jersey.

But first generation American born Italian.

So his parents off the boat Italian.

OK, so he's this beautiful Italian man, basically.

Did he have an accent?

OK.

OK, Jersey, Jersey accent, maybe I'm from New Jersey, so I know the Jersey.

You ever hear of Sparta?

That's where I grew up.

yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

I used to go to Red Cross football games.

My dad was from West Virginia, so we'd go whenever the Mountaineers would play Red Cross.

We'd either go to Skadaway or Giant Stadium.

Right?

Because they played at the rack.

That big, at Rutgers, you know, they played there.

And some games, yeah, the big games like that, they would play at giant stadium.

played, then they put in a nice stadium uh at Rutgers.

I don't know if you've been there.

Okay, yeah.

was there, they put that there.

was incredible.

The whole athletic facilities, everything was new when I was there.

in.

Yeah, it was nice.

But you're right.

A lot of kids from Sparta go to Rutgers.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

you're getting kids from all over Jersey going to Rutgers.

tough because New Jersey, it's like you either go like kind of Ivy League, Princeton-ish, other smaller schools, or you go to Montclair, Rutgers, or like Ramapo.

And Rutgers is the best of all of those.

Minus Princeton.

Right, right, right.

And you have a cousin or two that went to Rutgers.

Like that was a very, if we had stayed up there, one of our kids probably would have gone to Rutgers.

That's very normal.

And I didn't realize like how prestigious Rutgers was until it was the summer and I went back to Long Island and I went out socially to the bars and whatever.

And obviously you're out at bars and the first question guys ask you is like, where do you go to school?

And I was like Rutgers and they're like, we got a smart one over here.

And I'm like, what?

I felt like a Elle Woods from Legally Blonde.

I'm like, what?

Like it's hard.

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

But what's funny is he doesn't have an accent because you said that your boyfriend, your college boyfriend had a North Jersey accent.

He doesn't.

He only says a couple words.

Other than that, you wouldn't know.

Yeah, same.

He was very, it was very even.

didn't have, I had a heavy accent from Long Island and it dissipated a lot while at college.

And then it certainly went away when I started working in New York.

That was when things kind of changed.

Well, so, okay, so did he graduate the same time as you?

He took longer he was a year older and he took longer because he worked so when he graduated he already had a job you graduate, go home and basically in your mind, you're gonna wait till he's done and you guys are gonna get married.

So there was so much drama in between that because he had thought that he was going to move to Arizona and then instead of me being like, okay, then let's just break up, which would be me now.

But back then, am I coming to what?

Maybe we can go to Arizona together.

I don't want to break up over that.

Like, are you going to really go?

And then he would put it off.

Like he'd say, I'm going this date and I'd be like a nervous wreck.

And then he would say, no, I'm going to go next year instead.

So it was a lot of that.

Not good.

Was he just messing with you or did he really not have a clue?

think he did not know what he was doing.

Okay, so then when he graduated, what did he do?

So he worked and we saw each other on the weekends and we just were this long distance, make it work how we make it work kind of couple.

He was working in New Jersey, living in Northern New Jersey and I was living on Long Island so it was a solid hour apart from each other.

Wow.

And you're working too, right?

So I was working on Long Island at first and then I started working in New York City and then he started working in New York City So we were able to meet in the city, which was fun was your first job in Long Island?

I worked at an ad agency, a local ad agency, and it was a disaster.

And it was just more of that codependent people, please.

And people would take advantage.

So I was getting everybody breakfast and coffee and taking my car, my gas, which I wasn't being reimbursed for to get the bagels at the good bagel place and all of this.

And I thought, like, I'm just proving that I'm good.

and I'm a team player and all this and...

It's amazing.

Isn't it amazing how people will just continue to take, take, take and never even hesitate to let somebody do that?

Like if I saw someone doing that at this age, a younger person, I'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, girl.

You need boundaries.

You need to be reimbursed for this.

You're not going to go do.

But I feel like for us, the older generation would have been totally taken advantage of you and been like, yeah, do it all.

Not even have a second thought about it.

Right.

So I was only there for like six months and then I said, okay, I'm ready to go into the city.

So you just decided I'm gonna go get a job in the city?

Yeah, and back then it's no internet.

It's looking at the New York Times and I guess faxing or even nailing snail mailing in your resume.

And I was just like, this is going to take forever.

So I said, I'm just going to take the Long Island railroad into New York city.

In the New York Times was ads for temp agencies and executive recruiting firms and things.

And I just made an appointment with one of them.

in I said listen I worked in advertising for six months I know how to do traffic management I just graduated Rutgers six months ago whatever I like sold my thing as best as I could and the woman there was great she was like oh honey we could place you no problem so she said I'm gonna send you on three interviews today she goes in her little system she's like okay you're gonna go to here you're gonna go to here you're gonna go here and one of them was a post-production Facility so it was a lot of technology where they would do special effects on movies TV shows Advertisements so I was like in orbiting in that world Right.

So I got it.

I was at a company doing that so I was the executive assistant for six boomer executives In New York.

In New York.

That's a special breed.

Did it start as a temp, Chum?

It did for three days and then the woman's like, we're hiring you.

I feel like, I don't know, is that a thing still?

Because I feel like when we were first out of college, Temp was huge and was such a, it was such a great way.

date.

Temp is the coffee date for work.

Like you go to a place, three days, they see your hustle, they see how you interact, and then they offer you a job.

Yeah.

But I don't know if it's like that anymore.

A lot of it's offshore.

Yeah.

Offshore.

Because that the way a lot of us got jobs was because if you did a good job, they're like, you got it.

It was a yeah, like you said, yeah.

My first job was with them.

and in three days, this woman who was the head of it, the sales director, she said, you're my girl.

I'm calling that agency.

Can you come in on Monday?

I'm putting an offer together for you.

I'm like, okay, cool.

But you were an executive assistant for six.

Boomers!

Combination.

Men and women mixed.

do you even do that?

It's hard enough doing it for one.

So it was all what happened was this is where CRMs started to become a thing.

the there it is right.

So they're all salespeople but they're giving me legal pads of notes of their interactions with potential clients and they're dropping them on my desk and I had to create a system in the CRM with each of their names a little tab under each adding in all their data.

and then printing it out and giving it to them.

And they were like, oh my God, this is the best thing ever.

All of this is here.

go, yeah, all of your phone calls that you've ever had, all of your notes, everything, their numbers, everything.

This is so great.

And I go, yeah.

And then when you keep going, give me back your documents and I'll add it in.

my gosh, this is the best.

So this was like, you know, my mom's generation fate, the no tech generation fading out as you know, be the little one now.

I'm like, yeah, I'll fax that for you.

No problem.

Like they couldn't even do a fax machine, you know, and right, you know, yeah, like I remember teaching them email.

Yeah.

That's pretty So how long did you do that?

So here's what happens.

I'm working with this company and the boss, my boss, is the point person for the outside PR agency that represents them.

And every time they had a movie or some amazing project that they were working on, it would have to be told in the trades.

So like Hollywood Reporter, like all these magazines and things.

And I studied all of this in school.

So I see Cory was her name and she was like rushing and she's like, can you do me a favor?

Can you proofread this for me?

I have to get this to these people.

I don't know that freaking out.

So I read it.

It's a press release.

And I come at it and I'm like, this could be tighter.

The boiler plate isn't good.

Like all I'm thinking like this needs to be reworked.

But how do I say this to her without stepping on toes?

So I asked her, said, Cory, who wrote this?

And she said, I don't even know.

They gave it to me.

I think it's just a bunch of things put together.

I go, yeah, it kind of seems like it.

I go, did you know that I studied this stuff in school?

Like I know how to write a press release.

Do you want me to take a shot at like making this cleaner?

Yes.

Could you please?

Sure.

I do it, give it to her.

We have to get sign off on it from like the CEO guy who's like the head guy of all the people.

And I go into his office.

I'm like, Hey Dean, can I get your signature on this press release.

And he's like, yeah, who you wrote this press release like who it was a mess.

like, yeah, it's not a mess anymore.

It's okay.

And just, you just have to see if you quote, if you like your quote and he's like, yeah, this is great.

Thank you.

Leave, get him in like, now I'm working with the PR agency because Corey says, take all of it.

Just, I can't, I have sales, I have clients, I have things to do.

I'm a sales person.

I'm not a publicist.

I don't understand that world.

I'm not dealing with that.

So you do it.

And she's like, and I'll figure out a raise for you because of it.

I'm like, oh, cool.

So they like spot bonus me like 1500 bucks.

And was like, like, cause you don't know, you don't know anything.

You're like, you just took on another job and all they were giving you was 1500 bucks, but you think it's great.

So what ended up happening though, as I'm working now as the liaison between our place and the PR agency, and I'm in touch with the account executive and the senior account executive, they have a position open and they poached me.

Wow.

said, hey Lisa, would you ever think of going into PR?

And I said, I guess so, why?

And they said, well, cause you're not really an assistant.

mean, you're, can do that job with your eyes closed on like a three day hangover, but like, you know, you can, you're a great writer and we have a spot open for account executive.

So I was like, ooh, but like, how would I, what would I say to Cory?

Like, I feel like icky about this.

Like, I don't know if this is good.

And then he said what the money was.

And I'm like, I'll have an answer for you by the end of the day.

So you went over and you then were in public relations.

Yeah, and I did PR for 12 years in the city like off and on yeah Were you commuting Long Island?

Long Island to New York, Long Island to New York every day.

So my parents were in Bayshore and I was thinking about this the other day and I'm like, I used to wake up at six o'clock in the morning because I had to be on a train that I think was at seven 20, which put me in Penn Station by eight 20, which then got me to my office by a quarter to nine.

So that's that was that life.

Wow.

So just on the train for an hour each way, let alone all the prep and everything.

then, like, you did yourself up to go out and work in New York.

It was, you were dressed and it was makeup and you were not rolling up like now.

People dressed like pajamas to work.

It's crazy.

this was the Giuliani years, right?

So New York was beautiful.

It was amazing.

We were in Jersey at that time and our older two kids were young babies, three babies to like six.

I used to go in by myself with them and just take them around the city.

You could do that then.

It was amazing.

Serendipity for hot chocolate and all, it's so good, all of it.

I always say it was the heyday, like that mid 90s to about 2010.

I'd say there was like a 15 year run where New York was at its heyday.

Yeah.

Because when we were younger, you go in and there were drug dealers, prostitutes on 42nd Street.

And then that all got cleaned up.

100 % the peep shows, the live shows, all of that was what we had in high school.

And then probably right after Rutgers, Giuliani came in and then Times Square, 42nd Street became Disney.

But it was safe.

It was super safe and there were just all these fun things to do in the city and then the Sex in the City thing came on the scene.

That's where things went sideways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, I mean, other than 9 11, those years were those years were wonderful.

So in there, I'm assuming you got married.

I did, I got married in 1998.

Okay, so did you guys, so at the time you guys were doing long distance at some point, did you move in together?

Like, did he come from Jersey to Long Island?

No.

So the deal was I was going to move to Jersey, um, just cause that's what it was.

He was like, I'm not living on Long Island.

So I'm like, okay, I don't care either way.

I went to Rutgers.

I love Jersey.

It's good.

have my other half of my family, my cousins, my aunt's are all in Jersey.

It's all good.

So I moved to Jersey.

I'd say six months, maybe eight months before wedding.

And I found an apartment.

And I found it specifically five minutes from my ex-husband's parents because his dad was sick with cancer.

And we were planning this wedding and he's sick and then we're trying to like do all of it.

So I didn't want to be far.

I wanted it to be like if they need us, we're right there.

So then get married, still in apartment, save up money.

We decide we're buying a house.

We find house.

12 houses away from my mother-in-law from their house.

So yeah.

So we move in there and in my mind I'm like, oh, no problem.

All good.

Like it'll be great.

And it was, I mean, the food was extraordinary.

And, you know, having her there and, if ever I needed a hem on my work pants, like she was like, I was her third kid, you know, never came over unannounced.

She was very So that's wonderful.

that's pretty good.

Yeah, no, that sounds lovely.

Yeah.

she would know that I was commuting.

So she would ask, you know, Wednesday night, do you want to have dinner with me?

You want to have dinner over here?

And we would have that.

We'd take the dog, walk up the street, have dinner.

was very like Ray Romano.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, that's lovely.

So so you had a period where you were going into the city from Jersey then.

So you did Long Island.

like the big win.

That was another thing that lured me to Jersey.

Cause the commute from Bergen County on the bus now, no more train was way quicker than Long Island.

So I was shaving off time from my commute and tax free clothing and Jersey garden state mall right there.

like hell though.

I know that commute.

It's rough.

Yeah.

And you don't have to.

Oh yeah.

I did a commute from Sparta out to Brooklyn for a little while.

That's, you know, that's I would drive into Hoboken and catch the path into midtown.

Then take the like the F train or something out to Brooklyn and then do that.

You know, it's like a three hour commute on a good day.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I was going to say in Jersey, at least you didn't have to pump your own gas.

Yeah, there you go.

That's the only thing.

is cheaper.

I thought it was weird because Long Island we pumped our own gas.

Then I get to Jersey and I'm like, my god, the queen has arrived.

exactly.

You just have to sit there and wait and just sit there like a little princess.

So what did your ex-husband do?

So he did PR as well to begin with, same thing.

No, different company, a few blocks away.

we would meet, mm-hmm, through in the city we would both meet.

And then that only lasted a little while and then he started working in Jersey and then I worked in Jersey for a while.

So there were times when we worked together in New York and there were times when we were in Jersey.

But then he switched.

He worked his way up, he did well with PR.

And then they let him go.

And that was in like the early 2000s where everybody was starting to be a mortgage broker.

So he went in that direction and I was doing really well.

So he came to me he was like, you know, I think I need to switch it up.

Like this PR thing.

It's not where I want to be.

It's not my thing, whatever.

So he said, I was thinking of going into this direction.

And I said, well, listen, there's probably been the alert learning curve, right?

For figure six months to a year.

And if you really believe you can do it, you're a smart guy.

I'm sure it'll be great at it.

So at least my income can afford this house.

Should there be a learning curve or should there be an issue with money?

And it was amazing.

I mean, he won awards like he was doing great, but it was just such a shady industry.

And I think ethically he had problems with that.

So he did it for like two years, three years did really well.

but then just felt like, I just sold a house to people, they can't afford this, this is a problem.

that was the collapse too though.

it was leading up to it.

So here it is 2007 and he's seeing what's happening.

He's like, this is bad.

This is going to be really bad.

financed three or four mortgages on one place.

It's coming.

I just sold like a stripper, a house that she rents out now and she wants to buy another one in like two months with her brother.

It was all that short sale stuff, know, weird.

Yeah.

So when he was done with that, what did he do?

So when he was done with that, he didn't do anything.

And I did everything.

So that's where the problem started.

OK, so you became the breadwinner and he was home.

And what year?

like right up the street.

Okay, so you don't need to say more about that.

I can see it now.

What year in your marriage was that when that happened?

So by then we were coming up on like eight years.

Okay.

And how long did that situation go on?

Um, well, it went on for a while and we ended up separating in 2000.

when he said, I want to move to San Diego.

And I was like, move to San Diego.

When you sell this house, you're moving to San Diego.

What is that?

Where you think we're going to live next?

Like, do you want to go and scout it out?

And then I'll come with the dog.

Like, how is this going to work?

Super avoidant.

Did not talk about anything.

Horrible communicator.

So imagine I come home one day from work and.

No, it wasn't for more because I got laid off too.

This was the problem.

This is why we had to sell our house.

So I guess I was like out and about.

don't know whatever I come back and there's the real estate people.

They're moving furniture and touching my things and trying to stage my house.

And I didn't even know he was planning on selling it.

It's my house too.

So this is the level of communication or lack thereof that we were dealing with.

So, you know, it was, it was rough, rough, rough.

very like bottom of the bear, like rock bottom, and then me underneath with like a pile of poo right on top.

It's rough.

you had no idea and all of sudden he's listed your house.

rug pulled out from under and there was like things and problems and stuff happening in the marriage leading up to this, of course.

But we thought like I thought we had it all handled and like we went through war together, like we sorted it out.

We're good now.

And then that just was like a current that swept him up.

And I think he was very people-pleasy too.

I think he was answering to a lot of people.

I think he lumped me in that instead of looking at me as the person that can be a team with him.

I think he lumped me into like yet another person that whose needs I have to meet and all this and he should have gone to Arizona after college.

Should have done it.

Should have done those two years of just be a dude, go live with roommates, go do.

He kind of did that in college, but it wasn't, it wasn't the same.

And you know.

making these plans to go to San Diego, were you part of those plans in his mind or was just.

And I thought I was.

That's why I asked the ridiculous question.

And then he said, no, I think I want to go alone.

So that's when I said, oh, so we're separating.

And he was like, yeah, I guess so.

And that's when like I felt like an out of body experience.

Like if I was hovering over this conversation and it was godly, it was very divine where I heard just in my head, Lisa, go to Miami.

And as I heard it, I said, I'm going to Miami.

I'll be happy there.

And within a month I was in Miami.

We sold our house within 60 days.

I bought, I got an apartment in Miami, sight unseen, just based on measuring my furniture with a tape measure and packing up a truck my dad drove and I drove my car with the dog in it and down to Florida.

Yeah, I'm just trying to picture this.

you had said you had gotten laid off.

Was that from the job in the city that you had had this whole time?

Yeah, so by that point, I was at probably like my third job, right?

So every time I would like, you know, your typical Gen X, you hang out for three years, you get promoted, you give yourself a promotion if you don't get one and you earn $10,000 more just by leaving and going to another PR firm or whatever industry you're in.

It's kind of the way you moved up.

um So at that point I was working at, I mean in all my agencies that I worked at pretty much were global PR firms.

So I'm sitting here working at like international stuff and I'm working on major brands like Kellogg's, Princess Cruises, Duracell Battery, like household name stuff.

Then I also did pharmaceutical PR for a while.

So I was in it.

um And then it was after the crash, recession hit, whatever happened.

Oh my God, everybody's getting laid off left and right.

I survived two rounds of layoffs and it wasn't until 2009.

So 2007 that thing happened, I lasted.

And then the Grim Reaper came for me.

The Grim Corporate Reaper came for me.

your job or you've been laid off and your husband has put your house on the market without telling you and has also informed you.

I'm going to San Diego to live the dream I always wanted.

And we were like a year in that house just based on savings and trying to live.

And even starting my own freelancing and trying to do PR on my own.

And we were just hustling.

And then after it was 2010 that he was like, yeah, we're gonna separate.

So then you have the rug totally pulled out from under you, so you just flip and go, I'm changing the trajectory of everything for me now.

Dad, drive me down to Miami.

At least you got the dog.

um Like I was only in Miami with him for a year because he had a broken heart.

That dog was broken hearted.

He was here for my husband and I, adored us both.

And when the separation and the moving and he didn't even like Florida grass, he would walk on the grass and he was just like lifting his paws, the poor thing.

And he was healthy, fine, and he got attacked by fleas and I gave him some medicine and it didn't react well with him and over the months he was getting worse and worse.

I didn't know what to do and he died.

I was heartbroken.

um He was, he's a Finnish spit.

So he looked like a little fox, super cute, fooey.

Fooey.

Poor Fooey.

Did you have family in Miami?

Yeah.

had a cousin in Kendall, but no, and I had one friend from New York who would.

So interesting.

I found a job where I would be heading up a smaller office of a PR agency in New York and that was awesome.

So I was like, okay, cool.

I'm to go there and have a job.

This is going to work out great.

But after six months, shady, typical shady Miami, the job went away.

They weren't paying me.

They were giving me shady excuses.

were like, just do this event.

And once we get the money for the event, I'll just give you 20 grand.

And I'm like, cool.

And shady, shady, shady.

So I was like, yeah, I got to get out of this.

So then what did you do next in Miami?

luckily I had contacts from people from New York so they would give me like freelance projects and things to do and then I was able to save a bunch of money too because my house in Jersey we could live very well on one salary so I would bank a lot of what I was earning.

After the bills were paid, the house you know was paid, I'd have my own stash so I saved a good amount of money.

So yeah.

Like for a woman, especially that's smart because that saved you when your ex-husband decided to just bail on everything.

You at least had that.

That's so smart.

whole divorce with lawyers thing or any, and the divorce came way later.

This was separation.

And then I, I went into, um, relationship marriage limbo for like four and a half years because he left San Diego and came to Miami.

So now one bedroom apartment that I'm paying for and he decides I want to be with my wife.

So I'm like, OK, cool.

Like, we'll work it out here.

We just sold our house.

We can take what we earned in our house, put it in another house.

No.

So now it's vague.

He's living with me.

He's talking to other women on the phone.

like texting.

I meant to text her.

I came to me.

I was like, yeah, this is this is not I look, I'm not the mayor of Miami.

I can't tell you where to live, but you're not living here.

You're not going to be eating my food, living here.

talking to other, like, what is this?

How long did he live with you in that situation?

It wasn't long.

It was like five months.

But I mean, it makes sense, especially with, you know, like the people pleasing and wanting things to work out and that everything that so many of us, yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

am, 40.

I mean, I know him like half my life.

Yeah.

You like grew up together in a way.

Yeah.

a million years we would ever be apart.

And then, and you had gone through so much together.

And then when he, what he did was so abrupt.

So you were still processing that.

And then he reentered again.

Right, only to like be shady.

So that, when you made that decision after the five months where he was with you, was that the final decision for you or did it still take a few times?

Oh, it took a lot.

I was still married technically for another four years.

And we would do things like a married couple and he'd sleep over.

It was like I was having a situationship with my husband.

It's a thousand percent what it was.

Can't divorce, can't stay together, can't plan a future, don't know what we're doing.

Disaster.

100 % situationship with my husband.

Yeah.

And was this all in Miami?

South Beach, 10th and Alden.

So all of that time.

least you're in a nice spot.

That's true.

Yeah.

going to like be unfair.

Let's, you know, we want the podcast audience to get the real story.

I entered a very rebellious stage because after you sell my house and you put this bomb on me, I was like, all right, I'm going to go to Miami.

I'm going to do the party lifestyle.

I'm going to be on boats.

I'm going to beat millionaires and I'm going to line up my next thing.

Nice.

No, I mean.

lifestyle was not conducive to being wife.

But it was this push pull because I was like, well, if you behave like a husband, then I would not go out on Sundays on a yacht.

100%.

It was 100 % a reaction.

And yes, it was Spifle and yes, it was games and all of this, but look, you mess, you mess with me.

This is what happened.

exactly.

So you guys, took a while for it to finally be done.

yeah, and I still, all that time I had hope.

was like, I feel like we just have to figure it out.

Cause we didn't not love each other.

That was the part that was rough because I was like, we love each other.

This is stupid.

But was he your best friend?

best friend.

In fact, was opposite.

was we loved each other and more the friendship.

How?

It was that that was the very thing that made it so difficult to end it because then the friendship.

yeah, I would think the friendship is what would have made it so he didn't do what he did.

You know, because usually you wouldn't treat your best friend that way.

So it's just so.

that we did to each other that was not friend.

was betrayal.

It was horrible.

You know, it was very disrespectful.

But, you know, it was like, have to rally here.

Are we going to forgive each other and move on or...

So what was the final ending for you?

So the final ending was just this state of limbo and I was dating a guy and he was a good guy and you could tell he wanted to get more serious with me, but the circumstances wasn't allowing that obviously.

I'm still technically married to somebody and then he was seeing somebody too and I was like, what?

This is ridiculous.

So I brought it up and he was the one to say, I just, don't see a future together.

I think we just totally grew apart and it was heartbreaking.

And again, cause he's such a terrible communicator.

He brings me to this restaurant to tell me this at the restaurant.

We order food, everything.

like, I threw my napkin down and left.

It's horrible.

And then he followed me and he was like, Lisa, wait up.

Are you okay?

I don't like get away from me.

Do not talk to me.

This is you broke it.

And I just yelled.

You broke it and I just left and then his friend calls me like an hour later.

I'm like, what's this about?

And I'm crying and all upset.

He's like, Lisa, it's Randy.

Alex asked me to check on you.

He says he thinks you, he, you broke your heart.

I go, he did break my heart.

Again.

I mean, I think that's obvious, right?

So that was it, though.

You were done after that.

So yeah, so we get divorced in 90 days, no lawyers.

We already sold our house, all our assets were handled, everything was handled.

So it was like, well, we both hate lawyers, we're not gonna have a lawyer.

So it's just like handle it.

And we did.

There was no alimony, there was none of the legal nothing.

It was like, you we were going out dating and then we just had to split the CD collection.

That's what it was.

Wow.

And so then did you guys speak to each other again?

So I needed time, like just not, but then we did circle back in the friendship rekindled and it was just friendship.

Now it was more like siblings.

You know, like now I'm like, wow, like he's family.

That's how I felt.

So are you still in contact with him?

Mm-hmm not like in a we see each other and go to dinner and all that no he lives in Miami still with his girlfriend and his mom and I'm in Sarasota with my husband and dog in life from soon.

moving to Texas, so it's you know we're Geographically separated, but he'll send me like funny stuff on Instagram And you know well he'll ask about my parents saying with me with his mother.

You know like we're all up in the family So that's positive.

We have a lot of history.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's really positive and healthy, actually.

Where you guys are at now.

you know, we don't really talk about anything deep, right?

It's very out of the surface, but still like we're cool with each other.

And we want like the best things for each other.

And now he does real estate.

And isn't this another kick in the butt?

When he moved to Miami, I knew that there was a booming real estate market there, especially foreign.

And a friend of mine that I met in Miami before...

Alex was my ex-husband arrived was Italian and he specialized in Italian investors in Miami real estate.

So I said, you have a job waiting here.

You just have to go through the process, get your real estate license and you'll slide right in and you'll be able to speak Italian.

You'll do business with Italy.

It'll be great.

You'll love it.

No, I don't want to do that.

I don't want to do that.

What does he do now?

Real estate.

You set him up.

I was like, you know, could done this like when you got to Miami and like maybe we wouldn't have gotten divorced, maybe like whatever, but it had to go this way.

It's all good.

All good.

Had to go that way.

So.

now you're in your early forties divorce.

I'm like 44 now, I'm divorced, I'm living in South Beach and I...

uh I'm still what?

PR?

Yeah, so a friend of mine from New York had an agency in Miami, so she was like, hey, do want to come work with me?

And I'm like, sure.

So I was doing that, Okay, and just living the South Beach lifestyle.

living the lifestyle, South Beach lifestyle.

So I was, you know, going out and it was just amazing.

It was great.

I started a blog down there called Lisa Takes Miami, a New York take on life in Miami.

And blogs were a thing.

And I would go to restaurant openings and all of the things.

And people were like, you're like the Carrie Bradshaw of South Beach.

I'm like inviting me to all these things.

I walked.

in not actual swim week, like it was swim week, but it was an event outside of like the main models in the runways.

But I walked in something like at a salon spa thing, whatever they had an event.

I mean, it was it was awesome.

So how long were you living that life?

So I lived that life, I would say, solid from 2010 till about 2016.

Was that the first time you were really single?

Wasn't though it was like I was married.

I was sort of single so I was only truly single the year of 2015 divorced no boyfriend nothing and then I met first boyfriend after divorce in 2016 so I had taken an entire year Because while I was divorcing I got into a relationship like a rebound thing because again codependent disaster can't be alone heaven forbid And the guy ended up being psychopath.

And that's what scared me.

Cause that was like, whoa, like you don't have good judgment and you're a New York girl.

You can spot BS a mile away and you weren't able to hear.

So that's when I just was like, you know what?

I'm going to dive into what this is about.

I'm going to go to therapy.

I'm going to heal a bunch of stuff.

I feel like maybe I was traumatized a little of how this whole Florida life even began.

And so that unearthed all of the stuff that made my business my business.

That's what inspired me to become life coach is that is my own inner work.

What was the main revelation that um triggered you to want to help people?

So I did therapy and I got the word codependent.

It was the first time I ever heard of this word.

And I took it like a dog on a bone and I went and researched everything, pile of books, all this stuff.

And I got it.

I got the concept of it.

And I totally saw where it came from, why the whole childhood thing, every, all of it.

It made.

crystal clear sense to me why I made decisions I did in my marriage, why I showed up a certain way in my career, all of the things made like a light was shown upon me in such a way that it was, well, there it is.

And so I was very public to keep me accountable.

I started to share what I was learning in therapy on social media and I didn't want to be the party girl anymore.

to kind of really hone in on my inner work and my care for me.

And I started to go to do spin class on a Saturday morning, which meant that I couldn't be out until four in the morning on a Friday night.

So I started to alter my life in a way that was much more wifely than what I was behaving as.

So ex-husband takes notice.

He's like, you know, you're totally transforming your life.

I was like, I know.

And were you doing this, though, while you were still in the midst of all that stuff with him or this was after that scary?

I was after the scary relationship.

relationship is what like thrusted me into this desire to understand what it is in me that attracted this.

I'm 44 years old.

It's Christmas.

My apartment is black.

I do not have a tree.

I'm with this little dog.

I got to make some changes here.

This is not what I signed up for.

This is not the life that is for me.

That was the rock bottom moment.

That was definitely rough.

Like I went Christmas Eve to a steak place and like had steak with my dog.

Like I was like, wow, I'm like, wow, I'm that chick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kind of a foreign city.

So then you took yourself to therapy pretty much right after that.

Yeah, and I didn't go to therapy in Miami.

What I did was I had a contact of mine who got divorced, who was also in PR and she raved about her therapist when I had seen her in New York.

And she said, you know, I called her and I said, can you give me the name of your therapist?

Only because New York and the upbringing of New York, it's a very New York metro area.

It's a very unique upbringing.

And I was in Miami.

some like Miami therapists, like no shade thrown.

I'm sure they're great, but it's just different growing up there.

They can't relate to what my upbringing was.

So I was able to find someone who would remote zoom, you know, um, do therapy online.

And I did 12 sessions with her and then I kind of had her on standby after cause it was, I was really committed.

I was very committed into change and I was doing other things too.

I did some stuff with Dr.

Joe Dispenza, I wanted to learn about just trauma at the cellular level.

I wasn't eating right, I wasn't sleeping right.

I had an acupuncturist, a nutritionist.

I I went at it.

I dumped all this money and I'm like, I am gonna be solid in six months.

You did a whole like wellness health, mental health journey.

Yeah.

past midnight.

I have a curfew.

It's 10 PM during the weeknights.

It's midnight on the weekends.

And I held to it.

that was really to fix yourself, right?

That wasn't like, I've got this vision, I want to go out and help people.

You're just fixing your own self.

Yeah.

And I was fixing myself and healing and really understanding what was going on and sharing those breakthroughs online.

And then people on Facebook would see my content and then they would DM me and say, Hey, I want to talk to you.

Like I'm kind of going through something and you know, so I would say, sure.

Like I'll share the books I'm reading.

I'll share what I'm doing.

And this guy did that with me.

And he said to me, least This is a business.

And I'm like, what do mean?

He's like, I know you're like PR girl, blogger girl.

I know you have that all that, but have you ever thought of like being a therapist or like, Oh God, no, not a therapist.

What about like a life coach?

And I like life coach, like, like, like Tony Robbins.

That's what I was like at that time.

You know, it's my frame of reference.

And he said, yeah, like, you know, you're, you gave me more in the last hour and a half talking with you.

than like five years of therapy.

Like I did all this therapy, but now you made me want to like put everything I learned into life, like into play.

So that's coaching.

And I'm like, well, I'll look into it.

So I network with a girl that I did PR with who became a life coach and did very well with it.

So I asked her, I went on her, I was looking at her page, trolling her little events and all this.

And I said, Jenny, how did you start?

Like, how did you go from PR all the way into this business?

You're doing so great.

You have your kids, like you're home with them.

It's awesome.

So she told me her journey and she said, I can introduce you to the place that I got my accreditation from.

If you like it, you could enroll and you can get accredited as a coach and they'll teach you how to coach.

It's a process you're to learn.

You're going to get coached.

You're going to coach other people and you're going to know like the method of it and how to communicate as a coach.

So I'm like, wow, I didn't know it was like that involved.

Like this is cool.

And that's what I ended up doing.

I was working with my friend, Cathy, in her agency while I was doing this accreditation in Miami for coach.

How long was it, the accreditation?

OK.

the Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching and they did it out of FIU.

And so I would go there and do the modules and then they had on.

you know, program.

Yeah, it was about 10 months in total.

It was wonderful.

was there, did you end up specializing in an area or is it mainly you can coach someone through anything going on personally or do you kind of choose as you go along the 10 months where you want to focus?

So they teach you general life coaching and then from there you're able to pick your niche.

So because my thing was so raw about divorce and reinventing yourself and all of the stuff I did, it was just like a natural pull.

It was just a subject I was interested in curing codependency, developing self love.

Um, inner child reconnection, recovery, reinvention.

Like I started to really go deep into all of that for myself.

And then eventually my clients started coming to me like you did it.

I saw your whole journey.

You were a hot mess two years ago and now look at you like, this is amazing.

I want to work with you.

So that's how that kind of started.

did your transfer for your own transformation was about two years.

I would say fully it was a solid year, but it never ends.

It just involves more and more.

So there were milestones that I've met, right?

Like I had the whole boundaries thing and self love thing pretty solid within about eight months.

And yeah, it was, was, I was pretty on point knowing that If I was with a guy and he liked me and I didn't really like him that I could be like, all right, well, this was nice, but I'm not really feeling the vibe before I would be like, well, maybe I should give him another chance.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean, it feels like because you had said like, you know, if things had gone differently or if your ex-husband had gone into real estate when you were in Miami, maybe things could have worked out.

But it really sounds like it went the way it was supposed to go.

Because it sounds like you when you went through this transformation, you became your authentic self.

And then you were really living your authentic life.

Exactly, precisely.

And I even got a new dog.

and what kind of dog.

And this is other dog, cause he passed away in 2022, but I had him for 11 years and he was like a miniature version of the dog that I had prior.

And he was just soul mate dog.

I mean, this was the dog that came in.

He was with me through the separation, divorce, my journey of rebuilding myself up, all of it.

And he was precious.

Yes.

He went on steak dinner with me and his name, his name was Taz.

Taz.

Rest in peace, Taz.

Fly high, angel dog.

Those sold, we're dog people.

We have three dogs right now, but we've had seven.

Now I have the marital dog, Kevin.

Oh, he's a precious, precious.

He's a, he's a half, no more than half.

He's 63 % Siberian Husky and the rest.

So what is it?

math 33 % Pomeranian.

my gosh.

wow.

Cool.

He's a poof.

So he's a poof.

He looks like a husky that shrunk in the wash.

He's like 45 pounds.

He's like 45 pounds.

He's sweet.

So far he's only two and a half.

So he hasn't started.

He does a little bit like he'll be like complaining.

That kind of thing.

He hasn't, if I leave, he'd be, he'll give some howling.

Yeah.

now he's, he's a little more mature.

So, but people tell me they're like, wait till he's four, something happens between three and a half, four.

And I'm like, Oh my gosh, no, I can't with that.

I love that though, Kevin.

after about a year, when did you start accepting clients?

After you went through this whole journey?

do the IPEC thing and um I'm ready to roll.

I'm like a certified coach.

And people from my content online, thank God I was PR and marketing girl, because I could market myself, um they started to find me.

And then once they coached with me and got a good result, they started to tell friends and it was very lot of word of mouth.

So.

always the love coach or did you start off with something different?

So I started off with love quest coaching.

Like that was the thing because I wanted to offer people divorce recovery, narcissistic abuse recovery, um self love, dating with purpose, just really helping people with the things that they were mainly in pain about that I had gone through too.

So it really made sense and I was living it.

it was like this girl is the girl to go to.

She just got her butt handed to her by divorce.

So she's looking good now.

She's fine now.

Like I want to that.

I want to be healed.

want to, know, so yeah.

So was that and it was pretty quick.

So, um, in the beginning I was working with my friend and coaching on the side.

And then eventually mindset wise, I had to shift.

had to be like, wait a second, I'm a coach and this job is funding my dream.

And no sooner I started to speak in that language, I am a coach.

Like I manifested this.

This is like speak it into existence.

Then I was able to not work with the friend anymore, kind of teeter out my hours, whatever, and then go into coaching full time.

which was scary as all get out, but I did it.

I bet.

So what's the time frame from when you first started taking clients to where this became your sole job?

about a year and a half.

It only took a year and a half.

That's amazing.

Talk about destiny.

I mean, come on.

Yeah.

I mean, and you worked hard, you heard all that.

Yeah.

uh media game, I was doing lives.

was going on podcasts.

was whatever.

was just market, market, market.

Get yourself out there.

Get yourself known as Lisa, the love coach, have a catchy thing that people could just rattle it off their mouth.

you're Lisa the love coach.

And then I'd be in Miami.

Hey, Lisa, the love coach.

And I would do videos called Lisa's low down on love.

So every day I'm posting a video like every morning, you know, everybody it's Lisa, the love coach.

Today's my low down on love.

And today we're talking about Facebook.

Is it a hot mess?

You know, I'm like going into all of these things.

So, you know that plus the blog, people really knew me.

So it was, it was cool.

What year are we talking about?

2018, 2019.

we're about 2016 because that was when I met the guy, the first real serious relationship after divorce.

So that's like 2016.

2017 is when I'm like getting my accreditation.

The new boyfriend is with me through this now, 2019 I'm only doing coaching.

So he was with me for all of And how was that relationship different since it was during your transformation?

So it was such a great, perfect example of the kind of relationship to have as your first relationship after divorce.

Where you're, I'm healed, I could be in something, I could receive love, I'm older now, I'm not 20, I'm not 30, I'm 44.

And there was a learning curve for that relationship too.

I was still very like, you know, I want to do what I want to do and like, don't tell me this and that I had to really learn, you know, you have to consider somebody else.

It's not just the Lisa show.

It's like, got to consider somebody else.

So it was a really good relationship.

It reminded me, was the friendship aspect was very reminiscent of ex-husband.

And then that just showed me, you know, that is my relationship pattern.

I become really dear friends with the guys that I'm with.

Okay.

so it's not just this girl-guy thing.

It's like, no, she's my girl.

Like, we hold it down.

Like, I share things with her, and like, we have a good time together.

And I'm kind of a guy's girl also.

So, example, we would go to the beach, and I'd have like a little squeegee Nerf ball, and we'd be like throwing it, you know, because I played ball.

So I was always into sports and stuff.

you know, listening to the Yankee game on the radio while we're...

and at the beach and it was that.

Going to restaurants, going here, going there, dressing up, going to places, going to happy hour.

So it was a very fun relationship.

Right.

It probably felt in some ways as heavy as what you were doing this whole change in your life.

The relationship probably feels lighter than your I mean what you came from.

Yeah, cause it was very stable.

He was definitely into me.

He wasn't a player.

He, there was never any confusion.

We were into it.

We liked each other.

We would catch up with each other.

He lived five blocks away.

It was, we'd meet on the street with a roadie and we'd go walking to happy hour and bar hop and have a blast.

It was great.

Perfect.

But four and a half years.

We're together and somewhere around year two and a half ish.

We go away for a weekend and we come back.

We had the best time.

I think we went to Naples.

We were there.

It was great.

And I'm walking the dog and we got back and I said, so like, where do we go from here?

Like, where are we going?

He goes, you mean next?

Like we just did a vacation on like, you know, we just went to the weekend.

Like what is the, are you talking about?

I mean that I mean us like what what do we do?

Like we've been together now for like, you know, three years.

So like, what do we do?

And he looked at me like a deer in headlights.

And because of all the work that I've done and all the things wiser, he looked uncomfortable.

And so instead of freaking out, instead of getting into that codependent, like I shouldn't have said anything.

I said to him, you know, a woman like me asking you that question is a good thing.

no, I know.

I know.

Like I know what I got.

Good.

Because I will never betray you.

I will never ever lose respect, but there will come a day where I do not want to be the girlfriend up the street anymore.

And when that day comes, you will be the first to know.

Other than that, we're cool.

And I left it like that.

But I knew at that moment, he's on the ticking talk of it's gonna not, you know, cause I knew I was evolving.

I knew I was like, I'm not meant to be the girlfriend up the street.

I don't want to live in this apartment my whole life.

I have other things I want to do.

And the more I healed and the more I grew, the more In my faith, I even became in a very spiritual way.

This journey was incredibly spiritual, very intuitive, and it wasn't like religion.

was just spirit.

Like I knew I was loved unconditionally and guided.

And if I listened to that guidance, I would prosper.

And it was happening.

And I got to a point, COVID happened, and we had talked loosely about moving in together.

And it was as if two matrices opened up in COVID the world split either you were on this path or this path and we were on different paths.

So I saw Miami and what it was during COVID and I was like, I just, I can't be here anymore.

It was something deep, like the same voice that way back said, go to Miami, Lisa, you'll be happy there.

It was the same thing again.

It was go to Sarasota, go to the West coast.

Your mom, uh which stepdad, just moved down, be closer to them.

And I felt it like in every inch of my body, my bones, I was like, I know I have to leave Miami.

I know I have to go.

My time here is over.

I've been here for 10 years.

This relationship isn't, isn't going anywhere.

I got to make some moves.

And again, within a month from the time it popped in my head to go to Sarasota, was stuff packed, moving into my new apartment in Sarasota.

And then break up with Miami boyfriend.

And then I'm like, let me just be like single in a new city and just kind of make friends and just see where I'm at.

And within eight months from when I moved around that, I met my now husband.

So those eight months, was that the longest you'd been single?

So I guess so?

Yeah, I would say so.

And even then a guy pops up, let me take you out, wants to date me, la la la.

And I'm like, I don't understand when women say to me, where do you meet men?

How do you meet men?

I'm like, girl, I'm like fly paper.

Like everybody's like, how do you meet these men?

I'm like, what app are you on?

I'm like, no apps.

I go, I go to Home Goods, I get gas, and boom, some dude is asking me out.

They're like, wow, so.

Thank you.

It makes sense, though, that that relationship because when you guys first got together, you were just beginning your transformation, right?

So as you said, you evolved, you grew, you were you were elevating.

And so he was he was there for a season.

then it then it was done.

Yeah, yeah.

him popping up on my social media supportive of him, like always saying shout out to your brother.

If I see the pictures together.

So it was a good relationship.

We never did anything shady to each other.

There was no, no shade thrown ever.

No, nothing.

It was just growth.

And it got to a point where it was like, you know, I'm being called to be a wife and I want that with you.

We've been together for four and a half years, but it doesn't sound like you're about that.

It sounds like you have like massive PTSD about being husband still.

I like, it's all good.

There was, just, it went as far as it could go.

It was sad, but I had to go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was married, yeah, he was married for I believe like 10 years or something, or he was with someone for 10 years and like six of it was marriage.

So, yeah.

No, mean, excuse me, it makes sense.

know, I and it your growth, though, for you, just even at that two and a half year mark, your reaction to when you knew he's not going to I mean, that just showed how far you'd come.

Your reaction in the past.

like we need to break up and this is a waste of time and did it and try to like manipulate him to want what I want.

I was like, all good.

You're where you are.

And now I'm a coach.

So for me to shift into coach mode, it's a blessing because now I'm like, wait, don't come at him.

Like Lisa, the codependent from five years ago, come in him as coach and coaches.

You are where you are.

And I respect your journey.

and I'm where I am and I respect mine.

And if this goes forward, cool.

If it doesn't, that's cool too.

But honesty is what matters most.

You've completely excuse me.

in the way you're coaching, you're completely removing the anxious attachment style.

That's what you're doing.

And that's huge.

That's huge because that drives so many women.

So many, it's always the anxious attached who get with people like my ex-husband, not communicative, kind of avoidant.

And you're trying to solve these people like a Rubik's Cube.

And I'm like, no, no treating, no solving people like a Rubik's Cube.

I know it's challenging and you want to get in their head, but it's terrible for you.

And you're doing backflips and somersaults and it doesn't matter what you do.

It's not gonna, it's not gonna change.

I'm curious.

What was your mindset difference when you went to Miami versus when you left Miami?

my God, what a good question.

So my mindset when I left Jersey to Miami, it was, my God, I'm leaving everything that is familiar.

Everything that I.

And I'm kind of psyched because I'm doing this for me.

I want to be where it's warm.

I want to be at the beach.

I want to live in an urban beach town.

Like I want Brooklyn with palm trees.

And that's why South Beach.

And I would go and I loved it.

But the second time it was more opposite.

I did the party thing.

I want quiet.

I want to walk my dog and just see a sky with stars and maybe be a little boring.

get into my era of boring.

Like I don't need to be constantly every weekend out out out.

Like I just want to chill and really focus on my business.

And you know, if I meet my person, I'm interested in meeting my husband.

So it's going to be a minute and I'm not interested in meeting another bachelor.

I'm not interested in meeting another boyfriend.

I am meeting my husband.

So I have to prepare and I think that was the motivation.

Like when I was leaving Miami the second time, it was like uh a calling forward of like jumping a timeline where I was just becoming someone different.

And for sure, for sure.

your soft era in a way.

Yeah, really doing a lot of work at that point around feminine energy, more healing, more, you know, because the ex boyfriend and that ending of that triggered stuff, brought stuff up.

The uncertainty of like, my God, like I'm legit in another town again.

And luckily, because of social media, I had this like following because of all the video content I was doing and whatever.

And the West Coast, Florida people, the Tampa people.

They were psyched.

They were like, girl, you're moving to the West Coast.

You're coming to Tampa Bay.

Like we're going to go out.

And I was like, okay, now I'm going to party in Tampa Bay.

Right.

Like, but in that I reconnected with girlfriends that I knew from the West Coast of Florida.

And one of them had a birthday celebration, invited me and that OK, so was it instant for you?

So I knew that there was something about him from the day I met him.

There was a rapport, this instant chemistry of being from the Northeast.

He's from Boston area, uh New York.

So when we met and he told me where he was from, was immediately, I was like, well, sports will be interesting.

Yes, yes.

know the Red Sox talk, right?

Yeah.

like what giants I'm like giants, but jets I go Patriots.

He's like, I'm like, I'm like, course red socks.

He's like, yeah, Yankees.

I'm like, but playful, you know, but playful, you know, and we, you know, hit it off immediately.

We talked for hours.

We were at this party.

All this stuff is going on around us and we're just at the bar chatting the whole time and we just got along great.

say to him, For me, it was like when you're a little kid and you're new to a town and you're riding your bike by yourself and you see another little kid down the street and the kid says to you, you're new.

Yeah, I just moved over there.

Oh, that's a cool bike.

You wanna go riding?

Okay.

And then you're best friends.

That's what it was like.

That's exactly what it was like.

It was like two little kids, two little peanuts meeting each other and getting along.

And yeah, it was quick.

mean, it was I went at the relationship very different than any other relationship in the past.

I was very upfront about my intention for why I was dating.

was 50 when we met.

So I knew I I'm dating to become a wife.

I'm dating to attract my husband.

And if you're not into that, no shade thrown.

All good.

But I have to be upfront because that's what I'm here for.

Me.

And husbands was like, yeah, I was just telling my brother like a month ago that I have to be open to marriage and a pet because most likely the woman that is my woman will probably want both.

had he been married before?

Okay, so and how long had he been divorced before you guys?

was with somebody for a while, 10 years, not married.

He was divorced prior to that.

So he had a long term relationship, west coast, east coast, you know, that sort of thing.

And he'd like live there for a few, because he could work from home, so he would spend time back and forth.

And then he ended that, moved back to Florida, and then dated some crazy girl for like two years off and on off and on, cray cray and learned himself to about boundaries and I don't do crazy and all of this dealt with a lot of residual stuff from his childhood too.

It was like we were both on this trajectory parallel at the right moment to meet and that's what ended up happening.

So when I, you know, when I met him, I was very upfront.

I was like, you know, this is, I'm dating to attract my husband and he was like, okay.

And then I said, yeah, so as long as we're clear on that and you're cool with it, like that's the point.

Oh, and because of that, I'm not having sex with anyone until I'm in love with them and they are in love with me and we are a thing.

And he was like, OK, and super protective of that.

And, you know, it made it really hot like the courtship was super hot because of that, because we were like 16 again.

It was like, my God, like I want it like.

because there's a lot you could do physically, you know, without that.

So that's what went down and it was like hot and heavy and good.

And yet that friendship was starting to form too.

And we just like had such a meeting of the mind on so many things, our values, what was happening in the world, you know, where we were on.

what we felt in our gut about everything that was going on and just all of it.

Because is this during COVID?

This was 2021 that we met.

yeah, yeah, there was still the aftermath of that.

No COVID was, nothing was doing anything.

COVID was, you know, three weeks.

Yeah.

I am.

It was a blip.

I'm curious.

You know, you had mentioned people ask you, how do you meet people?

And you're like, how do I not meet people type of thing?

Right.

Is that, so you've got to be putting a vibe out there of some sort, right?

What is that vibe?

And maybe you advise your clients on this, but is your vibe to just be good with yourself and not go chasing, you know, that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense.

Very important discussion to get into because yes, the thing that women want to know is what am I doing wrong?

When I'm out in the world, what am I doing wrong?

And I'm and in five seconds I'm like, dude, I have you on a zoom call.

Like you're with me and you have like the RBF going, you know, the resting bitch face.

Like you're very like, you know, just It's more about your body, like just be in your body.

And I really think like being in Miami, living those 10 years in Miami definitely softened me and even in my physicality.

So there's something called somatic healing and it's so there's even somatic dance and somatic like the store at the mall, Soma.

It means body, right?

The lingerie place at the mall.

So somatic, right?

So I did a lot of work with that.

I was doing ecstatic dance.

I was really getting into doing spin classes because I was kind of a jock, right?

Cheerleader, a bit jock.

But when you get into that sensuality of like, I love the beach and I love the way the water feels on me.

And I just, you're warm in that feminine mermaid land, you know, kind of that.

You take it with you.

It becomes an essence of who you are.

And then you are moving differently.

You're slower and you're walking.

I'm quick New York walk.

I go places.

I walk with purpose, but even then there's this eye contact.

There's this light.

This just openness, right?

Where you're not on the phone like dinner.

If I'm online at TJ Maxx, like I'm not this, like I'm not that I'm just like kind of looking around.

I'm picking the candle.

I'm smelling it.

this is good.

I say to the lady next to me, No, this isn't this great.

Like I'm bringing people in all the time.

That has to be so different though for you, right?

Because growing up in Long Island, spending time in the Bronx, going to Jersey, it's the antithesis of what you just described in many ways, right?

I'm a Northeast guy.

um She'll call me avoidant, closed off, you know, those things.

I understand what you're saying.

So you've made that transformation.

Now you're kind of more in a flow as opposed to this guarded person.

And now the world opens up.

and you've let people in and that vibe is out there.

right like when you're in a guarded a guarded energy and no shade thrown people have gone through stuff and yes it does make you guarded but just imagine an energetic fence around you.

You look like you no one can see the fence but they feel it so it doesn't matter how pretty and feminine your little sundress is You got the fence up.

It's like the dog with the electric fence.

It's not going to cross the street because it'll only go to a point barking, but it's not going to move.

It's that.

And that's a barrier to entry.

So when you are out in the world and you're looking cute and you're going to brunch and you're like, I want to meet a guy, but you still have that walled up woundedness, little invisible fence around you.

They're going to feel it.

What I keep everything you're describing, feels like you need to be in your feminine.

You need to be soft.

You need to be open because then that will attract what you're looking for.

The male energy, know, is that, does that make sense?

Does that kind of correlate?

and it's even more than that.

It's a balance because everybody throws such shade on masculine energy.

Like masculine energy is what gets you up in the morning and gets you like doing stuff in your life, right?

You need it.

It's necessary.

Um, it's what helps you to focus.

It's that, you know, testosterone that's going to be like, all right, I got these five things to do today.

We're going to get it done.

Right.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, when you're too much in that, that's when you start mothering men, fixer, trying to rescue them.

They start asking you for money.

You have it all together.

You start meeting men that don't.

But when you're balanced, where you're, I can get my stuff done, but I can turn that off.

And when I have a date, I'm em feminine now.

Yes.

so one of the ways that little baby steps that I do exercises with women on how to really crack that open it's let's look at the things that matter to you from both the masculine perspective and the feminine and let's talk about how you're communicating.

So if you're talking about your job, there is a way to talk about it from a feminine energy and the feminine energy is I serve in this way and I love it.

So if you're a real estate agent and you're in your masculine energy, you're going to be on a date and say, yeah, so I'm with, um, Coldwell banker and I closed 3 million last month and I'm just fired up.

I'm probably going to win an award by the end of the year.

I'm going for like this much in sales.

It's very numbers.

It's very, but when you're in your feminine, you'll say something like, my God.

The other day I helped a married couple and the woman was pregnant and I got them their first.

And it was just so warm.

felt like they're loving my heart.

They were hugging me.

The girl was crying cause she's got like pregnancy hormones going and I just, it's like, I wanted to take this family and like put them in a nest and I got to do it.

Do you see the difference in that?

How do you think that translates though?

Because I almost relate more to the first scenario.

Do know what I'm saying?

Like, how does that relate?

Or I guess, how does that impact the dynamics of the male-female uh communications, in a sense?

Well, I mean, if you're a dude and you're alpha, you could respect her hustle, right?

Like admire the hustle.

But then you might think, like, what does she need me for though?

right?

She's like, she's.

Very, yeah, behind the scenes.

Wake up to that shit more so than you're realizing it in the moment.

Yeah.

And wouldn't the man be naturally attracted to the feminine way she expressed, talked about her job?

Yeah.

in her body.

She's saying like, my God, I felt their love in my heart.

These people, this family, like this is why I do what I do.

I love it.

I love seeing people go from apartment to their first house or changing their whole life and going from their first house into their second house.

Like I just love the growth of people and being a part of that.

Like it just fills my heart.

It's very different.

interesting to your point.

you're pressing your chest, you're, feel it in my heart.

And whenever you can draw a man into your body, Oh my God, that's, that's the magic.

fascinating actually, it kind of just that kind of stuck to your point, what do you need me for if you've got the numbers and all this stuff rigidly figured out?

That's my job as a masculine person, but now I can appreciate that you care and you have this softer loving side which could complement my rigid side as a man.

Exactly.

And so then he starts to think, wow, like she's so soulful.

Like she pours her heart into these, into her business.

And she's driving a Benz.

Like that's an $80,000 car.

And then like, dude, she lives in that building and it's a condo.

Like that girl's gotta be making a, like he'll do that.

Let him do that.

Right.

When he, when he goes to see you and things are progressing and he finally comes to your home, He'll see how you live.

You don't have to sit in a date while I drive a Mercedes and I have it at valet.

So are you gonna walk me to valet?

Are you gonna pay for my valet?

Stop with any of that, stop.

So it's almost like, cause you know, there's this whole, the whole thing right now with, at least with Gen Z women that, and I see it a lot on social media where, you know, um, they're telling younger women, you don't need a man.

You don't need to, uh, you can do everything yourself.

Stay single.

I see that a lot.

Stay single.

You'll be happier.

You don't need a man.

All this.

Right.

And, I do think inherently.

the majority of young women do want to find a partner and do want to have that in their life.

And it's almost like it's becoming a stigma to want that in some ways.

You're supposed to just be happy being single.

And if it happens, it happens.

If not, it's OK to be single the rest of your life.

And it's not that it's not OK to be single for the rest of your life, but it's OK to want to get married or to want to have a relationship in your life.

So with all that going on, I feel that some young women are feeling they have to hide that feminine side and be strong all the time in order to make sure they're being respected and that they're going to be treated correctly and that they're a queen and this is how they're supposed to be treated, but they're doing it with their masculine side instead of their feminine.

and I think a lot of it is coming from a place of woundedness, too.

So I was that.

when I coach people who are in that, I'm like, girl, I'm basically you in like 20 or five.

That's what I was.

I was married acting like single girl.

I have my own money.

I buy my own thing.

If I want to go to Vegas with my friends and I'm paying for it, then my husband has nothing to say about it.

Really.

Fast forward now, my husband, it's not even a consideration.

Girls trip?

No.

I'm older, I'm more wise, whatever.

But that propaganda was definitely happening when I'm my 30s, my 20s also.

And that's where that confusion was, right?

But this, it's worse.

Many things are playing in this.

One, the guys are very risk averse and they're very much responding to that.

I don't need a man.

I don't need that messaging really took a toll on our boys and our young men in the last 20 years.

mean it was you're a white guy, toxic masculinity, all the things, the me too movement, all this stuff added up to like white man bad.

And so these dudes are like, even want to I don't like now this girl puts her camera on me just because I said hello and she's embarrassing me across the Internet.

No thanks.

I'm just going to kind of hang here and chill and play video games.

I'll DM her even though she's five feet away.

Yeah, but there's risks with that because a lot of them put the messages up on social media.

take a snap.

They'll put it in their girls group.

They'll talk about them.

It's, it's very toxic and the technology is really what it's at.

But to your point about the, you know, the masculine energy and all of this, the message of that girl boss thing, like I know a lot of girl bosses and they're all, you know, happy and wonderful, but they know how to turn that off to be around their man who's killing it.

crushing it in their profession.

So together it's like empire building as opposed to I got it.

I don't need a man.

It's a very angry, bitter, it doesn't put out a, there's no sweetness there.

Are they the same ones who are curious how they meet a guy?

Like how do you find the right guy?

But it's also that energy they're putting out that's bringing in the wrong guy.

Exactly.

And then there's this whole hookup culture, you know, it's empowerment for a woman to go out and hook up with guys and look, I could get this guy to buy me dinner and then I can go out with somebody else tomorrow.

Look at me.

I'm such a, you know, I'm a hard ass, whatever they want to call it, you know, they, but it's eroding you at the soul level, right?

It erodes you.

Like when you're a woman and you have, exchange, a sexual exchange with a man.

It's an energetic exchange.

So you're built as woman to bring life from out there through you onto the planet.

It's incredibly, it's a portal for life.

Right?

So that energy exchange, when you're with a dude and it's just casual and he's still hung up on his ex-girlfriend who cheated on him and now he has trauma.

you're absorbing all of his trauma in you on a DNA level, like on a, on a spiritual in your essence.

I learned this from like Joe Dispenza, like a bunch of people are like epigenetics is a thing.

And like if you're doing things that are damaging to your spirit, will manifest in the cell of your, of your cellular makeup of yourself.

Crazy epigenetics.

Epigenetics.

So epigenetics is looking at a total, like say it like a five year old with crayons.

It's looking at how life in general and your response to it impacts you at a cellular level in the genetic code of you, like in your cells.

And I mean, that's there's so many areas of that stress, like how you handle everything.

Right.

ah But as far as when you have sex, you are 100 percent absorbing the energy of who you're having.

You don't there is no such thing as a one night stand and you move on with your life for a woman.

And I that I just wish this was discussed more.

and it's compounded.

So like if you're a hookup girl and you're hooking up with some dude for a month and then it goes sideways and then you're onto the next dude, you don't just shake off the other dude energetically that's going to live in you.

And this is why you'll see women almost look like their light is dull.

There's a dullness in their eyes.

Even there's a stare.

It's a It's sad, it's very sad, it's the sadness that you feel coming off of them because they're being energetically sucked like vampire.

Yeah, strange.

They're drained because the female energy is so powerful, Super powerful.

So the flex to use a Gen Z term, right?

The flex isn't look at me.

couldn't get any guy I want.

I can hook up with anyone and look at me.

I'll do it.

And then snap your friends.

Look at this dude.

I took them home yesterday.

He bought me dinner for $300.

The flex is opposite that.

The flex is I know that I can get any guy.

and my guy has this, this, this, this, this, this, it's either that or nothing.

And I'm cool with being alone and not having sex with anyone until that dude comes.

And when you talk like that, that dude shows up.

Fast.

yes.

And I wish I wish I wish this was I wish I was seeing that all over more than the other.

And do you notice Gen X when we were in high school, there was shaming and there was the thing about that girl's a hoe.

Like I'm not hanging out with her and who you walked with was who you were.

Right?

There's an expression.

It sounds great in Spanish, but it's tell me who you walk with and I'll tell you who you are.

Right.

And my mother was like, yeah, those girls are not your girls from the way they dressed from the way they carried themselves from that.

It was a thing and there was pride in that.

wasn't that you were mean to them.

It wasn't that if I saw them in the hall, I wouldn't say hi, but I was not hanging out with that element.

I just wasn't.

And us girls kept each other in check.

There was a level of shaming, but that doesn't exist now.

Now they're cheering on bad behavior.

When we were teenagers to sound like a fossil, We were like, girl, are you going to go out dressed like that?

Like, dude, I get the whole Madonna thing, but like, really?

You can't be wearing lingerie with jeans.

Like, what are you doing?

And then you, you know, throw a sweatshirt on.

Like we're going to the movies.

Like, what are you doing?

Right?

Like we would talk like that to each other.

We kept each other in check, but today you go girl, you do whatever.

Meanwhile, the girl is obese.

and she's showing everything online.

Body positivity, girl.

It blows me away as a Gen X guy to see this.

It's like, happened?

Because I relate to what you're saying around, there were, we probably sound like dinosaurs, but there was a level of modesty that existed that seems to no longer be around today.

It's self-respect.

And I'm not sure what, I remember it's starting to happen when Our older son who's 28 was in high school, so it would have been 2011, 2012 is when I observed the shift.

It was a shift and that also was Instagram showing up and Snapchat showing up.

So that was all around that same time.

this convergence of smartphone and social media.

It just took it to another level in 2010, 2011, I agree.

And I think that's also when like Kardashians like hit a thing.

I think they had a major influence on the culture.

I think also that show, that Teen Moms show, that was, oh my God, awful for the culture.

The team.

Yeah, the team because they became little stars for being teen moms.

know.

glorified what Gen X come on.

You get pregnant in high school in 1986, you're taken out of school.

The teachers themselves, like that was a protocol.

You can't have a girl now in the high schools.

You have girls, eight trim, just last trimester belly out to here, throwing each other parties, baby showers in the cafeteria at school.

No, it was it's a it's a cultural shift.

It's a complete cultural shift.

And and it's got it's gone off the rails now.

And I think it has it's it's a huge part of when you see you said you see in young women's eyes the light dying.

I think it's a huge part of young women and women m losing their light, losing their energy, giving it away.

And they don't even understand that's what they're doing.

Exactly.

there's less support for what you were discussing, having self-respect, having restraint, sleeping with people when there's a relationship, when there's emotions, when you've built something, not just freely giving yourself away.

That is out the window, discussion like that.

I know I need to be brought back.

And luckily there is this whole like trad wife thing that's out there, you know, women being more forthcoming with that life because as a coach, when I'm talking to, when I'm talking to women and they tell me what they want, is the polar opposite to what they're behaving like.

And I tell them flat out that man that you just described, To me, he doesn't want what you're being.

So you're finding that they're coming to you and they do want a traditional marriage and children and that traditional life.

I mean the people who come to me yes, because that's the message I put out there um and typically my client are the very high achieving women or Men who got taken advantage of those are like my sweet spot.

It's the guy who Does well always has to impress women with money gets taken advantage of Feels like I really poured my heart into this girl and she broke my heart and I don't know what to do And they have to learn boundaries just the same as women do, right?

Men, they need boundaries too.

He flies in like Captain Save-A-Ho and he's giving money out.

And it's like, dude, you gotta like have standards for how you're treated.

If she disrespects you, she's out.

What's the background on those guys?

What do mean?

what's their background to make it so they need to have that flex and come in.

like their woundedness, like where it's coming from.

Got it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, everybody has like a very valid reason for why they show up as they show up.

It's not like any shade thrown at all.

It's actually that's the path to self-awareness.

It's like, oh, so this thing that happened when I was 12 and I was bullied because I was only like small.

didn't have a growth spurt.

I was little and I get picked on.

It made me.

m overcompensate through achievement and money later in life.

So my job is to have that man see that little 12 year old and reparent him because that little boy couldn't come home and tell anyone they're bullying me at school.

I don't get picked for teams.

I can't play sports.

I'm this on that, right?

There's shame in that.

How close to the line are you then between coach and therapist?

So this is very fascinating because a lot of people who come to me, they come after they've done therapy and they reach a certain point with therapy.

So a lot of it is a little rehashing of me asking them.

in therapy, did you ever hear of a concept called inner child work, inner child reconnection?

you do any inner child work?

And they're like, well, I talked about stuff as a kid and I'm like, okay.

tell me more and they'll share like, here's what I talked about in therapy, but where the missing piece is, at least for the people who come to me is they didn't alchemize it.

They didn't integrate it.

They didn't show this man or woman how to identify their inner six year old, their inner 12 year old, see them as separate.

and then go to them and ask them whether it's through journaling.

There are processes that I do with clients to help them achieve this, to really understand what did they need so much that they didn't get because that's what you're trying to get from people outside.

You're trying to get it from your boss.

You're trying to get it from your siblings.

You're trying to get it from your, men, the women you date your spouse.

So if you go back and you say, okay, wow, the number one thing I wanted at 11 years old was recognition for You know, being good, I was a good person and nothing I did was enough.

Like my older siblings always outshined me and I always had to compete.

So what do you want to hear the most?

If you were sitting in your 12 and you're with your parents, what did you want them to say to you?

I just wanted them to tell me that I was enough, that I was good enough just the way I was, that I didn't have to be as good as my older brother or as smart as my sister, that I a unique thing and I was good enough.

Cool.

So can you imagine yourself little and invite that little version of you at the table here with us and tell them that and they get a little tripped up.

So I demonstrate it and I say, you know, close your eyes and think of yourself as six, as 12, whatever the age is that you feel that sting happened.

And they'll be like, okay, I'm eight.

Okay, so you're eight.

Where are you?

I'm in my room.

Okay, cool.

And so let's go in there and tell this kid what we think of him.

So you be eight and I'll be you as an adult.

Okay.

I'm like, all right, do you feel eight?

Like, what are you doing?

I'm on the floor.

I'm like, what's with you?

My Star Wars action figures.

Okay, cool.

So you're in it.

I get it.

Okay.

So hey, sweet boy.

I love you so much.

just came from the future to tell you how special you are and how important you are.

And then I'm super interested in everything you have going on.

And I love you.

And I just want to let you know that you are enough.

And I know you have a big brother and a sister and they get all the attention and you're the little guy trying to catch up.

But I love you just because you are you.

That's it.

That's all I wanted you to know.

And you'll see a grown man.

tears streaming down his face because it's super heavy and it's just imagine like you're in a desert wanting water and you're wanting this emotional nourishment and water oh your whole life and you get it through an exercise like this through a coaching session with me and it's everything you wanted to hear your whole life in like 10 seconds and it's just like wow.

And then, know, you have to like, be there for them and hold space, right?

You have to be like, dude, this is the thing you've been waiting to hear your whole life.

Of course it's a big deal, but now you're going to know how to give that to yourself every day.

So this, clientele, you are saying these are probably fairly wealthy guys, powerful guys, breaking them down to get there.

And then there's a rebuild period after that, I assume.

Yeah, because they feel empowered once they know that they as adult with the company that they have or the whatever achievements they've had, then that version of them can go and reparent the wounded versions of them every decade of their life.

Like my inner child work ends up becoming a little bit of like a past version of you work, you know, like you're 50 years old, go hang out with the dude who was 30 who cheated on his wife and blew up his whole family and carries a lot of shame.

Like go hang out and have a beer with that guy and tell him you forgive him and all is well.

And you were operating based on who you were at the time and you're different now.

And I love you no matter what.

Like the self forgiveness piece is huge for people.

Yeah, I bet.

Do you find that then they start to uh show different patterns in relationships going forward?

100%.

So the main thing is a lot of the men that were hyper savior mode that stops and they learn to have boundaries and they learn to vet women and they learn.

I have a list of qualifications.

I have a list just the same as she does and I have no problem telling her this is what works for me.

And you want to be by my side and you want a provider and you want all those things.

This is what I want in my queen.

That's wonderful.

then for the so do you ever see um like real success like where you they find their person?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Um, so I coached the guy and this was like 2022.

It was like a little after 2021.

It was a little after COVID and um, his thing was exactly that.

He'd go for the prettiest girl and she'd buy me this, take me here.

I want to go on vacations and I gave him a budget.

I said your first date.

We're going to tap you into your creativity because you want to attract different types of women now.

And I said, $30 first date.

30 bucks, where am I going to go for 30 bucks?

Figure it out.

30 bucks, what am I doing for 30 bucks?

Second date, raise it to 75.

Are you serious?

When do I get to take her to like a really nice dinner?

I want to show her what I'm about.

Well, what are you about?

Are you about the flashy dinner or are you about me?

Get to know me.

When do I bring her to my house?

I usually would bring them back to my house.

I wanted to show them where, how I live.

Important, but no, not yet.

You, she has to prove that she's worthy of crossing the threshold of the house that you busted your ass to get for the last 10 years.

Not any little chicky P gets to cross the threshold of your kingdom.

So by the time you talk to them, they're not just trying to get laid, but they're trying to find someone, a relationship.

Yeah.

that I work with are the ones that want a serious relationship, marriage, kids that they're not coming to me to get laid.

They're coming to me for, want to meet my wife or husband.

right?

What you've coached them to do is believe in themselves enough that they can find that person without the house, without the flashy dinner, without all those things they need to.

They believe in themselves and they are the reward and the prize and all that other stuff is just extra.

But they have to have that self-confidence and self-esteem.

So through that healing.

Right.

And that forgiveness and all the things they have to let go to get there.

It's such a journey.

Well, you're being honest.

Yeah.

an amazing journey.

And that's why, like when I do coaching, it's immersive coaching.

So that means that these people have access to me between sessions.

It's not like therapy where you go and you talk and talk and they write a few squiggle lines and they're like, okay, see you next time.

This is more like you'll have a book and you'll have exercises and things and I'll give you things to work through.

And then you'll text me the next day and be like, holy crap, question five.

Are you kidding me with this?

And it's like, Hey, just breathe into it.

Like go away, go for a run and then come back to it later.

And it's like, Hey, I had this breakthrough.

There was something that happened with my brother and I called him and it happened when we were 14 and like, I worked it out with him.

And it's like, well, you advocated for your inner 14 year old now.

Like this is all about self advocacy.

Like go back.

in time and give these versions of you what they needed so that you're not seeking it from people outside.

Once you do it for you, you think you're going to let some some chick run game on you, you're going to be like, dude, nobody takes care of me better than me.

Man or woman, every woman say it to nobody.

Nobody should take care of me better than me emotionally.

Have you match-made it all?

Um, I have not.

I haven't.

Probably dangerous.

I know, I feel like that's more like divine and like, like I don't wanna have anything to do with that.

I mean, if it happens, like if I was to host an event and all the puppies are put in the box and they play and they, fine, all great.

Yeah.

Have you cut anyone off where you're where you've said this doesn't work?

And I'm sure that probably regular.

Yeah.

Yeah.

what kind of coach would I be talking boundaries if I can't assert my own and talking about standards and criteria and who you want to roll with and in a lot of narcissistic people out there, you know, lot of vampires, energy vampires, and I have to protect my own.

Right.

Absolutely.

Now the book you were talking about, did you create that?

Um, book?

Oh, so, um, it's, it's very customized, right?

So I have like created over the years, like these, you know, questions to really help people get to connecting to that version of themselves as a teenager, really a lot of questions about parents and how the dynamic was in the house growing up.

So over time I have these documents, these little worksheets, you know, that my clients get, um, And so yeah, you know, it's very customized.

You know, if they're coming at me saying like, Hey, you know, there was addiction in my house growing up.

had to like kind of step up and be the husband at 12.

My dad went to jail.

Like you get stuff like that.

And a lot of these people that I work with who are high achievers, they became that because they were forced to step up at a really young age and then they were praised for it.

So a lot of the kids that, Succeeded they had to deal with some dysfunction to put them in that place where they had to succeed But what did it locked it in for them was the praise?

Such a good boy Taking the lead like this.

You're like a young man.

Oh Okay, I'm getting approval for being like I'm 30 but really I'm 12 and the kids at school make fun of me But I have to show up like I'm 30 because mom needs me to be 30 because dad's in jail So this is what ends up happening later in life.

So in some cases it works great.

A lot of people hold on to that and they achieve and succeed, but they're doing it.

If not healed, they're doing another area of their life from a wounded place.

So typically for the people who have it so together professionally, they will struggle in relationships because water has to go somewhere.

Woundedness has to go somewhere if it's unhealed.

if you don't, yeah.

statement.

Really.

yeah.

Go ahead.

I know you want to go.

It brought me back.

It brings me back to earlier in the conversation.

I had a question around you were talking about how you it was related to your going to football games with your dad and, you know, becoming a football fan and you knew once the weather got cold and your stepmom wouldn't want to go and you would go and so you were chasing kind of that same thing you just described, right?

So I'm curious if the question I had, and it's almost to both of you in some ways, but I'll ask it to you.

Did you know it at the time or did you discover that as part of your healing journey?

And what you're describing is go back to the eight-year-old you and did you know it then or did you learn it as an adult, I guess?

I learned it as an adult and I looked very deeply at every decade of my life and I asked myself the series of questions that I now give to my clients of what did you want the grownups around you to know the most about you that they were missing?

They weren't getting it, right?

Or who did you want to be around that you felt didn't really have your attention?

in the way that you needed it.

All these deeper questions.

And I got to the age of between 15 and you know that 12 to 18, that teenager thing.

And that's when I was like, whoa, like you were going to jet games because now you're that little girl grown up 10 years later.

And that little girl would freeze her ass off just so she could have alone time with her And now you're 10 years later, still doing the same thing.

But now you're noticing boys and just same way you're chasing after daddy.

You're chasing after boys.

Do you see what you're doing?

Do you see it?

And then me sitting there and seeing like holding even a picture of yourself little like these are things that, you know, trigger you in a good way that you can see that girl and like, you precious girl.

These people didn't tell you these things.

I'm here for you now.

Yeah, interesting.

chase anybody.

We don't chase anybody.

You don't have to.

You're beautiful and you're kind and you're really smart.

And your dad loves you, adores you.

And he was just like really holding it together with everybody, but they all loved you.

And I know that you didn't get the love the way you And then you have a lot to say and you can say it all through me.

So you have an idea for a video, like let me have it girl.

I'll advocate for you.

I'll tell the whole world what you think.

And that's how you start to relate to them.

And then when they trust you, cause that's the self trust piece.

When you really can say, no one can take care of my inner 17 year old better than me, nor should they.

When you can have that much conviction, you think some dude is going to love bomb you.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You're gonna look at a dude, he's gonna lay it on you thick and you're gonna say, thank you, it's really nice of you to say.

But you're not gonna be like, yum, yum, yum, I need that, I need those compliments, I need you to see me.

No, I see you right here, you're beautiful, you're 17, I got you.

You sit over there, you're 17, you don't go on dates with 50 year old men, that's creepy.

You're my 17 year old me, you stay here, I put you behind me, and adult me goes on the date.

How do your women clients react when they have that epiphany, that breakthrough?

So there's a lot of, it's very cathartic.

So there's a lot of tears, there's a lot of ugly cry, there's a lot of release, and there's a lot of aha, like a light bulb goes off, and it's just a lot of space holding so they can connect those dots.

Sometimes in a session, somebody will start crying, and I'll just.

You know, be like, it's all good.

Like, sweetie, you're breaking generational trauma.

Like this isn't, you know, buying a new lip gloss.

This is serious.

And then they'll laugh and they'll say, you know, when you're ready, like share what you're thinking, what's what's popping up for you.

So it's the whole thing.

It's probably the realization that it's probably some shame, some guilt, some I'm such an ass to, my God, realizations in 30 seconds or less.

Yeah, I mean, typically I coach, like I said, it's immersive.

So sometimes people will have these in the shower.

And then they have nowhere to go with it.

But not with me.

With me, it's texting me, my God, I was just taking a shower.

And while the conditioner was in my head, I realized the reason why I was so mad at my older sister is because she was the one who got to go to some wherever vacation with my dad and I didn't get to go.

Mm-hmm.

So I have to call my sister and iron this out because we haven't been, we've been out of sorts for 20 years.

Oh my God.

Did you call your sister?

No, I'm calling her today.

We're going to have dinner this week.

That's amazing.

It really is.

It makes me think like, before you came on, I was thinking Lisa the love coach and I automatically was assuming you help people find love or you help people find their person or you help people know how to date and have boundaries and date appropriately.

But I think it's that you help people love themselves.

And that's it.

and always.

Yeah, that's what it is, is you're helping, you're empowering people to love all of themselves from the start and to become their authentic self.

And as a result, then they can go forward and have a healthy relationship and have a truly authentic love with someone.

But it's because you've helped them learn how to love themselves and accept themselves completely.

And that's what it is.

Right.

It's the love quest is that journey, the quest of exactly what you described, that true authenticity.

I love me not in a conceited dysfunctional like we see now right on social media.

Look at me.

Look at me is not.

I love me.

It's actually quite the opposite.

Look at me is very wounded.

It's coming from a place of lack.

But when you're fulfilled, You're just like posting a picture of you and your dog checking out a sunset and you're like feeling the vibes and you get like a bazillion likes.

It's the people that don't have to try so hard, right?

It's like, it's just like an essence.

Yeah.

They're at peace in themselves.

And they're themselves.

That's it.

That's the love quest.

don't have like that fear of missing out of anything.

They're like, no, I feel like staying in tonight because they're confident that they're not missing out on anything because they know that they are the they are the creators of their experience.

They're the creators of their life.

So I think to your point earlier, this attitude and this essence of, dude, I can legit go get gas and get hit on.

Period.

I don't need apps and any of that.

And people ask me, you met your husband on an app.

I'm like, I did not think for a second that my man would be on an app.

The kind of man that I wanted, not on an app.

Could really, can I imagine my husband sitting by himself on his couch doing this on his phone?

No, in a million years, no, that's not my man.

Hey, I never thought about it that way.

go, picture your dude, picture your ideal dude on a Saturday afternoon.

What is he doing?

How is he dressed?

What is he doing?

What does he care about?

What podcast is he listening to?

Like get in that get really manifested.

Really put yourself like, ha, because people don't know what they want.

And they're dating from a place of uncertainty.

They're dating from a place of, he gave me attention and he actually called and followed through.

Cool.

But honey, you have a list of things that you have to check to see is, is he your dude?

Is she your girl?

So you help people develop that checklist.

Yup.

And have faith that that person exists.

So now we get into like geeking out to quantum physics and all of this where your thought becomes a thing.

And the reason why you have a desire for this guy with these qualities or this woman with these qualities is because they exist.

Now you're getting led to them.

It's not, it's nothing but that.

So when I say to, when I, when a woman comes at me and she says, my God.

Your guy is amazing.

Your guy is everything you want him to be.

Everything you know he is.

So who is he?

How do you deal with the sabotaging person?

They find the person, they can't accept it or whatever, they recognize it, they can't accept that they sabotage it.

Mm-hmm that's rooted in a I don't believe I'm good enough for this and it's gonna and they're gonna dump me So let me dump them first That it all roads always kind of funnel into I am NOT enough When you handle that and you're like who told you that lie?

Right I think that's part of your work you do with them so that by the time they are out there, they're not going to self-sabotage because they've done the work.

So you're kind of you have to do the work, I think almost right.

Isn't that part of the coaching?

So you're so what's your what is your take on dating apps?

What's your how do you view dating apps?

So I did a video recently on my YouTube long form video about dating apps and who they're owned by and their conglomerates and they are owned by certain companies that kind of own other things too.

And it's very contrived and a bit insidious in that it is there to make money.

It's not there to couple people up.

It's actually designed to keep you single, agitated, almost like the same as Slap Machine.

It's a similar model to your mind.

How they designed it is very dopamine, same like casino vibe.

So it's like I said earlier, you know, these programs and these apps.

you'll get on and it's a fee, but then they'll hit you up with, Hey, if you want guys that are this way and they're in your area, pay more and we'll get these guys in front of you and you're not being put in front of enough people.

So this package lets you do that.

It's very, it's a lot of that totally is.

So you do pay for these apps.

I thought they were free, but I have no clue.

I assumed it was like the Facebook model, but you actually pay.

yeah.

Well, there's a free version for all of them, I believe.

But you're not going to see anybody, you know, you have 50 matches.

Pay this to see who they are.

Or you can see these 10.

So they've made it like, uh if you send us the link to that video, we'll throw it up on the YouTube version of the podcast so people can go look, can go to it.

We can, we'll pop up the link.

know it's it's kind of like, when I started to dig through this to prepare for the video, I felt like, oh, wow, these people are going to feel like they've been played.

It's like a skeezy getting ripped off kind of feeling.

There's very little success.

mean, all I see on social media are people complaining about these dates they're going on or they're getting ghosted.

That's the other weird thing is that the people that are texting messaging after they've matched, they've planned a date, they're going to go on the date and then the person just disappears three hours before the date.

And it happens.

And I don't understand.

I'm assuming that the person's married.

I'm assuming the person was just messing around.

the thing with these apps, you don't know what you're getting.

Right?

So like in my case, I met my husband, I was around mutual friends, I know their values, I know the people I roll with.

Right?

You kind of get a sense.

But these apps, you don't know the dude could be a serial killer, he could be married, could be, you know, embezzling money from his boss.

You don't know what these people are doing.

We've had some younger folks on, guess they're Gen Zs, right?

Talking about this and how it is like that.

They've got like protocols, right?

Maybe go get coffee versus go to a bar versus go to dinner.

And I can't even explain it all.

It's beyond me.

Yeah.

thing called the talking stage and that's where you're just on the app and you're just talking and maybe you'll give them your cell directly or a WhatsApp or something, but you're just talking, talking, texting, talking.

I'm like, this is a waste of time.

What are you doing?

But I get it because unlike when we were out there, You meet someone, you start talking to them right then and there.

You're out with your friends, you're at a bar, you're at a club, you're at, and back then clubs and bars do not what they are now.

Back then you're shooting darts, you're playing pool, you see a cute girl, you're like, hey, come over and play with us.

You know, like, okay, and you suck, and then you start to show her how, and it's a different thing.

Socializing is very different now.

And I believe, and I don't know, what do you guys think of this theory?

I have this theory.

that the reason why people struggle so much in meeting people now that they're in their 20s, 30s is because that was a generation where their parents arranged play dates.

So those little kids never learned how to make friends.

It was all contrived for them.

The mom called the other mom, Hey, can Billy and Steve like, can they play this weekend?

Yeah.

Between like Saturday at two and four.

Perfect.

And we'll drink wine and like, let them play.

It was very that whereas Steve and Billy don't even know if they like each other.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It wasn't like it wasn't like when we were kids.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it wasn't like that.

Yeah.

Well, you know, it's interesting.

No, it's that could be that it wasn't organic.

It was all play dates, all set up.

I still think I mean, I could have something to do with it, but I definitely think technology and phones is what's killing the dating apps is what's killing it completely.

No, it's going to what's funny is growing up in the Northeast, we had seasons so we would go outside.

being in South Florida, you don't really go outside to just go skewer around too much unless you have friends.

So it's not, don't know if the neighborhood kids are bumping around, but we did have our neighbors who moved in across the street.

One day the dad approached me and said, Hey, I think our friends, our sons are friends.

They play Xbox together and it turns out they're playing Xbox together, but they've never met each other.

They were really young though at that time.

Cause now I mean they they they they all bike.

I don't know down here.

They're they're biking.

They're out.

They are.

They're all out down here.

Yeah, you don't know.

Yeah.

are houses at all the kids, when the weather's good, when the weather's like super hot, everybody's inside, air-conditioned or whatever, but when it's good, they're in the street, they're playing their football, they're doing their thing.

Yeah, and I love to see it.

I love to see young kids not always on tablets and technology and just like taking chalk and drawing bases in the street and throwing balls at each other.

Like, I love it.

What they do mainly here is they bike, they scooter like we have a quarter store.

It's like a 7-eleven, but not they go there.

I mean, they're all over the place where there's Chick-fil-A.

You see them constantly everywhere.

You know, they are out.

And even I mean, even when it's hot, there's they have fishing poles.

I don't know about probably in Sarasota, it's the same, but they're on their bikes and they have their fishing poles and they're fishing.

So they are.

They're definitely out.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I'm just thinking.

Maybe in Jersey we just had a different neighborhood vibe, but there were more kids and they were just out.

I don't know, maybe because up in the Northeast you have such a limited time where it's nice that there's that pressure.

I remember living there where it's like, we got to use the nice weather because the bad weather is coming.

Where here it's like, you don't have that feeling that you need to use it as quickly.

Maybe, know, so.

having such depression when the weather changed.

my gosh, and you have to take the Rubbermaid bins of all your winter clothes and switch the clothes.

my god.

No, the whole...

I know.

What's the age like your clients?

What's the main age range or generation that you're dealing with?

I'd say Millennials and X.

Okay.

And how are millennials feeling?

I feel like millennials are always worried about like they don't seem very settled.

Are you finding that with them?

Are they very concerned?

So yeah, they're sweet.

Like I love the millennials because they're like the baby sister that I never had.

You know what mean?

And they were kind of sold the same bag of BS but way more expensive for them.

So like we were sold the BS of like go to college and like get a house.

And I did those things.

I was able to.

Went to college, got a house, whole thing.

kind of squeaked in there.

But now they're in that 40s range where, you know, some of them haven't yet met somebody or some of them are still caring way too much about what the parents think and it's holding them back.

They want to move to a new state.

They can't because they're family and they feel like, I'm single.

I want to go where the single people are.

like, but you can't leave.

Like there's different stuff.

A lot of it becomes more family stuff.

extended family stuff.

A lot of the Gen X people that I'm coaching, they're divorcing, empty nesting.

They're getting a new identity.

A lot of marriages are being saved because of it.

When you hit them with the like, wait a second, you mean to some of you people have been together for 28 years and you're thinking of getting divorced?

Why?

Well, because I hit menopause and.

and she's not wanting sex.

I'm like, dude, I'm 54.

My husband's 60.

You have to get like hormone replacement.

It's a game changer.

Really?

What's that?

How do I go?

Listen, I'm not a doctor.

I don't know.

You have to go through blood work and see if you're eligible and all of this, but you seem pretty healthy and there shouldn't be a reason for this.

Like, do you still like like each other?

Like, do you want to hang out with each other?

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I've known we've known each other for so many years.

Exactly.

You just lost the mojo.

It's not about you guys.

It's about your body stuff going on Physiology that you have to sort out and you can Like can you guys help each other find someone that does HRT and at least get blood work done?

Okay, we could do that Yeah, like can I give you an assignment where you'll go research this and you'll do it together as a team and then like go have lunch Yeah, okay make it like a date Okay, I'm like you guys don't need to get divorced you need to like sort out what's happening in your bodies and in your mind and then you'll be fine and They get and they feel like hopeful because I start I'm like did anybody cheat on anybody no Okay, what's the divorce thing for I just feel so depleted all the time I just he drives me crazy the kids are leaving I'm like dude the kids are leaving you're gonna be grandparents in ten years.

Like what are you doing?

You're not getting divorced Somebody's cheating on somebody and somebody's just literally unfulfilled different but this is just you listening to your friends that are going through this and thinking that this is the rite of passage like you raise your kids they leave you get divorced no it's not what's that doesn't have to be that Are you finding that um a lot of Gen Xers are considering divorce and you suspect that some of this is related to menopause?

thousand percent.

Super common.

Like when a couple who, when a couple who has known each other for like two decades, three.

get that mojo back and they start feeling good in their own body.

It's all game changer.

So are you having couples come to you that are in that Gen X range and that's happening?

The men are coming to you.

The men are, saw you on tech talk.

were talking about this thing.

My wife has this.

She said all she wants to do is sleep.

She has no desire for sex.

And I saw your video about women who aren't having sex with their husbands are going to get cheated on.

Like I saw, my God, I had to reach out to you.

I don't want my wife.

I don't want to cheat on my wife.

I don't want to lose my wife.

I don't want to have a great family.

And I'm like, well, first of all, good for you for being like the patriarch here to be like, dude, I love my family.

I'm holding this down.

but there's something wrong with my beloved and I want to sort it out.

Yeah, that's an amazing approach.

Yeah, instead of just being resentful towards her or, you know, thinking that she's doing this at him.

Right.

And the problem is they don't have the words.

They don't have the communication, the skills.

So he's not coming at her from a place of curiosity.

He's shutting down.

I can't bear to ask her again for sex because I know the answer.

So I don't even ask anymore.

That's a problem.

Shutting down.

Right.

But when you start to talk to each other from a place of curiosity, because you guys have been together since bread was built.

So right.

You know that there's a difference when you come to him.

Say, hey, I have a question for you.

You know how like when you do this, I want to know what that's about.

No judgment.

I'm just curious.

I noticed that you prefer to do this this way.

What is that about?

And he's like, because I like to I just learned something new about you.

Never thought I could learn something new about you.

I know you forever.

But there you go.

So like this is the thing of like rediscovering each other later from a more mature place.

Magical.

So yes, it's not the women come to me when they're ready to go.

Interesting.

And the men are coming to keep it together.

Very interesting.

But when you're talking about like a relationship, a Gen X relationship, and they probably been together between 20, 25, 30 years possibly, maybe 15 to 20, whatever.

And if they hit that space where menopause, perimenopause, menopause is hit, she has low libido, but maybe doesn't even realize why, because no one talked to us about any of that.

And he's the resentment is building from him.

So you can see how the whole relationship, because he's taken it personally, has nothing to do with him, but he's taken it personally.

So you have to get through layers of resentment because then she's resentful that he's seems mad at her or is like giving, you know, that energy he's shutting down.

So now they're both resentful with each other.

So you have to even get past that resentment to get them to even communicate with each other.

Yeah, and it's such a basic thing.

Like you get total primal with it.

I'll ask her flat out, do you think your husband's hot?

Like when you look at him, are you like, it's cute.

And she gets inch, right?

She's 16 again in that moment.

you He's he still has it going on.

And what do you feel like when you hear her say that I didn't know I didn't know she looks at me that way still so like do you check him out?

like what was the last time that you were checking out your husband and He's like that he perks up.

He's like I got to hear this right because I'm getting them to talk about things that they haven't spoken about They're in the minutiae of the day to day.

They're in the minutiae Who's going to Costco and who needs to get picked up from the airport and all of the things of life.

But when you hit them with, when was the last time you checked out your husband?

Like looked at him with lust.

Oh my God.

There she gets shy.

No, don't be shy.

This is your man.

know, honey, you had three babies with this man.

He's seen it all.

So tell him when was the last time you looked at your, looked at him with lust.

She's like, okay.

So remember the other day when you went to the pool, and the thing was in the pool, the dog got the toys in the pool and you were just moving the toys out of the pool.

Something about how you had that tank top, you just looked so good, my God.

I go, now what happened, like what would you think would have happened if you told him that then?

Like, do you think that if you paid him that compliment, like, let's ask him, Dave, if she told you, babe, you're looking delicious.

my God, the way the muscles in the pool, man, what would that have done to you?

He's like, I would have been like, she wants me.

And then what would have happened?

I probably would have been like, let's let's go out to see a movie.

Let's go do something tonight.

You would have asked her on a date.

So this is you going back to being meeting that girl at that at that concert.

She paid.

She showed you she gave you the green light to pursue her and you did.

So I said, honey, you have to own that feminine energy.

If you think your husband's looking hot, tell him.

Don't take that for granted.

You're going to be shriveled up little grapes in three in 30 years.

helping each other get from the couch to the fridge.

This is the moment your kids are grown.

You guys could be picking out vacations, weekend getaways, like get it hot again.

And if your body isn't communicating with the mind, if it's off, go to check that out.

Cause there's stuff you can take.

There's supplements, there's dietary changes you could make.

I'm not a nutritionist.

Go find one like their stuff you can do and But yeah, life's not over.

Yeah.

something extraordinary your next 20 years of your life.

Are you kidding me?

From 50 to 70?

You know how much fun you can have?

55 to 75?

Like, I'm in that range.

I'm like building a new house.

Yeah.

Well, and Gen X especially, because I think we're totally redefining aging and we're going to continue thriving every decade.

You we're not going to sit in the rocking chair and wait to die.

We're going to tackle every year until we're gone and live it like we're 30.

We were 30 when we're 10 and we're 30 when we're 50.

So that's not going to change.

But I think what you just said, that scenario, I love that scenario.

But I think that's something men need to remember is when she does.

show you that feminine energy and compliments you.

It doesn't mean, okay, let's go have sex.

It means what you just said.

You wanna go on a date.

Because that is, when we've talked about no, I'm laughing because you're like, maybe we'll go on a date.

I'm like thinking maybe we'll hit the bedroom.

See, and that's what they do, right?

But they need to understand you need to court to keep that, build that momentum to get to that place you want.

she needs to be courted.

I don't agree.

think he can go to the bedroom first, then go on the date and go back to the bedroom.

No, but that's the disc.

I think that's the disconnect, though, with men and women sometimes is that, you know.

are super, you know, especially your wife.

You're my wife.

I don't want to date my wife.

That's what they'll say.

Totally understand.

But if you bake a cake and you don't let the oven cook the cake and you pull the cake out, it's mush.

So you got to bake the cake.

you got you got it.

You got it.

I so it's all those little nuanced things that it's so that's how you get her.

Yes.

I'm laughing.

It's Yeah.

imagine football.

How boring would it be if every single time Tom Brady got the ball?

It's a long pass to a touchdown.

We'd be like, this is boring.

You want the sack.

You want the running back, running for the first down.

You want them to measure.

Did he make it?

Did he not?

Right?

You want the drama.

So there's no different in relationship.

Right?

It's like, I paid my husband a compliment.

So now we're in the bed.

Great.

It's like, wait a second.

Like I paid him a compliment and he said, thank you.

And he kept walking to the bathroom and it's like, well, he said, thank you.

Like, hmm.

And then later come into the kitchen.

Hey, so you feel like going to dinner with me later?

my God.

If your husband ever talks to you like that, like he's talking to you like you're his girl.

Feel like going to dinner with me later?

Yeah.

Uh, you know that dress?

The one you wore to Cathy's thing two weeks ago?

Break that out again, you looked good in that.

Okay.

That's it.

No, that's it.

That's.

now you didn't tell her where you're going.

Just come out to the living room at eight.

We're leaving at eight.

Okay.

Okay.

Kathy dress and we're leaving at eight.

Oh my God.

Because he's so in his masculine, he's allowed her to be so in her feminine.

He's put her right back in that giddy woman like, yes.

Yes.

like, m you ready?

You ready for this night?

Yeah.

I don't even know where we're going.

Don't you worry.

I got it all sorted out.

You got it all sorted out.

her guard is down.

Her stress level is down.

Like she's open and present.

She's not thinking about the kids.

She's not thinking about the dishes.

She's not thinking about Costco.

She's just him.

She's there with him.

But he put her there.

And that's what I think we could do an episode just on this.

That's what I think the disconnect between men and women is.

And that is what's also the problem with the younger generation where the women are being told to extinguish their feminine energy.

And that's what's happening here.

And then the men are on guard because they've been told they're assholes.

so they're never going to get...

Yes, they're not going to find that moment you just talked about.

Because a relationship is built on a million of those moments on top of everything else, because the day to day is a grind.

And there's bills and there's jobs.

And if you don't create those moments, that's what it's built on.

In addition to friendship, I'm big on friendship, but it takes effort, but it really, there's a saying that there's a.

Yeah.

Yeah.

it's not.

Yeah.

Like there's stuff to do.

Trust it.

You know, there's work and things and kids and all the things, but there's got to be moments for you too.

And it doesn't have to be these fancy dinners and it doesn't, none of that.

could be simple.

Like I had a couple make a playlist.

of all their songs from when they were dating and their little ritual is on like Friday night when the kids, their teenagers, they go out by the time they're already nine o'clock, the kids are done.

So they have like nine to midnight, the whole house to themselves.

Like put on your little playlist and dance around, have a little dance party.

You know, she's like, I don't like to go out when the kids are out.

It makes me nervous.

They're driving now.

You know, that mom thing, you know, Yep.

her in this energy.

I go, put that on your playlist, dance to some, you know, Pearl Jam.

No, you're so right.

Because that talk about somatic, that's somatic dancing big time.

But that brings you back to that person you were when you were 21.

You're back.

And then if you knew each other then, too, if you have that history, brings you as a couple back to that.

So and that you just touch on that mom energy, that mom energy is a thing, too.

And that mom energy can derail a lot of shit.

It really can.

kills boners.

Yeah, it's true.

That's the thing that women also struggle with is disconnecting and being a woman separate from being the mom, and especially when children are young, because they're so needed in every way.

But that's also where her husband needs to help her.

it takes a village thing comes in and we really lost that a lot in culture like we don't have it where families are within five minutes of each other and like It's Friday night.

You're gonna go hang with your cousins.

Your dad and I are going out You're sleeping over your cousins.

You're gonna have movie night and then the following week you do it for your sister So you're it's a village.

It's like and then you're gonna all stay at your grandparents house Like we're all like we do this rare now sad but I think because of economy there are more people living with different generations like multi-generational is becoming a thing again which is nice because you're getting teenagers like hanging with grandpa and grandpa's a boomer and like he's not taking shit at all and so like there's a lot of wisdom bestowed on you know the little gen zoomer who's like my grandfather is such a racist my god Yeah.

Right?

Like I can't even be in the same room with him, my god.

How does he even say that?

Like, dad, my god, right?

Like that.

It's funny because my mom lives with us and so our youngest who's 15 now, he's like she's been in his life at least like all his life, but living with him for like eight years.

No, that was our oldest, but eight years uh where she's been living.

And it's funny cause she'll do little things and he'll just be like, but I love it because that it's rare.

It's rare now for them to have that exposure to the older generations.

And it's so enriching.

It really...

a huge help, you know, when he was younger, because he was our surprise baby.

We have 28, 24, and then 15.

And so she did give us, she would take him because we were about to, you know, have older kids and then now a baby.

So she would take him and we would have be able to have those moments, you know, because and that did help in the middle of all the chaos.

And it's huge that that's not talked about enough is that support system.

because if it's only on the mom and dad, there's only so much you can take.

You need some support.

for sure, it used to exist more.

Like when we were teenagers, you had a house full of people for Christmas, right?

For holidays, it was like, whoa, tons of people, you're eating off of paper plates, there's a buffet, fighting for food, right?

Now it's, mean, there are people that they don't even know their extended family, they don't know their cousins, they don't, you know, they don't.

Yeah.

And I do think to your point, though, with unfortunately with the way the economy is going, well, our daughter just lived with us for two years before moving out.

But it was two extra years we got with her in the home.

She's only moving one town over.

Talk about family.

And then my mom, you my mom living with us, she got, you know, so it's it's unfortunate she had to, you know, live with us to save up to be able to do that.

But she we did have that multigenerational time.

So it's a pro and a con, you know.

uh I know for sure I got a lot out of my grandparents.

I have beautiful memories being on vacations with them and, you know, just all the things.

And it's sad that you see these videos of like these people and they're like, I can't even hang out with these people.

I'm going to cut them off.

Yes, yes, there's a lot of that.

There's a lot of that.

And yeah, that's a that's a whole nother thing.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

You said when you met your husband, you knew how long was it from then until you guys got married?

Okay, so we meet and I lay it out the whole deal of I want to be married and all this and he's like, got it.

And then I left it there and he proposed to me in four months.

Wow.

And I was like, yeah, like, you know, I don't he started poking around about my living arrangement.

He was like, so what's the deal with this apartment?

Like you said you moved in August.

So that means like your lease should be coming up soon.

And I was like, yeah, I think it's like October.

I have to make a decision if I'm going to, you know, renew for another year.

So, you know, I probably will.

And I was like, yeah, I want to like meet my husband.

I didn't mean like, let's do this tomorrow.

Hi.

Right.

So, you know, one day he sees that, you know, every time I'm coming for the weekend, I'm putting my dog in a kennel, like an overnight little camp, and I'm going to see him or going to dinner or going out on the town, whatever.

And then I'm leaving to go get the dog and go home.

So he's a thinking man.

He's like super masculine, like alpha, like got to think about what goes on.

And he sits me down at his center island in his house.

He says, so I've been thinking about something.

I'm like, mm-hmm.

He says, you know, on the side of my house, how I have like that whole side of my house with plants and weeds and things, what have I cleared all of that out, put grass so that Taz can come on the weekend too.

And he'd have his little spot.

And I'm like, yeah, that would be amazing.

And I'm sitting there like, he goes, cause here's the thing.

He says, I want you with me.

And I said, you want me with you?

Like, I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever say to that to me.

Like, I want you with me and you want to build my dog, a dog run on the side of your house.

Like, wow, pretty serious.

He's like, yeah.

You know, it's like one of those things of like, you said what you said.

Like, here I am.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was just like, wow, like, you know, when you know, and he's like, you'll catch up.

Like when you know, you know, I'm still going to show up for you the way I show up, you know, because in the beginning I was like, well, like this guy is a little, like either he's the man of my dreams or a complete psychopath.

So I have to give it time to see, but consistent every time, just always showing up the way he was generous, super smart, kind problem solver, take initiative, always felt.

brain tarred off safe.

Don't have to worry about stupid stuff.

You know, was great.

It was awesome.

And then, so to answer your question, we got engaged, but we're not crazy people.

We waited another year before we got married.

So we're married.

Um, we got married in 2022.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we're still like, you know, honeymoon thing, but we, But it's funny we joke around because I'm like, wow, we're only together like 2021 to now.

It's five years we're together.

Married for because it was like a year and a half.

I go, feel like I've known you for longer.

I feel like we've done so much in the time that we've been together.

Like we built a house, got dog, like lived in house.

Now we're going to build another house, move to Texas.

And like my family's coming to.

into their own house a few minutes away.

And it's just like, wow, like we did stuff fast.

That's amazing.

Why are you guys going to Texas?

So husband was hiring people and in his company they divide the country, even the world, into zones for how you're employed, how you're paid.

And he learned that if he moved to a zone two, and then he looked at the list of what are zone two cities and which are ones that he would consider, he saw Austin, Texas.

And then he said, what are the suburbs of Austin, Texas?

found ones and he said, if we move to this lovely little suburb, we can make like a considerable, like a life changing amount of money more.

I was like, Oh, give me three minutes to pack.

Let's go.

Right.

Let's do it.

And then I kind of was mulling it over because I have family in New York.

My, my dad and my stepmom there in Brooklyn, my mom and my stepdad and my mom has dementia.

And I'm kind of like, I don't really feel good about leaving.

So I floated the idea of like, I want my family with me.

Mark and I have to move to Texas.

And yes, we would just built this house, but this opportunity is here and we have to seize it.

And we have to think of our future, all the things, but I want my family with me and we have to figure it out and we will.

And that's what ended up happening.

We went, we found a place, build a house, starts getting built.

I think this month at the end of the month and.

went six minutes away, found a little 55 plus community from my mom and my stepdad, got the girl there to talk to them, showed them floor plans and whatever.

And they were on board too.

And then I talked to my dad in Brooklyn.

He said I sent him some links of like apartment complexes and he was fired up.

He's like, this place has a gym and it has a pool and it has all these things like this makes my Brooklyn apartment look like, like, you know.

I'm like, dad, like, goes, this is the plan.

You guys move into your new house.

We come down to visit.

We go see apartment complex and we'll decide right then and then we'll move down too.

And I'm like, my God, could please like, would be great if you did.

That's That's absolutely amazing.

I'm like, look, even if it's three years, five years that I have with them that we can all just hang out and have fun and just, you know, I could like go grocery runs for them.

Be like, like, what do you guys need?

It's Tuesday.

You're on, you know, you're up.

I'm going to the market and then I'll swing by, drop everything off, cook, have a lunch because my business I can, you know, allocate.

I can do it.

However.

That is amazing.

I'm so happy for you.

you.

I know it's like a big thing.

It's really a big thing.

I'm like, my God, could you imagine in a year I can have like both sets of parents within minutes of my house.

Because when was the last time you had that?

Oh, never because my mother and my stepdad were on Long Island and I lived in Jersey.

So they were an hour away.

And then my dad and my stepmom were in Brooklyn.

I was in Jersey.

They were 45 minutes away.

So we were always driving distance, but there was always some kind of distance.

But now to be six minutes up the road.

Yeah, every all that Jersey New York, it's all close, but it's a real pain in the ass to get around and you know.

Yeah, yeah.

you looked at the mileage to go from it's 15 miles to go from, know, and, and we used to kill me was Monday to go to work the same exact commute an hour and 20 minutes.

If I did that same commute on a Friday night to go to have dinner in the city, I'd be in the city in 19 minutes, right through the tunnel and out the other side and boom right there.

We lived in Sparta.

worked in Clifton, so close to Giant Stadium near New York.

To your point, some days, if you asked me what's the commute, I'd say it can range from 45 minutes to two hours and 45 minutes.

And it could be anything.

It could be weather related, sun related, whatever.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

Well, how exciting though then.

I'm so happy for you with this move and then having your parents near you.

mean, And then your business is, um there's always a need for your business.

That's one thing you can count on.

I wanted to like take it in this other direction to like we were talking earlier to really have face to face fun activities, events, things fun to do.

So whenever that is coming to fruition and you're ready to discuss it, we'd love to have you back on just to discuss that.

I would love to come back on it'd be great.

We could also go into like the married couple stuff too a little more if you want like there are plenty things to talk about and you guys are great and I'm Grateful that you had me on I've been watching you for so long I was like going down the rabbit hole of gen x tik tok and I found you guys I'm like, I'm totally following them Now we're so happy that you came on, I just, I, there's so many more, like you just said, there's so many more things I'd love to go even deeper in.

So we would like to have you back on just to maybe even like cover this one topic.

And it doesn't have to be this long.

It could be even like an hour, you know, but just to touch that we would love to have you, have you come back on.

Cause there's so much tied to what you do.

And some of it is so nuanced too.

So just to really like break it down.

And I think it would really help.

a lot of our listeners.

I know a lot of what you talked about today resonated with so many people and I think to even take it further would be so helpful because, you know, absolutely.

you know, I couldn't stress it enough.

Like Gen X, we went through a very unique childhood and there was a lot of self resilience there, which is awesome.

But there was also a bit of emotional neglect.

And if that isn't dealt with, it's going to trickle out in relationships.

And I'm sure many people who watch this today, they, I hope they feel seen and I hope they feel like.

There's no shade thrown on that.

We were just raised Gen X, right?

So now we have an opportunity to come home to ourselves and heal.

100%.

And it's funny, we were raised the way we were raised and then we were supposed to marry each other.

And we all have these problems and these, this lack of emotional development.

And, and then we were grinding.

And again, I feel like we've all come to this part of this age now where we're all kind of looking at ourselves and looking at each other.

And we're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, everyone stop.

Let's, let's focus on ourselves.

Like what, what's wrong with us?

Let's fix it.

And I feel like a lot of us are there and kind of Hey, where the Gen X is the figure it out generation?

So now we just get to figure ourselves out and if you have the blessing to do that in the company of your beloved Right like you're going through stuff But the person who's been by your side for the last 20 years like they're like hey I got stuff to deal with too like our kids are grown and I've put all my focus on them and now I'm looking at myself like this big zit in the mirror and this is thing I haven't healed and you can do that together.

You don't have to like right away It's get divorced.

It's not.

It's another whole opportunity to get closer.

It's so true.

It isn't just what you're doing.

Isn't just helping people heal and love themselves and find themselves again.

And it isn't just to help people find the love that they're searching for, but you can help couples find each other again, too.

There's so many levels to what you do.

It's amazing.

I mean, it's not it is cool.

I love your approach.

So fulfilling.

It must be so fulfilling.

Yeah.

When you're in a session and somebody has like that light bulb moment and you see it in their eyes and you're like, what?

Oh my God, what?

What happened?

Like, what do you think?

Oh no, the thing you said.

And they go into it and then you're just kind of quiet and you're listening to them piece it together for themselves.

You're like, this is what I do, what I do.

Like, I get it.

yeah, that's cool.

And I see in my mind's eye that it seems like it all just kind of started in Miami when you when you had that transformation and then seen everything that's happened in your life since then.

It's like it's it's so fate.

It all just fell together and it's exactly where you're supposed to be.

It's just this beautiful journey.

Yeah.

And you know, I always say like the hot mess journey.

There's beauty along the way, right?

Yeah, the roads was bumpy and muddy, but like every now and then you look out the window, you see a rainbow.

It's nice.

Right.

It's good.

I ask my last question, do you have any more questions?

do have one that is potential rabbit hole, we don't have to go too deep.

The pool scenario you were describing, the wife looks over, sees her husband, and what's interesting to me, so I'll ask you as a female perspective, I can relate to what you were saying, but because I feel like I've hit this age of...

Semi-enlightenment right I can kind of get my head wrapped around this uh and not be such a uh Jackass maybe for lack of a better word that would try to go right to the bedroom.

Maybe I get the concept of let's go have dinner, right?

I get all that Are you seeing though?

My curiosity is the age of this I've hit that that age where I can wrap my head around it What are you seeing with your clients where as a does a?

Gen Z or, you know, is that a Gen X thing?

you know what I'm saying?

What's the next generation behind us?

Is it a Millennials?

Are they there too?

Or is it more of the Gen X?

That's a more Gen X thing.

Cause they're dealing with like they've been together forever.

They've raised kids.

Like they're looking at each other like, now what do we do?

Like, who are you?

You know, and, the guy, the husband is like, I don't even know if she's into me anymore.

Cause she's kind of grumpy all the time.

Right.

And she's, he doesn't get me.

And because she's like, well, who am I if I'm not mom?

Who am I if I'm not doing.

things.

So they there's this really weird presumption.

It's like a you know, I guess this is when everyone gets divorced because they start to nitpick at each other and get at each other's throats and then they're like one person is like well now that these kids are gone like I want to travel and the guy or is like well I want to go fishing or I don't want to travel anywhere.

The flights are horrible traveling is terrible.

It's not what it was 20 years ago.

These people wear pajamas to the plane.

It's disgusting.

That is you.

And I don't want it right like and now they're there and immediately they go to well that's it we need to get divorced we want different things we've grown apart and it's like no dude that's not what's going on you just don't know each other like this you know each other in your roles Right, and your roles.

Yeah, very much.

That's it.

But are you finding, because you said that the men come to you to try to save their family, their marriage, and I think that's tied to what you're talking about, because you're 50, he feels like around the time he turned 50 is when he kind of started appreciating his life and really Maybe he started growing up a little.

Yeah, and so I'm wondering with the men that are coming to you, maybe they have either.

looked around and realized they find they appreciate their life or they need to work a little bit harder here or they've gone through a maturity jump.

I don't know.

Yeah, so like guys are super basic.

Like they don't, they're not complicated.

They're just like, make me some good food and let's chill and watch TV and like have peace in our home.

Yeah.

The women are the ones that need a little more seasoning to the turkey, right?

Like a guy is not, they don't need the whole momentum.

So to bring it back to your topic about the pool, you don't need the revving up of the engine, so to speak.

Right.

She complimented you, baby.

Looking good.

Damn.

Look at you.

sun hit you in the right way.

You're like, all right, let's take this to the bedroom.

Cause you don't need anything else than that.

You're like, cool.

She complimented me.

It moved.

Let's go.

Right.

uh But she, it's good.

See, to answer your question.

Good.

But like, I know we're joking around about it, but you will not, mean the level of success or interest.

just by complimenting your husband because he doesn't think you're into him.

It's a big deal.

Like the very big deal.

Like if your husband knows that you desire him, that's, that's a whole thing right there.

That's a, it's a big ego hit, right?

Like they need to know that you still want them desire.

And a woman does too.

It's just that the way she wants to be shown is different than the way he wants to be shown in some ways.

so in that grind masculine energy that she won't be playful.

Like she won't, you know, husband's in the bathroom getting out of the shower and she's in there and she flashes him her boobs.

Like that's not happening and it needs to bring back that playfulness.

And especially now the kids are gone.

They're grown.

oh You get the whole house to each other have like naked Wednesday like figure it out You're so right.

You're so right.

I think that, but he also has to work hard to put her in that feminine energy where she can be playful.

It's all connected.

And it's like olive branching, right?

It's like the whole thing when you're kids and you're like, no, you go first.

No, you go first.

No, you're not going to do this unless you do this first.

So, you know, it's true.

Like as, as, as the, um, as a woman, you harness your feminine energy and you see your man looking good and or smells nice.

That's a big one.

Like breathe him in when he kisses you.

Goodbye.

Like say, Oh, you smell good.

What are you wearing?

my God, the girls are going to take you away from me.

Right?

Like be that, lift him up and then you'll, you know, text them emoji kissy face.

Like get that flirt going again.

He'll be like, who the hell is this?

Who is this woman texting me a kissy emoji in the middle of a Tuesday?

Yes, it's so true.

It's not my birthday or father's day.

Like, why is it?

It's just Tuesday.

You have to be careful though, because there are narcissists out there.

are men that will eat that up and they won't treat her any different.

They'll just...

But that's what I mean about the age, because you can really abuse that and shit on a good thing and really have that backfire.

that could lead to the divorce, right?

mean, if there's, if there's toxicity, like what I'm describing is just people who are disconnected, but there's love there and respect, but there, but then you do have instances where people have been together for years and years and years and it's been toxic.

It's been, you know, berating and abuse and all of this.

And so in those cases, yeah, people wake up and they're like, my job here is done.

My kid is last kid is out the door.

Yeah.

But I think.

But what you're talking about, the people who have been married for a long time and are disconnected, that is not talked about enough.

And I think, yeah.

little ounce of video about that anywhere, get that's where I get a lot of the men coming to me like, Hey, would you just describe, you know, when did you go on HRT?

Like tell me more about that.

And did your husband make you go?

And I was like, hell no.

My waistline made me go.

Like I made it about vanity.

was like, listen, I'm gaining weight and I got to figure it out.

And that's what did it.

And the side effect is like, woohoo, know.

it's no HRT like save me.

wish I would have known about it when I was 40, you know, I wasted like my 40s.

I didn't realize until I was 50.

It's because no one talked to it.

That's another reason I'm always any time we can bring up perimenopause or menopause on the podcast.

I don't care who's the guest.

Like we got to say something because I just want the younger women to know, start preparing now.

You don't have to suffer the way we did through our 40s, you know.

HRT, whoo.

big on it.

Did you have any other questions?

No, no, I'm good.

I really appreciate.

I love your perspective.

I love your style.

I love the approach you're taking.

really hope, I think people who hear this conversation, really do think it's just helpful.

And I hope they reach out to you, really.

I I hope this drives a bunch of people to you and you can.

have that excitement of in fulfillment of helping them.

I think you're doing a great job.

Yeah.

Build on your already business.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

You bring humor into it too.

I'm you lighten the mood when it needed for sure.

So you have to have levity with all this stuff.

You do.

and it's interesting because it's knowing when to insert that because you have to also see them as serious.

Like their problem is super serious in their world.

This is a big deal.

And when you can balance that both and be like, no, I hear you.

This is serious business.

Like your whole family is about to blow up if you make this decision.

Yeah.

at the same time like when was the last time you saw him and thought he was hot?

It's such a like And you know and these are techniques like there's you know Neuro-linguistic programming there's stuff where you like ask a question in a certain way.

That's supposed to be like a pattern interrupt to their Track of thinking it's like a dissonance that happens that snaps them out of it So it's like little techniques and things but like I make it fun.

It's fun like inner work does Inner work does not have to be this scary thing because a lot of people find it daunting.

It's almost like they are afraid of like opening the cover of a box of what's going to jump out at them and they don't want to deal with it.

They would rather just, you know, suppress, suppress, suppress, but their life isn't progressing in the direction they want it to go because they have a box that they have to look at.

They have to open the lid and get in there, you know, so.

is known for that.

Gen X is all about sizing things up.

Like we are truth seekers.

You know, we want to get to the bottom of stuff.

Yeah.

It's funny you say that because I thought that was the Northeast thing, but it feels it's more generational because I, you know, I was thinking about this earlier when you were saying, you know, you're much more relaxed and whatever.

I'm pretty relaxed too.

But we were in New York a couple of years ago, man, I got real, I got defensive.

I was ready to go.

Ready to protect us.

Yeah.

that energy there.

It definitely brings that out of you.

I mean, it's a, it's a protective energy.

Yeah.

And you get very hypervigilant about the people around you also.

And when you're not in that environment for many years and then you go back, it's just the high frequency.

It's almost like writing an escalator for the first time, right?

Where you're just like, yeah, it's weird.

draining.

Yeah, you go back into your Jersey mode and you are exhausted by the end of the day.

Okay, my last question is always, where do you see yourself in five years?

I like this question.

Okay.

So in five years, I am living in the dream house in Texas.

I would say I am known in that community for helping people, bringing fun and connection, getting people off technology and interacting.

um and just chilling and floating in my pool.

Awesome.

Sounds wonderful.

oh And that one getting people connected again, I'm really excited to see what you come up with there.

So you have to keep us posted for sure.

Definitely keep us posted.

And we again, would love to have you come back on.

It's been wonderful to hear your story, Lisa, and everything you you've been through on your journey and just watching your journey and where you've ended up and how much you're helping people now.

because of what you went through and all the different levels to it.

There's so much to it, you know, because I know we just touched the surface, but ah I know it's going to resonate with so many of our listeners.

And so we can't thank you enough for coming on and spending this time with us.

Thank you both and keep GenX adulting.

Woo!

We will.

We love it.

We love all the people we meet and hear in their stories.

And we know all of our guests share something that will help someone feel seen and understood.

And that's the whole purpose.

So and uh we're going to leave all of your socials and how anyone can get in touch with you, your website.

It'll be in the description of the podcast.

But for all of our listeners, you can leave any comments, questions.

We'll make sure Lisa sees them.

And of course, we always love your comments and questions for us and we will see you next time.

Bye.