Do you ever catch yourself rehearsing what you'll say at work, may be terrified that one wrong phrase could turn people against you.

I've definitely felt that fear myself, and Claire Stephens, when she was editor in chief at Mamma Mia lived too.

Claire told me the turning point was accepting mistakes, her own and everyone else's.

And by the end of this quick win you'll hear how Claire reframed mistakes as part of moving forward, and why the most powerful apology is often the simplest one, sure, unreserved, and then done.

Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your date.

I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber.

You know when I heard other leaders talking about this, I remember just going, oh, I've so experienced that, Like in my own business, where you know, there have been times where I've just been so like conscious of what I'm saying, like in like you know, and all staff meeting and like rehearsing, which which seems like ridiculous We're a small business, we're a small team, but like just having that real fear of like if I say even the wrong phrase or the wrong sentence, like people could just turn on me, and I feel like some of that's irrational, But then, you know, I've also seen instances, you know, in people I work with and advise, where it's like, ah, yeah, you know that can kind of happen.

So like, how did you navigate it when when you were editor in chief?

I tried to very much accept that I was going to make mistakes and other people were going to make mistakes.

What's hard is probably if you have a culture where you're really hard on other people for making mistakes and quite you know, really making it about who they are rather than what they did.

I think that probably comes back at you.

Whereas if you foster a culture of we all have to try things, and we are all going to stuff up and do the wrong thing and make the wrong call, but we've got to make decisions and we've got to move forward, and I'm prepared to learn from my missteps and I want you to be as well.

I think a big part of that is autonomy.

Fostering autonomy because then people see that they make mistakes too, and if there's grace for those, they'll give you grace.

But yeah, I think it's because as a leader as well.

Pragmatism is so important, and pragmatism is different from idealism, and there are many times where you cannot do the ideal thing because of a million different factors.

And it's really easy when you don't have the responsibility to look up and think, well, I would have done it this way, and I would have just done this, and you're like, oh god, if you were juggling all the invisible things are juggling and had to make the tough call, and it's like, maybe you would have, and I'm sure you get the opportunity one day, but you know, there's a lot about being a leader that's really hard.

So I think that that's the important thing.

Having a culture where people are allowed to make mistakes and you give them grace to that, and where communication is really direct and open, so there's no kind of not bitchiness, but there's no kind of you know, this invisible tension that's bubbling away where you're actually nipping things in the bud.

I think that that makes a big difference.

I want to know about apologies, because that's obviously generally some kind of conclusion is an apology, and I feel like there's been so much written about how to apologize, Tell me, like, what is the best way to apologize?

In the book, I explore very much the fact that online, I'm not sure there is a best way to apologize.

I have seen people apologize in really, really effective ways, but I think there's certain types of people who already have very very very good grace and are only guilty in inverted commas of certain relatively minor social crimes.

But I think once you are perceived in a certain way, no matter what you say is going to be interpreted in bad faith.

For example, there are many many cases where you really want to explain the context behind something that's happened, because you're thinking, if only people knew the context, finally people knew all the behind the scenes things that led to this decision.

Most of the time people don't care, and most of the time people will tear them apart because there's no way.

There's not enough words to add the right weight to that and to provide all the relevant details.

There's just not so I think often the best way to apologize is short and no, unreservedly.

There's no excuses, there's just I'm apologizing, and then actually move on because The thing about the media cycle, and this has been a really interesting thing to learn working in digital media is an apology is another story.

So if I'm working in digital media and say there's the Coldplay scandal that blew up recently, the guy the Coldplay concert who cheats on his wife and hooks up with someone, that story is just going uts writing about it, writing about it, writing about it.

If he publishes an apology there was a fake one, there's all that my stuff, which adds so much complexity.

But if he publishes an apology, that's another opportunity to run a story.

And then if he posts something else about it, that's another opportunity.

So the more you do, the more it actually just adds fuel to the fire.

So the less you do, the quicker the fire ends.

For the mental health of the person at the center of it.

I think that's ideal, but I think you have to accept that you're not going to satisfy everyone.

There has never been an apology online that has satisfied moral benchmark for every single person, and so you just have to be as direct and I think brief as possible.

And it's a really important thing as well for people whose work depends on being online.

Be very aware that who you are online is not who you are.

That is an avatar, that is a version of you, that is a character, and the real you that goes home and has relationships with your family and goes through the world is a different person.

And not to conflate the two.

I think that's when it gets really dangerous.

How about apologies in the workplace.

I imagine you've had to make apologies when you're in a leadership role.

What are the differences.

I have made many, many, many apologies probably looking back, and I think probably some people I managed would say there's probably too many.

I think there's a line between being very accepting of the fact that you make mistakes and then being a bit of a people pleaser, and being a people pleaser is socially confusing for people.

I very much kind of came out the other end of being editor in chief, thinking that's actually not helpful for people if you tell them what they want to hear all the time.

So if someone's annoyed at you, that's not necessarily something you have to apologize for.

And I only learned that recently.

If somebody was annoyed at me, I was like, I am so sorry I've done the wrong thing.

How did you learn that lesson.

From my interactions with other people who didn't do that?

And I think it's a maturity thing.

I've had female managers who are just freaking brilliant at being able to say like, I can see you're frustrated, I can see you're upset forward, but they're not apologizing for what they did because they often haven't done the wrong thing.

But it also just it makes you feel safe.

It makes you feel safe that they own their decision making and that they are being honest with you.

They're not telling you what you want to hear.

I think that that's the best thing in the workplace is transparency and honesty.

So I think apologize when you've done the wrong thing, even and this is hard, but to I think sometimes I'm thinking like as a leader, apologizing to your team, but also apologizing upwards when you stuff up, which can be really embarrassing.

But I think if you say, hey, you gave me this project and I really run with it, and in hindsight a run in the wrong direction like that just shows a lot of self awareness and definitely shows that person that they can trust you again because you've learned your lesson.

Clai's a reminder really stayed with me that overapologizing can be confusing and it can also make people doubt your decisions.

So instead, Claire learned to apologize only when she genuinely made the wrong call, and to do it clearly even when it was embarrassing.

Kind of like owning a project that had gone in the wrong direction.

So the next time someone's upset, pause before saying sorry, ask is this a real mistake or just tension?

I want to smooth over and if this resonates.

The full episode with Claire goes deeper into apologies online and at work, and the culture leaders need to create so people feel safe to get things wrong.

You'll find the link to that in the show notes.

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How I Work was recorded on the traditional land and of the Warring Jerry people, part of the Colon nation.