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This time of year always reminds me of the Rendelsham Forest incident, because I'm interested in UFOs and there are those famous events and this is one of them.

In fact, it put Britain firmly on the UFO map.

In December nineteen eighty, over the nights of the twenty sixth and the twenty eighth, US Air Force personnel stationed at two nearby bases, rif Betwaters and Woodbridge bordering Rendelsham Forest on England's east coast, reported extraordinary encounters after leaving base to investigate lights in the surrounding forest.

They thought it was a plane that crashed, but it turned out to be much more.

In fact, Lieutenant Charles Halt was recording as he and fellows servicemen approached the scene.

Mary air possibly could be a plant, not a small glass?

What looks like a glass or struck up area here?

Pretty positive brain?

See is that center?

Yes?

This is what we like that center?

Thinking up all go off.

To seven tents.

Seven seven years.

That's calling on that point.

On scale, all right.

So they go out in search of if they can find any radiation.

So they've got this equipment and they find what they believe to be a blast site, and they're still picking up radiation.

And this is after whatever came and landed in the forest came and went.

So the question even remains today, forty five years later, what did the air force encounter?

There were also those civilian witnesses.

One villager in particular reported a mushroom like object flying over his garden.

And it was not the first or the last time some of this stuff has happened.

At Rendalshom Forest.

In the heart of Suffolk, England, lies a place shrouded in mystery and intrigue, Rendelssome Forest.

It was here, in December of nineteen eighty that one of the most compelling UFO incidents in history unfolded.

Witnessed by military personnel stationed at nearby ra at Bentwaters, they encountered not just lights, but an experience that would challenge their understanding of reality itself.

But what if these events were not confined to a single night.

One of Randelsome Forests holds secrets that extend far beyond that fateful December.

And there was a flash of blinding light and then the appearance of a pyramidical shaped object.

It made no sound and as I got nearer and nearer and got under it Hickon.

In this film, we embark on an extraordinary journey back to the site where history was made, exploring not only its story past.

To start filming as massive helicopter repairs.

But also its present, a place where strange sounds echo through the trees and shadows flip.

Just beyond our visions.

We will also look into the Cepi process close Encounters of the Fifth Kind, which claim that through meditation you can manifest.

Orbs freaking well and even UFOs.

Could our investigation reveal answers that change how humanity perceives its place in the cosmos, or will we find ourselves lost among legends and folklore.

One thing is certain, but lies ahead may redefine our understanding of existence itself.

William B.

Davis, smoking Man from The X Files, doing the narration for the new film from our guest, Mark Christopher Lee, the rendallsham Ufo, the British Roswell.

Mark Christopher Lee is a writer, producer, director and musician who's made several films about UFOs and the paranormal, and he joins us now.

Hello, Hello, thank you for having me again.

Oh it's my pleasure.

Now, you're not too far away, at least in the vicinity of where the Rendelsham Forest incident happened back in the day, right.

I'm a couple of hours drive away.

But yeah, that's not that far, is it.

I mean, in the scheme of things, it's it's it would take me days to get there, you short hours drive.

Is this an event though, that is ingrained in you?

I mean, is this something you grew up hearing about.

It was the first major UFO case in the UK, and there were a couple of things that got me into.

UFOs in the first place.

In the paranormal there was Arthur C.

Clark's Mysterious World, a TV program in the UK, and then the X Files, which sounds a bit cliched, but that kind of.

Opened my mind a little bit.

And then you know, this Renders from Forests case was kind of reinvestigated in the nineties and there's so much more has come to light, so I wanted to make a film about it.

So tell us about the event as you've come to.

Know it, sure, I mean, like you said in your intro, is over the Christmas weekend nineteen eighty twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight December, the twin Air Force baces, which were both NATO bases with US serviceman station there.

They were both holding nuclear warheads, which I think is important to mention.

And over that course of the weekend, various officers saw life in the forest, renders from forest.

A couple of them went out to investigate, Jim Peniston and John Burrows.

Jim Peniston claimed to have seen a triangular shaped craft and which had landed and he claimed to have touched it.

It had strange hieroglyphics on.

Peniston also said that he had a binary code download, which is quite important.

I'll talk about that later.

And yeah, it's just a whole weird weekend.

Then Colonel Holt, as you've alluded to, recorded his trip out into the woods and that's very very weird what he saw, you know, and it still can't be explained today.

Something definitely happened that one of two of the main witnesses, Jim Peniston John Burrows, both suffered from ill health due to the incident.

So something physically happened in that forest and affected people of course, of those three days.

And so you believe that nuclear warheads played as significance here.

We've heard that in other instances, the Malmstrom incident probably the most famous example in the US, but over there in the UK.

Whatever was landing here and maybe was it a landing or was it a crash had some interest in those.

Will take a break actually come right back with Mark Christopher Lee and get his thoughts on that as we talk about the Rendelsham Forest incident tonight, I'm Jeremy Scott.

Somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.

We will be right back.

Into the paradormal parent.

December of nineteen eighty the Rendolsum Forest incident.

The filmmaker of the rendalsrom Ufo, the British Roswell, Mark Christopher Lee, is with us.

So nuclear warheads on the property that may have played a role here, Yeah.

I mean there were reports of beams of light coming down from this alleged craft onto the area where the nuclear weapons were being stored, which to me sounds quite scary.

There was definitely something there, and I think we need to look at the context of the time and the place.

It was nineteen eighty it was the height of the Cold War and this did have you know, nuclear weapons on the base.

And also nearby.

Not many people realize this, but nearby torn From Forest there were two secret military testing stations.

For one of the better word offeredness whether infamous lighthouse was was also home to a secret radar technology department, and then on the other side, not a few miles away, was also a secret research facility called Martelsham Heath where they're experimenting with new weapons basically, So you know my thoughts, So is that a coincidence or has that got something to do with what we're seen that weekend?

I mean, I guess the verdict is still out as far as what the crew actually encountered.

Yeah, I mean some sort Was it a true alien craft?

Was it something reverse engineered?

There'd be any of those.

It could be any of those.

And the accounts from individuals vary quite a lot, which doesn't I don't you know vouch this, you know, their honesty.

I just think the way they interpreted what happened to them was different because maybe whatever it was, you know, affected them differently and the perceptions were altered.

So because could be dealing with some secret, very advanced technology being tested out, or we could be dealing with an alien craft.

The thing is, you know, Jim Peniston, he led to have touch this triangular craft.

I had weird hieroglyphics on, but these claims to have a download of information which he you know, years later you wrote down as binary code, which gave a cryptic message.

I always kind of dismissed that a little bit of thinking, or maybe the electromagnetic effects of whatever it was affected is, you know, this perception of what happened.

But then the weirdest thing happened to me.

After filming all day at Rendelshim, I got I come in the late hours of the morning and I just lay down on my bed and all I could see in front of me were the ones and zeros.

It's binary code.

It's like, WHOA, what is going on?

That was really really weird, And you know, I have to be open to the fact that my mind could be playing tricks on me.

But I've never had that before in my life.

Well, people may be surprised to learn, although I guess we shouldn't really be surprised because paranormal events certainly have a history of repeating themselves, but that this area has a history of other high strangeness events that happened before Rendalship and them also happened since.

Right, absolutely, yeah, I mean it's in Suffolk and England.

The county has got a lot of unexplained phenomena going back centuries.

You've got the will of the Wisps, the lantern men on the fence, which are these ghostly figures that would appear on water, got the Black Shook, which is a cryptid like dog that is supposed to be the devil taking the form of a dog.

And a church nearby in the village of Bunger it's got.

Claw marks on the church door where this dog, this devil scratched the church door before terrifying the congregation.

So there's a big history of paranormal events in this area.

And what led me to make this film was not just a nineteen eighty incident which still remains unexplained, but I spoke an interview to various people who've been there since and had weird paranormal experiences such as seeing orbs of light, rods of light coming out of the sky, and even stones just dropping out of the sky onto the forest floor.

This was an ex police detective John Hanson, who was an executive producer on the film who caught co offered two books which I holt on the Rendissance subject.

Anyway, he told me that he'd been to Renders him in the nineties to basically to do a meditation with his friends what we call see five now psionics, and during this meditation, these stones just fell from the sky like a ports and a stud on the forest floor and they would.

Pick him up and they were warm.

Anyway, he sent these stones off and he showed me the stones and be sent off to a lab and they were tested.

In as light they're just being formed.

That is really really strange.

And then we spoke to people that have been there and basically claims have manifested UFOs or cryptids in the forest, and I've seen photos and videos, so disintrigued me.

Why is this continuing?

Okay, maybe the.

Nineteen eighty incident could be explained away by secret technology being tested out, but it doesn't explain why they're still continuing paranormal phenomena happening every weekend at Renders from forest.

People go there from the UK, all of the UK to go for these paranormal happenings in this forest.

So it's very very strange.

One of the unique things about this case is forty five years is really not so long ago.

I mean, Jim Peniston is still with us, John Burrows is still with us, he'll be actually on next hour, Lieutenant, and Charles Halt is still with us.

That is very very rare that you have this many key players in an all time classic siting who are still alive and are still taking questions.

And I'm not sure if Lieutenant Halt is taking questions anymore, but certainly John Burrows is and Jim Peniston are and they're still talking about this incident to this day.

Absolutely, and you know, we need to get more of their testimonies down on the record.

When we originally had the idea for the film because John Hanson executive producer and had co authored to books for Colonel Charles Holtz, Charles Holt was going to be in the film, but for various reason didn't happen, which is why the film took a different progression.

But just for context, that year nineteen eighty was a kind of record number of sightings in that area.

Wasn't just that weekend, it was the whole year along the east coast of England, so there.

Was something definitely happening.

It's like a UFO wave, which obviously climaux at the rendushrom Forest incident.

But what not many people realize is that just twenty four hours after this incident we had the famous cash Landrum incident in Huffman, Texas in the USA, where a diamond shapecraft was giving off some weird radiation which caused harm to the people who saw it.

So is the reconnection with that.

Possibly you also document new ever evidence of a cover up.

Who would have been involved in this?

Yeah, probably the ministry's defense.

In the UK, we have to go back to one of the first kind of authors researchers, Georgina Bruney, who wrote a book called You Can't Tell the People about Rendellsham and basically she investigated it for years but then had the chance to speak off the record with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and basically she asked the Prime Minister, you know, Renderlson, what happened?

And what the Prime Minister said, rather mysteriously, was it wasn't aliens, But you can't tell the people.

Why can't you tell the people what was it?

So that's really, really, really weird, but it's still a mystery today, something definitely happened, and like you said, we've got very credible witnesses Jim Peniston, John Burrows, Charles Holtz.

Stuff is something definitely happened to them that weekend.

And you know, Colonel Charles Holt was in the dark.

He was deputy commander of the base, but he didn't know what was happening.

He wrote his famous Halt memo to the Ministry of Defense, not knowing that hes later that memo would go public.

But he detailed what happened over the course of that weekend, and you know he wanted to dance as he didn't know what it was.

Yeah, still wants answers.

Probably the rentalshim UFO the British Roswell available on Amazon Prime and Apple TV.

Mark Christopher Lee, the filmmaker with US Tonight more to coom into the Pair of Normal on Jeremy Scott.

Pair of Normal News on George Henry.

After nearly a year, NASA has an official leader.

Billionaire private astronaut Jared Isacman was confirmed by the US Senate this week, ending more then a year of uncertainty at the Space Agency.

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We are in a great competition with a rival that has the will and the means to challenge American exceptionalism across multiple domains, including in the high ground of space.

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Isaacman's path to becoming NASA administrator was an unusual one, after being nominated by President Donald Trump, who later withdrew his nomination, leaving NASA under a series of acting administrators.

Trump renominated him last month.

Isaacman becomes the fifteenth NASA administrator since nineteen fifty eight.

Here more pair of normal news every hour into the pair of minus.

The events began on the evening of the twenty sixth of December.

Serviceman had thought there was a fire in the forest.

Strange lights were seen about three to four hundred meters away from an area that was called the East Gate.

And when they were given clearance in orders to go out to see what this was.

We started the assessment from radar and what we were reporting, felt that we should respond our base.

As we started to enter the forest, there was a flash that encompassed the lawyer.

They discovered it wasn't a fire, but to a very odd looking UFO.

Pair of normal.

It's part pair of normal and part abnormal.

There's nothing ordinary about what's.

On your speakers into the pair of normal.

The Jeremy Sky the Rendalshim Forest URFO incident tonight talking with Mark Christopher Lee, who was re investigated this.

Actually him and a partner went to this site armed with equipment.

Right tell us about that.

Yeah, We decided the best thing to do was to go to the forest itself and do our own investigations see if we could find any unexplained phenomena, and we went there to test there also the close encounts of the fifth kind process, whereby through meditation and using your mind you can manifest UFOs orbs or paranormal phenomena.

So that was the plan, and we took some advice from some experts like Ray Dove and chayl Ann who were in the film about what to do.

So we also took an EMF reader for electromagnetic radiation, a metal detector, and we had various sam recording equipment and we you know, we did find a lot of unexplained phenomena whilst in the forest, such as okay, well, we started the C five plus encounters of the fifth kind process and as soon as we did, we started hearing a weird electronic percussive sound bouncing around the forest.

It was really really strange.

It was like.

An old fashioned retro synthesizer from the seventies when someone was playing it in various parts of the wood.

It was really really strange, and at the same time we were going to go investigate it.

Esther, our assistant director, was also with us.

She had dowsing rods and she never used in dowsing rods before, didn't know how they particularly were supposed to work.

And they were just spinning round in front of it, and go what is happening?

And then the EMF reader was bouncing high up the charts picking up electro magnetic radiation from nowhere.

So something was happening in the forest, and we tried to find the source of the sound.

It kept disappearing, coming again and we saw orbs of light coming through the trees, but we couldn't capture them, we couldn't get close to them.

It was it was a really really weird experience.

And then on the way back after filming for hours, it was pitch black and we were all tired, and on the way back to the car, we heard a really horrific howl like a werewolf.

Bearing in mind we don't have any wolves in the UK.

It's scared the Bejesus out, and it was like what it was that?

And there's like there's supposed to be some sort of cryptid in the forest that researches like Nick Redfern had talked about the rendalshoum shrug monkey, which is a little bit like sasquatch, but who knows.

It was very very strange.

Could this be a testing ground of some sort for some of these technologies?

Quite possibly?

I mean one theory is that's been proposed that when they were testing out this new highly advanced craft or weapon in nineteen eighty, maybe it kind of opened up a portal to other worlds, other dimensions where this strange phenomena, you know, comes in, which is why people still go there every weekend in the UK and experience paranormal phenomena.

There's new evidence that you bring forth in the documentary.

As far as additional witnesses, are these new people who are telling your story or additional information that's not been brought Yeah.

Yeah, it's additional information.

Our executive producer John Hanson, who runs this fabulous UFO archive in England and Stratford upon Avon, it's definitely worth visiting.

He's got like one hundreds and thousands of documents on the renders from UFO and he was one of the original investigators along with Brenda Butler and Peter Parish, so we've got all these original These were kind of locals basically billion UFO investigators that went to the scene documented damage to the tree line, the radiation levels that were higher than background.

But there was also an interesting map that we found that was drawn by Peter Parrish at another local and he claims to have interviewed people at the time that claimed there were six crafts, not just one, that descended upon the forest that weekend and they were all recovered by the US.

And taking time the same time.

They have the same weekend, Well, I don't know the time period, but they were all I mean.

Were the six craft landing at once or six total.

Various times of the weekend, But they were all recovered and taken back to a NATO base in Germany, West Germany.

And how are they recovered.

By helicopter winched out?

That had to create quite a sight or was it done in the cover of darkness?

I'm not sure.

I mean that there's only so much details we've got, but also got other eyewitness accounts at the time from people that were in the Territorial Army who were camped nearby that weekend who claim to have seen six craft and strange lights coming from the forest.

So what we're doing now is interviewing them for a second film, which should be really interesting.

So yeah, we focus on the military because that perhaps adds some more credibility, but as we've also learned, it doesn't necessarily mean that the evidence or that the analysis that can be done with the evidence is any better or any more valuable than say a civilian who might encounter this activity, which is exactly what happened.

I mentioned there was a villager who reported seeing this mushroom like UFO come over their garden.

Others had to have reported seeing these in the days and the hours leading up and following what the military saw out there in the forest.

Absolutely, I think civilian investigators are definitely, you know, they're the ones that are going to get the truth out there.

The military one wanted to cover it up, and it was covered up, like I've suggested.

So thanks to the work of civilian investigators like Brenda Butler, Peach Parrish that we've got this original information that wouldn't have been released otherwise.

And you know, I think the same with UFO disclosure.

Nowadays, the government's not going to give us UFO disclosure.

It will be through the grassroots, through civilian investigators, researchers.

That's how we'll get through UFO disclosure.

I mean, we could hear the audio quality in the tape from Charles Halt wasn't that good.

I mean it was nineteen eighty It was likely an early cassette device I could imagine, which degrades the quality, and the microphone may not have been very good.

Video may not have been an option either back then.

But was there any video of the actual event?

Yeah, there are rumors that there was video and photographs taken.

I think it was General Gordon Williams basically sent this away to Germany.

So I think there's a good possibility that there is video evidence somewhere.

Sent the voto of photos and videos to Germany.

Yeah, I wonder if we ever got them back.

Marchostopher le tonight talking about the red Elsham Forest incident into the Pair of Normal, I'm Jeremy.

Scott into the pair of normal Pairum.

Yeah, I'm wondering if they got the what happened to the videos and the pictures from the Rendelsham Forest incident which were sent over to Germany.

Sometimes we don't always hear the end of this.

It's like there's these strings that don't necessarily lead anywhere, And that's what happens with these stories over time.

But was there some sort of analysis done with this or what happened with them?

I don't know.

That's as much information as I can get except the.

Story are there, yeah, which is coming with some of these.

Absolutely.

And you know, we also have to be aware that because of time and stories changing, that things are added on and things like that.

So it's difficult to get to the actual truth of what happened in nineteen eighty.

But you know, my opinion, something definitely did.

There was physical evidence, the marks on the ground, the higher than level background radiation, the damage to the trees which showed that something came in and landed or crashed, whatever you want to say.

There was dictaphone recording which still exists, which is very strange.

And some of the things that he says about multen Glass coming out of this high blinking was like, that's not a conventional after or a lighthouse for instance, something.

And you know, I also have to remember the ill effects that it had on you know, John Burrows and Jim Peniston, So they suffered ill health because of what they experienced in that incident.

So something definitely happened, that's all we can say.

Really well, and others could have as well.

If something was recovering and it was taken to a facility, there might have been others who were affected.

Wondering if Germany is kind of like the UK's Area fifty one, because you know, the rumor out here is when there's something that crashes out in New Mexico or in the Midwest, it's taken to Area fifty one and then goes somewhere else.

Yeah, there's some sort of a housing base in Germany.

Yeah, but I think it would be controlled by the US in terms of, you know, the NATO senior partner, So maybe it was a NATO Area fifty one.

So as far as the misinterpretations of people saying this wasn't a UFO, it was just the lighthouse or some other natural light, how does that stack up to the evidence.

I mean, the Air Force wasn't confusing the lighthouse, which was seemingly always in operation for UFOs at other times of the year, right.

Yeah, I don't think the lighthouse would have been bright enough to have such an impact.

To look at Colonel Holt's description of you know this kind of the morton glass coming out out of this all, and then you know the way it zipped off and split into numerous craft or whatever they were.

That doesn't fit the account.

And also, you know this craft shone beams of light down on the weapon storage area.

That's not a lighthouse.

And also there's also physical kind of interruptions of radios and electrical devices such as the big outdoor lights, the light tools.

They were malfunctioning.

So something with an electromagnetic presence was there, it wasn't the lighthouse.

I mean someone suggested that maybe it was a prank by the SAS, but I don't think so.

I don't know how that would work.

If it is, it is probably the greatest prank of all time.

I mean is also asking to get shot because if you're thinking that it could be a threat, I mean, they could have used deadly force if if they felt threatened.

Yeah, and you know it was nuclear weapons on the base as well.

It's a bit dangerous really to start messing, you know, on a base of nuclear weapons, which you know could trigger World War three.

It's a bit prank too far in my opinion.

You mentioned some of the electronical interference.

Did you experience that with some of your devices out in the area.

We did, Yeah, we did.

I mean there was mainly the electromf device, I mean because we had a base reading which was nothing basically, but every now and again it would just go way into the red for no reason.

I mean there's no nothing electric around here.

We met sure, we didn't have any electrical honors.

So it was really really yeah, really really weird.

And we had the other thing as well, which happened esther, our system director had bought a new phone that day to take some pictures on and she got it out later on it was fully charged and the battery just drained like that and it wouldn't work at all and she.

Had to take it back.

It was it was just, you know, that was really weird.

We couldn't explain that.

Did you try to summon this phenomenon into existence while you were there?

We did?

Yeah, that was our intention.

And I mean we used the word invite someone.

Sounds a bit kind of a bit dramatic, but we you know, invited whatever presence is out there.

I mean, I'm a little bit skeptical on the whole close accounts of the fifth kind, but I think that the mind does play into this phenomena and to the paranormal as well.

And you know, I think that, like I said before, paranormal and ufo is are linked and we're dealing with the same phenomena, and I do think the mind does play a part in it.

So we did invite the presence in.

And another weird thing that happened.

We had all the electronic sounds in the woods bouncing around, and the orbs of light which we couldn't find or the source of.

But the following day in the morning.

I was home in Hertfordshire, you know, two hour drive away, and sitting in the garden with my wife and she said, look at that there above the house, and there was an orb above the house.

It's like, what is that?

Luckily I got it on film as well, but it was like, did something follow us home?

Did we manifest something and it followed me home?

Possibly?

It's weird.

Yeah, what other strange things did you experience while you were out there with guy?

Well, we had a great sense of disorientation, especially when we started hearing the electronic sounds.

We could feel, you know, a skin kind of crawling a little bit, and it was it was like like there was a ghostly presence, which sounds a bit kind of dramatic, but it was very, very spooky.

And the other strange, unexplained thing that happened to us that we had this weird medical smell that we smell in a certain area.

It was like ether or something like that.

It was really really weird and there's nothing around there for this to emanate from.

But you know, that was maybe symptomatic of a paranormal presence, you know, I don't know, but we did experience it.

You know, obviously we couldn't get that onto camera look at the spell, but there you go.

So based on the evidence that you've seen in your own personal investigation, you would believe that this is a genuine classic UFO sighting.

And even though there may have been some detractors and may have been some witnesses who were found to have embellished some statements that that, you can't take any of that away from the credibility that this sighting has.

No, you've got three very credible witnesses.

You've got Colonel Charles Holt, You've got Jim Peniston and John Burrows.

You can't take away from their testimonies.

Okay, they're slightly different from each other, but they're all very credible people that had some experience, some very very strange experience that weekend in that forest.

Something definitely happened, and you know it's still happening now.

So you know, we've been calling it the UK's Roswell, but maybe we should be calling the UK skin walker because I believe, you know, this is an epicenter of high strangeness and you know it's not an exaggeration.

People in the UK are going there every weekend to experience paranormal phenomena.

You know, it's like, you know, most people go to a ghost hunt in an old haunted house or a castle or something, but people are going to render from forest to witness this phenomena.

And one of your upcoming films is going to focus more on that aspect.

Well, yeah, possibly, Yeah, it's going to what's your next film about Mark?

Well, actually the next film about Sir Francis Bacon and the Holy Grail, going off on a tangent a little bit, but going into the ross seclusions, secret societies and ancient knowledge that's been passed down through thousands of years to secret societies.

So that's that's the next project I'm working on the money.

You've got others looking at the rural families, history of UFOs, religion and other subjects.

Yeah.

We did a film called God Versus Aliens which is out on tub in America, which is about the religious impact that first contact or disclosure would have on the world.

So that was good fun to make.

And then we had The King of the UFOs where we looked at the British royal families interest in UFOs and the paranormal and they were massively interested in rendels from Forest.

John Hanson, our executive producer who wrote these books, Charles Holt, sent them to Prince Philip and Queen Elizabeth and they wrote back thanking them for the books and they will add them to their UFO collection.

So I was like, whoa again.

It's available on Amazon Prime and also on Apple TV, and you'll find other streaming platforms as well.

The website Mark.

Yeah, it's ww dot nub and ubfilm dot co dot UK.

All right, fantastic, you can find a whole list there.

Best to you, Mark, always good to talk with you.

Thanks, jere May take care.

Fantastic.

From the cold dark depths of a secret dungeon somewhere deep in the remote Pacific Northwest, We'll be back.

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There's a pair of little universe.

Sebaries.

Well, we perceived.

Reality.

It's all.

Into the padle.

Into the parent, into the.

Parent, bordering the lines between reality and the unknown.

You were writing into the pair of normal.

It is.

It is rare these days that we actually hear from somebody who is involved in one of the all time classic UFO cases, and we get that opportunity tonight.

It's the second time that we've had John Burrows here, and if you know your UFAUX history, you know the named John Burrows.

And then it goes right there with the Rendelsham Forest case, which is now forty five years old, right after Christmas in nineteen eighty.

Of course, a cold night perhaps it's starting to it's just nasty out there where we are.

Thankfully we don't have any snow and ice.

It's just wayn and rain and wind.

But that's enough.

But to hear it was where this took place, and he was there front and center, so to speak.

And we welcome back retired Airman first Class John Burrows of the eighty first Security Police Squadron, who was a present for these events.

As we've talked about tonight, it is an honor to have you back.

Thanks for having me on.

So I mean this history, this anniversary that comes up every time around this year, I'm certainly it is one that is significant for you.

What are your thoughts on it in general?

Every time this year when the sighting kind of comes back to the forefront, Well, you know you.

Obviously you know the December is kind of that month where you kind of go back and think about what happened, you know, each year, the one was it the twentieth or thirtieth, I can't remember.

We actually got to go over there for it.

We went over there, filmed over there, did a bunch of stuff, so that was pretty cool.

But he just takes you back into that mindset of what happened, you know, And like I said, it's hard to believe it's been forty five years.

And as I was saying earlier, it's also rare that we have so many living witnesses for such a classic case.

I mean, look at the others and many of them are no longer with us, and here you are living proof and you've been through a lot.

I mean you basically at one point it was acknowledged by our government that you suffered, your health suffered as a result of the content, right right.

My attorney that was working with me on the overall case, not the VA part of it, Patris going when we got the settlement from the VA, rode out press release and said the military, by the factos admitted your aps are real.

And the reason why he said that was simply because the fact that the VA does not give you disability or treat you for something that doesn't happen in the military.

So in other words, you can't get vacare if you were just in the VA care.

But my case was based off the fact that I was injured during in the line of duty during the event, and another individual was with me got the same type of settlement.

So two of us that were out there on those and during that three night period are being taken care of through the VA based off the interest we received during the event.

And Colonel Hall just did an interview Russ Colkart a couple of months ago, a month ago now, and he even admitted then that what happened, we got injured during that event.

So he's even come forward now and confirm that that's that the injuries that we did get injured grade event.

And these events to transpired December twenty sixth, twenty seventh, twenty eighth of the year nineteen eighty.

Yeah, it started on at three hundred and twenty sixth.

Then they had stuff happened in the night of the twenty sixth and in the morning of the twenty seventh, and then the night Colonel Hall was out there was the night of the twenty seventh.

In the morning of the twenty eighth, so that would have been on the third night of this and that's when that famous recording took place.

Right, The recording and the memo was based off the all three nights, but he was he was involved in night three for sure.

So which night were you involved in?

Night one and three?

Okay?

And this was something that was out of the ordinary that you were responding to or was it a typical call?

I'm guessing it was.

No, No, it wasn't even a call.

I mean we were It was Christmas night, early in the morning of Boxing of twenty six, so we came on duty at Christmas night at eleven hundred, so we were just killing time to get off shift.

It was about three in the morning and the guy I was riding with, my supervisor, saw strange lights in the sky coming down into the forest.

So we reported it and they decided that we needed to go out and investigate because radars showed something over the area going down into the forest area, so they thought maybe something crashed or went down into the area, So they sent a three man team, myself and security Soup and his writer went on to the forest to investigate.

And this was a part of your typical duties.

Is what a security police officer?

Well, I was law enforcement, so no security would have been.

It was a security thing more because it was something that was happening, you know, on the perimeter of the base.

Law enforcement was like a regular cop.

We took care of the law enforcement duties, but we were back ups for security.

So since we only had the security soup and his rider, two law enforcement patrols over there that one of I went with them for a three man response.

And this was off base that you were responding.

Yeah, we went off base.

Yes, we went off base to investigate what went down.

So did you have to get any special clearance.

To do that?

That was all done through CSC, the command post, So I'm not sure exactly what the what you know, how they came to the conclusion because I wasn't involved in the phone calls or anything, but they cleared us to leave, and it was based off of radar contact that saw something over that area and that went down into the forest.

So you had permission from your superior to a good Yeah.

We were sent off.

We were sent off based by the shift commander.

Yes, and so this object was found on seen on radar, and then when you actually physically get to the area, what do you see.

Well, the first night, it's interesting because there were three of us, and all three of us remember it differently.

So I remember getting close to it, hitting the ground, then it kind of lit the area up, that dimmed and then lit back up and went went up and went back towards the coast.

The airman that was his first night remembers this getting close to something.

Now he's claimed in an interview did with James Fox that I actually was still armed.

I drew my weapon in a zaptis and knocked us out.

And then the Peniston who was the security soup has gone into the detail of we got up close to it, walked around it, took pictures, wrote in his notebook, wrote saw glyfts, touched it, got a buynary download.

So there's like I said, three different people remember.

Three, But nobody actually fired upon this.

No, no one fired.

He just remembered.

He just told Fox.

We never talked about that.

He just told Fox, I had my weapon, I drew it and then his zaptas is what he said in an interview.

I know what I saw interesting and so, yeah, I mean seemingly if something had zapped you, you may have had the physical injuries.

Uh, were you in Were you examined medically after these events?

Not?

Not right afterwards.

No, it was a few months later that they discovered the heart murmur, which sent me to right.

Pat they did a bunch of testing, and then later on down the road is when I start having really health issues years later, which led to the government refusing to release my medical records and classifying my personnel and medical records.

So was this an actual craft?

Patterson remembers it as a craft Coban.

Second, I remembered his lights blinding light, Yeah, it was.

It was pretty blinding, the white light part of it when we got close to it.

Yeah, all right, And so did anybody report retina or eye injuries as well?

I had?

I have eye injuries too.

I have there's damage to my right eyewall and I this tendsa has that too.

Yes, my issues present four.

The Rendalship nineteen eighty UFO incident is John Burrows Tonight honored to talk with him somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.

Our conversation will continue in just a couple of moments somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.

I'm Jeremy Scott into the pair of normal, into.

The pair of normal, pair of normal.

Just step to bid that, say Si nineteen eighty Strange light said, the sky, blood smears the.

Bond tree, the woods lit up like fires, electricity.

Felt loose.

Johnny Covin Jerry McCoy with their original Rendalsham talking with John Burroughs, former US Air Force officer who was a present nights one and ninete Night three of the Rendalsham Forest UFO incident, which was incidentse So this blinding light, what happened next?

Well, the first night when that happened, Like I said, I remember, it was bright when we came upon it.

We hit the ground, it dimmed briefly, then it got bright again and went up into the sky and went back.

Kbansek said, we got close to it.

He claims it.

I don't remember.

I'm almost one hundred percent sure.

Look, I weapon behind because we were off base and we weren't allowed to be armed our base.

But he somehow remembers that I was armed with my thirty eight.

So he climbs I drew it and it hit us something knocked us out, and Peniston was the one.

The city got up, walked around it, touched it, had a binary download and all that stuff.

So two of us just remember getting close to it, and then after the fact we both remember all three of us chased it farther out towards the coast before we lost it.

So you actually did go in pursuit of it, yeah, briefly, yeah, but it then eventually just went away.

It was gone.

It just disappeared in the sky.

So it was gone.

And the interesting thing about it was what we remember, at least what I remember was went quite a distance to get to the coast.

So I went back in eighteen and based off where we started at the gate, we drove as far as we could into the forest from the point we dismounted to get all the way out to where we got where I remembered, and back.

There's no way the time we could have done it in that timeframe, because it started after three and it was all over before five.

So we just went back and walked through it all and looked at it all, and there's no way we could have physically done all that in that too.

Hour period, so and our watches were forty five minutes slow when we got back.

So sounds like some classic missing time Yep, it probably was.

We probably went into a time dilation bubble soon.

That's something that I've worked on for a year just looking at that area, which I don't know if you're aware of it.

That area back there where we went to was the British area fifty one.

It was awful of research of fa yeah, all kinds stuff they worked That was called Orford Nest they worked on right out of they were the first country to.

Develop right now was a testing ground of sorts.

Yes, it was a huge testing ground, yeah, of all kinds of technology.

They were working at Mars from heath on SDI at that time.

Yeah.

So well we talked about that in the last hour, so interesting that we should hint on it again so you finish your shift yep, and discussed do you have to put it into a long entry or anything like that.

But what ended up happening was not knowing what went on with at the the at the CC or at the desk, because the law enforcement desk was on bout Waters and that's what I was assigned to CSC was where we went back to turn in.

We met to shift commander he uh we Penison did all the talking, basically told them what happened.

He decided we should go back out there and look around.

There was a group of people out there.

We found the indentations in the ground and damage to the trees in the area where we were, so the British Police were there.

So basically from that point we were on break for three days.

So we went on break Friday morning.

We were off till Monday, so I went home, I leved our base and I ended up going back up to the base early Saturday morning and I got up on the desk before midnight shift got off that you know, we were on mids, went on break.

The news shift took over on mids and I talked to the death sergeant and they had an incident happened one night too where they saw strange lights.

Shift commander went over there from Bentwaters to Woodbridge and she had some kind of encounter and a light went through a vehicles shut it down and she ended up having a lot of problems with it.

I guess she got relieved to duty and sent off the base.

So that was night too, so I decided, after hearing about that, two of my guys that I worked with that worked on flight with we went back out there for night three.

And when we went out there, Halt's team was already out there, and we ended up meeting up with him, and eventually Halt let the stins and I go forward and we got close to something again.

And that was the night that when I got closer, Adrian saw it come over me, and I disappeared, and he got knocked to the ground and it kind of went partially over him, but I completely went into it and disappeared.

And reaccured taken somewhere.

Well, I disappeared inside the light form that was areas, all.

Right, So you didn't disappear inside the craft, but in the light within the light, it was lights.

That we've never Penniston was the only one that ever described it as a craft that I'm aware of.

Okay, So was this object like actually present at that level or was it like high higher above the trees or being projected down onto you?

Do you have a Well, if you listen to Haltz tape, because this all happened before I met with him, you can listen to his tape, and they saw stuff in the skies.

There was stuff going on with that.

There are beams of light coming down.

At one point on his tape, you'll hear he had a beam of light come down to his feet from whatever was up in the sky.

When I went forward and met with him and went forward with Adrian, there was like the lights were up above the tree line, and we started going toward it, and it came down into the field where we were, and that's when we got close to it, and that's when I disappeared into it, and Adrian had he said it touched like his hands were on the ground and it came over the top of his hands and arms.

But I went completely in and disappeared.

So were there craters any sign of impact.

There were three indentations in the ground for night one, I said.

When we went back out there that morning afterwards, they found three indentations or a triangular you could triangulate them.

And there was damage to the trees.

That was on night one.

As far as the other two nights, I've never heard of any kind of evidence that supported what we.

Saw on Do you have a thoughts theories about what it is you saw?

Yeah, Well, There's two things that stand out about this because I've done a lot of work on with some engineers, different scientists.

There was a study going on and the guy wrote the book, his name Andrew Pike, and he was working on a known phenomenon.

It's there the British government.

They know there's a phenomenon in rendals for us, it's a plasma type phenomenon.

It's what a UAP is for sure, and they were studying it and then our event happened.

So it's pretty good evidence that we were working on technology there, developing technology, and it worked with SDI drones, lasers, satellites, radars and all that other stuff.

That there was an interaction between all the systems they were working on, the weapons systems they were working on, and the phenomenon itself.

And most likely there was a time dolation bubble created or the phenomenon is the time is a time doalation time bubble, and that's exactly what Adrian and I encountered, most likely what we encountered on night one two.

So something was being tested, as you've described, and you were witnessed to this.

Yeah, well we probably were involved with what they were working on and a real phenomenon, which is if you go into Project Condine, it identifies it as a UAP, which is something that our own people have changed from UFOs to UAPs.

When the only went public had said we now have a new termined, you know name for it called you APS.

That's when UAP's took off, and then the the you know, the New York Times paper article and all that.

So transition from UFO to UAPs.

Yeah, I sure did portical with John Burrows, Tonight president for the Rendellshim Forest incidents in nineteen eighty.

I'm Jeremy Scott into the pair of.

Normal, You're a normal News.

I'm George Henry.

Contact is still lost with NASA's MAVEN spacecraft on Mars.

So far, efforts to re establish communications have not been successful since it stopped responding in early December.

Analysis indicates the spacecraft was rotating in an unexpected way as it emerged from behind Mars, and the signal's frequency suggests its orbital path may have changed.

Teams continue to study the data to determine what may have caused the loss of contact.

MAVEN, short for Mars Atmosphere and volatile Evolution, is one of four orbiters that relay communications for the Perseverance and Curiosity rovers.

It launched in twenty thirteen and arrived at the Red Planet the following year.

Here pair of normal news every hour on into the pair of normals.

Of like fives vitreousity.

News.

We don't know actually.

Sat quiet, aw.

Grow grow stop we lost it, says shot.

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Show.

You're traveling at the speed of light into the care of normal.

All right.

We're talking with John Burrows, who was present for two of the three nights of the Rendlesham Forest incident in late December, right after Christmas, actually after they had returned to duty after Christmas early morning hours the next day, and then that happened the next night and the following night.

And I'm wondering if this was ever discussed.

I mean, you mentioned you you had different stories.

Did you learn that you all had different stories through media or was there a point in time when you know you had actually discussed it with each other.

We didn't Seattle, Dase, Penicila dat base.

Uh.

We drove back and forth together from to work.

He was new and he got moved off a flight really fast and put in the back office.

So I didn't.

I wasn't around him more than a week or so more after the event, Command sect of dun Base, so we never really discussed it afterwards.

The interesting thing about it was we got came back on Monday and we got told the right statements.

There's a whole different angle with some people remember being called in to be interrogated and all the other stuff.

I don't remember every interrogated.

I remember writing the statement that's publicly available, and it was just on night one, given it to Halt and we had to go in front of Halt, then the base command and Wink commander, and that was it for me.

But Peniston remembers being interrogated and all that other stuff, so does Mestenza and then Commansek.

I've really never talked to him.

He was brand new on flight, he was security and a few years later or years later, I tried to get him to get into the Encounters book that we did, and he wasn't interested because after he did the interview with James Fox, he claims the RS came knocking and it scared him, so he didn't want anything more to do with any of it.

So I never really did get to go in detail with what he remembered other than what little he said in the interview he did with James Fox.

So you think maybe there's a reason here that each one of you remembers it differently or tell it differently.

I mean, we've heard of the UFO amnesia effect, you know, and things like that, and.

Well, I'm going to go into it in the book I'm going to release sometime late spring early summer, and it's called a Project Rentals from Crossing the Threshold.

There's a ton of evidence, documents, foy as I've done that support the fact that when you interact with this phenomenon and affects you in different ways, what you remember, how you remember it for each individual.

Never mind the fact that if you get time dalation involved, So let's say one of us goes into time dilation bubble, we're going to be somewhere different.

We're no longer in the same time that you are.

If you're outside the bubble, it's different.

Everything slows down or speeds up.

In my case, I'm pretty sure it slowed down, because that was always the effect I had when the Night one and three.

Everything seems slower the closer we got to it.

So so now that you've had a while to think about this, was there like some sort of secretive race to reverse engineer to master some of this technology that was taking place here.

Perhaps, well, if you go if you look at what's going on right now, if you go back to that timeframe, I don't know if yeah, there's a race, because you could just go back and look.

The Russians were looking at exict technology before we even started.

After World War Two, their scientific group that came from Germany, they went more into the exotic field.

We went more into the bullets, rockets and everything else, and then they realized that we were behind in that area.

That's when Project Stargate got started.

Different things took place of around Stargate and stuff like that because the Russians were ahead of that.

There's a guy by the name of a Lieutenant Colonel Bearden that you can look at find books that he wrote about this.

We were behind the Russians in this area.

So they were really looking at this type of technology, including SDI.

But if you just go back to this latest movie that just came out, the people that were involved in these projects says the race to this technology is go ongoing and whoever masters it will control the next one hundred years.

So I think Jay Stratton said that in that movie.

So it's like the next Manhattan Project, and it probably did start back and was being worked on right outside the back gate of Mountwater.

Someone bridge not only would control things on Earth, but also in space perhaps as well.

Well, Yeah, that's that's the whole thing, because if you understand time dilation, you could, like darp is admitted they're working on a small device that can go on a backpack of a soldier and what happens is you disappear, You're no longer you're here for a minute, you go somewhere else.

It's like cloaking.

So if you can activate that system around the soldier, tank, an aircraft, as ship, So say like for example, you were going to shoot at somebody or the tank or whatever.

As it cloaks, it's no longer where it's been identified, and the weapon system would just go right where it was, but it wouldn't be there anymore.

It's gone.

And that's the technology they're working on, and it is based off of UAP technology.

Really we really have something like that.

Yes, there's documents to support it.

DARPA is working on all this stuff, how put off the business stuff that they got.

He was working on a project with tanks being able to cloak the tank.

The problem they've had is the energy to have the energy feel to be able to activate the bubble, and then the computing to keep up, because think about this, you're disappearing, so you're going into a different dimension or slowing down or speeding up in time.

But when you come back out of it, you've got to end up somewhere else.

The computing systems got a compute to keep put you back in a safe zone where when you reappear.

It's kind of like the Philadelphia experiment, right, it really is.

And one of the key pieces of equipment that they use in this is called a Marx generator.

John Burrows with US tonight his books By the Way RENTLSROM Signals from the Threshold, The Hidden Race for UAP Technology and Weaponization of an Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon The Rentals from Forest UAP Incident forty years later.

Those would be his latest and he's got another one coming out, and there's some older ones as well that you can check out.

From the cold dark Depths of a Secret Dungeon somewhere deep in the remote Pacific Northwest.

Will wind down our time tonight with John Burrows somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.

I'm Jeremy Scott into the pair abnormal.

We'll be right back.

Into the pair of normal, pair.

Of John Burrows tonight from the Rendelstrom Forest incident on into the pair of normal.

Forty five years ago this happened, and that we've been talking with him about what exactly he witnessed, what others witnessed that night, and what he's come to believe actually has taken place.

There's nuclear weapons facilities within the vicinity.

Does that play a role here?

I don't think so.

No, I don't think it had anything to do with it.

I think it had to do with Mars from heath ari At Bouzi and the technology they were working on there, and coober Miss have been there but they shut it down, but they didn't completely shut it down.

They kept some of it and utilized it there.

So I don't think it had anything to do with the allegend new grow upons.

It may or may not have been there.

Interesting.

What are your thoughts on disclosure?

I know you were hinting at some of the proceedings in including that recent movie Age of Disclosure.

So, I mean, it's been forty five years since your event, and I'm I've been looking into this stuff for twenty years and waiting for it to happen.

I don't believe it will happen in my lifetime.

Do you think disclosure official capital d lesure is going to take place in your lifetime?

Well, here's the thing.

We've got confirmation already.

Big Ol' talked about that a few years ago with NAP where we're not talking about it, they're doing doing hearings.

There's clearly something out there that it's not being explained by our government.

I was asked to go up and meet the Arrow Committee, meet the Gang of A testify in front of Congress, and I refused because everything they've done so far is just hearsay.

I understand you.

A witness is coming forward and saying they saw this, they did this, but there's no heart evidence.

It's been presented.

The press is interested, but there's no smoking gun or document.

The guy that was the closest was the last hearing, I forget his name, where he came on and they were talking to him.

He was working in these projects, and he said, first of all, I can't talk to you about any of this unless we go on to skiff.

Said, but even if we go into the skiff, none of you will have the clearance to be clear to hear what I know.

So this stuff is so locked down in SAP programs for a reason.

As far as the government and the military is concerned.

It's all technology that they're utilizing or working on.

They don't want the Chinese and our Russians to know what we have or don't have and what we can do.

So they're clearly not going to disclose to the public what they have or don't have.

So if they admit to anything or any documents that come out, it's going to basically it'll start, you know, it'll open Pandora's box.

So they've gone about as far as I think they're going to.

Now, if something that's out there that they're aware of that may be going to interact with this going forward, that may force the issue.

And I clearly think Steven Spielberg's moving next year is really going to juice this all up.

I don't know, you know how much farther it's going to go, but This is the kind of stuff that the President doesn't totally know what's going on about, or do most members of Congress.

So it's compartmentalized.

It's SSAP programs.

So yeah, the odds of disclosure are are, you know, way out there.

If ever, in my.

Opinion, it comes down to a need to know, and even presidents and members of Congress don't have that need to know right well, they.

Don't have the clearance.

I mean, that's a lot of it.

I mean you could just go down the list of different things that the DoD or Department Award does.

President wants something done and they just change the mission statement or whatever, and so they're technically followed as orders, but they're they're still there, like they're still in Iraq, they're still in Syria.

He wanted them out, President Trump did the first term, and they just changed the statement from being a combat unit to a training unit.

There's all kinds of things that go on that our Congress isn't aware of.

In fact, Mace said, they vote on these SSAP programs.

They're just given a number.

It's up or down.

They want a five billion for this program.

They don't even know what the program is.

They just agree to give them five billion within the defense contract, so they don't have access to all the good stuff.

So there's no oversight and we're not going to get disclosure.

It's just not going to happen.

Yeah, it sounds like not in your lifetime, not in my lifetime, and unless there's.

Something lifetime, unless whatever we're dealing with, which is real, I believe.

I don't think it's nuts in both UFOs like Hard and Craft necessarily or a biological beings, but there is a life form that we're dealing with, and if it decided it wanted us to know, then I don't think they could stop it.

So okay, mentioned the word life form.

So where do you stand on this aliens, non human intelligence, that sort of thing.

Anyhry non human intelligence.

It's it's a life form.

It's in condine, they minutes.

Real UAPs are real.

The British government moved it in the early two thousands.

Of you, we moved it forward right before right after twenty seventeen.

I can't remember if UAPs were discussed before the New York Times article or after, but they moved forward into that in the early two thousands, and so that is a life form a UAP is real.

It's a life form.

It's just not a biological being as as it's been presented in all these UFO shows and everything else.

That's hard part with nuts and bold tephology.

So this particular case rentalship, you know, obviously happened over in the UK, but it was these are US air bases and so it would have been investigated by.

Actually, see I'll clear the fact that they were not US air bases, they were NATO bases.

Yes, the US was part of NATO.

We leased, the NATO leased the basis from from the British and the NATO charter was completely different than what the British did.

So, like I'll give you example, people claim that there couldn't be nuclear weapons there.

Actually if you go to the NATO charter, all these NATO bases had nuclear weapons on them.

Off the NATO treaty.

Who would have been in charge of investigating this sighting, They would.

Have come from Langley, they would have come in.

There was a team that came in afterwards, it's been verified there was a team of NSA was involved, CIA was involved, d i A was involved.

Then then the Air Force OSI and the Navy was.

Involved, but the British government as well, m I six, m m I five were involved.

Yes, interesting and so much like we had blue Book.

You mentioned Condine, which is not to be confused with the Condn remort, but Condyne.

That was the British government's hack.

They they did it.

They had an engineer that may have been involved in the original Rendols from incident in the fifties, if I remember right, they had an encounter over rendals from an aircraft chase something.

I'm pretty sure the guy that ended up leaving the RAF became an engineer, was working for Marconi right outside the back of when it happened.

He wrote the report, Condom Report that covered everything involving what UAPs are and what the government knew.

A lot of it was blacked out, but in that report he said, we were that rentolsrom for US individuals were exposed to UAP radiation.

So that was part of what was used to get my settlement with the United States.

Government right, and you deserve every penny of it.

By the way, I can tell you that much.

Anybody that gets injured in the line of.

Oh we lost to John Burrows, he was talking about getting injured in the line of duty.

They must not one of wanted to hear him talk about that anymore.

I don't even know if we get him back in the time we have left.

I was going to ask him if he had experienced other events out there.

Can we get him back?

I don't think we're no.

I don't think we're going to be able to in the time that we have.

But maybe for another program, maybe on the fiftieth anniversary, we can have John Burrows back and ask him if there were other events that happened out there.

Based on what we've heard tonight, it does appear there were additional events out there, paranormal and otherwise, not all of them involving UFOs and he remembers lights, but others.

Remember craft a perspective is important here, and I think we should not discount as well the capabilities of whatever it is that we're dealing with that they would have or not have, the ability in this case to to influence thought, which means you could remember something differently than others because your memories are transplanted.

And that's not too far fetched, although it may sound far fetched if you're new to this topic.

Individuals have reported these download experiences throughout the years where things happened to them that they didn't remember or were not a witness to, and yet there they are friends.

This is it for the year.

It pains me not to be on the air as many nights as were off the air, But these next two weeks are special for me and my family, and I'm sure you can respect that We're going to step away, regroup, come back in twenty twenty six stronger than ever.

Your support this year has really meant so much to us.

Myself and my wife and are two kiddies from the cold, dark taps of a secret dungeon somewhere deep in the remote Pacific Northwest.

In twenty twenty six, We'll talk to you good night, and God bless