Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books.

Hi.

I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.

This week, we're taking a little trip to the magical land of Oz and we're talking with the person task with reinterpreting a century's worth of storytelling.

But don't worry, guys, I think he's got this.

I used to think that stories are escaped, and I think there's an element of that, but I actually think the job of a story is to take you out of your life, but land you back at home.

John mchwo is the mastermind behind some of our favorite film extravaganzas In the Heights, Crazy Rich Agents, Wicked Part One, and now Wicked for Good.

And while John is obviously an incredible film director, he's also a writer, a dancer, a dad, an or a reader.

You'll get what I mean in a little bit, I promise.

I really love the way John talked about all the ways we can tell a story on and off the page.

So if you're in the mood for a conversation that goes behind the creative process and sprinkles a little, you know what, A lot of magic throughout maybe defies gravity.

You are so in the right place.

Let's turn the page with John m Chu.

John Cheu, Welcome to the club.

Thank you very much.

It's great to be here.

We're so excited to have you in the club.

Officially, I have to start with probably the most serious question of our hour, which is if you were to go to the Wizard, what would you ask him?

I would ask him, would you please get out of here?

My friends?

How far is too far for you?

Yeah, mister Wizard.

Absolutely, he really is the enemy of the franchise.

He is the enemy.

But at the same time, Jeff Goblum's fascinating character.

I don't know if you've ever really interacted with him, but he's so funny.

He's such a huge student of literature, of art, of movies, and so his philosophy on the Wizard is like, and you know, maybe he's a storyteller that's just gone too far, someone who's looking at entertainment and yes, they want a villain, yes they want action and violence, and then what point do you have a responsibility to the world that you're creating through your stories?

And so I love that that this Wizard is a little bit more complicated than usual.

He's not a bumbling idiot.

Maybe he's not meaning to do it.

Who is meaning to do any of these bad things?

But maybe it's someone who gets carried away.

At some point, we have to wake up and know that our stories affect the world that we live in.

He also left me with the question, does he truly believe he's doing the right thing?

Yeah?

Exactly.

I think that's you know, the I don't know if people have seen the movie yet or not, but at this point, you know, at the end, he gets sort of trapped by the machine itself and eaten alive in it.

So yeah, sort of metaphorically, But it's always something that I think about as a storyteller, and especially now with kids.

What are the stories that I was told as a kid that made me believe in the possibilities of America, of individuals, of community, And then you know, now as an adult, how hard was it?

Actually?

Are those stories actually true?

Should we be believing in fairy tales or is that just not good enough anymore?

And what are the fairy tales that we want to pass on to our children, and do they we want them to believe in the possibilities of our of our childhood stories.

Do you, John Chu, believe in fairy tales?

I believe in big dreams because I am the recipient of generosity by people and goodness of people from people who used to come into the Chinese restaurants that my parents owned and would give me camera equipment, monitors, computers, software.

I grew up in the Silicon Valley, so they would give it to me because I was making videos and I'm a product of that.

And I'm the son of immigrants this place of America with the great hope of an American dream, going into the most America business in the world, doing the most American genre of movie, the movie musical that everyone says is dead.

And I'm living the dream.

I have five kids and they're beautiful, and I got to do achieve it all.

And no matter how hard it was, no matter how many times I felt like I could be a victim, that that's not anything that could hold me back.

That the dream does exist.

If I can survive and I can flourish, then one hundred percent that I'm proof that the dream is still alive and that fairy tales can exist.

Maybe the way in which we tell these stories can shift.

Maybe I need to give my kids a little bit of equip them with a couple more tools in their stories so that they can know that it's not gingerbread houses and yellow brick roads, but certainly the possibilities of optimism and innovation and dreams I think are one hundred percent real.

And I think you do that in your work, regardless of the medium, because you've worked in film and television, you're a writer yourself.

I do think you bring these complex stories to life.

And I heard that you first saw Wicked the musical when it was still in workshop before it made it onto Broadway.

Yeah, and you thought someone will make this a great movie someday.

Did you also think I have to read this book.

No, at that point, I'm not sure I knew that it was a book.

I just knew that it was Stephen schwartz new musical, and so I think at that point it was I was enamored by this sort of deconstruction of the American fairy tale.

And I was going through college at that moment, so friends that I had grown up with were leaving my life, and I didn't know how to categorize that or where to put that in my brain, and there's not a lot of movies or stories about friendships because it's not as romantic as romance, you know, those whole industry is about romance and love and you get married is the end goal and they live happily ever after.

But friendships, man oh man, No, it is consistency.

It is not romantic.

It is show up for them, and they show up for you, and it's over years and maybe some float away, but the good ones stick around, and maybe the good ones stick around and there is a time where that era ends as well.

And how to say that that actually is still valuable.

So yeah, I just I love that we get to explore that in these kind of stories.

So, I mean, friendship is at the center of wicket.

I can imagine that you dissected every part of friendship as you went through this.

Did you revisit the book at all as part of your creative process?

Not really, And that's complicated because there are legal rights to the book that this musical does not have.

There are you know, the way we interpret the movie, and this is sort of getting in the weeds, but we are based off of the musical, which is based off of the book.

So I had to be very cognizant, but also aware that we can use the L.

Frank Baum as source material and the Denslow drawings as social material, and I can use Wicked, the musical and the screenplay of that as stuff.

So I couldn't, even though I love Gregory Maguire's book, it wasn't about like digging out more from there.

It was digging out the truth and the material of the musical itself.

I'm so glad that you mentioned the complication because for Good is the film adaptation of the second act of the musical Wicked, which is based on the book Wicked, which came after the movie The Wizard of Oz, which was based on the book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

And that is so many creative cooks in the kitchen, John, Like, that is a century of creative interpretation and a lot of storytellers shaping this world.

What did it feel like to step into this legacy?

And I guess even a more specific question is there's so many creative fingerprints on the story, what did you hold on to as yours?

Well?

I saw a really a funny tweet today and I screen grabbed it just I thought it was so funny it says scary how novels written one hundred and twenty five years ago source material for a novel published thirty years ago and a musical that premiere twenty two years ago could lead to a pair of movies that are more prescient and relevant than ever before.

In twenty twenty five, Happy New York premiere to Wicked for good like it is insane, It is insane, but in a weird way.

It is the hallmark of a timeless story that it is always timely in the interpretations of what's nice is about Each person who's interpreted the Wizard of Oz kind of understands that for some reason they understand the subversive nature of this story or what it can reflect back to a culture.

Maybe because it is the American fairy tale.

So there's a lot of things that connect.

When you say American fairy tale, what does that mean?

So for me, when I looked at it, I knew that Wicked was written right after nine to eleven, at a time where America was going through great change, and Wizard of Oz was written during a time of great change in the turn of the century.

And so I got this, that's interesting the script.

I got this script at during COVID Lockdown, and I just had my first child, and it made a lot of sense to me that the world was crumbling all around me and that the American dream was suddenly a facade or seemed like it, and oh my gosh, that the adults maybe don't know what they're doing.

And I had to grow up, we all had to grow up.

Home didn't feel like home.

It felt like a strange place all the summer, Like what do I need to feel home?

And so those questions came very relevant to me.

So I knew that if I were going to do this story that I had to had to be a reflection of where we are.

That was the tradition actually that each artist that has come in and come into OZ.

And then as we were making it, you know, when you cast Cynthia Rivo and she's singing the words of Alphaba a woman who is green, that means something very different to Cynthia Rivo, and she's bringing her own decade long wounds and ideas to the table.

Right that changes every word that we've known and we've heard over and over again.

Something has changed within me, something's not the same.

I'm through with playing by the rules of somebody else's game, Like to me, that is just coming from her?

Is it changed the whole musical for me?

And then you have arian, Yeah, she's she's she's somebody who is literally the most popular girl in the world, and she's going to seem popular, and then she's going to deconstruct that idea of what popular actually even means and how you can get lost in this when everyone wants you to be happy and be the light.

How do you find your own light if you don't even know who you are yet?

So I think for me it was the specificity of how do I make this personal to myself, because it is the tradition of this story that it's author or it's not necessary author, it's interpreter, find its role in the life of that it's being made in.

So was your rubric for deciding what you wanted to keep into five your personal gut instinct?

It was my personal gut instinct about what the role of the story has in our lives, because I think that because this was about a story that we're told, we're told about what the wicked Witch looks like and how she acts, and we're finding out in the story, it is not the truth, and you're you're with a wizard who is spinning stories for power, and you're being you're telling the animals that when you discourage animals enough, it's it's easy to keep anyone silent.

And we're making a movie at a time where things are being silenced all around us.

So yeah, it felt like the only way, the only reason to make this now is to speak to the times that we're in.

Because that's the best thing about a movie musical is it's almost always the best ones are always subversive, whether that's sound of music or singing in the rain or cabaret.

In the book and in the libretto, there's a lot of internal dialogue and for characters, for a character like Alphaba, you're turning so much monologue into visual language in the film.

How did you decide what stays internal versus what deserves to be seen?

You know, we have the best tool to make the internal xterior, which is song.

So Winny years and years ago made many choices about what to take from the book and into the stage show.

I got to take that and say, and then Stephen Schwartz got to externalize those in music.

The power of a musical.

Some people think, oh, it's like a show and dance.

Oh I hate musicals because it's just performance.

Actually it's not.

It is it is You get deeper and more in with a character because you just you don't just have a soliloquy for a character.

You get melody.

You get a note, and one note can communicate with a paragraph never could communicate.

And you get movement, which means the way someone leans on a microphone says a lot about what mood they're and who they are.

The way they aggressively look at the characters says so much and I don't have to say one word of it.

So you get movement.

And that's not just dance, that's movement, that's posture.

And so you have that, and then you have song, and then you have lyric, and lyric can say the exact opposite what they're feeling.

When Glinda is singing in the microphone, it couldn't be happier.

That isn't I want song, But everything she's singing about is the opposite of what she wants.

So now I get to watch her sing what she quote unquote says what she wants, but you see in her eyes it's empty.

It's complicated, as she says, and I that power of a movie musical and when done right, when you understand every tool that you have, you become more intimate and to these characters.

I think that's why when people watch this movie they feel so moved, is because we have permission from the audience to use these tools.

They've accepted these tools, and if we don't use them to get us to care about a character more than what are we using them for?

For song and dance, you can go on TikTok and get all the song and dance you want.

So it becomes only more important as we use that language to and in the book, you know you have the words so and you have imagination and so we get to then through this other avenue, get to those similar places.

Actually, is there a deleted scene that fans will never see but you wish they could.

I know there's a scene that everyone wants to see that we're not going to show them.

What scene is that?

There's a scene where in movie one, all the friends from school, including Johnny Bailey, they go out into this park and they have a great day together.

It's like this beautiful bonding scene and we just didn't need it in the movie.

It was just too extraneous.

But there's a scene where Johnny takes off hish shirt and starts chopping wood and this guy his a pack looks amazing.

I mean, I don't know if I think if he had that clip back, you know, a year ago, he would have got sexiest Man Alive back then.

So we have we never we didn't play in the movie.

It was two extraneous, but that shot people have heard about and they're like, they harassed me every day on Instagram to share it.

So you never know.

But right now I'm keeping it in the vault.

I do think that that People magazine should have had you, Coleman and Jonathan Bailey together and it was like the men of Wicked.

That would have been my vote.

Yeah, I definitely would not be invited to that cover, but that's a great idea.

I love it.

Your wife would have been so happy too.

She would have had bragging like what I've heard you say that Wicked Part one is about choices and the bravery to make those choices, and part two is about consequences and staying with those choices, and it explores some pretty heavy questions like why defend a home that doesn't want you.

I love that question.

What scene or moment do you think captures that?

Yeah, it's something when I was doing in the Heights and there's this moment up Weella Claudia in that movie.

She's someone who came from another country and came to this country and raised her family, her neighborhood there and cared about them.

But at a certain point it wasn't working for her.

So she's making this decision to go back.

And I always thought that was so interesting.

I always thought that was so complicated, like, oh, you don't hear stories about people wanting to leave the United States.

This Weella cloudy idea of going home after her whole journey here was I don't know.

It was so I don't know, different than I've ever heard.

And so when we were talking about Alphaba and what she would go through, and this is not necessarily in the stage show, was happening in movie two, was wouldn't she wonder why she would even want to stay?

Wouldn't she wonder like what happens to this to a place that thinks you're the bad guy?

And that question is so relevant when you actually bring it up because that's an actual debate that's happening every day.

That is the question that's at the core of Alphaba because eventually, whether she thinks like she's not her responsibility to fix this place and she leaves, or something else, like she does ultimately leave and to use one of the most iconic terms, there's no place like home.

To make that point, Oh, that's like heartbreaking just in saying it out loud.

And Stephen Schwartz is brilliant.

He knew this moment it was either going to be a scene or a song to express this, and Stephen Schwortz, it's a song and I know how it's going to play out and this he at first it was like it's going to be an anthem, like okay, but the question is very deep, and so he added this opening that was why do I love this place that never love me?

Oh?

That was so heartbreaking in itself.

And then she goes on and she fights for it.

She's like, no, no, no, but this is we have to.

The other animals are like, I'm we're tired, we can't fight nowhere, and she's like, no, we have to, and so it becomes this calling card.

But she doesn't finish the last note, and on purpose?

Why Because I think there's a difference between intention and completion, and we can't at this moment have a completion of the idea.

It has to be cut off by the troubles of the present, which is at that point the cowardly lion that comes in and interrupts her and blames her for things that she's done in her past.

I think you can have the idealism as we need to fight for this place, but the reality always crashes back in.

It's not about an anthem, It's about a consistent living and fighting.

What do they say like independence feels like rejection until it feels like growth, you know.

I think we always think about actors emotionally and where they are in a scene, But I don't know that I've ever thought about where a director was emotionally shooting a scene.

Where were you emotionally when you shot that?

We're shooting no place like home.

I mean, it's very personal question for me in terms of what is home because I grew up in a very close knit family in a Chinese restaurant that has very specific ideas about what America is and what our family should be and how close we should be, and I'm the one who left.

They all live in the area still I left.

I came to La to pursue the stream.

And I always struggle because I'm so close to my family about what I'm creating away from them, and now that I have five kids, like my whole life is changing.

Oh my home is here.

Those are my am I supposed to say relatives, No, that's my family too, Like it's very confusing as an adult.

Now you're supposed to be like, what's the priority, But like, my wife is my priority, My kids are my priority.

When you're that close with your family and they've survived for you, and they've lived so much and sacrificed so much for you, it is really hard to even like, maybe it's not a list, you know, my mom taught us, Oh, you got to be number one, you got to do this and that, But me, it's not.

Maybe maybe the whole thing is like it's not a list, But I struggle with that.

So so when she's singing it, I and I look at America and I think about this place I believe in with all my heart, and I see how bad we can be too.

It breaks my heart that we can't be everything that I thought we were, and so as she's singing it, I'm very I'm very invested in that it's not I don't want her to blame anything, and I don't want I just want her to be like searching, and so that's sort of what I'm doing as I'm watching her perform.

Of Course, I need to be very to capture what she's doing, and I need to be aware that if I need to move the camera to get to juice something that she's doing, I have to be plugged in right where she is.

So I'm usually really close to the camera.

I'm usually like on the ground somewhere, and I'm trying to feel everything that she's giving so that I can because the movie usually starts to speak back to you.

She's doing usually something different.

On the day we have she did all her singing live, both of them, so so we have a pianist right off camera, and she has an earwig in her in her ear so she can hear the piano.

She can go off tempo if she wants, or she can go on tempo.

The pianist is supposed to watch follow her, and so I am also following her in a way, and as she's doing it, things are changing and I'm finding things, so I can be like, oh, you hit this moment, let me get it closer right here, so I can be hey, let me push the camera in just slightly here.

Or if you walk into this light right when you sing that lyric, you're giving you're giving this sort of surrender.

But if you walk into the light on that surrender, I think we're gonna it's gonna, it's going to enhance that idea.

So it's just being present.

I'm wondering if you think that fantasy books and musicals offer escapism or are they amplifying real life.

I used to think that stories are escape.

That was when I watched ET.

They took me to another planet and my jaw was on the floor in awe.

And I think there is an element of that.

But I actually think the job of a story is to take you out of your life but land you back at home.

I think the I think that the job of the artist is to explore the dark places or the intricate, conflicting areas of the human species and our feelings, so that people who need to put food on the table and give a roof over their children's head can do that, and still when they watch something or hear something or read something, can experience another part of their humanity that they know that they feel inside but maybe don't have the time to process.

And that's why I'm very sensitive and I love actors and writers because they have to access these parts that are so deep and so scary.

It can spin you around and around and around.

And some people call that, you know, dramatic and whatever, but like that's what we actually all feel inside, and that is what's running our lives.

That is what's running how you look at the world.

And so when I when I'm working on a on a movie, I'm we're asking these actors to be emotionally available and in toort of to confront darkness, you have to like sort of step into darkness.

And so I try to be very sensitive that that there are they are our explorers of the of the internal.

And so, yeah, it's making a movie is very it's we have to protect each other and hold each other's hands what we're going through and who God knows who we're going to find.

And I think when you're in terms of escape, I think that it is a scared to a place that's very close to our hearts anything and wondering awe as a part of that, I guess, because you want to like pop out of your life, but leading always back to real life here.

You know, Kristin chenow With and Adina Manzel had they played these characters so iconically and theater kids came to know them so well.

What conversations did you have with Cynthia and Ariana about making these parts their own?

Because I can imagine it's hard, like their their performances were so recognizable.

I think about that riff that Kiki Palmer did all of Awards season and like, how do you make this?

Like it's almost an impossible task.

Yeah, and I think that we auditioned a lot of people.

It was a reason why it wasn't like let's just go and make an offer to this person and that person.

We didn't know the answer.

I could not determine what is going to make the difference, like who's going to be who's going to understand this at a level of a Diana or Christen Like that wasn't a prescriptive thing I could figure out.

It was like, well, Noah, when we see it, and we didn't want want stars.

We knew Wicked was big enough you could discover people, so let's go searching, and then you discover the technical aspect of the singing is really hard, so that you actually probably do need professionals who have, like you know, been through the through through the thing to to pull it off.

And then you're like, all right, then they have to be an actor, Like you can't just sing.

That is not good enough, Like you have to connect to the dots and you have to be able to do it communicate it on screen, which is very different than on stage.

We went through everybody.

I mean, the reality is we wouldn't have made this movie if they didn't show up at our doorstep.

And it was the very loudst doorstep.

But Cynthia Rivo arrived and you're like, does she even want to do this?

Does it have to be there?

Because you know it can take over your life.

It has taken over her life now.

But the moment she sang it, it was unlike it at alphabet I had ever seen before.

Those words spoke to me in ways that never and I've listened to it over and over and over and over again.

Wizard and I I saw, I saw myself as a kid dreaming about, you know, being a filmmaker in my dorm room when she's saying, did that really just happen?

And I then when she gets onto the at that point, it wasn't a cliff yet, but I could feel like she, oh, she needs to be on a cliff here when she sings that last not the Wizard and I and and she stops, and the birds fly over, and there's a there's a rainbow on the distance and that yearning.

And yet when she turns black to walk away, you think, oh, she's not gonna she's not ready for that yet.

That she turns back and looks one little look and that's so typical Synthory when she looks back and you can tell that she's saying, well, one day I'm going to That little thing is just like everything.

So to me, that's so different than than Adina, Like I didn't that's not competing with a Dina.

That's not anything.

It's just a different interpretation of alphaba.

And yet we're using the bones of what alpha what what what this character that that a Dina dug deep into.

So there's we were we were on the shoulders of giants and Chris and especially like she created these jokes and these things in workshops and however they create and now they are Bible, and so we try to stick to them.

But at the same time, the Glinda that we were going to choose had to be it in a different way.

When I saw Arianna and she came in, she was the best way I can explain it is she was the real life Glinda, like as if I was reading, I was meeting the Glinda that the show was based off of, because she wasn't doing an impression of kristin Jenny.

She was just doing the spirit of it.

And then I could give her improv about other things and I would I was watching Glinda trip over a chair or reading a book, and that was when I knew, Okay, I like actors who can play you can be President live because that's where we're going to play, and we're going to make this unique to us.

So anyway, I didn't know it would be this successful, though, to be honest, she would be Academy Award nominated actors and that's it is deserved in all the ways.

But I don't think any of us could have predicted that.

I always ask our guests what they've bookmarked this week, and it can be something that you scrolled upon or something you texted your friend, a song, a poem, a lyric.

What have you bookmarked this week?

John?

Bookwork this week?

Well?

I love this book by my friend Jededi Jenkins called Mother Nature.

I think it's like such a beautiful book.

He takes this car ride with his mom.

They have very different ideas of religion of the world, and yet they're so sweet together.

And it's him not coming out to her, but him sort of confronting her what he thinks, what she thinks about that in ways that she's not comfortable with.

And it's just a beautiful story about two very opposite people.

So I always love that.

But but I think the thing that's been staying with me this week, only because we've been promoting the film, Yes, I was like, what's the name of the movie?

Yes, we've been promoting Wicked.

Is this quote from the book itsself that we put on the that we put on the tin Man's Outfit but we never got a close above it, but it was part of the It's from the l Frank Bomb book.

But it really motivated me on what the themes of this are and it's a very simple thing.

It's not romantic, it's not something you would normally quote, but I feel very connected to in the story of Wicked and what where we are now, and it is if we walk far enough, we shall sometime come to some place.

I just think that that when I think about fairy tales and the story that we need to tell and equip our children with, it's like, there is no grand thing you're waiting for.

There will be grand things, but just keep walking and you will be at the place that you're supposed to be.

And I love that.

It's just not some flowery idea that it's just it is life.

Keep walking and explore and be curious.

It's beautiful.

Okay, John, you spent your entire life telling stories through movement and through image, through song even but you've also told a story through words in your memoir it's called Viewfinder, a memoir of seeing and being seen, And that's a really different kind of storytelling.

It's nonfiction, it's internal, it's completely non visual.

What was it like to shift from directing what we see to writing what you see?

Yeah, it was difficult.

It was a two year process.

I was in between movies, and Jeremy McCarter, my co author, was someone who was writing.

He wrote the Hamilton book and he was doing the behind the scenes for the In the Heights book and we were talking about my life growing up, and he's like, this is incredible.

Like you were at the cusp in the Silicon Valley in the eighties when the right of the computer was coming.

You were there.

You were giving computers and digital photography before anyone your age should have it.

You were then going into you left this area and went to Hollywood when there was no YouTube or social media.

It was still on a film and then there you by the time you graduate, YouTube was happening and social media started to happen, and you were at the cusp of all this, at the front lines of it all, and you're finding your cultural identity all at the same time, all the way accumulating to crazy Riachasians and then now Wicked and so it was just a really interesting like, yeah, I was a frontline person who saw old Hollywood switch to new Hollywood, switch from old technology to new technology, and the Silicon Valley come and invade La eventually.

So we just had a lot of great perspective that it was difficult to put my thoughts and my ideas into the words.

I would write down sort of free writing stuff, and Jeremy was really helpful and saying no, this should go in this order really connects in that and so we just had a great time, and every few days we would talk on the phone for a long time and then we'd share different writings, and so it was a really it was a really cool experience to see story through that perspective.

I loved learning about your family, particularly your mom, and maybe it's because I identify with that sort of relationship.

My mom has been so instrumental in my careers, like she'll see things or convince me to do something.

Will you tell us the story of how your mom convinced you to do stuff and what she said to you.

Yeah, you know.

I graduated from college and I had Steven Spielberg found me.

He saw my short film, and I like I had won the lottery.

I got to meet him, I got to go to his sets, and I got movies set up at different studios around town.

But after a few years, all of those movies fell apart, and suddenly five years later I found myself had not made a movie yet, and I thought it was over.

I thought maybe I missed my opportunity.

And so at that point, my managers sent me scripts and they said, there's this one thing you can do.

It's a it's a direct to DVD movie based off of a dance movie sequel.

And I was like what.

I was like, I was discovered by Steven Spielber.

I am not, that's not I do films.

I go into theater movie theaters.

And I told my mom and she's like, when did you become a snob?

She's like, are you a storyteller or are you not?

If you're a storyteller, you should be able to tell a story in any medium.

You should tell it, you know, in the back of your car, in a conference room or around a fire or on DVD.

Like show them, you show yourself that you can actually tell your story in this And I was like, so motiv.

I was like, you're right, mom, I'm going to be the make the best damn direct to DVD dance movie sequel ever.

And so I rewrote the treatment of it and went in and pitched, and then they decided to make it into a feature film, and that was making my first movie and made one hundred and over one hundred and fifty million dollars world wide.

It was it was the story of everything, so I could get off of my overthinking and high horse and just tell stories.

Does she take credit to this.

Day, one hundred she'll take credit.

Yes.

Did writing your own story change anything about your directorial process?

That's an interesting question.

I haven't.

I didn't think that deeply into that, but when I think about it, yeah, I know it did.

I know it did because I I think of story differently.

Writing a book was because the structure was so different than anything I had ever done before.

It It made me realize that you're reading a book is a different mental state.

The reader's relationship with a story is different than in a movie.

And I know that's obvious, but at the same time, you don't know it until you're making the plumbing and then you're trying to interpret your story into a form.

And there were moments where I thought it should be chronic logical, and it was very clear to Jeremy.

He's like, no, no, no, this connects this way and you got to skip jump here so that you can get to there.

And I just I just thought was fascinating and so and also you know.

I guess we can jump cut here.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

But also it's an experience.

You know, when you're reading, there is an experience, an active experience happening.

It's not passive.

So I loved learning a little bit about that, and also freedom to explore, Like there's this point where in the book where I'm trying to tell the audience how my parents met, but I don't know the real story, Like my parents have told me many different stories and they all sort of float around the same things, but I can't get actual facts from them.

And so he's like, Okay, here's the way you're going to do it.

Write it like a script in a movie, and just like give that to me, and I'll ask you another prompt and then you write that scene of that.

And so I did that, and it was so much easier to try to explain or make sense of my parents' story in that way and gave me think in film, film and I and I and I, and it forced me to think about how I think of my parents or what I thought of them when they were young, and I became I felt like I was there with them when They're on the beach and my mom is sitting there with her girlfriends, and this group of guys in their suits walks across the beach in Santa Cruz with their shoes on, and how these girls sort of laugh at these guys.

Just it just put me in a space and it was really fascinating to do that exercise.

It kind of sounds like you were describing Greece in that moment.

I mean, it does have a thing.

My mom was like my mom always describes that as she was studying Russian, she was like doing her homework for class Russian, and then these guys came along and there was like music playing in the beach and there was like barbecues going, so it was very visceral.

Actually, So you've done TV and film and books.

How do you see these different mediums informing one another in your work.

I see myself as a storyteller, like my mom always insisted, and so I think the medium in which they are expressed can be whatever medium they need to be it.

Maybe it could be even a podcast.

But I think that you know, when you go into film school, you're locked in because it's the only thing you know, Like, oh, I want to be a director.

But when you get to film school, you learn all sorts of aspects of what go into production.

You learn editing, you learn sound design, you're learning you know cinematography, and maybe your storytelling plays better in editing.

Maybe your storytelling is not a director's lifestyle.

It's a very strange, weird lifestyle, and you have to have sort of a certain personality, I think, to actually live it.

So I think that keeping your radar open of if you are a storyteller, what is the medium in which your storytelling telling is best at?

And also it can evolve over time.

So I think that's what's happening.

I'm finding these new avenues in which to express the stories that I feel like are filled my brain every day, and so it's been fun to exercise those sides.

When did you know or how did you know you were a storyteller?

I think I was always a storyteller, for sure.

I mean I grew up in a restaurant, so everything it's a house of stories.

I say this in the book that it's like everywhere people were telling about telling my dad about their newest company, or about the gossip about their family, and my dad was sharing them with the gossip of my family, and so it was everyone was there to share.

And if I may impose my opinion, I think it's also because you come from a long story and you're so aware of it, that's so interesting.

I think that's a good point.

I don't know if I was aware of my story as being anything other than like my life until much, much later.

I think I always felt like my story was boring.

I think I always felt like, oh, gosh, nobody wants to know about the kid who has a loving family in a restaurant and went to film decided to go do film school and somehow was given cameras and software, didn't pay for them and just started making movies and then got discovered by Spielberg.

Like it felt like nobody wants to know that story, and yet looking back at it, there's just so many moments of unknowns, And I think I think the thing that I have found the most power in my storytelling is that I have been telling myself a story in my whole life that one day I'm going to do this and that and oh, this is a tough moment.

I feel like I'm on the bottom, but you know what this is going to be a great chapter in my book.

Oh my gosh, he just said no, but this wait until we get a yes.

Then this is going to be a great day in that story.

That is the most powerful thing that I've think I've been able to use to.

Survive at all as a fan.

Something that I think is so glorious is that you're doing Joseph and the Technicolor dream Coat.

All the places you'll go I have I'm going to admit something embarrassing.

Every year for my birthday as a kid, I asked to go see Joseph in the Technicolor dream Coat.

I saw it seven times in theater.

Wow, Donny Osmon was my childhood crush, which is weird.

Most people's childhood crush was John Stamos or something.

Not mine, Donny Osmond.

But it's going to be so psychedelic for you.

What's the difference between your superpower and synesthesia?

Because I heard you can see people's aura colors.

I knew this was going to come up.

I don't actually know what it means.

That's why I don't like bring it up that much.

I just see colors when asked to see it.

But again, it people like to try to interpret, Oh it means this or that, and I'm like, I don't know.

I haven't looked it up.

I don't know.

And so like Cynthia and Auri would always do it to me.

So I just see when I look at somebody, I can see it's sort of like focus.

We're like mm hmm.

You know, if you're not focusing on the foreground stuff, then you don't really see it in every day but if you actually look and you all adjusturise, and then you can kind of see it.

So I don't know what it means.

This is so cool, and I don't know when it changes, the why.

It changes, but it's going to be amazing when you shoot that film.

And it doesn't like, you know, how people can I wish I could do the thing where people hear a note and they see colors or like your number or they see I did that doesn't I don't know what that even means.

I don't know how that's possible.

It's unbelievable.

Well, I just have one minute left with you, so I'm going to put sixty seconds on the clock.

We're going to do speed read and see how many rapid fire literary questions we can get through.

Are you ready?

Okay, let's try.

Okay, we'll do our best three two one?

What do you think would be on Alphabo's bedside table?

To read?

Ooh, the Great Gatsby?

What book are you most grateful for?

My Broken Language?

By Kiara Houdas Alegria, who wrote in the Heights.

I know you said you love biographies.

Do you have a favorite one?

I mean, it's so cheesy, but the Steve Jobs one I love just because of Steve Jobs.

But there's a Chuck Jones one I don't remember the name of it that I love.

I don't know if it's considered a biogos it's not really, it's not a biography at all.

But Bill by Tony Fiddel.

It's like the sort of his philosophy of not just inventing the iPod, but of other from general magic and his journey.

Okay, your favorite fictional love story?

Well, the Great Gatsby?

But I already said that one.

It's okay.

I love the great favorite staging of a musical?

I think Hamilton is genius.

I don't even watching it today, it's like it's insane.

What's your favorite page to screen adaptation?

Only because this is like nostalgia.

But I remember reading Jurassic Park before it was ever a movie and I was obsessed.

Fabulous favorite fictional story between friends.

M yeah, I guess let's say Wicked.

Let's okay.

Last one?

Your favorite book to recommend to aspiring filmmakers.

There's a book called Viewfinder that I really enjoy for every creative person that's starting with.

Is do it Personal Plug?

I love it?

Why not?

Last one?

What is a book that you give most often?

Mystery of Harris Burdict.

Fabulous, John Cheu.

You are so interesting and I can only imagine how exhausted you are and you're still this smart and interesting.

Thank you for sharing your time with us.

Thank you, appreciate you.

Okay, friends.

Before we wrap today's episode, I'm bringing back our monthly comfort segment from Cotton, called the Booknook.

It's where we explore the rituals that make reading feel just right.

And as you know, Cotton is at the heart of so many of like's everyday comforts.

Whether that's your favorite cozy sweater worn and scarf, or the sheets you slip into after a long day.

Cotton helps us feel grounded and at ease, which makes it the perfect companion for a good book wherever you read it.

Let's hear from another Bookmark listener sharing their ideal reading setup.

Hey, Danielle Hay Bookmarked.

My name is Brittany and I'm calling from New York City, so I can read anywhere and everywhere.

I mean, it's New York City.

There are so many great places, But my favorite place to read is actually on the subway.

I know it sounds like the hardest place to focus, but the way the train whirs as it speeds with the tunnels and the low drownd of commuter chatter make for the perfect background noise.

And when things do get a little too loud, you know, sometimes as a crying and baby, I can throw on my favorite reading playlists of acoustic guitar ballads and it really drowns out that noise.

Also, the luminous glow of the overhead lights make queting a breeze during sleepy morning commutes when I forget my coffee, and if the train gets a little too snug for me to open my book, I can just throw on an audiobook instead and let the story consume me.

Are there other people out there who enjoy a lively reading environment.

Thanks for listening.

Happy reading, Brittany, I love this.

Only in New York could the subway double as the perfect reading nook.

There's something so real and alive about your ritual.

The hum of the train, the chatter of passengers, the rhythm that somehow becomes its own kind of calm.

I can just picture you tucked into your commute, book in hand, maybe in a cotton turtleneck or soft sweater, tuning out the world one page at a time.

It's such a great reminder that comfort isn't always about quiet.

Sometimes it's about feeling at home, even in the middle of the rush.

So friends, keep your ideal reading setups coming.

Where do you get lost in a book?

What textures surround you?

Soft sheets, a cozy throw, maybe your favorite cottonie.

Take me right into your reading ritual.

Leave me a voicemail at five zero one two nine, one three three seven nine, or email a voice memo to bookmarked at Reese's book club dot com.

Thanks to Cotton for bringing this segment to life and reminding us that comfort and style can go hand in hand.

Don't forget to check the tag for Cotton, and if you want to learn more, head to the fabric of OurLives dot com.

And if you want a little bit more from us, come hang with us on socials.

We're at Reese's book Club on Instagram, serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic.

And I'm Danielle Robe, rob Ay, come say hi and DM me and if you want to go nineties on us, you can call us.

Okay, so our phone line is open, So call us now at five zero one two nine one three three seven nine.

That's five zero one two nine one three three seven nine.

Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, oh please share those and questions about the monthly pick, or just let us know what you think about the episode you just heard.

And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode, So don't be shy.

Give us a ring, and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows.

Until then, see you in the next chapter.

Bookmarked is a production of Hello, Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts.

It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Danielle Robe.

Production is by Acast Creative Studios.

Our producers are Matty Foley, Britney Martinez, and Sarah Schleid.

Our production assistant is Avery Loftis.

Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder are the executive producers for ACAST Creative Studios.

Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello, Sunshine, Olga Cominoa.

Sarah Kernerman, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers for Reese's book Club.

Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts.

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