Hello, I'm John Waters and I'm supposed.

To announce there is no smoking in.

This theater, which I think is one.

Of the most ridiculous things I've ever.

Heard of in my life.

How can anyone sit through a length.

Of a film, especially a European film, and not have a cigarette?

But don't you wish you had one right now?

Mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm.

And I'm telling you, smoke anyway.

It gives ushers jobs and if people.

Didn'T smoke, there would be no employment for the youth of today.

So once again, no smoking in this theater.

Thank you very much for listening to Try Love.

It's a literal roundtable podcast where we talk about movies we saw and or people we met at or through the Trilon Cinema here in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

I say here because I'm one of the people who's here in Minneapolis who still gives a shit about this podcast.

You can find us on Twitter and BlueSky at trial of podcast.

You can find the trial on itself at trial on Cinema Trial and dot org.

I believe Instagram and Blue sky are their social handles these days.

In any case, my name is Jason Daphnis and I am very short on discipline.

And you can find me on Twitter and Bluesky @Nintendufus.

That's right, we're traders.

I'm Cody Narveson.

You can find me on blueskyodeynarveson.

I'm Harry Mackin and it's true, I've been blessed with an insight into podcasts that others don't have.

And sometimes I'm called upon to use it in our beloved masters Will.

You can find me on Twitter at Shitake Harry, I guess, or Blue Sky.

That's mostly where I am now.

I don't know why I said Twitter, but Punishtake is what I am on both of those, I think.

Whatever.

My name is, Aaron, please tell my next of kin that I lost my life in the line of duty.

You can find me on Blue sky every once in a while, I guess maybe about twice a week at RBPLs.

It's really just when there's time to complain about like the latest rap hip hop album or like a female popcorn.

I don't know, I don't.

I never do any complaining.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

We have to run that back and listen to how Jason called it a rap hip hop album as if he's an 85 year old man with got.

The five elements, you got beatboxing, you got battling.

Listen, I know Africa Bambata.

And that is as far, excuse me, as I'M gonna go.

We we are discussing a film.

It's one of the last few in the trial on series called Nazis.

We hate these guys.

I hate to say that mockingly because it's a.

It's a really good series so far.

You should check out other movies we've done from the same series.

A few to Juggle.

So we haven't covered everyone and we won't cover everyone.

But there are a few left in the series that you can still catch after this episode drops.

Go to trilon.org to see the calendar.

But even beyond that, there are some cool series coming up.

Nixon Land Horror in the Vietnam Era.

Untethered Visions of Nobuhiko Obayashi.

Tom Waits for no Man.

There's some stuff from the cult film collective, some Kung Fu Fury Film.

Christopher McQuarrie, Bruce Robinson and Richard E.

Grant.

Sharon Stone.

Just a lot of cool shit playing at the Trilon.

That's what I want to highlight in my little preamble here, but go to trilon.org and click the button that says Calendar to see it all.

For right now, though, we have to introduce the film that we're talking about today, which, irrespective of my opinion on the quality, I'm going to introduce with Aaron's patented Aaron Grossman summary introduction.

He always starts the same way and it goes like this.

Yes, indeed, folks.

Thanks, Jason.

Folks, I'm about to.

I'm about to read maybe 100 names in a row and I have not practiced this.

There's.

I'm going to get tripped up.

It's pronounced Lee.

It's Lee.

Well, that's, that's.

I got that one, Jason.

But, but thank you.

We're talking about The Dirty Dozen, 1967 film directed by Robert Aldrich.

The film stars Lee Marvin as John Riceman, an OSS major tasked with executing Project Amnesty, a mission to eliminate several high profile Nazis at a chateau in France during World War II.

Of course, to do this, he has been given 12 death row prisoners who have been promised a pardon on, you know, kind of the off chance that they return alive from the suicide mission.

I have them listed here in order.

Clint Walker as Samson Posey Donald Sutherland as Vernon L.

Pinkley Jim Brown as Robert T.

Jefferson Ben Carruthers as Glenn Gilpin Gilpin Stuart Cooper as Roscoe Lever Lever Tom Busby as Milo Vladek Colin Maitland as Seth K.

Sawyer Telly Savalas as Archer J.

Maggot Certainly everyone's favorite character in the film.

Charles Bronson as Joseph Ladislaw Trini Lopez as Pedro Jimenez, John Cassavetes, of course, as Victor R.

Franco, Al Mancini as Tassis R.

Bravo.

Oh, man.

I really thought you were also starring in the film.

I thought you really were gonna do like a John Cassavates.

That would have been a pretty good bit.

Cassava T.

Also starring in the film, Ernest Borgnine as Major General Sam Worden, Richard Jekyll as Sergeant Clyde Bowron, and George Kennedy as Major Max Armbruster.

Although controversial at the time due to the film's excessive violence, the movie was a massive success and has gone on to be, you know, more than just remembered.

Well, has gone on to be incredibly influential to all sorts of action espionage group films.

In December 2019, Warner Brothers announced it was developing a remake with David Ayer set to direct.

That's what I got.

Jason, Take it away.

Yeah, it was great that you ended with how influential this film was and didn't say anything else about it.

Suicide Squad 2014.

It was 2016.

Excuse you, pal.

Excuse you, pal.

It was both, wasn't it?

Wasn't there?

Suicide Squad and the suicide squad.

The 2016 and like 2020 22.

I forget which.

Neither of them is very good.

I'm sorry.

Finotum.

Finodom is a big fan.

I should also say perisphere.org is Trilon's blogging arm.

It's where you get criticism and thoughts from filmgoers and people who volunteer the Trilon.

There are a couple of pieces about this film on Perisphere.

Dia.

Org, one of which is penned by our friend and podcast guest Finn Odom, who compares it to other films that are sort of of the ensemble casts, redemption, arc, villains to heroes type thing, including both versions of the Suicide Squad films that have been made in the last.

Great piece.

No comment on those films.

Big stars are out tonight.

Energy from you, Aaron, on reading all of those Skies are Dark.

Tom Busby is Milo Vladic.

You know, every as maggot.

I just see it on like a sort of Coachella style, decreasing font size.

And time permitting, Frank Sinatra at the very bottom.

I did think for my.

For my quote at the beginning, I did think about saying on three, let's all say, say the name of the character in the movie who most reminds us of our friend Jason.

And then I would hope that everyone say maggot, but I don't know if that would have worked.

So I decided not to do it.

This despite being the one who has Greek ancestry here.

I think this might be like the first time I've had An extended exposure to Telly Savalas.

I mean, he got referenced in my house a bit, but more in the Kojak sense.

And we never watched Kojak, so just I knew him as the bald Greek guy.

I found out that he's got like a deformed finger, I guess maybe from an like an injury, a war injury that he like never shows on screen almost.

He was a huge fan of horse racing.

I'll talk more about Telly Savalas in positive lights later on.

No idea what he was like as a human.

He's dead now.

But I guess that's a good place to start talking about the film.

I'll toss to Cody first.

Have you seen this movie before?

Where did you land with it this time?

How do you feel about the Dirty Dozen?

Ooh, the English teacher approach, where I get three or four questions at once.

But you're right, it is an appropriate place to start.

Have not seen this movie before and I had been meaning to get around to it.

Obviously it was part of the Nazis We Hate these Guys series, so that was a ripe opportunity.

I've been I re listen to old and this is not free ad space for any other podcast, but I have a few that I listen to and re listen to and re listen to.

I Instead of like seeking out new music, I'll just like do the hacky thing of just re listening to old podcast episodes.

I like has one of the OG Suicide Squad.

OG you know, the one of the two that we were just talking about that came out first.

And they drop the Dirty Dozen references a lot.

They talk about maggot, they talk about John Cassavetes character.

And the more and more I re listen to that and more I'm like, I should probably watch the Dirty Dozen.

And then I get held up by the 2 1/2 hour runtime.

All of which is to say I liked watching it.

I was able to catch this one at the trial on last week.

A great environment for it.

The.

I don't know.

I'll try to keep this relatively concise, but I was generally down with the.

The sort of flow of it where it's.

It's a lot of guys.

You love a movie with.

With a lot of guys.

Some of these in particular, I would say are my guys.

But having the bulk of the movie.

Cody, who are your guys?

I've always wanted to ask were my guys.

That's, you know, I so he's not one of my like go to guys.

But anytime I see George Kennedy pop up in something and the fact that this is like he's goodness, he's, he's like bookish, you know, more so than he's I guess like other roles, you know, he's not, oh the, he's not like cool hand luking it up in here.

I guess the other one I'll throw out any, any of the original 12 Angry Men I sort of considered to be my guys.

Robert Weber pops up and this is one of those other like stoogy like like but not one of the, the Dirty Dozen proper.

Wow.

The 12 anger man and Dirty Dozen.

What is it with the the number 12?

Much to consider but anytime one of those guys pops up in something one of those again, original twelve Angry Men, I just, I kind of light up a little bit.

Dashing brill cream types.

24 men of various hygienic and anger levels.

That's you know what the.

We should workshop that.

Maybe that'd be like the shooting title.

And then we 24 neuro atypical middle aged men.

That just sounds like any board game night at your local game shop.

All of which is to say I did not.

I, I, I like the, the, you know, the fact that the main thrust of this is just us spending time with these different Personas, a lot of which have been just in my, you know, limited, you know, I'm not like a like affluent in like 60s 70s cinema mileage.

I know enough about these guys to know what they brought to the screen.

Maybe not so much about you know, knowing and maybe we'll get into it of like how this particular picture like reinforced some of those on screen or off screen Personas of these, you know, 3:40, 50 guys that are in this movie or if that's, you know, this is just like a train station where they all sort of met and then they all went their separate ways.

I like the idea of bringing all these different personalities together and vibing with that.

For the extent that we get at this like sort of isolated training camp area where they go through their like divisional maneuvers, all that stuff was great.

I ended up not minding the runtime so much.

Ended up not minding that, you know, we get the sort of.

I don't know if the we could.

I feel like I saw some letterboxd mutuals of mine.

Bump Bumpa gets like the pacing and that same sort of flow that I generally found myself aligning with.

I don't know.

And maybe it was just because I saw it in a space on a bigger screen with a room, you know, half full or like 2/3 full.

With people, but I don't know, it felt just the.

When the meat of the thing is like the training and the journey to get to the actual destination, it's like whenever something invokes that like 36 chamber flavor.

I don't know.

I really sort of dig that.

And I dug it.

Not to say that it was perfect by any means, but I generally vibe with this.

I know Aaron and Jason caught it yesterday.

Aaron, tossing it to you with you being a little bit fresher off of this than me.

What are your thoughts the day after?

My immediate thought is that the comparison to martial arts films, very good.

Like the.

The most of the film kind of being the training and then having kind of the final climax just be kind of the culmination of that.

That's.

That's a good comparison.

That's pretty.

You should talk about once a week on a podcast about movies.

I think you might.

You might.

Might have a.

Might have a future in that.

I.

So I, you know, I'm usually not, you know, Jason's usually the one to kind of direct the flow of the conversation a bit, I think, kind of piggybacking off what you just said a little bit.

I think there's kind of like two elements.

Elements of this film that are like, you know, at least from kind of looking at what people have been saying online about the film, my own kind of, you know, knowledge of the film as well, and my experience watching it.

I think there's kind of like two aspects of this film that are maybe a little obvious, maybe kind of like weirdly like over talked about, but maybe might be important to kind of get out of the way.

Right.

Which is like this.

As like this ensemble film.

And also this is a film in which like 90% of it is taken up with soldiers training to do the thing that happens at the very end of the movie.

Right.

I think that that is like your enjoyment of this film is like, almost entirely defined by how much you are okay with those two aspects in a weird way.

Right.

Like, there are 12 characters in this film.

Four or five of them are distinct.

Right.

I would say maybe none of them have like a character arc, per se.

Right.

I don't think that's like a necessary thing for a film like this.

I think this film is like, showing that that sort of characterization is like, not actually necessary for a movie that is operating kind of mechanically in this way.

Right.

I also think that, like, you know, there's a lot of this movie, you know, for a film that's called like the Dirty Dozen.

And it's all about, like, you know, there's a chateau in France.

We need to go kill these Nazis in a chateau in France.

A lot of it is, like, the officers are being dicks to the Dirty Dozen, and the Dirty Dozen are going to prove their worth, you know, And I don't necessarily think that's like, a bad thing, but it does sort of.

You know, you're either going to love that training stuff or you're going to say, I didn't love the training stuff, but the ending really made up for the training stuff, right?

And, like, I don't know, I'm kind of on the ladder there.

And I don't mean to be, like, reductive.

Been talking about the film, but, like, the film is, like, so clearly to me, like, sort of defined by those two elements in a very weird way.

Jason, I don't know, did.

Did.

Did that tie into your experience?

Am I being too reductive in sort.

Of an inverse way where.

I think that is the part that I appreciated maybe most about the movie was the, like, sort of coming together, the learning and growing, the, like, sort of binding together of the group.

I don't know that it's, like, the greatest example of that in filmmaking or storytelling writ large, but it is, I think, a good, like, balance for as much, like, quote, unquote, Star Powers.

This movie has as big an ensemble as it has as much as it is, like, oh, that guy is in this movie.

I still feel like the under, like, the underlying heart of it, the main vein, is, for me, the sort of shaping of that group as, like, a unit.

Of course, it becomes text at a certain point where I felt a little bit less smart because Lee Marvin says it out loud.

He's like, did you notice?

Right after the whole shaving incident scene, he's like, did you notice?

They said, we're not going to take it.

We're not going to shave.

And that's the point that I was starting to make in my head was like, the point of him sort of, like, putting them through these exercises and all this training.

And the extended, like, one hour plus is just them, like, training and, you know, learning how to work together without knowing it is the, like, behind the scenes, they're supposed to be coalescing as a group against the, you know, figure of authority who's whipping the use, you know, cracking the.

Excuse me, cracking the whip kind of thing.

I liked that a lot.

I don't know that it always.

I think it might try to milk that for more than it's worth at a certain point.

And then.

But by the end, the climax, the like big bloody battle, the extended sequence at the castle is still gratifying, but again, a little bit drawn on you and I.

Aaron both kind of remarked how, why don't they just throw that fucking grenade, shoot that bullet and get the fuck out of there.

And I think it is because the filmmaking sense of the time was like, we're going to take this sort of build up as given.

We're going to get this like, you have these 12 guys, they all got to kind of balance.

We're not going to be able to give them all like equal screen time.

But you are going to need to know who the important ones are.

You're going to need to get the right time with the right people.

But as a whole you're supposed to see, more importantly, you're supposed to see that they're coming together as a whole.

And then by the time that the climax comes around, I feel like the filmmaking sensibility at the time was let's just, you know, make this last as long as possible.

Let's build the tension, let's put them in as many like, things go wrong situations as possible.

For that ending to like last right.

For me in 2025, I don't know that that ending was as like cathartic as maybe I thought it.

Like the preceding hour and 30 minutes of the movie had sort of earned.

But it was, I mean, like, it's big, it's bombastic.

It is maybe just because I had seen so many reviews of it and so much criticism of it from the time that was like, it's too, it's too violent, it's too just machismo, it's too testosterone fueled.

Doesn't feel that way in 2025, of course, with the benefit of, you know, 50 years of hindsight.

But it's still, I mean overall it still works for me.

I think it still works as a package.

But that the building, the forming, the coming together of the team is still, I think there's like, that's what I still liked about the movie most.

Harry.

You had experience with this movie or no, and was the like balance of action to training sort of a sticking point for you?

Sure, yeah.

I had seen this once before.

I saw it at the trial on a couple years ago, I think in 2023.

I liked it then, I like it now.

I liked it a fair bit less watching it not in theaters.

I think maybe that's just a byproduct of the Natural sort of what it feels like to watch this in a theater versus at home.

I guess my hot take is, I think you could lift an hour out of this movie pretty easily.

It's clearly the second act when they do the mock drills.

I find that stuff to be so boring and annoying and like the fact that you are supposed to understand the characters that you're supposed to like and not like in direct relation to their reactions to the Dirty Dozen's antics in that sequence.

It's like watching children's television vision it.

Like, seriously, that part really bums me out.

I.

The thing that makes it unnecessary is the, the ending part that like the, the culmination of it could be the final siege of the castle.

Like they've learned how to come together as a group and this is their plan in action.

I like the ending for very alternate reasons to you, Jason, which is that I don't find the ending cathartic at all.

I find it brutal and sad.

Eleven of the Dirty Dozen die, and they die relatively horribly.

And they're deaths are not necessarily.

I mean, they're remarked upon, but they are very quickly moved on from.

And I find that to be a really compelling contrast between how they were characterized starting out when you realize that like, at the end of the day, these people are meat for the grinder.

This was a suicide mission.

And the brass kind of like always intended for these people to get ruined this way.

Like, the idea that the Dirty Dozen would survive was not really something that anybody gave a about other than Lee Marvin's character.

Right.

Like, that was.

That was a like very distant second thought.

And like, like we said, right, like the, the thing that Charles Bronson wins at the end of this is to return to active service once he's well enough to.

To go back there.

Right.

I think that there is.

There is a really interesting anti authoritarian strain in this movie that I remarked upon last time I saw it, but I felt it here as well.

I really like the idea that like this movie sets up a like brass and apparatus of the military versus the soldier thing on almost like labor terms in the sense that like military is a work of labor, war is a work of labor.

Right.

And we've got the actual workers, the soldiers versus the upper brass.

And I really like the idea that this movie sets up that like what the apparatus of military is all about is sort of obfuscating the fact that soldiers actually fight in wars, not like military personnel.

Right.

And there is this idea that like.

Oh, but yes, but the training and the, the Rigors and the, the discipline that is imparted by the military apparatus is what actually creates victory.

And it's like, that's not true, right?

This movie gets to an interesting place with anti authoritarianism in that it indicts the idea that like these military bigwigs have like deluded themselves into thinking that they are the reason why war is won.

And like there is this very like alt history thing happening in this movie that like, does a good job of lionizing the actual people who fight and die in, in war, right?

Like, it's this idea that like, you know, it's not the upper brass, it's the literal dirty dozen, the grunts, the often like the people that you don't make movies about, right?

Like, like the prisoners turned soldiers fighting for their lives that actually won this war and, and did this thing.

And it didn't really have anything to do with what we think about as traditional sort of military valor, right.

It wasn't about the discipline, it wasn't about the patriotism.

It was about like men fighting for their lives.

Right?

And I, I like that the problem with this movie is I don't really think it fully gets there because it's, it's so interested in being a relatively two dimensional, relatively rah rah action movie.

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

I just don't think it's quite my tempo, so to speak.

You know what I mean?

I think that like for instance, and maybe this is unfair, but like watching this right after the last detail is like such a demonstration of what my sensibilities are for filmmaking.

It's like there couldn't be a clearer 60s versus 70s movie, right?

Where it's like this movie is going to like maybe tentatively dip its toe in the idea that the US military was not the greatest and that like actually like serving up human beings as like scapegoats and sacrificial lambs for these missions is, is kind of up and maybe we should be thinking about it differently.

Whereas the last detail almost takes that as a given, right?

It's just like, and like this.

Whereas this movie has Lee Marvin who kind of like in my opinion, complicates and undermines the movie's messages because he is just a military guy who is also a, just a good dude and we're supposed to love him.

I just like there's so much of this movie that is all about like having very, very uncomplicated feelings about the characters and about the military and it kind of makes it duller in my opinion, than it could be.

Especially like I said, that middle segment where it's like, literally there are just like, there are fuddy duddy majors that are meant to be frustrated by our rascally Dirty Dozen.

And we're supposed to just love the rascals in that segment.

And it's just like, what are we doing here?

Like, this is.

This is.

All of these actors are so overqualified for.

For such a simple plot conceit.

I.

Like I said, I think that, like, there's a lot of interesting stuff here.

I'm excited to dig into it.

But yes, I think that, like, the.

The fact that this is first and foremost a bombastic, sort of overcooked action ensemble movie kind of detracts from it, in my opinion.

I don't remember whose hand was up first, but I wonder how you guys feel about that.

Cody, how did you feel about sort of what I'm saying?

Sorry, sorry.

It's Aaron next, but Darren next.

Aaron put his hand down.

He's always doing that.

He's always confused and things.

Okay, you know what?

Fuck it.

I'll do it.

Harry, you think this.

This movie should.

It's too late.

Long.

You think you could easily cut out an hour?

I've got a pitch for you.

The pitch.

That's three pitches.

The Dirty Dozen.

Next Mission, 1985, the Dirty Dozen, the Deadly Mission, 1987, and the Dirty Dozen, the Fatal Mission, 1988.

Three made for TV sequels, I believe.

All of them.

The main returning element is Borg9 comes back for those.

No, no, no, no.

There's.

There's one in which Telly Zavalis plays the main character.

A completely separate from Maggot character.

I actually like that.

And he's like the leader of the.

That's pretty fun.

Like a different.

But they brought back Telly Savalas.

They're like, this guy's bankable.

We'll put him in another.

Hey, listen, he's great in this movie.

He is very good in this movie.

I will be.

I will be tying you all to chairs and making you watch all three of those @ some point in the future, just so you're aware.

So we got to find the Pogi Dozen, right?

The Philippines.

I would love to watch the Pog Dozen.

I have an email out to a guy that I found a comment from on a blog spot from last year where he's like, it's now available on this channel on YouTube.

I searched it, couldn't find it.

And I've sent him an email.

I'm like, can you link me to the pokey dozen?

Because I want to watch that anyway.

I really, really want to watch that.

Jason, please keep me updated.

I will.

I will.

Yeah.

Aaron, if you end up setting that or if somebody tells you to set that as a movie resolution for sometime, either, you know, I mean, hell, this year or future, we'll block off that time in late December of that year to watch all those together, which I would definitely do.

A lot of great threads being offered up here.

I'll try to touch on as many as I sensibly can.

The first one, calling all the way back to Jason a point you brought up.

The whole, like, the care that seems to be taken by these.

These guys in the latter act.

And maybe this will also thread into some of the other things I'll get.

I don't know.

We'll see where I end up.

But the whole, like, you're watching these guys and.

And because of what we've seen of them up to this point, because of our understanding of, I don't know, like, what needs to be done as an audience watching these guys shoot guns and throw grenades and do these things, you wish that they would just, you know, shoot one last bullet or drop one last grenade and just get the hell out of there.

And it was around that time where I started thinking about something that definitely owes a lot to this.

Inglourious Basterds.

The whole.

And I think they laid on a little thicker in that movie.

Or like, know Tarantino and friends of the.

We have this, this.

This plan in place.

It is definitely going to be disrupted.

Things are like, somebody's gonna up or something is going.

Something or someone is going to us up.

Right?

And all the more cases.

It's barely a plan, right?

It.

I.

One thing I really love about this is, like, the military brass is like, literally there's a big hotel where a bunch of Nazis hang out.

We're going to send people in.

Kill as many as possible before you get killed.

That's literally the whole plan.

It's just like, there's like a bunch of guys there.

You got to just kill as many as possible.

Eventually reinforcements are going to show up and you're going to get blown away.

But, like, don't worry about that.

Yeah, I.

Pulling back the curtain and I guess spoilers for the end of the episode.

I was going to go this route but didn't.

I was going to send each of y' all a script and it was the whole, like, back and forth of, like, whatever, you know, step one, see.

I Was I told Aaron I hope Cody makes.

Makes this our outro.

I want him to make us call in response to this.

That would be fantastic.

All right, well we'll toss that onto the Patreon then.

I.

I guess.

How do you guys feel about the chant?

I feel like that would piss me off as a soldier.

I would be like what now?

I have to memorize.

I have to memorize the plan and I have to memorize the chant.

Like that's just the point.

Like parts for me and I'm fine.

With dying, but the champ.

No thanks.

They need to say it a lot.

So it's like breathing once they get.

No, you're right.

I get it's part of their DNA, right?

That's right.

This is Cody, the coach coming out.

He makes this quad ball team do this all the time.

That was.

That was 100% where that came from.

But all because things are going to get fucked up and because we're not going to be able to point every part of this like 13 step plan or whatever.

All the more reason for like ultimately and to your point Harry, not It's.

It's even going further than kill as many before you like.

We need to make sure nobody leaves this compound alive and that's.

That likely means us as well as the dirty, you know, baker's dozen or whatever we're up to now.

But.

And part of what makes that so complicated as a viewer more than just like the on the ground.

This is difficult because of all these other unseen factors.

This guy at the door who's eyeing us a little weirdly.

The fact that, you know, maggot decides to really, you know, don his true maggot colors which whatever we may or may not get to the.

The idea of lifting something or cutting out a lot from the middle act sort of.

I endorse people thinking this movie is a little off balance or like fattier in areas where it shouldn't be fatty.

But I think part of what helps the such is the case with movies prior acts feeding into the final acts.

The fact that we do spend Even.

Even if we.

You know.

I agree with you Harry in that I think the movie wants us to feel uncomplicatedly about these characters.

I think I felt myself feeling relatively complicated feelings about these guys which is what I would have wanted because I felt eight different things at once as these guys started getting knocked, you know, knocked out of the movie.

As they started.

Yeah.

And killed.

Yeah.

And even, even if that mileage with them in Act 2.

Even if it's not all like, you know, rainbows and butterflies and flowers.

We think some of these guys, you know, in.

In their sort of nuanced ways, are able to be seen more positively than others.

Not to just, you know, bump maggot down the chain, but there I.

And I'm brain farting on some of.

Some of these other guys.

But that.

That dude that.

That Lee Marvin fights, that big guy.

The big guy who killed the guy with a punch because he got pushed.

That's a great guy.

Posey.

Posey.

That's his name.

Great name for a guy like that.

The best of the 12.

The best of the 12.

Maybe.

Oh, maybe.

I like the.

I personally like the black guy personally, Aaron.

Interesting that you wouldn't choose that one.

Harry's just more in touch with the lives of black Americans, I guess.

I just.

I'm just a little bit more in tune with the life of black Americans than you guys.

It's fine.

We got to utilize that clip against him more often.

But as you lift more of those and we don't even see.

We don't even get stretches of all of these guys in equitable fashion.

Of course, the bigger names get more.

More play, which makes sense.

Yeah, There were a couple of guys I didn't recognize when they.

Which I felt kind of bad about.

I was just sort of like, oh, that's one of the dozen that just died.

I don't really know him, but sorry to this man.

Right.

It was just like, we need to spend a couple extra minutes with.

Or more in some cases, like, you know, half hour blocks at a time with some of these guys so that when.

When they inevitably get killed or almost inevitably get killed.

Like we said, one of them, a couple of them are the main characters make it out of this movie.

Like, we feel that mixture of pride and sadness and confusion and contentment because, like, they're all here for a reason.

Some of those reasons are more nefarious than others.

You know, you gotta feel at least a few different things when you see, you know, grinning goose Donald Sutherland get shot down.

We need to know Scott Hatterberg's journey so that the one time we see him at a home run in Moneyball like that lands that is that much more impactful.

See, I brought it all the way back around.

But again, I think everything everybody is saying is more well founded.

And I'm certainly on team movies should earn their runtime.

This was a particularly tender piece of meat where the fatty stuff I saw justification for maybe more than I would have otherwise.

More than we will perhaps in the Dirtier Dozen or whatever the.

Those sequels are called when we do those.

Oh, you don't think those made for TV movies are going to be as good as this one as Robert Alrich is.

Listen, I.

I yield my time, counselor.

Jason, how does any of that sound to you?

You know, you yield your time to the single most important part of this podcast, the Squirty Dozen.

Yikes.

I'm quitting this podcast.

Fuck that shit.

Can we.

What if we just stopped and this episode was 30 minutes long?

What if we did do that?

We could all.

That's fine.

Cody.

I do appreciate.

I'm glad that we have, like, some representation of both sides of the.

Like, should this movie be trimmed?

Is it too fatty or.

Jason likes both sides representation.

Big surprise.

I'm just more in touch with the lives of centrists than Harry is.

Like, I appreciate that there is discourse in our episode about it.

I think that, like, very specifically, and I don't know if I can like, defend it as a negative of the movie or my negative opinion of it, but it really is just that that training sequence with.

With it's some cool Dash breed.

Dashiell Breed or whatever his name is.

Robert Ryan's character.

Like, the whole mock war exercise between them comes at a point when you expect it to transition to the third act climax and instead there's conflict instead.

You know, the sort of like, fraternity house games that they got into at the other camp come back to bite them and their mission's almost canceled.

And it's like, rather than being proven against, like, you've gone this far.

I just think there's a very clean.

You remove that and your writing is.

Ernest Borg9 is convinced to send them on the mission because you've invested so much time in them.

Now they are not a liability and I will quit if they fail.

Like, if that was the justification, if that was the writing.

But I think it's just a smarter, quicker, you know, more streamlined, easier to, like, process and more fun way to get to this because we've done a lot of the character building, a lot of the, you know, like, we don't.

I guess I just didn't see in that exercise sequence anything that told me like, oh, yeah, this is this their symbol?

This was their proving ground that they can really do this mission that I didn't already get prior to that.

It felt like a padding out.

It felt like we didn't really need that scene.

I do get, like, I'm very much on team this.

This Movie needs all of that time with those characters, even if we're not gonna, like, really understand all of them or, you know, get to know all of them or even, like, remember their names.

When was it Jimenez who died in the trees?

When he died in the trees, I had to think, which terrible disrespect to Jimenez.

Did you know that?

That's because that guy was an actual musician and he left the shoot to do a music gig, allegedly.

That's because he's the guy who plays guitar, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And apparently that's why they killed him off that early.

They were just like, well, he's not going to be around to shoot, so we got to kill him off off screen, which is hilarious.

They couldn't have shown, like, a body and the.

You know what I mean?

Like.

Morphly in the background.

I just think that that segment.

Strung up by his guitar.

Sorry.

I think that there's.

It's very easy to lift that segment out of the movie.

I like.

I don't know that it would take away from other parts of the movie that we felt better about.

Like, Harry and I are talking about, there's, you know, that sort of like.

Like, the.

The people who are actually sent to war and the sort of value of that human life and the sort of game that is that people are set against when they are in this military structure.

Harry, does that sort of, like, feed into any of your feelings about.

I was just gonna play devil's advocate about that segment because like I already said, and I do agree with you, Jason, I kind of think, like, that.

I think that maybe the biggest problem with the.

The segment we're talking about is that it's quite long and, like, very disconnected from the rest of the movie, and somewhat conspicuously so.

I think you could lift it out.

That being said, I think that it is important to set up this conflict between.

It's literally the 101st Airborne Division, which is, I believe, the division from Band of Brothers.

Like, they are literally, like, maybe the most prestigious division in World War II history versus this Dirty Dozen.

Because, like, I think that that does represent the themes that we're getting at in this movie.

The movie, right.

Which is this idea that, like, the mil.

The apparatus of the US Military is essentially a PR apparatus.

Right.

It is this idea that, like, we are not only fighting a war, we are selling the.

I like the notion of a war to the American public and to the world at large and kind of to history writ large.

Right.

It's this idea that.

That the American Military is representative of something.

It's representative of an ideology and a approach to combat and in approach to what is right and what is wrong.

And that dialectically, when a war is won, it means that this approach was superior to the other approach.

Right?

Like the Americans landing in D day and defeating the Nazis and eventually taking Berlin is not just a military operation, it is a dialectical, like PR operation, right?

We are, we are meant to show that the ideology of America is like superior to the ideology of the Nazis, right?

This is something that we continue to buy and you know, I mean in this one instance, because I think it's true, right?

Like, I think World War II is maybe the one time when we had a pretty clear dialectical superiority.

Well, but, but I, and I think that that's what's so important about this movie.

Complicating, right, Is that Even World War II, a movie that are like a war that we still think about as the quote unquote, good one, was in reality fought by criminals and desperate men who were not.

Who were dirty, right?

Who fought dirty, played dirty, like had like complicated backstories, were not the sort of clean cut vision of American superiority.

They weren't, they literally weren't the 101st Airborne from band of Brothers, right?

So like facing them against Breed's Men is a way to like, like maybe tarnish.

I think it's really perfect legacy.

Not tarnished necessarily, but complicate, right?

It's the idea that like this is, this is what war actually looks like.

This is what the people who are fighting war, they were human beings, right?

They were, they were complicated, often deeply controversial, problematic figures fighting in a problematic, controversial way.

I mean, like, I think it's really important, for instance, how horrifying the way that they kill the Nazis at the end of this movie is, right?

It's the sort of thing where like, even though these people are Nazis and it feels good to see them get it, Aldrich makes a point of like, okay, like these people are stuck in a tunnel underground.

We're going to make sure we show the Dirty Dozen covering them with gasoline and then throwing grenades down into their little exhaust ports.

We're going to make sure we show a bunch of horrified human beings like screaming and trying to get the grenades out of there, right?

It's like it's.

Even though these are Nazis, like it's, it's stomach church hurting.

I like, I bet that that maybe for you.

Yeah, that sequence is a probably a big part of why this movie was controversial when it came out.

Because it was like, hey man, like, like even if they're Nazis, like the act of like mass murdering human beings is a disgusting thing.

It's a very scary thing.

And the act of warfare is a disgusting thing, right?

Like it's, it's very similar to like Spielberg's D Day landing in Private Ryan, right?

Where like the, the first, first sequence in Private Ryan is D Day, which is a unbelievable triumph of the American military.

And the whole point of that sequence in that movie is that it was terrible, right?

It was like the, the boats opened up and people got like sawn in half by machine gun fire and, and it was just like, you know, there's that one sequence of the guy like on the beach looking for his arm after it had been cut off.

And I, I really think that that's a big part of this movie.

Movie is, is to be like, hey man, like, remember, like we understand the necessity of PR as a big part of the war, right?

You know, when you got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

Famous line from this movie.

But like, don't forget that, like that's not actually what warfare is.

And like that's not actually how wars are fought in one.

They're fought in one by, by people doing terrible things to one another.

And these people are often not the heroes that we read about in history, history books.

And I, I do think that there is a very important anti authoritarian message to be found in that.

Do I think that, that this movie is maybe like only halfway there because it is so interested in also being a relatively uncomplicated action movie where we root for the heroes?

Yes, but I, I don't think I can erase either aspect.

Right.

Like this is a movie that begins, literally the first scene is Lee Marvin witnessing a very young man be hanged for insubordination within the military.

Right.

This is a movie where in the middle of the operation, Maggot becomes a serial killer and needs to be killed by his own troops.

Right.

It is like those things are not overlooked by this movie.

This movie is not interested in sanitizing the literal Dirty Dozen, right?

It's, it's interested in making sure you understand that they were dirty and that the dirtiness is part and parcel with who they were.

And it doesn't erase the heroic acts that they did.

I think like both of these things have to live together in this movie in a really important, important way.

Yeah.

Speaking of the intro, the beginning sequence with Lee Marvin, I did not know with Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine and a death by hanging of one of the.

I guess they never really go into what the fella did.

Yeah, he's just a sad young dude and he's like, I didn't mean to do it.

And he looks like he's like, 14.

And they.

Yeah.

And like, I think that is.

There are two main, like, big thematic things.

I already talked about how I think the resistance to authority is what binds them together.

And that's like, one of the main themes that the movie tries to touch at while balancing it against this big, like, bombastic the glory of murdering a bunch of Nazis type movie.

And it is that the question it asks very plainly and in the script of, like, the value of human life.

And it draws this line between characters very clearly and distinctly at the beginning, with Lee Marvin and Ernest Borgdine having very different reactions to.

And I guess the rest of the military establishment that he's operating under having very different reactions to this death by hanging that he witnesses at the beginning.

They don't rem his name.

Ernest Borgnine even jokes about, like, I can think of a lot of people who deserve that kind of thing.

And there's this, like, extended intentionally.

Like, there's just editing of, like, cut, cut, cut to every man in the room while he's just laughing.

He's just doing his toothy.

His toothy cat's giant tombstone molars really good.

And it's very, like, very openly cynical about that.

And I think that's tying in, Harry, to what you were saying about, like.

Like the sort of assumptions that we make through movies.

Like, you know, maybe movies prior to this or movies about World War II where it was like, it was all glory.

Every man knew his mission and every.

Every man was.

Was.

You know, even if he wasn't at the top of his game, he had the love of his country and the respect of his people behind him.

And this, of course, complicates that a little bit.

I like the idea.

There's this idea that the.

You know, that the top brass represents the pinnacle of.

Right.

That idea in that they are.

They are great heroic figures who have the best interests in.

In mind of both their country and their soldiers.

And, like, this movie is all about, like.

The last line of the movie is killing generals.

Could get to be a habit with me.

Right.

And Bronson is talking about the American military because he's sort of like, well, all of these generals are kind of the same for a guy like me.

Like, they're all interested in, like, getting promoted in On My Back and On My Corpse.

Preferably right.

I still think that that, like, inherent.

If we're putting them into two camps, if we're putting Borgnine and the military establishment, breed, etc.

On in one camp of, like, has little respect for human life, has, like, a great desire to see this mission completed at the expense of 12 men's lives.

Likely it only ends up costing them 11.

So they got a deal on that.

But at the expense of 12 men's lives.

And.

And Lee Marvin seeing, like, actually, I need to build these men into.

Into, like, a group, into people.

I need to see the inherent humanity of them all.

I need to leverage that.

I need to show them that I need to, like, enforce a degree of discipline.

I think that.

I don't know if the movie, like you were saying here, I don't know if the movie, like, quite gets there or really is intentional about this, but I could not shake the idea that if it's their resistance to authority, that he's identifying among all of these men.

They're, like, sort of wildness, they're sort of untameability that he's seeing as, like, that is exactly how I can point them in the right direction, wind them up and set them going.

And even if he does have, like, a genuine, we'll say, respect or even love for them, like, if he cares about them truly in a way that Borgnine and the rest of the men and the rest of the military establishment don't quite like, he is still leveraging that.

You're exercising my major problem with this movie very, very well.

And, like, I kind of like that in a cynical, like, if this were made by Sam PECKINPAH in the 70s, I think we would get this more deliberately on screen.

That's exactly right.

With a few more like, teeth gritting and Lee Marvin, like, you know, maybe being portrayed as a bad guy at most of the time.

But here's the thing, just to close off, just to close up the idea real quick.

Sorry, go ahead.

It's okay that Lee Marvin is still leveraging that, like, you know, he's.

He's still pulling the strings, so to speak, in a way that would directly undercut the sort of altruisticness, the sort of like.

Like the one who cares, the good guy Persona that he is ultimately granted in the movie by, like, pulling these strings, by getting.

By manipulating them in a way.

And I know he's on screen, I know that it's there, but he is.

He is positioned as.

In the trenches with the men.

He is positioned as one of them.

He Sort of learns a little bit about them.

Excuse me, from them, about himself and, you know, vice versa.

And then it kind of all tumbles to an end when all those, you know, everything goes wrong at the castle party and things that the.

What is it?

The chalet.

And things, you know, ultimately fall apart.

And he is sort of given.

He kind of has to stick his nose in it by sending families a message about how they all died in the line of duty, continuing that myth of, like, actually, yes, they did earn their place.

They were.

They were killed in the line in the act of duty.

They were.

You know, they were honorable men sort of thing.

They're.

They're redeemed while he has to sit and stew with it, as does Vladislav.

And, I don't know, it's just like a strange feeling at the very end that it left me with.

And I couldn't shake that.

Like, these two things that the.

In his inherent respect for human life and what it means for them and the shape of their group, and he's actually still not doing a genuinely, truly altruistic thing to them.

That felt like something I was reading into the movie, but something I couldn't let go of either while I was watching.

Yeah, it's not even.

You don't even necessarily have to sacrifice the idea that Lee Marvin thinks he's a good guy and, like, does genuinely love these guys.

I'm sorry.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna do some rewriting of a very old movie now.

But, like, here's what you do.

First of all, it doesn't make any sense that Lee Marvin goes with them to the final mission.

Would never happen.

He's their commanding officer.

Like, what are you talking about?

Like, there maybe there even could have been a scene where, like, he wants to go with them.

And then Ernest Borgnine or whoever is like, what do you mean?

Like, you're actually valuable to this military operation, like Tim.

But also.

Also the sergeant.

Right?

It doesn't make any sense.

Why would they go along?

It makes no sense, Sergeant.

I'd be like, are you kidding me?

That doesn't.

It doesn't make any sense.

I'll be on the toilet cleaning duty.

Right.

Exactly.

Don't.

Do we still have any of those seven broads left?

But genuinely very important and stupid, in my opinion.

And very Hollywood that Lee Marvin goes with them in the first place.

It's like, really?

And then the.

The utter straining of credulity that, like, Vladislav and Lee Marvin would be in the same bed next to each other as if they're equals at the end of this movie, just to like, further set up that, like, oh, no, like, Lee Marvin wasn't so different.

He was in the with them.

It's like the way this movie ends is Vladislav goes back to prison and Lee Marvin gets promoted.

Right?

That's what happens here.

And like, you could show a scene where, like, they pin a medal on Lee Marvin and they're like, great job.

Like, you're an asset to this country.

And then he gets promoted like big boss at the end of Metal Gear Solid three.

And he can look upset about it, right?

But like, the, the idea that it's like, oh yeah, Lee Marvin was in it just as much as any of them.

Him, I like, I think that there is something you could maybe arguably read into that.

Like, of course Lee Marvin survived, right, when 11 of the 12 didn't.

But, like, that seems the movie portrays that as if that was just the cork of the battlefield, right?

Like that, like it was a, it was a total coincidence that the commanding officer survived and a bunch of his soldiers didn't, when, of course it wasn't.

Right?

Like, because of course.

Well, yeah, the commanding officer is the one who makes it because he's the one who's valuable, who gets to live on.

On because, well, and Vladislav was the one who had previous military experience.

Like, you can explain it away with elements of the plot, but it still does, like, I just like, sort of glorious.

Such a weird, like.

And again, it is toward this, this, like this, this point that the movie is sort of like, you know, it, it has conflicting allegiances, right?

Because like, again, in my opinion, weird as it is, like that final segment where they said they gave their lives in the line of duty and we get the headshots of every one of the Dirty Dozen while the credits play is meant to be genuine, right?

Like, I think we're supposed to be like, damn, like, those guys were heroes after all.

And like, what an amazing thing they did.

And it's like, yes, like, they were heroes.

But, like, this should be a very cynical beat, right?

This should be a beat that like, these people were fed into a machine that was designed to use them as ammunition to kill other people.

Right?

Like, like, I think that's my read on the end.

I don't know.

Is that not your read on the end?

No, because one of one guy guy lives, brother.

Yeah, but like, talking about a good job they did, I, I just, I.

I, I think the and then they.

Like that plays almost comedically.

I, I'm I'm with Aaron I.

In that I read it as, like, it's.

It's something they would, you know.

Yeah.

Like, they.

They would take like a couple scenes to like, linger on.

Just like, what the sad irony that, like, now we have to go back.

Instead, it almost plays like a punchline because it happens.

Reward is that he goes back into the army.

No, I mean, I said that, right?

Like.

Like, killing generals is going to get to be a habit with me.

Like I said, it.

It.

But like, it's still.

I.

I just think that the Lee Marvin of it is a real problem for this movie because it is this sort of idea that, like, oh, he's a good man who is in the military and like, we, you know, like, he can actually transcend and like, make the two meet, you know, and it's sort of like, I.

I think that this movie would be better off if it problematized that a little bit.

That being said, you're.

You're not wrong.

Like, I.

I think that this movie is largely successful at everything that we've been talking about.

Right.

This idea that, like, it.

This thing that was done to these people is unfair and like, they're the actual heroes who won the war.

And we should consider that and maybe upend our uncomplicated understanding of what the World War II was and what it meant.

Right.

I.

I think that, like, this movie is.

Is largely successful at that.

Like I said.

I just think that there are.

There are genre trappings that frustrate me about it.

Speaking of, I guess it's not much of a genre trapping because I do feel like this is a little bit of a fly in the ointment.

Maggot himself.

I, like there's a lot more to talk about in the movie, but I think Maggot, it was a big part of everybody's viewing experience of this movie.

And it's one that I don't think is really discussed too much as part of his.

As part of its legacy.

Like, of course he is.

There's a famous story linked on Wikipedia of Jack Palance originally being cast as that character and him dropping out because the character was not, like, redeemed by the end.

He's racist.

He's openly, you know, like, he was convicted of rape and murder of at least one woman.

I'm forgetting my specific plot details.

But then, of course, comes to sort of betray the group by murdering a woman in the chalet, by opening fire on his own men, by being like an uncontainable wild person in a way that we thought that everybody was.

And there's no redemption arc for him.

And I think at least my reaction to it, maybe on second thought, I can find more there, but my first reaction to it was like, why the fuck is he here?

Why are we going out on a limb so far for this guy?

We seem to be taunting him.

Even, like, that scene with all the women that they bring in to, like, relax the group or whatever in a little bit of a.

Maybe we'll say 20, 25, problematic way.

He is, like, still on station guard to just watch, and he calls them sadists for it.

And, like, there's no scene where we get to see him moving toward that sort of redemption.

The sort of growing with the team thing.

He's just part of the team when it's.

And.

And like a calm, quiet presence when he doesn't need to be a rat bastard and a total rat.

Like the worst part of the movie when he's visible.

And I just left.

I left the movie.

I've come to, like, come up with my own takes about it, but I left the movie wondering, why the hell is he here?

Why is he still on the team as of the mission happening?

Why couldn't he get caught up in a tree and fucking gutted by a branch?

Oh, I mean, I guess I'm just wondering what, like, group here feels about why he was there.

I really like his storyline in this, including his betrayal.

I just think, again, not to.

Not to play the same card again, right?

But, like, I think it's a problem that, like, I think he's Lee Marvin's fatal flaw in this movie, right?

There is a conversation with he and the sergeant where the sergeant is like, hey, man, like, most of these guys turned out all right, but Maggot is a serial killer of women who is obsessed with God.

We got to get him the.

Out of this unit.

It's kind of to be bad.

And Lee Marvin is like, nah, man, I'm taking them all.

Like, like, the.

The military wants all of these guys.

It's almost.

He almost treats it as pr.

He's like, I'm going to look so good when I get all of these guys reformed and into the army.

Then I'm going with this.

And the sergeant is like, I guess, whatever you say, man.

And then we cut to, right?

Almost like.

Like in an hour and a half later, Maggot sees a woman and becomes a serial killer who fires on his own team, right?

And like, really, really up the planet, man, in a big way.

And it's Sort of like, clearly the ideal is that, like, Lee Marvin weirdly conflated all of these men because he saw them all as the same thing, right?

Which is this sort of, like, flawed putty in his hands to be shaped and in almost an opportunity for him, as an ambitious officer, to demonstrate his abilities.

And it's sort of like, well, maybe if you had actually, like, paid more attention to, like, their individual personalities, like, you would have cut Maggot out of the team.

Because it literally, like, early in the first act, we cut straight from, like, the black guy is like, yeah, a couple of officers jumped me in the night and tried to castrate me.

And so I fought back, and that's why I'm on death row.

And they've got all these legitimate reasons.

Yeah.

And.

And Lee Marvin is like, wow, yeah, it sounds like you got a pretty good reason for being in death row.

Welcome to my army, son.

And then we cut to literally Maggot being like, well, see, what happens is God tells me to.

To murder women, and I have to listen to God because I'm his chosen soldier.

So when I see a woman, I am going to kill her.

And Lee Marvin's like, like, you're up.

Welcome to my army, son.

It's like, yeah, you've got a cut, sir.

What?

Like, what are you doing?

Like, I.

I just, like, I.

I think that again, like, maybe the movie should have made a bigger deal out of the fact that, like, Lee Marvin made a very big, like, like, damning mistake there by allowing.

By not screening Maggot.

Right.

But.

But again, like, this movie's not really interested in that critique and to the point where, like, you know, like, I think this was my letterbox review, but, like, like, at the end, when it says, like, they gave their lives in the line of duty, and then we get these, like, these glamour shots of all of the Dirty Dozen.

Maggot is among them.

And it's like, he didn't give his life in the line of duty.

He was shot by his own men because he was attacking civilians.

Who are you sending that letter to?

Who gets the Purple Heart that he earned?

You know, like, it's like state corrections.

Officer who previously pretending as the last note of this movie that Megan Maggot was equivalent to the other soldiers in this army.

He clearly was.

Wasn't.

Like, that's crazy to me.

But.

But, you know, I mean, again, I.

I just.

Like, that is the sort of complicating factor that I would have liked to have seen more explored in this movie.

And instead it's sort of like, well, when you.

When you work with criminals, you're going to get one bad one.

And it's just sort of treated as like, an interesting complicating factor instead of something that has thematic relevance, which I think it does.

Right.

And I think it should have.

But I just think it's sort of a missed opportunity personal.

What did you guys think about Maggot and his.

His contributions to this narrative?

I'll jump in with my thoughts.

I think I'm aligned with you where I do feel like it is only to exemplify Reisman's hubris of, like, I'm going to have this whole, like, I got 11 guys, but if I had 12, I could call it a dirty dozen.

Like, not actually.

Well, I feel like he does have this.

This.

No, I mean, he does specifically say, right?

Like, he's like, if the army wants all of these guys going, all of these guys are going to go.

And like, the.

The unspoken thing there is that, like, well, like, I have to fulfill this mission to the letter to show off a little bit.

Right?

Yeah, I.

If I think more about it than the movie really shows me.

I mean, classic Trilove ness.

But I do, like, I'm able to see in there and in the.

Even those final scenes of like, that sort of like, ironic look that Lee Marvin gives to Charles Bronson at the.

Of the end.

And like, that sort of, we'll say, not completely cleanly resolved, at least to some of us on the podcast.

Ending I do see baked into that, like, his regret over it putting Maggot on the team.

Over, like, how, like, it would have.

The plan.

The plan, presumably, would have gone a lot better.

One, had Jimenez not had a gig that night, and two, had Telly Savalas not been part of the team.

I did feel better.

Excuse me.

My.

Of course, first reaction to it and after the movie was like, you know, where'd that fuck that guy come from?

Why do we even leave him in the movie?

Why did Lee Marvin put him there?

Of course, coming back to, like, the idea of hubris makes it a little more justified, even if the movie doesn't really bear it out.

But knowing that Jack Palance, another actor of the time, dropped the part specifically because they would not rewrite it such to, like, redeem him.

God damn right, right.

Well, the direct quote, and I will censor myself because I.

There are some terms that I can't use from the 60s that he uses to describe the part.

But he said, like, that he felt like he does not think pictures are needed to show how nasty the whites are to black people, quote, unquote, you know, amended.

But like that notion of somebody rejecting the character because he's not shown to be like a redeemed white guy who was a bad guy who can be changed to love black people again.

And that's not even like the predominant feature of his character.

He of course does have many prejudices.

Maggot.

But what.

But like the leading one, the one that does set him against the team, the one that makes him the biggest liability is his like murderous, you know, pillaging intent and nature and like just things that they cannot, if you can fix, you cannot fix in like a three month training program in the army with a bunch of other hoorah, testosterone fueled men.

I just like it.

It seems illogical and I'm trying not to apply like logic to a movie.

But even in that emotional arc of what if, like, what if he's just there to exemplify Lee Marvin's hubris, I still found it like really hard to swallow in that respect.

I didn't feel like he's again, seeing him at the end in like the, you know, previously seen on montage of their faces swiping in and swapping out did not feel that was earned.

It just feels like a, like a big yucky down.

As my friend Cody says, nah, fuck that guy, you know?

Like, do I think it'd be a more palatable, pleasant movie without him in it?

Absolutely.

Do I feel like it's necessary to like drive home the message that Lee Marvin overstretched his, his capabilities?

No, not quite.

So.

Yeah, no, six of one, so to speak.

I really like him in this movie.

Like I said, I think it's important that Maggots in this movie.

I just think that like the emphasis is on the wrong syllable, so to speak.

But that being said, I, I also think there is something else going on here, right, which is that Robert Jefferson, Jim Brown's character, the the only black member of the Dirty Dozen is the guy who like interactions with Maggot.

They get into a fight after Maggot calls him the Nword, right?

And again Lee Marvin dismisses that, right?

Like there, there is a big fight that breaks out and Lee Marvin makes a funny joke to his sergeant about how they're arguing about like dining arrangements rather than being like, oh well, Maggot is a huge racist who called one of his fellow soldiers the N word and started a big fight about it.

I like Jim Brown.

Robert Jefferson is also the, the member of the team that kills Maggot.

Right.

He is the member who sticks to the plan, sees Maggot kill the woman, and then finally fires upon and defeats Maggot.

Right.

I think it's kind of important that it was the black guy, Right.

Who.

Who did that in the sort of, like, same history reclamation sense.

I just think that that's a little bit blunt want.

Right.

As a side plot within this movie.

And I think that, like, the larger idea that Maggot shouldn't have never have been in the unit in the first place and that is the fault of his superior officer is something that is entirely overlooked in this movie.

Despite the fact that, like, it is almost used in, like, the first act.

It's set up and it never really pays off.

You know, there's that.

So.

So again, it's.

It's emblematic of how I feel about this movie at large, which is that, like, I think it's largely successful.

There are just some things I would have done differently.

Yeah.

Maybe if David Ayer had gotten his hands on the remake, if he had, like, made it by now, maybe he.

Would have brought those things to the fort.

Yeah.

I mean, what we need to do is give Ayer a chance.

I think that does exhaust my main talking points.

If everybody else is ready for the end segments, I will count down.

Three, two, one.

Real quick.

That's what we call the junk drawer is open for your thoughts.

That didn't fit in the main conversation.

I saw Aaron's hand for first, so he wins.

Ooh, thank you, Jason.

Eat Cody.

I think that.

Good thing to point out.

I was talking with Jason about this while watching this, one of the best movie posters of all time.

Quite easily one of the most influential.

Dude, it's so cool.

Really sick.

I do think, and I said this to Jason, I do think that the only movie poster in this style that I like more is Where Eagles Dare there.

Which is just the number one sickest, maybe the number one movie poster of all time with the guys climbing on the cable car when you get it.

It's also kind of a misfits poster, which is my favorite part of it.

I really.

I want to direct the listener to look at your podcast app.

If it supports embedded images.

I will embed it as an image here for this chapter.

Please do check it out.

He's not kidding.

It's.

It's raw as hell.

This poster for where it's very raw.

And.

Well, wait, you're gonna put the.

You're gonna put the picture of where Eagles Dare poster Is the podcast image?

No, no, I don't know if my.

Podcast app does that.

Podcast newbie.

I'm sorry if podcast addict does that.

Anyway, if you're driving right now, open up your phone.

Do not stop, do not slow down.

Do not look at the picture on your phone.

It's very important.

You gotta.

You gotta take a screenshot and zoom in to see.

I forget which character it is, but he's doing like a hand over hand climb on the skylight.

It's so cool.

Anyway, was that your only junk drawer?

Thought.

I mean, that is a sick junk.

No, it's.

Yeah, it's just the poster's sick, dude.

All right, nice.

Wanted to call out some things that played really well for the audience that I was with at the trial on some things that, I mean, not just like funny moments, but there's a good amount of that as well.

The, the word association bit with, with Vladisla, Charles Bronson, that seemed just like him saying a term.

And then Bronson.

Well, I'm thinking about baseball now.

Just like that whole.

Dude, that scene is incredible.

Bronson really, really fucking crushes that.

It's so funny.

He does.

So that played excellently.

The whole.

I'm just using actor names and I don't necessarily want to lean on that Sutherland, Pinkley's like inspection of that platoon or whatever.

Him just sort of like dicking around.

That played extremely well for myself included.

And then the other thing, the.

During the third act and I forget who it was that was on the, the roof of the fucking palace or whatever, but.

Oh, who gets his footsteps?

Duck.

Yeah, the.

When his foot went through the roof, everybody jumped like, there's like, like some gasps and like everybody had.

And I think I, I'm sure I did too.

But like.

And because of the, the tent, the tension in the situation, and probably also the, the sound editing for that transition specifically, that played awesomely.

The entire.

It got a reaction from the entire thing.

I remember that specifically happening when I said saw it two years ago as well.

That it's just such a crazy moment.

In general.

That last, that last set piece is a masterpiece of like tension ratcheting, I think.

Oh, yeah, Yep, yep, totally.

That was it.

Those are, those are the big three.

I guess my only thing is just, you know, grizzly Greek John Cassavetes corner.

It is hilarious the extent to which he is always just like when he appears in a movie.

It's like you can feel the temperature drop in the room.

It's like that is like the.

A human snake that Guy.

I, I love every scene he's in where it' just like.

And like that character is already supposed to be kind of the slimiest member of the team.

And like Cassavete is just playing huge to the rafters and just like so scary.

Like, like what is this guy up to?

Like he almost, almost out.

Maggots.

Maggot.

I will, I will say it's very funny and this, it feels like I'm on a high.

The guy who's supposed to be like the wild card, the untamable one who's most vividly, invisibly, that is a Greek guy.

Only to be outdone by another Greek guy, by a worse Greek guy.

Like the two worst members of this team.

Greek guys.

Just, just, I'm just saying my only juncture thought is there's this point where I love noticing this because it's like, it's like spoon feeding a baby.

And I feel really gratified to be the baby in those cases right after they decide and it is Franco John Cassavetes who decides that he's not going to take it anymore.

He's not going to shave with cold water and it's robbed from them.

They're not going to be, you know, they're not going to get soap or shaving equipment at all.

And then the next scene, once they've sort of started to bind together, once they have all that, you know, corn starch that's going to make them a little bit thicker as a group.

Immediately the next scene, they are like lined up in this wide shot of the dozen men separated from the generals from like the commanding officers by like a huge tree branch that's just cutting the frame in half.

I don't know, it's, it's again it's baby food to a baby.

But I just love seeing that like immediately once they've made it text that the characters are starting to come together and form as a group against their like objects of authority, against their officers.

Then the film starts to reflect that like with the blocking and staging and shot composition.

It, it just felt like crack.

Of course that's minute 35 of a two hour 30 minute movie.

And I don't know that it gets much better than that, but it does start to change the tone of that, of that of the movie from that point.

Just 1960s corner too.

I think this movie holds up really well in terms of its visuals in all but like two instances.

One, it's so funny to me and I know this would be impossible but like the fact that like airborne infiltration is so important to the plan here and such a big part of the.

Of the.

The movie that like, they're learning how to drop from an airplane.

And then like, the one we see a single shot of like, extreme distance parachutes opening.

And it's so clear that, like, they couldn't set anything up with like, just imagine like in.

In 2025 if.

If like you set up a parachuting movie and parachuting wasn't like a gigantic part of the movie.

It's just one of those, like, total sensibility shifts.

And then the other thing, it's so funny that, like, this movie was considered.

Considered almost too violent, that it was controversial when, like, everybody gets shot and no matter how many times or where they're shot, they do the exact same 1960s thing where they're.

They all of a sudden have really good posture, they stiffen up and they put their two hands up in the air and then they drop to the ground.

It's like the most comical, like, acting of getting shot of all time.

And the idea that that would be scary to people is so funny to my, like, brain rot.

2025.

Like, used to seeing just like movies where people get torn apart.

Right.

It's just funny that.

That how things change.

Funny how things change where you can go on the Internet and see a Nazi die in real time.

Now today we have another segment in this show.

I've got to close up the junk drawer first.

Kapowi.

Another segment where I ask the group if they can remember other movies we've covered from the same year that this one released.

1967 is when the Dirty doesn't release.

So this is going to be to all the loves we've tried before for 19.

1967.

We're releasing episode 349 in our numbered episodes anyway.

And.

And I want to see if of the preceding 348, if you can remember what other movies we covered from 1967.

I'll just wait for hands to go up.

I won't nominate.

Could we get a.

Two films.

Two films.

Okay.

That was what I was gonna ask.

It is a very small set.

We've covered a lot of 70s movies.

Increasing list of 80s movies.

60s are still starting to fill in for us.

So.

So, 1967.

Any guesses from Cody?

I think it's my only guess, but I believe our episode for the Graduate really did numbers right.

That's.

Yeah, you can just take that one to the bank for sure.

Yep.

I've got a Cha Ching sound effect.

For that.

What?

All right, fair enough.

No, no, just because, you know, we get new episodes, new listeners.

Every episode.

We're growing Baby Boy podcast cast.

We've never covered the Graduate.

Maybe someday, maybe if.

John, can you stop using, like, Baby Boy?

Just like little.

But this is the Dirty Dozen.

This is the roughest, man.

Thank you for asking.

I actually did record a direct.

I.

I did direct record a direct response to that question, and I put it in the soundboard.

Any other guesses for 1967?

Pitfall was earlier, but that sounds semi.

Right.

Fight, Pitfall, Teshigahara, Woman in the dude.

Oh, no, we never covered Pitfall.

Oh, we just saw the face of another.

But we did not actually cover that.

Okay, sorry, I don't.

Let me.

You know, you've both guessed.

Aaron, wager any guests, and then I'll give a clue.

I.

So I.

I had guessed one of the.

Well, I had internally guessed one of the Italian, you know, Polizio Teshi films, but I don't think it's.

Any of the.

Those Confessions of a police captain was 71, so I don't know.

Yeah, might.

You know, one of those.

Did you remember that or did you look it up?

Are you using your Googles and not just.

I literally did just use my Googles.

I do not care about or respect this bit, but has never given that disclaimer.

I will not do that for Cody's noties because that is an honorable game.

Like Major Rice, I'm fomenting a distrust of authority among you so that I can more easily, easily manipulate you as a group toward the object of my authority.

So if I.

If I looked it up and it was correct and then I said it, I would say that when I.

When I said it.

So to be honest, but that's.

I think what Aaron is saying is that we have to put an asterisk next to all of his Cody's noties victories.

Up to the Cody's noties.

No, but if you want to.

If you want to put an asterisk next to my.

To all the loves we've tried before, uh, victories.

Go.

Go right.

Right ahead.

I don't have many of those, so no worries.

So I will say your clue for one of these films is Aaron is incredibly, seethingly wrong about this movie and its place in the creation.

Yes, It's Playtime, episode 120From May of 2021 on Playtime, the Jacques Tati film.

For what it's worth.

One of his top three Cody got it.

I'm putting that in my notes, Cody got it.

And there's one more.

It was not one that we actually saw at the trial on it was during the time of Corona we called it.

I'm surprised we picked a movie from that long ago.

Good job.

What would.

Yeah.

Honestly, pat ourselves on the back.

What flavor of genre we kicking around in?

Broadly Yakuza.

Oh, occult is my passport.

A culture is my passport indeed.

I was going my next guess my next clue was be going to to be cheeks.

Yeah, Cheeks would have given it away.

But I like sure, maybe yes.

Episode 12 of our trial of in the Time of Corona series From June of 2020, just a few months after the devastating pandemic, which I'm still feeling the after effects of this week.

A cult is my passport from 1967.

Well, that's the only two films we've covered from 1967.

So John, get your butt in gear.

I know that you're really averse to movies older than like 10 or 15 years, but you've really, really got to get some of those movies playing at the trial line from the 60s until then.

Then I will add this one to the list.

We have now covered three films from the 1960.

From the year 1967 and we have almost finished this episode.

But we have one final segment which.

Harry, you know what, you're going to count us in for this one.

I am indeed, Jason.

It is the segment we like to call Cody's Noties.

Cody's Noties.

Well, for a little change of pace, Harry's going to count us into this one.

That's.

That's amazing.

Well, thank you.

That introduction was actually my favorite divisional maneuver.

Today we will participate in something I like to call the Birdie dozen.

The Birdie dozen.

Now, we're not literally talking about one dozen birds, but we will be hashing out what.

What different groups of birds are called.

I've got some birds.

I'm going to list them one at a time, going to give you some choices and then y' all will tell me which option you believe is the appropriately the corresponding term for each bird.

It's been a while since we've done something that is aided by, you know, better aided by randomized answering order.

So we'll have the.

The wheel for this.

The person with the most points at the end will win.

Trivia Mafia rules do apply for this one, so use your noodles, not your Googles.

As an example, if I were to, I'll say, you know, what's a group of crows called?

Is it a.

Is it a Cherry bomb.

Is it a galaxy or is it a murder?

Oh, my.

Everybody would, of course, say cherry bomb.

It's a cherry bomb of CRO.

No, it's a murder, of course.

Just wanted to throw that out as an example.

Okay, so settling in, our first group of birds.

A group of flamingos.

A group of flamingos.

What's a group of flamingos called?

Is it a charm, a flamboyance, or a party?

And I'll.

We'll answer.

I'll randomize that order.

All right.

And the furniture.

Yep.

It's.

I don't know.

It's been a while, and it did land on Harry first.

So, Harry, what is your.

What is your guess?

It's a flamboyance of flamingos.

Cody.

All right, he sounds pretty confident.

Are we going to bask in his confidence and use that for our own gains, Aaron, or are we?

I am also doing flamboyants.

There's.

There's also a 0% chance that Harry has not written or blogged about these for a previous job.

This is where I bust out my bird doll.

No way.

I don't know how much bird watching would allow him to see flamingos particularly, but, you know, it, you know, might have come up at some point.

I also have to shout out Aaron for saying, I am also doing flamboyance in the flattest possible tone.

Really good bit there.

I'm also doing flamboyance up there with the time we clipped him.

Sorry for any siren noise in the background.

The time.

I think we did a Mary kill noties, like, years and years ago.

And Aaron said something to the effect of, I want to fuck Totoro.

I want to fuck Todoro.

I want to fuck Totoro.

That's one of my favorite clips from this podcast.

Extremely good.

Jason, do you want to tether yourself to these buffoons, or do you want to forge your own path?

I'm going to forge my own path.

And I remember distinctly thinking, I'm going to pick that first one, but I've already forgotten what the word was.

What was it?

So the options were charm, flamboyance, and party.

I'm going to go for it is a charm.

Charm of flamingos.

I.

You know, I.

I also believe, based on Aaron's guessing criteria, that Harry was probably right, but I would feel like a real rube if I just went 3 for 3 on that one.

Hey, fair enough.

And I hope you don't feel like rube starting the game with a deficit, because flamboyance is indeed the right pick.

I Will say we have six of these instead of the usual five.

I had a lot of fun looking into these.

We'll have six, so very much.

Shut the up.

Yeah, relax, relax.

But a charm is what we refer to a group of finches.

A charm of finches.

And a party is what we call a group of blue jays.

A party of blue jays.

Isn't that fun?

And this MF podcast, hey, I figured that would be the one that more people knew compared to the rest.

So hopefully we'll see a ramp up in.

In difficulty.

But hey, you know, if anybody here has.

Has written, written up, you know, done essays, blog posts, whatever, maybe, I don't know, we'll.

We'll see where this takes us.

But the next one is going to be a group of cardinals.

What is a group of cardinals called?

Conclave.

I.

Man, I almost.

I almost did a blank check envelope type gag.

Or just like you should have.

That would have been really good.

I knew I was, I was.

I was prepping for these while I was in the line and failing to.

To get Hawthorne tickets yesterday.

And I was just looking through this.

Just like some MF is going to say conclave.

But it's the.

Your options are a college, a convocation, or a parliament.

What is a group of cardinals called?

And I'm.

I'll spin the wheel here.

First guess is going to come from Aaron.

Aaron, how do you feel about this?

I'm going to go with college.

Aaron is going to go with college.

Fun coincidence, because Aaron and I actually went to the same college as did other of us here.

My transitions are getting worse and worse.

Jason, what is your guess was the second one convent?

I'll read the yes.

Or I'll read those again.

The options are college, convocation, and parliament.

I like convocation.

Convocation says convict.

Jason and Harry, what's your pick?

The only one I know it's not is C.

Parliament, I believe.

So I'm gonna go with convocation as well.

Convocation.

Unless they use parliament for multiple species.

Of birds, which is very possible.

So I guess I really don't know anything.

Yeah, good point, Jason.

I did try to vet these and I think I successfully, like, I don't know, there's just to pull back the curtain.

There is like a mishmash of different terms that like, like flippantly get used between bird species.

Yeah.

You can pretty much call one thing a flock.

Right.

Like stay tuned.

But by and large, these are the terms that are more so specifically referring to these birds.

So all that is to say a group of cardinals is called a college.

So Aaron picks up the point there.

A convocation would be a group of eagles, according to my research.

And then parliament would be a group of errors.

Owls.

A parliament of owls.

See, aren't these just so fucking fun?

Yeah, they really are.

Birds are the best nouns are really something.

Next up, we have seagulls.

What is a group of seagulls called?

Our options are, we have a colony, a flock, or a round.

A colony, a flock around.

What is a group of seagulls called?

And the first guess is going to come from the mouth.

Mouth of Aaron Grossman.

I feel like you've all like, Flock of seagulls is such a term.

But also, maybe that's not the official.

This is the exact thinking process I was going through.

Aaron.

I'm just gonna go with flock just in case.

Because I don't want to, you know, I don't want to.

Yeah, I don't want to miss it.

Don't want to miss a thing.

Jason.

Yes.

I got you down for that.

Jason, what is your guess?

I like round.

I'm going based on what I, what I like because I think you're, you're savvy enough, Cody, to know the most common ones that people are gonna know.

I doubt owls is gonna be one, for example, so, or like crows.

So I, I, I think you're gonna go around.

I'm gonna go around.

I mean, all right, Jason is gonna come around to see and Harry, are you gonna cover the spread or is your heart going in a different.

Sorry.

I think I am just gonna go with flock because I feel like if Colony of Seagulls was the answer, the band would have called themselves Colony of Seagulls, because that's a way better name than Flock of Seagulls.

Yep.

Well, founded.

Got you down for that.

I agree.

And it is wild that they didn't call themselves a colony because that is the term.

Colony of Seagulls is, is the.

Cody, do you want to start a band called the Colony of Seagulls?

Stay tuned.

The, the flock.

Flock of pigeons is what I Flock.

Flock refers to a group of pigeons from what I can see.

And then funnily enough, a group of robins is called a round.

I wonder, you know, hey, again.

Yeah.

Round of robins.

Round of robins.

Is that what Round robin.

That's pretty cute.

It is.

It is.

No points, no, you know, explicit points gained on that question, but I think our souls have grown a couple seconds sizes just with each, with each prompt, you know, not.

We try to.

No Noty segment can single handedly save the world, but in some cases maybe it can.

Speaking of which, turtle doves.

What is a group of turtle doves called?

We got three more of these bad boys.

A group of turtle doves.

A deceit, a pitying, an unkindness.

So just take everything I just said about saving the world and feeling nice and just throw it out the window.

A deceit, pitying or an unkindness for a group of turtle doves?

The birds at the heart of Home Alone 2 lost in New York, which are supposed to symbolize something peaceful and friendshipy.

Harry, what is your take for.

I have the vaguest memory of this.

So I could be wrong and probably am.

But I'm going to go with unkindness, Cody, as I generally do.

And we're not going to let Harry guess again.

Got you down.

Down for that guess.

Over to Jason for his guest.

Jason, what are you thinking?

I'm gonna go for a pitying.

That seems too draconian to not be it.

We've.

We've cared about turtle doves for.

For millennia.

We humans.

And I feel like this is an old, old ass enough term.

They're tasty, right?

Isn't that especially in medieval times they were considered.

Is that true?

I think so.

Maybe I'm wrong.

I wonder if they were the things that they use for like ortolan.

That would be a big ortolan.

You'd really have to fucking tear into that thing.

Shove that thing.

Yeah, that's.

That's something.

Aaron, you want to cover.

We have yet to cover the spread yet once.

Do you want to do that?

Do you want to keep the trend up?

What is the COVID The spread response again?

So the COVID The spread response would be deceit.

Otherwise we have pity or unkindness.

This.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, gotcha.

All right.

Got you down for that.

The actual retail price of the term for what we call a group of turtle doves is a pitying.

Yes, it is a pitying.

That it took Jason this long to get a point.

I'm just kidding, buddy.

The.

So Jason's on the board with that.

I will say a deceit is what we call a group of lapwings.

And an unkindness would be a group of ravens.

Man.

So sick.

Fun with words.

Imagine if you and your boys go out on the town and they call you a deceit.

You'd feel like the coolest in the world.

Why.

Why are more gangs not specifically pulling terms from the ornithological world?

Yeah, it's a great question.

It's an important question.

What's even more important though is the fact that Aaron holds a 2 to 1 to 1 lead over the rest of the fellas.

Still, as we say, very much anybody's game as we head into our final two birds.

Heron.

What's a group of herons called fellas?

Is it a caste, a company or a siege?

Which one of those.

A caste, a company or a siege?

And the first guess is going to come from Jason.

Jason, what do you think?

It's a siege of Harrans from me.

It's a siege of Harrans from Jason.

I almost said a siege of Jerrens from Hasen.

Aaron with the next one.

Eren, how are you feeling about heron?

I'll go with the cast.

Aaron is going with a cast.

The perfect cast a la goofy movie remains to be seen.

We'll find out in a few moments.

Harry, you gonna cover the spread or are you gonna go with one of the previous two options?

I'm a little teapot.

Let her fly.

I think the problem with these, Cody, is that I believe these are all actual terms for groups of birds.

So.

And I vaguely remember them but then I don't know which.

So good job on that.

Big ups.

Too much knowledge.

Yeah.

I am vague knowledge.

I have approximate knowledge of many things.

I am going to cover the spread and go with a company of herons, I think.

Company.

All right, gotcha.

The actual, the actual term here, a siege.

It is a siege of herons.

A cast is what we call a group of falcons.

A cast of falcons and a company of Paris players.

Hell yeah.

Guys.

Heron's coolest bird, coolest name.

A siege of herons.

That goes hard as.

That's so sick.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

And this, this segment also going kind of hard not to put my foot on the scales too much.

Aaron and Jason with two points, Harry with one.

We still have the chance for a three way tie.

I can't remember the last time if ever everybody shared the pop off platform.

So I guess those are the six that we're keying off of.

Otherwise one one of the fellas could win outright.

We'll see here the.

The big X factor what it's all been leading up to.

Storks.

A group of storks.

Is that a descent?

Is that an exaltation or is that a muster?

A descent.

An exaltation.

A muster.

This is the coolest shit in the world, man.

This is up there for Cody's noties of the year.

Yeah, the.

The first so the first influence here of how things will shake out hair.

You, you control your destiny for at least a moment until the other guy's guess I get.

So I guess I think I'm gonna go with.

What do you think?

Muster, Cody.

All right.

Harry is going with muster.

Got you down for that.

The next guesser, of course, is going to be Jason.

Jason, how do you feel about gonna go for an exaltation of storks and exaltation says Jason.

Now, Aaron, the last guest of the game, you have a lot of power.

Do you align yourself with one other two guys?

Do you feel that one of them may have landed on the right answer or do you cover the spread in hopes that you know the dart that's thrown at the board that is you three lands in the right spot.

What do you think the funniest thing to do would be to guess with Jason and then either win with Jason or tie with Jason or Ty either tie with Jason or Harry then would tie with all three of us.

I, I'm.

I'll cover the spread just to.

Yeah, I'll just cover the spread, but I thought about not doing it for a second there.

For the record, Aaron, Aaron is covering the spread.

I will say an exaltation is what we call a group of larks.

A muster is what we call a group of storks, and a descent is a group of woodpeckers.

Harry picks up the point.

It's a three way tie fight, fellas.

Y' all sharing the pop for the first time.

Shout outs to words.

Honestly, the descent of Woodpeckers.

That's the scariest and coolest thing I've ever heard.

Imagine you're like, hey guys, a descent of woodpeckers is headed this way.

I'm like, holy, I'm in trouble.

We, we have, we have this unique opportunity.

I just bear with me for a few more minutes.

We all share pop off platform.

We are equal contributors to the winning of this game.

What do we call a group of us?

Oh, I, I vote a confusion.

Which I believe is another term for.

Yeah, I'm sure there is a confusion.

Of we're gonna land on a lot.

Of cardinal red wing blackbirds.

Yeah, a pod, obviously.

That would be the obvious one.

Aaron, A take a take of podcasters.

Is that what you're saying?

Looking at birds that are referred to as a confusion of something is kind of a nightmare for like search.

Would you say it's confused?

It's like bird.

Bird name confusion.

Yeah.

Bird name confusion.

Yeah.

I'll.

I'll tell you co sign that buddy.

Super effective.

Hey, it hurt itself in its confusion.

Yeah, that really bothered me as a child.

The idea that that my Pokemon would get confused and it would respond to confusion by harming itself.

That was, that was very, very upsetting to me, truly.

Anyway, I like a confusion of podcasters.

A take of podcasters.

Sure.

Are you.

Are you cool with that, Aaron?

You're the other one in this podcaster.

I think that fits.

Try lovers Harry.

I really set him up for that, didn't I?

I apologize to the listener.

You know, formally it's take a podcasters.

Informally it's yeah, it's a score to podcasters which you can hear much more from maybe that same sound effect.

Next time we'll be for this episode the yes, the the government's AI is going to hear that much expellation from a kitchen from a ketchup bottle and they're going to arrest us.

So if we're back on the air next time you can keep listening to us wherever you listen to podcasts at Tri Love.

Thank you Cody for ending our episodes on always such a light fun, light hearted note and I do mean it.

That one's going on my list for personal best Cody's noties of the year making you know for that now.

But you can check out more episodes where you listen to this one.

You can find more from the trial line@trilon.org you can find more from us on Twitter and bluesky at trylovpodcast.

You you can find more from me to help make this show on Twitter and bluesky.

Nintendofus thank you so much for listening.

Yeah thank you so much.

Shout out to the what do you land on this?

This.

Take this pot, whatever.

Shout out to everybody who got the tickets they wanted for the Horathon you fuckers.

But it is what it is.

I have been Cody Narveson.

You can find me on Blue sky and letterboxd@codynarvison.

No spaces.

Thank you.

I've been Harry Mack and you can find me on letterboxd at Shiitake Harry and I'm Aaron.

Find me on Blue sky at rb please.

Look Corporal fellas, let's get with it, right?

Remember baseball pitching.

Chicago's always had the pitching.

But now as far as as far as hitting goes, well, my, my sister, she can hit better than half them fellas.

Let's move it out.

Lover has gone cut the pretty girl.

Yes, it's like a bramble bush.

It's a pretty girl will thrill you very much.

Oh a pretty girl is like a bramble bush, but you'll get stuck if you should touch.

Oh, the bramble bush.

Yes, the bramble bush.

Oh, the bramble bush.

It's the bramble bush.

What actually creates victory is.

Yeah.

Diana's on screen.

Do you see her?

Hello.

She walked in here to have me open a jar for her that she needs.

What was in the jar?

I'm gonna cut this out.

It was better than Boolean.

Nice.

Which we've been talking about in the group.

Aaron endorsed product.

Do you think it's better than Boolean?

Yes.

Yes.

By far, yes.

Hell, yeah.

What are you making?

Just derailing this.

This is.

No, let's.

Yeah, you know, let's do this.

Actually, I.

I think she's going to get this.

Some sort of.

No, he's gonna leave this.

I think he's making some sort of.

I think she's making some sort of Mediterranean bean kind of tomato dish.

And then I have some chicken in the fridge.

Maybe I'll cook that up later and.

Sounds like a good combination anyway.