Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about queer sex.

Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.

If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more offense your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer discretion is advised.

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Put your pussy up, put your put your pussy up, put your pussy up, put you, put your pussy up.

Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

I'm Gabeln Sadez and.

I'm christtison Rosso.

Each week we explore the sublime world of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.

We talked to queer folks of all kinds.

We'll ask some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide practical advice that you can use at home.

Put joy, put your put yo, pussy, put jo, put put your put.

Put your puts up.

So Gabe, yes, Chris, do you remember the first time you heard about prop Oh?

Yeah, the year was nineteen fifty two.

No.

I.

One of my first jobs out of college was editing for a gay porn studio.

My boss was HIV positive, and he told me that he had just learned that PREP had been improved by the FDA in twenty twelve, and he was undetectable.

And he had sort of explained to me what you equals you is undetectable equals untransmissible.

Right.

If somebody who's HIV positive is taking their medications regularly and being treated, they're undetectable and therefore they cannot transmit HIV to you.

And this all started because I had had a hookup with someone who was HIV positive and so despite the fact that it was perfectly safe for me, whatever that means for you, right, I was like kind of anxious about it.

My boss he was like, oh, well, you know you can get on PREP and I had never heard about it.

So I started like serving the porn performers we would work with.

I'd be like, hey, are you a PREP?

Have you tried it?

Like ah ah, where'd you get it?

About this?

Like I was literally every girl and they were like, yes, girl, I've been on it for six months.

Like it changed the game.

And it was so funny because at the time I was working.

For a bareback or condomless studio.

Usually there would be testing and you know, talent would disclose, but often there were zero discordant couples or groups being paired on camera, so they all were very aware of what PREP was.

And you know, this is also the era when a lot of porn studios, folks like Michael Lucas or folks like Larry Kramer, were very negative about PREP.

Right, this was very early days, and a lot of the data that was coming out was being questioned, you know, sometimes without reason, and a lot of these scare tactics that people hold on to, and a lot of the fear that people was going to hold on too from the nineties and early two thousands still kind of impacted the perception.

So I literally, I think until the age of sixteen or seventeen, I thought you just magically got HIV if you had condomless sex with another gay man.

So very grateful to the porn world because they gave me the education that no teacher in Florida did and very few of my friends could have at the time.

So, Chris, how about you, I'm very curious when did you learn about PREP and has it impacted the sort of sex ring or the sort of partners you seek out in your life.

Yeah, so I didn't hear about PREP for a long time.

I am HIV positive.

I have been since two thousand and five.

I didn't hear about it because, like, my doctor is not gonna tell me about product because like I don't.

I'm it's it's too late.

Okay, this is our Angels in America audition right now.

It was too late.

I started using Crystal method having sex round the same time, and so there wasn't a lot of conversations around safer sex and those spaces, and so for six years from the time I started having sex, and so the time I tested positive, I knew that I was engaging in risky behavior and I just didn't care.

I did have a really good friend and he worked in HIV care.

So like one day he like shows up to my apartment and he was like, we're gonna go get you tested and got the results.

My friend immediately clocked it.

Like I was in there for a while because like I had a compleat eat breakdown.

Yeah, I remember really feeling alone because I didn't have people.

The first year or so was really really, really difficult.

But yeah, I didn't really hear about PREP for a while.

Honestly, I couldn't really tell you when the first time I heard about it was and what the context was it might have been on an app.

From the beginning, was always very clear that like, IMHIV positive and like if you're cool with that or you're not, I'm not going to waste time.

Like if you're going to reject me, then to reject me.

There are plenty of people in New York that I can fuck, and like for a while there there was a lot of like sero sorting.

You know, I was only hooking up with other HIV positive people just because there was like less to like worry about.

Wow.

Yeah, And I'm sure there must have been a i don't know, very difficult time to also engage with trying to find sexual partners or dating partners.

You still got this like post nineties like scare right, everybody's like, oh my god, but it's like pre prep right.

So it's like a lot of headway had been made in terms of treatment, in terms of medication that HIV positive people could take to live long, healthy lives, but it just felt like the knowledge and the grace and the accuracy was still lacking.

Yeah, it is to this day.

I mean, and there were still people dying from its related like in the early two thousands, Let's be clear, Like people were still dying from the disease, like, and that is a thing that I think a lot of folks kind of forget.

And the way that we engage around treatment is different today than it was back then to Like when I first tested positive, they didn't give me medication right away.

They said that your numbers were good enough, your viral lod isn't crazy high, so we're not going to put you on any medication.

Which is not the way that they treat the disease today today.

Like you test positive, you're on medication immediately because we want to get you to the U equals you.

Oh yeah, the word undetectable wasn't something that entered my vocabulary until shortly before I found out about PREP.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It was twenty twelve when the FDA approved the use of PREP, medication that was already being used to keep HIV positive people undetectable as a tool to prevent HIV transmission and serial conversions.

During its early year.

Its prop was controversial, to say the least, because it up ended the established approach to safer sex, which prioritize condoms above all else.

Most of the conversations surrounding PREP has focused on its impact on HIV negative.

People, but PREP had an impact on queers living with HIV two and today we're going to have that discussion.

We're going to look back on thirteen years of PREP exploring how it's changed the lives and sexual behaviors of both HIV positive and negative people.

It's time to meet our first guest.

Daniel Sanchez Torres is a San Francisco based writer and editor who has covered topics like photography, literature, film, relationships, HIV and pandemics.

He's a member of the collective What would an HIV Doula Do?

They create art, informational materials, and engage in discussions about aspects of HIV care and community.

Most recently, Daniel has written a series of essays about his history of cruising in the San Francisco Bay Area with Everything Matters Press called Cruising with the King of Sex.

Welcome to Snippy's Cruising Confessions, The King of Sex, Daniel Sinja's Daughters.

Hi Daniel, how are you hi?

Hi?

Hi?

I should clarify I did not give myself that title.

Somebody else gave me that title, So okay, you know it's something that I sometimes claim.

I'm sure you're living up to the responsibility every day though, right.

You know, I worked very, very hard to overcompensate.

Daniel, Before we dive too deep into your title on how you earned it, I would love to hear a little bit about Ring Up near San Francisco, which has a long history, not just as a gay hotspot, but as a place where a lot of important strides were made in HIV, AIDS activism and community care.

It's this weird thing, like I grew up in the Bay Area.

It's super open, it's super queer.

It has its history.

But I also grew up like in the suburbs.

The city was thirty minutes away, so it was kind of this thing of like, oh, it took me a while to kind of find people that I wanted to have sex with.

Because I like graduated from high school, I went to community college.

I was kind of a fuck boy, Like I was just kind of having a good time.

And when I was eighteen, I traded my virginity for HIV, and so I was like with my mom in the doctor's office and my doctor's telling me that I'm HIV positive and I'm sitting there like, great, my mom's in the waiting room, you're telling her.

Well.

I think that was sort of the big moment of like me coming out of like if you weren't sure before, Yeah, this is why I have a pretty positive confirmation that I am very gay.

I'm wondering if I can ask what your reaction to that news was, especially given that your mom was in the waiting room, Like what were your first thoughts and how did you and your family react to the diagnosis afterward?

So it was terrible timing to get HIV.

I mean, is there ever really a good time?

I don't know, maybe like a spring, but I ended up so converting like over over the winter holiday.

So I had like graduated from high school at all this summer, and then I was it was like fucking around during the fall and I ended up getting like hospitalized.

My fever was so high that they had to put like an ice blanket on me to just like get my fever to come down.

So that was like super intense, And because of the holidays, I didn't even get a chance to see my doctor until the new year, so I kind of had this feeling of like, oh, I was just sick.

It's fine, it'll be chill.

And then when I had like this follow up appointment with my doctor, I very distinctly remember like seeing all of these plaques on the wall of like achievement in HIV studies.

And I sat there looking on all these like plaques and stuff, and I was like, oh, he might just be giving me like a stern talking too about like my behavior.

And he walked in and was like, you're HIV positive, and I was like, oh shit.

I still very distinctly remember that office appointment and that being in that room and like my mom was freaking out, and my mom like asked the doctor like you know, like through teary eyes and like shaking breath, like you know, is he going to die?

And the doctor looked at her and said, We're all gonna die.

That's just really stuck with me.

I have this constant like monologue in my head of like, oh, we're all going to die, Like we're all going to die.

And my mortality is very much like I'm very aware of it, and for better or worse, like it leads me to great decisions.

And that's a great decisions because I'm just like fuck it, yo, know, let's go.

Yeah, I kind of wish that I had had someone to tell my mom that I was HIV positive.

It's really helpful.

That's my advice.

If you're trying to be positive, get somebody else.

So, like I was out of the country for like four months, like as I was zero converting, and like it was horrendous.

I'm nineteen years old, I'm on tour.

I'm going to have a conversation with my parents.

You come back from a tour and your mom's like, what'd you bring me in?

And You're like, I got you told me to have a positive experience.

She came around, but it took some time.

I know, a lot of conversations.

She watched the AIDS epidemic happen and was really terrified for what that meant for me, Like when she got more education on the science around it.

Like she came around and she saw me living in like a very full and healthy life.

You know, I wasn't like sick ever.

Daniel, you have an essay about cruising and your experiences with HIV called Cruising with the King of Sex.

Can you tell me more about the essay and where this excellent nickname came from.

Yes, the essay is really just kind of thinking about, like my history with sex, how HIV has impacted my relationship to sex, how I've changed as a person.

I do think that sometimes I can be a great person to have sex with, and it was also thinking about like why is that?

Like why did that happen?

A lot of it was overcompensating for my HIV.

I think a lot of what my headspace was at was like, if I'm a risky person that have sex with, then I'm going to do everything I can to make the risk worth it.

And I think that's part of how I kind of got this title.

I'm curious if I can ask, when you cruise, when you use the apps, when you meet new folks, how do you sort of handle the disclosure question?

I mean, I think what's been interesting about cruising is that, you know, I feel like the core of it and kind of what makes it fun and what makes it enjoyable is the anonymity.

So like, I'm not having conversations about my HIV with people, and that requires a little bit of personal responsibility.

I wasn't always comfortable with not being so open about it, and now I'm just kind of fine with it because I think it's sort of to the point of like education and knowing about your body and knowing about HIV and knowing about these things.

I'm the safest person that you can have sex with.

Like somebody who is HIV positive and on meds and undetectable, They're not going to give you HIV.

I find disclosure to be like a very intimate thing, and the situations that I have gotten into that have been complicated have been sort of the hookups that are not a one off thing.

In those moments and the times that I've had those conversations, They've always been pleasant and they've always been fine, And I think it's mostly because they wanted to keep having sex with me.

So I think leading with really great sex is really helpful for disclosure.

The way that I disclosed today is different than the way that I disclosed fifteen years ago.

I've been positive for twenty years now, and the drugs have changed.

The science around you equals you has changed, right, the information that he has has changed.

So in the beginning, every single person I came in contact with I was disclosing.

Today I have it on my apps.

If someone is like looking at my profile, it is up there.

I talk about it.

I say that I'm undetectable.

I'm less likely to have that conversation in the dark room.

You'll hear Chris saying things in the dark room, but it won't be about that.

No, Yeah, I'm usually saying actually in the dark room, I get called that first singing.

And if you ever hear like humming that sounds like someone's humming into someone else's butt, that is.

But today, like, yeah, it's just a little bit different.

I'm only having that disclosure conversation if I'm meeting someone out and we decide that we're going on a date or something in that sense, then I'm having like the disclosure conversation.

But outside of that, I don't think I need to have it unless it's going to be something like I'm in a romantic situation with you, and I think it's important that you should know this.

We talked a lot about how PREP hasn't fundamentally changed the way you go about your life.

But I'm wondering, if you know, since the FDA approved PREP in twenty twelve, if you've seen a difference is in the experiences that you're with partners, when you're hooking up, when you're cruising.

I do think that PREP has really sort of taken away the responsibility of people having a conversation about HIV and about STIs in terms of like a difference.

I don't even know if I would call it a difference, but just something that I've noticed.

The people who are not going to have sex with me before PREP because of my HIV are not going to have sex with me after PREP because of my HIV.

I'm just one person, But anecdotally, I don't really know that PREP has really done away with stigma as much as it has done away with having an opportunity to have the conversation.

And you know, at the same time, like I'm not trying to have a conversation about it either, So it is kind of a thing that I just sort of had to accept.

I think I have to agree with you on that one, actually, and I hadn't really thought about it that way until you said it.

But it's true, like I don't think there are people who are like now that PREP exists, or like banging down my door to fuck.

You know, the drug treatment is not going to magically dissolve some stigma.

If people have grown up with years and years and years of these like incorrect, inappropriate, like stigmatized ideas ingrained in their head, that's like community work that you have to undo.

Right, I do want to like give space to the folks who are like learning.

Hey, I understand that science is different, right, I understand that, Like the way that I showed up before was really stupid.

Like if they approach it that way, then like I might give them a pass.

It's also it's so interesting that your experiences are so different than folks are on PREP.

Because a lot of people online, right, you hear this every now and then it's like, oh, we're ultimately on the same drugs.

It's like we're all doing the same thing.

And it's like, no, no, the experiences are different.

Right.

It's like I might be taking a certain drug for PREP that somebody else is taking to you.

Know, save their lives.

Yeah, exactly, but that our experiences are not the same.

It's not that the community is not the same, even though we might be taking the same drugs.

Yeah for sure.

I mean the stakes are incredibly different, you know.

I think especially now, like in this moment, the things that are being attacked right now are prevention methods.

So this is really sort of a negative people problem that they need to kind of deal with.

You know.

I think sometimes I get this question of like, you know, what what should we do?

Like how do we approach this?

And it's kind of one of those things where it's like I actually don't know because at this present moment, my care is not under attack.

And I think the stakes are different too, because you know, for HIV negative people, like what happens if PREP goes away?

You stop having sex with HIV positive people.

Maybe I don't know what happens if the care for HIV positive people goes away.

It can be a life or death situation.

And so even those situations, like the stakes are different.

It's been an interesting dynamic to be in this position to realize that like right now, people who are on PREP, they're the ones that are most at risk in terms of getting their care taken away.

And so I'm curious what you guys are doing, you know, I'm curious about like how you guys are motivating each other and what your community is doing.

I'm curson about your group.

What would an HIV doula do?

Can you talk a little bit about the group, How did you get started?

What work do you do?

So I'm in a group called What we Can HIV Doula Do.

It's a community of people joined in respond to the ongoing AIG crisis.

We really understand adula as someone who holds space during time to the transition.

We really think about how HIV is a series of transitions that begin long before getting tested and that continue after treatment and beyond.

We realized that like no one gets HIV alone, no one should have to live with HIV alone.

And so that's really sort of where the group came together, foundational to sort of what we do is really just asking questions.

We've made sines that we've done, exhibitions, we've done public engagement work.

It's been a great kind of group to be a part of, and it's been honestly kind of a mind fuck in the best way.

It was a very rare experience of being in a room full of people and having the realization that the people that I was talking to were like directly responsible for the fact that I had health care, for the fact that I had access to meds.

They are a lot more activists than I am I mean, I think I'm kind of a punk, but they are on a neither level.

So like, I have a lot of respect, I have a lot of appreciation for them.

Going through a pandemic and now currently living through our current administration.

They've invigorated me and they've been a bridge of knowledge, of inspiration of hope.

I think the thing that I kind of am always in tension with is I'm not interested in being an activist.

I'm not interested in being like a cautionary tale.

Like I really honestly believe that, like my life has been amazing partly because of HIV, and that's not to say that my life hasn't been shitty also because of HIV.

I mean, I live in in the United States and we have our shitty healthcare system.

So I think that's really sort of where I kind of entered the group.

I'm wondering how much PREP has had an impact on your organization and the work that y'all are doing.

The people in the group are really activated around protecting PREP and around protecting healthcare.

I don't want to limit it to just PREP, and I don't want to limit it to just HIV.

I think what's been interesting about the group is that we have people from so many different kind of activist groups bringing a lot of ideas and thinking and experience to the table.

To have a group like that who has experienced is really kind of nice to kind of see and be on the sidelines, especially as I see a lot of them activate to protect prep and make sure that people who are HIV negative can stay negative.

That's exciting to hear too.

I mean, I feel like post pandemic.

There's also been this resurgence in the visibility of ACT up in New York.

But that's another organization that I think growing up, I always associated with the nineties, and they're still here and they're still doing stuff surrounding ACTS.

It's so encouraging to hear that there are groups everywhere kind of like breaging that connect.

Right, we can sort of continue the work and hope to make this world a little better than it was when we entered it.

We're not starting from zero here, right, And I think, I mean, I go through this all the time where I'm just kind of like, fuck, what am I gonna do?

This is like completely new to me.

How am I subouted to navigate this?

And then to like be reminded that there are people out there doing the work, and I think kind of the best thing that you can do is go find those people first.

Oh yeah, go find the people that are already doing the work and connect with them and figure out what they're going to do.

They'll have better answers than I do.

Okay, So I have to ask It's kind of a controversial question, but I have to ask you this question, just past person a pause, person, how do you feel about bug chasing and the phenomenon that is.

Girl leave me alone?

Every time I got a bug chaser in my DM, first of all, I realize they're mostly always white, always, And then my second thought is usually like, damn, your healthcare is that good?

You want to get a disease that's a pain in the ass of paperwork and also like a fundamental misunderstanding of you know how HIV works, Like, bro, we're all undetectable.

You're not getting it from any of us.

I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah, so I normally just block them because like, I'm not doing this with you.

I don't need to engage with you.

I'm not doing an education.

Yeah, this definitely is like one of those fantasies that like, I'm not trying to go down that road.

This is not the fantasy I'm trying to live.

No, it's not.

It's also I already have it, so it's like, I.

Don't know, I am already living the fantasy.

Girl.

It's cute gift, but like, we don't wish you with.

Me in this economy.

Yeah, you know, returns no exchanges.

Sorry, baby, we should shift some gears.

We should years.

All right, let's get a little more anecdotal.

Since you were nicknamed the King of Sex.

What is one of the wildest, craziest, maybe most memorable hookup stories you've ever had during your years in the Bay Area.

Oh my god.

In the last year or two, there was this guy who like hit me up on Sniffy's and he was like, Hey, i'm working late.

I'm at this gas station, Like just come in, Oh, take out your dick at the counter and if I like what I see, then you can fuck me in front of the I was like, oh okay.

And at the time while this was happening, I was also texting another guy and I was like, Hey, I don't think it's going to work out.

I'm about to go meet this dude maybe next time, and he was like, can I come watch?

And I was like sure.

So I walked into this gas station in the middle of the night, took my dick out at the counter.

The guy looks at it and he goes, great, the manager's off, it's that way, and I was like, cool, leave the door open.

My friend is coming, and he was like awesome.

So we go to the manager's office.

He's sucking my dick, he's, you know, going to town.

And then all of a sudden, I hear the door open and this guy walks in and he walks into the manager's office and he just starts jacking off and watching me fucking and I like, turn him around.

I put him on the manager's chair.

I'm like fucking him in the chair like it was great.

I had a great time.

I did wake up with a giant bruise on my thigh because of how hard I was like slamming into the chair that he was in.

Maybe sometimes you gotta put your whole puss into it, you know what I mean.

I mean, they don't call me the King for nothing.

Yes, I told you I'm gonna make it worth it.

I'm sorry that you organized a sex show as somebody else's place of work.

And I'm kind of gag because, like, what if the guy that walked in wasn't even when you were texting?

What if it was just like a random client that came in and decided to drink off with you all on the manager who knows.

That's really beautiful.

That's community.

That is community community.

So you see, like a very beautiful anecdote To end our interview on before we let you go, could you please tell us where listeners can find you and read more of your writing.

The best place to find me is be on my newsletter set DST slash newsletter.

That's sup dst dot com.

I'm also begrudgingly on Instagram at sut underscore at DST, and my Then the Cruising Diaries can be found with Everything Matters Press, So that's Everythingmatters dot Press, slash shop.

Pick it up and find out how I became the King.

I guess amazing.

All right, when we come back, we're gonna give you a refresher course on the different varieties of prep that are on the market and in the pipeline.

So stay with us, don't go anywhere.

So in this act, Chris and I will be talking about all the forms of PREP that are currently available and some of the forms of PREP that are coming soon to a pharmacy or a doctor's office near you.

So the first of the approved methods for taking PREP that we want to talk about is the daily prep, and this one might be the one that is most familiar to you.

It is the pill that you take once a day, every day, regardless of what, whether you're having sex or not.

Ideally you're going back every three months for refills as well as HIV and STI testing with your doctor.

Now, once a day prep is not the only way you can take PREP.

You can also take PREP on demand.

So prep on demand is also known as the two to one one method or the intermittent prep.

And this one's a little trickier because you are taking pills on a schedule.

You want to take two pills two to twenty four hours before you have sex.

Then you take one pill twenty four hours after the first is and one more pill forty eight.

Hours after the first.

Since the two one one two before you have sex, one after, and one two days after.

If you continue having sex, you can keep taking one pill every twenty four hours, but you'll have to take two pills after you last had sex, so one twenty four hours after you do, and another forty eight hours after that.

Now, for folks who don't like taking pills, there is now injectable prep.

This is fairly new.

So this is one shot in the butt and it happens once every two months.

It is important not to miss an injection.

Yes, there is a short grace period about one week in either direction, either one week before the two months end or one week after that two months.

If you wait too long, the amount of medicine in your body may fall too low to prevent HIV, but a lot for mutations.

This is the same thing that happens when you're missing enough of your daily prep two months.

Injectible prep is just the latest advancement in prep.

But soon there should be an injectible prep that you only have to get injected every six months.

And that works by two subcutaneous injections in the abdomen once every six months.

Not as fun as in the butt, but it is very effective.

All right.

So we've covered the forms of prep that exists now, but there are also so many that are in the research pipeline.

There are things like microboside gel, vaginal rings, depositories, foams, etc.

Now, before we close today's episode, let's hear some listeners submitted cruising confessions from our Horny Colin hotline.

Yes, my favorite tradition.

I'm so excited.

It's great.

Okay.

So I was home for Christmas in this tiny town out in the desert, and I was desperate together of the house and stuck some dick and I remembered that at this party in Brooklyn, I hooked up with this hot, handsome Santo looking daddy from my hometown.

So I was talented him on Facebook and he said, well, I can't bring you home because I've been taking care of my mother.

But if you had found at a party in Brooklyn, I know there are some people who throw raids out here in the desert.

And I saw some lights up on the mountain, and maybe we should go up there and see what's happening, and if there's nothing, we could just go back to my mind, and I kind of didn't understand exactly what he was saying, and I was like, okay, sure, And this guy pulls up in front of the house in his hummer and we start driving up into the mountains with his enormous car completely filling up this narrow, winding road, and it feels like at any moment we're about to plunge over this cliff into the dark.

And he goes up to where he saw the lice and he says, oh, I didn't see anything.

That's weird, Bute.

We should just go back to my mind.

I'm like, oh, you mean, like back to your place, and he's like, no, my mind is right near here.

And he spends like he owns a mine, like he's mining or and I'm like, oh, okay, And he stops the car and we get out, and I say to him, Wow, I'm not getting any signal on my phone up here.

This is just like in a horror movie where somebody says I'm not getting the signal up here and then they immediately get horridly murdered.

Yeah, and I'm.

Pretending like I'm joking, But I say to him, you know, if I hadn't just had long conversations on the record with you and several of my friends about my plans for tonight, I would be scared for my life right now, which, of course is exactly what I am.

Terrified but we have a good laugh about it.

And we walk over to the entrance to his mind with like the tracks on the ground for the whole cart and everything, and he's got like a lantern and I got my phone light and we go inside and it's literally sleezing coals outside.

It's a line.

There's all this geothermal heat and it's warm, way damp.

I'm we go down this narrow passageway into this mine.

It banks on like this platform on the ground.

We're making out it's me and this grizzled prospector in his mind, and we're getting undressed, and he's got a whole union suit on under his clothes, with like a trapdoor seat and everything, and I'm eating his ass.

Well, he's sucking my dick, and then I'm sucking this white bearded daddy up the ass on the floor of his mind.

And it's incredibly hot, this crazy fantasy.

And we come and he did not try to murder me at all.

We just had an amazing time up in his mind.

And then he drives me back home to my parents' house.

And that's my crazy story.

Okay, no, what do you mean You're picking me up on a hummer.

First of all, red flag number one.

Red flag number one is the hummer.

You're picking me up a armor?

Okay, good part of the story.

You had met this person before, so like you already knew that they were likely not a murderer.

Again, you never know.

So we have the hummer.

Yeah, and then we have the driving up the narrow path.

I'm gonna be honest, I think the rave was a pretext.

I won the rave.

Oh my mind, happens to be next to this ray?

Like, girl, how many mines are there in the desert?

And also what were the oars?

What are you mining?

Are these precious materials that we should not be mining?

Is this a kin to fracking?

I need to know, yes, this is this a victimless mine?

I mean it's a hummer, So I think we get Yeah, maybe he said fuck the environment and my ass.

Now they are making electric ones now Okay, I'm just saying.

I'm also like, okay, when I think of mines, I'm like, oh, a corporation runs a mine.

A corporation runs a mine.

This man's treating this like his bachelor pad.

He's like, oh, the people come in, Yeah, they clink on the rocks and then when they leave, I bring out my blanket platform and I like what And.

It must be a fantasy for him because he obviously going to afford a hotel.

Girl.

Yeah, if you own a mine and a hummer, you could have three houses.

That's the thing he likes, fucking in the mind.

Yeah, that's why the rave was a pretext, because he's like, it sounds creepy when I email somebody, let's fuck.

In my mind.

And then he goes back to his mother.

Right then he goes.

Back to his mother, the previous owner of the mine.

I'm assuming because how else do you fucking get a mine unless you inherit it from your family?

Just like a mind.

Yeah, once you go to an estate sale, be like, oh, this mine looks great to fucking I this is one of the most like, like, honestly, everything in my body is like no, no bad idea.

But it also sounds kind of funny and really hot.

You Yeah, you're sixty nine ying the owner of the mine.

I lost it at the lantern.

I was like too much, too much.

I I this is weird.

What kind of role play are we in right now?

I've needed a story to make me feel something.

This is the most I've felt in I am I'm like thrilled, I'm scared, I'm angry, I'm I'm dubious, I'm a little turned.

On us dubious.

Okay, Wow, so we fucked in a mine.

We've been told about fucking of mine with the Union suit and then I bet it.

But I bet I have a little bits the butt flat.

Yeah, that's some snow white and the seven Dwarves ass shit.

I can't handle it.

I love that.

I love that.

If you want to hear your own cruising infession an upcoming episode of this podcast, you can call our Cruising Confession hotline at three zero two two one nine three eight nine eight.

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Okay, so we're at the end of this episode.

We've had an incredible guest.

How are you feeling after this episode?

I love this episode and I'm really glad that we got to do this episode because I think that it has been thirteen years, but I think there are still a lot of conversations that can be had right and sort of talking about the impact not only on the folks who are HIV negative, but those of us who are HIV positive.

Yeah, I'm really excited we got to talk about it specifically from this perspective because I think a lot of the conversations or the ads or the TV programming we see that involves PREP always has an HIV negative person involved, and a lot of panels and conversation I've been to publicly about PREP usually center HIV negative folks, and I love that we were able to talk to Daniel and to you as well about how PREP has impacted HIV positive folks because in some cases it's like, well, hasn't changed much, but in other cases it has changed quite a bit.

One of the things I think we didn't really like name it specifically, but the conversation around shame around HIV.

Daniel and I have showed you like the lack of shame that we have, but I think that there has been a shift in the perception around HIV and the shame that folks who are experiencing around it.

I think, I think, in my experience.

I want to think our guest Daniel Sanchez Torres.

You can subscribe to his newsletter Rough Drafts at sup dst dot com, Backslash newsletter, or order his new essay on Cruising at Everything Matters dot Press, backslash Shop.

He's also on Instagram at sub sup Underscore, dst.

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