Lo: I got to just get up and do what I wanted to do.

I did take showers when we were done doing skin to skin.

I walked around the room.

it just makes you feel normal.

Still human again.

Yeah.

Like, you just feel like yourself again.

Trish: I really loved it and I realized, I felt like a freaking boss ass queen afterwards.

Like I really felt good.

Like it's a euphoria you cannot explain.

Hi mamas.

Welcome back to the podcast.

Today we are gonna be talking about a really fascinating topic, but it's one that might surprise you and maybe even challenge the way you think about your birth.

I have a guest today who is also a labor and delivery nurse and a childbirth educator, and she was chatting with me and she said, have you ever noticed that a lot of labor nurses, midwives.

Birth educators personally choose unmedicated birth and it's something I've seen over and over again myself, but I haven't really thought about it.

So we're gonna talk about some like behind the scenes reasons maybe that.

Labor nurses and birth experts don't choose a medicated birth.

However, I do wanna say we do know some that do.

So it's not everyone.

But go ahead, grab your raspberry tea, a gizzy little blanket, and let's get into it.

So today's guest is very near and dear to me.

It's a low man's Mansfield.

You may know her as the labor mama on social media.

She's also one of my clients inside of my coaching Mastermind.

So welcome low.

Lo: Hello you guys.

Thanks for having me, Trish.

Fun to have a conversation like this too.

Trish: Yes.

So tell everybody just a little bit about low, like just give them, you know, just the little details.

Lo: Yeah.

I'm gonna give you the non like Instagram educator version.

I'm a mom of four kids.

I had a baby about 10 months ago, so that was our fourth baby.

I live in Colorado.

When I graduated from nursing school, I went straight into ob.

I still feel like it's this little miracle because all you new nurses out here who wanna do OB and babies, people say like, you might have to do MedSurg first, and that can actually be great because you learn so much about the body.

But, I got to go right into OB and, it's just, I feel like the second I walked into that job in that space, it was like, oh.

I found my passion 'cause I had been a business student before I have a business degree and went right back to school and said, nevermind, I wanna be a nurse.

And like from there it just was so clear that I love being with people and being with mamas.

And I saw a pregnant lady at church the other day, Trish, and I thought of you because you have said so many times like, oh, I just like love pregnant mamas.

And I felt the same.

I just look at all these pregnant girls at church and I'm like, oh, I just love the pregnant body and love seeing 'em.

A weirdo.

I just wanna touch her belly, but I don't.

So anyways, yeah, I truly, this is a passion for me and so whether or not I, were doing what I'm doing now, like I'm on the phone with friends all the time, they're texting me about their sisters.

Like, this is just a space I love, love being in.

Trish: Me too.

And I love that you mentioned that.

'cause I'm, this, I, I do.

I see someone pregnant and like I get so excited.

Lo: Yeah.

Trish: And I get a

Lo: little like

Trish: Yeah.

Well and I am getting older so my peers are not having babies.

Lo: True.

Trish: But I, you know, I have done that many, many years before I started Labor Nurse Mama.

Like I did what I'm doing now.

So it's so funny.

What's really fu So two things.

I did do med surg for a year.

My, I went to school to be a labor and delivery nurse is the, literally the only reason.

I don't like sick.

I don't like wounds.

I don't like any of the other stuff.

Like I'm not, I like birth, but I did med-surg for a year and I'm really grateful that I did because it really helped me be able to really recognize like six signs.

Lo: Yep.

Trish: You know, during birth and recognize something, wow, this is not, this is not birth.

This is something else, but.

It was not my jam.

I, we did it.

Lo: I bet most ob, OB nurse, passionate, ob passionate nurses are gonna realize that too.

Mm-hmm.

Like you did.

You're like, this is good.

I've learned so much.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: And I know what I really love and office.

Yeah.

And that's fine.

So many nurses probably do that until they land in the spot that they love.

So,

Trish: and, and then there's the opposite.

'cause I had a really good friend who was a dialysis nurse.

Yeah, but she wanted to be a labor and delivery nurse.

She did it for like nine months and she was like, you people are no joke.

Yep.

I, I can't hang.

Lo: Yep.

Yep.

I think that's why it's such like a passion.

I mean, nursing itself has so many niches, but.

I always feel like the ones who are in OB are meant to be an ob.

Mm-hmm.

Because you either love birth or you're like, that's not for me.

Trish: Well, and

Lo: such a clear line.

Trish: And we know the ones that should leave ob.

Lo: Yeah, that's true too.

Trish: And And the patients know the ones that should leave ob.

Lo: Yeah, they do.

Sorry.

Trish: You do.

Lo: Okay.

Trish: So let's dive into this topic.

'cause I love that you brought this up 'cause I had other things planned for sure.

But I think this is gonna be intriguing to our audience as well because.

It taps into both of our expert insight and our personal experiences, and I'm very interested to see where this conversation goes.

So I would say, let's start with you and let's talk about why did you choose unmedicated birth?

And also, I don't know this, if you were a labor nurse before you had your babies during, after

Lo: I was, yeah.

So, it's been like five or six years when I was pregnant with my first, so I was, you know, working the floor up until she was born.

I think I worked, you know, my last shift, I actually, I, I remember it so clearly.

I worked like 14 and a half hours because someone came in.

Precipitously at the end of the shift, which means fast labor.

And so everyone was like, who's gonna take care of her?

So my little 39 and a half week body was like, I can do it, because I felt, I felt so great my first pregnancy.

It was just a dream.

So anyways, yes, I was working.

So had all of the, you know, the skills and the knowledge, that you get working at the bedside, right?

You get your school education, then you get your practical education.

And then I think when you go through it yourself, then you get that like real raw education.

There's kind of, in my opinion, like three educations you get on the way to being an OB nurse, so mm-hmm.

School, real life as a nurse, and then real life as the mother type thing.

Mm-hmm.

And so obviously I hadn't had that like real life mom experience yet, but.

I just felt, well, one reason that I wanted, I wanted to do it.

This is silly, but a lot of, you'll probably say same.

My mom had had unmedicated births And it was like, oh, women have unmedicated birth.

You know, like my mom did it.

And we were really big babies.

We were all almost 10 pounds.

My mom was this tiny little woman.

She was like 5, 5, 3, 5 4, and had these really huge babies.

And so I just always

Trish: have this, okay, hold up one.

Because when I met you in February, so in February Low came to my mastermind retreat for my clients and I was really shocked how tall you are.

So your dad is not a tiny man?

Lo: He is not.

He is a very big man.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'm five 10.

My dad is six four.

My mom is five four.

My mom has since passed away, so that's why I'm using past tense.

But she was five floors, so there was a foot difference between them.

She had massive babies.

Of course she did.

For reference, I did not.

I don't know why, because I'm the tallest, there's three girls in my family and I'm the tallest biggest one.

But somehow still have had, you know, like little seven pounders.

So not like my mom at all.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: But my mom had big babies.

She did unmedicated.

Her stories are funny, you know, and they're, they're typical of women who had babies in the eighties, you know?

Yeah.

Episiotomies.

My guess is she laid on her back the whole time.

I haven't.

I haven't gotten to talk to her about it since she's passed away obviously.

So I wish I could pick her brain more now.

Mm-hmm.

As I've gone farther and farther.

But anyways, so part of it was my mom, and she said, get the epidural and enjoy your labor.

Though she would not like tell like, oh yeah.

She was like, I don't know why I did that.

Just get epidural and you will have a good time.

So, I dunno, I'm competitive, which is silly, but I bet people resonate with, I just wanted to see what I was capable of.

Trish: I think.

Lo: So that was a big thing for me.

Like, can I do this?

Mm-hmm.

This is a big thing.

It's a hard thing.

Maybe one of the hardest things we do physically, can I do this?

And so that was definitely at play.

And then I think clinically speaking, I just working at the bedside, you see that the less intervention we do typically.

The better the outcomes are, right?

Mm-hmm.

And that doesn't mean with intervention you have poor outcomes.

So don't hear me say that it's not true, but the less we do, the more physiological we allow it to be.

I'm gonna say it like the better it goes.

Mm-hmm.

Or you know, like the body can do what it needs to end labor and then after the uterus can do what it needs to do without being impacted by any meds or fluid, you know?

And so.

I just had seen that, right?

Mm-hmm.

And then last really practically speaking, but I always thought like if my baby has to go to the nicu, if something's going on, I wanna be able to get outta that bed like instantly.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

And so I just really specific those two hours after an epidural where you're not able to walk yet.

Like I wanted to know that I could go where my baby might have to go.

And so that was like a little piece of it too.

So kind of some silly reasons, kind of some clinical reasons.

Kind of some practical reasons, Uhhuh, so it just all like, yeah.

Meshed together and that's what I wanted to go for.

Trish: Okay.

So my reasons for having my first unmedicated are way more in depth than that.

Mm-hmm.

Just so you guys know, I was 17, I went on a hospital tour.

And saw the epidural needle, and I was like, hell to the no.

Yeah.

Lo: See, I didn't have that.

It wasn't a needle thing at all.

Trish: So just so all of you guys, I, I'm gonna say this first before any of you judge me.

I've had six unmedicated deliveries.

Okay?

But that first one, there was two reasons.

One, I was 17 and broke, and back then you had to pay out of pocket for the epidural.

So that might've been part of your mom's reasons too.

'cause I had, oh, we

Lo: were broke

Trish: had, it's probably part of it had in 1990.

Lo: Yep.

Trish: And so you had to pay, well, I couldn't afford to pay, but number two, growing up, I was the girl that the medical office hated when she had to get her finger pricked.

Or get any blood draws or get an injection, because I would lose my everlasting mind.

And one really strong memory was my mom, and this might be considered child abuse at this time, but in the eighties it was not.

She grabbed me by the ponytail, whipped me around, threw me into the chair, and sat on me so they could do draw my blood.

Yeah.

And so that is how I walked into my birth, right?

Mm-hmm.

So I did not make some grandiose like decision.

It was no way.

I am not having that needle.

I'm petrified of needles.

Yeah.

And so I had Ian's delivery and I actually was like, oh, I liked it.

That was okay.

Mm-hmm.

Like, and then by the time I had Hunter, I had done a, you know, I, I say I liked it, but my first birth was still filled with so many interventions.

It shouldn't have been.

And I left that birth feeling like everything just happened to me.

Lo: Mm-hmm.

Trish: Even though for a first birth, it was a really quick birth.

I think I got there at like nine at night and had 'em by one.

Lo: Yeah.

Trish: You know, 1:00 AM Yeah.

So for, for, of course I was 17 and you and I both know those young girls come in and they're, they, they're great at laboring and their body is Prime babies.

Yep.

Prime, prime, prime.

But even though I got an a episiotomy, I had a vacuum.

I had Pitocin, I had all these things I did not need.

Right.

And so after that birth, and, and I too, grew up in a home like my, my mom had c-sections and vaginal delivery.

So she had a late term loss before me and then had a, and had to have a C-section with that baby, and then had a C-section with me.

Because back then, you know, you had a C-section, you have a C-section.

But I come from a very organically birth friendly breastfeeding.

Like no one was awkward about breastfeeding in front of us.

If you breastfed, like you breastfed at family events, whatever.

So I feel like I was really fortunate in that.

But with Ian, I did not choose because of some big thing I chose because I was scared, however.

I really loved it and I realized, and I felt like a freaking boss ass queen afterwards.

Like I really felt good.

Like it's a euphoria you cannot explain.

Lo: Yeah.

Trish: And so with Hunter, I did a lot more education.

I was still pretty young when I had him, but he also came like a typical second baby.

Very, very fast.

Yeah.

So the only one I ever thought about getting epidural, I don't know if you've heard this story, but it was Laney, she was number five, I think straight op.

She fractured my tailbone.

It was a horrific experience.

I actually contemplated just doing a C-section on myself.

'cause at that point I was a nurse and I knew where they held every, uh, they had all the tools and I literally contemplated.

Just let me, I'm just gonna get her outta here.

I asked for an epidural with her.

She's the only one I've ever asked with for her.

Now again, my nurse was a new labor nurse.

She had come from the nursery, mind you.

Mm-hmm.

And she didn't recognize the signs.

She thought what I was feeling was because I was a repeat offender.

So she wouldn't let me get up.

She wouldn't let me do anything I needed to do.

I had to poo, she wouldn't let me because she was sure that I was gonna deliver, which you and I both know with an op baby, if they're like, they're gonna bring everything out if you know.

Yeah.

And so it was just not the best of experiences, that one.

But he was in the OR and couldn't do my epidural.

I remember looking at my nurse and saying, you go tell him I need him more than she does.

Lo: That woman open on the table does not need

Trish: him.

Yeah, yeah.

But I had her like eight minutes later, so, so that was me later.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So probably a little bit of op plus transition, but.

Yeah, my daughter now says she didn't wanna come out looking at my butt.

She's like, do you blame me?

Lo: Okay, babe.

Great reason.

Trish: Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So tell us about the rest of your birth.

Lo: So all four have been unmedicated birth.

I've always been with midwives, definitely something early on that I.

Wanted and saw value in was midwifery care.

I got to work at an incredible facility too, for the relationships between obs midwives and nurses on the floor was incredible.

And I talk about that a lot because I, I know that's not true everywhere.

And so I try to be careful with like my own teaching or education or when I share my own stories, I got to come from a really good place and I delivered at a really good place.

And that can change your outcomes, right?

That can change your relationships

Trish: mm-hmm.

Lo: With your providers and all that.

And so.

The more I've been in the birth space and the more I've talked to other people, I know that I had a really cool place and a really special place to mm-hmm.

Learn and deliver.

And so when I talk about my birth stories, they all went really, really well and I had really good people around me.

Trish: Mm-hmm.

Lo: And part of that, yes, you can craft that, right?

You can create that, you can interview providers, but I also had the gift of just.

Where I was and the people who were around me had really incredible working relationships and that impacts patients.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think I was also like gratefully so a product of my environment as well.

So I will teach anyone, this is how we do that, this is how we create that.

Mm-hmm.

And I also had the privilege of just kind of living and working in existing inside of it too.

And I just say that because all four of my births were great and they were hospital births.

And like, don't get me wrong, I did the work.

My husband and I took our own birth class, even though I had been working for years, and we spent, I think it was like five or $600, like mm-hmm.

More than almost all of us charged today.

Like we spent a lot of money because of the type of birth I was hoping to have.

And so,

Trish: yeah.

Lo: And then that was really valuable for both Kelvin, my husband, and myself, because he.

I feel like it taught him that birth was normal and that was my big goal with Kel So I think it was really valuable for Kel and me because he learned that birth is normal, right?

He learned that my desire for unmedicated birth wasn't weird, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so as soon as I got Kelvin on board with that too, then it was like we, I'm gonna say we were unstoppable, but we were, because he was like, she can do this.

Mm-hmm.

And I can help, and here's the ways I can help.

And so that's why partner education's so important too, so

Trish: important.

But

Lo: getting him on board.

Like, it just changed all of our births.

I, again, I'm saying I'm rambling on about him and that too because, and all four of 'em, like Kel showed up and did his job.

Like Yeah, this fourth, this fourth birth I just had, they all were very, textbook in like a really nice way.

Right.

My first birth, 10 hours from first contraction to birth, we gotta, the hospital, I was about eight centimeters.

She was born an hour and a half, two hours later.

Like, that's incredible for first birth, right?

Like, that's how you want it to go.

Nobody touched me.

If I didn't wanna be touched, I was checked once because I asked, you know, like it was all those, those things we teach and a lot of people want second birth.

Really quick, like you said about your second birth.

I woke up and I was having contractions five minutes apart and was like, we gotta go now because this, it's the second baby.

They're gonna come.

And I think by the time we actually got to the hospital, you know, it'd been like.

A couple hour, 90 minutes or so because it was middle of the night.

We had another baby, someone come take care of him, blah, blah, blah.

But she was born like 90 minutes after we gotta the hospital.

So like less than four hours from waking up at night to her birth again, no one touched me, Kel and I did what we wanted, like, and, and the third one even faster.

Trish: So

Lo: no cervical

Trish: exams with number two?

Lo: Yeah.

The first one triaged me and checked me and I was.

So pissed at them for checking me.

'cause I was like, you guys, I know what I am.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

But first time moms, actually, it's a good little lesson.

First time moms, I think hospitals are like, we gotta check.

We don't trust you.

You don't know what you're going through.

Yeah.

Right.

And we don't, yeah.

And I had been that nurse, so I'm saying like, I have been that nurse who Yeah.

And now I'm like, we can trust them.

Yeah.

There's a, there's a line there.

So anyways.

I remember them checking me and I was like, Hmm.

Told you so.

'cause I was like eight with a bulging bag of water.

Yeah.

And they're like, oh, she's gonna have a baby.

And there's this little part of me even in the midst of transition and I was like, you guys are so annoying.

I tried to tell you.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: Yeah, but like, how did I beat that birth?

But it was my choice.

The second one, I didn't have an iv 'cause she was like, you're gonna have this baby.

We'll throw one in if we need one.

They never checked me that birth ever.

Trish: Wait.

So my third birth was, wait, so you guys listen.

You can actually have a baby without a cervical exam.

That's possible.

Lo: I've done it three times now.

Trish: I just,

Lo: the first one not

Trish: Yeah.

But yeah, I, it's so funny because I don't know if you listen to the episode, Rebecca Decker, I was on evidence-based birth.

Yeah.

I'm totally fangirling right now.

Every time I say love her too, I do too.

And, I

Lo: love her.

Trish: She asked me like, what do I tell my students if they get to triage and they say they can't admit 'em if they don't.

Check them.

And I said, tell them no, like they're not gonna send you home.

They're not gonna take that risk.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and you and I both know that.

And she said, you mean they, you just tell them to say no?

And I'm like, yes.

They don't have to explain themselves.

Lo: Yeah, I think that we forget that too.

You hear, I feel like you hear that a lot with, birthing on the back and they're like, but I don't want to, what do I do when they tell me to get on my back?

I'm like, don't get outta the back.

Don't do it.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: That's a, I mean, I, it's so simple and I'm not confrontation, I'm not confrontational.

And actually don't feel like you're very confrontational.

No, I'm

Trish: not

Lo: at all.

So for me to just think like, oh, that's so easy, just tell them No.

I get, if you're sitting there going, that's easy for you to say No.

I understand that feeling.

And I never had a doctor or someone.

Trying to force me to do that, so, yeah.

But.

They, they can't pick you up, flip you over.

That's what I say.

That's my second

Trish: part of

Lo: it's That's true.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: Right.

They'll

Trish: not manhandle you.

Lo: They won't do that.

That's assault.

It would be very clear.

Like,

Trish: yeah.

Lo: So I hate to tack about it like that, but just don't get on your back.

Yeah.

If they tell you to get on your back, don't.

Or if they, you're laying on your side and that's where you wanna be.

Don't move.

Trish: Stay that way.

Yeah.

You know, like,

Lo: yeah.

And

Trish: so they'll, so, so, I, I want you guys, let's pause for a second 'cause I want you guys to hear us.

We both understand that.

It's easier to say that when you're sitting in your room watching your birth course it and like hell yeah.

Than when you are laying down and people are standing over you.

They've got their uniforms, their credentials.

But here's what I wanna say again and again.

I have never in my life physically moved a patient into the position that I want them to.

And like Lo said.

That would be physical assault, and you would have a massive case against them so you don't have to explain yourself.

And what I really loved about one of my doulas on my team, Ashley, I was her doula, which I think I told you about.

And when she was pushing her nurse, kept telling her to hold her breath and stop making noise and all this.

Ashley, it was the cutest thing ever, and I wish I could have got it on video, but she just looked at me winked and just kept doing her thing.

Lo: She

Trish: winked at you?

She like did a little smile winked at me and was like, just kept doing her thing.

And they can't, like, they're not gonna grab your face and shut your mouth.

We can only tell you what we want you to do.

And then if you have to, if you feel like you need to say something else, you can say, Hey, chart that I refused.

Lo: Yep,

Trish: you've covered your ass now.

You know,

Lo: which is actually like put a pin in that everyone as well, because you can say, I hear you, please chart that.

I'm refusing about a lot of things.

Mm-hmm.

Because as the nurse, that's sometimes when you're refusing stuff that we technically like have to do.

We do.

We do need to cover our ass.

Like, and so that's what, so if you tell us that and we do that.

Yeah.

Like we've done our job and you get to do what you need to do or want to do.

And so I think.

Knowing that, that you can tell your nurse,

Trish: yeah,

Lo: I understand that chart that I refuse.

Like that is something that's available to you.

Yeah.

So that,

Trish: and also noting that one, also noting that there is a lot of nurses who are acting under this fear or understanding that they need to please this doctor because they work with this doctor every day and they may not even agree with what the doctor's wanting you to do, but we are under those doctor's orders.

So once you give her permission to chart that, you've refused it, like you're clear, she can refuse it and she probably will be your greatest advocate at that point.

Mm-hmm.

That's my opinion, you know?

Lo: Yeah, yeah.

No, I think it's like such a valuable little snippet to share because like your nurse and your provider, your midwives, your doctors, they have power, right?

Like you said, they're standing over you.

They have badges, they are using their voice, but like.

You still have that bodily autonomy.

Trish: Mm-hmm.

Lo: In regards to what you're telling them with your own language and with your own body.

And so it's not easy to do what we're saying.

And I think it's important to say that it is not always easy to look back at them and say, no.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: Or I'm doing this instead.

But it really is available to you.

Trish: And that falls back into what you said about Kel.

Your partner has to be as educated as you because in moments like that, if your partner has not taken your classes that they don't know why, you don't wanna push on your back if they don't know the rationale.

Now you've got these doctors who are saying things that if you don't know any better sound like this is absolute.

And then your partner hears it and they're like, why is she being so stubborn?

And now the one person who should be really like stepping up at this point.

Stepping at you.

And you don't want that because that is really hard.

So that's why your, your partner needs to be on board.

Because I always say this, when you're in labor, your job is to labor.

Like at that point, if you're pushing on your side and you've already made it clear that's what you want and you're doing it, which is clearly saying that's what you want, your partner can speak up.

You don't even have to deal with it.

Your partner can say, Hey, she wants to push like this.

Can you please chart that?

This is how she wants to push.

Lo: Yep.

Trish: You know,

Lo: and that's like.

Going.

I think we stopped tagging third, fourth, birth third was really quick.

We're in 45 minutes after we got there.

My most recent one, she was born 19 minutes after we got there.

I mean, it was just like, but it was not chaotic and they were never, I mean, that's fast and sometimes there's trauma related to fast birth, and so that could be another conversation too.

But I felt so safe and I felt so heard, and Kelvin knew what to do every single time.

I remember sitting in the bathroom at the hospital.

This is my most recent birth.

And I went straight to the bathroom and went pee.

As soon as we got in my room and I heard Kel, I was like so proud.

Even in the moment I heard him say, Hey, she needs the mat.

Can you put it on the floor when she's doing this?

She likes it like that.

Like he just started telling everybody, I love the way I like to have a baby.

And I, I mean, I've told him like, you know, he's like, haha, that was so hard for me was 10 minutes of work or whatever.

But I'm like, but in those 10 minutes.

You literally did.

He rose to the occasion, everything I needed you to do.

So, no, you didn't have to push on my back and counter pressure for 18 hours.

But you also knew exactly what to do.

I mean, it was really cool to sit and listen to him even in the moment because he just told them.

And they were like, that's my man, you know?

Yeah.

He did such a good job.

And so there is that thread of like, Kel did a great job in all four of my birth.

Mm-hmm.

So again, I felt safe.

We were educated, but like we did a lot together to get to that place.

Trish: Mm-hmm.

Lo: So that he could help me as much as they're able to help.

Yeah.

There's a lot of work on you.

You're gonna gonna be one of the toughest things you've done, but like, he helped so much and so I think that that also.

Just such an incredible, or like incredibly valuable part of

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: Birthing and medicated in a hospital is that person who is doing it with you.

Mm-hmm.

Like they can be a game changer.

They really, really can.

Trish: Okay.

Another question for you.

You had Scotty in the US right?

Or did you have her?

Lo: Yes.

Trish: Okay.

You, you got pregnant outside of the us?

Lo: Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

So this is random, but we had lived overseas for a year and a half between baby number three and number four.

I got pregnant with number four while we were still overseas and came back 20 weeks pregnant and then, okay, finished pregnancy.

Had the baby here.

Trish: Yeah.

Okay.

Wouldn't that have been cool though if you had experienced birth in another country?

Lo: Not or not.

Cool.

That could be a podcast too.

Well, I was in the Netherlands and they have, their home birth rate is the highest.

They have some of like the best outcomes even with.

Dangerous home birth.

Right.

Air quotes.

Yeah.

Dangerous home birth.

Yeah.

Home birth can be very safe.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: yeah, they have a ton of home birth.

They have the most in the world.

When I was getting OB ultrasounds and stuff, you know, they're asking, you know, how are your other births or whatever, and I'm like, they're really quick.

They're really great.

You know?

Yeah.

Did things without drugs or whatever.

And so all my techs and all the, usually the midwives do your ultrasounds there.

So you kind of work, the midwives do everything for you.

Mm-hmm.

And then you only see an OB or like someone else if you need to.

So the midwives were always like, oh, so you're gonna have a home birth?

And I was like, no, I'm gonna go to the hospital like I do, like being at the hospital.

And they're like.

I mean, they were always in my face like, wait, why would you not have your child at home?

What is wrong with you?

Trish: I

Lo: wanted a home birth.

Really fun.

So

Trish: bad.

Lo: Yeah,

Trish: so bad.

So you never wanted a home birth?

Lo: Um, I didn't.

And some of 'em were probably be silly reasons to some people, but like, well, Kel didn't like that idea.

I will say that's one thing that he was never into.

He wanted us to go to the hospital and be there.

Mm-hmm.

And I can respect that he had that like.

I believe in everything.

Do a healthy dose of fear.

You wanna do.

Yeah.

But he had that like, you know, if something goes wrong, I'd prefer that we're there, you know?

Yeah.

And I get that like, yeah, I, I think that that's a really valid reason.

And yeah.

I've, I, and I would say I felt similarly, like I deeply trusted my body and our abilities and our, he and I as a team.

Mm-hmm.

Care providers, all of that.

But you know, to me it was like for the one in a million type things.

Yeah.

I'm fine being at the hospital and I felt like we could walk in and say, don't touch me.

This is what I'm doing.

Yeah.

And have it go the way that they went.

So, so yeah.

I never really thought about, one birthday is expensive too.

I was, that's another, talking to someone about that the other day and there's, I was with a doula and she's working with someone who is.

A home birth and like the home birth is gonna be about 6,000 bucks.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: Which is what we owe for our hospital birth with insurance.

Right.

So it's not always just like, oh, this so I had great I insurance.

Trish: No,

Lo: I did not.

Trish: I it paid just about everything.

So

Lo: trash insurance.

Yeah.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: So there's that difference too.

My hospital birth have been pricey, but there's still about what I would've paid out of pocket.

Often they're, they're about the same as what you would've paid for a home birth.

So the, the financial benefit benefit,

Trish: but you can make payments,

Lo: isn't there?

And they come to your house.

I mean, there's a

Trish: lot

Lo: of good,

Trish: no, no, no.

I'm saying for the insurance, like you don't have to just pay it right now.

Yes, that's true.

Okay.

There's another thing I thought of that I was gonna ask you, and now I forgot.

Oh, I know.

Okay.

This is what I was gonna say.

One of the things that I really loved, and you mentioned a little bit was getting up immediately because I loved taking a shower sooner.

Lo: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Trish: And that shower is like heaven.

Mm-hmm.

So I was wondering, like I, you, you kind of mentioned about getting up, but I personally, not just because, so I could go with them if something happened, but I just loved being able to get up and walk and feel like me again.

Mm-hmm.

And those things were really important to me.

I didn't like the idea of being trapped in the bed.

Lo: Yeah.

I, yes, agreed.

I, I, I'm even thinking back, I had a photographer.

The wonderful Monet from Denver, I'll shout her out if you live here.

Monet is amazing.

She was at my most, my two, my most recent two birth.

And there are photographs.

That, Kel and I are both like at the warmer, so we've both done skin to skin and we've done whatever we felt like doing with baby and feeding, and then we're both right there while they're weighing the babies and they're just these sweet photos.

Like we're right there.

And I've had plenty of moms, you know, they're sitting right in the bed.

They still do it right there.

But there was this sweetness of like, I got to just get up and do what I wanted to do.

I did take showers when we were done doing skin to skin.

I walked around the room.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, my hospital is, near the Flatiron Mountains, these beautiful mountains in Denver.

So I would just like, wander around the room, go stretch by the window.

Like, it sounds so silly, but like you said, it just makes you feel normal.

Still human again.

Yeah.

Like, you just feel like yourself again.

Mm-hmm.

And so, I think that was more something that I realized I really liked after the fact.

Right.

Like, I didn't realize, oh, this is so nice.

Mm-hmm.

And then by the time mm-hmm.

We're having two and three and four.

It's like, I love that I could just like go do whatever.

I felt like, yeah, really.

Like as soon as I was done with skin to Skin, I'm like, here, Kelly, you hold her.

I'm gonna go take a shower.

You know, or whatever.

Yeah.

And so you do, you just, and I think that's maybe that little bit of, like you said, you wanted home birth too.

There's a little bit of that where I, where like birth centers send you home after two hours.

Home birth, you're in your house.

But it is, it's that little bit of lean towards.

Normalcy.

Yes, I was in a hospital, but I still wanna feel like very much like myself.

Yeah.

And can care for myself and can care for my own body.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just how I want to, even though I just had a baby.

Trish: Yeah.

I love that too.

And, and I do agree.

So I personally wanted to have a home birth so bad with my last two, but it just wasn't in the cards.

But I have this weird thing of if I'm not gonna have a home birth, then I wanna be in a high level NICU hospital.

Lo: That's really funny.

Isn't I get why you would want that?

' Trish: cause I would not want to have to stay at that hospital while they transfer my baby.

Lo: While they transfer you.

Yeah.

Trish: So that is my weird thing that I have.

So like I, at the time I had Grayson, I worked at a hospital that just had a like.

Nurse a care like, well baby.

Like well baby type nursery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was like, I'm not gonna deliver there if I'm gonna deliver somewhere where they don't have the capability to do the things it's gonna be at home.

Or I'm gonna be at a hospital where I, 'cause that terrifies me more.

Like at home you can at least go with your baby if you choose.

So you just go, right.

Yeah.

But at a, so some of you guys might know that, not know this, but at a birth center or a lower level hospital, if something happens and baby has to be transferred, you can't leave the hospital to go with baby until you're discharged.

And most hospitals won't discharge you quickly.

So that always freaked me out more.

So like I was like, if I'm gonna have a hospital birth, it's gonna be somewhere that has doctors in-house, has blood in-house, has a nicu.

Yeah.

All those things.

Yeah.

So, you know, yeah,

Lo: it's true.

I mean, those are like kind of weird things.

You can do the, the NICU choice though, what Trisha is talking about is like, there's level one, level two, level three, and level four NICUs and level four.

Do everything.

Yeah.

Like surgery, they can do anything.

I wanted a three or a

Trish: four.

Lo: Yeah.

So if you can choose Yeah.

And that matters to you, like a level three or a level four probably means that no matter what happened, like you and your baby would always be

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: In the same

Trish: hospital.

And that I, I think too, that came, that was born from trauma.

'cause I had a really good friend whose baby had to be transferred.

And she could not be transferred.

And it was a couple days before she could go with babies.

So of course you want your partner to go.

So she was alone 'cause she had no family in town.

Right?

So those of us are friends.

We're rotating time with her to be there with her because now she's got this trauma going on.

Baby's over here.

She's not there knowing what's going on, but she just had a baby and now she's alone.

So anyway, that's a whole, that's a whole nother can of worms, but.

That was one of the weird, it

Lo: just goes back to that value in like choosing a provider in a facility.

Mm-hmm.

And thinking about these things though.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: You don't have to like make a trauma based decision or however you say that.

Yeah.

But like.

These are options.

Like not everyone has options for where they can deliver, but there are, there's some wiggle room in these spaces.

Think about these things.

Trish: I love this.

So I would love for you before we close out, 'cause my audience does not li like listening to long-winded podcast episodes.

You know, I would love for you to maybe, one last little thing on, you know, everybody knows Labor Nurse Mama I, they always say I lay it out like a buffet or a smorgasbord, and you can pick and choose what you want.

So if you guys are listening, you're like, no way in hell would I have an unmedicated birth.

I get that and I respect that.

And you can have an absolutely beautiful, empowering epidural birth.

Nitrous oxide, whatever you choose.

But I'd love to hear like any other takeaways or, or advice that you would have for these moms who are listening.

Lo: Don't outsource your intuitions to the internet and to your providers and to your best friend.

I think regardless of the type of birth you want and where it's happening and what you're envisioning for yourself, we are, and I say we collectively, like Trish and I included, there's this danger of letting other people.

Be louder than the voice inside your head.

And the voice inside your head is the voice that you need to listen to your entire motherhood journey.

Trish: Mm-hmm.

Lo: And so these other voices are valuable.

Obviously Tricia and I are both here saying, Hey, our voices are valuable and we wanna help you, but do not outsource your intuitions and the things that you feel that are right and wrong to someone else.

And what they're saying louder.

Mm-hmm.

We, yeah, I think I, you just see that in every type of birth.

Every sort of scenario you see in postpartum or with breastfeeding or with how you want your baby to sleep.

Like all of these areas, all the

Trish: way to how you wanna school your child, to Yeah.

All the things

Lo: like basically until you're gone.

Right.

Trish: Can they have a device?

Can they not have a device?

Exactly.

Vaccinate don't, yeah.

All of it.

Yeah.

Lo: Exactly.

Trish: Yeah.

Lo: I would imagine until I am gone like this is, this will happen.

Right.

These things that we believe and feel are right for our children.

We tell ourselves to be quiet and we let other people speak over us, and so I think your intuitions are powerful and they matter, and it is.

The most important voice in your story is the one that, that's your mama heart.

Yeah.

And you gotta listen to it first.

Yeah.

So whatever choice you are making or not making, or drug you are not choosing, you know?

Yeah.

I don't care.

I want you to listen to yourself and let that person speak the loudest.

So

Trish: I love that I start some of my, uh, free workshops out with the most important voice in the labor room.

Is the one inside your head.

Lo: Yep.

Trish: That one.

Learn to listen to it.

So I love that.

So tell everyone where they can find you.

Lo: Yeah.

Like Trish said, I'm the labor mama on Instagram, TikTok, all the places.

I don't do a lot of TikTok, but Instagram, my website's, labor mama.com.

It's, mama like Trish's.

It's a MA for mama.

Podcast is lo and behold a little playoff.

My name, more motherhood, birth, pregnancy stuff going on over there too.

Yeah, that should be all the places.

Trish: I love it.

Thank you so much for coming today.

Lo: Thanks, Trish.

This was great.

Trish: Hey, mamas, what a conversation with Low.

I hope this episode gave you some real insight into why so many of us.

Birth educators, labor nurses, doulas, choose to go unmedicated.

It's not about proving anything or toughing it out.

It's about understanding our own bodies and making the right choice that feels right for you.

At the end of the day, the most important thing is that you feel empowered, prepared, and supported, and whatever birth experience that you choose, whether it's unmedicated, get an epidural need interventions.

You deserve to be informed and in control.

Your voice is the one that matters, if you guys don't mind, please take a moment, subscribe and leave a quick review.

If you love the podcast, it helps me bring you even more amazing birth content.

Thank you so much you guys.

Until next time you've got this, I'm cheering you every step of the way.

I will see you again next Friday.

Bye for now.