Hi, This is Mitch Goldstein from Venice, Florida, and I play at Rotanda Golf Course in beautiful Southwest Florida.

This is golf Smarter.

Golf Smarter number four hundred and sixty three, published on November eighteen, twenty fourteen.

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I don't hit the ball very long.

I would say I probably reach around two sixty yards in your terminology, but I hit it very straight.

I don't miss too many fairways.

I don't miss too many grains.

If there's parts that I can look at, which playing tournaments helps you do, because if you're not learning, there's no point playing golf.

Sure, game's got a bit of work to do of pitching and chipping, and that's having your podcast has helped me that way.

There's been some great people.

I pick up little tips all the time from your podcast, whether it be even Dennis with the hands going back, hands going forward, or Tony Manzoni who with the body turn and also with mental with Joseph parent and that you pick up tips all the time and if you're not not learning, as I said, you're not playing golf.

Just short game and putting.

They're the only two parts that I've really got to pick up on to help me get to the next level.

Struggling to make the tour with Australian pro Darren Garrett.

This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers and golf professionals to.

Help lower your score.

It's worked for your host, Fred Green.

Welcome with the Golf Smarter podcast.

Jarin Good ay, Fred, how are we?

Oh?

We are very happy to hear.

Gooday.

Well, it's a nice beautiful morning down here in Perth, Australia.

And here in Northern California.

The sun is about to go down.

Got a lot of time difference, don't you.

No.

I love scape that we can do this and it's not going to cost either of us anything to make the phone call because I really want to talk to you.

Well, I'm looking forward to talking to you as well.

Right well, thank you very much for reaching out.

I'm just kind of touched that you were listening and that you wanted to share your story.

I find it very interesting.

Basically, you are a golf touring pro wannabe.

Yes, I've done my trainee ship through the PGA of Australia, so I can teach as well.

Okay, but basically.

It's in my heart to go on to go and play across the world.

I've been to various places throughout the world, namely through Asia and the South, but there's just a part of me that there's always want to play the game, no doubt.

I love to teach as well.

It's great seeing kids with a smile on their face after you give them a good lesson, or even even adults.

But there's just a place in my heart that always wants to play and it's hard to get rid of sometimes.

Yeah, yeah, so you're you're too competitive.

You need to get out there and compete.

Oh absolutely absolutely.

I see days where it's beautiful sunshine and I might be doing something else, in my heart's going what are you doing here?

You should be out on the golf course.

Get the work done first.

Yes, absolutely, tell me how long have you been playing golf?

I've been playing since I was age ten, so twenty eight years okay.

And at what point did you get it in your head that you wanted to play competitively well?

As a youngster, I was doing t ball and baseball for a long time, and we just had a season where the coach was favoring his son as a pitcher and we were losing basically every match, and it just wasn't fun anymore.

And because I'm a saw loser, and I'm happy to admit that, I wanted to do something by myself.

And at that time, I'd been playing golf sort of at a little club over in Victoria, just a little nine hole place with my father, and when we moved over to wa Weather's beautiful over here, just decided to take it a bit more seriously.

And so, okay, I saw a loser competitive How did you start competing in golf when you were young as well?

Yes, over here we have what's called the Graham Marsh Junior Golf Foundation and they house local tournaments for young kids up to the age of eighteen.

So I just became a member of a private golf course called Lake As Country Club and then started playing those junior tournaments and just kept developing friends and also started playing golf better and better, and then it just took off from there.

And how well did you do in the junior tournaments?

I want to I want a couple, But basically I did well enough that I got my handicapped down to scratch by the time I was eighteen.

Wow, yeah, okay, and then go ahead, I'm sorry.

And then before I before I turned pro, I was plus three mm, so that that also fueled the fire of wanting to see how how well I could do as a as a golf professional.

So is this just more of a g I wonder how I could do?

Or is it okay, get out of my way, I'm going to take this place over.

I think it's a bit of both.

I think probably a lot of people saw it as g I wonder how well he going to do, whereas inside of me it's sort of, well, all right, let's go see how well we can be, and let's see how good we are against some of these top guys.

And what's the highest level you've competed at so far.

I went to Asian Q School in January last year.

That was unbelievable to be on a tour at that level where everything's looked after for you.

I was lucky enough to stay at the resort where they were playing the Q School, so all you had to do is roll out of bed and hop onto the golf course and get ready to play a game.

And that was just just unbelievable how.

Different you looked after as opposed to some.

Other places of where I've played and associations that have looked after me.

I'm not really familiar how Q school works.

Can you give me a rundown and walk me through what it entails?

And okay?

So with as and Q School, we had seven hundred and forty guys start off in first stage.

So generally generally they run in two stages.

I know with American now it goes to the web dot com.

But with the American twur schools they go through four or five stages.

But with the one in Asia, it was only two stages.

So when I went up there, there was it was spread over two weeks of first stage, so there was about one hundred and fifty guys at each of the five courses.

We played four rounds.

After two rounds there was a cut of eighty guys, so basically went in half from one hundred and fifty to eighty, and then after that it was the top twenty percent of guys who entered went through to the second stage all final stage.

Wait, did you say there was seven hundred and forty.

To start, seven hundred and forty that started, yes.

Yeah, So what happened to them on that first or do they're all playing different courses all the same time.

All playing different courses all at the same time.

Yeah, I see, okay.

So what if you got into the top twenty percent, then you would continue on to the next stage, which is final stage.

If you didn't get in the top twenty percent, that was it.

You finished.

You're done.

You're done.

Whether it's twenty shots or one shot, you're done, right.

And when you're done, do you get to try to come back next year?

Or they're saying thank you very much, see.

You, thank you very much, see you for this year, over this year.

Yeah, and then you can go back the following year.

And when you go back, what do you just fill out paperwork or do you have to In my business we call it audition do what do you have to do?

Tickets?

But well, playing is basically our audition.

But what you have to do is just fill in paperwork, make sure you pay the right fees, and then find a flight and make sure you do all the proper visas, make sure you get your accommodation sorted out.

So it's just a lot more than just playing playing golf.

So with me, when I went up to Thailand, I flew Thai airways that left from Perth straight to Bangkok.

I could have gone from Perth to Singapore, then Singapore to Bangkok, but just really being in one plane direct flight was the most appropriate thing, rather than spending a couple of hours or three hours in an airport trying to find your way through and then maybe having to go through customs.

And it's just that added rigmarole that you don't necessarily want.

Yeah.

No, I'm kind of curious because I remember how long it took me to fly from Santa Francisco on the West coast of the US down to Bangkok.

Yeah, how long is it from the west coast of Australia to be eight hours?

Eight hours?

That it's a shorter flight, Okay.

From the West coast of Australia.

It's a lot easier through Asia than it is through through even the East Coast.

I think the East Coast of Australia is probably eleven or twelve something like that, because you can't necessarily get direct flight from where you are, so if you're in Brisbane, you might have to go to Sydney first and then then up to Bangkok.

All right, so let's go all right.

That was one of my very famous whoops going in the other direction.

So let's get back to.

Ye travels, right, that's all right.

So I went got into Bangkok and then I took a two and a half our bus ride that the Asian Tour provided for us down to Huahin, which is a small coastal town in Thailand, and it's absolutely beautif for there if any of your any of your listeners get a chance to go to Thailand and play in Wahin, it's just beautiful.

I played at Springville Village, but we also had Black Mountain Banyon.

I think there's a course Royal Thay Navy, which I don't know if people can get onto, or there was also Imperial Lakeview, but all through that area is just absolutely beautiful.

And then there's also working on the visas.

You've got to make sure that you have the correct paperwork, otherwise I won't let you into the country's And that's basically it.

And then once you get to the once you get to the tournament, you just basically play golf.

I actually got to play in pouquette at the Blue Canyon Country Club.

Yeah, in two thousand and seven.

There's actually episode numbers seventy eight of Golf Smarter is my interview with their director of golf there and I loved it.

So what happens now you're paying for everything?

Yes, when you're headed out there, yes, And this is great for them, it's great.

Oh good, Now you're gonna keep paying us and you gotta fly and you got to pay for a year overnight and just hoping.

I mean, if you win or you make the cut, you're not winning any money in Q school.

Are you no money whatsoever?

So basically in a round ballpark figure, it cost me five thousand dollars to go up for Q School.

WHOA, yeah, that's quite the investment.

It is it is it could be it.

Well, it's gambling basically, because if you don't make the cut, that's it.

You got to win another year and then you've got to come up with another five grand.

Right, basically, yes, and I had a chance going into the final round.

I shot seventy two seventy three and was in that twenty percent.

I hit two bad shots and I missed out on going through the final stage by two shots.

Oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh that's terrible.

I'm sorry, But that's golf.

Yes, it is, especially you look at your scorecard going, oh, I can make this, and then all of a sudden you made two bad shots.

Yeah.

Well, I think I think I had an uneasy sleep the night before because i've because of the position I was in, and it sort of plays on your mind.

And then you get up on the first tee, hit a good drive, second shot was all right and made six out of nowhere, and when it boils down to it, those were the two shots.

Wow.

Oh man, I see I couldn't.

That would not go well with me.

Now were you getting support from home of doing this or were you all on your own.

I'm fortunate enough to work for a company that will a boss in particular that allows me to play my golf.

Oh that's nice.

Yeah, when I'm working for Richard at a fast food place.

If I'm not working for him, I play golf.

If I'm not playing golf, I work for him.

I see, you work in the fast food industry.

I work in the fast food industry.

I actually clean a restaurant for Richard.

I start work at three in the morning and finish at eleven in the morning.

So it allows you to play golf in the afternoon.

Plays golf in the afternoon.

But man, it's tough getting up at quarter pass two five days a week.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, it's very It really messes with you, and it's got to make it tough to play golf well too, if you're exhausted.

I think I've I think personally I'm used to it from the fact that that's what I've been doing all my golf life.

Because you play golf during the day, you work nights.

So whether you work at four in the afternoon to midnight or what I'm doing now, I think your body's used to the fact that you do your golf during the day and you work at nights.

Yeah.

So you didn't make the cut that time, No, I didn't make the cut.

How many tries?

How many times have you been to tour school trying to make the cut?

That was my first up in Asia.

I'm planning to go to Q School in Australia in December and then we'll just see how my wallet is situated.

I know the PGA Tour have now developed a school a tour in China and there's also Canada as well, so we'll just see how things go over the next next couple of months as to what we can do with regards to that.

So you've only been to tour school the Q School once.

Yes, didn't make it.

But are you still able to play competitively in tournaments and that possibly can help your earnings?

Yes?

Absolutely.

We just finish.

What are the West Australian Open here in Perth which is part of the PGA Tour of Australasia.

Ryan Fox from New Zealand one with an impressive score of twenty three under for four rounds.

Wow, yeah, I play.

I was really happy with how I played.

I shot rounds of seventy two to seventy and missed the cut by one.

Oh so yeah, so three under was the cut and we were all shaking our heads because I think that's maybe the lowest cut on the Australasian Tour in history.

I'm not one hundred percent certain on that, but I believe that could be the case.

Close to no cigar one more time.

Yeah, so you always always you always, you always rude.

The parts you miss are not the ones you get, of course, had I had an eight footer eight foot on the last for Birdie to make the cart and I just missed the edge.

So and we complain here about missing a pot or two around, it's like, oh, I could have had a broken ninety if I just oh man, how often do you get to play competitively.

In West Coast of Australia is tough.

We've got basically two months over May and April that we that we play, and then we've got the Ouscilation Tour coming around for the three weeks this week this time we've got the Perth International, which I tried to preq for.

Yesterday.

I shot seventy five, but I had to have shot sixty seven to get into the field for that one.

They only offered up four spots.

So generally with prequalifications for tournaments, you might have X amount of spots that are available to go into the tournament.

The West Australian Open one we had about twenty four spots and there were seventy six guys going for those twenty four spots.

Yesterday with a Perth International, we only had four spots available and there was about eighty guys going for that one, and then next week in Calgooley they're still tossing up whether or not to have a pre qualification.

At this point in time it is, so there's probably going to be about I think it's about forty spots and about forty six people gone for that spot, so there will be six people that miss out.

I hope you're not one of them.

Not the way I'm playing at the moment, I won't be.

No.

Oh good good, Okay.

So now the father in me is going to ask a question that many fathers are thinking about right now.

How long are you going to continue to try to do this and keep coming up with five thousand dollars to try to get you know, on past Q school.

Are you giving yourself a deadline to say, you know what, I've tried it four years, five years, eight years, ten years, I'm done?

Or do you not even go there?

I actually did that with Asia.

I got to a point where Okay, I've had enough.

But there's a part of me that just says I got to keep going, and it's just hard to turn off.

Like I'd love to just go and teach golf, but there's just this part in my in my heart that wants to see me out there playing and mixing with the guys.

It's sort of where I feel home and judging after last week to only missed a couple by one, I know that I can, I can mix it with him, and I suppose that's that's the other part, Like if I had to play it last week and shot two really bad scores, well, then it's probably easier to to say no, we'll.

Go down a different path.

But when he get so close to continue on to the afternoon, then it drives you a little bit further.

So I would like I would like to say to you, Yeah, there's a cutoff time of when I turned forty, which is a couple of years.

But I could get to forty and still be playing great golf and my heart still wants to go in it.

It's just something that you can't turn off.

Yeah, and you're at an age now where you know the most guys who are on the tour, you know, including Tiger.

You know, we talk about him too much, but he's still he's still the name out there.

You're getting to an age where it's going to be tough to compete with these young guns.

Well, it's going to be tough to compete with Tiger even when I turned fifty as well.

So I don't even get a break that way.

Yeah, yeah, But when you get to a certain age, unless unless you've done really well, I think your mind, hopefully your mind tells you that enough is enough?

Are there ways for you to keep your expenses down?

Like you talk about five thousand dollars, Is that five thousand dollars the overall cost to go through Q school or is that something that you have to pay to them to get in on the tournament and get a chance.

Now, the five thousand dollars was the overall it was about it was roughly about two thousand dollars Australian to enter the tournament, and then of course you add your airfares, your accommodation, your visas and all that.

So that was the overall and just basically work working, you're through just being able to work for Richard and save up a bit of money.

That way helps me get to specific tournaments next week.

For example, we're in Cawgooley, which is about if you're driving about six and a half hours due west of Perth, and I'm flying there and it's going to cost me six hundred dollars airfare return, so I've basically got to make the cart and probably finish in the top top twenty to make my money back.

So in Q school, there's money to be won.

Not in Q school, it's not until you actually not until you actually get on tour.

Once you get onto a tour like Asian Tour or US tours, then when you start getting paid some of the money for endorsing clubs using using tailor made using titleists, than a sponsor will come along so you can have their name on your shirt.

That's when you start making the money.

But until that point you've basically left to your own devices.

So you are not getting any sponsorship endorsement at all at this point.

Not at this point except from except from Richard, which.

Was going to say except from Richard, Yes, does he do you get to wear a shirt that has his fast food restaurant on your shirt while you're playing it?

Yes?

I do?

Yes?

Oh good, yeah, yeah, I hope he doesn't charge you for the shirts.

No, No, he gets a lot of joy seeing me do do well.

So that's nice.

That's nice.

So what can you do to keep your expenses reasonable?

It's a bit hard from the west coast of Australia, Yeah, I would think so.

Yeah, because if you can drive cross country right.

No, Well, as I said, it's six hours to cat Gully and that's still in our state.

Basically, it basically takes three to get to Melbourne.

It will take three days.

Adelaide you can do in two, and Brisbane's probably about four.

But even with driving, there's there's costs of fuel of course, accommodation like there's you play whatever top price there is over the nullball for accommodation because you're so far away from basically civilization.

But even airfares, it's actually cheaper to fly to Bali return it it is to fly within Australia.

Do you have anybodies that are also attempting to do this so that you can travel with them and share expenses.

Yes, yes, there's quite a few of us.

So when I went up to Asia, there was quite a few guys from Australia, so we shared accommodation, which helped keep it down a bit.

And generally when we play tournaments within our own state, we'll either drive with each other or stay in rooms together, just to try and keep costs down because even in some of the some of the places, like when you go up to Port Headlin and Kartha in the far North with the mining and all that, there's very little accommodation available, and whatever accommodation there is, they could charge you three to four hundred dollars a night.

And that's not in a that's not in a flash hotel either, whoa so.

And most of the time when we go up to those places, the members of the course will look after us, so we get billeted into their houses and that helps immensely.

Does a class more to play in some tournaments and others?

And how would you make a decision of which ones to play?

Yeah, it does like some of the local ones aren't too bad.

The one that I'm playing today is at Lakelands is a fifteen thousand dollars tournament, and that'll cost me.

I think it's about twenty dollars to enter with.

Eighteen thousand dollars prize money.

With a fifteen thousand dollars prize money yet, but they get that prize money through sponsors, so they'll have a sponsor, they might have a couple of sponsors put up that fifteen thousand dollars.

And does that twenty dollars cover if you make the cut all four rounds?

Well, the twenty dollars is only for a one round tournament.

Oh okay, So we've just basically got a one day pro am where we'll look after sponsors or amateurs, play with them, try to play the best we can.

But we also like to give out for most of us as teachings or club pros.

If the amateurs are having troubles, we like to hand out tips while we're going around.

So that's yeah, Well, that's one good part about having pro ams.

And the best part about golf is someone like myself can play in the same group as someone like yourself, Fred who's on a different level, and there might be might be a guy of single figures, there might be a guy that hasn't played before.

And that's the best part about pri ams.

It's just helping other people learn and grow their love for the game.

Yeah, but I'm sorry, I just don't believe you that when you say somebody who's never played before, you were enjoying yourself.

Yeah.

Well there was one time when we were playing up at Newman in the Far North and I had a lady who sponsored the tournament who had never touched the golf club before, and to try and help her sort of at least hit the ball, hit the ball forward.

Took a fair bit of time, as well as trying to maintain your concentration on your game as well.

Sounds painful.

I admire your patients.

If you can get through that, well.

I think that's one good part about being a teaching pro as well, as you've got to have the patience and at the level where if you're not on the main circuit where you get to play with the pros all the time, so you've got to play on a pro am circuit.

You come across that, and if you're someone who's not not got that patience or done that level of experience of teaching, it can be quite hard.

But doing it as I have, it's quite easy.

Okay, Well, more power to you, my friend.

That's crazy.

Well, are there any things about touring school Q School?

The tour school in Q school are the same things right, yes, okay, go ahead.

We probably have different names for it.

You see this tour school week, call it as Q School.

Okay, So are there any things that surprised you when you first when you did your first one that you weren't anticipating.

Yeah, I think the more the business like approach that all the pros have, Whereas when we play on the little pro am circuit that we've got here, we're all friends and we all get along and we all.

Go have a drink afterwards and all that.

Whereas when I went up to Q School, it was all business, which is understandable.

We're all playing for.

Our futures, so we all go into our own things.

But what happens, I mean, what kind of how did their attitudes change?

How do they change?

I guess getting your game face on?

That's it.

That's basically it.

This is your playing for your life and if you might around now, there's there's no turning back.

You go out, you play golf for the best of your ability, and and you.

Go out and try.

I'm not saying that they weren't trying, but you just have this different, different approach, very interesting, where every shot counts, every shot counts.

And you are teaching, You were, you were earning some money doing teaching as well.

Not at the moment I'm having I'm having enough fun doing the cleaning at the restaurant and playing afterwards.

Yeah, and practice, So I really don't have time for teaching.

So what's your strength in your game?

Not in your cleaning, but what is what is your strength of your game that makes you feel like you're This can set you apart and make you good enough to play professionally.

I hit the ball very straight.

Ooh nice, I don't.

I don't hit the ball very long.

I would say I probably average around two sixty yards in your terminology, sure, but I hit it very straight.

I don't miss too many fairways, I don't miss too many greens.

If there's parts that I can look at, which playing tournaments helps you do, because if you're not learning, there's no point playing golf.

So short game's got a bit of work to do, pitching and chipping, and that's having your podcast has helped me that way.

There's been some great people with I pick up little tips all the time from your podcast, whether it be even Dennis with the hands going back, hands going forward, or Tony Manzoni who with the body turn and also with mental with Joseph parent and that you pick up tips all the time.

And if you're not learning, not learning, as I said, you're not playing golf, and just short game and putting.

They're the only two parts that I've really got to pick up on to help me get to the next level.

You know, it seems like at any level, the short game and putting is what's going to hold most people back.

Oh.

Absolutely, you can't afford to three part at the top level.

No, and I did.

I was well to say that I only had one three part at the thirty six holes in the last tournament was pretty good, but that three point eventually cost me the.

Cut.

And that three part was only from ten feet because I got a little bit aggressive.

Oh yeah, three pint from sixty seventy feet, I understand, But from ten feet that's painful.

Yep, hit at about three or four feet, pass and then miss it coming back.

So I guess for that level you want to stay under thirty puts, under twenty eight puts around Where do you want to be as far as the number of parts you haven't.

Around under thirty?

Under thirty?

Yeah, I think I think for a pro you need to be between twenty seven and thirty and you got to hit a lot of fairways and greens, a lot of fairways, a lot of greens, unless you're.

Bubba Watson.

And then you just hit it far.

Then you just hit it anywhere and just make it up as you go along.

That's how it appears to me.

Anyway.

Do you find him to be one of the more creative people on playing today?

Oh?

Absolutely?

That hook shot from a from the trees that Augusta was just unbelievable.

Yeah.

I don't think I've seen anyone play that type of shot.

Maybe maybe Tiger might have the ability to do it when he was on top right, but no he was.

That was believable.

So you hit it straight.

But are you accurate?

Yes?

Because that there's two Those are two different things, aren't they?

They are two different things.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Yesterday when I played the pre qualification for the Perth International, I hit fifteen grains.

Wow, yeah, I had.

I had full three parts, but that's in a different environment.

When you've only got four guys going through, you have to go.

Full ball all day.

So you're very aggressive, very aggressive, a lot more aggressive than what you would be normally interesting.

Well, what do you tell somebody?

I had an email today from a listener and thank you very much for listening.

I'm flattered that you've you've found some useful information on the podcast.

That's that's really nice.

But here's somebody who's been listening for a while and he says, no, matter what I've tried, and he's written this before, and he cracks me up.

Open stands, closed stands, stand so the ball stand far from the ball, weight on my heels, wait on my toes, wide stands, narrow stands, taking a long backswing.

He's so frustrated.

And you know, when I was saying, well what about your short game?

How are you doing?

He goes, I just want to hit it longer and straighter.

Right, how is that really the goal?

You want to hit longer and straighter I mean straighter, yes, But is longer really the ultimate goal for players who are getting up in age?

Well, it depends on what level you want to be.

I found that I was about twenty to thirty yards short of where I needed to be to be on the Asian circuit.

And that's just on your drives you talk to just on my drives.

Yeah, I would think it's like that's where the distance is.

The most important is that first shot, but after that you've got a lot of other clubs in your bag to help you out.

Absolutely, and that's where short short game is priority.

But to that guy that you've just asked.

Me about, Stu you're listening, I think that's where the US Tour and other tours sort of promote that sort of thing where they put a high emphasis on Bubba hitting at three hundred and fifty yards or three hundred and sixty yards, so when people go out, they want to hit that long ball and don't realize that it doesn't matter so long as I can find a way to get the ball in the hole and.

The fewest shots possible.

Whether it's being able to get up and down from fifty meters all the time, or I only hit my drives two hundred meters but I hit them straight and then hit the next one on the green and hold apart, I don't honestly, I don't think it matters.

But I think the US well I'm just specifying the US too, but there are other tours out there that you hear When Gary McColl and plaid a cost us all the time saying, Wow, he's hit that three hundred ninety yachts, and I think that's just makes everyone else go, well, I need to hit at that fine.

And it even affected made to that point.

I spent probably last yeh on a chase yachtich where where I shouldn't have.

I should have been focusing in other areas.

Absolutely, And you know, it makes me think that maybe, just maybe that this emphasis on distance is part is part of what's contributing to so many people leaving the game.

You know.

I mean there's no golf courses being built in this country.

There was this huge, uh you know, onslaught of construction being done because they wanted to make longer courses and longer courses and seven thousand yard courses.

And most people, you know, they're quitting.

They're like, I can't play this, can't hit it.

Well I can't, you know.

And so with all this emphasis on going along all the time, maybe that's what's turning people away from it.

I've got to disagree with you on that point, Fred, please.

I actually think it's the length of time that we're taking.

To play golf.

Turning people away.

I think so.

Yes, so how do we do how do we fix that?

Honestly don't know to.

I know that yesterday when I played, we took five hours in a full ball to play eight eight holes.

That's too long.

That's too long, and that's basically four pros.

And actually touring golf, especially today, it seems to take more than four hours to play around on when they were watching on television.

And that's where the PGA Tour and and other tours have to lead.

By example, you see the guys on TV and they take forever to find out their yardage and their caddy and them talking over whether or not to hit this club, what it is to get over this bunker and all that, and it's just I think if the tours clamp down a lot harder than what they do on bad times and pushing people through, then it'll go down to amateurs because all they do on tour is they just find guys.

And when you're at that level, thousand and two thousand dollars doesn't really mean anything to them.

But if they started, if they started taking adding shots to their game.

So let's say guys on the number or one in front of the cart and they give him a two straight penalty and now he's missed the cart.

That'll change things, that's what I believe.

Oh, that's an interesting thought.

Instead of penalizing them financially, penalize them on their card.

Penalize them on their card, and once they start missing carts because they start getting penalties, then they'll start speeding up.

Yeah, but they need the time for those commercials to pay for the broadcast.

It's got nothing to do with that, Fred.

No, No, they'd find a way to get it in.

I'm sure they would.

They just they just fool around doing like you have the yardage book, and there's so much information on the yardage book of from this sprinkler.

It's that it's two hundred yards to carry that bunker, and it's like, well, sometimes you need it, but then the caddy and the player go through.

Well do I lay up short of it or do I go over?

What's the advantage of going over?

Can I get it up and down from that area?

Or am I better off laying back and hitting a full shot in.

It's so those other sort of things that take the time.

So interesting.

Well, Darren, I wish you all the luck on the entire planet.

In the world and hope that we get to see your name in the newspaper on a regular basis.

Thank you, Fred.

But you need one before you go.

You've got it for Richard.

What's the name of the restaurant.

We got to plug the restaurant?

Well, actually, and I need to plug the restaurant because it's the biggest phosphoid chine in the world.

Oh, it's the one with the golden oches.

Oh okay?

And does he have more than one that you work at?

I just work at one, but hey has more than one?

Well, Richard, thank you, that's very kind of you for being so generous and letting Darren get his game on and hopefully become a success.

Andie's wife Annie as well, And.

Thank you Annie.

Richard and Annie, we appreciate that.

So when you're playing, you're wearing a McDonald's shirt.

Huh, I am Do.

You have name tag that has a little on it as well as your name on it?

Only at work?

Only at work?

And have you ever asked any of your playing partners if they wanted fries with that?

Not?

If I can help with Darren?

Thanks so much.

I really appreciate you reaching out because I find this to be an absolutely fascinating story, and I hope that you have great success with this.

Thank you, Fred, it's been enjoyable, and.

Thank you for listening to my pleasure.

Maybe we'll get you a Golf Smarter shirt to wear someday on the tour.

That would be very nice.

I would enjoy that immensely.