Hey, Welcome to Earsay, the iHeart and Audible Audiobook Club, where each episode we dive into a different audible title with your favorite podcast hosts and special guests.

I'm Keel Penn, the author of You Can't Be Serious, and I'm.

Ed Helm's, host of the Snapoo podcast and also author of the Snapho book.

Oh, and I also read the Snapoo audio book.

I also read my audio book.

It is funny that not everybody does.

Yeah, yeah, no, but we're legit.

We're rolling old school.

The new season of snaffoh is rolling out right.

Yes, it is, Thank you so much, and I'm super excited about this season because there's a little format update.

As snafuo fans will know, it's a deep dive into some historical screw ups.

This season.

I'm bringing on guests and I walk my guests through a brand new historical screw up every episode and it's just incredibly fun.

It's been a blast so far.

And congrats to you, my friend, because your podcast just came out this week.

Thank you.

Yes, it's called Here we Go Again, which you are an executive producer on, and we look at things like the new Space Race with my friend Bill Nye or why things keep collapsing with my friend Pete Boodhagic.

So we have all these conversations with people about things in history or pop culture summer obviously very silly.

Others are are kind of dire, but why they keep repeating themselves?

And so the hope is that we do it in a way that's uplifting and hopeful and kind of fun, which you know these days, I feel like is a good.

Thing and also incredibly informative.

And I think you have a very uplifting voice.

I don't use this voice in the podcast.

I use a very I use it very raspy, weird.

This is the voice welcome to here we go again.

That's a strange Joyce.

Thanks, it's honestly, it's off putting.

But if I support you, thank you for your unconditional or somewhat conditional support.

Well, let's turn to our story for today, Fabulous.

We're jumping into a heart pounding world ravaged by natural disasters and unexplainable weather events, where the stories of the Bible are not allegorical or historical, they're a prophecy for things that will take place today.

We're discussing season two of the Audible original series The Prophecy.

Ooh, that's a loaded title.

Not only is a title loaded, this is a high stakes chase across a crumbling world.

If you know season one, you know this full of divine guidance, political intrigue, global conspiracies, and characters that are ripped right out of the Bible with some kind of subtle and other times not so subtle changes.

So if you haven't listened to this season yet, you should pause this.

By the way, if if you've not listened, this is just all going to be spoilers.

Go listen to season two and then come back.

And if it's been a while since you checked out the first season of The Prophecy, let me catch you up real quick.

So.

Season one centers around a pregnant woman plagued by prophetic visions named doctor Virginia Edwards played by the incredible Kerry Washington.

She seeks out a federal agent named Scott Thomas played by Laurence Fishburn.

She claims that all of these global catastrophes and weather events are part of some ancient prophecy, and Agent Thomas is doubtful.

You could call him a doubting Thomas Virginia and Agent Thomas meet other people right out of the Bible, like Daniel and Jonah.

Virginia gives birth to a healthy son named Joshua, which is notable because it wasn't medically possible for her to conceive and the baby only just stated for seven weeks.

By the end of the season, Agent Thomas has accepted that Virginia and her baby are central to some kind of real prophecy.

Then we step into season two.

The world is in chaos, Virginia is on the run with Joshua.

A man named Moses has revealed that billionaire presidential candidate Luther Bell is the leader of a shadowy cult and the main threat to Virginia.

Hi, Virginia, do you know who I am?

Luther Bell?

You're a fascinating woman.

You don't know me.

All I want is to get to know you.

I mean, first of all, Kerry Washington is always impeccable.

Of course, the sound design in this show, especially this season.

Hear it in the voices, right, the depth that was of that that sounded evil?

Yes, right, yes, And that's Luther Bell is played by young Carlo Esposito.

Correct, there was kind of a gene Hackman vibe there.

Oh totally.

Who's played some great villains, great heroes too, But of course these performances are exciting.

They're exceptional.

So Virginia and the allies she's collected set out on a desperate global journey to flee the relentless pursuit of this Luther Bell.

How how can so many people miss the truth about the prophecy?

My son wasn't born to be the puppet for a rich man's cult.

Joshua is here to unite us.

Bell won't rest until he has Joshua.

You need to get ready.

Whoa yeah, Bell giving strong Harod vibes there, This is exciting.

Cal take it away, my friend, and I will take it away this one.

Thank you, my friend.

All right.

So for this one, we had to go to the source, the prophecies creator a Randy McKinnon.

Randy, welcome to yours.

Say thanks for having me, Thanks for having me.

Yeah, of course.

Where are you joining from today?

I'm in Los Angeles?

Okay, what about yourself?

My former home?

I went to UCLA undergrad.

I'm in New York.

Oh nice, that's my other home.

I went to Syracuse so.

Oh nice, Okay, cool, Okay, before we get into it.

This is more of a personal curiosity.

But what are you reading or listening to right now?

I started actually Project Hill Mary recently Andy Ware.

Obviously they're doing a movie right now, but I always wanted to check it out, and so I'm finding time to dive into that one that's been really exciting.

Another that I like, it's actually the one called Someone Like Us.

Why This is riter at Denal and Getsu and it's like about this journalist.

He's like the son of these Ethiopian immigrants and hecky into like this crazy complicated history.

It's a bit dark, but it's really really good read.

Those have been my latest reads that I've been diving into.

Cool nice mine is I'm halfway through, but it's called The Perfect Scent of It and it's about the perfume industry.

But it's written by a New York Times style author, so it doesn't read technically, and half the story follows Sarah Jessica Parker launching her own cologne.

But then the other half of it is very technical about how perfume's coming together.

It's fascinating.

That's really cool.

I'm gonna ask a bonus question that's kind of a version of this too.

Do you remember what you were reading or listening to when you created the prophecy?

Ooh, interesting enough.

You know I actually created this during the pandemic, so I was listening to Doctor Fauci actually, and all the madness that was happening in our world, you know that seemed to have no around my reason.

What I will say though, is when I started thinking of the prophecy and was diving into it.

There's this book that I had for a while, but I didn't really dive into it fully until this time.

I had so much time during the pandemic.

But it was called a Righteous Discontent by Evelyn Higginbotham, and it really kind of breaks down the role that black women had and shaping the Baptist Church essentially through activism both politically and theologically too.

And I was like, I know, you worked with the Obama administration, so you know this history intimately.

But I'm from the South originally, so the church in so many ways serves like a multitude of purposes for me and my community growing up, So like summer school, vacation, Bible school, you know, for some people, actual school.

But I think it was just like a fascinating breakdown of just how influential these black women were in shaping our society.

And so, for those that know, the premise of the Prophecy is centered around a black woman in Carrie Washington, who becomes this essential peace in the fight for humanity, right, but deep down, it actually became a way for me to sort of recognize this contribution that I I think you're reading.

That book really really opened my eyes to even more.

That kind of gave me chills a little bit.

I did not anticipate as much as I know before we talked.

I didn't recognize the pandemic part of it.

And the episodes are obviously so vivid and in some ways so post apocalyptic is the wrong word, I think for what I'm trying to say, But anyway, the point is I was here in New York City during the whole pandemic, and so many people in certain zip codes were able to leave because they had the financial means, and so I just remember taking walks through some of those neighborhoods and feeling really eerie.

Then walking through places like Times Square that are always packed and no New Yorkers actually go there usually, but when you walk through if you're going for a walk, seeing how desolate it was, I didn't recognize why some of your episodes, especially for season two, felt familiar.

And I know that's a weird thing to say because it's all audio, but hearing you just talk about the pandemic gave me that sense memory again and kind of tied it into what I was listening to.

Yeah, I mean, it's sometimes even listening back to it now, it's sort of wild, like you know, you kind of timestamp the places you are creatively when you're having these conversations.

And it was such a unique time because when I was writing this, there wasn't, you know, a vaccine.

There wasn't an end in sight.

There wasn't there wasn't a strategy, there wasn't a plan of action.

It was more reactionary.

We were all trying to understand what was even happening.

And so for those who listened to the first season, but even a second season, you kind of recognize that, like, oh, that's literally the trajectory of our characters in the story is that they all sort of like you, standing in a space that was so familiar but now feels so unfamiliar and that's such a unique space because I've worked on shows that were apocalyptic, you know.

I've worked on the show on Apple called Invasion about alien invasions, and so I've dove into those worlds, but this was the first time it's actually like, you know, Ariumtag's life where I'm actually like, oh no, it actually is apocalypt outside right now.

So it makes the writing a bit different, But it did feel like it came from an honest place that I think really helped it in the long run.

Yeah, that origin story is interesting, and so you created the show, you wrote it, you served as executive producer.

I have to imagine that, and you just talked about how kind of the story came to you.

But I would imagine that stories from the Bible have been in your life for a long time.

What's your relationship been to the Bible since you were a kid man?

You know, I grew up in the church, so I had to know the Bible very intimately, but creatively.

Always wanted to reimagine the Bible.

So when I first started writing and got into this industry and broke in, I was always something in the front of my mind.

I just always wanted to find the right way in I wanted to create a cinematic universe like Marvel, buffer Biblical stories like said in present day.

And you know, I have like a unapologetic belief.

I say, like, I believe the Bible is like the greatest text and on the man, I think it has the greatest protagonist, and Jesus, I think has the greatest antagonist, has the greatest recurring characters.

Some writers wear about Shakespeare, and I do too it to an extent, But the Bible for me is like the pinnacle of storytelling.

And so that literally from the onset.

It was such a unique experience of taking all these Bible studies to memorize all the books.

It was just you know, all those things, and I finally be able to traumatize it in a way.

Was such a really cool experience.

And so my relation to the Bible is extremely close.

It's extremely intimate, extremely personal for me.

It sounds into me even for those of us who didn't grow up in that environment.

I remember, you know, my grandparents were very secular, but in this sense of like they grew up Hindu and Jaine in India and lived through in sort of fought against British colonialism, And so when we were growing up, the stories that we would hear were very pro faith in a way that I sadly haven't heard much nowadays.

But it was things like, oh, you're friends in writting you to go to church, you have to go.

Your friends abutting you to go to a mosque or your synagogue or whatever.

The grandparents would be like, you have to go.

And then in tenth grade, I remember we were reading in my honors English class, thank you.

It was the Bible as literature, and I remember a couple of students who did not share my view or my upbringing.

We're like, why do we have to read this?

What about suparation of church and state?

And I thought that was so it was such a weird thing, like, well, first of all, we're reading it as this incredible story that it obviously is.

I feel like that's fairly it's fairly objective, even if you're just like approaching it from a business perspective.

Look at the sales numbers of the Bible last year, like you should read the book, you know.

But anyway, after all of that kind of drama around, it was gone and we really got into it.

It was ironic.

I thought that we were reading it intimately in a public school setting in a way that I thought really compliment to the times that my friends would invite me to the more religious affairs and services and things like that.

So it was very cool to get those sides of it.

But it was not until I started listening to this that I remembered some of that intimacy too, because so much of that intimacy is feeling for my friends who have grown up in the faith, and so getting that feeling I thought was cool.

And then I also was like, Okay, so obviously Virginia is a marry analog, which is New Testament.

Most of her allies Moses, Daniel Sampson, Delilah our Old Testament.

Joshua, Virginia's baby shares the name of a book from the Old Testament, but he's also a christ like figure.

Were they separated out like that intentionally?

Yes, it was intentional, and I think partly because I really wanted to set the tone and the boundaries for I would say my creative license on the project, you know, because I think and I don't want to make it clear like I have no intent or believe that the Bible needs to rewrite of anything.

I sort of look at it like a family recipe that's passed down from generations, you know, like the ingredients may shift around a bit as you know, you discover new techniques, but usually what you want to capture is sort of like I like to call it the ratitude evite, you know what I mean.

At the end, it's like, you know, it's really that nostalgia, right, It's that feeling that you said, like, oh, I recognize that.

I recognize the feeling in that I recognized thematically what that is, and that, to me, honestly is what makes the Bible so special to me and why I felt it was such a great piece of IP to dive into because it really allows us to have an individual experience with it.

And so the mix of the Old and New Testament, because it's present day, I felt there was an opportunity that I could bring them all in and kind of rewrite those rules.

Obviously, if it were a period piece, I think it may calls for more restraint.

I think the only thing I would say, the only hard line that I really have for the show was actually using the name Jesus.

And if you kind of go through the show, you'll realize, like the characters don't necessarily say the name Jesus, and I didn't want to make Jesus a character, and they were just something that felt too powerful.

And sort of reverenced kind of right the name.

I remember like the show air, you know, they never showed Michael Jordan at you never showed his face, and I remember asking the producer on anybody, I don't know, it's just like you can't really reimagine.

I could like he already has a space and I kind of look at, yeah, Jesus in that same way.

So you know, the Hebrew name of the Lord is Joshua, and it's like, so that's why Carrie carry Washington.

We felt that was sort of the best name to land on.

And so those are some of the ways in which we wanted to take and kind of reset the rules so that the listeners aren't saying.

Well, wait is that though.

It's like, Okay, we can kind of take a step back and say, Okay, we're enjoying this.

He's going to bring these thematics and he's going to bring this world to us, like you said, in a way that we can digest it today.

Carrie is incredible.

You just mentioned Kerry Washington, the prophecy.

Overall, you have serious star power in this.

Carrie stars as Virginia.

Lawrence Fishburne is agent Thomas.

John Carlo Esposito is Luther Bell, the billionaire, mastermind, bad guy.

He's very good at being sinister.

Yes, did you have any of these roles cast in your head as you were writing that ship?

Did that all happen afterwards?

Kerry Washington was actually the first name that I brought up to the producers when I pitched it.

She's obviously incredibly talented, but I think her relatability was something that I felt the role needed, and so I realized that you needed someone who can play I like to say, you know, you know the black swan and the white Swan.

Right, It's like, who can kind of go into all those different elements, Right?

This story really has a pretty complex character journey.

Right.

There's this woman in Virginia and our protagonist who coming into this world, you know, she doesn't want children, and then you have a woman who understands the joy of motherhood and desires that, right, and so she's playing both sides, and in many ways, both sides have to be right, because they are in real life, right until to have someone sort of wrestling that, you need to have a character who can really come to both places with empathy.

And so Carrie, you know, she's done that over her career.

I think that relatability factor, right, I think really good act as they have it.

Cali, I think you know not too, Johne.

I think you have that quality.

I mean I'll listen to it, you know.

Like look, I think, like you know, one of your movies in my back on the shelf.

So it's like to find success in the industry, especially in a film, an avid movie, but to still find a way to feel relatable on screen.

I think it's a grossly underrated quality.

And so Carrie was the first person we went to.

Actually she said yes, and she's been so instrumental in this and every you know and everyone else.

To be honest, like, I tried not to cast him in my head because it's a podcast, so the budgets aren't the same.

But I couldn't help but see Lawrence Fishburn's character from Contagion, like literally as I was writing Agent Thomas in this, and so he was one that came in and just with John Carlo, like especially in the second season.

I know obviously people think breaking bad and he plays bad really well, but I think it would make that character so great was that he again was so relatable, he felt so normal, and honestly I thought of and out for the Spike zo the right thing.

It was just like that range is like I think that character needs that, and then like to see him connect to the story, and I remember him just recording it just was like like wow, like you know what I mean.

It was just kind of pitching myself moment.

When you were writing for this it's an audio only medium, I would imagine, well, I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I wrote a book a couple of years ago, and when I was recording the audiobook version of it, I ran into a couple of challenges because my book has pictures in it, and most of them are pretty self deprecating.

It's like me when I was thirteen, and how ridiculous I looked, and like things that that kind of accentuated a joke that I would put in writings.

When I was recording the audiobook version of it, we had to figure out like do I describe it?

Do I just say just google this picture, like go to my Instagram and you'll see it or what.

So for me, it was challenging to not be able to rely on the visuals.

Was it like that for you in doing it audio only from the beginning where it's not meant to be read, And did it activate any other storytelling muscles in the process.

Oh?

Yeah, that's you know, like it kind of brings up flashbacks.

You know, it was a struggle in the beginning.

The Prophecy was my first time writing for this medium, and as someone who predominantly writes screenplays, which is literally a visual format, initially it was very difficult because I would kind of see things visually and then allow that to tell the story, and in this space it's literally the complete opposite, and so in doing so it was a challenge, but it was It was a great challenge because I would say, like the muscle that I really learned, it really heightened my sense of just space and like using time and sound, and like my senses felt so heightened.

Like you know, I used to do this exercise when I wrote it.

I had someone literally read my script out loud, so they would read the Prophecy scripts out loud to me, and I would have my eyes closed.

I would close my eyes, and so the goal was that while I was listening, you know, with my eyes closed, it had to feel as though they were open with the imagery and the flow.

And so it'll be a mo where it's like, Okay, you have characters on the train, and yeah, these sequences are happening in your mind.

When you're writing, I see it, but when someone's listening, you don't.

And so to be able to kind of listen to those action sequences and get to the point where it's like, oh, I'm vividly seeing it even as I'm hearing it, that was sort of the goal, and interesting enough, it actually helped my writing.

When I even went back to the standard sort of TV and film, it actually helped heighten it even more because I felt like my awareness was extremely poiint at that point.

The sound design made everything feel really intimate.

I listened to audiobooks and podcasts, but I hadn't quite listened to something like this that made me feel an intimacy with the story.

Right when you're listening to a memoir or a firsthand podcast, like a podcast interview, it's different because of course there's intimacy there because you just feel like you're one of the friends in a conversation.

The intimacy here felt different.

I already told you about the weird flashbacks to not realizing the COVID of it.

All, Right, what was the process that sound designing like?

And then are there moments in the finished product that stand out to you as a reflection of the audio works that your team did?

Yeah?

Yeah, for sure.

So I directed the first season, but we brought in two creatives, Malachi and one of our writers, DeAndre, who I think really took my vision out off for season two and ran with it.

And one of the first.

Meeting we had was a sound design meeting, and some of the references I remember us having coming into the season was like the Book of Eli, like Doune, Children of Men.

How can we take these epic sort of sound design elements and to really really infuse it into this story in a way, and like, you know, this is in many ways, this is a road trip thriller, right.

Season two is a road trip thriller in many ways, which differs from season one.

And so the goal that I kind of set out for the team was like, how can we take and elevate the story and to keep it for netic and to keep it feel like it's in movement.

And so season two, I wanted to feel kinetic.

I wanted to feel that something was always hovering over them, that there was this impending sort of crisis that was always at stake.

And so the team did an amazing job and I'm excited everyone to hear it.

And I think, you know the train sequences, I would say sit out to me the most, and people hear it on the first episode of the second season, especially going into the second episode, it is really really exciting.

I'm a as an actor, especially big fan of like psychologically complicated relationships.

I just saw this movie Twinless last night.

Excellent Dilan O'Brien, fantastic actor.

But it was.

All a total non secular just it was a very psychologically complicated one of the characters, without giving anything away, psychologically complicated.

Here, I want to talk about Virginia's husband, Ryan Oh Ryan so Yes.

In the first season, he's skeptical that his wife became pregnant by immaculate conception, which you know fair.

In season two, he buys into Luther Bell and betrays Virginia.

Eventually he comes around.

I found him to be a hard guy to like, fair enough.

What I'm wondering is, did you dislike him as you were writing him.

What was the experience of writing somebody that complicated?

Yeah, you know, poor Ryan.

It's funny you address that because I have so many people that has the same sort of feelings that you have.

But I guess to answer your question, it was a complicated question, right, And which is why I like his character so much, because you know, at first I was like, dang, he just turns on her when she needs him the most.

And then like I was like, you know, let's take a step back and Ryan land for a second.

You kind of stated it right that he went through the journey.

It's like this, his wife just appeared saying, Hey, I'm pregnant and it's not yours.

It's right.

And that's that that alone, right on the surface, right, if you think of in present day context, right, But deeper than that, especially in season two, when you think about all the other characters that's around him, Ryan is the only one who doesn't have a direct premonition from God, so everyone else kind of comes in from Moses or there's Virginia saying, hey, God places on my hard to do you know.

So it's almost like sitting in a circle of everyone else having this sort of awakening and realization and you have to just say, trust him, right, And so he's just trusting his wife who just had a baby, claiming maclcxception and that she's also you know Mary.

And so for Ryan, he in many ways was the most vulnerable, and he always was from the start.

And I think that what makes Luther Bell's character in this as an antagonist, I feel, a really great antagonist.

You know, they can find the weak spots, they can find the cracks in the armor.

And he knew that for Virginia, she was growing this very fierce protector over her child, and so he had to find a ways to get in right.

How does he infiltrate person right?

And Ryan was the most vulnerable, His faith was the weakest, and so I wanted to give him a human reaction because that was part of the challenge of this series, was really thinking about it in present day.

Can I believe that, like you know, there are some people that would find the events of what happened about but to be crazy, And there's a lot of husbands that would really struggle with accepting getting You know that Virtinia's handing him right, right, So I think it's okay to not like his decision.

But at the same time, I just asked that we also take a step back and to see what he's being asked to accept m And I think when you kind of look at it from that way, it becomes an interesting sort of dilemma for him.

By the way, I'm not saying you have to like anybody.

I mean I was on a show called House for a couple of seasons, and generally speaking, if you look at the quadrants of what studios say we need in terms of likability, House is not necessarily a likable person, but that's what makes him watchable at all.

So I'm not suggesting that anybody needs to be likable.

The compound in New Orleans serves as a safe haven for all those the system failed.

Yeah, what was the inspiration behind this community?

This show?

In many ways, and it's always been for me at his core, It's been a show about a second chance.

You know, whether as small as our characters is Moses.

As people will learn in season two, even you sort of get to understand his true backstory.

Even with Virginia.

It was really important for these characters to be people who are in search of a second chance in some way, right, even the world itself is searching for a second chance or reset.

And so it was honestly one.

Of the storylines and conceits that I would say it was the most personal for me because I tend to live in optimism.

That's that sort of my default, and I try to believe that something even challenging can be changed, you know, I look, I think if not, it kind of taints my very own existence, right, It's like I have to exist me as a filmmaker.

Part of the is too spark and promote change in some way, even if a small kernel, And so I'm often drawn to redemptive characters who's either misunderstood searching for a second chance.

And I have to say that this safe Haven represent in it that in many ways, it's an allegory of hope, that there's a place that people can call home.

And for me specifically, it was Louisiana in the South, because, as I mentioned, I'm from the South, and so the South has some really different perspectives and beliefs that I don't necessarily agree with, but it's also home.

It's also home to my family, and in many ways it's my safe haven for me.

Right.

I know that although I'm out in LA thousands of miles away, I know that at the end of the day, I can always go back and my family will always embrace me, They'll always fill my cup.

And so for me, it was sort of my way of.

Expressing the complicated love story that I do have with the South personally.

That's very cool.

Where's your family from?

Yeah, so we've all lived in between Florida and Georgia.

Yeah, so all my family is down in the South, up and down.

Do you go home a lot?

I try to, but yeah, I go home off them.

My parents are in Atlanta, and so I try to go home often between you know, with the Jacksonville, Miami and then all through through Georgia.

So I try to get home a bit.

But you know, everyone sort of liked la.

Oh, yeah, they visit you.

Yeah exactly, So it kind of changed a bit where everyone's like trying to come to I'm like, I'll come at home.

They're like, no, actually we'll come to you.

You see them though.

That's nice of course of course.

Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

All right.

We're going to do a few quick rapid fire questions in a segment that we're calling a plot twist, and this one's based on the incredible world that you've created, so really heavily biased questions.

I think.

You mentioned Moses.

Moses can hot wire cars, which is very useful, especially during a global cataclysmic scenario.

What skills do you have or would you like to have in a post disaster world?

Yeah, I would rather say what skill I would like to have.

I would want the digestive system of a crocodile or something.

It sounds so random, but it's like I can eat anything and survive.

That's part of what I feel like I would deal with now because I have like allergies and like food sensitivities.

I'm like, man, I'll tap out so fast, like living in that world, so like for me, it'll be like I can literally digest and eat anything, and so like I would probably, which is a not I say it a lot.

It's a very selfish sort of perspective, but I mean.

I mean, we're talking at the end of the world.

You kind of you can be selfish.

Every person on there is like I'm just gonna grab myself of my family, and it's like, look, I could digest anything, so you can put me in a while.

Okay, if you could choose just one of your characters to be with you as an ally in this health scheme, who would it be?

Oh, that's easy, Joshua, because that's that's the safest bet in this show.

Nothing doesn't happened to Joshua.

So touch me with the baby like a Chilian.

I always say, the camera man never dies, so like, gosh, was the cameraman to me?

Right?

So I'm tied to the camera there, all right.

Luther Bell is maybe a personification of the devil, but you got to hand it to him.

He makes a compelling case for his new world order that ends crime and war and prejudice.

Is there ever a bad guy in a movie or a book or an audio drama that makes you think, huh, that guy has a point?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean one thousand percent.

I think a few come to mind.

I would say, like three, let's let go three.

I would say the first is the Joker from specifically The Dark Knight.

Mm hmm, by the way, I'm an interrupting for a second.

It's funny you said that because I when I was looking through our questions for our conversation, I thought of Batman because the difference between like the purity of a superman and the going out of your way to spare any innocent people is just not there in Batman, particularly in specific iterations of it.

Yeah, and you kind of got to be like, well, I guess that's okay too, but anyway ahead, it's tough.

No, it's a tough buy.

And I think, like for me, if I started to almost find myself green and siding with a lot of what he Fleder specifically his character did, so I would say, I would say the Jokers one.

Another one I would say is probably kill Monger from the First Black Panther.

Kill Monger was a really, really great one because it just it represented so much and I think it just tapped into such a global debate that's happened, especially the black community.

Then I always thought, like, you know, might killed that role.

And so that's the second and the other one.

I'll probably say it whil is be a little different.

It's we all probably know it as a movie but obviously I would say from a book, I would say Jaws.

I would say Jaws like the actual shark, like the actual shark to me.

And I thought about this a lot.

And it's funny you say that because we have these talks about intact all the time, and I thought about this a while back.

And if you really think about a shark.

For the most of the year, right, people trash and pollute your home, right like dangle, they're ugly feeding your water, they play loud music, right, the boats and motors.

Some even hurt your family and turn their teeth and the necklaces.

So like when you really.

Think about just like a shark is like it's not like sharks can walk, So it's like they're knocking on our doors, coming to bother us, like we're actually going out to them, and then we villainize them at the same time.

Yes, they're a fish, you know what I mean.

So it's like we jumped into the home and kind of are telling them how they should.

Operate, which is very human like of us.

But yeah, I would say I would say Jaws is probably my most unexpected villain that I actually understand more because I as somebody who doesn't go into water.

Because of that reason, I side with the sharks.

And you just floored me because you made a very compelling guess for that.

There's a wow.

Okay, all right, I just have two more best words to live by from this season A favorites.

Yeah, you know, I do.

And we were actually working on the trailer for this and there was a line that Virginia says, and she says, like, we walk by faith and not by sight.

And I think, interesting enough, obviously even with this man the podcast usually not seeing it, but I think just true to what this world is and true to life.

It really tests your sense of belief and faith and sort of like not being able to see what's on the other side of the.

Door, but to walk through it anyways.

And I think it really pushes that sense of courage, and that's what Virginia really represents for not only this world in these characters, but there's a lot of uncertainty, so you have to have that strong belief in something better being on the other side of the door.

And so I would say those words for this season, for her journey, you know, for the journey of season two especially, they're headed to a place that's said to be the Promised Land, but we don't know if it actually is or not.

I like that and I like that it's hopeful.

All right, I'll end with a version of what I started with, what's next on your reading list?

And what's one audiobook or traditional reading recommendation?

Oh?

Good question, next time I reading list.

Actually, the book comes in tomorrow actually, and it's called Until August.

It's by Gabrielle Marquez iviously, the famous Columbian author who you know obviously has passed.

It's not like one hundred years of Solitude and Loving the time of the Colera.

And it's the one that I'm excited to read because it's just came out last year, I believe, actually, so it came out posthumously, and so I'm excited to read that.

That would say, that'd probably be my next read and the thing that I'm looking forward to listening to next.

Speaking of a new audible project, I should be smarter now about Terra.

I'm actually excited to check that out.

Yeah, it's like it basically lets us into our creative process and all this stuff.

And I'm obviously a really big support of Lisa, and I love everything that she's she's doing and has done, and so I think it'd be great to live in her brain for a bit.

So I think that's actually probably audio or book, which everyone will phrase it as that.

I'm really excited to check out.

Awesome, right on, Brandy, this has been great.

I especially appreciate.

I feel like you're such an empathetic person, which is rare, but especially when you're in that awkward position of having to talk about something that you've created, right, like to be able to do it because people who just listen don't know that.

Sometimes for us that feels a little awkward.

Like you obviously want to do it because it's your job and you're proud of your work.

But to do it in a way that's also thoughtful and empathetic I think is rare.

So thank you for thank you, Thank you for sharing that part of you.

Thank you so much.

It's just nice having you on ears.

Say so, thanks man, nice to talk to you.

Likewise, this is great experience and great gay talking to you.

And this is like a nice little Pinchman moment as well.

I'm just living in these pinch mean moments man, So this is this is quite easy to be empathetic and oh, you.

Know, to get these experiences in life.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

Of course.

I am so happy that I got to talk to Randy McKinnon.

That's insane.

You got the creator of the show.

That is so cool.

What an awesome interview that was.

I love how he thought about sound design.

I was geeking out over both that and about the degree to which the characters reflect those in the Bible the ways in which they maybe won't.

He was just so eloquent, and he just sounds like such a centered person.

It was very very cool to hear how he put this together.

I'm going to give you full credit for that.

Cal I think you brought all of that out of him.

Oh man, brilliant interview skills.

The first thing to tell you is an act.

When somebody compliments you, you just have to say thank you.

You can't litigate whether you think it's true or not.

So thank you, Ed, You're welcome, Thank you very much, and thank you for tuning into this episode of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

On our next episode, we'll dive into the new audiobook Night People, How to be a DJ in nineties New York City.

It's a memoir written and read by the record producer and songwriter Mark Ronson.

And we have a very exciting guest drummer, producer, writer Questlove Get the heck out of here.

Yeah, I mean, how cool is that?

It's epic, That's so cool.

I'm very excited to talk to him and what is such a sweet guy.

So that episode is coming Thursday, November sixth If you had fun with us today on your say, consider following the show wherever you listen hearsay.

The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club is a production of Iheart's Ruby Studio, where your hosts Cal.

Penn and Ed Helms.

Our executive producer is Matt Schiltz, with theme music and post production by Marcus Bagala.

For Ruby Studio.

Our managing EP is Matt Romano, our EP of post production is Matt Stillo, and our production coordinator is not named Matt, It's Abby Aguilar.

And of course, a big thank you to our friends at Audible.

Don't forget.

You can listen to what we're listening to on the Audible app or at audible dot com.

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Slash ear say until next time, Thanks for listening.