Today, I'm Binge's Symbol.

We finished our coverage of the Tron series with tron Aries.

Uh, yeah, let's do it.

Welcome to Binge's a Symbol, the podcast where we rewatch movies so you don't have to.

But tonight it's not to rewatch.

It's a new movie.

Whah blah blah wah.

My name is Matthew Carroll and I'm Jay Scottie Sinclair.

What's up, buddy?

How you doing?

We did it?

We did it.

We watched the Tron series.

Yeah.

So, as we often do up top here, we'd like to do a bit of a spoiler free review.

What what do you think of Tron Aries?

Man?

Well, before I give a score, I just want to say this franchise, if nothing else, it's consistent because I feel like, despite whatever shortcomings I'm going to talk about, I was entertain and I had a good time and I like this movie.

Yeah, and I came away with three e's.

Three e's.

You say I came away with three e's, The film is endearing, entertaining, and enthralling.

Mm off despite the shortcomings.

Yeah, but what's a good e shortcoming?

Uh?

Just kidding, I don't know.

Yeah, that fourth sour E like, I.

Don't I don't know, I'm just egotistical.

Yeah, yeah, it is probably that I'm with you.

This movie was fun.

Uh, it's gonna be this is gonna be a hard podcast for me, okay, because I have a very specific This is always bad for It's always bad for podcasting.

I have a very specific issue that was a rock in my shoe in this movie that I feel like I'm gonna harp on too much and we may.

Just Jared leto shaped rock by chance.

No, it wasn't.

In fact, I two thirds of the way into this movie, I thought this might be one of my new favorite movies.

Oh I love the setup and the second act of this movie.

I love it.

I did you see in three D?

By the way?

I did not?

I saw an imax some of the best three D, the like best three D if seen, Like maybe it like rivaled Avatar for me in that it was made for three D.

And you could tell they did a lot with the three D, like the scenes were I mean, especially in the grid, like the scenes were just so deliberate with the three D and it really they did a lot of that, like layered scenes on top of each other when when he's like swimming through all kinds of data and stuff.

It just I felt like the first twenty minutes of the movie, I felt like I was on a ride.

It was that intent.

The three D was that intense, and I was like, wow, like I'm immersed in this three D.

And then nice it took character turns that I just freaking absolute asolutely loved and connected with, and I was like, Wow, this might if this lands the plane, this might be one of my favorite movies.

I absolutely love this.

It is sinking me into the world of Tron Like I was sitting there having a fanboy kind of experience where I was like wow, like I forgot what it was like to go to a movie that I like this much on a first viewing, like I love this.

It was a great experience.

And then it then they then in the last third day, there's a rock in my shoe man, and I won't say I won't say what.

And it's gonna it's gonna sour this podcast because I won't be able to stop talking about it.

But I'll do my best because I do think this movie is incredibly good.

I actually think Jared Leto is great in it.

Like I think he's I don't.

Uh.

I know that Jared Leto has big personal issues.

Uh that I actually don't know anything about.

I know that we talked, I know some of the joker stuff, but I don't really know his other crimes or alleged crimes.

I just don't know.

I don't follow that that's about a sex cult.

Oh really a sex cult?

You said, Yeah, I don't know enough to speak.

Let's speak to it with eloquence.

But those are the reasons.

Let's hear him out.

No, I was kidding.

No, I'm sorry, that's that's an absurdist joke.

I don't want to make light of any any pain anyone went through.

But the I I think he's great in this movie.

I just really really think he fits the role perfectly.

It kind of fits the role perfectly for where I thought the movie was going before it veered in a direction I didn't expect.

And Okay, when I left the theater, I told my buddy, I was watching the movie about our podcast here on the network Monday Morning Movie Medics, right that we haven't done in a while.

But I was like, I might have to revive that podcast just to do this movie because I have a very specific direction I wish it had gone, and I am this is such a it's so I know this about myself that I will obsess over how this movie should have ended forever and I am so disappointed with the way it went.

Uh And then they did.

The rock in my shoe was addressed at one point but quickly forgotten.

If they fully addressed it, it might have been able to land the plane again, but they didn't.

Anyway, That's that.

That's for after the spoiler talk.

Sure, sure, but I got serious like Terminator two vibes from this movie.

There's certain scenes that like and a robot interacting with a human, like on the road scenes that I was just like, this is Terminator too in the best way, like I was feeling I was feeling at big time.

Yeah, And I just there's a scene in it at near the beginning that I openly wept, like I really cried at I really cried.

And that was when I was like, oh, shoot, I'm loving this movie.

Like I'm not just liking it, I'm loving it.

And then that's great.

So I really recommend this movie.

It's really great.

It's a really great outing in the Tron series.

I want more of this series.

I really hope they do double do more.

I don't I know that Jared Leto is not beloved, and like, I'm happy if they move on.

I don't care about them following his character, but I'd like to see I would love to see more of this universe because I do like what they've done with this new iteration.

Yeah, you've got me really excited to get into it and talk about it, but you've also got me excited to see it again because I saw it in IMAX, and I do think that was a phenomenal way to see it.

But I will have to go back and check this thing out in three D.

But I think I can safely say, while we're still in a non spoiler territory you brought up about the allusions to or the thematic similarities to Terminator too there, I will say I think this movie.

It contains some of my favorite moments in Tron, some of my least favorite moments in Tron, but it also did a really good job of just being kind of like a send up of sci fi in general, like we talked about with the first two movies, like the connections and influence on the Matrix obviously, but in addition to Terminator too, like you bring up here there we're like, and I guess I won't get specifically into it, but Blade Runner there's a very specific scene in Blade Runner that I thought they were paying a lot of homage to.

That was one of my favorite sequences in the movie.

So yeah, yeah, I can definitely see that for sure.

I think I know what you're talking about.

Although I haven't seen much of Blade Runner.

I never saw twenty eighty four, and I've seen Blade Runner as a child, but I never rewatch ninety nine.

What did I say, I don't know whatever.

It's something eighty four.

Okay, well you want to dive, I guess into our shot and chase.

Are you elected to take the shot?

Yeah, I'm gonna dive.

I've got two illuminated handle handlebars in my hand and I'm diving headfirst.

So geometry as assembling around me.

So let's do it before the twenty nine minutes or twenty nine seconds or minute is up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well let's here.

Let's hear, let's hear, let's hear.

You get sixty seconds on the clock to do a give us the best breakdown of this movie's plot.

And go all right.

Julian Dillinger, the grandson of Edward Dillinger, is the CEO of Dillinger Systems, and he has created the security program that is the Perfect Soldier.

It is aries and not only that, but he is basically he's bamboozling his investors to think that he has unlocked the Philosopher's Stone.

He's able to create matter out of nothing, bring digital constructs into the real world.

So he's selling it as a military AI.

Perfect soldiers, perfect tanks, what have you.

On the other side of things, on InCom, we have Eve Kim has taken over as CEO there and she is basically an alcolade of Flynn.

She was a video game developer herself.

She and her sister found out about the Permanence code, and basically we pick up with her in Alaska, Antarctica or whatever.

She's Flynn Cold Server and is able to obtain the Permanence code, and from there it is a chase for the Permanent's code.

Dillinger wants the permanent code, She wants the Permanence code.

Aris wants the permanent'ce code.

And that's time.

Okay, all right, all right, I love it.

Leave it, leave a little on the table less something for me?

Good for that?

Here?

All right, well, I'll do what we call the chaser, where I get thirty seconds to try to say anything that you may have missed.

And here here I go.

All right, yeah, so everybody wants the Permanen's Code for their own purposes, and Aries just wants to survive, and it becomes a movie about Aris wants to survive and and Dyllinger is at any cost trying to get so.

So they bring tanks and spaceships and everything into the real world, and Aries visits the old tron to get the Permanence code, which was pretty fun, and then he gets the Permanent's code and defeats the alien invaders as it were.

Oh right, that's my that's my that's my time.

Let's get into open bar in our drinking theme podcast here.

So yeah, now we can finally get into the Rock in My Shoe, which I'll try not to hold.

I'm dying to know what was the rock in the shoe?

You were loving the movie so much.

Okay, I'll get into it.

And I do want to say I love this movie.

It's really fun and like and really great and Okay, the scene that made me cry in the begin of the movie is when Aries, as a construct gain sentience.

He's clearly gained sentience at some point before this, and then he is he is looking he's only ever experienced pain, really like he has been a creature of pain.

He's got the Doomsday origin story.

You know, the Doomsday Ordinary from DC comics.

I thought I did, but now you have me questioning.

Maybe from what I understand, Doomsday is a creature, Kryptonian creature who they kill over and over and every time it gets stronger and they murder, murder, poor Doom's day until he's just a murder machine that can take on anything, and he gets stronger and stronger and bigger, and every iteration of him, that's very much what they do to Aries here, and it immediately made me feel for Aries.

And then you can tell just looks on his face he really wants freedom, and like I just I just bought it, man, I was really bought in to him wanting freedom.

And then he gets this like he has the search to the files, he goes through Eves files and he just gets I think, his first taste of kindness, his first taste of empathy.

He's only been treated as a war of an implement of war.

And in that moment, he like he reads a bit of fiction.

He reads a bit of Frankenstein, and there's a quote that he grabs onto like like he he's he's exploring.

And that's the scene that made me cry because it was him seeing her and she says that line about like maybe the thing that's because he is like known that he goes into the real world and just dies, and he goes into the cartoon world and dies immediately.

Then he goes into the real world and still has this twenty nine minutes until he's he just evaporates, and he's just only had this this he only knows loss and pain and death of himself.

And now he sees this person who is kind and only and believes that maybe the maybe the thing that is unknown isn't so scary, you know, like the first person he sees the hope and kindness.

And that scene just made me made me cry, Like I really really love that scene.

I think it's beautiful and it's also evocative because he sees her and pain and he's like experience, he knows what pain feels.

Like and he sees that on her face, and then yeah, just that whole that whole scene was just so good.

It really got me.

And then I'm then I'm then I'm on top of being like, you know, bought in on the visuals and the excitement, I am bought in on this character.

Now I'm I'm sold.

But what it made it so interesting to me was it aries.

While he felt really true to like a AI gaining sentience and like wanting freedom, he also felt a little scary.

And I think that Jared leto like I felt tension there for a long portion.

Of the movie.

All the way through most of the movie, I felt like he could he could, they could save him, set him free, and he could still be a bad guy like he had that that and that's kind of what I was looking for.

I think, oh, yeah, yeah, well I have a aver rewrite that I think he'll really like.

But I really I love that so much.

And then when he got out and there's the scene where he talks about his friend who died, uh Cashus Caius Caius by Cameron Monahan, which I like.

Cameron Moanahan another uh, another other actor played in Gotham, so Caius Uh dies and he has that question where he asked the guy like what happened to Caius?

And it shows it to me that was showing he cared about his people.

Oh totally.

Yeah.

Then he gets out and he only wants the code for himself.

That's the rock in my shoe, And they mentioned it at the very end, but like I thought the whole movie, he was going to get the permanence code and and like come back for his friends, like even if they're chasing him, even if they're trying to kill him.

And I love that shit.

I love it so much in a movie when like a character is being like chased violently and they turn around with kindness, you know.

That's like my that is my shit.

Yeah, And I wanted that scene so bad, and instead he just says it.

He's like, I just want to save myself, and like, I that's fair, Like you were being murdered and killed.

Like the whole point of the movie is you saw like Eve Kim's empathy for others, and you wanted to be to be believed that you could be a thing worth having empathy for.

And then you got your chance and you ran with it and forgot everyone else and that pissed me off so much.

Yeah, I really hate it.

Yeah, it's it's really fair.

And I don't want to say the movie lost me, but I kind of went in.

I've been watching movies with you know, an analytical mind for long enough that I frequently say, like, I'm able to compartmentalize whatever my expectations and hopes are.

I'm able to quickly say, whatever, whatever the movie wants to do, as long as it delivers on that, I can usually you know, put aside my expectations.

But this was one instance with the Jared Letto of it all.

And I don't dislike him as much as a lot of other people.

I am a strong proponent of, you know, separate the art from the artist.

I do think he's you know, delivered a handful of really good performances.

And you know, despite whatever misgivings you have for his his method acting, it does sound like it can be a little Yeah, does Joker draining and oppressive for his views there.

My kind of hope was that, Okay, if you're going to cast Jared Letto in this thing, and to bring up Blade Runner and Blade Runner twenty forty nine, specifically again he was in that movie, but they used to perfectly.

He was like this detached He was a human, but he was like less human than the replicants that you know that are at play and at large here.

My hope was that he really was going to live up to that name of Ares and be kind of like the harbinger of War brought to the real world.

And even you know, even if he did have curiosity and questions about his existence and his nature, ultimately, yes, he would be a defender of the Grid.

And I think he did have that moment with Athena where I agree with you completely.

He was selfish in the end, did not care about his team at all.

But there was that moment where Athena got to call him out.

She's like, you know, what about the Grid?

What did you do for the Grid?

Like you've done nothing for the Grid.

I'm glad they brought it up because it really bothered me a lot.

I'm glad they brought it up, but there wasn't And you know, he drops his knees and holds her his arm as she's dying.

But I just needed more.

I needed a realization from him, like what did I do?

Like I should have come back for you.

I thought, even in that moment, I thought it might have gone too far.

I know she'd been really violent and stuff, but I thought, even in that moment, like he has the permanence code.

We don't know how it works in this world, but like he has the permanence code, can he transfer it to her?

Like, as she's laying there about to die, I thought, even in her like most violent, I thought he might choose to save her and then give her that freedom.

And I was looking for it.

I was waiting for it, and it just did never happen.

It never happened.

Even after she called him out, he'd like, didn't seem to he seems sad that she was dying, but didn't seem to resonate his own role in that.

And that.

I know that's such a nitpicky perfection thing, but here's the thing.

Okay, let's do a two minute Monday morning movie medics and let me tell you my my fix for this.

And I because I think, like too if you go too far with it, it's Pollyanna, it's like too perfect.

But that's not what I wanted.

This is what I wanted.

I want aries to find the source code to come back to fight the battle with all all these things.

And instead of fighting the battle, he may fight the battle.

I'll do what he has to do.

But he goes back and saves the people.

He goes in does whatever.

Maybe it seems like a sacrifice play, like he goes into the code or something, and maybe it almost seems like he's like willing to die to save everyone else.

You know, he's like, I want to free everyone, not like I no longer will Dyllinger have control of my people.

Like I've seen all these people in pain.

He goes in and saves them all.

He gives them all the Permit's code, He gives them all their freedom.

And then the last thing you see in the movie is tanks and light cycles and spaceships and all these people emerging from the from the thing.

And Eve stands in front of him and go, what are you doing?

And he's like, I saved us, I saved us.

All fulfilling my direct or.

No, I wanted I fight for the programs.

Ah yeah, I was like I wanted it so bad.

I wanted that ending so bad, and like somebody has to fight for the programs, and like and then you end on this place where like he's not a bad guy, he just fights for the programs and they have a right to live.

And so like you end with like almost like a new as Gard situation where like wherever that Dillinger plant is is now just like this weird alien landscape that the Tron people live, and you have to go like the militaryya is setting up a perimeter around around the Dillinger area, and so far they seem peaceful, but we have to watch them, you know that sort of thing.

And then you're like, oh, crap, like that now we have this like set up interesting battle prepared for the next movie that you're like, are they gonna be peaceful?

Are they not?

How are humans gonna treat them?

And then you've got this human mutant sort of dynamic where like do they trust them?

Do they not?

Like That's what I wanted for the end of this movie, and yeah, instead he just did never never cared about the people, and that sucked.

I do I do really enjoy the rewrite, particularly that line I fight for the for the programs.

I think that's great.

But it did bring to mind, you know, not to get too far ahead of ourselves here, but considering the way this movie ended, I do think, you know, depending on how well this movie performs, maybe we will get a sequel.

Maybe it won't be another ten, fifteen, twenty years until.

But the way we left off, Evan Peters Julian like he could potentially be the guy that fights for the programs now.

I mean he's been a very selfish character up until that point, but when he was left on the grid there it looked a lot like the Sark Yes accoutrement, like forming around her percin.

Yeah, that's definitely what they were going for.

He like he's the new Sark, which and you know that was a Dyllinger back then.

Like it's a great it's a great little call out.

It was a wonderful moment at the end.

And I do think there's it's set up for a sequel.

They very clearly set up sequel.

Also, they brought in legacy at the end with well not just at the end.

Sure, sure it's throughout, but it's sort of like dodges those characters by having Sam.

Sam has left totally, and they they I thought at one point they kind of retconned with the twenty nine minute thing.

I was like, wait, did that iso, I'm forgetting her name?

I thought the same.

Did she just leave?

You thought the same thing.

Yes, yeah, Cora had to have died twenty nine minutes after she left, right.

But then we find out that Flynn had the code the whole time, and so I was like, Okay, that's good.

Well my head canon too, because the Permanent's code has this like DNA structure, right, So I was thinking, I was like, is the Permanent's code basically the ISO, like oh DNA?

And they just it was everything and name because he has the line where he says I called it something different and he goes on to say, like it should be called the Impermanent's Code.

But I was like wondering.

I was like, oh, is he is this like a reference to that?

But all that to say, like, yes, there are definitely references to like and to the original.

But that's what I really came away with.

I think this was more of a sequel to the nineteen eighty two film, and it was clear to me that like, the people that made this film like have a lot of love for that nineteen eighty two film, and that just extended sequence with arias on that original grid.

Now it did bring it.

I did have some questions about Cannon.

I was like, okay, well it was he's been he got transported by the same particle laser that transported Sam in the last one, so why wouldn't he be going to the same version of the grid.

But then I was like, okay, maybe because it's an older server, right, it's a different version of the grid and kind of like a backed up.

That's kind of what they pay.

So that's that.

And he even says he's like, I'm an echo of someone who used to be here or something like that.

So it seems that this version of Flynn is not the real Flynn.

He's somehow like a ghost in the machine of this old computer sitting in his lab, but somehow has a connection to his own.

He has a back door to his old lab.

So yeah, it's a little And also I was going through because like obviously with tron Legacy, the last time we saw him, the grid did not look like that anymore, you know, it looked looked much more outdated.

So I was wondering if like maybe you know, when you access an app on a slower device, sometimes you just get like a worse experience or like a like, maybe they're using this old eighty nine computer, so it's like the grid, the grid looks like that or whatever.

I like that.

I do like it.

I like it, but it doesn't really track because Sam, like you said, enters through the same laser through the I don't know, this is supposed to be his original computer that he created the grid on, like an example of it.

We know that he went on to work for a few years after so that to build to build a better system or whatever.

So yeah, I can make the head cannon work in my in my head enough.

Totally, Totally.

I did find myself having a similar complaint that I did have to Legacy though towards the end of the movie, and it was once Aries had kind of made the transition to the eighties scape, and that was with some of the editing, with some of the pacing, I just felt like it was a little disjointed, like going back and forth from like you know, Athena descending with the you know, the giant paranoids to these very quiet and contemplative moments with Aries and Flint.

As much as I love them, I I did find myself just kind of being like yanked back and forth a little bit.

I didn't feel as smooth as it could be.

But one thing that I did think of, at least when I was watching the movie, and it didn't come to mind again until you started to provide your rewrite again.

But thinking about some of the inconsistencies with aries, I think a lot of the movie he does seem so focused and singular in his goal, but right before he gets transported to the eighties verse, he makes the decision.

We're talking about how selfish he's been, but he does the side.

He's like, oh, change of plans, like I'm gonna take it, you know, to save you and protect you.

Which, like that gives some context to why he's doing what he's doing.

And he's doing a lot of what he's doing because he really believes in Eve Kim, like I think he like she.

She seems like a Jesus figure to him, Like he has had this transformative experience and seeing what a human could be in Eve Sure, and he's decided to he says in the car, he's like, I've gone through all your data.

I've read all your texts and some of them very personal, and he's like, and I can't get enough like that line is great.

I love that line so much.

Yeah.

Yeah, not all of the humor worked for me, but that was a good setup for them.

And then he's like, oh, this is the song from depeche Mode.

Of course.

Yeah, the humor worked for me.

Man, I laughed harder, and I think it just made it be in me because I laughed harder in the theater than like anyone else was laughing like I was.

The I also was laughing at random things because I just watched the other trons, Like when you he uh Dumont recycling or whatever, I was like aha, and everyone's like what, yeah, well, speaking.

Of little nods like that.

I definitely got a kick out of when Dillinger he was like into the line, Yeah, me too.

I get that reference.

And then very specifically, when Dillinger is hacking into the InCom system, uh, the security guard knocks over his cup of coffee in the exact same way the security guarden Legacy did.

So I was like, oh, oh that's fun.

I see you, that's fun.

Yeah yeah, I h I really really love it, like love this movie.

I love all the like I said, I mean said too, and I don't want to get too too explicit about what's going on.

But when aries is riding around with Eve Kim and they're just uh stealing cars and he's talking about like his like references to classics and like the what is a classic to him is like sort of it's all it's it's it's someone who's been on the internet but never been in real life, you know what I mean, Like all his references in talking about he knows everything basically about everything, but he doesn't know life and a man, God, I am, I'm sitting here having like again just well no, I'm feeling more frustrated.

Like they had that scene with Athena getting rained on and having a first feeling, and I thought for sure at that point that that like I wasn't wrong that he was gonna have empathy for them and she was also gonna get to experience what it meant to have permanence or whatever.

And like no, yeah, well, and that was the moment I was alluding to.

That was very Blade Runner espe because it's Rutger Howard tears in the rain, right, the replicant realizing his impermanence, And there's no difference between the tears that are falling down his face and the rain drops that are that are falling.

So yes, she gets to have that moment.

It's like unrecognized sensation, but it never goes anywhere with at least in terms for her, Yeah, her journey, Yeah, which is a little disappointed.

My only hope is they did a restart of the system that a Dillinger Dillinger did.

I was kind of hoping maybe the restart would include the characters who had died, and maybe those characters will have a chance in the next movie to experience these things.

Maybe uh, maybe Aris will realize his flaw and like go back and try to save his people.

Maybe that'll be Maybe that's a they're saving that for the future, but I just maybe.

Yeah, it frustrated me the whole time.

Man, well, as soon as I realized it wasn't happening.

It is just like he says explicitly, I did this so I could save myself, And it's like, wait, wait, is that it is that it?

Yeah.

You said something about Aris seeing Eve as kind of like this Jesus figure, and I do think that's appropriate because you also mentioned how he's only known pain and even when he's brought into existence, like it seems like a painful experience for him.

He's like like wretching as he comes into being and his you know, his first interaction with a human is Dillinger and he's like, I'm your creator, I'm the supreme being.

You must, you know, follow my order.

And then his first real interaction with Eve is that that empathy recognition.

It's like, hey, this is an empathetic response there.

So to your point, it is the very first kindness he's ever experienced.

So yeah, and again it's in keeping with the franchise.

It's it's big on vibes, a little light on substance.

But even with you know, as great a performer as Greta Lee is, it's like not a lot on the page there in terms of your character.

Yes, she has a sister that she cared very much about and had a little bit of I did appreciate how they kind of were specific about saying, hey, you're the older sister and it was your younger sister that you looked up to because I was paying it.

I was trying to pay attention when it had like you know, the dates of like when she was born and when she died, and I was like, oh, if Greta Lee's supposed to be the younger sister.

They're definitely like making her seem younger than I know the actress to be.

What, Yeah, I see that.

Yeah.

I didn't think this one was light on the substance like the others.

I did agree with that on the other ones.

This one, I mean, the whole, the whole impermanence thing is like really beautiful and tying that in with the death and how he gets out of there.

He gets out of there and he's talked to Flynn and now he's talking to uh Eve again and he's like, yeah, life is uh like like well, he's talking to her about impermanence and she's like, yeah, I know, like I know about him permanent.

I loved that scene.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

I did roll my eyes out a couple of things because I was like, all right, it's Jared leto you know, like echoing like vacuous platitudes to me right now.

I hear I hear you, I hear you that It resonated for me.

I don't know why, I really it really did.

And I so much of the movie resonated with me.

And then yeah, yeah.

One and to your points.

I do think it has a little bit more substance than you know, some of the previous ones did.

But one of the things I thought was pretty timely was the conversation around AI.

And one of the things I thought they were going to explore a little bit more than they did is again this whole kind of notion of being able to create something out of nothing.

It's effectively the philosopher's stone, right, we have this law of equivalent exchange, but to be able to create something from nothing, there has to be some kind of real world impact.

And even like in our own world, like we know, like AI generation doesn't come at like no cost.

Those servers require energy.

And it was like a big conversation when like NFTs were you know, yeah, yeah, come to the forefront, like how many trees are we willing to to cut down in DeForest in the name of the pursuit of technology and information?

When they say it when they're creating the thing, they say raw materials loading at one point, So there's got to be some sort of draw on our on our actual materials to create these things.

Now, Okay, if you can create a superhero like with just some raw materials, that seems like a three D pretty gazuber.

It's probably worth it, and like, I don't know, like financially or like so Eve's plan of creating like trees and crops, Like obviously it's more altruistic, but I was questioning, like the power drain and the resources created to create a tree might be much cheaper to plant a tree, Like I don't know sure what the like it.

It does seem like there's gotta be some sort of exchange here, like energy and energy can't be created or destroyed, like the matters coming from somewhere.

Yeah, yeah, and yeah, they didn't really you know, touch on it all that much.

But I guess if you wanted to headcanon a little bit, it's the fact that there were real world stakes and real lives lost at the at the hands of Dillinger.

Yeah, maybe not directly, but indirectly.

Oh man, his mother dying, and I freaking loved it.

This is one of my favorite lines of the movie.

When Athena looks at it looks at him, it says, searching for additional threats opponents.

Yeah, identifying additional opponents?

Was it opponents?

I thought it was something to do with like, oh, impediments.

Impediments, that's what it was.

It was like any additional problems I'm gonna have?

And basically she's looking at him and saying, are we going to have a problem?

And he just lowers his head because he's a coward, like his own mother just died, and he is not going to stand up and fight this.

I mean it can't.

There's nothing he can do to Athena, and he's given her a directive to at all costs, which includes him, he knows, But I just thought the cowardice of that moment was beautiful and like really telling of Dillinger and Evan.

I love Devin Peters in this.

He was great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He really was good at you know, twisting the mustache and eating up the scenery.

There were a couple of lines that like when he was like I'm awesome, I was like, do we need that?

But I did appreciate how they didn't let him off the hook either, Like when his mom was dying in his arms, she said, you did this.

Yeah, like I said it, maybe not directly, but very much indirectly.

Yep, yep, you did this, you did this.

He and he set up to be a really even more mustache trolley villain in the future because he is I think he's in a dark place and him disappeared, like intentionally running off to the grid was pretty great, Like he's like I've I've spent everything I had in this world and now I'm just like running off to the grid.

We'll see what happens.

It was good man.

I really liked this movie.

Yeah, good stuff.

I really liked Seth in the movie, our true Castro's character.

He had a few jokes that I thought landed really well.

It's always hard.

I can't remember any of them, but he was a welcome ye.

Yeah, it's always hard after a the movie trying to do these bengers because I don't have any notes, Like I'm not taking notes in the theater.

So yeah, I'm like he had some really good jokes.

I remember laughing hard at a few of his lines that were that were really nice and uh, I really like, like I just one that popped in my head was I made that orange It's a long story or something like that, Like, oh, just like a little little offhanded jokes and stuff that worked for me.

I do remember, like like got a war, Yes you're Greek.

Yeah, that cracked me up.

I don't know, man, maybe I was just a really good mood for like the right mood for this one, but this one just like it worked for me.

I really enjoyed it.

Yeah, I think like of the three, it's by far my favorite.

And I like the other two for what they are, but this is by far my favorite, and I.

Just I don't know, I'm tempted to say the same.

Like I said, I do think it has some of my favorite Tron moments some of my least favorite Tron moments, but you know, recency bias as a factor.

But yeah, I had a pretty good time with it, and I think it's just a great time in the theater.

Yeah, I couldn't believe.

At the end, we see Sam and Cora and I know that like they they reference the fact that they were they existed, which is cool, and I'm like that's neat, But him like leaving to be like that I'm not alone.

There are more like me, And he's like looking at a picture of Cora and Sam and he's like seeking them out.

I was like, really, that's the direction they're going to go with a sequel, Like if they do a sequel, He's gonna head towards Sam and Cora.

That is cool.

Yeah, I didn't.

I didn't expect that at all.

Uh, now, what what happens with Dyllinger.

I fully that that was exactly what I expected for his character, but I just don't.

I didn't expect Aries to like head off to uh to find Sam and Cora.

And I'm I'm down because it like it'll tie the whole universe together in a better way.

Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

Yeah.

I mean, I think there's a way to to do a sequel and if yeah, I think Jared Leto did a good enough job that if he wants to continue to be a part of it.

I won't say that he can't be, and I won't poop poo on it, But I think what I would like to see for the future of the of the franchise is kind of like this one touched on so many elements of the previous films.

Maybe a future sequel can be more of a sequel to Legacy and just touch on elements of Aries a little bit.

And we don't even have to have Jared Leto in the proceedings.

We can just reference Aris and what contributions he had to the spreading of the Permanent's Code too.

Yeah, maybe maybe the rejuvenation of the isopopulation in the real world.

Yeah, by the way, I really I hadn't thought.

I've been thinking about it since you said it.

I really like your interpretation that the ISOs might have been the thing that gave Flynn the Permanent's Code.

I love that idea because it makes sense why when they get out, He's like, now that I have this, like we're gonna be able to, you know, create make the world a better place all this stuff if you couldn't do if you can create replicators basically Star Trek replicators, Like that's that's a big that that is what makes Star Trek a post scarcity world, as they created replicators and now they have, you know, just abundance and so like that is what eve Kim is doing.

And that is work that is built on Sam's work that was done by her sister, and so it is all it's all really, it's all really nicely tied in the bow.

If that's the case.

If the ISOs were in like probably Corrus specifically, they like were able to extract the Permanent Code from her somehow and like have it you know, it totally makes sense and I love it.

Yeah, Well, I feel like I'm just gonna keep going around and saying how good, how much I like this movie, and but constantly hitting that rock in my shoe.

So you want to get to bottom shelf, top shelf stuff?

You got anything else?

Yeah?

Yeah, I think it's time.

All right, Well, let's go for bottom shelf.

What you got?

Okay.

I am tempted to go with the final scene featuring areas where it's basically just you know, Jared Leto looking like Jesus on the motorcycle and a coffee shop doing his darkness exactly, just because it really was cheesy and had me rolling my eyes pretty hard.

But I'm going to go with the lack of Tron entirely.

Yeah, and a series, and you know the previous films did it too, Like Tron was never the main character and never a main well I won't say not a main player, because he was, but in a in a series called Tron.

And the way we left Tron off in legacy to not bring up Tron at all, to not have him feature at all, I thought was a little bit of a cardinal sin.

And it is a big mark against the movie for me, Yes.

And when she falls into the water, which is what happened, perfect opportunity to like at least touch on the mae Tron is down there or somehow connect with Tron, and that that just doesn't happen.

I guess it's a different server.

This is the Dillinger server, but still like Tron exists out in some server which has the thing.

The grid that we know of is the InCom server up until now, and the grid they go back to is an old InCom server which maybe the same, maybe not, maybe just connected through a different computer so it looks different.

We just don't know.

Yeah, okay, I like that, which you know what mine is and it's that rocket Bushoe man.

Like the lack of empathy for the other fair uh you know, battle bots or whatever, like they I really like if they had had that, or if he didn't have that, And then they treated her criticism of him seriously and he got really like emotional or sad that he'd hadn't realize and he felt really broken up and like ashamed something in that realm, Like if it just acknowledged it, I would have.

I think this movie would be one of my favorite movies, and if they'd rewritten it the way I write it wrote it, it would have been one of my favorites because I just I think the first two thirds of this movie, I was like so all in and I just I was locked in, I was enjoying it, I was riding it, and then like, yeah, it just just derailed for me, derailed this whole.

It just made the whole movie feel so much smaller than it could have been.

You know, I think a character like Ares that is selfishly wanting to free himself is great and interesting and like I can't fault that character who's gone through terrible things wanting to free themselves from those terrible things.

Sure, but a character that's like driven by the freedom of his people and like where that goes and how it can get dark in its own way and like all of that for future sequels and for where that goes, I think that would have been so much more interesting.

But I love the idea that of like an ending where you really don't know if he's a good guy bad guy still because he, like I think a long time in the movies, like Jared Little plays it in such a way where I'm like he's still aries, he's still the god of war, Like I'm still waiting for the turn where he like he gets her help.

He yeah, oh you mentioned earlier the scene where he jumps out the window and tries to save her.

He's like, right, change of plans.

I know that she's like as Jesus figure or whatever, but that seemed made the rock in my shoe all that much bigger because it was like he has empathy for her.

His whole mission was to save himself, but he wants to save her more than wants to save himself.

He is a sacrificial character who's willing to sacrifice himself, but not for the people that he's been fighting alongside all this time.

I don't know.

Yeah, I've said enough about my rock hut.

Where are your top shelf?

Man?

Top shelf?

It?

You know, it's pretty surface and pretty basic, but I do just have to say the the visuals, the choreography, the Nine Inch Nails soundtrack, like those were the things that really got me going, got my blood pump and just like I was locked in, like you said, And I think I love Legacy a lot, and I think Legacy is a visual feast and splendor, but this was just like, Wow, yeah, we are in twenty twenty five and operating at the height of our powers in terms of taking these just fantastical things and making them feel so tactile and real and threat totally.

And there was never a moment where I felt like this like Tron World wasn't real.

And those those battle staffs they had the light the light light battle staffs whatever.

That was so cool.

It made for so many interesting, never been done before type of uh fight things.

It took the concept of the light cycles from the first movie, which is like, oh, you're leaving a path behind you and you got to avoid the paths, and made them sharp and interesting and like swirly and like you could use them in all kinds of different ways.

And the same thing with using the light with and they did this a little bit with in the in Tron Legacy, I believe, but with the flying ones using those like to to block missiles to protect the mother ship, like it was so cool, really cool stuff.

Yeah, or even when like they use like the the ribboning and like the tracing effect to kind of like create a bubble around her.

Yeah, just like, yeah, all the drones create a little cage I wanted them because she was the this is me rewriting again sorry, when she was in the bubble and then they blow up the ship above her and rocks start falling.

I wanted the drones to cover her, like in a like protect her, because it would be it would have just been a neat visual.

But also it's like the the strategy of like, we can't kill her, she has the code, like why would we let her die?

And so I don't know, I love that kind of stuff where the bad guys are chasing the good guys and they have to do things to protect the good guy, you know, just because they need the thing they have they have it just complicated battle scenes like that, fun stuff.

Fun stuff.

Uh okay, I agree with you completely.

Yeah, all those things are great.

My top shelf is gonna be that scene, the scene where he experiences Eve Kim for the first time, and like, that scene just made me cry for a reason.

It was really wonderful and it's just it, I don't know, I don't know why, but it's just such a moment of realization of who his character is and like this big thing happening to him that he's experiencing her, like kindness and everything.

For the first time, I just thought it was really really touching.

And secondly, I'm gonna go with the second top shelf.

I really liked all this stuff, all the Terminatoor two stuff with them riding around in the car and just being buds and like setting up the laser in the office and like, I don't know, just a great like sort of buddy cop sort of thing.

But Terminator two is the best touchdown for me because it just it's so she's his like Sarah Connor and and like there's also that that little bit of flirtation there when hit with him being like I can't get enough like in her herb He doesn't I don't think he means that romantically.

He means that as like like I like the person that you are, Like I need to know more about this, but she sort of like blushes.

I don't know.

There's just so much of that that I think works really really well.

Yeah, I just I just really love so much of this movie.

I couldn't tarrapor didn't pick a won't pick one top shelf.

Well to hop back to that scene that you've been celebrating so much where he basically does get to discover her and be his fascination with her is kind of born.

And to go back to what you kind of brought up about her being kind of like a messianic figure for him, I think there's a strong argument to say we could say that about Flynn as well.

He has become mythical, kind of like god like revered, like creature or not creature, but figure.

So to have him have that moment with Aris where he has a similar fashion fascination with Arias, I really kind of love that where he's just like Aris gets to see He's like, you know, you only get one go around.

It's like I only want one to go around.

He's like, you just continue to impress men, Like this is good.

Yeah, I love the conversation between them.

It's it was all the little deepness of the movie that like it needed.

You know, we always thought we've talked about the whole series, and you said it earlier, like it's not like skims the surface of these deep ideas, but it's an action movie and that's all it needs.

Like I just need a little bit of deepness to sink my teeth into.

And I think there's there's enough in this one.

An Legacy.

I feel like there's enough there that I really I buy in real, real hard.

So yeah, yeah, man, good stuff.

I yeah, I really enjoyed all the stuff with Bridges uh as as much the dude as ever, and it's just a role he was born to play.

Yeah, so great, great stuff.

Man, really enjoyed it.

I'm oh, before we I will say the the d aging.

I felt like they were like, hey, we gotta let's go aback, let's flex, let's show Jeff Bridges or yeah, Jeff Bridges, how we intended it for him to look in Legacy.

Oh yeah, I got so much flak for the video game.

Look, they're like, hey, we've improved this aging thing.

It's fifteen years later.

We're much better at this.

Man.

I hope this movie is successful enough to get a good sequel.

I really do.

I hope so too.

I haven't had a chance to I mean, it's only we're recording this on Thursday.

Yeah, right after seeing it.

I'll probably have it up Friday night, Saturday morning at the latest.

But I haven't had a chance to look to see how it's doing box office wise.

But I think the tracking was in the neighborhood of forty million, which is on par with Legacy, Yeah, which was a ultimately a box office disappointment for Disney.

Right, sure, Yeah, I just don't like, Yeah, We've talked about it plenty, but like, I don't know that Tron Tron doesn't have I think a built in fan base.

But I'm wondering with Legacy maybe exciting enough people a few years ago that maybe this time it'll it'll bring more more butts in the seats.

I meant to bring it up when we were talking about Legacy, but I think, you know, one of the things that kind of hurt Legacy as well is like around twenty ten twenty eleven, Disney was doing a lot of like they that's when they had John Carter as well, which did not do well for them.

It was like right before they bought Star Wars and Star Wars and Marvel just kind of became this machine for them.

But I will say like there were multiple points in this movie again to praise the visuals, the choreography and the action, Like I was kind of like Marvel take notes.

I was kind of you know, I really felt like, you know, some of the the staffs and stuff like that.

We were talking about I was like, this kind of feels like Wakandan like technology, and if we kind of got back to making the vibranium feel like, you know, tactile like this, I'd be pretty pleased.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I bought into every fight scene.

I really did.

And I think tactiles are great for it being such a you know, video game world.

It feeling so tactile was wonderful.

Yeah.

I remember once upon a time on Multiverse News when we were talking about one of the very first trailers.

You compared it to Pixels.

Oh yeah, so glad to hear that.

You didn't come come out of this comparing it to Pixels.

All the way.

No, no, not at all.

I just thought the plot of bringing these video games into the real world.

I was like, hey, they wemade Pixels.

Yeah, but it's not it's really good.

Although, you know what, I've never seen Pixels all the way through, So maybe Pixels has a great like run about the about having empathy for the video game creatures.

I don't know, not sure.

I think I've seen all the five minutes of Pixels.

I think that's.

About how far I made it.

It's just rare, I don't I normally finish a movie I start, but I don't know why I never finished Pixels.

Alright, Well, I think that's it, man, I think we did it.

We did the Dron series.

I hope they bring it back.

I'm probably gonna try to put on the animated series just to see what that's all about.

Yeah, I think I misspoke when we talked about it on the first episode, and I think I said I had like two or three seasons.

I think it's only got the one season.

So not a big big ask there.

Yeah, Tron Uprising.

Yeah, Yeah, that's twenty twelve, so it's pretty recent.

Cool.

Oh and it's it looks like it's based in the stuff from the Legacy movie.

It's supposed to take place between the eighty two film and Legacy if I'm.

Okay, okay, cool, I saw a clue which I guess he's in both.

Cool.

All right, man, Well, thanks for doing this with me.

This was a really I always am hesitant to get started on a Binger symbol because they take a lot of work.

Because we got to watch a lot of movies and get get around to broadcasting a bunch of times, added to our already pretty busy schedule with podcasting.

But uh, it's always one of my favorite shows to do because I always feel really fulfilled covering an entire series like this.

So thanks for thanks for having the idea to do this and pushing us to do it, because I really really had fun.

Yeah, thanks for joining me on the ride and venturing into the grid.

Maybe we do it one more time.

Yeah, let's do it again.

Come on Disney.

All right, guys, cowards do it?

My favorite joke, people just scream cowards when there's no like reason they're being cowards.

They just just do it, cowards.

You won't?

All right?

Well, do we have an ending to the show?

Something we do?

Peace farewell programs.

Binger's Assymbol is a Stranded Panda podcast.

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