Hello guys, welcome back to the Downbeat Podcast.

My guest this week is David Gunn of King 810, a unbelievably interesting person.

Met him for the first time earlier in the morning.

We went to the gym together.

Honestly, the guy is an enigma.

We talked for an extended amount of time about magic to the point that we had to pull the pin on it and be like, let's just do a magic episode again.

The guy is super well read.

Don't think he'll mind me saying this.

He's like kind of scary.

The band's kind of scary if you don't know King 81-O, unbelievable gym music and regular in rotation for me from Flint, MI Scary guys.

They got a new album out.

It was recorded with no click, no tracks, no nothing.

Real raw, old school style.

We talk about that.

Just a really interesting chat with a really interesting guy.

I was glad to pick his brains.

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It's David Gunn of King 810 on the Downbeat podcast.

I didn't.

First off, 1st off.

Is it?

David or David?

You can call me David.

That's what my friends call me.

Nice.

Where?

Where did that come from?

Me and my friend, we were very much into.

Well, when I was a child, I got into rudimentary forms of paganism, Wicca, stuff like that, maybe 11 or 12.

And when I became an older teenager in 19/20/21, me and my friend were into not were until we still are.

Obviously you can hear in the music ceremonial magic.

And so his name's Jake, my name's David, and both biblical names, but we put the Y at the beginning, even though the Y is just the sound.

It's actually supposed to be AJ for Yanis and Yombres, the two magicians the the, the Pharaoh in Egypt's that Moses faces that does all the miracles and they have a a duel.

The Pharaoh's 2/2 had magicians were Yanis and Yombres.

It's just looks like Janice and Jambres.

So he's Yike.

And I'm behaving.

Yeah, you can behave it, the two magicians.

It's funny because I was, I was going to hit on that later on and then earlier we might as well just go straight into it.

Then we're into it already.

First off, thanks for coming.

Oh yeah, thanks for the lift earlier.

Hey, thank you for hosting me.

This motherfucker came in.

I was like, he was like, I'm going to be a bit a bit late, start warming up.

I was dead lifting.

If you don't care about the weights and stuff, sorry, you're fucked.

I was deadlifting.

I got up to like a 315.

I was going to go out from there.

This motherfucker just comes in and I'm and was like, we are in on this.

And I was like, yeah, we can, you can back it off if you want to warm up and then just proceeds to wrap out like 15.

No warm up.

No, no beast.

Well, I have to make a disclaimer as well.

No steroids, because that's what people think you're doing.

If you can lift more than them, yeah.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, he's just not natural.

Damn it, damn it.

And then they're right.

I'm not natural as in not natural, but I'm.

Supernatural.

But I'm not on steroids.

No, he's.

You're straight edge, Yeah.

So a lot of straight edge people, their drug is actually steroids.

Yeah.

Never touched it.

No, no, never will.

Even 1 Cheeky.

No, not anything.

Period.

The only thing I say when people start getting into the steroid combo is I don't think that they are as harmful as crazy or as as they're made out to be, but I don't do them or want to do them.

I think they there was a big scare with the roid rage and with all of this stuff, which, you know, just common sense, you're playing with your hormones.

So you are going to there is effects to it.

It's not harmless, but I don't believe, I almost think they did a reefer madness scare with steroids, kind of like they did with weed where you know if you smoke weed, you're going to kill your whole family and do whatever they did.

They did a fear campaign regarding steroids with that as well.

So I don't have the, I don't have the opinion about steroids that most people have like as in the general public.

Yeah, if it's going to do it to you, do something to you.

It kind of already lives in you.

Like me with weed, probably.

Reefer Madness could be correct.

Like I can't smoke weed but I'm like a psycho.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not I think reefer madness is, is a little bit real as well.

I've I've seen some people doing some, you know, these get these drug induced psychosis from from it and and people swear it's, you know, just a for your mind kind of thing.

And I don't think that's true either.

But I also don't think steroids are going to make you kill your family.

I don't I don't have anything against them.

I just don't want or need them.

Not even.

I'm not even close to considering that I've.

Never I've seen where you left.

Testosterone is also because people are like, well you must be on test if you're not on roids.

They just for some reason can't.

It's like no, nothing.

So you never touched a drug?

No, I guess I've done ayahuasca in the jungle of Peru.

So that's.

You want to tell me about that?

I don't know much about it, I was pretty gone.

How long was it?

I was there for a few weeks.

Oh, he did proper retreat.

Proper.

Yeah, not too many English speaking people.

Peruvian shaman high jungle in Peru.

I think 10th generation shaman never even left the jungle.

No cell phones, no electricity, no laundry, Internet, iPhone, whatever.

Set up being on tour.

Few weeks, yeah, Out there doing that about every other day.

Oh my God, like the full eight hour 12 hour trip every every other day.

Yeah, one of them was even more intense because I thought this is just how I am.

I thought, I'm going to try not to puke, keep it in.

I was fucked for maybe 30 hours.

Oh, so you you succeeded in your puking.

I did.

Yeah, yeah, of course the.

Purging that they call it.

You didn't purge, no.

So I, I could feel this stuff and I think it, I think everything that you do is just meant to how you're supposed to do it.

And but I I had did it a couple times and I was doing my own thing and probably the 5th, 5th or 6th time I thought, I wonder what it be like if I don't puke this up.

So you just get the full hit of it?

Did you work the full?

Head of it.

Did you like work through anything like because obviously it's transformative.

I've done DMT but like that's 15 minutes of blaster into space.

And even after that I was a different person like and have been a different person since then.

But like what you're talking about is a full DMT trip for 8 to 10 hours.

The next day, yeah, when I swallowed it, it took for a very long time.

It took basically I wasn't eating.

I was on a fast for weeks and I wasn't had no food and water in me.

So I don't know why, if this has anything to do with it, because I don't, I don't really know.

But it took forever to digest.

So I was as long as it was in my body.

I was completely twisted.

I couldn't even walk.

But I really didn't mind.

I was in the middle of the jungle with nothing to do, with nowhere to be.

So it wasn't a big deal.

But yeah, I could feel the you know, they don't say it's, it's true that you have those, all those intestines, you know, that the flu goes through.

You can.

I could feel this shit every inch of the way.

You could feel it moving it.

Was almost like a hot fire, which is I was really into this idea.

It was, it was almost like a hot fire.

And you could, I could feel this thing just warming around before and I kept trying to go to the bathroom every day, every hour, I mean, multiple times a day.

And it it just wasn't happening.

Just wasn't budging, it was making its.

Own its own pace.

So I was like, you know what, you're going at your own pace.

I'm just going to lay down in the river.

I was never didn't even have any clothes on.

I just went out in the river just laid out by the side.

When was this?

This is hilarious but I have definitely some holes burned in my brain from this this funny experiences my friend Alan Vicki that they do blood stock.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that.

Yeah.

He's a big lifter as well.

Yeah, I love, I love both of them.

They, we've been crashing at their house since the very first time we went over there.

Awesome people, you know, super supportive.

One of when only 5 people support your band, you just become friends with those five people.

So the list is short.

And I was at their house and we were doing Bloodstock that year and I think it was 17.

It was right after La Petite Moore came out and we did the Bloodstock festival and I flew right from the Bloodstock festival to the Peru.

So I, I still have this strange.

It was a it was a life changing few weeks right?

But before I left I this is just something really stupid, but I I did my laundry at their house so I just have their laundry detergent smell burned into my memory.

I can.

Because it was over the whole.

Experience I had these clothes for for weeks and that's, that's all all I had and it's, it's really different than, you know, America detergent or American.

Doesn't smell like anything.

I know exactly, you know what I mean.

There's that English humidity of.

How did it dry?

Fucking dry doesn't dry, it just waits.

It doesn't.

The clothing doesn't dry, it just waits to be worn.

I was laying there the whole time with these clothes on and I just have this funny scent of that is not very interesting or not very deep, but it it just made me made me think of that.

But it's.

Funny because smells bring you back.

It does so when I this is this is another strange thing since we're just rambling off off shit is one of the one of the times that I was just running my own experiments.

You know what I mean.

I was there to do this internal work and, and I felt compelled to go in this calling and all this stuff.

And it was a spiritual experience and we can get to that.

But I, I was like going out, you know, I've never been drunk.

I never been high.

So but when I, when I see someone get drunk, they kind of know they're drunk because they'll tell you.

They'll look at you and be like, I'm fucked up.

You know what I mean?

When I did this shit, I didn't even know I was a human or anything.

I didn't even have AI was a completely stepped outside of the construct, I guess, right.

So I didn't have any clue what was happening.

So I, I had a recorder with me, a little Tascam or something, track, whatever.

And I was like, I'm going to press record on my next ceremony.

And when I lay down, just going to wake up the next day and listen to what happened is see if I said anything, did anything.

Listen to the songs that they sing because he would, the ceremonial songs he would sing all night until the next morning.

I put a small piece of that at the beginning of this song called Heartbeats that we have.

It's our third record called Suicide King.

And that's the shaman's voice.

So whenever we play that and it kind of comes over the, the intro, so it comes over the years, the PA in the in the years, I get this flash, you know, it's the same, same thing with the laundry smell.

But whenever that Peruvian song comes before that, it gives me this little thing, you know?

Takes you back there.

Yeah, but that's not very deep shit.

That's just very superficial fun stuff, you know?

How do you mean like?

This one, the smell of laundry detergent and the and.

The other one is definitely cooler than the laundry one, but the laundry 1 is like for me as some of this one guy that's moved here.

Like I know exactly the smell you're talking about because I haven't smelled it in months.

Yeah, come into the States.

I joke that my number one reason to come into the States was drying my clothes.

You can actually do it in a day.

But like, I love it like when that little noise goes.

My clothes are dry now.

I started this three hours ago.

We're good.

It's.

Crazy forced air.

It's fucking crazy it.

Was interesting to me, that's why I brought it up, because you know you're from the UK so you would get it.

Also put a time on it.

I was thinking when do we let, when do we played Bloodstock the first time?

That was the 17.

So that's when I went over there.

That's when I did all that.

Is Bloodstock one of the ones that you didn't get to play another time download I was supposed to see you.

It was download, primarily download, yeah.

Download Who got arrested?

You got arrested.

Me and Gene, yeah.

At the airport.

Yeah, we thought we were cool.

We thought we were about to leave the country for the first time, do all this stuff and have all this fun.

Didn't know even know what London was or you know, the UK or whatever and we just pulled up and got pinched immediately.

Was it like, and you can just tell me if you don't want to go into this, but like, was it you were wanted for something and you put your passport details in at the airport and they had to phone the police?

Or did this happen really soon and you went straight to the airport?

We were wanted for something we didn't know about.

So there were we had we.

So we're always getting into trouble.

I don't care to go into it.

I don't mind going into it because it's all public.

That's another side note.

I would say is half of the shit that I talk about is all you could Google it.

You know what I mean?

If I if I talk about saying music, sometimes I'll bring something up and people will be like he's boasting or bragging about criminal things.

All all the things I talk about are public, so I'm not.

I don't really think it's boasting or bragging.

It's just what?

It is.

Oh, I didn't.

I didn't.

I wouldn't think it was bragging.

I just meant if it's something you can't talk about like.

No, no.

I.

Like law in America works different.

Like if if your charges get dropped or you get found innocent, you could literally come out the next thing and go.

I did that, and because you've already been tried, you can't get tried again.

Yeah.

It's been a lot of years now.

I don't even think I did what what they were saying I did.

But we didn't know that at the time.

When we pulled up to to the to download the flight, they were waiting on the before we even got into the the airport.

It was like on the deck, you know, on the sidewalk, bunch of undercover people and regular clothing.

It looked like a fake movie where they I got two people with the clothing and doing the thing and I didn't really even know what it was.

I obviously I wasn't trying to flee the country to play a, you know, 100,000 person festival.

That wasn't wouldn't be my goal of our fleeing the country wouldn't be to bring 30 cases of instruments and.

Go in front of 100,000 people.

Yeah, be more undercover.

Peru, probably.

Yeah, yeah, that would be it.

But we, it was for something that we did in the past.

I didn't really know this because around this time we were doing a lot of shit, kicking up a lot of dust, getting into trouble, didn't really have anything going on in life.

We were just gang banging and having fun.

And this was on the very cusp of us getting signed and putting out a record and all this other stuff.

So this this would have been the first year of that.

So pre pre Roadrunner.

This whole occasion would have been pre Roadrunner.

So Roadrunner picks us up, we do this record and all this other stuff for the, the thing that ended up coming up was some old thing where someone got messed up in something and it was 6-8 months old and then they finally got around to issuing some type of warrant and we didn't know because you, I don't know about you, but I don't constantly have someone checking if I have warrants out.

You know what I mean?

Lawyer retainers are pretty expensive.

I don't, I don't really have someone checking on that a week at that.

I didn't have the time anyway.

And so we were just flying over, thought it was all good, but apparently it wasn't because they had recently issued a warrant out for this assault or something goofy.

And I know had we would have known, we would have just gotten ahead of it.

And we tried to get it taken care of before we left, but we didn't know and so they thought we were trying to creep off.

Yeah, so you must have been like no fly list and not even known.

Yeah, didn't know it.

And we, yeah, they, they thought we were trying to, to flee.

In my opinion, I, I, I don't flee.

So I wouldn't have flown over that anyway because it in my opinion was, it was petty, but I didn't know what it was for.

Though around this time there was, you know, our group of friends, there was, you know, there's shootings, stabbings, killings out of the house.

When they arrested us, I, I thought it was serious, like someone died or something because it, you know.

It was one of the elements.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

So we kind of were just sitting there as you do when you're getting arrested.

You don't.

You don't start asking what this might be for.

Because they'll be like, what do you mean there's more?

Yeah, I just kind of sat there, waited out.

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You wait a few days, there's no such thing as due process in Flint, MI.

So, you know, you wait a few days and you find out it's something goofy and it, it sucked.

It was a it was an absolute celebration when we got into jail because everyone was just, you know, they love to have you, but wait, what do you?

Mean by that?

If you're doing something in life and then you go to jail, you're like a hero, you know?

Really.

Yeah, well, we, we are already were not heroes, but known in flame.

Yeah, it's a small, it's not big.

It's it's 90,000 people.

So we were already known to that degree.

Plus half of my friends and family are in jail.

So there's more of them in there than there's out here to, to hang out with.

But even if they didn't know us, when the the police would, they try to make a big deal out of everything you do, you know, which is fine, But they try to, you know, put your story out there and, and act like, you know, they, they got you.

But when people found out that we were supposed to be doing something cool like that, they just thought, you know, this is awesome to have him in here and shit.

And you know, like some people have like come, look at my cell.

I got the lyrics, the whole lyrics to this murder, murder, murder carved in my wall.

You know what I'm saying?

And they go, they got all these tattoos and like, look at my king shit, you know what I mean?

There's like a bunch of people in there that that have all that stuff going on.

So they're they were way happier that we were there than we were at than we were at the show.

But at the same time, they want, they were like, get these motherfuckers out here.

They don't belong here, you know, stuff like that.

But after a few, after a little while, we got out and then we just spent the 1st year of tour flying home on off days to go to court and keep doing that type of thing, which I didn't really mind.

It was.

It was fine.

This is what you got to do.

This is what you got to do.

But I was just happy to be doing the shit, you know, like if you're on tour with Korn and Slipknot and all every band that you like, going to court on and off days, not really going to damper my it's not going to take the wind out of my sails.

I was walking in court like I owned the court.

In a slip.

Yeah.

Exactly what's up, motherfuckers?

Just got back from Birmingham, did 16,000 you know.

Well, are we in here again?

I can't remember which one.

I don't even know what this is.

Yeah.

That's not before we get off the ayahuasca thing, what we did.

You go there with a plan because a lot of people that I know that have gone down the retreat, they have something real bad in their brain and this is like the last resort.

Usually like addiction or something like that.

Or something like that's what made me think and you don't do drugs.

No, I would I would put another disclaimer in front of this.

I wasn't thrill seeking because I I have a few psychologist friends and also just a few friends that psychologize and they are under the impression sometimes that I have this kind of adrenaline thrill seeking thing, but I'm not really sure I agree with that.

I'm kind of completely at peace and I, I don't there's nothing in me that's like a thrill junkie, even though I I do do crazy shit, but it's not for an elevated heart rate really.

It's more more for more of a curiosity than it is about, let me have it like I'm not jumping out of a plane to I get a quick heart rate.

I can get a quick heart rate by going on a run.

You know what I mean?

It's not, it's not really adrenaline.

It's, it's more just exploration and curiosity and just intuition and calling.

So I, I just have a calling to do things and just follow that.

I kind of, I've said this before, but I just get out of my own way.

That's why earlier when you said you want to have a gym session, I was in the gym.

I just left the gym.

I mean, I've just left the gym, did an hour session, probably on the on the leg press because it was the Planet Fitness.

You know, we love them, but they don't got much going on in there, right?

So I'll do 2000 reps on a leg press machine or something for a leg day or something.

But then when you hit me up, you're like, Are you sure I can't interest you in a deadlift?

I just can't say something.

In your brain.

Yeah, so, so, and it's not like egotistical, like I'm going to, you know, do whatever it was.

It's more just like I just follow whatever comes up as what I should do.

And when someone says something to me, like if you were to say something like, you know, you sure you can't enter the deadlift, I might have got the notion of no, not interested.

And then I would have followed that.

I'm not just, you know, running around trying to do shit.

But I think I went there because I, I was called there to go there and I can't explicitly say why, I guess because I don't know.

I, I heard one time I was, I was in Spain and I went for the Sanford Min festival, the running, running of the bulls.

So because I wanted to do that.

And I did that for 10 days and I heard this guy near me and he's was talking to a camera or a news camera.

He was doing an interview or whatever and he said something like, I can't really explain what this does, but I know that it informs every decision I make after it, after doing it.

So you went and did the.

Running of the balls, Yeah, Brian, I would like, correct me if I'm wrong.

That's the thing where they just let a bunch of balls loose and you run away from them.

You run with them, Yeah.

And away, away if you, if you're scared or going to get gored.

But you run, run alongside them.

And then you run into the the ring in the Plaza.

And then, yeah, you run through the streets.

Sure you're not thrill?

Seeking I think.

I don't think Yeah I know.

I just thought it was awesome.

Is that pre or?

Post ayahuasca that's PO I think.

Post ayahuasca maybe post.

Ayahuasca.

Don't quote me on it, but I.

Think it's post ayahuasca but when that dude said that I didn't know pre ayahuasca, I didn't I didn't know this, but I thought that's that's such a good way to put it.

Spanish guy and he just said the running with these bulls informs every decision I I've made after since that's the only way I can think about it.

I can't.

I don't really have any judgments for anyone.

I didn't before I went.

I don't have any, although I, I am, you know, not perfect and funny and whatever, but I don't have any recommendations that everyone should do it.

I don't have any recommendations that they shouldn't.

I don't really know because I think you should just figure your own.

I don't.

I just go with my.

I only ask myself about me.

I don't.

I don't know what people should do to be honest.

But it's really hard to explain and I don't want to be like.

I come back and.

I I know, I know, there's God now and da da da da da.

I'm not like that anyway.

I knew there was God before I went and I I'll always know there is, but that's just this soul's idea that came into this body that did this life.

This is just how he feels.

So that's just kind of kind of what I think about it.

But I don't have any short little clip to say where it could sell the idea or discourage or even encourage someone to do it.

I would only say that you should maybe survey yourself and if you should, you think you should, and every of you have this calling to try it.

I would say don't put.

Too much faith in it or don't think it's going to save your life.

That's that's a one issue I have a problem with is I think people go there think it's going to save their life.

And they either come back saying, I know, I know that God's real and seen this and I know there's more to this and and that helps them And that's cool for that's because again, it's their life.

Or they say, Oh yeah, I tried that shit and it didn't work.

And da da, da, da da.

I'm still addicted.

To heroin or whatever, Yeah.

And I don't really.

I don't really believe in that and at at the same time being a a practicing magician and.

I don't believe.

In this transfixation on inebriation or like drug assisted nose, it's a, it's kind of like a crutch.

I don't believe that there's anything.

Well, I, it's not a belief.

It's true that there's, there's nothing that the chemical does to your brain that you can't do to your brain yourself, because that's how chemical receptors work.

You know, obviously it wouldn't work if if you didn't have receptors to bind to the these DMT chemicals that are endogenously produced in your brain.

I don't really know how to say it, but because this also sounds like I'm against it.

I'm not really against it, but I don't think that.

I come from the school of.

Thought of magic that you don't need to use drugs to get to where you're going basically.

So not Crowley.

Then because he was big on, he's a bit of a wild.

Guy, right?

Yeah.

And he's big on the inebriation part of the rituals.

Yeah.

Was, was, Yeah.

And I.

I don't have any problems with him.

I don't have.

I appreciate everything he's done and, and things like that, but I, I don't think that that should be your primary.

So if you're, if you're looking to understand, you know, more subtle realms, subtle bodies and these types of things, you need to home and sharpen your senses and your intuition and your ability to perceive the things that aren't as thick 3D density kind of things.

The way to do that's not to be on drugs.

It's, it's, it's a shortcut and it does get you there.

But the best way I've heard it is it's almost like drunk driving.

Like you're there, but you're a little bit buzzed behind the wheel and you're not necessarily there of your own will volition or faculties.

You can get a bunch of.

It's a it's a cheat.

Code but and you can get a bunch of insight and I'm not saying that no one should do it or that I'm against it or even have any judgments for anyone to do it.

But I don't believe in the primary method of I'm a magician or a initiate or a shaman or whatever may be.

And what I do is get high to get my visions.

I don't believe in that being the primary thing.

I think you need a foundation of an of intuition of just perception, senses, developing divine senses, ways to divine.

I'm not talking about divine like spiritual empty.

I mean ways to divine things like a dividing method.

I think you should focus on that first before you start playing with substances, you know?

Yeah, it should be.

Like a tool to try once you've already been initiated into it.

Have you done like breathwork stuff before?

That's one way that I literally so I've done DMT, I've been there, I've been to that realm, but with in particular that Wim Hof breathing stuff, you know the ice guy.

I don't do the ice stuff, but the breathing I can almost every time hit full like third eye open hallucinations just from breathing.

And I've had some crazy insane visions.

Like I had one like I had, it was like not not necessarily like spiritual or any of that stuff, but I had one and I was literally like I was at the Empire State Building.

Like I was there and it was in an elevator at the Empire State Building.

I'd never been to the Empire State Building and it was just like at the end of my breath work and I have this like weird trip out thing and then I come back and that's it.

And I was like, oh, that's crazy.

But I was used to it because I would always go and go to these weird dream States and there'd be like a situation or whatever.

Sometimes it would be something completely random.

And then afterwards I'd be like, oh, I, I need to focus on this more in my life as like the vision was nothing to do with that.

But then post vision it comes up in my head, you know, you just knew it.

Yeah, 100%.

But then I went to the.

Empire State Building for the first time and I'm in the elevator.

Oh, I just got chills thinking about it.

I'm in the elevator and I got Deja vu and I was like, oh, Deja vu.

And I was like, no, wait.

I was in my bathtub in Glasgow last time I was here and I was barking there.

It was the strangest barking thing.

I don't think it's strange.

I.

Think that's the real world and this is the dream.

So I think I think you were there and I think you were there again.

And if you want, you can go back there.

But everything is spiritual and it was showing you that for that reason to trigger that thing that came from it.

And that's that's what I'm talking about when I when I say things like intuition or a knowing or something like that, I'm not talking about going and reading someone's book and then just repeating what they said.

You got the message that you were supposed to get from the vision that you were supposed to see from the breath worth that you were supposed to be doing.

And it told you the thing you were supposed to know at the time through your own kind of spirits mechanism, through the own the own tools of of what you know have have known, whatever it may be.

If I go to the Empire State Building, it's going to mean something totally different.

But for you with your toolbox, with your toolkit, with your spiritual things that are happening, you're shown the stuff you're supposed to be shown for the thing that you're supposed to be doing or knowing or the thing that might even trigger it, like you said, doesn't have anything to do with it.

You.

Just know though.

You knew what you were supposed to do, what you could have done, should have done, would have done whatever.

And then when you went back, you knew that you were there before.

And that's pretty much what everyone for thousands of years has been talking about that we spend our lives trying to disprove.

But I I really don't care about what what people say about this sounds woo woo or this sounds oh, I'm all in on.

Woo woo.

I can.

I can go all day on woo woo.

I just don't understand.

When people are going to admit that the woo woo conversations have been over with all the stuff that they were calling woo woo in the 80s became scientific facts in the 90s everything they called woo woo in the 90s is a bona fide fact in the 2000s alchemy and.

Magic back in the day became science.

Like, yeah.

It's crazy.

It's weird and.

Nowadays they're like, well, what they were doing wasn't science, this is science.

And it's like, well, you might want to wonder which one of you is the scientists?

Because I'm pretty.

Sure, the Pfizer is not the scientist in this equation.

Just a guess.

I don't know.

Just listen.

I'd rather go with Paracelsus or something like that while we're on this.

Subject because I got I got questions on it because number one, you've just answered one of my questions, which is that you do believe in God, but I do want to get delve deeper.

We're going to talk about music at some point.

Shut the fuck up.

I do want to talk about spirituality.

I know we've just talked about it for like 10 minutes, but more specifically.

You.

I can't figure out because we don't know each other other than the gym session.

But I'm a fan of your band.

I'm a fan of your lyrics, Big fan of your lyrics and but I can't figure it out because you talk about God a lot.

So I assume you know you believe in a God, but I don't know Catholic God, any of that stuff.

Absolutely not.

Didn't think so.

But I want to, I want to delve into that.

You mentioned Brahma more than a couple of times.

Yeah, she's a Hindu God, you say on the song Red Queen.

I'm here for Satan, so I want to.

I just, I'm finding out what team you're on and then you got some voodoo stuff in there.

Yeah, take it you literally.

So you actually listen to these?

Songs.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, so.

Take it you literally open asking PP Legba to open the gates?

Papa Legba being the you do.

He's the keeper of the.

Crossroads, the person that you contact to get to the to the other side.

But the Christians just call him Saint Peter.

He's the gatekeeper, the guy that holds the key, Peter.

So where do you stand?

What's you want me to grab this?

And give you an elevator pitch.

No, no, no.

Slightly longer than an elevator pitch.

I just want, I'm just interested.

I appreciate.

All the religions, I appreciate all the religions hate when you say this, but I think they're all right and all wrong and I'm not on anyone's side and that's what they hate.

You know, it's the same with the same with politics when you say.

I'm not AI, don't.

Like the liberals or I don't like the Republicans and they think you're I don't like either of them or I like, I like either of them as well.

You know, I'd have no problems and I don't have any dislikes or likes any more than than one over the next.

If you want to talk about Hinduism, I can talk about that little bit.

If you want to talk about Catholicism, I can do that or whatever you pick.

I I got into this as a kid, like I said, paganism, Wicca, things like that around a really young age.

And again, it was a calling it, it's what the people around me were doing.

And I was when I was very young, I was in a gang doing the street violence and all this other stuff.

But I was also doing the witchcraft, which is it's funny if you think that humans are like movie characters where they only are just one thing.

It's it doesn't make much sense to be like this is a gang bang and Wiccan but kind of fucking.

Sake, but now that I.

Think about it.

I've never thought about this until I just said it out loud.

It is pretty sick.

It's.

So.

Fucking sick.

I don't know, maybe I.

Just watched The Crow too much as a kid.

Yeah, but no, I think it was just because I grew up in Flint and that's what was around me and Flint, MI.

Wiccan hotspot.

I must have just.

Been in the right place at the right time, but I don't really think, no, I don't think it's a Wiccan hotspot.

I think I it was just what again, the spirit came into the body.

This is I'm just following the the rules and what I'm where I'm going, doing what I'm supposed to be doing and what I'm going where I'm supposed to be going and saying what I'm supposed to be saying.

I, I was into that for, for several years, the paganism, Wiccanism, I'm, I'm still in into it.

I'm not out of it because I, I believe that it's all right.

You know, I, I first got into the Gerald Gardner.

I have to shout out the UKOG of this Wiccan shit and.

Early, early.

On child.

You know, 11 years old or something doing barefoot rituals out in the in the yard and which is hilarious because now that's like a health hack.

You see the grounding?

Dudes out here just grounding.

It's like, yeah, yeah.

Oh, you wonder why?

That works.

Yeah, yeah, it's been happening.

Yeah.

Yeah, they.

They call the bottom of the foot the sole so just think about it.

I did that for 5/6 years.

Who?

With who's hanging out with me and my friends?

Oh, in the woods doing what?

Making things happen.

We had to make things happen.

So we're doing that.

We're doing a little gangbang and we're doing a little witchcraft.

You know things.

Shit is.

I didn't realize it was this.

Awesome, until I set it out.

I just realized.

I never really talked about this because I think there's no one asks when when we first.

It's my number one most.

Interested thing.

When I read your lyrics, I'm like, this guy's either into demonology, he's into Wicca, he's into voodoo, or he's into all of it.

All of it, Yeah.

But I don't like to say all of it because it just probably means like, I don't think I'm a master of any kind, but it just sounds like I'm a I just call them tourists, you know, people that kind of pick up a Wiccan book from Scott Cunningham and they're like with really nice.

Art on it, Yeah.

And they?

Visit for a few weeks and they light a green candle, put it on their window sill, think they're going to get some cash later.

I don't.

I don't.

That's not what I'm talking about.

But as I got older I can't.

Maybe late teens ish.

I got into voodoo because I dated a girl from Haiti and that was what she was into.

This was 20s now we're now into the in going into the 20s and it gets.

I was interested in this before.

I kind of think I.

Manifested or.

Something not to be corny, but I get it.

So I was.

Into this is a very materialistic religion and I was super interested initiated in into it for years, and that was my practice.

And so I moved kind of from the rudimentary paganism in in to voodoo for for a long time.

And I like that place and I like the space and I kind of evolved from that into I don't want to almost hermeticism.

I would I would say it started with the Lima and the golden magical, with the Golden Dawn and the A A and temple, the Silver Star and stuff like that.

All the the Lima stuff based on the Golden Dawn stuff and then Crawley's kind of like the famous.

Dude, everyone knows.

That's all.

Where I.

Started getting into it as well.

It's like when you just you just think him and then you go, OK, let me go into that.

I always.

Tell people that start talking about Crawley.

I'm like I appreciate the guy I'm not saying anything but Crawley is not even on my top list of 100 top 100 magicians.

So I have to say that as AI just say that to people so maybe they dig a little deeper.

I feel like Crowley is a response and I feel like he's misunderstood like most people that have half of a common sense.

But I feel like Crowley is a almost like the Baphomet poster child for a rebellious and disquieted youth.

Yeah, but that's why.

We will start there.

You want to like Where do I?

Go.

Because he calls himself like the.

Wickedest man on earth, and you know the beast, and he is like.

Very well branded, yeah, Yeah.

And he has and he has.

Great PR in that in that regard, although there are plenty more wicked people.

I mean in our American government system.

Aside from that, I kind of gravitated towards Hermetic teachings, which I had always been into, you know, the Greek stuff, Egyptian stuff as a as a kid reading books on that in the library.

But when I became into the practice, I eventually evolved into the Hermetic stuff, which I feel like the Lima is a bit of a grab bag of a bunch of different stuff, primarily Egyptian Judaism, Kabbalistic, mystical, kabbalistic Judaism.

Not necessarily Judaism as in Jews or Christians or things like that, but I felt like hermetics were a bit more.

I don't know how to say this because it all sounds pretty goofy saying it.

There are things that magical systems teach that are true and they're verifiable.

But I don't really give any credence.

And this goes for Christianity, Hinduism, everyone.

I don't think that they own that idea or that they created that idea.

I think they're corroborating it and it predates them.

So if the idea of as above, so below right is in the hermetics, you know it.

It doesn't mean if you believe as above, so below, then you're a hermeticist.

You know what I mean?

There are plus there are 100 orders of hermeticists and out there.

And it's the same with with anything else.

You know, if you.

You know most people?

You ask?

If they believe in God and they say, yeah, it's like, OK, so you're a Christian.

It's it's kind of the question where you can't really answer it.

So if someone, if I'm sitting at a show and someone asks me, so do you believe in God or not?

I don't believe in having this conversation with you.

No, no, no.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not at a show.

We're sitting there with this is what we're trying to hash some things out.

If you're 2 beers deep at the bar at a show and a band's playing asking me about God, yeah, you don't get in.

The answer?

You're not going to.

Get a good answer 1 you care about when you like.

I appreciate the all, all of the religions.

I I actually try to make an effort to, I don't want to say defend or justify because I think there's just as much bad about religion as there is good in this modern day.

I don't think that's how it started.

Like for example the Christian teaching is called Christian and nothing about Christianity is Christ and they lost that a while ago.

I hear.

People kind of like biblical apologists out there, even ones I like the ones that I really like, I listen to their lectures.

I I just like stuff about biblical stories there.

I know there again when I say biblical stories, those aren't.

The origin of the story.

Wasn't the Bible?

Those are.

Derivatives.

Yeah, yeah.

That's why they're all they're.

All every single religion has insane parallels like the same story with different like names, places exactly if I.

Say, you know, if we're talking in Hindu and I say Krishna, I could just talk in Christian and say Jesus and or if I was in Egypt, I would just call him Osiris.

So it's all the same person, But it's it's not necessarily I'm not against any of any of these things or for them.

And when I listen to a lot of the people, the apologists, I don't I don't necessarily jive with the apologists, how they explain away things.

I'll just give an example 11 who I found his lectures.

This is actually pretty funny.

I found some lectures, A Jungian lectures by Jordan Peterson.

I don't know if you ever heard of him.

Cool Canadian guy.

And a long time ago, about 10 years ago, before he was not even popular, I found his his union lectures for the University of Toronto psychology classes.

They were free.

I know.

Yeah, he had me on these and then he went crazy and I was like, oh, I think I'm off this guy now.

Oh, really?

I I I I appreciate him.

I but I found these union lectures, which I any magician is indie young.

He's like a cornerstone to to magic.

And for anyone with a you know, it's not necessary and it's not required.

I'm not saying that, but like westernized magicians in in America especially and in Europe.

So I'm listening to these cool lectures and you know, he has this idea that I hear him.

He has biblical lectures too, and they're pretty good.

I like listening to those as well, although I don't agree with 50% of the shit he says.

But I'm not really listening to shit for validation or to get a yes man or an attaboy or a pat on the back or like you're, you're thinking the right things.

I'm listening to people's ideas because I just want to hear their ideas.

Like when you listen to a song, you're listening to people's ideas.

You're not.

I don't give a fuck if I agree with you or disagree with you.

I don't even care what you think.

I'm listening to the ideas and it doesn't have anything to do with you as a person or me as a person.

But he says this thing and I don't even mean to bring it up.

It just kind of popped into my head where he says that Christianity is this really great idea.

I'm paraphrasing him because it's lasted so long and this idea wouldn't wouldn't have stuck around for so long if it weren't such a profound idea.

And he's right that it has stuck around because it is a profound idea.

But the idea that stuck around is not Christian.

It predates that.

And also the Christian idea stuck around through genocide.

So it didn't stick around because it was great.

It stuck around force.

And it's still.

Today, stuck around through force, and that's why.

Big, you know.

Big religious institutions like the Catholic Vatican or whatever they choose aside in every war and fund aside in every war, they're one of the, you know, the the biggest propagators of this stuff.

And it doesn't matter if you have reasons or justifications for it.

I'm not talking about that.

I'm just saying your ideas are surviving through force.

And even when they're not surviving through force, it's sublimated warfare.

So like when we go to vote, that's sublimated warfare that we're voting because we're not actually drawing swords anymore.

We're having intellectual conversations in schools because we're not actually doing duels anymore.

This is all just sublimated warfare.

And it's the same with finance.

And that's where they they put these finances in places too.

It's, it's just financial warfare to, to propagate these ideas, which again, I don't have any judgments for that.

That's fine.

But circling it back, I appreciate all all the religions.

I try to make everything right as far as when I hear something, I'm like, well, how?

How could that maybe be true or right?

Not like it's about being right or wrong, but true I guess.

Or what might resonate with me but after.

The and a lot of.

Religions you'll find after you dive into a bunch are pretty consistently similar.

You know, there's not too many.

I always actually think it's funny to bring up how similar some are.

Like people make fun of Mormons for example, Right?

Joseph is a Joseph that found the tablets, started Mormonism in Utah ish.

I don't know if it's Joseph.

But that's that is Mormons found tablets OK, but right and they think that's.

So crazy or they Scientology is another one where, you know, the science fiction wrote, wrote some books and there's these levels of whatever in this and all this other stuff and they think that's really crazy and it's cool to make fun of as well.

But what is Islam?

Muhammad was an illiterate man sitting in a cave that received a vision from an Angel that a scribe wrote that he described.

It happened a little longer ago than Joseph, but it's not any different.

And that's the fastest growing religion in the world.

Also true for.

Thelema.

Thelema, because that was given to him by an Angel and he transcribed it again.

Like Crowley went down that route as well.

Of someone else told me to write this.

It's like a whole.

That's just the go, the go to.

Yeah.

And.

And when I say stuff like that, I'm not like condescending because I believe obviously in angels and even speaking to them, you know, I, I can't verify these things for these people, but this not for me to verify.

They, they know what the hell they know.

And you know, if Crowley says he was visited by his holy guardian Angel that he calls Iwas in the Great Pyramid, then it's his business.

It's not it's not up to me to verify.

I tend to think that he's telling the truth only because you can verify these things through your own practice.

You don't need to take people's word for them.

So anyway, I got a little bit off but.

The Hermetics and.

And just developing a practice and a lot of the things I like about the Hermetic stuff is with Helena Levatsky.

She kind of made this Theosophy order, which was she included a lot of valuable parts of the religion aspect, different ones like some Christian, Catholic, but a lot of Hindu and Indian stuff.

And I just think there's more to it.

I don't think we understand it in the West as as much.

We look at these like elaborate weird stories, but I just think that's because our story was kind of circumcised, no pun intended, and neutered to make it less elaborate.

So when we read the Bible, it's not as fantastical, although if you go to some parts, it does get pretty wicked and wild.

But yeah, I just I I appreciate all of it.

I don't picking up on some of the questions that you asked before the God.

Yeah, of course.

There's no way you can believe in a devil without a God is the devil's a That's what I the.

Devil's a Christian.

What do you mean you believe in God?

I'm like you have to but I don't know what I personally don't know.

Don't know what God is?

Yeah, it's OK.

If he's inconceivable, I think it's.

You don't have to know to know.

Certainly don't think it's the.

Christian God, they might have got a bit.

Carried away with that.

But I don't, I don't really hold that against them.

When when I say things like I'm here for Satan, I think people get confused because I'm not really a devil worshipper.

I never claimed to be and of course why would I want to be a worshiper of the guy that's losing or going to lose and will always lose because Satan the thing that we call Satan is it doesn't really make any sense.

It's that's from the Arabic word called Chaitan and in the Babylonian times and the pre Acadian times they called him Ariman and sometimes they call him Lucifer.

Although Joseph, her and Satan are two different people and.

He's called a bunch of.

Things the son of the morning, the light bearer, things like this.

When you hear someone called the light bearer or the Son of the morning, do you think evil it?

So it doesn't really.

Add up and then you realize aside from the people comment and act like this is so crazy or that I'm so ignorant for saying this, but I'm thoroughly convinced it's my own opinion that 40% of the stuff that we.

Believe or think?

Or we think we know is fiction not in a sense of like when I read the Bible, it's fiction.

I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about Lucifer's characteristics are more taken from Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno then they are the true religions of the world.

And that's weird because you know that it's not accidental, it's APR campaign.

I really, truly believe that it's not an accident that we identify Lucifer as a horned evil.

Pointy.

Tailed.

Yeah, only.

Turned red in like 1200 or something of 1 painter painted in red and then everyone's like, well that's the color of the devil now, yeah.

I don't I don't really really believe that the I like the idea of the Ariman who is, you know, they call him evil.

But in my opinion, evil only exists in this third density world that we have.

When someone say kills kids, we're like they're evil.

If someone steals something, they're like they're not evil.

They're just pores.

We have all these opinions about evil, but I don't think evil is, say we're on this 3D4D5D60, this plane that goes up.

Evil doesn't go very high, you know, It just can't because I think evil is a consequence of ignorance and ignorance is a consequence of unbalanced, and that's what the devil.

That we know the.

Thing called Lucifer or the thing that they used to call a Rayman, he was imbalanced in that he was holy or lopsidedly materialistic.

That's why we call them carnal pleasures or things.

Things of the earth are materialistic.

That's why they say that that this is the devil's playground and that God is in heaven, because this is where he.

All of his manifestations.

And things the physical realm is the only.

Place evil could be anywhere it doesn't go.

Get very high when we talk about Satanism or materialism or whatever it may be.

There's a bunch of people have different definitions of it, which I can't really speak to because I don't know everyone on Earth, but he's just an imbalanced, more material oriented type of I guess manifestation because it it's just you have to have a human being to have evil right you.

Someone has to do.

Something evil.

It's not like love.

If you have no human being, love still exists in my this is my opinion.

People are just going to say this is stupid, but evil isn't.

You need an act.

Oh yeah, because love.

Can be in a memory love can be anything.

Yeah, and you can.

Have a feeling of love?

Can you have a feeling of evil, or can you have an effect?

Maybe when you're killing?

The baby maybe, I don't think you can feel.

Evil.

I think it's all a byproduct of.

I don't know.

I don't.

Know what it is, I don't really try to try to get into the the motives about about that, but the I guess the way that I would put it is.

It's just a little bit.

Imbalanced.

And that's what I think about when I think of Lucifer, Devil or or whatever.

Although I I also believe a few things that I just don't think are true, like in a way, and this is just for fun.

This is not for anyone that's a biblical scholar to sit and argue about, but.

You could say that.

Lucifer was the most loyal Angel because, and this is what I like about Harry Potter, besides being a witch, and I'll tell this devil story up front and I'll tell her.

Then I'll tell the Harry Potter one, which I just appreciate.

The devil was so loyal to God that he refused to serve man even when he commanded him to.

How much more loyalty could you ask for?

He was even willing to sacrifice himself because he said I only serve you.

I'm not serving those people.

And he paid for it and you know, he's, he's still paying for it in that story, in that Christian story, which I just love that my hair stands up when I say it, but it was the same in in the Christian story, if you, you can, people don't really know this, but Judas has a gospel, Mary has a gospel.

There are plenty of Apocrypha gospels that didn't make it into the Bible.

The thing I like about Judas's gospel and in the in the Gospel of Thomas, which is also an Apocrypha and.

The Harry Potter parallel.

Is we call Judas an Iscariot.

We call him the turncoat I I believe Christ had an other disciples named Judas but the one that supposedly snitched on him for 50 bucks.

Although he was.

Some said the most.

Talented of his disciples, his most favorite and the closest to him besides Mary, who he was with and they I believe when he was sitting there in the tent and he said one of you will betray me.

I believe he was giving an order and the only one true enough to him to set him up because Christ knew he had to die was Judas and no one else would.

Thomas was a wasn't going to do it.

And what you're about to say, pussy.

Sorry Thomas.

I love your book, Thomas.

You're a fucking pussy.

I love your book buddy, but.

You just didn't have it and it was Snape and Dumbledore.

It was the same thing.

The only one that would kill Dumbledore and take the hate of everyone in the whole saga was Snape even though he was on the on their team.

And it was the same with Judas.

I believe Jesus was not surprised and caught off guard.

He, Jesus knew what he came to earth for and he knew that he had to die in the way that he had to die, or at least that he had to know that we had to know that he had to die in the way he had to die.

And when he said one of you will betray me, he was saying one of you will betray me.

He wasn't giving a revelation.

He was saying, who's going to do this?

And Judas did it.

And he, he didn't do it for money.

He doesn't need money.

No, you know what I mean.

These these are followers of Christ, if you.

If.

You choose to believe the story.

Some people will just be like, I don't know what you're fucking talking about.

None of that shit's real.

But I don't really care about that.

I'm I, if you read the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Thomas and those those types of things, it makes it very clear that Christ knew exactly what was going to happen and he even out outlines it and.

I kind of got off.

Track a little bit but I'm loving it so.

Don't worry about it, I.

Just think, you know, the devil is not some goofy person on a wine bottle trying to get you to do.

It's easy to blame someone like that, but I don't, I don't think I'm possessed by the devil or doing any devil worship.

Using the imagery, for example, sometimes we use that type of imagery that's there's, it's very obviously.

There's a reason behind.

All of it.

I can't tell you what the reason is because we use it contextually different.

Different, you know, in different contexts.

Like I, we were listening, we were talking about that song Noonday Demon earlier.

I wanted to get into that.

We can get into the now because people are going to be so annoyed we haven't talked about music.

Oh yeah.

It's.

About depression.

Yeah, it has nothing.

They, you know, there's a tome of a book.

It's clinical.

I wouldn't recommend it.

It's dry.

Sorry, whoever wrote it.

I wouldn't.

I don't recommend it.

It's called the Noonday Demon.

It's about depression.

It's about the demon that visits you at noon.

The idea of the song is about depression, although it does talk into more spiritual things, but it you mentioned Solomon.

In there.

Let's hear Solomon.

That was actually the giveaway.

I was like, oh, this is a magic man.

Yeah, anyway.

I digress.

Carry on.

So this the.

Name of the song is actually about depression and I just thought it was poetic to.

You know, refer to this guy.

As the sunlit ghost because that's to me what depression is.

That's why it says the demon comes at noon and it's not like a dark or a goofy whatever.

It's way deeper than that.

Any time you listen to a, even though it's hilariously comical, like I'll say fuck and shit and bitch and stuff and some of the king shit is like, I don't want to say satire, but almost like I.

Don't.

Want to say character either because it's it's serious, but I don't write things on paper.

So when I say things, it's how I would say them.

So you don't write on paper.

The songs.

So obviously, if any person with common sense and I, I have a contrary to popular belief, I have like a tiny bit of common sense, right.

If I'm sitting down and writing a song and.

Let me just pick.

Funny lyrics like in alpha and Omega.

I'll just say one that everyone knows.

It's my favorite song I'm not writing out, bitch.

I am the powers that be.

I'm just saying it.

But what are you even?

Writing.

I am the powers that be.

No, not writing anything.

You don't write lyrics.

Down.

No, no, no, no.

It's.

Just a play.

You just do what you're supposed to do.

You just hit record.

Yeah, well, I'll.

Listen to the thing and I'll sit there and I might even write down just ideas, themes, some colors, some thoughts I'll consider.

Consider the similarities between Judas the Iscariot and Snape and just.

Or or just have a.

Think or have a meditation or maybe even do some hypertrophic breathing or some, you know, Hatha or Raja yoga type of vibe kind of tap in.

I'm getting I'm listening to the music, I'm doing all that stuff and then I just start building it and what I want to say and then I say it naturally, which I I would just be huffing my own farts, but it sounds natural the way that I say it.

That's why I'm so.

Fucking shocked I think when you write.

Something down, you lose it and people just think that that's goofy.

But when I read words on a page, nothing in me gets excited like lyrics.

I mean to songs it's it's so goofy and when you say it how you want to say it and just with words without being because when you we do the same thing.

When you're texting you, you're editing as you're writing.

But that's because I'm stupid.

Yeah, no, but you.

Know you know when you're putting together a piece of writing, you're.

Thinking about.

It but when we're talking right now, I'm not thinking, I'm not thinking about anything.

I'm just words are just coming out of my mouth and that's what I want the songs to feel like.

So the the point of me saying that is I'm not writing this some of this goofy shit out and I'm just kind of letting it flow through.

And now that I told you I wasn't thinking, I'm going to forget what the question was.

No, but no.

We're just talking about Noonday Demon and you, you told me you don't write lyrics down, and I caught you up because I'm need that info right now.

I'm like, sometimes when you're singing, I guess it's singing.

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Talking and screaming.

Or whatever.

Sometimes you sound like you're, you're speaking human words, but there's like a rasp, like you're speaking in tongues.

And now you tell me that you don't write the words down.

I'm like this motherfucker is conjuring shit.

Yeah, well, there's some.

Conjuring in there for the ether.

I think that's.

Yeah, maybe it's from spending too many years out of voodoo ceremonies and things like that to where now I'm, I think I'm, I'm really spitting.

As the kids say, you are, you are.

You are though mate, you are spitting well I.

Also, believe in the tone or the tambour and the tonality of the words.

That's what I'm saying when you write something on paper.

I appreciate poetry because poetry is to be read.

Songs are to be sang that they're not made to be written down.

You're not supposed to fucking write that down.

It's not.

That's not what it's for.

It kills it.

And you think of verbs and adjectives.

Oh, I put the in there.

Why did I put AI might have to take a out.

The syllabic value doesn't work with the line.

There's 4 beats here, There's a six.

Why did I put a three syllable word before A5?

What is this, a fucking haiku da da da da da?

When you're just talking and you hear the music and you start spitting.

Then you're like, why did my voice just.

Change tone.

It's because the music told it to.

I'm not thinking oh what if I do AC note?

I don't even know what a fucking C note is.

It's surprise.

I know it's $100 bill but I don't know what AC note or AB note or AD note.

You know this surprises me.

So much because you're obviously well read, well spoken.

I'd imagine that you wanted to get it down and perfect on paper, but no.

This is cool.

How?

Long does it take you to track an album?

Then how long?

We just did our album.

In four hours wait, so hang.

On every lyric.

Can't have been off the Dome.

Were these Oh, no, no, these were demoed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, otherwise you.

Like to write 1 the most.

Talented man on the.

Planet if I have some.

Music that I like.

It doesn't take more than 4030 minutes of song to finish.

From nothing to done to complete.

Damn.

That's fast, but it's hard to find a good piece.

Of music that you appreciate or to write 1 you know, that's that's a little bit harder for me.

I don't like I I just did a project, it was last year with Landon, my friend from Platinu, and it's so sick.

And this was maybe the easiest.

It's the same when I work with Josh where they'll write a piece of music that I just love and I can do the vocals, lyrics and performance in 10 minutes or something.

Pretty much if I fall in love with this, with the song when and it worked with him because they're both writers and producers and it works that it works that way with Josh for most of our records as well.

Especially, you know, since we've been working together since the very first record.

Sometimes he'll be like, check this out and I'll be like, it's done.

Turn the mic on.

That happens more times than it don't happen.

But when something doesn't?

Strike me.

I'm just like, I just save that, put it in a folder for later, you know, see if it strikes.

You a different time, yeah, but.

The point is I have this kind of thing and when I think about something like new to demons, the demon comes at noon, the singing of the tune, it just unpacks this thing, this kind of the scaffolding of thoughts.

And and, and I wanted to make it clear I'm not talking about religion or science or things like that.

I just go straight to the spiritual fact with fact to me.

People will argue with this.

I mean, people are getting killed for this right now over there.

But when it the opening line is God gave me this life so I could fuck up.

So I don't believe that anyone's going to hell or heaven or anything like that, because those ideas are just human ideas for earth.

It doesn't.

God doesn't give a fuck about you should do your best and you should be the best, whatever.

But the human experience is to be experienced.

And we wouldn't have all the good in the world that there wasn't all the evil in the world.

And it's shouldn't be your role to see if you can do all the evil that you can.

I don't think that's not what I'm telling people to do.

That's not what I try to do anyway.

But also I don't believe evil judgment and condemnation and Hellfire and all the other stuff is.

Waiting at the end of the.

Road and I don't believe this is the only life, obviously.

I think.

I think it's when we were kids, reincarnation was like controversial.

Now everyone just is like, yeah, the reincarnation thing, yeah.

Like it's just a coffee.

Table talk and is that what you believe?

I know that it's true.

No.

Categorically, no.

Yeah.

See, I don't know what I believe.

How do you know?

Just experientially.

Leave leaving your body visiting other.

A scientist person would just say that this is an imagination or a dream.

But I would just say that the scientific person is the dream and the dream is the real world.

Some people call it astral travel or out of body, or that's what I think I did.

With.

The Empire State Building.

But like it was still me so easy on a different timeline.

Anyone who is into?

This knows that it's funny when people say it's still me because you are you.

So you have to understand your name might not be Craig and your name might not be Reynolds, but you were Craig before you were Craig, and before that you were Craig, a different Craig.

Before that it was a different Craig.

So this isn't life.

One this is multiple no this.

This could be life one for you.

I don't know.

I haven't checked you out.

We haven't ran your numbers yet.

But what I'm saying is in your last carnation, you you might not have had the painted nails in the hand taps, but you were still you.

And this is just a human experience and you're going through these expressions and what what would it be like if you were playing a video game where you had endless lives?

See that's.

That's more what I think, but I I would love to at least in between lives.

See what my true?

Form is do you know what I mean?

Like if I die, I think I subscribe more to like simulation theory then and how that links in with magic and everything in the way that we can manipulate the world through thought and free will.

I think my most the way that I can make that into the logic in my brain is some kind of simulation theory.

I think that works for.

Modern day age, but you will know or you should know that the Hindus just called it reincarnation and sort of the Chinese and then everyone else on earth, we Westerners that.

Turn everything into.

A computer reference people.

Believe Nicholas.

Bostrom wrote the simulation theory in the 90s, and that's what we're in, and it was a breakthrough in physics and a very cool quantum discovery.

I guess it really is.

Just reincarnation, right?

But let me just in the Bible, when he says there's nothing new under the sun, that's what he means.

He means you can call it, you know, you can be a fan of Nicholas Bostrom and you can say that the simulation theory is the simulation.

You can love Bray Kurtz well and claim that he's going to download consciousness on a chip and everyone's going to be living forever.

But Google can throw all that money to me because I got I got the answer and we already are living forever.

I've never thought.

That it's just reincarnation without computers.

That's all we do.

Is kind of computerize everything.

So just think about we call a massive amount of thoughts that come to us downloads.

We call what is inside that computer memory.

That computer has no memory.

It never will.

It just can't.

That's not how things that's not how things work.

Memories aren't even stored in here.

So how are they in stored in there, right?

We call the thing that we've touched a keyboard.

It's not a key to anything, you know what I mean?

So we call it these.

Everything that.

We, we kind of computerize everything into that type of, I don't know, thinking.

So that's why we think simulation theory is so interesting, but it's not.

There's, there's pictures describing simulation theory carved in a wall in India, 7000 years old.

You can think about it differently or, or whatever.

I don't I think in a way though.

It does make more people be able to understand even.

I didn't even fucking put it two and two together with it being reincarnation, but like conceptually in this digital age.

It is maybe.

A better gateway to thinking like that because you are work with computers and stuff like that and just think well, that's the weight of our.

Language right.

So I think if the Christians that was their their language and the the and that's why the story.

Changes the Islam's the Indians.

They had the Hindu and this is their language and this is their thing.

And the Egyptians had the Nile River and the things.

This is the language of their time.

And we can.

We can use the of our time.

It's less cool.

It's way less cool.

So less cool.

Yeah, maybe in like 2000 years this will be cool and there'll be like super nerds and they'll have a new theory for it.

They will have to be super.

Nerds, right?

But they'll laugh at us.

At how?

Stupid we were.

Just like we we laugh at the people in the ME.

And you will be on a different plane, having this exact same conversation about old knowledge.

While we've all got this new knowledge, we're still talking about the old knowledge.

Yeah, but I think when?

You said something like, I'd like to know what the person in between lives is like and when and when you said what is or who is God.

You can't know the person in between.

You can't know what God is because God is is God and he knows you.

And you know, to say that you're going to know him is like saying that you're going to know yourself.

It doesn't make any sense, but.

The person in between.

Lives is is used and it's easily knowable and you know him often and since time is kind of a human made thing, you're knowing him right now and there's easy ways to to know him while you're still living in this body as well.

But the goal is not really to know him.

He he came down here in Craig's body to rock on some drums and do this thing and do his thing for this experience.

Get rid of the depression.

Then bro, do me a favor, do me the good shit, yeah?

Well, putting the putting the whole fix, the quick fix is not that's not great.

It's it's kind of like if you're playing Contra and you're just side scrolling, you you have unlimited lives and you want to be like, beat the game for me.

Who the fuck would do that?

Yeah, true.

Wouldn't you want to play the fucking game?

And then you're like, well, I got unlimited lives.

Let me see what it'd be like to die on the first enemy.

Because I'm I'm not bored.

I've beat it a few times or or or maybe not it usually not that way.

Usually you have to work through it.

What's but what's the point of where you will, if you don't have to work through experientially your life and you know, through experience and stuff.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that can come and give you a hand.

That's why we're trying to summon angels inside of the pyramids like Crowley.

But most people don't spend their life doing that.

Most people spend their life reading text messages and shit video games.

I do like video games, but there's a time and a place, and it is exactly after dinner.

That's my time and my place, right?

I need to talk about your fucking album or else everyone's going to be annoyed.

Do people like when you talk?

About music the most, No.

OK.

I was.

Just curious because I wouldn't think that because it's so boring these days that I would.

I would wonder why music would be the.

Primary I.

Personally love.

It when we don't talk about music, but I do want, I genuinely want to know some stuff about your music.

And then I've also made the press agent happy and everything else, you know what I mean?

So is the record called Rust Belt Numel?

Yeah, that's the name of the album.

No.

Click no editing one take or is it 1 take?

Like 1 take per song or did you do multiple takes?

We did 2.

Takes of each song and we only did 2 takes of each song because we had 50 people there in the studio and so everyone had these cans.

Oh really?

It was like.

A It wasn't no bullshit.

Yeah, it was.

We had 50 pairs of headphones, chairs sitting there watching the recording, which most people would be like.

That's fucking up the artistic process, but I think that's cool.

I think it's, I think it's kind of.

Cool.

It's kind of exclusive.

It's kind of like a show.

It's kind of live and it's kind of like the mood that I was in.

This kind of came to me when I was in Egypt in December.

I went for a month and I stayed for Sorry to laugh.

It's just fucking funny.

I'm trying to talk about something else.

Well, actually it's came to me when I was in Egypt.

I'll give you a Cliff note.

So I, I smell I like it.

I'll do a brief SparkNotes.

I spent a month in Egypt from December to January, the Christmas, New Year's, I'm a Capricorn.

My birthday is December 30th.

So I spent my birthday actually

from 2:00 AM to 5:00 AM in the Great Pyramid alone.

Like oh wow.

Yeah.

So this is tapping in, yeah?

And it was a New Capricorn moon.

This wasn't when I had this vision.

I had a bunch of other visions.

And I just spent three hours alone, you know, meditating this Queen's chamber, the King's chamber, the subterranean chamber, all these places.

You can't go in in there all night, in the middle of the night.

How did you do this?

You have to contact the government of Tourism and Antuities to get a inspector and a permit and they will let you in.

You didn't like break in.

You can't break in.

You can, maybe you have talent, but I just, I don't.

Think.

They will guaranteed let you in.

I think I worked on it for six months and it was thousands of dollars, but it was important and.

Don't get me wrong, I don't.

I think.

It's.

It's also not.

Important to do that if you don't feel like it, but it's what I wanted to do anyway.

And so how I wanted to spend my birthday and and things like this.

And this, this isn't what the download that I got that day.

I was just saying when I was there, I had this this kind of this vision and it was a cool idea to to do this album this way.

So it said I'm the solstices and the equinox.

So March, June, September, you'll make an album, 9 songs, 3 songs, 999.

It's the 2025 of the year of the 9, you'll have 3 records that come on these, the equinox and solstice are like assembled across where there's four of them.

How the earth sits.

You make these records.

It's just what you're supposed to do.

That's that's not, I'm not going to say what happened, but I just had this inside of Why not?

I'm cool with.

Saying 90% of stuff, but some stuff I don't really know how to say it and you it's.

Not good juju to say it now before you've done it all.

Surely I don't mind that.

Because it's it was also a challenge when I heard this.

It's almost like someone else telling it to me.

I'm like, there's no fucking way you think someone can make 3 records in a year.

This is hilarious because I don't really like The Beatles, but the instant I said, do you think someone can make three?

I'm talking to my subconscious at this point because I've been talking to that thing for like 30 years.

The minute I said it said The Beatles did it and I'm like, which I, which is hilarious because I didn't know they did it because I don't know anything about them, because I don't like them.

You know what I mean?

You sure that was your?

Subconscious, you were talking to a great pyramid.

It could have been the English.

Ambassador and no I.

Meant more like a fucking demon it could have been.

No, no, yeah.

If it was talking about The Beatles, yeah, I'm sure it was a demonic, you know, Yoko, she's that's a witch right there.

Dark 1.

I had this insight and it's like, you're going to do these records and this, you're going to do them this way da da, da da.

And I can't remember if I was thinking or if I was just tired, maybe I don't really recall which came first.

But it was kind of, I think everyone on earth is kind of tired of the homogeneity the and especially in this type of music.

We were talking about it a little bit at the gym while we got into this music because it was kind of iconoclastic and it was a little against the grain and it was kind of rough around the edges and it was kind of anti establishment, right?

And now it's just nothing.

But it's just a bunch of old crybaby dudes, like tatted from head to toe crying because other dudes like their feelings.

Yeah, exactly.

Which is disgusting or you you have like crazy black metal dudes dressed up in spikes and blood pig vomit all over them while they're playing live upside down crosses and complaining about Trump on Twitter.

I just we got to lose one of these things.

You know, it's just it's just goofy.

So the the point being, I don't know if I was thinking this at the time or if it's just a response to just do something challenging because we have a click track when we play live.

Not always, but we have one.

And we will also have all of our backing tracks of the crazy production that we try to put in.

Songs, noises that aren't even instruments, stuff like all of the cinematic stuff and all the extra stuff we want to.

That's the stuff that we like, but I thought it would be challenging to do something with none of that.

So there's no programming, there's no keyboard, there's no quantizing.

We're not.

We'll do.

Edits.

Like add compression.

We'll do things like, well, I mean like.

Chopping, I can hear that.

It's not like obviously it's impossible to do if you're playing.

It's recorded live, popping everything up, putting it on the grid.

So it becomes very stagnant.

Yeah.

And it's.

Not good.

But we had some problems in this building.

There was a hum and we couldn't get rid of this hum.

So we spent, we only did different.

Yeah, exactly.

So for two days we, we, we had one day to prep and then one day to record.

So prep just means set up amps and we could not get rid of this humming.

And we were using 1990 DoD era pedals.

So this is the grunge DoD distortion, the Super distortion, the American metal, the envelope filter, the all the old classics we all had as kids just to make it the same idea theme for the feel for the record and real pedals.

You know, I spent all day cleaning them, got them independent power sources, independent wiring, all this other stuff to make sure it was as good as possible for the sound, the clarity.

Try to do as as much as we could by way of that.

And then also so that everyone listening would have a halfway decent recording to listen to without being so processed that we spent the whole day trying to get rid of this hum and we couldn't.

So this is a long way of saying the guitar tone on this album sucks.

Flat out sucks.

I'm not even going to sit and act like anyone in the band thinks it's cool.

It's shot because we didn't get to dial in a tone the the whole first day was supposed to be set your amp up, which takes 5 minutes.

Unbelievable amps, doctor ZS she like this like cool boutique amps, which some people would say is the problem, but it wasn't.

And spend most of the day getting the tones and then basically running logistics where you're thinking you know, you have to have someone sit in 50 chairs and make sure 50 sets of headphones work and shit like that right?

So we spent all day trying to get rid of this hum and this fucking guitar tone is shot the bit.

The bass tone is good, the drums sound good.

I didn't think it was that bad it.

Didn't stick out.

At me I definitely and I'm one to go like that sucks.

Didn't stick out me.

It sounded raw.

Then we were thinking.

Well, that sounds raw, so yeah, I mean.

Look at like the first self-titled Korn album.

Like it's growling, though.

It's growling, yeah, but it's like.

Objectively not good, but it's crawling.

That's what I mean.

So you were like giving yourself shit?

I don't know, I wish it was crawling.

Well, why don't?

You you've got three more to do 2 more 2.

More.

Wait, so hang on, they're not released on the Equinox?

No, they're recorded.

On the equinox, it's important to record them on the Yeah.

That makes more sense.

So we.

Recorded it March 23rd.

The next one is June 20 when I have to check that out.

But it's really raw.

And like I said, I don't know.

I can't remember in the vision.

Was it a response to the Homogeneous?

I just get again, just to rehash because we kind of got off track.

Like the reason why I'm into this and like this and the reason why King is king in the way that it is.

And it's all fucked up and people think it's all whack and people think it's crazy that I'm at January 6th or that we make pornography music videos or that we make, you know, all the things that we do.

It's like, this is what we like about this.

This is like, well, to me, it's who I am.

So it's, it's kind of dissing me when they, when they say this, but I don't care because that's the, that's like what I signed up for.

It doesn't hurt my feelings, but I'm pretty white trash.

And that's just, I'm just into wild shit and doing stuff.

And I'm but I'm into a bunch of shit but like.

I guess the point.

Is this is what I liked about this type of music, is that it was, I don't want to say edgy because that whole term has been high.

No, the original.

It's the right word, but in the original context, because that's what came into my head.

Yeah, in these days.

Our records, our records like our types of music, the stuff that we do even though our bands don't sound anywhere near the same.

It's the weakest.

Sounded shit out.

It's so everyone just pulls up the Gojira VST and fucking rocks out or or pulls up the it's a great VST.

It's a great the neural Gojira is fantastic.

It's.

Maybe the best live band I've ever seen.

Oh yeah, they're the best.

It's an unbelievable VST.

I want a lot of people to buy that VST.

Do you know that they.

Sponsored the podcast or did you just?

I didn't had no clue.

I'm just saying it's different when you have producers like, I don't know, like Buddy, will Putney, he he knows every one of our.

Records.

He's one of my best friends when he makes a record.

You can kind of tell it's his record.

Yeah, that's different.

That's why we that's not what I'm talking about.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about motherfuckers just dumping poop after poop.

I'm like, I just want to hear something that's real.

This is another reason why we did it live in a room is because I'm not by the way, I don't have any, I'm not feeling myself at all.

But I don't think bands can even do this anymore.

I'm not.

And I'm not saying that because I think we're awesome.

I'm saying that because again, I was wondering if we could as well.

Not, not that I know we're all talented, but I, I, when I think of an idea to do in, putting out three records in in a year is pretty crazy.

But putting out three live records in front of an audience and then saying you're going to do it and then having to do it because you just said you were going to do it is even crazier.

And then doing it completely all independently with no label and no funding and no anything at all is also crazy.

And then also not having any of the songs written when you said that you were going to do it is also another challenge, which I appreciate all these challenges.

That's kind of what I was going for.

And I was just trying to be like, how can we make it impossible?

I don't think that many bands can do this type of shit.

And, and I didn't know that we could either.

So part of it is the challenge where I was like, let's just make a few live records like Rage did and you know, 90, 2 was it 2 when they did, they did almost the same thing, although they used isolation cabinets, which we did not do and they overdubbed the the first the first record.

Yeah, I think it's 199090.

OK.

Think don't quote.

Me on that, but they did they.

Did that same thing and that could have been a sub level where I got the idea one of the best.

Records of all time, Yeah, it's.

It's so sick so but you're annoyed about the.

Guitar tone.

The guitar tone's not.

Good.

But that's part of the.

It's part of it.

Is it better on the second one?

It's going to have to be.

We're doing.

It in June, we're doing it next month.

Do you not worry?

I get the feeling that the answer is just going to be no, I don't fucking care, but like you ask if you don't worry.

Just say no.

Yeah, I know, but I want your.

Thoughts on it?

So with the homogenization of music, which I also fucking hate, and most of the bands I listen to.

Really have to be doing.

Something different for me to really get involved.

However, most of the bands that are insanely popular and I am happy for their success and whatever bands that are huge but I don't listen to and they all sound the same.

Not.

Songwriting wise, but I think like audio wise, like we're talking about right now, like it's the same drum program is the same guitar program.

Do you not worry that the listener is so used to the homogenized music that they won't get it?

No.

That was a good question.

But but the answer is just.

No, no, I never even had.

That thought, I think we have great sounding records.

Josh, I think is the best.

I want to make 100 records with him.

I don't ever want to not make a record with him.

I think he kind of kindred spirits in that sense where we make these crazy records and the craziest one we've ever made is like it's almost done and then we're going to put that on next year in 26 has nothing to do with what we're talking about, so hang on.

4 records in two years it's going to be 5.

5 records in.

Two years, yeah.

Probably people will be tired of the band by then, but no, I think you can get away with.

It with the live ones I think you can get because they're an event.

This is an event I like.

That they're an event.

I don't think that's going to really, I mean, think about rappers.

Rappers just bring out a song.

I'll write a song yesterday.

Here it is.

Like, I kind of wish that was more in our kind of music.

Yeah, I.

Don't really I think about things like that a little bit more rather than I when I hear these people, like for example, we're on tour right now.

When I hear these people talk about tour and how it's such hard work, we are completely independent.

We have no one working for us.

Almost we have.

4 awesome chicks.

Agents, PR, you know, whatever.

As far as being on the road, none.

No, no crew.

We don't have people doing things.

We don't.

I don't have anyone wiping my ass.

We have no management.

We have no label.

Being on tour is not work.

You work an hour a day maybe.

And again, I'm not saying it because I am not told to show up to stage.

I'll just repeat it.

We are.

We drive in a vehicle, a van, we drive it ourselves.

We don't have a driver.

We don't have no one checks my shit and says report to stage at 7:00 and then you'll play and then you can be your shit and leave for the rest of the day and go hang out with chicks.

We're doing everything you do as a touring and it's not work.

And when I hear people talk about making an album, it's not work either.

It sounds just like a bunch of shitty kids that don't know what real work is.

They're like, oh we made this album, we just did this album and it's like you did that album 2 years ago.

People's children are starting school that they birthed and you think those 8 songs you did are doing anything on the planet of Earth?

That's no judgement against them.

They can.

No, it's funny.

I.

Just don't because.

I do that and I've got a drum.

Tech and I've got a tour manager and I use them all the fucking time.

Oh, but then I come home with less money and I'm annoyed about it, so yeah.

It's it's work, but it's.

Work for someone else.

I'm still not at work.

In fact, I'm definitely not at work.

Someone else's work, even sitting right here, right now.

Right, We've been doing something for an hour or two now, 42.

142.

Which is a MET.

That's a magical number, but it's not work to me.

And even though we played these cameras up, bro.

Work.

It's not.

Work.

It's not work.

This is.

This is my this is my vacation.

I feel the same way.

About touring and making music and stuff like that.

Even when you're talking about, do you do you worry that they?

That they.

Think that the over polished stuff they they might not get it or they might not like it.

I only care about the people that get it or like it, but I don't that's why I don't care about like you said a second ago when you said, you know even bands I don't care.

I don't listen to or don't necessarily like, I'm happy for their success, but da da da da we're.

We're doing.

We're fans, you know, we do like shit.

Obviously I think both of us do because we are talking at the gym about the things we liked.

But it's not.

Some things aren't for everyone.

And also we like what we're supposed to like and we do what we're supposed to do.

And I don't know the consensus or the general population has never liked King ever.

We've never been, I don't think.

Cool.

You were so cool.

Really.

Yeah, 100.

Percent.

I'm not.

I'm not.

Complaining, I'm just saying I I don't I only think about the people that that want to hear it and I just feel like I have this creative.

This sounds goofy, but this kind of well, this infinite well of creativity that I don't people have asked the same thing about saturation.

Like you think you're you're going to over saturate this shit and I'm like.

I'm not even in the.

Market.

I'm only making music for a couple 10s of thousands of people that like it.

That's it.

If more people want to like it, cool.

If less people want to like it, cool.

If they don't like it, I still know how to make cool, big, cinematic, sounding awesome, whatever.

Stay tuned for that.

That's probably coming around the corner.

But right now I'm doing this and this is what I want to do.

And this is what we thought would be cool as a interesting, challenging.

I when I think about things, you know, besides rage and there's probably a bunch of other people, but I don't hear about anyone doing the shit that we're doing.

And that's kind of when we sit around brainstorming about what we want to do, we the first thing has to be, is anyone doing this?

And if the answer is, yeah, it's not going on very high on the list.

So now I don't, I don't worry about any of that.

In fact, it's a prerequisite.

That we have to acknowledge right off the jump that people aren't going to be into the idea.

And I'm not going to explain it to anyone either.

I think people will.

Be I just like devil's advocate thinking like people who listen to that really, really Polish stuff.

But then there's another, there's like a completely separate conversation that can be had about, you know, like grunge, when grunge came out, came out of hair metal where everything was over polished and over the top and super shiny.

And then there was listener fatigue.

And then grunge happens and everyone was like, what the fuck is this?

And it's like, well, that's real.

That's the real stuff.

Yeah.

You know, you could be, you could actually be hitting it right at the right time.

Like even bands like Turnstile being the biggest fucking band on Earth, like that raw.

Like you'd be hitting the raw time, right, even though you don't want to and you don't care?

Yeah, maybe.

I was.

I was.

Fucking I hate listening to music.

And I was like, I was like, oh, you told me the concept and I was like, fuck yeah, I'm going to.

You sent me the link.

I said listen to it straight away.

Like, yeah, I was wondering.

I was.

Like, I hate to, I hate to send this to him, but he asked so I'm going to.

But I don't like to, man, just because I don't like shit, I guess.

And although I I follow things that fall into my path and that I know that I'm supposed to pay attention to, but I hate to hit someone with eight or nine songs and be like, hey, you got the 40 minutes for me.

You know what's the worst?

Though and you did it, but everyone does it, it's just how it works.

The worst is the Google Drive link.

I can't stand it.

It's.

Like and.

It puts me out like it's a running bit.

I hate music.

I obviously don't fucking hate music.

I make music on music podcasts.

But like oh I hate you mean to make me click another button every after that?

Soft one, the biggest company on earth that's arguably running the world.

I cannot make a fucking playlist function let.

Me put you up on.

Game.

I don't know if you know this.

I don't use Google Drive.

Our producer does.

That's why it's there.

I don't use Google Drive and never will.

I'll use, I'll use it because he sends me the link.

I, I don't, I'm not like a shill.

I don't have any endorsements or any, you know, whatever.

Google's not paying you.

No, no, Contrary to punching the money, though I know you know I.

Know I make it's you know I've put take a robot face off and tell you this whole time I was not in Peru I'm Google Drive I'm Mr.

Drive I was in I'll.

Show you where to drive Silicon Valley, getting my gears changed, and I'll drive you.

Somewhere in Spotify you can make playlists of files off your computer or phone.

Oh, I didn't know.

That yeah.

Oh, that's a.

Fucking way easier way to do.

It and accidentally leaked your records though I don't give a fuck.

Yeah, yes, you don't really give.

A.

Is there anything you give a fuck about?

Oh, I got a question for you.

What is?

It you just asked.

Me a question.

No, no, no, I got a new.

One.

I got a new one.

It's bad.

I will ask you in a minute, is there anything you have a fuck about?

But you've been shot and you've been stabbed, is that correct?

Yeah.

Which is worse?

I'm from the countryside.

Of England I We don't even have guns.

Was it the same day I got?

Shot two different times, once with a handgun that was OK, once with a shotgun that was OK.

What do?

You mean OK?

Like not that bad.

I've had worse.

OK, stabbed and then a Whoa, whoa, whoa.

A shotgun.

Shotgun.

That clock shot that was a little more rough only because it just felt like more burning.

I guess the easiest way to describe it was I got shot in the side, in the leg, the handgun, and I knew that I got shot because I was behind a pole, telephone pole, and the parts that were sticking out got shot.

I knew that because I could feel it happened when I got shot with a shotgun.

I just felt it all over.

But it was because the buck shots went all in my legs, my feet, my sides and my in the side of me.

It was more burning, but it it was just more of the same thing.

The stab.

I remember feeling cold.

Like the opposite.

Almost there was no it one wasn't worse than the other.

I just the only thing I remember because I was a kid at the time, you know, I was 20 or whatever.

I only remember the pain coming from some type of this sounds fucked up to say and I'm not trying to make things like gruesome or anything, but I think that I was so mad that I maybe couldn't kill the guy before he might have killed me that I was in this angry pain like frustration and worry.

I don't want to say fear, I want to say I was so worried that I would die before I somehow got to kill this guy.

And that's the only.

Thing So what I was when I say worry or fear, I could be is I thought I don't know where I'm hit.

I don't know where I'm stabbed, don't know where I'm shot, don't know anything about it.

I can feel stuff and there's shit going on my shoes, my coat, my shirts filling up the blood I'm and all this other shit is going on.

It could be in my heart.

Could be I don't fucking know you don't you just like, did he blow my leg out?

You don't really know.

It's dark.

It's in the middle of the night and, you know, and I was just so pissed that I might die before this guy died for revenge.

Right.

I feel like that's how I'd be.

I'd probably cry like a little fucking baby, but I feel like after the whimpering I'd have been like, motherfucker, yeah, I remember.

That feeling and it was like a almost like a rapturing of worry, which doesn't really make any sense.

And it also doesn't really tell answer the question about pain.

But that was the I wanted the story.

I didn't.

Really care about the pain.

Yeah, you did.

You did great.

That's exactly so shot.

Shot and stab at the same time.

What the fuck happened?

Only once.

Yeah.

The second time I got shot was just shot.

Just a drive by.

Just a drive by it.

Was a light drive by.

Tuesday afternoon, simple drive, just a.

Common drive by I'm misunderstanding.

Yeah, wrong place, the wrong time, but then what?

Happened the other time, a group of people that I don't.

Like, don't like me.

Apparently they try to rob me.

I wrote about it in my book a little bit.

They pulled up, pulled a gun out.

Like give me your stuff.

I did something you shouldn't do if someone holds a gun out.

I know exactly.

What you're going to say because I grabbed my.

Dick and said you can get this back.

I thought, I've never been in that situation, but in my head I've thought about what I would do and it's always like, especially if it's robbing, I really don't trust myself to not go.

You're going to have to kill me.

Yeah.

And that's that's not that's stupid, but.

I was 20.

Eight, I'm not I'm not coming back, you know, into the past to justify the actions of my 20 year old self Yeah, I'm still I'm.

Still there I I did.

That and they circled around the block.

I was hyping myself up, talking to myself like, Oh yeah, if that motherfucker, I'm just making shit up.

You know how it is when you these close calls and you're like, if that dude would have got out, I would have did the this and that and the other while I'm fantasizing about what happened, he dropped one of his buddies off behind me and he snuck up behind me and just stabbed me so.

Then I start fighting.

With him, you know.

And again this.

Isn't like to be cool?

This is all public.

Everyone this is like a public thing, you know what I mean?

Everyone everyone in the neighborhood for sure knows but also I couldn't find on the.

Internet.

That's why I'm doing this.

That's why this would be a clip.

Just refer to this.

Clip let's sell records.

Bro, we're going to get so.

Many sales.

Oh wait, I've got 1.

There we go.

You're.

Going to sell records, kid.

Yeah, it actually backfired.

All that stuff kind of backfired because when we came out, people were like, oh, you're from Flint.

Oh, you were into gangs and doing all this that.

I'm like, yeah.

And the PR side of things was heavy on that because it's maybe interesting to them.

I don't know.

Again, this is not blame.

I don't care.

It's just what happened.

But so that's kind of what everyone got obsessed with.

And I read this funny, my friends send me comments because I I have this rule to only spend 60 seconds on social media.

So 7 minutes a week.

And wow, they'll send me these things just to make me fucking just to.

Keep me frosty.

Keep me on my toes and they'll send me these comments like.

I thought this.

Motherfucker was gangbang and this fucking guy's worshipping the devil.

That's what we said though.

That's.

Cool.

And I'm like.

Fuck.

Then I, I, I don't give any credence to it.

It's just some funny comments.

But like I, I start thinking about it and then I just try to be constructive, I guess.

Think about why is that?

Why do people think that?

Because to me, you already went through it.

This is the very first thing.

This is a good bookend.

This is the very first thing you you asked.

You were like, I'm confused that we got demons here, we got voodoo and we got this da da, da, da da and we got Rob Robin.

The Kmart like that's exactly what.

I'm what I'm saying is the very first EP we made in 2011, it has a goetic, a real goetic ritual in the booklet.

I never knew that.

This isn't and.

These are not images like from the Internet.

This is a real right?

And I'm like, yo, our first record, our first EP, this is 1314 years ago.

Our first record 1011 years ago are weird as fuck.

Yeah, you're coming out.

Anyone who doesn't?

Think that's weird?

I I'm completely out of my mind and yeah.

I mean it's it's from the very.

1st jump off.

So I I just wonder that part not as maybe as emphasized well that would.

Correct me if I'm wrong, first EP was physical only and then didn't come on streaming until like yeah yeah you fucked up So it was only.

Put it on.

I don't.

Even know what streaming was.

At the time, yeah, There we go.

Re released that, we threw that on the streaming.

Later, because that's just something, but they're I'm.

Not getting the booklet on the you need the booklet I need.

I need the.

Booklet carry one around with me I'm.

Going to get you a booklet.

All right.

Can I have one?

Yeah, have.

You got one?

Can I have a physical?

A physical copy?

I'll send them all.

To you I will trade you.

Whatever you want.

I mean.

Definitely not, that was painted by Kojira himself.

No, no clothes or something?

I'll give you clothes, whatever you.

Want I'll give you clothes, but definitely not that.

Because I looked at that when I.

Came in, I was like, Oh yeah, like that.

Yeah.

No, that's.

Unfortunately that is a gift from Mario from Gojira.

He painted that for me.

What a guy.

What a fucking nice guy.

And then came on here and made me feel bad about how much I practice the drums because he still practices 2 hours a day with two kids every single day.

So you should have just told.

Him you have 4 kids.

Doubled it.

I've got 4 kids motherfucker, so I can only practice for half as much time.

Let's wrap it up.

You are.

I could do this for like 5 hours.

Let's do it next time I come.

Into town just coming.

Come.

Here like.

Maybe 5 * a year.

Oh fuck yeah.

We'll do it properly, We'll do proper.

We'll do a follow up.

When does rust out?

New metal come out, comes out.

On the very peculiar date of 6969.

Which is backwards for me.

So June 9th, the 9th of June.

That's on a.

Month.

Away on a Monday.

It's a Monday.

Only the greatest bands put out records on Monday.

Monday is the day of the moon.

That's why it's called Moon Day.

You are really.

Doing shit.

It's lucky you don't have a.

Team because they'd be so pissed off.

Maybe that's why I don't.

Have one, yeah, their hair would be falling out.

They would talk about how it won't stream because it's getting picked up in the second-half of the week and it won't count towards the whatever.

You got a talk coming up.

After September.

September the the month of September, the very end of August, it's called Welcome to the Rust Belt.

UK, Europe.

UK, Europe.

Yeah, we're.

Going to let you in.

So we're going.

To Rock over, rock Over there with my buddy Josh is Band Bangs Arcade.

Yeah.

That's a weird line up.

That's a weirdo.

Yeah, well, he's weird.

I'm weird.

That's cool.

Yeah.

All right.

So that was coming up.

That's and then you've got more records coming out.

It's that Am I the first person to leak that info 100%?

Fuck, yeah.

Well, we've, we've said that we have records coming out.

You're the first person that I sent the record to.

So no one's no one's heard it.

And I just act like it's not done when anyone asks me.

So we have more.

Well, you don't have a team.

Yeah.

We have more, we have another record being recorded in June, 1, in September.

Then we do an annual show that's really sick on Samhain November 1st.

We do one at home and it's a real theatrical ordeal, which we we did one last year.

We made a Blu-ray of it and so that's on YouTube for free too.

But just make like these collector items and stuff and do big show every annual year for the people at home.

Do the show that you want to do that you can't afford to do on tour.

You know, you spend 30 GS on a show, you do it once.

You can't really take it on the road because there's too many moving parts.

You got 10 people working on it.

Too many fake guns.

I imagine.

Is that still still going on?

Still got real guns on stage?

Were they real?

You're going to have to.

You're going to.

Come to the show and find out, man.

I mean, I'm coming.

So in about an hour, so I hope I'm going, I think I might have guns.

On stage, we're in.

Nashville no.

Guns on stage?

No.

We're not doing.

Is that gone?

That's gone.

Evolved.

Evolved.

It was a talk of the town back in the day, though.

I was so excited.

I thought we were rocking and.

Rolling, but apparently we were just getting banned from flags from Live Nation venues.

I mean it.

Was it looked so fucking sick I thought I was sick too.

Yeah, so sick.

It didn't hurt gun guy.

You got a gun?

Oh yeah, guns.

We haven't got enough time.

I'm like time.

Well, if you ever want.

To come to Michigan, we got hundreds of guns, no water.

No, water is still.

Fucked you Drink.

God, we could talk about this all day.

Yeah.

Water still fucked, we can.

Maybe talk about that next time we just eat gunpowder and blood.

Nice.

You want to leave it there?

That's a.

Great fucking ender.

I'm in a bit of a funk at the moment and I came back from the gym and I was just fucking.

I'm in a great mood.

You're a great guy.

It's been a great day.

Thanks man, and I'm looking forward to seeing you rock the shit.

Thanks for having me.

In like an hour.

Thanks for.

Coming.

We got to do it again 100%.

But yeah.