And we talked about it last night.

You know, like if someone triggers you, if they say something, well that was great.

Like now I try and like if someone says something and it pisses me off, I'm like a good way of doing it with someone close is to say thank you, because it's obviously something you need to work on within you.

So you go and go, why, why, why that?

That's an opportunity.

And they said, this is my evolution of where I'm getting to now.

That was Deborah Lee Finesse and you are listening to the Regenerative Journey.

Good day.

I'm your host, Charlie Arnett, an eighth generational Australian regenerative farmer.

And in this podcast series, I'll be diving deep and exploring my guests unique perspectives on the world so you can apply their experience and knowledge to cultivate your own transition to a more regenerative way of life.

Welcome to the Regenerative Journey with your host, Charlie Arnet.

Okay, welcome to the Regenerative Journey, and welcome to this episode with Deborah Lee.

Finesse.

Angelica, my wife, has been very, very good friends with, um, Deb for many, many years.

And we caught up with her in her house in the Hamptons in July last year.

Um, and it was wonderful to sit with her.

She's an absolute dynamo, as you probably know, and to sit with her in relative calm and, um, for her to, to, to give me a few hours of her time and, um, uh, and be so open and graceful and honest.

Um, and, and just a wonderful, wonderful person to sit down with.

She's, she's very entertaining.

I can't remember how many times we got off track.

Um, uh, whi, which made it very interesting.

But we got there.

Um, she's wonderful and I, I just can't, uh, tell you, um, Deb, how much I enjoyed our, our chat.

Now, stay with you there for a couple of days.

It was a wonderful, um, kind of getting towards the end of our holiday, uh, a month away.

It was a bit of a holiday, bit of working holiday, but it was lovely to sit there and kayak out on the, um, out in the water there and just chill for a few days with you and your, your and your lovely hospitality.

Um, and everyone to you, our wonderful listeners, I hope you enjoyed this fantastic interview, uh, with Deborah Lee, finesse on the regenerative journey.

Debra Lee, Kimberly Finesse, welcome to the Regenerative Journey.

Welcome to, I'm regenerating as we speak.

I know this is perfect timing.

We had such a good yarn last night too.

Oh, I got, I got a piece, this bill and welcome to your lovely outside.

Do you call this, you know, in Australia we might call it a pretty smart patio.

What do you call it?

I've got my sanctuary.

It's, that was, it's just a general sanctuary.

Those gates are, I mean, I live in New York City, which is, and so when I, you, you need this.

Uh, opposite as a contrast.

So when those gates open here, and I just look at this, as soon as the gates close, I'm transported to another world.

And is this your And, and, and I, I can't agree with you more.

'cause when we, we turned up here yesterday, late in the afternoon, and we were like going, oh, do we get out and said the, what's the code?

We call?

And then the door just went.

There we go.

Magic.

And we went, you appeared.

We had a little mosey around and we, having been on the road for two and a half weeks just fell apart a bit because it was just like, it was, it was immediately, it was like song.

True.

That's what I wanted to create.

I wanted, I love beauty.

I mean, that's my thing.

I love to create.

I think it's my passion.

It lights me up to create space and I like to create space where people feel really welcome and really good in the space with just a little splash of magic.

Well, you're bloody good at it.

Take you down.

Um, because we had a lovely little impromptu dinin last night and chat, which was lovely because we haven't seen you for a while.

We had leftovers.

But they were good.

But you know what?

And little was like laughing this morning going, oh, and that was leftovers.

We just said, we, we, we were gonna go out.

And then we're like, no, we don't wanna go out.

And I was like, let's look, go the fridge and get creative here.

Whack it all up.

Make it look pretty on the table.

Off we go.

I dunno, I dunno who made that bread and butter pudding.

But it was, it wasn't me.

It was gross.

So good.

She was Australian.

Yes.

That's what was still is.

She still is.

But she wasn't here.

She wasn't here.

Um, tell me, so is this your first, um, sort of project, was this your first project, um, designing, informing, creation in terms of a, you know, like a residence and a, a little slice of the world?

Uh, it doesn't matter if I'm in a box wherever I go, even when I was on the road as an actress, I would create a space and that's fresh flowers or this, or I put a splash of that.

I've always done that.

All my friends in Australia lap.

'cause when I was um, a teenager, I used to have this book, the Dream book.

I knew one day I was gonna, it was my passion.

I wanted, and I think home is important to me.

And I knew I was gonna build a dream home.

So I had this book and I just cut things outta magazines or either a atmosphere or a table or a, whatever it was.

And I put it in the book and everyone gave me shit about it and was like, yeah, yeah, Deb.

And I said, one day I'm gonna do this.

They're like, yeah, yeah.

So when I actually put this on Instagram, when I finished this place, all my friends in Australia said, oh my God, the book, it came to life.

But this, and I am a bit of a manifester.

I believe in the law of attraction.

I believe in manifesting.

And I dreamed this place.

I, I sweated every beat.

I could see it.

I had a vision.

I I that I, some people have different gifts, but I can just spatially see things.

I mean, u usually you, you move into a place and then you choose the art.

I had all my travels.

I remember I was like, I remember in Italy and I remember in Japan that that'll go perfect there.

And I put the art in.

I knew the art before I even.

We built the place, but so yeah, we bought this place to start from scratch, which it's actually much harder.

It's like every artist knows that it's so hard to stare at a blank canvas.

It takes courage.

But there was nothing here at all.

There was a house we pulled down.

Yeah, yeah.

But it takes courage.

I'd know you read, have you read the book?

And I highly recommend it.

The War of Art.

No, it's, and I, I recommend this to anyone who's an artist as opposed to the Art of war.

You got it.

Oh, I did see it.

I saw that in the book the other day.

And it's the fight we go through within ourselves.

It's the courage it takes to, because when we make art, we, we we're, it's an expression of ourselves.

So it takes courage to put an expression of yourself in the world.

And, and I've heard Rick Rubins is an artist.

I hear him on Instagram.

He always says, the only person you've gotta please with your art, don't do it for someone else.

That's when you get in trouble.

Or you're doing it for, you gotta producer or something.

And they're branding you.

You have to, that's when you get lost.

That's when you lose your.

And what people love about your work.

So the person you've gotta please is yourself.

And that's a great message in life because if you please yourself, like if I like something that is gonna, that's better for everyone else because I'm giving them authenticity and that allows them to be authentic.

Anyway, that was sort of, I love it.

A long way of going about it.

But anyway, so we bought this place and then the place next door came up for, uh, to be sold next door as in, as in somewhere the guest house where you're staying.

There used to be a fence somewhere.

Yeah.

So you're in the guest house.

So we bought that and it was really interesting project because one house we had where we kept the, the, the structure, so you had boundaries and I, I used equate all this in architecture and design to life.

Yes.

Oh, that was there.

That was there.

That, that, that was an old sixties artist house.

Right.

And so that had boundaries already.

So I had to work within the confines of the structure.

Was that, was there.

And that was really fun.

Like I didn't realize how much fun that was gonna be because I couldn't just have an open slather.

This was much more challenging because this was a blank canvas, but a bigger job required more, uh, artistry required more, you know, thinking out all the dots that had the boundaries.

But you still have to be creative and smart within being within the boundaries.

Different creativity because you, yeah, you have boundaries with, so you, some might say compromise, but another way look at it is, well, it's just, it's just, it gives you opportunity to do, to create within that, it's like a budget.

You got this budget, it makes you more creative.

And that word, what was that word?

Compromise.

I hate them.

Yeah.

No, I'm not a big fan.

I don't like that word.

I'm a big fan of win-win plus.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

So one plus one equals five.

Yes, exactly.

So tell me while we're on this, and just so you know, my interviews never go where supposed to go.

I love that they just go, we're just off.

I dunno where it's like, I mean, what's the thing, what does God say?

You, you make a plan and God laughs.

Exactly.

Right.

So I'm, I'm all over.

But we dunno where it's gonna go.

Who knows where?

No, only because you're, you could end up at quantum physics, who knows?

Quantum dentist dentistry.

We could end up, I may fall asleep if we go there, but just carry on.

I need some quantum dentistry, I think to fix up me.

But tell me That's, that's great.

So that's, I love that, that there's you, like you literally had the two opportunities for blank canvas and, and, um, and boundaries.

I guess that that's, that's exactly right.

Have you read my script already?

I'm just, I'm a good Intuit.

There's exactly right.

There's like life, sometimes you get the opportunity to, um, do whatever the hell you want.

Yeah.

Because it's all there.

The resources or the space or.

Or the, the time, whatever the, yeah, whatever the variables are.

And then sometimes you've just gotta work.

It feels like a lot more, maybe.

Is it more that more of the time in life?

It, it's about, um, boundaries and adaption.

Like, is that, is that a thing?

I mean, how do you It just requires creativity.

Every day requires creativity.

How we feel our day requires creativity.

And that is my, my lifeblood is creativity.

I mean, everyone laughs at me.

I mean, I, I set the table and I can have, I, it's a party for me.

I just lay the table.

'cause it's creativity.

I mean, I paint and I design and I act and I wanna direct and I have direct, but I want them to do more directing.

Um, I love creativity and I think that is the essence of all of us.

I think there's an artist in all of us and a lot of people say, oh, I'm not an artist.

And they don't think of themselves that way.

But I think that's, that's.

Part of our is we're meant to be creative.

Is that not, that's probably part of being, having purpose, isn't it?

Like, I mean, absolutely.

Your soul's purpose.

Okay, what are we, what are we here for?

Okay, we there already.

What are we here for?

Let's go down that track.

It's, it's your soul's purpose.

We have to work out, you have to be creative, all of us, to work out what our soul's purpose is.

And then we've gotta have the courage and the balls to want to fulfill that and do what we're sent in For some people don't, uh, fear stops us.

What else stops us from pursuing what we should be doing?

Fear.

Fear of failure.

Yeah.

Always, always.

Fear, I think.

And that circumstance, I mean, you know, circumstance is, you know, gosh, every day there's something thrown in our way.

I mean.

Look at people in the Ukraine, Gaza, I mean circumstances, is that a part of their soul per, are they gonna grow from that pain?

I mean, we all grow from pain and some of us have a much bigger T trauma than the little T trauma.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, circumstance can't get in our way.

But, you know, well, and what other people think is often the fear.

A lot of people Yeah.

We all have fear of well that's judgment.

Everyone's scared of, what is it?

That's what I started with.

You can't make art to think, oh, they like that.

You gotta make art for, do I like that?

Yeah.

Because that's all I got and fuck yeah.

Everyone else has taken, I just got me.

Yeah.

So, and, and you've gotta put that up as an offering.

This is me, this is what I have to offer.

And if people like it, that's a bonus.

Um, well, I just love it.

It's so I thought you'd, you, I had, I just thought you'd built that too, because it's, it's got, it's, it feels like you Well, it's very dif Oh no.

It's very different.

It's very different.

If you'd seen the, I'll show you the before and afters.

Yeah.

Massive difference.

It's very different to everything else.

We haven't put Little thank you for the paddleboard this morning.

There was So I've never paddleboard before.

What?

No.

And you're Australian.

Yeah, I know.

Outrageous.

Out rude.

How rude.

I had to wait to get here to do it, but I'm so glad because it's so still like glass.

Yeah.

But we're facing the bay.

It's just still like, I can just sit there at night, you know, and I'm like, I've always gonna be entertained.

I can just sit here and just look out at that and go, wow.

And there's almost going on out there, but there's a, it's a few yachts.

Yeah.

The odd, odd bird.

The shag jumping outta the water.

Yeah.

Um, little got up, Lordie got up.

I got up.

It was fantastic.

And, um, we had, we went up and down a little, a little bit, but the, your, as we were saying last night, your house is, was quite different to anything else.

And, and beautiful, I have to say.

And there wasn't, you know Angelica better than I, I do.

We go way back.

She can't help herself but go, oh, so why they didn't do that?

But we all have judgment.

I was doing that too.

That's it.

We all have our own thing and we gotta own it.

And that's okay.

I know.

I look at that, I go, what my interesting choice.

I wouldn't do it, but hey, and I think, I think also, I mean, it is different to everything else, but I think you can't take the, your culture out of you either.

Like someone, I did that house and since feels very Australian, so, and I didn't plan to be Australian.

I mean, I took influencers from Japan and Morocco, whatever, but that's in my, my soul.

But this is kind of a bit timeless too.

It's not, it's not gonna like, oh, that's an old style and that's kind of gone like this.

It's very.

Universally, and it blends in with the environment.

It's not obnoxiously out of No.

You know, it really, I, I created the place with all the glass and the windows to invite the environment in.

I utilize the environment Totally.

Which we Aussies are quite good, aren't Yeah.

Apparently we gotta be.

Well, you know, we're out there.

Our environment is bigger than us generally.

Yeah.

Hey, um, talking about environments I wanna talk to you about, ask you tell me about the first environment as in day one, Deborah Lee appeared in.

Where, where, where did, where did you appear on the world?

In the world?

Day one.

Day one.

Sydney.

Sydney, Annandale.

Really?

Yeah.

Born in Sydney.

I always, I mean, I know you spent a lot of time in Melbourne, so I guess I, I know I grew up in Melbourne, but I was born in Sydney.

Yeah.

Annandale.

Yeah.

And, uh, and what happened?

I don't remember you at home.

You at a hospital, a hospital.

Don't really remember.

Annandale didn't have a hospital.

Yeah, it did.

You did?

Yes.

No way.

Yes I did.

Well, I was born there.

Mom told me it was a hospital, um, born in Sydney.

But, um, earliest memory is that I grew up, um, in, we, we moved to Melbourne.

Um, uh, I was the mother.

I mean, I was the daughter of a single mother.

And, um, due to fact she had to work.

I, I sort of, when I was very young, I was at boarding school in Dalesford, um, in Victoria Countryside, which is now the day it's now an, an art gallery.

And it was this convent.

And I remember when I was little, there was this huge, massive convent with all the nuns.

And then when I revisited, like in my thirties and I, and I, and I sort of went, it's really small.

It was this small place.

And I remember walking up a staircase.

And I in the art gallery and I went, oh my God, that was the infirmary.

And I remember I had measles and mumps.

In those days you'd recover from measles and mumps without trauma.

Um, and so it was really kind of wild going back there.

But yes, I was, I was, uh, out of necessity.

I had to be in boys school as a young girl, so I found my independence young.

When you say young, are you, were bloody young.

Yeah.

Five.

Five.

Yeah.

I dunno.

I know a got and in those days it wasn't too unusual.

Yeah.

You know, I had a mother who had to provide and she had to go to work and, and Mom Faye was like, she was somehow like gorgeous mom, some hours away.

Like dallas's, not like an hour.

An hour.

Okay.

So that's still far enough.

Oh, she would always, always come and visit and, yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

And was that, what, can you remember how that was for you?

Apart from I didn't wanna be there.

I don't know, many five year olds don't wanna be away, but, um, it was, uh, again, out of necessity, out of circumstance that was, you know, and I think it gave me, you know, all the things that we see as the negatives in our life actually give us our, our strengths.

You know, I had to learn how to be independent.

I had to learn to advocate for myself.

Um, so at a young age.

So there's negatives and positives with every experience that you take on, which, which you choose to utilize.

And I hate wasting anything, time, resources.

So I am not gonna waste my pain or my, my, anything that was negative in my, in my life and not turn it into a positive.

What, what happened, not what happened.

How was your experience, how did your experience there?

And you were there from five till when?

What age?

Couple of years?

Yeah, couple of years.

And what, can you remember what you took away from that?

Like what, what, what positives, what were, how to escape?

Well, literally I think I, I remember plotting with one of the other young girls, like, right, we can pinch some, uh, tins of baked beans.

I forgot to think about the thing you opened the bake beans with.

But we had them stacked under our bed ready to make our escape into the woods.

And we thought that was, so that was where my adventurer was born.

I think we never quite made it out, out the convent, but we planned it.

So I was creative from a young age.

Anything else that you sort of learned, obviously, well, not obviously, I think you might have mentioned there before, um, uh, well, adventure, but you said, um, not, didn't they survive understanding?

Understanding, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I had to be very understanding as a young child that this was necessary for my mother and I to survive.

So I had to be understanding.

And so I learned that young, and I've sort of carried that through.

And I need to chill out a bit on the, I'm learning now that I have to be understanding for Deb.

So when you say, yeah, so back then, prioritize yourself.

Yeah.

So you were like, so understanding as in accepting or acceptance and, and I guess there's, there's trust as well.

Like they tell you something, whether it's you know, mom or teachers or whatever, whoever in life.

And you go, oh, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll trust.

Yeah, trust her.

But you said something interesting last night about trust.

Yeah.

It's like, I think because I was such a young child, I had to trust because I didn't have a backup plan.

So I may have easily given away trust.

'cause I always think of myself as a trusted, very trusting.

And my friends give me slack about, oh, de you trust when you think the best of everyone and da da.

Um, and, but I have a little bit of a control freak in me, which.

Which opposes that trust.

Like if you're controlling something you don't trust, but I think that's just, um, little bit like my way's, the best way.

That's why I try and organize it.

I'm a director and I love to organize and I suppose, and I just like that as we all do, you want it to go the way you think it'll work best and you always think you always the best way.

So yeah, the controlling and the trusting is sort of, it's nuanced.

Yeah.

And I guess everyone does have, um, I'm not saying no, not trust issues or, but it is, everyone finds their own, but we shouldn't trust you easily.

We should, you know, we should, you know, we need discernment, question, discernment.

And you, and you know who I what I'm really now trusting, which I don't think I always did.

Your gut and your intuition.

It's your, and I read this the other day somewhere, that it's when you have a feeling or a gut feeling about something.

It's your soul whispering to your heart to pay attention.

Because usually I've found that usually I'm right when I don't listen to my gut.

Are there times that you can tell us about that, where you can refer back to whether it's a, maybe it's a, a, a film you did or didn't do that you, you might have had a gut feeling and you went, maybe your brain took over, you know, like, oh, that's, that, that's often, that's ego.

Brain mind, mind is very powerful.

Gut, mind, ego.

No.

'cause it's like you learn, I, I, I believe you because you did it or you didn't do it.

That's how it was meant to be.

So there is, you know, that's what happens.

So you are getting a lesson out of it.

Whether you didn't do it or you did do it, there's still a lesson in everything.

And they say, and it's like people, you know, people come, I don't believe in this accidents.

Like, you just, oh, it's so amazing.

I met that person.

No, it was, it's, it was meant to be and they would teach you something and you've got a good, um, what'd you say?

Radar?

Yeah.

I think I've got a good radar.

Sometimes it's been bit off, but yeah.

When I don't trust my gut, then it goes off.

Blew it.

Well, they say, they often say that, you know, the biggest regrets people have are the things they don't do.

Oh yeah.

That's what, as opposed to what they did do.

Jeff Bezos, Mr.

Amazon, I mean, he's the richest man in the world, and then he's obviously silly.

Um, he said, stress is really only when you don't do what you know you should do.

And I hate the word should, but what you, what is right for you to do stress is when you don't take the opportunities or you through fear or whatever that stress.

And that and that, and they're often the gut, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Gets back to that.

Yeah.

So schooling foundational experience.

Mm-hmm.

And then where did, do you go to another boarding school or you went just sort of into, you know, non-boarding prior school?

No, I live with a friend of my, just Monday to Friday while she worked, and I'd be home on weekends.

So I, the first four years of my life were unconventional, like the first therapist I ever went to, she said, tell me your childhood.

I said, I was pretty normal then I told him, my dear, he goes, that's not normal.

I went, oh, really?

What else do we know?

That's all I knew.

Um, so yeah.

But I always felt a bit different because I didn't have a father and, you know, we were an unconventional family, so I always felt different.

So I went into a business obviously where you feel different.

Yeah.

You're an actor and you're, is that a, is that a thing?

We did talk bit about, we, we did a lot of groundwork last night, didn't we?

Um, and Angie, this, this is not rum everyone, it's a very, it's a very dark wine.

Yeah.

Um, Angela's always said that actors and her being one, so she's, she's saying it with, you know, all due respect and with her own understanding.

Uh, often, I don't know.

Yeah.

That, that's, that's, that's a thing that they.

We have a healthy need for validation.

Can I put it that way?

Totally.

Um, by being someone else.

But any, any you look at, you look at actors, you look at artists, you look at musicians, anyone in the arts is using that form of expression and I suppose in other fields, but it seems more predominant in the arts.

I think we, it's a way of exercising our pain.

Everyone has pain and everyone finds a way of how to, how to work with that pain, work with it.

'cause it's gonna be there.

We all have it.

No one's getting out of this life without a little bit of pain.

No.

Well that's, so we have to know how to work with it and, and we all have varying degrees and I think a lot of people in the arts, like, uh, you know, we're applauding and that's, gal Mar speaks about this, you know, we're out there applauding people who, who are famous and doing things and a lot of time.

We're celebrating a dysfunction and it's sending a wrong message to the next generation.

We're feeding their, feeding the beast of ego or feeding the beast of, you know, the people out there that are, that need the validation so bad, but it's costing them themselves.

They're betraying their innate essence to be fed what they think they need.

So, and I just see a lot of people in the world who we are, we're, we're celebrating dysfunction.

I.

It's nuanced, but how do we get around that though?

I mean, as, as a, as a, as a viewer of movies and, you know, um, and appreciating art, because I guess often, of course, and I'm not saying no, no, not, but you, it's like congruence.

You can be an artist, but it's finding where that it's, it's the, it's the intention of why you're doing what you're doing, why you need to paint that painting, why you need to do that.

If that is your passion and you need to say something and it's working for you, yes.

But it's when we get off track and ego takes over and then you're at war with yourself because you're not doing it for you or you're not doing it, you're doing it for either money or the wrong reasons.

So it's, it's always coming back to ourselves, staying on soul's purpose as to everything we do.

We should really think about why am I doing this?

And a lot of times we're just mindless.

He just, oh yeah, I'm a plumber.

I'm just gonna go to work.

And maybe your soul's dying inside.

He doesn't wanna be a plumber, but he, he takes courage to step out of what we've.

Whatever box we put out, we box ourselves into these constructs that, uh, we get stuck in there.

And it takes a lot of courage to jump out of that box and that construct and think, is this what I want?

Am I in my bliss?

Am I lit up?

Am I turned on by life?

So for, say, actors who are, you know, validating themselves and as, as in your words, well, the, the but is validating themselves.

Yeah, we all are.

It's not just that.

I mean, I guess as farmers, like I, you know, I, I try and not be, I, I, I don't like to, I often say I'm not what I do, you know?

No, I, I don't want my farming to define me.

That's, it's hard not to be defined by that and you know, because it's just your bliss.

I do cows and sheep and that sort of thing, but it's, you're following your bliss.

That's what you're, you're attracted to.

That's what gives you joy, I'm assuming.

Oh, definitely.

But again, as long as I'm not doing it.

So that people keep thinking I'm a farmer.

You know what I mean?

That that's when you're not, and that's when you're outta light and that's when you have stress and that's when you get dis is So when you're at the top of the, of your game in acting, how, how does one is where, where are the opportunities for someone to turn that around?

Turn it around and top of the game?

Top of the game to me is when you're happy.

Okay.

If you're at the top of the game and you're miserable, that's not success.

Yeah.

And I've seen a lot of people who at the top of the game, and they're struggling more than not, they're struggling.

And again is that, and, and you, you know, it just makes sense.

Like the most successful people in the world, there's a, there's a drive.

What's driving you to have to have more, more, more, more.

And when do we know that that's enough?

And, and we have to honor our value system.

What's my values is not necessarily someone else's values and maybe someone else's values is be the richest person in the world or the best actor in the world, or the best for their need.

As long as I believe, as long as you're living within your own integrity, that's when you will, when you're successful.

Is that when maybe boundaries can be a good thing?

Boundaries.

We all struggle with boundaries.

Hey, I'm a parent.

Lemme tell you.

We struggle with boundaries and, and a lot of us are brought up in our culture to be people pleasers.

And it's very dangerous being a people pleaser because you, you betray your own needs and then you end up hurting other people because you're not, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

It builds resentment like this, it goes off, it's like a, you know, domino effect.

Um, so boundaries up, we feel some type, like the other day someone said, hi, Deb, you know, you wanna come to Greece?

I went, no.

I like, didn't, I didn't even say why.

I just, I didn't wanna go to Greece.

And, and that's a boundary, like I'm looking after myself now and like a lot of times like, you have to come up with an excuse.

I can't come with tea or, and you just don't feel like it.

Yeah.

And you, and you're doing a favor.

'cause if you do go to the place that someone's asking you to pleasing them, you resent them.

So you're doing.

Them a disservice too.

They don't wanna be resented.

So I'm very, I'm the Sagittarius, like your wife.

And we're, we're very honest.

And I, I, it saves a lot of time.

Tell me that.

But it's better in the long run.

You're did wrong.

And we talked about it last night, you know, like if someone triggers you, if they say something, well that was great.

Like, now I try and like if someone says something and it pisses me off, I'm like, a good way of doing it with someone close is to say thank you, because it's obviously something you need to work on within you.

So you go and go, why, why, why that, that's an opportunity.

And that's, this is my evolution of where I'm getting to now.

Like if something triggers me, it's not personal.

It's not about that person, an asshole or whatever.

It's something in you and it's the opportunity for you go and go.

Oh, okay.

And you look at it, dissect it.

Yeah.

So you, you clearly.

Very conscious of that.

I mean, you're, you strike me as a very conscientious of the person anyway.

Like you're, you're not dissimilar to, and, and apart from being Sagittarians where you've, you, you've done the work and it's not just recently you've been, you know, I get a sense that you've been doing the work, you've been taking the work as in your life and your own development seriously for a long time.

It's not something, I think that's why I became an actor.

I became an actor because I wanted to understand the human condition.

And, and, and, and I'm all about connection.

I love this.

I, that's why I, I'm a true extrovert.

Like that's where I get my, you know, there's introverts that they need the piece.

I need the people and conversation and that to, to light up.

So I became an actor, I think to, you know, I have to dissect.

When I read a script, I have to go, who is this person?

Well, why did they do that?

Why?

And it helps me understand people.

And that to me is really interesting.

Has there been a role you remember where you took the most away from in terms of understanding the human condition or understanding yourself that you went, oh my God, that was such a great character.

I really got into it and it really helped me navigate XZ.

Is there one that stands out?

Same Picking a child.

Anyway, it's, you know what I learned from even the duds, I will learn from the dud films.

Yeah.

So, no, I don't think there is one particular, there's one that I love doing more than, I mean, the film Shame, which I did.

30 years ago, which still they just recently showed in New York, which is about justice.

'cause I hate injustice.

And this is about a strong fe.

I love that.

It was a strong female, she was a great role model for young girls.

She rides into town on a motorbike rather than the usual guy on the horse and the western, it's a chicken on a motorbike, comes to town and seeks justice and, and everyone thinks, oh, you know, that was easy character.

It wasn't, she was very contained.

Andrew was very contained with, but it was a power.

And I had to find, because usually I'm, I'm out there.

Yeah.

And I'm more forthcoming and she was a contained energy, so I had to learn how to find a power within very little words on the page.

So that was a challenge to get across who this character was with without the words, just with, you know, and the film I directed, I wrote a short film and I, I, I, I, I wrote it and none of the characters had dialogue.

Because I thought that as a filmmaker, I need to tell this story.

Um, and what a challenge to tell the story without dialogue.

And I used music and every character had a fugue of, of, of music.

And uh, it was just the actors to tell the story and it gave it an extra edge and a different way of going about it.

So.

And as, as an actor, the words aren't just the icing.

You should be able to turn the sound down and watch 'em know exactly like we do as people.

Like, you know, I meet you, I've already within minutes of being you person, the body language of this or that.

I've summed it up before you've even opened your mouth.

And we all do that.

Don't you agree?

You meet someone and you get a vibe straight off.

And I think the chicks are, I mean, look, it's a bit of, a bit of a, um, cliche.

The chicks tend to be better that than, than the boys I what they call women's intuition.

Yeah.

I think we were given that gift.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think it's a, I dunno what that is and I don't wanna be sexist, but the guys are black and white challenged in some areas.

Totally.

No, she did.

No, no.

I, I'm, I I'm one of them.

I, I, I, you know, I, if you have other stuff, I suppose you good at, I dunno, I'm not a guy.

I, what I, you know.

Build shit every now and again.

So can I.

Oh, okay.

Um, I can, Carper was one of my passions when I was in my twenties.

I had a tool belt used to walk around my apartment tool belt.

But my first thing I built was a, a recycle bin, the slats.

I lived with two guys and they laughed at me and thought I was ridiculous.

And I, you know, I did this whole thing.

Then we had a big party.

The talk of the party was my bin because I had s surprised.

Shut up boys.

I can do, excuse me, excuse me.

I can do this shit.

You gave me shit.

And look at that.

Um, look, it's not a competition.

See, I'm very competitive, PDA and tennis.

I love competition.

I know.

Will it?

I've got that.

I had it since I was a kid.

I love sports.

I love, I love, I love competition.

'cause it, you know why I love competition?

'cause it pushes you to be better.

Hey, uh, let's get back to.

I know boring old school, but I, I always find, I always find it's such a formative time in people's lives.

And did you do subjects in school?

Did you get do electives or whatever they're called that sort of were heading you towards a particular vocation in that school?

Straight.

You just did you reading, writing with metic?

There was no electives, but I knew what I was good at.

What was that?

And I was not, I was geography.

Forget about it.

Estuaries lakes, lagoons rivers.

I never got bodies of water.

I know.

My swimming pool.

I'm not good on the bodies of water.

Not good with the peninsulas.

No, don't get it.

Don't get anybody.

Not yours.

Um, so geography I was really bad at Numbers to this day is just like Russian.

It's like I'm not good with math.

Um, that's okay.

So maybe it's a Sagittarian thing.

Well, my, yeah, it's just like, ah, nah.

Yeah.

Details.

Um, I'm very much, I'm not a detail.

I'm, I'm big vision and I wanna play with the big strokes.

Um.

History I loved, yeah.

Um, art of course I loved and English, but I'd say I was, you know, the arts and like, and I was Slack at school because I was too busy, you know, doing the past clown down the bag I was having.

Yeah.

And I was sort of not like, I remember stand literally for an English exam, standing as we were walking in to do the exam.

And I just said what was possible overall thing, place, and literally got the overall thing and then just wrote.

But no, I could wing productions in English.

Put me in the math.

I just put my name on the paper and walked out.

It's, you actually mark it for the guy who had D?

Yeah, I just put my name on the paper and said CI walked outta the class.

Um, so was school, was secondary school happy?

Was it fun?

Was it Melbourne?

Melbourne?

Okay.

I gotta tell you, I'm one of those kids and it's, that's challenging.

I went to, I'd say.

Schools.

So I think that's probably what my social skills are good, because I was always the new kid.

I was always the new kid in school.

So, and that's hard when you're young and you're just sort of developing who you are.

Yeah.

Um, that was through necessity.

Everyone felt.

My mother was a diplomat, but I think she just liked to decorate.

So we always like, like, like myself, we do a new apartment.

Yeah.

Moving around.

Yeah.

So that school's close now, so you'll go to that one.

Yeah.

So that was a po was that a positive experience?

I mean, you, you, your people skills are, to me it wasn't, I was always, I'd make new friends, had to, I was a new kid in school.

I had to make new friends.

So again, I'm good at turning the negatives into positives, what I take out of it.

Did you have any tactics on how to make friends?

Can you remember?

Like, did you make them laugh?

Make them laugh?

I think that's, I was chubby, so Yeah.

I had to be funny.

I got my humorous skills.

Yeah, it'll work.

Yeah.

Um, so finished school, uh, making friends and passed.

We passed anything more than like 1%, like 51%.

No, no, I did well feedback.

Yeah.

Good.

Um, I'd You got the ass in, in English?

Yeah.

No, but my mom's, I went to Methodist Ladies College and my, and I had de set a detention every week.

But you know what I was for, 'cause like my hat wasn't on right or my socks were down and you get a set, a detention and I was always sort of in trouble 'cause I talk too much in class, nothing serious.

Um, and I remember like maybe 10 years ago, MLC asked me to come back and be the speaker for the girls.

And my mother said, if you don't do anything else, please do.

It was her greatest moment that MLC asked me back because I was always in trouble.

And she was like, oh, finally I was a good kid.

You've been redeemed?

Yeah, I've been redeemed.

Did you, what message did you have for them?

Because they're often quite, you know, I didn't do it.

You didn't do it?

No, it was only because of necessity.

I was in America at the time.

Oh.

I couldn't, couldn't do it.

But just the fact I was asked.

Yeah, that was, that was, that was good.

If you, uh, if you had, were gonna tell 'em something, what would you have said?

Okay.

Good question.

Good question on all of them.

Um, sometimes I would say follow your bliss.

Be authentic.

Tell the truth to yourself and others.

Be honest and don't should, and don't do what you think you should do.

Like all your parents, you know, a lot of these kids are doing what their doctors want their kids to be doctors or whatever.

And if you go against what's in your heart, it backfires and you'll end up unhappy, sad.

Then you can get sick.

That's often for an 18-year-old girl and oh, I.

If I heard that.

Well, no.

Like I can't remember anything that anyone ever told me that was of, of value, which would've been a value.

I'm sure I heard lots of it, but at 18, well you think you just go partying and that's it.

Well, yeah, maybe like, maybe you need to do that to realize that that's just got nothing for you.

Get outta your system.

Yeah.

So it's, you know, maybe that's it.

Um, no, but that's why I love, I do love the American system of college because you get, you have to do, like in America, I mean in Australia you go straight.

If you're gonna be a doctor, you go straight to med school.

In a, in America you do four years of college and it gives you the ch of just general college.

So it gives you the chance to go to the science department, to the woodwork department, to the design department.

And it gives you an opportunity as an independent away from your parents again to find yourself, you know?

And, and it's not all about the curriculum of, of Yeah.

You're trying every, it's like you're trying it out.

It's a buffet.

And I know people that have gone to college thinking they're gonna do psychology and they end up in the engineering department go, oh wow.

Is that that?

So anyone goes to uni over here.

University.

They call university.

Yeah, college.

College.

That's what, that's what they go to do.

I mean, no, you do four years of, you've gotta do a general.

General.

And there's what you say, you pick electives.

I wanna try engineering, I wanna try biochem.

And you can mix a lot.

I went to 3D printing.

So you could do an array of different things.

Yeah.

Without going, I'm gonna do engineering.

And you don't have electives at 18.

I dunno what kid, you know, you might think that's what you're gonna do.

'cause your parents, you're stuck in med school for the next nine years and then you wake up one day and go, I should have been a dancer.

Dancer.

So 18.

Did you go to college?

Uni.

Uni?

Did you do a I came to New York at 18.

No, at 18 I did whatever Aussie does.

Don't.

Skip a year.

I backpacked around Europe.

Good on you.

I did the whole Europe thing, did all that.

And my, and I said I wanted to be an actress, and my mother said, if you wanna be an actress, you've gotta do something as a backup plan because it's not exactly the most stable industry.

So she made me do a secretarial course, and I was, I did the secretarial course and I got a job out of that at Channel nine News, um, for the director.

I was the secretary to the director of news.

And let, let's just say we all have different skill sets that wasn't mine.

And I, we did shorthand in those days to take a letter.

And I, I do that for him.

And he say, and, and I, I was like, hang on, hang on.

And I sure.

And then in the end, he'd just say, Deb, don't worry.

I'll ring the, I'll call the, and I was terrible at it, but he really liked me.

So I worked in the newsroom for a bit, was, hang on, made everyone laugh.

Was this before the backpacking?

After?

Uh, so hang on.

So the, the backpack in Europe.

Fun.

Yeah.

Footloose, oh, hang on.

Was said before or after?

I can't remember.

No, I think I would already, I went to Europe as my first year, then came back to the secretary, then did that.

Yeah.

Anyway.

And then from that, uh, I got asked to be in a women's current affair program as a researcher, and I was gonna go into journalism.

And, you know, interview people.

I started doing that.

No.

Then I went to Europe, then I did my year.

Okay.

It was after that because I went, I don't know.

And that's when I did.

And then I went off to Europe and that's when I realized, no, I wanna be an actress.

What about, and then I, I, I went to New York and I, uh, auditioned at different schools and I was accepted to Numerical Academy of Dramatic Arts.

Wow.

And I came back, worked as a dobe in night in few nightclub.

Except I was terrible at that too, because I just let everyone in because I felt sorry for You forgot to like, yeah.

There was no discernment.

Like coming.

Coming.

You're welcome.

I was a terrible door.

You be like, you drunk.

No.

Well get away.

Just come back when you're drunk.

What about, um, so what was it about traveling in Europe that got you like thinking I wanna be an actor?

I was always gonna be an actor.

I only remember I did the search tour course as a backup, but then I thought, okay, if you're serious about this.

Do.

So you have to take action if that's what you wanna do.

And I think, you know, traveling around Europe and you, I'm, you know, open to cultures and many people and all that.

And I went, that's when I got serious and I went back to Australia, worked for three jobs as a door bitch, saved up the money and went back.

And I think I was early twenties and I went to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and that's when I fell in love with New York.

I remember calling home to my mother saying, oh my gosh, mom, I, I was misplaced at birth.

This is my tribe because New York, it was so a type personalities and it was noise and busy and, and I just fell in love with New York.

Can you just get back to New York?

Can you remember the nightclubs you used to work in inflation?

Was it me, was it Melbourne and underground inflation?

This is going shows my age inflation, the underground and the Bowie Hotel in Bow Morris.

Is it Bowie?

Bowie, hotel Bowie.

Um, so New York.

I had a crush in the security.

What happened to him?

No, I didn't.

What was his name?

Hi, Trevor.

What was his name?

Obviously it wasn't a deep, I can't remember his name.

Shane.

I think it was Shane.

Shane.

It had to be Shane.

Things could have been different.

Could have, yeah.

Could've been different.

Shane.

Uh, so New York and, and was it specifically in New York where you Oh, I could go to London and New York.

All my friends.

Okay.

All my friends who were studying, acting were in London.

Yeah.

And I had been to London and it's like people, you just, it's your flavor.

It's not, London was not my flavor.

Everyone was too polite.

That's what I loved about New York.

Everyone was like, just set it how it is.

Not unlike, I think it was similar to Australia.

New York is a very straightforward, very upfront.

London was too polite and too risky for me.

I'm like, what's the subtext?

Everyone says, what?

What?

What?

There is none.

I likes Jam Queen.

We had, uh, we went, we were in New York, went to Tea and Sympathy.

You used to go there on Greenwich.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So good.

So good.

So yummy.

Lovely.

S Who doesn't love a good scon?

I gotta make scones again.

I reckon they're a little bit harder side.

We, they call those biscuits here.

Scones called biscuits.

And they have it with the chili.

No, they're still a s scone.

They scone.

Oh, they're too hard.

God.

Yeah.

What's you?

Well, we can get back to regenerative farming.

You know, it's the flo, it's the soil, it's everything that goes in to make that I couldn't taste, but it's in the soil and all the ingredients.

It's not about me.

It's, but you stopped changing.

Okay.

So now tell me, um, how many years was, was that?

Um, three.

Three.

Loved it.

Every minute of it felt like I was in the middle of the world.

I was wild, outrageous.

I partied and made, I had actually my roommate and some friends here to the house a few weeks ago.

Yeah, cool.

Like that's a long friendship.

We're still know each other.

It was such a shared experience.

And you're young and you have dreams and you're in New York and, you know, it was scary 'cause I was, and people will be surprised to hear this, I was a little bit shy and I think I chose acting too because it scared me.

I like to do things that scare me.

'cause I don't wanna be scared.

So I like to, I think one of my big mojos in life is to overcome.

I put things in my path to.

Today, have you ever been curious about how to start a carbon project on your farm and what is involved with implementing a carbon project, or what is this crazy carbon sequestration stuff?

Anyway, we're hosting a field day here at Mino on the 10th of December, partnering with Atlas Carbon, with whom we have a carbon project.

And it'll start from 10 finish at three.

There'll be two hours in the morning of a bit of a Q and a with myself and Colefield from Atlas Carbon and Bark Davidson from Atlas Carbon.

In the afternoon, from one till three, there'll be a bit of a paddock tour.

The boys are gonna bring a sampling machine to actually pull a core, as they say.

Just check out what's happening with our soil.

You know, plenty of opportunity for q and a with Cole and Bart and myself.

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You'll be tea, coffee when you get there.

Lunch 12 to one, and some refreshments after three o'clock.

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So do you think that.

You were, what did you say?

Scared.

No, you were, um, scared, baby.

That's my beautiful puppy.

Little hound.

Um, whoops.

That's my pind.

Um, you just said, um, before that you were not scared.

What did you say?

Not you didn't say introvert because Not me.

Shy, shy, shy, shy, shy.

It's a part of me, you know, we're all not one flavor.

Yeah, totally.

But how, so was was again the acting, like, did, was that something you sensed and you went, this is gonna lemme overcome.

Yeah.

That shyness.

Yeah, and I wanted, and it, you know, and I'd always been the, I think I'd always been the class clown 'cause I was a new kid in school and then someone said one day, so I'm like, oh, you should do that.

And I went, you gonna pay me for this stuff was just like, okay, I give it a bill, I can do this.

Oh, I can do this.

How are you when someone's as gregarious as you, because I know people who are gregarious and they're always, but when someone is more, they kind of.

They back out.

What?

Well, you know, I, I, I know people who are really gregarious.

Yeah.

At a, you know, at a party anywhere.

And then when someone's even more gregarious, they kind of, what?

They can't handle it because they're not the most gregarious at party.

So they kind of, they, they're outta there.

They go for a, I can't imagine you doing that, but it's an interesting, no, it's an interesting character trait.

Gregarious.

I'm just, me.

I'm just, and I'm not, I, even though I say I'm competitive, but if another person is that, I'll go, oh, look at him.

Celebrate.

I, I, I don't, yeah, I don't.

It's like, that's interesting.

It's either interesting or it's not.

I'm either drawn to it or I'm not.

It's not a competition as far as who we are with that personality traits, you know, and we, we attracted to certain people.

So four years, three years.

Did you, were you, um, working at the same time?

Like, like, yes.

Can you?

No.

Yeah, it was, it was illegal.

Don't tell me.

But I, I was, I, I think, I think I was allowed to work a certain amount of hours a day because I was an international student.

Yes.

And I worked in a health club at the desk, and so No, no.

Oh, and I did, I did, you know, phone work, like, hi, this is de e I'm calling from the rope pole because I used to try it on my American accents as so I could do my homework as I was making two bucks an hour.

So I did like, you know, dumb jobs.

Um, and then So you couldn't, you weren't acting like, is it one of those things to do like community work or some stage stuff within that three years?

No, you, you weren't allowed.

Really?

Yeah.

You just had to get through the work.

Yeah.

What was the, what was the next year?

Did you come back?

Did you go, I'm gonna go straight out onto the stage.

No, actually I was, this is hilarious.

I, when we got outta school, you know, we had to, we, I got an agent like you at the end of school.

'cause you get it every year you, you people get eliminated.

And in the end, the third year was only about 30 of us and started a couple hundred.

So agents were invited to our end of year plays, and I got an agent anyway, so they rang me one day and said, don't worry, it's an audition.

I great, great, great, and blah, blah, blah, and you have to prepare a song.

And I said, excuse me.

And they said to prayer a song.

And I said, I don't see what, what do you mean a song like, Debra, you've just starting out.

You have to go for everything.

And I went, oh.

Oh, okay.

So I go to this audition, I was terrified.

My knees were banging together, that I had to sing for a music and, and I was only the ever thing.

I didn't expect to get the job I just was doing as an exercise.

And I chose this song that I could act, which is whatever Lola wants, Lola gets a little man, little Lola wants you.

And I was like flying across the stage on my knees and I just acted like this, you know, ballsy, sort of showgirl.

Anyway, I, I was terrified as I before I did it, I did it and I was like, thank you very much.

And I left and was like, thank God I did it.

I get a call that night.

You got the part?

And I'm like, hang on, hang on.

You're telling me I got the lead in a musical.

And I can't sing.

And I'm telling all my mates at school that I got the partner.

They're all like, Deb, that's awesome.

I'm like, is nobody listening?

I can't sing.

And it was like such a huge thing.

'cause I was the first person to get a job outta school.

And so I thought, I've gotta do this.

That's how I, like, I showed up first to rehearsal.

I thought, this is gonna be humiliating anyway.

Um, it ca when they came to me, they said, 'cause it was off Broadway.

And they said, we're really sorry, but your work papers aren't in place.

You can't get, we can't let you do the partner.

I went, what a bummer.

Bye.

And I was out of there.

I was thrilled.

But it was, it, everyone always laughed about it.

Like I got the lead in the musical.

Did you do any, any after that?

Was that, that was your first class?

No, no, no.

And then I, I, the musical got my work papers in order.

Yeah.

And I got a dinner theater in New Jersey, which was.

You know this how you break into, get into Screen Actors Guild and every day an ambulance would come because most of the people, the dinner theater, they were in their eighties and someone would fall over or something.

So you have to stop.

You have to stop your, someone would carried that.

Well, I got my screen actors guilt card.

So what was the next one?

What was the, the next?

So no, then, then I went for a holiday to Australia.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I thought, well, I'm down there.

'cause I was so trained that, you know, as an actor you just, you know, and I, when I was down there, rang all the agents, said, I'm double A and I do this.

And I just was very proactive.

'cause that's how we were taught and spoke.

Age, age what?

Right.

Roughly.

Huh?

Age what?

25 6.

Um, anyway, so I rang around and I, I just, I only went down there for a holiday and then I kept getting Jo, I mean, I got films after film, then I got three films at once and they're like, this is how conscientious I was.

They said, oh, well you, you've got two, but you can't do that 'cause that one's there.

I said, I can get a helicopter and that could take me there on that day.

And, and I was like, very, you do what you do to make it happen.

Gotta get it done.

Anyway, so I just kept getting jobs in Australia and I couldn't get back to New York 'cause I just kept working.

And then I got a plane and that was supposed to run three months and that ran nine months.

It was a huge hit.

Um, what was that one, uh, torch Song Trilogy?

Um, in Mel Vegas?

Yes.

In Mel Vegas.

Yeah.

And then what happened?

Oh, that's right.

When I did Shane, that was shot in Western Australia.

This is all, this is a long time ago.

Um, with shame.

I, it was, they took me to America, back to America to do all the promotion for it because it was gonna get an international release.

So I, I went back to America.

I remember coming as I went to school in New York.

Yeah.

It was my hometown and they didn't tell me.

And as I'm driving into Times Square, I'm like, yay, New York Times Square.

And I'm looking around, then I look up and there's this huge billboard of me and Leathers as the character in Times Square.

And I was like, oh my God.

Then mom said, take a picture.

And I said, I'm got a camera.

She said, buy one, you know, not every day you get a billboard in Times Square.

So I went back to America with that and ended up getting film offers in la.

So I lived in LA for, while I was doing movies in LA and in Australia and I was sort of bouncing between the two.

I think an she was in LA at around that time.

Yeah.

Which I can't remember exactly when I wasn't, I wasn't on the scene then.

It was pre Pre Charlie.

Pre Charlie.

She was a, it was bc bc bc.

It was BC for Charlie.

Um, and, and so how was that, that was, was, were you like, just, did you ever stop and go, oh my God, like one minute I'm, you know, finishing school and then the next your, your transpacific, you know, I loved it.

I loved the life of being an egg.

I loved being on the road and we had a house in LA and I, it was all the actors there.

It was like the gum leaf mafia.

My, my house was sort of like all the parties were there and there was a whole gang of us.

There was, Nicole was sleeping on the floor and, you know, we were all just.

Having fun and, you know, going for auditions and doing jobs and going between the two.

So it was exciting and yeah, I had a great time And then back.

So what was the next big step?

So you didn't do any, um, theater was not, no.

Oh, I did do theater.

Yes I did, I did Sky with Ed Harris.

Oh, cool.

In, yeah.

Uh, still dunno what the plays about anyway.

Uh, I don't think the playwright does either.

Oh.

Hope you're not watching guys.

Um, but what, was there a reason you just didn't And I did that, that was in, in Koreatown and that was the night of the big riots.

I remember we were on, we had to sleep in the theater for the Yeah.

The Korea in Koreatown.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And was there a reason why you didn't sort of do the, do the theater, pursue more theater work?

I much prefer a film, film theater.

It's like.

It's too monotonous for me.

It scares me.

It's like I, because I, I really battle with stage fright sometimes.

Like, it happened when I did theater.

I came when to on trilogy.

I forgot my lines one night, six months in, and it, this happens to actors and it just brain, and then it just, it's like trauma.

It's like P ts d and you go, oh, but theater was never, theater in the beginning was my thing.

I was never gonna do film.

And then I just loved film.

I loved the intimacy of film and that's when I, my passion for I think wanting to be a filmmaker.

Because I always be on the set as the actor shot.

I do that and, and I love because it's exactly a canvas.

So that's, at the moment I'm working on a script, um, which is on third draft.

I had Rebecca Rigg, who is an Australian ex actress, a writer, um, who we wrote it, uh, you know, together, she wrote the screenplay I can with all the characters and, and now I'm editing that in order to direct that because I think that's what I really wanna be when I grow up.

What, amongst other things.

Yeah.

Um, what, um, can you tell us a bit bit about it?

Like Yeah.

Well, when, when I was like, well, I wanted to direct, I thought, okay, what do I wanna say?

And I wanna, I can't just do, it has to have a purpose.

Everything I do has to have a purpose.

And I thought, what do I wanna learn about?

What fascinates me, and I am fascinated with epigenetics.

I'm fascinated with intergenerational trauma in, it doesn't have to be trauma, just inheritance.

'cause I see people repeating patterns in their families.

Random things, repeat generation after generation.

Plus, I have two adopted children.

So, you know, at our, I always say at our table, it's more interesting because we haven't just, we haven't all got the same ancestors.

We've got different cultures in there, different ancestors.

There's a lot going on and I just think.

There's a book by Mark Lin, another good book.

It didn't start with you 'cause we think what, you know, like an example, why do I hate anchovies?

And you find out your great grandmother's an opera singer and she choked on anchovy.

It's like you're still, we're still carrying stuff.

And we, we, and some, and that's what in this lifetime, there are people who are the, the generational breakers.

Like, you know, generations after generation, maybe there's, uh, bad luck with finances, whatever.

And you can be the one that breaks the generational trauma if you do the work, if you come into this lifetime and do the works necessary to heal the wounds of your ancestors.

Can you tell us?

That's kind of out there, but No, I love it.

Lost your pillow.

Pillow, pillows.

It's, it fascinates me.

So tell me.

And I think, and, and I think now that used to be woo woo, but now I think people are really recogniz it's epic to science epigenetics.

Totally.

And it's like, you know, they, they talk about the gene that you carry the gene for certain diseases, whatever, but really you're carrying the trauma and it's, it, you may not get whatever disease your great-grandfather had because you are not in an environment that, you know, opens that gene up, that it, it's not an environment to thrive or to open up express, that's the word I was looking for.

So, so, so do you know, tell me about, um, I guess the science behind, behind it.

Maybe not all the, you know, 'cause it is quite an involved kind of a, um, whether you call it a mechanism or concept of a, uh, three generations ago, a grandmother who.

Has a thing about ancho and do we know, do we even know I've got story?

Well, I, the other day, and I'm not gonna say I, I, it's hard 'cause I don't wanna share people's personal stories.

Something is as bizarre as, um, there's a family where the mother's sister is 10 years.

Apart from her, the daughter's sister's 10, their daughters are 10 years apart.

And now both the daughters have children that are 10 years apart.

That's pretty random.

I've heard of another woman who lost her leg in a, in a motorcycle accident and her mother did the same thing.

And you say, what, how, how?

That's like a physical ma thing.

Yeah.

But when you think of the law of and manifestation, I believe, and Louise Hay, who's no longer alive, she wrote the book, you can heal your own life.

She ties every disease into an emotional root cause.

You know, that represents, say it's the need that represents in, in emotional terms, taking the next step forward.

So it manifests in a very violent way or in a physical, in a physical manner.

So I've heard of too many instances, or people, another friend of mine, her great-grandmother got screwed in business.

Her grandma got screwed in business.

She got screwed in business.

They attract that because there's some something energetically that we inherit and we attract positive and negative circumstance.

And if you, you can be the generational breaker if you realize that, and you take steps to change that betrayal, you know, a line of betrayal within a family.

And the betrayal continues and we attract people who betray us and it, and it's because that it's, it's epigenetically in our.

Energetic field.

It's almost like what we know.

We are attracted to what we know, even though what we know isn't necessarily good for us.

Well, you, well, it happens.

You see, you know, people that are, are children of domestic violence and they end up marrying a guy that beats them up because that's familiar.

They know that, that it's recognizable.

So they feel in a bizarre, perverse way safe within that 'cause.

That's what they know.

That's normal.

How do you, how does one break that?

I mean, can you break it?

You do the work.

Yeah.

You do the work.

You recognize the pattern, you recognize what you are doing to per to, to perpetrate.

That still happening.

And it's, it takes courage to be a, a generational breaker.

It takes courage and it takes, and usually, you know, you're forced into it through trauma.

A trauma makes you wake up and that trauma is even created, I believe, by the universe to go, Hey, snap out of it.

As Cher would say, like, wake up, look at what's happening, a trauma.

Again, I always turn the negatives into play.

A trauma is the portal to make you see life differently.

We all, we, after we experience trauma, we, we are changed.

And you can either sing or you right, rise up.

We always have a choice, don't we?

Yes, we do have that choice, but we have to be brave enough to make that choice.

Maybe 'cause of people's woundings.

They, they can't make that choice because they haven't, you know, they're content.

It, it's so nuanced, again, as I say, but you get Yeah.

The construct.

So that was so the, so your, your, um, screenplay has, I hope that I that's, that's a theme.

Yeah.

And I want, I, the screenplay is because I wanna direct, I want that canvas to play on.

I love working with actors.

I love.

Uh, you know, the, all the aspects of filmmaking, the visual, it's like, you know, it's like decorating a house.

It's like creating an environment.

And then I, and I love, uh, relationships.

I love how people interact.

And I want to put something out there that is controversial, that is not your, you know, people still think this is wackadoodle, but if I can put it in a way and it, I want it to be both profound, like a black comedy is my favorite genre because you have to laugh.

We can't get too serious and some stuff is really serious.

But if we can find that opening of humor, and that's a way of us letting off steam too.

And we, and we, and I want people, my, the characters that I've created.

Are so diverse and I believe w everyone will see themselves in at least one of those characters.

Will you, um, have to do research like whether it's like almost scientific research to get the kind of the nuances?

What do you think your own loss experiences and enough for you to navigate how to really portray the, the whole concept of, of if I was really conscientious, yeah.

I would do all that work, but I reckon I can wing it.

I reckon that when I say wing it, I work from my eye.

The way I work is from my heart, what I feel, what I think.

But no, I am doing, I'm speaking to doctors and I'm speaking to experts in the field of epigenetics and I'm speaking to, uh, you know, people who work in the area of wellness, who, who do somatic healing and, and, and help people through their trauma so that they've seen firsthand through their work with the body.

What people are carrying.

We carry all this in our body.

No idea.

We have no idea.

Like, why is my neck like this?

And then you find out, you know, boyfriend left you at 17, you're still carrying the rejection.

You know, like, 'cause I'm a big, uh, a big advocate of kinesiology, which I think is amazing.

It's a way of reading the body.

The body doesn't lie.

And through you, you know what kinesiology is, muscle testing and asking questions of the body.

The body would take.

The truth is everything that we've got is here, but we're all outsourcing, thinking someone else knows better than us, the doctors or the thing.

And I think that we actually, if we stop and listen to ourselves, we do have all the answers.

I think it's fascinating not to be arrogant.

We do not say that about everyone.

No, no.

I, I totally agree.

You know, and so it's up to us to kind of tap into it and, and re and, and flex that muscle because I think, yeah.

Generations and centuries ago, you know, our ancestors and mankind generally.

It was a muscle.

We, we, we, we had to rely on a lot more.

Yeah.

Because we don't have, didn't have the technology.

Yeah.

Well the resources there were, this is not there.

Yeah.

And I mean, our life literally depended on it a lot of the time.

It's inner wisdom.

Yeah.

And so now that muscle is weak.

So we, we, we defer to others or technology or, or hope or whatever.

Well that muscle is weak too.

'cause we could just Yeah.

Instagram, what's he say?

Oh yeah, he's right.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And we're, we're still being influenced by that.

And that's, but, and I think it's hard to sit still.

Well you even said the other, it's hard to be alone and trust yourself and sit still.

'cause it's uncomfortable.

If you're really gonna be with yourself and sit with yourself, it's uncomfortable.

'cause it's not all of it's pretty.

No, no.

Distraction is a good way to not confront the things that one needs to.

I live in New York.

Talk about distraction.

You, you know, anyone.

But that's why I try and balance it with this.

Exactly.

And and that's what you said last night, like this is the antidote for for that.

Yeah.

And there's nothing wrong with distraction.

No, totally.

Totally.

If, if you love going the theater, if you, whatever you like, distraction when it's not being used, if it's really, truly bringing you joy is good.

If it's distraction, if you're running from something, maybe not so healthy.

I, um, just to segue to kind of genetics, epigenetics, um, I find it fascinating that our bodies have receptors for different chemicals.

Yeah.

There's many.

Um, one is, uh, oh, there's heaps.

Um, you know, mushroom or some psilocybin, you know, some of the mushroom active chemicals, um, and also marijuana.

I can't remember which ones in there, but our, we actually have receptors in our body that were designed.

I how long ago?

Ready for, to receive the chemical that was from a, from a, in this case, plants obviously and plant medicines in some cases.

Mm-hmm.

Where our, our, our bodies have those receptors ready to receive those chemicals in us right now.

Even though, so to provide information for us to grow Yeah.

To, well, yeah.

To, because that's all the future is, is me, is psychedelics.

That's exactly, this is the future.

That's, that's a big thing that therapists are gonna fade out.

Yeah.

This is what w we will Yeah.

From what I'm seeing in the world now, like they say, I mean, ayahuasca or something like this, or these medicinal medicines, medicines are like 10 years of therapy in one journey.

Yeah.

And it takes balls to go and do that.

I'd be a little scared to do ayahuasca.

Yeah.

I've spoken to people that's changed their lives.

Addicts who are no longer addicts.

I mean, it's there, there, there's so, so much out there in nature in your world that will give us the answers.

And that's the thing, our bodies have those receptors ready to take on the, the, the trip, the adventure, the wisdom, the wisdom, the journey, all those things.

We just gotta not, don't have to, we don't gotta do anything.

But it's just, you know, it just boggles the mind, mind least that, as you say, getting back to our body has the answers.

Like, we've got the equipment.

Yeah.

We've got all the tools within, within us to plug in, literally to things, whether they're chemicals from a plant or whether they're, you know, concepts or we're ready to do it.

It's just a matter of, you know, often I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say always because, you know, we, we, we respond much quicker, much more, uh, quicker to, to pain than pleasure, you know, like, so those challenges are the things.

That we often have to go through to have that, you know, deflection point or I can't remember the word you used there before.

You know, it was like a go on that different tangent to have the challenge make the choice, and then, you know, you either let that ruin you.

Yeah.

Or as you say.

And what you are very, very good at clearly is going, okay, what's, what's the good in this?

What's the, the lesson?

What's the lesson?

You know, what can I learn?

What can I, you know, teach others?

I mean, even, you know, your, your screenplay is is, I, I suspect is will be something.

It will happen, it will be something that people will learn from.

You know, that's, that's exposing them to that sort of a thing.

I think that is my purpose, I think.

How do people know about epigenetics?

I only do because of stuff that's I'm saying.

I think my timing's finally right, because it is now coming very much to the forefront.

We are talking about it.

Um, do you wanna explain epigenetics?

Just it's really hard in case we Yeah.

But epigenetics.

Okay.

Well, we all understand the gene.

Yeah.

Epigenetics is when it is expressed by an environment.

So it's a, it's a, it's a part of the gene.

Like, okay, use the thing alcoholism with alcohol.

They say, oh yeah, my father's an alcoholic, so therefore I have the gene.

I would contest that I would say your father had trauma.

He self-sooth using a substance.

And the epigenetics of that is that when you are put in a stressful situation as the, as the child of that, you are predisposed to that trauma.

And the same inclination to self sue.

Does that behavior.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's behavior.

So epigenetics is an ex, it, it's a gene that doesn't, might not necessarily be expressed unless in an environment to do so.

Yeah.

Great.

No, that's, that's one of the best definitions I've ever heard.

Thank you.

Because I've been nerd, but I'm a nerd.

But No, but I've been asking doctors and they explain epigenetic.

I've really, and it's been, I still, you know, really trying to get clarity on it and it, it's still, it is a new concept.

Yeah.

It's a new concept.

So I, I keep asking the question every time I speak to a doctor, that's their area.

I get them, talk to me, tell me, and every, and they all do nuanced differently.

Um, okay.

Then where did we get up to?

You were trans, trans-Atlantic.

Atlantic.

Are you, were, were you gonna, did you do much in Europe?

You doing much?

You were doing LA and Sydney.

Did you do much?

Um, I just partied in Europe.

Okay.

So you went across Atlantic for, for have fun Yeah.

Fun times.

Yeah.

London.

Did you, did you, did you go to London and put up with all those?

Well, okay, London was another Australia, so after LA and I went back to, I was going between jobs, then I went back and to Australia, um, and did a show and, and started getting a lot of work in Australia and met my husband.

Mm-hmm.

So that, so then that propelled he wanted to do on, on set on, yeah.

We were acting opposite each other.

It was a criminal drama and I was the, the therapist and he was the, the crim.

Um, anyway, so lost between the, um, so he wanted to do stage in London so that we were in London for a while there.

Um, and then had he been doing stage in Australia mainly, or, yeah.

Films stage, few, few films.

Anyway, so when we were thinking about life, I was pretty much, I was like, if we moved to the States and to borough, because his career was just a starting and I was more, I was, had been working for a long, I'd done a lot of films and I was more interested in having babies.

Um, but I, I sort of wanted, I wanted to be in New York, so we moved to New York, based ourselves in New York, and my kids have grown up in New York, so he was able to go to, um, London to do some play.

Like, sort of, it was not quite, we were there for a few years.

We were there for a few years.

Wasn't my speech.

Where?

In London?

In London.

Oh really?

Yeah.

This, oh, no, same thing.

Your feelings about that had changed too much.

Too much tea.

Too much.

Too much PIMS and Cucu.

I'm much worried New York.

Yeah.

Um, and then yeah, children.

So, um, so yeah, so.

We, um, struggled getting pregnant and that was a hard time that we went through with IVF and a lot of things like that.

And we were always gonna adopt anyway, I think.

So we just went, okay, let's do that.

So anyway, um, we ended up adopting our two beautiful children at the same time.

Was it, was there five year difference?

Five years apart, yeah.

And we, we, and we're, do you gotta understand, we lived on the road, we were like gypsies on the road from film sets to film sets.

And I did Derbin and ine and Hugh did X-Men in Vancouver.

And a, Ava actually was born when we were in London.

He was shooting Woody Allen film and we got the call that she was there.

We had 24 hours to go.

Okay.

And so we jumped in.

Okay.

As in yes or no?

Yes.

Wow.

'cause it, she came, which it was anyway, but you don't need to hear all that.

But we flew to Texas and picked her up and London.

My baby girl.

And how, how, because I know you've done a huge amount of work in the world of adoption.

Um, and obviously, well, obviously I, I, I would imagine informed by your own experience.

See, there you go.

Like you talk about, we know where we're gonna go.

Did I know that I was gonna do that?

Did I see myself as an advocate for, I only saw that because I saw what was happening in Australia and the injustice and of all these families that did wanna adopt.

And it was so hard, and it still is 13 years on.

I mean, we started an organization, we have adopt change, and, uh, you know, international adoption worldwide started shutting down because of, uh.

Uh, corruption within, within PO politics.

And anyway, started my journey of being educated on what it's like to advocate for change, which is really hard.

And here we are 13 years later and we still have 45,000 children in foster care in Australia.

Some kids, just so you know, the reality, some little kids, babies are put in hotel rooms with shift workers, and it's not their fault they're given that job.

They're not trained in trauma care.

They are just there and they change shifts.

This is children.

Th these are children and they're put in hotel rooms, preliminary to finding before they go into foster care or to a permanent home.

We're still fighting this battle 13 years on in Australia.

So anyway, so.

I just saw that injustice I didn't even adopt in Australia.

We were living in America anyway, but people would come to me and say, it's so hard.

And I said, yes, I know.

So I used my platform and said, what's going on?

And I it, I opened up a hornet's nest and realized, you know, and it was back, it harked back I think where adoption was, you know, stigmatized and shut down back to the days of the women in the fifties, sixties, seventies, who had children out of wedlock and were forced by state and church to relinquish.

And you had these, uh, women who were still traumatized by having relinquished their children.

And the children were traumatized 'cause they were put into homes and we created a whole systemic mess.

So, you know, we went into fight to get rid of the stigma, to make it easier to, to build a system.

But with politicians it's always, you know, they've gotta have an impetus to, to wanna do it.

So we've been trying to, you know, tell people this is what the reality is, is filled Sydney cricket ground with children who have no home.

It's terrible.

This is kids and we're Australia.

We're generous.

Well, we're a first, as a, as a, we're a first world country.

You know, we have resources.

We have the resources.

So tell me, is the, the circumstances for a mother to adopt their child out, has that changed a lot in the, in the last few?

You know, I'm saying as in a single 30, 40 years?

Yeah.

Single mom, like you were saying back then it was often because they had to, well then you have, right, then we had abortion, right?

So the, obviously the numbers dropped and young women who didn't wanna have their child didn't have to do that.

But through circumstance, there's so many circumstances why children in foster care, mental health, domestic violence, um, you know, and these are damaged, you know, people, these are children of people who have suffered and talk about intergenerational trauma.

I've seen, you know, in South America, every generation the kids ended up in, in, as, as an orphan.

And that was this one grandmother who said, it's stopping here.

It's stopping here.

And she stopped the lineage of children being relinquished.

But it's like we have, when there is systemic damage, we have to do the work.

We have to go to our inner wisdom.

That's why people say, what's the answer?

Whatever.

Really it's spirituality.

It's like coming home, come home to yourself, come home to your authenticity.

Come home to what you need to do, to, you know, 'cause we're human beings and we have empathy and we, we wanna help.

I think it's, we don't sit still long enough to be still to see what needs to change.

And I've been at it 13 years with adopt change, with, you know, great team around me trying to change the system.

And it's been Doug, Andrew and I got, you know, prime Ministers on board and they said to move, be, be moved.

What, what are the, what are the hurdles in place?

What are, what's the systemic kind of issues?

It's issues, I think it's because it's within myself in trouble, but it's with, it's within the government.

There is a culture that is overworked, under-resourced, and not inspired to want to shift the needle.

So are there, are there any, 'cause they're tied, they're, or else, and, and it's a lot of people who have been burned by the system that wanna, don't wanna push it forward.

Does, is there enough, what's, what's the proportion of, um, willing or it's systemic or able parents who would like to adopt?

Like people going into extremes and flying overseas for surrogacy for it to India, forget eggs.

So people go to all these extremes and I was like, people in the adoption says, I mean, people who were doing that, I was like, in the IB flinks, I'm like, let's put things out for adoption.

But they said you can't because you can't do adoption easily because there's so many rules.

I mean, there were obscene, uh, barriers to adoption, like mass body weight.

If you were too fat, you couldn't adopt.

Some woman told me that she was quizzed about her sex life.

I mean, this is getting ridiculous.

That's pretty, that's it was kind of, and, and just.

Overly overly, uh, bureaucratic details that and every minute a child is not in a permanent loving family, that they're being damaged.

There are enough, uh, families that want to adopt, to adopt the number of children.

No.

That Well, so what, what, what, what A lot of families won't be, I dunno, the data I'm and numbers never.

I failed math.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

I'll give you my c She can give you more the details, but No, the, but foster kids, all the kids are hard.

It's harder with all the kids, you know, that you're taking on a lot of, um, issues.

And it takes very special people that step up for that.

But I adopt change.

What we do is give as much support to the families that are, you know, fostering these kids.

And we give, and to me the most important thing is the, the support for mental health because.

Every child that is separated from their birth family is, it's trauma.

Yeah, trauma.

Um, and is the system similar in the states, you know, is is, or is that, is it totally different?

Is it better or worse or, I it's universal.

It's better.

It's better, but it's universal that this is a problem.

The world over.

I don't think anyone's gold standard.

I think Scandinavia is probably the best.

Sweden, I think.

What, what do they, do you know what they do differently that might make it a better their system?

I don't, I don't, I just know their system works better, that they have more support in place.

That they, that their structure, their infrastructure of how the system works.

It's like anything, any business you, you gotta.

Make an infrastructure that serves, but also it history too might play in that, you know, like they might have got it right, so to speak, you know, way back when.

And as you say, it's, and plus we have this thing attached in Australia to the stolen generation, which is not, if I hear that one more time.

And, and our aboriginal, the community is being greatly disturbed.

There's so many kids in foster care from the aboriginal community and that we need, we need help there.

But you know, when people say to me and, and compare adoption to the stolen generation, that was fact stolen.

Generation was theft.

Let's be clear on that.

Nothing to do with adoption.

Adoption is about providing a loving home for a child that needs to, to be cared for.

It's kind of, it's kind of the other end of the, of the, of the, of the spectrum isn't the journey.

So I get cross when people bring that up.

Yeah.

But that, that's part of I think why people, politicians are scared to touch it.

Definitely very controversial and all.

Yeah.

They might miss out in a few votes.

Yeah.

Easy to do.

Nothing about it.

Um, and as you say, I think it's, which is a sin, I think, to know something and not do anything about it.

Now, why do you, why didn't you get into politics?

Oh, oh, come on.

You'd be perfect.

I was door bitch.

I let everyone in.

I believe everyone.

I think everyone's got the nice agenda.

Oh.

And, and, and politics.

Oh my God.

I could never be a politician.

No.

Why?

Because I, I, you'd be funny and fun.

I would be funny and fun.

Your press conference would be, but, but politics to me is a little dry.

It's like you, it's basically you've got everyone's problems.

You're gotta make them work.

You gotta say yes to everyone.

Yes.

And you are good at saying no.

I'm, I'm are getting, I'm better at saying no.

Were you, was there once upon a time, you just said yes to everything.

Yes.

Not everything, but I, I've learned how to say no.

Yeah.

As a survivors tool.

Yeah.

Okay.

And po And also politics doesn't light me up.

You, you, you, you have to follow your roadmap of what lights you up.

Tell me, um, topical, we are, we're in the states.

We happen to be here when things went down last weekend.

Yeah.

Um, any thoughts on that?

Great respects for Joe Biden.

Stepping aside.

Um, he's a good man.

What was he, did he do that yesterday and he stepping aside for his country yesterday?

Yesterday or the day before?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he has, there was a, there was a moment where, did he endorse Kamala or he hasn't endorsed her?

He's, is it open book now?

I, I, I can't follow it, but I'm not sure.

Dunno, I'm in my sanctuary.

I've sort of tried to shut all that and if we're gonna get into politics, I may snooze on No, I keep me awake.

I, I couldn't care less, to be honest.

Only I'm, I'm, we have to care because especially this year, we have to care because.

It's, it's a big year in America.

I'm more curious about the, the, you know, people's responses or thoughts because we, I see what I see on social media.

Don't watch tv, don't see the news.

I dunno what, what, yeah, that's, I've got my thoughts on that, but, um, I just find it, it's, I mean, politics, a bit of circus everywhere isn't it?

Politic, it's a complete circus.

But you know what, that scares me of politics.

Okay.

You realize, you, we, we think everyone's in it for altruistic and wanna change the world and wanna do good for our communities politics.

That's why I could never do, I believe everyone what they're saying, but everyone has an agenda, a personal agenda, which to stay in politics, to stay in power, you've gotta serve that agenda.

And, and it's a lot of corruption.

It's a lot of, you know, self-serving people that are not doing it for the right reason to.

Wanna create a great world, do you think some of 'em go into it with all the right intentions and they get caught in the machine?

Do you know anyone in, I don't talk to politicians except those who are involved in the adoption situation.

Yes.

I had to, I had to meet with a lot of politicians and Yeah, and, and, yeah, it's tricky.

I don't, I don't think they, it's tricky because they, they, I can see that they don't, they're sc they was in the beginning, they were like scared to get involved 'cause oh, they might go, it's controversial and they could get in trouble and.

And probably they're all scared to offend or, and also I guess they gotta, they've gotta gotta toe the party line.

Exactly.

And every party's got a, got a view on a policy, on everything, whether they kind of talk about it or not.

Yeah.

And so it's like, no, no individual politician's gonna step out.

Yeah.

I'd love someone to step up in child services that's really passionate, you know, I just hook up with someone in child service and get them behind us and we're ready to go and do things.

And then, you know, change of government and the guy from the horse racing department's now in charge, in charge of child services and I gotta go out to dinner with him and say, so tell me about, yeah.

And he's from the race horse racing department.

That in itself is a bit of a joke, isn't it?

Like how, how do they expect any consistency or, exactly.

I cannot tell you just when we, and it takes a lot to develop relationships with politicians, to get them on board, to get the behind your cause and, and forge ahead and then change and then, well, I guess it just shows that's not, it's not about getting the job done and actually having the best people on the, on the, on the, you know, right.

Seat in the, on the bus.

It's more like, okay, who have we got?

Let's just fill that role, get to the next election.

I mean, when I remember doing, and that's not all politicians, I believe.

No, some people are drawn to it because they really do wanna make a difference.

Let's can't be too extreme.

We're not gonna bash all the politicians.

Yeah.

We're not gonna bash them.

Just a few of 'em, few.

But I remember in economics it was a commerce in school and our, we had a very How failed that?

Did you?

Well, I napped.

No, well, I guess it's, it's, it's sometimes got a bit to do with numbers, hasn't it?

An geography?

Oh no, no.

I had one teacher one year.

Who was economics and I've got a great shows.

You.

Okay, let's give a shout out for the teachers.

Teachers.

It shows you that a teacher can make all the difference.

'cause I used to be so bored in economics and this one, and I was sort of like the naughty, distracting girl, cracking jokes or whatever.

And this one teacher liked me and she championed me and turned me on with economics was only one year.

It is.

It's a very good point, isn't it?

And she's now a chef.

Really?

Yeah.

A good chef.

A brilliant chef.

I gonna give her a shout.

I'm give her a give a, and you'd love her.

Talk about regenerative farming.

Where is she?

Oh really?

She was my economics teacher and she championed me.

It was the first time that I, I took an interest and that's because of a teacher.

Teachers have a huge, huge.

Uh, they can make or break a child's direction.

It's a huge direction.

It's a huge responsibility.

Have, have you just seen what's turned up?

I have a beautiful lady being my wife, fellow Sagittarian and a wonderful, we have to get a shot of that because that's, that's one of the most, I can't do a cheese pal like that.

See, I love beauty.

Yeah.

I got beauty and beauty.

Wow.

You don't, don't never ask me to do a cheese powder, because I just open the cheese.

Put it on the bench.

Hang on, check it out.

Not feeding.

So look at this, look at this cheese.

That's, that is so, oh my God.

From my, from your over there.

No, it's deer.

We, we it's one of your deer.

It's deer milk.

We have a lot of deer.

It's deer milk.

Um, yeah.

No, let's, I wanna, I love teachers.

I mean, there's some teachers I actually despise because I kind of, I can see the damage that they do.

But there are some teachers, case in point, I had, um, uh, a, a teacher called, I can't think of his surname.

Christian name, Tommy Egg.

Is it John?

Edgar Edgar, I can't think so.

And he was my English teacher and he was fantastic.

And he nurtured my writing and, you know, and all it took, that's all you need and confidence.

And then, and all it took was like a, a couple of nice comments about a piece I'd written.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I, I remember the piece I wrote, and this is in year nine, I reckon I remember the piece I wrote.

I didn't think it was that good, but he said, this is really good stuff.

And I, um, I remember that so well.

And there's another guy, um, Pete Rainey who, oh, he, I have him in year seven.

We, have you watched, seen the movie Harold and Moore?

Yeah.

Oh gosh, ages ago.

Yeah.

He, we used to watch it every term.

I dunno why he said it's the best movie ever.

That's, but they, but Oh, thank you.

But they're the ones, they're the teachers that make the impression.

They the nurture, they can see the potential.

They can see the, the genius, the skill.

Yeah.

Whatever happens to be, or even just the curiosity.

So they, the door, the portal for that kid to explore.

Maybe I words.

I, I actually love that.

I'm very conscious not to drop my fountain pen on your lovely white.

Um, because I'll get smacked.

Well, good.

That I think I love eating.

I love cooking.

Well, I love that you, uh, you, as you said, you said something hilarious last night I did about the, an old boyfriend in candles.

No problem.

I was doing this guy, and, 'cause I love beauty.

I love to create, I love to create magic.

And every, every, every meal should be an event.

I like everything to be an event.

And I would light the candles at night.

And then when I, he just said, he said, why are you lighting the candles?

You're just wasting it.

And in that moment I was like, okay, I'm just gonna pat my bags right now.

I'm outta here.

This is never gonna work.

Never gonna work.

And I've lighting the candles ever since he failed.

Failed miserably.

Well, I have to hear that.

And that's just, it says so much doesn't.

It's like you don't think that you're worthy of enjoying your life.

You don't wanna.

Like every moment counts and should be beautiful.

Why waste it?

I hate wasting.

I have to say, this trip we've been on and we've been at it for three weeks and I've been reflecting, I haven't been writing much in my journal at all, unfortunately.

No, I've about that.

Lilla has been doing a little, she's got little cute, you should get her to show you little black book.

She's bought herself these little, um, watercolor pens and they're like those little squishy pens where you've gotta I know, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she's, every day she's drawing the day like, like something like, there's three or four little images on each page, only a small page.

And I thought, well, that's such a lovely way to, to document.

But my point is that this trip, and I was saying to Angela, like, we, and to your point about capturing the good and the learnings and so on, I said to her, when we get home, we are not going to miss the opportunity to sit down and reflect on our trip and.

Action, execute, whatever your word you wanna use.

The the things we learned, the things we loved, and the, you know, the things we wanna, um, have been inspired by.

One thing for me and your garden is doing it right now, are these beautiful oak trees and other types of trees.

Some I'm not familiar with, and I keep going, you know, one of my legacies needs to be, I want it to be lovely landscape at our farm, so I'm gonna go home and plant some trees.

Um, so thank you for reinforcing that, that inspiration that you have in this beautiful garden.

Thank you.

Um, there are many other things, but, um, that, how do we get onto that one?

Oh, just, just being inspired and, and, and, and, and making, that's what travel does always.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

It.

This house is, I've got a bit of my trip to Japan, bit of my trip to Morocco.

Like the stuff, all the things that I saw in my travels.

I incorporated into Story of your life.

Yeah.

Or parts of your life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so where to now, where are we gonna go now?

Apart from cheese.

Apart from cheese.

Cheese.

We love cheese.

Okay.

Well, um, thank you for talking about the, that adoption stuff.

'cause that was, 'cause I met your, your children many years ago.

They're only quite young.

Yeah.

At the time.

Oh, you're a star.

Thank you.

Um, and they're both in New York.

Yes.

Um, my son's an artist and he loved, I remember last time I saw you, you, you told me how he loved plants loves and he a real thing for loves.

He's always, I mean, he was a baby.

He climbed trees.

He was always climbing trees.

He walks out here and comes back and goes, mom, he's passionate.

I, I found Mullin.

Do you know Mullin?

If you do it as a tea, it's good for your lungs and we've got a hold.

Garden for tea that he, he's like an alchemist.

He just, he loves being in nature.

So where does that come from?

I mean, you know, that's like, so, so let's just look at this for a minute.

There's, there's, I think it's, I think it's in his, you he was from the country.

So in Well, that's my point.

So, so children, people can have childhood trauma, which, you know, sends them in different directions, but in the, at the same time, there can be very positive epigenetic, um, impulses or expressions that, that that can take back.

So, you know, his great grandmother may have been a bit of an alchemist and who knows.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, totally.

Totally.

And he's very, he's very spiritual too.

So I'm, I think lives going way back, I mean, I.

If you look at his artwork, I'm like, I mean, my son.

Where does that come from?

Exactly?

I'd love to know.

Well, I mean, you, you, you, you did, yeah.

So there's I and I, an artist and I, I provided an environment for him to express himself.

Like I followed his leap, you know, what his interests were.

We went when he was three, he was mad about everything Egypt, and we had an opportunity.

So we took him to Egypt and I remember he, he, we went to the museum.

We saw Rames, uh, skeleton in the thing.

It was like, it was Justin Bieber.

He was like, he was like this real ramesses.

Oh my God.

Oh my god.

And this kid, we had this archeologist who was touring us around, and my little three-year-old, he is arguing with the archeologist.

He just has this knowledge.

He, he has his, he's really smart.

He's just got a knowledge, but it's like, I don't know where it comes from.

That's what I do think, believe in past lives, even with his spirituality, he's explored all religions and is very informed, and that's his interest.

And my daughter's gonna now have the opportunity through college to find out what her passions are.

She's also artistic, and so she's gonna do that that few years of kind of, um, various, yeah, maybe, yeah.

It's her, it's, she's just coming into adulthood.

She's launching, so I'm letting her.

Choose her part.

So as a mommy, what, what have you got any parenting tips for?

I need some.

Oh, we all, we could all do with some boundaries.

Boundaries, yeah.

We think we do our, we all 'cause our kids and we love them and we always say, oh, well, oh, well.

And we, I think, and, and I think we're softer.

Our generation is softer than that before us, so, well, what, what, what?

I mean, I like, we don't want our kids like, you know, to suffer or like, oh, don't worry about it.

And, you know, is that because we suffered?

Do you think?

Is that, is that like we go, oh, I don't want them to, excuse me, feel the pain or the, yeah, probably I don't, I dunno.

I, but I know that before, I mean.

You, we used to get the strap in school.

You couldn't do that now.

Mm.

I mean, it was very disciplinarian.

You'd never speak back to the, you know, grownups and, and like, now we're world, have we gone too world?

Have we gone too far?

You think that, do you think there's this controversial question?

Bing, bing.

Do you think there's room for, for not the strap or No, I do not believe we should be beating our children.

I, I don't think we've gotta do that.

I truly believe we should be beating our children.

No, but I think we've given, we've given them and I don't think that they want it.

We've given them too much choice.

Like, how do you feel?

You know, we're very that like, how do you feel about that?

You know, like, you know, it's So we're sort of giving them, they want boundaries.

Yeah, they want boundaries.

They wanna know that you're in charge and you know what you're doing.

And a lot of us.

Think we know, we, we hope we know what we're doing.

Like we dunno what we're doing, but we're giving it out shot.

So, you know, we, it depends on the tools you were given, how you were parented.

That's how you parent.

So it depends what you have.

Do you think your parenting was a, was a, is a reflection on, on the, on, you know, yeah.

Hundred percent.

Yeah.

As a child.

Hundred percent.

What else?

How else would I learn?

Learn.

How else do we learn?

You could read a heap of books.

No, it's not me because there's no shortage of books.

I had a parent, I haven't read any of them, by the way.

Exactly.

My mother, she's, she's given me quite a few.

There's a woman who's a friend of mine who's written a book called Conscious Parenting, Dr.

Ali.

Oh yeah.

She's cool.

She is amazing.

Yeah.

And it's so true.

'cause I would speak to her and she goes, Hmm, bring it back to you.

That child is triggering.

You'd say, oh, he, he, you think the child's got a problem?

She's like, what is it in you that that child is triggering?

You know?

So And she has children.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

But so she really opened my eyes up to about conscious parenting that we are getting mad at the child because the child's not meeting what you want 'em to be kept in the basketball chamber and they're not.

It's your problem.

Your, your your And we're, you're, and we're placing that on theming.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

I think BI think boundaries, I think children need and want boundaries and they wanna know that you're in charge and you know what you're doing.

Yeah.

And a lot of us dunno what we're doing.

I mean, we become parents and like, we didn't pass an exam.

No.

We're all doing our best, you know.

One thing.

I can't remember if it, you know what, and it might be a Tony Robbins, is we, or we get the best of our parents and the worst from ourselves.

Do you believe that?

No.

No, no.

We get the worst.

Our parents too, we're carrying their shit as well.

Kidding?

I completely disagree with that statement.

Robo, robo.

You better me.

We get everything.

Well, we, we, we are in, we like, I think we get the band until they're, until they're five.

They're like little computers and they're all the data going in the way you look at your wife, the way that you look at grandpa, the subtleties of the relationship, that's all going in.

So we get the best, the, the good, the bad, and the ugly is all going in there.

And it's how you navigate all the stuff that went into your computer before you're five and someone we spend the first part of our life, all the stuff's going in.

Then the second part of your life, you end up trying to work it all out.

Like what, what I do wrong with on therapy said you trying to, trying to work it out.

What happened?

You trying to work out what do with all con all the content.

Yeah.

Um, and oh, I had a little quote Angelica quote there.

Um, I can't remember it now.

Uh, yeah, because they're little vessels, aren't they?

They just absorb and absorb and absorb completely.

And in utero.

Yeah, totally.

In utero.

All that stuff's going in you as you arrive.

So yeah, so, so there's the genetic trauma of, you know, inter intergenerational stuff and then there's literally whatever the environment.

Environment.

And that environment is not necessarily outside.

If you're stressed during pregnancy, that's going into your child and also food.

You, the food you're eating hundred percent food.

And you guess what?

Our medical, our doctors, guess what they don't study in medical school?

Nutrition, nutrition.

Hello.

I know, isn't that crazy?

It's nuts.

You've got, you, you, and that's why Garal mate, I highly recommend people look into Garal Mar.

I think he's the smartest guy in the, in the room, MINDBODY Soul.

And he, he's, you know, no doctor sort of asked about the patient, the, the, because trauma is what causes dis-ease.

So you go to the root of where the trauma started, then you can deal with disease, not just cover with bandaids of pharma, big pharma.

Yeah.

But that's a great business model though, isn't it?

You know, it's what it's a great business model they've got there.

They, they, they, they help farmers produce shit, food, which makes you say your nutrition is poor.

Yeah.

And then I'll give you as, as will, um, will Harris or a fantastic farmer in Georgia.

I interviewed the other day and he said they sell bullets and bandaids.

Yeah.

Mm.

How bad is that?

Yeah, it's shocking.

Um, I'm conscious of time.

Mm-hmm.

And this is a lovely little cheese, but we've gotta get to that cute little Italian restaurant We do.

Tell me, um, this is, this is a lovely place to be for you.

Where you're up to in life right now isn't Yeah.

My next chapter.

Your next chapter, I've, and, and lucky I'm a creative.

Yeah.

Because I've gotta get real creative.

I'm, I'm about to start a whole new chapter of my life and I'm, what I've learned thus far is to trust the universe and to surrender rather than.

So that's, that's where I'm at at the moment and I'm surrendering up to what I'm attracting.

So what are you attracting, you, what you wanna get back to?

What were you saying last night?

I'm attracting, I'm like already, what was I saying last night?

No, you, you, it was hysterical.

You're saying, you showed us that little clip about the, the, the little graphic or what do you call, meme or something and the guys going, Hey God, you know that manifestation I asked for, Hey, hey, universe height.

You know that manifestation I was talking about?

Um, do you know when it's arriving?

Is there a tracking number?

Uh, hello?

Is there someone else I can talk to about it?

Yeah, can I speak to whoever's in charge?

We don't know, but I am, I do, I am trusting that the universe, God, whatever you wanna call it, is working for me.

Well, you deserve that.

We all do.

Yeah, totally.

Yep, we totally do.

Yeah.

Um, and so, so, um, script, uh, how do you, what whatcha gonna not as a film script.

It's a, it's a, um, uh, screenplay.

Screenplay that's on the go.

Um, you have any other projects that sort of, you know, design projects?

Design?

Yeah, because you have, because I wonder, I'm, I love you win the War award or something.

Did you do something about 30 for this place?

Really?

We just, well, we just won.

That's all.

We just won International Interior Design award for this property.

Get outta here.

Which was really exciting.

'cause this was a labor of love and passion and you know, with my team, the architects and designers.

But we, you know, it was a collaboration and it was a labor of love and it, you know, and you said it was like, it was, it was a few years, wasn't it?

Like you, you, four or five years?

Four or five years.

Which is not a short period of time.

No, that's, and I loved, I loved the process, so I wanna do it again.

So I'm now working with other people who've asked me to do other projects.

So tell me any tip, because Angelica is, has found her calling somewhat in the project we did by Bay Byron, which looks beautiful.

It's amazing.

I gotta say it's go, it's amazing.

And I've watched her journey and her creativity just blossom and finding her, I guess, one of her purposes at least, because I don't think she's just got the one.

What, what, what, what did you discover about yourself in the process of, of, of, of, of creating this?

Are you, did you, you, are you a team player?

You directing traffic, you know, did your people skills improve?

'cause you had to, you know, through negotiation or, I mean, how do you deal with, uh, tra like a someone who's doing a job and they just didn't quite get the brief and you've told them 16 times this is what time everything gets lost in translation.

Yeah.

What I found doing this, because there's a certain part of the house, the mezzanine, and a girlfriend of mine who's a very famous designer, I'm not gonna say who it is, said, what are you doing that's crazy?

It won't work.

And da da.

And I really respect her.

She's amazing.

I had the architects who were not agreeing or, or getting it wrong, interpreting my vision.

I had a lot of pushback on certain ideas I had, but I just, I trusted myself.

I knew it.

I knew it.

And to the, and my, my greatest moment is that friend who's the, the designer.

Yeah.

She goes, I really, you were right.

It's, it was a great idea.

Holy shit.

It's all, but I, I, I fought, I fought against.

Sometimes you go, oh, and you listen when you list, start not trusting yourself and you listen.

But when you do that and you regret it.

So I, I learned to trust myself.

'cause everything that I got pushed back on or said, don't do it or don't do it, including the pizza oven, they said it'll never work.

Everyone loves the pizza oven.

The kids love it.

It worked.

Um, I, I learned to trust myself with my, my choices.

'cause only you can see the vision you've got and it's unique to you.

So they can't see it.

They can't see it.

It's a pretty permanent kind of thing.

Is it representation of your creativity?

Because as you say, if you got it wrong.

And you went, okay, hands here, I've got it wrong.

Yeah.

Like your decision.

Yep.

Right.

Not influenced by others can handle that.

Yep.

But as you say, if you don't go with your gut and you go with your head and you go, oh look.

I dunno, but okay, you're the expert.

Yeah.

Oh no, no.

You gotta look at that bloody thing for the rest too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's what I said, even in like, I did the same in New York.

The, the architects made this countertop higher and I thought, well, I'm either gonna pay a fortune to bring it down or I'm gonna pay a fortune therapist 'cause it's gonna bug me every day.

This countertop's not the right eye.

And I was right the whole, 'cause I'm very visual and I knew it was too high and I, I could see it and I, you know, had to take a whole huge slap.

Bring it down, you gotta do it.

Um, so you had to text again, like the artist, the blank, have courage to trust yourself.

That is the word of the day.

I think.

Courage.

Yeah, courage.

Um, you clearly have oodles of it.

Um, so, so project design, um, that, and acting.

I mean, I'm, I'm still, uh, it's, it, the acting is hard because it, you as an actor, you have to uproot your whole life and it's hard with family and everything.

You have to uproot your life and live in the middle of nowhere.

But there's this few projects that come my way.

So bit of acting as well maybe.

And, but my passions are, I think the design and, and creativity and I paint.

You gotta stop.

Yeah.

My wife told you, didn't she?

Yeah.

Two years has been, yeah.

No, but that would be, um, but I, but it's, it's right.

I needed to when the, when the right Oh, totally, totally, totally.

I needed to be still.

Oh, totally.

You had other, you, you, you, and then now, you know, as I said, you have.

This was a blank canvas and that took some years.

Yeah.

You now have literally blank canvases in your art room Yeah.

That are ready when you are.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Um, to put on there whatever you feel is, um, uh, necessary or appropriate.

Um, and I had another question for you.

Oh, you know what I wanna do?

What?

I'm gonna wrap it up.

How cute.

This is my baby.

You got your little ball?

Come.

Come here baby.

You got your little, I It's like a security ball, isn't it?

It's a baby, but yeah, it's a baby.

Come baby.

So what we're gonna do is we're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up because that's an hour 50.

Holy shit.

How is that?

It's always a good, it's always a good thing, a good sign.

Not that it happens often.

I have to say, when I get to nearly two hours and I go, oh, where the, where'd that go?

I love that.

That's awesome.

Thank you so much for your patience and your time.

You dinner now?

Oh no, Andy's been practicing a few, few, a few dance moves, so, we'll, we'll do that.

No, her Italian actually you might speak better Italian than her.

You were saying you were probably see, you were, see we were laughing today because we were, um, in town and uh, we, because every time and she actually re your, your buddy and ans buddy re she says the same thing.

They'll be speaking Australian and then they'll come to an Italian word and I'll just like give it all their Italian news if they can.

And then I'll finish the sentence from Australian.

I do that too.

So, um, we're gonna do that tonight, uh, over, when we read the menu at the, at the restaurant.

Is that them, uh, who Zam.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Um, and uh, what I'm gonna do, if it's okay with you, we're gonna, we're gonna have a break.

We're gonna have a bit of cheese and biscuit get and strawberry.

Yeah.

It's so good.

For two minutes.

You can, you can do we, I'll go do we or whatever we need to stretch of legs.

And then if you are up for a little 10 minute, it's a q and a.

I've got sort of four or five very standard questions, which I, I, I, I, um, roll out to my guests, which goes to my subscribers.

So I have my, this is, this is the, the free version.

Well, you know the, the interview and then I have a little subscriber biso where people who pay $5 a month or something.

Oh shit.

Take cheese.

Oh, it's all gone.

Look at that.

What a way to eat.

No, that's all good.

The cheese platter.

The cheese on the floor.

On the floor.

That's all right.

The dog hasn't gone for it, so that's good news.

There's, there's no ants.

Um, what we should we cut while we clean up?

We will.

I'll finish that Blur in, in the break.

De you're a star.

Thanks, son.

That was hilarious.

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