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you Hey, this is Frank Barberi, the writer of The Author Immortal, and you're listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

m Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Norris.

Joining me today is the creative team behind the literary fantasy image comic series, The Author Immortal, which tells the tale of Hector Ramirez, a failed writer who gets the opportunity of a lifetime to help reboot the fantasy book series that defined his childhood.

But when he discovers the original author has mysteriously vanished into a fictional world, Hector has pulled into a realm where stories are alive and some are willing to kill to stay in control.

It is my pleasure to welcome writer Frank Barberry and artist Morgan Beam onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

Thank you for having us.

It's a pleasure.

again, it's funny hearing you talk about our books.

I still can't believe it's out because we've been working on it for a while.

More guys, are you nodding?

Two issues as of tomorrow.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, we're recording this on November 11th, which the second issue will be out on November 12th.

So we're getting a and that actually brings up a good question.

Morgan, you actually something happened to you right before the recording that I do want to talk about.

But I want to ask you guys before we even get into that preamble before the preamble, do you want to get into any particular spoilers during this conversation?

know, creators sometimes differ depending on the conversation.

And being that this is the second issue.

You would hope that people that are checking out this have already read that first issue, but I wanted to leave it up to you and see what you thought.

I am not coy about anything.

anything, think there is stuff in issue one that if we talk about and if you do not read issue one, we'll hopefully make you want to read issue one.

eh I don't mind at all.

don't know, Morgan, if you have a...

I you've at least read issue one, think.

Maybe spoilers for that, but...

Sure sure.

Optimistic.

Well Morgan let's get back to that initial question I was going to ask you because right before the recording you had some you said it was a student who popped into your your room there.

Studio mate who popped in to grab their bike out of my conference room, is also...

So I work in a studio, it's me, uh four other comic creators and one editor.

uh And so, yeah, I'm currently recording in our quote unquote conference room, which is also the storage room and library and 3D printing room.

So most of time it's pretty vacant, but sometimes people need to pop in, which is what happened before.

Sure.

Are you uh at Liberty?

Are you comfortable to say who those studio mates are?

just curious.

The comic nerd in me wants to know what magic is happening in that room at all times.

yeah, for sure.

So, uh yeah, it's me, Jorge Corona, Rye Hickman, David Stoll, Jeremy Lawson, and then our resident manga editor slash writer Lauren Scanlon.

It was there too, yeah.

thought it was just you coming.

she actually moved in, I think, right after Comic-Con, so...

Wow, that's awesome.

Where you based that up Morgan?

I'm out of Denver, Colorado.

Denver.

Okay.

And then Frank, you're out of New Jersey.

Did I get that correctly?

I'm from New Jersey, but I'm in Austin, Texas now.

Okay.

All right.

So, wow.

We're all over.

I'm in Indianapolis.

We're all over the place right now.

is going global right now.

That's right.

US global.

Well, you know, I'd love to start off the actual conversation about the author immortal by going to a quote, Frank, that you had.

was listening to a conversation and I'm actually spacing because you've been on the literal gauntlet of interviews.

It seems like since this first issue released.

It's funny because Christian Ward, who is a dear friend of mine, like I was talking to him just about press.

He's like, have you done a podcast?

I was like, buddy, let me tell you, they're all going to hit at the same time.

Thanks for hustling his face off to get the word out about this book for sure.

And respectfully though, everyone is so booked up.

Cause again, I think you all are doing great jobs in the podcast space and everyone wants to be on them that there were so few that I guess Jim, Jim Fiscardi and Rosenberg got his out before release.

But honestly, like I'm glad to get them out now because like there's just so much like issue one, like bloat, which yeah, you want it to do well, but I feel like we could have a more interesting conversation with two issues being out, et cetera, et cetera.

uh Yeah, totally.

I mean, it's one of those things that I feel like right around the time that that first issue came out, I saw not only people excited about that first issue, but also, again, as we just spoke about you hitting that gauntlet.

And you kind of have to do that in today's comic world, know, the marketing and all that.

There are some people out there that don't have to market their work and they're like one of the 0.1 percenters in any medium, not just comics.

But I always respect those creators that go out there and hustle their way into, and I know you kind of enjoy, like some people enjoy that conversation, but at the same time it is still like, it's hard to put your personality in the front of your face for an hour and talk about this thing that you love that's very personal and intimate to you, you know?

Morgan knows every time I'm like this time I'm gonna sound smart and then immediately I tell stories about myself being an idiot and I'm like well I guess this is who I am and it's alright my book is not like me but I can at least laugh at myself and have fun with it instead of being like smart Frank, just smart and relatable.

Let me get my monocle on and I can start the interview proper.

uh no, it's I like doing podcasts too, because I feel like text interviews are very hard because one like, especially if the like interviewer isn't like so so familiar or it's a new book, like questions are hard to come up with, like other than pretty general questions, not being at one place, but like truly like you don't know the content necessarily and I don't know, I enjoy just having conversations much more because it can flow and there's a lot of interesting things like Morgan Studio coming up.

That was such a nice organic, uh...

totally.

Well, let me get back to that quote that I was mentioning earlier.

said, you said, and again, I'm spacing the actual show, but I'm sure you said some version of this and other shows where the author immortal is a literary fantasy about what happens when you outgrow a story you love, but it won't let you go.

So I would love to hear you sort of talk about noodle on this idea of fantasy worlds being corrupt, right?

And how, when our fantasy world becomes sort of tainted, I guess would be the best way to say this.

It can sort of seep into your real world and it can sometimes stunt that maybe affection for a particular work or even stunt that creativity.

So I love to hear you just sort of talk more about that.

And I want to hear this from both of you, but I guess I'll start with you, Frank.

Do you feel that actually in real life or is that just something that you sort of possessed and then put into Hector in the story?

200 % and at this point we don't have to be coy with it because one thing I will say is that the solicit for the book was really way dealing with like kind of surface plot.

It was very hard to solicit because there's this huge undercurrent about the book being about death of the author.

The idea that hey like there are famous people we have grown up loving who created worlds we love that have outed themselves as very bad people, monstrous in many cases, been canceled and it has affected so much of literature.

mean, the big big one obviously is J.K.

Rowling and Harry Potter that really I think that was just such a generational novel and uh I am 41 and uh I just missed Harry Potter like it was obviously a phenom but I didn't like read the books.

I saw the movies but uh so many people my age still that were very very into it and like I feel like that is just such a fascination point for me that We have this thing that was such a huge part of everyone's life and if people do not know, the writer of Harry Potter, J.K.

Rowling, is an awful anti-trans activist who is moving actual legislation that is actively hurting people and just terrible person should not be supported in any way, in my opinion.

But I think most people feel that way when they know what's going on.

uh Literally using her like lumps of money.

It's horrific.

It is like and it's it's a little unprecedented because there's always been this idea of death of the author We're like, separate the artist from the work, but we have a living person who is actively Doing wrong with the money from not an insubstantial IP like there are things it was the last like I talked to my partner a lot about this like the last generational IP I feel like before the internet really started segmenting off like I guess Game of Thrones was little but Harry Potter is a huge part of so many people's lives and The thing that I say, and Morgan, I'll let you get on this too, because this is something that we talked about a lot to bring the book to life.

I had wanted to do like a metafiction book.

Like one of my favorite books of all time is The Unwritten.

even Five Ghosts, like my first book had some elements of it, but I didn't go like full hog because like one, I was still a baby writer and I was kind of like shy, like, oh, I don't want to do straight literary fantasy.

Like this is by all means kind of a superhero book with that veneer.

But when it got time to start thinking around like 2020, like what I really want to do as my next comic.

was like, you know, I want to just like really go for it.

I feel been writing all my adult life.

This is what really interests me.

But I didn't have the total weigh in yet.

And I can't remember what it was, but part of it was seeing Morgan's art when we first started talking.

But I feel like right before I emailed Morgan, I'd seen something that was like, what if the villain is like kind of a modern stand in for J.K.

Rowling.

Like what if they are a very prominent author who's created a hugely uh big IP but something has gone wrong and they become cursed and things have fallen out and that really solidified so much of what the book is actually about for me because that's what's interesting to me and I also find it fascinating that as much as many of us know this like there aren't a lot of works that are directly engaging with it and the author immortal is not an answer like I'm not going to tell you hey go burn your books by ex-author because we think they're bad now.

But it's a question that drives, I think, a lot of creatives right now.

Like, how do we work with this?

How do we create something productive?

What does it mean?

in so many of the smaller conflicts in the book, I'm so proud of we came up with.

mean, there's a, I'll give one more thought, Morgan, and we'll pass it to you.

the full team on the book is obviously myself, Morgan, doing beautiful art.

We have Hassan Ahtsame Nauhau doing beautiful lettering, just elevating everything.

ah Sasha Ehad doing design and just great logo, great work, and a editor named Arden Ripley who does intense story editing with me.

They go over every script and we really work through stuff and they bring some perspective to the work and it just helps so, much and I think helps us get in the pocket of where we wanna be as a big part of the book is identity.

I mean, we want people to realize like, hey, like you can kind of free yourself from the burdens of like these things you love, you can still take what you need from them, et cetera, move on.

But it was a really Again, it was big missing piece for me how to fill in like, knew we want to have this metafictional mystery, this writer who kind of invented a pre-token IP and like potentially using it to keep his daughter alive and a portal fantasy to a world.

But filling in the kind of death of the author stuff really made it so much more important to me and I think made it a much better story, like made it a lot more relevant.

And I will laugh that like, yes, we have a character who is representative of many authors who a lot of people peg just for rolling.

And it made me laugh because someone's like, that's not subtle.

like, well, yeah, it's not supposed to be like if a famous white lady.

We made it more subtle than the first.

The first half, was like, gonna go all punk rock.

I'm just gonna come for her.

And we had to have, yeah, a friend to be like, don't do that.

like, I'm like, she's famous.

What if it just is her?

And yeah, my attorney was like, yeah, maybe not, bro.

we don't But like, as I said, like honestly, though, I feel like if you feel like any like white lady who's British who doesn't like trans people is J.K.

Rowling, that's more of a J.K.

Rowling problem than an art problem, in my opinion.

Totally.

To be fair, yeah, we did, we did very blatantly, it's not subtle, you know, she was our satirical approach ah to JK Rowling.

ah But, you know, as we talked about the plot further, even though that was kind of the prototype, she's a stand-in for many authors that we've all loved, you know, over time, that, you know, their works meant so much to you, and then you found out that the person sucked.

I mean, very recently it was Neil Gaiman and the controversy surrounding that, and I'm somebody who was a huge Gaiman fan.

Yeah, but- very let down.

uh like my big high school let down since I read the Harry Potter books growing up and I was a huge fan, but I was a huge fan in high school and I felt very seen and understood by the Enders Game books.

ah You know, that one was really formative to me, ah especially as like a young sort of bi baby and then realizing that Orson Scarcard was a monster.

And also used his power and money and things for some really uh terrible...

terrible things.

You know, it's just something that is not new, unfortunately, it comes up again and again.

And unfortunately, because people are people, it is also going to continue happening in the future, you know.

And so I think, you know, Frank, Frank had a lot of that in the head was just about how how you separate these stories that were so impactful and possibly formative for you and have impacted your life with the reality.

uh you know, of a human being and you as a human being and also people you love, right?

I think the book is also a lot about sort of at least from our characters perspective, learning to choose the people you love in your life kind of over the fiction or stories that you thought you would have to cling to forever.

uh Which I think is also sort of a big...

thing happening to people as they come up.

know, like, I have a friend, I have a trans-nominary friend and Harry Potter was like there forever.

You know, they always talked about like, what house are you in?

And you know, it was like a very identity-for-every thing.

And now they're like, I don't know.

I don't know what to do with it.

And so I think, you know, it's just about learning to, like as Frank said, like kind of take what you need from that, you know, without guilt and letting know those stories, but also, but also choosing either yourself or the people you love in your life over sort of terrible people.

As Frank said, the book is not seeking to really answer any of these questions, but it's just trying to start a general discussion that I think people have been interested in having for a while.

And I will just add on that.

uh It's been so fun to find like the layers of it as we continue to, because there's obviously a huge focus with us.

Our main character Hector and our other main character Al is his kid who is non-binary and Hector is hired by basically this awful writer who has come out and basically said anti-trans things in the world of the book.

And Al has to confront their dad and be like, yo, you're going to work with that person?

Like, have you considered how I feel?

And These are real discussions happening.

People have to constantly make compromises of like, know this sucks, but I need the money or like the clout is here.

And as I said, it's not an answer, but like to simply expose that conflict hopefully is like relatable to some people as we know, like this has so many ripples.

And just the idea that the last thing I constantly bring up, because I find it so funny is like Hector has named his child after a fictional character from a book, which is me just thinking of all the poor kids named like Hermione or even named Game of Thrones characters.

So you.

Yeah, yeah, I just find that so...

I don't mean funny in a mean way, but it's like you raise your kid and you name them after this fictional character.

And I know you hope, like, I hope my kid Luke Skywalker is gonna love Star Wars.

And I find it so funny, like, what if they don't though?

And like, they're sullied with this name you gave them of like...

And obviously we have Al in our book who does not want to necessarily be associated with uh Alathea, who is the female character in our story that they were named after.

And again, we...

see that actually come to a head pretty quickly.

it's been, as I said, from our side, like it's been really fantastic fuel to engage with, with what I think is important discussion, but not shy away from it or use it as just a, part of the reason we didn't want to put it in the initial marketing is I didn't want people to think it was just like a culture war book or something that we're just doing for attention.

Like it is the reason the book exists.

Like this is what we are chasing.

Like this is what we aren't answering, but where we're going.

And ultimately when we Hope we get to the end of our story long from now.

We'll realize and provide a viewpoint on and obviously it's going to be a lot more constructive than just like, like go rip up your copies of sad bad, or I like that.

Totally.

know, this conversation is so, and I guess the series as well, is very serendipitous to this exact sort of internal struggle that I've been having, not only with Harry Potter, because I'm 34.

I am literally the age of Harry Potter and his friends.

a little peek behind the curtain, I guess, is that the week before this, my partner Olivia and I were just in Orlando, and we had a chance to go to Universal and see this world that for a long time was so special me, but it's almost impossible.

to go to something like that or watch the movies or do anything Harry Potter related and still not think about JK Rowling and what she sort of represents in today's world.

Because she just still has so much ownership of those characters in that world.

And like even the new show that's coming out through HBO is totally under her belt.

People are just sort of looking the other way.

They're either like calling it out constantly or they're looking the other way.

And another example of this for me, and I'm sure you guys have plenty of but this really hits home for me is like when I was a kid, Kanye West's Graduation was my all-time favorite album.

He was very, very...

Totally.

I think for a lot of us, up to about...

I mean, for me, was probably like 808 and Heartbreaks.

It was around the time where I stopped loving Kanye as much.

there is an early period of Kanye and his work that was so revolutionary and spoke not only to me as a person, but just a genre that I love of hip-hop.

And sort of to see what he's...

I want to say morphed, but I don't think that's the correct word.

Maybe digressed into.

because he is clearly someone who is mentally um unwell, I guess is probably the best way to say it.

And I feel for him in that sense, but at same time, he's saying and doing horrible things.

guess my whole, this is my long winded way of basically saying that I am of two minds of this exact conversation.

And like you guys said, it was really refreshing to hear you say that you're not trying to give anyone answers.

You're literally just trying to have the conversation, noodle on the idea.

Everybody can come up with their own sort of hypothesis.

about what the correct route is for how do you love a thing that's created by a monster, right?

that is a very interesting maze.

You know, because like you said, like it's also just something that like everybody's dealing with, including Frank and I, know, and we, you know, we're not going to be the kind of people with like, have the answer.

Like we're, we're comic creators.

at you too and make you feel bad for you.

Because again, Harry Potter is like that monolith that like everyone you know is engaged with it.

And I know obviously many people get frustrated on all sides of this, but like that is why I'm saying like I just find it so fascinating that we haven't been grappling with it in our fiction as much.

I don't think it's because anyone's afraid, but like I know it is a touchy subject because you don't want to alienate people.

You don't want to not be constructive at the same time.

Like be so glad handy with it that the book is...

toothless or says nothing.

And that's why I said, like, really, it's been, it's been a process.

Cause I think when people point to the original death of the author, well, think Lindsay Ellis had some great video essays about it.

Like she just has a straight up death of the author one.

And then in real time reactions to the Harry Potter stuff, as well as there's a great ContraPoints video about, uh, love ContraPoints.

feel like it's nice.

It's not necessarily about her.

goes more into like the history of like women's rights and just like where TERFs even come from.

And then, Also, there's a great YouTuber named Sean who just S-H-U-N and he has a brilliant video essay about problematic stuff in Harry Potter.

Like if you still want to like Harry Potter, don't listen to this because he really gets in there and did his research.

there is a lot of dimensionality here.

And that's the big thing for me of saying like that we want to do a book about this.

also, again, it is also a fun fantasy book.

It is something to be exciting and engaging.

And I don't want people to be turned off.

by knowing that's in here, but I think we've threaded the needle because this is why I laughed.

The response issue one has been great.

And there have been some people who sent us some very heartfelt letters.

They're like, hey, I'm glad you're talking about a lot of this.

Like, and there's representation in the book and that this exists because I want this to.

And that's the most validating stuff I feel like for us to know.

Like, hey, people are excited.

But also I'm a huge nerd.

Like, I love the lock and key.

love, I said lock and key.

It sounded like I said the lock and key like a grandfather.

The lock and key, that one.

That was a huge influence on me.

Obviously Saga is a huge influence on me.

Monstrous and like, and really the unwritten.

And I want to tell this story with Morgan that is very much a love letter to those early 2000s Vertigo books that had big long runs.

I felt that.

Thank you for, yes.

Honestly, with the design by Sasha is I think exactly that, I think our whole team has like a deep love of early verticals that we were trying to channel in.

ah But also as Frank was saying, I think also just to highlight, you know, the death of the author uh and kind of dealing with that is kind of like an overarching meta story of our book, but also like it's not the only story, right?

You also have like a lot of struggle of just like interpersonal connections, which is one of my favorite parts of the story of like Frank did such a good job of writing characters who feel really real.

Like they have issues and they're messy and they're not perfect, especially like Hector, one of our main characters who's the father of Al, who is just kind of like the typical sort of like shitty sad dad.

like in such a like, I don't know, Frank, you did such a good way of writing him that like I love him.

Like I don't dislike him as a character, even though he's a deeply flawed man.

But also he's like, he's not doing a good job, but he is doing his best.

He really is asleep when the beans not doing great.

Um, but you can tell that like, you know, part of this book we get into is that, you know, he's made so many mistakes.

He's a truly messy guy.

He has, you you get into his own life outside of being a parent and whatever and the things he feels like he's filled out and his insecurities, but kind of the through line through it all is just how much he does love his kid.

Is that even though he hasn't been the best father and they haven't gotten along all the time, like, you know, Al is the most important thing to him.

which is just like a really important, I feel like, true line of that book.

And on top of that, you have like the fantasy elements and different identity things, but like, it's just, it's a pretty big mixed bag.

So just in case anybody's like, man, I don't want to read a book that's intensely sociopolitical or whatever.

It's an overarching thing.

There's a lot more like, internal story happening there too.

And it's also so important to us that we are also telling this from Al's point of view as well.

Like, issue one obviously leaned a lot more into Hector as a viewpoint character, but Al is a protagonist as well.

Like, we will get their take on it because it was so important that we weren't just, like, also immediately redeeming Hector, like, showing this character who's flawed and then by issue four be like, and he's fixed now.

Like, no.

And the same with Al.

Like, they're not right about anything.

They're a kid.

They don't fucking know how the world works.

so we're...

It's what I love about Ongoings as well.

We have room to kind of show these people, show their dimensionality and like, again, Morgan has done such a beautiful job of like rendering these characters with acting and just like making them feel real because honestly like comics, like I love comics so, much, but like if you write a character centric story and the art like doesn't have enough acting, it can be so dead on the page.

Also huge just plug for Haas who just does beautiful lettering that really like.

I compare it to, because I also work in video games and the number one, people love to say like, what did you learn from video games that you bring over?

Like, first thing is having an editor that's having anyone else other than me to give me feedback is very useful.

But two, just with uh character voice, just knowing like when I work with voice actors, that they can say hello like 50,000 different ways.

And it's much harder with the written word, but I think that's one thing that Haas really adds.

Like he knows what to emphasize.

He does great design on the page.

Not only with Morgan's fantastic acting, with the physicality of the characters of the story, we also get that extra plus one of the lettering.

And again, I'm just like on Cloud 9, as I feel like it's the most like emotionally resonant thing that I've ever achieved because the team is delivering.

it's nice to have that support and know that if we want to do a quiet scene, we can do it.

If we want to do a loud scene, we can do it.

And Morgan just sent me stuff with blood in it.

And I'm just like, oh, damn, look at this.

There's a lot of blood in the ship.

was red blood.

was like, I was curious if it was going to be like green, but I'm like, no, I like that it's red blood because it feels scary in a way.

But yeah, so again, obviously we're, writing a lot of, uh, different genre influences and character influences, uh, again, I'm sorry, were you going to say something that I did?

Who's just gonna, who's just further gonna gas up, Haas?

Haas and Sasha, like, I don't my god.

guy should have like seven Isers by now, I think.

Yeah, it's that's truly a tragedy but but just the fact like I I work traditionally with watercolor and I think a lot of times especially when you then go on and put digital things on top of that it can look very much like you put something digitally on top of that it doesn't quite integrate and Haas is like God here at that he Bless him.

He's lettered so much of my stuff.

He's probably sticking pins in my doll But he does such a good job like it just it interrogates so seamlessly any of you read the issues and they have like beautiful like sound effects that look like and kind of a washy style that's all Haas I didn't do that But also the same thing with Sasha, who's our designer, like really has done a good job of like seamlessly kind of integrating beautiful design elements into the watercolor style.

And as Morgan said, was especially striking to me in print how well Haas's lettering looks like it's part of the art because I have lettered most of my own books so I can dunk on myself.

Like when I do it and it looks bad, it just looks like stickers or like just, and I learned to do it because I was poor and I wanted to just get something out.

But so really I have an extra layer of appreciation because actually the pitch for the book I lettered and it's the opening pages we see and like, hosted those beautiful like handwritten captions.

I couldn't figure out where to put London on our pitch.

had to look at it the other It's hard.

had to look at it the other day, Morgan.

It looked so bad with my lettering.

was like, oh, bless Morgan for even considering this.

uh no, he really just, it's one of those things that coming into this project, and again, also being an image where image like.

The creators really do control every element of the book, which I'm sure many people bring up.

We decide what's on every page.

We do all our own book design.

And everything is us.

And for me, this was a project where I'm like, OK, well, if we're going to go for it, I don't want to cut any corners and just be like, I'll make the logo or anything crappy like that just to save.

Because this was, again, a book that I'm like, I'm not trying to do 10 other books right now.

This is the book I'm doing.

It's not a tryout for Marvel or GC or anything like that.

I want to do this book on image.

for hopefully a very long time.

And that's where my brain has been after not being around for, in comics for about five years as like a single creator.

I've co-written a bunch of stuff, which was very fun, but I knew coming back, I don't want to be over dramatic and say like, my bucket list book, but I Morgan this all the time.

So she won't cringe too hard, but I'm like, no, this is the one book that I really always want to make.

And I'm so glad that it looks like this.

As someone who's been able to read the first two issues, I think that I texted my co-host who's not here with us tonight, Aaron, and I said, this is an extremely digestible book.

It's a very digestible genre book about a very, and I said this, I said serious topic, don't, serious isn't the correct, important, I think is probably a better way to say it.

As we've already talked about sort of this idea of like corruption of our fantasy world.

And I want to get into that.

You said it a couple of times, Frank, and I want to noodle on that here in just a moment about sort of the ongoing.

creator-owned style.

We talked to Tom McFarland a couple of weeks ago here on the show and he was very, you guys ever heard of him?

know, Todd, right?

He's to be fine.

I'll tell you that.

But he mentioned this in the conversation.

He said like, there are like no, there's very few creators out there that actually strive to make their own, or their creator-owned ongoing.

They do.

you know, eight to 12 issues, sometimes more, sometimes less.

At the most, most of the time, 30 issues, right?

He says this as someone who's made it and has been running spawn since before I was born.

But for most creators, I empathize with because, you know, having the dreams of doing a career on book, if that's your only book, is, it can be a pipe dream for some folks.

you know, not everything is spawn in the 90s, right?

So, I mean that respectfully, of course, but like point being is that he had this idea of like, the ongoing creator.

I'm just curious, like you said this Frank and Morgan, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it too.

I guess it's part, here's a two parter.

If you had to just sort of at the very beginning of the story, if you had to put just sort of a random number on how many issues you want to tell of the author immortal, what would it be?

And then also at the same time, if you can, how would you convince Morgan to go along this journey with you?

It's gonna be a long time.

I say 60 because 60 is like that like pocket for me of like, oh, like that's like again, why the last man ex machina scalp unwritten, like everything.

It is very ambitious.

Like I, that is our goal though.

And when we sat down to make this book, I'm like, I'm not going to compromise and pretend we can't get there because again, one of my dear friends is a W.

Maxwell Prince.

He talking about this everywhere.

Just now it sounds like I'm like trying to like name drop, but he has been my, he was my roommate in college.

like Mr.

ice cream man.

Yeah, so I've known him forever and seen him like he saw me break in and then he finally broke in.

We've seen each other's most embarrassing comic works when we were pitching when we were in college.

So, but Ice Cream Man is like rounding out 50.

Like like W, I'll not say his real name as he does not use it.

Didn't have like crazy Marvel work.

Didn't have a name like and people just found the book and that's immensely inspiring.

to me and I hope everyone because like one of the biggest regrets I have is that we stopped doing Five Ghosts.

But what it was going to get to is the reality is the business has always been rough even when we were in like a giant balloon and books literally do hit natural attrition points where it's very hard for the single issues to make money.

And if you're lucky the trades are making money like I think a lot of people obfuscate this and I'm not going to go deep deep into comics business which I've been very fascinated for my whole career because it's so important but And this is where I take like the smallest issue with what Todd says is I think what he's saying is hugely correct and people should be aspiring to that.

But with the reality is like, dude, you made like a billion dollars off your issue one and had like like reservoir like, and I'm not shy about this.

Like I have to take out loans to do my book.

Like that I pay for upfront and gamble on myself that I hope we will get back and I do it because I care.

I'm Thankfully, in enough of position where I can do it, like as my credit score falls, that's the number one thing we have to fight.

But coming into The Author Immortal, like I knew we wanted to do this.

I knew I wanted to shoot for a longer series with Morgan.

So again, I've built safety nets where we can.

And that's why I'm not shy about saying it.

Is there a chance the book does not make it to 60?

Absolutely.

We can't control everything.

But like, again, right now, it's funny because issue two is not even out and Morgan does this.

We talk all the time.

I'm like hyper critical about every single little thing of like, oh my God, like I'm trying to like...

Project so we can get to it.

But knowing that like and knowing what I can do because it's no one's fault.

Like it's not that like if more people were reading comic books like I think everyone would be excited.

But truly like it's just there aren't enough readers.

The books don't cost the right amount of money quite frankly.

Like they should be like twenty dollars to actually get everyone fed on the book.

Let's be real.

But I'm also not shy like I have a day job.

I work in video games.

I'm not just trying to draw my paycheck from the book because that's where we fell apart.

With Five Ghosts, we made it to 17, but our monthly issues had dropped very low.

So like we were making no money for most of it, but three people needed to live off of that book.

And like, so we were all just mad all the time.

Everyone was broke and like, there was just no world where we could do it.

And again, that is the one regret I had in my career.

I wish I had like dug deep and like found a way to keep it going.

Cause we'd be on like issue 80 by now.

Morgan, I'm sure you want to speak to this as well, because it's just the reality of the market.

Yeah, I'm glad you touched on that because that was also the I listened to your episode with what Todd has said.

ah I know so many creators who want to do an ongoing series.

Everyone.

Yeah, it's not an ambition, but as Frank said, unfortunately, especially in the creator-owned field, it's just a numbers game.

ah you know, comics is pretty niche and there's not a ton of people reading and, you know, people are nervous and people are broke right now and it's just kind of what happens.

And so it's hard to keep the thing going and kind of like how Frank touched on, I think most people realize, but I think there's some people who read comics who just don't understand how much work and how much time goes into making a comic.

You know, that if I'm gonna get, especially in full color, an issue out a month, I am working on, I mean, that is my full-time job.

And by that I mean, it's fine, because I love my job and it's chill or whatever, but I work 60-hour weeks.

Still inhuman.

Morgan is one of hardest working people I've ever met.

I don't know about that, but it's a passion.

And so it's fine.

I love my job.

I have no qualms about that.

But there's no wiggle room there to get like a part-time gig or something to get through it.

And that's what it takes to get an issue out every month.

And that's not even again.

So that's just me working full-time.

I have to make rent and groceries and whatever.

But you know, it's also Frank.

It's also Haas.

It's also Sasha.

It's any cover, know, variant covers we do or any fill-in issues or, you know, already in our editor.

Like, again, everybody is putting their time into this.

It's everybody's job.

And so like Frank said, everybody's got to eat.

And it just, become, it's hard.

either you, if you're a big hit, it can go really well.

But even if you're just kind of a middling success, sometimes for that ongoing money, it can just be a little hard.

And especially I think when times when like comic shops get a little nervous, some of them just has to do with like economic climate, political climate, anything, you know, then they order conservatively and the pre-orders really affect a series longevity.

Um, and so that's, that's a little hard, but I just feel like recently a lot of articles have come out that are like, people only want to do five issue series.

you're like, well, no, you want to do longer, but you know, it's like, it's just a math game.

Unfortunately.

I think people would be shocked to know how many Five Ish and Mirror series were on Greenlit as ongoing at all publishers.

Again, I'm not going to get too crazy at it, but no one wants their book to end early.

it's just such a rough numbers game.

And the one thing, and again, really need to like, so I was talking to David Harper about this as well, as he's always interested in the space.

And I know he's doing a piece soon about a the current market and how it really is for creators.

People also love to point out and be like, it's going great.

It's like, yeah, if you're Batman, like, and again, I think that success does have some trickle down to everyone else, but which is because we're like living in the best, like this is the best comics ever been, in my opinion.

Yeah.

But you, I don't want to cut you off there, Frank, but like, this is like the best comics I've ever been.

And like you said, if you're not writing Batman or Spider-Man, it's like, gosh, it stinks.

And as I said, it's awesome and I'm glad to have people in the store, people being excited.

And I think a lot of more artful, exciting comics, even in the big two, like I think they're taking risks that I would have thought they never would, which is awesome.

But there is like a huge like barrier because people are like, well, if people go in and buy Absolute Batman, they're going to buy your book.

I'm like, there is a hundred steps to get someone who's Absolute Batman to get to.

Again, know, groceries are getting more expensive, is getting more expensive, you know, people just don't have disposable income.

So it's like, they're going to have to choose between the Batman book and the creator on one.

They can't maybe afford to buy both.

And like that is just kind of what it is.

And yeah, and that's why I say it's blameless, because it's easier to sit on like, whoa, is me.

But like, I get it too.

That's why I'm like, oh, we are trying to find people our book directly does appeal to.

And again, I'm so thankful to comic book stores that actually hand sell and really do recommend.

Because again, we've had some who've really helped move our book, which is fantastic.

I think also the, ah it sounds, I don't mean to sound mean, but the fantasy of people just discovering your book on the rack is so hard right now, because effectively, your book is on the rack.

the front rack for one week.

like, even if I'm a monthly comic book store, and even if I'm a monthly comic book goer, like, gosh, am I going to be on the rack the one week that person I think might want my book is there before it gets moved to the back shelves?

And again, bless any store that keeps us on any shelf, but discoverability is just so difficult.

And again, I think a lot of creators have been smart with what they're using, like, and we're trying to get on like different.

TikTok and other places, like it is, there's no easy way.

And it's a problem everyone deals with.

So that's why I don't want to sit here and be like, Oh, no one buys my comics.

like, everyone struggles because like, again, we, you I'm someone who wants more good creator owned work.

And I think we're seeing it, but like, it bums me out that there's like, I don't want to be so pessimistic, say not enough customers to support it all, but I just don't think there's enough discovery methods right now, which is why I'm so thankful that there are great websites out here that are covering tons of books and.

And as I said, I just don't begrudge anybody.

Because I know if I'm also a website owner, if I write an article about Batman, it's going to get X amount of clicks versus if I'm going to run a review of indie book no one's ever heard of, it might just sit there.

I spend a lot of time trying to square that circle of like, how can we do meaningful motion?

Because it's all just about getting our material to the people who I want it to resonate with.

But I'd like to be surprised too, because there are people who I did not think would like our book and would.

So I don't know where this thought ended up.

anyway, it's hard to do creator on books.

We are on- It's actually ongoing.

Yeah, and everyone does want to do them, but like it is why we at least came in with a plan.

And as I said, our plan is not bulletproof.

Like there's a lot of variables, but I at least am not shy about saying like, well, this is the intent.

Like we talked about it.

and that is where.

Well, the thing.

I have a plan.

have a plan for this episode to get the author immortal in more ear holes and eyeballs.

uh I'm just going to say creative team of author immortal says uh book is better than absolute Batman and just see what the clicks do after that.

Yeah.

Well, we'll run with it and people can listen.

I think that'll at least keep people listening and talking.

I'm sure Scott will eat.

Rage Badum, Rage Badum.

I'm trying to be like, what the hell you saying?

Frank, you mentioned this a moment ago.

said somebody mentioned that people who go in and get Absolute Batman, or maybe they'll pick up the author immortal.

I want to meet the person who has Absolute Batman and Author Immortal on their pull list.

That's the only two books they have.

If that's you, I saw a lot of people, mean, at least like with issue one, to give you a shot because as I said, I don't mean to just target absolute Batman, obviously.

think it's most popular books, course.

It's still great.

It is the kind of thing where I knew also with our book, like it would be tricky, especially when we're using the unwritten as a comp.

Like everyone's like, yo man, the unwritten is not a great comp.

No one knows what that book is.

I'm like, well, they damn well should.

But it is the kind of thing where it gets very tricky to just like.

As I said, we didn't want to our whole book away in the solicit, it's been really rewarding to see people read it and discover like, oh, there's so much more here than I thought.

again, or if they're just not familiar with Morgan's work, be like, oh my gosh, now we'll go buy everything that Morgan does.

It was nice that the Twilight Zone issue came out right before the week before our issue one came out too.

it was a good time to be a Morgan beam fad in comic books.

It's funny Frank that you mentioned the unwritten people telling you not to comp that just sorry, it's a story, but there is this really great comic that's called This Was Our Pact.

It's like an all ages sort of adventure comic and everybody in my studio read it.

We all became obsessed with it.

And so everybody, a lot of my studio like, like writer, drawers and work kind of on the graphic graphic novel side.

And so they were sending pitches in for like middle reader books or whatever.

And the comp was always like, oh, this is a story kind of like, this is our pact.

And finally our friend who is an editor had to sit us down at another one of the kind of major like book book publications and be like, yo, stop putting that in the pitch.

That book did not sell.

And we were like.

No one knows what that is.

Yeah, and I was like so upset because this book was so good and she's like it flops stop putting that that I I don't know the creator But I all the time I just want to like send him like a dm or whatever on instagram.

That's like you were robbed But anyway That's also the tricky part of like when I was using Salga as a comp because again, Brian Givoh is my favorite writer.

Like, full stop.

yeah, I know.

I loved your interview with him recently too.

So good, good getting on that.

like.

Thank for name dropping for me.

I appreciate that.

No, it was a great interview.

you have not listened to it, people should go listen.

I feel like what he did with Saga That's So Special is like, people would probably argue with me, but like it is written to be enjoyed every issue.

Like every issue kind of starts with a cold open.

Like rarely do we start on the exact same scene where we ended in last issue.

like issue of Saga feels like a good, like I hate comping to TV, but like a good episode of TV.

And he's really mastered the music.

He says it's like sort of every arc of saga is basically a season of TV, as he says.

And that's what we want to do with the author of Mortal.

I want it to be a book you want to read monthly because you just love it so much.

And the thing I constantly say, and they made fun of me on Comic Book Club, so I need to reiterate or rephrase.

But when I was reading the books I really loved, and when I have books I really like in the comic store, I want to read them in the parking lot, in the car.

I said in the car, and they're like, while driving?

I'm like, god damn it, no, I meant in the parking lot.

But that is my like goofy aspiration like I want you to like our book so much you want to read it as soon as it comes out as I remember I worked at a comics ology when saga was first coming out and We would get the PDFs to like convert to digital files like a week early and like the whole office would be like sagas here and everyone would just shut up and go read the PDF But no, and I think that is the kind of thing of like I don't begrudge anyone for like writing for the trade, so to speak.

I think a lot of fans like to just get trades, but like it has been very top of mind for us.

And again, this is something that I to put absolute Batman in a positive light, because again, I think Scott and Nick are insanely talented people, but Scott is so, so smart and constantly reinventing himself.

And he had said like every issue we want, like a showstopper moment in the comic that people are going to talk about.

And that's not cynical.

That is just smart.

They're writing for the issue.

They're thinking about the unit as a piece.

I think we all need to be doing that more.

And that's really been our 10.

And it's why we have backups now, like starting at issue two, we have backups by uh Kate Case now and Lauren Afey that we come up with the story for because we want to make use of every single page.

Like we want the issues to feel subset why we will again pay a designer, very talented designer Sasha to make our books look cool as physical objects, because we want people to feel good about picking up single issues and not just.

m in game when there's a comic book in the trash.

But it's why we take the care to do that, because we think it's important.

And that's why I love comics.

I love this medium.

I clearly don't do it to get rich.

But I think it is a really rewarding serialized form.

And I love the idea.

And I just love comic book stories still being one of the only places where physical media is so, prevalent.

It's still that old record store mentality.

You walk in and you're immersed with tons of books everywhere.

And I love that feeling.

So that's why I Like being a part of it.

Totally.

I always tell people that the single issue comic is my favorite art object of all time.

It's this little 22 to 32 page artifact of, Morgan, you spoke on this earlier, of these six to eight wildly talented people being paid way too little to do this incredible thing eight times a year, just on that particular series, eight to 10 times a year, whatever it might be.

It's crazy just to hold a single issue.

It could be a big two book.

could be a dark horse book.

could be all of it.

It it blows my mind every time.

And I'm sorry.

I don't mean to go on a tangent here, because I want to go back a little bit.

You this this will probably my final question for you guys here, because I want to give you a moment to sort of brag on Morgan here.

I think I did the same thing to Matthew when we talked to you both about crashing Morgan.

But I want to set up Frank here because, you know, speaking of Brian, we had him on the show.

I couldn't get him to stop bragging about Fiona with Saga.

And he mentioned something in this that You mentioned something in that conversation that I think Morgan does extremely well as well, which is the character acting in the story.

I think that's one of the the um hallmark sort of, what's the word I'm looking for?

It's a good way to just showcase what this book is doing really well.

You could, and this isn't like a slide on you, at all, but you could show someone, a random page of the author immortal and just see the expression on the character's face.

I think that could kind of sell it within itself.

So Frank, let me ask you here.

Outside of the acting, think that's pretty apparent.

We've showcased that here with Morgan and what she does really well.

Is there something else or maybe a couple other things, you don't have to name off a bunch of things, but is there anything that comes to mind immediately that Morgan does extremely well that sort of just reaffirms the partnership and makes you glad that you chose her as your partner or your guys' partnership together?

uh character design and creature design.

feel like Morgan, you remember this, but Morgan had came off a wonderful book called You Belong Here with Sarah Miller that is a kind of YA story in a school and Morgan was like, it was available now, great book, but Morgan was like, holy shit, I really want to draw some crazy monsters.

And I was like, okay, we got you.

And one interesting thing a lot of people don't know going back to just like monthly comics is We don't have like pre-production windows.

I'm not like, okay, Morgan, we're going to do some character designs for the first season of the book.

Let's think about what these creatures it's by the month.

and I even said, cause we were taking our time.

was like, Morgan, do you want some time to possibly do creature designs?

Or like, no, just let me do it.

And, uh as a writer, like, again, I love the craft of writing, but comics is an art show.

Like it is a visual medium.

If the book does not look cool, good luck.

Like, and it's so funny.

And I've said this a few times, like when I write, like I write full script, but like, When I do character and creature descriptions, like I'm pretty loose.

Like with the ink creatures in the first thing, I'm like, ink angels, what does that look like?

And Morgan went nuts with that.

even like with the wizard character, the great wizard, like super generic name, he's meant to just be kind of a kind of like Gandalf replacement.

In my mind, I just saw shitty Gandalf.

And like, I was so glad when Morgan went in there and designed the hell out of me.

looks so unique.

And just the fantasy world in general, I was like, let's make it look unique.

And like, yeah, maybe some writers will get in there and describe brick by brick, but That's all Morgan just doing design work on the fly.

And uh we certainly did not invent the portal fantasy.

And the number one thing I don't like is if people describe my work as generic.

And I feel like we found such unique, cool specificity in this world.

And that's all Morgan's design work.

again, it's on the fly.

Artists have to do this all the time.

I always remember in Five Ghosts, I'm like, there's a crazy airship that looks like nothing we've ever seen before.

And just like, good luck, And Chris did a great job.

like, yeah.

But truly, again, is a generational talent, I say.

So good job, Morgan, you it.

And it's a joy, because again, it's what I love about comics and collaborating with many different artists, because you never know exactly what the book is going to look like, and that scares some people, but that's what I love about it.

I love working with different people, getting to know their silence and ability, and writing towards that, because the only thing that you can ever truly mess up is if you are kind of writing against an artist's strengths, and that just does everyone a disservice.

I think you've just sort of key end on like the number one thing most writer most I'll say like most seasoned writers will will comment on is like you have to write to your artist strengths, you know, find out what they're excited about and put that in the story because that is what they will bring the energy for.

And I'm not saying that more you can't draw things you're not excited about.

I'm sure you have.

But like if you can key in on that, I'm sure it really makes things fun for both of you because not only do you get to make something you really enjoy, but it makes the story that much cooler.

So Gosh, it's been so much fun talking to both of guys here about The Author Immortal.

I really appreciate you both being here.

I do want to sort of end on one final sort of random question, I guess.

I asked you guys to sort of come up with this at the beginning of the conversation.

We like to ask our creator friends, what's something they're enjoying recently?

And that can be, you know, the comic, could be an album, it could be a podcast, it could be just a song, it could be whatever, another book, a television series, whatever.

So Morgan, I'd love to start with you here.

If you could.

What's something that you've just been really enjoying that you want to sort of put on the listener's radar?

Yeah, I'll talk about two things.

The first one being comic related, since it's for rep.

But I just picked up, when it came out, so it was last month, was Roots of Madness, which is an issue one from Ignition Press.

It's a newer publisher.

And it's written by Stephanie Williams, whose work I've liked for long time.

But it was such a great, just kind of creepy, folkloric, interesting issue.

And I feel like Stephanie's work a lot of times has been known for her comedy.

and kind of like goofy light hardness that she does really well.

So it's been really interesting to see her kind of step into this more serious space.

um And the artwork on it is stunning too.

I'm uh going to probably butcher the name, um but it's drawn by Letizia uh Cardonesi.

Very sorry if I screwed that up.

But she, I believe she's done a lot of work for the House of Slaughter too.

ah But her artwork is phenomenal.

So I really enjoyed that first issue and the second issue is out with our second issue tomorrow, I believe.

So I will be picking that up.

And the other thing I've been really loving is a Japanese band called Creepy Nuts.

oh They did the Dan to Dan opening, right?

Yeah.

did the dead end on opening.

They're just like this like weird high octane music that sometimes I joke all the time when I'm coming home.

It takes me a while to get out of like work mode, which you you spend like most of day working like with your headphones on and sort of deeply introspective.

And so like it takes me a minute to like shake that off and be like sociable again or whatever.

But I'll listen to this band Creepy Nuts and particularly have a song called Bling Bang Bang.

And when you put on it's just like this like, I don't know, it just like kind of high dopamine music that really helps me sort of get more in a fun headspace.

So check it out.

I want them to solicit themselves as high dopamine music.

It's funny to hear you say that because I recently have been getting into like Japanese, this is like 1970s Japanese like rock pop.

Oh fun.

And here's the artist, you guys probably know who this is.

I'm probably going to sound like a dumb American by saying this but.

Dude, I sound like the most like New Jersey person on earth when I say anything in Japanese, so don't worry.

I feel you.

Bear with me.

It's Masayoshi Takanaka.

Yes.

Yes.

I feel like I should playing like Mega Man while I'm listening to this music.

It's crazy.

that's what I've been listening to.

Similar as you Morgan, where I'll be like long day at work, you know, and just throw on something to just sort of decompress and, you know, just sort of lose whatever you were messing with earlier in the day.

If you're looking for something quick, I have a vinyl version of it that some company put out, the Hideo Kojima, one of his first games is a game called Snatcher.

That is a graphic adventure.

It's my favorite game of all time.

Quick plug, me and David Brothers wrote essays about it in a new issue of My Friends Magazine.

I love to That's coming out.

Yeah.

the soundtrack is all city pop.

And there's a saxophone on one song and stuff.

It's so good.

So look up the Snatcher OST for a good time.

I'll look that up, uh I'm gonna say comics wise, I finally got a copy of Drone from Jesse Lonergan at New York Comic Con and finally read it.

Looking awesome, like everyone had said.

Beautiful, beautiful book.

recommend everyone gets it.

It came out on 23rd Street, which is the kind of like more adult focused for second line, which I'm really interested in that they've kind of broken in two paths like that, which is very cool to see.

But beautiful book, beautiful edition.

And...

uh Then if you like video games, there's a awesome magazine that is funded through Kickstarter called A Profound Waste of Time that is basically a zine from a lot of different ah just cool journalists and people in games, but they go insanely crazy on the graphic design and just like physicality of the magazine and like their little inserts, beautiful art and just like over designed in the best way.

So like a really indulgent print object.

And I think issue six is funding now, but the five issues that have come out are.

So, cool and beautiful.

what's cool, yeah.

On really good paper.

That's a really like, that's a super niche thing that I'm really, I'm going to look it up as soon as we get off here.

You really keyed in on something I just absolutely love.

We have like a comic version of that called the Comic Courier.

uh It's being created by Tiffy Bab.

No, no, I don't have one but I've seen people to read about it.

It looks awesome because it's on newspaper, right?

Like they actually put it It's a newspaper about comics, journalism.

It's incredible.

ah But my gosh, Frank, Morgan, what a pleasure.

As I said a moment ago, so great to talk to you both here.

We'd love to get you back on to talk about the author immortal, like maybe at the end of this arc or maybe after a couple arcs, whatever.

Please.

It's a drive.

We'd love that, yeah.

And again, I know I just talked a ton, but was like, oh, the time flew by.

I could talk all day.

Maybe I'm the most long-winded man.

But no, again, it's been a joy.

Big fans of the podcast.

And like I said, it's great to be able to talk about this book and a little more of a conversation because there's a lot going on with it.

And again, we hope people enjoy it.

We are fans.

Well, can't speak for everyone.

you can't for all of our book.

I'm into it.

Thank so much for having us.

yeah, thanks I need to get with someone an image and just get the pull quote Chris Hacker the Oblivion bar.

This book is cool, right?

That's it.

That's all you need to That's it.

We're we're that's the end of it.

I can make you a verbal contract right now.

I will put that on the back of the auto portal if you want.

Listen, we have the control of- I will.

Look for the trade in March or April.

can't remember.

I think it's March, but I will definitely pull quote you on that.

You are the first one in.

Yes.

Well, I do want to quickly reiterate to all the listeners here.

First issue, as we said, currently in stores, you can probably find it right now, unless they're completely sold out, which actually first issue was sold out at Milo comic book shop, just so you guys are aware.

So people are loving this book.

I think there's a few left.

I'm hoping we go to a reprint because I know like as a few weeks ago like uh there weren't a ton left at lunar and the variants are definitely out.

again, so please move with speed if you want to grab those.

Make haste for that first issue.

And then the second issue comes out again, we said, November 12th, which at the time of this recording, hopefully this the issue already be out.

So this, know, this conversation, you guys can listen to it.

Really quick, I just want to plug we have a beautiful variant from Raya Hickman.

Oh, yeah.

a really haunting gray variant and then Young.

Who just grabbed the bike, actually.

And a Youngblood variant of all things by Jim Toe who drew Youngblood, which we're so glad gets Jim, and JP Jordan colored it and it's a really cool variant and Sasha did a like faux Youngblood logo and everything.

It's a real fun variant and there were very few of those printed I will say.

So it should also just be a cover price variant too.

It's not anything expensive.

I love that Mimich is doing that, the sort of callback to the 90s stuff.

uh that was a little bit before my time, but I still, I get that aesthetic and love it.

So it's cool they're doing that.

And I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead before I get you guys out of here, I'm going to hand it off to you one last time.

And Morgan, I'll start with you here.

Is there anything that I missed?

Anything you want to plug?

How can people follow you in your career?

All those good things.

So you can follow me these days on social media.

I'm mostly just on Instagram.

So it's just at Morgan beam my full name I also if you were really into the art of author immortal or anything else ah I am selling original art through my rep the artist bullpen.

That's also linked to my Instagram ah Hit me up say hey, tell us you bought the book Yeah, I am mainly on Instagram and Blue Sky these days and at the tag FJ Barb, which is Frank Joseph Barberi, the worst username of all time, but it's the one I went with.

So here we are.

And then I think that'll probably do it.

But like I said, I would love to get not only YouTube back on, but Aaron as well, because I know this is something he would really love and we'll have to do that.

until then, thank you guys so much again.

And we'll we'll talk to you soon.

No, our pleasure.

Thanks so much.