I had a Douglas Wolk, author of All of the Marvels, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Norris.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 201 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

I'm your spineless ruthless scalper who just snagged the last Sandy O'Connicon exclusive Labooboo Chris Hacker and joining me is one of the founding members of the Yancy Street gang, my co-host and BFF, Aaron Nolz.

It's clobberin' time!

They just say that in the cartoon.

I don't even say that.

Welcome back everybody to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

This week, Aaron, we are basically going to be recapping all of our festivities, all the cool things we did in Southern California last week at San Diego Comic-Con.

We saw each other not as much as I'd like to, but it'll be fun to sort of recap that together.

While at the same time, as Aaron sort of mentioned there and sort of, I guess, teased a moment ago, we'll be talking about the latest entry in the MCU, which we saw together there in San Diego.

Peace.

A little teaser.

Yeah.

Aaron, let me ask you before we get into the San Diego talk, before we get into the Fantastic Four, recently did our 200th episode.

We were together in Philadelphia, which is a fun...

Right, right, right.

No doubt, no doubt, no doubt.

We were together, which was awesome.

It a lot of fun.

We released both a great episode together and then also that 200th episode together.

Got a lot of good feedback.

Everyone keeps saying, you know, we should do more episodes together in person.

which, you know, I would say I wish...

We are always looking for.

Or just get us a round trip ticket.

Totally can do that.

Yeah, absolutely.

But really enjoyed that.

And it was fun, you know, kind of to see each other back to back weeks, right?

Because we saw each other in Philadelphia.

The next week we were in San Diego.

And we'll talk about that here in just a moment.

Aaron, I want to pass it off to you.

For that 200th episode, how did that feel?

that like, I don't even know how to properly surmise that moment of doing 200 episodes together.

But do you feel like through that recording, we properly memorialized that moment in Oblivion Bar History?

I absolutely do think so.

To be honest, oddly enough, with us doing it like in your hotel room.

In the cook chair.

in the cut chair, it felt oddly like a therapy session, like an almost illicit therapy session, know, very scandalous, because we're just like in, know, very eyes wide shut about the masks.

No, I thought it was really fun, obviously.

I didn't think that I was gonna get as kind of like caught up in all the thought of everything.

You know, I feel like we definitely went, because generally when you kind of...

Imagine these these episodes like kind of like in your mind you're kind of like planning them out you think This is gonna be just like a fun recap episode We're gonna you know, every time you watch like a recap episode on a TV show It's like these are the fun times laughing laughing laughing But then you always forget about the time where it's like, oh somebody died Or like the shitty times so that's kind of what it was it was like a good way to kind go over the great times of the show the great interviews things that we've loved doing as well as Kind of going over the things that we want to be better at, the things that we want to bring through the show to the audience as well, to the listeners.

And just kind of going from there, like building on that, because we've been building something so special for these last five years, these last 200 episodes plus.

Now is really the time where we're hitting, I don't want to say hitting a stride, but like really hitting, I think, our strengths.

It's becoming really comfortable, right?

Like we found the quality that we really like.

We found comfortability with each other, which is something we talked about in that episode where like, although we have been best friends since 2010, doing a show like this, you think that Aaron and I just pop on a mic and start talking.

You know, one of us does, but you know I'm saying?

Like it's, this is not as easy as this, like, you know, popping on camera and chatting about a thing we like.

Like you think that Aaron and I are going to be conducting a pretty loose, evergreen conversation about San Diego and Fantastic Four.

Hey, spoilers, we're lying to you.

of this, we're like creating a transcript.

We're reading off of that to sort of keep ourselves on track, because if not, we'll get on tangents, much like this intro, because there was no real intro to this episode.

And I just sort of tease it there.

We will be having pretty much just more of an evergreen conversation about San Diego and Fantastic Four.

So I'm going to go ahead pass it over to you real quick before we get over to that.

Why don't you go and tell the folks at home?

Got a lot of new patrons here recently.

Thank you so much for everyone who's joined us.

Tell the folks at home how they can support the Oblivion Bar podcast.

Absolutely.

if you want to support...

Absolutely.

If you want to support the Believe Me Bar podcast, consider checking out the Patreon.

For your support, can...

Patreon?

Patreon?

Jesus.

Do not tell me this is going to be a shit show today.

All right.

For your...

...access to a bonus episode each week called The Grid, a behind the scenes look at how we prepare each episode each week with our episode transcripts, kind of like what we're looking at right now.

You guys get access to that.

Patreon polls.

A whole bunch of other exclusive stuff, again, like the grid, goodies.

Chris is constantly sending out care packages.

We're constantly grabbing stickers and trying to put stuff together to give to you guys.

But you can also give it a free seven day free trial if you want and then see if you like it.

Just dip your toe in the pool.

Patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pot is where you can check that out.

You can check out the link in our show notes.

But again, seven day free trial if you don't want to just jump.

right in like we do.

But honestly, if you haven't had a chance to go back and listen to some of our grid episodes, we put every 10th episode on the main feed.

So if you're uh indecisive, go listen to one of those.

And if it's something you have a good time with, come on in.

That's right.

Water's fine.

Hop in the hot tub.

The water's good.

I will say to sort of build off what you're saying there, we are going to be teasing a big guest we're having on the show here in August.

And again, tentatively, I don't want to like jinx it too much, but we're welcoming on a ton of great guests in August.

But one specifically I have been working on for a long time.

And Aaron, you already know who I'm talking about.

It's someone that I actually met at San Diego for the first time in person.

And we'll be having them on the show mid-August, probably releasing that towards the end of August.

the Patreon members, the programs will know that first.

So once again, as Aaron said, patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod.

So without further ado, let's go and get into our conversation about San Diego Comic Con and Fantastic Four first steps.

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Okay, let's talk about San Diego Comic Con first.

Aaron, I want to pass it off to you first because while we were both there together, as I sort of mentioned in the intro, we weren't really doing the same thing.

I was working comic sketch art, doing the whatnot shows, which I love doing.

You were kind of off working for your normal job, fanable at the time.

You know, you were you were sort of out and about searching and at the time.

Do we do we touch on that?

Should we say anything about that?

We can we can pass it if you want.

not I had I you know, left I'm not gonna say anything negative about it.

I you know, I will say this third job I've quit so far since retiring from the baby, they can't hold you down.

They can't hold me like George Clooney, Yeah, just creative differences and just that, you know, I just, could not, I can't be somewhere where I can't let the, like this mind go where it needs to go.

Yeah, no, you're a peacock and they gotta let you fly.

You gotta let me fly.

And so you know what?

I am incredibly grateful for the opportunities.

ah I got to be on a fucking San Diego Comic Con panel before I know I I told I told several people that I felt bad about that.

I'm Did you get a little sign?

Damn you.

That's why I am mad about that.

Actually.

I want one of those.

I know.

Can we just wipe your name out and mark your mind?

That's racist.

got a white enough name already.

But no, it's, you know, again, I am incredibly grateful for the time, the community that they introduced me to, which is like the digital collection space.

I'm learning so much about it.

And I think, you know, again, there's a lot of opportunity here and I'm just, I'm not going to stop.

I'm not going to stop what I'm doing.

I'm not going to stop working.

I'm not going to stop creating.

And I am excited for what the future does hold.

I've already actually been in some, in some talks with some other projects that deal with, um, you know, technology even that might be even working with the military.

Nerdy technology?

Um?

Nerdy technology or just technology as a broader...

Technology, not necessarily nerdy technology, but technology to help the military overall.

Yeah.

So looking forward to that.

Can't really talk too much about that.

Don't want to jinx anything, but you know what?

Farewell, Fainable.

Moving on.

So long friends and you know, hello to new opportunities.

That's right.

So you were off doing that and I was a working comic sketch artist.

So Aaron, tell me a little bit about, actually let me start off the conversation like this.

What does San Diego Comic Con mean to you?

Like when you're sort of on the horizon looking at this figure that is the San Diego Comic Con venture, know, that second, third week of July most of the time.

What does that convention mean to you?

Because we go to so many of these, but there's something about San Diego, right?

Yeah, to be honest, I think that mostly for me, it's getting to interact with friends and people that are just really not, that may not come to Sandy, or may not come to New York Comic-Con, but to have the opportunity to go there, it is such an exciting opportunity.

It's a little bit overwhelming because the show floor of Sandy and Comic-Con is unlike any other convention that I've been to really where it's just one massive...

floor.

there, mean, there's so much more.

There's the, there's the, the panel spaces on the next floor up.

There's like, you know, there's hall H, which is somewhere else.

Here from every single part of the building.

There's experiences to be had.

There's events, there's parties.

So it's really like, I don't know.

I've always looked, I've always looked at it like this.

So growing up being really nerdy, especially getting into like cosplay and video games and movies.

San Diego Comic Con was always this kind of like elusive like dream, you know, and it was like that is that is if you are a true nerd like that's where you want to be and After having been there this being my second time ah It's not really like that so much for me anymore.

It's it's kind of like dwindled down into this idea of like this is Possibly a place where I'm not gonna see I'm gonna be able to see friends that I may not see it in New York So I got to take advantage of that like a business opportunity you find.

I'm talking about friends, not like creators or artists or anything like that.

That's fun.

For me, I had a great time.

I'll tell you this.

My main mission this time was I took a bunch of posters that I'd been collecting up over the years and I literally took them to the Comic-Con to give to artists because they may not have access to some of these older, I'm talking like Wizard Magazine, old school, like Top Cow.

I gave Top Cow their booth.

It was a really cool crossover with some of the Marvel characters in Top Cow.

There's even like a DC crossover one, some really cool ones as well.

And they were cool, everybody's really cool.

They gave me some stuff back.

uh Stanley Tucci, Stanley Tucci, Billy Tucci, who did Shy and like some of the other like, you know, interesting art.

He was, he's a veteran.

I got to talk to him.

He's actually super interested about coming onto the show also to talk about his career in comics as well.

Yeah, he was like, no, he's like, I've got all these, like, you know, can I, can I just sign it for you?

Cause like, don't, you know, I don't need it, but like, They get a lot of stuff at the show, you know?

They probably inherit a ton of stuff while they're...

do, but my intent with that was we all heard about what happened to Jock and his Detective Comics 880 and the art by I did not hear about this.

Can you elaborate on that one?

I'm not, no, I'm not privy.

Okay, so um Detective Comics 880, as we all should know, is the, it's that really iconic Joker cover where it's like the bats flying off.

it was created by Jock.

Yeah, it's the Black Mirror, a series with Scott Snyder.

Exactly.

So when that went to print, Jock sold that piece of art, the original piece for, I don't know, I think it was like 10 or 12, 10 to $15,000, somewhere in there.

Which is a steal.

Recently, within like the last two months, that piece sold from a private seller, he sold it at auction for $288,000.

And obviously Jock Jacques.

didn't get any of that.

So that's kind of like a hard thing.

And so I was like, you know what, if I can do anything for any creator in the community, maybe I can at least give them some of this old art, old posters that I have that had just been sitting in a box and allow them to sign it, maybe give it to somebody else or maybe frame and keep their own house.

Like I got some cool shit here.

And I was like, it doesn't need to be just sitting around in a box, you know?

So that was my goal.

Yeah.

I will say, I think I've said this leading up to the actual convention.

San Diego is so important to me.

It is just far and away my favorite convention.

You know, I usually go to about three a year.

usually do San Diego, New York, and then some kind of miscellaneous one throughout the year.

This year it was planet Comic-Con in Kansas City, but San Diego is like literally the halfway refuel of the year that I need of like lifeblood.

It gives me that extra oomph each year to sort of keep going that second part of the year.

I absolutely adore it to sort of build on what you were saying there a moment ago.

It is very unique in the sense that like everything is all basically on one floor.

So it is a smaller I say smaller in quotations.

Obviously a large convention.

one of the bigger conventions.

But compared to like in New York or compared to like a C2E2 or a fan expo or an Emerald City Comic Con or even like playing a comic con with multiple levels.

San Diego all one floor.

can basically walk from one side of the floor to the other with, know, if no one's around you, like obviously if you're dodging through neckbeards and sweaty folks, it's going to take you about an was the sweaty guy.

This place was so hot.

I was sweating every second I was on that show floor.

Every second.

So I had a separate sort of experience.

I was freezing.

We had a fan right above the Comic Sketch Art, which I guess, you know, first world problems, you know, in terms of like what you were dealing with.

But I had this fan on me the entire show, all five days.

And I was just freezing the entire time.

But point being is that like San Diego, I wouldn't have to like ruminate on this too much.

It is like just, it's the best.

year, that San Diego Comic Con, every new year, that is my new favorite con.

And I had...

folks asked me about this like, was this year better than last year?

Yes.

And I'm going to bet that next year, 2026, if I have the, uh you know, fortune of going 2026 will be the best comic con I've ever been to.

It is just like, and for everybody who's like never been to San Diego Comic Con, and we apologize if it sounds like we're bragging, I hope that you all get to go at some point.

It is not what you think it is.

Now there is like some entertainment, you know, they release trailers and stuff like I think in the two it was starting to shift more to Hollywood, but like San Diego is still very comic-centric.

Would you agree, Aaron?

Is that sort of your experience as well?

Absolutely, it definitely so I think the kind of the the pre Thought out idea what we all kind of like think that San Diego Comic-Con is Generally is like this nerd Mecca like it's a huge thing But it's not necessarily that much really for the cosplayer or the nerd like there's a lot of people that go to that the show floor is absolutely packed But I really feel like this is this is really a convention for those that just in love with this industry You know and so for me it's like I think if it that if it maybe it used to be like that But I still feel like now there's like this is the con that you go to for like panels This is the con that you go to for like new information on your your your movies or your shows or whatever you hear it from George Lucas who just came this year you hear it from you know Johnny Depp who's working on a graphic novel you hear it from you know the Tron Aries cast over in a Hall H because everybody else is listening to the trailer going around the building and so Yeah, there's just like, there's, there's, it's very industry based.

like, and the other part of it is, I don't know if other, other conventions are like this, but you have a lot of people who want to break into the industry going for like portfolio reviews.

Yeah.

You know?

And so to me that that's, that's not necessarily what a, uh a fan convention.

It's not a fan Expo.

It's not, it is a, this is an industry event at its heart.

And I think that like there is obviously fun to be had and Aaron, we'll talk briefly about like things that we bought.

There's plenty of things to buy.

I feel like every year I lose my ass when it comes to buying things as San Diego.

Like I build a lot of my finances from January to June around going to San Diego and then I'll do the same thing for New York here in October.

But I want to ask you, so let's just sort of briefly going through the days, Aaron, just sort of tell me like, you know, we were there Wednesday to Thursday.

The first day that we saw each other was Thursday, right?

Take me through sort of just like what your general day looked like.

know, again, you were there working.

like, what was sort of the goal each day while you were there?

But to be honest, so like when I was flying in, I flew in on Wednesday, so I left super early from New York.

I landed in Las Vegas.

I had a six and a half hour.

We barely missed it by like 10 minutes, man.

It sucked.

I had to lay over in Las Vegas as well.

But I actually had to do some work.

had to prepare the drop for, which was the fantastic case drop for Fannable.

So I literally sat there and like worked on this drop for like three and a half, four hours.

And then finally ate something, got on the plane and then got to San Diego, got to where I was staying, talked to people that I was supposed to be like working around and working where they're talking to and kind of conforming with like their schedule, but not really.

ah And then I woke up the next morning, obviously convention day, making sure everything's good, making sure I got everything in my little case.

My little backpack, you know.

Everybody just to paint a picture for you.

Aaron was wearing a large backpack that was completely full each day and then was carrying around.

like slightly, it had a good amount of stuff in it that I didn't need the first day.

But it was definitely, yeah, but it was definitely a necessity.

I'm glad I had like snacks.

I'm glad I had like stuff to like hydration.

Cause again, if you are not prepared for the con floor.

Should we talk about that really quickly about preparation for the con?

how you're talking about getting there.

Step one, deodorant.

Yeah, please wash yourself.

Wash yourself.

And here's the thing, I will never be as judgy again because I always, I put on deodorant every single morning and by the end of it, I was like, God.

Well, there's one day you were like, smell I'm like, I don't smell you don't smell bad to me.

So yeah, maybe I don't know.

That was Thursday.

That was Thursday.

I miss your smell, miss your laugh.

But yeah, so deodorant, shower, take care of your feet, know, Lieutenant Dan rule, wear some good socks, you know.

I show you I didn't show you my shoes, dude I literally like I'm not kidding just to fast forward to the flight to the the last day of the Kenton Convention Yep, or no, maybe it have been the day before the last day the convention and then but the day on the flight I literally broke my shoes I Have my my converse which are like one of my favorite pairs are like separating like the I little had to find somebody with super glue at the at the cosplay You know like triage booth to super glue my soul together So don't do it, Aaron.

I bought new shoes.

I bought some on clouds for this weekend.

I bought new shoes.

put the I mean I bought new shoes.

didn't wear the new shoes, but I had I had uh nice like orthotic inserts that I got from the VA.

Yep.

And those were like saving my ass until until my shoes started falling apart, but I was kind of proud of myself too.

Yeah.

So if you're going to, here's like a big thing.

If I can like paint one very big rule for everybody that's listening.

Life's a garden, dig it, happy accidents, all the things.

That was Joe Durr and Bob Ross.

Point being is when you go to San Diego Comic Con, I think with any big con, first of all, come in with a plan, but also expect to not get everything done with that plan.

Right.

You can't do everything.

And if you expect to get everything done, you will overwhelm yourself and you'll be left, you'll feel left without.

like have a plan, but then be adjustable to the point where if it doesn't work out or if you don't get to everything, you're not upset about it.

Cause there's always something to do at these conventions.

Absolutely.

Is there something Aaron that you wanted to do that you weren't able to do at the show?

The only thing I wasn't able to do really was get to get to the Tron Aries store.

Thank you.

That's like, that's probably number one for me too.

I didn't get the vinyl, didn't get the shirt, didn't get to get a picture on the life cycle.

Like I walked by it constantly and every time I walked by it, was completely full.

picture of it, but I did not get to get so like, I managed to talk to this one lady and at the line, she was like, just come back later.

I'll see if I can get you a ticket.

She disappeared.

get a ticket.

And then I went and asked somebody who looked like her and she was like, no, that's not possible.

Get out of here.

Yeah, yeah.

Now if everyone who doesn't know, so the Disney folks or Tron folks, they were giving away these Tron exclusive vinyls that's sort of like in a triangle.

my God.

red triangles that are so badass.

They were limited to a thousand.

So bummed.

They were also these really cool t-shirts that were sort of like holographic.

We're going for like $500 on eBay right now.

And you know, Aaron, we love Tron.

That's like our big thing.

It's so surprising that neither one of us got a chance to get one of those.

But that's how I mean, that goes to show how excited people were for it.

So for me, something I missed out on that I wanted to get but didn't was Ian Bertram had a Mondo Doom poster that was so badass that I could not just like part of me is like glad that I didn't because Aaron, as you know, and I'm sure as the listeners probably know way too many doom things, but specifically way too many Mondo posters that are not in a frame.

So probably best that I didn't grab it.

You do have an obscenely large collection of art that is just not...

Yeah, it's just it's a problem.

It's a curse and it's a sickness everybody, but that's one thing I missed also There was a doom figure it was about 175 at Mondo and it was um, was a very they put out this doom Statue not too long ago.

That was just the normal sort of like on my t-shirt normal looking doom But then they had a variant at the San Diego Comic-Con which was Emperor doom from Secret Wars and like the all-white and then he came with a Thanos skull you from that panel, Arabic panel from Secret Wars.

So I had like Thanos's skull with his spine attached to it and he had like Doom holding it in his hand.

Point being, I didn't get either one of those, I'm probably, my wallet's probably happy that I didn't.

So.

I tried, one of the things I wanted to do and didn't get to do was I tried to get my Biker Mice from Mars uh signed because the artist from the, I think the artist and the writer from the original comic was there and I just, I was not able, but I did get to meet the guys who were bringing back who who did the Kickstarter, who just recently started a Kickstarter for the new SWATCATS comic that is supposed to be coming out, which I am super pumped.

I want to hear, here's a funny story.

I'll make it real quick because I know we want to get to some of this other stuff.

But I'm literally standing in line and they give out raffle tickets and they're like, okay, 1130 be back here for the raffle.

I'm like, cool.

So I run like 30 rows because I was trying to sell some sports cards that I had found some Pokemon cards that I found trying to make some money off of that.

And I picked them up.

Finally, the guy was like, ah, yeah, we can't really buy any of these right now because I figured it's hard to go to.

They probably don't want to buy just like random stuff at Comic Con.

I got to take it somewhere else and see if I can get somebody to be interested into it.

So I was like, OK, good.

That's fine.

No biggie.

Just give me the case.

had to like run back like 30 aisles to get to this one.

I get back, they start the raffle and I'm not kidding.

They are calling every number around me.

Every ticket is going.

They're like, they're basically, they're giving out this, these challenge coins, these SWAT cat challenge coins.

And you know how much I love challenge coins.

I'm not kidding.

They get down to the last coin.

There is, no, they get down the last two coins.

There's two tickets left in there uh and they pull one out and it's not mine.

Wow.

And somebody else gets it.

And I'm like, the funniest fucking thing right now with Hap would be that they pull that last ticket out and it's not mine.

That would be like just tragically humorous.

I would not even be, I would not even be mad.

I would be like, this is perfectly my life encapsulated with like timing and luck.

Cause Chris, you know, whenever we played Pokemon, I never played anything with like a luck component to it.

I was so bad.

Luckily they pulled the last ticket.

It was mine.

I got the last coin available and I'm just like, thank God.

So I walked away with that and that was the greatest thing, but I didn't get my signature.

So that's sad.

Well, so sort of keeping on with the daily venture of it all.

Wednesday, you were off doing your thing there.

On Wednesday, I had two what not shows, one with God Tale, who's an awesome new sort of newer artist in comics.

then another book.

Actually, both of these folks are sort of manga first and then have come over to American Comics.

God Tale was that.

And then also Satoshi Shiki, who is sort of making the venture over to comics here soon.

I heard you might have set some records.

We did.

I'm not going to put a number on it because I don't want to be tacky and honestly I don't know if Comic Sketch Art wants to talk about this but San Diego Comic Con was our highest amount we've ever sold.

And I've been doing this for five years everybody.

So this is a very big year and honestly I will say that Ryan Ottley was the big reason for that.

He had a lot sold at the beginning of his first show which was on Thursday.

Like we sold more in his show on that Thursday than we've sold in some of the smaller shows before.

All all encompassing.

So that helped a ton, but yeah, it was a very, very successful show.

moving on to Thursday though, the day we of course saw each other for the first time, a couple of creators that I got to see, I got to finally meet Matt Edmonds, who is awesome.

He did a Council of Frogs.

I also picked up a couple of his, some of his like ines and such, like he has one that's called Those That Inherit the Earth, Trial Plus Error, Daystar, and The Winter King.

So if you guys aren't familiar with Matt Edmonds, I say go look him up right now.

We'll have him on the show at some point.

I already tried to basically weasel him into coming on the show very soon.

I also got to see a good friend of the show, Zach Morris.

I'm over there in San Diego.

Did you him by the bell?

No, not that one.

I also got to meet one of my newer favorite artists, Alfredo Cardona.

I actually got a bunch of original art from him.

I'll show you Aaron, obviously the listener can't see this, I bought an 11 by 17 Psylocke, all pencils.

And then I bought a Bangus inspired Dr.

Doom from like Marvel versus Capcom 2.

So sick.

He had an entire roster of those.

And I of course had to buy the Dr.

Good one.

Go look up Alfredo Cardona on Instagram.

This guy is going to be, I'm talking like Peach Momoko levels of surgeons in the next couple of years with Alfredo.

is not only is he awesome, but he is insanely talented.

And I think most importantly, Aaron, he's very, very quick.

not gonna lie, like I know you, like you know this, I'm not gonna lie about getting emotional and something.

When I got my first commission ever from Mirka, I literally almost cried because it was so amazing.

It was my first commission piece ever.

When he pulled this out and handed it to me, same emotion.

this is incredible.

This is like something you would see.

Like this, for what I paid for it, is insanely amazing.

The fact that he did it so perfectly around the DC bullet print.

The bullet logo and just again the Batman and the background with his shoulder.

This is incredible work I am definitely getting this one.

This one absolutely graded for like no joke.

Absolutely.

And I already told him I am buying a She-Hulk blank because I want him to do a She-Hulk for me because like he just is incredible Does he does he does I mean he does this Batman so that was the thing Chris actually texted me the night before that I went to go Like look for an artist because I was like, hey, I got this Batman or this DC all-in special number one I'm like, who am I gonna get to sketch this?

Yeah, I had no idea no idea and you know Chris you sent me the the you're like, hey You should check out this guy.

You should check out Alfredo.

I was like sure so that day the next day I went over headed started looking at him and I'm like, oh wow, like he does women very well I was like, but I really want to get a Batman on this And I just I went for it and because I trust you like and I and I tell people this all the time I tell people this all the time if you ever if you ever want to know who's gonna make it big as far as the next big artist talk to Chris because I Could I mean it's I he may say that he doesn't know but there the proof is in that collection of art that he has because multiples multiples are done by artists that were like charging like I'm going say this like Peach Momoko, $50 for a little sketch of Toby holding an Infinity Gauntlet and look at her now.

And there's other, you cannot tell me there are not other examples of what you've chosen, of who you've chosen.

I mean, it obviously comes from a place of being a fan and like I see these folks on social media.

I'm like, wow, they're so talented.

I hope they make it big.

And then like the business eventually figures it out and they do eventually become big.

And I don't want to pretend that I'm like some editor like in the making.

I know I'm like I'm like, saying these creators into becoming, you know, extremely popular.

But yeah, I mean, it has happened a little, you know, it has happened here and there.

And I'm just happy for the creators that I've been able to buy stuff from, know, there are three people I think you should keep your radar everybody.

Keep on your radar is Jesse Lonergan, Alfredo Cardona and Rachda Lin.

Those are your three people that I think will be big time.

I mean, I already think that Jesse Lonergan is getting his flowers now, but I think Rachda and Alfredo are going to be big time in the next two to three years.

They're going to be able to pick any variant they want to pick.

But I want to move on here a little bit, Aaron.

Let's move on.

You know, let's go a bit quicker here even because I want to get to Fantastic Four.

Thursday we went to go see Fantastic Four, the movie that we're going be talking about today.

We went to go see it at a private showing.

We'll actually talk about that during the Fantastic Four, so we'll hold off on that.

But Friday, anything happen major on Friday that you want to talk about?

When was your panel?

Was that Thursday or Friday?

was Thursday night, five to six p.m.

It went amazing.

I had such an awesome like rest of the weekend simply because of the feedback that I got from everybody who was at the panel or on the panel with me.

Got to sit next to Jake McFarland, got to talk to the Funko people, got to talk to, again, McFarland toys, Funko, Pudgy Penguins, which apparently is not exactly what I thought it was at all.

Dave Stamberger was on that panel as well.

Yeah.

He added the story.

distillery, what is it called?

Ichiban, Nichiko Ichiban.

the neon ichiban or something like that.

And then the other one was David Yoon from Vivi Collectibles, is just like that company is like disgustingly rich, which is awesome because I got to have, we got to do a post panel dinner after the con and it was just incredible getting to sit down with all these people and brainstorm and talk to them, you know, and I've been emailing actually with a few of them and messaging with them on Twitter.

So it's just been incredible.

yeah, like, you know, hopefully those, those networking.

Options like will turn into something that'll be really cool because I plan on doing some more stuff in this space But yeah, I mean really honestly Friday So really the rest of the weekend for me was again just meeting up with people that I enjoy seeing I went and saw, know David Desmalchian doing a panel about his new book through and then You know hung out, you know, Leah Kilpatrick saw her went by and saw uh Caitlin Nash over at Dark Horse Good friend of show, Kaelin got a book signed, I took like three books for one of the guys in my community or in the community of the fanable community and got, know, Hayden Sherman to sign uh two books and then Jeff Lemire to, no, I'm sorry, Hayden Sherman to sign one book, Jeff Lemire to sign two books.

Met up with the Supple Boys.

Oh, I got to see Griffin and Ethan.

Yep.

to see Griffin and Ethan had a great conversation with them in the IDW line.

one of my Godzilla books signed.

Yeah, just again, it's all about like running into people saying hi.

You know, again, all the artists over there, Scott Snyder, uh know, Capullo, ah Pinochian, like all those guys are just amazing people.

uh Ottley, obviously, you know, um I even messaged...

uh Michelle Ryan's wife, because I was like, why have you not been in any show?

She's like, ah, you know, I'll be probably in New York Comic Con.

you know, just excited to see her.

Like, again, it's just all about making friends in this community and talking to people.

I love it.

Yeah, comics is a small world everybody.

know probably people listening to this know that.

But Friday I went to the Eisners with Brad and Lisa Gullickson, good friends of the show, book couples counseling.

Nerds.

Also Lance Watkins from the comic book, sorry, comic book keepers.

Also, Jeremy Snow and then up and coming artists who I think will also be a big time.

Iman Winkle.

We all went to the Eisners together and that was a ton of fun.

Then we went to karaoke that night saying, all American rejects gives you hell.

It went over really well.

The crowd loved it.

Here's, I'm just going to list through some of the creators that I actually hosted a what not show with over the weekend.

So the folks I already mentioned, plus Rach Delin, Mitch Garrods was a lot of fun.

I got to talk to Trad Moore.

I didn't do a what not show, but got to hang out with Chad Moore for a bit on Friday.

So that was amazing.

Got a really cool print from him.

Just one of my all time favorites.

Everybody don't know if anyone knows this, but Trad Moore, an all timer for me.

Got to hang out with Timothy Zahn, a writer of a lot of the Star Wars novels from the 90s, did a what not show with him.

Got to hang out with Kurt Pearce, who we found on the show, good friend of the show, also just good friend in general.

Got to have drinks with him that night.

Got to hang out with uh Brett Bean.

Got to see Brian K.

Vaughn.

I got to go to his panel as well, which was amazing.

Got to see Sean Egger, the marketing director over at Distillery.

He was awesome.

Dan Panosian, like you said, got a whatnot show with him.

He's one of the coolest folks in comics.

Aaron, you know that I like to bring my blank Superman cover to each show.

Who'd you get?

It was Brett Bean.

he was.

nice.

For everyone who doesn't go look up Brett Bean, he's got a very like.

sort of Scotty Young style.

also did, he did, I Hate Fairyland.

Got to hang out with Michael Schwartz, who had a booth right across the way from us with Clover Press.

I mean, I mean, the list goes on and on.

It was, was just so much fun.

We actually got to hang out on Saturday night, Aaron, is that correct?

Yeah, we got to hang out on Saturday night.

Got to hang out with Kenny Myers, Soon to Be, one of our favorite people in the world.

Keep an eye out for Sweet Shop, everybody.

Very excited for that.

So yeah, let's sort of end the conversation about San Diego.

I'm talking about Top three things that you bought or possibly saw at the show or just experienced like just give me a top three overall things of San Diego.

Really, honestly, the biggest thing was this blank, getting this commission done.

Alfredo.

Yeah, from Alfredo.

I got my Batman Spawn, my personal edition.

I got that signed by Frank Miller.

Amazing.

That was such a pain in the ass.

then, Frank Miller, it's such a pain in the ass to get it.

Like, I had literally hours to wait.

And the other thing was I got my two M.

Bison books that I got, signed by David Del Smoshen.

Everyone David Dossbosch is gonna be Bison in the upcoming Street Fighter book.

I'm be kidding.

Yeah, I decided just to like, you know, get ahead of the game and get it done.

know, And then the other thing was, you know, I had to get this is my my John Boy Meyers Battle Beast number one that I pulled from the blind bag.

was the one book that I want the one cover I wanted from the blind bag and I got it.

And I took it to John Boy Meyers, his booth, because I apparently has the same booth every year.

But last year or the last time I went, which was twenty twenty three, I had no idea, I guess, who he was and I didn't see his booth.

But that was that was cool.

I got to talk to him, had a really good conversation with him.

However, he did because this is a one in one hundred.

He did charge one hundred dollars to sign it.

Yeah.

It wasn't actually I went back because I was like, you know what?

I thought about it because I thought about it.

I got Ryan.

Where else am I going to get this like double signed?

You know, and I figured like if I do if this again, I'm learning about investment because that's what that's what you have taught me about some of this art and things like that is this obviously is a huge thing like anything that Ryan Ottley these guys put the invincible universe put their name on.

It's going to be huge.

This is a one in one hundred.

There's going to be probably not too many of these that are going to get Graded and double signed and so down the if I decide to sell it It'll be just worth that much more because of the you know of the incentives and who knows maybe I'll even be able to get somebody else to do it But I'm not too worried about I got the two signature on I want and that was really about it Never fucking run into Kirkman man I have like like never like you got to run to Alex Ross one time and that was like I never get to run in anybody I never get to run anybody that I intentionally need to run into like Todd McFarlane How the fuck am I supposed to get this book signed by Todd McFarlane?

You stand in that line, like very similar to your Frank Miller situation for both those guys.

If you want to get signature from Kirkman or McFarland, prepare to.

Also, rule, another rule everybody, bring one of those like makeshift stools that you can like sort of put over your shoulder because when you're standing in line, can, you can sit, you know, there's like.

it was was 60 bucks on Amazon I bought a it was it's a it's a rolly cart like a basket That it's collapsible so you can travel with it But the has a seat that put pops on the top perfect and it can hold up to like 350 250 pounds So I was like boom done.

I didn't get here till the day that I left and I had left at 6 a.m.

Mother That Okay, top three things that I got.

So while waiting in line at the Image booth to see Brian K.

Vaughn and Marcos Martín, good friend of the show, he's been on the show, he's the VP of development over Image Comics, Jim Viscardi, he goes, hey, take this.

And he handed me, Aaron, a brand new hardcover of Brian and Marcos' Private Eye, which is an incredible book.

Oh, cool.

He just handed it to me and said, hey, here you go.

And then obviously Brian and Marcos both...

signed it as well.

that was really, really cool.

And also just like getting to hear Brian talk for an hour during his panel, he revealed the cover for the saga, hardcover volume four, which is incredible.

Very excited for that.

Just getting to see Brian again was really awesome.

Just, you know, he's my all time favorite.

Trad, speaking of all time favorites, getting to meet him and getting to shake his hand and buying that print and getting to chat with him for like 30 minutes, not even 30 minutes, that's too long.

But I will say, Aaron, you know, when you're like standing in line to see a creator and you've got these people who were just stand there and chat forever with the creator.

And I don't blame the creator at all.

I'm listening to, I'm talking to the fans here.

Fans, if you're listening, don't stand there and talk to the creator for 30 minutes.

Okay?

That being said, do what I say, don't do what I do.

I sit there and talk to Chad for like probably 15 minutes.

And I felt so bad afterwards, but we were having a great conversation and it was, it was sort of, it was like talking to Jesus.

It was, it was like magical.

felt.

I was floating.

was on one knee, but I was floating in the air everybody.

So that was really cool.

And then like I said, the Alfredo Cardona two originals that I got, plus the Ratchadlin Pokemon that I'll, I posted pictures online if everybody wants to see that.

The Pokemon jam piece that I'm getting from Ratchadlin, all the original art, I'll just say broadly, original art that I bought, absolutely just so phenomenal.

Just loved all of it.

Very, very close, Aaron, to buying a second Usagi Ojembo from Stansakai and held off.

So cooler heads prevailed, I will say.

Yeah, I definitely like I said, I'm excited and I love everything that I've that I got to bring home.

I actually wanted to while we while we get ready to transition into the review of Fantastic Four, I want to open this keepsake edition invincible comic con exclusive blind box.

Live, live on, what are they Unboxing, uh a pack rip.

Yeah look at an ASMR type thing.

One hand number exclusive card for Pac, season one premiere edition.

here we opened that up.

will say a couple of people I missed off Hayden Sherman was somebody that also interviewed jock speaking of got to interview him.

Bill gets Evilly and Matt Lopez got to interview both of them on whatnot.

So all of them were absolutely wonderful and just so cool to hang out with.

So I'm so jealous that you got to hang out with Bilkis because just, again, I was, I wanted to, I actually, you know, that's another thing.

I got to speak to uh Mitch about, you know, about Mr.

Miracle and the woman of tomorrow.

But yeah, point being, like, loved it.

Had a great time talking to them.

is the best.

He's such a nice guy.

And I love his passion, how much he loves his kids and like, buying Pokemon stuff for his kids.

I just follow social media.

I'm still up.

I finally got the little tag off.

Okay.

Now explain how you got this pack here.

Yeah, so I basically stood in line and had to stand in line, spin a wheel to open it.

I'm hoping I'm actually not opening the wrong one, but fuck it if I am.

Let's see.

Oh, I got a 67 out of 100 CC3 Adam and Eve.

Okay, so it comes with like an axe.

Is this graded or is it plastic?

Yeah, it's like, you know, like all these companies are doing it.

So it's like they're it's character laser sine graph the season one something Adam Eve.

It's like, yeah.

worth it to open that live on the show.

All right, moving on to San Diego Comic Con 2025.

Absolutely incredible.

Just a wonderful time.

Again, it just refills my lifeblood and I look forward to it every single year.

And it's incredible.

Aaron, anything last, any last things you want to say about San Diego before we move on?

uh Really?

I'm just, you know, I had such a great time.

I wish that, yes, I wish that you and I got to hang out more.

My biggest regret is us not getting to hang out more.

It's mostly like the biggest thing behind that is just that you and I are like we are like this time was different because we were there on like a mission I had to do work while you were working the entire time So that's just like normally like last time I say like normally other cons I'm just running around constantly bothering you but I'm trying to come back to you in the midst of me working and like you're working doing shows and stuff So it's just like, know, just didn't work out.

Unfortunately That's all right.

We'll figure out a method here soon.

ah OK.

Let's go and move on to our conversation about Fantastic Four First Steps.

Alrighty, let's talk about Fantastic Four First Steps.

Spoilers ahead, if you have not seen Fantastic Four First Steps, please pause this, go watch the film, and then come back.

This is gonna be pretty loose evergreen conversation about the film.

Aaron, initial thoughts on Fantastic Four.

Pretty good.

Better than expected.

you were expecting something not as great.

Why is that?

Is it just sort of how you're feeling about the larger MCU or is it just specifically?

I think with the kind of reception of Thunderbolts, I was kind of worried because people are like, this is the greatest thing since Endgame.

This is the greatest thing since the Infinity War saga.

Not true.

So, you know, I was like, if that's where they're basing their excitement at, I am not prepared for how bad Fantastic Four could be.

uh But again, you know, for me, a lot of the time, I'm always worried about...

movie kind of being a little bit too predictable and generally that's like a worry for me in a lot of cases with with film but this was not this is not that way like a lot of things I was hoping it or thinking we were gonna see we didn't see Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm starting to go to these films for the cliches and the characters.

But I will say that, like, I really wanted this to be amazing.

And although, you know, Superman was my most anticipated film of the year.

I know, Aaron, you know this, the listeners probably know this, the guy currently wearing a Dr.

Doom shirt and the guy with the Silver Surfer tattoo on his arm.

One of this one of this movie just stick the landing.

Of course.

Right.

That makes sense.

But I mean, the truth is, First Steps is sometimes inspiring.

sometimes surprisingly cheap looking, pretty charming, but mostly just a fine Marvel movie.

And Aaron, you know my gauge of rating is fine or fun.

And this was fine.

It was fun.

was actually, I would say it was like kind of fun, but mostly fine.

In the Chris rating barometer, right?

Yes, it was, it was, I want to say for, for lack of a better word, it was slightly better than innocuous.

You know really bums me out about this is that the average at bats from Marvel are just becoming more frequent.

And the days of phase two and phase three and I mean, those seem like an eternity away from where we are currently, right?

Like we're like, we were getting repeated bangers and like every once in while we get a pretty average one.

even like, I would say those average ones kind of feel like this fantastic four one.

And I want to like fully, like a large disclaimer here for everybody.

I had fun with it, right?

Like I've seen it twice.

Aaron will talk about when we saw it in San Diego, Olivia and I went to go see it two days ago at the Alamo Draft House here in Indianapolis.

And I remember thinking like, I liked it a lot more the second time around when we went to go see it there in San Diego.

I was left maybe slightly demoralized a little bit by it.

Maybe.

But I think it's like, I think that's where I'm at now.

And I think this is important for people to remember and maybe adapt in your own sort of movie going experiences that go see a movie twice.

If you feel like.

a movie that you're really excited for just didn't hit stick the landing.

Go see it again, you know, or wait till it comes out on Disney plus or on streaming or what have you and watch it again before you really make your mind up.

Because had we had a review right after that first one, I'd be tearing into this movie.

I think maybe you wrongfully.

Right.

But I think this movie is pretty fun.

think it I think it hits all the beats that it was trying to but not like in a home run way.

Right.

Like the way Superman, we saw the cracks in the wall.

Right.

We saw the issues, but like The parts that hit, it hit really well.

And it hit with that like triumphant, incredible score, like that Superman, dun, dun, dun, like it hit with that kind of level of gravity.

This, I feel like it mostly hit more than missed, but it felt all sort of milk toast through the Marvel machine type of, right?

You know what mean?

Like it just kind of felt like, I don't know.

Well, I guess we'll, maybe it'll reveal itself.

I feel like I'm spinning my wheels a little bit and maybe I'm not properly.

articulating what I had problems with.

I think, I mean, that's the problem with something that's slightly, again, just above innocuous.

Like it's not, it's hard to complain about something that wasn't terrible, but it's hard to also like, it's hard to celebrate something that wasn't as spectacular as it could have been.

Right.

We should approach these things, I think, from fans.

Again, this is a comic book podcast overall.

Obviously, we talk about movies and television and video games, anime and a bunch of other stuff.

But I think at its core, we really center a lot of our conversations around superheroes and comic books and things like that.

So it's important that we approach this with a certain level of nuance and go, yeah, I love the Fantastic Four.

I love Silver Surfer.

I love Doctor Doom.

But I love those characters in the comics to automatically attribute those that love to those characters in this movie, I feel would be a disingenuous approach.

It would be excusing an average film for being average.

And I don't want to do that.

we'll get into it more here.

Aaron, go ahead and talk about the summary here.

Again, if people are listening to this, they probably know what the movie is about, but just for the layman, let's do the summary.

Set against the vibrant backdrop of the 1960s inspired retro futuristic world, First Steps follows Reed Richards, Sue Storm, Johnny Storm, and Ben Grimm as they face their most daunting challenge yet.

Forced to balance their roles as heroes with the strength of their family bond.

While the world loves them, they must now defend Earth from a ravenous space god Galactus and his enigmatic herald Silver Surfer.

I like should be doing that bum bum bum bum in the background as you're doing that.

Again, we sort of tease it a moment ago when talking about San Diego, but let's talk about when we saw the film.

We went to go see it on Thursday at the Ultra Star Cinema in San Diego.

What did you think of that theater first off before we get in the movie?

It was kind of run down a little bit, right?

Like, not run down, but it just was not updated.

It felt like a movie theater from the 90s.

It felt like, honestly, it felt like somebody's theater in their home.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I could see that.

But we did get to see it with like all of the comic sketch art.

Yeah, a bunch of artists like, Shermo's there.

That's Snyder.

Yeah.

uh Williamson.

Zahn.

He was there.

Mitch Garrett.

Most of our big artists for Comic Sketch Art were there that night.

was really cool to sort of see the movie with them.

Aaron, this is the 37th film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

I don't know why we keep keeping track of that, but we do.

And this also commences Phase 6.

So this is gonna basically lead right into Spider-Man brand new day, which is eventually gonna lead into Doomsday.

Have we talked, have they talked about what brand new day is supposed to, cause like I recently, I didn't even know that that was the, was the new title for it.

It is.

Yeah.

So it's basically the next it's the start of the next trilogy for Tom Holland, which of course, but I think this is supposed to take place in between Doomsday and Secret Wars.

That's my understanding.

But it's not going to directly attribute whatever's happening in Doomsday because I don't think Spider-Man is going to be appearing much in Doomsday.

OK.

So and again, we shouldn't.

Yeah.

I mean, we don't really know what Doomsday and Secret Wars is about.

We can guess.

Yeah, we're in such weird territory right now, you know, because like we're in a place right now where a lot of our our favorite mutant not mutants our favorite like superheroes Yeah, we have no idea what their status is like and if we do it's it's it's Where the fuck is worse Wongers?

Yes, where are the Eternals man?

Like I'm wondering right now like like just my biggest my biggest thing right now is like, okay So you got Spider-Man.

You got Dr.

Doom.

You got all these characters coming up.

But right now we're in a place where no other Spider-Man has gone this long as Spider-Man.

Yeah, yeah, Tom Holland is officially, I'd say, longest 10-year Spider-Man, right?

So it's like there's like all these things that are just like it's such like I'm uncomfortable.

I don't know what to feel I don't know where to look I put my hands so like that's that's how I feel like that's why I'm constantly taking notes now because like I feel like I am losing track yeah of where these stories are going and I'm that it's become a Different concern not it not it not the a new concern but not also like on the stack of concerns not a pile of concerns Yeah, but there's just this like annexed concern about are we losing the singularity, are we losing our place?

I Marvel has lost the plot.

They lost the plot during COVID, I think.

And that's why you feel so disconnected.

That's also why.

When we lost King!

That's definitely something but from my understanding and again this just could be PR spin Kevin Feige has come out and said that like they were going to drift away from Kang regardless He was gonna be a bigger part of this Marvel of like doomsday when they change the name from doomsday They were going to keep Kang as part of the story, but then the stuff came out about you know The actor who was playing Kang at the time.

Should we say his name?

Why not?

don't know Okay.

Yeah Jonathan majors, you know, he has been I think exonerated for most of it if not all of it but like, think he's done with the MCU.

Point being is that it feels disconnected, right?

Like leading up to Infinity War, it all felt like it was all leading to Thanos.

Right now, we just, mean, spoilers for the end of this film, we're seeing Dr.

Doom for the first time, kind of, at the end of this movie.

You know what mean?

oh That was kind of annoying.

Well, yeah, we'll get to it.

like, yeah, that's like the one of the most annoying things ever is that like this larger threat that we've been leading to we have not seen yet.

So how can we even care at that point?

Let's think back really quickly in the Infinity Saga.

We had seen Thanos at the end of Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy Avengers and Age of Ultron.

And then we saw him, I guess, kind of at the end of Thor Ragnarok, but not really.

We saw a ship.

But point being is that like we knew the threat was coming.

And not to mention, we know the Infinity Stones are like the larger goal for Thanos and his quest, right?

So what is the quest of Dr.

Doom?

I mean, we didn't, we don't have to noodle on this too long, but I'm just curious, like from your perspective, as the stories currently stands, what we know without looking at like spoilers, cause those are out there.

What is Dr.

Doom's larger goal going into doomsday?

We already know.

I already know.

What is it?

Is it a smooch from Sue Storm?

No, it's power.

It's power.

Like he found out like he probably so first off, we'll get in this again about about Fantastic Four.

We don't know because the entire time they're showing like the UN, all the seats are full except for Latveria.

Right.

Latveria is not there.

Is that supposed to be Dr.

Doom's seat?

We don't know.

I don't know.

But like we just know that Latveria is not there.

Then we finally see Dr.

Doom in the in the post credit or mid credit scene and he's talking to Franklin Richards because obviously Everybody in the world now knows that this kid is important for some reason to a cosmic God, a cosmic entity.

Okay.

We also know that Dr.

Doom, because of what battle world or whatever it was, wants the power from, from Galactus.

So now we know there's a connection between Franklin Richards, Galactus, and Dr.

Doom wants that power.

So now he's going to be trying to do whatever he can to either figure out how to get that power out of Franklin or how to get to Galactus to get that power from him to make him stronger.

So that's the fucking plot.

Are we under the assumption that when Dr.

Doom steals this power from Franklin, which I mean, we could, it's safe to assume that that's what's going to happen and that's how he's going to sort of achieve his emperor doomness, his God, God, God hood or whatever.

Is that going to essentially make Franklin a normal kid or cause like in the comics, he is like Omega level.

We'll talk about it here in a bit, but like he is Omega level.

He's actually a mutant in the comics.

I don't know if he is in this universe.

I don't know if they're going to touch on that, but like he, Franklin is often like being sort of torn from the Fantastic Four and the X-Men of them trying to like, the X-Men trying to like, hey, come over here to our side because you're a mutant and you're Omega level, come help us.

But like, I don't know.

I'm just I'm trying to like, again, I'm spinning my wheels here trying to figure out what's going on.

But I don't know.

At the end of this film, when we get to the end of this film, of course, the team, the family, they they saved the day from Galactus.

He falls into a pit.

We're jumping right to the end immediately.

And of course, Shawla Ball sacrifices herself to make that happen.

Now.

Let me ask you this really quickly before we get into everything.

Do we think that Charlotte Ball is done?

Is there silver?

She exploded.

We didn't see a body.

You know, that's the golden rule, right?

Two rules in movies.

If you don't see a body, they're not dead.

And you got to have a scars guard.

This movie failed at both.

All right.

So do we think that Charlotte Ball is gone and that we're to get Noren in the 616 universe?

I mean, we're going to get Noren in the 616 universe, but Shawla Ball is definitely not done.

Okay.

Interesting.

All right.

Yeah, I think I would tend to agree, but I don't know, you know, right?

I will say that, you know, this takes place on Earth 828, which I thought was a really cool reference that of course is a reference to Jack Kirby.

His birthday is August 28th.

So that's amazing.

I will say really quickly in the opening scene, Aaron, you see them fighting this sort of larger monsters, sort of scaly monster.

That's Giganto.

That's obviously an homage to the first cover from 1961.

I was gonna say, I love the fact that you put uh this cover.

Like, so when you guys go and look at the show notes, ah I'm sorry, sorry, the trans, when the, our Patreon members, when our programs go and look at our transcript on Patreon, they're going to see that Chris used like a facsimile version of the original art.

And this one is by Alex Ross, which is just so gorgeous.

Like again, the original is obviously iconic, but like Alex Ross is just, I don't know.

There's just.

There's nothing beautiful that he cannot make.

We're big Alex Ross stands on this podcast.

Yes.

Yeah as we are Jack Kirby as well Which again, I Jack Kirby did that original cover and it is incredible I will say giganto is one of the monsters that's controlled by mole man who we meet in this movie and actually was created by the Deviants who we last saw in the internals That's interesting.

I didn't know he was created by the deviants.

knew he was like a like kind of like not necessarily a partner but like a kind of like a you know, a mole man monster.

Yeah, yeah.

Just a quick rundown, Aaron, very quickly of a couple of rogues that we get referenced in this movie.

We've got Puppet Master.

We've got The Wizard, Diablo, Red Ghost, who was supposed to be played by John Malkovich, but and also wasn't that initial teaser, but has been since scrapped.

John Malkovich cannot get in a Marvel movie.

He was trying to be Vulture in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies.

That didn't happen in Spider-Man 4.

He's trying to be Red Ghost for some reason in this universe.

That didn't happen.

We got to see one of his monkeys.

or apes, guess at the beginning of the- We get to see Red Ghost's ape, his super ultra smart ape, but we didn't see John Malkovich.

Weird.

Mad Thinker is referenced in a newspaper as is Dragon Man.

So a lot of early, like these are all rogues from like the first 10 issues, 10, 15 issues of Fantastic Four, which I thought was really cool.

And I think like, if I can brag about this movie for a second, the aesthetic I really like.

I kind of wish they would do maybe one more movie of them in this like 1960s.

I'll compliment it.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Would you like them to do the incomplete movie or would you like them to do the movie that transitions into?

Yeah, that's interesting.

think that I like that.

I like them like maybe starting continuing on in this 828 universe and then some point they get pulled into the 616 universe like they do at end of Thunder.

That's what we were thinking was going to happen.

You know, that's the interesting thing about this is we thought that at some point in this film, they were going to be introduced into...

So you were right.

mean, essentially you're right.

Because as of right now, the timeline won't match up with the ending of the Thunderbolts unless there's like a really like weird time, timey-wimey like situation going on, you know?

would imagine that Doctor Doom takes Franklin there.

This is my new guess.

Doctor Doom, Victor takes Franklin, teleports off into 616.

I would imagine to find...

Actually, let me back up a little bit.

Galactus, the end of this movie, gets pushed into the 616 universe.

I think that's what happens.

So, Doctor Doom takes Franklin, captures him from that moment with Sue Storm, takes him to the 616 universe, and then absorbs the power of both Galactus and Franklin and uses that to make Battleworld.

Yes.

So that's my new guess.

We'll if that comes to fruition.

I like that.

So I was complimenting the movie a moment ago about the aesthetics, the 1960s sort of neo-futuristic space age look.

Here's the thing.

I wish they would have just stuck with the 1960s space age look.

There's too much like unrealistic, futuristic tech.

Like it sort of defeats the purpose of doing this movie in the space age.

I get it that Reed Richards is super smart and he uses the future foundation.

like in the comics to sort of create a better tomorrow.

Like he's doing like a Tomorrowland, everybody, trying to like do Epcot.

But I just, I don't love like the everybody's got a flying car, you know, that sort of takes away the fun that the Fantastic Four.

The cops do, they were floating all along.

They're looking for criminals.

Well, that was probably the police maybe like law enforcement, but I loved it.

I'm gonna argue with you.

I loved it I love the aesthetic of this this again.

Yes, Tomorrowland like futuristic retro, know technology I thought it was because to me that's okay You know Reed Richards much better than I know his character and for me I guess my only question is I always thought that he was more of a Rhythm with the tism like I know everything not going to help like humanity necessarily, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the right thing, but I'm not gonna give all this technology away because humans are stupid.

uh No, that's more like your T'Challa is more on that range.

We're like, I'm gonna do cool things here in Wakanda, but you know, let's keep it here.

Let's keep it within the So Reed Richards is all about Reed Richards is, he is basically challenging the saying from Jurassic Park, know, like, just because we can, does that mean we should?

Reed Richards is often doing the should just because he can.

Like, he isn't like questioning whether it's for the better of humanity.

He just wants to know if he can do it, which is exactly how the Council of Reeds is created.

Yeah.

I think we are kind of saying the same thing because like what I'm saying is he's not one who's gonna like be giving away Normally from my understanding he's not gonna be the one who's just like providing all of this tech to the world He's developing stuff to make the world a better safer place But he's not just like giving it out free willy every time he fucking creates something No, he does, but it's through the Future Foundation, is sort of like his like, think of it as like like nonprofit where he like, he produces things for the Future Foundation and the Future Foundation sort of puts it out there into the world.

Got it.

Okay.

Yes and no.

Okay.

So like if we go back to the first Fantastic Four like movies.

Let's not reference those in any accurate way.

I'm only saying because that Reed Richards was kind of, again, very aloof to almost Dr.

Manhattan.

Yeah, again, the characterizations of all of those people except for Chickless as Ben Graham sucks.

Nothing about those movies.

It's him and Willie Lumpkin, Stan Lee.

Those are the two best castings in that movie.

I mean, we love Chris Evans as Human Torch, but I guess that one's okay.

But, you know, in reality, those are the two best ones.

Well, let's talk about the director of this one here, Aaron.

Let's talk about Matt Schafer.

Shackman.

Yeah.

The Shackster.

I don't like that.

Stop it.

I'm uncomfortable.

Stop.

Yeah.

Yeah, mostly in television.

Cut.

Bank and the fantastic four first steps, you know, let's like we don't even need to go over I will say this I am a huge fan of psych.

Yep, I Can love psych?

Okay, that's and then obviously WandaVision Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

He also did some episodes of the Godzilla series that you like Monarch.

Yeah, Legacy of Monsters.

Also welcome to Chippendales.

Yeah, so like not really much to say about him.

John Watts, director of the Tom Holland Spider-Man films was originally announced as the director in December of 2020.

He stepped down in April of 2022 to take a break from superhero projects for a while.

Joss Whedon and Peyton Reed, Joss Whedon and Yuck, were also considered to direct the film.

Also, Peyton Reed kind of yucked too because he's made all of the Ant-Man films and the last two have really sucked.

you know.

Composer, Michael Giacchino.

I mean, let's just, if we can like really compliment one big thing in this movie, it's insanely good.

Is this like already one of the best modern MCU scores in terms of like, you know, like when you hear the Avengers, go dun, dun, dun.

Like you hear that.

Black Panther.

Yeah, Black Panther, of course, like there are certain themes when you hear them, point being, Michael Giacchino, incredible work with this.

There are just certain sounds that when you hear them, you know the hero.

perfectly, I think a good score perfectly supplements a character sort of presentation in the film and like they're showing up and all that.

When you hear that, bum, bum, bum, you know, like all that, you're going to know it's fantastic for going forward.

What's up?

looks like he also directs.

Yeah, he directed the special presentation, The Werewolf uh I didn't know that.

That's pretty interesting.

I'd like to see him do more things because that werewolf by night was awesome.

I enjoyed that one a lot.

Yeah.

I enjoyed that a lot.

Let's talk about budget.

All right.

Two hundred.

All right.

Two hundred and ten million dollars.

Ten.

Again, basic superhero stuff.

Two hundred million dollars is kind of basic cable for these big blockbusters nowadays.

And we're going to talk about something that you don't care about because I need to brag really quickly.

First.

First steps opened at number one, of course, in the box office unseating Superman.

You fuck.

Yes, of course.

With a one hundred and seventeen point six million take.

at the domestic box office and in that opening weekend to date, which again is July 31st, the film has earned 142.2 million domestically and 99 million internationally for a worldwide total of 241.2 million dollars.

Now, everybody go back, everybody go back to our Superman episode.

I tell Aaron, I say, Aaron, listen, here's how it's going to go.

Here's the rub.

OK, Jurassic World, Superman, Fantastic Four First Steps.

That's going to be the box office.

And Aaron says, What do say, Aaron?

You say no.

It's going to be Superman, Fantastic Four, and Jurassic World.

I say nay, my friend.

And you say, you said right.

You said it was going to be Superman, Fantastic Four, Jurassic World.

uh Even with Fantastic Four currently opening with 10 % more international markets, because people were against Superman.

know, America's not really the cool kid on the block currently.

Rightfully so.

We're kind of being an asshole to a lot of our allies.

There are multiple countries that just aren't showing Superman because Believe it not, Superman sort of represents America in a larger sense.

But Fantastic Four, similar, I think.

I don't understand why that's not also being shown as like a more of a, you know, American property.

Point being, it was shown in 10 % more international markets compared to Superman.

However, First Steps is currently projected to earn $490 million worldwide.

That's just a projection.

We'll see how goes.

Compared to Superman's 600 and Jurassic World's, Jurassic World Rebirth's 18 and 8, 812 million.

And as things currently stand Aaron, Jurassic World currently leads, it's currently fourth at the box office behind Niza 2, which I've never heard of, Lilo and Stitch, the Minecraft movie and then Jurassic World Rebirth at $725 million.

God damn it.

Then all the way down to eighth, you have Superman at $510 million.

What is happening?

the way down at 13, right below Final Destination's bloodlines.

There were literally empty theaters.

I mean Fantastic Four First Steps 241 million.

Now again, this movie's yeah, it's been in theaters for two weeks.

So let's see.

I think at the end of the day, Fantastic Four will probably pass Thunderbolts at 10 at 382 million because again, it's projected to earn 490 Here's the most fucked up thing about it that I'm looking at this thing right now is Fantastic Four is right above Snow White Right, which publicly bombed but again, we should be fair that like this movie has been in theaters for ten days or 14 days roughly So I think at the end of the day if it hits that 490 million mark, it'll be right below f1 at 512 man It'll put it eighth on the year and I think it'll put it in good contention to stay in the top ten But point being is that anything below 500 million dollars from Marvel movies that is not good It doesn't matter how how you cut it.

I mean the fact that Thunderbolts is sitting at 382 million, that's a big loss.

It's a big loss.

they have spent a lot, a lot on the Fantastic Four advertising budget.

A lot of that 210 million dollars.

I would bet you 20 % of that budget 15 to 20 % is marketing.

I mean it was everywhere at San Diego Comic Con.

It's been everywhere everywhere.

I it's been on sporting events.

It was on.

I mean like I have Olivia watching Love Island and you've got two fantastic four trailers before each commercial break in.

So yeah I agree.

It's kind of crazy that you know it this it was put in the eitgeist as much.

I mean I think that just goes to show how much goodwill the MCU has sort of evaporated away.

Okay, talk about the cast here.

You want to go over to me?

Go ahead.

All right.

Pedro Pascal, AKA Zaddy.

Reed Richards, Mr.

Fantastic.

And he definitely put that Reed Richards, Mr.

Fantastic.

he's stretchy.

He's stretchy.

He's girthy.

Vanessa Kirby as Sue Storm, Invisible Woman.

Even Moss's background.

Ben Grimm, The Thing.

That's just an interesting name for a white guy.

Boss back rack.

Joseph Quinn as Johnny Storm Human Torch, which I thought he did a great job.

Julia Garner as Shalabal, a Silver Surfer.

I actually have a theory.

If they do a Silver Surfer porn star, her name will be, like in the movie, the Silver Surfer.

Her character name will be Swalabals.

Ralph Inneson as Galactus.

Sarah Niles as Lynn Nichols.

Mark Gaddis as Ted Gilbert.

Natasha Lyon.

This is a surprising thing to see was Natasha Lyon as Rachel Rosman and then Paul Walter Hauser as Harvey Elder mole man.

he was he was a delight.

He was a delight in the scene and a half that he was Yes, yes.

Additionally, Matthew Wood voices the fantastic force robot companion Herbie, is the humanoid experimental robot B type integrated electronics.

Wood also voiced Bib Fortuna and General Grievous in the Star Wars prequels.

I'm just going to correct you.

It's Fortana, but I just don't want to get the comments from the Star Wars nerds.

Bip Fortana.

oh It's, but point being is that yeah, that's a, and Herbie was fun.

He's sort of a BBA type in this movies.

Definitely for the kids, know, buy your kid a Herbie plushie and call it a day kind of deal.

liked how he had the tape that came out, like programming tape.

Yeah, absolutely.

It came out like the front.

That was like a VCR.

That was pretty dope.

Which of the Fantastic Four is I'll tell you.

probably Vanessa Kirby is to storm.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's that's got to be the answer, right?

Like Sue Storm is given the most to do.

Vanessa Kirby kills it.

She's great as Sue Storm.

That's basically Susan's role on the Fantastic Four is that she is the heart of the team.

She's the one that keeps these idiot men together and like not fighting constantly.

We don't get a lot of that in this movie.

Like you don't get a lot of like Ben and Johnny.

Yeah, you know, like the brother the brotherly teasing you that's what you get more of, know, they're definitely a family like they're definitely of the first family in this which I thought was really genuine and like they had that they they definitely had like this very family like vibe and kind of dynamic I would say definitely for me obviously, you know, Vanessa Kirby because as Sue Storm, she just that's one thing that we have never really at least in in this in the formats that I've seen in the media I've seen, we never get that that Sue Storm that is really like the pivotal, like the real like pivotal foundation of the Fantastic Four.

And she really was the strength and the heart of this team.

Like Johnny is young, he's hot headed, know.

He's hold a horn up, which I get, I thought that that was really interesting.

That's uh very interesting.

And I will say this coming in second place for favorite was definitely Johnny Storm because of the fact that, you know, we all they've always given him kind of this, this dumbed down attitude.

Like he's the boy, he's the player.

He's not really like, like, why is he there?

He still went into space.

Like, why is he there?

And really in this one, they've really talked to, they kind of leaned into, he is a valued member of this team.

He has, you know, a part to play on this team.

He's very smart.

And that whole thing with kind of, you know, figuring out the language of, know, from her planet, from, you know, from Zen Law was just incredible.

Yeah, he definitely he acts as sort of like the Rosetta Stone of the of the team and and decodes all of that Yeah, it is Vanessa Kirby.

I do like Pedro Pascal I initially thought he was miscast as Reed Richards But I thought he did a pretty good job and I think that he plays that sort of trapped genius really well.

Mm-hmm Eba must backwreck as Ben Grimm.

think Ben looks good in this movie I don't love the beard, but I don't think that's permanent.

I thought was a fun.

That's just to sell toys It's just to show an alternate version of variant of Ben Grimm.

But like My biggest complaint, and I've said this since the beginning, and I felt it through both viewings, is that I just wish that Iban Masbakrex, Ben Grimm, had that sort of Yonkers gruffle voice.

He just sounds like fucking cousin from The Bear.

You know what mean?

Like, I wish he had that sort of grumble the way that Michael Chickles does in the first one, but also with the accent, right?

Like, he doesn't really have, like, I guess he has a little bit of a New York accent in this, but like, not really.

oh So that's kind of like my biggest complaint.

And then also I heard at one point Natasha Lyon's character, Rachel Rosman, was supposed to be Alicia Masters, who was the love interest of Ben Grimm, but they changed it last minute.

That's kind of a bummer because Alicia Masters is a great character.

So overall, though, I think that one of the strong points of this movie is the team, like the family.

For all of the movie happening around them and how average things are happening around them, I think the real core and the important part, and I think where I'm still pretty confident in this sort of property within the larger Marvel universe is that these four people seem like they care about each other and they work well together as chemistry.

All of that definitely works for me.

Can we also just, and I want to talk about this real quick, is Galactus' design.

I really enjoyed the way that he looked in this.

I really enjoyed the detail, the, just his presence, the eyes, like he had this thing where his eyes would light up, and then also when he really wanted to kind of get his point across, the light would disappear and it's just like his big...

fucking purple iris.

And I'm like, I'm like, that's such a cool design, a cool idea.

However, I don't know, like to me, like scale wise, I thought he was able to like make himself shrink and grow.

thought he was going to be kind of bigger than than he was.

uh I don't know if we've completely disproven that he can make himself larger or smaller, you know obviously in this film he is sort of like you know a little bigger than the Statue of Liberty or maybe like guess a lot bigger than Statue of Liberty but not by much.

He just to me was still like pushed around a little bit too much by the Fantastic Four.

Thank you.

Here's the thing, everybody, and we're going to get into it here in just a moment.

We talk about Galactus in sort of a larger capacity because I want to highlight what Galactus means to this universe now that he's been introduced.

I think one of my biggest complaints, and this kind of goes back to the Captain America holding up Thanos' gauntlet in Infinity War sort of power scale.

The thing is, is like, I'm OK with bending reality to these movies because at the end of the day, these are comic book movies.

But if you're going to set rules, follow the rules in the movie so that way This doesn't feel cheap.

again, I'm not, I don't want to complain about Sue because I think Sue is the best part of this movie and I love Vanessa Kirby in the role.

And I understand that like mom strength is a thing, right?

That's so like, they say that women can lift cars when their kid is trapped or whatever, right?

But the fact that Sue Storm is able to physically push a cosmic being on the scale that is not matched or even, you know, overcome by many.

by less than like 10 being cosmic beings.

The fact that she's able to actually physically move him.

And again, it does kill her, but like the fact that she's able to do it is sort of breaking the rules of this movie.

And it makes me sort of wince a little bit.

Yeah, and that was the thing.

It's like I really enjoyed what the battle was supposed to be and like kind of how it was occurring until some of these liberties were taken with the power scaling.

Let's get into like, there's a brief appearance, Robert Downey Jr.

He makes an uncredited camo appearance in the mid-credits scene as Victor Von Doom, Dr.

Doom.

They don't show his face, but the Russo brothers confirm that Downey filmed the scene during production of the film Avengers Doomsday.

So basically there's, you know, mid credit scene is, you know, this is like, I don't know, maybe a couple of years later, four years later.

And, you know, they walk into the living room and you see just this hooded green hooded figure like kneeling down and speaking to, you know, Frank, Franklin and Richard.

So just, you know, I don't know.

It was an interesting thing.

It was another one of those ones where much like the post credit scene.

where it was so like innocuous like much like what are we talking about here?

Superman but also like yeah Thunderbolts took more chances with their their post credit scene than this one.

love Thunderbolts' incredible scene and the way that everybody looked but at least it took like a decent swing.

Yeah.

um Pedro Pascal dropped out of Weapons, which also stars, co-stars Julia Garner to work on this movie.

Hey, we'll be talking about that next week on the show, everybody.

will.

Even even Moss Backrack.

This is the second time playing a Marvel character.

He also played David Lieberman, AKA Micro and The Punisher.

He went from supplying a literal psychopath guns to being a big rock man.

Yep.

Yep.

That's fun.

That's good high quality family fun.

Joseph Quinn wore a blonde wig for his role as Johnny Storm human toe which he shaved his head for his role in warfare Yep.

Which we cover here on the show.

Go listen to that.

Again, wow, eight degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Paul Mescal turned down the chance to play Johnny Storm, the Human Torch.

I gotta look him up real quick.

He was the star of gladiator 2 which we also talked about here on the show So a lot of plugging here in this fantastic form Listen all those episodes right now.

All right, Aaron.

I want to talk to you about galactus.

You just mentioned it I'm gonna try to give this like brief.

This is Chris's Chris's comic second everybody is trying to make We try to make this at least an hour of we're currently at 90 minutes So no big deal but point being is I need to tell you about galactus because I think you and the listeners need to understand Galactus being in this universe, what it means for the larger Marvel.

Okay, so Galactus is the survivor of the six cosmos, which was the previous multiverse before the big bang.

Originally he was from Ta-An, and he was named Galan, born in a previous incarnation of the universe of Earth 616 on the planet Ta, 1960s.

People were doing drugs, everybody, don't worry about it.

Due to the plague called the Black Winter, which we see in Donny Cates' Thor run.

the universe began dying at a rapid pace and Taz civilization was one of the last ones still in existence.

Knowing that their deaths were inevitable, Galan proposed that the remaining survivors that they could gloriously die by piling one of their starships directly into the heart of the cosmic egg.

As the starship containing Galan and the fellow survivors approached the termination point of the universe, the cosmic radiation killed all the passengers except for Galan, who strangely found himself filled with new energy.

Right before the universe is in, Galan was approached by the sentience of the six cosmos.

who merged its essence with the mortal Galan giving birth to a new entity who would survive beyond the end of time, Galactus, the devourer of worlds.

While being granted power beyond comprehension, Galactus would be forced to consume entire worlds to satiate his cosmic hunger for life-sustaining energy, maintaining necessary cosmic balance.

So that's sort of his pendence.

That's his, know, the thing that he has to follow is that he has to consume planets.

Everybody thinks that Galactus is a villain.

I will...

debate anyone Galactus is nature.

Absolutely.

He has something bestowed upon by the people we're about to talk to talk about here in just a moment to maintain cosmic balance.

And we get a little bit of that from Thanos in Infinity War and end game.

They sort of just stole Galactus' goal.

Like Thanos' whole thing was like, I'm going to kill half the universe to maintain like balance.

That's Galactus' thing.

Right.

So because like in the comics, Thanos' whole role is like he wants to went over the love of mistress death, who we'll talk about here in just a moment.

here's sort of Aaron, the hierarchy of cosmic beings within the Marvel universe.

we're going to go from like least powerful to most powerful.

So we have the in-betweener who is the shepherd of maintaining between order and chaos.

It's going to get really heady everybody.

I apologize.

It's going to get kind of weird for a second.

just.

These guys are smoking a lot of weed and.

A of shrooms.

lot of shrooms.

Late nights.

lot of LSD.

Right.

Yeah.

The Celestials who we again saw in the Eternals.

These are the first beings to exist like pretty much ever.

They make and create life within the universe.

Then you have Galactus of course who is the great balance keeping the universe from becoming too oversized.

You have Master Order and Lord Chaos who are both the personifications of again chaos and order.

You have Sire Hate.

and Mistress Love, the embodiment of emotional spectrum.

You have the Living Tribunal, who we've heard rumblings of in Doctor Strange and who we saw briefly in Doctor Strange 2 when America Chavez and Doctor Strange are sort of careening through multiple universes.

You've seen the Living Tribunal for a quick second.

In Loki also, right?

No?

I think you might see their heads, perhaps.

It's the three-headed guy.

Yeah, that was though they had like the the there was like the statues.

Yes, yeah, in season one, right.

Yeah.

Yes, you're right.

Absolutely.

That's the personification of multiversal law, which makes sense for that moment in that moment with Kang, right?

It's the law of the multiverse.

a representative of the one above all, the Living Tribunal had the highest authority in the multiverse.

All right.

We have Infinity, who we saw in Thor, Love and Thunder, is an abstract entity who embodies the Marvel universe itself, along with her brother counterpart, Eternity, with whom the Infinity is one with.

We also see an Eternity in Peter Quill's eyes in Guardians of the Galaxy volume two.

I see eternity, he says, think at one point.

Mistress Death, who again, I just spoke about, is the personification of death itself.

The enemy of life, as she is often called.

Thanos and Deadpool are often fighting over her in the Marvel universe.

Then we have the Phoenix Force, Aaron, who is the manifestation of all prime universal forces of life in the multiverse, sometimes known in the omniverse.

One of the oldest known cosmic entities said to predate darkness and the universe.

So Phoenix Force, Jean Grey, think- Still a bitch.

Still.

still a raging bitch sometimes, you know?

The fact that the X-Men can even go up against the Phoenix Force is kind of wild.

The Beyonders, who, Aaron, we may meet in Doomsday, nigh-on-nip-itent, I can't say that word, nigh-ontipitent race, omnipotent race that dwell in the beyond outside of the multiverse.

Originally, they're from the second cosmos, which is the second universe in existence.

They were the creations and the servants of the Celestials who named them the Omegas in opposition to the Alphas, the first firmament.

They also created the cosmic cubes, which you often see Red Skull going after in the comics.

Test track.

Well, so like the test track is called the cosmic cube, but like there are multiple cosmic cubes in the comics.

And they have like intelligence in them, right?

Yeah.

And then also they created Owen Reese, who we have not met yet, but in the comics he is known as the Molecule Man, also a major villain of the Fantastic Four who can manipulate molecules in a very, very overpowered way.

They basically created him to be the multiversal bomb to blow up universes or multiverses that they want to basically destroy the Beyonders.

This is considered a hard reset of the multiverse explained more in the Jonathan Hickman Time Runs Out storyline.

Time Runs Out is kind of what Doomsday and Secret Wars is loosely being based off of.

The Beyonders are the reason that Dr.

Doom was successful in destroying the Ultimate and the Regular Universe and created Battleworld which of course led to the events of 2015's Secret Wars.

I do know that there's several covers where it's like, you know, like so and so versus the Beyonder.

Yeah.

So there is the Beyonder who's one guy, I guess it's one Beyonder who was the main villain of the secret wars from the 1980s who created the original battle world.

But in the sort of the newer secret wars, the Jonathan Higman time runs out storyline, there are like three or four of them, I think.

In the 1980s version, he makes himself so he doesn't look like an alien.

He makes himself to look like a cool looking, like good looking guy with like a white vest.

He looks very 1980s, but it's funny.

Then we have Oblivion.

Hey, shout out to us.

The embodiment of absolute nothingness is also a fragment of itself in form.

Sorry.

It also has fragments of itself throughout existence that run around throughout the Marvel universe.

You may know them as the Chaos King and then also Noel from the Venom series, the god of the abyss, what do they call him?

The King of Black.

King of Black.

Black, the symbiote, the god.

Yeah, he is a fragment of Oblivion.

And then lastly, we have the one above all and the one below all.

The one above all claims to be the creator of everything and the source of all that there is and that will ever be.

This is also a character that was created and meant to represent the writer and the creator, like the artist of the actual comic.

That's cool.

It's a way of them sort of referencing themselves in the comic, which is interesting.

Kind of narcissistic.

and ever will be.

That's pretty cool.

then you have the one below all who was recently introduced in the comics.

It wants to destroy all of creation resides in the lowest point of reality called the below place which it rules and is a cosmic law of balance.

Basically the one below all is responsible for all the gamma radiation on earth and throughout the universe that creates the Hulk's and this gets better better explained and actually the one below all is shown first in the immortal Hulk run from Al Ewing.

um That's right.

So there's the hierarchy of the cosmic beings of the Marvel Universe, Aaron.

Do you feel like you know all things Marvel Universe now?

I feel so in that.

you for that.

Absolutely.

No problem.

Let's talk about let's do some complaining really quick.

Let's let's cleanse this palette.

Shake off all that knowledge because we're about to get real in cell real quick.

OK.

Gross.

Nasty.

Let's talk about Shalabal.

Before I get into my sort of bit, thoughts on sort of Shalabal's part.

we don't necessarily, I don't want to besmirch Julia Gardner.

I love Julia Gardner.

I loved her in Ozark.

I loved her in the new werewolf movie or whatever the universal movie.

She's going to be in weapons next week when we cover that film.

So I love her as an actor, but like as Shalabal, the character in the movie, what are your thoughts?

mean, I didn't have a problem with her.

Like she just wasn't really, wasn't really much of anything.

She was just kind of vanilla up there, like being, you know, the silver surfer.

I don't think that anything really that she, I mean, again, you have like this, this, character who is supposed to be kind of neutral, kind of be like, kind of be like nothing, just like, like, again, the Herald just coming.

Harold this planet, Harold Galactus.

Okay, sounds like that.

Harold, I'm Rich, know, I'm JFK.

I, Harold Galact- It's not about what you can do for your planet.

It's about what you can do for your universe.

Galactus' hunger.

um just, again, like I think that her character was not one that maybe, maybe she wasn't, I can't say she was right or wrong for this role because the character of the Silver Surfer is that of a neutral being who is there to herald the coming of Galactus.

They are there to basically say, sorry guys, time's up.

You fucked.

Yeah.

You know?

So how, mean, I can't really like...

say that there was anything remarkable about the role.

I can't say there was anything remarkable about her acting.

If anything, the thing, the only thing that really kind of was like, I caught myself kind of like, was like the surfing scenes on some of the, some of the scenes.

I thought they were kind of cool, but I'm just like, this is interesting.

Like it's interesting.

It's a choice.

It was a choice.

Is it because she's a cosmic being and she probably doesn't know what a surfboard is?

Yes.

Interesting.

Yeah.

That's always been a thing.

Like, I actually, as a giant Silver Surfer fan, I don't really know why Galactus chose Norrin or Shala in this instance to look like a surfer.

Like, I know why Jack Kirby did it, but I don't know why Galactus did it in like the larger Marvel universe.

You know what mean?

Yeah, just put a dude flying around like, you know, like, I don't know.

And he's the only one, Noren and Shala are the only ones that are like turn silver and get a board.

Everybody, every other Herald of Galactus is just like their normal outfit.

Like they just wear whatever, you So anyway, you probably, everyone listening, you're probably like, wow, Chris is really going to lean in.

He's really going to go in on this.

Here's the thing.

I like, I don't, I don't mind this interpretation so much.

My only question is, and I think maybe my biggest issue with it is why?

Why, why did they gender bend Silver Surfer for this movie?

And I talked to Libby about this the other day when we went to go see it and she made fun of me because I was ranting for 10 minutes.

But like, if you're going to do that, like if you're going to switch up, you know, the race or the ethnicity or the sex or whatever, okay, I'm down for that.

If it helps the story and it makes the character better for that story, absolutely, I'm down for it.

But I'm just wondering why in this movie with this version of Shala Ball slash Silver Surfer, why this version of Silver Surfer, why not Norenrad?

I feel like there's gonna be a reason for it in the future.

Sure, we can operate under those assumptions, but what if not?

What if we're wrong from earlier and Shala Ball is the Silver Surfer for our normal universe again?

This is going to be one of those situations where it's going to be like, you know, they're like, they're going to either accept it or they won't.

Like there's nothing that we can do about it.

Yeah.

You know, if anything, I'd say this is probably one of the least, the last things to get really hung up on.

Not for me.

I cared a lot about this, Aaron, if you remember.

And the thing is, I purposefully held contempt.

I purposely held judgment because I wanted to see the movie and see how this character was played and her role in this film.

And after leaving the film and seeing it twice, I'm still left wondering why Shawla Ball.

If like they changed her backstory or if they made her characterization slightly different.

Everyone, as a giant Silver Surfer, I can assure you this is exactly Noren's backstory.

There's literally nothing different.

I'm going to throw this out there.

Perhaps because Galactus was thrown to another universe 616, they're going to realize that there's some kind of like surf off.

There's going to like a surf competition.

I'm kidding.

No surf competition.

Far out.

It's going to be like summer 2005, man.

We're going to have two surfers surfing it out.

Let's see who wins.

No, it's, know, obviously they're going to have to do something.

They're going to have to go after Galactus.

They're going to have to go after, you know, into this other universe.

Who knows, maybe again, because going into a different universe, maybe there is another Galactus with another Silver Surfer and there's gonna be like some kind of like figured out.

And at that point now, Shalabal is no longer gonna be the Silver Surfer and can now be with maybe Johnny Storm.

That's the reason I think they did it, which I think is an absolutely idiotic, stupid reason, is they wanted Johnny Storm to be horny for somebody in this movie.

That's what I don't like, is that they just wanted to sort of be like, aha, Johnny has a crush on the silver lady.

That's not interesting to me.

think all the scenes where they had Johnny being all sprung for Shah La Ball, they could have just supplemented that with actual backstory, because of all the backstory that we get of Shah La Ball in this film, it's her looking, hanging out with her daughter, presumably, looking out into the ocean and then like the world eater shows up and then she becomes silver surfer.

That's all the backstory we get on Zen Law.

like again, maybe I sound maybe maybe I'm alone here.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks that this is a silly creative decision to gender been silver surfer for literally no reason.

Again, do it if it makes sense.

Do it if you're to do something different.

Do it if it makes sense for the story or if you got a great actor.

And I'm not saying that, you know, Julia Gardner is not a great actor.

She absolutely is.

But like they had like Keith Stanfield.

He was like campaigning and like he was brought in for an audition for this role.

He could have played Silver Surfer.

So you can't tell me that there weren't like a laundry list of great actors willing to play this character.

So again, maybe I'm, I know you don't care Aaron, I'm sure probably the listeners don't care.

I just had to get that off my chest because again, I've been sitting with this since they announced that Julia Gardner was going to be Silver Surfer.

That I was willing to hold judgment until the time came that we saw the movie.

And now that we've seen the movie, I am still left bewildered as to why they made Shah LaPaule Silver Surfer.

In time, and that's the only reason I'm accepting it, is because I think in time, it will reveal itself, the reasoning behind it.

And that's all we can do, as Marvel fans who waited decades to figure out what the fuck the Gauntlet was all about.

We'll get there, okay?

Do think we get Norenrad in Secret Wars and Doomsday?

Yes.

All right.

That'd be cool.

Listen, all of these complaints, throw them in the trash if we get Norenrad in 616.

That's all I want.

know, like, I just want them to make Norenrad Silver Surfer.

How mad would you be if we don't?

If they just make it shallow ball again, I'll be pretty mad.

Honestly.

And I don't want to sound like again because it's she's a woman.

I don't care.

Like I'm totally fine.

about It's about just like the again, I get it.

There's like there's like a reasoning behind it.

Don't change stuff.

That's like without like a specific reason and then like again, this isn't fucking season one of Lost.

Like I don't want to have to wait 20 more years to figure out why they're on the island.

Right.

All right, Aaron, we've talked about this thing enough.

I just want to say two incredible scenes.

We already talked about them.

Dr.

Doom shows up to Franklin.

We get a intro to the fake 1960s cartoon.

That's the incredible scenes.

They're pretty throwaway.

that cartoon one pissed me off.

Yeah, I will say the cool part though was at the end of the film they ended it with a Jack Kirby quote which was, And I think for a long time Jack Kirby has not gotten his due.

I think Stan Lee has been sort of in the spotlight since the beginning.

If you've read up on your history of Marvel comics, you know that Stan Lee often threw himself into the spotlight, always.

And Jack Kirby, Steve Jetko, folks like them were left sort of at their art table, sort of left without, with little to no credit.

Or flowers, absolutely.

Yeah.

I'm not to that Stan Lee is not worth anything.

We know, everybody here knows that we love Stan Lee, but like Jack Kirby, you can make a strong argument that Jack Kirby created a lot of these characters.

So, shout out to the king.

All right, Aaron, final thoughts on Fantastic Four First Steps.

I had fun, I enjoyed it.

didn't think it was great.

We saw it pretty late, I did kind of, there was like a moment where I did fall asleep.

We did see that 10 p.m.

We should say that.

like, yeah, get out of theater to like 1 30 and west west coast time.

So it's like four o'clock in the morning East Coast.

We were.

Brutally tired.

Yes.

I will I will say this like again not not a terrible film not a terrible film Not a terrible movie.

I did I did very much enjoy it more than Thunderbolts though Sure.

Okay.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Again, as I said, it's sort of this weird amalgamation of average to cool things.

It's showing me a lot of things that I like.

It's doing a lot of things that I asked for from a movie like this.

Like I wanted this space age.

I wanted the Fantastic Four.

I'm a huge Fantastic Four fan.

Two of my favorite characters in comics, not Marvel DC comics as a whole, are Doctor Doom and Silver Surfer.

So I have a very strong attachment to this corner of the Marvel universe.

And I liked some of it, but I didn't like enough of it to come out totally satisfied.

You know what mean?

So for that, and I'll go and give my rating, Aaron, first, because you often give yours first.

Out of five David A.

Weiner's, I'm going to give Fantastic Four first steps a 3.5 out of.

Yeah, it's funny because we always do it very much the same way.

I was gonna give it a three.

Okay.

It's interesting.

I honestly thought that you would like this movie more than I did.

Just based on our conversations about- I mean, again, I really liked the way that it looked aesthetically.

I really liked the Galactus design.

The things for me that I really enjoyed about it were not the things that mattered in the grand scheme of the film.

Again, the power scaling between Galactus and like Sue Storm and some of these guys, it wasn't there for me.

I don't know.

I even feel like this point, the fact that, again, the Herald of Galactus could knock him back into a black hole.

to me is like a problem.

Sure, I mean there are instances where Silver Surfer goes up against Galactus but very similar to like my favorite, one of my favorite stories of all time is Silver Surfer parable.

Galactus shows up one day and he has to sort of take on Galactus by himself and one character asked him, he's like, why are you doing this?

Like he's gonna kill you.

You have no shot at beating Galactus and Silver Surfer was part of the reason why I love him so much is because he nobly says, you don't do things because you think you're gonna win or because you think that you're gonna get praise.

You do it because it's the right thing to do.

And I, but I tend to agree with you there.

think it's interesting that like these characters were able to take on Galactus.

But point being, we've already talked about it.

Let's get out of here.

That'll do it for our conversation about both Sandia Comic-Con and Fantastic Four.

Great week for nerding, I'll say.

Third week of July?

What a time.

Great.

Absolutely.

Good times.

Glad I got to see you twice in two weeks.

Very fun.

Aaron, next week on the show, episode 202, we're going to be joined by good friend of the show, fellow podcaster of the Camp Cryptid podcast.

Erica Fett will be joining us back here on the show.

Again, every time we cover a horror film, we've got to bring Erica back on.

We've got to bring in the big guns, the experts.

So she's going to be here to join us to talk about the highly anticipated Zack Kroeger mystery horror weapons, which again, as we said, stars Julia Gardner.

also shows our stars Josh Brolin and I think Benedict Wong, I think is also in it as well.

Yeah.

So very excited for that film.

Very excited to chat with Erica.

Always great to talk to her.

And yeah, and that'll do it.

Take us out of here.

I'll do all right.

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