[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we give you a strong biblical framework and lots of practical ideas on how to live intentionally as a father and a husband.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Brooke Moser and I'm Justin Whitmore Early and we're your host to guide you through the many roles and challenges that God is calling you to live intentionally as a father.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're following a visual framework that you can check out at intentionalfatherhood.org and it's going to help you break down fatherhood into eight columns.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in each one, we're going to talk about how God made you to be a father and what practical habits you can start trying today in order to live intentionally into that home.

[SPEAKER_00]: So come along with us as we follow Jesus on this journey towards being more intentional fathers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Intentional fatherhood season two Justin and I were here.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a high five in Richmond, Virginia in Richmond, Virginia in your office in my law in the basement of my law office.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at this 150 year old brick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just going to say this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten a tour of your whole space.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so impressed.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this used to be what house whose house was this was a [SPEAKER_00]: an officer from the Civil War who started Richmond Cedar Works, I think it was built this as his city mansion and now it's filled with us lawyers, which I'm so excited to show Richmond to you or your hero.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love Richmond, so much history for better.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never been, so this has been my first time, so I'm gonna see you through your eyes.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have to talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're here for another season.

[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't even know if we'd ever do one.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Six, what was it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Seven months ago, I was in a cabin and bend or even it was snowing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We did season one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know if anyone would ever care or listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Me too.

[SPEAKER_01]: and it's been so great so hasn't it I mean the response guys we have to tell you all listening I mean the out for of questions and excitement and whether that social media email or just general involvement it has been insane and the amount of people that have [SPEAKER_01]: Listened-in tuned-in, not only just the amount, but also the types of people, like, you guys are like legit dudes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like some of you guys, like, it's just been so encouraging to see your hunger to grow and go on this journey with us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Justin and I are just, we're just excited and been thankful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember in the cabin I kept being like, why is he saying this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Every time he introduces an episode, he'd be like, you know, send us your questions, send us voice memos.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us your name, where you're from, and I was like, why is he saying this?

[SPEAKER_00]: And now I realize you're brilliant dude because so many of you, so many of you all out there, send us voice memos, being like, I'm so and so from somewhere, Missouri, and here's my question, and it was so fun to hear everybody's questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just so fun to hear, like, how many people really are listening and engaging?

[SPEAKER_01]: And from all over the world, like some in Australia, some in Ireland, some in other, you know, a lot of the questions from, there's a handful of England like it's been encouraging it's not just isolated to the states.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's been fun too to hear all the different the accents that have come in.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can't see you, but we can hear you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just take a second.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for everybody who sent in those questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yet again, I want to say this.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do this again.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to highlight two things and do send your questions a one minute voice memo with your name where you're from and your question send it to email it to hello at intentional fatherhood.org we will get that and here's what's fun in this season season two we're going to set up the framework in a second can't wait to tell you about the framework we've been praying into this and honestly I just love how the spirit works between you and I in our conversations this is all you like later after later we got a framework we got a diagram we're about to [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what we'll do is we'll pick some that are very close to the same theme and we'll respond to that question.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then so we want you to know that, but we want to do that for season two.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this season is going to bring up a bunch of questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what our hope is is if we sit down again for season three is to sit down and basically do the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, let's respond to the questions from the last season.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can know that that's coming later.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get through the content of this season and then look for some episodes responding specifically to your questions with your voices asking those questions that will be fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also, we have to say, rating, subscribing, and leaving a comment helps so much and it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody that did that, I mean, there was such an outpour of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say, another thing that you said at the beginning of episode, the episode every time last season.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, that's just kind of weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we need to tell you with one or two things?

[SPEAKER_00]: One, it really helped.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it really really cool to see intentional fatherhood being in like the top 10 podcast for a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, with spirituality and religion.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a hangout super high, which was amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, thanks to everybody listening to did that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so many people heard of it because of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really didn't realize how much this helps to get get it to other people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so many people have been emailing or texting or DMing on social media.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I heard about this podcast and why did they hear about it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because listeners like you rated and subscribed and shared it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So keep doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so helpful.

[SPEAKER_01]: please do and uh one YouTube as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So check that out if you want to watch all the content uh there's a bunch of stuff over there too uh and that's all in the show notes so you can just click on the show notes you can look at wherever you like to listen and the Spotify community I mean it's on par with the Apple uh podcast community which is really interesting because primarily podcasts you know they can sometimes favor a certain platform man that's Spotify community is coming in strong so keep going there and [SPEAKER_00]: Love y'all in Apple.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Apple, we love you guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for doing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And please do it because it honestly just helps so many fathers get the word out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also we have social media at intentional fatherhood in the last little underscore because intentional fatherhood alone wasn't available.

[SPEAKER_01]: Someone was smarter than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: They'll figure it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: But go follow things over there.

[SPEAKER_01]: You'll get more information.

[SPEAKER_01]: But just in last season was so encouraging.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I went back and listened to a lot of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was encouraged.

[SPEAKER_01]: by myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like, by me, I was like, I just want to say, let another man praise you not your own lips.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was just encouraged by what happened.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think again, we pray into these seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: We pray into what God wants to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like there was stuff that was said that I didn't even realize in the moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it just realized like the spirit wants to did something special in sweet.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of you that gave feedback, said the same thing, and so we humbly say we don't think that we've had that one dialed, we think that the spirit was a big assist on that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're praying for a big assist on this season as well that Jesus comes in and says what he needs to say to each of you listening, because each of you are in a different life stage and you have different needs, but we're just grateful to do this again and sit down and get into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was so encouraging to me two things.

[SPEAKER_00]: One, a lot of my close friends listened and we're like, this is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, I like broke.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really want to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's always encouraging when your, because your friends will tell you the truth, about what they think.

[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: And second, it honestly did help me, as anybody who reads my books knows, I am a big visual thinker, always making diagrams.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really did enjoy thinking through these axes that we did in the last season of concentrating on family paths and family future and legacy and then spiritual rhythms and what about embodied rhythms, work, art, beauty, all these, [SPEAKER_00]: different sides of tension that we hold as a father and it really, really did help me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're listening and you are just not turning in for season two and you didn't listen to season one, you're in for a treat because it really is a great framework.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was so helpful for me to think about, but speaking of frameworks.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got another one for you for season two.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to do a six episodes on a framework.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to tell the people about it?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do, and before I tell about the framework one thing I do want to just say, which is really fun, is, you know, a lot of people have been asking, what are we getting together in person, you know, as far as doing a conference, and I just want to tell you, we don't have exact details yet, but things from the works.

[SPEAKER_01]: So be excited.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know you're going to share this piece of secret information.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we need to.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to get together.

[SPEAKER_01]: By the time this comes out, hopefully we've already figured our lives out, and hopefully we already have this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully we've gotten our lives together.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Poor shadowing.

[SPEAKER_00]: There we go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this season is, as we've prayed through it, you know, if you go back to the the axes and TensorFlowfatherhood.org, you can see that visual, someone asked, will we have a printable PDF?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can we print it out?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we'll put that on the website.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get it as a tattoo, please do let us know.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll send you the flash paper for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that the idea, [SPEAKER_01]: is really helpful because each of those axes are like standalone, you know, points of a man's life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so obviously there's a lot of different ways we could go with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think, you know, when we talk about the idea of being spiritually formed, it's such a big part of our life, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to also say that just as I live in the practical day-to-day life, like the guts of life, the real pretty parts of life.

[SPEAKER_01]: So even if we're talking about things that are ethereal and spiritual and lofty, I promise you in every episode, there will be a lot of just like...

[SPEAKER_01]: real practical grit, life stuff, because I don't think there's any way you can talk about fatherhood without being realistic about the model and the process and really like how it practically works out.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's nobody needs more advice, you know, like at the end of the day, it's like, how does this actually work?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to highlight that, but really what we want to talk about today is the three different movements and throughout the season, the three different movements of the spiritual life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do a bit one movement one getting your life together.

[SPEAKER_01]: What does that actually mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: Second, giving your life away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Second movement is giving your life away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then third is giving your death away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And these three things will have multiple episodes on them.

[SPEAKER_01]: But these three things make up the whole of your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: They make up the whole of the time span of your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I think it's really easy to talk about life in general, but I think it's men when we do things like even, you know, I'm thinking of the framework that we created for last season.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you start to put it in some framework and you start to put it out in paper, you start to think about it differently.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to open our minds in a new way that maybe wasn't there before.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it allows you to think about your life in a whole different way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when we talk about the idea of getting your life together and just, I'm just sitting this up really quick, he's going to have a fun story and a fun exercise for you right away.

[SPEAKER_01]: But getting your life together, that's the idea of your building identity, your rooting yourself and love, it's like, how do you become a healthy man emotionally?

[SPEAKER_00]: relationally spiritually how do you how do you actually do that was and literally like how do you get your life together this sort of How do you transition from boyhood and Being a teenager and an adolescent to being a man who has a job a marriage family responsibilities [SPEAKER_01]: literally how do you get together yes and i know a lot of guys and i know a lot of guys listening that maybe you have a job but you don't love it maybe you have a life but you don't love it and no one ever helped you figure out how to move from boyhood to manhood [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, honestly, there's so many practical things, just even a hidden plane site in Scripture, but also just in life practicality that we can do to really begin to like hone into what were we made to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: What we should we do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do I hate doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: What do I love doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're going to talk about all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a place we'll talk about it, but we're, you know, man are supposed to call boys into.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is initiation stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of us missed that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of us were never called.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of us were never taught.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is this part getting your life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is both gonna be about helping you finish some of that work, because some of us aren't finished getting our life together, but also helping you think about, how do you do this for your kids?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you help them learn to get their life together?

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's really stage one of discipleship.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: What is the second stage talk about?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, most of us are in the second stage of giving your life away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once you get your life together, and of course, it's not 100% together.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like, oh, I've gotten this dialed in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a finish.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And these aren't clean stages, by the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: on of overlap by years, maybe decades for some.

[SPEAKER_01]: But eventually, as that happens, the Holy Spirit starts pulling something deeper out of you, and it's not just about building a good life.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually about pouring out your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, fatherhood, I think more than anything in my entire existence, has been the thing that shows me like, my life does not exist for my pleasure.

[SPEAKER_01]: My life does not just exist for [SPEAKER_01]: what I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: And really got never designed it that way, but there's this wonderful lie, the enemy's so's into culture and to life and to our moment that no, no life is about pleasure.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about what you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about weekends on the lake.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about the house.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about the money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of dissatisfied men that I encounter with giving your life away.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where we live, this is where a lot of our listeners will be living in that shocking stage where you realize you've gotten it all together, only to realize it's supposed to be about others and it is a painful, difficult season.

[SPEAKER_00]: of realizing you need to invert your life, you need to turn it inside out and give it away.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a part of fatherhood that is less about achieving it's more about giving.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is that part of fatherhood where you're you're it's not about you achieving more it's about giving more.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where, at least to the next part, that's where, honestly, your father had become's formation, it becomes discipleship.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is when you start to give your life away, and it's a beautiful stage, I love this stage.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it also kind of sets us up for the last one, which I'm really excited about as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this phrase, I think, catches everybody because it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: But giving your death away, giving your death away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Giving your death away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds strange, but it's honestly, I think, in my opinion, the most powerful, and it's really our final movement of discipleship, really to Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's that idea that it's radical trust.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really turning your life to now surrender and to actually start to give.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're not collecting anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're not achieving it's how can I literally give all that God's given me fully away?

[SPEAKER_01]: What does legacy look like?

[SPEAKER_01]: What does my life exist to who can I push forward on my way out of you know that kind of thing or lift up or who can stand on my shoulders and so I mean we can we're going to go into all of this in in great detail, but Couldn't be more excited about this framework [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to just say one more thing of why this matters.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, in each season or this season specifically, we want to walk through and talk about your fatherhood, about your marriage, about your work.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my hope our hope is really simple is that this isn't just a random set of seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: But each moment you're in is really meaningful.

[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, there's a spiritual progression to your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really important to begin to identify it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm right in the stage of getting my life together.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's been real hard for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is important to note, last season, we looked at the tensions of your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Almost geographically locating, what are these different areas of your life?

[SPEAKER_00]: And why is it so hard?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: to fulfill all the callings of fatherhood, and that helps me, I think it helped a lot of people, because it names all these different spaces and places where fatherhood asks you to do something where God is calling you to do something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So so important.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a little bit different in not seeing the geographical map of your life, but rather seeing the time progress of your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of the fundamental calls [SPEAKER_00]: of Christianity is to realize that you are on a pilgrim journey.

[SPEAKER_00]: God is taking you some wear and over a time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the idea of seeing your life in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas last season was seeing your life in different places.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is so, so, so important.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so, so helpful, I think, because you're not the same person you were 10 years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you won't be in 10 years and your kids won't be in everybody's moving through time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is so helpful for us pilgrims to realize, where are we in this journey?

[SPEAKER_00]: And where are we going in this journey that God is calling us on?

[SPEAKER_00]: And to have a map, you know, to have a stage and stage idea of where it's going [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so let's so that's a framework.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're going now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Two on each stage.

[SPEAKER_00]: Two on getting your life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Two on giving your life away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Two on giving your death away.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's where we're going.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and then we have some other fun stuff that we're not telling you about right now, but you know, I think we were chatting and I think you have an amazing story and also resource for this, which I'm I'm really thankful for, but tell me about this age chart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's get into right story.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's get into this first one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is how I came to see the importance of looking at life in the stages.

[SPEAKER_00]: Five or six years ago, finishing up some work at a meeting right here in Richmond.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was on the way back to my law office and decided to stop for a cup of coffee as I am want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I work best from coffee shops.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is one of my favorite ways to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I stopped to get a cup of coffee and I always keep a moleskin journal with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was answering some emails, and I had my journal on the table, and besides the prompting of the spirit, Brooke, I literally have no idea why I did this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I suddenly thought in my head, how old will my kids be when I'm 50?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like literally, I know idea why in the middle of my work day, I thought about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I was like, how old will [SPEAKER_00]: They'd be when I'm 50.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I wrote out really quick my ages down a line in my mulskin journal.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I was 34 or five, 34 or 35 at the time of the story, wrote it all out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I wrote out my oldest son's ages next to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, that's interesting because I suddenly saw [SPEAKER_00]: my life.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I suddenly saw the span of years I had with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I shut my computer because I was so intrigued.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote my wife's ages down next to mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I wrote each of my four boys next to each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the years next to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I had this whole age chart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And anybody who's red happens to the household.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, well, recognize this.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is in the last, is in the epilogue of habits of the household.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have formatted this age chart for fathers, so it's on intentionalfatherhood.org.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is not work, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I don't want to see where we're working.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to cry to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You would say, I would have told you because it would have been important.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the thing that happened when I did this, I remember sitting in this coffee shop and honestly crying a little bit, getting a little teary eye.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I saw myself at 35 with four boys who at the time where I think six, four, two, and maybe two months.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw that in five years, we're all going to be out of diapers, out of naps, into times where we don't like constantly have to interrupt Saturday to go home and take a nap.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can actually do trips and stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like five years from there, my oldest will be about to leave the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it felt shocking, actually, to realize, [SPEAKER_00]: I have, I have just over 10 more years with them all and wonder, I just have just over 10 more years with them all under one roof.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt that urgent need, not in a bad way, not like, oh my gosh, I'm dying really quickly and they're growing old really quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what does this all mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Actually in a good way of realizing this is the time that God has given me to steward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because, as I saw five years down the chart and then 10 years down the chart after that, they would be out of the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: They would be in their young twenties.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be parenting differently.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in a different stage of career.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so here's why I'm sharing this at the beginning of this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Johnning it all down helped me realize that it will not always be like it is now, and actually it hasn't always been like it is now, but when you are in the young season of parenting, you forget that there was ever a season where you were sleeping through the night.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: You forget there's ever a season where you could go on a date with your wife, you know, and not be where you forget there was ever a time where you could focus on your career because you feel so much as asked of you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Proverbs 29, 18, without vision, the people perish.

[SPEAKER_00]: The different translations of this are really quite different.

[SPEAKER_00]: The NIV is quite different than the King's James, but I think the NIV says, but blessed is the one who follows wisdom's instruction.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the King James says, blessed is the one who follows the law.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that idea of saying without vision, without a sight in front of you for where you're going, you start to whither and die.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when you see the path of wisdom, the path of the law, what the Lord is doing and how this works together and why he has given you the way that he's given you, suddenly there is a life, you know, there's flourishing, it is so helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here's why this is really helpful, I think for young fathers, because, [SPEAKER_00]: When you start to zoom out, and if you do the age chart, you're going to realize, and I actually read that it last weekend in preparation for talking about this season.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I wrote it out, but I wrote it out from when I graduated college until I would be 60.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I wrote all those years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that I was looking at is, oh, these, this was the decade and a half, 20 to 35.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, where I was getting my life together, and that explains why it felt like to be a young man in China trying to figure everything out as a young missionary, you know, why it felt like it did to have kids at the age of 27, 28, go to law school, all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think between the age of 30 to 35 was my transition years of trying to figure out, oh, I am no longer getting my life together as much as I am giving my life away.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here's where I think this is so interesting, Brooke.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think people used to have mid-life crises when they were transitioning from giving their life away to giving their death away.

[SPEAKER_00]: So sometime between 40 and 50, maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ish.

[SPEAKER_00]: People used to look up and realize, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have as much time left as I thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure if I'm doing the right things.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of my friends, I said, put it like this, a midlife crisis is realizing that you've climbed to the top of the ladder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Only to find it's leaning against the wrong wall.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got my life together and I've done all these things for my kids and my family.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what am I doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: People.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is like what our father's experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know about our listeners or you, I see way more people having young life crises or early 30s crises.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because they are struggling to transition from getting their life together to giving it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this was mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: If people listened to season one, I think it was in episode one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I share my anxiety collapse in my early 30s and how much the Lord has done through that story.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I realize now, I think one of the fundamental things that was happening in my transition year.

[SPEAKER_00]: There were a lot of things happening, but I think one of the fundamental things that was happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: is that I was transitioning from a decade of building a career, going to law school, getting married, beginning to have kids, and I was looking up for the first time in my early 30s and realizing, I think I've got all this stuff together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's incredibly hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get to sleep anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm struggling in young marriage.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm struggling with young kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at a career and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is going to ask so much of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was, I don't think I had the words for it, but I think I realized that the next 10, 20 years we're going to be about giving my life away, giving it to work, giving it to my spouse, giving it to my kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: and that was going to be like being crucified every day like it was going to be hard and so much as being asked of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I started to fall apart because I didn't know that the reason you get your life together is so you can give it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes you like Jesus and then you give it away so that then you can give your death away and [SPEAKER_00]: think about the world that's going to be after you without you.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think my guess is that many men that are listening are really struggling in the transition from getting your life together to giving it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so thinking in these stages, I think is going to help you realize why your life is so hard right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And why it's actually a good thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just have to double click on the insight of the midlife crisis versus the like prelife crisis.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is so accurate, I see it all over the place.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's so interesting with how connected our world is now, how one of the side effects it seems.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I'm not an expert in the space, but one of the things I've taken note of, is because we can see everybody's lives.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can see people's lives that maybe had certain advantages to have their life help getting their life together earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, earlier on, they're actually giving their life where doing the things that they really made to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very important to highlight to any man listening.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you did not have somebody, a mentor, a father figure, a father, pour into you and help you get your life together.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is very real challenge, and you might be struggling to get your life together still, because you haven't been properly helped in that space.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're going to talk about this more boyhood manhood next episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's highly important to be very gracious with yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you were in a space, and it doesn't mean permission to be done.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not permission to still be a child.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying some of you have a really good hearts have the desire to give your life for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have the desire to be a great husband, desire to be a great dad, maybe you're a new dad, but you're struggling like, is the hardest thing for you to get your life together and you're floundering, because hey, maybe you don't have models or nobody helped you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even simple things like, what are you good at?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are you not good at?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are the things that you should do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where should you focus your energies?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where shouldn't you who are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: How are you made?

[SPEAKER_01]: These are things that if others weren't pulling that out of you at a young age It can be really challenging when you get to this stage.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm saying all this to not only you know agree with everything You're saying but to also maybe just say to the man that's listening.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's just struggling like just and I love I want to get my life together [SPEAKER_01]: But truly, it takes surrounding yourself with the right men, putting those people in your life, humbling yourself to say, maybe even in your 30s, I don't know how to get my life together, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's stuff that I'm struggling with.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I'm not gonna, I think last time we talked about gaming, I think, again, I'm not against gaming, but I do think, and maybe I am actually, maybe you're just seeing how to receive it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Gaming to me is honestly one of those weird ones where I can't find a spot in my head because I put it in the place of entertainment but the problem is it's addictive entertainment so you spend so much time doing it and it's not again a bad thing to game.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually like if you would you know I like watching movies or documentaries like but I also have to put a cap on that you know I have to put a certain level of like why can't I only do so much with the time I have.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe you're in that space where you're just like struggling with very, you know, normal.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do I get my life together?

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe things that you're letting into your life that are very distracting to getting your life together.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you said this, you know, you use different translations.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love Eugene Peterson's paraphrase version of the Bible, the message, which I don't don't build your theology on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think when you read the scriptures a lot, I think there is so many.

[SPEAKER_01]: refreshing ways to hear the scripture if you're used to.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has a wonderful, wonderful way with language.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, it's, it's masterful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Always provocative to read how you preach.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then such a Jesus follower.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, I know a handful of guys that got to connect with him before he passed and did led just legend, but that verse that you, you were talking about, you know, where there's no vision of people perish.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think that's for your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the message, it just says if people can't [SPEAKER_01]: If fathers can't see what God is doing, they stumble all over themselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when they attend to what He reveals, they are most blessed.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I've read the message translation of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, think about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, young men live in a world where two things [SPEAKER_00]: One, they have less actual role model models, read elders, men, fathers, disciples, that are actually in person, one on one with them, calling them forward and teaching them how to get their life together, fewer connections than ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet at the same time, they have so many people talking to them online on social media on YouTube, telling them how successful they are, how much muscle mass they put on, how they eat, when they wake up in the morning, how you need to make your first million by 30 or 25 or 21, and why you need to do it this way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, so much pressure of [SPEAKER_00]: how you should be getting your life together?

[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, most of these people are falling apart and most of them will fall apart right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're not role models, but you're inundated with pressure of here's how to get your life together and yet you have very few if any elders who are one-on-one discipling you calling you forward, it is a really hard time to learn to get your life [SPEAKER_00]: watching sports until they weather, pursuing their addictions, trying to try and figure out, why can't I find a wife or why is my marriage so unhealthy or I don't really want to have kids because I'm scared I can't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, yeah, we're like less mature than ever to do these things and yet we need more help than ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So as you brought gaming to mind, I think about young men and how much they struggle to get their [SPEAKER_00]: a decade, and I had great role models.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had great disciples.

[SPEAKER_00]: People helping me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I read a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: The load was doing so many, but even me, I took a decade to learn how to get your life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of this, you know, in this episode in the next one, we just want to help people and young fathers, we're always still in this stage, we're always still trying to figure out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I often tell people, it's grace when the Lord shows you that, hey, you still have this area of life to get together.

[SPEAKER_00]: You still haven't really dealt with me here.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's like most of my lives.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so wherever you are in your your fatherhood right now, there's going to be at least some area of your life where you rise.

[SPEAKER_00]: I need to get it together here, and that's good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's, I so appreciate that perspective.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about where this all starts, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Before I do, you know, what's the first thing we need to do to get our life together?

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about that from a biblical perspective, but I do think it is, um, [SPEAKER_01]: One thing that I know you and I, very much value, is transparency, honesty, vulnerability, because nobody, I mean, the truth is, our lives are just as messy and complicated as yours are.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just easy to, because we have microphones sometimes to think that.

[SPEAKER_01]: it gives us false assumption because there's lights and cameras that like we know what's happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, don't be fooled.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I'll talk about this a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was rolling around in bed last night, alternating from anger to anxiety about something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think maybe just a highlight like, [SPEAKER_01]: Even these last two weeks, I have been so convicted by the spirit of parts of my life that I just haven't gotten together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And truly like, and areas that I would even be, I mean, it not embarrasses the wrong word, but like, just like, oh, this is so immature.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like why am I just trying to zone out through, you know, just Netflix and trying to like just go to sleep at night with just all these things on my mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather just, you know, do anything that other than focus on what I need to do and realizing like slowly over months and months and months.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't intentionally stepped into any bad habits.

[SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, I'm now all of a sudden like in this space where I'm like, oh, I don't have these habits that are not helpful for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're not immoral as much as they're just immature and unhelpful.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's bleeding out in my family, it's bleeding out in my marriage, it's bleeding out in all the things and everyone that is around me is giving me active feedback that, hey, we would like a different version of you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, and that's really hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I want, I'm saying that not to over share, but to simply give a window into, this does not stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can be on the right path, another right language, and you will still have to do the work to stay on that place.

[SPEAKER_01]: And to put the habits in place that we're going to talk about, to put the principles in place.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my favorite thing to remind men, and I love this, is the righteous man fall seven times, but he rises again.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is not about the falling.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is how you recover.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about getting up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the interesting thing, I wasn't even going to talk about this, but there's two different forms of forgiveness, or rather, is it forgiveness?

[SPEAKER_01]: What's the right word?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm going to talk about, actually, I'm teasing this out.

[SPEAKER_01]: This can be in the next episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, I can't share it because if I do share it now, we'll give everything else away.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to wait on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So put it in that this comes soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like that creating, creating, yeah, I wasn't trying to, but I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did, but can I show you up for one thing really cool?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a risk, because this needs to be cleared out early, there's a risk in talking about getting your life together that it's just another set of productivity and life hacks and man advice for young men about how we did it and how you should do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no, a follower of Jesus gets their life together in order to give it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and when you can see that you have vision you when you can see that you're getting it together in order to give it away You're blessed So that you may go blessed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're given life so that you can pour it out and lose it actually Then it then it all starts to make sense about well why why pick a career?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what why choose a wife why have kids all this stuff and you and you got there's a spiritual court of this There's a spiritual core To inverting life through rising.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's about giving it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is where it starts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think when we start with Jesus, I think it's men modeling your life after Jesus is the wisest thing you can do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you can know that at least we're life of flourishing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're hearing these words, like, your life is to get together to give it away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if that's like causing anxiety and nervousness, if you've already written this off, and you're like, I don't believe it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think can I just invite you to be curious with us for just a minute.

[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it is, is it could it be, man, this is where I'd like you to be curious, could it be that Jesus is designed you in a way that you were not always fully in access to because we live in a broken fallen space with an enemy that wants to destroy and distract us, could it be that the way to life is actually death and that what Jesus said is true and just hold space with us for a minute while we go on this because I know that you're going to, I know that even when I hear this, like my, I'm gaining all this to just give it away, I [SPEAKER_01]: I need to speak to that person and say, flourishing is better and richer than you even know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Jesus is inviting us into a full life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's an upside-down kingdom, meaning it's backwards from what the word says, world says.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so the first place we start, Matthew 1624, then Jesus said to his disciples, fathers, we'll just say, Jesus said to the fathers, whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves, take up their cross and follow me.

[SPEAKER_01]: As men the first place that we have to start with getting our life together is we have to begin with death to self.

[SPEAKER_01]: And really a better way to say that is death to desire.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, you have desires.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to be really clear.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of these desires are good ones.

[SPEAKER_01]: So don't this we're not throwing shade on desire.

[SPEAKER_01]: Desires beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: The desire to double edge swords.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: all of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like every, you know, every strength has a backside weakness, it's that kind of idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to highlight that desire is good.

[SPEAKER_01]: It drives you to marriage, it drives you to the place many of you are that are listening.

[SPEAKER_01]: It drives you to that place.

[SPEAKER_01]: It drives the success for God to use you to bless His kingdom like it's very good.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what we're talking about is desire that is driven by self.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is desire for you, for you to dominate for you to get what you want when you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: It starts with death to self.

[SPEAKER_01]: And essentially a better way to say to a different way to say it is the cross means the acceptance of limitation on desire.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say that again.

[SPEAKER_01]: The cross when we're talking about death to self, it means that you accept that there is a limitation on your desire, that there is a certain amount of desire that you aren't actually to have and is not good for you, that there's limitations on it and there's boundaries.

[SPEAKER_01]: When we talk about sex with our kids, when we talk about sex in general and FYI, we're going to have a little episode about sex.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about sex in this season which I'm excited about, but in every other facet of creation, there are boundaries.

[SPEAKER_01]: Especially around sex, think about the ocean.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's boundaries for the ocean.

[SPEAKER_01]: What happens when the ocean comes into land?

[SPEAKER_01]: If it crosses that boundary, destruction, chaos, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Simple and simple analogy.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the point being, there is a certain amount of desire that is completely destructive for you, that is not helpful, that is going to destroy your life, and then if there are not limitations on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: are really going to undo what you're trying to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where it starts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's really important to highlight what happens if you don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the Bible also tells us that which I love when we do try to just satisfy our desire, it leads to what Paul describes in Galatians five, 19, as self gratification or self-satisfaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love this list because I think we'll all find ourselves here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, I think it's really important to listen and when we're talking about this scripture this morning, I was like, what, how helpful is the Bible?

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the gospel is such a good news.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Bible is so helpful for explaining your life to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you read this verse, I mean, read it now, bro.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just showed me, oh, this is why when you let desire overrun its banks, you end up with Galatians five and 19, the acts of the flesh are obvious.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here they come, guys, sexual immorality.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all know, we, we can understand that impurity, the botry, idolatry, and witchcraft.

[SPEAKER_01]: hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissension, factions, and envy.

[SPEAKER_01]: There we go, more drunkenness, or geez, and the like, and I warn you as I did before that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe better said, it's hard to give your life away when you're living in this place.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I think maybe a different way to say it to combine it is our fatherhood needs us to have an acceptance of a limitation on our desire.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have to have a certain amount of recognition that we have to have limitation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Colossians, one more verse, kind of helps us with that word idolatry.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about you, but whenever I hear that word, I'm like, [SPEAKER_01]: create idols and like worship them, but I have just, do you want a little round with me for a second?

[SPEAKER_01]: Colossus 35, put to death, therefore whatever belongs to your earthly nature.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, saying again, death to self, death to some of the unhealthy desires.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he names a couple of things specifically around sexual immorality, says sexual immorality, impurity lust, evil desires, and greed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just has these, these three words, which is idolatry.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important that someone is an idolatry or not because they carve little idols and bow down to them but because they want things to such a degree that you're dominated by those things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that you're carving out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's that you are dominated by your desire.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is what is undoing a lot of your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you want things that others have, you resent other people.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the only true answer that we can actually have is death to self.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of our greatest temptations is that we have this level of self life.

[SPEAKER_01]: that is wanting to just take over a life of love.

[SPEAKER_01]: It hurts our families.

[SPEAKER_01]: It hurts, I mean, I experience this often.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when I get in that space from like, well, what do I want to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, that's a fine question to ask.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with asking that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when I start with that as a father, often it leads to like a level of domination in disguise.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to love my family, but really what I'm doing is I'm trying to get what I want through your list, like, domination, like, well, this is, I'm the dad, I'm the husband, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely can destroy our lives if we don't recognize that Jesus invites us to start with getting our lives together by dying to our self, by saying Jesus, I trust you, and lastly on this, whoever wants to be my disciple, Luke 9, he've heard this many times, and I'm sorry that I'm going on and on, but [SPEAKER_00]: And you can give as many speeches as you want, like, let's remind all our listeners, this is, we are, we believe the Bible, we follow the Bible, we want you too, because it's the Word of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: So anything we say, gotta be back up description.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and agreed, and it just leads to the last thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_01]: What do we do?

[SPEAKER_01]: How do we get our life together?

[SPEAKER_01]: How do we die to self?

[SPEAKER_01]: Men, can I just tell you from my own experience?

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to put your desire on the cross.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I know that sounds super Christiany.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let me say differently.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to crucify your desires.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to look at them and say, here's what's good, here's what's bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: But simply about this whole idea of getting your life together, Luke 923, whoever wants to be my disciple.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to deny yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Take a beer cross daily.

[SPEAKER_01]: Follow me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, whoever wants to save their life, you're going to lose it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But whoever loses their life for me will save it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've heard this before, but the only note on crucifixion and we're going to move on to some practical stuff is crucifixion is actually this cooperative affair between us and the Lord.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't crucify yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're trying to hang yourself on a cross, you could get one hand up, but then you're stuck.

[SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you cannot crucify your flesh.

[SPEAKER_01]: You cannot crucify this on your own, honestly you need Jesus and you need others in your life to help with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a cooperative affair where you are letting interested people [SPEAKER_01]: So here's the areas where I've let desire overrun my life and I haven't acknowledged these parts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if I can just encourage you, make this a prayer, like ask God for death to self.

[SPEAKER_01]: Say God, give it to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Give me the gift of dying to myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to take it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to lay it down for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it starts with a prayer, or give me the gift of death to self.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that that sounds weird to some, but I mean, even in certain areas of my life, I am doing that right now actively.

[SPEAKER_01]: God help me die to myself in this area.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it starts there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It starts in a deep place.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, a lot of biblical background.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when we start from that place, I think we lead into the next stages.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think one good way to frame this for people is desire is a double-edged sword.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So half of it is the beautiful God-given ambition to go make something of the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have of it is the beautiful God-given sex drive to go unite yourself with beauty, to find a wife to love her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have of it is that great, wonderful God-given desire for legacy, to raise children, to populate the earth, to leave your name behind.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that could go on.

[SPEAKER_00]: all of these things are actually beautiful calls and I am big on ambition.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very pro-sex because the Bible is very pro-sex.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very pro-let's make something in the world and so much of your early fatherhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: is about harnessing and controlling those desires.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if I think about my 20s, so much of my 20s was about trying to control my desires that were constantly overrunning their banks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, a lot of my life is still about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of my life is still there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just change.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just change.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they will get there in the subsequent episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I feel some good stories coming on.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I just think about the goodness of this that then has to be nuanced by all that you just shared broke because on the one hand, yes, the glory of your 20s and even your late teenage years, is that sense that [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully a man is calling you forward, or someone is calling you forward or God is calling you forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: A huge part of our 20s is that idea that somebody's telling us, there is something for you to do in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're so excited for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is what we call calling.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to lay out at the beginning because otherwise we'll set ourselves up for so much difficulty that this calling is for love and service.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not fundamentally for you to make a name.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that fundamentally for you to get what you want and sex?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not fundamentally for you to build a career that you're happy with and have an income that you're proud of and comfortable in.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is fundamentally to be called to make something of the world because that's like God, which is going to involve giving your life away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, if you want those things, a good career, a voice, a platform, it starts with death.

[SPEAKER_01]: It starts with Jesus deciding, it starts with you putting it on the cross and saying, I'm willing to give this to you even if it never comes about.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I cannot tell you the countless years of complete obscurity and sadness I had about my own life and what I would do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, [SPEAKER_01]: I still kind of pinched myself because I feel like God put a vision in my heart for what he wanted me to do, but it seemed so in my stage of life so outlandish, so huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: The calling was like, I didn't want to tell people because I felt embarrassed and like, I just sound really arrogant.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I tell people, you know, I want to help people in the world to these different ways and mediums.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would just feel so silly, yet God put it in my heart to pray it into being.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing I've learned over and over and over and I'm continuing to learn even now is like, man, even as things begin, I step into my calling more fully.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have to now lay down whatever things I want next to my calling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, whatever the next thing is, I'm supposed to lay that down.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm kind of comfortable with not laying stuff down anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really want to.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, I'm in the space where I'm like, I'm going, and I'm still feeling invited into note, like, are you going to give me whatever this could become?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to lay that down too?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my spirit says yes, my flesh is weak on the note though you're saying about desire being good.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could not agree with you more and we're going to share two stories and be done, but there was this comedian.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: I love, I love how, yeah, he made me watch this, yeah, I made him watch it and we laughed ourselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who was it, silly?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's his name?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm a boy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, was it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll remember soon, but he's very funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: So all I wanted to say was there was this comedian who's very funny and just on the note of like you know unbridled sexual desire and all this stuff he just basically said Do you know how much trouble this thing has given me he's talking about him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's his bandley hood He's like I have lost houses.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have lost relationships.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have lost [SPEAKER_01]: Millions of dollars because of this this if I didn't have this thing my life would be 10x easier It was so funny and it was just such a, you know, human-class way to just talk about like man some of these desires Are just they can be they can rule us in a deep way, but [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think again, we want to talk about a couple of things that are helpful on getting my life together.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a couple of things that are really important to highlight, like my parents did the best they could.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love my mom and dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: My dad is no longer here on earth and my dad had a really hard upbringing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you guys listen to season one.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you listen to season one, you know, there was a lot of complexity.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's so, so many of my friends told me you're sharing about your dad was so helpful to them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I mean, my struggle is a lot of people struggle.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think a lot of people actually grow up in this space of pain and dysfunction to an extent and brokenness and and that's life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that is a part of life and I honor my mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: I honor my dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when that episode came out, I called my mom and I said mom listen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I shared some things in a space and I want you to know that I love you in respect to you, but I want you to hear it for me before you hear it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because she listens to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, thanks for listening, Mom, slash.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like you to know, like, I honor you in respect.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know that, like, if you have questions come to me, like, we've talked about stuff, but it's like at the same time it could bring up stuff for her.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, with that same spirit of generosity, like my parents did what they could in some of the complexities they had.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was not a lot of help in the arena of getting my life together because there's a lot going on in my family during the time of my late teenage years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was really tricky to have any help in that space.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I start playing music.

[SPEAKER_01]: I start traveling around.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get into a couple different bands and I start playing dryplay drums and so I start touring.

[SPEAKER_01]: which is a great way to do with my life, but very not helpful is getting my life together because all of a sudden, I'm on stages every night and with some larger bands and larger stages and was able to make money, but it wasn't sustainable money.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, if you're on the road, you're making money, if not, you're not really making money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was also, I mean, young 20s money, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're here in pay anything that would sustain a family.

[SPEAKER_00]: 30 grand a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, big for a 20 year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm playing drums around the world for this.

[SPEAKER_01]: What?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, I was I was set and quickly realized like, this is not sustainable, but that said, [SPEAKER_01]: it wasn't helpful because I was like, I don't actually want this for my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I get back off the road and there's so many stories here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I start my wife and I dated for six months when we were 17, she broke up with me for two and a half years because she basically was like, there's no way I could see myself marrying you and just broke up with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it wasn't like a little breakup.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you really click?

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew a lot of this story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it because you didn't have your life together?

[SPEAKER_01]: that she broke up with the or was it more just absolutely are you serious she's like her words were i could i if i'm dating to have this go somewhere i could not see myself marrying a person like you these were her words okay so this is more important than i thought it was like she broke up with you [SPEAKER_01]: because she could not see herself being with a guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't have your life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not even closely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of, this is, this is where a lot of guys are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, or at least they've been there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And some of them still, some of them are now married.

[SPEAKER_00]: And their wives are looking at them saying, I need you to get your life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[SPEAKER_01]: And where it started for me, truly, I loved her so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a sense in my spirit that this was my wife.

[SPEAKER_01]: I told my friend the first damn met her.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, this is my wife.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I know people say stories like this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I literally did that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have the friend who I could tell you, who I call, he still makes fun of me for doing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was also absolutely right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's been married almost 19 years, like it was right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That said, I think though it was, it was that very fact.

[SPEAKER_01]: My life wasn't together and it started with, it actually drew me to Jesus and it was my first time in my life that I really actually, my relationship with Jesus grew.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like death to self that really got me to the point where we started working out together and one day she, these are her words, I'm, I'm [SPEAKER_01]: Passing so many good stories, which will share in the later season.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was going to start out working out together.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great way to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We went to the same gym and we were friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: We stayed friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're at the same gym.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, you showed me a couple of workouts.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we started going to the gym roughly the same time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, I like had protected my heart from her because she's, I'm never going to let myself feel anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: But one day we were like I walked out to the car or she was walking out to her car I was walking out to mine at the gym and I was you know, we were chatting for a second and later She told me she's like there was this moment where we're talking and she's like when did he become All the things I'd ever hoped for [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she was thinking this in her head at the time, I was like, yes, all, anyway, long story, so romantic, long story short, we, I get back off the road, this all happens, we start dating again, her dad, if you've met him, he's a very passionate protective loving dad, but we sit down and we tell him like, hey, we're planning on dating again, he's like, oh, that's cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, if you guys start dating again, it's a good chance you're gonna want to get married.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, maybe, and he's like, and if you get married, what if she gets pregnant, you know, soon after you get married?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, okay, and he's like, what are you gonna do to provide for my daughter?

[SPEAKER_01]: You play music on the road.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you don't have a college education.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go, father and law.

[SPEAKER_00]: What what's going on?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you gonna do?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's an elder call on you forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: To the conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hated it every second of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's her and the grateful because he said, [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I'm not going to let you get engaged to my daughter unless you have a college degree.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what, you know, essentially, it was pretty.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's what you have to understand.

[SPEAKER_01]: My family did not have that culture or value built in.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the first thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Second thing is that when I came into that space, [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you're going to tell me like you're making this a caveat, I was really frustrated.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, it can sound old, not only old fashion, but strict narrative, what one way of life, you could read a lot of things into it, but it's suspect is that he was looking at a young man who was trying to figure out how to become a man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, if you want to marry my daughter, you need to figure out how to actually be a man, and I bet he knew you well enough to know this was the right next step.

[SPEAKER_01]: He absolutely knew my family story, but already had become a father figure in many ways to me, even though I wasn't dating his daughter during some of that time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Had already become he's a pastor at the church I went to, you know, he's very much a father figure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is Phil.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's Phil.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to make Phil.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, you're going to still get one.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he did it with a smile, but I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: he's freaking serious right so anyway I I went away for like a week and a half and was so bummed and I came back and I prayed and I thought and I was like in the spirit just had my heart you know and basically just to sum up the story I came back and felt a real conviction and was like [SPEAKER_01]: I think the spirit's using you to actually highlight this in me.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I need to say, I'm not going to school for you, because you're telling me to.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have to do it for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because if I'm doing it for you, I'm going to do it for all the wrong reasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what was really cool about that is when, so I start going to school, midway through school, Elizabeth and I get engaged, get married, I was in school a couple of times.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my goal was to be done with school, you know, by the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we had our first son at a 23.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was done with school by the time you was six months old, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll never forget, you know, they called me up to something I didn't want to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think guys with getting your life together, this story hopefully highlights.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be some stuff you don't probably want to do, but it's actually very good for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I'll never forget, actually my brother-in-law, John Mark, he was also similarly excited and so he's like all host it and they threw me the most epic graduation party at their house and I mean, and the hard part about this was there's a lot of dynamics going with my family so my family came but it made them very uncomfortable because it wasn't a part of their family dynamic, you know, wasn't a part of our value system to go to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, it was a really weird juxtaposition, and at the same time, they threw me this epic graduation party.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say this as a man.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was so hard to be called up in such an aggressive way, you know, to such an aggressive task.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're asking me to give four years and thousands of thousands of dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: and men it is what I needed and I think practically so where the takeaway maybe might be for some of you is there might be an invitation of somebody or an idea calling you up and it seems like a mountain you can't climb um but honestly I think for many men it's the thing that you need to climb to begin to get your life together that's oh man I love it and so many people [SPEAKER_00]: need somebody to tell them how to get your life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say as we close here, I'll share one story and we're going to unpack it in the next episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a little trouble.

[SPEAKER_00]: getting going to college, getting degrees, educate, that was sort of my thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in my 20s, I got University of Virginia education, I got a law degree, half as seminary degree.

[SPEAKER_00]: What my dad and I'm so thankful for him did to call me forward early was there was a point right before college where I think he knew that my struggle was going to be doing it all for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I am right before the summer I'm about to go to college.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did really want high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got in a university of Virginia.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also got into some really bad habits and social circles.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he basically caught me staying out all night with a girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: that summer before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now actually for clarity and the record, we are actually just sitting by the lake talking all night.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was trouble to be honest, but but which is kind of nice, you're like, we had been relatively platonic that particularly evening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I he finds me at like 5 a.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: and instead of blowing up on me.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, let's go on a walk when you talk.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I honestly, I can't remember anything we talked about on that walk.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did feel an enormous sense of shame because I wasn't making good life decisions.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I will never forget the one thing he told me.

[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I remember is he said just in there's a lot of things I don't care about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just got in an eyebrow ring without his permission.

[SPEAKER_01]: You were the neighbor.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had a bunch of fear of six, but not that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't wait to find a photo.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just got an eyebrow ring without his permission because I don't care about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I care about is if you walk with Jesus, I want you to learn how to walk with Jesus and grow up to be a man.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it took me a long time to get my life together.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it took really my whole 20s.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I will never forget the value of a dad, Father figure and elder early on, saying, this is what this is about.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that men, young fathers, have to hear both.

[SPEAKER_00]: You do need to figure, sometimes you just need to go to school.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you need to stop that habit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you need to get a better higher paying job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you need to challenge yourself with this or that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But all of this is so that you can follow Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And give it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you got to hear those things together, but you need to get your life together, but why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because Jesus is calling you to do something with your life and that is what we'll talk about in the next one.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does it call you to do with it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so how are we, where are we going?

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to download this.

[SPEAKER_01]: What, what are, give the guys a task?

[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go from here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we got one more, we're doing one more in-depth episode on getting your life together, specifically talking about how to transition from boyhood to manhood.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so the PDF, go to the age chart.

[SPEAKER_01]: We want you guys to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great reminder, before we go to episode two, a great thing to do in between these two episodes would go down low the age chart, fill it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this can be 10 minutes, ideally though, I would say set aside a morning cup of coffee, spend half an hour, 40 minutes with it, fill out your ages.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say go from like 20 to 60, like I did, or maybe 15 to 55 something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: look at your stages of life.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to this, you're probably married and you probably have kids right down if you do, right down the ages of your wife and your children next to the years and your ages.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then look at the chart.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've given you a diagram for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Start to sketch out what phase of your life are you in?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you still getting it together?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or are you in the give it away or are you listening later and you're actually learning you need to learn how to give your death away Start to sketch it out make some notes because we will dive in To these stages in the next episodes and deeper way love it and also if you have questions send them one minute voice memo your name Where you're from that's important to hello at intentional fatherhood.org.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you on the next episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it