Welcome to the Sound On Sound People & Music Industry podcast channel with me, Kevin Paul. In this episode, I talk to John 'Spud' Murphy, an Irish based producer and mixer. John talks to me about setting up for folk music in Ireland and how to bring something different to the table as a producer. And he also discusses the many ways in which he tries to get the band to feel as comfortable as possible in the studio and the relevance of that in recording. Hey, John, how you doing? Hey, Kevin, how are you? Thanks for asking me on. I'm good. Thank you. It's great that you're here and I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me. I thought we'd start with a question that's been on my mind actually, is where does the Spud come from? Yeah, I'll give you the short version of it. Well, like, just in Ireland, Murphy's are the, is the most common surname. And then John is the most common forename. So then the potato is the most common vegetable. So hence the nickname. That's excellent. Thank-you for explaining that. No worries. Yeah, I'm sure the listeners will be delighted to know that. Yeah, yeah. No, I've tried to get rid of it over the course of my life, but it keeps following me around, so just have to embrace it now, I think. Well, it certainly, it singles you out, makes you distinctive, doesn't it? You don't forget Spud. Yeah, yeah, true, true. Which came first, live sound or studio sound first came, like, I suppose I played in a lot of bands in my late teens and early twenties and then a lot of those were cover bands to make money for college. So I took it upon myself to do the live sound for the cover bands when we were gigging around at the weekend. So started doing a little bit of that and then as I progressed into writing music with original bands and we started using studios, yeah, I just developed an interest and just went to college to learn a few things. Did you like what you were doing in the studio? How did you get captivated by that studio moment? You know, like for me, I always wanted to work in the studio 'cause that's kind of where I felt really comfortable. I'm absolutely hopeless at live sound. I think I was just really impressed by all the equipment and what you could do with the computer. And I just, it kind of blew my little mind at the time that everything could be separated out and manipulated individually. And I remember, you know, asking the engineer who was working with us at the time, going, is that what, what's that doing? What is that? And that's just on that channel. And, you know, like I was only 18 I think, at the time. So I didn't have any right, any background at all, so just a curiosity. Curiosity. Yeah. And then, yeah, I was playing in a lot of original bands then in my early twenties and studios were quite expensive and then I would always have like a DIY kind of punk part of my brain that was like, oh, I'll just do it myself, kind of thing, you know? So let's figure out what's going on, or, you know, let's start, I can get the easy stuff done and tracking the basic things and maybe get a mix engineer involved at some later stage. With your experience in live and the studio, do you try to bring elements of one into the other? So when you're doing a live show, are there elements from live from the studio that you might kind of want to bring in and vice versa when you are in the studio? Yeah, definitely. I like, I suppose I wouldn't really consider myself a live engineer. The, like, I would've done bits of it over the course of, uh, course of my early years. But, um, it was ma I mainly started doing live engineering when I'd started working with Lancome and they were having difficulties on the road with, uh, lots of feedback and just engineers not understanding what their instruments were to begin with, you know, and then how to, how to mic them up. So, and I started working recording with them, so I was like, I'll help you out. I'll go on the road with you to, to make things easier. Initially it was to just like get a, a kind of a template together and like do a, I suppose nearly like a production or pre-production, but on the roads to like say, buy these microphones and everything will be fixed. And then it just kept, uh, progressing over the course of the years. And then as we went into, you know, mixing albums or recording albums that I did with them later, um, there was production ideas that went into the records that I was kind of excited about trying on a PA or in a live scenario. So, yeah, like I suppose the main, the first main thing was, or the thing that kind of, that I figured out with Lankum that really worked for the studio sound was like adding in a lower octave on certain instruments. So I started bringing a pog with me to live shows, to send those instruments into an octave down and yeah, the, and there was other like elements that I was like messing around with sample rates to get, but I started to just, I improvise using reverbs with them instead to achieve something similar. And then, yeah, it's, it's the same with everything that you, you know, you kind of, you're learning on the job and experimenting and that's why it kept me interested in it for so many years. Let's talk about Lankum actually, because their last album in 2023 was nominated and had a lot of critical acclaim and I, doing my research for the interview today, I had a really good listen to it and I mean, there's just some incredible textures there. What was the concept behind that and how did you approach recording with the band? Because I read in an interview somewhere saying that, you were saying that because folk music traditionally doesn't really have bass, they don't really have bass guitars. But you, like you've just said, with your pedals and your octaves, decided to put some of that in to their sound, I guess, right? Yeah. How did that sort of come about? How did you sort of put that to the band? Were they up for that? So yeah, the, I think the, the lower octave thing that, so yeah, like I think about 10 years prior to that, I was studying in the conservatoire in the south of Ireland in the Cork School of Music and I was recording like string quartets and. Small orchestras there, just for my own kind of pleasure and for experimental reasons. And over the course of that process, I started to, yeah, manipulate the organic textures and, but to try hold them in an organic world rather than making it sound digital. So I developed a couple of techniques and using different plugins and compressors, et cetera. Um, and then IKI kind of, that has been one of the main parts of my sound, I think, since, since that period. And I would've like, made appearances on many records that I did over the, uh, the next few years. But I, yeah, Lankum were the first folk band that I would've worked with. And yeah, the first thing that I noticed was the gaping hole in the, the lows and low mids. So we did, I did it. The first time I worked with them was a, like for a TV show. And after tracking it I, the experiments that I'd done in the school of music kind of popped into my head and I was like, I think I'll be able to use some of that on this recording, but still hold it because it was a live performance. So it still obviously had to sound very live and unprocessed and I, I did it and lo and behold it, it really worked. It worked better than any other band I'd used it on because of, again, there's no bass. There's, yeah, the lowest element in it was the estring on the guitar or whatever, you know, so then, yeah, the next thing I worked with them on was mixing a record they did called Between the Art and Sky and, yeah, mainly low end manipulation. And that record was eq and then I did some like amping in a church of some of the lower elements. Just to get a more atmosphere. Um, but I didn't use any of the, the like sub manipulation. And then on the live long day, which was the first record that I recorded with them, um, one of the first tracks we did was the Wild Rover. And as soon as we did the first take, uh, or got the, got the core take that we were going to use, I got ready to. Uh, triple Tracker Baan, which is like a big Accord Russian accordion. And, uh, I dropped one of those down in Octave just to show them what could, what, what could be done. And they, they all really loved it. So, yeah. That, that sounds cool. Yeah. So like, I think it was like the live long day. Record was, uh, like how we kind of figured out our work process or you know, how everyone became comfortable with each other in the studio. And um, then when we moved on to the next record, we had a good few years experience working with each other. So it all just became like second nature. And yeah, it was all very like. Easy for want of a better word. Um, yeah. That we, yeah, basically we all know what everyone's into and what buzzes everyone out. So when you are working with, let's say, a newer band, some, a band that maybe knows of you, but they have not worked with you, what, what's your approach to getting a band to perform in the studio? Because. The studio's quite a sterile space. I know that you can create kind of atmosphere, but really the, the, the atmosphere and, and the, the delivery of the, of the recordings have to come from the playing and, and the, the intention in, in the room. As the producer, how do you go about settling people so they can perform? The main thing I do is just try to make a really comfortable. Environment for everybody so that Yeah. That nobody's, uh, feeling awkward or nervous or, uh, yeah. Apprehensive about what's gonna happen. Like, because I was a musician I, in my earlier years, I understand the, the fear that comes with the red light being turned on in the studio. Yeah. Um, so I just try to, I dunno, alleviate as much of that as possible. Is there any particular way that you, you get them to do that? Like, is it literally just communication? Is it literally just being set up and ready to go? What's your kind of like strategies around that? It's funny you said that like communication, 'cause like I think that's the, one of the most important parts of, uh, producing or engineering, like, and there's so many subtype or little bits to it where it's, you know, trying to describe a sound using words. Yeah. To, yeah, just being a nice human and spot and when someone is feeling a bit, um, stressed out or conscious about what they're doing to like massage egos and just make, yeah, just to make everyone feel that they're in a, a safe space and allow them to do what they do best. That's the reason that everyone is in with me or that they're in a recording studio is because they love what they're doing and yeah. Uh, they're good at it. And it's just kind of reminding them that, of that in, uh, various different ways. As professionals that maybe have worked in studios for, for decades, we possibly get really comfortable in the studio. But for a lot of people, it's their first time or their second time in the studio. And actually it's quite a big deal for them, you know? So they do come in nervous and they do come in worried and they do come in not sure of what the process is exactly. You know, and, and for me, yeah, it's really important to remind myself that for the artist. It's a big moment for me. It's an everyday thing. Luckily, music is such a funny thing that in the rehearsal room you're like free and you allow the music to dictate where. Where it goes. But then you come into like a studio environment and it is clinical and you're, everyone just becomes self-conscious of microphones and Yeah. And then you're, the whole way through the recording process, you have like an a memory of when you played the track correctly or when you, where you played your part. Right. And you're trying to achieve the same level of precision, even though that. Is just a memory in your mind, and it's very subjective. You could have actually been playing it really bad in your rehearsal space, but you have that memory, so you're trying to achieve that. And, and if you, if you're not hitting the, the same level of performance, you, you can start, uh, spiraling in your own head about how you're not good enough, et cetera. So, yeah, and, and like that spiraling used to happen to me like. A crazy amount, like especially in the studio, but also in like even live scenarios that you make a little mistake and you start giving out to yourself and. Yeah. Then because you're given out to yourself, you make another mistake and, and it just Yeah. Keeps snowballing. How do you alleviate that with them? Yeah. I think the most important part is spot. Being able to spot it when it's, when it's happening, and to be able to nip it in the bud. Um, yeah. So as soon as I'll see a band struggling or yeah, having personal issues or whatever, I'll, I'll just like call a break or. Yeah, just go into the room with them and have a chat and maybe just pretend I'm moving microphones around or whatever. Or just try get some confidence back into the room. But like a, a lot of the time you can just be like flogging a dead horse, especially if, if you allow that to fester, um, once negativity comes into the room, it's really hard to get rid of it. So, yeah, normally just have to get everyone outta the room and refresh. What's your motivation when you're working with the band? What's, how, how are you approaching that? Yeah, like it's, for me personally, it's, it's very different for every record. I think. Um, like I'll, normally a band will get onto me or a artist or whatever will get on and yeah, if, if, if something sparks inside me when I listen to the demos, I'll agree to do it. And then always in that first listen or second listen to the demos. I'll have. An idea of what might be a cool way to approach it. And then I'll like discuss that with the band over a Zoom call or a, a coffee or whatever, um, to see if they're into that idea. And then it's, it is normally a collaborative process. Process of like, yeah, I'll say, I think it'd be cool if we keep this track really minimal or we. Elaborate on this one. Open it up in the, into, in this section, close it down here. Um, and it's just more to see how into it they are. Um, as in the how, how into it, the band are to make sure we're both on the same, the same path. Um, but yeah, like every, every record is, is very different. Um, a different process. Like I noticed lots of producers and. Engineers that, uh, like ha have the same template that they use for every, every recording. And I have a lot of respect for that. But, uh, that's, that's not, um, anything that would inspire me or keep me interested in it. Yeah, I was just about to ask you that actually, John. Um, you come in with maybe some ideas and what happens if the band are, are resistant to that, what's your approach to. Either win them over and or go with their direction. How do you navigate those tricky environment discussions about direction? Yeah, I suppose it's like, it's like, uh, down to trust again. Um, like the, obviously the band have been playing their music and have their sound. They know more than anybody how it should sound, or at least they, they know how it should sound in their head. So like, I'm just a, I dunno, I've kind of a media mediary to translate what's coming outta their instruments through the microphones and onto the speakers and to get it sounding as close to what's in their head as possible. So, like, I generally won't ever argue with bands if I, if I'm, uh, if I'm pretty confident that they're. Going in an incorrect direction. I will, I will say it, um, or make, make my voice heard. But um, yeah, I, I always like, even if there is initial, um, ne if there's an initially a negative response there, there will be some sort of middle ground that we'll be able to land on because, right. Yeah. There's a, you know, there's a reason that I'm. Working with them, there's a reason you, yeah. Asked me to do this. This is what I think should happen. Uh, you like what I've done before? So, yeah. Yeah. Do you find yourself having to maybe go through their way for them to kind of get it out of their system and then go, okay, well. Can we try this way? Yeah. A lot, A lot of times that will, that will happen. Like, uh, I, I think initially as well, with a, especially when I'm working with a band for the first time, I will when we, we'll, we'll set up and we'll start tracking the first track, and I might have an idea about how it should go down, but they're, yeah, they're setting it up in a way that's different to my, what's in my brain, but I'll, I'll let that play out. And get it in as good as possible as that. And then when we come out to have a listen to the take, then I will say, I think it could be cool if we try this instead so that I'm not battling against their, um, ideas immediately before it's even being translated onto the speakers. The sounds that you are kind of known for this sort of ambient, um, atmospheric. Textures. How are you creating those? I mean, you, you mentioned already about using the pedals, but you also mentioned that maybe you use some plugins and stuff. Do you use things like, um, I dunno if, if you remember the old Roland Reverb machines where you could trap the reverb and it just plays in an endless loop. How are you creating some of these very, very unusual and exciting sounds in, in the records that you're working with? Again, it's, it's very different depending on each, each record. Um, like, and again, it kind of de depends on what has interested me over the past couple of months. Um, like most of the plugins I use are really standard. Like the main reverb I use is. Foul hollow room. And then I think with any of the, like the interesting textures, I'll generally like co coming towards the end of each day when everyone's getting a bit tired, I, I'll like give someone a different instrument and we'll do something a bit interesting with the setup of it. We'll like have someone playing, uh, some sort of a strange guitar and then I'll. Put the expression pedal down on the piano and I'll mic up the piano and then we'll try and get a cool sound of the, the reverb of the soundboard of the piano. Yeah. We'll, like get out the, the space echoes. It's normally like, it's like putting people into like a, outta their comfort zone to a certain extent, but also like being really lighthearted with it and. You know, you're not ex expecting any virtuous soul performances from what we're doing here. This is just like a field thing and a, we're just trying to create a bit of atmosphere. Uh, and then a lot of it will be like, uh, the song is in Sea Minor, so we've got a lot of CE flat and g running the whole way through the track. Uh, let's add in some textures up high, but we're not gonna play. CE flat and g will play all the other notes of the C minor scale, but we'll leave out those ones and then we'll start like manipulating those and spinning them around the room. We'll reamp them into, uh, uh, a guitar amp with some delay in verb on it. Yeah. That it, it it kind of, yeah. Every, everything is very different. Like, uh, I normally, um, uh. I dunno, I, I, I, I trust my, my first instinct a lot or my gut with a how to. Yeah. If I have an I, as we're going through a track, if I have an idea, I'll, I'll normally, like at the end of the day, do a little experiment to see if it's gonna work. Uh, and then a lot of, a lot of those ambiences can come from that. Tell me if I'm wrong, I'm assuming that maybe would lay down. You know, a load of soundscapes, and then in the mix you'll manipulate those and Exactly. Bring them in, bring them out, and try and create the atmosphere. I generally end up with far too many tracks in my final project. Um, and I also, I kind of, I don't have any rules, but. The, if I have a rule, it's that, um, ideas aren't thrown in the bin before we, uh, hear how they sound. So, you know, a lot of people can be offended if, uh, someone says, oh, what, why don't we try this? Or like, oh, no, I don't, I don't think that'll work. But like, they still haven't heard the sound that the is in the person's head that they're trying to communicate. So, yeah. Yeah. I'll generally, uh. Allow all of these, uh, ideas to go in. And then they're all just putting a folder and muted and we work on the main track, getting the vocals in or whatever. And then when we come to, um, mix time, we have like, uh, a little treasure trove of muted tracks that it, you know, it's like, oh, the, the second course isn't working. And it's like, cool. Let's, let's have a look and see what we have extra in my head, recording is a time for just. Trying stuff. Right? Exactly. Yeah. Like literally just throw everything out, you know, if you want to try, we, we've got plenty of time and there's plenty of processes further down the line to. Edit or manipulate or reject or enhance. But that recording session for me, and it sounds like it is for you as well, is Okay, nothing's off limits, let's throw it all out there. Exactly. Yeah. And then we see where we are at the end of, of, of the day or the end of the session. Again, I will normally like stack all that experimental stuff towards the end of the day so that I'm not Yeah, taking up time when people are fresh and. Are full of energy they want to play. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's normally when everyone's brain is a little bit, uh, psychedelic and Yeah. Thinking about the chilling out so far. Yeah. Yeah. You're mixing very traditional instruments and very traditional music with experimental sounds. How do you go about that? In a, like a, in a, well, just getting, getting that balance between what's maybe a lot of people when they're mixing, right, they're always struggling to, to get definition or to get their instruments heard or to get the sounds heard. How do you go about making sure that the vocals, the drums, and you know, the acoustic based instruments are all there and then all of a sudden you've got this kind of atmosphere coming in. Yeah. How do you manage to balance that out? When we go back to how I tracked everything, like I'll take in too many microphones on each instrument as well, so I'll like, right. You know, with the obvious one is like the drum kit. You'll have everything close mic, and then you'll have medium rooms, and then you'll have far rooms. But like, if it's a, a fiddle or a acoustic guitar, I'll, I'll think of it in a similar way that like, I'll take into di of the guitar, even though I'm. 99%. I'm not, I'm not going to use the di, but the di can be repurposed for, you know, sending into some effects unit and you might get something interesting or will distort it, or will destroy it or whatever. Um, so yeah, I'll have like different, you know, the main thing I, I, I was trying to get at by saying that was I will take every element in like clean or, you know, I'll. Try capture it as if we're not gonna be manipulating it or putting any weird effects on it so that, you know, it'll sound like a fiddle, it'll sound like an acoustic guitar. And then I'll have like, uh, different buses underneath each one of those elements that yeah. Will be the, the, the weirder elements to the sound that we can turn up and down and, um, like prior to. Fab Filter Pro Q3. I would've had an awful lot of, uh, editing to do in the mix process for like side chaining frequencies. Um. From different, uh, the other instruments side, chaining something else. But then the Pro Q3 came out. Maybe there was a plugin before, um, before that one that did something similar. But if there was, I wasn't aware of it. Um, so I'll have a lot of side chaining going on, on my i my master buses. That's another thing actually, I, I, IUI use a huge amount of buses. So like, say I'll have, uh, clean, clean guitar, we'll all be getting summed down to. Its own individual bus, and then the dirty guitar will be getting summed into its own bus, and then the two of those buses will be getting summed into another bus. And then that will be, say for instance, guitar one. And then if that guitar one is part of a section of guitars, they will all be getting bused into another bus. Which will be intro guitar or whatever. And then, then at the very bottom of my project window, I'll have like a final guitar, which is all the layers of guitars will be going into that bus. I try to leave that final guitar bus, um, as clean as possible. But if we have drums in it or if the bass and the guitar are clashing, I will have my side chaining going on in, in that area of like ducking frequencies. When. The base is hitting around the same area or the kick drum or whatever. Um, and then, so that, that, that's for like the overarching tone of the mix. And then within each of the parts, there'll be some side chaining going on. Again, frequency ducking mainly frequency ducking to try hold, uh, hold space for, for the primary elements of the mix. Because like, yeah, the, the, you know, the main, the main things are still the, what the band are playing in the room, not the. Not the atmospheres. The atmospheres are just trying to give a a tone or a texture or a feeling, and they'll normally hover in the background. Unless we're going into like a middle section where it's supposed to be in, we're going into dreamland, you know? Right. Yeah, yeah, of course. And they become a feature. Yeah. Do you mix in the box entirely or are you using a combo of. Outboard and studio, what's your process there? A lot of it is in the box and then I do use some, um, some outboard stuff. I have a lot of outboard stuff, but over the course I like. And the main, um, the main plugin processor I use is Universal Audio and. For some reason it's like, as if they're, uh, stalking me or something. They keep bringing out plugin versions of all my hardware. So it just, uh, and they sound really good and they obviously have instant recalls, so Yeah. Yeah, it's like even they brought out a culture vulture a couple, I dunno, maybe last year. And I was like, why, why are you doing that to me now as well? But um, yeah, it's, I think just as I'm looking around here, I think there is a. A universal audio plugin for everything I have, but I will, yeah. I, I, I'll, I will still use some of it, especially if I'm, yeah. If I'm running into a, an issue, um, in, in a, you know, with a certain element, I'll, I'll just have to Yeah. Go for an EQ or a compressor outta the box and bring it back in. I do, yeah. I, I, um, I do use quite a bit of, uh. I've got a FA space Echo 5 0 1 and a 2 0 1. Yeah, I do use bits of those. Uh, the 5 0 1 has a really good, I love the chorus on it so that I do reach for that quite a bit. Um, and then, yeah, like I, I've a, a friend of mine, uh, he's like a, he plays, plays in bands, but he's a, he's a pedal builder and he's a, he's very good at, it's called Moose Electronics. But, um, he's just after building me a couple of, uh. Noise boxes for, they're like, he, he makes fuzz pedals, but he's after making me like line level Yeah. Fuzz boxes that I've started to use. Um, yeah, I do, I do have quite a few, uh, guitar pedals. And you're just, you're just manipulating and playing with those even in the mix stage. Yeah. Like I, I, I'll always track track them in 'cause it's, yeah. It's too, it's too messy to be. Opening them up. Like I, I, I used to use external reverbs, but yeah, I, again, it's like kind of too messy changing between songs and you want different sounds in each one. And I think, yeah, like as computers have gotten better, the re reverbs have also gotten really good and have a lot of depth and yeah. They changed again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they've just bought out a new Yeah, I saw out the future verb. Yeah. All. Yeah, it looks really good. Yeah. And initial report, I mean they're, they're good products anyway and obviously Universal Audio are absolutely fantastic with their remodeling. They are indeed. Yeah. Yeah. I just heard the Ocean Ocean Wave Studios a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. And I've used the Sand City one in that as well, but like, yeah, so like, 'cause there's a noise rock band I'm working with at the moment. The easy way would've been to like, put the guitars into the Sound City room and, uh, to get a room tone off it. But, uh, instead we went about, yeah, we just amped the entire album into the, the main room with a variety of different, uh, room mics in it. So plugins are great, but it is sometimes it's cool to just be creative and be very, just have some fun. Right. Very specific. Yeah. Yeah. And it like. You're gonna feel more proud of that guitar sound that took, I dunno, a couple of hours of setting microphones up and adjusting their phase, et cetera. You know, instead of just put lashing a plugin onto it and. Uh, yeah, that, I mean, you know, obviously plugins are very convenient, but there is that element of uniqueness and individuality. Exactly, yeah. That comes from the spaces that, that, that you work in, in an analog domain. I mean, everything's pretty much always unique. Um, and I think a lot of that is missing, right? I think a lot of that is missing in modern recording and mixing. I know like in, in the UK you have the likes of BBC six, et cetera. But, uh, in Ireland we don't, we, we used to have, uh, independent radios that we're doing okay, but they all have disappeared. But, um, well, sorry, there is Dublin Digital Radio, but like an actual frequency that you can dial into on your, uh. Car HiFi or whatever, um, doesn't really exist. So anytime I, I do, when I'm skimming through the radio and I just hear like the current wave of pop music, it's, uh, yeah, everything just kind of sounds the same and doesn't have any Yeah. Individuality. Um, I know that's probably been going on for decades and. You know, a lot of, there's been a lot of talk about like naughties, rock music, et cetera, and how it kind of destroyed rock music. But um, yeah, I think it, like modern music does have a tendency to just devour itself and get rid of all the nice parts. What are you up to at the moment? Like, can you talk about any of the projects that you're on? Yeah, like, I'll just pull, pull up with the, it's, it's quite, it's kind of mad, but it is, uh, maybe a little bit of the way my, my brain works. I do tend to enjoy different, different extremes of things. Um, I am working on, so, yeah. Uh, English band, um, called Nod, um, I'm not sure if you've ever come across them. Drawn rocket recordings. Yeah. So yeah, I had them over, uh, earlier in the year and. Yeah, they somehow managed to record three, three albums in six days. Um, okay. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, just at the finishing stage of album two of that one, um, yeah, don't wanna be giving away too much, but album one is kind of, yeah. Psychedelic, crowdy vibes. And then album two is punishing noise rock. But, um, there's a, there's a quite, quite a lot of stuff, um, I'm working on, uh. Yeah. Solo album for one of the members of Lancome that will hopefully be out next year. Another band called, uh, the Bunk, an Irish band called The Bunk. But this is like a spinoff project from that, that's kind of, yeah, it's, it's very unique sounding. Um, lots of keys and really interesting arrangements. Um, I've just recorded a, uh, classical contemporary album for a composer called Sean Clancy. Um, okay. I was, for the most part of October, I was in a church in Wicklow working with an artist called, uh, Anika. Um, so that, that was quite interesting. That was like capturing, um, an organ in a church, which, uh, along with like guitars and horns. Yeah, so it was, uh, quite stressful. I, I'm not sure if you've recorded in churches before, but, um, it's just Reverb central. Reverb central, and then the, they don't really have much insulation in them, so number one, you're freezing. And then number two, you hear everything from outside of the church coming in. Um, yeah. But yeah, I'm just, I'm just getting through the rough comps of that at the moment and really happy with how it sounded. Uh, great. And a new record for a. Irish artist called Junior Brother. That's, that's nearly tracked now as well. And actually, sorry, Anna Welch Welch, uh, contemporary singer called BET on Lloyd. Um, yeah, that's, we've been working on an album for the guts of a year now, so that's nearly, nearly ready to go. Well, I'll, I'll look out for all of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite a bit. Um. Yeah. Where can people find you, John? If they want to know a bit more about John and how to get hold of him, where can they find you? I have a website. I think it's called johnspudmurphy.com. But okay and on Instagram. Thanks again so much for taking some time out of your seemingly very busy schedule. No worries, man. Yeah. To, uh, to speak with me and I, I've really enjoyed the conversation with you. I hope to speak to you again sometime. Yeah, likewise. Uh, thanks very much for having me on. I'm a big fan of Sound On Sound. Thank-you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes page for this episode where you'll find further information along with web links and details of all our other episodes. And just before you go, let me point you to the soundonsound.com/podcasts website page where you can explore what's playing on our other channels. This has been a Mixbus production by me, Kevin Paul, for Sound On Sound.