Kevin Paul:  Welcome to the Sound On Sound People & Music Industry podcast channel with me, Kevin Paul. In this episode, I talk with Pascal Gabriel about his career as a songwriter, producer and artist. It's a legacy episode from 2020 and we talk about the creation of Stubbleman, songwriting and being a producer in the modern age. Welcome to Mixbus. Pascal Gabriel: Happy to be here. Kevin Paul: Thank-you, thanks for taking the time. Let's talk about Stubbleman. Pascal Gabriel: Well a couple of years ago I was looking for inspiration and I thought I would do a road trip. I wanted to do a road trip in the US and really go back to the places that, the area and the places whose music had given me some much inspirations over the years. I decided that we were going to kind of basically drive across the states from New York state all the way to California in a very roundabout way. We went across Tennessee, we did Alabama, Mississippi, we went to many, many places and as I always do when I travel, I took a little MacBook, a keyboard and just jotted down some ideas. I also did a lot of field recordings, I always do a lot of field recordings when I travel anyway and about two thirds of the way of the trip, I realised actually I've got quite a lot of ideas there and I should really do an album with this, this is really going quite well. I had about 40 ideas by the time we ended up in California and I narrowed it down to about 25, which I produced and finished and about, well, 11 of them made it really to the album. I've got another couple of pieces that probably I'll put out as freebies after the album's released, 11 tracks really that were really worth it and so I finished them off, they're completely instrumental tracks using a lot of the field recordings that I used, recorded on the trip. It was an interesting thing because I realised actually if I mix the field recordings with the music from where it was created, it really gave it a bit of extra depth, you know it was very interesting. Like for instance, when I did A Party Wolf, which was recorded in New Orleans, I mixed the kind of water sounds - we were by the river and I mixed the water sounds with the piano and tune them to the piano and suddenly I had this kinda weird underwater piano sound which was which we made it kind of more poignant and suitable for the piece of music. So it was interesting. It was a project I've always wanted to do. I mean, I've always wanted to do an instrumental album ever since I started making music and because I was quite good I guess of making pop music, I had never had the time, you know? And as I get older, I just think I've gotta take two years off and do this and so that's kind of what I'm doing basically and it's called... Kevin Paul: Fantastic. I mean, I listened to the album quite a lot actually. Pascal Gabriel: Thank-you very much. Kevin Paul: And it sounds lovely. Pascal Gabriel: Thank-you very much. Kevin Paul: I mean, the soundscape and the bass, the bass is one of the things that I really love on the record, it's so big and warm. Pascal Gabriel: Thank you. Kevin Paul: And I was speaking with Gareth Jones as well. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, he mixed it with me, yeah. Kevin Paul" Yeah and I was telling him about that and he was like, oh very pleased, I'm very pleased to hear that. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, I guess I used to be a bass player, so the bass is important. Kevin Paul: I know you used to be a bass player with The Razors. Pascal Gabriel: That's correct, yeah. Kevin Paul: That's The Razors. That was your, was that one of your first bands? Pascal Gabriel: It was, it was the first band, yeah. Kevin Paul: Right back in, obviously in Belgium. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, yeah. Kevin Paul: Did you go on the road trip with just yourself and your wife, or was that with... Pascal Gabriel: Just with my wife and I, yeah, yeah. Kevin Paul: And the sounds that you are using on the record, you mentioned the water. What other sort of things made the record, like just birds or traffic or people? Pascal Gabriel: Loads of different things, yeah we did bird sounds, we, there's a cabbie called, well I don't actually cabbie, the cab, there's Carol the cabbie from Austin, but she didn't make it on the record, but she makes it on live. Live is quite a different proposition. I used quite a lot, I used a lot, even a lot more of the recordings I didn't use on the record, I used them on live. So yeah, there's birds, there's all sorts of things really, river sounds, obviously car sounds, road sounds yeah, people talking, knocking things, bells. Stuff, you know, whenever else there's anything that could hit or make a noise out of, I'd make a, I'd hit hit and make it or scratch it or make a noise out of something and then record. Kevin Paul: Oh wow. And then you were processing the sounds when you come back Pascal Gabriel: Yeah process the sound later, yeah yeah, exactly. I got a little recorder here, is it here? Actually I'm not sure. Kevin Paul: Just like a little Zoom thing or... Pascal Gabriel: It is exactly that. It's a Sony one but it's a very similar thing. I call it Hairy Guy for obvious reasons, you'll see why. Kevin Paul: Stubbleman and Hairy Guy. Pascal Gabriel: Well you'll see why it's called a Hairy Guy because that is what it looks like. Kevin Paul: Oh yeah of course, yeah. He's got a little bit of hair on top. Pascal Gabriel: He's a hairy guy, you can take a photo of him. Kevin Paul: I will, that'd be great for the... Pascal Gabriel: And I've got this heavy, this is Heavy Guy and I've got Hairy Guy's friend... Kevin Paul: Super Hairy Guy. Pascal Gabriel: Super Hairy Guy, yeah. And they, you know they, yeah, they come with me wherever I go. So you just record stuff and I probably used I would say a small percentage, 10% maybe of the field recording that I did, not even that, but it's what suited, you know, what worked. Kevin Paul: Yeah, it's a lovely space, it's a lovely record. Pascal Gabriel: And it just gives something, a little bit of dirt and a bit of character and it's just makes it a bit more special, you know and it's so, what was really interesting for me with this project is that it was so far removed from the pop world I've been involved with for the last few years so yeah, so it was great, I really enjoyed it, so I'm really pleased it's taking off. Kevin Paul: Are you happy in the studio, do you like being in the studio? Pascal Gabriel: I love being in the studio, yeah yeah. Kevin Paul: Is that, do you feel more comfortable in here in the studio than you do on the stage? Pascal Gabriel: Oh god, yeah. Yeah yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's my domain. I play the studio, that's my instrument really. Kevin Paul: Is that something that you were drawn to initially or is it something you stumbled upon by accident? Pascal Gabriel: It's a good question. I think the thing, well I know the thing that really attracted me to the studio is that there were no argument with the drummer or the bass player or other members of the band. I was the band, I could do every, I could play every instrument. When I first started working in the studio in Leyton in, it must have been '82, something like that, maybe even a bit earlier, I had only an 8 track, but they had a really nice big desk and 8 track was brilliant you know, you could bounce things and you could do a whole song. Kevin Paul: The Fostex one maybe? Pascal Gabriel: No, it was a Revox. Kevin Paul: Oh wow, fantastic. Pascal Gabriel: It was a good machine, I can't remember what it was, I think it was a Revox. It wasn't the Fostex, it was way before Fostex did it. It was great and I really loved the fact that, you know, if I wanted this drum part, I had the drum part, you know, I recorded the 808 had just come out and so you could program things on the 808 and you could then, you know, and then the Bell delay sampler thing came out. Kevin Paul: Oh yeah, the old Bell delay, yeah. Pascal Gabriel: So you could lock real snare sounds into it and triggered by the 808, whatever, you know and you spend, I spend all night after sessions just doing my own music, you know and that was really great. I mean, I love that much more than being in bands. I mean, it's not that I don't like working with people, I love working with people, but I like, I suppose that's probably why I naturally progressed towards being a producer. I kind of like to guide things my way to where I think the completion should be. If you are in a democratic band as such, often people want to go left, right and center and backwards and it's very hard for a project to kind of, to drive a project towards the same direction, you know. Kevin Paul: What makes a good producer of other people's music, because you mentioned working with bands and the interpolitics of bands. How would you define that role? Pascal Gabriel: I think you become the fifth member. You need to gain their trust and also not being shy of criticising certain things and not being shy of taking things into your, of getting hold of the reigns and going, this horse is going that way, what do you reckon, you know, and them going, yeah okay, that sounds like a good direction and they, you know, I'm talking very broadly here... Kevin Paul: Of course, yeah. Pascal Gabriel: But like for instance with Inspirals, one of the first things we did was doing loads of rehearsals with them, we just went to loads of rehearsals and in the rehearsal room I had a drumstick and a blackboard where I'll have sections of the song, like intro verse, chorus, second verse, second, you know, and so on and.. Kevin Paul: The structure, the arrangement, yeah? Pascal Gabriel: The structure and you know they, at times they had you know, not particularly them but other bands as well, have very long intro, very big middle 8 that just comes in far too late in the song, all that sort of stuff and so I would just basically as they run through the track I'd kind of go chorus, so they'd kind of, they'd be in the middle of the verse, you know... Kevin Paul: Right, conducting, pointing at the board going okay, chorus here. Pascal Gabriel: Chorus here, yeah. Kevin Paul: Now the middle 8. Pascal Gabriel: And they'd be in the middle of the verse, you know, but it would just kind of, you would get the structure that flows in an interesting way and make the song much more exciting you know like for instance, I can't remember which song, but there was a song that we did that it had the middle 8 that went on for like 72 bars and I said that's no good and we couldn't quite work out where the chord progression would fit for the chorus coming out of the middle 8, so we just ran to the middle 8 and I just go, I just did it instinctively, I went boof and suddenly it worked and it was all good. Kevin Paul: Fantastic. Pascal Gabriel: You know, so you kind of work it out that way also,ou know. So in a way it's definitely being the fifth member because when you are making a record it's very different than doing stuff live, you know. Live you can get away with 72 bars middle 8 because there's someone dancing and moving stuff in front of you, flashing lights, but on a record, you've gotta really just be quite snappy, I think. Especially in this kind of music. I mean the music I do with Stubbleman is very different. Kevin Paul: Very different of course, yeah. There's a particular space though, isn't there. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah. Kevin Paul: What about engineers in your work, because you engineered a lot of your work yourself, right? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah I did it in the beginning. Kevin Paul: But then after a while, you maybe used another engineer within your work. Pascal Gabriel: Yes I did, yeah. Kevin Paul: How important is that role of the engineer with the producer for you? Pascal Gabriel: Well, it's very important I think, well for me to what, you mean the role of me being the engineer and the producer or... Kevin Paul: Well that is one thing in itself but I mean more like, say if you're hiring, for instance yourself and I, we worked, we did some work on Peach. I was the engineer with you, I wasn't mixing the record. How important is that role with the producer and the engineer? Pascal Gabriel: Well, I think it's very important because you need to trust the engineer to know, to get things working the way that you want it to work and the fact that I think I was a producer and an engineer, formerly an engineer, made it a lot easier for me to understand the difficulties of, you know, getting a drum kit set up for instance and getting all the sounds on it and stuff and although I used to always do that myself for the first few bands I produced, engineered myself and then I just thought, this is too much work, I really need to delegate, I really need to sit on the couch with the band, discuss what the next thing we are gonna do while the engineering works away, you know and so I started using engineer, yourself, other engineers and that made my job a lot easier and I think it was a very good decision because it made it much more efficient and if there was any problem that the engineers was going well, which mic shall we use on this, I knew the answer of course. Kevin Paul: Yeah, you've been there. Pascal Gabriel: I always use a 58 on that, you know, whatever, you know and so that's very useful. Kevin Paul: It's an important relationship isn't it, the engineer and producer. Pascal Gabriel: Oh definitely yeah, very much so yeah. I mean, there has to be a lot of trust there you know and of course me being kind of a, what's the word, perfectionist, I think every producer is, I'd always go walk around and go, yeah yeah, maybe move that off an inch, move that one and that's yeah, maybe put a baffle there you know because that's what you do, you know. Kevin Paul: Well I mean, you're not alone there, I mean, we all do that. You produced all those bands, had great success with all of those records and then you went into songwriting with other people. That, for me, strikes me as being quite a different thing. Were you writing lyrics, top line, melody? Pascal Gabriel: Music usually. Usually music, it depends. To come back on your question and discussing this, I already co-wrote S'Express and Bomb The Bass stuff you know, so writing was already part of my thing... Kevin Paul: And your repertoire as well. Pascal Gabriel: As an artist when I was doing, before I had success with S'Express and Bomb The Bass and I was using the downtime in all the studios I worked in. I did my own stuff and wrote loads of stuff. None of it that ever was released and so, but I knew about writing and I wanted to express myself into writing but I guess because, and I wasn't really, you know, about to look at the gift horse in the mouth but when I had a massive success with S'Express and Bomb The Bass and I worked with lots of bands that are produced because bands usually have their own songs, I stopped writing quite naturally because production came, you know, and so I had like six or seven years between '89, '88, '89, '95 where basically just produce, produce, produce, produce, produce and came about 95, I decided that I was gonna stop just doing production and go back to writing because really production at the time, rightly or wrongly, I saw it as sometimes you were polishing certain things that weren't actually correctly written and really the writing part is really the nuts and bolts, it's like, it's a little bit I don't know, it's a bit like someone gave you the parts to a car and you know some of the parts have failed, you know, and yet you have to put the car together. That's what you do when you produce sometimes. Kevin Paul: Yeah, yes of course, yeah. Pascal Gabriel: But when you write, you can go well, I'm not gonna have that wheel, I'm gonna have this new wheel and I'm gonna have this steering and I'm gonna have this, you know, because you create it, you invent it, you invent every nuts and bolts of the music that you creating and so I find it much more satisfying to cut the long story short. Kevin Paul: Sure. Pascal Gabriel: And so after that, from '95, after Peach, from Peach onwards actually, I only really did bar very few exceptions, produced the stuff I co-wrote, from then until now actually, for the last 20 years now, 25 years. Kevin Paul: Wow, 20 years, that sounds like a long time, doesn't it. Pascal Gabriel: Almost 25 years, yeah. So I only really had like, I would say 10 years of... Kevin Paul: Of engineering and producing. Pascal Gabriel: Of production and engineering and then 20, now 25 years of... Kevin Paul: Do you remember your first success in writing? Pascal Gabriel: Peach did well. Peach we had the top four Kevin Paul: Peach did very well, in America where you had the Sliding Doors thing. Pascal Gabriel: We had the Top 40 in the States and then we had the song with Dot Allison that did really well called Close Your Eyes, I think. Yes that's right, Close Your Eyes. And then of course Dido. I mean, when Here With Me came out it was... Kevin Paul: How did that... Pascal Gabriel: Well my publisher introduced us to his older sister and she was singing backing vocal in Faithless. Faithless were doing well, but she was only a backing vocalist for faithless and she wanted to do her own solo career. Her publisher at the time introduced her to us and I met up with her, I thought she has a brilliant voice, that was clear and we discussed what she liked and she said, yeah well, you know, I'd love to do something like Twin Peaks and with, so like the Twin Peaks backing track, so we then, her and this other co-writer called Paul and I basically came up with this kind of whole backing track for Here With Me in probably an afternoon. Kevin Paul: Amazing. Pascal Gabriel: So it really slowed down, really slow, really mellow and I had a really dirty drum loop, which actually made it on the final record and that was it, you know and suddenly this kind of like, because everyone at the time was really into much higher tempos than what we're doing, we were doing like 80, 90bpm and everyone's doing 120, 130 kind of housey, but a bit kind of like cool house you know, not hands in the air sort of house yet. That didn't interest me 'cause I've been there, done that sort thing you know and so with Dido it was cool, it was a good meeting of minds you know, she decided that the more mellow and more chanteuse thing was much more her thing and quite rightly, because she has a brilliant voice, you know. When we did Hear With Me, it's just a few takes you know, really good. Like she's one of the very few singers I've ever worked with where you do a take and you think, that was good, like early on you know, really early. Kevin Paul: That's always a godsend, isn't it. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah. Then you already quids in, you know. Kevin Paul: Yeah, you're halfway there, really. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah yeah, so that really made a massive difference. Kevin Paul: Did Dido have the lyrics? Pascal Gabriel: She did yeah. I mean with Dido we did just the music. Kevin Paul: And what about if you're working with artists where there is no lyrics, do you do a lot of that? Pascal Gabriel: We do lyrics together. Yeah yeah, we do lyrics together. Kevin Paul: How do you write lyrics for Kylie? Pascal Gabriel: Well Kylie again wrote, really tends to write her own. I don't think we really got involved with that much on lyrics. I mean, you know, be writing in the afternoon. Usually by the time we, if we do a song over a couple of days, the first afternoon we're kind of doing the basic chorus lines and so we'd share ideas and we'd go okay, maybe we can, you know, what could this next line be and actually we'd say maybe that line's actually, that's a chorus now, so good, that's better then I don't know what the lyric was you know. With other artists I have a telephone and a book full of titles and lines and so... Kevin Paul: Okay, like an ideas book. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, like an ideas book and every... Kevin Paul: Like are you constantly writing down like if you are travelling, yeah? Pascal Gabriel: Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. Kevin Paul: And repeat to phone or whatever. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, absolutely, yeah yeah. And so you'd say like for instance, what should we call this one and I think, oh this is kind of like really dark, groovy song, let's call it Painkiller and so Painkiller would be a title and go okay, Painkiller, I don't need any Painkiller because when you're around, whatever, you know? Kevin Paul: Yeah, sure. Pascal Gabriel: Suddenly so what you need is like just that one idea really. I have worked extensively with top line writers as well and they always come up with books full of lyrics. You know, they would have Painkillers plus, you know. Kevin Paul: Plus yeah and all words associated with Painkiller. Pascal Gabriel: And completely with the whole thing and they'd have a positive version like, you know, when you're around, I don't need Painkillers, or when you're around, I really need Painkillers, so they'd have both versions, you know, positive and a negative so their job is really the top line and the lyric and my job is really the music and the production and so that's really how it works generally. Kevin Paul: Okay, but obviously you do everything. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah and they do everything, I mean sometimes, you know, top line case says, I think we need a different chords there, maybe that would make it more whatever, you know, so it happens that the other way around. Kevin Paul: When you're doing your own stuff, like when you are writing a song all by yourself or for someone else, I'm not sure if I've asked this but where do you start? Do you start with the top line? Are you starting with the chords? Pascal Gabriel: Depends. Kevin Paul: Is it just whatever takes you, have you got a groove going on the computer? Pascal Gabriel: You know sometimes no, yeah, both, all those things. I mean, sometimes I sit on the wurlitzer or the piano and I think, oh this is nice, this is moody, you know, this is good or this is a good bassline, or is this the bassline, or actually that could be the riff or, you know. Kevin Paul: Right, okay. Pascal Gabriel: You just start with something, you fiddle. Kevin Paul: So you don't rule anything out, you're not ruling anything out. Pascal Gabriel: No, I noodle. Kevin Paul: You're just noodling and you're just jamming some ideas. Do you come into the studio with the focus of finishing something or starting something or do you set yourself an agenda? Pascal Gabriel: It depends on the day, depends what's required. I mean, if I've got, say today is Monday and on Wednesday I've got Kylie and the top line writer coming in or someone else, you know, coming in, a vocalist type person coming in, I'll just get a couple of ideas for them and before that we'll have met anyway and I'll know what they expect, so I'll do something in a kind of, you know, alternative rock if that's what they do or something mellow if that's what they do or, but I always try to kind of take them a little bit out of their comfort zone as well, because I think that makes things a bit more exciting, you know. Kevin Paul: Well that's very much part of your ethos isn't it, in the studio, right back to the production you always try to push. Pascal Gabriel: Make it more exciting, yeah. Kevin Paul: You push the bands a little bit, you know, bands can be very kind of safe or they feel very happy where they're comfortable and I noticed from your production work that you always try to push them. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, it depends of the band of course, but generally I think it makes it more fun and more exciting for everyone if you go explore a bit unknown territory, you know. Kevin Paul: Well, good things come out... Pascal Gabriel: I mean for me as well as them, you know and that's true of band artists, co writers, anything like that, you know? I mean when you've had some, sometimes you have artists that go come in and they say, oh we can't write anything negative, you know, we can't have don't, we can't have no, we can't have not, we can't have and I just go but... Kevin Paul: They actually say that. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah and I just say look this is silly, you know, this is really silly because I don't like reggae, you know, I love it. It's a great record, you know. Kevin Paul: Brilliant. Pascal Gabriel: But you can't say, you can't say, what if they say I just love reggae, yhat would've been a really boring record, you know. Kevin Paul: Yeah sure, oh yeah. Pascal Gabriel: So it doesn't, you can't you know, sometimes people come up with stuff like that and you think, don't give yourself barriers before you've written a note, you know. Kevin Paul: OK, that's good advice. No barriers. Yeah. No barriers, you know, just go for it. No, don't go well we have to have this, this minute You might have something that you don't really love this minute, but you might navigate you towards something that's really brilliant and really unusual and you don't even expect. That's my, you know, my view I think. Kevin Paul: That's your view, yeah. What makes a good lyric? Pascal Gabriel: Metering is important. The metering of the lyric. Kevin Paul: The metering? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, the rhythm metering is important. I think it's important to have a metering where the syllable and the vowel fall in the right place. Kevin Paul: Okay, so you're talk about the phrasing, the timing of the lyrics. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, the phrasing is really important. Kevin Paul: The melody, the rhythm of the lyric. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, the rhythm of the lyrics, yeah and if it's misphrased I think it sounds a bit weird and odd, I think that's skewed and very important. Of course, what makes a good lyric is what it says, you know, what the message is, you know. Kevin Paul: Do you like your, so I mean is it fair to say maybe that if you're doing a sad song, you try and make it really sad... Pascal Gabriel: Sure. Kevin Paul: Or if you're doing a happy song, are you looking for those extreme emotions in your music making? Pascal Gabriel: In the music, yeah maybe. I mean, I don't know. I mean Here With Me for instance is not a sad song, but it has a quite sad progression and it is, but it's really about longing for someone, you know? Kevin Paul: Yeah, that's right. Pascal Gabriel: I mean, isn't that what half of pop songs are, you know. Kevin Paul: Probably more than half, probably more. Pascal Gabriel: Longing for someone, longing for something, not being able to get something you want, you know, that's kind of, or someone who want, you know, that's kinda what Pop is about you know. Kevin Paul: Let's just talk a little bit about people wanting to get into the industry and maybe if you can shed some advice for writers or want to be producers. What sort of advice would you give in terms of starting your career, learning to write songs as I think maybe you have to learn to write songs, it's not something, some people are very talented at it but some people have to learn the craft and it's the same with production. Have you got any sort of advice for people trying to get into the industry about the creative process? Pascal Gabriel: Apart from don't. Kevin Paul: Apart from that. Okay, well that's a valid one. Pascal Gabriel: No, no, no, no, I'm joking, I'm being facetious. Well I think you've gotta be prepared to work way harder than in any other job because it's very competitive and you know, you will have many, many people you will encounter on the way trying to steer you left, right, center and you could easily lose your way, you have to have a very, very strong mind, if you're an artist I'm talking about, you know, that's what you're talking about, isn't it? Yeah, just you have to have a very strong mind, a very strong will and a very strong idea of what you want and also be prepared to make compromises, but don't make too many compromises because you can easily lose your way because you know, you might say I'm, you know, my type of music is red stripe, I just want this red stripe in the middle of the record, that's what my music is gonna sound like but you'll have management, record companies, publishers, colleagues, friends, the cleaning lady in the record company all going, wow maybe red stripe is good, but maybe you should have a bit of blue spots in there, or maybe you should have some green and you will add those things and it might water your thing down, it might not be as strong as it was. Kevin Paul: Sure. Pascal Gabriel: On the other hand, it's your choice. At some point you'll have to decide whether actually that enhances your idea or does detract from your idea and that's really important for you as an artist to know where you stand and what you like and what you want to be regardless of success. Kevin PPaul: Yeah well I think that's very wise. Pascal Gabriel: Longevity is really much more important I think than success and than instant success, you know, so don't sell your mother just to have a hit basically, you know, think of your career long term. Kevin Paul: Yeah. What's your favourite piece of equipment in the studio? Pascal Gabriel: Apart from the computer? Kevin Paul: Yeah, apart from the computer, a computer's a piece of equipment, but apart from the computer. Pascal Gabriel: It kinda depends what I'm doing. If I'm writing for instance it'll be that looper that's just behind you there. Kevin Paul: This one, this one up here? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah this one, RC-505 Boss. Kevin Paul: Oh yeah, okay. Pascal Gabriel: Five loopers in it. Kevin Paul: The RC-505, what does that do? Pascal Gabriel: It's five, basically five loops with five volume faders. I like it because if I'm composing, I have that connected to that Wurlitzer piano or to my piano in France or with a couple of mics on the piano and I just don't look at the computer, I just noodle and I go that was good. Yeah, that's good, that's the bassline. Kevin Paul: Are you always recording or... Pascal Gabriel: I'm not always recording but if I do something good I'll think, oh that could be a bassline, oh I'll loop it, done. I'll do the chords on top of that bassline now Kevin Paul: Excellent. Pascal Gabriel: And it's just all, it is all very... Kevin Pual: Very creative. Pascal Gabriel: It's not like, oh stop Logic, go to the next track, you know, it's really quick. Kevin Paul: Very instinctive. Pascal Gabriel: Very instinctive and you're not distracted by looking at a screen, so I really like that. So for writing sketches, I use that a lot. For production and recording I like the that UAD, where is it, that UAD there. Kevin Paul: Oh the compressor, the LA-610. Pascal Gabriel: LA-610 yeah. That's really great, I use that for, all the time. Kevin Paul: Thats an old one though, right? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah. Kevin Paul: That's an original one. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah. I use that and I use the SansAmp. Kevin Paul: For distortion? Pascal Gabriel: For distortion. For distortion on vocals, on guitar, on bass, on drums, on, it's, so the rackmount version. Kevin Paul: Yeah, that's the old original one, right? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah. It's really great, I use that all the time. Kevin Paul: Excellent. Pascal Gabriel: It just makes things dirty. And the last thing I use is the Auratones. Kevin Paul: For monitoring? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, just brilliant. Kevin Paul: Okay, for mixing or just, even just writing? Pascal Gabriel: No, for mixing. Yeah for writing the NS10s are great, you just blast them up and you get really excited but for mixing I use the Auratone for like accurate, middle range, you know, balancing, there's nothing better. I've got a very good amp, I've got a Bryston amp for them and it sounds, they sound really fantastic, even in the sends sounds great. Kevin Paul: Yeah, they're very good with the Bryston aren't they, very good. Pascal Gabriel: And that's kind of, you know, that's really, I would say they're the tools I really would miss, everything else is just synths, you know. I mean, I love millions of synths, they're all good for different things. Kevin Paul: Well, you've had, you've probably had them all haven't you at some point. Pascal Gabriel: Probably yeah. Kevin Paul: They've probably passed through your fingers. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, the only one I've never had is a Surge, but I'm kind of... Kevin Paul: Are you looking for one? Pascal Gabriel: Yeah. Well, you can get modular parts now, you can get modular versions of Surge... Kevin Paul: Oh really? Pascal Gabriel: So I might get that. I I don't like to, try not to break the flow, you know? I mean if you're into a flow, I mean it's, I find that, you know, for instance, I mean I've got my studio at home and I always, working at home it's very easy to be distracted but, you know, I've said to my wife many, many, many years ago that if I'm here in the studio at home, I'm not at home. Kevin Paul: Okay. Pascal Gabriel: I'm kind of like, I do like what Mike Reed does almost, you know. Mike Reed used to kind of, he had a studio above his house and he would come out of his house with his sandwich box and walk around the block, come back in his house, go upstairs and then do the other way around in the evening, so he wasn't at home effectively, even though geographically he was and I think that's really important to not, don't get distracted, you know. That's one thing I really loved about my, having my studio in, my second studio in the south of France and when artists come and work there, they're so much more productive because they have no distraction, no managers booking them a meeting in the morning, you know, people popping in, all that stuff. They're just there to relax and write tunes, you know, and it's worth its weight in gold I think, that, especially in big cities there's always distractions for artists, you know, they come in and the manager will call them and say, can you do this photo shoot, can you do that, can you, you know, they'll pack as much things in their day as possible if they and then they wonder why the tune that we've come up with isn't as complete as it could have been, it's that, well, you know... Kevin Paul: There's too many phone calls coming in. Pascal Gabriel: Too many things happening, you know. Kevin Paul: Well what about the phone in the studio, do you kind of... Pascal Gabriel: Oh I ban it, yeah. If an artist answers the phone in the middle of me working on the track... Kevin Paul: Yeah, you won't be happy. Pascal Gabriel: I'll very politely say can you turn the phone off or get out the room please because it's just, you know, it breaks the flow, you know. I think when you are in a studio, I always compare a little bit to, especially when you're writing, in the creative process of writing, it's a bit like you're entering a submarine you know, you have a cup of tea outside the studio, then you enter the submarine and then after an hour or an hour and a half, you are down, then you are in the bottom of the ocean and it's your empire. Kevin Paul: It's just you and the elements. Pascal Gabriel: Yeah, it's just you and the artist and the music that you're creating together and suddenly the phone rings and manager says, oh you won't guess what happened. It's like, that's it, you're back on surface again you know and that's really no good you know, so I kind of tend to say five hours phone off, you know, if possible. Kevin Paul: Thank-you very much for spending a short time with me, it's been great to see you after all these years and thanks very much for coming on Mixbus. Pascal Gabriel: My pleasure. Kevin Paul: Thank-you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes page for this episode where you'll find further information along with web links and details of all our other episodes. And just before you go, let me point you to the soundonsound.com/podcasts website page where you can explore what's playing on our other channels. This has been a Mixbus production by me, Kevin Paul, for Sound On Sound.