[SPEAKER_03]: I look, the tulips came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, the tulips came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, gorgeous.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think actually, I'm so glad that came up because being, you're never gonna be good unless you're down to be bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Finding Mr.

Hight the Podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host, Alex Jackson, and I am bringing you my positive and practical approach to dating relationships and a whole lot else about life based on my personal experience, the things that I've been through and worked through, and I'm bringing to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so excited about today's episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: First, we have an update from Katie and Tony, our dating diaries participants.

[SPEAKER_02]: Quick note about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We accidentally called Tony's guy that he was talking about last time, Tyson.

[SPEAKER_02]: We called him Tyler in this episode, so sorry about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We realized after we recorded, but you'll hear about updates on Tyson Tyler and also very exciting update from Katie.

[SPEAKER_02]: She has a new iron in the fire that we had not heard about last time we spoke.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've got their updates coming in for you, and then I am talking with Miriam Katz, who has been on the pod recently.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was on the pod talking about her new podcast, X appeal, which is just wrapped its first season where she's talking to her goal is to talk to every single person she's ever dated for this podcast, and by dated she means has any romantic connection with or like contact with at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's not why she's back on the pod.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's back on the pod because she and I have been talking a lot about the work she does with public speaking coaching and how that work is rooted in her improv roots and how she helps people be better public speakers most of the time in a work context, but one of her public speaking clients recently told her that the work that they had done with public speaking and presentations at work had really helped her in dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: to feel more authentic, to feel looser, to feel less like you're on an interview, and just feel like dating is more fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: And going on dates, regardless of the outcome is more fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: when you have this kind of like loose approach to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so Mary reached out to me about this and we decided to do an episode talking about how these improv exercises that she does for her public speaking clients can really help going into dates, early dates especially, first dates, second dates, third dates, when you might be a little tighter, you might be a little nervous, you might be worried about what to talk about or coming across weird or like whatever it is, [SPEAKER_02]: to help you ground yourself and who you are, feel a little looser, be more engaged, have better connection to someone regardless, honestly, of whether you end up wanting a second date or another date with that person.

[SPEAKER_02]: The goal is to have fun on the date, no matter who's sitting across the table for me, or next to you, or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: The goal is to have fun, so that you don't feel like it's this thing where you're just banging your head against a wall.

[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, there are going to be bad dates regardless, and you can't control what the person [SPEAKER_02]: but you can work on things within yourself and your approach to make things more fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when I reflect back on when I was dating, I had a lot of fun on dates, even when I didn't wanna go out with that person again.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's because I had unintentionally, accidentally worked on this a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: through the way that I've worked on presenting at work and being a little looser and not following a script and thinking on my feed and being kind of a little bit more authentic to who I am and I was bringing that to dates in a way that had me having fun even if the other person isn't somebody that I want to see again and not because they're like a terrible person right you might still have bad dates because the other person is doing something crazy [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the majority of dates are more met than they are bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so my goal is to still have fun on the dates that are met and essentially like not have met dates and still have fun on my end.

[SPEAKER_02]: So all this to say, Miriam is back after we're here from Katie and Tony to bring me and us you through some exercises that she does with her public speaking clients that we've adapted or she's adapted to the dating space.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is the first time in, I think, the history of the podcast that I did not write the outline for the episode, because she is bringing exercises to me that I don't know about an advance, and on purpose, because I knew about the exercise in advance, they wouldn't work right, like they have to be improv needs to be on the fly, dimbrough, it's in the name.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she brought these exercises to me, side on scene, and we had so much fun, and I highly recommend that you do them along with me or pause it to do it yourself if you're not able to kind of do it in real time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, this episode is on YouTube for the first time ever.

[SPEAKER_02]: I set it out loud in the recording with Miriam, and I'm saying it out loud now, so that it must be true, this episode is on YouTube, and this is a really great one to watch in video.

[SPEAKER_02]: To watch our facial expressions, to watch how the exercises work, because I really feel like these exercises would be so good to do before dates.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are some you can do by yourself.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's others that are with a person, but you could play.

[SPEAKER_02]: this episode and do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it could be really helpful for the workplace.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what it is because that's what she does for a living.

[SPEAKER_02]: She coaches people in public speaking, in work presentations and that kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: For the patrons, we're doing a bonus episode for our $10 here where we do bonus episodes every week.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're doing a bonus episode on presenting at work, using some of these concepts but going even deeper into it specific to work presentations.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm excited for that as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to record that next week for the bonus episode for the patrons.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this week, you will get to hear Miriam talk all about first dates and how we can be a little looser.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, more authentic.

[SPEAKER_02]: But still bring your personality, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like obviously I am an extrovert.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little loud, my energy is high.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not everybody's vibe.

[SPEAKER_02]: The goal is not for you to have that vibe.

[SPEAKER_02]: The goal is for you to find your vibe and get more comfortable and looser in that vibe to then bring that authenticity and looseness to date so that you're having more fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that is what we have going for you this week and without further ado, let's talk to Katie and Tony.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we are back with Katie and Tony.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: How's it going?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, don't good.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Good.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are your holiday seasons?

[SPEAKER_00]: Your new years?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, New Year's was wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that so good?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was so fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm excited to hear some updates from both of you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought we could start with Tony.

[SPEAKER_02]: You had Tyler was kind of in the works and happening last we spoke.

[SPEAKER_02]: Tell us what's going on with that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Long story short, Tyler's maybe on his way out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no!

[SPEAKER_04]: Things were still like really good after we chatted last time.

[SPEAKER_04]: I had to get a hotel room before the end of the year to keep my diamond status at Hilton.

[SPEAKER_04]: I like rented a room like on I think the 27th and we went out that night with squad went out and he joined us and everything was like fun like I thought everything was machine well [SPEAKER_04]: Friends are working now.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, this is good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Good news.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and the New Year's Eve hits the energy just like shift dig.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh Like between years, even New Year's day like just a whole kind of like and balance and then I kind of was like, hey, I just here's what I'm feeling and he said that he wasn't sure if he wanted something long-term or serious and I was like, okay, that's fine [SPEAKER_04]: Which I probably should have picked up.

[SPEAKER_04]: He mentioned that like earlier chats not that he didn't want anything serious But like he said as long as relationship was like maybe six months and I'm like that should have then maybe a orange flag [SPEAKER_02]: I think like somebody can have not had a relationship and be looking for one true.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of what he hinted at.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that's kind of what I took that exact advice and just kind of went through.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious like what were the what was the energy shift that you were feeling like what what happened that made you think, Yeah, I want to say something.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a pretty quick and consistent person when it comes to communications and texting.

[SPEAKER_04]: If I get a fact, something I'd probably respond to you didn't make like 10 seconds more than that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's for everybody.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's not just for the boys, but that's just how I operate.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I got as much of his responses like really delayed.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like some of the things that we would chat all day, kind of just like went hours of the time, getting responded and I'm like, [SPEAKER_04]: feels weird for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it changed.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he used to be like very with you on your cadence and then all of a sudden it was more delayed.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, which is whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: But like, I'm glad that I recognized the shift and called him out, not called him out, but like just asked about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And like the old Tony would have been like, what's happening my world's on fire?

[SPEAKER_04]: Or something like, hey, what's happening?

[SPEAKER_02]: You just, you want to know, you deserved to know if his thoughts have changed.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that was two days ago when he said that he said like I'm having fun getting drinks and whatnot, but like not sure if he went serious, so I'm like, okay, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_04]: So kind of like just following his lead, so I haven't reached out to him at all and like let me just see if you reach out.

[SPEAKER_04]: I can still match your energy, but like I'm not going to go tend to's down for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you open to it being casual?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but without putting his business out there, short grinder kind of tells you when everyone's online.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, and he's online a lot, which I mean, I guess I am too if I know that he is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was about to say, how do you know he's online?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you're online, maybe you're doing the same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Regardless of what he is doing though, what I'm wondering is like you went into the situation looking for something more consistent or long term, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you besides what he is doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like are you open to it not being that with it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because if not, I don't know if there's a point in continuing things, you know?

[SPEAKER_04]: Right, that's true.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think like even if it is casual, there should still be some [SPEAKER_04]: communication.

[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I felt like it just dropped off since yesterday.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, well, it is what it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm not going to not talk to him, but my like intention of talking him would it is different now for sure for because I remember you said when we first were chatting about what you were looking for that you were open to kind of potentially casual things, even though you're ultimately looking for long term.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you don't necessarily have to write it off for that [SPEAKER_04]: I texted him, I think it was Monday night, because I was asking him what his plans were for the week.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, see him or something.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and that's when he said what it was.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, a Sunday, actually, sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just said, like, hey, change in our combo since New Year's Eve or anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then he kind of said, he's not 100% sure of what he wants at this moment.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just said, I'm a Sam, like you're busy, blah blah blah blah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just said, like, I'm a lover of voice or just like, that's good for me to know because I know I come off like a little crazy sometimes.

[SPEAKER_04]: in the best way.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he said, like, no, that's so cute and fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like, you don't get both.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can't have it.

[UNKNOWN]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can't have a lover boy if you don't want something serious because you have to get that energy if you want to build something.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is a really important thing to remember.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the reasons I asked you if you were open to the casual thing because You could be theoretically open to it, but it's difficult to come to it with a different energy if you were already in one headspace.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think I can differentiate.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think like the cute, like more cuter things would stop with energy trying this cute things would stop, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, sometimes I think like as you continue with someone, you could realize, oh, wait, this is heading somewhere that I don't want it to head, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like in the beginning when everything is like easy and fun and whatever, like he could maybe put aside the fact that he knows you're looking for something serious.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then as things [SPEAKER_02]: This actually isn't what I want, just an option.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that's, yeah, because he said, like, he doesn't, and I mentioned that to him, the text like, no one, I feel like knows it's not what they want.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think if there's work towards what you think you want, and then you realize it's not, and then that's when you make decisions to change.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I wish he had to add something, rather than just let you, let you, like, kind of figure it out, like that part sucks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, luckily I got some good meals out of it that he paid for.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it wasn't a total waste.

[SPEAKER_02]: Worth it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's overlining.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_04]: He tried to go out of his way to like make it even an sense of what he was spending.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, okay, that's kind of cute because some people don't try.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So onward and upward we'll see what we'll see where we'll see where [SPEAKER_02]: our roster building takes us from here.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ross don't work at this time at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he had one guy talking to us kind of cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: There was one guy that I was keeping on burden number two that I was really interested in.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that kind of heated that up on Monday.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the combos are going really well for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you met him yet, or he's just on the app right now?

[SPEAKER_04]: He's just on the app right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: OK.

[SPEAKER_04]: But now I'm like, hey, when can we meet?

[SPEAKER_04]: And he's like, oh my gosh, I'm moving, but I'd love to meet up with you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Moving like, within a city.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was like, oh no, we can't do another one business at your way, no.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, so he's moving like within the city, but he's also going on vacation.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: And two weeks.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, okay, let me know.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, but it's not good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I told Tony, he should like ask to help him move.

[SPEAKER_04]: I would be right the first date.

[SPEAKER_04]: There reminds me that you talk this girl.

[SPEAKER_04]: Invited all of her hinge dates to help her move.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember that iconic move.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I'll suggest it as a joke.

[SPEAKER_04]: And hopefully careful.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, because I don't want to be careful.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to move anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're like, oh, I'll say, I can drive my CV for you if you don't need to.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can bring the vibes.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll bring the pizza in beer.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm not going to lift a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not going to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: OK, how about you last bespoke?

[SPEAKER_02]: There were a couple of things going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: You were about to go on a day where we [SPEAKER_00]: I think last time I talked about Scott, we had a date plan.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was the one that was like 10 years older from England or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't end up meeting like he that day, last minute canceled.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said that he had to do something.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had to meet with someone because he was having travel issues, like traveling back to the UK or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see that respond.

[SPEAKER_00]: He did offer to me this week.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like the last minute thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't going to weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: always.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he did suggest another time like after he canceled.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, yeah, he's a Jesse, he's like, why don't we, or he said maybe we can meet the first week of January.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and then what happened after that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't respond.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's not just because I don't necessarily know, I didn't have a hard opinion, I guess, about whether he was lying or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think I'm more interested in the guy I'm talking to now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know, I don't know, it's full of eggs, one basket, but I kind of, as we put our eggs in one basket.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The eggs have gathered.

[SPEAKER_04]: We do that, but we know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: We know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because we know what we're doing, that's totally fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: So tell us about the guy that you're talking to now.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's his deal?

[SPEAKER_00]: Local him, Evan.

[SPEAKER_00]: He, where were fourth date tomorrow?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we started talking mid-December, and then our first date was after Christmas, we went rock climbing.

[SPEAKER_00]: fun, which I've never done, but he's very good at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can actually hang by his feet off the little rocks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even understand how that works.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't either.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and then we got pizza afterwards.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like a good date planner, which I appreciate.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second date, he took it to a really nice restaurant, like one of the nicest restaurants in Kansas City, because he was like, I just want to try it, like I want to do something.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about how we like dressing up.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I'm just gonna get some reason to [SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of funny because I was walking into the restaurant and Dan who I spoke about before.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was walking out of the day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, did you acknowledge each other?

[SPEAKER_00]: We looked at each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: He looked kind of irritated because I don't know what was going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: But interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was funny to see him, but the dates have been really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: We ended up going to the same place on New Year as we had already bought tickets to the same place.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a coincidence.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Tony met him.

[SPEAKER_04]: Would you think Tony?

[SPEAKER_04]: I liked him a lot.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was handsome.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was at the height for Katie.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was funny.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think like I threw some jokes toward him at him about him.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he laughs.

[SPEAKER_04]: I like leaned into it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like, okay, this is like the test.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you kind of, you're good on my side.

[SPEAKER_04]: because me and Katie cocking each other all the time.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like if you know what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Has to be able to laugh at himself.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: Katie, what do you like about him?

[SPEAKER_00]: We just have a lot in companies.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can talk for a long time and like find something to talk about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we've never ran out of things to talk about.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we talk a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk during the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our days are usually about three, four hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: Talking to him, I feel like we have a lot in common.

[SPEAKER_00]: We both like sports.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just really sweet.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's very thoughtful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tomorrow we're going to play many golf.

[SPEAKER_00]: fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of my place after.

[SPEAKER_00]: He suggests it is like, why don't we make cookies together?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, this is so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is adorable.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, he's just very sweet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he puts a lot of effort into the dates and I feel like he remembers things, which is important to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: He remembers small details.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so far so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going out with him tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_02]: You said fourth date, many go off?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fine, well I'm excited to hear about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some good momentum there and he's the only one you're talking to right now He is yeah, and I will say another thing I like about him is what he likes about me is like He just says really sweet things like you're like your goofiness I like you're very sweet like I like the things that he acknowledges about me because that's kind of stuff I want someone to acknowledge about me.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's huge [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not like surface things, but it's a little deeper.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's noticing things about you and like appreciating you for who you are.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's so wonderful.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: Any fits in with the friends we like it?

[SPEAKER_00]: We like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm at his friends too, because obviously they were there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Would you think of his friends?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't talk to them as much as they talk to, or he talked to my friends, but they were nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were welcoming, missing fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a fun like no pressure way to meet the friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're already in the same place, it just so happens to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of perfect.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, work out really well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I loved our little update.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you both for sharing as always.

[SPEAKER_02]: Excited to hear how the roster work develops for you, Tony, and Katie, how things are developing on your end.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm excited.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll let you guys know next couple of weeks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we have a little talk to you soon and for the listeners, we will get into the rest of the episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we are back with Miriam.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hi Miriam, welcome back to Finding Mr.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, the podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so excited to talk to you again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did I think what viewers or listeners rather?

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, viewers, yours.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying it out loud so that I have to do this.

[SPEAKER_02]: This episode is going to be on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to do some physical humor here.

[SPEAKER_03]: What is it?

[SPEAKER_03]: Visual stuff to entice you all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is the perfect one to be the first the YouTube debut.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think listeners viewers might be a little surprised to find out the topic or they already heard the topic in my intro of having you back because the first time we had you on, you were talking all about your amazing podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: You just wrapped season 1, except you.

[SPEAKER_02]: How's it going first of all?

[SPEAKER_02]: Really well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a lot of people listened.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's so cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: I loved the concept.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of listeners loved the concept.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Kudos to you, congratulations on wrapping season 1.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we are here for something completely different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, a chief int, but yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, true, true, true, true, true, true.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I found this out when you and I were just chatting on the side, but let the listeners know what it is that you do.

[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, what it is that you literally just got off doing before we jumped onto this recording.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I teach public speaking coaching.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I coach public speaking.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: for professionals, people who are giving presentations at work or pitching to VCs or people doing panel discussions and I help them feel more like themselves more playful.

[SPEAKER_03]: I work a lot with humor both because it's fun but also to get people to feel more free and then hopefully to be a little bit funnier and have like a lighter touch on everything they're doing [SPEAKER_03]: or especially if you think about a wedding toast, they'll just read off the page.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, okay, that's technically perfect, but nobody wants to hear.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'd so much rather hear someone stumble and be themselves than have it be quote perfect by reading.

[SPEAKER_03]: And one of my clients a couple months ago said this work that she was doing with me was making her much better on first dates.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I thought about the work that you do as a dating coach, and then I just thought how these things can be parallel and how improv can definitely be helpful for first dates, for feeling like yourself, for being present, for listening, for being playful, for being funny, for not taking it too seriously, and also I think for being authentic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that parallel.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think the audience is not going to be surprised that I love when I can parallel my corporate life to my podcasting life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think a lot of it does really factor in.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I have been talking a lot more about work life and, you know, corporate success and that kind of thing over on the Patreon.

[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things that you and I are going to do is a Patreon bonus about giving presentations at work.

[SPEAKER_02]: So patrons look out for that this week.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm so excited to talk about how this work can translate into dating, because especially it's January, we are in a very high dating app usage time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I did not know that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so let me say.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, you know, there's like new, new, new, new, new, new resolutions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, Jim, right, Jim, membership, spike in January.

[SPEAKER_02]: The same thing is true for dating apps.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like a lot of people make it their New Year's resolution to go on more dates or maybe just to use the dating apps more whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there are going to be an inordinate number of first dates happening soon.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want people to feel more confident and more comfortable going on those dates.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is going to be great.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that is funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's wedding season.

[SPEAKER_03]: Then there's dating season.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, it totally makes sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I guess my goal for this episode is that people.

[SPEAKER_03]: feel like they can have more fun on certain states because I do really think that's possible.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's first dates that I've gone on that I never hung out with that person again, but I remember something from it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a I've got a song from it just something.

[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't a terrible experience because it did not turn into anything else.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's one of the reasons why I didn't mind dating so much was because I was having fun on dates and doing that requires you to be a little looser and to like not follow this script.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will say we will get into this, but obviously you can only control what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: pain points that they were having in first dates or early dates and a lot of them talked about feeling like it's an interview or feeling really staff or feeling like they're telling the same stories over and over again.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the other pattern that showed up was feeling like they were getting nothing in return.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think in situations like that, okay, it's there have been times especially when I was dating during COVID and someone was really giving me nothing and at some, you know, like 15 minutes in, I was like, I got it, go.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there are times where it's like, I can't.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's fine, there's extreme examples of that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think you can even if you end up asking all the questions and then they didn't ask you questions, at least you're getting something out of somebody.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think you can sort of lead the way and ask a bunch of questions and then when they say something, you then respond to it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's sort of in that sense is a one-way lead conversation, but it still is a conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I had an really interesting guest on also named Miriam last month and we talked about different conversation types and how some people are the type of conversation list where they do ask a lot of questions, whereas other people sit back a little bit and they'll [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that that is an interesting framework to think about as we start discussing ways to feel looser and ways to feel more like yourself on dates is to not have it feel like you're asking a list of questions.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that also makes me think of the biggest tenant of improv, which most people would know if they knew anything about improv, which is yes and.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that doesn't mean you're agreeing, you know, someone can say something like I love murder, you don't have to say yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you were agreeing with the reality that that is what they said.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're not saying, oh, we're, you know, alien.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't say further.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you don't have to say, I also have murder.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the reality is that that's what someone said.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so you are saying, wow, you said that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I personally do not love murder.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason I do not love murder is the following.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I think that that is a really important part of dating is that you are.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just, it's an important part of relationships.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Is that you accept the reality of what the person is said?

[SPEAKER_02]: I have to still listen, you're like, wow, I really don't love murder.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: You said that out loud.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you're, yeah, you're, yeah, yes, you did.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you did say that out loud.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that is your deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I do think there is an art of conversation that can transcend talking to somebody who maybe isn't as good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the funny thing about this is [SPEAKER_03]: There's there were dates that I went on that were an amazing date for the other person.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a good conversationalist And they were like, oh my god, we connected so much and it was like, oh no, I'm just very good at talking to people and I'm genuinely very curious about people and so it's a good problem to have I don't think lead anyone on.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've no interest in that kind of energy, but I think it's okay if you go on dates and people like you and then you have to say oh, I'm actually not that into it [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what a good problem to have.

[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely a great problem to have.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because the other one of the other patterns that emerged in the submissions were people that were wanting to go into dates feeling like the chooser versus going into dates wanting to be chosen and worrying about how the other person is perceiving you.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of knife.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like you're choosing each other.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're seeing if something clicks, it's you united.

[SPEAKER_03]: So true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I think it's also when you're going into a date if you're coming at it from the lens that we're talking about today in terms of wanting to be yourself and have fun and be loose, then it's like, okay, well, if the other person's on into that, that was my authentic loose self.

[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: definitely.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and that is so important in every, and again, it's theoretical, but it's so important in every area of your life.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it does get a lot easier with age, for any listeners who have more on their 20s.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a little bit harder to just be like, I'm polarizing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So who cares?

[SPEAKER_03]: Some people don't like me.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like you want everybody to like you.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I also definitely have some people please are in me, but you do understand that some people you're going to be right for and some people you're not.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that is fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was about 10 years ago, then now for yeah, I'm and I hope it's going to get easier and easier as we grow older.

[SPEAKER_02]: My gut is that it will, just given I, you know, seeing videos of older women that are older than me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, talking about their experiences.

[SPEAKER_02]: It seems to get more and more freeing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I think so.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like a whole while.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but I think we can infuse dating life with a little of that now.

[SPEAKER_03]: If that's what's to come.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's have it now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's have fun now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's be playful now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's chill.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I, I'm the reason I'm bringing this up is because improv has really changed my life and some of these exercises that I do with public speaking coaching.

[SPEAKER_03]: It just, I think imperfection is a big thing is that [SPEAKER_03]: In comedy, when you mess up, that's actually what you in stand-up talk about and in improv, you glam onto, and that becomes the game, and then your entire team is doing that mess up.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's human and it's vulnerable.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so this feeling of going on a date, and yeah, look cute, you know, put your best foot forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you really can just [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that must feel really comforting.

[SPEAKER_02]: to be in an improv team situation where you make a mistake and that becomes the team's mistake for lack of a better word.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like that becomes their mission is to support you in that mistake.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it, yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not just, oh, let's all erase the mistake.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the opposite.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's let's embrace the mistake and then every single one of us is whatever, stuttering over a word or whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it becomes the thing that the audience loves.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, it's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's a big part of clown work, too, is the full, the failure, the disaster.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a great, it is great to do it as a team.

[SPEAKER_03]: Really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that sounds really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Improv scares me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought you'd be a good thing for a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_03]: You'd be an incredible an improv.

[SPEAKER_03]: I am, I think some of my one-on-one teaching, I want to almost be the pre-improved teacher.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like I think I could teach someone one or two classes to make them unafraid of going into an improv class.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is, I'd like to be the go between.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that idea because I really like presenting at work.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like really like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I had never until our conversation thought about how that might relate to something like improv.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought about how it relates to dates.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mostly because I think earlier in my life, I struggled to flip, like the skills are similar, but the demeanor is different.

[SPEAKER_03]: Mm, yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I struggle to go into date mode.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I see.

[SPEAKER_02]: From work mode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, the demeanor is flip, but I think part of what I do with public speaking codeuring is try to get people to be a little more the way they are with their friends at work.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, not in an unprofessional way, but in a loose, fun way.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, yeah, I'm free at Lee inappropriate.

[SPEAKER_02]: See, I think that's the line for me that I would that I had a hard time with.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I got it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I, it is fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's my grand conclusion.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want people to find dating fun even if the outcome isn't as fun, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not fun to go on a date and not want to see the person again or to go on a date and want to see the person again and they don't want to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's.

[SPEAKER_02]: Objectively not fun and there's nothing you can do about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think the actual experience.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you don't have to be thinking about it all day long and freaking out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you can just be like, all right, here's the day.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think, and yes, we talked a lot about the part that you can work on and that's what we'll do with little exercises today.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, oh, and you were saying that you wouldn't be couldn't improv.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you would, I think we just have these blocks to the good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think the good is already in us.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just we have these little defenses up, but you, you're, yeah, you do bits with your boyfriend.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that isn't enough, but I think that's the, [SPEAKER_03]: It's getting over feeling silly, but embarrassing stuff ends up yielding good things.

[SPEAKER_03]: true.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I found it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's easier.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's easier for me to do on social media, where like I, I almost like I am usually I'm so clumsy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like usually do something very silly in a video that I'm editing or a video that I'm filming unintentionally.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I always include that in my final edit because it's real in a 2 I am, but there's a barrier between the person [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's a posting barrier.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's bring short.

[SPEAKER_02]: Me doing the stupid thing and the person viewing the stupid thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you're still deciding that you're going to show it and taking a second.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you would be allowed to not do it because you're in control, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think you can get there.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you can get there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe, maybe this will be my goal.

[SPEAKER_02]: For 2020's next, it's taking improv class.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will be your Sharpa.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is actually kind of fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but that's not why we're here.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so there are some things like general things that I'm thinking of that are very useful for first dates.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, humor, charm, dynamism.

[SPEAKER_03]: So even in tone of voice, we're gonna do an exercise that plays with tone of voice.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I said that sort of flatly, but instead of saying, I went to the record store.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, [SPEAKER_03]: I went to the record store just something to and I think you can practice that a little bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just didn't you can practice it so that you are a little more interesting to hear vocally even.

[SPEAKER_03]: I also think generally thinking on the spot is so helpful because somebody says something and in real time you respond and you don't freeze and then I think we're going to do some exercises in terms of [SPEAKER_03]: to each other because you are trying to connect with somebody when you're dating even if it's just for the date, you know, just conversationaly finding a way to connect and a lot of that is about listening and hopefully if you model that kind of listening the person is going to also.

[SPEAKER_03]: I, dearly.

[SPEAKER_02]: ideally.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think the thinking on the spot combined with the listening is a really important thing to work on because I think a lot of people, due to nerves, are not listening they're waiting to talk.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we do that because we are worried that if we don't prepare the thing we're going to say we won't say a good thing right I will say I have done a lot of improv and worked with a lot of people in this capacity and it's always better when you don't plan I know that is very, very hard to believe, but I have people I just taught a public speaking like a group class.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was last minute an hour and a half before somebody asked me to sub and we did we had people make up commercials on the spot and they were so and these are people who do not do improv and they were so funny and so impressive and You could just first of all them were shocked by what came out of their mouth, but also they they there's no way they could have sat down and written a thing and performed it and had it be as good as just the wildness [SPEAKER_03]: of what is both inside of you, but also I think there's some channeling that happens when you're forced to.

[SPEAKER_03]: So then not planning.

[SPEAKER_03]: And again, that's theoretical practice leads you to believe this, but not planning is always going to be better because it's going to be real.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be present.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be in response to actual prompts.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, don't plan.

[SPEAKER_03]: And listen.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's usually the advice that I give my, like people that work for me and stuff when I coach them on presenting at work, a lot of people like to have a script.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is actually true for podcasting too that a lot of podcasters like to have a script.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and I don't for the reason that we're talking about.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have bullets, like right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have bullets, but it's basically like, okay, I want to hit that point at some point.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure they know about this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure I talk about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: be the in-betweens, the transitions, the details, the color.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is so much better on the fly.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have to get, you have to practice it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and be open to that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do think you need to practice being in perfect and practice thinking on the fly, but also it is a perspective that that is gonna be fine and better.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think that's the and better part.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, it just is.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, I mean, I think you know it from literally every wedding toast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you've heard.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the people that are reading.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's never ever as good as the people who aren't reading.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not that those people weren't reading are even better.

[SPEAKER_03]: They just, yeah, they have that.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a little more of a willingness to take a risk.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to first work on dynamism and expressiveness, because I think that really is helpful.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think I am generally fun on dates.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think I have energy and I have spunk.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think some people are lower energy, but I also think you have it in you.

[SPEAKER_03]: One has it in one to up that energy.

[SPEAKER_03]: and that is a really important thing to practice.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to have you say, oh, look, the tulips came up totally normally.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, the tulips came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Perfect.

[SPEAKER_03]: And now I'm going to have you say it really angry.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, the two ups came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even more.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, the two ups came up so good.

[SPEAKER_03]: And look, you wouldn't necessarily say something angrily on a date, but it's like you are gonna have a perspective.

[SPEAKER_03]: and you're going to feel something in a big way.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just like, and this is even something in terms of language.

[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people are like, yeah, it was math.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, what did you think?

[SPEAKER_03]: What did what were the feelings?

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, get into that dynamism even vocally.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now I want you to say it really afraid.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, the tulips came up really super good and this is going to be good on YouTube because your face looks scared and then let's do sad really try to be sad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, look, the tulips came up beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really felt that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's do British.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, god.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_02]: Well, look, the tulips came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Gorgeous.

[SPEAKER_03]: One more time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even more, even more.

[SPEAKER_03]: Look, the tulips came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, the tulips came up.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, gorgeous.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think actually, I'm so glad that it came up because being, you're never going to be good unless you're down to be bad.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so embarrassed to super true of acting, but this is like, I'm sorry, but this is a breakthrough moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is you did it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's true, it's like, this is the thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that was like, that was so good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to invite the listeners, the viewers, who wherever you are to do this with us, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like as Miriam is giving me these prompts, do it with us.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you have to pause it or you want to do it over me, like lean into this.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're probably by yourself listening right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: So no one will see or hear you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: I really think that was an important moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and it were just joking around, but no one wants you to be good at a British accent.

[SPEAKER_03]: They want you to do it with gusto.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, so fun to the sake of time you did it to see, you know, and like your face change.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, it's awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: feel like that exercise that we just did about saying something in different tones could be a really good warm-up to do before going on a date.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like to get yourself loose.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about that?

[SPEAKER_03]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have a few of those.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think moving your face around in ways that it doesn't normally move, and this will be for YouTube.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to look really stupid.

[SPEAKER_03]: But like, [SPEAKER_03]: Like, uh huh, I think that really helps because it's stupid and also just to make your face more elastic.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it helps make you not feel like it's such a big deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think singing is really useful.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just vocally, I think it calms you down to sing.

[SPEAKER_03]: But also, I think, again, it's sort of silly.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it just, it gets you into your emotions a little more, which I actually think helps you be more authentic.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's a bunch of people that I work with who I need them to be a little bit more vulnerable and a little softer and a little less I'm professional buttoned up perfect so I make them sing even if it's privately and then.

[SPEAKER_03]: Smiling is a little bit like power pose so power pose and smiling the little like faking tripping yourself up if you can dancing really stupidly.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like to do with clients I worked with a little bit more, keep up perfectly, or with kids that'll do it immediately, but keep up perfectly straight face and dumb dance.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like dance is stupid as you can with a straight face.

[SPEAKER_02]: While your face is totally straight, and I love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, but yes, I definitely think saying things dynamically is an awesome pre-date warm-up.

[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of these are.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things I used to do when I coached volleyball, and I actually do this with my adult team too, but it works even better with kids to your point, is that if we were playing really poorly, and I needed to call timeout, I would like tell them something, but then I would point at one of them, and they had to lead everybody else in a stupid dance.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it like gets the matter of their heads, and also I think is kind of a mind-fuck.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you've called a timeout and the [SPEAKER_03]: So good.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, well, they're loose and ready.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they don't care what something happened over there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they've got a secret.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they have a secret exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I think, really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't thought about how that might translate into dating, but I think it could.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to do something that's related to getting connected.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think on dates.

[SPEAKER_03]: You even if it's not going to end up being a match, if you want the date to go well, meaning not be a nightmare for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do think it's really important to find something in common.

[SPEAKER_03]: And to conversationally be connecting.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's people that feel more like buddies.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you had a great conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I want us to have a conversation, but just with one sentence.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we can have the sentence be saying related to dating.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I tried to look cute for my date and that's the only thing we're going to say we're not going to copy each other instead we're going to sort of.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's an acting exercise.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to react to the way they set it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So say our version in response to how they person set it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, um, I tried to look cute for my date.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look cute for my date.

[SPEAKER_02]: I tried to look cute for my date.

[SPEAKER_02]: I tried to look cute for my date.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look cute for my date.

[SPEAKER_02]: I tried to look cute for my day.

[SPEAKER_02]: I tried to look cute for my day.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look cute for my day.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look cute for my day.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look at it for my day.

[SPEAKER_03]: Very good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you can see how it was like, it's not we are getting we weren't getting further conversationally, but I think there's a way in which you got a little angry and then I was like, oh, I'm going to go full throttle and then you're like, oh, I'm going to go more apologetic, but there's this sort of energy it's nice with the same sentence because it's sort of energetically responding.

[SPEAKER_03]: and being like, oh, you know what, right now we need to take it down a little, oh, you know, it lets bring up the energy a little, it's not something you're going to consciously think about on a date.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just think this exercise reminds you of getting in sync.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, practice is getting in sync.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also think it reminded me that I can read body language and tone really well as a human.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think we all can as a human, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know that I would have [SPEAKER_02]: where that exact moment that you were talking about, I kind of had two options in my head.

[SPEAKER_02]: I could like escalate further where I would have been quite literally screaming or dial the pack.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that realization I think was important well and body language is such an enormous part of the day again it doesn't need to be super conscious you are good at that but you haven't realized you're good at that, but yeah that's part of listening you're listening to words, but you're also someone might start to say something, but you can tell their little embarrassed about it, but you're curious about it, so you make them not be embarrassed about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I say, oh, what were you saying?

[SPEAKER_03]: That was super interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever it is, like, draw stuff out of someone, be aware of when there may be trying to shy away from something, but you want to know what it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's just an example.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think that's a really important game.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this is, okay, I want to talk a little bit about using strong language.

[SPEAKER_03]: We touched on that a little bit earlier.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, because I mentioned saying it was whatever meh, even, and I think I did it earlier in the interview, but people say the word so a lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's super common.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it actually is and not to get in anyone's head about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it actually, if you hear it say on a panel discussion, it's not just a filler word.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bit of a deflating word.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you say, how long have you worked in factory farming?

[SPEAKER_03]: And you asked me that question.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ask me that question.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, Miriam, how long have you worked in factory farming?

[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's been four years.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now, ask me again.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, Miriam, how long have you worked in factory farming?

[SPEAKER_03]: Four years.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I probably performed it slightly differently.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not again to get anyone obsessed with so.

[SPEAKER_03]: reminding yourself that your language can be strong.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can say it's essential that I really love this.

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel strongly that because that is who you are.

[SPEAKER_03]: Don't pretend you're into a movie you're not into love or hate.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think being aware of the times where you act like you don't care.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's not very helpful on a date.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it is something that we do a lot because somehow caring has become uncle in society.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is true, true, or the younger you are.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and even, but even internet-wise, this concept of cringe.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is such a thing of, yeah, you're not supposed to care, but caring is the coolest thing, you know?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's fine to be embarrassing.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's all fine, you know?

[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously.

[SPEAKER_03]: you know, be aware that it is a first date.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is a understanding.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think even in your language, making it clear that you care about something, if you care about something, is awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think can model that for the other person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you are really passionate about something and opening up about something that you are passionate about, I think that gives space for the [SPEAKER_03]: totally.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't have to be the same thing at all, but just, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, in 2000 is very catchy.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to have you do a little speech on the spot.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I want you to play with, there's a lot of things we could play with in terms of dynamism.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we won't do all of them, but adjusting your volume.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is more about giving a speech, but adjusting volume at different moments, adjusting [SPEAKER_03]: using your hands, smiling, there's all these little tricks that you can focus on.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to focus on dynamism in tone because I mentioned it earlier, so it can be a bit exaggerated, but really have your voice go up and down.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if you're talking about grass, grass is green, but sometimes in the summer it does get dark, but then also back in the spring, it's gorgeous and lush in the rain, whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's an example.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you're going to talk about [SPEAKER_03]: bananas and you're really going to focus on dynamism in the tone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Bananas are yellow and most people hold them when they eat at the bottom.

[SPEAKER_02]: But did you know that monkeys actually consider the bottom the top?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they eat from the other side because sometimes there are bugs in the bottom.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you eat them that way, you might eat a bug and not even know it.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is no way someone hearing that wouldn't hear how compelling that is.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, even doing it sort of exaggeratedly, you know, you know, now we're all just aware of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is really fun to listen to.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yes, in some cases, I'm talking about giving a presentation, but also conversational.

[SPEAKER_03]: You sounded really engaged and interested, which made me much more interested in what you were saying and you were talking about bananas.

[SPEAKER_03]: You didn't even have to be talking about Led Zeppelin.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I think that kind of [SPEAKER_03]: dynamism slash enthusiasm, and those things kind of go hand in hand, are really important to remember, and that's why I sort of paired it with the language, because it's your tone, but it also is what you are saying.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think both of those things if you can up up the excitement.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: What advice do you have for someone who feels performative when they do that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I was being very performative just now.

[SPEAKER_02]: But even even a toned down version, like what would your advice be for somebody who's feeling that way?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think practice it on a regular basis, because there are people who simply speak with a monotone and they really can adjust that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think if you are conscious of it in situations where it doesn't really matter at the dry cleaner, at the coffee shop, then it will become a little bit more natural.

[SPEAKER_03]: No one's really asking you to say, like, hi, I'm Sherry, I'm at this date.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's so great, you know?

[SPEAKER_03]: You do it in a way that feels authentic to you, but just having some awareness.

[SPEAKER_03]: that both your tone and your general enthusiasm.

[SPEAKER_03]: It also might be that you can do it from a different angle.

[SPEAKER_03]: You are specifically thinking about your tone, but you also can just simply say, I'm going to go into this with some enthusiasm and get into the emotion of that and maybe you listen to some music beforehand that gets you feeling that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like the idea that you had about practicing it in lower pressure environments, like you gave the example of the dry cleaner, but I also could see it in a dinner that you go to with a friend to go in thinking, like, OK, I'm going to do my pre-date exercises for this dinner with my friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to go in with this mindset to familiarize yourself with it a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_03]: think even being aware of how you speak.

[SPEAKER_03]: So some of this is, I mean, one of the things I have when I first start working with people is I have them tape themselves, speaking for five minutes, and I never see that, but they watch it and they self assess.

[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times you do need someone else witnessing and saying, you're rolling your eyes, you don't even know it or I think you're not quite aware of how many umms or likes or there's all these different things, but I think even just being aware, maybe I do speak.

[SPEAKER_03]: monotonously.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I could change the volume and you even were doing it with the banana thing like bananas are so cool they are so amazing you know that that kind of dynamism Yeah, just to be aware of these things again.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I just started speaking with my hands speaking with your hands can help you get a little more into stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think being aware that the way that you are coming off.

[SPEAKER_03]: especially when your nervous could be a little flat.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so that awareness then in all of your life, it's not even about necessarily, okay, now it's the night to practice.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is great.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think sometimes if you know, when I first started recording the podcast, then then listening back, I was saying like a ton.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that was a good, of course.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that was enough to have some [SPEAKER_03]: And then now I think I do it a little less in a way that is enough for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a good practice to to be cognizant of.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, okay, this will be a funny last one.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: worlds worst.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do a little scene.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to be the world's worst version of whatever occupation I give to you.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can be rude, stupid, incompetent, anything.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is just fun for all of us that are trying to be good.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think a big theme of all of this is [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't need to be good or perfect or fancy or shiny.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you, especially in this AI moment, you human are, this is not theoretical.

[SPEAKER_03]: You human you is what we want.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, this is your opportunity to be bad.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, let's see, you're going to be the world's worst.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's say Taylor.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, hi, I want to get my grandmothers dress hemed just one inch shorter.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just a little bit smaller than her and it's this beautiful Victorian dress.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love it so much.

[SPEAKER_03]: Give me that dress.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, it's my now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, what, what?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'll take that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just gonna take these, I'm just gonna take these scissors right here and it's gonna, we're gonna go right down the middle.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna be perfect.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna go to you just trust me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_03]: You just cut the dress.

[SPEAKER_03]: You just cut my grandmother's dress.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why did you, why did you do that?

[SPEAKER_03]: Why did you do that?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a professional.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know what I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: You just made my grandmother's wedding dress into a crop top.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you never told me it was a wedding dress, so that's really on you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's worst, it looks so good.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're just through yourself into that.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was really amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: How did that feel this whole, all these exercises?

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I feel much better now than I did when I was doing the British accent.

[SPEAKER_02]: But still funny that that was, why do you think that was so hard?

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's because I personally think I am good at accents.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I am just never done that was the and I also want to be so clear that I don't think but I did was a good British accent.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that wasn't even the exercise to do good.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was just to do one.

[SPEAKER_03]: But no, that is really, but that is, that's again why I think it was a breakthrough, because you don't need to be good even at the things that you're good at.

[SPEAKER_03]: And [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that was important.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like a similar thought that I have about how I think I'm a decent singer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a good singer, I'm not trained or anything like that, but like in a karaoke room, I'm usually like decent, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So when I do a song that is not my song, that is like either out of my range or like a style that I'm not very good at, [SPEAKER_02]: nervous or like extra shy maybe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because I think this is actually something I'm good at and right now I'm not good at it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I told that is very human.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's easier to be bad at something I know I'm bad at.

[SPEAKER_03]: That makes more sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, if I went out and played softball, it would be like whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even, who cares?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sometimes with art, it's the, a novelist is like, what's going to make a painting?

[SPEAKER_03]: And a painter's like, I'm going to write a book.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like you care less about the thing that isn't your thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it, [SPEAKER_03]: it's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's also great to do, you know, this is your podcast and almost all the time you would be the one asking the questions.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was a flip for you and I'm very happy that you let me do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, we have to honor that on your podcast you let me like run the show for a couple minutes there and do something that you did not expect at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was super fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I actually was, I will mention this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't recorded the entry yet because I like to wait until I've had the conversation, but I will mention in the intro that that I did fly completely blind into this, like you were like, I'm gonna write a class and I was the point is that I can't know what's coming because if I'd known what was coming, it would have ruined the whole song.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we're asking other people to do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think [SPEAKER_03]: some moments where and the thing is the more you do improv them more you are doing the inventing but even with the Taylor thing you know you just came up with this thing of I'm going to take I'm just going to go for it take the scissors cut this dress in half and that's not something that you pre-planed it just came out of you and that is good yeah I think I'm now I'm feeling like oh my god that I do the scene right which is not the point [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think that is a great way.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm going to do be bad.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was perfect.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a great takeaway.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there's, yes, I think there's like a million ways to get more comfortable with dating and the big, a huge thing is to be playful and to not take it too seriously.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if it is a bad date, just be like, well, I was about to do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's also something.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, it's like, obviously, I've bad improv shows, that happens and you just have to be like, yeah, dude, you got to have to keep on doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not always your day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really hope that people can take away that looseness from this episode, because I think we put so much pressure on ourselves, going into dates.

[SPEAKER_02]: and that it either has to be a great date or that we have to be the best version of ourselves or that all of these things that we're hoping for from the outcome versus sort of enjoying the process.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that goes into relationships also.

[SPEAKER_03]: True, it definitely very heightened on a first date, but I find actually for me sometimes the dating, it was around date three that it got harder.

[SPEAKER_03]: because date one I didn't care yet and then date two date one obviously went well Thursday too so I'm still chilling and then when I start to like someone and get physical with someone that is when I'm sort of like oh I got to keep up them liking me and that's when I would get [SPEAKER_03]: insecure sometimes or or feel like I had to behave in a certain way or look a certain way.

[SPEAKER_03]: So keeping this into those moments also of what I am is myself.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have spent so many number of years becoming this person.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's what that person is gonna get.

[SPEAKER_03]: I am too tired to like keep to do a huge act.

[SPEAKER_03]: I really just want to be present with the person and there's so many more be present, get connected exercises that exist in improv.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it really is about the two of you together creating something so that it's not a show.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's who are you two together and doesn't make sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that I think it being a show can be the most tiring thing like we got a few submissions from listeners saying that they they're so exhausted either they're like, oh, it's had a long day at work.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I have to go on this date with the stranger.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think these exercises can hopefully get you out of that mode a little bit and into a looser mode where it doesn't feel like as big of a burden.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a what can happen.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that hopefully can be, I know that there are some people who are deeply introverts, but hopefully that curiosity still exists.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just who is this person?

[SPEAKER_03]: What is the food gonna taste like?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's there is like some Buddhist element too.

[SPEAKER_03]: It of, we don't know what's gonna happen and that's a good thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I like the point that you made about people being introverts because I think that somebody could hear the back and forth that we had and, you know, they know that I'm an extrovert and like that this high energy is my thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I want to reiterate the point that the idea is not that everybody gets this high energy persona that they then go into dates with, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, great.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's one of the exercises that we could have done in UCB people talk upright citizens Brigade.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a improv school.

[SPEAKER_03]: They talk about game.

[SPEAKER_03]: So say your game is I'm obsessed with salmon.

[SPEAKER_03]: So in every scene, no matter what we're playing ski ball.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're singing karaoke.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going hiking.

[SPEAKER_03]: My I my character is going to always bring up salmon.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then if we're heightening that in the final scene, I'm.

[SPEAKER_03]: at my wedding to salmon, and so in as an improviser, you're taught as the straight person, unless you're two peas in a pod to say, it seems like you're really obsessed with salmon.

[SPEAKER_03]: or like it seems like you're in love with Sam and you say the thing that the audience is hearing so that we can then play the game and then I have to justify and say yes, I'm obsessed with Sam and because I'm from Alaska, whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that kind of listening to someone could happen at a very quiet level.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, yes, you and I are both absolutely extroverts, but you can have a very quiet conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: or someone is saying something about their job, and then something peaks your curiosity so you ask for more information, that can just be an unraveling, and you are really listening, and I think introverts can be incredible listeners, so use that to your advantage.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think sometimes introverts can be very like, this is my show, so use that to your advantage to keep the conversation going.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think you can still leverage that like modulation in tone and how that makes things more interesting in a quieter way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have to be overpowering because to your point that my my thing that I work on is not steam rolling a situation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And also, you know, who knows, it could be two introverts.

[SPEAKER_03]: It could be an extra one introvert.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're just all finding a way to connect.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, yeah, humor, dynamism, enthusiasm, playfulness is all, yeah, they're all super helpful for having your date be a good experience almost no matter what ends up happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that's the goal, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like we want, we want to enjoy the journey and not be as worried about the destination, even though we are hoping for a certain one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and this is a life thing, too.

[SPEAKER_03]: True, true?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're going around and you're just trying.

[SPEAKER_02]: So true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Miriam, this was very fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: My heart rate is elevated.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think my like, whoop is probably going to be like, you were in a high stress.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's short form, but you're super.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're completely ready.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like 100% sounds scary.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it would be fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm guessing there's some options in New York City.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is an absurd number of options.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna check that out.

[SPEAKER_02]: But if you were listening to this and didn't get the chance to do it with us, I encourage you to go back and kind of do the exercises yourself because I know that experiencing them with you was so much more valuable for me than it would be just listening to it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I hope that listening does something but I agree, trying to get engaged in some way.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I also do a lot of little micro public speaking tips, mostly on LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do them a little bit on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok too, but mostly on LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have all of them on there, so that those are more exercises and more ideas about in your everyday life, how to get a little looser and things like pre-presentation, pre-pitch, pre-date, pre-anything, ways to loosen up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so speaking of which, where can the listeners find you if they want to hear more about this?

[SPEAKER_03]: Please find me on LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: I never would have mentioned LinkedIn when I was promoting the pod, but I like LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_03]: And TikTok at Xapil YouTube at Xapil Instagram at the Xapil podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: The website is Xapilpodcast.com and the podcast is on.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, you know, everything's everywhere, you know, and everything, but yes, it's everyone I have data and a lot of these, a lot of these issues are discussed of, yeah, moments of nervousness, transcending them, miscommunications, yeah, it's a truly wild ride.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, yeah, if you want to do a little, if you're preparing for an interview or a panel or you want to do media training, I do all of that stuff and I make sure it's fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Always, I think that's something some public speaking coaches can be a little serious.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it should be super fun because it can be challenging.

[SPEAKER_03]: So make it a good time, [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you again.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was wonderful having you back.

[SPEAKER_03]: We got thank you for for being open to the idea.

[SPEAKER_03]: You being open to this idea is very improv.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very, yes, and you're like, oh, great.

[SPEAKER_03]: That actually makes perfect sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, yes, I am very, very appreciative.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, any time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll see you on the Patreon for our bonus app.

[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And everyone else, we will talk next week.

[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.