[SPEAKER_02]: Why would I want there to be more men here right now?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, because they love that there's the way the men do show up love that a men do show up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love that like I was at another event where there were literally lines.

[SPEAKER_02]: There were lines to speak to the men.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where is this?

[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome to another episode of Finding Mr.

Right the Podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host, Ally Jackson, and I'm giving you my positive and practical approach to dating and relationships based on my own experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm also chatting about things going on in my life as well as always.

[SPEAKER_02]: This week, I am tired y'all, and that is because there is a new baby kitten in my life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her name is Emmy, which is short for Emily Gilmore as discussed last week.

[SPEAKER_02]: But last week, we didn't have her yet, and now we have her, so she is [SPEAKER_02]: Currently, nothing at my feet, but if you're watching the video on the Patreon, because our ten dollar tier Patreon members get full video access for the main pod.

[SPEAKER_02]: You will probably see her at some point.

[SPEAKER_02]: She will probably jump up here during this little intro section.

[SPEAKER_02]: This week, I'm super excited for the guests that are on this episode in my living room, actually.

[SPEAKER_02]: Another one of the IRL recordings I'm trying to do more of those, of course, dependent on guests being available in New York City.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I timed this specifically because, Alley Goldberg, who runs the love is in blind comedy dating show, was coming to New York.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was doing a show in New York at Little Field in Brooklyn, which is a great event space venue.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I thought perfect, we'll do an IRL recording and I do those in my living room.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's very cozy and I like to feel like it's just a natural conversation that's not like an interview per se and more of a conversation and this conversation was really focused on in-person dating and she actually brought with her one of the guys from the show that I saw on Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've been talking about [SPEAKER_02]: the possibility of having a guy that's been on one of her shows before come.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I went to the show and absolutely loved all four of the guys that she had on stage.

[SPEAKER_02]: She does such a good job of casting her and her team.

[SPEAKER_02]: She and her team.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this guy Sasha is on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he is single, everybody.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you were in New York City or not, maybe he's open along distance.

[SPEAKER_02]: And your ancient Sasha, his handle is we say it in the episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also in the show notes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also going to be posting him and the other guys from the show in my Instagram story.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you were listening to this in the week that this airs this airs on Monday, January from January.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whoa, Monday, July, seventh.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have in my pinned like this week on the pod, a more new podcast episode, rather Instagram story highlight that I do.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have pinned the little blurbs that Ali had prepped for each of the guys for the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you'll hear us talk about the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I won't go into too many details about it here.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the best shows I've seen like of this ilk comedy dating any that kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: So funny, so heartwarming.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she actually has a show coming up in DC this Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know we have a lot of DC listeners from when we did our show down there are finding Mr.

Wright live show and she has a whole host of other cities coming up LA San Diego San Francisco Portland just so many.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you can see all of those and grab your tickets or apply it to be on the show at love isn't blind dot co that's also in the show notes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we just really had a great conversation about connecting in person and a little bit about like dating culture in America versus Europe because Sasha is European and we just talked a lot about [SPEAKER_02]: what it's like to be dating in person and kind of like what drove her to build this show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of it was her skepticism about dating and her skepticism about men, frankly, straight men.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this show has restored a lot of that for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I really see how that happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like watching this show, seeing these amazing people and being just really touched by their stories and by the stories that are developing on stage, I totally see that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it really lends itself well to where we are [SPEAKER_02]: as a culture in dating, which we'll get to when we get to our media mentioned, but I just think it's really, really well-timed.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's really meeting the moment, and I hope that you're all able to go see a show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Great date idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, go there as a single, because she does a really good job of setting people up, but also a really great date idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Super fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love a comedy show as a date, so shout out to them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited for y'all to hear that interview.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Emmy is home with us, by the time you're listening, she'll have been with us for about a week.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so far, it's going really well.

[SPEAKER_02]: As I record right now, I have yet to introduce her officially to my cats.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, one of the things that I have been doing to sort of prep them and kind of help them with their anxiety on my vet's recommendation.

[SPEAKER_02]: So please talk to your vet.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I've been using Sunset Lake CBD.

[SPEAKER_02]: They have a pet tincture.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been putting it in my cat's food.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do that when they go to the vet.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when we travel in things like that, and I notice that it really helps settle them.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I was talking to my vet about kind of the introductions and I said to her, you know, I have the CBD tank sure as you know that I use when he comes here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was talking about Rory because I was at his vet appointment the other week.

[SPEAKER_02]: was like, do you think that'd be a good idea as we're transitioning with the new kitten?

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, yes, absolutely, in addition to a lot of other things, such as the fair amount of users from fellow way that we have and a lot of other things.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she said, absolutely, go forth.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's been, I think, really helpful.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know that the Sunset Lake Pet CBD Tincture is helpful when we go to the vet and when we travel.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's helping show them out a little bit as they've kind of transitioned to a new smell, a new animal being in the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: As always, we have a discount code for you for sunset lake.

[SPEAKER_02]: They have so many other products.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't have pets, most of their products are for humans.

[SPEAKER_02]: I personally love their sleep gummies with the melatonin.

[SPEAKER_02]: They also do nighttime sleep tinsures and gummies that don't have melatonin.

[SPEAKER_02]: They do salms.

[SPEAKER_02]: They just do all sorts of things, smokeables, everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sententlikescbd.com slash FMH.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's our vanity URL so that they know we set you and you can use our code FMH-Twenty-two- ero.

[SPEAKER_02]: For their entire site, you can use it as many times as you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: It never expires.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sententlikescbd, I love them so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a cat to do too.

[SPEAKER_02]: So one week of Emmy, I forgot how I'm gonna use the word annoying, but obviously she's also very cute and I love her and I'm obsessed with her, but like I forgot how annoying kittens are.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like she has so much energy and she's so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Something that I am really treasuring is that I could not touch my kittens.

[SPEAKER_02]: When Rory and Logan were kittens, I wasn't able to touch them for like three weeks because they had ringworm.

[SPEAKER_02]: and so like in there more than three weeks probably because they kept getting it and then I'd get it because I would want to touch them and then I'd get it and then I'd give it back to them.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a disaster.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're both street cats.

[SPEAKER_02]: They both had ringworm from the street and I just couldn't handle them and get them used to human touch and socialization in the way that I really wanted to and because of that and they had to live in my bathroom by themselves and you know for longer than is normal for quarantine and I couldn't spend that much time in there because they would want to touch me and I couldn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was just really, it was really, really hard like looking back on that time, especially doing it by myself.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're both scallon and I both are making a conscientious effort to be the opposite with Emily, like to do everything that we really want to do with her and raise her the way that we really want to and things that I wasn't able to do with my boys and [SPEAKER_02]: Logan got over that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Logan is very cuddly and has great people skills now.

[SPEAKER_02]: But worry, I mean, I think some of his upbringing, upbringing is probably the wrong word, but like he was found alone way too young to be separated from his mom, like shit went down.

[SPEAKER_02]: He has lingering anxiety from that, but in addition to that, I wasn't able to give him like the love and touch that I really wanted to and that he really needed as a kitten since he was, you know, covered in a fungus.

[SPEAKER_02]: So [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it's just really lovely to be able to like love on this kitten, the way we want to love on this kitten.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's been fun to I'm going to use the word co-parent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't come for me with skyline like that's been really, really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: He works in the office more than I do.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't go into the office very often.

[SPEAKER_02]: I occasionally will go into a client's office.

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes a couple times a week.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been single mom and it up working from home some, but then he's been here.

[SPEAKER_02]: way more than usual.

[SPEAKER_02]: Usually we'll spend like three or four nights together a week and we typically would split those nights pretty evenly between his place in my place, basically like if we're doing something in Manhattan, we'd stay in his place, we'd do something in Brooklyn, we'd stay in my place.

[SPEAKER_02]: Usually more like four nights a week.

[SPEAKER_02]: This week, he's here all night, but all but one night, which has been really nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: If there is a night shift to be taken, like the first night, she was crying and crying and crying and we tried to let her cry out.

[SPEAKER_02]: That told us to, you know, obviously you don't want them to think that every time they cry, you're going to come in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But also our vet said if it gets to a point, you know, you can go in.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he stayed with her and was like up a lot of the night and then I took the morning shift.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it just was, it's been like really nice and she's so cute and I'm very excited for who to officially meet my boys.

[SPEAKER_02]: I say officially because there's been some like, we're, we're easing in.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's been like, sent swapping.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's been non visual interaction.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're starting to do some interaction through a baby gate, but today and tomorrow are going to be like big intro days.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fingers crossed.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to go well based on everything that's happened so far, but [SPEAKER_02]: That's the update with Low Miss.

[SPEAKER_02]: Which I've been calling her Little Miss.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe because she's the name is based on Emily Gilmore.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want her to be like proper, a proper lady.

[SPEAKER_02]: She is Sassy.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's got that.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's got that going for her with the Emily namesake.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's been really, really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: This weekend is the fourth of July.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're really staying local.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm playing a beat tournament on Saturday and so Skyline will watch her but we're really staying local for the fourth hoping she doesn't get too freaked out by the fireworks.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to hang at my place do like lunch around Brooklyn but close enough that we can kind of pop back in pop in and out and then watch the fireworks here in Brooklyn.

[SPEAKER_02]: So [SPEAKER_02]: just trying to stay around for a little gal.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's been really, really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's been cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Something else that I've really been enjoying this week is the conversations happening in the discord.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned about how the discord is one of the tiers of our Patreon, or something that you get on the ten dollar tier of our Patreon is this access to the discord community and conversations in there and different channels.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like encouragement, if you're going on a date or encouragement, if you have a job interview or things like that, [SPEAKER_02]: But I've been implementing lately a main pod discussion thread to, like, not only chat about what we're talking about on the Patreon episodes, but also talk about, you know, what's happening on the main pod this week.

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously last week, we had the MI, the asshole discussions.

[SPEAKER_02]: And something that somebody in the discord brought up that I think is such an important part of the conversation is the poster on Reddit who was talking about her roommate, who has a boyfriend.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now all of a sudden, everything is a three person event.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she feels like she has never any one on one time with her friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, you know, what do I do?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do I do anything?

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, our advice and something that I have done literally in this situation in the past, not with a roommate, but with a friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: is you know said like one last effort and to actually not just an effort of like trying to hang out but to actually talk to her about how you're feeling about the situation because there is a chance that she doesn't realize it because people can have people can just be very laser focused on what's going on in their life not that that's okay like that is still on her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that could be what's happening something that somebody brought up in the discord which I neglected to mention and should have is that this responsibility so often falls on our single friends single people in a group and I have been there time and time again with friends who are in relationships or like now friends with kids like that starting to become more of a thing to [SPEAKER_02]: And so much, the onus falls on the single person to be the one that's reaching out and continuing to maintain the friendship.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is so not fair.

[SPEAKER_02]: We put so much on single people to begin with.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like single, there's so much more that single people are dealing with versus partnered people.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not fair.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is just like one other thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's something that partnered people can very easily remedy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like there are some aspects of being single.

[SPEAKER_02]: where it's more difficult, the things that are going to fall on you versus a partner in person that partnered people can't really help with.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like an example of that would be partnered people could potentially share a bedroom and thus have lower rent because they can share a bedroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: And as a partnered person, you can't really help your single friends with that, like you're not going to subsidize their rent, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: This is something that you can do as a partnered person with single friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can be that person that is reaching out that is continuing to maintain the friendship that is wanting to spend one on one time with your friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: I personally, as somebody who now is in a relationship, I very much still crave one on one time with my friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting because most of my friends are actually in relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was one of the only single people in my broader friend group, my best friend also, but like besides us, like there aren't that many single people in our friend group.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it looks a little bit different for me because when I was single, my larger friend group was mostly people in relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am very, very grateful and lucky and blessed that those people very much wanted to and continue to want to maintain relationships with their friends like individually as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: probably helps that we're all like a big friend group also.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was a little bit different in the sense that it's like, I still want to maintain those in an individual friendships with those people who are in relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's now about making, I think, an intentional effort for it to continue to be individual because it's like when I was single and my partner friends were making plans with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm thinking about like my one friend that I used to work with.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have dinner all the time, just the two of us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now, I really want her husband to meet Skyline.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think they're really going to get along at our last dinner that she and I had together.

[SPEAKER_02]: We said that we were like, oh, shit, like we haven't even thought to invite the boys.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I so appreciate that about you, that even though she's been married now for two years, it's the wedding that I went to by myself in when was that, twenty-twenty-two.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she was married for almost three years.

[SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: Before that, they were dating for a while, obviously.

[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe not obviously, but they were.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we've like maintained this individual friendship on both ends.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like she's been wonderful.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I still want to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now like, I would love for your husband and my boyfriend to meet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel like they're going to get along.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I still want to have this individual friendship.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like totally on board with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yay, hooray.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I've also been in situations where it's like, oh, now we can do double dates.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, wait a minute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I still want to have my individual time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I know Skyline feels that way too.

[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of his friends are in relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually somebody message me asking if any of his friends are single and I was like, actually, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: At least none of his very close friends that live here that I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's just really important and a really important piece of the conversation in terms of like how that onus so often falls on single people and it really shouldn't and partner people need to step at the fuck up.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's something we actually talked about, too, with Ali and Sasha of this got brought up because one of the things that Ali does at her shows at the Levism blind shows is everybody's wearing a wristband originally started kind of like a stoplight party with like available taken.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's complicated.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now has evolved to include other types of relationship structures and [SPEAKER_02]: queer wristbands and just all sorts of other things, but the wristbands stand.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're wearing a red wristband, that means you're taking.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she does this thing at the beginning of the show where she has everybody that has a green wristband raises their hand and like all the different colors kind of raise their hand that the end she does red.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like everybody with a red wristband put your hands up and she makes everybody repeat this like oath that they will endeavor to set people up at this event.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she talks about how the owners always falls on single people and that like partnered people like step it up.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought that was really cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it just really plays into also this conversation that we had on the podcast week with the M and the asshole submission and then also what we've been talking about in the discord.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I appreciated that additional note that one of our discord members left.

[SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of IRL dating, this week's media mention is about dating apps, but it's not in a good way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Many of you may have seen that Bumble laid off a significant portion of their workforce this past week, where they plan to.

[SPEAKER_02]: They plan to lay off thirty percent of their workforce, which is a little over two hundred roles.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of fucking people and this comes after by the way, they did big layoffs in twenty twenty four.

[SPEAKER_02]: Early twenty twenty four, they laid off.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to say is twenty five percent of their workforce as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now here's another thirty.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure they hired a little bit in between now and then, but from twenty twenty three to now, that is a big, big change.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I mentioned a few weeks ago in media mentioned that Whitney will have heard was on the daily, which thank you for somebody who pointed out that if you don't have a New York Times subscription, you can you have to you can only listen to like the last three episodes of the daily for free before it start you start having to pay for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not going to use that as a media mentioned anymore for that reason.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for pointing that out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but she was on the daily if you want to go back and listen to it or there's like recaps and stuff online.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was talking about becoming the CEO of Bumble again, you know, we talked about all this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so sad to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think the word that comes to mind is sad that these major dating apps just like can't fucking figure it out, that they keep trying to do the same things slightly differently and expect it to work like hinges now working with Esther Pearl, who my love by the way, but they're now working with Esther Pearl on like different prompts and things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, guys, [SPEAKER_02]: No one is saying that dating up suck because the prompts aren't good enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: No one's saying that nobody asked for this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure they paid us to poor elk quite a lot of money to do this to partner with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody is asking for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: No one asked for this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I just, you see it so often from big corporations on the government.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, they see a problem and the problem in this case would be that like dating app users are way down, dating app shares have fallen a lot, like the shares of Bumble, which by the way jumps, twenty five percent after they announce the layoffs, just because it means they're going to be more profitable financially.

[SPEAKER_02]: have plummeted though, like over time from their peak shares of dating apps and like the profitability or not profitability, but like the value of dating apps have plummeted over the last five, six, seven years.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so they see this problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: And by the, I mean, like the big companies match being the largest one, obviously, they own hinge in Tinder, bumble being a sort of separate entity.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they see this happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: And their response seems to be let's add slightly different features and try to make our existing features better.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't see them doing anything demonstrably different.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think doing something demonstrably different is the only way that they are ever going to win.

[SPEAKER_02]: And frankly, I don't think they will.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they will.

[SPEAKER_02]: I personally think.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've said this for a while that I think dating apps are really overdue for a reckoning.

[SPEAKER_02]: I obviously, if I knew what that reckoning needed to be, I would be doing it myself, I don't.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, I sought myself when I was on dating apps, like, towards the end of when I was on dating apps especially.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the reasons I started going to in-person things because I was like, this is feeling really shitty.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just, they just don't seem to get it that like, [SPEAKER_02]: This is not working and what's going to make it work is not just like doing what you're doing slightly differently.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like I mentioned the ester pearl hinge partnership, for example, and again, to be clear, I love ester pearl.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would, I mean, if it's a approach, me to write new props, I would do it, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is not on her, but just the fact that they think [SPEAKER_02]: This partnership which I'm assuming their biggest play here was like brand recognition and like partnering with an expert.

[SPEAKER_02]: I shouldn't put that in quotes if you're watching the video.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's an expert partnering with an expert in the space partnering with like a very loud and informed and educated voice in the space.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm assuming that one of their major plays is just the association with her.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm also assuming like I said that they spent some serious money on this.

[SPEAKER_02]: and just to have a different version of the thing they're already doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: They have ten new conversation starters.

[SPEAKER_02]: The theme is quote your world and it's aimed essentially to encourage people to share beyond the typical details.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like something my pet thinks about me is an example.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I understand where it's coming from because it's intended to [SPEAKER_02]: spark deeper conversations and like in Esther Pearl's world, Alyssa Curiosity Inspire Playfulness, I get that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's still the same shit, like it's still a prompt on a dating out profile on which people are fatigued, like it's not actually helping.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I really did like [SPEAKER_02]: This media mentioned is now too full.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I apologize, but I really did want to talk about the hinge thing as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really did like what Whitney Wolf heard said on the daily about how she wants Bumble to be more than just a dating app to be to like be a connector of people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think she's on the right track with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't think it's going to actually happen from that app.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know that there is one app to save them all where it is going to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: My vision of it probably is that it ends up being more microcosms of apps or like hyperlocal things or really specific things.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'll hear about something similar in the interview that's coming up in the end of this episode, the second half of this episode, because Sasha runs a WhatsApp group that is built on friends of friends, like it's not something that anybody can join, but it's like over two hundred people.

[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of them have a lot of shared interests and they're going to different events together.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it has enough scale at over two hundred people that you don't know everyone.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there's a connection point there.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a reason that everybody is in that place and a way that they all arrived at that place.

[SPEAKER_02]: That I think is the future of where this is going.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I like where her heads at.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, first of all, do something about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, probably hopefully with this forty million dollars in savings they plan to, that's what they're estimating they're going to save with these layoffs.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, I just, I just don't think it's going to be one of the major apps that already exist.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they said that they're going to reinvest this forty million dollars anticipated savings.

[SPEAKER_02]: Most of it into product and technology development.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess if they're talking about maybe some sort of event rosters the wrong word schedule, like there's another app that's not launched yet, but that I've heard is in the works where it's like basically a roundup of events.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously this kind of thing exists already, but it's intended to be more of a dating focus for single people.

[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that's the play that Bumble is going to be trying to make with their tech within their existing app.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because they have tried to host events before.

[SPEAKER_02]: I talked about this when Whitney Welfard was not did her interview.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they've tried to host events before.

[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't work.

[SPEAKER_02]: They were terrible.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I went to a couple because I wanted to see what it was up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was single at the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I can't imagine they're going to try to run their own events again because like that's clearly not working or clearly didn't work at the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then again, maybe they were too soon, maybe it was too early for that, maybe now it could work.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so though, because I just think particularly with Gen Z and the articles that I've seen about Gen Z's attitude towards dating apps, [SPEAKER_02]: That is one of the major reasons why I think that it won't be and probably can't be one of the existing major apps that makes this work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it could be under a totally different name.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like match could release an app that you don't know is owned by match or bummer could do the same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I just don't think that an entrenched traditional dating app that already exists is going to be able to pivot in a demonstrable enough way to make that work.

[SPEAKER_02]: I hope I'm wrong because the user base is already there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it would be way fucking easier if this could happen on an app where the users are already there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just think it's gonna be really hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that doesn't mean like I'm saying, I say in the interview later in this episode, that doesn't mean I think like everybody should abandon dating apps.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just think it means that more and more dating apps should be a tool in your tool belt, toolbox, whatever and not the whole box.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like that metaphor very much.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like more and more, I think if you think of like the ways the places that you're meeting people and the ways in which you're dating as like a pie chart, I think Bumbles or excuse me, dating app share of the pie should shrink as it relates to both the efficacy, but also like the mental health aspects of engaging with dating apps in a time when the experience on dating apps is getting worse and worse and worse.

[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of people are still meeting on dating apps and I think it is a great way and currently one of the only ways to meet people with whom you would never interact.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it is much harder to come across the person who lives all the way across town and like you don't leave your neighborhood that often and they don't leave their neighborhood that often and maybe you don't even have any shared interests that you know about yet that you're doing yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so where would you meet?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's much harder to come across that person.

[SPEAKER_02]: in the wild by chance, then it is on a dating app.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, that's going to be really hard to change.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's ever going to change.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there needs to be a change.

[SPEAKER_02]: Unlike I said, if I knew what that change was, I would be out there doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be my new business venture.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the last I do not.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this is just my thoughts on sort of where dating apps are at.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, as I look at all of these, like, financials from the dating apps, it's so clear why they're doing this, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it is shareholder value.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I understand as a public company, you are beholden to that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's very difficult to exist as a company if your public value is tanking.

[SPEAKER_02]: But also, I just, I think it was like a, to big defail kind of situation.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now it's like, no, you can fail.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you are.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, what are you going to do now?

[SPEAKER_02]: So we shall see.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it'll be, it'll be really interesting to see which of these apps exist a couple years from now and in what form.

[SPEAKER_02]: So with that, I'm excited to transition over to my interview with Ali and Sasha.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll see you there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we are back with Ali and Sasha.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, and welcome to find him as to hide the podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having both of us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am so excited.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we are three days out from the show that where you were both on stage because Sasha, you were in Ali's show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love is in blind.

[SPEAKER_02]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was exciting.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so much fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't follow me Instagram stories, first of all, follow me, Instagram stories.

[SPEAKER_02]: But second of all, I was posting about it because, like, first of all, it was excited to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then after going, this was probably my favorite show I've been to this year.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I go to a lot of this show because, like, I do this.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I go to a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I saw the show as a in-person, as an audience member, like six months ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was, it was also so funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had like a lot of belly laughs and felt really good after.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, feels really like, I don't know, wholesome is the right word, but like, it was like, you feel great.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually would refer to it as wholesome, despite the fact that there were like, Diltos and sex dogs.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that makes me so happy because actually my favorite thing is that people say that I've, they say I've never been to a show that's so wrong.

[SPEAKER_03]: She ends so wholesome at the same time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: It makes me really happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So on that note, Ali, if you, what's your, what's your elevator pitch for those who don't know what love is blind is?

[SPEAKER_02]: I love isn't blind, excuse me.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's your elevator pitch?

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the shortest version is, love isn't blind is a comedy dating show where the men can't speak.

[SPEAKER_03]: Boom, we love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because sometimes straight men should be seen, but not heard.

[SPEAKER_03]: However.

[SPEAKER_03]: I will say, and I mean this sincerely, not just because Sasha's here, but I say this all the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: What's been amazing about the show is that actually I did create it from a place of being really jaded about men.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the men who agree for these kinds of shenanigans and are like here for the feminist joke, it's actually made me like really positive about men and to me to show his sort of become an answer of like, what is positive masculinity and what does that look like?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because there's so much discourse around toxic masculinity.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm already getting into the weeds, but [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, it's a dating show where the men can't speak.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very silly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully Sasha can attest.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not meant to be a roast show.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's meant to be really silly and ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_03]: Although I did do something experimental to Sasha this weekend.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: I asked his chat, GPT.

[SPEAKER_03]: about his flaws.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was so interesting to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So also so basically that the premise is that there's a bachelor at yes and her best friend is her best friend always there is always the best friend.

[SPEAKER_03]: So something that was really fun when I was devising the show was like okay what are the ways and moments that this could be awkward and how do I prevent that?

[SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted it to be a show for I wanted to be a show for real people.

[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to be a show for smart, nice people who are doing interesting things.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll hear from Sasha Marimova, but like I do feel like Sasha's sort of like a quintessential sort of archetype of like what I'm looking for, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's like he does a lot of community work.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like people who have interesting jobs, interesting hobbies.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, so anyway, so because it's real people, I did think about [SPEAKER_03]: If you have a bachelor out of there and she's not used to being on stage, and Hannah was fabulous.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hannah was some of them are shy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And anyway, there's a really long winded way of saying, I thought really intentionally about how would I make the bachelor ret come comfortable?

[SPEAKER_03]: And so she always brings her bestie on stage.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the other major part, of course, in terms of awkwardness, sorry, skipping ahead is like when a guy's eliminated, how do I keep that really fun and positive?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got the Bachelorette best friend and then four men, so Sasha, you were one of the four men that I saw on stage on Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: What about seeing that in person?

[SPEAKER_02]: May you think I'd like to apply for this this seems fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was maybe more of a challenge and just getting out of my comfort one and being on stage.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I remember it was really funny and I know you actually, you know, it is funny and you're making jokes, but like you're trying to put every on the best light.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that, you know, I was like, I'm why I am also personally say yes to a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very curious.

[SPEAKER_01]: We will talk about that more.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I say yes, I'd like to say yes to things.

[SPEAKER_01]: and even if they're on my comfort one.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I get myself into trouble sometimes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what I hear a lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: In particular, this one guy comes to mind from DC who is so sweet.

[SPEAKER_03]: I forget, like, his people nominate their friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so sometimes I find myself on these ooms with guys who are like, what is this and why am I here?

[SPEAKER_03]: But this guy was like, this sounds like my nightmare, but my new year's resolution was to embrace positive chaos.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was so sweet as an after the show, you know, he [SPEAKER_03]: He had a great time and he told me he's like if you ever have guys who are on the fence send them to me.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's fun to see the guys like be skeptical of me and then by the end be like that was such a wild memorable experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that I really felt was that obviously it's a comedy show also, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So like you're making jokes and you know you're poking fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I always felt like everyone on stage was in on the joke.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you feel that way Sasha like in the jokes even at your expense?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it seemed like it was like everyone's like in it together if you will.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's generally the vibe.

[SPEAKER_01]: The vibe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like I don't, I know it's jokes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're also on stage.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, yeah, we're part of this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what I also loves about this past New York show?

[SPEAKER_03]: So I have the same videographer who's been with me since day one, but for various reasons he didn't come to this show on Friday.

[SPEAKER_03]: First show without him.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I hired someone local and the audience cam went out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys remember that, but the camera that was capturing the audience went out.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it was adorable that the audience is like so in the audience.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you're camera went out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I'm like, I think so much.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, because I, and that's also why when everyone enters like the first thing I do when I come on stage is welcome everyone and then get into the wristbands that everyone's wearing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because I want everyone to feel like they're part of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So tell us about the wristbands.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so it started as a traffic light.

[SPEAKER_03]: So green if you're single, read if you're taken, yellow if you're confused.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was how I had it at the first show.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then very quickly, I got pride wristbands because I was having more of the LGBT [SPEAKER_03]: Q community and I want them to feel really welcome, but some of them are like, but now I'm getting hit on by people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, true.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the poly people wanted their own wristband because of course they did.

[SPEAKER_03]: So now we have poly purple.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then something that I thought was so interesting, because I mean, it's very obvious, but as a straight girl, unfortunately, I didn't think about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I had people approach me and say, I'm wearing a pride wristband.

[SPEAKER_03]: So now people think I only date women, but I also date men.

[SPEAKER_03]: So then we added bisexual blues.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: But so I do like stick with everyone and then [SPEAKER_03]: Even if you've a red wristbands, I have a job for you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tell you that you have a moral and legal responsibility to wing person the singles.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think [SPEAKER_03]: a lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think too many people are like, I mean, a relationship.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm done.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, bitch, you're not done.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, you're not.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, people up with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I make them pledge to wing, be good wing people.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I really want everyone to feel a part of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I love that couples come as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, at the end of the day, it's also a comedy show.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, as you know, if you successfully prove to me that you introduce singles after the show, I will give you a gram of mushrooms.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do.

[SPEAKER_03]: When you pulled out a gallon ipper.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That gallon bag was full too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like a couple cities ago, you know, but I get rid of mushrooms as I travel the country.

[SPEAKER_03]: Incredible.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're any mushrooms given out on Friday night.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know New York really let me down.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not as many as I thought.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're really very city by city.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Denver, everyone was already on mushrooms.

[SPEAKER_02]: Denver's like, oh, we're good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, DC, no one will touch them.

[SPEAKER_03]: San Diego, I go through a lot of mushrooms.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, San Francisco, I go through a lot of mushrooms, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Sasha, from your perspective, what was it like to be part of this show and to your point kind of go out of your comfort one a little bit and like tell me, tell us more about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also wanted to say one more thing about, you know, being in on the joke kind of.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you do a fantastic job about selecting the men because there is something that doesn't necessarily feel as competitive totally up there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I think even last time when you did it in New York, the guys were like banding together and like rooting for each other.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love the bromances.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's really feels nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I guess maybe because I saw that last time too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: you know, we're kind of like trying to support each other and right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that also makes a big difference and makes it feel really nice and fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think having that there is a collect like the collective senses for strong and [SPEAKER_01]: therefore you know I feel like I wasn't as nervous as I thought I would be I had a bunch of friends there too that was kind of nice I realized there was like maybe eight or nine people or something that came which was a lot and love that for a second like I got there and I was like oh shit they're all these people that know me really well and like if I embarrass myself I will you know that [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to let him down.

[SPEAKER_01]: This has got to be there forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, these are not all strangers, but it was really nice to have them there to support, you know, that was that was really fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, I think the most amazing part of it for me was having the blinds on the [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's round one.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're all blindfolded.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're just answering questions with thumbs up thumbs down and like numbers with their fingers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you get a question.

[SPEAKER_01]: You answer the crowd goes bananas.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have no idea why.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or someone else knows something.

[SPEAKER_01]: But at this energy, you can feel all this energy coming to you and you can't see anything and it like heightens that feeling.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's an amazing experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: So good to just have like two hundred people screaming and shouting at you and you're like, [SPEAKER_02]: In a very supportive way like everyone like it's like outrageous or funny or like if you're like okay my favorite part so in rounds one y'all are blindfolded to your point and you're you're answering yes or no you're also holding a paddle and if you want the bachelor right to have to answer the yes or no question then you raise your paddle but because you are blindfolded oh and sorry all four men have to be raising their paddle in order to get the answer from the bachelor right [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But because you are blindfolded, you don't know the other if the other men are raising the paddle, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So there was one guy on the stage who several times all three of you guys were raising your paddles and he was not.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the crowd was going wild like chanting his name and he was like, what's happening?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So this actually happens in every show.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure and it's funny because he actually sent me a sweet text the other day.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: I forgot about the battle, but I and I told him I was like, so my forgets in every single show and and it's it might be my favorite part too.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love it because it's like the audience goes crazy because this one guy forgets he's holding it, but [SPEAKER_03]: Of course he does, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because like, these are not performers that are on stage.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot happening to Sasha's point.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're blindfolded.

[SPEAKER_03]: People are screaming.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're in your head being like, what is everyone seeing?

[SPEAKER_03]: And what is going on?

[SPEAKER_03]: And so someone just forgets he's holding a paddle completely.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I love the audiences.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're shit.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I love how the first time the paddle is raised.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like an explosion when you get all four.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's so fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: And people tell me all the time they're like, you should make it clearer and I'm like, no, I shouldn't.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's part of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's part of it, friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I had seen the show and I was like, just raised the pedal every time.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's easy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was also cheating a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like knocking the other guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was also like, you know, I was like trying to mumble a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because if you speak, you'll get hit with a dodo from the woman in the front.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also, if she didn't like your answers, which I was like, I'm not speaking, and then I got hit, and I was like, oh, yeah, whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a teacher.

[SPEAKER_03]: Great.

[SPEAKER_03]: She, the ding-donger this time took her job.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if the guys, if they speak, if they try to speak, and I also joke if they just don't like what they're doing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So she took a very, she almost took a little too seriously, but I do prefer that to other some shows where the ding-donger is in the front row, just like, oh wait, but they did forget, she's holding it.

[SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't do anything.

[SPEAKER_03]: But she just like, that audience member just like, for any opinion she had, she jumped up and dinged the guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I was here for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was into it like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So part of the reason that I loved the show and one of the reasons I was excited to go is because I feel like so many people are trying to meet more people in person and I love the thing you're doing with the wristband and the way that you're incentivizing people to mingle and to set each other up because although I do still very much supporting apps and I think that they're useful to all.

[SPEAKER_02]: They are not the only tool and I think if you use them as such you will get super burned out on them.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I really love things that are new in different ways to meet people.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm curious.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure that that was part of the, oh my god.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've talked all day about this.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are your thoughts on people meeting IRL and yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think the dating apps are literally slot machines.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like they are designed to be addictive.

[SPEAKER_03]: They are designed to that every now and then someone wins so that the rest of you keep swiping.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think they're literally slot machines in Vegas.

[SPEAKER_03]: and like slot machines Vegas, you might win the lottery or your brain might rock.

[SPEAKER_03]: And your hands will get carpal tunnel.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's just like, I don't think it's healthy.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was kicked off the apps about a year ago.

[SPEAKER_02]: Were you recruiting for your show?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's like literally the number one.

[SPEAKER_03]: They didn't for like a full year.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I guess someone reported me.

[SPEAKER_03]: It just because it said in my profile, like I'm sincerely looking for myself, but also if you don't like me, no problem, apply to my show.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I got kicked off.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I didn't get back on and it was so wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the thing about real-life events.

[SPEAKER_03]: is that I love them and I have always loved them.

[SPEAKER_03]: I am a theater doork, so I love life performance.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the other thing that I think is nice is, I think people should just be living their lives.

[SPEAKER_03]: You should just be living their lives.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what I'm very biased for what I love about my show is like, it's also just a comedy show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: You meet someone or not.

[SPEAKER_03]: I will do my best.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is my job to make sure you have an amazing night.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's my job.

[SPEAKER_03]: So whether or not you meet someone, my job is, you know, I hope that everyone comes in as an amazing time.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I just feel like as opposed to like going to these events and hoping and hoping you're going to meet someone and then you're disappointed [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's such a racket.

[SPEAKER_03]: But what I also like to do at my events is I try to create a world again where it doesn't feel so scary to talk to each other.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there's like little details that I do very intentionally.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you remember, but once you guys were all on stage, I said, you know, if they can take these risks, if they can do these shenanigans, if run a two hundred fifty people, you can say hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, and so my brother, my twin, who is married, he said, yeah, a bunch of girls were talking to me and then they saw my red wristband and they were like, oh, so sorry, you're wearing red.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, move on, but it was like, [SPEAKER_03]: just like the openness of it that they also really just freed that they felt totally comfortable being like, yeah, we were hitting on you, but you're angry.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll let you go.

[SPEAKER_03]: But no, no shame around it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just like whatever, just go talk to everybody and I tell the contestants as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like dating is still dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: Go meet everyone, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So on that note, Sasha, you do not ultimately win the Bachelor at show somebody else.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're all winners, but yes, thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I feel.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so she chose somebody else, but you were still a winner in our hearts, but what was the experience like for you after the show, like in the venue?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I felt very energized after the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it's funny, it's exciting.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people came up and talked to me, which is also great.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that it was interesting because the tables are a little turned because usually women don't approach.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, though women out there approach guys does happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Please.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you're saying, no, yes, we love it, we love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also European, I'll say this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of different thoughts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think from like the American dating culture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can talk about that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tons about that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it was cool that women were like, oh, hey, great work, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the nice thing was that it gives, there's like a lot of starting points for a conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you did great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this or that, or what it's all about.

[SPEAKER_01]: We learned about you throughout the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: We learned a bit to things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was kind of nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a bunch of people came and talked in generally, if you like the whole vibe is very open and friendly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like it's very hard to find that actually.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think [SPEAKER_01]: because also whatever, you know, you share a bunch of vulnerable things about people.

[SPEAKER_01]: It brings down the pressure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like in any other circumstance, there's a lot more, there's a lot more at stake and a lot more pressure and it makes people nervous and then it's very hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree and I wish that we could bring that into regular life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like where it wouldn't need to be a show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: In order to make that happen.

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like the patriarchy's bad for everyone.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like also because like I don't know, there's just so many different concerns and around people just approaching people.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I also do like.

[SPEAKER_03]: on behalf of men.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do think like women want to be approached, but then if a guy approaches them that they don't like, they get kind of rude and standoffish.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that doesn't help us create a culture of people feel free to say hello.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not creating a good feedback.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have the experience that Sasha?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there is this weird dichotomy of like, oh, women should be empowered to a hundred percent, but then there's still a lot of the responsibility on guys, and you know, and how that doesn't really compute, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because like, [SPEAKER_01]: Why can't women approach guys?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why can't women pay for the tab?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why can't we share it?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think especially in American dating culture, there's like a lot of rules around it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You do this on the first day.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how it happens.

[SPEAKER_01]: The guy pays you go to, but you know, like they're all and I feel like in Europe, it's less so really.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think in the end, it's like I'm meeting this person and I don't know what's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we become lovers or we become business partners or friends or we get married or you know, I think they're all those options are possibilities.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in the US, I feel like it's always there's like a script.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's an intention.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very clear.

[SPEAKER_03]: You mean, you know, and if it aren't dating apps big in Europe and has has that contributed to the creation of scripts.

[SPEAKER_03]: because I feel like dating apps are more like we are talking to potentially go on a date.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now we are on a date.

[SPEAKER_03]: We are assessing if the other person is a partner.

[SPEAKER_03]: So haven't the app sort of brought that culture there unfortunately or no?

[UNKNOWN]: I think there [SPEAKER_01]: part of it, I can't speak to dating apps in Europe as much as I've used them, you know, here, I've been here for a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've used them in Europe.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it is more about sort of a cultural understanding.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the movie that just came out materialist, I haven't seen it yet, but I saw this interview, and it's all about this material culture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like generally the US has a very sort of statistically minded culture, you know, if you look at sports, it's all about stats and this and that and, you know, the US is incredible at marketing and it's that's I think that's part of it kind of comes into that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure all these things are happening in Europe too, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can just use it as an excuse as well because it's not like above the surface.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe it maybe is also just an excuse or like my way of rationalizing this and where I don't feel that way when I'm I feel like things are more fluid.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to meet somebody and I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm open to seeing what happens.

[SPEAKER_01]: There doesn't have to be like that kind of script that exists.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I think this material culture is in like [SPEAKER_01]: The apps are also very limiting, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You see a few stats about people and you're putting them in a box and like there's very little room for outside of those boxes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think field actually as an app, more and more people are using it is kind of interesting because [SPEAKER_01]: There's a form like there's a field and you write whatever you and people have essays and people write what in the everybody writes what they want is actually going back to healthy apps like old school match.com or whatever you use.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cupid which had lots of questions and you could write some and you know, yeah, maybe it's a little bit more work, but like you can also really say what you want and what you're looking for and you can put whatever pictures you want and like there's like an openness that is kind of interesting versus [SPEAKER_03]: interesting like a bit of a weird you know what is interesting in the show is that so in the phone search round so audience there's so for listeners there's a yes or no round which we've already discussed there's also a phone search and I bring out this giant wheel we just spin the wheel and that's what we're going to search actually took dating apps off of the wheel we used to be there used to be an opportunity and I mean I could change to whatever I want to show but I took it off because [SPEAKER_03]: I, the audience always wants it.

[SPEAKER_03]: The audience is always screaming like, go under dating apps and I'm like, this is not going to be nearly as fun as you think it is because this is the bullshit we're already dealing with.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the bullshit you've already seen and it's curated.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's already the perfectly curated version, the three words, the five photos, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like, it's actually not gonna be fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: And even going in the chats for them is often not fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the same.

[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's a creative pickup line.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's a bunch of small talk.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's not interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: The audience is gonna be, and I finally decided to put my foot down and say, you're wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know better than you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've been here before.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because the point of the phone search is stuff that is not intended to be publicly facing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, so many guys are like, oh, you should go through my Instagram and I'm like, I'm never.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why would I do that?

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyone can go there Instagram.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and also I don't plug the phones in so you can't see it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's that whole thing too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, because I do want to protect privacy and like actually the show you guys saw.

[SPEAKER_03]: a bunch of sex popped up for another contestant you guys remember this and I leaned him and I said I read this and he shook his head no and I was like and seen you know that a sex didn't like it was a great moment even just being able to end it there but so I don't plug it in because anyway I don't I would do want to protect their privacy a bit so [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was very obvious what was on the screen.

[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't know you didn't know the text.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I've seen all the right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's all this fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it was the word that was searched because the audience, because you, when you search for the word pussy, yes, so it lands on text.

[SPEAKER_02]: You asked the audience.

[SPEAKER_02]: What were the answers?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, literally with on cue, everybody else pussy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean every show people like sex plus thing and I'm like all right y'all think I mean I guess you don't even think you're creative you know what you're doing I get it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it was fun that I could like kind of protect his privacy, but at the same time like we all knew we all know Yeah, I mean that was like when one of the guys pled the fifth on do you have any sex stories and it's like okay, but now we know Yeah, that's the thing is like you might as well just say yes, but it's like we all know [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that point about something that's not meant to be publicly facing and getting a broader view of who somebody is is why I really like meeting people in person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, for that reason because like the people that saw you on stage Sasha were like seeing a bigger picture of you than they would to your point on a curated three to five prompt profile.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, I love what you guys said earlier.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love people like it's so ranchy and and wholesome at the same time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we really are learning about these people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, well, we, we, there's a round right call their mom.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we spoke to Sasha's ex and your ex was amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she pivoted completely from anything we prepped because I do, I do have like pre calls with everyone.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: But she [SPEAKER_03]: The mom calls were so beautiful.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so she just pivoted.

[SPEAKER_03]: She was like, I'm just gonna brag and just talk about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Where she's supposed to raise him?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, she wasn't gonna roast it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, we had that wasn't the plan that we had, but we were gonna talk about like, and I still love this that he makes all of his exes his friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, not within reason.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's very emotionally intelligent to be honest.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think to your, to some of the points we've already talked about, like, if you're gonna date someone, [SPEAKER_03]: I hopefully you're dating them for the right reasons and because there are the qualities and things you really like about them and so I actually is very emotionally intelligent to then say, hey, we went out because I liked ABCD about you.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a romantic match, but we should be friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I brought now putting words in your mouth, but that is what I do for a living.

[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, but yeah, I thought it was really lovely, but I was also going to mention that the mom calls for so beautiful.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we really are getting to know these people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's sometimes it's hard of you've dated someone for a long time and then things go apart that hasn't always worked, but you know, there to me, I'm also like, wow, so many shared experiences with this person.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so sad to just like throw them away and then never have.

[SPEAKER_01]: you know all the things we know about each other can't benefit from them anymore as friends and like it's really cool to have like this very deep experience with someone that you then stay friends with that's pretty cool so yeah I love how it divides the room though it comes up at every show and it divides the fucking room people go crazy but I think that it's because [SPEAKER_03]: We are taught.

[SPEAKER_03]: You should not be friends with your access.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you broke up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Fucking.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the fact that you shouldn't be friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I don't know if maybe society is evolving or we're just getting older.

[SPEAKER_03]: But now I think so I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious when it divides the room.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I wonder if it's all the young people that are angry right now and all the.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thirty enough who are like, no, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's something to be said to for how dating up culture has fed into that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think if you meet somebody in a dating app and most of my exes I met on apps.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you meet someone on the dating app, you weren't friends first.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, immediately at your point Sasha about how cut and dry the US is at least I've only dated here, but like the you only went out because you thought you might want to date that person.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you did and then you stopped.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's no other shared history besides that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like then it feels a little bit more natural to me to be like, okay, well, we're moving on from that now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, especially if you only went on a handful of dates.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but in a situation where you're building community and you are then dating somebody perhaps from this community or you are dating somebody for other like in a way that where you've built something in a little bit of a different way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it can turn out differently from that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's lovely.

[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing that's interesting is like people have a lot of hang ups with dating, but they don't have in friendship.

[SPEAKER_03]: So [SPEAKER_03]: I was dating a guy pretty recently that we pivoted into friendship, and he's great as a friend.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: All the things that I didn't like when we were dating, he's a friend fantastic, which I've told him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have many guy friends who would never want to date.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not because they don't think they're good people, but just because there are things that when I see them dating, I'm like, oh, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're a wonderful friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, we have lots of different friends too, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, like the better, you know, someone, the more you know, like, oh, this is how they do this thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I can rely on them on this, and but not on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're always late, but they're always this, you know, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so why not, you know, when we things are very fluid in reality, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like in everything in life and in the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we as humans, we try to put things into boxes.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just much easier to deal with, but that's not how reality really works.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, and I think to your point, Alia, about how we have different constructs in our mind for dating versus friendships, I say that a lot when people are like, well, this guy, most of my audiences, women who date men.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a heteronormative statement, but when women are like, well, he did this and that, like, okay, how would you feel if a friend did that?

[SPEAKER_02]: You, that probably would be fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or you would give them grace, or you're completely opposite.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes I feel like people put up with stuff for a little bit of a trend treated you know where you'd be out of there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that happens more so once you're in a relationship.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when we're in early dating, I think there's a lot of black and white thinking.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where there wouldn't be as much if you were maybe developing a friendship with someone.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, going back to the apps, that's what's also really problematic because I'm dating someone now and I've told him multiple times.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've we've known each other for years and I told him I was like, [SPEAKER_03]: If we met on an app, you've said so much crazy shit where I would be like, oh my god, who is this man?

[SPEAKER_03]: But I already know him, and I know that he's such a good person, and I already know that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's been really interesting too, because I don't, I'm trying to remember, but I'm like, is this the first and only time that I've dated someone that I like really knew first?

[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, on a dating app, I would not have that.

[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't even match on an app, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that's part of the problem is like there's, I don't know if it's, I don't know what I'm called, unnatural, but it is kind of, you're skipping a bunch of steps when you meet someone.

[SPEAKER_01]: on a dating app like you don't have the time to actually get to know that the nice thing of like in the days before dating apps where you know maybe you need some of the office or in the building or something where you there's like and there was more community maybe you at your church or wherever whatever you're doing regularly you would run into people over and over again [SPEAKER_01]: And you would give them the chance to really show who they are, not just in one instance because, you know, we make mistakes.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not perfect, but like you have the chance to get to know this person over time and you get to know, oh, they have this side and that side.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you can slowly fall in love with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't really happen so much with the dating app because, you know, you're there at the date.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you have these, you know, one hour to prove that you're an amazing person.

[SPEAKER_01]: really tough, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I do think dating can be scary for women and you do have to be careful if a guy says some weird stuff, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you don't have the bandwidth to give everyone this kind of chance, but it's really unfortunate because now I'm thinking back long time ago, but like a serious relationship at many, many years ago where it wasn't from an app, friends introduced us and he also said a bunch of weird shit where I was like the fuck is wrong, but all of our, we'll be at mutual friends who were like, no, he's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_03]: But if we've met on an app, I would have been like, oh, is he crazy?

[SPEAKER_03]: And you don't, it's not wise to necessarily stick around.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my boyfriend who is sitting upstairs currently with our new kitten.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was being a good boyfriend making sure the kitten doesn't freak out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure the listeners know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really screaming when y'all arrived because we had left the room.

[SPEAKER_02]: When we met, he had literally just moved to the city because he was good.

[SPEAKER_03]: You got to get him all the fresh.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, nice work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But he because he was fresh out of a marriage.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, the deforens are rare to add.

[SPEAKER_03]: I will now I'm seeing someone that I used to joke that I'm going to hang outside of the divorce court, you know, just get them over there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think if that had been on an app and somebody had, and I had found that out, let's say we were still messaging.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I had found out that somebody was, he was living on, we have a mutual friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's how we met.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was living on that guy's couch because he was looking for an apartment.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I found out on an app in a message before I didn't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's living on his friends because he had just gotten here after a divorce.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what, we don't need to go out actually.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have a friend who has almost an exact same story where she met a guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: The night he moved into his own place post divorce and all he had was an air mattress.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which is like so many red flakes, but they're amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Couple they're married to the kid now, you know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, you know, there's a lot of pressure too.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, at the date, you have to convince us of the person you're awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're trying to be funny and charming and maybe say something interesting and oops.

[SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly you see something crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have another chance.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, I should really say on behalf of the men that I say all kinds of crazy shit all the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a pride scared of so many people.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because as I had a sexual woman, I am talking about all my male experiences, but I'm sure I've said fucking bonkers shit on every day.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm actually curious, you know, as we were talking earlier, I was like, how much does the role of the culture really play into all this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's the dating apps and there's Instagram, there's all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also thought of Jerry Springer.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was the show, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and like there's all this drama around like, and is that, does that, how does that influence us in our behavior towards each other, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think one of the things that influences what I see and talking to women who date men mostly, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: is actually more the influence of like romcoms and this sensationalized idea of what romording and romance looks like.

[SPEAKER_03]: But Sasha, I think that's such an interesting point where on some maybe even subconscious level, we're trained that dating should be drama.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Jerry Springer, well, the idea there is drama versus emotional intelligence.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not facilitated.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, we get through it.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, we're trying to have a nuanced conversation where we're going to trouble.

[SPEAKER_03]: I hate my ex, but you know, so yeah, it's probably not good for the culture.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, probably not, but yeah, I think there is and especially so you've got that and then you've got this sensationalized view of love and you've got these moments in movies where you just lock eyes and all of a sudden you both know you're in love.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that is really influencing has not is has really influenced people to think that like that's how it's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: But to your point about the proximity to somebody and the way that that builds care for them as you get to know them over time, I think is really underrated.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just, you know, I mean, we're also living in a fast-paced world.

[SPEAKER_01]: All these things are not helping us, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But like being patient, giving people time and like the opportunity to redeem themselves in some way is also not really part of the culture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think the problem is that dating apps create a numbers game worth like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I got it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can't give all that time to all these people.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think that that's what's so interesting about dating versus friendship or one of the things is that in a monogamous context, obviously there's Polly, but you can date one person, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're a monogamous.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can date one person and if you decide not to date that person then maybe you can date another person but you can have an unlimited number of friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think there's so much more movement available in friendship and so much more grace you're able to give friend because you can have as many friends as you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously you have a still limited amount of time and attention that you can pay to people but the construct isn't the same.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's a whole other can of worms around.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, actually, something I feel that's so great about getting older is that you actually don't have to be friends with anyone who's not an excellent friend and I feel like I have so many excellent friends now and I've been joking that I need to cut some out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, not of my excellent ones, but you're like, no, if you're listening, you're fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but interesting because there's no script at all around friendship.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I've also had a really interesting talks with that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think, okay, have you experienced this because the theory is that all women have experienced a friend breakup?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was actually really going to say, not only women.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, but that like all women have, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: But do you men break up with friends in the same way that women do?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do women break up with each other?

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that there are these breakers and my friend break up was more devastating than any male breakup ever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Same.

[SPEAKER_03]: But there's no.

[SPEAKER_03]: My friend, I have a friend who had a friend break up that was devastating to her and she was like, when you break up with a guy, people like come over and they bring ice cream, she's like, you break up with the girl, nobody fucking like.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's no formula for any of it, and it's actually so devastating.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's also hard when you're trying to meet friends because of the construct of magamistating.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like people understand that you can only date one person.

[SPEAKER_02]: But because you can have more than one friend, it's like if I don't want to be your friend, that actually says more than if I can do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You like really suck.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actively don't want you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm allowed to have so many friends and I don't know if there's no room.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even want to talk to you ever again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even though I could talk to everyone.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and like the stakes are way lower right and you're like what's the big deal but then that person doesn't want to have you that's it is quite intense yeah it is true it's interesting that there is no ascript or culture or anything around that when you know someone just disappears nobody comes over the ice cream you know well so Sasha we were giggling earlier about the word curious and the reason is because you [SPEAKER_02]: Started, I think, a community called curious, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I learned to visit the show because we learned so much about people.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm curious on that note about building friendships and thus I would assume also people are building relationships through this community in some capacity like romantic relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: What is your thoughts on kind of that community aspect of friendship and then sort of how that translates or doesn't in the dating?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I used to host these singles events maybe five or six years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: and what kind of that's like free form or yeah so my my was like you know they're all these singles events that are like speed dating and yeah there's so much structure around them it's really awkward and I was like you need to be like a house party just come on a house party of singles and it's at someone was the host always that was kind of the idea so it was literally a house party yeah it was at someone's house and I was trying to have ten men and ten women so it's even [SPEAKER_01]: to get into that in a second.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was going to say how's that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody takes off their shoes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it gives like a groundedness.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was always at someone else's house.

[SPEAKER_01]: So selfishly, I was like, it's cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get to see where all these people live and how they live in New York, though, is interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I called it Saturday singles because it was on Saturday.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I wouldn't call it, I think, giving, putting the name singles in there was like challenge number one because it puts [SPEAKER_01]: Especially the guys, so the idea I want to go to a singles event.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I had no problem getting women to come.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were like sign up.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, can I bring three friends?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, no, no, no, you may not because the races we often sometimes they just did it anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was way more women.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then guys, I had to constantly run after me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, can you come?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you come?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you bring a friend?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like what is going on there?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like all these women are there They're like willing to talk and I realized I think there was like a couple of things I think guys are just generally like less social in that way And I think so while there's all these thing pieces about the male loneliness epidemic and I'm like bro get get out there There's so many events the cages open but they just open [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the the thing is men just don't want to do those things because I think there is like a competitiveness that comes into fact, there's like other guys and they're like, I don't want to be there and like there's what the woman I like and there's another guy and then I have to compete and it's like it's the the mindset is kind of the [SPEAKER_01]: wrong because it's like, no, we're all friends and we're like, you know, she likes a guy that's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not meant to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you might make another guy friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, think guys didn't even think we're as women.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, oh, just maybe I'll make a female friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was at an event talking to men about this issue because one of the reasons that I have never even tried to run a singles event and never say never, but probably never well is literally because of this because every single person I know who tries to run events is like, it's like pulling teeth to get men there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was at, you know, Cassidy Davis, who runs chaotic singles.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was at one of her events and I was talking to guys about like, next time, bring friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was the ratio that when I went, it was pretty even.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the one that I went to was pretty good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the one that went to this other one wasn't as much.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was, I was talking to the man and I was like, next time you should bring friends and several of them unrelated to each other.

[SPEAKER_02]: Go, why would I do that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why would I want there to be more men here right now?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, because they love that there's the, the men do show up love that is not women do show up love that like I was at another event where there were literally lines.

[SPEAKER_02]: There were lines to speak to the men.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my god.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where is this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but, you know, I think the other thing is also this, I think the mindset is that, you know, it's a ero sum game and they don't want to have more competition.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's part of the problem.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing is like it requires a certain amount of vulnerability to be like, I'm going to this thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am single.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am looking.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's clear to the world that I'm at this event.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not in private on my dating app on my phone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have nothing going on, you know, or as I think guys are always like, no, no, I've like lots of girls in this that and like nobody wants to like admit that they're.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's an insult to their masculinity.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to certain degree, I think there is an insecurity around that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it is hard to go there and have be feel vulnerable in that way, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because it feels a bit needy and that's definitely challenging, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I started here just over a year ago and I was originally, I was thinking about having a starting a social club.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I felt like in social club, you generally think, oh, it's very exclusive.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's leadist.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's this that and I was like, no, I want to have like the social club for the people that's much more inclusive and [SPEAKER_02]: you know, there has to be some kind of boundary in a community otherwise it's not the one that's like based in the huge mansion and you can only get in if you know you're you're like a force and blah blah blah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: No hereditary, financial, sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of stuff, but I mean, I mentioned would be cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but he has one.

[SPEAKER_01]: If anybody out there listening if you want to mention and you know, I felt like where are because we are losing all these places, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: There is a great movie called Join or Die about communities.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm playing on the name who the author who wrote this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's called Bowling Alone and he's it's like a five hundred page dome where he kind of talks about how the spaces that have created community in the past like [SPEAKER_01]: Bowling clubs and churches where he actually goes through all the data and like because there came up with a hero to paper and people were like, no, your numbers are not correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is nonsense and he was like, I'm going to prove it to you and he wrote this five hundred page book and it's it's pretty interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: The movies also really good of your interested in community recommend watching it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so all these places are gone away where we actually congregated meet.

[SPEAKER_01]: in sort of very low key settings, that was places don't really exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, we had to, how do you feel?

[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of people are doing this, but I was like, I want to create something up my own too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I started, and I was like, what's the easiest way?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll have a WhatsApp group, and then I was like, I was like, it'd be great if I could do this for a living.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that would mean I have to charge people with an awesome New York City.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I was like, suddenly the amount that people would have to pay is pretty high.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, people would only [SPEAKER_01]: pay that much if there is a space because the challenge with a lot of the community things is that communities very intangible and it is very hard to ask people for something tangible and return like money for something that is very hard to value in something right and so I was like okay I have to have a [SPEAKER_01]: space, then, and I was like, I don't want to get into this space business in New York because then it's something totally different.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just kept the, at that point, there was like, a hundred and fifty people or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm just going to keep the WhatsApp group around.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was also hosting a bunch of my own events.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't know anything about bonsatries.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have a workshop.

[SPEAKER_01]: I found this guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I charged people fifty bucks to pay for things.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was cool, but then I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't want to be an event company.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many events in New York and it's kind of evolved into these are all friends and friends of friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of an requirement that somebody knows you and invites you and you have to introduce yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's really important.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's also a little bit of a barrier because it requires some work.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the whole point [SPEAKER_01]: And this is that people share and they have to put something in because if nobody, if everybody is just lurking, it's not going to be very interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that's what I was thinking when you were saying that asking somebody for something tangible in exchange for something intangible is hard, especially hard if that intangible thing doesn't exist yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're trying to build community, you can't build community without community, it feels.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then people are like, well, there is no community yet, and you're like, right, because you've got to come.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, we're trying to build it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to come.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what the events that you carry, give it, at least an element of self selection in the sense that like, [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to really throw out some stereotypes here, right, but like some finance bros who all they want to do is drink.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're not joining this group because this group is bonsai and like, you know what I mean, going to a comedy dating, she's like doing kind of the weirder stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's definitely more on sort of intellectual sounds very high brought, but it's like [SPEAKER_01]: It's inspirational, philosophical, art related, learning, growing, that kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's also part of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is called Curious.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it is short.

[SPEAKER_01]: People who are curious about lots of different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's obviously very selfish and self-serving because I was like, oh, I want to learn about things and people go to so many things and be great if they share that because then I know what's up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the recommendations that people, and there are kind of recommendations or things that people find, they're like, hey, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there is a reading of the great Gatsby.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's nine hours long, and it's three hundred dollars who wants to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: I went.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am so happy I went.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, they have breaks.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a dinner break.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was just a show.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because if someone told me, because like, people will come to me now and say, hey, I have this idea.

[SPEAKER_03]: Can I talk to you about like getting it off the ground?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if someone came to me and they were like, we're going to regret it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be nine hours.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like you're out of your fucking mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's doing that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are people.

[SPEAKER_02]: What I really love about this idea of this, what's that group that you have is that this is something that people could do.

[SPEAKER_02]: like on their own.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're listening out there and you're like, wow, I would love to build this community.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think events to your point are really hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: People try to do bring a friend events and they're really hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: But could we do bring a friend groups like this?

[SPEAKER_02]: We're then eventually you kind of reach a critical mass like it sounds like you have.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is so nice to go and do things with the group of people.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've hosted a bunch of movie screens.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's nice to have a bunch.

[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite was doing shorts.

[SPEAKER_01]: We watched five different shorts.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were all different lengths.

[SPEAKER_01]: We stopped after each one and had a little conversation about what we just saw.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so nice to have this conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: We went to pioneer works the other week.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they have this great series called the Scientific Controversies.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to recommend also it's fascinating always blows my mind, but it's nice to have a group there and then we can be like, oh, what did you think?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is this with that?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it enriches the experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think to the point you made earlier, Ali about like being out there, living your life, there are probably people out there listening to the things that you're talking about going to being like, well, I have no interest in going to do those things.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to build a community that's doing the things that you like to do or join a community or whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the brilliant part.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that not everybody's going to want to do the things you're going to want to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's the point.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: That it becomes self-selective.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Or it's like what types of people are in which clubs.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I feel like we could just chat about community and I are all dating forever, but eventually we do have to wrap it before we do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Two things.

[SPEAKER_02]: One, Ally, you have a lot of shows coming up for love isn't blind.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want everyone to hear about them because I just think it was so brilliant.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what do you have coming up?

[SPEAKER_02]: What are your next shows?

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_03]: So no matter when you're listening to this, go to love isn'tblind.com and you click tickets.

[SPEAKER_03]: You'll see all my upcoming dates.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in a new city pretty much every weekend.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so DC is next on July tenth, and then I'm back in L.A.

[SPEAKER_03]: July, eight teeth.

[SPEAKER_03]: San Diego July, twenty fifth, then I go back to San Francisco, then Portland.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, then I am off for the rest of August, and then I'm booked out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm starting to book into twenty twenty six, actually.

[SPEAKER_03]: So pretty much every weekend.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll be somewhere else.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you're coming back to New York in November, you said, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: November, twenty first, then early bird tickets sold out immediately, which was really exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I went into twenty four hours.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was really excited about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And um, but I did want to let everyone know [SPEAKER_03]: If you're remotely intrigued, apply to be a contestant, and applying does not mean you're locked in by any stretch of the imagination.

[SPEAKER_03]: So apply to be a contestant.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can also nominate your single friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a nomination form as well, and I'm always looking for good people.

[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people are really skeptical, and I totally get it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm [SPEAKER_02]: to plug your Instagram handle or whatever contact information you are comfortable with for if any listeners in New York are listening and would love to talk to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I'm curious.

[SPEAKER_01]: I always love meeting people.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can find me on Instagram under Super Mom Barts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's super.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Mom Barts is MOM B-A-R-T-Z.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's my last name.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long story.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's silly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will also put it in the show notes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also going to do Instagram stories that I will tag with this and with the other guys from the show who are comfortable with it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I am Ali underscore Goldie.

[SPEAKER_03]: A-L-L-I underscore G-O-L-T-I.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I've, it's all clips from the show at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Go to the show, it's super funny, and get on stage.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's worth the experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even just for the blindfolded part, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really, and I also think a great date idea, because I think that one of the things that I love about comedy shows in general for a date is that you get to know someone's sense of humor, you're like, are they laughing at this thing or like, you know, are we laughing together?

[SPEAKER_02]: You get to have inside jokes later to talk about if you go to dinner after or whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think specifically your show can also bring up stuff that you want to talk about regarding dating and relationships.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: A friend of mine actually brought a date there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Incredible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I hope so.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because especially in the yes or no round, there's so, and this happens a bit in New York actually is like, I'll ask a yes or no question, the men answer.

[SPEAKER_03]: But then you see everyone turning to their friends and their dates to what would you, what, you know, they want to know what everyone else thinks about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's actually something I want to do down the line is I've been saving.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I ask questions and then audience members ask [SPEAKER_03]: can leave questions in a hat and I have been saving the best audience questions from every show and I want to make a card deck that's like these are your questions and you can buy it after the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you both for joining this week for having us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: And to our listeners, I'll talk to you next week.