[Mark]: Design is everywhere, but do we podcasters get it wrong?

And when we do get it wrong, [Mark]: what is the real life impact on the success of our show?

That is what I'm gonna [Mark]: talk about today here on the podcast Accelerate because it's a very, very important [Mark]: subject.

And you might be fooled into believing that we're just gonna talk about [Mark]: graphic design.

That is completely wrong.

We are not, because design is so much more.

[Mark]: This is of course the podcast accelerator.

I'm your host, Mark Asquith.

And I just want [Mark]: to thank, before we go any further, the wonderful Rich Graham, who recently sent [Mark]: me, he sent me a little bit of beer money to say thank you for the podcast.

So [Mark]: Rich, I appreciate you, my friend.

Thank you so much for doing that.

And if you want [Mark]: to be like Rich, and if you want to say, Marco, listen, I appreciate the podcast, [Mark]: go and have a little meretti on me.

You can do so at mark.live slash support.

I [Mark]: also want to thank.

A couple of my most recent guests, Mike Willa and the wonderful [Mark]: Dave Jackson.

Two amazing previous episodes that we've just done very, very recently.

And [Mark]: we've just had fantastic feedback.

In fact, the last three episodes.

I feel like [Mark]: people have got a heck of a lot from it was revenue lessons from big podcasts, which [Mark]: I think is, again, a very important subject for the independent podcaster.

And [Mark]: we're sort of going to build on that today.

We're going to build on that today because [Mark]: design is tied to that.

And also.

The lessons that we learned from Mike Waller and [Mark]: Dave Jackson in the previous two episodes have really been well received.

So thank you [Mark]: to everyone for the kind words on those episodes.

I like mixing it up a little bit [Mark]: with this podcast.

I'm enjoying the fact that I'm doing interviews and doing some [Mark]: of my own content and so on.

So if you're enjoying the format, let me know on Twitter [Mark]: at Mr.

Asquith.

And I say, if you want to be like rich and chukkas a little bit of [Mark]: beer money, you can do so at mark.live slash support.

Design.

is everywhere.

Design [Mark]: is vital and you interact with design every single time you look at something, you [Mark]: touch something, you move something, you enjoy something, you don't enjoy something, [Mark]: you have a good experience, you have a bad experience.

Everything in our lives in [Mark]: 2023 and beyond is affected by design.

Good design, bad design, indifferent design, [Mark]: design that you don't notice because it's either very good or very bad and very [Mark]: often you actually only do only notice.

bad design and that's the sort of irony of [Mark]: designers that great design just like simplicity goes unnoticed because you expect [Mark]: good things we are well designed as human beings you know we don't we don't notice [Mark]: that we're so well designed but we are and that's fine you know we have expectations [Mark]: of what we are as beings we've got the two arms we've got the two legs we've got the [Mark]: head we walk in a certain way and you know we don't notice unless something is different [Mark]: okay and that's the point that I want to get to today is that design is everywhere.

[Mark]: All right.

And there's a few misconceptions I want to just bash.

There's some, I guess, [Mark]: some thoughts that I want to give you about what you should be focusing on when it [Mark]: comes to design.

Now, I'm not going to tell you how to build cover art.

I'm not [Mark]: going to tell you how to design things.

This is a mindset that I want to teach you [Mark]: and talk to you about because it's something that I've always had, I've always had a design [Mark]: oriented mindset, even though I didn't realize I had for a long, long time until I [Mark]: really got into business.

And even now, I know I drive some of our graphic designers [Mark]: and our user interface designers crazy because I'm a bit of a stickler.

I'm a bit [Mark]: of a stickler for good design.

You know, I don't, bad design stands out.

I'd rather [Mark]: you didn't notice that Captivate was well designed, but you never had any problems.

[Mark]: You didn't have any friction.

You just somehow it felt easy and you didn't quite know [Mark]: why.

Like that's the ultimate.

Okay.

That's design.

doing its job.

So let's think [Mark]: about design for podcasting.

Design for podcasting generally takes or is generally [Mark]: considered to just be graphic design.

All right.

And that's the first mistake that [Mark]: people make.

So design is very often commoditized.

Graphic design in particular, [Mark]: we've got amazing tools like Canva that you can knock up some cover art.

Really nicely [Mark]: done cover art within Canva within a few minutes.

You can do that.

I did that only [Mark]: this week.

for a new podcast that I'm putting together with some friends.

And I did [Mark]: it.

It's good.

Is it professional enough?

Yes.

Does it tick the boxes and will it stand [Mark]: out in the directories?

Yes.

Did it cost much?

No, it didn't.

And this is, I think, [Mark]: the first mistake that people make when it comes to design and then, you know, the [Mark]: sub niche of graphic design.

Just because Canva is free doesn't mean that design is cheap.

[Mark]: OK, let me say that again.

Just because things like Canva are free, doesn't mean that [Mark]: design is cheap.

Because all of these templates that are within Canva that allow [Mark]: people that aren't designers, you know, you, me, and people that aren't designers, [Mark]: tools like that allow people to democratize design and to access good design and to just [Mark]: mildly customize it to look good, guess what?

They are powered by a very expensive [Mark]: designers.

So design is a skill, it's a talent, it's a craft, it's something that [Mark]: you own.

and that you should value.

It's not cheap, all right?

A lot of people [Mark]: say, why does it cost so much to design a logo or design a website?

Because you can't [Mark]: do it.

And if you think you can, you're probably wrong, all right?

The point is, right, [Mark]: I can move bricks around and I can mix mortar up and I can dig.

And they're all the [Mark]: constituent pieces of building a house.

Yeah, and I can buy timber.

I can buy glass [Mark]: and glazing, I can buy window frames.

But do you think the house that I build myself [Mark]: using my own hands that aren't skilled in that way is gonna be livable, is gonna be [Mark]: good enough?

Of course it's not because everything's a skill and we cheapen design, [Mark]: we commoditize design and we shouldn't do, all right?

So just because design is accessible [Mark]: using things like candle, which you should be using.

I did mine on Cambly yesterday, [Mark]: the new cover art.

My podcast accelerator.

Cover art is done on Canva.

Now granted, it's [Mark]: done using brand guidelines, which I'm not going to talk about today because it's [Mark]: very different.

It's done using brand guidelines so that I almost can't get it wrong.

[Mark]: And it's got good photography, so I almost can't get it wrong.

But it's still physically [Mark]: done on Canva.

But as I said, really want to hit this home.

Design is not cheap [Mark]: and you shouldn't think about it as being cheap because the Canva design platform, [Mark]: to use that as an example again, is powered by world class designers designing [Mark]: those templates.

Like they don't come from nowhere.

They're not magic.

All right.

[Mark]: So that's the first thing I want you to understand.

Design is not cheap, but we [Mark]: sadly commoditize it.

You see all the time in the Facebook groups in podcasting, [Mark]: why does it cost this much to get a cover art?

Well, you either have bad cover [Mark]: art, you either use a template and understand it's probably gonna be from a template and [Mark]: look templated, or you get someone to do it.

And if you get someone to do it, they [Mark]: deserve pain.

So don't be an asshole.

when it comes to paying people or something [Mark]: like that.

I would hate for someone to, why do I have to pay a subscription fee [Mark]: to get your premium content?

You know, you would think, well, of course you bloody [Mark]: do, because this is what I do, look at all the work I put in.

So don't be a dick [Mark]: when it comes to design, all right?

Don't cheapen design just because you think [Mark]: it's easy or think it's cheap or well, it's easy.

Look at that, that can't have taken [Mark]: long.

It's only a few lines on the screen.

Well, you go and do them then.

And that's the [Mark]: point, you can't do it that well.

So.

Graphic design is what we normally think of [Mark]: as design when it comes to podcasting.

But what I want you to really understand is [Mark]: that design touches everything.

All right.

I walked through a door.

This is an [Mark]: analogy from a good friend of mine, Kyle Wilkinson, who runs one of the best design [Mark]: agencies in the UK and beyond.

He has done all my branding.

He has done, I've worked [Mark]: with him for years.

He's done an agency with him.

He's one of the finest in the business.

[Mark]: He genuinely is one of the best designers, not only in England, but I believe in the world [Mark]: is fantastic at what he does.

All right.

And he always talks to me about this idea that [Mark]: design is everything.

Okay.

And you walk through a door and guess what?

That handle [Mark]: somewhere, somehow, not only the concept of a handle working, but that physical handle [Mark]: that you've got, the aesthetics of it, they've all been, all that's been designed.

[Mark]: It's been designed.

The hinges have been designed.

The door has been designed.

[Mark]: The mechanism, do we walk in, do we walk out?

Do we open inward?

Do we open outward?

[Mark]: Does it slide?

Is it a bifold?

All of that has been designed for different use cases [Mark]: so that we don't notice it.

just a door, but it works.

And it goes the same for podcasting, [Mark]: all right.

Bad design stands out, okay.

Design in your podcast should be considered [Mark]: across the board.

Yes, graphic design is very important, but you might have heard [Mark]: the phrase sound design.

I design my sound.

I design, I've designed my audio.

I've [Mark]: designed not for this show, but some of the sound effects that we use in other shows.

[Mark]: I've designed.

the experience and if you take that upper level, so go to shows like [Mark]: what Wondry does with the business walls and even things like the news agents, the new [Mark]: show which is by us here at Global, UK's biggest podcast in the news criteria and [Mark]: it's the sound design is very well done.

So we cut clips into it, we don't cut clips [Mark]: into it.

The design has been considered and we don't notice it as listeners.

We just [Mark]: think, well, of course that's there.

Of course that clip is there because they contextualize [Mark]: that clip.

And then they talk.

about that clip and so obviously they were going [Mark]: to play the clip.

But we, so we don't think about it, but someone has, someone's [Mark]: considered that.

All right.

We also need to think about user experience design.

[Mark]: Okay.

So how do I interact as a new listener with your podcast?

Okay.

Have you [Mark]: got a good trail?

That's very obvious.

Are you naming your titles?

Are you typing [Mark]: your title, writing your titles in a good way?

There was a fantastic podcast that [Mark]: I really love.

The golf podcast that I tweeted about this a few months ago.

And [Mark]: their titles were shocking.

Like it said, such and such podcast with such and such [Mark]: host, episode such and such.

And then the guest and the subject was like at the end [Mark]: of the episode title.

So on Apple podcasts, on Spotify, in my car and whatever, I had no [Mark]: idea what that episode was about.

And it was a big podcast.

So I tweeted them, I [Mark]: said, look, listen, Timmy, here's a screenshot.

I'm struggling like heck with this.

[Mark]: I wanna listen to your back catalog, but I don't know if I'm listening to Butch [Mark]: Harmon or Bubba Watson or Nelly Corder.

I've got no idea.

can please name them like [Mark]: this.

And guess what they did, their producers went through and they changed all [Mark]: the back catalog.

That's we're in the back and said, thank you, it's much, much better.

[Mark]: So that's an experience design, even to do with things like your membership, so [Mark]: you know your, we talked about a couple of episodes ago, how to design a paid subscription [Mark]: and to sell things through your podcast, whether it's fixed price sponsorships, whether [Mark]: it's getting tips like I got from Rich and Drew.

or whether it is selling your memberships, [Mark]: your bonus content, your exclusive content, your windowed content, whatever that might [Mark]: be.

That experience has to be designed.

And when we designed that system, that platform [Mark]: into Captivate, we did a lot of that thinking for you.

But how do you word the benefits [Mark]: in your membership?

How do you deliver those?

A great example of this is when we do [Mark]: things like with Spark of Rebellion, which is that Star Wars show.

When people sign [Mark]: up to our membership for whatever it is, a few bucks a month, we send them out with [Mark]: sticker, a Sparkle Rebellion sticker.

And we could just do that, but instead we write [Mark]: a handwritten note saying, thank you.

And it's part of the experience which has been [Mark]: designed.

Okay.

So design touches everything in your podcast.

Yes, the graphics, yes, your [Mark]: website, but it's also the experience.

You need to design the experience that you [Mark]: give to people.

You need to design the experience.

that goes alongside your membership [Mark]: options and your tipping options.

You need to design the experience for your guests.

[Mark]: What does that look like?

Do you send production notes like we do?

I always send [Mark]: production notes out.

I plan them episodes using Captivate and I send production notes [Mark]: by just exporting the PDF from Captivate which is what it's intended to do.

Do you do [Mark]: that?

Is that guest experience well designed?

Will they remember that?

Will it [Mark]: stick out?

Will they understand that is a good experience?

Because they probably [Mark]: won't.

But they'll definitely know if they have a bad experience.

If the guest turns [Mark]: up and they say, well, what are we talking about?

I don't know, what do you think?

We [Mark]: got any talking points?

Well, that's sort of your job as the host.

Oh, sorry, I [Mark]: forgot to tell you, I've got to finish after 15 minutes because I've got such and [Mark]: such.

No, no, no.

Set all the expectations up front, design that experience, all right?

[Mark]: So that is super important.

Design everything.

within your podcast from your graphics to your [Mark]: sound design to your guest experience to your user experience, your listener experience, [Mark]: everything.

The way that you write your show notes has to be well designed.

Everything, [Mark]: design touches everything.

What can you do today?

Can you do anything with this?

[Mark]: Can you implement better design without spending any money?

Well, yes, you can.

Now, [Mark]: like I said, we don't want to commoditize design.

Just think this through before you [Mark]: sort of run off and do anything.

I want you to just stop now and think about what I'm [Mark]: about to say.

Just because we can get things done cheaply doesn't mean that it's [Mark]: commoditized.

So the graphic design, like I said at the beginning, just because [Mark]: you use Canva doesn't mean that design is cheap.

That's just a tool that gives you [Mark]: templates from designers who are highly talented and who have been paid a lot of money [Mark]: to do those designs.

The money still changed hands, it wasn't you that was doing [Mark]: the paying.

But remember cheap does not equal commoditized.

Commoditized does not [Mark]: equal cheap.

And when I say commoditized, what I mean is people take it for granted.

[Mark]: So what I don't want you to think when I say this next thing is that...

It's easy [Mark]: or you should take it for granted.

All I'm about to say is that you don't have to [Mark]: spend a pile of money doing it.

All right, so let's forget graphic design.

Let's [Mark]: think about other things.

Guest design, the experience.

Do you have to spend any money [Mark]: on that?

No.

But you've got to spend time thinking about it.

OK, just sit down, [Mark]: grab a cup of tea, write down a process, a flow, design the experience for your guests.

[Mark]: What is the pre-booking experience?

What is The post-booking experience, what's [Mark]: the interview experience, what's the post-interview experience, all right?

Design [Mark]: that out and then you've got it as a standard operating procedure.

What is your [Mark]: episode design process?

How do you do that?

What's your intro, what's your outro?

[Mark]: What is the middle bit?

What is your flow per episode?

Because it's not good enough [Mark]: to wing it anymore.

There's too many podcasts now for you to wing it.

Other people [Mark]: will do your thing better if you don't do it well, okay?

So...

All of this just takes [Mark]: thinking time, it just takes a mindset, it just takes prioritizing focus.

It doesn't [Mark]: take money, but that's not to say that it should be taken for granted, all right?

[Mark]: Just because you don't pay for something doesn't mean that it is not valuable, all right?

[Mark]: That's the misnomer of free when people give...

That's why we don't have a freemium [Mark]: product at Captivate, because people take free for granted.

They do.

They've got [Mark]: no skin in the game, so why would they care?

They're not going to bother.

It's not [Mark]: a business model that is for us.

So think that through, all right?

How can you [Mark]: design every part of your podcast from all of the experience to the visuals, to the [Mark]: audio?

Where do you need to put a bit of money?

Well, maybe you need to put a bit [Mark]: of money into graphic design or to graphic design software like Canva.

Do you need to [Mark]: spend money on your episode design or your sound design flow?

Probably not really.

[Mark]: To your guest experience design, no.

But I want you to think through the fact that [Mark]: design touches everything.

because not enough people think like that.

And if you can [Mark]: do that, you'll stand out.

The biggest shows, if you go and look at the top charts, [Mark]: they're well-designed in every single aspect.

They're calls to action, but well-designed.

[Mark]: Their graphics are well-designed.

Their listener flow, so the format of the episode [Mark]: and the way that they guide people through the episode is well-designed.

The news agents, [Mark]: go and listen to it.

It's a great example.

Business wars.

great example, all right?

You [Mark]: can stand out from your crowd, all right?

We talk about niching down and focusing on [Mark]: just your core audience, but the sad fact is there are enough podcasts now where [Mark]: it doesn't matter really what competition, sorry, what niche you're in.

You will have [Mark]: competition.

It doesn't matter what niche you are in.

There are enough podcasts [Mark]: in the world that you will have competition now.

You can stand out by designing every facet [Mark]: of your podcast.

So take some time to do it.

It matters, it will help, and it will [Mark]: set you up for success because once you've done it, you really don't that often [Mark]: need to redo it.

So spend a bit of time up front doing it today.

It will help you to [Mark]: stand out.

But let me know how you get along at Mr.

Asquith on Twitter or X, whatever [Mark]: we're calling it these days.

Let me know how you get along.

And as I say, if you [Mark]: love the show, if it helps you, feel free, a little bit of beer.

over at mark.live [Mark]: slash support.

And until the next time, much love, keep doing what you do and just [Mark]: keep publishing, keep providing for your audience because they enjoy it and they [Mark]: need it, all right?

So until the next time, take it easy.

Adios for now.