Welcome to Pot of Thunder, the recognized symbol of excellence and rock and roll podcasting, brought to you by Patreon dot com slash pot of Thunder.

There's a tear for everybody, and we're adding more, adding more benefits to you, the patron of the show.

That clip there, pot up Thunder introduced by Michael Caviccini.

If you want us to remove Michael's voice and put yours in there, Patreon dot com slash pot of Thunder.

He doesn't go Michael.

He doesn't own the show anymore.

He can be bumped off at any moment.

Thank you to Michael for his contributions to the show.

Thank you to everyone who is a patron already.

Thank you, even if you're not in your listening, We're glad to have you here.

It's your buddy, Andy, America's little brother.

But you know me as the Conga King of Northwest Indiana.

Liz get y'all.

Again.

As I said, it's your buddy, Andy, America's little brother, as always, joined by this guy over here.

I don't know what he's up to, but he's getting up.

He's gonna do something.

Let's find out together.

Is he ready?

He's he's doing something.

Ladies and gentlemen, Nick.

Nick Pollock has entered the program.

Nick, what are you doing today?

I don't know.

I think that was from a Buster Rhymes video or something.

Okay, was that improvised on this?

Did you plan that one today?

Barely?

Did you watch a music video and preparations?

No?

What am I gonna do?

I guess that well you did it.

Welcome to the show, Nick, Thank you.

First episode of November.

We're out of the Ooctober month.

Ready to get back back to the standard procedure here and we'll see what happens.

But to your immediate left, you want him, We got him.

To have it every day, have it, get out and away.

Yeah, fuck you put your hands together for the breakout star of the podcas cast medium Chris l in the house.

It's me Chris still here.

Yes, we're glad to have you here.

If not, we'd be broadcasting from your basement with you in the driveway.

I don't know if it would work out that way.

Well, we're glad we're here with you in your home.

Another episode of Pot of Thunder.

We've got a guest today we do joining us for the very first time, Ladies, and gentlemen.

Tim Durling, oh dly, please do leave you.

We gad to have you on our show.

Believe us, friend.

We tell you, do care.

We'll never tell you.

Oh nickis cooking.

Yeah that's next.

Wowful, Wow, that was inspired.

I like that.

We're glad to have you, Timy.

That welcome, nice intro song.

You can take that with you, play it when you enter a room in your personal life, whatever you want to do.

But hey, it's got potential converted onto various mediums.

Yeah, we were talking a little bit before the show.

Tim here.

He's got a big collection of music media that we can see here as we're talking to him.

Every format, eight track, vinyl singles, cuss singles, cassettes, everything.

Tim's a big collector.

But Tim, here's what I know about you.

You got five books out, all in the rock and roll vein which I think most of our listeners that's why they're here.

And I know that at least one of them.

I was talking to my friend today and he said that he has your Sammy Hagar book, So very cool, awesome.

Can you tell us quickly about a couple of the books you've written.

Yeah, I've actually got six now I've just came up with one in the last week, so it's fairly fairly used.

So my first book was Unspooled, An Adventure in eight Tracks, which mainly talks about Columbia House and the like mail order places that made eight tracks available all the way through nineteen eighty eight.

Yeah, which a lot of most people don't realize and why would anyone care this guy?

So that was my first book.

After that, they've all been on one band or one artist.

So my second book was down for the count the Y and T album review.

My favorite band should have been huge, so I did a book aboth them.

After that, I did Let It Be Your Guide the Kansas album review, then read on Black Listener's Guide to Sammy Hagart concentrates on the solo career mainly, and earlier this year, I put out this thing right here, sing Me Away, the Night Ranger album review, and actually, just like just over a week ago this went live on Amazon.

The Sound that Haunts You a beginner's companion of Fleetwood Mac, so it keeps me out of trouble.

So yeah, that's that's what That's what I've been up to.

Well, I'm busy guy, how long does it take you to get one of those together?

I haven't seen one, so I'm not even sure what it entails.

So well, I'm very fortunate that a good friend of mine who's a designer by trades name is Matt Phillips.

He puts the books to essentially puts the books together for me, lays them out, and you know, putting them all through Amazon is actually pretty easy.

Uh.

And we've kind of gotten it down to a system now.

So you know, I've been averaging two a year and that's right by the time it gets you know, you want to promote the current one, but then you want to I'm always working on another one, like I've got two more on the works now.

But then I answer your question, Yeah, it takes a few months.

A few months.

Yeah, it takes a little bit longer for the books that are panel books, like panel discussion books like Yant Kansas and The Night Ranger one where I have other people submitting answers.

It's smitting content to me.

The Sammy Hagar and the Fleetwood Mac when I just put out of all me and those don't take as long as far as that part of it goes.

What takes a long time.

Regardless is the proofreading.

And I've got another friend Andy that does the proof reading because I hate it.

I hate proof reading it and I don't I don't think you can proof read.

Your own No.

No, I was just you.

You know what you mean for it to say, So that's what you see.

You don't see mistakes right in front of you.

You don't see things that just don't make any sense, because that's you know.

I.

It might be people that can do it, but I can't.

I don't have the wherewithal.

I totally agree with you.

It's just it's even if you think you can do it, you shouldn't do it because you're gonna miss stuff.

And you're gonna you're gonna put does when you're meant to say, doesn't you know you're going to exactly ruin the meaning of things.

It's also good to have somebody proof read and make sure you're not getting too meta.

And because you want the books to be read by all you want the books to be read by a casual fan of whoever it is or a diehard fans.

You can't get too into it without providing some explanations, like you can't ever assume well, I thought most people knew that, and you know, Tim, you're the only one that knows that, Like.

You know right, Yeah, that sounds like what I've heard said about record producers.

They'll they'll say, when an artist produces themselves, they're not really producing.

You need someone else to produce an artist.

For the most part, I agree with that.

For the most part, they're not producing, They're just recording themselves.

Right, exactly.

So, And I got to say the props to your designer because the books, especially the one you sent, the eight track one, which really piqued my interest because that was.

You know, my first.

Stereo system, so to speak, was an eight track player that was handed down to me by my cousin.

So when I was buying albums with my own money, it was on eight track.

And that book, visually is is really really that one?

Yeah?

That's that started out as a Kickstarter campaign because I always thought it would be one and done.

Cool.

I wrote a book, and then once I discovered that you can do put out books through Amazon and they take care of the printing and the shipping and all of that, that really opened up the possibilities.

But yeah, Unschooled is a coffee table book.

I've also called it a bathroom reader, and I don't take that as an insult because the books that rest behind you on the throne are books that you return to time and time again.

Right where you can get a page or two and you don't lose context of what's happening.

Yeah, and it's a Yeah.

Unspoiled is a book you can just open up anywhere, you don't have to read it cover to cover.

And it's not just about obscure eight tracks.

That's a lot of what's in there, but it's about collecting.

There's a lot of collecting stories in there.

What drives people to collect?

And you know, there is a chapter on what how eight tracks actually work because it's a really weird technology in the way that they had a they had a little thin strip of tape that turned a quarter turn every time, and that there was a different song, and which is why they'd start to you know, they'd blame together, you'd get the crosstalk, you'd get two songs playing at the same time, and I had no idea.

Yeah, a terrible medium, let's just say it.

What what made them popular was the.

Port of building right exactly as you could throw.

You could chuck a stereo in your car and you could listen to whatever album you wanted to when you wanted to listen to it.

Yeah, the songs might be out of order.

Yeah, you might have songs that go halfway through straight out big clunk, and then it comes back in.

Or you might have to put a tape in and it winds up and you have tape spaghetti.

But yeah, cool, terrible medium, but yeah.

Or if you you only like one song, you have to fast forward the rest of the album and get back.

Yeah, you cannot rewind them right, right, And often a lot of players didn't even have fast forward.

You just had to let it play or punch over to the next program and hope something you like is on there.

Well, when you punched over to the next program, you didn't punch over to the beginning of the next program, punched over to If you were two minutes in on program one, you'd be two minutes in on program Very strange, and that's also one of the reasons why they kept They tried to keep the four programs as equal to length as possible, right, so you didn't too much silence.

That's why they sometimes they'd repeat songs and they had to cut songs in half.

Ye very strange.

Why did I write a book about it?

I don't know.

I was really just fascinated by the fact that where they kind of disappeared from the store shelves around nineteen eighty one nineteen eighty two, that the record clubs kept them going all the way to November of eighty eight.

It's like, I don't know why, and I don't know why they eventually stopped.

But there are some very strange later eighties albums, big albums that are visible in this a track medium, and it's a very odd thing, and nobody seemed to be talking about it.

And it's yes, it's a very very small part of music history, but I think it should be documented.

So I kept a list of every I put a list of every known album to exist in that format that were only available through the record club.

So that's why it kind of starts in eighty one and goes to eighty eighth.

And I was able to look through a little bit too, and I really liked I believe it was toward the end when you had I forget exactly how you worded it, but it was kind of your want list, like, I think there was a there was a a Kiss album was on there.

I think it was, it was, it was, it was five.

It was five albums that, given the parameters of when the record club stopped making eight albums available on a track, could exist.

So I listed five albums yea, and list the reasons why it could exist and then why it probably doesn't.

And I listed Kiss Asylum because Animalize is the last known Kiss album to exist on eight track.

I actually own Animalize.

What I don't have is Creatures of the Night Lick It Up.

Those are on my wont Those are grails for me.

But they were putting eight tracks out in nineteen eighty five, So why does an Animalize exist?

So I said, well, you know it could exist because of you know, certain other titles that were released around the same year.

The reason it probably doesn't exist is because it didn't have a big hit single like Heaven's on Fire on it didn't sell It sold about half as many copies.

So that's so I went through about five that that conceivably could exist.

And when you're talking about something like this, I can never say definitively this does not exist on eight track.

I always say as far as I know, here's where it went to for this band or this band did not have any albums on eight track, because there could We're talking about things that even for big albums, there wouldn't be very many of them made.

So imagine an album that didn't sell very well.

That might be single digit amounts of them.

I don't know.

They might have offered them in the catalogs, but nobody ordered them, so they never pressed any I don't know, right interesting.

So I don't know if you would have this information handy.

But in that time period, what do you I think the percentage of sales for an album was on eight track?

Oh?

Man, I have to think I'd have to think it was small.

I'd have to think it was very small.

It's very odd to me.

I didn't know about this until about the mid nineties.

I discovered an old website that doesn't exist anymore called eight track heaven dot com, and it was the history of the eight tracks.

But there was one section called the Eighties Record Club only eight tracks, And this blew my mind because one of the first, one of the first ones I saw a picture of was George Harrison's Cloud nine album I'm like that's from nineteen eighty seven.

I don't remember seeing eight tracks from nineteen eighty seven.

Then I saw David Lee Rossiedeman Smile and that was like, what is going on here?

So I started looking down through the list and as the years, I was just fascinated by it.

So there's this whole subsection of albums that came out that most people don't even know about it unless you were a member, and a member in the US.

I'm in Canada and Columbia's existed in Canada under its own like Columbia's Canada, they seem to stop in nineteen eighty four for some reason, so they did go a little bit beyond the retail cutoff, but they didn't keep them going as long as in the States.

So in the US it's really weird.

Starting in nineteen eighty six, CDs were now an option for Columbia's, so that means there were a good almost a three year period where you had four choices of formats.

If you were a member of Columbia's, you had the final cassette, A track or CD doesn't make any sense.

It's like finding out that dinosaurs and humans existed at the same time.

The eight tracks and CDs overlapped by about three years.

Doesn't make any sense.

So but I can't imagine they're being very many of them sold because it's just so well will I will say this, and it's a cliche, but there is some truth to it.

If you were a country music fan in the eighties, you were well served by the record clubs because all of the country music artists, their albums were made available on eight track, doesn't you know, Eat Randy Travis, Dwight, Yoakum Highway one oh one.

All of those artists that were around eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight, their albums came out on eight track.

And I guess it's the whole cliche with the pickup truck and the eight track player, but there was something to it.

I mean, there wasn't a lot of hard rock and metal, and when there is, those are the eight tracks that go for big bucks because they are so rare, like Motley Cruz, Shut Up the Devil.

If one of those comes up on eBay, it's usually usually ends up going for hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

Wow, just because it's a Motley Crue eight track.

It doesn't like, you know, it's like what so, yeah, you know.

So it's not a matter of the age of it, it's who it is really because there are some you know, like kiss Collectors, they got to have everything right.

Well that that would include those hand those handful of eight tracks that came out in the eighties.

Yeah, maybe John five has one.

Oh he probably does.

Yeah, I mean if anybody would, right, I've done all right, Like I said, I'm only missing creatures and lick it up.

But it's it's just a weird thing to see these well known eighties album covers in that format, ye with the strange track listing on them.

I talked to I talked to someone who said that their mother was in Columbia House in the eighties and she kept forgetting to change her preference of selection, so she kept getting these eight tracks.

She didn't want that.

I said, I bet you wish you kept those and didn't open them.

He's like, yeah, yeah.

I probably wish I still had all mind from the seventies.

But and I'm also old enough to remember that reel to reel was also an option.

Real is one format.

I do not have any of That's like the last frontier for me, because they still haven't come down in price, and they probably won't.

I've seen I can go, you can go on eBay and find I've seen kiss Ones, Destroyer Dynasty.

It would be cool to have, Like I always think i'd be cool to have one or two, but I know me too well once I have one or two.

But like the eight tracks, Columbia House made albums available on reel to reel longer than I don't ever remember seeing those in stores.

I always thought that reel to reel was strictly for recording.

It wasn't until like the early two thousands I started reading that that albums came in these boxes with the reels on them.

But you can go on discogs and find albums like Lanhalo nineteen eighty four and Yes nine on one two five and Steve Perry Street talk on reel to Reel.

They're not for sale, but there's pictures of them.

Yeah, I remember.

I just remember that being an option in Columbia House.

I'm like, who the fuck has al over here?

Well, you know what, I'll tell you.

Where I read about it was in one of Dale Sherman's books on Alice Cooper, and it talked about he showed a picture of the Killer Album on reel to reel, which blew my mind.

A little little box, a little bit bigger than a CD and just one a single reel of tape, and you had to you had to thread it on the machine.

And one thing that you could do with those that you couldn't really do with any others.

If you really wanted to play something backwards, you could just flip, just flip the reel over it, you know, whereas if you did that with a regular record player, you'd ruin the records and the needle.

Right yeah.

Plus if you wanted to make your own edit, that's the easiest format.

Oh man, you get a zor and some tape.

Yeah, do a little dig.

Oh yeah, I think I work.

I work in radio, and when I started, I had to learn how to do that with recording on reel to real make a little diagonal cut in that little white tape, and I hope to god you've got it just to the right spar cut it right there.

A primitive mixtape you could have.

Listen, listen back and oh that was the wrong spot.

You cut the wrong thing out.

Make he's the tape on the floor is the stuff is the good stuff.

You make a mixtape like that for a chick, you must be really into her and if she doesn't like it, that's gonna be a problem.

Okay, Well, uh, we have brought Tim in to uh do our regular thing, which is, uh analyze a specific song, and as is customary for our first time guess, he gets to pick the song.

He's already told me what it is, all right, so uh, before we get into that, though, we've got Andy a couple of things here over on the table look like they might be uh something that in.

The oven just a little bit to go.

The jingle is a song from Asylum, which to our knowledge was never on a track, but this jingle would sound good.

I think Nick Nick baked for us Tim a little uh muffin up sorts.

I don't know.

Yeah, it's the only downside Tim of you coming in remotely, as we don't have any way to transport these bait treats to you.

That's okay, enjoy them vicariously, like I'll it's.

Kind of late there for you too, Huh, you're like two.

Hours it's it's coming up on midnight.

Yeah, be right over.

Can you like walk to the Atlantic ocean from where you're at or what.

No, that'd probably be about a six hour drive, but it's not not too far.

Okay.

So I'm in the in the province of New Brunswick is on the on the border of Maine.

So I grew up, you know, listening to as much US radio is Canadian radio, and and uh you know, so it's uh yeah, I've always we lived close to the border.

Okay, all right, so.

What do we got here, nickum?

So we got as of this recording, Halloween is tomorrow, and an old tradition seems to stem back from the UK for the most part.

We've got a couple of soul cakes, which the poor people would go It was kind of the origin of trick or treating from what I could tell, The poorer people would go knock on the richer people's doors, say please, can we have something to eat?

Something?

You know, give us something and will go to the church later and we will pray for you and your family and all your deceased loved ones.

Okay, we're getting into all Souls Day coming up, so we have I looked up a bunch of recipes and uh kind of combined all the spices that I had that would go into it.

So a lot of flavors going on.

But yeah, made some made some soul cakes which I had never made before.

Interesting, a little history lesson for us.

I thought it was pretty interesting.

I stumbled upon it.

Thank you.

How is it, Chris?

Do you have it yet?

I haven't tried it?

And there's some poppy seeds on top.

They love the reason that drug test you take it this week?

Failing that?

But yeah, all right, so there's yeah, a lot going on there flavor wise, but yeah, I hope you enjoy well.

Thank you Nick.

Chris.

As soon as you're done with that bite, are you going to be the one who announces?

Uh?

I should play it in the canal.

He should be back with us in a minute or two.

It's not that dry.

It'll sound like a Warbly eight trap.

Come say that.

You won't be able to understand it, But yes, I will be announcing the reveal.

All right, you tell me when you're ready.

Yeah, I'm ready.

All right, Well, let's turn the microphone over to Chris Jericho.

Hell, this one's.

Called Don't Tell Me You Love Me off of Dawn Patrol by the band Night.

Ranger, First Night Ranger song it is right, Yeah.

Yeah, we've had damn Yankees, So we had some Jack Blades on the show.

But we've discussed Brad Gillis quite a bit.

Yeah, and with his time in Aussie.

Right so yeah, and then as we've discussed him, did an entire book about Night Ranger.

Anybody from the band have any input on that book?

Have you you interviewed anybody from the group.

No, it's it's I do know that the band has copies of them because buddy of mine, Josh, works with the band, and I sent him a copy for each of the five current band members.

But well, let's put it this way.

I haven't been I haven't been given a season desist letter.

So that's good.

Yeah, that's as good as that's a good science.

It's a thrown book in the tour bus probably.

Yeah, well, you know it's it's kind of by the fans for the fans.

But yeah, I hope that I hope that you know, anybody into these books that I do.

I hope that people appreciate that time went into it.

It's just it's just a bunch of guys' opinions about each of the studio albums and if we weren't fans, we wouldn't be doing it right.

By the way, if if anybody's wondering what I held up.

This is the Japanese single for Don't Tell Me a Lot, all right, So pretty old picture of the guys there.

So this is the first song on their first album.

Huh yeah, first song in the first first album, first single, first video, first taste that that you know the world got of this band.

I had no idea.

And the same calendar year that Brad Gillis was in and out of Ozzy's band, that's right, And then before the end of the year this came out.

Yeah.

Yeah, Brad had to choose, you know, did he did he did he go on with Ozzy or did he stick with his own band?

He decided to stick with his own band.

Wow, he's still doing it, so yeah, he's.

Still I mean, there's still there's three fifths of the band that's intact.

Mean, Jack Blades, Kelly Cagey and Brad Gillis are still there.

So uh, there's there's still out on tour.

So yeah, and I and I don't think, to my knowledge, I don't think there's ever been a book about Night Rangers and I think any classic band needs to be commemorated in that way.

And I'm just I've always been a big fan of these guys, so it was a sooner or later I was going to get to them.

Yeah.

No, it's uh from a guitar player, a guitar nerd standpoint.

And then Tony Griggs on the chat just pointed out but you know, Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson were quite the guitar duo that.

Yeah, comparatively speaking, does it get talked about as much as something.

No, I don't think the band as a whole gets talked about enough.

And I think they kind of slid between the cracks because they predated a lot of what became known as hair metal.

But I think that they paved you know, they're one of those bands that helped pave the way for harder rock bands to get on the radio with sort of louder guitars.

And I also think that, you know, even though they wrote sort of poppy, melodic rock songs, I think the fact that you did have Brad and Jeff shredding on these songs, they got a lot of cred with the harder rocking.

You know, the metal heads, plus the fact that you know, Brad was an Aussie's band.

I always say that if you know, if you were an Auzzy guitarist, just like you were anointed, right, the metal gods have anointed you, so you'll always be remembered for that.

So I think that kind of most bands that played the type of music that Night Ranger played, you know, people would be like, ah, that's wimpy, but you know, they kind of got by because people like, check out the solos man, They're amazing.

Yeah, whereas most radio listeners just that's really good.

I'm not sure who it is, you know what I mean?

Like it.

They were just kind of they were the type of band that could play stadiums.

They were the type of band that you'd hear in the grocery store, like.

They had that ability to cross over that and that's not a bad thing, but I do think that there was the record labels sometimes didn't really know what to do with a band like that.

And it's the same age old story.

Once you have a hit, a big hit with a ballad, then the record label wants another one, and another one, another one.

They want all the singles to be like that and that's kind of one of the reasons why they didn't really band.

They sort of just went on hiatus in nineteen eighty nine because they just they said, you know, we want off of MCA because they suck, right.

But they had a you know, they had a at least a half dozen major hits in the eighties.

They had a good run.

But it's a band that I just it amazes me how little certifications that they have.

If you go on ria dot com, Midnight Madness and Seven Wishes are both single platinum.

Big Life is gold and the greatest hits that came out in eighty nine is gold.

That's it, right, Yeah.

Now, most albums like Midnight Madness has Sister Christian on it.

It also has you can Still Rock in America.

It has when you close your eyes.

Most albums that have three well known songs like that are more than single platinum.

Yeap, Nope.

So either a rioddit and need's done or something doesn't that up or are.

They just you know, they ended up being a singles band.

You know, people just consume the singles or heard them all the time on the radio, and they were good with that.

Never felt the need to plunk down for the albums.

But yeah, that is kind of surprising.

Those sales figures do seem.

Okay, And I'm surprised that Don Patrol isn't at least gold.

That doesn't make any sense to me.

Yeah, because you know, given what came after it, I just think that this is a band that you know.

Yeah, Sister Christian is their best known song.

It's their signature song.

I think it's a magnificent song.

I've never gotten tired of it, and if it comes on the radio, I always listen to it because it's night ranger on the radio.

It's not a case where it's like, you know more than words.

It's like, I don't need to hear this again.

I love extreme, but I don't need to hear no Sister Christian.

I will listen to.

It's just I have to think they've got at least a dozen songs that should get constant rotation on what we now call all these radio they're in fact, Yeah.

I remember hearing this one quite a bit.

Well, this was this is Chicago head rock radio.

Yeah, and this was a staple on early MTV.

I mean this video.

Yeah, they they really benefited from having videos and having videos early because yeah, now I never saw this.

I probably didn't, No, I know, I didn't see this video until the advent of YouTube, because up here in Canada we had a station called much Music that was our version of MTV.

Night Ranger was never a band that came up here that much, so I would see some of their videos, but I never saw I never saw this one or sing Me Away.

I never saw anything from that first album until the advent of YouTube.

And I never even heard Don't Tell Me You Love Me until I got the Greatest Hits in eighty nine, so that went right over my head, but it very quickly became one of my all time favorite songs.

Yeah.

Well, like I said, with MTV, I think we came on our cable system right around the time when this album came out.

It didn't, it didn't We didn't get it right when MTV came out eighty one, but it was sometime in eighty two and it got to activated and this this video is on at least every two or three hours for a month.

And you know, it was cool.

I mean, the band looked cool, it was exciting.

You know, there was a train coming and sometimes they're on the train and you know, it's it's held up, you know, not bad really Like some older videos, even if they're great songs, they don't hold up very well.

But this is a young band and they're excited to be rocking out and it basically it's a performance video with a little bit of concept, right, And Tony in the chat raises a good point.

Yeah, that first Damn Yankees album went double platinum, and I think that has a lot to do with record label.

And it's the same gripe that I've that I've got with Y and T.

And I talk about that in that book a lot.

It's that Y and T were on A and M Records, and that was not a label that knew how to market a hard rock band.

I always wish that they'd been on a label like Electro or Atlantic or Warner or Mercury or CBS, because those, you know, things seemed to happen like and with night Ranger like MCA.

I don't think was quite as lax as A and M when it came to harder rock music.

But it's like they did the bare minimum.

They weren't going to break too much of a sweat to promote them.

I don't know that's just the way that I that I look at it.

But you know, or Geffen.

You know, if Geffen had had gotten a hold of them, and John Kalodner from the beginning had gotten a hold of Night Ranger, they could have put up the exact same albums as they are.

I just think they would have gotten into more households and they just they would have been more of a more of a force out there.

The other thing about Night Ranger is that they're a likable band, but they were never in your face.

They weren't five guys that had this image that you just couldn't get out of your head.

And they didn't get the covers of the magazines all the time.

Brad and I've got the Guitar magazine covers a lot.

Yeah, but you didn't see them as often as you saw Motley or def Leppard or Van Halen or they just they weren't They didn't have those loud personalities where you knew all the guys in the band, and you know, they kind of had a you know, they're kind of a you look at them and they they look like half one type of band, half another type of band.

You know, you've got Alan Fitzgerald with the with the beret and the sunglasses, and you had like the medical scrubs on When I was younger, I used to think, is that the same guy that's in Princess?

They like?

But I never got the medical scrubs as on stage uniform thing.

But yeah, okay, so I don't know, Andy, do you have any opinion on on in these guys?

I was gonna say, Uh, there's a cover of this song by this band called Schlong that came out in nineteen ninety five.

Great cover off Kilter.

Are you familiar with tim?

Oh?

It's kind of strange and it's I don't know why.

I don't know if it's like a way to avoid paying royalties.

I'm not trying to accuse them of anything illegal.

But the title is ask me Tomorrow, but don't tell me you love me.

I don't know why, but it's it's like it's kind of a strange long beginning and then it kind of breaks into a familiar version of this okyah.

But it's cool.

Well, yeah, I have to check that out.

Well, that's the other thing.

I mean, in a strange way, someone's asking the question how big was how big was night Ranger having the title track on Secret of My Success.

Well, I will say that song peaked at sixty four, and I think that they were putting all the eggs in that basket that year with the Big Life album, that they'd have a big the title song from a Michael J.

Fox movie, and we're set.

We got another hit album.

And it didn't quite work that way.

But they're not a.

Band that people talk about as an influence, and they're not a band that people cover apparently did yeah.

Yeah, now, but Andy, about the Schlang cover, how long did it take you to realize that it was a Night Ranger cover?

Did you know this right away?

I knew that right away because I'd heard the song enough times, just on radio or whatever.

But there's another cover on there that I didn't know for twenty years was a cover.

It's Kid Charlemagne.

Oh Steely Dan.

Seely, I had no idea it was a cover, all right?

Did you like Kid Charlemagne?

Yeah?

From Schlong.

Yeah, it's it's completely different than the Steely Dan version.

Very memorable intro musical intro to that one.

I don't have to check that out because that's probably my favorite Steely Dan song.

Well, it's on the same album as my favorite Steely Dan song as an iconic guitar solo on it.

Guessing that that's not the case.

I'm a long version.

I don't think it's even in there.

Yeah, but no, that's interesting, So okay, I think we should get into it.

Yeah, let's do it.

Let's take a quick commercial break, and we'll be right back with Don't Tell Me You Love Me.

See it does have back to the point that was made earlier.

It's got it's pretty heavy, but then like you've got where the the distorted guitars just kind of ringing and kind of fading out, and then you've got the sort of keyboard sound, and then it's like, okay, like we're in eighties pop land here, and then everything kicks back in it.

I describe it in the book as a melodic rock thrill ride.

I just think that it covers so much territory.

The combination of that clean electric guitar with the heavy riff at the beginning and the drums going intan just is perfect because they're two desperate things.

If it was just the clean arpeggiated guitar, you'd be like, Okay, well, this is some easy listening, you know, yacht rock or whatever type of thing.

If it was just that, you're like, okay, this is full on, like this is like priest or something, right, But you put it together and it's its own thing.

But even in the verses it does come down a little bit, but you've still got the drums are slamming, you know, Kelly's all over it, boom boom boom, So it doesn't really let up that much.

And then and every time, you know, when when Jack finishes the vert it just doesn't let up.

It's the chorus is just so instantly likable and it's simple.

It gets right in your head.

The chord changes are great.

It's one of the best guitar solos that's ever made the top forty airwaves.

You've got Brad doing the first half and then Jeff doing the second half.

I could and it's complicated and it's shredding, and they're playing very fast.

I can hum that guitar solo.

It's still melodic.

And one of the things that I love about this band and this song is, you know, a prime example is that they pay attention to all parts of the song.

They don't just think, Okay, we got to catch a chorus.

We're good all the way to the end, that final playout where it's like ran and I ran, Like that's perfect.

That's a new part of the song that you haven't heard before.

And it's almost like saying thank you for listening.

And I love how it just it doesn't fade.

It's like dumb, dumb, dumb, Like it just it ends cold and you're like, wow, what was that?

So you're giving away the whole song before we even listen.

Oh, I'm sorry, that's fine.

I wanted to point out that I never thought of it until now that I guess that's yeah, that arpeggiated, clean intro on the guitar.

It's a faster version.

I'm sure the chords are different, but it really really reminds me of a song Chris turned me on too a few years ago, which is Tomorrow Night by Shoes.

Right, I've heard of them.

They're like a power.

Pop yeah man, yeah, yeah, And it's it's kind of got that jingly sort of arpeggiated thing going on too.

So let me try and walk back towards the first of it then, because.

It ruins form no, I think, but.

What what also amazes me about Night Rangers, like, where did that sound come from?

Because the roots of the guys at Night Ranger are not generally hard rock.

Jack and Brad came from a band called Rubicon and they did two albums in the late seventies.

They were formed by Jerry Martini, who was a member of Sli and the Family Stone.

Now I knew enough about this band, Rubicon to know Jack Blades and Brad Gillis were in them.

I found their first album in a box of records that at some thrift shop for fifty cents.

It kind of has a cool cover on it.

It's got like a mint tour on it, so I thought, okay, that's a cool cover.

Jack Blades and Brad Gilliser in this band.

This is probably pretty good.

Probably sounds a little bit like Night Ranger, I didn't know.

It doesn't sound anything like Night Race.

Sounds an awful lot more like Sliding the Family Stone than it does Night Rangers.

So, needless to say, that album didn't stay in my collection very long.

And also Jack didn't sing most of the songs, so it's not the same thing.

Towards the end of their career, Kelly Kagey also joined, So you had the three guys that are still a night Ranger today playing together already, but then they broke away.

And initially they were called Stereo and they were more of a new wave thing, which is what reminded me when when Nick mentioned the power pop thing.

So how did they get this hard rock element, like it's just weird?

Where that came from?

Was that Jeff Watson.

Now, Alan Fitzgerald goes back to the second Montrose album, Paper Money.

He even plays Bill Church on bass.

He also played keyboards, and then he was in Sammy Hagar's band for a few Sammy Hagar's solo band at one point was basically Montrose without Ronnie.

And then and then Fits as they call him, was also played a little bit in that band Gamma, that that Ronnie Montrose had at the turn of the eighties.

So he, I mean, as a keyboard player, he had the most hard rock pedigree.

So I just I don't understand how it coalesced into this really cool combination of pop hooks and heavy riffs that you get on Don Patrol.

And Don Patrol is also a very accomplished debut album.

There are no kinks that needed to be worn, you know, worn out, it came fully formed.

Now granted these guys all had recording experience, but it's just it's just one of the best.

Definitely one of the best.

Aid Oh what happened?

It sounds like if it's on their fifth or sixth Yeah, I.

Think I think the obvious you gotta bring in Brad's time and Assie's band, as as as a definite influx of that hard rock sound.

But but yeah, I mean maybe they just sensed that that was their opportunity, that was the best chance they had to break break pretty big, and they went in that direction.

So so, yeah, let's check out some more.

Don't tell you, Don't tell you.

Yeah, I think the tempo changes are what really sort of drew half time.

Yeah, but then it goes right back into you know what you're used to, and there's a great it's not you don't really hear unless you're trying to figure out how to play it.

There's a great metal riff right before it goes back into the verse at the end of the core that.

Okay, I think I paused it right on that, but yeahah oh yeah, it's a it's a great little it's a fun little riff, but if you play it with full on distortion, it could become a completely good metal song.

But in the context of the night Ranger, it just leads you to the next part.

Is that riff in the Schlong version.

I'll have to check after the show.

I can't remember off the top of my head.

They're three piece, so I don't know if you know if they're doing that or not.

Piece can still peel off of metal riff.

Yeah, yeah, I just don't recall.

Uh, you know, I hope this isn't insulting in anyway, but this kind of I don't want to say, reminds me of but I feel like these bands could be put in the same bucket.

I'm blanking now, what is Mike Reno's bands name?

Lover Boy, Phil lover Boy and night Ranger could kind of work together, right, Yeah?

Sure, yeah, yep, absolutely, because I mean.

What you were describing was kind of you know, also could be categorized as you know, some lover Boy songs as far as like heavy guitars but then big melodies and keyboards from the eighties.

Yeah, and lover Boy on their first album, there's a little bit of like feels to sound like the Kid is High Tonight.

There's a little bit of new wave there.

But on the other hand, Turned Me Loose was pretty heavy for nineteen eighty.

Like you know, it comes on, it comes on unassumingly with those keys all of a sudden, like that's some pretty molten, you know, distorted, saturated guitar tone.

It is lover Boy generally, though I would say on the Richter scale, Night Ranger rock a little harder.

Sure, a lot of it's the way they were recorded too, you know, it has a lot to do with that.

But no, that's not I think that lover Boy were an earlier proponent that opening those doors.

They definitely opened doors for bands.

I mean, for one thing, they put Bruce Fairburn and Bob Rock on the map as producers and they said, hey, come to Vancouver, We'll make you famous, you know.

And so there's there's an AOAR period in the very early eighties that was making those inroads like lover Boy, like Aldo Nova another favorite artist of mine that doesn't get enough credit for that, even what Jefferson Starship we're doing in the early eighties like Jane and Find Your Way Back good one, but with with night Ranger they looked a little bit more like the bands that would follow.

Okay, the hair was the hair was a little longer for the most part.

It's just it was just a different approach, but very similar.

They're all mining that sort of melodic rock thing.

And what I like about it is they're unapologetic about it.

It's not it never seems like it's just in, you know, to get airplayer sales.

It just sounds like they wrote that way.

And another thing I love about these guys is it's generally the music is generally positive.

There's no they don't do dark and dour.

It's always even if it's a heavy song, there's an upbeat.

You know, it makes you just feel good listening to it.

Yeah, the other band I would compare them to, and this band didn't.

I don't to my knowledge, you ever had keyboards in it.

But her all was very similar to Tesla to me.

Well, going back to what you said earlier about the fact that there is no like dominating image of any of the band members, they just kind of gelled together and put out like Tesla's another band where like just hit after hit after hit.

You know.

Yeah, and there's a connection there, right, I mean not just a Bay Area connection, but I would think Tesla are one of the few bands that I've heard talk about Night Ranger because of the two guitar thing.

Now, anybody that knows both bands, I would say, listen to the last song on Dawn Patrol, which is actually called night Ranger, which breaks into this really fast section which surprised me the first time I heard.

It's probably the heaviest moment captured on a night Ranger album.

But there's a back and forth guitar solo.

Then you listen to Coming at You Live from Mechanical.

Can you tell me if they didn't they weren't inspired by that?

Oh, I'm sure they.

Yeah.

And one of I think one of Tesla's first big tours was opening for night Ranger.

Oh I didn't know that.

Okay, well that makes sense.

Yeah, great, another great band.

Absolutely.

I don't care what Jericho says.

It's well, you're from Canada.

What's your take on the following?

Chris Jericho thinks that kick Axe is better than Tesla.

It's one of the most patent.

A good band.

Kick but I like Tesla better good way Now Now kick Ax shows up in my Fleetwood MacBook because they do an incredible version of the chain.

Oh wow, okay, really really.

Heavy version of the chain all right with the distorted bass.

But yeah, all right, but not better than Tesla.

Good.

We're gonna have to cut you off the episode.

Yeah boy, look at the time.

All right, let's keep going.

I took it back a couple of seconds so we can get that uh riff that transitions from the chorus to the verse.

So here we go.

Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, we got to cut.

It before the epic guitar solo.

But the thing the other I was going to bring it up after the in the last segment, but I'll bring it up now.

But Night Ranger, another one of the not so common bands, had two prominent lead singers.

Here of course we're hearing Jack Blades and Kelly Keegey.

The drummer.

Is the guy who sings lead a Night Ranger Goodbye stuff like that.

So too, you know, two guys who could easily do all of the lead vocals if if need, and it would be no compromise and quality.

It's a pretty unique band configuration when you think about it.

Usually there's one front man out front.

Sometimes it plays guitars.

Sometimes not your two singers are your rhythm section, bass player, your drummer.

You get two guitar players and a keyboard player.

I can't think of another band that's set up quite like that.

No, it just occurred to me that they.

Were both but two great singers, yeah, who don't sound the same but sound really good together.

And Jack Blades got lucky with this twice because he and Tommy shap before Damn Yank, He's probably never sang together, but they just found this perfect vocal blend.

Oh yeah, so he's really good at singing with other singers, but he's perfectly capable of all of those guys.

They can take their you know, take the lead on any of the songs.

But Jack's also the primary songwriter like this song as well as a lot of others just him.

It's just solely credited to him.

So he can write a hook like nobody's business.

And so you're you're if you just take the hook line of the song, don't tell me you love me.

It's kind of boppy, right, but you're don't tell me you love You're too busy bang in your head to take that what is really pop?

So it's perfect, like it's it's just this perfect ear candy.

Yeah.

And and since you mentioned unique configurations during the last segment, this actually I jogged my memory.

So my band in the nineties, the Mean Reds, we actually opened for night Ranger at a place called the Baja Beach Club out in the suburb Northwest Suburbs somewhere I can't remember where it is in Chicago.

Oh, let me have mend that we were supposed to open to them for them.

But so night Ranger, if you've ever seen their stage set up, the drums are actually off to.

The side sideways, and.

So the drums are stage left from the band's point of view, stage right from the audience's point of view, and then the three guys in the guitars and bass in the middle, and then keyboards off to the side.

So we get there and they just got done sound checking, and because of that stage configuration, there was like a postage snamp area in the middle of the stage where like, okay, that's where you guys can set up, and we just we couldn't even fit.

And also it's when you have a drum set in front of another drum set, it's a lot easier to move those drum mics around.

This would have required moving the drum mics from the side of the stage to the middle and then back.

And we were like in the middle of setting up and finally either the stage manager or somebody is like, you know what, guys, this isn't gonna work.

Well, you'll still get paid, but you can't play tonight.

Wow.

And we just packed up our stuff and watched Night Ranger and enjoyed ourselves and got paid, but we never got the chance to play because we couldn't fit on the stage with that configuration.

I'm curious would this have been at what point was this in the nineties.

This is probably Jack wasn't in the band.

It would have been either ninety five or ninety six in that area.

So that would have been the feeding off the Mojo period when Jack was not in the bank.

I think that's correct.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's an interesting I like that album.

It's an interesting period because it's a lot of a lot of like the band themselves don't even acknowledge that album.

Now, right, So yeah, so that just jogged my mind when we were talking about configure.

Yeah, that's it's it is.

Yeah, that would be problematic, especially in the stage that's small to begin with.

What are you going to do with the side?

Yea, you would think the promoter would be aware of that before they had a schlap all the way out there and get paid not to play.

But you know, it was interesting and Night Ranger put on a good show.

Obviously seeing Brad Gillis in action was awesome.

But anyway, that's my little Night Ranger anecdote.

So I wonder if that was a frequent problem they had, because you made it sound like that's the other Quickly they came in and they're like, it's not gonna work.

Right, that's the other thing I'm saying.

It's like, if you know that's going to be an issue, you don't hire an opening band, and the promoter should know that.

So yeah, I don't know, yeah, because it's like.

Either that or they just looked at us like these guys are assholes.

Fuck them, We're not gonna let them play.

I mean, well no, I mean obviously they've had people open for them, so it's like it can't it.

It must have been the size of the stage.

It was, and again the place was called Baja Beach Club.

They actually had fucking sand out and like fake Palm.

Trees played there.

Yeah, you know what, I didn't occur to me the first time he said that it sounds.

Like the type of place that Sammy would play.

Yeah, right, like type of place he would live at that too, exactly.

And it was just like it was a weird booking to begin with to have them playing there, and then you know to it had to have been the stage manager of the club.

It's just like, you know what, this isn't going to work.

We'll pay you not to play, take your ship off the stage.

It was just like, you know what, I don't want to move these drum mics.

There's the second an opener.

We got to move the spit if we're gonna get you guys on the stage.

I'm sorry, it's.

Spit night tonight, fake fake Lifeguard tower has to come down, and it's just not going to work.

It's a whole Yeah.

So anyway, here we go into the face belting dual guitar solo.

Nick, are you're familiar with this one going into it?

I've you know what, I couldn't humm it like Tim said he could, but I'm pretty sure I can.

I know, I've I know I've heard it, and once it starts, I'm sure it's all going to come back.

But yeah, I remember hearing this song a lot on the radio.

There's there's so much guitar nerd a lot, a lot going on here, especially in brad section.

So let's let's hear it all.

Let's keep going here we go.

Okay, So that was Brad Gillis's portion.

I'm gonna nerd out a little guitar.

Tim will probably on board, he probably knows all this, and Tack can add more factoids in.

But so, one of the first Floyd Rose locking tremolo units is on Brad Gillis's number one, the red strat, before I add the fine tuners on the bridge, just locks at the bridge, locks the knut so you can do all those crazy dive barms, whammy bar tricks, that war bole he does.

That's the that's the crown jewel of that section of the solo.

Nobody, nobody's ever done that before or since then.

I've seen a clip of him on on YouTube showing how he does that.

It's like he it's like it's he's right on the pickup and.

And it's just that never heard that before.

And if anybody's attempted it, since they just can't come close to do it.

They don't call him the King of the whammy bar for nothing.

Oh I know.

And he used it to brilliant effect on Speak of the Devil, because that effect works wonderfully on a black Sabbath.

Song and on the Hearing Aid song.

Stars.

Yes, when we've done we've done an episode on that.

So yeah, but yeah, that was uh, you know, the Floyd Rose was invented by Floyd Rose because once Van Halen came out, everybody wanted to do that, but when they tried it, the guitar ended up hopelessly.

Out of tune out of two.

Yeah, it's like, you better save that for your last song because if you go his from.

A right and uh, you know, so invented the locking knot and then the strings also lock in at the bridge and uh, one of the first what two or three ever made is still on his red guitar, right too.

Yeah, that old beat up red and black strat.

Yeah, I mean that guitar has been with him everywhere.

It's it's a and that's a huge, huge like that that that last whammie bar thing before like before we we switch over to Jeff's part.

That's a big you know, oh yeah, that's that's not subtle.

That's like this far above the front board.

I mean somebody like dimebag Darryl would would if he was around, if anybody asked him, So what what uh?

What inspired you to really do those tremolo of our pull up squeals.

I'll bet you he would.

He would have referenced this because it was.

You know, yeah, I wouldn't surprise me at all, or Zach Wilde or anybody that would.

Any guitarist, hard rock guitarist worth worth worth his salt is worshiping at the altar of Brad Gillis and.

This, you know, you talk about, you know, a different configuration of a band.

I saw a clip this year, not too too long ago, Nuno Bettencore doing this song, playing both parts of the solo and singing it.

Well, if anybody could pull out, probably the only guy on the planet.

But yeah, so that yeah, I mean this one again, it's that portion, especially the definition of face melter.

I mean, you know, you first see that on m t V or you hear it on the radio, like Holy ship.

That's the next level guitar playing, you know, so.

Here comes Jef Yeah, and then you know.

Jeff Watson is the les Paul player, so there's no tremolo on that.

He's just straight up shredding.

And what came out on the next album, on You Can Still Rock in Americas, he did that the full ten finger.

Tapic oh yeah.

On the fret board that became his signature move, thumbs and all.

Possibly.

I mean, it sure looked like he had every every appendage on the fret board before buckethead.

Huh yes, before buckehead.

And he didn't wear a fast food container over his heat either, you know.

But yeah, that was just you know, pure pure shredding right there.

And it's not like mindless just playing through the scales there.

There's a melody.

There, there is, Yeah, like it's like telling a story.

Like you said, I going in.

I haven't heard this in a while, But when Nick was saying I'm not sure I could hum it, I was like, I'm pretty sure I could hum this whole thing through.

And that's you get to say that about what is essentially a dual shred solo is pretty impressive.

So and that the way that well, I guess like the first half or so of the Jeff Watson solo.

Really the pattern he's playing really reminds me of the pattern played during the outro solo of Bark at the Moon.

Yeah, yeah, which which is just a year later.

Yeah, so who knows.

I think all these guitar players were listening to each other.

I would imagine, right, because it had to be super competitive.

Yeah, well, they had to be able.

To do what everybody else was doing.

Yeah.

I mean, when you know Eddie Van Hale and threw down the gonglet that just changed the game for everybody.

And you know, to invoke my nickname to be a gun swinger from that point forward.

But to do it this melodically was real feather.

Yeah, within the contents of radio friendly song.

Yeah, and play for the song.

It wasn't just gratuitous shredding.

There was a genuine excitement there, like that, this is an there's excitement in this song.

I hear it in the vocal, I hear it in the drums, and you know it's it's just they just captured magic.

I think I agree.

What do you think about what Tony Grig said here mor and d Martini used that.

Yeah, I know, what he I know what he means.

Yeah, and there's another you know, Rat is a band that I think I listened to them more now than I did ever.

Okay, and I do not think they did a bad album.

That Rat Rat.

Yeah, Chris is a Rat fan.

I mean I never really owned the albums.

I love the and obviously the musicianship, so I wouldn't say I was like a huge Rat guy.

But I thought you were too well when when I when I moved into the dorm was like eighty five eighty six.

All the other guys on the floor were eight metal heads, hair metal guys.

This is news to me that you are not a big Rat guy.

I never I never owned a Rat album in my life.

Oh.

I always thought you're the area Rat guy.

For whenever we've talked about Rat, you've got a big Milton guy.

I think.

I have gone on record as saying that Stephen Pearcy is the prototypical hair metal front man.

I mean, if you were just going to create one out of from scratch and put together all the best ingredients, it's him.

And in any other band you would not want him singing No, but it Rat.

It's It's perfect right.

You wouldn't want anybody else singing.

Robin Crosby's contribution.

I just think that band was a cut above.

Oh absolutely, they sold a lot of records, but I don't think people realized that they were just really good.

Oh yeah, and you know, fucking brilliant guitar playing.

And but no, that surprises me that you thought I was a Rat guy.

In college, my roommate accused me of being a Deaf Leopard guy.

I was like, I've never owned a Deaf Leppard album in my life.

I like the videos because there's T and A in them, but you know, but no, No, never owned a Rat album ever.

Okay.

I wasn't necessarily opposed to it.

I just I had heard it from other sources.

I didn't need to own the album.

I heard it everywhere.

Yeah, I guess that was enough.

Yeah, Okay, we got a little bit more to go here, guys, let's continue.

Andy, how did Schlong handle that section?

Did they tackle that part similarly or just do something?

Yeah?

I think they ended it before then.

They probably ended before the solo.

Okay, so they weren't tackling every part of the arrangement, right, all right, leave it to Schlong.

You just cover the best parts of it, and you gotta gotta tip your cat to tip your hat for that.

Nothing wrong with that.

Pro pick and choose which parts you want to do.

Add your own stuff at the beginning.

Yeah, why not.

See just today on my way to in the car?

Uh the cover tim, you're familiar with the recent Triumph covered a cover album that came Oh.

Yeah, I reviewed it.

Yeah, the Nancy Wilson's version of Fight the Good Fight came on fucking great and it completely a completely different take on it.

It hasn't very little, if anything, to do other than the lyrics with the original.

I prefer covers that are like that.

I mean, yeah, there are times when I like a straight ahead rendering of it.

But when somebody can put out in an an interesting cover of a song, an iconic song, but do their a whole different spin on it, and it's as good, if not better, I love it, and that it was good.

I I really did like that really quick, funny story about that about that tribute album, because Jack Blades is on that he is, you know.

Yeah, And I started writing this book long before I knew anything about this Triumph tribute album.

And I love Triumph I'm a big Triumph fan.

Oh you have to be right.

I just always there's always a likable band.

Oh, I'm the same way.

The big.

Night Ranger put an album out in twenty eleven called Somewhere in California, which is a really good latter day night Ranger album, like really strong album.

There's a song on that album called follow Your Heart, and I said, no, it's not a Triumph cover, although that might be cool.

Fast forward a few months after I've got this written.

I've had this written for months now and I'm working on other parts of it.

Come to find out that Triumph tribute album's coming out.

Jack Blades is on it, and of all the songs yeah he could have covered, he covered follow your Heart.

So I had to go back and write that in.

I'm like, there's no way I can leave that out of the book because would sound like I'm an idiot, you missed something, which means he sang two completely different songs with the same title.

I just think stupid shit like that is funny.

It's and I love the way and I love how he sings it.

It's that's another band, the Triumph.

I like what I like about night Ranger I like about Triumph.

I'm not saying they sound the same, but they're positive, upbeat.

The lyrics or are generally positive and upbeatn so is the music, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, Now they're a little Triumph or probably a little heavier than night Ranger, but they follow your Heart doesn't sound all that The Triumph song doesn't sound all that different than something that Jack might have written.

Or you know, when they went full on pop with Somebody.

They probably sounded more like night Ranger in the Sport of Kings Absolute Surveillance era.

But but yeah, I just thought that was a really weird coincidence of all the songs to cover, he actually did follow your Heart.

So yeah, oh you're right.

I didn't even that just occurred to me myself.

I have an album called The Sport of Kings.

They do is that golfing?

Okay, Secretary, I.

Was gonna say fox hunting?

Yeah?

Does it have a horse racing theme to the album cover?

It's like tarot cards on a horse track?

Okay, y, yeah, I'll have to check that out.

If you ever heard the song Somebody's out There, it's from that album.

Okay, Wow, I'm gonna check it out.

I like.

I just like the name of that for an album, very interesting.

It's an attention ground.

Be warned that that was there full on four a to appease the record company and be like, okay, we're gonna be It was top forty hair metal, you know, so it's soft bull ship.

Okay.

I like it, like most longtime Triumph fans don't.

But that's when I first became aware of them.

So that's like the first stuff I ever heard from them.

My favorite album from them is thunder seven.

But but yeah, it's very ao R.

It's very commercial, a lot of covers, a lot of outside songwriters which they'd never done before.

Right, So just be aware of that, Andy, It's not usually your thing.

It's not typical Triumph.

Conventional song craft.

Is it really typical Triumph put on Allied Forces?

Okay, yeah, that's I would put that.

It's probably my favorite Triumph album.

Thunder seven is grade.

I saw that tour amazing.

I mean.

That Felix, Alix, yeah, Felix.

Yeah, Helix and Triumph at the Joe nineteen eighty five.

It is fucking awesome.

One of the best light shows of the decade.

That's that In Genesis uh, mid eighties best light shows I've ever seen in concert, hands down, not even close.

Triumph was that big huh to do the Joe Louis Arena.

They played the US Festival.

Triumph had Allied Forces, was a platinum record in the States, and they had just a game Never Surrender in Thunder seven were all gold records, so they sold a decent amount, and they just became known for.

Being the Yeah.

Then I never got to see them because they stopped playing before I even started going to shows.

No, they're kind of like Maiden in so far as the album sales weren't weren't the thing it was.

You got to see him in concert will just blow your mind.

And it's absolutely true.

The light show off the charts good.

I mean, probably Pink Floyd level.

That's usually what people talk about light shows and visuals.

They talk about Pink Floyd.

But like I said, in the mid eighties, a Genesis and Triumph, I saw them within a year of each other, far and away the light shows I've ever seen in person, not even close.

All Right, we've got about a minute left, so let's continue.

Don't tell you about me, Don't.

Tell me, don't tell me.

Don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me.

Thank you good night.

Yeah, I mean, you know that's that's a very definitive stop.

You know what else?

I like they don't beat you to death with the chorus.

It doesn't repeat, repeat and repeat and repeat, and just enough to make you want to hear it again.

Yeah.

Yeah, And you said something earlier that the ending is kind of a thank you for listening.

I like when bands do that where they put something in there where you didn't hear it already.

If you've made it that far, it's not the same.

It's something new.

They take something that's they they expand upon the melody of the song.

Yeah.

So yeah, no, I it's just a masterclass in in in songwriting and every part has a place.

It's not nothing scratuitous there.

Yeah.

When you when you can nail that big concert ending on a studio recording, you've you've achieved something.

Yeah, it doesn't always doesn't always have the same impact, but that it's like, that's as good as you're gonna hear on stage.

Well, for one thing, And I don't have an I don't have an issue with songs that fade out, but that's something that sounds like the band were live in in the studio doing it.

Yes, finished at the same time, absolutely looking at each other like.

Like yeah right, no question.

And that's the kind of ending we're in a live setting.

If someone for whatever reason was completely tuned out during the song, that abrupt ending like that, it gets very attention, and it's it's kind of like Pavloni Pavlovian, you're gonna start, You're gonna start a playing when when there's an ending that's that cohesive.

There's been a scene change.

Yeah, there's some there's something to the abrupt ending like that when it's it's choreographed and rehearsed, you know, and.

Well yeah, and you know the lights with Liken Dan all of a sudden that go completely black for second.

Yeahs cool.

So if someone someone was arguing over a beer sale or something like that and not listening to the song, some sort of issue at the at the concession stand and not listening to the song, it's just background noise.

You hear that ending, it's going to get your attention no matter what the situation is.

I don't know what Kience, I don't know what kind of well he has issues everywhere he goes to him, in case you haven't followed the show, everywhere he goes, there's an incident of some kind.

You can you got punched in the groin at Tiger Stadium a month ago.

That's true.

It's always something.

But I'm okay, keep him in the house, all right.

It's time for us to vote, Sweet Surrender or kick in the crotch.

Chris, you vote first?

Me yep?

Oh sweet surrender of course, Hell yeah, yeah.

I haven't heard this in a while.

My favorite night Ranger is seven Wishes.

My favorite night Ranger song is I Need a Woman.

That's to me their crowning achievement.

It is a deep cut and the guitar solos on that ridiculous fucking and that's a Kelly is it Keigi or keg?

I think it's okay, Kelly Cagy lead vocal that that's my top cut and and like the other you know, sentimental street uh four in the morning.

You know, seven Wishes to me is the apex of h fully formed, you know, fully realized night Ranger.

Uh.

But this one, like I said, this is one of the earliest videos I remember seeing an MTV that wasn't a legacy video because obviously when they started, they had to populate it with older clips.

Was it an old Rod Stewart video or which which was great.

We were just happy to have all those videos.

Yeah.

They were dying for content, and I well, it's another it's another book.

But when I when I talk with the Y and T book, I rage at A and M for not letting them do any videos for the first couple of records on that label because MTV were starving for videos and they would have played them.

Oh yeah, and then you know this was this was one of the first newer videos from a newer band that was like super exciting as the Shredding Guitars, the Great Arrangement, all of it takes me right back to eighty two, So huge, sweetest surrender for me, all right, nick.

A sweet surrender of course.

Hell yeah.

Yeah.

I never really delved too much into Night Ranger, but I will say I'm a big sister Christian fan.

I think it's the best.

If you want to call it a power ballance, I think it's the best one that's up.

Yeah, in that genre.

To argue with it, it's a pretty it's a pretty amazing song and one of the cool things.

It's not a love song per se.

No, it's like a cautionary tale.

Yeah, and Brad solo perfect, you know, it's it's it's a you know, it's another it's another tour or four.

So that's a great vocal from Kelly.

And of course the amazing placement in Boogie Nights during the drug deal scene.

Well, that's that's one of those things where that that's that's the thing with night Rangers, that they're a band that that one song is more popular than the band that does it, because most people, if you say, who's a night Ranger, if you just sing motor in yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, I know that.

Yeah yeah, I mean that was one, you know when you see the movie.

I saw the movie in the theater and just when it started up and during the drug deal scene, it was like completely out of left field.

It was almost like you forgot that the story had moved into the eighties because most of it was set in the seventies up to that point.

And you know, being a night Ranger, a fan of Night Ranger, aware of all their big hits, when that just started playing in the in the movie, just came completely out of left field, and in that context, you're just like, this is the this is the weirdest thing I've ever seen.

I'm sure it probably helped their concert attendance.

Oh that was a that was a rough period for a lot of bands like that.

Yeah, so you know that and Jesse's girl in that scene, it's just like the juxtaposition, if you will, was just it was crazy.

So all right, Tim, you want to vote sweet Surrender or kick in the crotch.

I think I know where this is going.

Give us your vote.

Pretty much, have to say sweet surrendered?

Hell yeah, and tell us why sum it up for us?

Well, I'll repeat what I what I said before, and it's in the book.

This song is a melodic rock thrill ride.

There's not one wasted millisecond in the song.

Everything is perfect.

There are a few songs that I call perfect songs that I that I could never tire of, and this is one of them.

This is one.

Now you're right, all right, and it's go ahead, Andy, But I just saw you pulled up the list.

I was gonna ask if this is on the listener submission list, and it turns out it is.

So you can talk about that after you do your vote or however you want to do it.

Yeah.

You know, for those those individuals it might be whining about do you just start talking about the list and the random generator boots up.

It's got the serie capabilities.

Go ahead, your vote, Andy, Yeah.

I'm going to give it a sweet surrender.

Hell yeah.

Oh man.

It's a great song, and this is something that comes up every once in a while on this show.

Tim.

This is the first time I've ever listened to this song in headphones and really focused on it.

You know, It's something I've heard out many times in my life, you know, just in random settings.

Hear it at bars, or you hear it in the car or whatever with extra noise.

Nick's wedding, Nick's wedding.

Sure, but yeah, the first.

People were fast dancing to it at Nick's wedding.

First time I've ever listened to it this way, and I've an additional appreciation for it.

Definitely a sweet surrender for me.

I will agree with that too.

It's It's one thing to hear it at work on the radio many times over, but when you're really you're kind of stripping away everything else that you're doing and just focusing on it.

You don't have to hear the microwave and the Culligan waterman talking over the solo.

He always did.

Looking at the listeners submission list, this was submitted twice by two of our listeners.

So let's say, Oh yeah, came from Joe Patterson and Steve Carrey, So thank you guys.

One are the comments.

Let's see what Joe said.

Our buddy, Joe says, first track on their debut album, and it's a banger.

They're the perfect mix of hard rock and pop.

There we go, and then Steve says, deeply into the cups one evening, I came across this by accident.

I'm having a hard time reading this.

What the fuck is going on here?

This song is wild.

I got the impression everyone else must know it because it was so fucking good.

But that doesn't seem to be the case in my corner of the world.

The guitar player is a guy damn maniac.

Well there you haven't.

Wow.

So this was a new discovery for Steve.

That's pretty amazing to have a song this relatively well known to be just stumbled upon by it.

You know.

I'm also I'm sometimes jealous, like I couldn't imagine hearing it for the first time again, because I remember, like I said, I had the greatest hits in eighty nine.

I didn't hear it until then, and it's the first song on side too.

I flipped the tape over.

What is this?

You like this?

You know?

I liked them even more after that.

Yeah.

We talked about that a lot, the new discoveries, because there's a lot of stuff that you know, we haven't heard before or listeners haven't heard before, and we say the same thing.

It's like, Man, wouldn't it be great to go back in time and hear this for the first time again?

Yeah?

All right, well it's time.

Look where we found ourselves.

I got a question for you.

Paul Stanley wants to know if don't tell me you of Me is a rock and roll boner, as voted by the four rock and roll boners on today's show, Tim if you don't know what's going on here?

Basically, when we all give it a sweet surrender, this song makes it to the next round, which would be almost like Hall of Fame, like would we would we induct this as a classic?

Essentially instead of yes I liked it or no, I didn't like it.

We all liked it.

Does it get elevated to a classic?

That's the debate here, So think about it for a second.

I have a feeling I know where most of our answers are gonna go.

But we'll see.

You never know, We've had surprises here before.

Yeah, my vot'ess in?

So, Nick, is your vote in?

Yeah, my votes in?

Nix't vote is in.

My vote is in.

Don't tell us yet, Tim, But your is your vote in?

Don't tell us your answer?

But is it in?

Are you ready to Oh?

Sorry I missed.

I froze there for a second.

Oh, no problem, no problem.

We're all going to vote individually here to see if we elevate this song to the classic status we all we've all made our decisions, but we haven't shared them yet.

Was that match game style?

Is that the one that uh.

Yeah, you stick the little card and slot.

Yeah, your answers in.

Yep.

It's not merely classic status, Andy, it's rock and roll boner status.

Right, So let's to use the proper terminology.

Yeah, so Tim can take it.

No, he could take it.

Yeah, rock and roll boner is the term we came up with.

It's like the equivalent of food, boner or whatever.

Is it a rock and roll boner just.

As simply an equivalent of a boner.

Yeah, but yeah, in the context of rock and roll, does this get that status?

So Tim, let's go Tim Chris Nick and okay, Tim, if you want to start the voting, if you think this should be elevated to that round, you would say the word rock.

If not, you would say no boner.

So whenever you're ready, your choice is between those two phrases, rock and roll boner.

We did it.

We got one, guys.

Yeah, this has had to be right.

We'd be fools, we'd be fools to say no to that.

Be crazy.

No, I don't.

I don't think that's possible.

That's an impressive recording.

And and that's it.

That was the band's opening salvo.

Yeah, I mean that's that's that's something right there, first song on the first album, first video.

And it's not like everything went just went south from there.

They oh, no strength to strength, But it was just a powerful opening statement.

Oh, no question about it.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well, if you disagree with us, we are sorry.

It is Tim.

We want to thank you for joining us today.

But first, before we all go home and go to bed.

I'm sure it's very late there.

Tell us where people could find you.

Tell us where people can find your books.

Which one if people are picking one, which one should we get all of them?

Tell us what we should do.

Well.

I'll put on my best sales pitch here now.

Please.

Yeah, you can find my My YouTube channel is Tim's Vinyl Confessions.

I've been doing it for eleven years now, Tim's Vinyl Confessions dot Com.

We'll just take it on my YouTube page.

I'm on Facebook, I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram, all under that name, and all of my books are available through Amazon.

Whatever country you call home, just type in Tim Durling and my book should all come up.

I will say that since my Fleetwood Mac book came out, all of my previous books have been lowered in price.

So if you're I mean, if you're a fan of any like Yan T.

Kansas, Sammy Hagard, Night Ranger of Fleetwood Mac, you know, I think you will find something to like in each of those books.

If you're looking for just a good music book, something too.

If you've got somebody on your shopping list that's really hard to buy for and in quote unquote has everything.

Get them unspooled because they've never seen anything like it before.

And guys, thank you for giving me the opportunity to plug them here and this was a lot of fun.

Thank you really glad that you came on.

Yeah, great, great song choice.

And I'll second the I might just to get a physical copy of Spooled for the coffee table here because uh yeah, the writing and the research is excellent.

But pass along my props to your designer because it's visually it's just like, damn, this is these are good look and pages, you know.

And that's another thing about the other books.

Now the other books have color covers, but they don't have color you know, inner pages.

But the black and white comes out very very well.

And another thing is that most of the books, like the album covers and stuff, it's all from my collection.

So all right, oh that's cool.

So it's not just stuff you found.

The distinct majority of it.

If it's not my own pictures, it's indicated in the beginning of the book.

Other than that it's something I own.

That's very cool, awesome.

So if it's got some wear and tear, you see that on the image.

Oh yeah, you'll see the ring wear or the bubbling or yeah.

That's cool, yeah all righty well, thank you Tim, Thank you listeners.

We'll be back next week with more Pot of Thunder.

Please dele God to have you on our show.

Don't believe us when we tell you what to her.

I will never tell you.

When you told me.

I just feel like continue saying, you know,