Hello and welcome back to another episode of Culture Lit.

I'm your host, Octavia Marie, and today I am thrilled to welcome Monica McCullough, author of the Powerful Debut n Songs of Lost Things, Sonata for the Sun.

If you love books that are deeply emotional rich with family dynamics, self discovery, and powerful storytelling, then you are in.

Monica's debut novels.

Songs of lost things.

Sonata for the Sun is a breathtaking coming of age story that allows Lavender, a young girl with gifted musical mind, navigating love, loss, and the weight of her past.

This book had me completely hooked from the storytelling to the complex relationships, and let's not even get started on.

Monica weaves music into the fabric of the story in such a brilliant way, making it feel like an integral part of lavender's journey.

And Monica isn't just an incredible storyteller.

She's also a very talented visual artist who created the striking cover art for her book.

Today we'll explore the journey of her protagonist Lavender, discuss the themes of music, identity, and self-discovery that run through the novel, and getting insights into Monica's experience as an independent author.

So grab your tea, cozy up, and let's get into it.

Monica, we've been trying to get this interview done forever, so.

before I kind of get into the interview, let me just share a brief summary with the audience.

Songs have lost things.

For our listeners who haven't had the pleasure reading it yet, this novel follows lavender and musical gifted young girl whose life is upended when her father's plans to nurture her talent collide with her own desires to experience the typical adventures.

As a woman in her thirties who never kind of fully reconciled with her past lavender, meet someone who reminds her of everything she's lost and everything she surrendered.

And I think it's kind of like a beautifully crafted story around family identity and the courage to.

Maybe reclaim your authentic self.

So I guess for me, I wanna start with the beginning of your, like your journey writing songs of lost things.

It's such a powerful and layered debut.

Was the storytelling always something you wanted to pursue, or what was the moment when you knew you had to write this book?

well first I wanna say I'm glad to finally be here because Yes, it has.

It's been a while.

It's been a journey for both of us for various reasons.

Yes, exactly.

Yes.

but as far as the story, the beginnings of this story, I guess started with me all the way back in high school.

Kind of like this, Visual or this vision I had of this young girl or or young woman who just had all these musical gifts.

and what that looks, like when that's not, achieved or what causes that, what would cause someone to lose all of that, and not live up to, what you would think she would become with all of these gifts and creative abilities, that she possessed, like just like a gifted child.

So it kind of shaped from that just, You know, just someone who.

You would think had everything just, from a talent perspective should have achieved, if they weren't like a star in some aspect as far as entertainment, they still had the abilities to achieve a, a plethora of things, and they just did not, and what that looks like.

Okay.

From an internal and an external standpoint because I think that's what happens to us in real life anyway.

It's, it's both things.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so.

Right.

Yeah.

So that's really fascinating 'cause your novel explores like several.

Very powerful themes.

Um, and I think many of us can probably identify with one or more of these themes like addiction and family bonds and generational trauma and self-discovery Which theme emerged first in your writing process?

and then how did you kind of develop the other things around it?

I guess just,

I.

Family trauma because I feel like, you know, we're in this world and of the first obstacles that most of us face are family dynamics.

Mm-hmm.

Whatever that ends up being.

Mm-hmm.

And so, that's where it came from.

First, like, what would be the dynamics around this individual who When people saw her or heard her or just mind blown, and then they would look at her life and it just seemed like in shambles and kind of like, how, how did that come to be?

How did this person

end up this this way?

So, yeah.

So with that, I think you created such complex family dynamics in the novel.

Were there, like any particular characters who surprised you as you started writing and getting into the story?

Or is there someone who maybe took a larger role or developed in ways you hadn't initially planned?

I believe the aunt, Elizabeth,

You know, I don't know how much I'm supposed to spoil or give away or whatever, but

think a, a little spoiler is okay.

Okay.

She, to me.

Changed the most in a way.

And I know that may, if anyone has read it, it may seem like a long time coming or maybe she didn't.

from the outside perspective, it may not seem that way.

She was still kind of this.

Like caustic rigid individual, but mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

She, that was like an outer shell in a sense.

Really, when you look at how she began to approach lavender and, um, chase later in the story, you can kind of tell that she had softened a bit, but mm-hmm.

That was just an outer thing for her.

Yeah.

Um, and then some and, and, and some of that was mental health that she was also dealing with.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, she reminds me of.

A lot of people in my family, they kinda of rolled into main character.

Same.

And I, I was, as I was reading, I was like, mm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kind of rolled into,

kind of rolled into one character and I ended up highlighting in the book.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I really ended up kinda liking where she, ironically lavender ended up.

'cause you would never have thought that in a sense.

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

She was that, yeah, her, her arc, her, her character arc was I think I was more the most surprised by her character art.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's what you originally, originally asked.

Who surprised me?

The, the most?

I think it was, I think it was her, um, 'cause

she, that was her, it, it was her for me.

And so I was like, I wonder if, if she, like, did you mean to do or did it just evolve and that character involved into some, or did you intend for her to evolve like that when you started writing her?

I don't know how I, yes, but ironically, I was speaking with someone a couple weekends ago about characters, and this is kind of like, even as the author of the characters Surprise you because you know, you give them a personality and a background and you put 'em in certain scenarios and they react.

How they react.

I, I, mm-hmm.

I don't know how to explain it.

Like they kind of just react.

I get it.

Yeah.

They react how you would ex for them to react given the personality you gave them.

Um, but also it, it's a compilation of their life experience too.

All of that comes into it.

And then, They evolve into who this person is, even when, you know, you weren't even necessarily like writing it out in the outline, like, this is who she'll be.

No, she just kind of became that person.

So, yeah.

I get, yeah.

So you, you talked about earlier about lavender's, like her talents and, you know, she had so much going on her re lavender's relationship with her guitar, it, it kind of felt like.

There was like a representation of both, like maybe freedom and then the burden throughout the novel.

Yeah.

Was that

kind of duality intentional or, what did you intend for it to symbolize?

Yeah.

it's kind of like, I'll put to you, like, have you ever seen the movie, Good Will Hunting.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Is there anyone who hasn't seen this movie?

I dunno.

I, I, I had some family one time.

This is funny, I'm getting off topic.

Who said they never saw it?

They said they never saw it because they thought it was about a dog.

No lie.

I mean, they saw hunting, goodwill, hunting.

They was like, oh, this is about a dog, like they never saw.

I'm like, no, no.

That's hilarious.

it is, it's kinda like, I just think about people who are so naturally gifted in certain things and they're given so many things, um, in one particular area that.

Uh, they love it and it's free to them, but it's, it also can be constraining because then people put expectations on them surrounding this thing.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and that's kind of how, what happened to Will in that store.

But, you know, he, he also had his issues, right.

It, it, it is that, it's like, I love this thing.

I'm good at this thing.

I'm my most free at this thing.

But also when I do it, then it's like, oh, we expect you to do this and to do that.

And now it's, am I good enough to do you like she almost does not wanna be tested in that particular way.

Mm-hmm.

Because now she's expected to be this thing and you know, with her background and history, it's like, I don't even know if I'm worthy.

I.

Of, these accolades or whatever success would come with this.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I don't know if I'm deserving of it.

I don't know that I would know what to do with it if I had it because I've never had it.

Right.

You know, this positivity in my life.

So,

okay.

So the other thing.

there's so much in this book and some of the other elements that I kind of found very interesting is how you weaved music throughout the storytelling.

And I found myself like, oh yeah, that was the, okay, okay.

Is there a Spotify list?

But like each chapter.

Opens with a song title that kind of sets the tone.

So you have everything from Beyonce to Tupac to Ella Fitzgerald.

Can you walk me through like how you selected these songs and, and kinda what they represent?

Is it something personally that represented or was it specifically, supposed to represent something for lavender?

the songs kind of.

Summarize some of the chapters, summarize what that block of her life or that part of the story.

kind of felt like the feel of it.

Some of it is symbolic of kind of like, a particular song that was.

prevalent in that part of the story.

So maybe it doesn't represent that part of the narrative, but, it was played at an integral part.

of a band life or the stage, or her dad played it in the, in that part of the story.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So

it, it's like a mixture.

Of both of those things.

Some of it, at least a couple of them are a little kind of tongue and cheek when you know what the chapter is about.

I could kind of think about one chapter in particular where Rihanna is like the, the song at the beginning of it, that it references money.

Mm-hmm.

And, and the chapter does have money involved, but it's not like, You know, a significant role in it, but it does reference money.

So that was one of them that was kind of tongue in cheek, but most of it is just kinda like the vibe of that particular part of the narrative.

Yeah.

Okay.

In that moment and the feel of it.

Yeah.

'cause I found my Sometimes when I would see the song, I'd be like, okay.

And then I would go back after I read the chapter and be like, okay, wait, is, is there something I missed?

like, are there Easter eggs in this?

Right.

Find if, if I miss something because it's, it is just such a deep and like, and then I found myself like, because it's such a deep book and it covers so many powerful.

Subjects I found myself thinking, did I miss something?

Did I go back?

Okay, wait, did that mean something?

So I, I really liked how you weave the music into it also.

Um, and then some of the songs, not to interrupt you, but like some of the songs were kind like, I heard them at the time and they.

Inspire like an emotional or evoked an emotion mm-hmm.

In me that helped me write that particular part of the story.

So it it's all of that.

Yeah.

I'm wonder about that too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it's kind of part of, part of the, the songs became part of the story and also part of your process.

Right.

And I didn't want it to be, so I just wanted to, wanted it to feel kind of natural like that in a mixture of all those things.

Because I felt like if I sat down and was kind of like, I'm gonna put this song with this chapter and this song like it just felt too contrived.

So, yeah.

when I'm reading sometimes, um, especially when I read, stories that the settings.

are so vividly drawn.

I find myself feeling like, oh, like going back and maybe sometimes I'll research, I'll go back and look and I'm looking for, you know, it makes some, I might note something 'cause I wanna know if this exists so I can visit.

And, and so the settings in your book, you know, you have Newark.

And Montgomery, there's also some references to the Dakota are those, and it's so vivid when you, like, I can almost like see myself visiting these, these settings.

How much of your own experience informed the Saints, or Did you do heavy research to kind of bring them to life?

well, I'm from Montgomery, so describing Montgomery and being in Montgomery was just natural.

Like I know that, like the back of my head, I chose Newark because Newark is the, the second.

Place or location in the United States where a, a large chunk of my maternal family is just due to the, the great Oh, okay.

The Great migration or the first Great migration.

Yeah.

and so I wanted to tie that in.

My mom stayed there for a, a while, caretaking and all that type of stuff during the sixties, so That I had to research, um, and draw on.

'cause I have not been to Newark specifically, but I've been to, uh, I've been through New Jersey, I've been to New York and just.

Researching that and some of my own experience with just visiting and being up there briefly, I could, you know, describe Newark as best as I could, I hope.

Right.

And as, as, and as far as the, reservation, that was a lot of research trying to make sure that I did it justice.

And because that.

It is not part of my ethnic background at all.

So I wanted to very respect, respectful, right?

Mm-hmm.

And

research that thoroughly, um, and pay Hamas to that part of, you know, US history as well, that they're trying to erase.

Every day.

Mm-hmm.

Before, right.

Don't get

started on another rant.

Right.

So we could be here.

That's a whole nother

another episode.

Right.

And then that, that also was a part of kind of, um.

Uh, the second wave, the second great migration in a, in a sense.

Mm-hmm.

That's not, I don't think it's spoken about as much, but the, the black population in the south that moved out west.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that was the, the ultimate destination of one of the characters.

Joshua's father was to try to get out west from the, from the south, so.

Just trying to be respectful of all that history and all those locations and what they, they meant through time, so,

okay.

Okay.

Look at you.

So the theme in, song of Lost, I mean, it's lost things, whether it is like.

Like cultural identity, self-worth relationships, and it's very strong in this book.

And lavender struggles, I think with her self, her sense of self, and that, that I found incredibly moving.

how did you decide, like which aspects of loss and identity you wanted to highlight in her story?

I guess I.

In a sense, pull from my lack of.

Self-confidence in many areas or, imposter syndrome, but also just, oh, don't, don't get me started on that.

but also thinking about what that would look like when you add on top of that abandonment issues.

And also taking on vast portion of this book, she's like the responsible adult.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ironically.

And we have the parentification of Right children.

Right.

As irresponsible as she's portrayed and thought of by so many people in her life.

She was the one kind of holding a lot of stuff together.

And so just what that.

Feels like over time, constantly having to endure all that what what you think that you're deserving of what's worth.

Mm-hmm.

Even, trying to go after, because so much so you've been abandoned by so many things, so many people that, we're close to you that you loved and.

It's like, why try, in a sense, there's a sense of why try this thing, because it's easier to not try this thing.

It's easier to think that, right.

I'm the undeserving in this.

It's never gonna work.

And I know the place that I'm in now.

I know that, and I'm, I feel safety in that, so,

mm, yes.

Yes.

And, and then, and then there's her complicated relationship with her mother, which.

Like had me in shambles at times.

Really like, yes.

Like the tension between them felt so real and you know, I'm like, okay, don't get triggered.

Emotional walls, girl, emotional walls.

But it felt so real sometimes.

Like what was your approach in writing their dynamic?

Well, I will say that of all the.

narratives and themes in the book.

This might be, and not from a, a mother daughter dynamic, but this might be one of the things that's closer to something that I understand and it's because I have, a sibling who, had his issues and continues to actually, but just for decades of my life, in and out of those situations.

Constantly.

Like constantly.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And originally it was just kind of like it's one thing for it to be a sibling, but what is that like for it to be someone so close to you as a mother and how does that affect you?

For that to be your relationship.

Right.

For them to just never be able to, like get it together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm telling these, I, I was like, Ooh, let me highlight, let me come back there a couple of times I was like, Ooh, lemme put this down.

Let me come back to this.

Um, I have, yeah.

No, seriously.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now, at one point I thought this was going to be a romance novel.

But the story kind of takes like an unexpected turn into self-love and personal healing and that, and that can be in a love story.

You know, I'm all about reclamation of yourself and the self-love and all of, uh, uh, self love and healing also.

But I, I, I did, you know, so I was like, oh, okay, wait, we not going there.

What made you Takeda story in that direction instead of like the, the quote unquote traditional romance genre route?

Because I just didn't feel like Lavender was ready for that.

Okay.

Well, not me.

Lavender was not ready for that.

Yeah.

I, and I was like, are we gonna get there?

And I was like, okay, no, we gotta go.

So, but then that brings another, I don't want it set because that, that kind of brings it like, are we gonna get another book?

You know, maybe I, uh, this is my first.

Novel, like, you know, you in, in your introduction.

I am primarily a visual artist and have been visual artist all my life.

Uh, this story has been on my heart for a minute, but, um, you know, I don't know.

I, I'm kind of like learning as I go or feeling it as I go.

Okay.

There, there could be, I'll be honest that the second.

Idea I had for a story was not this or unrelated to this.

Okay.

So I just, I don't know.

I, the way I ended this story is kind of open, so Yeah, because I'm like,

I was like, is is she writing another one?

Because I, I feel like there's, like, she, it, like you said, it, it, it left so much open and I was.

Is there another book?

Because I, I'm flipping through the page like, is this it, are we done?

Right.

Um, but when you talk about also the love, I mean you talking about the romance and, but because I think we gotta talk about the love interest.

Mm-hmm.

There's Chris, the stable and emotionally available one.

Right.

And then there's Caesar, the chaos and the temptation.

I was like, woo, boy.

I was like, oh, she touching on all of it now.

Right.

What do you think kinda each of them represents in lavender's life?

Like, I, I have my thoughts, but what do you, what did you intend for them?

Or do they mean anything at all?

Or, is it just, you know, character driven or do they represent something in each part of her life?

Uh, they, they do.

Actually, I'll be interested in what you think, since you said you No, well, Chris, to me, is like an optimism.

Uh, potential, uh, a hopefulness or hopefulness of what could be if she released herself of like all these burdens that she had mentally and, and these chains she had from her past.

And Cesar is just.

You know, the status quo.

It's like what she knows is what she, she feels like she's deserving of.

You know, she shows up and, and she knows she can show up and do the Caesar thing all day long.

It'll be fine.

That could just go on forever.

Uh, you know.

Yeah.

So, so I kind of, I, I feel like, as I was reading it, Chris, for me, I think represented like.

I think what, what we all have some of the, the vulnerability we have in, um, accepting or the fear of accepting like the good stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Like, um, you know, we've had so much of the bad stuff and, and, and I, I said this recently, I don't know, I think I saw there was this, like this me, me, cute story trending on threads recently and.

the, the, the girl who was writing the threads was, you know, everybody was like, you know, why didn't you do, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8?

And I think, um, and you know, for a lot of us, we, we've been raised so in, to be so hyper independent mm-hmm.

That.

It becomes like this kinda self-protection thing.

And then we are so used to the disappointment and, you know, the, the chaos and temptation of Caesar that when something like the Chris shows up, we, we so used to that we, and so we saying, we're saying no to the good stuff because we're so used to the disappointment and the norm and saying no to that good feels.

Safer than taking a chance on Chris.

So I like, I felt like Chris represented like the chance of the good stuff.

Mm-hmm.

And Caesar represented, like you said, the status quo and, and it's what we're used to seeing and what we're used to protecting ourselves against.

Right.

Because there's no, there's really no threat, with Caesar and, and being hurt.

And if, and if he does.

do something that annoys you.

You really don't care because it's Caesar like, you know, it's like, I don't really care.

I don't have a lot of, yeah, I don't have a lot of stake in this, but mm-hmm.

It gets, it gets me alone.

Yeah.

Versus Chris, it's kind of like, wait a minute, like, mm-hmm.

I don't know this Chris situation, I haven't had this good stuff in a while and I don't want to commit in, in a way I don't wanna commit to it because then, That could fail and devastate me more than anything else.

I, yeah.

I, I kind of wanna keep my separation mm-hmm.

From it, you know?

Yeah.

That's, it was all that, and I, I think that's the, when I was thinking about, when I was thinking about the Chris and Caesar, it also, I.

Like saying no to Chris or whatever it feels like, control, like mm-hmm.

If you, if you say yes to it, it feels like you are trusting and you, and then, you know, trust is a whole different thing.

Right?

Because that's when it really gets tricky.

And then, you know, that's, you have to unlearn so much to be able to say yes and to that, but that feels like you, you, you're giving up the control.

But with Cesar.

You control that because you, you already know what that brings.

Right?

Yeah.

And, and you know, like I was saying, she just mentally at that stage was not ready for Chris.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, maybe later she, because she had, she

so much she has to unlearn.

Right,

right.

Yeah.

Did you always know.

How her romantic journey would end, or did that surprise you?

Did you always intend for that, the romantic journey to end like that?

Or were you surprised by it taking that?

I, I don't think I was surprised by it.

Um mm-hmm.

Because it just felt like, like I said, where she was in her life, she, she was not ready for that.

Um.

It, it just felt authentic to who she was or, you know, is at the time.

Um, I just wouldn't expect Lavender who was dealing with, with, still hadn't overcome a lot of stuff from her past, still dealing with things.

Um, definitely someone who needed therapy but had not, you know.

Mm-hmm.

Gone to therapy.

Mm-hmm.

I did not expect her to.

See Chris and, and go, oh yes, this is it.

I know this is what I'm deserving, and, and I'll fall into your arms and we'll be happily ever after.

And I, like, I just didn't see, and it wouldn't have been authentic,

I don't think.

Right, right.

I, it wouldn't have been authentic.

I didn't see her seeing him like that.

I, I would see her fearing what Chris.

With me or, or could be like, ho oh shit.

Like, oh, sorry, can we cross on here?

Yes.

Sorry.

Like

we're, we're, we're explicit.

Okay.

Like,

oh shit, I don't know what to do with this Chris thing, and I don't want it.

I want it, but I don't want it.

Like, this is too much responsibility in a, in a sense.

And I think we've all kind of been there, like, ooh.

Mm-hmm.

But again, that goes to that control and trust.

Aspect, and you have to be willing to be vulnerable.

And in order to do that, there is so much that lavender has to process.

And then unlearn.

She can't even unlearn it until she even processes what it is.

Right.

And it's the fear of success in a way too.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That fear of success, like, oh, if this works out, then this is, more of a demand on me to make sure this continues to work out.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I don't know if I can handle that pressure.

I don't want to handle that pressure.

So,

so let's pivot a little bit.

You, um, self-published this songs of Lost Things independently.

Which is incredible 'cause you that, I mean, that means you are responsible for everything.

What was that process?

I can't even imagine because self-publishing means you wear a lot of hats from writing, edit, design and marketing.

Like, what was that process like for you?

the publishing part of it?

Ironically was the easy part in a sense.

Mm-hmm.

Because, again, my background.

Is designer artist, so I didn't have to find a cover artist or mm-hmm.

Anybody to lay it out.

Did You're amazing artist.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, and I'm like,

can I have a print of that cover?

That's a beautiful cover.

Yes.

Yes.

so of course you can.

I, you know, I did all of that.

I.

Found an amazing editor, um, Christy Glasgow.

Um, look her up on Instagram and all the socials, but, um.

She did the editing for me.

She did the three stages of the editing, developmental, um, line copy, proofreading, and all of that.

so, you know, all of that is out of my, well, the editing part is definitely outta my pocket.

The, the design part was not so anybody self-publishing, you have to consider that you have to pay for the, the cover art you have to pay for at least.

Two rounds of editing, I would say, if you don't do three or four.

So, um, but with that expense and everything, yes, it is.

I control it.

I, I, mm-hmm.

I'm also in control of the marketing and the marketing part is the most challenging part.

Is that

the, I was gonna say, is that the most challenge?

It, it has to be,

yes.

The publishing was easy.

You know, I'm not gonna say that's easy for everybody, but that part was pretty easy For me, the marketing is, is more difficult just simply because, there's so much Noise.

And I'm not saying noise in a negative way, but it's just so much noise everywhere out there is, is you know that you have to be present on this platform and that platform, and you need to be buying ads to run here and there, and you need to go to this event and you need to post multiple times a day on several platforms and yada, yada, yada.

And you can do all of that.

And still not.

While life is

life and then you still have to work and do right.

And you still work your full-time thing and life, life, right?

You still have to work, you still have your, your personal things going on, which, uh, was happening with me, I would say right at the, the peak of when I needed to be marketing.

Um, and that, that kind of slowed me down on a lot of stuff and yeah, you know.

You could do all of those things and still not.

Get a lot of traction because mm-hmm.

There's so much noise and then algorithms change on you.

Like, you know, at, at one point it's, oh, post reels, that's what you need.

And then you, you put all this energy into, into reels, and then it's carousels.

Yes.

And then it's, now it's characters YouTube, and now it's threads and it is just.

A lot it, the marketing part was most definitely, and it continues to be the most difficult part for me, to the point where I just, I'm not saying that.

I have not given up on marketing for, for the people who would be listening.

I have not given up on marketing, but as far as trying to do all the things that I just listed, mm-hmm.

I just could not, I could not, because again, going back to when I was like at the peak of when I should have been marketing a lot of, or doing all the things, I had some personal stuff going on with my, with my mom and health stuff, with myself and with her, and I just literally could not, and I was.

Tired.

And so yeah.

Now I'm just kind of, you get what you get at this point.

You get what you get.

Yeah,

and that's what I, and that's what a lot of, you know, as you know, my background is really in pr.

Mm-hmm.

But, but that's what I tell people is that.

Especially starting out, you can do stuff your, you know, yourself.

You don't necessarily have to hire these big machines, but the key is focusing on one or two of the things because you can't do all the things you overwhelm yourself trying to do.

All the things, but focus on, you know, where, where's your story, you know, going to get the most traction.

Where is your, where's your ideal people?

Where is your community?

Right?

And then that's what you focus on.

Um, because you can't, it, it's like you said, it's so much out there that, and it's so much noise.

Go where your, tribe is and focus there.

I'm not giving on that tickety talk.

It's just like, I don't, I don't, it's not for me.

And I understand that's not for me because I can, you know, I can do a carousel, I can do the writing, I can do this, and I can, I can, you know, edit a reel.

But I think, but for TikTok works a lot better.

It, it's, it's a real authentic thing.

So when you're.

Like live as you go it.

It doesn't work for like curated film preed.

That's not really necessarily, I.

For TikTok, but it

mm-hmm.

it is just a lot.

And I was like, focus on like, you know, one or two your best.

Where you to get the most traction, where you getting the most community support from?

Then focus on that, and that's where you focus your energies on if, is it reals or is it carousels or is it stories?

Because I personally think, and it just depends on what you're trying to do.

Um, with your audience.

But see, I done went on a rant here,

like, but no, no, I'm, I'm listening because obviously I, I still need this.

I do not, I don't have the, the, the following that I wish I had, because again, I'm just starting, so I'm listening and I'm still trying to learn this as I go.

As someone who.

Again, as a designer, mostly a designer and a visual artist.

I was a behind kid offline.

Right.

I was behind the scenes little strategy offline.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm behind the camera.

Behind the scenes type person.

Yeah.

So being out front, I, I just, you know, and see

that means, TikTok and reels might not be your lane, right.

Your lane may be carousels and the written part of it and, and, and, and it could be, um, the stories part of it and, you know, maybe threads and the, the, the writing aspect of it.

'cause you are really, like, you are, you are funny online.

So I.

For you then it might not be, but TikTok and reels might not be, and reels can be your thing, but you, it has to, it has to be just done in a different way.

you know, different styles work for different people, so you focus on what works for you and where you're comfortable and then you make it work for you that way instead of trying to do what everybody else is doing.

And, but you do it in a way that makes sense for you.

You know.

Right.

We're the same that way, I think.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

And I know, I know we gotta move on.

But I was gonna say to, uh, new indie authors, That's just coming along the, the funniest thing about TikTok and reels and stuff.

And that's why I was just kinda like, you know what?

I gotta, I just gotta be Authentic and be me and hope the right, define me.

Mm-hmm.

Is that exactly most of my engagement?

And not that I did a ton of videos like this, uh, but most of my engagement on, on a specific video would come when I'm doing something trendy.

Like, is there's a trendy song that everybody's using or some, uh, trend or, or.

Not dance.

'cause I didn't really do dances like that, but I would try to tie it into my book.

Mm-hmm.

But that's when I would, or, or I would get the most engagement when it was something like that and it was unrelated to my book.

And then you would do something with your book, like a video like that would have, you know, a.

Thousands of views and then you do something in your book and it's like 50 views and like it's kind of, I don't want new people to be discouraged because that's the experience of all of us.

Like, um, when you hear indie office talking on TikTok or Instagram or wherever, that's what we all experience.

We get the most engagement where we're doing.

The random thing that's trending.

Mm-hmm.

And then we were like, Hey, I'm glad you're here.

Come look at this book real quick.

And it's like 50 views.

And like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

So anyway.

before we wrap up, I wanted to do like a quick lightning round.

And you just answer what the question that comes to your mind.

Okay.

What song would be the theme music for your writing process?

Ooh.

You like, you got this music, you said the writing, sometimes was, inspired by the music.

So like, what's your theme?

Music.

Hmm.

I don't know if I have one particular song, but it would have to be almost anything from I.

The Curtis Mayfield catalog.

Okay.

Okay.

Yes.

Almost anything.

I expected that from you knowing like some of your music tastes of seeing what you've talked about.

I, that one, that was a shocker for me.

Yeah.

Like that man was a musical genius and he's not spoken about enough, in my opinion.

I agree.

I agree.

Yeah, it's, it's timeless.

So anything.

It could be, it sounds futuristic, it sounds from the past, it sounds modern, it sounds all of that.

So it can represent so many things.

Agreed.

Yeah.

what character from your book would you most want to have dinner with?

Well, from a, a very vain standpoint or shallow standpoint, I would wanna have, I would wanna have dinner with Chris just so I can look at him.

'cause the way I described him, that man was fine.

Do we, Chris, like, is he inspired?

Right?

Was Chris inspired, was he completely made up or was Chris inspired?

I was like, is Chris my new?

Or was

he just made up?

an amalgamation of, of, several people.

you know, there's some people that follow on Instagram and I was like, Hmm, you know what?

I could see that.

So, I

guess probably, probably, maybe Catherine, honestly, really?

Mm-hmm.

Just, I just would wanna get her, because we get lavender's perspective throughout the book, you know?

mm-hmm.

It's, it's mostly written from her perspective, but I would, I would really wanna know what Katherine was feeling throughout this time and.

why was difficult or I kind of explained why it was difficult, for her to kind of get over that hump, but mm-hmm.

What eventually drew her out of it?

you know, after so much time.

Okay.

That

and how did she,

yeah.

How to see,

I can see that.

Wanna move forward?

Yeah.

what book do you wish you could read again for the first time?

Hmm, probably, if it's

not, and I hadn't read this in a long time, but if it's not things fall apart, it's It's probably home going.

Two, that's still one of my favorite books.

And it's, another story that spans mm-hmm.

A massive amount of time, like, you know, mine is just roughly 20 years or so, you're talking here centuries, and she just does an amazing job of, I feel like you're in each character's shoes, even though you only spend a chapter with them.

coffee, tea or something else when you're writing.

Ooh.

You be drinking a brown liquor when you rain?

No, because I need a, I need a clear head.

as far as that goes, as far as that might, you know, dip into some, some other shrooms or something else to open my mind a fusion or of a beverage, but, uh Okay.

You with the functional Yeah.

Some tea.

Yeah, some tea or, or maybe a little, uh.

You know, lion Mane.

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Okay.

You know?

Yeah.

I'm a

functional, I'm a functional drinker herb too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm all with that.

For creative work, early bird or night owl,

most of my ideas come to me very, very late, like night out.

Mm-hmm.

Um, the ideas.

But as far as

I think, I think

most

creatives are like that though.

Yeah.

As far as getting them out in a, in a clear manner.

I found surprisingly to me, that that was early in, like before noon.

Okay.

'cause after that girl, that's not early birth.

Well, no.

Well, I mean, I'm just, I'm just saying like, I, Definitely before 10:00 AM but most certainly before noon at the latest.

Okay.

'cause anything afternoon, I'm just like, no.

It's not working.

Yeah.

Well,

Monica, thank you so much for this insightful conversation.

We've been trying to get this scheduled for.

I'm glad I finally got able to, was able to talk to you about it.

I had so many things.

I was just writing notes as I was.

I'm, I'm one of those crazy people that when I get to read a book like this, I'm writing notes in the, in the, and I had to go to prepare for this, and I'm going back to the, the notes in my book, like, oh wait, a.

So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Your journey as both a creative storyteller and and visual artist and independent artist is very inspiring.

I was like, am I gonna write a my book finally?

Yeah, do it.

You totally.

I was like, ah, just watching you go through this part.

I was like, uh.

But it's been truly inspiring, just watching you kind of.

Like it all come together and then finally see the, the finished product was so amazing.

thank you.

But before we go, please remind us where we can find songs of Lost Things, Sonata for the Sun, and how they can't connect with you online.

Okay, well, my book is on Amazon, but I know how we're feeling about Amazon right now, so, uh, you know,

it's still supporting.

I hate it.

Um, I, I, I, well, let me first say, I know yours is on Amazon, but I have also, it's also available on bookshop, on my website org, on your website.

For independent, independent author and bookstore, give the people your website.

Yes, it is monica mccullough.com and that's M-O-N-I-C-A-M-C-C-O-L-L-O-U-G-H.

Uh, you know, a lot of people put that u in, there's different ways you spell it, but it's with an o mccullough.com and if you get the book through my website, um, it'll be signed and have a signed copy, and plus you can sign up for, you know, news and newsletters.

I do not sign.

Sign, uh, send out a bunch of emails.

You do not have to worry about that.

Uh, but when I have news, you will be the first to know.

You can also find me on Instagram.

I am, I'm definitely there at Moni.

That's MONI, shy writer, S-H-Y-W-R-I-T-E-R.

Um, Instagram mony shy writer on threads, obviously under the same, um, name and.

Uh, I'm on the.

You know, trying to figure out what I'm gonna do on the TikTok, but I am on v um, and it's Monie do shy writer, I believe.

So it's either Mony, shy writer, or Monie do shy writer.

But Monie Shy Rider is what I usually use on social medias to, to try to get my stuff out there.

I'll link and I'll link everything.

Everything will be linked, is linked in the notes, um, where you can.

Purchase.

I highly recommend that you pick up a copy of songs of Lost Things, Sonata for the Sun.

It's beautifully written.

It's emotionally resonant story that will stay with you long after you've turned the final page.

This has been the Culture Lit Podcast.

I'm Octavia, and we'll be back next week with another conversation about the books that move us and the stories behind them.

Until then, keep reading, keep reflecting, and keep celebrating the power of literature.

Bye