hi and welcome to Culture Lit, the podcast where black love stories, black romance and black authors take center stage.

I'm your host, Octavia Marie, and today we have a very special guest, USA today, bestselling author, podcast host, and your favorite romance author's.

Favorite romance author Danielle Allen.

Danielle Wild Readers last year with Kirby Girl Summer.

This was her first traditionally published novel.

Now she's back with plus size player and Nina's story.

Nina is confident she's sexy.

There are some laugh out loud moments in this book.

And features one of, I think one of the most, self-possessed main characters that I've read in a long time.

we'll be talking about, representation, modern dating and the toxic sludge that is out there, this modest dating world.

And, uh, I was like, okay, I don't know what's going on, but there is toxic sledge in the dating pool right now.

and the reality of being a plus size black woman in romance.

And so, oh, also.

That helicopter scene, I was like, oh, I dunno if I'm ready for this.

so Danielle, welcome to Cultural Lit.

I'm really excited to have you here.

Thank you so much.

I loved, loved that intro.

I appreciate that so, so much.

So, but thank you for having me.

I try to do that.

I, I tried to give us some, some razzle dazzle coming in there that you thank you.

Thank you.

So for those kind of just meeting you for the first time, I don't know how that's possible.

now I will say, you were on my TBR list forever.

And you have like such an extensive catalog.

and I knew there were a couple of books that had been floating around there from Danielle Allen and I was like, oh, I wanna put that on my, it's on my TBR list.

And then last year, curvy Girl Summer was everywhere.

So Curvy Girl Summer is the first book I've actually read of you.

I've known of you and I, I just hadn't gotta to your books.

And so after Kirby Girl Summer, I immediately was like, hit your back catalog.

but for the listeners or the kind of just meeting you for the first time, how would you describe the kind of stories you write?

Oh, so.

Everything I write, I always say that you never know what you're gonna get with a Danielle Allen story.

Like you'll know it's good, you know it's gonna have spice, but like it could be anything because I write the story that comes to me like, I don't know, I don't know what the trends are.

I don't know what's, like right now I can only write what like the characters are speaking to me, the story that's coming to me.

And so it could be something that is more rom comish, like Kirby Girl Summer, and I guess plus size player, like Zola stories.

then I had the hot holiday hookups, which are short, sexy, like quick little bites.

quick little novellas.

Then there's the egg island Poe inspired ones.

The women of V there's the, broken clocks, which is an, uh, fictional, don't get me started on broken clocks.

It's romantic fiction.

I won't say it's not romance, summer after I read Kirby or Summer, I was like, okay.

I immediately hit like the back catalog.

So like the first one I read was, I think, gray Sweat.

What, what is the Gray Sweats?

One season, sweatpants season?

And then it was like cuffing season.

Mm-hmm.

And so then after that I was like, I was in it, I was like, oh, these were spicy too, and then I gotta broken clocks.

And I was like, I'm like, oh, this is one's gonna be different.

And then at the end I was like.

I think I'm, I have to break.

I had to take, I was like, I have to put her down now.

I was so hardworking.

I was like, what is this?

I was like, and I wasn't looking through pages and I'm like, did, is there some?

I was like, no, there's gotta be an update.

Like, am I missing pages?

Uh, I'm still like, I was like, do I have to break up with Danielle?

Listen, you are not the first person to have said that.

The thing is, is that there is a lesson in everything that I write.

Yeah.

And that one, the particular lesson was to live life to the fullest.

Mm-hmm.

To not put your life on hold for anything.

'cause tomorrow's not promised to any of us.

And so, just like in sweatpants season, the, the lesson was like, do we objectify men?

Sure, but not to the degree that they objectify women.

And so when you look at the discrepancy, men wouldn't be able to handle if they were objectified the way that we are.

And so that was the, so there's always a lesson and a message.

And so I felt like that story, that was how I wanted people to walk away and like reevaluate their lives and how they were living.

And so, a number of people have said that about that story.

And so I got that.

and it, it resonated.

It resonated with me.

So, because I had just, think when I read that last year, I was probably one year post chemo radiation.

I had been through diagnosed with cancer in 2022, colorectal cancer.

And then, so 2023 for me was, kind of, I was healing and a lot was going on.

And so you are like, you know, when you go through something like that, you start looking at and reeva evaluating and that's exactly what I got out of it.

But I was just like, and so, um, I I, I think when you go through something like that anyway, you, you, you tend to kind of re you know, just look at your life and, you know, look at doing things differently.

And hence I'm in Mexico for, and it was like, I'm gonna stay a little longer.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So I was like, you know, I, I come from a career from, you know, 20 plus years in.

PR and, started this podcast, one Black Romance got me through, all of that.

you know, during chemo, I'm reading, that's all I read.

I didn't want to watch, I wanted nothing but vibes.

And so I was, you know, I been a Black romance reader.

I started out years and years ago.

I used to do copy editing for Black Romance books, like right outta college.

So this was like very early on.

Um, started like with, uh, Abe Books, BET books way, way, way, way, way back.

But romance has always been kind of just like a part of my adult life.

Um, and I think one of the first books I read, black Romance Books was, you know, I was probably 14, 15, and I'm about to date myself right here.

and it was a book.

My mom had The Texas Rose or the yellow, the yellow Roses of Texas or something like that.

and it was like the first time that I had seen black women and black men.

This one was a historical romance, but still just like, uh, us.

And so one of the things about you that I find, so like your stories is the language, the conversation, and How they talk to each other.

And I was like, yeah, and you know, it, it's relatable, it's authentic.

And I'm like, yeah, the dialogue is so like, it, it feels like I'm talking to my girls or it feels like a conversation I've had with a guy, or just the interaction with them.

It's, it's, it was easy.

So that's what I liked about Nina and Russell and plus-size player.

their conversation, their, their interactions.

It was just all very easy.

there was no struggle.

how do you go into writing the Such sharp and witty dialogue.

Thank, well first thank you so much.

so because my background is in counseling, I'm very, very.

In tune with how one should communicate and I love to communicate in general, and I think it's such a important and powerful way to like not just get to know the characters, like mm-hmm.

Through their dialogue.

You get to know who they are, but also bringing the characters closer together.

And so, it's always been important to me and like some people don't like dialogue heavy.

Stories.

And, and that's okay too.

But like for me, I'm always going to write like heavy dialogue because I think that it is such an important, I feel like we need to do more talking in real life.

And so I feel like the characters communicate and for the most part communicate well and then Yes.

See them grow from there.

And I'm fascinated with that because, um, when I read that, that you were, uh, life coach you can see that shining through in the characters, their emotional intelligence.

Like there's no misunderstanding, there's no miscommunication.

They, like you said, they communicate well.

and so I, I.

your experience in, in that dialogue.

It shapes the way clearly that you approach romance.

I even saw it with, Kirby Girl Summer and I was just like, everybody's emotionally mature.

I loved it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I think it's so important to have conversations even when they're hard and I think that we as people don't do that like we should.

Yeah.

And if I can show how the conversations could go, hopefully that would inspire someone to be able to tell somebody what it is that they want instead of being upset that they're not getting what they want out of the relationship, but never saying what it is that they want.

There's that disconnect and it's like, well, they should know, but it's like everybody wants something different.

So like that person, I mean, there's some things like lying and cheating.

Yes.

You should know that you should not do that.

Outside of that though, the particular needs that you have, if you don't communicate that to someone, how are they supposed to know?

And so I like always hope that someone sees an interaction and if they identify with it and relate to it or are experiencing it, they then are like, okay, maybe this is how I can approach this with my person.

Right.

cause sometimes, people are like, oh, you re romance.

Hell yeah.

Because, I think, you know, especially now the, the way romance is, you know, it's constantly evolving and we're getting new.

Black authors and people that, you know, different relationships and things, and so they're so authentic, so real.

Like I looked at their characters.

I was like, I could see all of, because the date, the dates from Kirby Girl Summer, and I was like, was somebody in my, because I have, I was like, at least two of those experiences.

I was like, okay, so we've all had these experiences.

Yes.

Like the married man.

And I'm like, yes.

Like, okay, wait, is that your wife?

Like what?

I was in a grocery store once and I walked in the grocery store and I saw this guy or him and a girl walk in in front of me.

So I'd seen them.

what caught my attention is the shoes she had on.

I was like, Ooh, those cute.

Her shoes were cute.

and so, I had, you know, passed him in, passed them in the grocery store, and then probably about five minutes in the grocery store, he comes down my aisle and I saw him and I just, you know, kept going.

And he stops and he says something to me, and I looked at him and he's like, you know, I just had to, you know, stop and you're so beautiful and blah, blah.

I said, oh, thank you.

And I just, you know, kept it moving.

And he was like, you know, I'd love to know take.

And I thought, and I looked at him and I said, are you dead ass?

It was like, and I said, what about the wife?

You walked in, you know, I saw the ring and I'm, you gotta, you literally have a ring on your finger right now.

You walked in here with her.

Are you dead ass trying to pick somebody up in the grocery store with your wife?

Two aisles over?

That is wild.

But it's the audacity, the, it's the audacity.

And like one of the things that I wanted people to see with Aaliyah's date was that it's not, because some people personalize those experiences and it's like, what is it about me that makes him like a married man think that I would be okay with that?

What is it about me that they, that a man thinks that X, Y, and Z and then they don't talk about it, right?

And so then it feels like, oh, this is only happening to me.

And I wanted people to see that like, no, this is happening because they don't know how to act like those particular individuals.

It has nothing to do with anything that you're putting out or projecting.

This is the ones who would lie about.

Not being married when they are married, they are gonna do that regardless.

It does not matter that Yeah, for sure.

Whether that you are confident, it don't.

It doesn't matter if you're big or small, tall or short, your race, like if someone is committed to lying about their relationship status, they're gonna do it and so like it hopefully will take the personalization out of it so that people aren't feeling like, oh man, I'm doing something to attract this type of energy or this type of behavior.

It's like, no, it's not you.

No, there's just toxic sludge in the dating pool.

But I absolutely loved Russ.

He was like, and I'm like, oh, that, that's, that's refreshing.

And, and it gives you, you know, like you said, it shows women that no, there's, yes, there's this out there, but there's also this out there.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

There are, um, amazing men out there.

There are so many amazing men too.

And I think that sometimes, because if you run into a not so great men, and then you run into another one, then you start to feel like, oh wait a minute.

But they're out there too, is just, you know, you gotta keep your eyes peopled and like, protect yourself from the ones who, who are giving you bad vibes.

And then Exactly.

Like give all your good energy to the, to all the good ones out there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I've been waiting on Nina's story.

The reader, listeners may not know.

Uh, Nina is Aaliyah's best friend from Kirby Girl Summer.

This is now book two in your curve series.

Right.

And Nina is Aaliyah's best friend.

We got a little bit of Nina and her shenanigans in the first book and, and their, their relationship.

And then there's a third Jasmine and Jasmine is coming.

Um, we got a little glimpse to Jasmine what's going on her towards the end of plus size player.

Yeah.

What inspired Nina Sori?

Like I said, she's like, she's a character that I was like, yes.

Um, she is just, you know, confident.

There's no, you know, she wants to change or she's on some type of self decept.

She is like immediately like, oh, she's that girl.

Like, and she knows she's that girl and always been that girl.

That girl.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yes.

So with Aaliyah, she is confident, but like her, she was hesitant about dating.

Mm-hmm.

She wanted to be in a relationship.

She wasn't confident in the dating space.

Mm-hmm.

She was confident about who she was, what she looked like.

It was just like, oh, I'm not trying to go on all these dates.

And Nina was like, well, why not?

Like, you need, like, be out there and if you were trying to find, looking for, because I'm, I'm finding what I'm looking for and it's spread over these four men.

And so Nina though is not only confident in who she is, she is confident in like her system.

Right.

The thing that throws her off her like confidence a little bit is the fact that this one man is showing up and showing out in a way that she's like, wait a minute, I didn't know.

Like, because she is committed to the idea, like she sees what true love and true romance looks like at home with her parents.

Mm-hmm.

And parents have always instilled in her like, no, you don't settle for anything less than this, like date around, date as many men as you need to.

You do not settle because you are that girl.

So like, she has always had that energy and she's been supported and loved and also has seen love.

So it wasn't coming from a, a traumatic place like, oh, I was, I was done wrong, so I'm never gonna like settle down.

She just felt like in order for me to have the best quality experience while dating.

I'm going to like, relieve the pressure off of these men and let them do what they're good at.

Right.

And I have a box for each of them to check.

And they can, they can do that.

and you know, Jasmine is also confident, but she is divorced and not looking for love at all.

And so all three of them have completely different takes on romance and love, but they are all confident women who are navigating life in a bigger body with their natural hair and their brown skin.

And I feel like that, I knew that for my first traditional titles, I wanted to tell these stories.

I wanted it to be, and I like, when I pitched it, it was that Aaliyah's was a slow burn.

Because that's who Aaliyah is as a person, like right?

She's not going to make any moves with men that don't qualify.

And with Nina, she is, you see her on her dates with these different men and you can see why she would like each of the men that she's with.

But you can also see why the one who caught her eye catches her eye and so baby.

Okay.

And so then with Jasmine, that story is different than the other two because you know that she's going through some things in her hometown, like, you know, that like stuff is going on with her aunt.

And so her story is different, but like still valid and valuable and like necessary to this whole universe because there are some people who are.

Very confident in who they are and what they're looking for, but they are apprehensive about the act of dating.

And I feel like that's where a, a number of people fall.

Nina is more where we aspire to be, where it's like she is confident and not only who she is, but what she wants and like how she gonna get there and all of that.

And so she moves through the world in that way and she moves through men in that way too.

And then Jasmine is very confident in who she is, but like post divorce, she's just like, oh no, I'm, I'm good off that.

Like I'm good.

I, I would like some, dick would be nice, but like I'm completely okay with, chilling.

And so like, they all have different perspectives and I just felt like.

In the traditional space, in the indie space, there are so many amazing books with fat black heroines.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Doing their thing.

But in the traditional space, I can't think of any where their fat black with natural hair and their story isn't like revolving around, losing weight or like getting fit for the like.

So it just means that I, I can't think of any.

And so that's why it was important for me to, to write and tell these stories.

Yeah.

And that's, that's why I, I think with Curvy Girl Summer, it was such a resounding success that because so many of us got it.

And you know, like you said, usually there's some, some breakup that causes some, you know, or somebody said something or there's somebody, you know, there's always some, you know, I'm searching, I'm self discovery, learning to love yourself, kind of always going around.

But here's someone who's like, I'm, I'm cool with who I am.

And there's nothing that, you know, throughout the book, she's not trying to change herself.

Yeah.

And that's what I love.

And, and so I like that about Now in Kirby Girl Summer, I wanted to throw Punch Aaliyah's.

Is it uncle?

I punch the uncle.

But you know, even that was still, she didn't let that.

You know, any other book, you, you, you know, that would've been some huge emotional something.

She was just like, look, you know, I liked you.

She had her boundaries and she understood who she was and she, you know, and one, yeah, you're my family, but also we not gonna do this.

Okay.

And she had things to say in her head, but she also is the type that like, okay, I'm trying to respect my elders, but you pushing me.

But like, she wasn't saying it to him like he needed to hear it.

But I think that like, there are an, because if Nina was in that situation, Nina would've, would've said something because we all handle things differently.

Right?

And so, and she kind of did have, uh, it didn't come from family, it came from, in little shade comments from, someone who, you know, who would come up to her in a bar or who was supposed to be her coworker, but she immediately shut it down.

Exactly like it because the thing is, fat phobias is always constantly happening.

Yeah.

So like all of them experience it because I don't know another fat woman who has not experienced it.

And so like even whether it's like super direct, like Uncle Al's, if it's like shady, like the stuff that Nina dealt with, if it's like a whole thing, like some stuff that Jasmine dealt with, it happens regardless of, and so it would not be true to who they are.

If it didn't happen in the book and you saw it and then saw how, for none of them, like none of them, it did not change how they felt about themselves.

It did not like, it was just like, oh, I'm gonna check it because, like, why are you talking to me like that?

Or I like, I'm gonna call it out because why are you talking to me like that?

But it never, nobody, none of them went back home and cried about it and was like, oh my goodness.

Like I am, I am too fat to have this gorgeous man who is, who wants me.

I gotta lose, you know, 50 pounds in two weeks.

Right?

Like it, like it was never giving that.

And so that's what I wanted people to see also that like, people are gonna say like whatever they wanna say, and it sucks because people are not nice all the time, but.

It can hurt your feelings, but don't let it change how you feel about yourself.

Don't let it exactly negatively impact your self worth.

It can be like, man, why did they say that?

That hurt my feelings carrying on.

Because it should not have a bearing on how you feel about you.

Exactly.

And you know, I kind of have said this a little bit already, but again, I love that Nina wasn't looking to be fixed or changed.

she wasn't on some journey or trying to shrink herself to fit into, some, box that they wanna, you know, put us in sometimes.

why was it so important to you to center like her pleasure, her power, even the playfulness between her and Russ?

in her arc.

And like you said though, the three in the cur series are so very different.

but there's a power in, Nina.

And also, it's kind of a two-parter here, because also too many podcast bros have mics.

but it's always something about, black women are too this, or, you know, relationships aren't working, is this whole conversation.

But the, the other thing that I liked about Russ is that he recognized who she was.

There was nothing he was trying to change about her.

he was into her because of exactly that.

And he wasn't trying to, you know, he knew that she had, she, like he said, you know, there was a part he said, I knew immediately, again, she was that girl and he wasn't, it wasn't something that he tried to change about her or wanted to fit her into this, you know, these relationships where it's not a partnership.

It's, you know, you are trying to force someone into some type of submission.

And I was like, okay, if that's what you looking for, then go find that girl who is into that.

Stop trying to put a woman who is, you know, aina into that role.

That's that's not who she's, if that's who you want, then go find her.

Go find that woman that is her and stop trying to put, you know, force women into this, this role that you feel necessary in order for the relationship or partnership to work.

And I like that.

He, that's what he liked about her.

Yes.

He loved her down.

And I feel like, I mean, but honestly, they all did.

Like they all would have, like if she would've picked them like they was trying to get chose.

And she, and I love that part, that aspect of it.

Okay.

And so like they were willing to accept whatever she was willing to get.

And just important because I feel like there are a number of fat women who got it like that and are moving like that.

And I feel like that's not highlighted in our society.

It's whenever you see fat women depicted, it typically is like she's the sassy best friend, or she is like a homely, like already settled down Mary type, like to the side.

Um, but not like just embracing who she is.

What's she's about?

How she is that girl.

Like just not embracing her power, her pleasure, her essence, her wants, her, needs her desires.

And I feel like why not?

'cause we're deserving too.

Exactly.

We're deserving of all of that.

So I wanted to showcase someone who not only knew it, but was walking in, standing on it, and walking in it.

And I feel like she embodies like what a lot of people the dating space would enjoy.

Because it's like, even if you don't want a roster of men, but knowing your worth in every situation.

'cause it wasn't who she is as a person, it's How she handles business, how she handles her work life, uh, being out and about with the men that she deals with, just her moving in that confidence in that power.

I felt like it was important for not only other fat women to see, for all people to see because it shouldn't be like, oh my gosh, this is rare.

Like, because in my life I know plenty of fat women who not only play, are out here being a boss and doing what they want to do and living life on their terms.

And so it's just being able to bring that to the forefront makes me happy because I feel like other, Other fat women knew.

I feel like everybody else needed to know also that like, no, we move like this too.

Like, it's completely okay for us to stand in our power and to honor what it is that we want and our pleasure.

Yeah, abso absolutely.

And speaking of pleasure, nice little segue there.

I don't wanna spoil too much.

I wanna leave a little, little suspense out there.

Yes, please.

But can we talk about the helicopter scene?

I was like, oh, we gonna kick it off at the beginning.

I said, oh, this is gonna be a good, that scene was hot.

And I was like, oh.

so.

And you can write a hot scene that is a believable hot scene.

You, I was like, oh, okay, wait a minute.

I'm gonna gimme a little ice here.

You know, I was like, is that my hot flashes or what's going on here?

How do you approach writing these scenes that are, cause I was like, wait, what did he say?

So they're like, they heated them, but also it doesn't sound like it's just, you know, thrown in there for the sake of throwing it in there.

and it, you know, there's an emotional resonance with it.

It all kind of aligns and you're like, okay, this is her favorite.

He gotta be.

Yeah.

Like, and he was like, I feel like Russ is a good man.

Okay.

And, and a good man.

Savannah a good man.

Savannah.

But to be fair, the other ones were good too.

But for Nina, for Nina, Russ.

So when it Rus Rus Russ, when it started sitting in my head, like I saw it play out and it felt very much like how, that's just how they have always gotten down.

Because when we meet Russ, they've already had eight dates.

They've been kicking it all summer for a few months.

Yeah.

So they, they met at the top of June at a party and I.

So we're meeting them at date nine and their chemistry is and has always been like that.

And so because I don't wanna spoil anything at all.

Yeah.

It's like, just wait to see chapter And it comes early.

It comes early chapter two.

'cause I feel like how any experience that they have, their chemistry just is like that when they're together.

So that's how it came about.

Is that, is that all imagination or?

I've never been on a helicopter.

I'll say that.

I've never been on a helicopter.

Are we in the mile high club though?

I've never been on a helicopter.

And so like, I dunno, like, like that is a, and when it came in my head, I felt like cause Nina loved the sky.

Mm-hmm.

And so for an experience to happen and it's like, oh, I'm seeing stars in all, all the ways I can see stars in all the things and all the ways.

I'm gonna leave it at that.

I'm, I'm gonna leave it at that.

now I also really loved the cover.

I'm, I'm not sure where I am with all of, uh, sometimes these, the cartoony looking, I can leave it, but your cover, it, it almost was more like, it, it didn't feel cartoony.

It was almost like a, a, a painting of a real couple.

So it, it was more art like, and I was like, I love, you know, the ban two knots and just like, it was all very, and you know.

I literally vision.

I was like, okay, this is what I envisioned her looking like.

And I was like, okay, this is what Russ like, it's very, I think it captured them perfectly.

how did the cover come about?

Is that were, did you have a hand in the cover design?

Did you have or was that all publishing?

I was able to select the, like Bramble was amazing.

I was able to select the cover artist that I wanted, and so I saw, Keo stuff and I was like, oh, I like the style.

So the only specifications I gave them for all three covers was that They need to be visibly fat.

Like not alluding to not her standing behind him trying to hide her body, like visibly fat.

Like I wanna see some rolls and some, like you know, also the hairstyles.

I wanted Aaliyah to have her like fro out just like maybe, maybe a flat iron, try to like comb through it to like manage, but like, definitely her natural tresses I wanted.

Um, and plus as player, I wanted Nina to have her band two knots.

And I wanted, even though she only has, she only wears them when she goes to this one, like right formal event.

But like, I wanted to see Bantu knots on the cover of a traditional, I.

Romance.

Um, and I loved how you had her wear the ban two knots to a formal event.

Yes.

And so like, and I feel like, and then the next day she took 'em, she took 'em down and was wearing, like, now it's just stretched out fro and then, know, Jasmine has locks.

And so like, it was just important to me to, to be able to show that these are fat black women with natural hair being like loved and adored as they should because we are worthy of love because there's so much negativity that is thrown at black women or women in general, black women in particular, fat, black women, and then natural hair.

And so I knew that I wanted the covers to have them look.

The way they needed to look.

And then, so that's what I all I really said, and then they came back with these three and I was just like, love it, love everything about it.

Home run.

So going back, I think we, we kind of touched on this a little bit 'cause I'm, I'm fascinated with your, you know, real life career and my best friend is also a therapist.

and so there's off like a disconnect between what readers expect in romance fiction, I think, versus real life dating.

And then, so as a re like I said, I can tell like you are very intentional with, the interactions with the characters and as a relationship coach and, therapist, how do you balance that gap?

So I feel like if you look at.

Russ, he's amazing.

He wouldn't have been perfect for Aaliyah.

And if you look at Ahad, he's amazing.

But he wouldn't have been perfect for Nina.

No.

So it's like knowing your characters and pairing them with the people who are meant for them.

Just like in real life, we sometimes we try to make things fit that don't fit.

And like you were saying before, how people try to take a certain woman and like, oh no, I, I, I saw that you were like this.

I wanna change you and make you the way I want you, instead of just going for the person that you want, like going for the type of woman that you want instead of trying to take this woman and make her that.

So like for, for me, I don't feel like it is.

That difficult to, to like thread that because I believe that in dating, whoever you're dating, male or female, respect is necessary.

So like, yeah, having someone, absolutely.

You need to respect that person.

They need to respect you.

You need to enjoy that person's company.

They need to enjoy your company.

And like some things that when people try to like demonize and minimize romance and they're like, oh, it's giving you unrealistic expectations.

But what's unrealistic about showing up for someone, being there, for someone, supporting them, loving them.

Like that's not unrealistic.

And so, and.

just feel like that is part of the struggle.

I think people have when, when they're like, oh, this is unrealistic, and it's like, it's really not because I wouldn't date someone who treated me poorly or, you know, all these negative things.

It's not unrealistic to want to be treated well to, to want to be talked to nicely, to want to be like loved and desired.

Those are things that are normal, everyday things.

And so if you think that that's unrealistic, then that's something that you have to unpack from in here in your, in your heart, in your spirit, in your soul, because there's something within you that's saying that you.

Don't think you are worthy of being loved and respected.

And it's, it's the, the man in the book does not like that man may not be the man for you like that type of man, because just like Russ is not like for Aaliyah, like the, that, that they wouldn't have hit it off like that wouldn't have been their, their thing, but they're perfect for the people that they were paired with.

And so sometimes we have to like, take a step back and figure out why we think we don't deserve more than what we're getting and then move from there.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And then that has always, behooved me and I'm, when, you know, men and women say, you know, it's not realistic, it's, you know, and I'm like at the core of.

Of these books is relationships.

At the core of these books are relationships to, between a black man and a black woman at the core is, you know, a black man who is loves her down.

Like what is unrealistic about that at at the core is a man that wants to see his partner happy.

Yes.

Yes.

You like at the core is human relationships.

What is unrealistic about that?

Exactly.

And I feel like as long as people believe that, that's unrealistic, they will continue to settle for less than that.

And I want more for all of us men.

Agreed.

Like across the board.

I want more for all of us.

Yeah.

Feel like deserve more because you deserve it.

Exactly, and, and you know, as, and, and, and I see so many and it, it saddens me and to see so many women settling for mediocre.

Mm-hmm.

And basic struggle, love.

Yes.

Because absolutely not, yeah.

Like, not interested.

Not interested.

You can keep that.

I don't wanna be a part of it.

Um, there has.

Publishing has changed, especially for black indie romance, black, well, black romance, art, authors, period.

And you are now like kind of one of those, you know, be before your, your first curvy or some is your first traditionally published, but prior to that you were 30 books in as an indie author.

53.

Oh, excuse me.

My bad.

53 are, are you okay?

I'm missing you.

You, you're deep.

You got a strong back catalog.

I had, I knew it was, you know, 30 years, but 53.

Wow.

So you're kind of like, you've seen it and been there and done it all.

And so now we, you know, there's this current discourse, uh, I don't know if you've seen it on, um, they're talking about the Australian who hasn't written, not nam or one word.

Um, and it's like, oh, I wanted to be an author and started a book talk and now I'm a author and I got a book deal for two books that I haven't written.

Not one word.

So who, whatever ghost writer is gonna write that is gonna be, you know, but you are like now in that space and you're the, you're this big, this hybrid author, but, There weren't romance genres come a long way.

Still has a very, very long way to go.

and what do you think they're doing well when it comes to representation and where does it still need to grow?

I feel like it, just needs to grow.

Yeah.

Because there were, there was no way a black author would've been able to.

Exactly.

So that's why I'm like, been on TikTok for two months.

Not even two months, but this could have never been a black author.

Right.

That's why I'm saying like, I, the only thing I can say is that it needs to grow.

Like there's no, like, oh, well, at least there, I don't wanna give concessions to the bare minimum.

And so it's like, it just, it needs to do better.

It needs to grow.

I feel very blessed and very fortunate to be where I am.

I feel like Bramble has taken like great care of me.

but I've heard horror stories, and when I see things happening, People are posting about what their publishers aren't doing and all of that.

It like, it makes me sad because when I see that, it's usually black authors and authors of color.

Mm-hmm.

and I'm just like, that's not, it's lazy.

Mm-hmm.

It's very lazy because, I think in even black film, black creatives, black authors, there is no excuse for you to say, oh, it doesn't sell.

Oh, yes.

The hell it does.

Sin just proved it does entirely black cast.

Kirby Girl Summer last year proved it.

Sales, the readers are there.

It's not the readers, it's the publishers.

cause Black, they, they show up.

Look what's gonna happen at In Atlanta, you know, the Black Romance Book Festival.

It's been sold out since literally they announced it within minutes.

Sold out.

Yeah, sold out Quickly.

Quickly.

So I, is it the readers note?

It's you guys, it's publishing and for you in the, the big 2025 to say that you don't know how to market it or you don't know?

No.

Yeah, you do.

Right?

You do.

You making, because you use the same things that you use for your other authors.

There's nothing different and this is from, I mean, from a PR person, 20 plus.

And I, you know, I, so I've sat in the rooms and heard the conversations and I'm like, no, it's the same.

The strategy is the same.

The audience is different.

How you approach the audience is different.

And that means you just need to have more people in the room that look like the audience.

Okay.

that's really what it boils down to, because if the people write the books, but the people who are making the decisions are like, oh, no, I don't think so.

Then we have a, we have a disconnect.

There's a disconnect.

Yeah.

And if they were smart, I'm like, look how much money centers just made cost 90 million to make It didn't crossed the billion dollar mark.

Exactly, exactly.

It's not difficult.

It's not brain surgery.

It's not difficult at all.

And again, so it boils down to choices that need the DA.

Exactly.

And you're, are you choosing, right.

Are you choosing wrong?

I'm not even as entrenched in a, in the, the publishing, you know, as I used to be, but I, I mean, I'm like, I can see it and I'm an outsider.

Uh, I mean basically an outsider, but I see.

I'm like, I don't understand what the disconnect is, but okay.

Move on because that's a.

That can be a whole nother podcast.

So now for some fun stuff, I know, like, what can we, I, I know there's at least one more book in the Curves series.

Um, so we got Jasmine, we got a little bit of that, and then I'm like, oh, what happened there?

So we got a little Jasmine story at the end of this book, the, the, the plus size player.

Mm-hmm.

so what can we expect?

Can you get a little bit of tease?

and also like what can we expect?

Like are there gonna be more books after this?

Because I.

I, so they only bought, like, it was a pitch, just three books.

And so they only bought three books.

So there's only three books at this moment that are planned, but a little tease about jazz.

Like jazz went to visit her aunt, like in in Aaliyah's book, you know that Ja like in the beginning when Aaliyah's like, you know, are you okay?

Like, I hate to bother you.

And like every time they talk to jazz, like it's been after she hadn't been picking up the phone, she hadn't been talking much, she like, things are going on.

So Jazz's book is more, a little more emotional, not broken clocks emotional, but like a little more emotional because she's dealing with the pressures of the stuff that's happening back home.

And so you get to see what's happening, um, from.

The from June at the end of the, like about mid-June all the way through like October or December, the New Year's E Okay, so like, so you get a, you get Jazz's story and you find out why Jazz would in her hometown all summer.

And then you see how she deals with all of that.

You see Aaliyah and whom she ended up with and Nina and who she ended up with in Jazz's book as they support their women supporting their best friend.

So like you get to see the other couples in, in Jazz's book because Jazz's book stretches further beyond the summer than.

The first two, which were just like summer flings.

So you get, you get highlights and you get updates.

So I'm really, really excited for, I'm excited for everybody to like get to know Nina and then for them to be able to see everything come together for, in Jazz's story.

Yeah.

And I wondered, I was like, do we get more of everyone, you know, as you close out this kind of series?

but you know, you can't give too much in there because Jasmine has her own story.

so I'm like, I'm excited to hear that.

you also have your Curvy Girl Confessions podcast and baby.

That was an idea I had to try to promote Curvy Girl Summer, but also to just have fun with some authors and, asking them random questions and like getting their confessions.

And so it's been a good time, but it has been, when I did it the first, the first season, I like spent a month just doing the interviews and then I was able to schedule them out.

And that was cool for me, but I, it felt like for some people they had a book out.

Mm-hmm.

And by the time their episode aired, it wasn't like, you know what I mean?

So it was like, yeah, a little difficult.

So I was trying to do it like weekly, but.

It's so hard to do that.

Yeah.

And write and do all the other stuff.

But like, I'm, I'm keeping up with it, but it, it's like, yeah.

Yeah.

Because even with this part, I started it, I had the idea and I was just like, I'm just, you know, I just like talking about, I just love black romance books and, you and, and then I had, I got my diagnosis.

So I probably did one or two episodes before I, I was diagnosed and then I kind of just put it to the side.

And even doing it biweekly is still a lot.

And I'm like, Ooh, okay, wait, what I gotta do now, what?

Oh.

Because my real job, my real life.

Woo.

Um, so it, it is a lot.

So I was like, and you know, and, and so how are you balancing all that?

Because, you know, life be lifeing.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, you doing it all over there.

Yeah, it's a lot.

And so I, what I had to scale back to is just like, okay, I'm gonna do like three.

If there's four weeks and the month, I'm like, three of the weeks I'm doing interviews.

One week I'm gonna have to be up.

I hit up authors and just say, are you busy right now?

Or are you busy tomorrow?

Can we do this?

And they like, so lovely.

I'm like, yes.

And so, I'm gonna ask this as is with Nina.

'cause I feel like Nina would be spicy and this would be a great question for Nina.

but you know, you can answer in Danielle's, voice also, but what would be Nina's favorite sex toy?

Rose.

You were very, is that Nina?

Or Listen, it, it gets the job done now.

Now the rose ain't no joke.

Right.

And and especially with a Ooh, with a partner though.

Exactly.

so yes, Nina knows what she wants.

Yeah.

And she like very like, okay, like, so if she's trying to get off, she's gonna go with the thing that is a guarantee.

Like, and so yeah, because ooh, all that reminds me of it uh, I hate the book.

It's not out yet.

There is, yeah.

No spoilers.

Yes.

I'm like, oh, but that reminder of that, the one scene, and I'm like, Ooh.

Um, see, I, I feel like you have to come back because I feel like we have to discuss the sex scenes.

Yes.

Because I feel like I, because I just told somebody the, yesterday, I was like, no, I don't want, like, don't talk about X, Y, and Z because like I know that I can't pull it after the books come out.

Like, 'cause some people just be spoiling everything just because they can't.

Yeah.

I was like, but I don't want it spoiled before it comes out.

I feel like I put too much hard work into it.

All I can say is Russell.

Russell.

Russell.

Listen.

Listen.

Okay.

So.

what's next for Danielle after The next one is Big girl blitz.

Big girl.

Blitz plus size player is out June 10th, is that right?

Yes.

June 10th.

June plus size player is next.

Yes.

Big girl.

Blin is April 20.

Is that next?

When does that come out?

You can pre-order it now, right?

Yes, it's available for pre-order.

Go ahead and get it so that you are ready with not only Jazz's story, but update on, on our girls and to see what they, how they live in and what they up to.

And so it's a good time as I feel like Jasmine might outdo everybody.

I'd be like, I, I love every single story for different reasons, like they're.

But all three of them, the stories are very impactful.

But what I love about Jasmine's in particular is that you get to see the little bow on everything because it goes beyond what you saw in the other, other women's books.

And so, and when is Jasmine coming up?

April, 2026.

2026.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, okay.

11 months a little bit.

Okay.

If we must, I just, I have to, I just have to finish your back catalog.

I'm scared of your back Catalog after broken process.

Don't, don't be scared.

Don't be scared.

That romantic fiction, all the other ones are romance, like okay.

They're all the romance except for the three nonfiction ones.

All the rest are, are romance.

So there you have it.

Go pre-order, uh, plus size player June 10th.

Go pre-order Big Girl Blitz April, 2026.

Yes.

Uh, Danielle, thank you so much for joining me on Culture Lit.

your work, uh, again, I'm astounded, continues to entertain, empower, and uplift black women everywhere, especially the big girls.

So thank you.

I'm so grateful for your stories, the joy, the heat, the confidence you put on every page.

I am a stand This may now a Danielle Allen Stand podcast.

I love it.

I love it.

Love it.

Thank you.

And let us know where the listeners can connect with you online.

So Danielle Allen.

And that's dot com, that's on TikTok, that's on Instagram, that's on Facebook.

I have a blue Sky account that I forgetting, but like, find me on there.

Me too.

Like when I, I'm like, oh yeah, lemme post something local.

It'll be, but like Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, I'm Danielle.

And then my, Patreon is, um, the Art of Being Danielle.

So, okay, you'll follow me on page nine Awesome.

So there you have it.

plus Size player Plus Size Player drops June 10th from Bramble Romance.

If you haven't already, please go pre-order that book.

You will not be disappointed.

Tell your friends and get ready for Nina and Russell.

Until next time, stay lit, stay loved, and keep reading that Black Romance.