Perfectionism
Episode Transcript
1
00:00:04.340 --> 00:00:14.749
Dawn Bouillion: Hey friends! Welcome back to Not That Girl Anymore. I'm your host, Dawn Bouillon, trauma therapist and coach, and the founder here of Embrace Your Brave.
2
00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:22.830
Dawn Bouillion: And this is a podcast where we talk about healing, and truth, and becoming who we were always meant to be.
3
00:00:23.450 --> 00:00:33.089
Dawn Bouillion: And today, I'm joined by Dottie Griffin and Ashley Woodard, and we are just going to be having a conversation about perfectionism.
4
00:00:35.100 --> 00:00:41.849
Dawn Bouillion: So, perfectionism, we're talking about that quiet, exhausting pressure to hold it all together.
5
00:00:42.080 --> 00:00:47.379
Dawn Bouillion: To be the good girl, the reliable one, the one who makes everyone else proud.
6
00:00:47.570 --> 00:00:50.240
Dawn Bouillion: Even when it's breaking you inside.
7
00:00:51.140 --> 00:00:59.739
Dawn Bouillion: For so many of us, perfectionism helped us feel safe or accepted, but it also kept us small and exhausted.
8
00:01:00.410 --> 00:01:04.349
Dawn Bouillion: So today, we're unpacking where that comes from.
9
00:01:04.459 --> 00:01:10.939
Dawn Bouillion: How it shows up in our lives, and what it looks like To start trading some…
10
00:01:11.080 --> 00:01:15.250
Dawn Bouillion: Some peace for perfection, or trade perfection for peace.
11
00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:19.800
Dawn Bouillion: That's how I should say that. And pressure for grace.
12
00:01:20.900 --> 00:01:25.940
Dawn Bouillion: So… Ladies, so glad to have you with me here today.
13
00:01:27.650 --> 00:01:37.420
Dawn Bouillion: So when you think of perfectionism, for me, even right now, just saying the word out loud, I feel like this tightness in my… in my chest.
14
00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:46.029
Dawn Bouillion: I'm feeling that about this podcast right now. Like, don't mess this up, you know?
15
00:01:46.440 --> 00:01:56.480
Dawn Bouillion: And, you know, that's definitely been a part of my story, and it helped me survive for a long time, but it's also kept me afraid.
16
00:01:56.940 --> 00:01:59.930
Dawn Bouillion: And it has kept me from being me.
17
00:02:00.250 --> 00:02:07.790
Dawn Bouillion: So… What do you guys think of when you hear the word perfectionism?
18
00:02:07.900 --> 00:02:09.629
Dawn Bouillion: What kind of comes up for you?
19
00:02:10.930 --> 00:02:16.599
Ashley Woodard: Mmm, for me, perfectionism would be, you know, the…
20
00:02:17.150 --> 00:02:21.470
Ashley Woodard: I guess, you know, feeling like you can't make mistakes.
21
00:02:22.420 --> 00:02:29.660
Ashley Woodard: It was a feeling that… Just these unrealistic standards.
22
00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:40.780
Ashley Woodard: And just expecting yourself to kind of have it all together, figure everything out, not make mistakes along the way, and just kind of have this perfect…
23
00:02:40.940 --> 00:02:42.190
Ashley Woodard: Looking…
24
00:02:42.380 --> 00:02:50.190
Ashley Woodard: thing all the time. You know, like, you don't ever lose your temper, you don't ever yell, or get angry, or, you know.
25
00:02:50.390 --> 00:02:56.920
Ashley Woodard: scream, or, you know, respond in anger when you're, you know, and mess up, and so…
26
00:02:56.920 --> 00:02:57.880
Dawn Bouillion: That's…
27
00:02:58.340 --> 00:03:02.589
Ashley Woodard: That means for me, and just being very critical of myself, too.
28
00:03:02.880 --> 00:03:03.480
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
29
00:03:03.480 --> 00:03:04.440
Ashley Woodard: And…
30
00:03:04.470 --> 00:03:16.580
Ashley Woodard: When I do make a mistake, or when I do say something, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is who I am. You know, like, and it's not. It's one moment where I messed up, and I was a human for a second.
31
00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:27.140
Ashley Woodard: And, you know, but it… sometimes when you have perfectionism, it can become a defining moment for you when it's not. That's not who you are. That's not who you are even most of the time.
32
00:03:27.140 --> 00:03:37.950
Ashley Woodard: it's like a one-time thing, you know? So, perfectionism can be a slippery slope of just shame and…
33
00:03:37.950 --> 00:03:38.820
Dawn Bouillion: And…
34
00:03:38.820 --> 00:03:43.409
Ashley Woodard: Spiraling and, just feeling like you're not…
35
00:03:43.830 --> 00:03:48.089
Ashley Woodard: Good enough. Or feeling like, you know, no matter what you do.
36
00:03:48.210 --> 00:03:55.610
Ashley Woodard: Because you have this view of, like, perfectionism, and if you don't mark that perfectionism, then, you know, you're failing.
37
00:03:55.920 --> 00:03:57.860
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm.
38
00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.620
Dottie Griffin: Yes, I love Dawn that…
39
00:04:01.050 --> 00:04:09.949
Dottie Griffin: you said, you know, how you were feeling perfectionism with this podcast, and one of the things I really love about this podcast is that
40
00:04:10.100 --> 00:04:12.340
Dottie Griffin: We aren't trying to be perfect.
41
00:04:12.340 --> 00:04:13.640
Dawn Bouillion: You know.
42
00:04:13.640 --> 00:04:16.230
Dottie Griffin: And so that's growth right there for all of us.
43
00:04:17.350 --> 00:04:28.780
Dottie Griffin: And… but for me, you know, perfection… when I hear the word perfectionism, first thing that pops up, into my mind is my childhood, because my childhood was based on
44
00:04:29.530 --> 00:04:32.090
Dottie Griffin: Perfection equals love.
45
00:04:33.030 --> 00:04:39.130
Dottie Griffin: Yeah, so, when I hear the word perfection, it really triggers me.
46
00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:40.450
Dottie Griffin: And…
47
00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:49.050
Dottie Griffin: perfectionism really became just my way of being, and it's how I learned how to be seen and heard and loved.
48
00:04:49.190 --> 00:04:54.130
Dottie Griffin: And I believe… Perfection was the only way to belonging.
49
00:04:54.610 --> 00:04:55.150
Dawn Bouillion: Wow.
50
00:04:55.150 --> 00:04:58.499
Dottie Griffin: You know, so growing up that way,
51
00:04:58.850 --> 00:05:01.670
Dottie Griffin: I didn't allow myself any room for error.
52
00:05:01.790 --> 00:05:05.949
Dottie Griffin: Because anything less than perfect just felt unacceptable.
53
00:05:06.970 --> 00:05:10.850
Dottie Griffin: And when I dig deep down into that wound.
54
00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:20.239
Dottie Griffin: You know, because I have a fear of being abandoned and rejected really goes back to… because somehow I wasn't perfect.
55
00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:28.409
Dottie Griffin: Somehow, somewhere, I was flawed, And I'm the reason… the reason why…
56
00:05:28.540 --> 00:05:39.759
Dottie Griffin: this is happening, or, you know, conflict is happening, or I'm not agreeing with someone, it must be my fault. You know, so I kind of internalized everything as being my fault, so…
57
00:05:39.760 --> 00:05:44.430
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah, perfectionism is… is… that is a trigger word for me.
58
00:05:46.150 --> 00:05:46.870
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
59
00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:52.539
Dawn Bouillion: And I guess when I think about it, I think that was the expectation.
60
00:05:52.830 --> 00:05:56.880
Dawn Bouillion: That was kind of the only acceptable…
61
00:05:57.180 --> 00:06:02.910
Dawn Bouillion: thing as a kid, but like I said, you know, earlier.
62
00:06:03.460 --> 00:06:10.539
Dawn Bouillion: it relates a little bit more to what I was learning in the church. There was this perfectionism that was expected
63
00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:15.389
Dawn Bouillion: to not be a human. You know, like you said, Ashley, like…
64
00:06:15.570 --> 00:06:25.599
Dawn Bouillion: Always be on your A game. Always be good. Always, you know, and that equals love. That equals God loving you.
65
00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:30.240
Dawn Bouillion: That equals you being a good person, you know?
66
00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:46.320
Dawn Bouillion: And you guys kind of mentioned where this started. Like, Dottie, you mentioned your family, and it often is those core, primary relationships where we learn that perfection
67
00:06:46.750 --> 00:06:49.560
Dawn Bouillion: Is the expectation, or perfection.
68
00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:51.909
Dawn Bouillion: is love.
69
00:06:52.460 --> 00:06:58.020
Dawn Bouillion: Renee Brown, one of my favorite people,
70
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:04.549
Dawn Bouillion: has a quote that says, Perfectionism is not the same thing as striving to be your best.
71
00:07:05.140 --> 00:07:13.310
Dawn Bouillion: Perfectionism is the belief that if we live perfect, Look perfect and act perfect.
72
00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:20.130
Dawn Bouillion: We can minimize or avoid the pain of blame, judgment, and shame.
73
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:22.550
Dawn Bouillion: Dusty.
74
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:24.640
Dottie Griffin: Yeah.
75
00:07:24.640 --> 00:07:25.390
Dawn Bouillion: Deep.
76
00:07:25.500 --> 00:07:31.980
Dawn Bouillion: Let me, let me actually say that again, because I think that we want to grasp this.
77
00:07:32.710 --> 00:07:44.650
Dawn Bouillion: Perfectionism is the belief that if we live perfect, look perfect, and act perfect, we can minimize or avoid the pain of blame, judgment.
78
00:07:45.090 --> 00:07:46.160
Dawn Bouillion: and shame.
79
00:07:47.730 --> 00:07:57.649
Dawn Bouillion: And so that's exactly what it is. It's armor. It's something to protect us from pain, but it also keeps us
80
00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:58.620
Dawn Bouillion: from.
81
00:07:59.180 --> 00:07:59.990
Dawn Bouillion: Peace.
82
00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:06.230
Dawn Bouillion: So, perfectionism usually hides something deeper.
83
00:08:06.630 --> 00:08:08.400
Dawn Bouillion: Right?
84
00:08:08.580 --> 00:08:17.239
Dawn Bouillion: And Dottie, you kind of mentioned this, but what fear or need do you think sits underneath that perfectionism?
85
00:08:17.590 --> 00:08:18.500
Dawn Bouillion: for you.
86
00:08:20.280 --> 00:08:27.659
Dottie Griffin: Well, you know, when you were describing, the quote from Brene Brown, which… what was really coming up in me was.
87
00:08:29.620 --> 00:08:33.549
Dottie Griffin: Inspectionism really wasn't my thing, it was my mom's thing.
88
00:08:34.030 --> 00:08:36.480
Dawn Bouillion: It was my mom's way…
89
00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:46.740
Dottie Griffin: of… Masking her fear of whatever it was, and that was kind of… Conditioned and put upon us.
90
00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:48.670
Dottie Griffin: Yeah, she…
91
00:08:50.010 --> 00:08:59.129
Dottie Griffin: She had such a need to look perfect, and for the family to look perfect, so she had us on this pedestal.
92
00:09:00.060 --> 00:09:05.010
Dottie Griffin: You know, that… Was really not attainable.
93
00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:12.439
Dottie Griffin: But because she was my parent and told me it was attainable, I kept trying to climb that ladder to get there.
94
00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:13.550
Ashley Woodard: Mmm, that's.
95
00:09:13.550 --> 00:09:17.300
Dottie Griffin: Just hearing that, you know, perfectionism really wasn't my thing.
96
00:09:17.460 --> 00:09:28.209
Dottie Griffin: But because I grew up under it, then that's just… it just kind of became part of who I… who I was. You know, and…
97
00:09:28.350 --> 00:09:34.650
Dottie Griffin: So beneath perfectionism, for me, is really… Fear of failure.
98
00:09:35.520 --> 00:09:42.489
Dottie Griffin: Failure meant… That you were flawed, and failure meant that you weren't enough.
99
00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:48.350
Dottie Griffin: And failure meant that you were going to be left abandoned and rejected.
100
00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:49.430
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm.
101
00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:55.360
Dottie Griffin: Beneath perfectionism, for me, was fear.
102
00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:55.920
Dawn Bouillion: Right.
103
00:09:56.500 --> 00:10:02.750
Dottie Griffin: And I feared that my authentic self was… was somehow… flawed.
104
00:10:03.050 --> 00:10:07.779
Dottie Griffin: And I wasn't smart enough, I wasn't pretty enough, I wasn't talented enough.
105
00:10:08.990 --> 00:10:12.469
Dottie Griffin: You know, so it was definitely fear that I… that I wasn't enough.
106
00:10:15.170 --> 00:10:18.050
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, and I can definitely relate to…
107
00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:22.400
Ashley Woodard: you know, a lot of what you said too, Dottie, you know, and feeling like.
108
00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:27.220
Ashley Woodard: Perfectionism was kind of something that was handed to you by your family.
109
00:10:27.410 --> 00:10:36.059
Ashley Woodard: You know, because I feel like in my family, we also weren't allowed to make mistakes. And, you know, we were punished really harshly.
110
00:10:36.230 --> 00:10:38.340
Ashley Woodard: Even for making mistakes.
111
00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:50.710
Ashley Woodard: You know, and so mistakes were just seen as, you know, something that was unforgivable. It was something that you were going to be punished for, and it didn't matter if it was a mistake, it didn't matter if you didn't mean to do it.
112
00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:53.539
Ashley Woodard: You know, you were still getting…
113
00:10:53.870 --> 00:11:04.540
Ashley Woodard: harsh punishment for it, as if you did it on purpose. And so I think growing up in that family system, and growing up in a, you know, kind of feeling like you have to perform
114
00:11:04.930 --> 00:11:07.760
Ashley Woodard: And you know, like I've said before, just feeling like…
115
00:11:07.900 --> 00:11:14.050
Ashley Woodard: We had to put on this show, and, you know, we had to have this idea of perfectionism.
116
00:11:14.710 --> 00:11:22.689
Ashley Woodard: In our family. And so, for me, I think below that was…
117
00:11:22.890 --> 00:11:31.489
Ashley Woodard: And I think even in my family was… they were trying… perfectionism is essentially, you know, a false sense of control.
118
00:11:31.970 --> 00:11:32.300
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm.
119
00:11:32.530 --> 00:11:42.919
Ashley Woodard: You know, when you think about it, it's like you're trying to control, and you're trying to have a control of other people's perceptions of you.
120
00:11:42.920 --> 00:12:00.460
Ashley Woodard: you're trying to control, you know, whatever it is, and at the end of the day, if you really think about it, there… we have no control. Control is just an illusion. And so, when we really think about it, and we're like, okay, so I actually can't control how people perceive me.
121
00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:10.010
Ashley Woodard: Because people's… and this is what I've learned, too, about perception, is that people's perceptions are usually… have a lot more to do with them than they have to do with me.
122
00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:22.800
Ashley Woodard: And so, that's okay. If somebody has a perception of me that's incorrect, it's probably a projection, or something that's going on in their life, and it has nothing to do with me.
123
00:12:22.930 --> 00:12:30.329
Ashley Woodard: And so, yeah, just… Perfectionism, I think, in its… in its…
124
00:12:30.670 --> 00:12:33.409
Ashley Woodard: deepest form, I think, has a lot of…
125
00:12:33.700 --> 00:12:42.319
Ashley Woodard: shame, and a lot of just that fear of rejection, that fear of, if I mess up, then people will think I'm not good enough.
126
00:12:43.380 --> 00:12:48.729
Ashley Woodard: And that's something that I daily struggle with. Like, I have to…
127
00:12:48.860 --> 00:13:02.350
Ashley Woodard: daily remind myself when I mess up, or, you know, if I forget to go get my kids from school, or if I yell at my husband, or, you know, get really angry over something. I have to remind myself that
128
00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:03.860
Ashley Woodard: I'm a human.
129
00:13:05.140 --> 00:13:07.130
Ashley Woodard: And that I'm gonna make mistakes.
130
00:13:07.290 --> 00:13:11.250
Ashley Woodard: And that, just because I made the mistake, doesn't mean that that's who I am.
131
00:13:12.090 --> 00:13:12.850
Dawn Bouillion: Right?
132
00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:13.780
Dawn Bouillion: Right?
133
00:13:14.290 --> 00:13:16.709
Dottie Griffin: I love that you said that it was an illusion.
134
00:13:17.020 --> 00:13:17.690
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
135
00:13:17.690 --> 00:13:18.409
Dawn Bouillion: It's true.
136
00:13:18.410 --> 00:13:22.129
Dottie Griffin: Perfection is such an illusion. It is not attainable.
137
00:13:22.780 --> 00:13:26.870
Dottie Griffin: You know, and anybody who tries to attain perfection will never get there.
138
00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:30.459
Dottie Griffin: So it's a mental construct that's… that's…
139
00:13:31.300 --> 00:13:39.630
Dottie Griffin: You know, that's embedded in our brains by whoever is needing… To look a certain way.
140
00:13:39.630 --> 00:13:43.320
Ashley Woodard: You know, for us, it was our childhood, our parents, and…
141
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.370
Dottie Griffin: But it is definitely… it's not attainable.
142
00:13:49.510 --> 00:13:52.179
Dawn Bouillion: And I… I can see how…
143
00:13:52.650 --> 00:13:56.920
Dawn Bouillion: I was just thinking about what this looked like for me, especially in my marriage.
144
00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:03.600
Dawn Bouillion: You know, in my mind, somehow I got the notion that if I just…
145
00:14:04.020 --> 00:14:07.620
Dawn Bouillion: did it perfect, you know, like, if I… if I was…
146
00:14:07.750 --> 00:14:15.930
Dawn Bouillion: a good wife, if I looked a certain way, if I acted a certain way, then I could get you to love me.
147
00:14:16.150 --> 00:14:17.160
Ashley Woodard: back.
148
00:14:17.300 --> 00:14:25.180
Dawn Bouillion: And so the expectation was perfection for me, because I thought that was how you get love.
149
00:14:25.460 --> 00:14:29.600
Dawn Bouillion: And it's also how you don't get… blamed.
150
00:14:29.930 --> 00:14:36.649
Dawn Bouillion: how you don't get rejected, you know? And so it's like this… this survival tactic.
151
00:14:36.920 --> 00:14:40.159
Dawn Bouillion: In order to try not to get abandoned.
152
00:14:42.090 --> 00:14:52.420
Dawn Bouillion: Try not to get rejected. Try to, you know, the fear of not being enough, the fear of not being accepted.
153
00:14:52.890 --> 00:14:59.320
Dawn Bouillion: The fear of rejection, like you… like you guys said, so… .
154
00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:06.169
Dottie Griffin: And you know, all three of our stories are embedded In trying to be perfect.
155
00:15:06.490 --> 00:15:09.940
Dottie Griffin: For people who showed narcissistic tendencies.
156
00:15:11.420 --> 00:15:15.700
Dottie Griffin: You know, trying to be perfect for my mom, who was trying to control everything.
157
00:15:15.910 --> 00:15:16.750
Ashley Woodard: Hmm.
158
00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:21.860
Dottie Griffin: That perfectionism… It was fluid. It changed.
159
00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:22.400
Ashley Woodard: It was…
160
00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:25.579
Dottie Griffin: It was a game, you can't win at that game.
161
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:26.160
Dawn Bouillion: Right.
162
00:15:26.410 --> 00:15:27.100
Dottie Griffin: You know, so.
163
00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:29.629
Ashley Woodard: The house keeps moving.
164
00:15:29.870 --> 00:15:32.709
Dottie Griffin: Yeah, the ball… the ball keeps moving, and… and…
165
00:15:32.920 --> 00:15:35.120
Dottie Griffin: You know, the more you strive
166
00:15:36.730 --> 00:15:46.829
Dottie Griffin: to earn the love that this person… you want from this person by being perfect, and then they move the ball, you never get there.
167
00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:56.399
Dottie Griffin: And that becomes so frustrating, that's when we be… we start blaming ourselves, we start shaming ourselves, there's something wrong with us that we can't…
168
00:15:57.210 --> 00:16:04.369
Dottie Griffin: Catch that carrot that's being dangled in front of us, when we really don't realize it's just getting moved.
169
00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:07.740
Dawn Bouillion: Right, exactly.
170
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:13.290
Dottie Griffin: When we finally figured that out, we're like, okay. But, you know, it takes us so long to get there.
171
00:16:14.230 --> 00:16:22.980
Dottie Griffin: of work, a lot of, you know, therapy, and that kind of stuff to figure all of this out. Like, man, that carrot kept being moved. No wonder I couldn't be perfect.
172
00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:25.280
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
173
00:16:25.690 --> 00:16:40.490
Dawn Bouillion: And it also doesn't work to get love, right? Because what I found is I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. It's still not gonna be enough, you know? And when you're dealing with people that
174
00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:43.000
Dawn Bouillion: Haven't done their own work.
175
00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:57.329
Dawn Bouillion: And they're just taking more from you, or you're giving more of yourself into this bottomless pit that just keeps taking more and more, then we're losing more and more of ourself, and we're never gonna get anything back.
176
00:16:57.850 --> 00:16:58.750
Dawn Bouillion: from that.
177
00:16:59.270 --> 00:17:01.870
Dawn Bouillion: So it is a lie, right?
178
00:17:01.870 --> 00:17:02.300
Ashley Woodard: movement.
179
00:17:02.300 --> 00:17:07.939
Dawn Bouillion: It's a lie, but it's one of those ways that we learned to survive.
180
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.130
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
181
00:17:10.010 --> 00:17:12.790
Dawn Bouillion: Because it did keep us alive, as well.
182
00:17:13.250 --> 00:17:13.750
Dawn Bouillion: Right?
183
00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:17.659
Dawn Bouillion: When you think about our family systems that we came from.
184
00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:23.049
Dawn Bouillion: It did kind of work to help us survive, but it's not going to help us thrive.
185
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:24.960
Dottie Griffin: It's not gonna help us.
186
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:30.680
Dawn Bouillion: It's not gonna help us actually live and be our authentic… selves, right?
187
00:17:31.130 --> 00:17:31.610
Dottie Griffin: Yes.
188
00:17:33.060 --> 00:17:45.820
Dawn Bouillion: And so, Dottie, this is another thing where we kind of talk about the impact on our body, but when we are trying to hold everything together and get it right.
189
00:17:45.980 --> 00:17:50.199
Dawn Bouillion: with our perfectionism, what's the impact on our body?
190
00:17:52.620 --> 00:17:55.329
Dottie Griffin: Well, we're always questioning ourselves.
191
00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:56.569
Dawn Bouillion: You know?
192
00:17:56.570 --> 00:17:58.050
Dottie Griffin: Did we get it right?
193
00:17:58.930 --> 00:18:16.880
Dottie Griffin: And if we didn't get it right, then we're gonna sit and ruminate and think what I could have done better, what I should have done, what I shouldn't have done, what I should have said, what I shouldn't have said, and all of that angst and anxiety gets stored right in our body. And, you know, it…
194
00:18:17.270 --> 00:18:32.940
Dottie Griffin: It makes us tense up, it makes us, always be on high alert, hypervigilant in the world, just waiting for something to happen. And again, we never find ourselves in a state of relaxation,
195
00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:37.829
Dottie Griffin: Where we can actually have an authentic thought.
196
00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:46.680
Dottie Griffin: Because it's always this chaos running around in our mind, trying to figure out what we did wrong.
197
00:18:48.100 --> 00:18:54.310
Dottie Griffin: Because it's always, we always blame ourself. We must have done something wrong. And when we can release ourself.
198
00:18:54.410 --> 00:19:02.250
Dottie Griffin: From that responsibility, Managing other people's feelings and… and…
199
00:19:02.430 --> 00:19:05.470
Dottie Griffin: You know, managing their lives, really.
200
00:19:05.600 --> 00:19:07.850
Dottie Griffin: When we can release all of that.
201
00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:17.660
Dottie Griffin: Take some time out for ourselves to sit, breathe deeply, to meditate, to just listen to our…
202
00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:24.899
Dottie Griffin: in… inner selves. Listen to our own intuition. Get in touch with our gut.
203
00:19:25.340 --> 00:19:27.340
Dawn Bouillion: And what it's telling us?
204
00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:31.869
Dottie Griffin: That's when we can move forward in our most authentic way.
205
00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:41.549
Dawn Bouillion: And I said this earlier, but, like, I can feel it in my chest. I can feel it, like, that tightening.
206
00:19:42.510 --> 00:19:52.789
Dawn Bouillion: In my, in my, you know, in my chest, in my breathing, in my shoulders, and everything else. And so it's just another way how everything is so connected.
207
00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:57.910
Dawn Bouillion: And we don't realize it until we start paying attention to it.
208
00:19:57.910 --> 00:19:58.570
Ashley Woodard: And…
209
00:19:58.570 --> 00:20:01.440
Dawn Bouillion: Try to start breathing, or try to start releasing.
210
00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:03.940
Dawn Bouillion: our jaw.
211
00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:07.850
Dawn Bouillion: And lowering our shoulders, it's like, oh…
212
00:20:08.280 --> 00:20:20.219
Dawn Bouillion: okay, you know, even I'm… I'm just doing that right now, and I can feel like, oh, there it was again. This was holding that… holding that tension, and it's so… we don't even realize.
213
00:20:20.330 --> 00:20:21.139
Dawn Bouillion: That does happen.
214
00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:30.939
Dottie Griffin: We realize that unless we take the time to do the somatic practices, we can know them all we want, and if we go and we do them once or twice.
215
00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:50.909
Dottie Griffin: there will be some benefit, but it's like going to a gym and working out. If you only go once or twice, you get very little benefit, but if you continue to do it, then your body just automatically is retrained to be able to release some of this stuff before it sits… before it gets embedded in our tissues.
216
00:20:52.000 --> 00:21:02.530
Dottie Griffin: You know, so… We're more readily able to navigate whatever Being thrown at us.
217
00:21:03.110 --> 00:21:13.199
Dottie Griffin: And we can just, okay, this is happening, let me sit for a minute, let me count to 10, let me take some deep breaths, whatever it is. There's so many somatic practices that help.
218
00:21:14.430 --> 00:21:25.119
Dottie Griffin: And it calms that physiology, and when you really, truly feel the calmness, that's where you start feeling your energy. That's where you start getting your energy.
219
00:21:26.290 --> 00:21:29.349
Dottie Griffin: You know, energy begins to be restored.
220
00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:35.050
Dottie Griffin: When you start being able to release all of this stuff, but we don't, we just hold it all in.
221
00:21:35.210 --> 00:21:38.999
Dottie Griffin: Until it's like a volcano, and then it busts out.
222
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:51.280
Ashley Woodard: And now we have to go and punish ourselves because we got angry, or, you know, we got mad, or we yelled, or whatever it is we did. But, I mean, yeah, it's all connected.
223
00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:52.740
Ashley Woodard: It is.
224
00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:57.109
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, and I can definitely attest to that too, Dottie, because I know
225
00:21:57.410 --> 00:22:04.590
Ashley Woodard: for me, when I started, you know, doing yoga or different things like that, different somatic practices, I couldn't…
226
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:11.510
Ashley Woodard: like, do the meditation part, or I couldn't even just do the yoga, because I'd be, like, my mind would just be, like.
227
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.540
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm…
228
00:22:12.540 --> 00:22:21.010
Ashley Woodard: all over the place, and a part of that is probably ADHD, but another part of it was that anxiousness and that hypervigilance, and…
229
00:22:21.010 --> 00:22:24.750
Dawn Bouillion: And I can… I can definitely attest to you, as I've healed, and as I've…
230
00:22:25.230 --> 00:22:40.350
Ashley Woodard: gone, you know, practicing that on a regular basis, I've seen a huge difference in my body, and in my mind, and in my, you know, everything, and just, you know, that… like, like you said earlier, too, like, you can breathe, you can take a deep breath.
231
00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:44.569
Ashley Woodard: And it's, like, it's different, and it works.
232
00:22:44.570 --> 00:22:57.910
Dottie Griffin: We think it has to be a long time that we sit in meditation for, you know, an hour, or… really, starting out with however long you can go. If that's 2 minutes, then go 2 minutes.
233
00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:13.650
Dottie Griffin: And somatic work for you may not be sitting still. Somatic work may be doing yoga, or some type of exercise. It might be going out into nature, and enjoying a hike, or a walk, or…
234
00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:15.660
Dottie Griffin: You know, seeing…
235
00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:24.149
Dottie Griffin: the beach, or the mountains, whatever it is you love to see, that's all somatic work. So, you know, it's… it's not just
236
00:23:24.260 --> 00:23:31.090
Dottie Griffin: these few little things in this box. There's so many things to do that help us calm our physiology.
237
00:23:31.130 --> 00:23:36.090
Dawn Bouillion: It's learning what works for you, and then continuing to practice that.
238
00:23:39.320 --> 00:23:41.150
Dawn Bouillion: So good.
239
00:23:42.120 --> 00:23:50.199
Dawn Bouillion: One of the things with perfectionism, too, is it can kind of be hard to spot, because it can look like, excellence.
240
00:23:50.350 --> 00:23:56.700
Dawn Bouillion: Or it can look like a super responsible person, or it can look, you know, very ambitious.
241
00:23:57.010 --> 00:24:05.180
Dawn Bouillion: So what would you say, how can we tell the difference between excellence imperfectionism.
242
00:24:05.840 --> 00:24:06.930
Dawn Bouillion: In your life.
243
00:24:08.330 --> 00:24:09.420
Ashley Woodard: Hmm…
244
00:24:10.030 --> 00:24:16.630
Dottie Griffin: I mean, I think excellence… Excellence allows room for mistakes.
245
00:24:17.330 --> 00:24:24.130
Dottie Griffin: Excellence allows Time for us to learn and to grow.
246
00:24:24.290 --> 00:24:27.480
Dottie Griffin: Right. That's how we become excellent at something.
247
00:24:28.040 --> 00:24:36.310
Dottie Griffin: My first… Being brave enough to do it. You know, trying to do your best, And learning from…
248
00:24:37.610 --> 00:24:44.940
Dottie Griffin: the mistake, if one's made, or just learning how to get better, that's excellent. But perfectionism, to me, is…
249
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:47.679
Dottie Griffin: There's no room for error.
250
00:24:48.530 --> 00:24:53.670
Dottie Griffin: And perfectionism is when you make a mistake, you must beat yourself up.
251
00:24:54.390 --> 00:25:03.629
Dottie Griffin: a thousand times so that you remember not to make that mistake again. You know, at work, it's so funny. If I make a mistake, the reprimand that
252
00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:11.579
Dottie Griffin: my managers give me, nowhere compares to how much I beat myself up.
253
00:25:11.950 --> 00:25:12.830
Ashley Woodard: Right.
254
00:25:12.830 --> 00:25:19.420
Dottie Griffin: You know, they… I mean, I… they can fuss me, but man, I'm gonna go and fuss myself 10 times more.
255
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.530
Dottie Griffin: Making that mistake.
256
00:25:21.530 --> 00:25:22.470
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
257
00:25:22.470 --> 00:25:25.560
Dottie Griffin: So that's… that's where perfectionism comes in.
258
00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:27.920
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
259
00:25:28.340 --> 00:25:40.399
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, I think for me, it's definitely, the feeling, like, like a lot of what Dottie said, you know, I resonate with, too, because that feeling of, like, you can't make mistakes.
260
00:25:40.830 --> 00:25:58.820
Ashley Woodard: You know, and if I'm making mistakes, it means the worst. You know, instead of that, I'm just a human and I made a mistake. And sometimes I can compare myself to, you know, a person that's hurt me, or a person that's, you know, done really evil, or…
261
00:25:59.080 --> 00:26:13.409
Ashley Woodard: terrible things, and I might be like, oh, I made a mistake that's maybe similar to something that they did. Maybe something minor, obviously. You know, nothing huge, but just a minor mistake. And then, in my mind, I might tell myself.
262
00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:30.649
Ashley Woodard: oh my gosh, now I'm like this person. Now that makes me like that person. And in reality, I'm not. Not at all like that person. And I didn't even come close to doing the things that that person did. But it's that perfectionism that kind of keeps you in that loop of…
263
00:26:30.770 --> 00:26:43.660
Ashley Woodard: that fear, and really beneath that is just that fear of being like that person. You know, fear of hurting people like that person hurt people. And so…
264
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:53.890
Ashley Woodard: For me, that perfectionism can show up in that way of, you know, me making a small mistake, and then me attributing, like, me just, in my mind, just blowing it up.
265
00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:54.590
Dawn Bouillion: Right.
266
00:26:54.590 --> 00:26:58.049
Ashley Woodard: Just thinking it's this big deal, and it's really just not.
267
00:26:58.270 --> 00:27:00.729
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
268
00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:01.270
Dottie Griffin: Good.
269
00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:06.529
Dawn Bouillion: Just like what you're… you guys are saying, you know, it's like how we handle…
270
00:27:07.030 --> 00:27:13.700
Dawn Bouillion: The failures, how we handle with messing up, how we handle with our humanity.
271
00:27:13.940 --> 00:27:15.849
Dawn Bouillion: You know,
272
00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:23.669
Dawn Bouillion: do we jump to that, you're the stupidest person on the planet, and blah blah blah blah, you know what I'm saying all those really mean things.
273
00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:26.470
Dawn Bouillion: Because I used to be that person that did those things.
274
00:27:26.660 --> 00:27:36.979
Dawn Bouillion: Or are we able to give ourselves grace? Are we able to even expect that we will fail and mess things up, because that's part of being a human?
275
00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:40.710
Dawn Bouillion: And therefore, we have more… more space.
276
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.779
Dawn Bouillion: for that, you know, I think that's definitely one of the ways we can…
277
00:27:45.130 --> 00:27:51.900
Dawn Bouillion: Tell it a difference of, you know, are we just pursuing excellence and becoming the best
278
00:27:52.030 --> 00:27:56.309
Dawn Bouillion: Us than we can be, or are we operating from that perfectionism?
279
00:27:56.310 --> 00:27:56.730
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
280
00:27:56.730 --> 00:27:57.350
Dawn Bouillion: Nice.
281
00:27:58.030 --> 00:27:58.610
Ashley Woodard: Hmm.
282
00:27:58.850 --> 00:27:59.370
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
283
00:27:59.370 --> 00:28:00.220
Dottie Griffin: Love that.
284
00:28:01.690 --> 00:28:07.069
Dawn Bouillion: So why do you think it's so hard for a perfectionist to rest?
285
00:28:07.310 --> 00:28:09.270
Dawn Bouillion: Or to ask for help.
286
00:28:11.910 --> 00:28:16.680
Dawn Bouillion: Asking for a friend, asking for a friend.
287
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.100
Dottie Griffin: Thanksgiving for that, friend.
288
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:20.100
Dottie Griffin: Yeah, perfect.
289
00:28:20.100 --> 00:28:29.269
Dawn Bouillion: struggle to ask for help because it feels like failure. And we convince ourselves that if we're truly capable of.
290
00:28:29.270 --> 00:28:35.030
Dottie Griffin: of doing something, then we should do it ourselves. And not only that, you know, we get… we start to…
291
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:42.170
Dottie Griffin: begin to think, and why we… that was the old dot, because the new dot doesn't think this way, but…
292
00:28:42.290 --> 00:28:46.560
Dottie Griffin: as… as a perfectionist, you know, I thought that…
293
00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:50.779
Dottie Griffin: if I asked somebody to do something, they weren't gonna do it.
294
00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:53.219
Dottie Griffin: as well as I was gonna do it.
295
00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:58.150
Dottie Griffin: You know, and… And…
296
00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:00.809
Dawn Bouillion: So I did it myself.
297
00:29:00.810 --> 00:29:06.269
Dottie Griffin: It… it's… I heard something… One time about…
298
00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:09.829
Dottie Griffin: Especially, like, in my marriage, you know?
299
00:29:09.830 --> 00:29:10.570
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
300
00:29:10.570 --> 00:29:14.209
Dottie Griffin: when I think about getting from point A to point B,
301
00:29:14.320 --> 00:29:25.679
Dottie Griffin: I think of it in a straight line as quickly as we can. My husband, on the other hand, can think about getting from point A
302
00:29:25.790 --> 00:29:30.300
Dottie Griffin: to point B by going all over the universe, and then he gets
303
00:29:31.970 --> 00:29:35.070
Dottie Griffin: But the fact is, is he gets there.
304
00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:40.500
Ashley Woodard: You know, my perfectionism was like, but babe, you're not getting there the best way.
305
00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:42.920
Dottie Griffin: Like, but I'm getting there!
306
00:29:43.290 --> 00:29:52.649
Dottie Griffin: I didn't get there the way I want to get there, you know, it's something I had to learn, that, yeah, he's right. It doesn't matter if we're getting to point B by going
307
00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:54.870
Dottie Griffin: through Z to get there.
308
00:29:56.100 --> 00:30:07.559
Dottie Griffin: But we eventually do get… that's another thing of perfectionism, you know? We think we see the best way, and if it's not done that way, then we just… we'll just do it ourselves.
309
00:30:08.860 --> 00:30:20.379
Ashley Woodard: That was… that was a huge part of perfectionism for me, too, that hyper-independence and… and just that feeling. I think for me, I would just feel like I would be a burden to someone else.
310
00:30:21.380 --> 00:30:38.299
Ashley Woodard: And there was also that fear that, like Dottie said, that they're not gonna do it like me. They're not gonna do it the right way, and so I need to do it. And that's been a huge thing in my marriage, and just allowing my husband
311
00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:46.759
Ashley Woodard: To do things, like allowing him to take over different things in the house, you know, and then letting him do it his way.
312
00:30:46.930 --> 00:30:51.589
Ashley Woodard: Because I'm like, I don't, you know, I don't care. If he does the laundry his way.
313
00:30:51.910 --> 00:31:03.519
Ashley Woodard: He does the laundry his way. The laundry gets done, you know? And it's still hard, because there's that part of me that's like, it's not done right, you know? But it's like…
314
00:31:03.520 --> 00:31:13.030
Ashley Woodard: At the end of the day, it's like, the clothes are clean, they're folded, and honestly, he does a better job than me. So, I'm seeing…
315
00:31:14.030 --> 00:31:25.270
Ashley Woodard: But it's taken me a long time to get there, and just to let go, and be like, okay, I'm gonna let you have this, and I'm gonna let you do it your way, and I'm not gonna…
316
00:31:25.700 --> 00:31:26.750
Ashley Woodard: you know.
317
00:31:26.910 --> 00:31:37.179
Ashley Woodard: try to control the way you do it, or make it perfect, or make it the way that I want it, I'm gonna let you do it. And thankfully, you know, he's done… he does it better than me, so I'm like.
318
00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:40.900
Ashley Woodard: This was a good thing that I gave up.
319
00:31:40.900 --> 00:31:43.339
Dawn Bouillion: Yes, yeah.
320
00:31:43.600 --> 00:31:46.870
Ashley Woodard: And I hate laundry, so…
321
00:31:47.520 --> 00:31:58.249
Dawn Bouillion: Oh, man. When it's like receiving help, or asking for… asking for help, you know? Like, part of the conditioning was probably that you shouldn't need help.
322
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:04.329
Ashley Woodard: You should be able to do all of this on your own. You shouldn't need anything, you know?
323
00:32:04.330 --> 00:32:08.609
Dawn Bouillion: When, in actuality, that's not human.
324
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:15.949
Dawn Bouillion: And we need each other, and we're all better when we can receive help.
325
00:32:16.410 --> 00:32:17.099
Ashley Woodard: What do you have?
326
00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:22.699
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, and I think as a mom, you kind of expected to do everything around the house.
327
00:32:23.390 --> 00:32:38.439
Ashley Woodard: And so… and there's… and there's a part of me, too, that feels shame that I'm like, why am I not doing everything around the house? You know, because it's like, that's what I've been taught I'm supposed to do, and I'm not doing that! Like, you know, I'm letting my partner help me. And…
328
00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:53.310
Ashley Woodard: it's… it's just… it's one of those roles that it's like, it's not necessarily… just because it's something that everybody's doing doesn't mean that it's healthy, and doesn't mean that it's good. And it doesn't mean that it's right. And that's something I'm learning in so many ways in my life, you know, with…
329
00:32:53.310 --> 00:33:02.979
Ashley Woodard: marriage, and how that's supposed to look, and the roles that we're assigned as a husband and wife, and all of those different things. And that's just another layer to it.
330
00:33:04.340 --> 00:33:04.910
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah, for sure.
331
00:33:04.910 --> 00:33:07.630
Dottie Griffin: Sure, it's, it's, it's allowing…
332
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:17.880
Dottie Griffin: our strengths to cover our partners' weaknesses, and vice versa, letting their strengths cover ours. You know, as perfectionists, we think we have to be strong at everything.
333
00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:24.849
Dottie Griffin: You know, I know, like, You, you let your husband do laundry, mine cooks.
334
00:33:25.010 --> 00:33:36.239
Dottie Griffin: He's a better cook, and for a long time, you know, I got flack about, oh, dog doesn't know how to cook. Now I say, yeah, you're right, but my husband does, and he does a great job.
335
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:40.229
Dottie Griffin: He cooks for us, and he… he doesn't mind.
336
00:33:40.260 --> 00:33:43.659
Dawn Bouillion: But he's terrible at doing the dishes.
337
00:33:45.930 --> 00:33:47.829
Dawn Bouillion: I'm a boss at dishes, so…
338
00:33:47.830 --> 00:33:48.699
Dottie Griffin: Can I explain that?
339
00:33:48.700 --> 00:33:53.060
Ashley Woodard: You've come to my house.
340
00:33:53.060 --> 00:34:03.209
Dottie Griffin: So, I mean, that's how that works, you know? And even in friendships, it's learning how to collaborate, and learning how to let other people
341
00:34:03.210 --> 00:34:16.229
Dottie Griffin: Safe people, of course, cover your weaknesses, so you're able to ask for help, because you know that they're gonna cover you, and not, you know, make fun of you for not being able to cook all that good.
342
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:17.289
Ashley Woodard: Yes!
343
00:34:17.290 --> 00:34:24.789
Dottie Griffin: I had to let that go, because that was one of the things I got picked at about. Picked at. Is that a word that everybody uses?
344
00:34:24.789 --> 00:34:25.099
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
345
00:34:25.100 --> 00:34:26.780
Dawn Bouillion: Today.
346
00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:28.340
Dottie Griffin: God knows how to cook, you know?
347
00:34:29.850 --> 00:34:32.090
Dottie Griffin: Okay, I can cook well enough.
348
00:34:33.080 --> 00:34:34.659
Dottie Griffin: He just does better.
349
00:34:36.429 --> 00:34:53.709
Dawn Bouillion: And I'm thinking about how, like, you guys are really giving examples of how that impacts our relationships, because if we are expecting ourselves to be perfect, we're going to be expecting everyone else to measure up to that same standard, which is an impossible thing.
350
00:34:53.939 --> 00:34:55.429
Dawn Bouillion: Impossible standard.
351
00:34:56.250 --> 00:35:10.199
Dawn Bouillion: And the balance that you guys are talking about is finding that space where both people can authentically be them and show up in the places where they feel like they can show up.
352
00:35:10.270 --> 00:35:11.350
Ashley Woodard: Mmm.
353
00:35:12.820 --> 00:35:17.049
Dawn Bouillion: And so, yeah, it's kind of that… that grace piece.
354
00:35:17.330 --> 00:35:26.060
Dawn Bouillion: Right? Perfectionism doesn't just disappear overnight, it softens through that grace and that… that compassion.
355
00:35:26.850 --> 00:35:36.669
Dawn Bouillion: And, we've kind of already talked about this a little bit, but what is it that has helped you of letting go of that perfectionism?
356
00:35:37.100 --> 00:35:44.790
Dawn Bouillion: Just personally, and in relationships, or even in your faith, or… Your body, or what…
357
00:35:45.470 --> 00:35:47.080
Dawn Bouillion: Whatever that might be.
358
00:35:48.640 --> 00:35:53.560
Ashley Woodard: Well, I think for me, practically, is just kind of letting…
359
00:35:53.970 --> 00:35:58.810
Ashley Woodard: the safe people in my life know, you know, that I'm struggling with.
360
00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:00.470
Dawn Bouillion: X, Y, and Z.
361
00:36:00.470 --> 00:36:14.409
Ashley Woodard: You know, this is my fear, this is my feeling, this is, like, help me. And then they can reassure me, you know, and then they can kind of… we can talk about it, or we can figure out a solution,
362
00:36:14.950 --> 00:36:20.930
Ashley Woodard: And then just allow, you know, also being in that space where you can make mistakes, and…
363
00:36:21.380 --> 00:36:32.860
Ashley Woodard: And that kind of reflects, I think, even into the unsafe spaces, you know, where you kind of know your people, and you're safe people, and you're like, I'm safe to make mistakes with these people.
364
00:36:33.050 --> 00:36:33.490
Dawn Bouillion: safety.
365
00:36:33.490 --> 00:36:48.820
Ashley Woodard: be honest with these people, and then you go out, you know, into the world, to the real world, where you don't have those safe people, but you kind of know you have that, like, backbone in, you know, I kind of think back to, like.
366
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:59.139
Ashley Woodard: I don't care what anybody thinks, except for those… those important people. You know, those are the people that I care what they think, those are the people that…
367
00:36:59.140 --> 00:37:16.550
Ashley Woodard: you know, I respect, they respect me, there's that mutual love, autonomy, all those good things. And so I kind of reflect back to that, even in those moments where I'm around people who might be judgmental, or people who might not allow flaws, or whatever, and I can just be like, that's okay.
368
00:37:16.670 --> 00:37:19.650
Ashley Woodard: You know? Like, I don't have to take on…
369
00:37:19.910 --> 00:37:23.830
Ashley Woodard: other people's, or what I think other people's feelings.
370
00:37:24.110 --> 00:37:39.690
Ashley Woodard: emotions or, you know, thoughts might be, or perception, and I could just kind of let go. Like, I think, ultimately, it's letting go of, you know, people's perceptions, what I think they are, letting people think whatever they want.
371
00:37:40.010 --> 00:37:40.730
Dottie Griffin: Yeah.
372
00:37:40.730 --> 00:37:43.810
Ashley Woodard: And knowing that that doesn't define me, that's not who I am.
373
00:37:43.990 --> 00:37:44.570
Dawn Bouillion: Right.
374
00:37:44.570 --> 00:37:49.270
Ashley Woodard: And… and allowing myself to just be human.
375
00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:49.890
Dawn Bouillion: Right?
376
00:37:49.890 --> 00:37:52.159
Ashley Woodard: Make mistakes to figure it out.
377
00:37:52.650 --> 00:37:59.080
Ashley Woodard: You know, to heal… to heal. Because healing is not a one-time thing.
378
00:37:59.190 --> 00:38:09.500
Ashley Woodard: I think I've thought for a long time that it was, like, a one-time thing, you know? Like, I've heard Daddy say, she's like, I was gonna go to three therapy sessions, and I'm gonna be done.
379
00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:10.370
Dawn Bouillion: Right?
380
00:38:10.370 --> 00:38:27.410
Ashley Woodard: And that was my mindset, too, because I thought, like, you know, I would be… I'd go to a church service, you know, and I'd go up for prayer, and I'd cry, and, you know, and I did have those moments in church services, and I did freedom retreats, and I did all these things, and I was like, okay, why am I still not…
381
00:38:28.570 --> 00:38:44.520
Ashley Woodard: perfect. You know, why do I still feel feelings? Why do I still make mistakes? Why do I still struggle? And I realized it's because I'm human, and so I think a big part of letting go of perfectionism has been allowing myself to be human.
382
00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:45.140
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
383
00:38:46.530 --> 00:38:50.939
Dottie Griffin: Yeah, that's so funny that you mentioned my three therapy sessions.
384
00:38:51.390 --> 00:38:54.260
Dottie Griffin: That's when I… when I first…
385
00:38:54.260 --> 00:38:56.060
Ashley Woodard: With the therapy.
386
00:38:56.220 --> 00:39:00.149
Dottie Griffin: you know, I was really in my perfectionist mode.
387
00:39:00.390 --> 00:39:02.290
Dawn Bouillion: So I'm here, I'm trying.
388
00:39:02.430 --> 00:39:06.249
Dottie Griffin: To impress my therapist.
389
00:39:08.790 --> 00:39:13.660
Dawn Bouillion: And she was so good at seeing right through that.
390
00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:20.370
Dottie Griffin: You know, she blew the lid off of all of… all of that, but it… it really, you know, just…
391
00:39:20.540 --> 00:39:27.289
Dottie Griffin: going through the healing process and being able to let go of that perfectionism, I had to come to the end of myself.
392
00:39:27.740 --> 00:39:28.170
Dawn Bouillion: Like.
393
00:39:28.170 --> 00:39:30.760
Dottie Griffin: thought. You don't have it all figured out.
394
00:39:30.980 --> 00:39:40.929
Ashley Woodard: Because if you did, you wouldn't be in this… this pit of emotional despair that you're in. You know, so those two things weren't adding up.
395
00:39:40.930 --> 00:39:43.750
Dawn Bouillion: If I was being so perfect.
396
00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:47.960
Dottie Griffin: Then, why is my life so chaotic and miserable?
397
00:39:48.160 --> 00:39:56.740
Dottie Griffin: So, it was really just letting go of having that control, which I saw my mom do so much in childhood.
398
00:39:56.860 --> 00:40:03.939
Dottie Griffin: And… learning the language to be able to ask for what I wanted.
399
00:40:04.700 --> 00:40:07.440
Dottie Griffin: You know, and it's… and that… that just…
400
00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:13.800
Dottie Griffin: really helped my marriage so much, because now I'm not expecting my husband to read my mind.
401
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:32.140
Dottie Griffin: Like, why can't you read my mind? We've been married for 40 years, and you still can't read my mind, you know? So… now I have the words to tell him what I need, what I'm thinking, why I'm thinking it, why I'm feeling that way, and guess what? He understands.
402
00:40:32.140 --> 00:40:33.460
Ashley Woodard: Thank you!
403
00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:35.359
Dottie Griffin: Okay, I can help with that.
404
00:40:35.720 --> 00:40:36.420
Dawn Bouillion: -
405
00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:36.880
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
406
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:46.849
Dottie Griffin: And then together, you know, there's no… nobody trying to be perfect or be in charge or in control. Together, we can figure this out.
407
00:40:48.670 --> 00:40:57.670
Dottie Griffin: So, I mean, when you let go of that perfection and, you know, all of those conditions and prejudices that you grow up with.
408
00:40:57.720 --> 00:41:08.820
Dottie Griffin: And really start collaborating and working with people. I love, Ashley, when you talk about finding your people. We talk about that a lot on this podcast, because it's so important.
409
00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:13.350
Ashley Woodard: to find those people. Because you don't have to be…
410
00:41:13.490 --> 00:41:17.070
Dottie Griffin: They applaud you not being perfect.
411
00:41:17.070 --> 00:41:18.760
Dawn Bouillion: Right.
412
00:41:19.040 --> 00:41:21.959
Ashley Woodard: I applaud your uniqueness.
413
00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:25.349
Dottie Griffin: We don't, you know, we're not… we're not…
414
00:41:25.630 --> 00:41:28.880
Dottie Griffin: People are so scared of what they don't know.
415
00:41:30.140 --> 00:41:35.900
Dottie Griffin: So, in those groups where you feel safe, your uniqueness is applauded, it's not feared.
416
00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:37.210
Ashley Woodard: weird. That's…
417
00:41:37.210 --> 00:41:38.640
Dottie Griffin: Beautiful. I love that.
418
00:41:40.100 --> 00:41:41.040
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
419
00:41:41.430 --> 00:41:53.470
Dawn Bouillion: And I think what keeps coming up for me is, as you guys are talking, is a big shift happened for me, too, when I realized that that wasn't God's expectation of me, either.
420
00:41:54.020 --> 00:41:57.480
Ashley Woodard: Right. That he's just love, and He just loves me.
421
00:41:57.650 --> 00:42:08.729
Dawn Bouillion: Not for what I can do. Because I was that Christian that tried to be perfect. I was… if you tell me this is what it looks like to love God, I'm gonna do it, like, 10 times harder.
422
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:22.520
Dawn Bouillion: You know, if you tell me I've gotta do my quiet time every day, and read scriptures for this certain amount of time, and pray for this certain amount of time, if you say it's an hour, I'm gonna be there for two. You know, it's just…
423
00:42:22.690 --> 00:42:28.990
Dawn Bouillion: And so, it took a huge weight off of me when I realized that was never the expectation from him.
424
00:42:29.180 --> 00:42:30.180
Dawn Bouillion: Either.
425
00:42:30.940 --> 00:42:38.740
Dawn Bouillion: and just unlearning all the things that I had learned, right, through therapy and all of that. Also.
426
00:42:39.120 --> 00:42:45.210
Dawn Bouillion: It was like this permission to be a human, and like, that we actually celebrate that, like, you guys are…
427
00:42:45.450 --> 00:42:48.549
Dawn Bouillion: are… are saying. Like, that was so deeply…
428
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:56.870
Dawn Bouillion: embedded in me, thinking that that was the right way, that I had to free myself of this right way.
429
00:42:57.100 --> 00:43:07.820
Dawn Bouillion: thing that if you attain this right way, then you'll be loved and accepted and acceptable and all of that. And so it was just kind of that stripping away of, like.
430
00:43:09.120 --> 00:43:15.540
Dawn Bouillion: Oh, okay, I just get to be me, you know, and I get to be human.
431
00:43:15.650 --> 00:43:19.919
Dawn Bouillion: And it does make a huge difference when you have people in your life.
432
00:43:20.100 --> 00:43:22.649
Ashley Woodard: That celebrate that part of you, you know?
433
00:43:22.650 --> 00:43:27.119
Dawn Bouillion: That celebrate, that create that safety, and invite you.
434
00:43:27.230 --> 00:43:30.110
Dawn Bouillion: To really be authentically you.
435
00:43:30.170 --> 00:43:31.590
Ashley Woodard: with…
436
00:43:31.590 --> 00:43:34.820
Dawn Bouillion: With, you know, that means all of you, right?
437
00:43:35.490 --> 00:43:39.070
Dawn Bouillion: And when you… mess shit up sometimes, you know?
438
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:44.920
Dawn Bouillion: Like… You know, it's something to be fully yourself and to still be loved.
439
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.899
Dawn Bouillion: And to be loved by… by people in that… in that way. So…
440
00:43:51.090 --> 00:43:54.310
Dottie Griffin: I think that was a… that was a huge thing for…
441
00:43:54.910 --> 00:44:01.189
Dawn Bouillion: For me, as well. And then the other thing is that, that self-compassion.
442
00:44:01.420 --> 00:44:07.189
Dawn Bouillion: peace. How has that kind of helped you guys? Like, learning to have compassion for yourself?
443
00:44:08.350 --> 00:44:09.290
Ashley Woodard: Hmm.
444
00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:19.800
Dottie Griffin: That definitely was the pathway to… to my healing is self-compassion. You know, it's learning to love myself. It's…
445
00:44:20.140 --> 00:44:25.890
Dottie Griffin: finding… who DOT really is, authentically.
446
00:44:27.070 --> 00:44:31.410
Dottie Griffin: You know, and… and… I began to have grace.
447
00:44:31.620 --> 00:44:44.109
Dottie Griffin: When I made a mistake. You know, because I let go of that perfectionism, and okay, what can I learn from this now? And, you know, I can talk to myself now with gentleness instead of judgment.
448
00:44:44.390 --> 00:44:53.989
Dottie Griffin: And… I think healing really begins the moment you choose that mercy over self-criticism.
449
00:44:54.260 --> 00:44:55.160
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm.
450
00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:57.930
Dottie Griffin: So…
451
00:44:58.200 --> 00:45:04.519
Dottie Griffin: It's definitely… it's a journey, and it's, you know, it's… it's work, it takes a lot of work, and…
452
00:45:05.260 --> 00:45:09.840
Dottie Griffin: You gotta do a lot of brave things, but it's… it's also worth it.
453
00:45:11.350 --> 00:45:27.570
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, I definitely… yeah, it's… it is… it's a huge journey, you know? It's a… it's a consistent… just like the somatic work, you know? It's a consistent reminder that I have to continue to remind myself to be compassionate towards myself.
454
00:45:27.570 --> 00:45:28.030
Dottie Griffin: Hmm.
455
00:45:28.030 --> 00:45:33.460
Ashley Woodard: And I have to remind myself to give that same compassion that I give to others back to me.
456
00:45:33.610 --> 00:45:34.980
Dawn Bouillion: Right. And…
457
00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:42.709
Ashley Woodard: It's… it's… I mean, self-compassion has been huge in breaking the perfectionism.
458
00:45:42.860 --> 00:45:49.740
Ashley Woodard: And breaking the criticism, and the, you know, all of those things, because it's just… it's… it's…
459
00:45:50.950 --> 00:45:54.140
Ashley Woodard: It's just allowing myself to make mistakes.
460
00:45:55.030 --> 00:45:58.700
Ashley Woodard: And not let those mistakes become defining moments for me.
461
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:04.019
Ashley Woodard: You know, it's allowing myself to… show up.
462
00:46:04.040 --> 00:46:20.920
Ashley Woodard: really real sometimes, and know that, you know, and having those safe people around you is so important, because they're not gonna weaponize it against you. They're not gonna… they're not gonna take that moment of weakness that you showed.
463
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:24.950
Ashley Woodard: and say, oh, that's who she really is. You know, they're gonna be like.
464
00:46:25.150 --> 00:46:27.670
Ashley Woodard: Ashley made a mistake, she had a moment.
465
00:46:28.830 --> 00:46:40.940
Ashley Woodard: Like, you know, and so it's… it's that self-compassion aspect of it, and learning that there are safe people around you that are going to also show you that, and mirror back that compassion.
466
00:46:41.090 --> 00:46:49.320
Ashley Woodard: Because I think if you don't have safe people around you, it's really, really hard to be… to have… to be self-compassionate.
467
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.169
Ashley Woodard: It's gonna make it really difficult. It's gonna continue that cycle.
468
00:46:54.280 --> 00:47:05.730
Ashley Woodard: Of just being critical of yourself and being hard on yourself. But when you surround yourself with people that are also compassionate, and who are gonna show you compassion, and remind you to be compassionate towards yourself.
469
00:47:05.730 --> 00:47:06.880
Dawn Bouillion: It just…
470
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.229
Ashley Woodard: It just keeps… it keeps the…
471
00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:12.060
Ashley Woodard: It keeps you going in the right direction.
472
00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:14.700
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
473
00:47:15.940 --> 00:47:23.909
Dawn Bouillion: I was just thinking I had something happen just recently, where I call it a mom fail with one of my kids.
474
00:47:24.140 --> 00:47:32.960
Dawn Bouillion: And I still think it was Momville, but I had some financial anxiety, and I brought that up to her.
475
00:47:33.100 --> 00:47:40.009
Dawn Bouillion: For a field trip or something that she had, and kind of put that anxiety on her, and��
476
00:47:40.390 --> 00:47:46.299
Dawn Bouillion: she stopped asking me about it, and then the field trip came, and she didn't get to go, and I was just…
477
00:47:46.700 --> 00:47:50.739
Dawn Bouillion: crushed. I was just like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe I did this.
478
00:47:51.100 --> 00:47:53.430
Dawn Bouillion: To her, you know, just that…
479
00:47:54.110 --> 00:48:00.199
Dawn Bouillion: That was a moment that I could have beaten the shit out of myself, and probably would have, in the past.
480
00:48:00.200 --> 00:48:01.400
Ashley Woodard: You know?
481
00:48:01.470 --> 00:48:08.959
Dawn Bouillion: But I was able to give myself some… some compassion, and I was able to tell my friends…
482
00:48:09.290 --> 00:48:20.689
Dawn Bouillion: About it, and, you know, just get some… some comfort and reassurance, and… and also, it was… it was a moment of giving myself permission to be human.
483
00:48:21.810 --> 00:48:40.710
Dawn Bouillion: You know? And it was also a moment I could take to repair that with her, because she was very gracious with me. She was very understanding. But, you know, as a mom, I don't want my kids to feel that responsibility, you know, or that financial anxiety, or whatever.
484
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:45.459
Dawn Bouillion: Whatever that was. But I was able to…
485
00:48:46.220 --> 00:48:56.210
Dawn Bouillion: love myself out of that, you know, into an okay… okay place where I think both of us, you know, end up benefiting.
486
00:48:56.380 --> 00:48:56.890
Dawn Bouillion: from it.
487
00:48:56.890 --> 00:48:58.360
Ashley Woodard: And.
488
00:48:59.070 --> 00:49:00.880
Dottie Griffin: Man, that's the bigger picture.
489
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:01.880
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm…
490
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:05.619
Dottie Griffin: You know, the bigger picture is, she didn't get to go on the field trip.
491
00:49:05.990 --> 00:49:06.430
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
492
00:49:06.430 --> 00:49:14.520
Dottie Griffin: But… She now… Had that interaction with you, where she can trust that you're going to admit
493
00:49:14.740 --> 00:49:16.600
Dottie Griffin: When you've done something…
494
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:28.199
Dottie Griffin: you know, that might have been harmful, or might have been something you wanted to teach her. So now she knows, hey, my mom, my mom can admit that, you know? What a trust! That just builds so much trust.
495
00:49:30.660 --> 00:49:33.880
Dottie Griffin: Between… Parents and children.
496
00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:39.469
Ashley Woodard: And I think it says a lot about you, too, Dawn, that, you know, you're able to…
497
00:49:39.650 --> 00:49:53.050
Ashley Woodard: go back and repair and say, hey, I'm so sorry, you know, I realized that I put this on you, or I made you feel a certain way. And that just… that says so much about your character and who you are as a mom.
498
00:49:53.050 --> 00:49:54.320
Dawn Bouillion: And I feel like.
499
00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:58.800
Ashley Woodard: That's… that's the thing that people don't realize, too, is when we make mistakes.
500
00:49:59.130 --> 00:50:13.140
Ashley Woodard: you know, there's all… they say there's more power in the repair than anything. Like, the repair is the most powerful part of any conflict, and so it's like, if you can get to the repair, because some people can't even get to the repair.
501
00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:13.950
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
502
00:50:13.950 --> 00:50:20.910
Ashley Woodard: You know, so it's like, if you can even get to the repair, that's just so powerful, and that's… that can be so healing and so redemptive.
503
00:50:21.150 --> 00:50:23.730
Ashley Woodard: And, yeah.
504
00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:25.070
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm…
505
00:50:25.070 --> 00:50:26.699
Dottie Griffin: Love that.
506
00:50:26.700 --> 00:50:27.430
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
507
00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:28.760
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
508
00:50:28.890 --> 00:50:39.430
Dawn Bouillion: That, well, I was just thinking, you guys are making me thinking… think, like, if I was in a perfectionistic mode, how different that conversation would have gone.
509
00:50:39.430 --> 00:50:39.960
Ashley Woodard: Back.
510
00:50:40.670 --> 00:50:44.899
Dawn Bouillion: You know? Or how much I would have probably gone into a shame place.
511
00:50:45.940 --> 00:50:51.740
Dawn Bouillion: Not been able to… Offer that comfort and not make it about me in that moment.
512
00:50:51.740 --> 00:50:52.390
Ashley Woodard: Oh my god.
513
00:50:52.390 --> 00:50:54.380
Dawn Bouillion: But more be able to care for her.
514
00:50:55.080 --> 00:50:55.970
Ashley Woodard: Wow.
515
00:50:55.970 --> 00:50:58.260
Dottie Griffin: Love it. That's powerful.
516
00:50:59.070 --> 00:50:59.990
Ashley Woodard: It's been very good.
517
00:50:59.990 --> 00:51:00.470
Dottie Griffin: Beautiful.
518
00:51:01.250 --> 00:51:03.400
Dawn Bouillion: It was still a mom fail, but…
519
00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:04.560
Ashley Woodard: I'm great.
520
00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:07.489
Dawn Bouillion: I'm grateful for the growth, you know.
521
00:51:07.490 --> 00:51:09.689
Dottie Griffin: Getting it is not the battle.
522
00:51:09.690 --> 00:51:10.510
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah, and…
523
00:51:10.990 --> 00:51:22.219
Dawn Bouillion: if that helps my kids learn that it's okay to make mistakes, or it helps them learn that, you know, I'm going to be honest when I do.
524
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:28.300
Dawn Bouillion: and that makes them feel more safe with me, then obviously that's what… that's what I want, you know?
525
00:51:28.570 --> 00:51:29.080
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
526
00:51:29.870 --> 00:51:30.480
Dottie Griffin: Hmm.
527
00:51:30.610 --> 00:51:35.749
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, because that makes me think about, you know, perfectionism, a big part of it is…
528
00:51:35.910 --> 00:51:39.380
Ashley Woodard: You know, not being able to admit mistakes, as well.
529
00:51:40.170 --> 00:51:44.360
Ashley Woodard: So it's like, if you're in perfectionism mode, you're not gonna admit you're wrong.
530
00:51:44.380 --> 00:51:45.620
Dawn Bouillion: Because you can't.
531
00:51:46.120 --> 00:51:57.840
Ashley Woodard: Because it shatters the illusion of perfectionism and control, and, you know, and that's something that's been really important to me with my kids, too, is being able to apologize.
532
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:05.690
Ashley Woodard: You know, and I've seen other people's faces when I apologize to my kids who aren't used to that, and they'll kind of be like.
533
00:52:05.910 --> 00:52:09.129
Ashley Woodard: You know, you're apologizing to your kids, you know?
534
00:52:10.190 --> 00:52:19.880
Ashley Woodard: But it's so important when you make a mistake to apologize to your kids, because that… it can, like Dottie said, it can… it can create
535
00:52:20.260 --> 00:52:27.720
Ashley Woodard: This hope for them that they can make mistakes, and that repair is possible, and that it's okay for us to make mistakes.
536
00:52:33.940 --> 00:52:39.590
Dawn Bouillion: So, Dottie, I see that smile on your face.
537
00:52:39.590 --> 00:52:44.460
Dottie Griffin: So good. It really is. You know, it brings me so much joy.
538
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:45.200
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
539
00:52:45.200 --> 00:52:53.380
Dottie Griffin: To hear that, you know, these are… this is what's happening in some family units.
540
00:52:53.380 --> 00:52:54.060
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm…
541
00:52:54.060 --> 00:52:56.789
Dottie Griffin: That's what I wanted so bad as a child.
542
00:52:56.790 --> 00:52:57.640
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
543
00:52:57.640 --> 00:53:03.120
Dottie Griffin: You know, and just to be seen and loved, and, you know, but…
544
00:53:03.630 --> 00:53:04.240
Dawn Bouillion: Hmm.
545
00:53:05.120 --> 00:53:10.880
Dottie Griffin: I can… I can now do that with my own child, and I love seeing it in… in your families.
546
00:53:11.050 --> 00:53:12.000
Dawn Bouillion: Aww.
547
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:13.859
Dawn Bouillion: That's really sweet, Dottie.
548
00:53:15.610 --> 00:53:25.490
Dawn Bouillion: So… We have talked about self-compassion, we've talked about giving ourselves permission to be human.
549
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:33.599
Dawn Bouillion: And then how we practice grace, when we do fall short, or when we do make.
550
00:53:34.060 --> 00:53:40.279
Dawn Bouillion: make mistakes. Do y'all want to say anything else about that, or… or…
551
00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:44.429
Dawn Bouillion: You feel like you, you shared what you wanted to share.
552
00:53:46.190 --> 00:53:49.360
Dawn Bouillion: Practicing grace instead of shame when we make a mistake.
553
00:53:49.670 --> 00:53:50.100
Dottie Griffin: Huh.
554
00:53:50.100 --> 00:53:57.570
Dawn Bouillion: I went first, I shared an example, so… How are we doing with that, lady?
555
00:53:58.930 --> 00:54:00.199
Dottie Griffin: You know, I…
556
00:54:00.310 --> 00:54:15.989
Dottie Griffin: I mentioned it in the prior podcast about my daughter, and realizing the mistakes I made with her growing up, and just being able to have that conversation with her, and to just apologize to her for
557
00:54:16.270 --> 00:54:22.960
Dottie Griffin: you know, not allowing her to be her authentic self, because I… I was trying to create this…
558
00:54:23.220 --> 00:54:25.760
Dottie Griffin: Perfect family as well, and…
559
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:29.049
Dawn Bouillion: When I learned, you know, none of that was possible, and.
560
00:54:29.050 --> 00:54:34.150
Dottie Griffin: I saw her for the beautiful, beautiful person that she is.
561
00:54:34.340 --> 00:54:37.319
Ashley Woodard: You know, that opened my eyes, and…
562
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.150
Dottie Griffin: So, I, too…
563
00:54:39.550 --> 00:54:49.289
Dottie Griffin: was able to have that moment with her. It's a moment I'll never get with my own mom. I don't know that it would have ever been possible, you know, with her mental illness, but…
564
00:54:50.930 --> 00:54:55.710
Dottie Griffin: I broke that cycle and had that conversation with my daughter.
565
00:54:55.710 --> 00:54:56.359
Ashley Woodard: That's right.
566
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:59.150
Dottie Griffin: Hopefully, if she ever has any kids, then…
567
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:02.360
Dottie Griffin: She'll parent more like you ladies are parenting me.
568
00:55:05.370 --> 00:55:10.489
Ashley Woodard: And you know, when you share that too, Dottie, it's kind of like you're also giving that to yourself.
569
00:55:10.580 --> 00:55:11.540
Dawn Bouillion: You know? Yep.
570
00:55:12.140 --> 00:55:15.600
Dawn Bouillion: at the same time. I mean, there's so many ways when we are
571
00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:24.380
Dawn Bouillion: parenting our kids the way that we wish we were parented, that we're also doing that for our little girl. You know, little Dottie, too.
572
00:55:24.520 --> 00:55:25.490
Dawn Bouillion: You know?
573
00:55:25.610 --> 00:55:27.180
Dottie Griffin: Oh, I got that.
574
00:55:27.180 --> 00:55:28.749
Dawn Bouillion: Which is really sweet.
575
00:55:28.750 --> 00:55:29.690
Dottie Griffin: Yeah.
576
00:55:30.240 --> 00:55:32.320
Dawn Bouillion: We're all about redemption over here. We're all.
577
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:32.680
Ashley Woodard: on the home.
578
00:55:32.680 --> 00:55:36.480
Dawn Bouillion: The reframing and the reclaiming.
579
00:55:38.310 --> 00:55:42.570
Dawn Bouillion: And not just for the people in our life, but also for ourselves.
580
00:55:42.640 --> 00:55:43.200
Dottie Griffin: 2.
581
00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:44.690
Ashley Woodard: Yeah.
582
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:50.170
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, and I definitely think for me, too, you know, I haven't always been the…
583
00:55:50.900 --> 00:56:00.759
Ashley Woodard: you know, the parent I am now. And there was a lot of things that, you know, when I… and I was a young parent, too, and so I just didn't know a lot of things, and…
584
00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:08.140
Ashley Woodard: I think there were a lot of things that I carried on into my kids that have changed drastically over the years.
585
00:56:09.150 --> 00:56:24.320
Ashley Woodard: Because when we first started having kids, I don't know that we ever apologized. You know, I don't know that we ever admitted that we made mistakes, and we'd just be like, you just need to listen and respect us, and, you know, just kind of like the old school 90s parenting.
586
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:25.090
Dawn Bouillion: Nice.
587
00:56:25.090 --> 00:56:26.219
Ashley Woodard: And,
588
00:56:26.630 --> 00:56:41.219
Ashley Woodard: So there's a part of me, too, that feels that regret for the parent that I was, or for the mistakes that I've made in the past, and it's even more so that I have to extend that compassion back to, you know, that earlier
589
00:56:41.220 --> 00:56:48.930
Ashley Woodard: me in parenting, you know, and that earlier me, who was a perfectionist and just trying her best and trying to…
590
00:56:49.090 --> 00:56:51.599
Ashley Woodard: You know, appease, and trying to…
591
00:56:51.900 --> 00:57:01.830
Ashley Woodard: cared so much what people thought, and it makes me nauseous how much I cared, what people thought. Like, thinking about it now, I'm like, ugh!
592
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:05.470
Ashley Woodard: You know, but,
593
00:57:05.560 --> 00:57:17.680
Ashley Woodard: But I have to look back to that part of me, too, and still show compassion to her, because she was just surviving, and she was doing the best she could.
594
00:57:17.680 --> 00:57:32.810
Ashley Woodard: And she made a lot of mistakes, and she did a lot of things that make me nauseous thinking about it now, you know? But I'm like, she was just doing the best she could, and all of those versions of me took me to who I am now.
595
00:57:33.140 --> 00:57:44.169
Ashley Woodard: And I couldn't be who I am today without all of those versions of me, and all of those mistakes that I made. And so it's that… it's just another piece of that perfectionism, and that…
596
00:57:44.300 --> 00:57:53.690
Ashley Woodard: You know, self-compassion, of looking back on all those versions of me, and being like, she was still good, and she was still doing the best, and she was still…
597
00:57:54.140 --> 00:57:58.920
Ashley Woodard: Working and trying, and just doing the best she could.
598
00:58:01.160 --> 00:58:01.650
Dottie Griffin: Yeah.
599
00:58:01.650 --> 00:58:09.120
Dawn Bouillion: Mmm, I can so relate to that. I have had to apologize to my children for the way I inherited.
600
00:58:09.490 --> 00:58:17.159
Dawn Bouillion: early on, which in my mind was probably more thinking that I was being perfect, like, thinking I was… I was…
601
00:58:17.680 --> 00:58:20.750
Ashley Woodard: Following the Christian parenting book.
602
00:58:20.970 --> 00:58:24.059
Dawn Bouillion: In the best way possible, you know, which is…
603
00:58:24.170 --> 00:58:30.469
Dawn Bouillion: Which, unfortunately, I was. And… but that wasn't necessarily good for my kids.
604
00:58:30.470 --> 00:58:30.890
Ashley Woodard: at the.
605
00:58:30.890 --> 00:58:33.299
Dawn Bouillion: I thought I was doing the right thing.
606
00:58:33.820 --> 00:58:43.329
Dawn Bouillion: But now, looking back, that was… that was more harmful than… than helpful, but to be compassionate to myself is… that's what I…
607
00:58:43.590 --> 00:58:47.720
Dawn Bouillion: That's what I knew, that's what I was taught was… was… good.
608
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:53.100
Dawn Bouillion: So I have definitely apologized to my children, especially my older ones that grew up with me.
609
00:58:53.490 --> 00:59:11.840
Dawn Bouillion: not letting them apparently watch Find a Nemo or something. Like, I don't even know why now, I'm like… but that's just the person that I was, and my kids are very grateful that I'm not that girl anymore. A dangerous little fish.
610
00:59:14.580 --> 00:59:29.199
Dawn Bouillion: But you know what's interesting is there's some ways I've swung to the opposite end of the pendulum, and I'm like, I hope you guys are better parents than me one day. Oh, man.
611
00:59:29.820 --> 00:59:33.879
Dawn Bouillion: But yeah, it's all… it's all crazy.
612
00:59:35.030 --> 00:59:44.939
Dawn Bouillion: So, ladies, if we have someone listening to us today and listening to this conversation, that is still…
613
00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:57.679
Dawn Bouillion: afraid to stop pursuing that perfectionism, or afraid to drop that ball and not be perfect anymore, because they're afraid if they do, everything's gonna fall apart, like…
614
00:59:58.240 --> 01:00:00.789
Dawn Bouillion: Do you have any words to offer to those?
615
01:00:01.470 --> 01:00:04.310
Dawn Bouillion: Those maybe listening in that space.
616
01:00:06.490 --> 01:00:09.709
Ashley Woodard: I would say, let it all fall apart.
617
01:00:11.560 --> 01:00:17.239
Ashley Woodard: where it goes. Let people pick up the pieces. You don't have to pick up all the pieces.
618
01:00:18.040 --> 01:00:25.760
Ashley Woodard: If you let it go, somebody's gonna help you, somebody's gonna step in, and you're gonna find out who those people are.
619
01:00:25.960 --> 01:00:27.400
Dawn Bouillion: And…
620
01:00:28.550 --> 01:00:39.129
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, because that kept me, that fear kept me in that hypervigilance, that hyper, you know, everything, hyper-independence, all of that for so long.
621
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:45.930
Ashley Woodard: And I realized that as I'm letting go, that… It's okay.
622
01:00:46.050 --> 01:01:04.409
Ashley Woodard: that the world didn't blow up like I thought it would, you know? I let go of the, you know, the idea of what I thought, like, people's perception, just trying to control that, trying to control, you know, my kids, or the people around me. Like, once I let it all go.
623
01:01:04.410 --> 01:01:07.809
Dawn Bouillion: I realized that I really didn't have any control to begin with.
624
01:01:08.120 --> 01:01:11.319
Ashley Woodard: And… and nothing fell apart.
625
01:01:12.030 --> 01:01:27.430
Ashley Woodard: You know, the world kept turning, and it kept doing its thing, and I'm okay. I'm okay on the other side. Better than ever, because now I'm not carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders, and I'm…
626
01:01:27.430 --> 01:01:27.930
Dawn Bouillion: Yes.
627
01:01:27.930 --> 01:01:34.810
Ashley Woodard: I'm more relaxed, I'm more just letting people do their thing, and doing my thing.
628
01:01:35.130 --> 01:01:37.660
Ashley Woodard: Yeah, and it's beautiful. It's freeing.
629
01:01:39.070 --> 01:01:45.440
Dottie Griffin: I love that, I love that, and you know, I'll go back to kind of what we said before, is that perfectionism is an illusion.
630
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:49.009
Dawn Bouillion: So if you're afraid of letting go of perfection, then…
631
01:01:49.010 --> 01:01:53.459
Dottie Griffin: you know, it's really just an illusion. It's not reality, and…
632
01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:54.000
Ashley Woodard: Mmm.
633
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:59.270
Dottie Griffin: Like Ashley, I say let it go, and take a chance on yourself.
634
01:01:59.510 --> 01:02:04.009
Dottie Griffin: On finding… on loving yourself just the way you are.
635
01:02:04.720 --> 01:02:11.659
Dottie Griffin: And… As you begin to peel all those layers of performance back.
636
01:02:11.860 --> 01:02:14.140
Dawn Bouillion: Start peeling them back.
637
01:02:14.170 --> 01:02:17.549
Dottie Griffin: I think you're gonna discover a gem.
638
01:02:18.610 --> 01:02:23.680
Dottie Griffin: And you're gonna discover the gift of being unapologetically you.
639
01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:32.689
Dottie Griffin: And you're gonna know that perfection is really not needed to feel love, and you're gonna find peace in your mind, and freedom in your soul, baby.
640
01:02:35.490 --> 01:02:36.950
Dawn Bouillion: Let's go!
641
01:02:36.950 --> 01:02:37.470
Dottie Griffin: Go!
642
01:02:38.940 --> 01:02:42.109
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah, and I'll say I was afraid of that, too.
643
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:48.330
Dawn Bouillion: And it kept me in bondage for so, so long, and… Honestly,
644
01:02:48.810 --> 01:02:54.720
Dawn Bouillion: when I let things go, things did fall apart, and some of my greatest fears did come true.
645
01:02:54.870 --> 01:02:55.370
Ashley Woodard: But…
646
01:02:55.370 --> 01:02:58.039
Dawn Bouillion: And on the other side of that, I found me.
647
01:02:58.370 --> 01:03:07.249
Dawn Bouillion: And on the other side of that, I found my authentic self that can actually have a voice and matter, and you can't put a price tag
648
01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:10.960
Dawn Bouillion: on the peace that I feel now. On…
649
01:03:11.240 --> 01:03:24.479
Dawn Bouillion: On being able to live authentically, connected to myself, without shutting parts of myself down, and without, you know, trying to fit into some mold that everyone else wants me
650
01:03:24.680 --> 01:03:26.080
Dawn Bouillion: To fit into.
651
01:03:26.370 --> 01:03:26.890
Ashley Woodard: Hmm.
652
01:03:26.890 --> 01:03:28.400
Dawn Bouillion: And so…
653
01:03:28.980 --> 01:03:36.570
Dawn Bouillion: I mean, I'll just say, I know it's scary. I totally understand that aspect of it, and I'll say.
654
01:03:36.860 --> 01:03:41.680
Dawn Bouillion: But it is worth it. It is worth it to…
655
01:03:43.660 --> 01:03:56.890
Dawn Bouillion: to no longer be abandoning your… yourself, and to actually be living your life for… for you, and connected to you. That's actually truly living.
656
01:03:57.030 --> 01:04:02.419
Dawn Bouillion: I think what the three of us are describing and trying to keep putting words to…
657
01:04:02.730 --> 01:04:12.640
Dawn Bouillion: Is that real, true, authentic living that's connected, that celebrates our humanity, that celebrates our differences.
658
01:04:12.700 --> 01:04:27.789
Dawn Bouillion: It celebrates our stories, it celebrates our voices, it truly works to lift each other up, and to… and what I believe is, when we do that, we're better and stronger together.
659
01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:32.419
Dawn Bouillion: We're better… we're stronger individually as who we are, uniquely.
660
01:04:32.590 --> 01:04:39.299
Dawn Bouillion: But we're also stronger together, being held up and celebrated by one another.
661
01:04:39.540 --> 01:04:45.700
Dawn Bouillion: So I just say, it's so worth it. You know, like… It really is.
662
01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:51.019
Dawn Bouillion: So,
663
01:04:51.960 --> 01:05:00.339
Dawn Bouillion: If you guys listening, have resonated with what we've talked about today, and if perfectionism has been your way of staying safe.
664
01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:03.969
Dawn Bouillion: I want you to know that you can rest.
665
01:05:04.140 --> 01:05:09.710
Dawn Bouillion: Now, we are, you know, here to show you that that is possible.
666
01:05:10.150 --> 01:05:16.029
Dawn Bouillion: You don't have to earn your worth or hold it all together. You are enough.
667
01:05:16.230 --> 01:05:18.340
Dawn Bouillion: Right here, as you are.
668
01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:29.919
Dawn Bouillion: So, ladies, just one more, opportunity. What truth do you want to leave with our listeners?
669
01:05:30.070 --> 01:05:36.009
Dawn Bouillion: About their worth, or their enoughness, or whatever you want to leave them before we close out today.
670
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:52.390
Ashley Woodard: I would say, that you… I would say give yourself permission to be human.
671
01:05:53.570 --> 01:05:55.839
Ashley Woodard: Give yourself permission to make mistakes.
672
01:05:55.970 --> 01:05:57.340
Dawn Bouillion: to himself.
673
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:00.559
Ashley Woodard: Permission to show up authentically.
674
01:06:04.220 --> 01:06:09.500
Ashley Woodard: And just let yourself… Yeah, just let yourself be human.
675
01:06:09.500 --> 01:06:16.010
Dawn Bouillion: That it's okay, that it's safe. And if you can create that safe space in yourself.
676
01:06:16.150 --> 01:06:18.860
Ashley Woodard: Where you allow yourself to be human.
677
01:06:18.860 --> 01:06:21.080
Dawn Bouillion: And you have that self-compassion.
678
01:06:21.080 --> 01:06:24.510
Ashley Woodard: You're basically gonna be… Unstoppable.
679
01:06:24.930 --> 01:06:25.690
Dawn Bouillion: That's right.
680
01:06:27.690 --> 01:06:30.820
Dottie Griffin: Yeah, and I just say, find the people who love you for who you are.
681
01:06:30.820 --> 01:06:34.160
Ashley Woodard: Build your life around that kind of community.
682
01:06:35.130 --> 01:06:40.450
Dottie Griffin: And, you know, it may take some time, and it might push you out of your comfort zone.
683
01:06:41.130 --> 01:06:49.339
Dottie Griffin: But when you find those people, that's when you discover that, you know, like I said, perfection's no longer needed to feel loved.
684
01:06:51.030 --> 01:06:51.740
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah.
685
01:06:51.740 --> 01:06:52.620
Ashley Woodard: Love that.
686
01:06:53.890 --> 01:06:59.030
Dawn Bouillion: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful words, and I'll just say, you're worth it.
687
01:06:59.310 --> 01:07:05.310
Dawn Bouillion: Like I usually say, you're worth it, you're worth whatever it takes for you to be able to experience that.
688
01:07:05.520 --> 01:07:06.560
Ashley Woodard: Hmm.
689
01:07:07.370 --> 01:07:10.990
Dawn Bouillion: Because you were never meant to be perfect, you were meant to be whole.
690
01:07:11.570 --> 01:07:19.049
Dawn Bouillion: You matter, your story matters, and the world needs you. Not the polished version, but the real one.
691
01:07:20.390 --> 01:07:22.799
Dawn Bouillion: And… you're not that girl anymore.