Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink, Wednesday, September tenth.

One of my favorite Big Ten Hoops writers on this week's episode of Podcasts on the Brink Dylan Burkhart.

If you follow the Big Ten, if you follow Michigan, you know him of um hoops dot com.

Before we get to Dylan, I wanted to take a quick second ask you kindly to leave us a five star rating review over on Apple Podcasts, over on Spotify.

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Dylan A week later.

I guess we do this podcast last year.

I think we did it the week that we finished the Big Ten list.

Welcome back to the show, Dylan, How you doing.

I was great to be on.

I feel like our list was less controversial this year, hopefully.

I don't know if that makes it a better or worse list, but always good to be back on the show and thanks for having me.

Yeah.

For those maybe who just listen to the podcast, maybe don't check out all of our written content.

I think I added it up and included it in this year's right up that this is year thirteen of Dylan and I going through ranking the top players in the Big Ten.

What started out as a top twenty five list last year expanded to forty players because the Big Ten obviously added four teams.

I think it would have been incredibly difficult to rank twenty five players in an eighteen team league, so been a little bit more work on our end, but we're happy to do it as two sites that primarily well inside the Hall now doing a little football coverage, but Dylan primarily focuses on Michigan basketball.

Run.

You have hoops, we talk hoops, We do everything in terms of basketball year round.

So the list for us, I think, in many ways is away for us in the preseason to kind of get geared up for our preseason content and familiarize ourselves with the rosters in the Big Ten.

But more than anything else, the last couple of years, with the transfer portal and all of the movement and the Big Ten, it's kind of become necessary to really dig into to all these teams and all these new players.

It's crazy to think of how much the sport has changed in the last four or five years, don't.

I mean from when we started doing this list to now, what's maybe been the biggest change in your mind in terms of how we go about this exercise and how we kind of approach this on a year to year basis.

Yeah, Well, the sheer size of the league I think plays a big factor.

Just in terms of eighteen teams.

The idea of even doing a twenty five person list is almost irrelevant.

Right You're looking at that'll be the best player on every team and then seven other guys.

It's not even that big of a group.

And I think what really stands out as we get into this portal era is obviously you can look and many of the top five, top ten, Top twenty players are transfers.

A lot haven't played in the big ten.

We don't really know how they're gonna fare.

I think last year shows how far off we can be when we look at some of these transfers.

No one in the world had John Tanji anywhere close to top forty.

All of a sudden, He's incredible, and there's just so many players can fall through the gaps in this analysis, and there's definitely I think group think has always been a big part of college basketball in the offseason when it comes to teams and the teams that are crowned the top ten preseason teams in April, right after the Final Four, after the portal, after the draft, like that just becomes accepted.

And if you really look back through the years, I know the preseason polls are usually somewhat accurate, but they're not that accurate.

And I do think sometimes just taking a step back to think about things that as a hole and reset that without your priors can be really useful.

But generally with the list and I think the revenue sharing the nil every Big ten team has a really good player, I would say in a way that maybe they wouldn't have had ten years ago when we were doing this list.

Right, it's pretty the amount of top level talent I think in the league is in a good spot, and there are like if you don't like your point guard, well it's your own damn fault because you went out and got it right.

Like that's the thing that kind of stands out is it's almost more like an NBA team roster construction, where everyone has a max player, everyone has a second highest paid player, everyone has kind of the same roster breakdown in that sense, So it's hard to be like, you're not just having a really good player used to be enough to maybe put you.

Ahead of the rest of the league.

And if you didn't have a really good player, if you couldn't get that, if you missed that guy in high school two years ago, your whole season was kind of doomed.

I don't think that really applies now, and I think that makes it really interesting at the top of the lists, not to you have a guy who is a top fifteen, top twenty players.

Is that guy better than the best guy on Oregon or the best guy in Indiana?

And I think the hierarchy of things has really changed and shifted kind of the at least the way I look at the rosters in the offseason.

Before we kind of dive into the list.

Obviously, we're not going to go player about player because we don't don't have time for that, and I don't think anyone wants to hear a forty player Big Ten Breakdown podcast.

But I wanted to ask you something I talked to Jordan Majeski a couple weeks ago on a podcast.

Not sure if you listen to it or not.

But one thing I'm curious, and I like to pick your brain on this stuff because you study this stuff super close, and I know you're super familiar with the portal, but with all of the up transfers to the Big Ten, and I know Michigan's had its fair share of up transfers even going back before the portal really became what it was what it is now when you look at guys that are moving up from a smaller league, and Jordan kind of talked about, you know how, finishing at the rim and high two point percentage kind of being a red flag for maybe not transferring working for transfers up for reguards specifically.

But are there any things, I think anything that you look at statistically or when you watch guys on film and say this could be a red flag this, this does work in terms of transferring up or anything you say that maybe a guy does this that that should work at any level of college basketball.

Yeah, I think there's two ways to look at it.

For the most part, I think there are some baseline indicators of Okay, is this guy talented enough to play at a higher level, right, whether that's looking at block and steel rate to kind of gauge up the lettuce and whether that's rebounding percentages, whether it's I think finishing at the rim is a great one, like can you finish at the rim?

Do you shoot better than fifty percent on twos?

Do you have a scalable game?

Things like that, But really, I think a lot comes down to role more than anything.

I think if you look at you can have a really successful year if you're scaling down your role sometimes or but really just if you're in the right role.

And if you need a guy to come in and be your best player and he's a mid major low major up transfer, you might have some issues, right if you want him to do the exact same thing he did, But if you need him to maybe maybe he's the best guy on a Missouri Valley team, but you need him to be your third best guy.

Just defend, just shoot threes, just do one or two things.

I think then it becomes a lot easier.

And this year I think you saw almost like the idea of just an uptransfer.

I don't know if it still applies in the sense that there are some up transfers who are.

Like mid major league players the year.

And that's a lot different than a guy who's maybe like a low major starter or third team All conference guy, right, Like, are you coming from the Asan, are you coming from the Mountain West?

Like?

We have to really kind of hone into what these leagues are and then also what these players can do, right Like Donovan Dent, Bennett SERTs.

These are pretty unique guys who are coming up into the league.

At the same time, I think there'll probably be a couple guys coming from low majors that surprise everyone and no one really saw it coming.

And I think that's the thing is, it's not that you can't succeed if you're coming up from a thirtieth ranked league on Ken Palm to the Big ten.

It's that maybe your chances of this not working or that not working fall through, the fall down a bit lower, and not everyone hits, right, it's just your hit rate that's going to change more than anything.

So kind of looking at the top of the list, at least the top ten, the seem to me, I mean, the guard play in the league seems to be really strong this year.

No, there was a period going back through four or five years where it was a big man dominant dominated the league yet Trace Jackson Davis, you had Zach Edy.

There was others obviously that were really strong, really good front court players.

You know, Hunter Dickinson at Michigan was kind of in that class too.

This year you look at you know, there's Braydon Smith's you mentioned Sturts and Dat, also Bruce Thornton and Jackson Jackson.

Chel said all in our top ten, is this as deep are as talented of a group in terms of big ten point guards that we've seen in quite some time, And in terms of Brayden Smith.

I know, for me, I don't want to speak for you, but it was pretty cut and dry for us to kind of go ahead and slot him in at number one on the list.

Yeah, Braiden Smith, I think number one.

If anyone is making an argument that Braden Smith isn't the preseason number one player in the league, I'm not really sure what that would be other than like maybe he just has enough, he doesn't have to do as much.

But I would say he's still like he's tier maybe two tiers above the rest.

I would say just in terms of what he's accomplished, he's in the exact same role, and honestly, it's hard to find guys to make an argument to surpass them, right, Like, it's not like there's an obvious number two.

I would almost say in a lot of ways, as far as the point guards, I would say it's probably the most point guard heavy the league has been since sort of those Cassius Winston, Xavier Simpson was that, like, not Mellow Trimble who there was just like a group of guards.

Anthony Anthony Cowen was in that year.

Like there was one year around there, like nineteen twenty where I think there were probably four or five guards in the top eight in the league and there was sort of that point guard crop bubbling, and then it went into the Big Man era with Kofi, with Dickinson, with Edie, with produced bigs, Like it was just over and over where it was just the Big Man League.

It's funny, though, because the perception nationally of the Big Ten hasn't really changed.

People are still going to say the same things about the Big Ten, and we don't really know.

What Bennetts, Starts and Donovan Dent are going to be.

Are they going to be all American level point guards in the Big Ten?

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, because I think they're two of the bigger swing pieces in the list where I think they clearly have done everything to be established top five players in the preseason, but I don't think they're The range of outcomes is much wider than some other guys on the list, I would.

Say, yeah.

But even the thing that kind of stands out to me too going into the bigs, and you mentioned those players that had been in the league formerly, not guys that really were versatile anyway in terms of stretching.

The four are being able to do those things.

But you look at the list, I mean Nate Biddle Ivisitch of Illinois, Nolan Winner of Wisconsin obviously is more mobile than a lot of bigs, Tyler Billadeau of UCLA, even going down you know to sixteen.

Yeah, Yeahkxel.

I mean those those are all different than the traditional big man that that's dominated the Big Ten.

I think you make a good point.

I mean, everyone talks about the Big Ten being this physical, you know, grind grinder league and the paint and there's gonna still be some of that, but I do think it's actually a good thing for the league that they've gotten away from that and become a little bit more versatile and having big zickns spread the flame, it makes it, it makes a more enjoyable product to watch.

I would say hopefully.

Hopefully, I mean we'll have to see.

I mean maybe it all gets bogged down into Big Ten basketball anyways.

Like I don't think we know that for sure, right, And a lot of those guys are very good.

You also like maybe it's a farrel pain and Mares Johnson and TKR, like those are still guys who are gonna do all their work around the basket.

They're gonna punish you.

So I do think there's there's a give and take with it.

I think everyone wants the skilled bigs to succeed.

But I also think what we've learned in the Big Ten, even last year, is the toughest team on the glass and in the paint is usually the one that's gonna win games.

And Michigan State will attest to that, right, like they did that last year.

And they don't even have bigs on this list, but that high up on this list.

But again, like Jackson, Kohler is gonna be there.

He's gonna be averaging twelve and eight and doing his thing, like I think it's I don't think there's one way.

And honestly, the Big Ten is so spread out and there's just so much diversity in the league in a way that there didn't used to be that.

I think any style can work.

Right.

You're gonna have Iowa playing at the slowest tempo in the country.

You're gonna have Michigan trying to play fast.

You're gonna have Purdue doing what they do.

Ucla their coach and point guard want to go opposite speeds.

Who can't wait to see how that plays out.

So there's a lot of diversity in the league, which makes it a lot more I think fun to analyze, but maybe harder to predict.

Right, Like back in the day, everyone was trying to play the way that Michigan State played or trying like you had to beat that or defeat that.

And now you play most teams one time, like it doesn't really matter if they play a different way.

You don't have as much It's not like a round robin double play where you have to be able to deal with the same style teams over and over again.

So the.

One thing that started out to me is we kind of worked through this and the Blue Ribbon College year, but came out over the weekend and I compared our top five to their preseason Big Ten list, and obviously we didn't see that before we did our list.

It was the same.

So maybe not as much controversy this year in the list.

I don't know if we're falling into that group thing that you talked about a little bit earlier.

But I felt like we had as I don't want to say as easy, but an easier time this year, maybe putting it together.

At least at the top.

It seemed to be a little bit more consensus.

But the first guy that I want to talk about that we I guess kind of rolled the dice and took a chance on was Nolan Winner at twelve.

I think some people, if they were going to try to pick apart our list and say this is a guy that maybe doesn't deserve to be ranked where he is, it would be him.

What about what about.

No?

One?

Winner kind of gave you the confidence to put him up there.

I'm also high on two, I think in many reasons, in many ways just because I feel like every year we try to like pick apart Wisconsin and figure out a way that they're going to take a slide backwards, and it's happened so long now that to me, it feels like that's just not going to happen.

And they continue to develop players, particularly in the front court.

Maybe they're a little bit under recruited, maybe that obviously don't have an NBA future, but they end up staying in the program for four even five years in the case of Stephen Krowe with the COVID year and kind of outperform what you would expect and Winner to me kind of seems like the next in line for that.

And if you buy Wisconsin as a top four or five Big Ten team going into the season, which I do at least at this point based on what they've done historically, he kind of feels like the guy that's going to take a leap.

Is that kind of where you landed in terms of your thoughts on him?

Yeah, I was just the funny part with Wisconsin is it used to always be never bet against the defense, and Greg Gard was a defensive guy.

But they've gone to this continuity ball screen and they're just churning out all big ten players on the perimeter that no one really expects to be at that level, and I think what they're doing on offense is a really interesting part of this conversation because like we had Nick Boyd in the last spot in the list, I think we had John Blackwell pretty high overall that in the sense that I think we're high in him, and I think both those guys really fit what they want to do, just like Nolan Winter fits right.

Like I think what he showed his ability to finish inside.

I think he shot a really high percent, like sixty five plus on twos, he can shoot the three.

I think his ability to do.

Both of those things and just without crawl there, I think there's gonna be a lot more pressure on him, and I think he was likely to put up a lot more impressive offensive numbers.

I know he had some dips in form or consistency at different points last year, but another year a system that I really trust, like the pick and pop three is a big part of what they're able to do within that kind of ball screen action, and they're gonna have They're gonna have the ability.

To do that.

I think the questions with him are defensively, like Kenny hold Up as the most physical big on the team.

Kral was kind of.

His enforcer next to him, and it's just a bet on his potential.

I think he checks the boxes for what you want.

In a kind of developing big man.

The concern is, you could probably say some recent Wisconsin biggs, like it used to be everyone's on that Frank Kaminsky curve where you actually go all the way up.

You could say someone like Kral kind of tapered off a bit, had some ups and downs.

He was there, he logged a lot of games, he had his moments, but it was never maybe quite what you had hoped.

And so I think that's maybe the question is can Winter snap that streak?

Can he really break out?

And I think he has a great chance.

I think just playing more, being more involved in the offense, like he's so efficient with his touches already, I think he'll he can scale up nicely for them.

One guy that I think we both looked at on second glance and thought, maybe this is too low and this is kind of digging down a little bit deeper in the list.

But you look at Farrel Payne of Maryland down at twenty three, and Maryland to me seems like a team that is going to be somewhere category to like an Iowa in Indiana, in the middle of the pack of the league, maybe fighting for an NCAA tournament.

Brooke.

We have him as the highest ranked Maryland player.

He's familiar with the league from his time at Minnesota.

He was really good last year at Texas A and M familiar obviously with Buzz Williams, liked it enough to follow him to the college park.

To me, he is a guy that I think looking back on this saying he's going to be All Big ten or first or second team, but he could be a guy by seasons in that is thirteam All Big Ten, you know, averaging close to a double double.

And we look at back and say, he's someone that we overlooked.

Is there anyone else you kind of look at first glance or in the top fifteen, top twenty and say maybe we were too low or even if you want to go too high on that player.

Oh, I definitely agree with Pharrell pay mostly just because I think it's probably silly too for me to underrate him when I was at that Sweet sixteen game where he absolutely put it on Michigan or the sorry the second round game where he absolutely put it on Michigan, he put it on Yale.

He like the biggest knock on him was that he didn't play that many minutes at Texas A and M last year, which is partially because he follows a lot and whatever else.

But he's a beast.

I think we overlook he's one of those guys, Like we talk a lot about returning players, but what about the transfer that follows the new coach, right, Like think about Vlad Golden last year.

He was just.

Incredible for Michigan and we probably underrated him a bit because he was a transfer.

But if you're the transfer for your new coach, your new coach is gonna trust you, gonna give you those opportunities.

And I think there's a big opportunity for Like if Pain goes from what he did in basically twenty minutes a game to twenty six twenty seven, I think he could easily be an all big ten type of guy.

Uh they need him.

He fits like that physical, big ten mold like there's just a lot of upside there.

I think that's easily a guy we could say that we're too low on.

Another guy I would point to would be uh, I'm.

A little worried about well, generally, I think someone at Minnesota, like we don't have anyone listed from Minnesota, and I think Nico Medved is a really good coach and someone there is gonna put up big numbers.

Now.

I don't know if it's enough to be like outrageous that we didn't list them or whatever, but I'm a little worried, Like, Okay, if some like I think it's a what's the kid who's coming with him from Like Jalen Crocker Johnson six' eight played For Nico medved.

BEFORE i could see him just also being their best player and being, like this guy's clearly a top thirty player in the league something like.

THAT i do worry a little bit there looking through the.

List Eric Dailey junior another.

GUY i think he is probably top ten player in the league, upside if it all comes.

Together he's a proven like he had a really good.

Year he was the best on off numbers FOR.

Ucla he's a foreign McDonald's All.

AMERICAN i worry that we had him in the what like twenty.

FIVE i could easily see him surpassing that by a long, shot especially IF ucla is as good as a lot of people expect it can.

Be those are two big.

ONES i would.

Say the other thing THAT i look at just on first, glance AND i think one of these guys will end up being probably much better than the.

Other we kind of grouped them together BECAUSE i don't know that we knew what exactly to do with them or how it was going to, work just because of the whole dynamic of both guys playing together at the same school last year and now they transferred to the same, school which is kind of.

Weird Wesley yates And Desmond, CLAUDE i think looking back at, that the MORE i read About yates and MORE i FILM i watched on, him he to me seems to have the higher ceiling Than.

Claude BUT i wonder just how that pairing is going to.

Work and a lot of people are high On washington entering the.

Season any thoughts on just that duo playing together and just the oddity of them ending up at the same school after kind of sharing the ball and some of the duties last year on A usc team that admittedly wasn't all that.

SUCCESSFUL i know We yates started his, career was That washington so there's some familiarity there with him going, back but then For claude to go there.

Too obviously it's An iolor and Revenue shaar related that they're both, there but it's just kind of an odd.

Pairing, yeah IF i were in the portal looking for two GUARD i would have been way more interested In Wesley.

Yates he's the younger, guy he's the guy who shoots, Threes he's the everything you want at the same, time if you leave them on the same, TEAM i don't know If yates is necessarily going to obviously have a better season Because claude is the, older more, experienced already higher usage, player and GENERALLY i Think washington.

Could they're one of the harder teams to predict where they brought in a lot of guys that on paper look.

GREAT i don't really have any idea how it's going to fit.

Together there's just so many new, names so many new, pieces and clearly a program that needed all new.

Pieces like that's great for.

Them, Right they needed a complete, restart SO i think that's, Great but it feels like a lot of actual position, battles role battles that need to get sorted out for them WHERE i don't, know Is claude just a like scoring sixth.

Man is he the starting point?

Guard they have more of like past first point.

Guards they Have Hans, steinbeck who's like a really useful big.

Man they have all these different.

PIECES i don't.

KNOW i Like claude And.

Yates they both were.

PRODUCTIVE i think we Like yates upside.

Better claude has probably a higher floor where he's just put up big numbers everywhere he's been in.

College guys that do that play that, much shoot that much don't usually stop doing.

That it's hard to kind of train that out of them unless they just don't.

Play so it's interesting how it fits.

Together it's a big year For Danny sprinkle just to just see how everything fits, there because last year he clearly didn't have.

Enough this year he tried to make.

SURE i think he didn't find himself in that spot.

Again but what's it really looked like on the, Floor there's NO i don't think there's an obvious way how that team is gonna work in a way that maybe there are for some other.

Teams, Yeah i'm unsure about like their, set like who plays the five for?

Them and they were.

REALLY i, mean obviously it's a it's a reset for, them but they were they were bad last, year so there's a lot of a lot of ground to make.

Up they were uncompetitive a lot a lot of times late in the season, particularly but maybe that part of that was they had given.

Up the other thing that was it's kind of interesting we don't have A Michigan state guy in the top twenty.

Five we have fears down at twenty.

Six we Have Cohen krt thirty, Two Jackson cole at thirty.

Five maybe we were a little low On Jackson cole at thirty five because you look at his rebounding numbers last year was one of the better rebounders in all the.

League he's coming.

BACK i thought he took a significant step forward last.

Year but not many years of doing this list THAT i can, remember maybe if, any that we didn't have A Michigan state player in the top twenty.

Five is that indicative in your mind of A Michigan state team that's going to struggle this year or do you think it's just more going to be collective effort for them to be a solid and caa tournament team this, Year because you, know you can argue that maybe they deserve somebody, higher but based on what those three guys have accomplished to this, point and you know they've all been in college now for at least a couple of, years it's hard to, say at least right, now based on what we, know that they actually deserve to have anybody higher than Than fears at twenty.

Six, yeah it's hard because last year they were the No Star Big ten.

Team, obviously Like Jase richardson was a, pro but even he came off the bench most of the year and they won the league by three.

Games so it's hard to translate that up a year where anyone returning on that team and all three guys are, returning wasn't in a position to be An All Big ten player last year because they didn't have to, Be and that didn't Mean Michigan state wasn't.

GOOD i think that could probably be the best case among any That sometimes how we look at college basketball and the offseason is all wrong because we focus so much on the individuals and the like how many good players you've got in the portal or recruiting or whatever, Else when then it's just once they start playing, games you're looking At, oh, well this team can't, shoot this team turns it, over this team can.

Rebound those aren't really the kind of levers that we look at in the.

Offseason SO i think that's always a funny part where we go From, okay it's all about individual.

Talent, okay, well this team can't, rebound this team can't, shoot this team has no.

Spacing so it's just funny to how the lens.

Shifts But Michigan, STATE i think they're in an interesting spot BECAUSE i don't know that there's really a case, that like someone on that roster is going to obviously be An All Big ten player just based on what the guys above them are gonna.

Do Right, like even If Jeremy fears is, INCREDIBLE i doubt he's gonna put up better stats Than Donovan, dent, Right, like they're just not set up to have that sort of statistical.

Production at the same, TIME i do think they'll still be one of the best defensive teams in The Big.

TEN i think they'll be a really good reas bonding.

Team but they definitely have some questions in a way that maybe THEY i don't.

KNOW i don't like bigger holes BECAUSE i don't think they have as much obvious depth on paper this year as they did last, year and that turned out to really be their their sweet.

Spot BUT i would say there's still they have three guys on the, list which puts them in the top half of, mentions right like the like there are a lot of.

Teams the two teams with, zero there's four teams with, one there's three teams with, TWO i, believe SO i think seeing, that but the difference, is, like the average rank Of Michigan state's ranked players is lower than anyone else with, three, Right Like purdue has way higher average rank because they have one and.

Two on the.

List things like.

That So Michigan, STATE i think.

It's one of they're almost like you talked About wisconsin back in the.

Day right on, paper it's easy to, say, well they don't have the, dudes they don't have, this they can't, shoot they can't do.

That are you really going to bet against Tom izzo and year?

Whatever this is not being decent at, LEAST i think it's hard to pull the plug all the.

Way.

Yeah the OTHER i, mean the other thing with them, IS i, mean none of those guys you look at as like a go to, scorer and a lot of times like how these postseason awards are given right or.

WRONG i, mean it's hard to land on one of these lists if you're not like a you, know twelve thirteen to fourteen point per game.

Score AND i don't know that any of those guys.

ARE i, Mean i'm not saying that they couldn't do, it But fears is more wired to be a past first.

Guy Cohen, carr there's obviously questions about he didn't start last, Year he's going to be in a different.

Role is he going to be able to do anything besides score and transition and drive and dunk on?

People is it?

Right is?

There is he going to be able to shoot for the?

Perimeter And jackson Cole or is not someone you just tole the ball.

Into you let them go to, work so they don't really have that obvious like to.

Score to, me that's the thing that worries me about them the most is JUST i don't know who picks up that production that was At aikens last year And Jace richardson and they weren't even really a great offensive team much at they won games rebounding and defense and couldn't shoot threes last, Year SO i don't know if they've addressed that either the other team that our group of players.

TEAM i just wanted to ask you about BECAUSE i really have no idea what to expect that maybe you have some Thoughts, illinois but there they've kind of doubled down on this international recruiting.

Theme they've got some newcomers that we've got one on the list down at thirty Eight, petrovic and obviously they have both Of asch.

Brothers Now Kylin boswell is.

Back i'm trying to look who else aside Of.

Soyakovich so they've got just what seems to be a pretty good amount of.

TALENT i wonder how this works from a defensive.

Perspective are they gonna just try to outscore?

Teams and projecting all of these new pieces in this system was pretty hard for.

ME i mean after A, VISITCH i, MEAN i thought you brought up you wrote The toyakovic right up for the top forty, lists and you brought up some good points just in terms OF i think his efficiency in acc games was pretty.

POOR i, mean obviously he was on a really bad.

Team he shot so, Yeah he's a guy that obviously had stats to put up and he was highly coveted in the.

Portal but you, know if he does that, again he's not a top twenty, player so we're kind of betting on him to be better with other pieces surrounding.

HIM i, mean just your overall thoughts on The illinois guys on the list and maybe how this all comes.

Together are you as high as others are In.

Illinois i've seen him picked anywhere from like three or four in the league to the middle of the.

Pack it's it's hard to project what they're actually going to.

BE i Think petrovich is the swing, piece AND i don't really have a great sense of like if you told me if he locked me in a room and let me out In february and told me he was the best point guard in The big ten or the, worst Like i'd probably be, like, OKAY i can see.

THAT i don't really know how to translate this twenty two year old who like great box score numbers and everything playing For mega over there like.

He could be.

GREAT i don't think he's a, pro, Right he's not gonna Like he's not Like, kasparis where he's like a projected lottery.

Pick is he better than these guys who have played point guard in college basketball for years and?

Years is there an adjustment?

Period it's the whole idea of these international kids coming over is really gonna be one of the fascinating things to.

WATCH i think there will be a lot of people that write guys off By, thanksgiving Right, like there's gonna be some of these guys that come for, big high profile teams and they struggle, early but then those same.

Might be great In February.

March SO i think there is a.

Transition Like Franz wagner was one of the best Players i've seen At michigan and Since i've been doing, this and he took basically a year to kind of just figure out how to Play big ten, basketball and now he's one of the best young stars in THE.

Nba, Right so even like someone like that has a, year does that change if you're twenty, one twenty two years old like some of these guys.

ARE i don't, Know but for, Me illinois is so reliant on the ball.

Screen they really trust their guards to get them into that.

Stuff And boswell is a really nice, player great, defender BUT i don't really trust him as just like being the guy to play that, role as LIKE dp point, guard and that's WHERE i Think petrovic he's brought in to do.

THAT i don't think he was really on campus even most of the, offseason so who knows what that looks like early in the.

Year but that's the whole, thing, RIGHT i think great spot to be a ballscreen point guard with a pick and pop big that shoots, threes can finish like it all works If petrovich is.

GOOD i don't.

KNOW i have no idea where he should be ranked on this.

LIST i think we just kind of threw him in the back third of it and hope for the.

Best but it could be.

Anywhere it really could.

Be.

YEAH i, Mean i've started to go through these big ten previews THAT i publish a run inside The hall And Penn state was the first one, today and they even they've got a bunch of international.

Guys so it's it's not Just.

Illinois it's a lot of programs are, RIGHT a lot of programs are beginning to rely on.

This and in terms of trying to rank the, players it was hard enough with the, portal and now you've got.

Guys when we're watching various levels of film from, overseas it's hard to there's so many different levels of basketball internationally that if a guy's averaging twenty but it's a third tier pro, league that's a lot different THAN i got playing and you, know obviously the highest leagues In europe and being.

Productive so that's kind of where we run into the issue with some of these.

Guys but the last THING i wanted to just ask you about was The michigan guys on the, list because obviously you Cover.

MICHIGAN i don't think either one of us had much of a issue with With lindenborg at number three going down To Morris Johnson, ademara and we also Had elliott could do on the list any of THE i guess two part question of those Four michigan, guys which one do you think has the best chance to outperform in their ranking and which guy of the four maybe has the biggest bus.

Potential So Elliott kado is The petrovitch in this situation WHERE i think he could go in any.

Direction clearly, talented clearly a great, Passer clearly has a role that he needs to play like he's gonna have the.

Ball he's gonna Be michigan's starting point.

Guard he's going to be to be the main ball screen.

Guy like that's all locked.

IN i think he's had his struggles with, turnovers with.

Consistency he's kind of scapegoaded for unc season last.

Year he's the big swing piece in terms of just how good he actually, IS i, think and a hard one to.

Project, again there's a lot of guys in the thirties that they could just swing either way by a, LOT i would, say and he fits in that same kind of category for.

Me so if he has the biggest bus potential, potentially but you could say, ALSO i think he has a high floor in terms of he's going to get the.

OPPORTUNITIES i don't think There's michigan doesn't really have a clear backup point.

Guard so it's like It's cado Or Bus like he's he might be the biggest reason That michigan could bust based on their preseason, expectations or if it, works does he make it look like a genius for plucking a guy who was basically kind of entirely blamed for a Blue blood season going poorly despite the fact that he was a past first point.

Guard on a team with No.

Biggs LENDEBORG i think is just so productive box score, Wise, LIKE i think he fits pretty nicely in.

There whatever his role ends up, being he's gonna get a ton of, rebounds, points, assist, steals, Blocks like that's just what he's done his whole.

Career the guys that are really tough for, Me and it's, Honestly michigan's a hard team to predict because they're setting up to be deeper than they've been in a long, TIME i would, Say and there's just a lot of guys on the roster that you look at them and you're, saying, well they're gonna, play they're gonna play a real fifteen to twenty five twenty minute.

Role but when you get down to eight nine guys in that, bucket it's it becomes hard to for anyone to have a great year statistically because you're looking at kind of like A Michigan state team last, year AND i think A daimara And Moras, johnson if they were the only five On michigan's, roster you've raised them up higher on the.

List, instead they're gonna be in this split situation where they split the minutes at the, five maybe play together, some but even that is limited by the fact That, yaxel the most high profile transfer in the, league basically is gonna mostly play the.

Four so there's this minutes crunch.

In it's hard to really see how it shakes.

OUT i think from a team, Perspective michigan probably feels great about, that, Right like if your big man only has to play twenty two minutes a game and play them hard as hell and is extremely, productive like that's a great.

Recipe Michigan state just prove that.

Right they, Dominate they wore teams.

DOWN i.

THINK i think that's What michigan wants to.

Do michigan's guards are the same.

WAY i Think Namari, Burnette Roddy, Gale trey, McKenney.

Lj, cason these guys are all gonna play rotation.

Roles it's gonna be hard for any one of them to average double figures and it's just gonna be an INTERESTING.

I don't know.

Personally LIKE i started this like covering on bline, teams he was very MUCH i want seven and a half guys in my.

Rotation everyone plays a.

Role get as many minutes with your.

STARTERS i don't really think that's What michigan's going to, be and it makes it hard to rank any other guys on.

A list like this based on.

That, right if someone, struggles someone else could take their, spot and it's kind of like that up and down the roster.

As dusty may ever done that though in terms of playing that many, guys BECAUSE i feel, like, yeah every coach talks in the, PRESEASON i want to play nine or ten, guys but do they actually do it when IT i can see doing it In, november but when you get into Like february and you're trying to win The Big, ten historically don't most teams go to seven or eight when it really.

Matters, Yeah so it's interesting Because dusty has done that his final four team AT.

FAU i think they were ranked like top twenty in bench, minutes and they had a similar guard rotation where Obviously JOHN.

L davis And Elijah martin were the best players on that, team but they actually came off the bench all out of the year because they missed a couple of games and they were on a winning.

Streak they had kind of this rotation of four other guards that they just played twenty five minutes a, game and it does feel like that's What dusty is going to kind of aim to do with this.

Roster and even early last, Year michigan kind of started out playing that, way Like Sam walter's in the, rotation all these guys who kind of fell out or left the, team even for various reasons throughout the, year there were, injuries it just kind of never got to that, point and by the end of the year they were playing six guys essentially late in the, season six to seven, guys and that's not really WHAT i think he wanted to, Do SO i do think he'll aspire to get back to, that AND i think he's shown in the past that he's willing to play that.

Way AND i think that's probably what you would Say michigan will try to, do especially just based on how much it's not just that there's depth of, talent it's that there's not separation of, talent, Right, like everyone is a LIKE i could see an argument for a good, player but there's no one that obviously should play ten minutes more than the, rest, Right, like everyone's kind of just so close to each other in that middle.

Ground, WELL i said last thing before, that BUT i didn't want to ask you one more thing Because indiana, Fans i'm SURE i want to hear your thoughts going From Mike woodson To Darren.

Devrees how much of a change you think it's going to Be frye?

Basketball and do you think it's going to be a much better product in terms of what you see on the floor from a basketball.

PERSPECTIVE i think it's hard to not be better than kind of what the last couple of years, Were SO i think that's a low.

BAR i think the, bar so let's set the bar higher than slightly better basketball than whatever the last two calendar years showed.

Us devrees is.

Interesting BECAUSE i think he has a pretty solid track, record But i'm not really sure he has this sort Of it's not LIKE i think of him playing a super unique style of.

Basketball it's not like A bucky McMillan or whatever At TEXAS a AND m where they're gonna do something.

CRAZY i think it's just going to be, modern, consistent like normal, coach and that's that's progress because Whatever indiana was doing before it wasn't.

THAT i think it's just gonna be interesting to see how how it scales, up.

RIGHT i think we saw what he did At drake and it was really.

Good The West virginia seasons just seems sort of like a wash for a lot of weight reasons with the injury and everything.

Else this year feels kind of like A Bridge yere on paper Where i'm not completely sure, that like it's not the most talented roster he's gonna have It indiana or anything like.

That he didn't go out and Spend Pat kelsey money in the portal will just like highest high, profile high, profile high.

PROFILE i think it's a team that should be in THE ncaa.

Tournament AND i think if you're a, coach you look at that and you, Say, OKAY i want a team like that every year and then build off.

That SO i think it's a good reset of the.

Foundation i'm really curious how the kind of low and mid major guards coming in perform for that at that level because a lot of people in the league went bigger splash right like they went and got guys who were all league type of guys at higher.

Levels So i'm curious Does indian have enough?

There but, also Like tucker is a proven big time.

SCORE i think that's gonna it's kind of going overlooked because of the.

Injury but if he's, HEALTHY i think that really sets a floor for the season that is pretty.

SOLID i always enjoyed the conversation is.

DOING i know we're gearing, up but less than two months before the start of hoop.

SEASON i know we talk pretty much every, day AND i know in Like april Or, may we're wondering if the season's ever gonna well for is the portal ever gonna?

Close and is the portal work ever gonna?

Stop and when's the season gonna be?

Here but it's not too far, off AND i know you'll be ramping things up soon at you and.

Poops hopefully we'll get the.

UH i don't want to put you on the, spot But i'm crossing my fingers at the.

Podcast we'll be back.

Out, okay sounds.

Good Thanks thanks, Again del for coming.

On always enjoy the.

Conversations it's it's crazy we've been doing this for thirteen.

YEARS i don't know if we have a thirteen more in us of ranking the Top big ten, players but we'll be here writing About big ten Basketball, Indiana michigan as long as our audience will have, us so thanks for the continued.

Support thanks, everybody as always for listening To podcasts on The.

Brink AS i, said the top unity of the.

Show please, lease use, rating and review over On Apple podcasts Or, spotify and we'll be back soon with another episode of podcast on The break