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What's up everyone, I'm Matt.

I'm here at Screw right now.

Maybe check you later.

I think this is the start of season thirteen, if there is going to be a season thirteen.

At season's kind of game orbitrary after a while, so I just kept left everything on season twelve.

But yeah, I think that's where we're going with this.

How are you doing, Screw?

Pretty good?

How about you?

I'm back at it.

I'm back at it.

Was interesting, yeah, a few weeks, but I'm back at it alive, still not poving my pants, so I'm ready to go.

So, like we were kind of discussing what this episode was going to be earlier, because like we do wing it?

Who you wing it?

And I've done a few episodes before on the genetic bottleneck that currently exists and why, But usually I think, I really do think that people like hear me.

They're like, oh, he just doesn't like cookies.

He's stupid, you know, like that.

They think it's just that, and they don't really take it to the extent of I'm not even thinking of it from a growing a standpoint.

I'm thinking about it from a great standpoint.

Yeah, So I think that's like our objective is to cover that a little better than I have in the past.

Maybe you can help me relay the message a little better to people who I might be speaking over their head too.

I don't know where do we start, all right?

So see here can you?

Let's let's start with, like, what the concept of a genetic like cul de sac or bottleneck, whatever you want to call it is.

Okay, so what are you gonna say?

Oh?

I was just gonna say, so what is it?

What is it?

A genetic bottleneck would be something like a plant or a line that you keep taking in one direction, and no matter how many times you try to outcross it with something else, with a completely different line, with even even an adjacent line, you keep end up going in the same direction, whether you want to or not, whether that's the intention or not.

And you know early on in the forums, people would talk about genetic bottlenecking like it was an already existing, pre existing thing, and in some senses, like people could have said that about DJ shorts or being a little bit of a bottleneck, but it was a screwy kind of bottle neck, like not really a bottle neck, but just kind of a bottle neck.

Because you were getting variant females.

There was there wasn't consistency, but there was consistency between the lines that you were losing a lot of traits out of it.

So technically, I mean it was a bottleneck.

I don't know if it was super intentional because he kept out crossing uh dislike or unlike siblings to each other.

So yeah, but people would talk about it on the forums like, oh, we got a genetic bubble neck.

We got what are we gonna do?

What?

How are we gonna say a cannabis?

We need to we need to keep crossing everything to everything.

Making poly hybrid after poly hybrid after polyhybrid c to be the solution at the time that people on the forums were like really championing, like yeah, let's cross this this and this you know, this thing from BC, this thing from Texas and this thing from Amsterdam and then crossed that to some Mexican and Colombia and call it a day.

So yeah, I mean I think that covered bottle necking.

I don't know.

Well, so, and can you explain to the people why that was the like prescribed route to fix it?

I don't know.

I just think there was a lot of bro science at the time, and nobody was really looking at agriculture or if bottlenecking was a good thing, how to make it a good thing, if it was a bad thing, how to make it a bad thing, how to properly work out of a bottleneck.

And I think just the base understanding of what a bottleneck was was completely missing from that whole era.

I mean maybe if you guys would know about it, like Tom and a few others, but not a lot of them, So it would be like arguing, I don't know, Chinese algebra was some dude in Kentucky who's never looked at it.

Yeah, I don't know the Chinese outrere is any different than ours, for example.

Okay, And so let's hear let's because I do want people to know that it's not just uh oh, you guys always shop on cookies, Yes, because those first, the earlier cookies cuts are you know, pretty nice, and in in hybrids they come out still you know, pretty nice for the most part.

Yeah, they had different selections, Like cherry Pie didn't look exactly like the Forum cut.

The Forum cut didn't look well, it did look almostly identical.

The animal cuts that then were O G looking, but they all tended to look like purple ogs of sorts, but there was differences.

Sure still had its own smell, you know.

Uh yeah, cookies definitely had a different smell than O G.

And And when when would you say you started to see the shift where where they're started like becoming like stop signs essentially on progression of the genetics.

I think during the first time when I started seeing all the different Gelatto cuts, when those all started making their way around, that's when I noticed, like, Okay, so this is a bag seat of this bag seat, and it's all unintentional, but it looks like they're all going for purple and frosty and that's all they care about.

So if we're going for purple and frosty, that's why I have a bunch of these different expressions and examples here, all from the same suppose the same bag seat pop that all look pretty similar and I'll smell pretty similar.

And then from that point on watching how you know, different companies would use gelato in something, I would use geloto on something.

I sold you a lot of thirty three s ones just to see where it came out of them, and yeah, you just got more gelato.

And that's when I started noticing that.

So I don't know if that would be like twenty sixteen fifteen seems a little early, but probably sixteen seventeen for sure.

Okay, it's a lot less, I think as far as what was being distributed world or countrywide and seed, so I was mostly basing it on form cut.

OGKB had its own type, but it wasn't even trying to even call it just an OGKB type isn't correct because there was like there were different cuts that had the same mutation that would pop up from bad seats of the forums one.

So I guess OGKB type would be the best way to say it a type.

Okay, And so can I give you, like how I've been explaining the genetic bottleneck to people, and you tell me if it's like a good, you know, way to convey it there.

So the way that I see it is now there is a very limited like a handful of expressions that comes out of pretty much anything.

There's only you know, a small amount of visual deviations, small amount of smell, pretty much the same high on most stuff.

And that that's just because you know, even when you're trying to do good work by like hey, I'm gonna cross two completely separate lines, but when you don't realize that those lines are actually genetically pretty much the same or you know, sisters or whatever.

Yeah, I see a lot of that, Like I'm sure there's gonna be people that are confused by me saying, you know, sure is tangentially related to cookies, tangently related to something like skittles, tangentially related to something like they think they might see something totally different.

But when you look at traits and traits alone, it's it's it seems to be very obvious with the sense with the look, Definitely the eye, Definitely, the density of the bud, the bud shape, budd type.

Yeah, which I've actually seen even non smokers like just dude to only smoke carts, but you know, sell weed being able to pick up on like you know, it's all kind of much the same thing anyways, you know, yeah, which is sad because God, the diversity that you can get at of stuff is just so neat.

There was cool stuff that could be done with cookies early on, like there was a lot of novel stuff, but the one thing that didn't seem to be novel was just keep getting herm bag set of cookies and popping it and then giving it a new name, and then herm bag seat of that, giving that a new name and calling it a new uh flavor of the week for cookies, a fan store or you know, people hyping up their own ship calling it you know, something with the Z at the end.

Yeah, guys like Z Junkie Perfect.

You know, good examples the people crossing O G on the cookies, on the cookies, under cookies, under cookies and hoping that it all will worked out.

Well yeah, I actually I try so.

There someone who I'm not gonna name but who's known in the scene was moving a og cookies cross like the flower around here and it was crazy because it's you know, it had a good earthy like fuelly og smell to it, yeah, and taste, but the high was completely neutered out of it, like all of the all of the fucking bad that you could possibly get, and you got the one thing that like just ruined the whole experience.

Yeah, you know, and and like there there's a I think this is where there's going to be like conflicting opinions, like this guy says, and this is perfectly valid, you know, take on it.

Anilements was fire dough.

But like, I'm not talking about if something is liked by a few people in a room who have tried very few things and that you know, are stoked on cookies as is.

I'm talking about genetically breeding.

Where is it going to take you?

Like, where's it going to take us?

As far as the community into the next fire dough?

You know, I'm gonna find the next dank.

Though when it all smells, it looks the same.

It has a shitty eye, Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the difference.

Don't get me wrong.

I like ice cream cake, like smoking it that it has like a really nice smoke quality.

But like that ship just doesn't do it for me, you know, Like it's not that it's not you know, you can't grow it to like quality flour or nothing.

Like that.

It's just I want I want the qualitative experience out of smoking, you know, not just hitting it like I would a cigarette, you.

Know, Yeah, I mean like the whole quality that's been there since Cookie fam has been selling socks at malls and always, you know, got really hyped up.

Was is it purple?

Does it have resin production?

Does it kind of smell like nah, like sweet man?

You know, it's a little bit of sweet min maybe a little bit of like gassy man.

Good enough because it's purple and frosty, and people, you know, it was at the beginning of the Instagram era where people are like that looks dang, which is maybe the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard that Dan, you know, you know, it wasn't a It wasn't a thing where you were going through and going through your selection to being like this looks like the winner.

Not in the most vision, this looks like the winner, you know, which.

We were just watching something and I can't quote the date on it, so I don't really want to say like or showed on here.

Oh it looks like it was two days ago that they were doing this dumbash shit.

But it was Cookie showing how they do their pollinations, the reversal pollinations, which was hilarious.

And then they moved on to showing how they do their selections of smelling turkey bags inside.

When yeah, and lab tests and the weight metric like those were like it was by the numbers, by the smell.

There was no smoke, none, no smoke in the room at all.

None, none to be had.

And and like when they were going through pollinating their room, they they were used frozen pollen and one their pollen was not yellow too.

They had a big scoop of it.

I think I can actually just show this image on here.

You could see it.

They had a big scoop of it and you can see it's not pollen looking, so they probably have mixed it with cornstarch or some other ro science bullshit.

And then they dump this dude dumps this whole load on top of this little tiny, tiny bud.

And all the buds at their facility are about week two so beginning of week three, so they're not going to make many seeds at all.

But it was interesting to watch their process after all this time and after all the consultations that they've had and paid for all the quote unquote breeders they've worked with that this is the top of their game and watched it go down.

But yeah, it's pretty funny, and I recommended a watch it's called because they're already gonna get a ton of views.

I don't care if they get more views from me.

Bigger business cook these genetics R and D at one log so you can you can watch it for yourself and see what you think for yourself on how it's done.

Yeah, there's no one that I know that makes seeds and that'll look at that and be like, legit, you know, legit, I'm gonna I'm gonna use some frozen pollen from god knows when I'm gonna.

I'm gonna run the bank on all this ship, big ole wads of white whatever.

That was, well, the selection pressures alone, like because I don't you know, I don't do the breeding things.

I don't know you know, the intricacies on that.

But that's I mean, come on, how are you not gonna smoke any of it to figure out?

You know, you're just going off of Oh that one made two thirds of a pound.

These are the test results.

Smells like lemon cool.

Yeah, smells centrist.

Cool it has tangy in it.

Cool work.

Yeah, I don't know.

It was really interesting to watch though, and then at the end it just and the other point that I was making was like, we don't even know if the bud they were smelling.

I mean, it doesn't make sense that it could have been from examples from the seeds they were making in the room, because they had just dusted the room, walked out and started smelling bags.

So I'm not sure what they were smelling bags of, if it was the moms that they were pollinating, or if it was something from a previous something.

I don't know.

People more up to date with what cookie strains even are they might even say it in there.

I don't know.

I don't pay attention to a lot of what they say.

But someone sent me that and it was definitely worth looking at for a good example of stupidity.

Yeah, well, the problem is is they're just continuing the same selection pressures that Yeah, like God is here in the first place.

You know, here's a good question.

What if the coling of less than ideal plants actually is the bottle man?

What if there are genes that, when paired up with other genes come out bad, but when the right one, yeah, I mean, that's just how life works, that's how genetics work.

When they pair up with some genes, they go bad.

When they pair up with some genes, they go good.

But that wouldn't necessarily cause a whole genetic bottleneck.

You need the whole state of the nation working itself in a direction to bottleneck the whole cannabis genome.

Like has been done, and it was pulled off with predictively media height and advertising at least, which yeah, nowadays makes sense.

And another another problem that that I see is the selecting for flavor, which I get it.

I like, I like my smoke to taste good too, guys, don't you know come at me for that.

But when you're selecting for only flavor, especially with these dudes who you know, we'll just say, aren't the most knowledgeable or like really trying to do the the right you know, do it the right way, you're gonna end up with a selection pressure that has a bias towards like tealing and stuff, you know, like towards only stuff that passes like a lot of flavor.

Which that's cool and all, but you know, if you opened it up more to like, hey, I'm trying to get the best out of you know, this specific line, instead of having kind of like a factory preset of this is my selections every time it's always going to be, you know, going based off of this, you end up not getting the best out of out of the pairing that you're going with.

Anyways, I think I think that's a common thing too, like for people to think when they when they don't make seeds or they're not heavy into making seeds, that they probably have that goes through their mind because like one of the most common questions I get asked is how do you select a male?

I mean it to me, it seems obvious, like, oh, it would depend on the project.

What's the end result am I'm looking for?

Otherwise?

What am I doing?

But it's not that common sense, I think for people that are growers or even just slightly into making seeds that don't quite understand the selection part of it.

I don't know, I can't.

Which it's also important in reversals guys, you know, when when he's saying males that think you could substitute donor in there.

Yes pollen don.

Yeah, So that was some of my stuff from today that I wanted to go over, and it would be funny to play the video and just talk over it about like the ridiculous ness.

But I think it like every single Burner video in itself has like spoken for itself better than anything I can say for it, Like the like we popped ten twenty one was popping or whatever.

There's at least something special there.

But one of the guys in that video is the guy Kenny Powers that supposedly, you know, made the cookie stuff for them and made cherry pie and all that crap.

So he's the one actually dumping loads of white clouds on tops of plants.

Yeah, anyway, I don't know what else we've got to talk about, so kind.

I have a couple.

So there there are so the whole reason like that we we've because we talked about this last week too, you and me.

Yeah, yeah, so the whole you know, it's not just like I don't you know, want to run that stuff, right, but the because of that genetic bottlenecking, you end up with a very low percentage like hit rate of something that's worth keeping.

Or outliers in general, and not all outliers are worth keeping.

Necessarily, but anything that stands out of the crowd for sure.

Yes, So what about these these these kind of mix of the old and the new like GMO or like some piscotti cuts have, like it's kind of just like a pretty like Camo g type thing.

Now, is that because they are cross to stuff that you know is I.

Don't even know what's in discott you, to be honest with you, that's about the time I started to stop paying attention as people were passing pascotti around and I was like, yeah, I'm good, Oh good, see enough.

But maybe it's maybe it is like an outcross of something I don't know.

I know that.

Oh there were a few cheetahpiss and something else.

I spoke to one of the guys who made those for cookies and it was like a GMO I'll cross, But yeah, I think that's just with their other ticket is is use like the kem D scent and move it in through GMO to there's some of the stuff and he gets new names.

Yes, and that's that's not the cookies doing the doing the work there.

No, it's just tricking kids into smoking kim.

Yes, yes, yeah, they I don't think they even know it's kim to be honest with you.

Even going through the comments in our comment sessions, like I've seen people say like, oh no, that's smelling GMO.

That's o GKB.

It's like, wait, ob in GMO.

I don't think so I've seen it.

I've seen tit.

So I don't know what do I know?

Oh yeah, that's right here.

We have a new community section of posts open here on YouTube page, which I guess there's like a new more interactive form on the YouTube page now.

So it's not just in the comments to go check that out too.

Nice.

Okay, So Matt, well we so we spend a lot of time just you know, like obviously, like an archival group, it's going to talk about the past a lot, but let's talk about moving forward, you know, like a good good paths forward for the viewers at home who want to you know, use their gardens to make new and cool things and kind of help or help push forward out of that break away from it.

So it goes back to the to the definition of what an F one is.

It's two distinctly different genotypes cross to each other.

So in the case of something like cookies or something like gelato, God forbid, you're stuck with that.

Crossing that to something like a Malawi would be ideal.

Something that's not a short squat after any baseline, something that's not herble based, something that's not og based.

Cross it way out of its way, out of its comfort zone.

And you don't even need to do that, like like I've done stuff with Blueberry just to simply move it old different direction with genetics and are in it.

There's no og in that, there's no irkle in that, there's no you know, there's countless things you can do to move it out of that zone.

But it's going to take a few different moves because it is what would be considered battle deck.

So you could cross gelato too, I don't know, something blue once and then be like yeah, I got this, you know, off the seeds things look good, and then the next round of seeds it's all back.

You know, it's all launch.

So you have to be careful how you do that.

There is Selection isn't just like a top throwaway words.

It means something, and being able to select well is something that takes time.

It takes skill, like you like with anything like people playing video games or being good at you know, shooters on video games like that takes skill and it takes time, even if it isn't super skillful to everyone else selections the same kind of stuff.

Yes, And because I know people are going to ask, it's the same thing as what you're using as a pollen downer or a receiver whatever you know you need to You're using a specific tool for your end goal.

It's not going to always be the same thing with every project or any thing like that.

Yes, yeah, I mean if your goal is to start with gelato, processed to something completely different and end up back with gelato, then maybe that would work.

I can't imagine anybody we wouldn't want to do that.

Hey, you never know.

Some people say it's fire though I don't know.

Well, I think that uh, that blue bonnet line that you're uh, that you're fostering and and you know, continuing putting it work is a really good example of that.

Like not just uh, you know a one time you know, like an F one or whatever.

It's something that has been bred towards a very specific goal.

Well that when using it, the outcross should be pretty you know, it should be pretty consistent or predictable.

At least me and lone Star that I know of, because like I think he got it from BCGA before that, And I don't know what vick HAI's goal with Blueberry was, although like he had very very Blueberry.

You know, it took three of us, essentially, at least two of us to lock that in and make that true reading enough to where when you outcross it the things it's going to pop up consistently over and over and over and over.

But that's what that's what careful selection will get you, especially if two people have a similar mindset and work on the same line that takes things.

Further yet, which you know, some of you guys don't, you know, don't get down if it's if you don't, I don't know, fucking if you're like trying to do the whole seed thing and you don't blow up immediately.

Yeah, But often what seems to often happen is someone else continuing what you have taken and making stuff that is also great.

You know, like sometimes just making those tools is you know, well worth it for the community as a whole, you know.

Yeah, I find there's a lot more value to me in people serious about making seats in their lines, buying seats from me or getting them from me and using them in their lines, then worrying about what the general population of seed buyers who are who are generally speaking pretty new, like the general population are pretty new to seeds.

That's who all these kind of companies, the cookie fam the seed jumpers try not to get sued allegedly, all those other companies, they're all trying to garner those those hits because they they're not going to rely on you to come back to them for something to because they know that's probably not very likely.

It's probably going to be very something that they've either bought from Spain, it's going to represent something Spanish.

You know.

They're just not as in interested in return buyers.

That's not how they make their money.

They make their money off new buyers, which is why they advertise in five times Heavy.

All the companies you see that advertise there that interact with all of those big legal I don't organizations.

I don't know that you don't sell seeds there, So not really things like that, not like the old em will come.

But yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's almost always seemingly there's always more new people than like people who have continued to stay at it.

Yeah, you know, I had my Lady Pinser asked me the other day, and it was a very good example.

And I'll try to be as vague about this example as I can so I don't offend the world.

But this person was obviously a person that was would be better in like American Eagle model like outfit commercials than in cannabis, right, And this person obviously is not old enough to have bread or experience much.

They have a father who is wealthy and started to see company with you know, buying from Spain doing the switchover, and this person will walk around in a white smock and people will say, oh, but that's science y, you know.

Like Pincher's question was like, well, why aren't you where they are?

Like they haven't been out that long doing that, And the simple answer, like really when it came down to it was I times paying ads Like that's how that's how effective marketing is, even in cannabis, where you think people would be more open minded and smart and it's more street smart, I should say.

But yeah, I thought that was a funny example because it was like, how do I explain this particular one, this particular situation because it seems obvious.

Yeah, there's there's a lot of thirst trapping because fucking growers are lowly and stupid.

A good word for it, you know, more power to them.

I guess I don't have I don't have the same looks, so I can't perform the same way.

Yeah, well, you know, I mean, dude, that that got me too.

I remember, dude, when I was in fucking middle school that one of the one of my friends was like telling me, Hey, I'll give you money if you can get me seeds.

And I thought it was weird because like we're smoking brick weed, it had seeds.

Yeah, So I brought him, you know, the seeds and he's like, no, these aren't colored, They're not real.

And it's because of that was like right around the time when Greenhouse started doing the color coded seeds ship and he had seen it in High Times and was like, no, these are you know, this is how real quote unquote seeds come.

Yeah, they come covered in in a paraffin wax, a colored paraffine wax.

That will help them.

It'll help them, German aid and I loved it.

Still on their website to this day, it says like Creators, They'll go through this long list of shit they did, like Creators of Devil's Haze, which is hilarious.

And then it says like creator of the world's first colored seed.

Yes, that's gotta go in the repertoire.

Yeah, I'm shocked they haven't like pushed to try and get like other you know, push for licensing for other you know, that type of seed sellers to you know, it's.

Very hard to pop those, so they weren't really popular from the get go.

Like I guess they didn't do enough top like trying to pop through paraffin wax.

But seeds, some seeds are pretty stubborn as is, and you cover them in paraffin wax, they're not gonna pop.

You know, I'd imagine why they.

They definitely worked out the formula by the time I was, you know, buying Greenhouse off of attitude because it did dissolve like that in the water.

You know, still you know still what it is, you know.

Who has did something very novel and new was and this is a long time ago, this is like fifteen years ago.

Work for this it was very new, was Dutch Passion and it was the they call the synthetic seeds, and apparently they just the problem wasn't the seed, synthetic seeds or anything to do with that.

It was people already had a hard time popping seeds because people are really new to it.

I guess, you know, most of those new buyers that go to places like Dutch Fashion and no, no, no shit talking on them because I kind of like them, but you know, they're going to go to the Dutch companies, the companies of the white widow era.

Uh and yeah, I mean, if they're having trouble already popping normal seeds, there's no way they're going to be popping synthetic seeds.

Very well, tiss culture seeds tried, which.

That actually can be a pretty good, uh you know, bridge to this segment.

So I see it often people talking about, oh, you know, old weed isn't it isn't as good as everyone remembers and all that stuff, you know, And I think a good good portion of that is people who are now buying those, you know, like white widow and all of those seeds that are one hundred percent not what they were during their heyday.

But you know a lot of those cuts are alive still in different breeders' gardens and you can buy the seeds from them and continue that, you know, Like that's what this whole I don't know.

That's how I see this whole scene is.

We're all just continuing the good work that you know, like came before us.

That's the whole deal kind of what it is.

Right, Everybody takes something from something they like and add to it to make it something they like more.

That's the ideal.

I you know, some breeders are or see I should say seed makers are very upset when people like you know, use their stuff.

So I think it's always a compliment because of that, like someone likes it enough to take it forward, then there you go.

That's how things live on forever.

Yeah.

And it's weird because you would think, you know, like, oh, cool something that I made because I you know, like I like how it turned out, and someone use that to make something either better or different, you know, like with that twist on it.

It's a it's a very weird thing to be upset at something about unless they're like straight up selling your line or you know, testers that weren't supposed to be released that type of stuff.

Someone said frozen pollen works great if it's dried correctly before freezing.

There's actually a really good paper on freezing pollen from him and what happens to it where it's all like you know, under microscopes and everything, what happens to it before and after.

And there's just what they came to was, you're lucky to get one and a half months with a frozen Anything longer than that is playing quite the dice game, you know.

I mean, I've seen old fallen work.

Don't get me wrong, it can work.

It's just not consistent at all.

Well, and especially if you're doing if it's reversal, that means it's going to be smaller, more malformed.

You know, you already have a you know a little bit of a disability there that you're working with.

Yeah, and actually we didn't we talked about it before we came on.

But they're using a cutting agent.

Yes, it is probably much better if you are going to freeze pollen to just have as much actual pollen as possible there.

If you have.

If you want to know what cut paullen looks like, it's it's a picture right here.

Paullend itself is very yellow.

It's a very yellow color even when it's fresh.

When it's not fresh, it stays very yellow.

And most of us like sort the pedals out of the pollens.

Most of us are familiar with trim trays, right.

Those originally started as pollen trays they called, and it was to sift pollen, not necessarily for cannabis, but for pollen in general from anything, to sift the pollen out from the actual pedals.

And that's where that tech for trimming became, like, oh, look we can catch a trek thump here and stuff.

But it was also just as effective for catching pollen for people making seeds with you know, males or reverse males in cannabis, it's quite efficient.

But yeah, cutting, I've never seen a reason to do it.

I've seen people do it.

I've seen it be very ineffective when people do it, because it's one more thing to worry about capturing moisture.

And I want to say the reasons back in the day on the forums, people said that they did it was to keep the pollen cloud from going up.

But like that's kind of what you want to happen in a room you're pollinating, Like just wear a mask, if you don't want it to travel up like you're worried about it getting your face.

I could get that wear a mask, but yeah, clouds of Pallen are good things.

You don't want to If this was actually Pallen all in this and he's gonna dump that on top of a tiny little bud, he's gonna overpollinate that bud.

There's gonna be all kinds of immature seeds in there with mature It's gonna be very inconsistent on maturity, just because buds aren't meant to be.

Every single seed just stopped to the brim, you know, like all the way up and down.

It's not how it's supposed to be.

According to old Frankie Gas, the white are the pall in the bed of the mill.

Lots of funny stuff from Frank he gags.

I remember, I was the one and got him to come out public on Adam Dunn's show just to talk about his h some guy who's pretending that he that Frank ge Gas created og and that this guy somehow stole seeds from their warehouse after a pop and Frank gave him some fucking gardening book.

Blah blah blah, blah blah.

It is interesting.

You got a hold of his daughter, right.

Yeah, yeah, she lived in San Diego when I was in San Diego.

So we met up and talked and I got to speak to him on the phone there, and we emailed a little bit after too.

But once they got on the Done show, they really wanted to start pushing the angle that GaX was as important of a person as this scammer dude was pushing him to be.

So then I just kind of backed out of everything.

It kind of didn't make any more sense.

They put the hole in the og story and then they're like kind of like, yeah, I look at as I mean, the guy did do big things.

He was an engineer, he was a businessman that helped build a very large underground growth facility.

I think he was in Arizona somewhere Abada, Arizona, one of those desert states and pulled off.

But if he grows there until they didn't, because there's a bunch of people involved, that's what happens.

Interesting story note less if you want to look it.

Up, Hey, can we highlight this comment the Phino hunter well maybe talked about that.

Can you can you elaborate a little bit hunter.

Yeah, yeah, I'd be interested to hear his uh take on that.

Yeah, because I mean, you you kind of expect the F two.

So if it's a you know, say it's a F one that you're buying, you kind of expect the F two to open up a bit.

Yeah, even even choosing like ones, I would expect them to, you know, there to be some some more stuff coming out.

I mean to check it, check it, to check the consistency of breeders' lines.

Doing fems does it make a ton of sense to me?

But you'd have to also know the parentage of the lines that they're working with to determining much about it.

Yeah, you gotta.

It gets more complicated.

Yeah, this is where that whole you know, like you you you pop things for certain reasons, you know.

Yeah, Like there is some stuff that I don't expect there to be any consistency like at all outside of you know, hey, I know what expressions both parents have, ye, and let's see what goes on.

But like, you know, like the the long flowering stuff, I know that that's inherently going to bring up some some weird shit popping out.

Yeah, let's hear.

Okay, here's here's I like to pop different fans that I see that quile I like, usually I won't pop those finds until I do a deep drive to the parentage when I'm finding this really hard to find the true Yeah, and and like there's on one hand, I can count the number of people making reversals and them seats that you can go buy daily that are worth even looking into their work because most of them are full of shit.

That's again, I get a lot of shit for saying that, but I don't really care.

There is a lot of funny business go even even someone trying to like do the right thing, thinking they're buying a legit you know clone from someone who's supposedly legit, oftentimes ends up getting a fake you know cut.

Like that's just how the scene works.

Yeah, it's very unfortunate, but yes it is.

It is so trying to know a breeder's parental lines.

Unless you're in the same circle as that breeder, you've gotten the same cuts, and you're all kind of on the same like trust level.

I don't want to say like breeding level or any of that stuff, but trust level with each other.

That's usually how that works.

It takes a long time.

It takes a long time, not always, but it can.

Yeah.

Well, this this part of the you know, it's very different than the typical, you know, customer relationship because most of us have been you know, criminals for for quite some time, and like it's just it's the way this whole thing is gone.

Since I've been in it, which isn't a super long time, it has been building, like cultivating those relationships with people.

I have a question for you, and be totally honest, be totally transparent.

Is there anything that I told you early on when you first started coming around it turned out to be completely different than what I said, like through your own experience.

Hm hmm, not that I can think of.

Most of most things keep coming true, I mean, even up to and including the whole you know, Yeah, you might end up with a fucking weirdo, you know.

Yes, yeah, I'd never thought that, Like I was like, oh, whatever, you know, like I ain't gonna fucking sell seeds or done that ship.

So that's just not a concern of mine.

Turns out it could happen to you too, if.

You're on any kind of platform.

Like people always hated my guts because I was on the forums, and I was always getting banned from the forums, and like, I wasn't one of those guys who would like make a new name and come back on the forums, like ha ha, I got you like one of those guys, But I go make I do the time when I knew someone very big was making a very big claim that could easily be disproved, and be like, Okay, there's there's there's no way I'm gonna get banned over talking about this.

This is obvious.

We can we can show all the proof of where this person's incorrect, and I would get banned from that ship so long before even people give a fuck that I was making seeds, I would get banned just for opening my mouth.

So, whether you make seeds, whether you sell seeds or not, if you're opening your mouth, if you're talking, if you're even even remotely poking into people's claims, you know you might harsh the mellow of some other stoner in a chat room's vibe, and you'll be the worst person on earth.

This has been the hardest community I've ever had to assimilate too, and I don't think I've ever assimilated to it, nor do I want to for many reasons.

There's lots of people I love, don't get me wrong, but like the whole like like keep the vibes fucking pure.

Bro just let scammer scam.

I could never roll with that, just does.

That's a huge problem because it's very pervasive for like baby growers, you know, who are like, oh, what do you mean?

You know they haven't they haven't been around long enough to see these things, you know, happen and you know, be able to actually differentiate stuff and find out like man, you know something's not right here.

They haven't quite added that up yet.

And of course they won't.

You know, Hey, this guy's been nice to me and you know, taking my money whenever I try and give it to him.

I've seen CSI call someone out like maybe once in the last ten years, and he used to be pretty pretty good at doing it on the forums, just point out when people's logics was faulty and make them He was really good at politely making people trip up in front of everyone.

And I saw him do this the other day on instat It's been probably a month and a half or so at least on Instagram, and it so nicely and that the same bullshit comes up, like all these breaders just want to fight with each other.

They just want to fight with each other for sales with a bunch of farts.

You know.

It's just it's a very very common reaction that I see, and people don't get like some of us that put hands on each other or not just too often.

It's not two keyboard warriors that are just talking over a computer and they're going to see each other.

A lot of us that put hands on each other.

It's very very personal relationships that a lot of us have with each other.

So it's not just too like women screaming at each other.

You know, it might be it might also be too women screaming at each other, because I could be like that.

But yeah, there's a lot more to it than that, and a lot of it does have to do with there's a very few of us that are interested in preserving the history why we still can and when we see people pissing shit on that for the purpose of making money and a bunch of people buying into it, we almost feel like that there's some responsibility there to step in.

Well, it's very important in you know, before you know, say, in like the nineties.

It's one thing to be like, ah, this is never good because I mean, growing up in the two thousands, you know, starting smoking weed in the early two thousands, I never would have thought we would be legal, you know.

But now we have science, actual scientists like trying to you know, they want to be able to do what we do, and that's what they expect is to be able to predict outcomes based on data points.

And when it's all fucking over the place, because you know, homeboy wanted to make you know, some extra money by just saying some shit.

I will give example here that goes to this episode perfectly.

And I've given this example before, but it's once not talked about anymore that those forms are raised where it was talked about.

There's still some one.

I see that.

Back when Cookies was released in cut, nobody had it, and see I released s one seeds of it so everybody could have it and it wouldn't be some covened cut because it wasn't that special in the first place.

Swere from Cali connection was mad because nobody would give him the cut because nobody likes some motherfucker, and so he just named a seed line Cookies you know, feminized cookies and put them out there on the market.

And because he was who knew seed buyers, and they still I think they still go to his dumb ass.

They went to him, and they all ended up showing pictures online on all the forums of a bunch of stuff that wasn't related to cookies, that didn't look about it or look at it or look like it at all, and it caused a huge fiasco.

But like all that stuff's kind of dead, you know.

I mean, that happened in two thousand twelve, so a lot of people don't remember about it.

But there's countless examples of things like these that have happened over the years that have kind of been varied by time.

But there's a few of us stick around, like furniture, to keep talking about it.

Yeah, and it's needed because at some point, the you know, the scientific community is going to you know, probably be an average youthfulness to actually start going back and trying to figure out the real stuff, you know, because what doctor Vergara told you was, you know, like stuff isn't coming out the way it's supposed to do, you know, the way that it should, and that's only going to go on for so long before they go back to the drug like, hey, something isn't you know this is wrong?

Our predictions are coming out incorrect.

In academia.

I've ever talked to that had that question that was interested in the answer.

Everybody else just takes it a face value.

It's very frustrating.

I hope it's not going like that, but it just seemed like that because they're not reaching out to any of any of the homies or anything like that.

So you know yet No, I know that because I have I have a bit of a connection to the A and M HEMP research program now and like the guy that I know, his wife supplies them the seeds and she works with the fuck what's that one big umbrella white label company.

Which.

I think so.

Then it became HSO which was also the American arm of that, So they got popped.

I don't know what happened.

Yeah, it's one of the ones that has you know, several companies under its banner and it's all the same ship, which you know that means that right now, the stock they're working on is you know, quote unquote you know Northern Lights or quote unquote, uh, you know whatever from Dutch companies from white Label Spanish Sea, you know, and they they haven't begun to start un you know, peeling this onion yet, but at some point they definitely will.

And that's where that type of work that the syndicate does is going to help, because we're I'm sure that we're not the only ones, you know, doing it.

Yeah, I'm just reading through the comments and I'm like, man, I wish I could tell this person what I really think, just so they don't.

Yeah, I'm just like, never mind, you know, it's it's constant though.

It's like people think I pick them out, like kind of tag him just to pick on it.

But it's not even that.

It's a lot of times it's the best way to get through to someone like grab the ears.

Stop.

Stop.

Everything you said is a fucking shit, fire mess.

You don't even know what you know?

Yes, but I will say it takes, you know, it takes a certain personality in person to take that kind of approach, at least the first time, you know, like that.

They they may get mad and you know, fuck off, but they'll be back, if they're still doing it, they'll be back in a couple of years, you know, just like what you said, that's something you told me early on too.

Ah, he'll be back in two years, it's sure enough.

It doesn't take long.

I mean, it doesn't take long for someone to not be a quote unquote like a newer person or a new in this in this scene, like if you're really into it, you run through it fast because it means you're buying a bunch of seeds, you're popping a bunch of seeds, you're running a bunch of shit, and you're realizing nothing looks like what it's supposed to do.

You know, it doesn't take that.

It doesn't take too too small.

If people are really aggressive about trying to get into this, and this really is a passion of theirs, which nine percent of people, this isn't gonna be their passion.

Most people listening to this a year from now will not be growing.

And that's that's true.

It's just true.

They'll have reasons to stop, or it just will become too much of a pain.

Electric prices will be too much of a burden.

You know, outdoor weather's getting insane certain places as I'm learning.

But yeah, yeah, well I think also a lot that has to do with that is you know, you end up spending months growing this crop that is pretty much just as good as what you could buy on the market with none of that fucking hassle, you know, and there is no oh man, I'm running out until next harvest, you know, like you don't.

They don't have to worry about that, and then they end up buying and like, a fuck, this is just as good as what I could grow.

Why am I fucking going through the motions?

There you go, here's one for you.

You can you can respond to this one.

You should check out my adolong.

I don't know what that is.

I know I know what SCP is, though, yes I I uh, there you go.

I watched them quite a bit during uh, during the pandemic, but then it got to like six hour long episodes of just dudes smoking weed in their backyard, and you know, they still.

Have every scammer possible on their show at some point.

It sucks because it starts when it's when they really like started uh putting out like a lot more content like they had job but on there calling a fucking that one dude out over the cat piss shit like that.

Yeah great, But you know, there I guess that doesn't pay the bills, you know.

No, No, they needed Missionic to come on when he was all out it as being a snitch on paperwork, and they wanted him to come on and talk about why.

I just never.

I don't have any life or love for any of these people doing stuff like this if that's what they're pushing in our scene, because there's definitely no snitch zone in this in again, the community, I don't care old I am or how young you are.

That is something you better carry with you in your heart.

Yeah, no, like that, that's something to all you.

Uh Like, it's mostly the fucking young dudes, which I'm not old, but you know, I mean the younger twenty you know, hot ed type people.

Totally okay.

You can come back from you know, like physically threatening people, fighting them ship like that.

You can come back from that, but you will not fucking come back from threatening to snitch or fucking snitching.

It just especially if you're on paperwork, you shouldn't come.

But then there's places like Cookie Fam James, I mean, there's tons of well interviewed.

Like that.

Also something to keep in mind, especially if you know you do the deal without any licensing or anything like that.

That ship, that jacket follows you like they will when you get locked up.

Because if you're just going to continue to be an outlaw, you know what I'm saying, you got pick sides if you want to be a square and you know whatever, that's I don't consider that snitch.

And I expect my regular ass neighbors to call the cops on me if I do some ship.

But if you're going to live the life, that ship will follow you.

And when you do get locked up, it is not going to be an easy ride.

You are not going to be able to walk the yard, you know, like, because they're going to ask for your paperwork and see that you did cooperate, yes with the state.

Yeah, it'll be in PC.

Kind.

This is a good question.

Where there's a wheel, there's a way.

Asked, what's your thoughts on segregating an inbread line?

And he's using the term correctly.

I believe into two separate types for a few generations and then bringing back to each other ladd generations for adding figures, keeping it pure, and that is like the ideal way it's supposed to be done.

But in a world of polyhybrids and a lot of not knowing what you're working with.

It's very hard to do something like that.

And with with cannabis, it's been such a plastic expressing plant.

Trying to get that true.

In bread line, everything's all uniform.

Cross two lines, then merge them apart, bring them in two different directions, than cross them back in to bring back in bigger.

That's the ideal.

Hard to do.

That is the I don't know if you remember this, but when you first did the video consultations and you had me, uh wait, what's it called for?

Like the fifty tier stuff when we first got onto the new server, and shit, that was the question that I asked you and bitter about.

Yeah, was that because of like me going through and like learning about how they how they keep heterosis and shit like corn and stuff, you know, regular egg crops, which I mean, I guess it depends on what stock you use, right, because if you would, if you use something that got to a point of you know where it's very consistent, but like you're not gonna pop a keeper out of it, you know.

Yeah, And another line that's you know, the same type of thing, you know, like just something that's super far like inbread too, to the point of essentially making your own little bottleneck within that singular line then crossing those that you know.

I could see that as being something kind of viable, except we have so many different uh like qualitative you know, stuff that we look for it, and you still need to expect variation.

The goal in my mind is to be able to predict kind of what zones that's going to be going into, so you can you can get what you want.

At least that's how I think about it.

When I'm buying seeds.

Yeah, I uh, when I think about like even labeling seeds and like telling people what to expect from them, there's always going to be that caveat.

There will be outliers, and I always hope people I can understand that much at least, but you never know.

You never know.

And then adding that caveat to my shit and then comparing it to other people shit, just a is it make any sense too?

So I don't know.

Let's see trying to figure out how to make night bot stuff being so annoying, but it's not wanting to let me mess with it, So you always got to deal with night bought for a while, Purple Punch to everything.

Hey, you know what, Like I said, there was a time when someone gave me a banana punch cut and I thought, okay, let's just throw trash in the corner of the room.

And it was really beautiful, really turpy and bread really well.

So even purple Punch has as in my heart.

Plus the dude what is his name, Supernova Gardens who actually made for punch, super nice guy.

I like this, what did you say, banana punch cut?

Yeah, it was a banana punch cut.

Is that what you made?

The banana og?

What is the banana og?

Banana OG comes from a seed line called og Ar's Cush that organ kid put out years and years and years ago, and it was supposed to be a regular og Coach seed line, but everybody's at war with night Bot night bought kick someone night bought.

Anyway, OG supposed to be the regular seed line from uh that organ kid, And what came out of it was a lot of really nice OG cuts, a lot of cardboard, and a lot of plants that were like lightly laffy, caffee, banana and og cush.

And so the given lineage for that was og Kush cross to Sega Matha's sixty forty.

So the second I learned that, I was like, oh, let me go hit up sagar Math because that's I'm homeies with that dude.

So I hit up Tony from Sagre Math and I asked him, I said, Hey, what was the sixty forty back then?

And all that was was supposedly a sixty forty Indica sativa that he got bulk seeds up from Sam for an indoor variety, So it could have really been anything across to skunk one essentially, and that's what banana og is.

But there's many different cuts of banana og.

Yeah, but I loved it.

I loved it for a long time, but the one thing I could never do was shake the cardboard out of it.

So I eventually gave up on it.

I stopped it.

I think in a pretty happy place with it, except that it had cookies in the line somewhere, so every time like I would outcross it, there'd be some cookies something in it, and then I'd get pissed, so just walked away from it at the end.

Yes, I think most people work with the same banana og cut now as opposed to back in the day when I think I still even have original og or ninety nine seeds here popping that old pack or fgens of them to look for newer banana cuts.

I think our best one was a banana across to some sort of bubble hybrid that we had, and that's what became like our stable.

When you say are.

You mean you.

Yeah?

People, it's so crazy because people think that like the system, but you know, like that everyone making seeds has like you know, I guess a whole.

Shipping and packaging, yes, you know, office and like a dude run into financial you know, like all of these Like no, these are just very dedicated people trying to make cool ship.

When I say are, I think about the times during like whoever was with me on my forums or whatever, and that was there when I was working on these projects and putting their input into them.

That's what I think of when I say hour.

But yeah, definitely wasn't the It wasn't a collective work.

Unfortunately, we've got anything else.

We made it past the hour?

We did?

Oh oh no, did it?

Did night Bob kick Robert?

I don't know.

I don't know what's going on with Nightbod.

It won't let me even log into it without like adding it to chat or.

Robert Stefenni and Homie.

Oh no, well we'll have to figure out how to boot him.

I'll have to figure out how to get into nightbod After this.

That sucks.

I went and rogue all of a sudden, like, Yeah, I'm gonna tell everyone to buy some merchant and then I wanna start banning people.

YouTube's channel community settings, find night Bought in the list of moderators and remove it.

There you go.

What doesn't need to be having skills like that YouTube channel community setting.

Oh that's so complicated right now, but I promise n what we'll be dealt with.

Yes, we're going to execute him.

Don't worry, guys.

Yeah, he's done pissed everyone off now, little motherfucker community community settings.

Is that inside studio?

No, it's probably on YouTube community moderation.

Here we go.

But I don't even see him in the list of with permissions.

No, he's not in the list of anybody with permissions anyways.

So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how to get rid of that.

Yeah, I see the wrench by its name.

It's now warning someone else.

Yeah, the hell.

Don't get rid of night.

Oh, they're the standard moderators just got rid of is anywhere else?

Okay, hopefully it stops, even if it's warning people.

God, it was going for a second kill.

The wonder if it still has a wrench next time it types it doesn't like periods.

Most women don't like periods either.

Oh my god.

Yeah, I think I finally sniped it.

But it's still in there somehow somewhere, so it'll probably still talk shit in there.

That's funny.

Oh so, last week Penn sent some a video about cussing over to Chuck.

I don't know.

I was gonna talk with him here about it.

Since he didn't show up, I'll just say we cannot cuss more.

That's not what it said.

And it didn't say that we should cuss earlier, more or any of that.

It's just a better framework for understanding what we are and aren't allowed to say.

And it's they say in the video.

YouTube says, choose your fox wisely or you'll just you know yeah, so oh no, yeah, so we have to be even more careful than we are with our language, myself included, especially you know so yeah, but it's longer than four seconds or seven seconds or whatever it was.

I can't remember what it was, but yeah, you have to not say f words a bunch.

Our dog.

I don't blame you.

I am not a trop cherry fan either.

Trop cherry don't what do they call it trop cherry when it's like a.

TANGI yeah, that's yeah, that's the it's just the it's the same, like, eh, fucking I don't know.

To me, all there's like a whole like a third of the market is just like a perfume like mandarin or like a like a bitter like citrus type thing.

Yeah.

Gross, I don't know.

I've never been a big, huge fan of orange stuff unless it is like sweet orange.

I like that.

Okay, I've got I've got it completely moved out of any moderator stuff.

So if it kicks something again, then we have to go to war with it.

Other than that, I think we're good.

What do I think about Ethos?

God?

So here's a great thing.

It's a great point time to do this.

You can go back and watch so many episodes where people have asked me this exact question and I've got them all in on it.

Or you can come in the discord life here from someone else I.

Will I will say that I don't think much about it, yes, about any of any of that work, not just the work nor.

The human Hey, I'll take looking cute and you look cute for tonight.

Let's see.

I unblocked some people too, just to make it more funny to see who would pop into chat just now, So let's see.

Probably not anybody tonight, but I have a feeling in the future some funny people are gonna back up, keep it interesting.

Anybody else have any more questions?

Otherwise we can close it.

I guess earl is we have some fights tomorrow.

There's gonna be what coms out versus just See and some other really good fights.

So go check them out and and tell them what else do I have this weekend?

We have, we have our movie, we have never ending story.

Hell yeah, get high with us, watch watch the fucking Bisexual Wonder.

Yes, and we are all gonna sit there like men and maybe a few women crying together during the scene you know what scene I'm talking about.

We're all going to be crying and it's gonna happen, So definitely come show up for that.

And yeah, well, the site has things up where you can go use whatever method of whatever things you want to.

Go get your merch and all kinds of fun stuff.

There's that, and then there's merch, march, suret perch stuff like that.

Links in the description go to go to our link tree for all of our all of our links within our bioarny description.

You can find everything there from how to get into the discord to my shop to the merch shop all that stuff.

So, and that's your best way of putting it.

Dude, that new can Illuminati shirt is badass.

It is so soft and fucking looks it looks.

Yeah, dude, I'm so glad you were able to fucking uh what get that that one reworked, because yeah, I missed out on that first the seed you know, uh edition thing with it.

Yeah, and I really like the new one better.

I'm regretting not putting cross switch blades under the or behind the Cantiluminati much have been a bit aggressive.

No.

I think it looks.

It looks real, like I don't know, you know, like it looks it looks good and to where you might just overlook it, you know, Yeah, And I think if you know then you know, yeah, that's a cool.

I want people to be able to wear the shirt anywhere, even if they live in the legal state.

Get fucked by Giggs.

Yeah, and I guess that's it.

You got anything else tonight?

Screw to our fallen comrade from chat uh chucky our law.

I see your I see your your comments on step love it.

All right?

Good?

Yeah?

That suck.

Sorry, sorry forever got hit by the night Bob.

We're gonna figure it out though.

And with that, I guess that's it.

I have to get both of last week's and this week's up on Streaker, so it goes to all the audio platforms, so it should be up this weekend for everyone.

And yeah, it could be a nice long weekend.

Might even do a waffle at some point.

You're during the fight, but we are going to be on Discold watching the fights, so yeah, you'll get a lot easier for that too, if you're paying attention to you UFC and paaramounta news.

I'm stoked.

And with that, I guess uh, yeah, I guess that's it.

Right.

Good.

Yeah, you guys, have a good night.

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