Welcome to the net party.

Hello, and welcome to another special celebrating Superman edition of Missing Frames.

I am your host, Sean Eastridge.

Normally, on Missing Frames, if we watch all of the movies we should have seen by this point in our lives, I should really just flip that, because twenty twenty five has been all about celebrating Superman, and Missing Frames is basically the between takes now, and I promise I will do a real Missing Frames episode someday, but right now, I'm just too excited about Superman.

And as you may already know, part of these Superman celebrations have been including the Franchise boys in an entire series rewatch of the Superman film.

And we are finally wrapping up our Superman franchise marathon with the thing that started all of this nonsense, James Gunn's Superman.

So we've got our franchise boys over here.

We got Brad Gullikson over there.

Welcome Brad.

I'm just trimming my mutant toes.

Hello everybody.

We got Aaron Prescott over here.

How you doing, Aaron?

Greetings, punk rockers.

We are all here to do to do the thing.

It's been a minute it's been a month.

But you know what now, I guess is the time.

It's perfect timing because they're now releasing Superman on ideo on demand.

That's what they do now, They just wait a month.

Yeah, I would love to say that that's the reason why you actually waited this long to talk about Superman.

We all know it's because you are waiting on me, and I am thankful.

I was out of town.

I wasn't available to review this thing with you guys, and I said, you guys, just go and review without me.

But you're too kind, and you waited.

You say, franchise Boys, we need, we need all the franchise Boys.

It just isn't right without you, Brad.

But you had to.

Tell which one was it was?

It was hard.

It was hard, that's right.

We did all right, though we did that.

We suffered.

I actually enjoyed listening to that episode.

It's the only Franchise Boys episode I enjoyed.

It was weird that Brad really loved what was it a Good Day to Die?

Hard?

Was that was his favorite?

Yeah?

No, don't you lay that on it was.

It was an odd choice, but you know what, you expect these things from Brad.

But you had a lot of excitement on your plate.

You went to San Diego comic on, you went on a whole road trip.

You were doing comic book stuff.

It was great.

I drove across this country from Virgina to San Diego.

What madness.

I overdrafted three times.

I love that though.

I love that for you, So Superman it happened.

We were all looking forward to it.

I believe we were all excited for it.

Uh.

I think we were all hope for the best.

Did it live up to our expectations?

First and foremost, Brad will start with you, When did you see it?

How did you see it?

What were the emotions tied into it?

Just remind the audience where your brain was when it came to James Gunn Superman.

Well, obviously I was extremely excited for James Gunn Superman.

I'm a huge fan of James Gunn.

I've liked pretty much everything he's ever directed.

I think Super Minus the Man is a movie that might be a little too much for this guy with Rain Wilson and Elliott Page like that movie is a lot.

I've heard things.

I've heard things about it.

Oh, you haven't seen it.

Never seen it?

I'm very curious about it.

I need you to watch super I need you to watch super Report Back.

I would like to watch I'd like to go back and watch super right, but especially after seeing Superman.

Yeah, Like I love Slither, I love Guardians of the Galaxy, the whole trilogy plus the Chris Special.

I like that Christmas Special way more than I thought I was going to like.

I watched it the first time and I was like, I don't know, And now I watch it like all the time, and I really, really really adore the Suicide Squad.

That movie is another like I think it's that's also one of the best modern day, twenty first century superhero films.

So the anticipation was extremely high for Superman, and anticipation is a hell of a drug, and it's also maybe the enemy of a good time expectations specifically, And I think when I watched Superman the first time at a press screening, I was very much in my head and I don't think I was with the movie.

I feel like I was watching outside of my body.

And while I enjoyed it on that first watch, unsurprisingly, it wasn't really until the second time when I knew what it was and I just gave my self over to the story and this interpretation of Superman that I really kind of fell.

In love with it.

Aaron, what did you see it?

I saw it on Brad had an early screening of it, but I got to see it with us, with us normal plebeians on Thursday night.

I was like thinking of waiting because the kids could make it that night, and and we usually go to movies on Tuesdays because that's cheap ticket day.

That's our day to go to the movies together.

And but I was also like, I can't, I can't wait.

I can't you know.

I was afraid of you know, roaming the internet and seeing some sort of spoilers or really you know, I just I have a really bad case of fomo.

So I had to go see it that that opening Thursday night.

So I did.

And I too am a gun advocate as a filmmaker, as a writer, as a as a creative, as just an advocate for film and for comics.

He has just a great positive outlook and the way he likes to share his creative process, and you can tell there's you know, uh, he just has like this this vibrant uh.

It's it's sincere.

It's really true, It truly is.

You don't feel that with a lot of like it feels like big budget movies are starting to feel more clinical these guys and yeah him, it's like it's it's all the love and excitement is sincere.

It truly does.

And uh yeah, I mean I remember, I remember like that.

You know, the first Marvel movie that I was kind of like questioning was Guardians, because you know, it was that first one where you were kind of like, who who is this and why would why would this be the choice that we're you know, we're not going with this character, this character, this character, We're going to the Guardians of the Galaxy.

And then I fell in love and then it's it.

It became like their best trilogy yet.

And I just love the character arcs he throws in there.

I love the things that he loves.

He really you know, puts into his films.

And you can see a James Gun movie.

Uh, there's there's a lot of stuff that crosses over.

And for that, you know, I've I've been a fan of his even Hey, Scooby Doo and Scooby Doo two, those Yeah, Baldi movies.

Don the dead.

Hey, go back to Tromeo and Juliet.

I mean The Guy Specials, which specials his TV superhero movie.

I don't know, maybe I haven't seen that one.

It's not what is this one?

It's not great, it's.

Not great, But yeah, I am a big fan, and so I was excited to go see it.

So yeah, I did have to go see it that that opening night.

It's so funny that, like, you know, my my friend Richie and I, who are massive Superman fans, became friends because of Superman because we were both singing the Superman theme together after a high school high school play rehearsal.

We always speculate like who would be the best director for Superman?

Like who do we want to direct Superman?

And weirdly enough, James Gunn was never on my radar as far as somebody who I would pick because of the fact I think his movies are so irreverent and the films he does are so focused on like the outsiders and like the people who don't fit in.

In the weirdos.

And Superman certainly is an outsider, like he is an alien from another planet and has that outsider status, but in general is almost like so representative of like the classic superhero archetype and the quote unquote status quote that I just never thought about James Gunn wanting to take on something like that.

I thought he was more obsessed with things like Darker and Twisted.

And when he announced that he was doing the film, which was not long after I think he and Peter Saffron announced that they were taken over DC, I just remember being like, oh my God, like, I love that idea.

And then he really won me over when he started tweeting about how much he loved Donner Superman and how much that movie meant to him, and I was just like, look, I just want a filmmaker who can acknowledge that movie's greatness and accept outside of the nostalgia of Donner's film, just acknowledging it as a piece of cinema that is important.

That made me really really excited, And so I have been a fan.

I would say I have been a fan of James Gunn.

Weirdly enough, I think my respect and adoration for him grew when he was fired from Guardians three, just the way he handled it and then seeing all of like the cast and crew go to bat for him.

You just knew this was like.

A good, decent person to have people really fight for him, and then when he got to come back, it was just like I was like, you know what, this guy is awesome, and it just felt like when he was taking on the reins of Superman, I knew it was going to be in good hands.

I knew we were going to get something special, and.

I was really excited.

And then it just happened to work out, you know, after all this excitement.

And build up.

The first week Superman was in theaters, I got to see it at the press screening, which was on a Monday.

Then Sarah and I had already purchased tickets to the Amazon Prime screening which was on the Tuesday.

And then a buddy of mine, I convinced him that it was a great birthday present for him if I took him to see Superman on the actual opening day.

So I saw Superman three times opening week.

I imagine you've been really insufferable this past Yeah, it was.

It was.

It was a great week.

Let me just I'm just glad.

I have a lot of states betweenman.

It's funny you say that, Brad, because Brad and I we saw it and you were the only other person I knew I could talk to about it.

So we don't normally call each other to rant about a movie we just seen, but I remember like texting you and you were just like, dude, just call me.

So you were the.

First person I talked to about my experience watching Superman, and it was very similar to yours, which was just like when it comes to these big movies that you build up and you're so excited for, and no matter how much you try to temper your expectations, you just can't.

Really you You do tend to watch the film that first viewing.

And I feel, yeah, I think you're kind of from it.

It's not that I'm just excited for a new Superman movie.

It's that I have really intense opinions about what is and is not a Superman movie, right, yes, built over decades of reading the comics and watching these movies, and so you really have to get out of this jail cell.

Or I had to get out of this jail cell that I had built of what I would want my Superman movie to be.

I didn't make the movie, and if if I want my super movie, I should really go out and make my own Superman movie, you'd probably have to be a bootleg, you know, I quite like watch that.

Yeah, But you know, like the great thing about a character like Superman or a character like Batman or any of these like comic book characters who've been around for decades is that there are it's probably already a version that is pure and perfect to you, and that exists on the shelf or on the screen already, and so it allows for people to come in and muck about a little bit, and in the mucking about with these ideas, something new or slightly new can be created and you just have to then adjust or I just have to adjust to that new thing.

And I think that was the process I was going through, and I think our conversation on the phone that night really helped me in that process as well.

Yeah, likewise, I think it and it's but it's it's only fair for you to feel passionate about something.

And it's the same thing like with a with a Star Wars or a Batman, where you're like, you know, you are excited, and this is like, you know, we all have our fandoms, we all have our obsessions where we get really really built up about something where it's total and it's not all it's it's not that it's not healthy, it's just that it's not healthy.

If you cling to that and.

You say, like exclusively, well, because it was not exactly what I expected and wanted it to be, it's terrible.

Therefore it's terrible.

Even think it's terrible for whatever reason you want to.

But then just keep that anger and hatred, you know, to yourself.

Well, I think anybody, yes, exactly, like that's that's the problem when the outlet for it is like negativity towards somebody who enjoyed it, like you know, like things like that.

So I think, and this has happened to me, you know, a couple of times, honestly, I think the last time it was my anticipation for a film was this level of excitement was probably like maybe you know Avengers Endgame or The Force Awakens, and I've been through enough of this and.

I'm old enough for me.

It was Paddington too.

Paddington two is a big luckily succeed and exceeded, Yes, succeeded.

What do you think of Paddington in Peru?

I started it on Netflix and I didn't finish it yet.

Not that it was bad.

I just we got to but that is the appropriate that is, yes, yeah, yeah, I can't bring myself to watch it.

It's okay.

I love Paul King too much.

Yes, it was my devotion to Paul King that that led me astray exactly.

So I think there is like it's okay to like to be excited for a film.

And I think what's happened to me as I've grown older is it's more of the recognition of knowing like, Okay, I've watched this trailer, Like you know, the Superman trailers were amazing, and I had a very visceral emotional reaction, especially to that first trailer.

So in a way, it was almost like separating myself from my reaction to that trailer.

I I almost felt like if that had been the movie, I would have been perfectly happy, because that two and a half minute trailer gave me everything I wanted from a Superman film for a long time.

But then of course it's like it's just it's just a very concentrated emotional spurt of energy that's representing the film, but it's not the film itself.

So I feel like I've gotten better at that.

But even then, I think I going into Superman with these expectations, I was.

A little more flexible and a little.

More willing to say, you know, I may come out of this feeling a little not disappointed, but a little bit like I might have to make some adjustments and really figure out how I feel.

And that's how I felt.

And they go to counseling and like, you know, burn all my Superman memorabilia that I thought I wanted, but.

So much Superman of us.

My dear friend Cale, who was with me at that press screen, uh, we walked out of that theater and I walked straight to the the popcorn buckets and bought every single item that I could get my hands on.

And as just Sean, just let you know, this actually isn't a podcast, it's an intervention.

It's an interesting It was.

It was amazing.

I wish everyone could have seen it.

It was truly a pathetic moment.

In my life.

And I don't regret one bit.

But I was literally just like handing over every piece of Superman memorabilia to these poor kids behind the counter who were I was joking with them and like, am I is this a problem?

Should I be buying all this stuff, and I think these kids didn't know what to say.

They didn't want to.

See the man.

Yeah.

Yeah, they were like.

Afraid their manager was going to look over their shoulder and be like try to upsell them.

But they did literally start bringing me stuff.

The kids behind the counter.

They were like you you forgot this popcorn bucket and I was like, put it on my tab.

And my my dear friend Cale he was next to me and he was just like, you guys just don't understand Sean.

This is Sean's big moment.

He's been waiting for them, and he was.

Very sweet and supportive, and I was like, please don't, yeah, please, don't we need to bring Kale.

Come on ends.

It's just, oh my god, you brought Caale.

I didn't even know you knew Cale.

But this is all to say the first time was an experience.

I had fun, I had qualms.

I still have qualms, but like you, Brad, I I got to see it the very next day with my wife and with a really energetic crowd, and I think that cemented my love for the film and my appreciation for what James Gunn did.

Sean, how many times have you seen it?

I've seen it five times now, Aaron, how many times have you seen it twice?

Maybe?

All right?

Oh well, Aaron, well how did you feel erin?

I loved it like it was something that was just it provided that Dopeman hit of what I was hoping it would provide of of hope and humanity and something that felt and looked like a comic book strip come to life and just had all of the positive, you know, energy that I was looking for.

Because you know, we're having kids.

Our usual, uh, especially for for my family, our usual like if we're going to go all see a movie together, uh, you know, since it takes you know, a lot of effort and and a lot of money.

One one movie.

Popcorn buckets to you.

We we we we we get the one large and then we bring a plastic bag and then we dumped the we dumped the popcorn in the classic bag and then we go get a refill so we can.

Share it because you can take for dinner.

That absolutely, you know how it is exactly.

But when it comes to our movie going watching, you know, we only do like so many when we're doing it all together and on an opening night thing, so it's usually an mcu film, because that's just kind of like it's something that all five of us can kind of oh yeah, we'll all go and see that, because just the other night we all went to the movies, but the the ladies went to go see Freaky Friday and the boys went to go see Naked Gun.

But it was something that just I I fell in love with and had a great time and I couldn't I couldn't wait to watch it with the with the family, especially the boys, because they're, you know, big into superheroes, and they know, even at their age, they know something just kind of fell off with you know, Snyder's iteration of Superman and let's.

Not get into it.

That's I'm not.

I'm not that's all I'm That's all I'm bringing up.

That's all I'm bringing you can.

Find you can find all those great conversations right here.

Yes, Ared, I had a conversation with a friend at coma Kat who listened to those episodes.

He was like, you guys were really getting into it shout out to by the way, Uh.

Yeah, no, that's all.

That's all I'm gonna say is is that my kids can kind of see it.

And and there was you know, it's it doesn't really illicit the rewatchability of one to go seeing because it's even if you enjoy it, I feel like it does have to become a bummer, you know, to kind of watch that sometimes, and this didn't have that same feeling.

It left you feeling with a lot of lightness and filled your heart a little bit, filled your soul, and it made me really excited to see a really great ground level landscape of like, this is what we're building on top of, and I'm really excited to see what builds off of this this work.

Brad, you had a really great point when and you and I.

It's in your review, you talked about it, and you and Lisa talked about it in Comic Book Couples Counseling podcast review.

But one of the things that I think like immediately you verbalized that I was struggling with is you were like, this is they put the action in action comics when it comes to this movie, this is an action movie first and foremost.

Yeah, I was really surprised by how much action was in this film.

But at the same time, on rewatch, I also come to believe that you know, action is story two and there's a lot of story within the copious amounts of action that we are getting in James Gunn Superman.

Yeah, and I think, you know, one of my favorite video reviewers, High Top Alex he has done fantastic reviews.

He had a really great take on Superman as well, and it's kind of frantic pace.

And his point really is, like, look, audiences in general are kind of like bored with Superman.

They're bored with superhero movies in general.

But certainly Superman has kind of had a strange reputation where in the past twenty years, the big screen iterations we've seen of Superman are either like Superman returns so incredibly self serious and very very dull, not a lot of action, or like Man of Steel and the you know, the Snyder verse, which is just like very dour, very intense, very dark, plenty of action, but kind of like you said, Aaron, that you're not necessarily walking out of the theater with like a pep in your step, you're kind of feeling that waste.

Well, and like all the previous cinematic interpretations as Superman, including Donner position Superman as the strongest thing out there and yeah, you know, and and it created in the larger mainstream pop culture conscious this idea that Superman is boring because he's unbeatable and that's that's sat Saint like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but but but the unbeatable factors actually never been true in the comics because there have been so many to use this film's vocabulary metahumans within the DCU to combat Superman, like he's more than just like the guy who can only be broken by kryptonite.

You know, yes, yes, for sure.

And I think the problem we got locked into the Donner mode because the Donner film up until this point really is like the only truly successful big screen version of this character.

And I think people were like, well, either we're gonna repeat that, or we're gonna depart so intensely from it that it's really gonna go way too far.

Well, I would just say that the movies have given and the TV shows have given people the wrong idea of what Superman is as a creature.

When you can when you can turn back time in the very first movie, like that sets a big order of what your abilities are, Like, Okay, so what is you know, what what can this guy not affect?

You know?

If you can do that.

I do want to give a shout out to Superman on Lois because I think in the midst of the excitement around James Gun's movie, it is kind of getting lost in the fray.

And I think that show was absolutely spectacular in the way it portrays it.

And I cannot talk about that because I did not watch any of it.

I know, and this is really just me trying to guilt trip you into watching it.

But I'll get to it.

I think you will, and I think it is a It's a phenomenal show and well worth watching, especially if like you're looking for more ways to get a Superman fixed.

Definitely read some.

Comics eighty five years of comics.

Eighty five years of comics to watch or to read, and then definitely watch Superman and Lewis.

Maybe don't get that confused with Lois and Clark.

I'll just put that out there.

Let's not talk about that.

But yeah, I think on this podcast, I think that first viewing for me with James Gun's film, my immediate real if I could have a capsule review of it, it's like, well, that that is James Guns Superman like, which is impressive, first and foremost because, as we said, the Marvel films lately, as of late, have felt very like just of the same ilk, not a lot of identity.

They feel kind of cookie cutter.

So the fact that you.

Say, yeah, you say that, I say, as of late, as of this year, apart from one, I feel like there's a lot of stuff and I think it's just it is kind of getting that dismissive sort of.

Let's say the MCU has had a bit of a comeback this year, but it's still suffering financially because of the mistakes.

Of this I also did.

That's what you said.

This is all the this is all the truth.

You just have to deal with that.

But this is all to say that, uh, coming into that film and feeling like, Okay, it's a big budget superhero movie.

Superhero movies are getting not because you know, it feels like they're a Dima does and they don't have their own identity like you've seen one, You've seen them all.

So to come out of this one, which is like the granddaddy of all superheroes, who does people have struggled to like, you know, what's the level of respect?

But you also want to do your own thing.

But it's hard to identify with this character over Yeah, I mean you got any of the other you know, big ones, you know, Rocket, right Man, Rocket Raccoon, even, you know, I think that.

I think there's a lot of easier ways to, uh to find yourself relating to those characters, and Superman's a very hard one to put that to.

And I think Gunn does a really fantastic uh gives a great fantastic viewpoint of of who he is as Clark and who he is as keal El, the different variations of who Superman is to different people.

I think he does a great job of displaying that.

Yeah, I think so too, And I think that more than anything it had, it carries his personal stamp, you know, Like it's like there there aren't a lot of filmmakers.

It feels like working in this realm, like the giant, big budget particularly superhero realm, Like Matt Reeves is one.

Of them for sure.

And I think who directed what's the guy's name who directed Fantastic for First Steps, Matt Sha Sha shack Man.

I really enjoyed fantastic for it, like you know, I think, and I hear Thunderbolts is really good as well.

So you know, there were maybe this is a topic we shouldn't we shouldn't broach.

But this is all to say I was really really impressed that James, who has been touting like, you know, I don't think superhero movies are the problem.

I think mediocre movies are the problem.

And we've got to get that script right.

We've got to figure out why we're telling the story, and let's start at the heart of it first and let's build from there.

And it was really cool to see this.

Film work, not only for me as a Superman fan, like seeing like, oh, finally I get another really great Superheran movie, but.

Also like another great James Gun movie.

It feels like a James Gun movie.

And I think it was weird for me watching it the first time, because what I love so much about Donner's film is that kind of mythic quality and that kind of like, you know, there is a level of like religious quality to it.

It's fun, but you are treating Superman as like, oh, he's basically Jesus.

But I mean, like, I don't I don't even know if if Donner treats Superman like Jesus.

I think other directors treating like Jesus.

But Donner is in racing American mythology.

Yes, so there is an element of like grandeur and it's like a fable, like you like it is American mythology.

So there is that vibe to the Donner film.

And it's not that it's not in James Gunn's film, but this is very much looking at Superman.

It's like, all right, we've done the like the mythic adaptation of like accepting Superman as a piece of American folklore in culture.

Now let's just do the really fun embracing like what Superman has been in reality in the comic books, Like let's go back to the Silver Age, Let's get the wacky stuff, Let's have fun.

The movie is so much weird than I was anticipating.

I was anticipating a weird movie.

I was too, And I think you you nailed it on the head, Brad when you said, like I knew he was saying he was influenced by All Star Superman.

I didn't realize he actually was going.

To be like that's like, that's why I love I really feel like James Gunn is the only blockbuster filmmaker to make a superhero movie, who legitimately loves superhero stories and can talk the talk and walk the walk, and you know, has gone out of his way to promote the creators of all these various comic book stories, and you know shows a tremendous comic book influence within this film.

And I think, you know, one of the many reasons I like this movie so much is that it gets going as if we had just picked up issue three eighty seven of like a six issue arc, and it doesn't like catch us back up.

Like when the movie opens with what we saw on the trailer of Superman falling to the snow and bleeding and Crypto coming to his rescue.

Even as I was watching that scene, I was assuming we were then going to get a flashback, and the fact that we don't, just like, yo, you're gonna catch up.

The confidence of that, and the embracing of the serialized storytelling of that, I mean, okay, I'm in love.

Yeah.

But then also like then, you know, we go immediately to Lex Luthor with his goons in their giant high rise, their building and playing essentially playing a video game.

Yeah, for like the otis otis is line, just like the He's he's programmed hundreds of different fight moves to take on Superman in every situation.

I remember thinking immediately I was like, Okay, we are just going completely out there.

We're going full on wacky uh.

And I was like I'm into this, Like let's let's go for it.

But it definitely threw me for a loop.

I think the film is is so heartfelt and so sincere in its emotions, but I think because it was.

I don't I don't necessarily.

Want another precious Superman movie, like a Superman movie that's like super precious with the character.

But it did take a moment for me to kind of adjust from like that feeling of mythic quality to like, oh, this is going to be more like fun wham bampal comic book driven action and excitement.

So it was that was a little difficult for me.

But I think on the second viewing, having the understanding of knowing where James Gunn was going and my expectations being more in place, I was able to embrace it for what it was and really appreciate just the like the beauty of the story and the idea of using Superman as a reminder of how important it is to be a good person and to demonstrate kindness even to people who don't deserve it.

And also how hard it is.

Yes, yeah, that it's not something that you know Superman.

It's like, oh, it's like, well, he's perfect and he has no problems.

And I think James addresses it head on.

But it's not like this is a new It's not like James is saying, well, let's switch it up and let's make it so that Superman does have problems.

It's like, this is stuff that has existed in Superman Low for years and years.

We just haven't really seen it on the big screen before.

And I love, as you said, he's so passionate and he's so in love with this stuff, and he grew up with it, and he has a it comes from such a place of affection and care and love that that can't help but come through.

But he really, you know, he really demonstrates it with how he presents Superman and how he puts Superman through the ringer, and how Superman's decision to be a good person is a decision that's a really it's a really cool element to this film that you know, we have become so used to the idea of, you know, Kyle el sent to Earth by Jarell and Laura because they're good people, and they sent him to Earth to save the Earth.

And to save him.

But like to switch it on its head and say that Clark's origins are not as not as noble, that his parents did not have that noble cause behind them, that.

They actually wanted him to kind of conquer and take over and create a harem.

And you know, the word used so much as I laugh.

I laugh every time, and nobody else in the theater would laugh.

And I'm like, am I the only one who thinks this is really funny?

It's just because it's uncomfortable, is what it is.

Yeah, well it's uncomfortable, and I think it's because maybe loving Superman so much.

The idea of like anybody saying like Superman has a secret aram is very very funny to me.

But like this is all to say that James, I think, made a very purposeful decision to have this be a film in which it is clear that Superman is Superman, not because it's his destiny or preordained.

It's because he chooses to be and it's not that that isn't in the original idea with his parents having noble intentions.

But I think by changing it and like turning that idea on its head, James is really able to emphasize the heroism of this character and why the character is so special.

Yeah, so now we need to talk about the things that made me uncomfortable.

Okay, the harem.

Yeah you brought us to it.

Okay.

Uh.

I love the function of the Jorrell message being revealed to not be the noble intentions that he thought it was, right, Like, he's basically me as an American waking up one day and going like, hold on America is not awesome.

I mean, it's that happened.

America has actually been built on blood and uh bones of people that we stole from other lands.

And wait, you know, like like all of that's like when when you have a realization that maybe the thing that you grew up in isn't this pure beautiful thing that you were taught in school in elementary school.

Like I love how Superman has an awakening in this movie.

I still don't know if I love how that message was revealed.

The totality of that message was revealed, right, Yeah, the way that Lex Luthor breaks into the Fortress of Solitude.

Full spoilers, right did we say that we're spoilers.

It's coming out on demand tomorrow.

Yeah, God damn it.

And the engineer hacks the Fortress of Solitudes yeah, computer and is able to fix this message that has been broken for so long because those robots are not good engineers themselves.

They're not really good security even though they're of the Kryptonian technology.

Whatever.

Uh and maybe maybe Gary did know, that's the other thought.

And so Lex Luthor gets the full message and then reveals it to the world and Superman's like that can't possibly be true, and then we have missed terrific are like, no, no, they wouldn't lie.

I know those guys right right wait what well yeah, And then we never come back to that message again because we have the thematic growth and the conclusion of that whole thing with paw Kent back in Smallville on the porch, and that is such a beautiful scene.

So like at the end of the day where we end up with the story and this idea that you are the you are your own actions, and you are your own choices, Like, yeah, I'm all about that.

I just find it weird that mister Trifi's like, yo, I know those guys.

Well, I wish we got back to the message in some way.

I do agree with that, and it might come up in a future film, but I, you know, I don't want that to be an excuse, Like I think every film should be able to stand alone and feel like a complete thing, and I don't want to literally.

I think it does.

I just if I have an awkwardness about that this movie, A big awkwardness about this movie.

That's where it is for me after two watches.

Well, you know what it is for me personally is the is It comes down to the pacing of the film.

It is a very frantic like like we are moving, We're on the move, we are going eighty eight miles per hour from the get go, and moments like that big beats that are like, you know, completely changing the mythos and like blowing.

Up our idea of what Oh wait, I thought Durell was a good what's going on here?

Is never a good person?

But all of this happened so quickly, and it happened so fast, Like the beats are very very quick, and like we you know, we barely get a moment for Superman to kind of process this and then suddenly the world has turned on him.

Also, like, wait, so is lexa do people like Lex Luthor?

Like how does the population feel about him?

Because everyone seems to really love Superman, but now they believe Lex even though Lex just went on TV and steid.

That doesn't bother me at all because I live in twenty.

Five Yeah exactly, yeah, but yes, exactly how it felt.

But you get what I'm saying, Like it's all very very frantic, and I think the movie there's a part of me that's like, I do want live in the world where the two hour movie makes a comeback, especially with superhero films where like so.

Many of them have been two hours and forty.

You're not gonna get Aaron to admit to that he's a ninety minute guy.

Tight ninety maybe, I know.

But I'm saying like, this is about as close as we're gonna get to that, And I think what you end up losing maybe is some of that some of that nuance?

Yeah, possibly, possibly, yeah, And I don't think it's like, I mean, it's not impossible to make a two hour film with you know, a level of like action and nuance and things like that.

We have some of the greatest movies ever that are less than two hours that do that.

But I think maybe James, in the process of making a new Superman movie and doing something new with the character and building the DCU and trying all these new things, I think the film does have a lot going on, and arguably maybe too much.

But I don't know.

Eron, how do you feel?

I really thought like this movie just cooked for me.

It really like it moved along at a great pace.

I didn't have a problem with you know, Jorelle popping in and saying Earth Girls are easy, you know to do this or that.

It was.

It was just kind of liken't the word harm in a Superman movie?

You know?

Why not?

I want to bring my like two year old to Superman.

You know, they don't know what they don't know?

No, don't Caren, eight year old, Like you're now going to explain what a Harram is to here.

I listen, there's lots of stuff I had explained during Ghostbusters in certain scenes, So stuff just happens.

Man, Like I don't have kids, you guys are the dads in this podcast.

I didn't say I'm a good one.

In the Donner Superman film when she says how big are you?

How tall are you?

It took me until maybe the past few years to realize what that meant.

So exactly, it's great.

To use you.

I don't know if I like the dick joke and daughter Superman.

I'm a real prude, is what I'm discovering.

The one without kids is the most concerned about y Yeah, yeah film.

Yeah no, but mine didn't have, you know, a problem.

It was it was like, oh, what does that mean?

Lots of girlfriends?

Okay, cool, like just move on with it.

It's just like, I.

Did you actually explain harem to your son?

Uh?

Yeah?

I mean well, I mean, I mean that's awesome, simple, right, you know.

No, guess what madout it?

You're dad?

There you go, there you go.

Uh no, But I I think I just liked the trajectory of where it started to where it ended up.

The you know what we were trying to get through that those bookends with you know, you know, put put on you know, uh the you know, the video of his family and it calms him.

And from where that went to how that ended up and the knew his new updated family video.

Yes, so much time.

It was so it was so good.

It was perfect, and he just kind of like looked over and you know, my kids were just like that was a good movie.

You know, feel good about it?

You remember, really do I I had I took a friend to see it for him.

You better have taken twenty friends.

It sounds I took a lot of friends.

Yeah, but I took one of my friends and seat and at the end, like you could see the emotion in her eyes and she turned to me and she was just like, I, you know, I needed that, Like I you know, that was like it thank God, Like we got back to the basics.

Like it feels like it shouldn't have taken.

It shouldn't have been this difficult to make this Superman movie.

But here's here's the thing.

Like I wrote way too much in my little stupid letterbox review of Superman and so little of it actually pertaining to the movie.

It was more like that out real quick.

Yeah, everyone like Aaron's letterbox review a cool hand fluke on.

The No, it's it's awful because it's it's literally talking about how we got to the twenty thirteen version and how we got to this version, and how we get to this version feels like sometimes like we we don't see the light until we are in the darkness, you know, and it feels like we're in such a period where, uh, there's a reason why that twenty thirteen version was that version at that moment, you know, having something to say about where we were as a culture, as a society, and where this one comes out to say something where uh, you know when he's when you know, James Gunn, you know, isn't necessarily commenting at the immigrant issue at that moment or commenting directly to the Israel Palestine issue at that moment.

It's something that is just kind of like you can feel it in the air and you don't really see something when you're when you're writing it or when you have these you know, these feelings that are coming out, but you need this type of character to kind of get you through it.

And for me, that's just kind of what this character was.

That's what this movie was.

It was the movie that we needed in twenty twenty five for the way that we're all kind of feeling when we're just kind of like we were scrolling through you know, Instagram or whatever, and it just feels like it were surrounded by darkness and then the darkest timeline and Superman.

This Superman just adds a little bit of light and hope and humanity that you know, we kind of feel like it's missing sometimes.

Sorry, well, I think that's what I've always loved about the character.

It's why, you know, when I was able to relax a little bit during the second viewing, I was really able to embrace it.

It's because the thesis statement of the movie is, you know, maybe kindness is punk rock, Like in a world where like cynicism and sarcasm and meanness and being real snarky with each other in every given situation is the norm, being a good person and saving a squirrel is the right thing to do.

You know.

I would like everybody to listen to Comic Book Couples Counseling about two years ago when Lisa said that kindness is the new punk rock it was?

Did she say that?

She did?

She said that verbatim.

Yeah, maybe James trademark, Yeah, you needed to get that trademarked.

But like it's in the air, was saying that it is it is.

But I think that is it is.

I don't want to take away from other great comic book heroes and superheroes.

You know, I think this is really in the DNA of characters like Spider Man.

But I've always but.

You can you can say that because Superman is the superhero.

Yeah.

Well, I do feel like it's something that is so crucial to Superman, like to have the most powerful being in the universe be the one who's who will save the squirrel from getting smashed, that that means something to him, and that he will be looking out for people, and we want that, we need that, and but not only that, like to feel like that being cares and actually does give a shit about you and is willing to stop and say like, are you okay?

It's gonna be all right?

You know.

I love the moment where after the kaiju kind of flame throws the out of the building, he kind of turns around and realizes, like the pep, He's like, is everyone okay?

And the woman kind of nods at him.

And he sort of gives her like a nod back, and then he's like, hey, let's so we're taking the fight elsewhere to get away from the people.

But he cares about people and that's so crucial to this character.

So for me, there are things that I complain about with the film.

I think there are things that don't work about it, But ultimately it comes down to how meaningful it is for me as a Superman fan to have a new Superman film in twenty twenty five home in on that as like, no, this is why this character is special, this is why we love Superman.

At the core of it, I think this is why he means so much to us.

That outweighs so much and gives so much of a pass I think to maybe some of the things that I feel like it's it's a little bit too frantic.

Is that plot point work for me?

I don't know.

I'm willing to forgive a lot strictly because at the core of it, the heart is in the right place and at the very least, like Superman is Superman.

I'm really glad that we have Man of Steel, though, because we know there is a possibility that Sean could hate a Superman movie.

I don't, But I don't hate Man of Steel.

I think you don't.

I think check the tape, check the hate BBS.

But I don't hate Man of Steel.

But you know I I without without the Snyder movies, I don't think we would have gotten to this point where it's like, no, that's not what we want from Superman.

This is where we want to go with Superman, and it's not a you know, yes, it's cool to see different filmmakers have their interpretations of characters, but I think when you actively ignore those aspects of Superman, you're you're missing the point, like you really are missing what makes the character special.

And I think that to me is what you know drives me crazy about those movies versus versus this one.

But speaking of Superman and the cast in general, uh, talking about David korn Sweat.

I think I've told this story before, but I remember when some names were being thrown about in casting, like they were like, all right, James Gunn is considering.

I think Jacob Allardi was on that list, And I remember seeing the name David corn Sweat and I was like, well, I think I've seen Jacob Alardi.

I know what he looks like.

I don't know who this David Corden Sweat person is, but I remember you couldn't find much of him on YouTube.

I was trying to find something that would like, give me an insight into like could this guy play Superman.

I couldn't find anything, but I did find an interview with him talking about like how when he was a kid the superhero, the superpower he always wanted was the Force, and he used to convince himself he could move things with his mind, and then he said the other superpower he wanted was to have John Williams music follow him wherever he went.

And then he started talking about like outer space and how amazing it was.

He's like, isn't it crazy, like people looked at.

The moon and thought like we could probably get there right like people, And he was just geeking out about outer space, and I was like, well, I don't have to look at any other people.

That's Superman.

Like if that guy gets cast, then I'm I'm thrilled beyond all reason.

And then when he ended up getting cast, I was on board from the get go.

But David Korn's what how do we feel about him?

Brat, how did you feel about David?

I think he's perfect, and I think his chemistry with Rachel Brosnahan is even more perfect.

They're so good together.

And like my first reaction to the movie is that we didn't get enough of them together.

But then on my second watch of the movie, I think we actually get the right amount of time with Klois because I like that Lois has her own plot that she's got to go through, and all this stuff with Lois away from Clark I really really enjoy too.

I think the cast as a whole is fantastic.

I love the supporting players.

I'm here for a five hour cut of this movie.

I like more of them, and that's really my only complaint.

Yeah, I think more Daily Planet crew could go a long way.

More Clark can with the glasses at the Daily Planet.

More Wendell Pierce as Perry White.

I wont Jimmy Olsen give me that HBO Max series where he gets it?

Yes, yeah, but I you know, you're right.

I think one of the things that bugged me was feeling like, well, because we're kind of thrown into the middle, like we pulled issue number twenty off the shelf without having read any of the other ones, it does feel a little bit like, oh, we're you know, Lois and Clark are already in the midst of a relationship, and how do I feel about this?

Do I miss seeing the two of them kind of like develop that romance, and you know, there's a part of me that does, but then there's also a part of me that's like, well, we've seen that.

Definitely not yeah, because we have seen it in the jillion times.

And the scene that we get where we really are introduced to them as a couple, the interview sequence is one of my favorite sequences of any movie this year.

Oh my god, I know it's fifteen minutes, and it like they well, I think it's ten.

I think it actually is like ten twelve minutes or so of the film.

But like I was like that, that's not true.

That's not ten minutes.

That's like five minutes.

But it's like it's a ten minute from the moment I think she shows up at the apartment to the moment where he leaves.

I think it is about ten minutes or so.

And it flies by, and there's a part of me that wonders if, Like in the cutting of the film, James is like, this scene needs to be in the film and its entirety.

It's at the beginning, So I get like, you know, I have to pack the rest of the film with action just in case people are not on board with this, But then the opposite happened.

People were kind of like, I want more.

Of I don't.

I think James knew exactly what he was doing.

I think we have just the right amount of time.

I think it comes in perfectly where it needs to come in, Like that's the movie.

That's the moment where I was like, Okay, this movie is going to be great, Like yeah, even on my first watch, you know, like I didn't have the issues that you had where you're like, oh, I don't know about the pacing of this.

Like, to me, the first half of this movie was everything I wanted it to be.

And like, again, the only thing that really bothered me is the thing we already talked about not.

Coming back to Durell.

Yeah, yeah, well that but that's the thing.

I think for my second viewing, I realized maybe I do want more close and that is still a sticking point for me.

But the stuff we get of them together is so phenomenal and beautifully written, beautifully staged, like their their second big scene together.

Yes, the moment of like the fight, you know that just this whatever in the background.

I think some people he says, like a cosmic imp so it's like, is that mixes piddlick?

No, it's just some stupid crap.

Just something.

It's but it's like just like life in Metropolis, and it's I love that.

That so much.

I love the Internet, the Internet.

It's like, I think that's mister, No, dude, it's not.

It's a thing.

Don't worry about it.

What if it does turn out to be Oh God, like, we.

Don't need to give any validation to these easters.

I do, but I miss I want I want some more Daily Planet crew.

I did want.

I missed that crew.

I miss Clark Kent as a reporter.

I missed that stuff.

And you know, I'm okay with trading at this time around, but we can slow down a little bit.

I think the next time around, Aaron, did that work for you?

Did that relationship work for you?

The romance?

I mean, I want more of that Jimmy Elson energy as well.

That just like all of it hit.

Yes, the Lowis and Clark relationship and being already like we've already got the meat cue that already happened.

We don't need that again.

We're in like the early stages of you know the messiness of truly understanding who these people are in a relationship and how they deal with one being you know this you know alien super god and another one saying, yeah, but this is where we live, and this is you know, having to kind of understand and and flesh out all this stuff.

I thought it was fantastic.

And yeah, every every single like little playing character was was was just perfect.

I do agree I would want some more daily plant stuff, but I also feel like we got just an amount to tell the story that we're telling.

And so yeah, if we get that Jimmy Olsen HBC series, I think that'd be fantastic.

But I really liked just the relationship that they all shared.

But especially every time we saw Clark, or especially David corn Sweat as Clark, I was like, that was another aspect that reminded me what I missed in Snyder's Superman.

And it's not that I don't think Henry Cavill can't do it, because I think he does.

I think that you know, it is it's so much of Zack Snyder's singular vision of who this character was.

It didn't allow that Clark to show up for to be an absolute, you know, cornball of a dude.

That like, you know, just looks goofy and we when you look at at a at a Henry Calvill, You're like, you're definitely Superman.

I can see you.

Like even when you put those last there's no mistaking it, you know.

And but David Cornsweat just kind of melted into character, just like Chris h Reeves.

Did you know there was there was a you could tell that there was time spent on who those two characters were, and they were two characters that you know, one was a character and one was the actual, you know person.

You could tell that korn Sweat really put a lot of time and effort into differentiating those two and so I just love that.

So yeah, give me more more Daily Planet, give me more.

All of it.

Really, it just it was it was so much fun.

Well, and speaking of David korn Sweat as Clark and like you know, getting to the core of that character and like who's which one's the real one?

And like is it a put on at all points?

Is he putting on a performance when he's Superman?

But like the moment between him and and Jonathan on the bench, Aaron I kept coming back to what we talked about.

We talked about the Donner film, which is just like because Glenn Ford and that scene and the Donner Superman film is so powerful and effective it slips your mind that it's like, oh, he maybe has like it's like a four minute scene like the heart of the movie, one of the like the really like emotional relationships in the film.

One of the emotional cores of that film lasts like three or four minutes.

And it reminded me of that because we do get so little time with the Kents, and they are so wonderful and that little bit of time we have them, but like just that little moment between him and Jonathan of that like sincerity and like just like the pain when Clark said like it it gets me when Clark says like they sent me here to hurt people, Like it's like that that to him is the ultimate blows.

It's like, yeah, I don't want to hurt.

I could hear Jonathan can say burritos all day long, though.

Yes please, And I want more of that.

But I think like just those beautiful moments where we do we get them, like the human moments are there, and Brad to your point, like the action is story and like there is a lot of action in the film, but we are seeing a lot and learning a lot about these characters.

None of it felt like a producer note of like, oh we need an action beat here.

It was all serviceable to what the next part of the story was to tell this or that it was.

It was, Yeah, it just really clicked for me.

So how do we feel about that?

We've talked about Lois, We've talked about Clark, we have not talked about mister Luthor.

How how do we feel about Nicholas Hoult Brad love them?

Yep, he's great, I will say, though I don't know if I love like completely manic Luthor.

I part of me wanted, part of me does love like just he's awful and zany and crazy.

But I think some of this plays into maybe my confusion with the franticness of the plot and like lex Luthor being on a big TV and saying like Superman's evil, He's grooming us all that stuff.

What do you like what part of it?

Yeah?

Like just I think I guess like he is.

So purely evil from the start, Like I was kind of like, do people like him?

Like?

Is he charming?

Where you been the last thirteen years.

Yeah, I get, and I get that, like that makes that's fair.

Well I was on Fox News or Alex Jones or whatever.

I don't think you'd be watching that.

But that makes him less interesting to me.

So when I want to agree, I deeply disagree.

When I when I see Lex Luthor, like I want to feel some level of empathy for him, I don't feel.

I don't feel a lot of empathy.

I don't feel a lot of empathy for for the people that.

We are describing in the real world.

You are really channeling Superman.

You're like, we gotta find our empathy.

For Lex Luthor.

I mean, sirrel.

He's like a squirrel.

I mean maybe maybe that maybe that's the real I mean, he is.

The product of his genes and his environment, and he's damned by those things, the way that all the assholes on this planet are.

And so I have like some understanding of their humanity.

And I think it's important to recognize the humanity of the scum of this planet so that we can avoid having more scum on this planet.

But like, Lex Luthor is highly relatable.

He is somebody I see every goddamn day, and I really enjoyed how that version challenges this version of Clark Kent and his desire to love people.

You know, Like that's why I think it's so important that we get this particular version of Lex Luthor in this movie and the whole business about envy and you know, the ultraman of it all.

I freaking love everything with Lex Luthor and Luther Corp and James.

I was just gonna I was just gonna say that it's that final shout match showdown is what it all comes down to, because we know, we got like, you know, the big ultraman CG you know, fight and explosions and you know, a dimension rip that's you know, tearing through the city and all that stuff.

And the only thing that that Clark has to fight against against Lex is are his words, are his humanity and him showing, you know, how much stronger he is just by you know, trying to be a good person, because if he does anything less, you know, he's turned into the person that Lex has feared him to be.

And I found that so compelling and so interesting because what it showed between you know, other iterations of Superman, it's not it's not how hard you can punch, it's how how much you can it's how much you pull back, It's how much, it's how much you can pull your punches, how much you can, like you can, you know, hold yourself back because you know you have that strength to just decimate that dude and end all the suffering.

But there's something about where, you know, where he's maybe trying to find some sympathetic you know part to Lex.

Somebody who prays at the altar of All Stars Superman by Grant Morrison and Frank Quiety, Like that book presents like two modes of behavior to follow, you know, and you need to have those two modes.

You know, it's the Angel and the Devil on your shoulder.

You need to have the Superman and you need to have the Lex Luthor because we have those around us.

And it's about like, well, you know, it's easy to fall into Lex Luthor mode and follow Lex Luthor.

It's much harder to strive toward Superman's view of us than Lex Luthor's view of us.

And I think that's why you need I mean, I think that's why we have this version of Lex Luthor in this movie.

Because James Gun was so influenced by All Stars Superman.

That's fair.

I do think the All Star Superman version has a bit more nuanced to it though, Like he's certainly purely evil in that book.

But I don't know, there's there is Like it feels like it's a bit cranked up to eleven throughout the whole film, and there aren't enough.

I don't know, and it might just be maybe it's just the framework of it.

Maybe it's the fact that it does feel like because of the way the plot unfolds and I don't understand exactly.

It's like, Okay, so he he's a weapons manufacturer.

I know, you know, I know all this, but like, do people like him, like do people appreciate like are there has am of.

People who signed up for that job to make money and you don't need.

To be well yeah, but like I know that answer already.

That's what I'm saying, Like you know that people would like that guy, you know, yeah.

Yeah, but I don't want to assume that.

I want to, like, I want to see more demonstration of it, and I think I don't.

Know, Like again, you know, if we had a three hour movie, maybe.

Well yeah, exactly that That's what I'm like, you.

Do have a demonstration of that through Michael ian Black and Peacemaker in this film.

It's fair.

Yeah, that's a good point.

And I do agree that All Star Superman has more nuanced because All Star Superman is Alstar Superman.

Yeah, and I like again, I think Nicholas Holt is great and I do love like it is.

It's like, well, you know, pick one, Sean, like, do you want the three hour movie or do you appreciate that it's.

A two hour movie?

Do you want like evil manic lex Luthor?

I don't even just awful Sean's fighting with himself of this podcast.

I love it, but like I that's the thing.

And so it's like, uh, give or take, And my feeling is kind of like I wish I had had a little bit more understanding of what Luther's function in the world was versus just like, let me say, and after this he plays he plays a video game that he uses to beat up Superman.

I bet you he's got some really great electric car business.

You know, is probably doing great.

Lexla, Yeah, that's I think, Lela.

Who else we got it?

There's a crypto how do we feel about crypto cryptos?

In the movie, And he's a dog, which immediately I love it.

And a lot of people have been talking about this because I'm like, I'm just like, look, put as much crypto in this movie as possible, and a lot of people have been like, you know, I think he used the right amount.

And yes, I think mine was My fear was it was gonna be used too much because knowing James Gunn's love for animals, I feared it was going to be too much and it was gonna overshadow it is gonna be used as a real crutch.

But again, it was used for a point of context.

It was used for creating Heart because he wasn't a perfect dog.

He was an asshole of a dog, and he still had to like put up with it.

You know, it was a it was or robot Gary right right?

Just use him as little toys is awful.

My buddies, John Mills and Matt Rushing on the six or two Club talked about this and it was a really good point.

I don't remember which one.

Of them brought it up, but it was that Lex has this perfect plan to ruin Superman and to defeat Superman.

But the thing that he hasn't accounted for in this equation is the dog the super dog.

Part of the reason he hasn't accounted for it is because it's not really Clark's dog, It's it's Kara's dog.

So I love that, Like even in the midst of all of this, like we get Crypto the superdog, but it's also like it makes sense that Lex would be like, wait a second, what's the stupid dog?

And why he wouldn't have planned for the dog to show up and eat all his cameras and ruin his carefully laid plans.

I thought that was a very good point, so agreed.

I think Crypto becomes integral to the plot and is used perfectly, not too much, not too little.

Mister terrific.

He's wonderful.

Definitely highlight of the Justice Gang for me.

How did you guys feel?

Yeah, I think Edie Goathigi is like an incredible actor and I'm very glad to see him get a role like this one.

Justice for Darwin serous, and I think it's fantastic that this movie, even though it's pretty darn brisk, finds time to give him one of the best action scenes in the movie.

Yes, the character is extremely strong, Like what's awesome about the Superman movie, because audiences have been trained over the last twenty five years in superhero cinema.

You don't need to explain like what Green Lanterns deal is.

You don't need to explain what hot girls deal is, Like why does mister Terrific have a tea on his face and a jacket with fair Play on his arms and his own name on the back, Like, these are the characters and you don't need like the studio story, you don't need all the exposition.

You'll catch up.

The movie will show you what that ring does on Guy Gardner's hand.

Well.

Also, I also love that, you know, it feels like it Marvel kind of trained us to think of like, oh, if this hero appear, as we know, they're going to get us spin off, and it feels so nice to actually want that again, Like to watch this movie and to see mister Terrific and think like, well, here's a character that could be set up as like his own series or his own film, But to watch it and actually be excited about that prospect again because of the performance, because of the writing, because James Gunn and this team have taken the time to make these characters important and have something to do, and they have personality, and they have things that they bring to the table that make you want to see more of them.

I was just very impressed by that as well, because I feel like it's you know, the MCU has done a lot of wonderful things, but I think because it's gone all over the place and done a lot of really cool superhero stuff, a lot of it can feel common play.

So it was fun to.

Watch a superhero movie that made me feel like, oh, you know what, I do kind of want to see that Jimmy Olsen spin off, and I do kind of want to see if mister Terrific it's his own thing.

I do want to watch lanterns, you know, like that was that's cool too.

Yeah, even if they're not being used for anything in the future.

The thing that I again liked is the ability to use these characters as a service for the plot or.

Like that's I think what's so great about Superman is that these characters feel like supporting characters.

Yes, any other character in any other movie, you know, like they don't feel like they've been shoved into the plot to develop anything else.

No agree, and and and in fact, I mean in that first fight scene with the giant Kaiju.

You know, we we get a sense of what are Superman's you know, maybe not faults, but just the way that he interacts differently or sees the world or you know, the universe or whatever in a different aspect than us mere humans or even humans with these powers and these responsibilities to do something.

What's so important about this interpretation of Superman, and what's so important about Superman in the comics is it's not about having one god like being who then gets one confrontation with an evil godlike being, like it's Superman versus Odd.

It is a universe filled with beings like this.

And if that's the case, what does make Superman super It's not his strength, it's not that he's got a cape and that he flies around.

It's his perspective, right, And it's well, that's the choices that he makes.

That's what this idea is about.

Like, we're all we all have the ability to be Superman.

We all have these gifts, and we choose not to use them.

Yeah, And I think that sequence especially spells it out really nicely because you have everything, all the excitement going on in the midst of all of that Superman.

The thing that is occupying his time is protecting the people who are getting caught in the crossfire.

Like while mister Terrific and Green Lantern and Hawkgirl are beating the crap out of the Kaiju, Superman's the one saying like, hey.

Be careful, like watch it these like you're gonna hurt somebody.

Yeah, And it's.

Also his care for the kaiju exist.

He's like yes, He's like.

We gotta, we gotta, we gotta find a way to you know this, This guy's just misunderstood.

He's nice here to do this and stumbled around, right, he's confused.

We got to help him.

And then you have mister Terrific though, who then is able to go like, come on man.

Yeah right exactly.

Yeah, so you you it's nice to like you have all these superpowered beings, but they each have a distinctive characterization.

So it's like, we know what Superman's function is in this world.

We know why people love him because he loves people and he wants to help them, whereas other heroes are maybe a little bit more dismissive of that.

And part of I think their lesson the lesson that they learned through the film, is that, like, maybe we do need to.

Be more like that.

Ultimately Superman ends up inspiring them to do something a bit more selfless than they would have done before.

What else haven't we touched on?

The score is amazing, of course, I you know.

Like having the John Williams score back in there is so magnificent.

But also it feels like it has a life of its own, Like its yeah, I like something.

I don't like it, like the score of this movie, Like what don't you like about it?

I mean, I obviously I like it because John Williams's score is awesome, and it's kind of fun to extend or branch off of John Williams's score, But I also kind of wish the movie had done its own thing.

Uh.

And if I had one great positive thing to say about Man of Steel, I do think that Hans Zimmer came up with a really great Superman theme in that, and I think there's just opportunity there to create new and this is a movie that doesn't rely a lot on nostalgia, except in that one aspect.

I find it a little distracted.

I don't know, I just think it's like it's it's like the Star Wars theme.

It's like the Bond theme.

It's like it's Superman.

You need it?

Yeah, and I disagree.

I didn't really have a preference either way.

I can see it as a It didn't feel like it was used as a crutch, which was good.

It didn't feel like, oh, we just keep going back to the same motif every single time, and it felt like there was enough.

I feel like, if you're gonna do it, they didn't even lean into it heavy enough, Like I feel like, there's if we're gonna do it, then let's at least have one moment where boom it goes and it never they do.

They do use it a lot, and they use it a lot, but I don't think they use it effectively, Like I don't feel like you get the.

Like are you kidding?

Like the moment there's the shot where after he beats down Ultraman and the camera comes swinging around and he's his eyes are all burnt out and it goes dun du like literally people in the audience applauded and it's literally that song.

Yeah, it's not it does that doesn't don't think it's fine?

You are you are arguing with the the Donner fan of this group.

Oh, I'm well aware.

I've been doing how many goddamn episodes.

I'm just saying, like, if I'm happy with it, there's nobody's allowed to about it.

Okay, Yeah, I'm going to agree to that.

I'll co side on that.

I'll just have I just will take that sound bye and play it after every.

Little thing I say, oh, that is a terrible thing giving those words to the power of an editor.

But is there any any other aspects of the film that we haven't touched on that we should touch on?

Things that worked really really well or didn't work well?

Well, how do you feel about the Ultraman of it all?

You know, the clone Superman business.

I liked it.

Yeah, I liked it, I mean love it.

I kind of like, I think what bummed me out about that is kind of feeling like, oh, that wasn't really surprised because I already knew Ultraman is like a version of Superman.

But it was fun to think, like, oh, that's probably bizarro the way of their portray m he's a clone.

He's stupid, Like don't he's now he's being sucked into a black hole, so he'll probably come back one day as bizarre.

Oh, definitely don't.

I don't think he's bizarre.

I think so like he's dumb.

He's a clone.

He's a dumb clone of Superman.

Like it's it's bizarre.

It's bizarre, and maybe it won't be.

But I think I the only I liked Ultraman, and I think it was fine and it's cool.

I think the only thing that disappointed me about it was that feeling of like, oh that that wasn't really I don't really subvert anything, It just was what it was like.

The surprise was basically what I already not.

Everything has to be a subversion, though, Like the emotional power of it is I think very strong.

And when the mask is off and Clark is looking into himself at this poor wretched thing, this ugly mirror of himself, I think the performance of David krn Sweat on both sides of that mirror is incredible.

It's great, but it's it's also like, you know what it says.

His reaction to it is very like really, like you're that desperate that you created you basically just created.

Like that's in the dialogue, but I don't think it's necessarily in the perform like again, like when it's silent between the two of them, Like, I think there's a lot of hurt there.

Yeah, and that's what I really really like.

Yeah, and again I'll just you know, keep hit over.

I like that it was serviceable to the plot.

There was a reason, you know, how Lex gets into the Fortress of Solitude.

I just I liked it.

Just had a very comic booky feel to it.

I'm sure you didn't, But did you read armand White's New Republic review?

No?

No, I thank god you brought that up, because I've I did not realize he was still writing reviews.

How's you doing?

How shield Army do?

But what I love about like the whole point of his.

Review is his is his Superman review.

Yeah, it's his Superman review, And it opens talking about how the movie emasculates, you know, this American icon by putting him in defeat at the beginning, and like what I love it's like, yeah, but like, the only dude who could defeat Superman is himself.

I think that's the most like alphable thing on the planet.

But he doesn't want to acknowledge that because he doesn't want to spoil anything, and He also says that the sexiest Lois and Clark is Amy Adamson Henry Cavill, which is hilarious.

Man, I'm so glad he's still out there doing this stuff.

But I do.

Yeah, well, it is funny, Like, you know, there's the complaint of like I remember people complaining about like, oh, Superman just gets beat up the whole movie, and I'm like, oh my god, Like I've spent my whole life just listening to people complain that Superman's too powerful and never like nothing can challenge him.

And now the complaint is like, oh he gets beat up too.

I'm like, guys, come on, this is at a certain point you're gonna have to admit, like you don't there's You're not complaining about anything.

There's nothing.

There's nothing to this.

Do We want to talk about a little bit about the weirdness of the cinematic landscape has changed this film as of you know, we're recording this on Thursday, August fourteenth.

It's only been a theaters for a month.

It's about to come to video on demand, which is nuts.

It's been doing relatively well for a post COVID post MCU, even though the MCU is still going.

I guess post MCU peak box office, which has been more muted more.

I think I think it's just important to say post lockdown, post COVID.

Post lockdown, fair enough, fair enough because movie, Yeah, the.

Whole whole landscape has been obliterating.

Yeah, exactly, fair enough.

But like, you know, we used to see, you know, a superhero movie was expected to make a billion dollars and if it didn't, it was a massive failure.

And Superman now is about to hit six hundred million and seen as a massive success, which is great and I'm perfectly fine with that, but it is a weird thing that it's like, all right, the movie is doing relatively well.

It's certainly it's gonna end the year as the highest grossing superhero movie.

But we're jumping right into VOD and I don't know, like what how this relates to Superman.

I think this is maybe just a larger conversation about movies and superhero films in general.

But like, does that feel weird?

Like why is this happening?

And what the.

Reason it's happening is that theatrical system is going away, like it's being destroyed.

It's certainly changing evolving into something that I don't like.

But at the same time, you know, and the film.

Is still in theaters technically you can't.

You'll be able to go see it.

You'll still get trickles of dollars.

They're still gonna get moneies theatrically.

And I think they're even going to bring it back to IMAX.

I just read not too.

Long ago in the UK.

I think in Australia hopefully you s.

But they need, like they need the dollars now of the people who aren't coming to the theater, right and because of COVID, we trained under our audience and because theaters and studios came to this like little window, you know, this forty five day window situation, and now the studios are going to abuse that.

And yeah, well and let's not forget that what Warner Brothers was super like they were the ones that from the get go were like, yeah, I watched Dune on HBO Max right now, totally, totally, totally.

But like that all happened.

And you know, movies are not the monoculture.

Like the monoculture is gone.

You know, everybody watching mash on Friday Night is over and it's been over for a while, you know, so money is now being made in pockets and on YouTube, you know, and TikTok.

The problem is the Dave Portnoy's of the of the world.

If you saw his tweet the other day, this is the Barol guy.

But so he's, uh, let's see, I can bring up right here real quick.

He's talking about he was, he was he heard all the hype about weapons, and so he planned his entire weekend to watch his entire weekend around watching that movie.

And he said, I didn't realize it wasn't available to stream yet, so I went with Sinners instead.

I may be like six months late, blah blah blah, but you're just like you're you're arguing about a movie that's just not readily available to you right here in front of your face on your sofa, Like, get your ass out and go to a movie theater.

That's the problem is because people are just too lazy too.

It's so tribute to say.

They go to the movies now.

Not on Tuesdays.

Tuesdays is a deal, and.

I will feel lucky to have that near you.

You know.

I think people who are proponents of the theatrical experience and like, yes, of course I want movie theater like I love There's nothing.

That beats that experience.

I love it so much.

But at the same time, I've been to the movie theater and had jerks in front of me on their phone the whole.

Time, or like the lights you don't go down?

When I went to see Weapons, the lights wouldn't go down for the first ten minutes of the movie.

Oh no, And that movie is so dark.

And I have you know, it's like at home, it's like, you know, I have a very nice like audio visual setup and it is a ninety inch four K TV for like four hundred dollars.

Wait a second, hook me up with that, because I will ask.

But it is you know, for everyone who is a cinophile and will argue like yeah, that this is the way we must, we must preserve the theatrical movie going experience.

I'm like, absolutely, yes.

At the same time, you're right, like it's it's kind of an evident, and we.

Got to preserve the physical media, right like Aero Video Criterion, and we're going to and they cost sixty dollars a disc now, but you know what those ten of Leu's buying them.

But there is a stronger argument for that now, especially as people have seen how fickle the streaming services are with.

Like what they have available at any mad I can go away.

I took my Sopranos off, but I can't even.

Watch I can't even watch Lois and Clark the New Adventures of Superman, and.

I have to go out and buy the Blu ray.

You're telling me, my god, like the subscription model.

It devalued the single thing, right, Like the book has been devalued, the movie has been devalued, the comic has been devalued.

Dude, it's just twenty twenty five.

Well, this brings me to my next question, which is, like we're getting Supergirl next year and we're you know, six hundred million.

Superman has made six hundred million, and that's a success for Warner Brothers.

It's not like a massive billion dollar success, but it's a success for them.

However, like, do we see Supergirl making that kind of money even six hundred million?

Like, and this is not to downplay that, but like I really do feel like what's going to be seen as a success for that film?

And then ultimately what is that going to lead to?

We already have Peacemaker on streaming on HBO Max and we already have you.

Creature Commandos is different.

It's animated, but it you know, like I'm just kind of like, where is this ultimately going?

Like what is this DCE you going to be?

And how how can we maintain the energy if like a Superman film making six hundred million is a success when like these films still cost like two hundred to three hundred million to make.

Here's my take on all of this.

Make a good movie, and I will go as long as theaters are around, that's like my role.

I'm going to support the theatrical experience.

I don't know if the rest of the world is.

I will advocate for theaters, I will advocate for comic book stores.

But I can only do so much.

And me worrying about like is Warner Brothers gonna make enough billions to make more billion dollar movies like that?

That's on them, all right.

I know movies will continue to exist.

I know art will continue to exist.

I will support it in any way that I can.

But will Supergirl make as much money as Superman?

I don't know, and I really don't care.

I mean, they just need to be more you know it is stupid common sense stuff of just being more financially responsible.

Not gay, because they're going to take out the whole human them all, and it's gonna be so.

Cheap to make, just just easy, peasy, write a script prompt, boom hit, inter done, and Zozlov can get his bonuses back up to you know, the multi millions, awaerever.

It's it's pathetic.

Yeah, he's really struggling.

Yeah, but is Lex Luthor believable?

You know?

That's my two cents on Superman twenty five.

Remember, say the state of the industry.

You would watch Terminator two nineteen ninety one.

Sean doesn't remember this because he wasn't born yet.

You'd watch Terminator two, and then you would wait a year and a half and then it would come out on video and you spent all summer mow and lawns so you can buy one hundred dollars VHS tape.

Yeah, yeah, you're saying you missed those days.

I certainly do.

I certainly fair enough, fair enough?

So what what is our what is our ratings?

What?

How do we how.

Many Kryptonites on this kryptonite spectrum?

How many metamorpho kryptonite hands.

How many metamorpho floating heads?

We didn't even talk about metamorphos.

Oh, we got to talk about metamorpho metamorphos.

Great, he's great.

I love him.

He's great.

How many floating how many squiggly guys?

Squiggly Man's how many squiggly men would you give Superman?

James Gunn Superman?

Brad?

I love this movie again, especially after the second watch.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy.

I'm giving four squiggly men.

Aaron, how about you?

I'm I'm right there with Brad.

It it receives four squiggly man I can't wait to watch it again.

And uh it is it is one of those movies, even though it's I don't know if it's it's a depth of like other movies that like kind of stick with me.

But there's just like a sincere uh levity to it that I really just like going back to, Like, even if it's just putting it on the background, there's there's something that's warm about it, and so I can't wait to get all comfy with it again.

So for Squiggly whatever's we're doing.

Guess what it's the It's the hand Holding Club.

Hold franchise.

Boys.

It doesn't happen often, but it sure.

Is special Superman for Squiggly Men.

For James Guns Supermo.

Let's get into this ranking.

The franchise we.

Did, we did?

Did we do?

Our franchise did?

But now we got to do it again?

Do we do it again with let's.

See putting this one?

Yeah?

Where do you just say?

Where you're putting Superman?

The Brad's committed?

All right, We're doing that, Brad, Brad, Brad.

Brad just wants to He just wants an excuse to remind the world that he ranks three and four higher than Superman two.

Yeah.

I don't need to do it again.

You just did it for me.

Thank you.

I my my favorite.

It's the Donner film.

But this is, uh, this goes right in second place for me.

James Gunn's Superman number two.

Yeah, same same.

Okay, Aaron, how about you?

I'm maybe it's recency bias, maybe it's other things.

This Superman twenty twenty five is number one in my books.

Okay, I take it back.

I'm with Aaron.

Now that I have support, I have support by my side, I am going to it.

He's cowing, Brad, is cowering behind me as he stares in the in the.

Show Similitude made it happen.

Well, this is this is great.

So that's it.

We've done the Superman franchise.

Where are we gonna go?

Where the franchise?

Boy is gonna go next?

Predator's right, we've done that.

We did that already.

We've done that.

Yes, we did that, we did that.

But there's a new one.

I can remember because we've got Killer of Killers, and we've got bad Lands, and we've got to incorporate into our Predator franchise ranking.

And now we have to watch all of Alien Earth.

Guys.

You watch if you watch the first two episodes of that, I've watched.

I love Noah, God, it's so good.

Noah Holly is the best Legion was like one of never watched it.

Season one at the very least.

Is you got to watch watch season one.

You'll you'll perfect.

So we will, well, we'll discuss, we'll we'll discuss offline, and we'll get back to you, Brad.

If the good people at home want to find you out there on the internet, where can they find you?

My wife Lisa and I do a comic book podcast where we talked to rad comic book people about rad comic books called Comic Book Couples Counseling.

You can find that podcast on Comic Book Couples Counseling dot com.

We've talked to a lot of really cool Superman related creators Dan Jurgens, Dan slot Mark Wade, Grant Morrison.

Uh go check out all of those episodes if you want to continue the celebrating Superman series and take a side quest year it's.

The year of Superman.

As far as I'm concerned, Aaron, where can people find you?

Very rarely but occasionally popping up on the social media is at a cool hand fluke Uh mostly I I will return to Letterbox after like a month and push some reviews on there.

I did.

I did like your review while we were recording.

I thank you, thank you.

It fills my little up.

It's about my phone's about double up.

He does this every time in the morning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, when I when I've forgotten to plug my phone in and then I find it's dead in the morning.

That's great.

And I am at yea Seon Doorman on Twitter, Sean Doormano five on Letterbox, and.

Seon Doorman on Instagram.

You can find me here on Missing Frames, not so much missing framing, but definitely celebrating Superman.

Right now, do you think you have any Missing Frame audience left?

I really don't know.

I really don't know.

That's a great question.

Well, what's gonna be really interesting is when I go back to doing Missing Frames episodes more regularly and the celebrating Superman starts to calm down a little bit.

That'll be the truth.

What happened to my Superman podcast?

Yeah, exactly.

They're not gonna know what to do with themselves, but you know what, you have plenty of episodes to go listen to, plenty of amazing conversations with some of my favorite writers like Mark Wade and Philip Kennedy, Johnson, Dan Jurgens, Tom King, just some of the best Superman people out there.

I talked to Ma Kent herself, Neva House.

She's amazing.

What a lovely, lovely human being, and just very very grateful for all the Superman love that has been on the podcast, and grateful to you guys for hanging out as always celebrating Superman and franchise, boising it up it is.

It's always always a pleasure

Now let's watch all the Godzilla films again