[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Sarah, and I'm Megan.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're two women in our 40s who live in different states and have a lot of different interests between us.

[SPEAKER_01]: On this show, we talk about all the midlife lady leisure pursuits we're enjoying at this stage of life, like travel, hobbies, food, wellness, style, and more.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am excited today to talk about tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something I have taken from a mere beverage to a bit of an obsession.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now the world's most leisurely side hustle.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want leisurely side hustle to become like a regular phrase.

[SPEAKER_01]: Today's episode is brought to you by our exclusive season sponsor and a long-time partner of ours, Vionic Shoes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Vionics are the perfect combo of stylish and super comfortable and really help keep us moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: Use the promo code midlife at Vionic Shoes.com for 15% off when you log into your account.

[SPEAKER_01]: And be sure to check out the special page we've set up where you can see our favorite Vionic Styles.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can look for that in the show notes for this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thanks to Vionic for sponsoring this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now let's dive right into spilling the tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I want to set the stage a little bit because Sarah, I feel like I'll probably talk a bit more than you in this episode, which is totally fine by me.

[SPEAKER_01]: You are the expert.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, something like that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to set the stage quickly, just by talking about [SPEAKER_00]: My history with tea and kind of where I am now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like many people, I started off drinking what I think of as church basement tea as a little kid.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like during coffee hour, my mom would let me have tea, but it was always like lipped in or off-brand, like generic lipped in, mostly just milk and sugar and an excuse to have something in a coffee cup that wasn't coffee.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always liked tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think because of those associations and because I never got into coffee which is a big one I think if I'd gotten into coffee I might have gotten in a different direction, but I never did and then in my 20s I had a really bad soda addiction.

[SPEAKER_00]: I drank [SPEAKER_00]: multiple 20-ounce bottles of Mountain Dew a day for probably three years.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like it got to where I didn't even want it anymore, but I would just drink it because that sugar and caffeine combo I would feel awful if I didn't have it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a really bad spiral I was in and I switched to tea and Really never looked back and once I sort of adjusted [SPEAKER_00]: Like I added a lot of sugar at first with them backed off and once I adjusted to that I never really went back to soda.

[SPEAKER_00]: I you know, I'll have a coke every now and then like really infrequently Right, but it's just tea is my caffeine.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's my comfort drink.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's my daytime Pick me up.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's now become my nighttime.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why me down?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's every time [SPEAKER_00]: But even though I was drinking it pretty habitually all through my late 20s and into my 30s and, you know, right up to 40, I didn't really understand much about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was really just relying on the same like basically English breakfast, whatever I could get at the grocery store for at least 15 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then in my late 30s, maybe early 40s, I had a few experiences with really good tea where I went to [SPEAKER_00]: A.T.

House or a.T.

Room or a restaurant that did a really good job with T, which is pretty rare.

[SPEAKER_00]: I find, and it really opened my eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then in the last couple of years, I just took it further.

[SPEAKER_00]: I opened a little T shop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I opened a second location of that T shop.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going through a T-Smallier certification program, which I didn't know was a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about halfway done, and just through this experience, like I've been working on this for the last five months, maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am learning so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really gone from [SPEAKER_00]: something that was just kind of a mindless beverage to like, yeah, truly like becoming something that really powered powered my day to now being something that I could build a career around if I wanted to and I'm kind of figuring out how I may might do that actually.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I've obviously had a kind of a side car seat to this transformation and there's so much that's [SPEAKER_01]: like the epitome of midlife lady, leisure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in a really cool way, like something that just sparked interest that to learning more to like creating a business around it, creating content around it, learning more, like doing this Somalia program, I just, I really admire it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really, really cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny, I am a coffee drinker for my caffeine.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a very casual tead drinker during the cooler months, but I could also go months without a cup of tea and not notice.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I am here as the non-expert, and really the non-enthusiast, or the neutral enthusiast, but I think it's so cool what you've been doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll be mostly asking the questions today.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to start with this one, like, what do you wish more people knew about tea?

[SPEAKER_01]: If there's more people like me who, if not for my friendship with you, would not have given to you a second thought.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you wish those people knew?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think a lot of people have an idea that they don't like tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I...

[SPEAKER_00]: it might just be that you don't like tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's very possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: But tea is a huge category, and there's a lot of different offerings within tea, but most of what you've probably been exposed to if you're like most people in the United States especially, you're probably haven't really had good stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even the more expensive cup of tea at your favorite coffee shop, [SPEAKER_00]: is likely to not be great quality or not to have been prepared correctly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of coffee shops.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I got to the point where I think probably for me the first real step into taking T-seriously was when I stopped ordering it when I went out because I was constantly disappointed by it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I would be like, I could do better at home why am I paying three bucks for this cup of tea [SPEAKER_00]: isn't good, or it's oversteeped, or it's understeeped, or the water temperature was wrong, or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're starting with a not so hot product, it's not going to taste great, and you're probably going to think, you don't like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think a lot of people don't really understand the breadth of options in tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very similar to wine in that the flavor is impacted by the region it's grown in.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's picked how it's handled after picking how it's treated, you know, well, it's in the package like how it's prepared for you There's so many things that happen between from bush to cup, you know that you You don't really realize that you could have so many different experiences with tea until you have like one really good experience with tea [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I wish people knew, that maybe you just haven't, like, maybe it just hasn't been put in front of you yet in that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what do you think surprises people when they do start learning more about tea?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like what have we, what have, what's been here all the long that we just don't know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there is, like one plant, um, the Camelias and it's this plant [SPEAKER_00]: It's one plant, but that is what you would get all the different varieties of troutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's white tea, green tea, yellow tea, which is pretty uncommon.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really see that very often.

[SPEAKER_00]: Green, oolong, and then there's two different kinds of black tea, a fermented black tea and just a regular black tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's six different varieties, but they all come from the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: bush and the only difference is the way they are processed after flanking.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're either oxidized or they're not, or maybe they're more oxidized or less oxidized.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's that's like [SPEAKER_00]: those six types of tea multiplied by the different areas where they're being raised and harvested and all of that adds up to many, many, many different kinds to try.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the middle of this small A program and I think I sent you a text yesterday or no, I guess it was today this morning that I sampled, I think, 36 cups of tea yesterday and then couldn't fall asleep to like midnight.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was worth it because it was great.

[SPEAKER_00]: But all of those teas have a slightly different characteristic or quality, and they're all coming from one plant.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think a lot of people know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have at all, except for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually, I impressed Brian with this very fact when we were in Vancouver, Canada recently, where there's a lot of British influence.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was very much tea drinking weather.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I happened to roll out this.

[SPEAKER_00]: fact for him and he was going to fall on the ground and say, what, what, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, someone who is not even less about tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, yeah, that's not surprising.

[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I think that surprises people when they learn this is that herbal teas technically aren't teas, so like a cam of milk tea, technically it's not a tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you want to really start splitting hairs, [SPEAKER_00]: I can get a little tangled up in this because like tea, true tea, chameleacinence, this tea, and these are like industry terms, and of course the industry is protective of what they consider to be true tea, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: However, people have been putting plants and roots and things into hot water, into hot water and calling it tea for a very, very long time, and at what point, [SPEAKER_00]: does it become sort of unhelpful and snobbish to refuse to use the terminology that everybody else has been using for hundreds of years?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I tend to sort of fall in the middle right understand that I don't want to create confusion in the market about what this plant that I think is very special and really does taste very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like a true tea, a chameleacinousist plant has [SPEAKER_00]: Qualities to it that I'm not finding in any herbal teas yeah herbal teas [SPEAKER_00]: are also important, and their own industry, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're their own offering, and maybe serve a little bit of a different purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I tend to kind of, depending on who I'm talking to, I might, what's the word, code shift, a little code switch a little bit, and refer to something as an herbal infusion, an herbal blend, if I'm talking to tea people.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if I'm just talking to normal people who want to talk about tea in my shop, I just say herbal teas.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of where I've landed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so you touched on it at the end, but what it would be would be an herbal infusion.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason it isn't teased because it comes from different plants.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cam Amel is its own plant and rose hips or their own thing and lavender and all the things we...

[SPEAKER_01]: I drink more.

[SPEAKER_01]: uncaffinated infusions, if you will.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm, I'm open to lots of flavors, but I'm usually not looking for more caffeine when I drink tea, so these are, this is the category I'm going toward usually, not always, but usually.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, they're, they're just as valuable, but technically not, not at all from that same plant.

[SPEAKER_00]: right exactly so yeah it kind of depends to you ask but that is something that surprises people they just wouldn't have known that because if they didn't know that there's only one plant that leads to all these different varieties of tea to begin with it might not occur to them that there's a reason why then that one's considered tea and the other one's aren't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah okay so let's talk more about this Somalia process of what have you learned because [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I thought I was knowledgeable, but when I started it, and then I started it was like, I, you had two T-shirts.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know nothing, I know, but like, I knew all these, I knew the different types of T and I knew enough to be able to purchase at retail, like to purchase wholesale products to sell it retail, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: like, yeah, that it doesn't take a lot to be a little more knowledgeable than the average person who knows nothing about tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, you know, it's kind of a low bar.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then I realized, wow, there is this whole world.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I already mentioned the huge variety of teas.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did not realize that even within a tiny little country like Sri Lanka, they have like three or four different black teas.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this just depending on where they're being, like the region where they're being grown.

[SPEAKER_00]: and they all taste different.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the part where I kind of didn't believe it at first.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd look at all these, and I'd prepare all these cups of tea, you know, for my little tasting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd look at this sea of black teas and things.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no, these all taste the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I'm not picking up anything different.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I can tell the difference now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I really can, because that's part of what you learn is how to identify different flavor components that you're picking up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I have an amazing palette or anything, but there's just certain things you start to figure out.

[SPEAKER_00]: The difference between a mouth, feel, and a flavor.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, [SPEAKER_00]: You might think something tastes bitter, but what actually, what you're actually feeling is a stringency in your mouth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I am automatically think of a stringency as bitterness, I might have a negative connotation or negative reaction to a tea without really giving it a chance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like there's a lot that's, I'm learning in my palate is definitely, [SPEAKER_00]: developing and I just think the brain is so interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just think it's so fascinating how we can learn these things that are so sensory.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like tied up with information, but they're also really so embodied in sensory.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that's just fascinating.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I think is so fascinating about tea is its history and it's a relatively short history in the Western world, you know, tea's been in China for thousands of years, but in Europe, really just a few hundred.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's, you know, going back to like the late 1600s, early 1700s.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's not that much time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there have been entire industries, countries made, [SPEAKER_00]: Colonialism, wars, trade wars and other, I mean, literal wars fought over tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's been so much about cultures and history that could be just told through this story.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's perhaps the most interesting part of all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have you found any books or substacks or sources on that piece of it, the kind of cultural historical piece?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the, so the, no, yes, but no, so I found like one or two sub stacks they just weren't quite what I was looking for.

[SPEAKER_00]: I found some very dry podcasts, and some that just get really, really, really into the weeds on like a very specific style of tea or a very specific tea ceremony or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really wanting a slightly wider blend and I think some good books, definitely some good books.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I ever know, and then something on YouTube will cross my path and it'll be like, [SPEAKER_00]: the history of tea and I'll watch it and be like, well, now I kind of already know all this stuff, but if I [SPEAKER_00]: two years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would have been blown away.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, I think I've gotten most of it through books, most of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you some of these.

[SPEAKER_01]: Probably like advanced well past the initial learning stage, but maybe like aren't as interested in, um, PhD dissertation level, uh, narrowing of that lens.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's somewhere in the middle.

[SPEAKER_01]: You need like a really rich and thoughtful, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and because there is, like, you could do a deep dive.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of these podcasts I found was literally about Chinese tea history during, like, one of the Dynasty's, I can't remember, this is a Tang Dynasty or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: That's like real specific and I can dip into that and be like, oh, wow, interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now I'm out now each culture when they adopt tea is going to take on its own interpretation of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a very Chinese way of doing a tea ceremony as for example.

[SPEAKER_00]: which is very different from a Japanese tea ceremony, and it says a lot about each culture.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like to know a little about both of those, but I'm probably not going to become- I mean, I'm not a Buddhist.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to become like a Zen teenaster.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not my path, I guess, that I'm on.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I just don't know yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still kind of figuring it all out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a technical question, and if you don't know the answer, that's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm a coffee drinker, and I'm not an unlimited caffeine person.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I like my caffeine in the morning, and a little more in the afternoon, I can't do it all day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't do it right before bed.

[SPEAKER_01]: What are we talking in terms of like, has compared to your average cup of American coffee when you're brewing these black teas?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did their caffeine amounts very or is it pretty standard and is there a way to compare that to a cup of gel?

[SPEAKER_00]: So yes, I mean, I always want to say it's like, it depends.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hate to say that it does.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think coffee is supposedly roughly like twice as much caffeine.

[SPEAKER_00]: as black tea as black tea white tea is is pretty low in caffeine anything that's a little more like a little less processed or oxidized or so like a white tea is going to be less than a green tea which is going to be less than a new long and so forth [SPEAKER_00]: and you'll have lots and lots less caffeine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that it's nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard people say it's zero and then I've read other things that kind of refute that and say no, but it takes out a lot of the caffeine.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's kind of a DIY D-Caf.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on a second steep, you're gonna get a lot less.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there are, you can purchase D-Caf and A to T's.

[SPEAKER_00]: they've gone through some kind of chemical process to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sort of feel like I'd rather not, you know, I'd rather just either do the little trick or take my chances, but it's not as much as Kev.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not as much as coffee.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even really close.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like you'd really struggle.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you had a serious need for coffee first thing in the morning or else you might get like a headache or something, I think you'd have a hard time winning yourself right to black tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'd probably have to drink several cups [SPEAKER_01]: I think that feels true for me and actually behind my question was almost a desire to drink more black tea and not less and wondering if it was going to like significantly add to my caffeine consumption and I think after hearing you talk it probably not.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like when we were in Canada I had coffee in the morning and then we went out to breakfast and I had a cup of black tea and I was like I don't think this is going to make me feel like as if I had a second cup of coffee and [SPEAKER_01]: to have a little more caffeinated tea and just not worry about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just not worry about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sometimes will have, I will sometimes have four, five, six cups of black tea before lunch.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's because, honestly, I usually am restyping.

[SPEAKER_00]: So by the time I get to the third cup, I mean, how much caffeine's early left.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really good, loose leaf teas can be restyped multiple times for the most part, especially a green or a new longer, a white, they really hold up well to being restyped black.

[SPEAKER_00]: tap out after the second seeping, but not always.

[SPEAKER_00]: It depends a lot on the leaf.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um, yeah, I mean, you can always try it and see, I wouldn't worry that it's going to make you feel terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, that could be absolutely what I'm.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me try.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so.

[SPEAKER_01]: there's so much to tea that is not about the beverage in the mug.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even I kind of even had a sense of this before watching you go through it just from like tea parties as a kid and fancy teas and tea ceremonies.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so how does that fit into your love of tea?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what we call that, but the ritual the experience, the ceremony and the everything but the liquid in the mug.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so [SPEAKER_00]: One thing that really jumped out at me a couple of years ago, when I was sort of playing with this idea, because I've looked at this T-Smollio program over and over for probably the last five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've kind of kept an eye on it, and it never was the right time to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it just was kind of hovering around to me, which when something does that, I feel like, yeah, it means you shouldn't let it go.

[SPEAKER_00]: I kept noticing that when I'd read, [SPEAKER_00]: or even watch something like Downton Abbey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're drinking tea all day, all night.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's served for everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, are you sad?

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a cup of tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you stressed?

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a cup of tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you tired?

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a cup of tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can't sleep?

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a cup of tea.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like cold, little, cold.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cold, warm, everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a cup of tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really started looking into...

[SPEAKER_00]: Sort of what they call the semantics behind that like how does he actually?

[SPEAKER_00]: Engage with your body and there's a lot of reasons for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it truly is something that is both stimulating and Call me at the same time, which I don't think you can necessarily say for a lot of other caffeinated drinks Where there are chemical compounds in it that literally are Sort of smoothing out the rough edges of a caffeine spike [SPEAKER_00]: and also having a calming influence on your body.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it truly is like, it is like, plant medicine in a way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's that part of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is the, there's the truly like the chemical compounds in T, R unique.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's the thing that is true, I think of all hot beverages that you drink slowly and this could imply to your coffee and your herbal teas and things like that as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like there's that sensory connection that you have with the thing that's in the cup.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think [SPEAKER_00]: Coffee has become, and especially the way we drink coffee now, like everyone's walking around with a paper cup of coffee, it feels like all the time, and that to me does not have the same feeling as sitting down with a mug of something and smelling it, you know, and wrapping your hands around it and sitting quietly and drinking it, really, really different or drinking it with a friend over a conversation like, [SPEAKER_00]: that's so different than this drive-through Starbucks thing that we've devolved into, which I honestly just find, I mean, not to get weird and on a high whole year, how people caffeinate, I actually find the drive-through coffee thing really sad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like, they really know how to describe it, except that when I started my [SPEAKER_00]: When I started my little t-shop, people kept saying, are you going to have it to go?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, will I be able to come and get it to go?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going to tell someone, no, you can't take this in a paper cup and leave.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not what I want to do because I just think then what's the point?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, are we even enjoying these things that we're putting in our bodies?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or are we literally, we just need them to survive?

[SPEAKER_00]: From one moment to the next.

[SPEAKER_00]: So much that we're willing to spend six or seven dollars for something that's mostly sugar and caffeine.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just there's something about it to me that just it's it's like so emblematic of American culture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just find it kind of sad.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll I'll pile on to that and agree with you as a coffee drinker.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also sometimes am a little baffled that some that [SPEAKER_01]: people aren't making their beverage at home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me, it's so much a part of the process to make it at home.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually don't want to go out for coffee.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will meet a friend for coffee and have probably an herbal tea or a snack, but I don't like drinking out of a paper cup.

[SPEAKER_01]: the extra cost and hassle to me, I sometimes want to say like you know this is really easy to brew just a not a fancy you don't need a big espresso machine like you don't need and it's like you push a button we're not getting like we're not getting ritualistic in the making of coffee it can be very [SPEAKER_01]: perfunctory and yet save you money and have a real mug and like you said sit under your blanket with your cat so to me that's just far more preferable of experience even on the days where I'm just trying to caffeinate even if I'm not like meditating and journaling I'm right it doesn't have to be that you know I I used to [SPEAKER_00]: wonder what people were talking, but there'd be all these things about team meditation and tea, you know, tea ritual.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, all does that mean like I have to chant or something?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does it mean I have to have some spiritual belief around it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it am I pretending?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it like cosplay?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I read about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, it's literally just slowing down and making a cup, mindfully, and drinking it slowly.

[SPEAKER_00]: But even if all you're doing is drinking it slowly in a cozy corner of your house or whatever, [SPEAKER_00]: You're not even if you're not putting all that time into the making of it, it still can be a 30-second ritual that you have.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think we can do that when we've got one hand on the steering wheel and we're trying to get out of the parking lot without running into the side of the building.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I don't just, it feels, it's not to judge anybody's like, [SPEAKER_01]: or delivery delivery, you know what it means delivery.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not that it's more like there's a whole industry that has popped up around us not taking any time for ourselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good point and and now as we're talking about this I'm realizing like I really enjoy eating out at restaurants I really enjoy the experience of it and I like the novelty I like the relationship with the server and the menu So for me that is actually worth all these things we've been talking about and we don't I don't do it all the time I just don't feel the same way about my hot beverages So maybe for someone else they that is actually that is part of the [SPEAKER_00]: Joy of the experience and you and I are just on a different we're on a different team on that one But isn't it the difference between going out and sitting down at a restaurant and interacting with the waiter or Going through the McDonald's drive-through.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm talking about I am literally talking about you're right drive-through coffee I'm not talking about you're going to a coffee shop, which I've yeah problem with I like to house as I you know [SPEAKER_00]: own a team business.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want people to come in and sit and talk to me about tea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I hear right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, sometimes you're traveling, sometimes you're really too busy, like sometimes that is what you've got.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like I have a problem with the fact that people want.

[SPEAKER_00]: to do that sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more like the number of drive-through places bumps me out.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I think, really the big part of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes I'll talk to people about switching from tea bags to loosely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's lots of reasons I would advocate for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest reason being quality and cost.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can get a much better tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: for a lot less money, if you switch to loose leaf.

[SPEAKER_00]: But people will say, I don't have time for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be like, it's honestly no more time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't take any more.

[SPEAKER_00]: It maybe takes to scoop the leaves out and put them in a strainer.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have the strainer.

[SPEAKER_00]: But once you've got it, it's not a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're so convenience oriented.

[SPEAKER_00]: above all else and we, we don't give ourselves any credit for being able to take, you know, to do something that's even a little bit hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just, that's the other thing that I get, like, not frustrated at people.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, I have my things, too, that I tell myself I don't have time for.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't we?

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't the time for us?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it our time hours?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the part I want to push back on.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting, it's like subversive.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're getting radical over here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you told me yesterday in, in real time, in real life that you just passed level four, I think of your T Somalia.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about halfway done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so where are you and then when you are done, what will it actually qualify you to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: You will be a T semalliae at some point in the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've got about, so there's 11 courses total.

[SPEAKER_00]: Eight of them are in T and three are like herbal infusions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: I've now passed two of the, well, I still have to do the final presentation, but I'm almost passed in all past.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've now passed two of the herbal classes and four of the T classes, so now I've got five left to do, so I'm a little more than halfway down, half past six.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then at the very, very end, you have to sit for an exam, which is very scary to me, because I think you have to like, I think you have to be in front of a panel or something, and you have to taste like in front of people, and that's scary.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's down the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll probably, I'm kind of buzzing through these about one per month ish now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think by spring, you know, by like May, I could be ready to finish.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what that qualifies me to do is a really interesting question, because kind of like anything and nothing, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the certification feels to me just like the beginning, because there's lots of people who work in T, who have no certifications and hold no, they're just really good at what they do, either they, [SPEAKER_00]: worked up their way up maybe in food service and started a tea program at a high-end restaurant and then took the show on the road and now that's what they do or maybe there maybe they started their own small supply and company and they travel around the world and go to tea farms or maybe there.

[SPEAKER_00]: uh...

maybe they're buyers for a big house you know there's lots of different entry points uh...

there are people who taste literally are just tasteers they they work for big companies and they taste hundreds of cups of tea of tea per day because what they're tasting for is oftentimes would be [SPEAKER_00]: What's the consistency?

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say your company like Bigelotier, twining, is there, you know, Lipton, you really need every bag to taste the same forever and ever amen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, T is a crop, which means there's a lot of a riety in the crop you get in the harvest.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then their job becomes, well, what do we blend?

[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit of this and a little bit of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do we to make it to make the end result more consistent?

[SPEAKER_00]: What people are used to?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is not something I want to do, but I think it's fascinating that that's a thing someone could do.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, theoretically, this certification would qualify me to seek employee in any of those fields.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd still have to start at the bottom of work my way up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's just how this works.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't actually think that's probably what I'll do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think for me it's more like, [SPEAKER_00]: I'm already really enjoying having the small business, I'm really enjoying learning more about blending, learning more about the business side of things, supply chains all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of boring, but you have to kind of understand it, how tariffs impact things, things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me, it's probably going to fall somewhere between the things I'm already that I already do and [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of coming up against.

[SPEAKER_00]: this in real life experience, whether that's consulting for being more like on the brand consulting side, maybe helping restaurants and hotels, the kind of like boutique hotels I'm thinking, get a good tea program off the ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could see myself doing something like that, really enjoying that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It really bumps me out when I go to a good restaurant or a fancy hotel and the tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: situations bad like you've done with me Sarah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know how bummed out I get.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's real sad to me like this is that why I travel with my own tea and my own tea steeper.

[SPEAKER_00]: I travel with only now because it's so hitter miss and places that you would think otherwise have great service are not good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Got their tea especially you know the United States.

[SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: That's someplace where I see a need, but I'm such a independent worker.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really see myself going and working for a big company, but I could see myself consulting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of what, you know, that's where my mind goes now, but I don't really know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll see as I wrap this program up, I know some of the coursework later in the program leans more on the business building side of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also corporate events.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'd be really fun to go into like, [SPEAKER_00]: corporation and teach employees how to, you know, how to do a T meditation or kind of my yoga background kind of, um, that's up against that nicely too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm playing around right now and figuring out many different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, [SPEAKER_01]: have one more technical question that just popped into my head, this is self-surfing because it's my own tea collection.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a general rule of thumb for how long loose leaf tea?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say it's in one of those cute tins with a lid on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of shelf life are we talking?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have heard one to two years, sometimes I will purchase like so because I buy a lot of tea wholesale and it will come to me with a best buy date that's like three or four years out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, wow, that just seems like a long time because it is a product that breaks down.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if it's completely sealed, it's not being left open, it's not in the sun.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't want to be storing it like glass jars for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do store mine in glass jars because it's pretty, but that's because I'm going through it at a really fast rate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Storage means makes a lot of difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want it to be damp.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want it to be, yeah, you don't want air.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want damp and you don't want light.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you can keep it really pretty tucked away and out of the air and out of the light, then you're probably good with two years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's helpful.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was just thinking that for this winter, like the last couple of years, as you know, I've wanted to set up like a little cozy tea bar in our house, like a stir of yourself, lots of different kinds.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm almost thinking this winter and the primary tea drinker in the house finally, like, it's a little bit of tea or if a friend comes over.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost thinking I wanna get fewer options and kind of refresh my supply throughout some old, [SPEAKER_01]: And then just like, yeah, have fewer options.

[SPEAKER_01]: On the few cold day, chilly days, we've had so far.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've just reached for my favorite like fall herbal blend.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's from Trader Joe's in a bag, so don't hate me.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, and actually the familiarity has been nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I'm gonna rather than go for a lot of variety and what am I in the mood for today.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm just gonna have a few, maybe like a black tea option [SPEAKER_01]: herbal infusions, and then those will be my flavors of the season.

[SPEAKER_00]: If it were me, what I would do is I would have a couple of, if you're going to do loose leaf now, if you're not, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just going to talk you through.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do loose leaf, but I do still have some bags around.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would have like a couple of little tins.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would have scoops laid out with each tins.

[SPEAKER_00]: So each tins has its own little scoop.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I would have your little row of mugs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Each of them have like a little infuser in it with a little lid or a saucer.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got the whole thing right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, like I'm picturing like three or four.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a couple that are truly seasonal and then a couple that are more just like, [SPEAKER_00]: evergreen as they say and rotate out the seasonals.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can buy tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a quality tea shop near you or even if you just order online, you can order stuff in small quantities.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like you're committing for, yeah, yeah, like good to answer your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what's next for Bevy?

[SPEAKER_01]: You have Bevy, which is your tea company.

[SPEAKER_01]: It has two brick and quarter shops plus them online content, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So what's next?

[SPEAKER_00]: So what I've really been toying with now is how to kind of bring the T stuff more into the content I'm creating currently on Substack.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did just launch a YouTube channel where I definitely want to be doing T-related content.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we can link to that in the show notes.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I think I'm kind of wanting to do, I've got the retail shop that's in our family's market, and that's fine, that's going great, and I'm not there enough to really be super hands-on with that, so retail tins, that's all great.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the one that I'm here that is in this yoga studio, what I'm realizing people really want is experiences, and yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: education.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm toying with what that can look like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm now doing something where I'm offering custom blends and this has been really fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing these long distance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll also include a link to a place where you can check that out if you're interested.

[SPEAKER_00]: You fill out a questionnaire and tell me all of your [SPEAKER_00]: Preferences, like what kind of tea you like, what you don't like, what ingredients you're into, do you like caffeine, no caffeine, all of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you want to incorporate tea into your life?

[SPEAKER_00]: I take the questionnaire and then I come up with two different recipes that I then send you in the mail and then we do a Zoom call and taste them together and then we talk about what you're tasting.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's so cool and I send like a little I'm calling it like a little T-story so you get like you get Basically a little sheet about your tea and what's in it and what tastes and flavors you might notice And the health benefits and all that kind of stuff and that has been so fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like all of the things It's like yeah, it's like I'm playing a little bit of mad scientist and concocting teas and things like that And then also I'm getting to do the content and the storytelling and [SPEAKER_00]: And then also I'm getting to talk to someone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll call and connect people and yeah, I love that kind of bringing together all the things I love in one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll link to that in the show notes and people can try that out if they want to.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to be a nice little, um, either gift for yourself or yourself and a friend, like a really unique experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: How did it get to you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe I should offer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I should do like small group.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't even really thought about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could all get the same T's and then try them together with me sort of leading you through that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this has been so fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sarah, thank you for asking me all these questions about tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could talk literally all day about this, but just a reminder to everyone that you can find our expanded episode story with photos and links on Substack at midlife ladyleisure pursuits.substack.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also where you will find the special page we have set up with some of our favorite Vionic styles.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk to you soon.