You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gaesy, Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history.

True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupanski.

Good Evening.

The Serial Killer Travel Guide Across America isn't your typical road trip companion.

This darkly fascinating guide is quirky and unconventional, and takes readers on a dark journey through the United States, exploring notorious locations linked to infamy and not so infamous serial killers.

From the shadowy forests of the Pacific Northwest to the sun bleach basements of Suburbia.

Each stop offers true crime devotees an unsettling glimpse into the macabre.

Designed like a nineteen sixty style travel guide, this book offers a coast to coast tour, showcasing select spots and delving into the twisted histories of the perpetrators.

Blending history, psychology, and a hint of Gallows humor, this book is part travel guide and part true crime Encyclopedia.

Whether you're planning a dark tourism, pilgrimage, or just indulging your morbid curiosity from the safety of your home, The serial Killer Travel Guide Across America will take you closer to the truth and the horror than you ever thought possible.

The book they were featuring this evening is The serial Killer's Travel Guide Across America.

You're Coast to Coast Tour of Terror with my special guest author, Johnny Trevazani.

Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for this interview.

Johnny Trevazani, Hi Dan, thanks for the opportunity.

Congratulations on this book, The Serial Killer Travel Gride Across America.

Your Coast to Coast Tour of Terror.

Thanks Am, It's been a It was an interesting book to put together.

I was super excited about when I when I came up with the idea and seeing how it went.

So when I the genesis for the book was if you remember a few years ago when the story of the Long Island serial Killer, you know Rex heremen hit Now.

I'm based around on the East Coast and been up to Long Island a number of times, and I thought I was like wonder where the gil Go Beaches.

I was not familiar with Gilgo Beach, so I just went up on you know, a map to check to see where that was.

And I realized, oh, I've been by that before and I've driven by that before.

And then I thought, wow, it might be an interesting thing to do.

A travel guide put together, like a travel guide from place to place to place throughout the country, hitting as many states as needed.

Now, I looked it up and did some research and found out that there really wasn't anything like it, and I had to give it a go.

And during that process I contacted Brian, who got me my first deal for my first book, which is a serial Killer Quote of the Day, and then we talked about it and he was one.

He thought it was a great idea and you'll just was fully in.

So he helped me significantly throughout the book and we she was our favorite favorite ones to put in the book.

Thought that had really good stories, good places.

And then we of course, like any travel guide, you're going to put not just the location of what we're talking about and of the or where the killers did their duty, did their did their deeds, or where they were born or where there were where many of their kills were located.

But also we put in normal travel guide things like you might while you're in town, you might want to see this place.

So that was the the impetus for the book.

Now you have seventy eight serial killer murder destinations in this book, and you break it up into areas, can you tell us where you started?

What areas started with in what cities, towns or areas that were included.

So we broke it up into into regions.

And the regions were set up like you know a New England region, and you know the southeast and the north northwest and all of throughout the country.

Brooke them which are a collection of different dates.

And if you traverse from New England through the New England States, you'll go top to bottom, and that's sort of the idea was that you go top to bottom, and then when you got down to Florida, then you sort of went over a little bit more west and then went through that area as well.

So there's they're broken up into different regions.

What I found was most people when they get the book, they immediately go to their hometown to see what's close to their hometown, to see if they're if they're listed, So like the Middle East region, and you know the Southeast region, which is a pretty big region, you know, spanning from Kentucky all the way down to Florida, you know.

And then there's a Great Lakes region and the plains, and and when you get into the far West, it starts at Washington or it starts to excusually uh Alaska and then goes to Alulu.

Why we spoke earlier, And like any good serial killer travel obviously the big names are in this book, but you took special pains to include lesser known and very interesting serial killers.

So just give us a list of some of the well known serial killers that you touch on in this travel guide before we talk about some lesser known but very fascinating and interesting, lesser known serial killers.

Right.

That was an editorial decision to include a mix of well known ones like Ramirez and Bundi and Gac and such.

They're all included.

Even things that you know that were you know, the alphabet murders as such, they're all included.

You probably have heard of these things and they've also been probably on Netflix, covered on Netflix in some sort of documentary.

But other ones that are not known.

I found very interesting because why aren't they noted?

Why aren't some of the people like Richard Steves or Stuart Weldon.

Why are these people that are you know, murdered a number of people not as well known.

And I just wanted to I thought that their stories were interesting and I, you know, want to highlight them.

You mentioned Richard Steves from north Berwick, Maine, and his reign of terror was June sixty five to twenty years yeah, eighty five, nineteen eighty five, and you write that north Berwick is about forty miles from Portland, right.

Tell us about Steves.

You say he was born in Waterville, Maine, and when he was five, his father killed himself.

Tell us a little bit about his life growing up and what happened with him murder wise.

You know, he didn't grow up in a stable He didn't really have a stable childhood and you met his you know, father feeling himself.

But he had violent behavior throughout his childhood and he he he talked about that as being that it's stemmed from sexual abuse, but he didn't really give any indications of what the details of that sexual abuse, but he sort of blamed that which would track for serial killers, you know, but he had mental He went in He spent a lot of time in mental institutions over mental hospitals throughout his life.

He you know, he was he was arrested from murdering his neighbor and that's how it was caught.

But you know, he he there's a history of his his problems that should have been caught earlier.

But even you know him going through mental institutions for over well over a decade.

You know, he he murdered six people.

He pretty much more focused in the with one sixty five and sixties.

In nineteen sixty five sixty six, he went on a number of he killed a number of people, but they didn't catch him until nineteen eighty five.

And I'm sorry they caught him later after nineteen eighty five, but his last known victim was in eighty five, which is an odd thing, right, if you think how long it's been out there and how much technology had changed from nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty five.

You wrote about that he had pled guilty by reason of insanity, and so the New Hampshire Supreme Court stopped his trial, you right, and sent Steves to the Concord Mental Hospital and he was released from the hospital in nineteen eighty with a psychiatrist stating that Steves was no longer a threat to society.

Yep.

So then a few years later you read he broke into Bailey Wells home sixty nine year old man and killed him, and he was found guilty and sen sentenced to life in prison.

Right still where he is there now?

I mean, not many people know of Richard Steves.

It's an interesting thing.

It's like a failure of the whole system that he was let out.

But you know, not to take away from Richard Stiege, but it's not unusual that story.

I mean, you could look at Ed Kemper who was released after killing his grandparents what he did.

So the system really wasn't set up across the country.

You know, whether whether or not you're in Maine like Richard Siege, or whether you're in California like Ed Kemper.

Your next stop is on Allenstown, New Hampshire, and an unknown serial killer Terry Rasmussen aka the Chameleon Killer, November seventy eight to June two thousand and two.

And you say that this is about an hour west of North Berwick.

The The state's model was live free or die right.

Many of these stories too.

Many of these serial killers have a history of enlisting in the military.

They do as much as Terry Rasmussen was as well.

Tell us a little bit about this guy's life.

You say, he was married in sixty eight and had four children.

What does he end up doing to his children?

Well, he was pretty abusive to his kids.

He would he was one of those guys that would burn this kids with cigarette butts, you know, I mean he was pretty abusive and I and which is pretty gruesome your own kids.

You know.

After that, he you know, his wife left him and took the kids, you know, which is a very good move.

Were the for the kids?

They were in an abusive relationship with their dad and you know, you often wonder did they would that have?

She probably stopped a cycle there by doing that.

He he settled in like in New Hampshire.

You know, he started to see other people and just got into a really bad habit of hobbies.

Because in seventy eight is when he started killing people near something called Barbrook.

He just went on a killing spree because he killed a number of people.

You know, he was convicted of only one, but he was suspected of five others.

You write about this woman named Merlise Honey Church, and the reason why he is called the chameleon killer is because he's using all these various aliases, so people know him as names like Bob Evans, and you say, Bob Evans started to get into trouble for writing bad shacks and theft.

But this Honey Church argued with her own family, I guess about being involved with this man, and so she defied the family and and stayed with him, and she was never seen again, her or children.

Yep.

Then after that he began dating another woman.

She had a little daughter who's never found.

After that, you know, he used another moniker called Curtis Kimball.

Makes sense, he has the chameleon name.

But she was good at deceiving people and having them trust them to go along with them, which is unfortunate.

Was horrifying is that one of the women that he killed, this Denise Bodine.

She her body was never found.

But you right that he kept the little girl and throughout the eighties he posed as the little girl's father.

So very a story right out of hell.

Yeah, I mean they didn't find the bodies of Honeychurch for a while after that.

It was they were pretty they were killed pretty brutally, I mean, blunt forced to their to their heads.

Yeah, I mean he used another moniker, you know, Larry Vanner.

When he was in California, he also vanished.

I mean he's leaving a trail of bodies behind him as you go from one location to another location.

Now, I don't have him listed for California, and most serial killers don't necessarily stay in the same place, but I just listed.

I listed, you know, very because he was more so associated with that location in New Hampshire.

You also write that you mentioned that he was married in two thousand and one, and that woman was later found buried in cat litter in a crawl space in her home.

That's right.

And now when he was arrested, like many of these people, they either confess.

This person pled guilty sentenced to fifteen years to life.

However, he died at sixty seven years old of lung cancer while he was in prison.

Right, that's true.

You talk about just briefly Israel Keys, and we've covered that on this program.

He is from Essex, Vermont, or at least you place him in there again, another serial killer that traveled extensively, but you have pinned this as destination Essex, Vermont and talking about.

I mean Israel Keys was a pretty prolific killer for a while too.

But I put him there primarily because that's where he started.

You know.

That's and again you have to sort of you know, like he was born in Utah, but it's where he started killing.

You know, he killed all the covery but in Essex, you know, that's when he broke into the house of the courriers and tied them up and killed Bill and raped wife, killed her as well.

So that's why I started in Vermont.

There.

Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages.

Another lesser known sterial killer.

And you take us to Springfield, Massachusetts and a person named Stuart Weldon.

December twenty seventeen to March twenty eighteen.

You write that you could drive an hour west from Boston to Springfield.

Stuart Weldon in nineteen ninety six, at nineteen, he sexually assaulted a girl at gunpoint.

He's convicted a sexual assault after release, arrested on weapons charges and kidnapping.

But you write and this is a very familiar thing in some of these older cases that you write about.

He was sentenced to three years probation at that time.

Yeah, another failure, right.

Yeah.

Now, you say a few years later he had a burglary arrest, sentenced to one year.

Upon release, he moved to Springfield and it continued his life of crime with breaking enter into a liquor store.

He got eighteen months.

Now you take us to May twenty seventh, twenty eighteen.

Police pull them over.

There's a woman in the back seat.

What does this woman in the back seat say to police?

She was kidnapped.

She said she was kidnapped and held capped for her like around a month.

He raped her repeatedly.

Yeah, and he was.

But he was arrested, you know, shortly after that for that obviously, as you would it was a good, good traffic stop on their part.

You say that he was arrested and soon after his mother calls police saying that there was a terrible smell.

To report a terrible smell, people might know what's going on.

What's the terrible smell?

There is rotting corpses that were buried there.

When they started the home, they found that there were bodies of three women there, and which I noted it was rather odd for the mother not to notice that smell before that, because it's pretty odd.

But in one house, she didn't know that he was kidnapping people and bringing them into the same house as kind of bizarre.

And after that he was convicted, he was sentenced to free life terms in prison.

You take us to another lesser known serial killer, Bridgeport, Connecticut, Emmanuel Lowell Webb, the East End Killer nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety three, and you write Bridgeport's just a little place, one hundred and forty five thousand people.

But you take us to a place you said it's very one of the worst areas in Bridgeport called the Hollow.

And April first, nineteen ninety there's a report of a car on fire downtown and upon arrival police find the charred remains of a woman in the back seat and she had been strangled.

Male DNA was found suspected rape.

So Webb's reign of terror continues.

In nineteen ninety two, he rapes this woman, the Mini Sutton, strangled, stabbed and raped.

Then he goes on to Elizabeth Maxine Gandhy and she's found topless in an abandoned building near another woman's body.

This woman is Sheila Etheridge, and her father finds her dead in her apartment.

So this person continues killing.

But then he got caught later because you know, he stole the he killed something.

He killed another woman, Evelyn Cherry, and he stole a car, and that's how they found the car and was able to link them all together.

And very very much these Once he's arrested, he admits to killing this woman, Ethridge, but he says that he accidentally strangled her.

Yeah, he accidentally, that's produced he said, I'm not sure how you accidentally straight he strangle somebody.

But he didn't go overwell because you know, he had a he pled guilty what to involuntary manslaughter, but also voter theft.

But that was a very reduced sentence because he was given a twenty year sentence, and again very very horrifying.

He's paroled after seven years in two thousand and one, right, you're right.

In two thousand and five, he moved back to Connecticut and he's busted for drug possession, violating his parole right, so arrested.

He now has to submit a DNA sample.

What happens in two thousand and six.

Regarding this, they were able to use that DNA sample and match the murders that he went that he killed them, and earlier earlier, back in the nineties, they discovered that they checked in that he web checked into a hospital had cuts on his hands.

The day after that one of them was killed.

You know, he got caught, and he got caught by technology to match the other ones.

So again this is another failure, right of the of the system letting us letting him out.

I mean, you know, technology, I guess can only take you so far.

But because you know, there was a debate in serial killers why you know, they always think about the sixties and seventieses in early eighties as being the heightened time of serial killers, and they think that they don't happen as much now, but they do.

They do.

Like there's no data to support that it's any more back then.

It's just that we about them more because we discovered them.

But you know, you still have reck Hureman like still in modern day knowing you know, there's this investigation.

You know, the the law enforcement are investigating these things right now, and they have DNA, they have cameras.

There's cameras all over the place.

Everybody has them on their on their front door.

But he still gets away with it, primarily because most one of the common traits of serraculas is they're going to go after people that are not going to be on camera near homes.

They're going to go after prostitutes and right drug addicts.

So this is a person that was able to be caught because of DNA.

You say too that he was charged with Gandhi's murder.

He was sentenced to sixty years.

But he's linked you right to fifteen suspected murders and only four murders conclusively.

But you say that some of these totals from even well Es actually for the famous serial killers, there's a question of how many exactly right.

It's a matter of how you can take a look at little who.

It wasn't until you start talking to him that he either they're going to embellish how many they killed, or they're going to actually lead you to their bodies and lead you to where they did it.

I mean through well they suspected of them.

There's a number of people that they suspect more of, but they haven't been able to link it, you know, conclusively, but maybe they will.

They're still trying to close out these a lot of murders, so they might.

This is still relatively new in the you know, it's relatively you know, he was back in you know, twenty seventeen, so you still might find him being associated with more murders as they discover them.

You take us to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on this serial killer murder tour and a Marty Graham eighty six to eighty seven, kill seven and you say this is nestled between New York City and District of Columbia.

And you say that Graham was born in nineteen fifty nine, diagnosed early with mental disorders, lengthy stays in mental facilities.

Tell us what happens in the seventies when he moves out of his parents' place, he enters.

The workforce, you know, he moves out of his parents' house.

He you know, he was able to get a job and move into his own place.

He was known to collect bodies.

That's how the the that's how the when they discovered in his apartment, he was almost like a hoarder.

The smell that was coming from from that place was was awful.

But nineteen ninety eight, around eighty seven, he was he was evicted because the smell was terrible, and then they found out the reason why, because there was you know, there were bodies in there.

They found seven bodies, you say, just strown around rooms.

Yeah, when he was arrested, he still claimed innocence and his defense was, I'm just a horder.

I didn't put those bodies in there.

I didn't see them.

I didn't put them there.

Yeah, you have to go back to his mental illness too, so to sort of explain that, you know, he I had.

There were in Philadelphia.

There are two serial killers that are kind of known for that area.

There's there's also the Franklin or Frankfurt strangler, but there was two known ones and they were around the same time.

So Marty Graham was one and Gary Heidnick was the other, and they were both kind of similar.

Gary Heidnick wanted I don't have him in the book because I thought Marty's was story was a little bit less known than Gary Heidnick, and I wanted to highlight him.

But they were around the same time, and they and in their apartments where they live would not that far.

They were both in North Philadelphia, and in North Philadelphia at that time was a pretty bad place to live.

They didn't make it any better.

Let's put that way.

Let's Jesus as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages.

One of the interesting destinations is a place called Alexandria, Virginia, and you have it as the destination twice, so featuring two lesser known serial killers.

One is Monty Ristle, and I'll just mention it because I just thought this was fascinating.

He kills five in seventy six to seventy seven.

But Monty Wristle was featured in season one, episode four of twenty seventeen Netflix crime drama mind Hunter.

Very very interesting from Alexandria, Virginia.

So because I thought that was very interesting, and why I thought it was interesting for Alexandria is if you've ever been to Alexandria, it's a very quat little city, not that big.

It's quaint as cobblestones.

But to actually have two serial killers from from there was kind of mind blowing to me.

And the one I highlighted.

The other one, his name is Charles Severance.

He has a really unique backstory, like you know, he actually has a degree.

You know, he went he got a degree in uh mechanical engineering.

He stayed in and around Virginia, but he also ran for the mayor of Alexandria, and he and then he also ran and then he ran for congress, you know, in that area.

So I find that very interesting.

And then after shortly after he loses his bid to get into congress was when his murders started.

And he was known as the grudge killer because he as he described it, or as they kind of described it, that he had a grudge with the people that he killed, like a personal vendetta against them, except that were kind of random, but because it was his grudge, but the investigators could not really tie anything together because they were rather random.

And he would show up at their house and kill them and then leave that he would get in and get out pretty quickly.

He would call it a knock talk enter kill, an exit murder.

You say that he began killing in two thousand and three with the wife of the county sheriff, and as you write, she answered the doorbell and he shot her right there.

In twenty thirteen, another person was the city transportation planner and he was gunned down at the front door.

And then twenty fourteen, music teacher Ruth Ann Ledado gun down at her door.

And you say, you right.

This was a manifesto in bullets, a twisted crusade against the what he saw was the corrupt elite.

And the door was his symbol, a barrier between the have and have nots.

And you say, and we could talk about it.

The trial was a carnival of madness.

What was what happened at this trial that it was a carnival of madness.

One thing you should note is if you ever saw a picture of Charles, I didn't describe it in there, but I would in the book, but I would describe it to you now that he kind of looked like Santa Claus if Santa Claus was a crack addict.

He just, you know, he never looked.

He looked like a mad man, total man man.

And so he was just rambling during his trial.

I was talking about conspiracy because that was part of what drove him to go in to try to go into politics.

You know, he wanted to.

He thought, you know, the the quaint little city of Alexandria was you know, a societal decay.

But he just rambled.

They've made things crazy during that whole time in his in his during his trial.

You take us to Richmond, Virginia and another lesser known serial killer, this Timothy Wilson Spencer, the south Side Strangler, kills five eight and nineteen eighty four to nineteen eighty eight.

But what's interesting about him is that he was a Richmond native.

You say, but the first man in history to be convicted via DNA evidence.

Right, yeah, yeah, which is you know, as technology started, like they were able to pinpoint his DNA and set the presidents for future forensic justice, forensic science, every killer is going to leave DNA pretty much.

He was not a known killer.

He was known as the south Side Strangler, killed five people.

You take us to Tulsa, Oklahoma and Nanny Dos kills eleven, nineteen twenty three to October nineteen fifty four, Pulsa, Oklahoma, aka the Lonely Hearts Killer.

Tell us about Nanny Dos.

We should understand there were more than one Lonely Hearts Killer.

But I thought Nanny Ds was interesting.

How they you know, I get that, I do.

We'll go back far.

So obviously this is going back pretty far in history.

She was called the Giggling Granny because she left when they were investigating her.

So she had a fondness, you know, for poison, and she would poison her spouses and her kids, which was kind of bizarre, right, But why they didn't see I mean, she was married a number of times.

She was married four times, and they all died the same way.

You think they would connect the dots, but they didn't.

And I get that she did travel around from a little bit, and back then they didn't have DNA, and they didn't really tie the local municipalities and not talking to an other minnipelities attract these things.

I don't know.

I think a red flag might be, hey, you know you just your husband just died last year, and then you're remarried and that, hey, another one died, and another one died and another one died.

I mean from nineteen fifty two the nineteen fifty four, three of her husbands died.

She was, you know, say greedy.

She wanted the life insurance money.

She killed eleven people now.

You say husbands, two children, a sister or mother, two grandsons, and her mother in law one of her mother in laws, to a total of eleven and when arrested, she confessed freely.

And you right, cheerfully, right, yep.

You take us to Miami, Florida.

You say, there's a lot of serial killers obviously in Florida, but this is the Miami Strangler.

So an unidentified serial killer nine to eleven kills August sixty four to October nineteen seventy And you right that Miami in late in the late eighties was a seething hotbed of cocaine wars, neon excess and bodies washing up in the bay and a shadowy figure was stalking the underbelly of the city.

Tell us about the Miami Strangler.

Right, So if you can put yourself during that time, it was a hotbed of activity.

You know, there are movies about cocaine wars, so there were bodies, you know, washing up, and there were murders because of the turf wars.

But this was going on during the same time.

And they never caught that person killed nine to they it was nine to eleven is what they had.

The differences between the were differences between the murders of the Miami Strangler and the other bodies was these were kind of drifters.

They didn't they're gonna it's going to go well with the serial murder because they're on the outskirts.

You know, he had ligature marks around their throats and so he would strangle them.

Okay, But he had an interesting tell because he would use silk ties and he would leave them behind, and that's how they were tying all together.

You're right though, that some of these people were posed in strange, almost ritualistic ways.

Right, I mean, and other killers do that too, like you know, Danny Rowland did the same thing, but he was or I shouldn't say he They were set up in a specific way to satisfy, you know, their their urges.

He had the two things he would sometimes he would position them in certain configurations and then he would leave a silk tie behind.

And you write about the silk tie.

It was often expensive, sometimes even monogrammed.

You think you would be able to tie that together, right, I mean, but again I guess the police really wasn't.

I mean, silk ties are not going to be normal, especially the ones that he was using, because you can you should be able to figure out from where that was purchased and where it was made and such.

But that wasn't wasn't really very helpful.

You write that despite a full scale manhunt and an investigation, the strangler was never caught.

And you write that some believe he was a former hit man for the cartels who took pleasure in a more personal style of murder.

Yeah.

Never, I mean, that's just what some were saying about it not confirmed.

I include that.

Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages.

You take us to Ashland, Ohio, and Sean Great.

He kills five between two thousand and six and twenty sixteen, and Ashland, Ohio is a suburb of Cleveland, a Cleveland pardon me.

In high school, he assaulted a girlfriend.

Four years in prison.

Once he was released, he began slaughtering women, and it all came down to an end of his reign of terror.

After a woman Great had held hostage for three days managed to call nine to one one while Seawan Great was snoozing right.

To be more specific, I think when he was in high school he was arrested for grabbing his girlfriend's part.

He was arrested later on and then sentenced to four years.

There After he got out of high school, he was sentenced to four years, he bounced someone to he kidnapped somebody, bound them in bed and held him hostage, and they were able to work their way through and call nine one one.

You know, yes, killers have to sleep, but you know what was in you know, you know, he shaved shape's heart shape into the public care of the one victim.

You write that he wrote a news station and said that government assistance was reason for all of the murders.

Can you explain that?

You know, he just said, well that was why he was waiting, a waiting trial, and you know, he wanted to notoriety, so he wrote a news station.

You know, he just said that he didn't like the fact that people were getting government assistants.

You know, it's another conspiracy.

Then he also said later on, was that they were already dead.

You know, he wasn't really you know, he's once they started receiving their monthly check.

So he really didn't like the fact that people were getting you know, government assistants.

Yeah, cleaning up the streets like many of these serial killers claim, right, yeah, right.

And you write that he was sentenced to death and this execution is slated for some time this year twenty twenty five.

That's true.

He is, and we'll see if that actually happens.

You take us to a place called Streamwood, Illinois, and Paul Runge kills eight between June ninety five and March ninety seven.

And this is stream what is about twenty miles away from Aurora, a suburb of Chicago.

And you write that his very first victim.

Actually actually you write that his career started at seventeen.

He kidnapped and raped a fourteen year old girl.

And of course he was paroled in ninety four and married a woman named Charlene.

Now Charlene, there's his first victim was an acquaintance of his wife.

So that's where the story gets very very interesting.

Hit her with a dumbbell, cut her up in the bathtub, and she had gone to visit Charlene, and obviously no one had seen her afterwards.

Very interesting when you talk about that.

A few weeks later, a German shepherd brought something home.

Can you tell us about what this German shepherd brought home?

Yeah, I brought back a leg because you know, he cut up, he cut up the body, and the German shepherd, I guess has a good smell, was able to brought back the other leg in DNA.

They did DNA test on it.

They found out it was a friend, the friend of his wife, Stacy Urbal, So, so that you know she he was she raped, he he raped her as well.

You also talk about that.

After this, it was next was two sisters.

They were seen last July nineteen ninety five when they were offered a house cleaning job by Runges and they were raped and strangled to death.

Right.

He continues in January ninety seventy right, and raped and strangled a thirty year old woman in her home.

Then in February killed a forty year old woman, and.

He also burned that body.

Jirota, He not only raped and strangled, but he also burned that body.

Interesting because that was different from other things that he did.

You're right that he killed a forty year old woman and her ten year old daughter.

He slit their throats, and as you're right, they burned down their house.

Yeah, and then he continues with this raping, strangling and attempting to burn with a forty three year old.

Fighters find her body when they extinguish the fire.

But that's when law enforcement, you say, becomes suspicious, not only of Paul Runch, but also of his wife Charlene.

I mean they searched runs house.

They didn't really find too much.

They found interesting things like a stun gun and stuff, but they didn't find anything that oh sorry, they did find a knife, and you know, because he was a convicted felon before he was convicted of a possession of a weapon.

I mean, he confessed to the five murders, right, and she was granted immunity for her cooperation, which is odd because if you confess for the five member, what does she need immunity for?

Because she was probably implicated in some fashion.

Well, immunity seems to indicate that they didn't have enough physical or material out evidence, enough evidence to convict him readily.

So they offer immunity for her cooperation because obviously no eye witnesses, but also probably a lack of physical evidence.

And so that's the only reason, because you normally don't see immunity, you see a reduced sentence for cooperation.

So there must have been something where.

And she was something.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you say that he was sentenced to death, but later his sentence was united to life.

You take us to Aurora, Illinois, and Bruce Lindall.

He kills twelve or more from seventy six to eighty one, again very much like almost every one of these lesser known criminals and the more famous, more infamous criminals.

In the beginning, it starts with minor criminal charges, even petty crime, but until nineteen seventy five, he rapes a twenty year old girl at gunpoint, but again very similar to many of these other stories, he's not charged, and shortly after he's pulled over by police for a traffic violation, so they find an unconscious woman in the back seat bleeding from her head.

She had been sexually assaulted.

After that, no charges filed.

YEP.

January seventy six, a sixteen year old was raped and strangled.

Three years later the body was found of a nineteen year old was found in the Fox River, missing for a month.

And he's write that June nineteen eighty Lyndall abducted a twenty five year old and took her to his apartment and raped her and then he fell asleep.

What did luckily, what did this woman be able to do?

She was able to escape.

Cops came back and arrested him, and then the woman went missing.

And because of that, the charges were dropped because most of her the case depended on her testimony.

Then they later found her body, that's why she went missing.

Another fail, right.

Well, another fail was releasing him on bail.

Yeah right, I mean released him on bail.

But you write that in April nineteen eighty one, the Lindhall attacks an eighteen year old girl, stabbed or stabbing him twenty eight times, and during the attack, Lindall accidentally stevers his own femeral artery right, causing his own death right.

And you write that DNA has been used to link him to two more murders.

Yes, the phrase cuts bow tways interesting.

You have another very interesting serial killer, Donald Francis Nemachek Gills five seventy four to seventy six, Ogala, Kansas, three hours northwest of Kansas City.

Right, this is nineteen seventy four.

You take us to and there's two women, young women and a three year old daughter in a truck.

What does Francis Donald Nemechek do when he sees these people?

Took out a gun and shot at the retires.

He abducted them and took him to a farmhouse.

I see he you know sexually assaulted the woman, then shot them both.

He left the boy to live.

Bit That boy actually died of hypothermia because he was outside.

You're right.

In summer of nineteen seventy four, Continuing, he rides past a young girl on her bicycle and he exposes himself.

So she says, you stupid bastard, you think you're funny.

So what does he do as a result of this insult?

He regards he kind of didn't like that remark, and put her into her trapped and raper and stab her to death and then left your body near a wheatfield.

You take us to August, he abducts a sixteen year old girl, the last person scene with her, and the Prince linked him to the crime scene.

They searched his camper and he had photos he had taken of the victims' bodies.

Yes, he was charged with five murders, found guilty, sentence to life without parole or pardon me, actually prole eligibility after fifteen years.

You write that he is eligible for parole first first eligibility July twenty twenty seven, when he'll be seventy seven years old.

That's right.

We'll see how that goes.

In a couple of years.

What did you This is the second book and you wrote that you had the serial Quote of the Day is your former book and also with the assistance of Brian Whitney.

Author Brian Whitney tell us about the what you took away from the writing from this entire book project with the Serial Killer Travel Guide across America.

I'm a curious guy.

I don't view myself as an expert on things, but I was curious to see if there is if you can make a try got about this thing, if you can actually travel from one place to another visiting these places, which you can.

But I also found that there is a number of serial killers out there that have never been found.

Like we mentioned, you know, the Miami strangler and such, it's never been found, and I thought that was still very interesting.

So I learned a lot during this process to learn that in Honolulu there was a strangler that was never found.

I mean, that's a beautiful place, but even even in beautiful places, you're going to have horrific experiences.

So it was it was interesting to discover as I went from place to place.

I'm visited a number of these places, but it was also interesting to discover it and learn.

You write in this book that this is a blood slicked map of the American psyche, where the interstates stick together, a quilt of or each patch soaked in different shades of crimson, a state by state descent into the mythos of monsters who walked among us, shopping at the same safeways, pumping gas at the same texacos, smiling through the same PTA meetings.

It's about right.

That's what Seriah killers do right.

Seriah killers are not spree killers.

They're not They're going to be They're going to be people that live in that community that you're probably going to be sitting standing behind in a safeway.

That's what makes them intriguing, and that's what makes it this story that much more compelling.

You're also right.

Let this guide be your roadmap through the underbelly of the American dream, a dream where the picket fences hide crawl spaces and the neighbors never hear the screams because they're too busy watering the lawn.

Read will go deep into the heart of darkness and not bringing a return ticket.

God bless America, she needs it.

I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about the Serial Killer Travel Guide Across America, your Coast to Coast Tour of Terror.

For those people that want to find out more about this book and your other work, can you refer us to a website and any social media you do.

Sure.

I want to thank you for having me on your show.

Thank you.

It was fun.

You can reach me at Johnny Trevisaoni dot com and from there there are my socials on there, but I have Johnny Travisaonnie author, on Facebook and on Instagram.

Thank you very much, Johnny Travesani for coming on and talking about the Serial Killer Travel Guide Across America, your coast to Coast Tour of Terror.

It's been a fascinating interview.

Thank you so much, and you have a great evening and good night.

Thank you, thank you,