Welcome to a summer Quick dip with a difference.

I'm joined by Dr.

Sarah Coope.

Sarah, Yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

Rachel.

Yes, so I'm working with you now as head of training at Wild Monday.

I'm a former GP and an executive coach with a real interesting conflict resolution and burnout prevention as well.

Great to have you with me.

The reason we got Sarah with us on this quick dip is I thought, what do people wanna know over the summer?

And I don't know about you, but when I'm going away on holiday, I just need to know what I'm gonna read.

I'm quite obsessed with books and whether this is reading or whether this is audio books, I know a lot of people are really finding that audio books are just really brilliant for them right now, but I love just getting some new ideas and, and stuff to think about.

So we thought we would give a rundown of our top books to read over the summer.

This is a You Are Not a Frog quick dip, a tiny taster of the kinds of things we talk about on our full podcast episodes.

I've chosen today's topic to give you a helpful boost in the time it takes to have a cup of tea so you can return to whatever else you're up to feeling energized and inspired.

For more tools, tips, and insights to help you thrive at work, don't forget to subscribe to You Are Not a Frog wherever you get your podcasts.

I was at a training session.

I did a whole Shapes Toolkit for consultants last week, and at the end somebody came up to me and she, he said, Rachel, if you're gonna recommend just one book, what would it be?

So I've got that recommendation with me.

We've got another few.

Um, in fact, as I'm saying that, I'm thinking of other books I wanna talk about that I haven't even got with me.

But anyway, I've I've got my, I've got my pile.

Um, Sarah, I know you read a lot.

What sort of books do you like to read when you go away and why?

Yeah, I always pack far too many books, but, and then find other books on my Kindle probably while I'm, while I'm away as well.

But I tend to take at least two sort of just easy to read self-development books, often ones I've read before that I just think I wanna go through that again.

I do like a bit of fiction as well, some crime detective novels, but we're not gonna talk about those today.

What about you?

What sort of things do you like to pack?

Rubbish crime.

Rubbish crime fiction.

I'm a big fan of the, uh, St.

Mary's um, Chronicles, which I found about in the medics, uh, book group actually, which could, but I'm not gonna talk about them.

Let's talk about these sort of self-development books because you know, my other half course the self-help books, they're not, they are self-development books and I can genuinely say they've changed my life and this is where I got into all this stuff around, you know, personal efficacy, self-awareness, resilience, all, all that sort of thing.

And books are amazing.

Can I just say there's so much in a book, like you might spend a thousand pounds on someone's course and then you find the book and they've pretty much written it all in the book.

It does take a little bit more effort though, I guess, and that's why maybe some people, people really struggle with it.

A quick tip for people is that all the books we talk, we talk about today, if you are not a big fan of reading and you don't get one with audio books either, you can often find podcasts where the authors have gone on the podcast and pretty much summarize the entire book.

So that's the way I digest a lot of these things is listen to some of the podcasts, hear some new authors think, oh, that's an interesting book, i'll, I'll go and get that.

So I'll listen to them first on the podcast and then I'll, then I'll go and, and buy the book.

It seems like a bit more of a, possible way of doing it.

You're sort of screening it, pre-screening it beforehand.

But, um, yeah.

Sarah, what would be, if, if someone came to you and said, what one book would be helpful for me to read over the summer, what would you be saying?

So I've got a couple of books, I'll show you one of them.

So one is Rediscovered And that's by Catherine Asta that came out earlier this year.

So this book is written for, um, late discovered or late diagnosed women who are autistic or ADHD, but particularly autistic women and it says, and their allies.

So I found it really interesting as a doctor and as a late discovered, um, autistic person myself at the age of 49 last year, uh, to read that and understand it's a bit like someone, well she, she, the Catherine Asta, the author is, um, also late discovered autistic.

And, and so very much as I've read through that, it's really struck me, just, um, my experience understanding that, understanding as a doctor as well as a former GP what I didn't know I didn't know about some of the presentations of autism, particularly in women.

So I think a lot of medics would find that really insightful.

She talks a lot about the research that's been done there, the research that's needed to be done, and also give some really positive, um, advice and strategies for people who either are autistic or train support, supervise, have members of their family, friends who also are, and just ways of, of really understanding the world for them, which, um, yeah, for, for myself was, has been a big, a big learning curve over the last sort of six, nine months.

And what were the aha moments that you thought, God, I wish I'd known that 10 years ago when I was working as a GP?

I think as a, from a GP perspective, it was understanding that some of the physical presentations such as hypermobility, so like EllisDon syndrome, migraine, um, chronic, chronic pelvic pain, recurrent UTIs, uh, polycystic ovarian syndrome.

Some of those conditions are much more common in neurodivergent individuals.

And I never knew that.

And looking at, at your reaction, I'm guessing I didn't know that.

No.

No, and I think it's fairly recent research, um, that's shown that, but I, it just makes so much sense, um, that it's chronic inflammation, chronic stress that is often underlying a lot of those conditions.

And so, so for, for people, especially women who probably have that additional stress of being trained and conditioned to mask so much more from an early stage will often present in those ways also chronic fatigue, other things like that that we've often, as doctors, not always known, and I'm sure there's so much work still to be done, isn't it?

But not, you know, not always known what underlying causes are.

And I'm not saying that for every person with those, those conditions, then it would be neurodivergence as the underlying cause.

I think it's about thinking about that.

Um, I remember when I taught medical students, I'd often say, you know, what else could it be when you think about the differential diagnosis?

So that's just asking that question in order to consider it.

That's interesting because I was thinking, gosh, is that genetically linked?

But no, that makes sense.

That actually it's the stress that comes with, um, that maybe ne being neuro divergent and this masking that people have to do to just like survive in the, the real world, which causes inflammation in the, the cortisol.

I mean, there is that, it's looking like there's a genetic component or has looked like that for quite a long time, I think with, with a lot of neurodivergent conditions and of course the complexity with trauma in early life and, and those things.

But, so that was an aha moment, I think for me as a medic.

And then for me as a, as a late discovered autistic woman who had no idea until a, maybe a year ago, started to wonder.

And then it's just made so much sense, understanding about burnout on repeat, understanding about, um, just masking and the cost that, that, that is for, for people like myself, just how we're able to mask, and it's not about pretending, it's just what we are required to do, often to, to fit in and, and the difference that that can make in terms of just that sensory overload and exhaustion.

So I think that's been very validating and then helping, helping me understand just what autism means in that way.

And also just.

I think we have to deal with people's reactions.

I'm only recently sharing my diagnosis 'cause it takes a little bit of processing myself.

And of course, you know, she talks in the book a lot about people's reactions to herself as a psychologist, sharing her diagnosis and how they'll be the typical response.

Well you don't look autistic or, well you can't be autistic 'cause you make eye contact or you can't be autistic 'cause you empathize.

And just understanding actually that's, you know, that's not true.

there's such a diverse, obviously diverse presentation in so many people and often a lot of autistic people have those as their strengths.

So that's the book for you.

If you maybe think you might be autistic or have ADHD yourself, just to understand yourself a bit more, but also you think all healthcare professionals should probably read it just so that they can spot some of these signs in their patients.

I think so.

And particularly in women because.

Again, the research is showing.

It is, it does present differently, often.

I'm generalizing, but different often in women, especially women of, of my generation, um, just because of some of the conditioning.

So I think it's very interesting to read.

Yeah, and, and worth just checking out for, for discussion.

I think it'd be a great discussion for book to discuss at, say a peer study group or something like that, just to say, oh, what did, what have you learned?

What did you know, not know?

And, uh, what will you do differently?

I love that idea.

You know, so if, if people are lacking a bit of connection once there's bit of CPD to get together in a, a peer book group, um, let us, let us know if you're gonna do that.

Um, so this book is rediscovered by Claire Catherine.

Catherine Asta, ASTA.

So Rediscovered by Catherine Asta.

She has a podcast, um, as well.

Um, and I think it's the same name or the Late Discovered Circle, I think.

Um, but yeah, this, this book is, worth a read.

and we, um.

Hopefully gonna get her on our, our podcast if, if we can.

And just to say that we are going to be thinking about a, a community for doctors with, um, neurodivergence or, or feel that they might have a neurodivergent diagnosis even if they haven't been officially diagnosed.

Um, keep your eyes peel for stuff around that later on in the year.

And, and if that's you, just get in touch with us and let us know.

So what sort of things you do you struggle with and what would you like to hear about on the podcast as well?

Thanks, Sarah, that that book sounds really important.

The book I'm gonna recommend for the essential thing to read over the summer is Essentialism.

Now I can't, uh, I can't remember how many times I have recommended this book to people.

Honestly, I should have shares in this book.

I do not have shares in this book.

But Greg McKeown, if you are listening, please come on the podcast.

Obviously he's listening to You Are Not a Frog.

Um, this book.

Was recommended to me by a coach I was speaking to maybe eight or nine years ago.

I'm not quite sure when it actually came out.

Um, oh, 20, 2014.

Yeah, so it's over 10 years old.

And it, it can be life changing for people.

The strap line is the disciplined pursuit of less.

I like to say, well, it's really about do fewer things, but better.

And it's basically, it's a basically bit of a manual for life.

Um, it talks about what problem do I want.

There's always gonna be a trade off.

Strategy is about making choices, trade offs.

It's about deliberately choosing to be different.

Like you need a strategy for your life.

You cannot keep doing everything.

This was one of the first books that introduced me to the real power of choice, the fact we, we can choose, but often we don't like the choices that we've got, they feel too difficult and it really talks about how to do less, uncommitting to stuff, uh, eliminating stuff, sleeping, protecting your asset, it, it's a bit, bit of a sort of modern day, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

But it, I think the one thing it just instills in me is that we can do anything.

Like, doctors, healthcare professionals are really, really competent, have got a lot of skills, but we cannot do everything.

We cannot do everything.

And as Oliver Burkeman in another book 4,000 Weeks, that's another another huge recommendation as he says, you know, we only have about 4,000 weeks on this planet, give or take.

We are not gonna get to do 99.99999% of everything that there is to do on this planet.

We are gonna have to choose what we spend our one world and precious life doing.

Essentialism really helps with that.

It really helps talk about the impact of just focusing on a few things.

And I remember one of the stories in Essentialism that really struck me was talking about a, a guy who'd just sold his business.

Um, and he wanted to prove that he was still helpful to the company that had bought it 'cause he was still in the business.

And so he made sure he went to every single meeting, he made sure he was still doing lots and lots of things, he was very, very vis visible.

And he went for some coaching.

'cause he just found himself not being very effective at all.

And he thought about, well, how can I improve my visibility?

How can I, how can I have a better impact in this, this new business that's been taken over by this new company?

And the coach spoke to him and said, your problem is you are just spread so thin, you are not having an impact on anything.

And said to this guy, what you need to do is only go to meetings where you are a hundred percent needed.

You are only to do those things that nobody else can do.

Try it for a month or so.

So this guy tried it and his impact shot through the roof.

His enjoyment of work increased.

You know, people were appreciating him again for, for what he was doing.

Now, I know it's hard to translate this over into medicine.

It really, really is, particularly when we have the day job that we've got to do.

We've got all that patient care, that frontline stuff, and then there's a lot the leadership stuff that often happens outside of work.

but I do observe people getting stuck in the urgency trap and what we call the urgency trap.

And quick side note, we, we've got some urgency trap training coming up soon, so if you want to join, we'll put the link in the show notes.

But that's where you're firefighting everything for everybody else.

And so you're not ever getting to your own stuff and it makes you really ineffective and really decreases your, your impact.

And I see when doctors get stuck in the agency trap, they end up doing stuff and they say, oh, I'm so busy and now I'm coaching.

Uh, if I'm coaching people or talking to participants in training, they say, yeah, well, I've gotta do this, that and the other, and I'm thinking about it, I'm going, that is not important.

It it objectively anybody would say to you, you really don't need to do that.

That is not mission critical.

That's not gonna move the needle for your patients or for your depart or anything.

Yet they're still feeling that they ought to do it.

And you lose the ability.

To distinguish what actually is important and what's not.

And I guess amygdala is all tied up in that, you know, making you feel guilty if you're not gonna do everything that everybody wants you to do all the time.

But Essentialism really helps just cut through all the, the chat, all the external stuff and think what is the really important stuff that only I can do?

And let me focus on that and gives you some suggestions for how to focus on that as well.

So that Essentialism by Greg, Greg McKeown has had a massive impact on me.

Strap line, the discipline pursuit of less.

And the power of choice, I think that really stood out from what you've just said, and it's something I've had to apply.

And it sounds like you, you've really taken over from that.

Recognizing we always have a choice.

We just don't always like the choice we have.

And sometimes we forget that we have a choice when it comes down to, oh, I have to do that, I should do that.

And so we often need to step back and go, actually, what would happen if I didn't?

How's that working out for me when I try to do all that, like in the urgency trap?

Yeah.

So who, who might wanna take that in their suitcase on a holiday do you think?

I think anybody who's overwhelmed, anyone who's just thinking, I am on a hamster wheel, I'm running as fast as I can just to stay still, and when I get home I'm exhausted and just go to work and do it all again the next day, and thinking I'm not even doing a good job in the things that I'm, I'm doing.

So, absolutely, if, if, if that's you just start with this book, it's a bit of a mindset shift because we need the mindset shift before we actually can put stuff into action.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Sarah was with some consultants the other day and, um, we were talking about choice and they were really struggling with it because what it turned out was they didn't like the choices that they, that they had.

They wished they had a choice to be working in a, a trust that was wonderful.

That was, you know, really helping them, that that was giving them the choice about how they spent their time.

But, it wasn't like that they were really, really struggling with the system, but there still is choice, you know, even if the only choice you have is whether you stay or go, there is always choice.

Nobody has a gun to your head saying you, you have to.

What people don't like is the consequences of their choices.

You know, the consequences of leaving.

What that means with their family, their income or the consequences of standing up and saying, no, we can't do this, but we'll do this.

Or the consequences of drawing a line in this hand saying, I'm going home now and those patients won't be seen, or, you know, they're gonna have to wait or that, 'cause what if someone thinks badly of me, et cetera, et cetera.

But it's always the consequences.

I talk about this a lot.

It's the consequences of the choices that we, we don't like.

But as Greg McKeown says, again, bring it back to Essentialism, you can't do everything.

You can do anything, but you can't do everything.

And I think that's just the message I'll probably have on my gravestone.

But it's so true, She could do anything.

She could do everything.

It is so true.

I came back to this analogy when I was training last week.

I was talking about the two suitcase sizes, you know, the hand luggage and the hold luggage.

And I was saying, and again, if you had a, a whole big suitcase, you know, the 22 kilogram suitcase.

And I said, no, sorry, you can't take that, you can only take the 10 kilogram suitcase, you would, you'd accept that you couldn't fit the 22 kilograms into that 10 kilogram suitcase.

So I was saying to them in the room, you know, so what would you, how would you decide?

And of course they said, well, we take what we really needed.

What was the priority?

What's just the, you know, for us?

And it, it's the same principle, isn't it?

If you can't take everything on a, on holiday and you could only take a smaller suitcase, what will you choose to take?

And it, and it's the same analogy at work, isn't it?

You can't do everything, so therefore you have to leave some, some things out.

And when it comes down to prioritizing it, sometimes it's hard, isn't it to say, even when it's the things I'd like to do.

I still need to say, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that because I want, I am choosing to do this.

I love that analogy of the suitcase.

It strikes me that we don't see time as finite.

We just think time can stretch.

It can't stretch.

We need to see, we need to see time as, as a possession.

And actually, we know that time is, is, is, is a type of wealth, you know, freedom of time.

Having the time to do something that is wealth.

So actually seeing it as finite possessions of energy that you have or space to do stuff, you, you absolutely can't.

We just think we can fit 10 tasks into half an hour.

We kn when we know we can't, but like, oh no, well I'll just have to do it and then I'll borrow the rest of that from my sleep or whatever.

But actually when you, when you go, when you hit 24 hours, you can't do anything else.

So I quite like that suitcase analogy.

That's, that's really helpful.

The, the, the problem comes when it's like, well, I would like to take this thing, but someone else is telling me I should take that thing.

Who wins out?

Is it me or is it the other person?

But yeah, I think time as a currency is really helpful.

And that's something where the suitcase analogy works well.

'cause it's like a space, isn't it, that you, you can fill and, um, energy the same and attention.

So T, E, A, time, energy, attention, what are you going to fit into the resource you have?

So thinking about time, my next book is this one, Time to Think.

So I recommend this and I think we do, we both do, don't we, on, on a lot of courses, especially when we talk about coaching.

So Time to Think by Nancy Klein.

It might be a book that you have read.

I read it first probably 15, maybe plus years ago, um, when I did a coaching diploma.

Um, it's.

So, so empowering around recognizing the quality of listening.

So as medics, we're often trained, aren't we?

How to actively listen, how to listen deeply, not just to what people are saying, but what else is behind it.

And I think the quote that really stays with me is that the quality of my listening directly impacts the quality of your thinking.

So if I listen well then that will help you to think well, I remember reading Time to Think and it, it did absolutely change my mind.

'Cause she talks about it not just in a, a one-to-one conversation.

And she also talks about thinking time in meetings where you know that if you are given a chance just to talk and no one's gonna interrupt you, it's so much easier.

People actually talk less, they get much less anxious and you know, so it's just creating these thinking environments where people can actually express what they think.

Now, I'm an extrovert, so I need to talk to know what I'm thinking.

Is that the case for you?

No.

So I'm introverted, which means I will process my thoughts internally and then say them when I have got them gathered.

So how's this a thinking time thing work for you then?

So in a meeting at times, sometimes I have in say, a partnership meeting, sometimes I wouldn't have contributed if I thought, well, someone else has covered that point.

However, by not contributing, I then haven't stated it out loud, I guess, where I sit with things.

So I learned to say my thoughts and my opinions, even if someone else had covered it.

I think it means I don't always need, I mean, I do need time sometimes to talk out loud, and I can get a lot of clarity by that, but it does mean sometimes I need almost encouragement or permission to, and that's where the thinking environment that Nancy Klein talks about is so great for those teams where you have a mixture of people who will just talk without, you know, without prompting, and those who will need to be encouraged.

And it, it really indicates to everybody that there'll be time for everyone to, to think and to speak.

And so part of it is chairing skills, I think.

Um, also part of it is encouraging those who perhaps wouldn't necessarily have spoken out loud to have said something.

And also those who, who are external processes to also hear other people's, um, processing and thinking.

So yeah, that's how I think it can work for all, for all preferences.

So it's a really good book, Time to Think.

I would recommend it for anyone who, just wants to have a thinking partnership, you know, talk to somebody and allow the other person to think, and then vice versa, they will allow you to think and it, it really does transform how you approach conversations, doesn't it?

It really does.

And I think even if you think you're good at listening, not you personally, even if, if one thinks I'm not that good at listening, as I've just proven by interrupting you.

Well, this, you know, there's always more to learn, isn't there?

And I'm certainly learning a lot.

It's worth, I think one of the other things that are really worth gaining from the book is her incisive questions.

I use this so much.

I was using it with my adult son the other week, um, and her incisive questions where someone is stuck in their thinking and it helps 'em to get past that.

So it's a coaching question.

I don't wanna spoil it by giving it away, but it helps the person to think past where they're stuck and then come back to, so it opens up choice and freedom again.

Sarah, I am gonna ask you what the incisive question is for those people that don't manage to read it.

What is, what is this very helpful incisive question.

Yeah.

So if, if somebody is stuck, I'm trying to think of an example.

If someone is, is stuck with, um, something thinking, you know, I can't, possibly, I can't possibly do that, or I can't possibly say no, um, maybe that's a good example.

So, you know, I can't possibly say no to my boss about that or, or my team because of what they'll think, the incisive question is, takes you if you could, and if you knew that that was gonna be okay, so it almost takes you to a place of imagining what's possible.

And for that to be all right, then what would you do?

I've used it at times where I've had some anxiety about the future, for example, and I've just thought, okay, if I knew, and this isn't sort of, um, fantasy, but if I knew that, This was gonna be okay almost that, that then what would I use this time for?

So it frees you pass them as often, often those anxious thoughts or other limiting beliefs, and that's the thing.

So it's where someone's got a limiting belief about what they can do, what's possible or what's gonna be possible in, in the, in, in life.

It just helps you to think, okay, what would you then do now?

So it comes back to now, and then gives you that sort of sense of, okay, so what would I do?

And, and that's where you inner wisdom can really Love it.

I think we're gonna use that today.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

So, so that is Time to Think by Nancy Klein and, and an old classic.

I really recommend that one.

Finally the book I'd like to recommend Deeper Mindfulness by Mark Williams and Danny Penman.

Now, so this was, uh, recommended to me by my friend and colleague John C Parkin, who wrote the F it book, so, um, that's something we're gonna be talking about later on in our, um, hot topics podcast with our um, FrogXtra membership.

But John said to me, you've got to read this book.

Now, a lot of you will already know Finding Peace in a Frantic World.

So this is a, an amazing book that that first book is basically the eight week mindfulness based stress reduction course.

And I think there's even some evidence from NICE that it is an evidence based treatment for depression.

It's really fantastic, And they, you can teach that you, you can go and attend a Find New piece In a Frantic World mindfulness based stress reduction course.

You can buy the book.

There's all sorts of meditations that go with it, and I would really, really recommend that.

This is the next step, and in fact, this is another eight week course.

And they say, you don't even need to have done the first course to, to be doing this.

And it builds on the new research that's come out about the way we think and our brains and mindfulness.

And it, it, it's really, really helpful.

I mean, what it talks about is the fact that, I mean, I know, sorry, we talk about what's the story in your head all the time, don't we?

Like, well, what are you thinking?

What story have you made up about that?

What are you assuming?

This book just says that everything is a story in our head.

I am looking at you through a camera right now.

We're on a recording platform called Riverside, but my actual brain is only taking in a tiny bit of the information that I'm seeing.

What the rest of what I'm seeing is, is my brain just filling in the blanks from its memory, from what it knows.

So I know that I've got a couple of lights here, light me up.

I've got a computer screen here, I've got window there.

I'm not actually seeing that.

I'm just, you know, just keeping that there from what I've seen before and I generally only just work out bits that have changed or whatever.

So everything we do in life, what we're smelling, what we're seeing, what we're experiencing is, is our brain generally filling in the gaps.

And we're not taking, we're not really relying on that much actual information that's coming in through our, through our eyes.

And so, what he they're talking about is we, we, we do a lot of stuff on autopilot.

A lot of our thoughts are on autopilot, are assumptions, and even just what we're thinking, feeling, smelling, all that sort of thing.

And how do we get off the autopilot and actually engage in the present moment with the real world?

And so again, it takes you through eight weeks of different meditations to practice this.

And the difference between this and the first course is they are now talking about this thing called vedana, which is your sort of emotional tone.

' Cause I don't know about you, but sometimes I think to myself, oh, I'm feeling a bit rubbish.

I'm feeling a bit, oh, there must be something wrong.

Something's wrong, right?

What is it?

Oh, maybe it's that one of my children has upset me this morning, or something's not going right away.

So then you know your emotional tone's a bit off.

So then you look around for things that are gonna confirm why it's off, and then you, and then it might ruin the rest of the day, and then your thoughts will match up with that.

But actually what this is doing is using the, um, some mindfulness techniques to, to think about to yourself.

Oh.

What is the emotional tone, what's going on there?

And not then necessarily have to do anything about it.

Sort of just identify.

Now I'm not very far into the book, but I think there are some very helpful things that go further on that, you know, John told me about that a lot of the time you, you clock it and you go, no action necessary.

You know, I don't actually need to do anything about that and I think that's gonna be very helpful for me.

So I am, I'm working through, you know, the book and the meditations and, you know, you do five minutes a day meditation, 'cause we know that mindfulness is about practicing, but there's some really useful, really helpful neuroscience.

They talk about the fact that we just exhaust ourselves.

We've just got all this stuff going on and half the time we just don't need to.

And I think this is going to be a, a really good thing for me to do over the summer.

So I just encourage other people to get the book.

There's the, you can then get the free audio meditations that go with it.

They give you the link in the book to get that.

And I think it's gonna be really helpful.

I really like the concept of emotional tone, and a lot of that sounds, it's paying attention to our thoughts, isn't it?

Paying attention to them, but not.

Necessarily engaging them.

And recognizing that, yeah, we've, we, our brains have received so much information, but we filter.

That's what, that's what we do.

And we filter based on past experience, don't we?

What else is going on?

And recognizing how our, our emotional tone can set the filter.

And we have some, we don't have control over all of the filter, but we probably have some control over whether we engage with those thoughts or not.

I think, I think what, what really struck me from this book was that sometimes, you know, I'm feeling a bit pissed off and I'll always blame actual stuff that's happening, but it might just be something that's triggered an unconscious memory of something that happened in the past or whatever.

And actually I just can, I don't need to do anything.

I can just, I can just leave it.

I don't need to change and act on everything, which for me is quite difficult 'cause I'm someone who likes to just like get over the negative emotions, just move into the future and everything has to be fine.

There's that recognition, isn't it?

I've, I've been thinking a lot about, yeah, about heartfulness as well, and maybe we'll talk about that one time, but just recognizing how it, the thoughts affect how we feel.

And I think some of that deeper mindfulness is very much around that, isn't it?

How it affects your, your actual state, your emotional state.

There's lots to go into.

One thing that that get you practicing is using bits of your body to just get you in the present moment.

And I know we've talked about that with the, there's some stuff around PQ intelligence and stuff, but actually just focusing your hands or your feet.

So actually think actually this, that just get into the present moment and ignore that, that brain stuff that I'm just making up and return to now.

And I just think that can be the key to living a much calmer life.

I, I know in a lot of courses we teach ourselves to.

Recognize the stories that we're telling ourselves and then work out what's true, what's actually true and stop the assumptions.

And I think that's really important and can very much help, but sometimes we just need to notice those thoughts and let them go and feel them in your body.

And sometimes there is no action necessary.

We don't actually need to do anything about it.

No, we often need to get out of our heads and much more into our bodies, and that groundedness that's been so helpful for me in many ways, just grounding in those moments, not ruminating absolutely.

So there's four book recommendation recommendations for people over the summer.

We've got Deeper Mindfulness, Essentialism and Sarah, You've Time to Think, and Rediscovered.

So if you are listening to this on the normal You Are Not a Frog podcast feed, go well over the summer.

We've got some great summer episodes, some around wellbeing and some extra stuff.

And um, yeah, I'll see you for more quick dips again in the autumn.

If you are part of our FrogXtra membership, then hop over to your FrogXtra, um, special bonus podcast for July.

and, uh, Sarah and I will be exploring a couple more books in there that, um, I, I really think everybody should be reading.

And that is the F it books with John Parkin and the Boundaries book, the Book of Boundaries and diving a bit deeper into those, because of some of the things that we've been sort of witnessing in people over the past few months in terms of the training that we'll be doing.

So we'll see you over there if you're in the membership.

Everyone else have a great rest of summer and we'll speak soon.

Thanks for being with us, Sarah.

Thank you.