This is Darth Matthew, host of the Star Wars Generations and Superhero Ethics podcast, and I find your lack of membership disturbing.

You can free yourself from the ads of those rebels scum by going to Theethical Panda dot com and clicking joint for five dollars a month, fifty five dollars a year, No more ads, only the episodes.

Just as the Emperor intended, Hello and.

Welcome back to the Star Wars Generations podcast.

Thank you so much for indulging us while we are on our hiatus.

I have now just entered a new I have now just welcomed a new padawan into my household.

It's been pretty awesome.

The little one is six days old and already affecting our sleep schedule and all sorts of wonderful ways.

But we're having a lot of fun, and I'm still finding time to get onto the podcast.

And so I am here with Alex Erin will hopefully be joining us soon to talk about Rogue one after and Or Now.

This was one we played.

It's been a little while since and Or obviously, and we planned to watch it, you know, right after and Or had finished.

Turns out that being a partner to a pregnant person, and being a star photographer at a major newspaper and being a nursing school student.

Are all things that can affect the schedule.

Who knew?

So we are coming to you with a little later that we hoped it's gonna be the kick off the end of our hiatus instead of the last thing for our hiatus.

But here we are.

There's a lot to talk about.

And like I said, what we're talking about is and Or is over, and we wanted to go back and rewatch Rogue one because Rogue one, this show is the prequel to the show to the movie that's a prequel to the main original movies that are themselves prequels sequels to the prequel, and then prequels to the other sequels.

Yeah, I'm not even again into all that.

Hopefully you're laughing along, hopefully not rolling your eyes or changing the changing the channel.

Alex jombinish up yup.

Talk to me when you.

Say everyone when he sat down to watch Rogue one again after and Or, what what were you thinking as you went into it?

Yeah, it took me like a week after and Or because I was just so busy, But Uh.

I mean, I always loved Rogue One as a film Stan.

I thought it was one of the best movies to come out of Disney, maybe the best Star Wars movie come out of Disney.

But and Or just really enhances so much for it because you know, when you first watch Rogue one, you know, Cassa Andor, while being a very compelling character very much is like, you know, the secondary character to jin or So.

And you know, while.

Still being that his like background, knowing his story makes every little manaverism, every decision he makes just feel so much more impactful.

You're just like, oh, like.

I get why he is so distrustful.

I get his fears and anxieties.

I get why he's doing what he's doing, and it's just I don't know, it makes like even though like the little side characters around him who just seem very like, you know, small and not that important way bigger.

You know, like, it's been two months us and I'm horrible what names.

Aeron always gives me names.

But his friend who escaped narconno Narcino five with him right like and we.

First he wrote one.

He'm like, oh, sure, he's like Cassian's friend.

That's cool.

But like, you know, you don't care that deeply about him beyond like any other rebel, But now I'm like, damn, I know what he's been through, and so like losing him in Rogue One hurts way more.

And just in.

General, I think that like the stakes feel.

Even higher knowing what Cassian's gone through, what the Rebellion's gone through, and knowing how Yavin was built.

It just it feels more intense and deeper of a story, which I did not think was possible with how good it already was and how much I already loved Star Wars.

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

I did think that jinn Or so deservedly so, is the main character of that movie, and and Or is kind of the main like i'd say, he's kind of like the main supporting actor, and he's also kind of the leader of this ensemble.

But it's very much a Gin and an ensemble kind of a movie.

And I still would love to see more about what was she doing, like both with Saw and then after her time with Saw.

But I remember when I heard that they were doing this, I was really excited because Rogue One, as much as I loved Jinnerso's character, and thought she was just fantastic and I wanted to see more of her.

Cassian's was probably the one who grabbed me the most, and so much of it is because of that first moment that we really meet him in the movie, where you know he has important information his friend and his co conspirator in the rebellion has just given him, and now the Imperial Stormtroopers are onto them and the only way he can escape is by shooting his friend, and there's such a beauty is the wrong word to for that moment.

But like we've talked about this, it's a lot even more on superhero ethics, Like I love a good story about the good guys fighting the bad guys and it's nice and simple, and Star Wars has always been more than that in terms of, like, you know, redemption stories and people can change and all that, but there's only been still some degree of There are fascists and the rebels, and when the rebels kill the fascists, we cheer, and part of that is because we know the rebels are good guys, and so the fascists will do things like torture people or threaten families or all that kind of stuff, and the good guys would clearly never do any of that.

They are honorable and right and good.

And so this realization of that, one of the essential parts of getting those plans into the hands of R two D two so that Luke Skywalker could blow up the Death Star was Cassian and Or shooting his buddy in the back.

It just changes everything.

And I I remember that was a big part of why I was so excited for and Or.

I felt and Or really paid off on that, and like so much what I loved about and Or was was how well it got into that.

And so I felt like now even more excited to go back to Rogue one to see Cassian through, as you said, to see how did Cassian get here, to see all these other people who we had learned about, like General Drayden and Mon Mathma, who yeah, man, Matha.

We'd obvious learned about a lot of other things, but we got so much of Matha books.

So yeah, I was just I was I did not have the patience or good judgment that you did.

I think I finished them.

I think I took like fifteen minutes between the end of the last episode and starting the movie.

No, No, that's incorrect.

I'm sorry, no I did.

It was a day later.

I think we recorded on it, and I didn't want to let that influence me.

But then I watched it.

But it's pretty damn quick.

I feel like I haven't had a chance to watch a New Hope yet, but I feel like this, this momentum will carry into a New Hope as well, which is just crazy to think about.

I'm sure we'll definitely get to that in a minute, but let's still just start with Rogue one.

So what was it like to sit down and watch Rogue one now that you've seen.

And or Yeah, like I said, it almost felt like not like a different movie, but it had a very different tone to it.

I mean like everything from like Crenis darkness to like just just knowing because you know in the movie when you first see when you first see uh, Rogue one Andrew, it seems very kind of like Dodgy, not very like trustworthy Shees in Rebellion but which is kind.

Of a little like like like a.

Mercenarian and like you don't really fully trust him until he chooses not to kill Galen.

And you're like, damn, like.

Here's a battle hardened like Rebel but you don't really know why.

And then as you get his backstory and the depth of all the things he's gone through, you're like, oh, no, do I get why?

But like, like I like empathize with this man so deeply and like I don't know, it's almost like what I watched it this time, I was in every past iteration like Jin was very much like the main character for me, and she still is the main character.

I don't want to take anything away from Fuc Jones's amazing performance.

Yeah, I definitely like noticed that paid attention to and or a lot more than I think I did, Yeah in previous watchlets, if that makes.

Sense, Like, let me just start again with that scene that I love so much.

I remember him shooting the guy.

I'd have forgotten the look of horror he has on his face when he does it, and like in my head it was always okay, clearly that's like a fellow person in the Rebellion, and I guess his friend.

But I kind of had to fill in some backstory for myself about saying who that guy was and why it was important.

And in Indoor we get backstory, we get like this is this person, you know, we hear about, Hey, this is a person who's with Saul's crew and has now made contact with us.

This is someone who we know, and like, you know, we literally get to watch Cassian going off to that trading post to meet up with him, and to me, all of that just gave it so much more power.

And then seeing that look of kind of like I can't believe I just did that.

For me, that now has so much more power because for me, that moment is now, oh my god, I've become Luthan because through so much of the show, he's trying he he he knows Luthen is right on some level, but he also really doesn't want to believe that, and he wants to think that he's better than Luthen.

And I still think he is.

Like I don't think that one moment equals all the things that Luthen did, but I think that, like you know, the end of and Or where he's actually kind of defending Luthan to the other rebels and where he's like, you guys are all quick to judge him, but look at all the things he did when you weren't willing to put yourself I was on the line.

All of that to me comes out in what he's doing there.

Yeah, and I think that, like, what is that what is his name?

The guy Andre's buddy, Melchie, Melchie, Melchi, I.

Think it's me.

I'm looking up quickly.

I think it's Melchie.

It's gonna go with Melchi.

It is Russ Scott Melchie just mention though, so, like, you.

Know, Melchi's one of those characters that, like I didn't even when I was first watching Andre, like I didn't necessarily expect to see him in the show, and then when I did, I was like, oh, like I remember that guy.

He was, like, you know, he was a side character in A and Or or in I Rogue One, and I remember him in the back of my head.

But the brotherhood they formed and the closeness they formed, and seeing them escape prison together, seeing them fight together, it's just like it it made every Rogue One already was hurting me, Like what Rogue one is is peak Star Wars because it hurts you so much, and you know, I just hope to be hurt by Star Wars.

But my Lord, like it's like his death, like I wasn't expected to like tear up, and I kind of teared up with it those because I was like, he escaped a horrible imperial prison, dedicated his life to the cause, and then gets killed basically like on a suicide mission that gives the galaxy hope.

Again, it's like what level like talk about, like Android's in the spot, why this guy's just in the background.

All I could think about was like neither one of them, like and Or is not getting recognition for any of his DEDs, Like we're seeing him obviously, Like it's purposely like his his rescue my mouth was kept secret.

A lot of his roles are cavery covert, and it like maybe reflect.

Like even more just on like I mean, the Mastery of Star Wars, but like in Rogue one and A and Or, the point being that like, just like in the real world, a lot of the heroes of our world will never know they're actually the real heroes names.

It will just kind of be in the background.

Right, you know.

And that goes throughout all of Rogue one, think all the way back to the first season and Andy Serkus's character who you know, helps lead who I guess and Or convinces him to join this rebellion against the in the prison.

But he's the one who really makes that possible.

And you know, if that doesn't happen, then Andord never gets free, and so all this doesn't happen.

Uh Tific, by the way, is the name of the guy who Cassian meets up with on the trade exchange post.

And secues that forward.

I think one of the other things that Andre had really done.

And again it wasn't like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that the Empire was bad, but it really just allowed me to put it into so many better terms, is having a much deeper understanding of why it is that all these different people are coming together to fight the Empire.

Because in a New Hope, you know, one of the first things the Empire does is have a death Star and blow up a planet, and like, that's a pretty big red line, I.

Think for a lot of people.

And in Star Wars canon it is a lot more people join the rebellion because of that.

And we've seen, like in Clone Wars and then in Rebels and in Bad Match and all that more and more like indications of just how evil the Empire was.

But I felt like in and Or we got to see a whole new side of that.

You know, in terms of all the political machinations, in terms of the propaganda machine, in terms of just the horrific things that happened to Gorman, and just how brutally that was all played out.

And so I found myself like and them watching Rogue one, like realizing, like, yes, I might tear my hair out when General Drayden is like, oh, you know, go attack, go kill Galen urso instead of trying to rescue him, but instead of trying to capture him, kidnap him.

But I get it.

I get why all these people are so dedicated to fighting the Empire in all the different ways.

And speaking of dedication, we have now been joined by Erin.

Erin's so good to see you again.

It's been a little while while an Hia, Yes, hello and welcome.

Jump right in.

We're talking about how did we feel about watching Rogue one after and or mind blowing?

Yeah, how so it's such a different film.

Yeah, Like the film in its originality is already so incredible.

Like I tell everybody it's my favorite Star Wars film just because of I feel like the emotional impact and how different it was compared to so many other Star Wars films.

But like having the context of season one of Andor already had changed the film.

Now season two of and Or, going straight into the film, it's like a whole new story.

You know, you have all this understanding of like what Cassie and has been through and where he comes from.

And I feel like it makes his relationship with Jin a lot more interesting, kind of knowing about Bis and knowing that stuff and knowing where he was at emotion having just been like left.

Yeah, so yeah, I feel like it.

It was a really cool way, a new way to see the film.

Yeah, I totally get that there's a lot there to get into, especially about Cassian and jenn Urso and uh and with Dicks and all of that, but even going beyond that kind of I was just talking about how I felt like it gave me a different picture of the Empire.

Like I always knew they were evil, and I knew they were fascists and bad.

But I'm curious for you, did you feel any different about watching, you know, Crinic and watching all the imperial plans play out Rogue one having seen the beginnings of that.

Nandor, Like, how do I feel about critic.

Critic or the Empire in general?

The Empire in general, they are a much more realistic villainy.

I would say, like the Empire is already scary krenick I already loved him as a villain's see, he's upset about his position.

He fucking hates Tarkan.

Like that's all entertaining.

But I love a sassy villain, I do.

What can I say?

But yeah, I just felt like.

You kind of see this like desperation in critics that I haven't noticed before, because like we're seeing how hard he's fighting for this and how this is like his fucking thing, right, Like this is his thing that nobody else gets to know about, and suddenly it's Tarkan's thing and he freaks the fuck out.

And an Indoor.

I feel like we really saw him fight to to reassert that it's his thing in a way that leads him up so perfectly to that, you know, the way there is all of this like security breakdowns around it, and he he's the one to have to step in and be like, no, the isb fucked this up.

I'm in control now.

And you know, it's the incredible scene of them putting his finger on the head of dedra Uh and talking to her and all that.

Yeah, to me, it's like this is all the things that puts him on the pedestal that makes him so much more pissed when you're right, Tarkan just knocks him right back off of it again because he has just gone through.

It's like, of course he's so pissed at Tarkian because he's just finished having to fight with all the s ISB people who, in his mind came so close to blowing it for him.

Yeah.

Yeah, I also will say that Rogue one, so it's between books that I've read, with the throng books and you know, and Or, it's I'm sorry Rogue one itself.

I always saw chronic casassity, but also like kind of like a little windy baby, not like necessarily a bad way, you know, a little bit of a windy baby.

And I was never really scared of him, like he never he always was, just like you know, he kind of reminded me of similar vibes of Kylo Ren with without any of the fear factor.

And now because of Rogue One, I'm sure God I he miixing them up because of and Er.

I say that again, but now because of and Or, we have.

That fear factor, and like all I can think about is like the finger push on Danger's head and like how he actually can be this menacing figure and really was really important and high up in the food chain.

Like it's easy to forget that because he's kind of pushed aside so much and bullied by by Tarkan.

And Invader Anthron and just everyone.

But uh yeah, I don't know.

It.

Just to me, it feels like.

This gave like, like and Andrew gave me a little more respect for him.

So when I'm watching Rogue one, I'm like, damn, he's one powerful man to just be like gitting smacked around by all these other guys.

Mm hmm, Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

I agree.

I feel like he very much.

When he showed up in Andor, it's like, oh, a new villain, but like we've never heard of him before, so we know he's not going to be important later like name and Maam, and he was fun, he was sassy, like I already said, But like having and Or, especially season two now, it's just like it pooks excuse me, It puts actual real fear behind him and like his power and his actions which is basically what you're saying, Alex.

Yeah, I think it gives him fear and also it reinforces this idea that he is very much the classic bully, because I think part of what we see in Rogue one is that he is he.

You know, we see the side of him of the person who bullies people until he gets put until he feels like he's now at the bottom of the toting pole and he becomes a complete toady.

You know.

He goes to Vader and is like, this is what it should happen, and then it is like it basically is like going to Daddy and be like that mean Tarkan hit me, Daddy, go take care of him.

And I feel like, but we.

Never got to see him just be the bully, Like we got to see it a little bit at the beginning, but seeing him just we talked about the scene with Dedra, but also that scene where he's in Luthen's not He's not in Luthen's museum.

He's at mon Mathma.

Yeah, it's not Manmatha's house.

It's like the gangster who Manamathema's daughter marries his son.

All terrible as names.

I apologize, but like, yeah, that great scene where like my Mathma and Kranack are sparring.

I just seeing that scene made me so much more satisfied watching you know, Tark and knock him down off that pedestal.

Being able to see so like the meetings that were being had between Man Mathma and Baille or Ghana, like just kind of seeing you know, the breakdowns that were happening, the intense arguments that were happening in and Or kind of like makes it make more sense when like the rebel alliance is suddenly just like we can't fight, We're not gonna do anything.

We're just gonna like let the empire win, low key, and then like an act of rebellion within the rebellion has to happen.

And at the time, like adderal Radish like going off and doing his own thing just seemed like, oh, that's part for the course, this is the rebellion.

But then and Or we saw that like if you go up and do your own thing, you're like court martialed and you're like really held down to like these specific these laws and orders that they put together.

And so it makes like all of these people.

Going rogue way cooler and way more like like, damn, we're really just kind of like risking at all because they believe in this cause so deeply, knowing full well that if they do survive, they're in for like a world of how in trouble if they're not fully kicked out of the rebellion when they get back right, which is something that just wasn't that storyline wasn't there at all until and Or was made.

Yeah, I agree, that's a really good point, is like, of course rebel's rebelling is not surprising.

It's just like, yeah, of course, like that's what you gotta do sometimes to get around the system.

But like seeing just.

How structured the rebel alliance was and also how fractured it was at the same time, and seeing so many different uh I mean, I'm gonna use the same word again, see so many different factions and just how they fight within each other, like that one episode don't remember the planet, but where Andor was stuck just in the middle of a rebellion who decided to fight each other and have a civil war, and it's like, y'all have the same common goal, but you still can't agree enough to not kill each other.

That was on Yavin four.

Amusingly enough, thank you, there's two groups of stealing ships and stuff like that.

Yeah, I'm truly with you because to me, it's it's right, it's fractured, it's structured, and it's fragile.

You know.

I think I love Rogue one.

But I think one part that never really rang that, that one part that never really rang true for me was that scene where you know, Jin is saying we need to go after this, and some of the other senators are saying like, we can't do this, and and some of them were saying, like, the Rebel Alliance is finished.

You know, we're not gonna we have to break apart.

And part of me is like, I know that that doesn't happen.

I know that in just a couple of days you blow up the Death Star.

I feel like, seeing how hard it was to get all those people to and or to Yavin, seeing how hard it was to get all those people to Yavin, being all the things that had to go into it, I know it's obviously not gonna happen.

It makes that scene where they're like, maybe we should all just go our separate ways and give up that much more powerful.

So much more powerful.

I agree, Yeah, let's talk about the bis of it all, because there's definitely been some online discourse, including a lot of folks being like, oh, this proves that Cassian and Gin were never really romantic with each other, or this proves that like Cassian's actually super shady for like falling for for Gin when he had BIS.

What's your guys taking all this?

But he didn't fall for Gin?

I have so much to say.

Do you want to go Foray?

I like, when I saw this movie, I was a teenager, right, so, like, obviously I want there to be a love story, and I think that there was a bit of romance between the two of them, But I think in that ending scene, the fact that we saw them embrace rather than like kiss, it just shows that they had a deeper connection just like as people, and they maybe they did have a love for each other just as people, whether or not if they had survived, maybe that could have been romantic.

Maybe they were just friends.

But I kind of like this beautiful space we get where these two people they meet each other and there's something magnetic between them, yep, regardless of in what way, and we don't get to see how it plays out, and it's very interesting.

I like that people, well maybe not all people.

Definitely some people are like they were.

Definitely fucking like they loved each other.

But I like that.

A lot of fans have been like, it's kind of nice to leave it open ended that they ended their relationship in their lives as friends, yea, and as comrades is really beautiful.

That being said, it's also very valid of and Or after being dumped to be like, damn, she's pretty.

I kind of like her, Like I've been there before, you know, like when you get out of relationships, there's a little confusion of like, shit, am I just gonna like be by myself?

Am I gonna try something else?

And then you have a few talking stages that are like uncomfortable.

But this is Star Wars and this is Rebellion, so we don't got time for that shit.

We just got time to chat, get a little romance, put a lot of friendship, and then embrace and be turned into dust.

Wow that ended darkly, But I agree with you totally.

Alex want to hear you jump in.

I'll just sat ad.

This isn't like a rebound he had like a day after Bicks left him.

This is a year later as well.

So just kind of further I have some further commentary what you said, Yeah, but just just to add that one edition.

Ale to help support it.

I kind of want to agree with Aaron too, Like, first of all, he has no idea of that he has a kid.

I know, we've discussed the validity of all that before.

We don't get into it, but there's an over the kid exists either way, whether it is not.

And like Biggs left them.

And like Aaron' said, you know, like you know, you know, my last long term relationship ended a year ago, and I've started going on dates again, and like I don't think there's anything wrong with that, Like it's you know, it's been a long time, and so I think that Andor's totally legit for like you know, trying like just it's not even he's like courting her or like anything.

It's just like, oh, Chin's pretty.

I like her spunk, I like who she is.

Like there's some vibe, sure, but like we talked about, like there's no kiss, there's.

No definitive anything.

They died, like Aaron said, as comrades and arms, which is really beautiful.

And like I also think that.

In general, like lines between like you know, like like if you love someone like clearly like Android and like loving Jin in like it's just this unique way like those lines are not as concrete as we think.

So you know, they could be friends, comrades, he could have some romantic feeling torture, Like those lines are very easily I don't I think that in society we try and say like he has to either be interested or romantically or they have to be strictly photonic friends.

There's nothing in between, and that's just not how it is.

And so I feel like, yeah, there's some in between vibes going on there, and that's just how it is.

And I don't thin there's anything wrong with that, I think, and or it is a very justified individual.

Plus he's about to die.

What the man seeks some comfort?

Come on, y'all.

Yeah, And I want to say I was just gonna say one thing that I think is very like interesting and beautiful about the story of Cassian and Jin and the way they come into each other's lives is it was a fucking shock for both of them.

Yeah, neither of them were expecting to meet this person.

I'm sure he's heartbroken about bis he's like in his head, and then he's like, oh, fuck, we got to rescue this girl.

She's got information that we need.

And then it just kind of goes from there.

And jin's like in prison in a work camp, not expecting to be picked up, and suddenly there's this guy who's like really frustrating and kind of a dick, but also kind of hot, but also like kind of like what he's saying, but you don't really want to get like mixed by the empire, so it's like hard.

And I just I liked that they were both a surprise to each other and we got to see them interact in that way where it's like, no, it's not like, oh I love you, we're both like looking for romantic connection.

It's just like no, we're trying to fucking survive amidst a fascistime regime, and then we surprise each other with our connection.

Yeah, and it's magnetic.

Whether it's friendship, whether it's something else, it's a connection that surprises the both of them.

And I think that they I think the actors pulled it off beautifully.

Having there be no and or before the movie, I think it all still meshes together really well.

Yeah, I think I'm with all of you there.

And just from my own kind of background on this, I remember that when I watched the movie for the first time, it was really in like I mean, we're still in obviously, like superhero movies are coming out all the time, but this was back when I was trying to watch every single Supermiero superhero movie that came out, and a lot of other things that were like that.

And I remember having a lot of discussions, in part on my Superherothics podcast but also just with friends about how frustrating it was to have these movies where it seemed like there was a little romance jammed in for no reason whatsoever, and then often it felt kind of almost misogynistic in terms of like, oh, hey, the only reason this female character is there is, you know, so that our main male character can have a love interest, or you know, she doesn't get to do anything else, or you know, the you hear marketing people talk about like, well, we want, you know, women to go to see this, well, so we need to have a romantic love interest, and that's you know kind of you know, by no means, like what has to happen to get peal of any.

Gender to go.

So when I watched it and I didn't kiss, I was really I really was happy about that, and I kind of locked.

In on their friends.

It is a friendship thing.

They have respect for each other colleagues, and then that's powerful and important, but.

It doesn't have to be romantic.

So so yeah, so I was kind of really locked in on that idea, and then I started talking others on here, especially Danielle written in the Star Wars has been our guest a number of times.

She really loved She's fantastic.

She's really into the romance aspect between the two characters, and she pointed out in a number of things that I think can point to that, and in the novelization of the movie, apparently that is much the romance is much more highlighted, and so I want to kind of honor that.

But I think here, here's the thing is that even.

If we do say that, yes, he is very much a romance for all the Yeah, with all that kind of background, I'm just coming around to where you guys are of Yeah, to me, it does not take away from what he has with Bicks in any way, shape or form.

It was a year ago and people can have many loves over the course of.

Their life, but also just to me, it makes me think.

Kind of the Hunger Games of back when you know the first book Catnus is very much like I'm with Gail.

Gail and I are going to grow up and become like partners in some way.

Probably she goes into the Hunger Games arena and she has a moment of wondering, like when she does steel herself start to actually fall for Peta and that maybe it's not just a game, uh to get sponsorship.

She has a moment of like, am I being unfaithful to Gale and then realizes like, no, I'm never gonna see Gale again.

I'm gonna die here, So maybe it's okay to just have this moment.

Plus, you know those moments you guys have like when you're starting Maybe I don't know if you guys have had this, but like you and a friend, you're starting to realize like you might have feelings for each other.

Maybe you've like kissed a couple of times.

You're trying to figure out like what's going on with us, and you want to like sit down and like think to yourself, like do I like this person?

Romantically.

Do I like them sexually?

Do I like them platonically?

How do I feel about this person?

I don't know.

I need to figure that out, because not everyone knows it him automatically.

Cassian and Gin never really get time to stop and figure that out.

So them having yeah, some mixture of friendship and attraction and oh my god, we're both gonna die and we need human comfort and wow, they're really cute and wow, I was totally in love with this other person who left me.

Like that's a big jumble of thoughts and emotions and I'm totally okay if Cassian hasn't figured that out and never does figure that out because they're about to die and yeah.

Yeah, yeah it is.

It's interesting, like the urgency timeline that was put on their story and how much it changes.

Then.

Yes, now, Alex, I know you need to go into a minute or two.

But there was another point you wanted to bring up about kind of the way the show is being marketed on Disney Plus.

Right, Yes, So I just wanted to point out that prior to and or being released at least, I don't know.

I don't think it was even before season one.

Afterge season two came out, they changed the imagery.

So if you go on Disney Plus now, instead of it being a photo of you know, the class photo of Gin with the Death Star behind try, that was the promotional image for the movie ever since it came out, you know, a decade ago.

Most now it is Cassi in front and center, with Jin still in the picture but like very small off the side behind him.

And well, I understand that and Or is the story with the Star Wars story of the year.

For sure, and he's kind of like like it's like him and Patri Pascal or like the two like golden golden boys of Star Wars right now.

Yeah, and we love them.

I love them, but along with Oscar Isaac.

Along with Oscar, along with Oskar.

But I would saying like this year, those two were like really kind of like holding it down because of Mando and Or.

But the point is.

It just felt like very porderline, if not blatantly mesagonistic and kind of just like pushing Jin to the side literally in the image.

Like again, I understand that Andor is really important, and like I'm so happy that he's getting more of a spotlight, but he has his own show, like let him be the front page of his show.

Why does you also need to be like the lead image for Rogue one when Jin is very much the main character.

That just feels like, understand, you're trying to capitalize on the success of and Ord to get more people to watch Rogue one, but like, come on, y'all, like just put put him to the side.

Put him to the side.

You can still see him, but we've in front center.

It's her movie.

Yeah, it feels kind of disrespectful.

Honestly, it's like, I don't I mean, I guess had the sequels come out, Force Awakens had come out when we got Rogue one, right.

Yes, yeah, Force Awakens, then Rogue one, then Episode eight.

Okay, so we had already had a female centered Star Wars story, but that was still very new, right, And to have a standalone film that tells such an important story at this timeline, we've never gotten to interact with in this way.

We've never gotten to interact with the little guys, you know, quote quote, And for it to be her story I think was so important and like as a young girl, I think I've spoken on this podcast a little bit about like having some like animosity towards Ray because of some internalized misogynism and like feeling like, unless she's a girl, why she got to be front and center.

I never felt that way about Jen Interesting.

I felt her story was so powerful and so deep and so important.

Yeah, that it's like that never occurred to me in my clouded state of being young and believing everything the church told me.

No, I hear that.

I think that's really important.

And you've talked to Know before about kind of the feelings with Ray and how that's changed.

And but I know you've also talked about about how much you love jin orso from the beginning, and I think that is super powerful.

And I think it was like, yes, we also have Ray and we're going to get even more movies with her, which is great.

And we had a number of other strong female characters since then, in things like The Acolyte and in but we certainly don't have enough by any means, and I don't.

Yeah, it feels like there's been definitely a push that like and Or is now so popular that people want to make Rogue one kind of his movie, And you're right, it isn't.

He's an important character.

So all the other people that they kind of like pick Up along the way.

It's very much a Muppet Show kind of a movie, you know, the Muppet movie, like pick Up.

All these people to form the the anti Empire Rainbow connection.

An actual I have never made my life Star Wars rid of the Muppets, but that is so spot on, Matthew, It's incredible.

I'm it's what I'm here for, Tiper waitress, but try try the deal.

But I have not poked my head into this particular corner of social media, and I'm probably happy I haven't.

But I do know that there's been a lot of this kind of anti anti genner So pro Bix sentiment and that some of it's been spurred on by as I understand it again of hearing SMOs the second their hand.

Tony Gilroy has had some things to say about Rogue one and how and or is kind of like more what he wanted to tell and being kind of critical and maybe that like he would have wanted to have Bix in Rogue one and and less of Jinner So and I don't again, I think he comments are being way overblown by this group that's like very much anti gin pro Bics for reasons I don't really quite understand, and I just.

I don't know.

I don't think there's any need to put to me.

Watch and Or was so good for so many reasons, but in part because of Rogue One was so good, and now watching and Or it makes Rogue one better.

And to me, the idea that either then it has to take away from the other, or that we have to say one is better than the other unless the other is shit, Like, I just see no reason for it.

Yeah, I agree.

I think those two stories, although they were written in such different times, I think they still flow together beautifully and they're very realistic and there's really no need to choose sides.

Yeah, Like I can understand how people get that way, you know, Like I'm sure I was kind of that way when I was younger about like no, this is my stand, you know, like whatever.

But just like in real life, you can have a beautiful relationship that's and everyone is rooting for you, and at the end of the day, it doesn't work between the two of you, and that's okay too.

And there's nothing wrong with finding somebody else, And there's nothing wrong with finding a crush that you're not going to pursue things with but just somebody just spark that and make you like remind you of like, oh, like love isn't all bad, It's not all just Paine Like.

You can have platonic love, you can have romantic love.

You can have somewhere in between and still be like it's healthy and it's not the center of their story.

Emo is not the only form of music out there, people.

You can have a panic at the disco and still fall in love with someone and it'd be good.

Yeah.

Now that are completely genre jumped into like eight different directions.

It is about time to wrap up any last things either you want to say for you bounce.

No, I'm just excited to hopefully watch a new Hope soon to see how that movie changed as well, because if ro One changed this bunch, if you can you Hope also it's changed.

Yeah, agreed, I missed the first half of this convo, but I just want to say how much I love body Brook.

He is a king.

He is our skinny, nervous icon, our anxiety icon.

I had a big old crush on that guy.

When that came out, I was like, ooh, he's always sweaty and uncomfortable.

Something about this speaks to me.

Yeah, I just loved him as a character and how he was just you know, cause like he was an imperial pilot, right and then just like never really fucked with the empire, but you know that was the job, so you just go with it.

And then seeing how quickly someone who's so deeply embedded is like, yeah, no, fuck this, I'm on the other side for sure, Like this is the way I'm already feeling.

It's just there was no opportunity to do that, or there was no other people feeling the same way that I felt that I could speak up, And so I really love that story we get from him from being you know, imperial pilot being captured, being literally tortured by Saw and his people, like the one of the most horrifying things, like a bug slug thing infecting your brain sounds fucking horrifying.

And he still came out of that with enough of his conscious solidified and together that he was like able to make the decision to continue with the rebelly.

Yeah, I really love him as a character.

And then he names them as rogue cheer it.

Oh, don't even get me on cheeriot.

Carry Yeah, I cheer it in Bays.

I'm going to go to my grave that they are they are romantic, part like them romantic romantic like that that I will not find any question on Alex for you.

That's comments.

No.

I thought about it and I was like, not the brain mm hmm.

Yep.

It's been a it's been a long day.

But I'm just happy to have talked about Star War to the all again.

It's been it's been a few weeks and it always Brighton is my week and chat Star Wars though, and and yeah.

It's been a little while.

But now that we are, now that like I've actually you know, my partner has given birth and and we have a little padawan in the house.

I'm sure there's no more stresses on my schedule.

Everything's gonna be just fine.

So don't worry.

In the future when Aaron and I have to run the podcast by ourselves, Matthew will leave the child to be on the mic.

You know, who's the child?

Does that mean?

No?

No, I have an actual literal child.

Oh, your new child.

Yes, I was making a joke.

Who's the child?

Yeah, no, tell you the six day old child.

Tell your boyfriend.

I'm cutting off the child support payments.

You're on your own now, kid.

I wish the podcast can understand the look on Aaron's face.

It's it's on YouTube.

It's great.

I'm like, I have my tubes removed for a reason.

Guys.

Yeah, I am very happy with the result.

And you know, I did my best to be there and so port Mary and everything I could.

And god, it did not look like a good process.

You know.

Proud of you, proud of her, out of everyone.

So she we came through it.

Okay, we're doing okay, So all right, much love everybody.

Thanks.

We'll probably be on a two week once there a two week schedule for a while as we kind of settle back in.

We'll see where go.

Thanks so much for listening.

Check out all the other cool things that my podcasters are doing, and live long.

And prosper, stay classy.

Scare of.

Be careful not to choke on your aspirations.

Excellent choice in the panic.

It haven't you been listening to a lot of Bob Dylan.

So when you said that, I heard be careful not to touch the wall as a brand new code of paint.

I had to see you looking like a saying very different but Eody, Oh, my

God, silly silly silly Peace,